1 dash stygius is painful indeed
#h1-high-heat-strategies
honest kernel
mossy zinc
Amir's answer when asked about Zag Sword once was "What do you expect for 5 Titan Blood?"
bronze viper
LOL
honest kernel
bright mango
Lmao
mossy zinc
That's what the Zag Aspects are, pretty much.
But if that's the rationale, we should be given Titan Blood for using Gilgamesh.
It shouldn't cost us.
bright mango
truth
long flax
Do you consider Dio with Demeter or Zeus better? Beo/Hera bow build
mossy zinc
Scintillating Feast for both.
Ice Wine adds a delay to Hera and Beowulf's Cast.
On any other aspects, you'd want Ice Wine over Scintillating Feast.
long flax
Got it. Thanks!
jaunty falcon
Is.... is shackle hera a thing?
Base cast is pretty bad, I’m pretty sure shackle zag bow is though
sullen minnow
Effectively an ordinary aphro cast of damage attached to an attack output equivalent to twin attack with no range reduction?
I might try shackle zag tbh
40 bow is frustrating me, and I refuse to take the low road with Rama. I’ll do Rama after I get it done with something else
jaunty falcon
For Hera you want to Pom the cast to level 5 at least, and that is always more damage than a shackled base cast
long flax
What about a Rama shackle?
bright mango
It’s very good
bright mango
40 bow is frustrating me, and I refuse to take the low road with Rama. I’ll do R...
Why do you want to use shackle at 40?
daring hedge
40 bow is frustrating me, and I refuse to take the low road with Rama. I’ll do R...
i guess rama is the low road now huh 😔
mossy zinc
Rama isn't the low road at 40. 40 is the low road for Rama. 
solar maple
not sure if you saw the discussion about the chinese high heat scene on the speedrunning discord, but there aren't really any rama players over there
according to lovcrimson
daring hedge
oh yeah i think i saw that, it's mostly beo and hestia right
sullen minnow
rama is akin to cheating for me lol
solar maple
I do think zeus is very good
daring hedge
i wonder if chinese players on average use m+kb over controller
sullen minnow
i know i can do it with rama, but i also know rama will be carrying me too
daring hedge
if that's the case it definitely makes sense
sullen minnow
I want this to be a good challenge for me
solar maple
I sort of want to do high heat hera to keep on with my cast nonsense, but I'm so bad at bow
sullen minnow
Why do you want to use shackle at 40?
To cheat heat with RI2 and AP2, same reason as any other. just noodling an idea. I'm trying to resist cheating with shackle too but its alluring lol
daring hedge
I sort of want to do high heat hera to keep on with my cast nonsense, but I'm so...
think of it as charged shot beo ez
sullen minnow
fair
sullen minnow
not free, never free
daring hedge
and while rama can handle AP2, it still kind of hates it actually. good hammers smooth out rama runs to a big degree
sullen minnow
i just feel a lot less injured with the right weapon and shackle combo. Missing half a mirror hurts less when you only focus around one attack stat
daring hedge
like, i wouldn't say zag bow is going to give you more of a "challenge" compared to rama. just potentially more limiting in what you do the whole time
solar maple
I'm curious what pacts you get to take off by taking RI2 AP2?
sullen minnow
its just that or I'm looking down the barrel of EM4 which I'm not comfy enough with yet or HL5 LC4 FO2 which is its own bear
whatever 9 heat suits, usually a stack of FO or take away some HL or LC for the trade
daring hedge
@ wobbles doing 45 with DDs
solar maple
usually
daring hedge
lol
solar maple
bright almost cleared 50 beo with LC4 DDs LOL
daring hedge
what the heck
sullen minnow
like, i wouldn't say zag bow is going to give you more of a "challenge" compared...
I know I'm being a hipster about it. I just also know that Rama will absolutely see me through 40 in the same way Hestia will and did. And for bow in particular i want to challenge myself to get my first one done without that aid. Rama will for sure be the 2nd bow i try 40 with lol
daring hedge
i suppose i could have done that for my sub 12 50 heat considering i lost a single SD during dad fight
solar maple
tbh I've thought about running like DDS + LC3
sullen minnow
yeah I've tried turning down to LC2 and going back to DDs
with some of what i get back from RI2 AP2
but I've gone back and forth on a lot of different heat builds at this point
Eh, i just need to keep working
solar maple
if you are taking off HL for RI that will pretty much never be worth it
sullen minnow
Complaints solve nothing
sullen minnow
if you are taking off HL for RI that will pretty much never be worth it
Ok, that's valuable to hear. Thank you
mossy zinc
@daring hedge care to verify something for me?
Take any requirement for Static Discharge. Fill all Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash slots with whatever you want. Then take any boons from Lord Zeus you come across, but do not take Static Discharge.
Hypothesis 1: Static Discharge will be offered every single time.
Hypothesis 2: Static Discharge will be offered 90% of the time, but there's a 10% chance for an exchange to be offered instead.
Hypothesis 3: Similar to hypothesis 2, Static Discharge will be offered 90% of the time with a 10% for an exchange instead, AND if an exchange is offered, there's a 50% chance for Static Discharge to be offered in another slot.
Hypothesis 4: Static Discharge will be offered 50% of the time.
I think either hypothesis 1 or 2 is true for all the tier 2 status curse boons (i.e., Static Discharge, Hunter's Mark, Blinding Flash, Razor Shoals).
solar maple
you get around the same effective hp with HL0 RI2 as HL5 RI0, and a way better build with the latter
sullen minnow
fair
solar maple
- 50 hp from thick skin, and dark forsght is also a ton of hp over a run
sullen minnow
I also find myself wanting to get away from HL in particular because i want to improve my superdad fight and maybe look at that as an avenue
and I've been made to understand that HL5 + EM4 = bad day
solar maple
wait are you doing em4 RI2 AP2 at 40?
sullen minnow
No no
solar maple
those are like every single pact I say to avoid lol
sullen minnow
I've gone through quite an extensive blend of AP and non-AP focused heat maps at this point
trying on different things
I'm just speaking in general. Being able to hack EM4 seems like a roadblock i should think hard about overcoming for 40, and I've seen it mentioned a fair few times that HL5 makes that very very dicey
Only reason i ask
mossy zinc
HL5 EM4 is fine.
EM4 FO2 is where things get spicy.
Avoiding damage in EM4 FO2 is really really hard.
sullen minnow
Yeah i wasn't even going to ask about EM4 FO2 lol
mossy zinc
On top of still requiring you to do high DPS if you have TD.
sullen minnow
I'm crazy, but I'm not stupid
daring hedge
<@!164508146746785792> care to verify something for me?
Take any requirement fo...
i can't test right now but yeah i would guess something like 1/2 would be about right
mossy zinc
Well, EM4 FO2 is the one you want to practice for high heats if you want to get into like 50+ eventually.
solar maple
even though it may not seem like it, AP2 makes the em4 fight much harder
sullen minnow
I can see that
solar maple
probably more so than fo2 imo
sullen minnow
EM4 is a big DPS check increase
daring hedge
RI0 dark foresight goes a very long way towards making it not hurt as bad really
solar maple
exactly
daring hedge
AP2 EM4 i mean
mossy zinc
Yeah, because your build is wack. But you could in theory have a wack build with AP0 lol. But FO2 will be FO2 regardless of your build.
solar maple
FO2 and HL "obviously" make it harder, but RI2 and AP2 ruining your build is probably even bigger
mossy zinc
For a practice save, you'd just take whatever build you want and do EM4 FO2.
solar maple
aside from maybe like hestia or something
solemn pulsar
Static discharge does have some form of priority yes
mossy zinc
With maybe like CP2 or something.
solemn pulsar
Most of the status curse t2s do I think
solar maple
I think it is a mix of 3 and 4
50% of being priority
then still can be offered in others
solemn pulsar
The mixture of 3/4 depends on how the math shakes out I think
solar maple
statuses have a 50% chance of being added to the priority (core) pool iirc
mossy zinc
I don't think 4 is correct when you have your Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash slots filled.
daring hedge
i guess for it to reach the point of being offered every single time you'd need pretty much all other zeus aux boons
solar maple
"ZeusLightningDebuff =
{
PriorityChance = 0.5,"
solemn pulsar
Well each boon has a 10% replacement chance right? Except if you have a Zeus core
.5 priority would give it a 1/8 chance to not be offered then
Given full pool and no replacements
Sorry full cores
Unless that .5 is not per boon
And is per boon screen
solemn pulsar
So then just 50% chance to see it basically?
If something is priority it will always appear right? At least one priority always shows up
On first boon screen prerolls
mossy zinc
That 50% m very sure is only before you have Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash filled. When I have all four filled and at least one of them is from Lord Zeus, I see Static Discharge literally every time.
solar maple
I'll look through the boon selection code in lua
mossy zinc
Well each boon has a 10% replacement chance right? Except if you have a Zeus cor...
There's no 10% chance for an exchange from Lord Zeus if you already have at least one out of Attack, Special, Cast, or Dash from him? That sounds familiar, but I must have forgotten about that.
And yeah, it's 10% for an exchange on the boon screen. If that roll fails, you get one out of ASCD that's still open.
bright mango
To cheat heat with RI2 and AP2, same reason as any other. just noodling an idea....
That’s a really bad idea
solemn pulsar
There's no 10% chance for an exchange from Lord Zeus if you already have at leas...
Ananke maxed out Zeus the other day and was getting 2 replacement offers despite having a core boon in Styx
It can happen
bright mango
Also I literally cannot take DD’s now bcs of how unga bunga I play
mossy zinc
Yeah, that happens when he has nothing else to offer anymore.
But that's different from the 10% chance for an exchange.
bright mango
I don’t care about taking damage so I end up using up a DD in tartarus at like 20-30 heat
mossy zinc
Pretty sure I lost a DD vs Furies pretty often when I was speedrunning 32 earlier today.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
eager vortex
does upgraded rarity means higher chances of getting duo boons too ?
mossy zinc
Yes. +10% chance.
sullen minnow
That’s a really bad idea<:dusa:522248771409543188>
I'm full of those. Stick around, i'll have a few more before long 
edgy arrow
ooh a bad idea
i love those
RI2 AP2 40?
i laugh at other people when they suggest this, but if you’re not doing rama mom pom start hera might be legit
daring hedge
the wording of that sentence threw me off so bad because i read "rama mom pom" as its own thing
cursed
edgy arrow
yeah rama mom pom sounds great
i read Lili’s guide and he explained how the damage is really bad, so a cast build makes sense
daring hedge
lmao
halcyon flame
yeah a cast build honestly really seems like the way to go for rama
probably crystal beam
halcyon flame
if you can't get a cast build going just try to get zeus special
actually no pos special is better because you can get sea storm 
mossy zinc
Tempest Flourish is better because it pushes your enemies away.
halcyon flame
could arty special work because of crits?
halcyon flame
but beeg numbers
daring hedge
15!
mossy zinc
Tailesque said it's 15.
Might be a good build after all.
@daring hedge try it, let us know how it went.
Inb4 61 Heat unseeded clear.
"It actually worked."
halcyon flame
should be easy td3
eager vortex
just completed my second 40 heat
tried with rama and failed utterly
but chiron worked, as usual
halcyon flame
heart rend moment
eager vortex
since there is a heated discussion in builds and combat I'ma ask here
concentrated knuckle or rolling knuckle ?
eager vortex
demeter
halcyon flame
third option?
eager vortex
explosive upper 
halcyon flame
explosive upper on demeter and you're seriously considering passing it up?
eager vortex
but it's dash-upper
halcyon flame
explosive is stupid strong on dem
eager vortex
dash-upper is annoying to pull
halcyon flame
dash upper does more damage anyways
eager vortex
okay I'll give it a try
halcyon flame
like really, base dash upper on demeter actually does more damage than normal upper
eager vortex
well I learn something new daily
edgy arrow
either way explosive’s really good
eager vortex
picking it
halcyon flame
higher base damage or not explosive is definitely the best choice here
daring hedge
explosive upper is basically tied with breaching cross for dem fists' best hammer
halcyon flame
explosive upper and breaching are s tier picks
of course, if explosive is a no-show i just opt for kinetic launcher, it's fun to use
bright mango
Also comes out quicker
Rebind your special to trigger @eager vortex
Helps with dash uppering
eager vortex
my special is on rmb
mossy zinc
dash-upper is annoying to pull
Dash-Upper is the only Upper you should be using.
eager vortex
and yea it's fine
mossy zinc
There are a few niche uses for it.
halcyon flame
not sure about charged upper though, haven't tried it actually
edgy arrow
yeah kinetic launcher good as well
idk if this is controversial but i actually prefer it for ME
mossy zinc
m currently undecided if Breaching Cross, Explosive Upper, or Kinetic Launcher is the best hammer for Demeter Aspect.
halcyon flame
kinetic can powershot which is really nice
mossy zinc
They're all extremely good.
bright mango
Watch anankes runs and see how he weaves dash uppers with his attacks
mossy zinc
The powershot doesn't really though tbh.
edgy arrow
kinetic launcher min charge procs really fast, so it’s good for activating ME before you get dash
mossy zinc
Wow, the Queen of Malphon is right here, and you tell them to watch somebody else.
bright mango
The powershot doesn't really though tbh.
I just prefer it for instant and somewhat ranged special
mossy zinc
How insolent.
bright mango
Helped a lot against em4
halcyon flame
kinetic launcher has little to no lag from what i've heard from other people
you can just tap it and straight back to punching
bright mango
you can just tap it and straight back to punching
That’s what I loved about it
Instant special
edgy arrow
yeah charging it seems like a waste most of the time
i don’t really know how to play malphon so i could be wrong about that, but i generally avoid it
halcyon flame
i tend to charge it anyways because haha bow muscle memory
mossy zinc
The one thing I don't like about Kinetic Launcher: Master Chaos's "each time you Special, get hit for x" will damage you if you do a Dash-Special.
That doesn't normally happen when you do a Dash-Upper.
halcyon flame
though i could likely be better off not charging kinetic launcher
halcyon flame
it's really weird how dash-upper doesn't proc flayed
edgy arrow
idk not being damaged by chaos doesn’t sound like a plus to me
being on 1hp due to poor life choices is half the fun of the game
daring hedge
if you don't get constant funny chaos noises on lucifer attack are you truly even living
wintry berry
I consider having 1hp still alive
mossy zinc
I answered correctly because he used the wrong name.
It's not the Aspect of Lucifer.
It's the Aspect of Garbage.
eager vortex
just realized if you switch to another keepsake then switch back to your previous god keepsake it gives you that god again next time
or just coincidence
iunno
eager vortex
yea I failed to explain
edgy arrow
you can only used each keepsake once
eager vortex
while in the keepsake screen
you can click on another then click back on the previous one
eager vortex
coincidence then ?
daring hedge
yeah
eager vortex
okay
unique zephyr
aspect of lucifer more like aspect of lose-ifer
Funny thing is I’ve seen a site called the gamer rank that as the best weapon in the game
mossy zinc
I could re-equip the Eternal Rose in every biome.
eager vortex
unique zephyr
They were considering the non secret aspects as one thing and the secret as another
edgy arrow
Funny thing is I’ve seen a site called the gamer rank that as the best weapon in...
ah yes, dodgy tier lists
lmao
edgy arrow
rip GY
daring hedge
Rama is second worst
LOL
unique zephyr
Rama being second worst is LOL
edgy arrow
they must have read Lili’s guide
unique zephyr
unique zephyr
"it's so slow"
Yup
eager vortex
they misspelled gy lol
in the first sentence
so I'ma ignore it
they called it rama instead
daring hedge
"Every Weapon In Hades, Ranked" sir you've listed 13 weapons
unique zephyr
they misspelled gy lol
I only noticed that when you said it LMAO
mossy zinc
"The pro tip here is to try them out, but don’t rely on [the Twin Fists]."
Well, I guess they do get paid to play the game, and we don't. 
eager vortex
well game journalism websites are not to be taken seriously
edgy arrow
that first sentence is something to unpack already lmao
“While the Spear itself is one of the stronger weapons in the game, the Aspect of Rama requires a massive amount of effort to make work”
mossy zinc
Don't call it journalism. That's mean to journalists.
unique zephyr
Gilga being the best fist aspect is lol
eager vortex
aspect of rama is spear aspect now
edgy arrow
also spear is strong?
it’s fine just ignore GY, hades and zag
did they only play flurry jab achilles or something
mossy zinc
"Anyway, the best Boon one can get allows the player to launch ahead with their special. It keeps the area effect while adding range to it almost like a Dragoon’s Jump attack from the Final Fantasy series."
daring hedge
the shield's section got copy pasted into the "eternal spear" section
daring hedge
didn't get an editing pass to say the least
mossy zinc
4/13 just doesn't exist.
daring hedge
4/13: nothing. just nothing
mossy zinc
"It’ll"
Yeah, definitely no editing happened here.
eager vortex
are they getting paid for these articles
wintry berry
As much as I like Lucy aspect, I find it top 1 funny
mossy zinc
"stacking Status Ailments like Chill or Rupture"
edgy arrow
without even getting into the actual rankings
this is the problem with this kind of article in general tho
with most journalism, you have to at least pretend to have done research
daring hedge
it isn't even every weapon, like it's just some weird bot generated quips about weapon types and then the hidden aspects
mossy zinc
"What really makes this weapon sing is a Daedalus Hammer Boon that grants the weapon infinite ammo. If one can find that plus a chill effect Boon via Demeter, this thing is unstoppable. So there’s a lot of luck involved in order to make this the best"
edgy arrow
with this you can just make up random crap
daring hedge
but yeah it's not like this was meant to be even close to a quality read i guess
edgy arrow
on topic is off topic now oh no
daring hedge
since you want to proc it immediately
eager vortex
makes sense
daring hedge
but impending is great
eager vortex
I have ME
edgy arrow
obviously impending is better
eager vortex
okay thanks
edgy arrow
yeah it won’t really do anything if you already have the duo
unique zephyr
What if the reason Ares is mediocre is because ME is so good
So people wouldn’t always just force Ares lol
eager vortex
nice, 2nd roll gave me impending
edgy arrow
wym ares is great he’s got amazing boons like checks notes “press call to lose your attack” and “deactivate boiling blood for no reason”
eager vortex
I think I may have a great ME build atm
edgy arrow
nice
daring hedge
i know museus likes vanilla slicing shot but i just do not see it
feels terrible without hunting blades
edgy arrow
yeah
mossy zinc
i know museus likes vanilla slicing shot but i just do not see it
I think it's really good for Stygius's Cast > Dash-Strike x2 > repeat combo.
halcyon flame
how do i effectively use flurry jab on achilles?
do i just use special at the end of each attack sequence or just attack nonstop
mossy zinc
solar maple
do note that you want to special a bit more with arty attack than others like zeus attack
halcyon flame
is the damage boost from achilles global?
mossy zinc
Attack and Cast.
bright mango
Yeah with zeus attack on achilles I turn my brain off and go brrr
halcyon flame
lightning strike flurry jab + tidal dash
on achilles, no less
this really do be bootleg eris
bright mango
I’m pretty sure artemis attack is better with hunters mark and stuff, not lighting go brrrrr
edgy arrow
that would make sense
a side benefit of arty as well is that with tidal dash you qualify for mirage shot
bright mango
If you get splitting early, then zeus tears
edgy arrow
so you can pivot to a cast build of stuff goes right
bright mango
But that’s quite hard to do
edgy arrow
for sure
getting a mid tartarus zeus and having to choose between jolted and storm lightning is hard
on the one hand, early storm means splitting could be real
on the other, storm lightning is a garbage boon and jolted is necessary
daring hedge
arctic blast? no, not pommable. you live with your rarity. storm lightning? you didn't want this to clog your poms but imagine MORE BOUNCES
that will never occur
solar maple
the current meta for achilles on speedruns is splash dash start
edgy arrow
even just epic storm is like 8 bounces?
edgy arrow
in what world did they think that would do anything
oh that’s interesting
same as chiron lol
solar maple
also yeah storm lightning lol
achilles actually uses splash dash with its kit very well
edgy arrow
my actual preference is lightning strike -> zeus call -> double strike -> splitting
which is convoluted and never happens
solar maple
chiron just takes it because it has a terrible kit
edgy arrow
but it means i don’t have to take storm
daring hedge
oh same, i actually did exactly that in a recent achilles 52
splitting bolt crossed out by AP1 :)
edgy arrow
oof
solar maple
also does anyone know what the beo bug fixes are on the test branch?
daring hedge
i just know it did something to fix icy flare
solar maple
👀
solar maple
now I can take arctic blast and make my build even worse! 👍
halcyon flame
history repeats itself
edgy arrow
hurray!
daring hedge
50 heat icy flare pseudo run when
edgy arrow
yeah i’ve been waiting
halcyon flame
def gonna happen
shy plinth
This reminds me of my favorite Beo fun fact!
The first recorded beo run on the high heat sheet was an icy flare 40
By horheristo
daring hedge
lol
edgy arrow
indeed
halcyon flame
i heard before that he used icy flare
eager vortex
when you have aphro attack, pick true shot cuz you have nothing better to pick then it gives you heart rend later on
edgy arrow
and he’s like “idk i like the aspect but the damage is bad”
shy plinth
halcyon flame
any technical reason why?
edgy arrow
and it’s like, yeah dude you used icy flare
daring hedge
that is uh. a title
shy plinth
I removed the embed lol
shy plinth
No I do not
edgy arrow
i know nothing about the guy but i’ll take your word for it
daring hedge
skipped to a random part in elysium to see him summon skelly in a chamber with like two elite splitter witches
wh
shy plinth
It was a different time Tail
halcyon flame
✨ Optimal play ✨
shy plinth
That's why it's torture%
daring hedge
ah yes of course
edgy arrow
yeah Tail’s been around since heat was invented or something
halcyon flame
152 heat
daring hedge
when heat numbers were BIG
shy plinth
That's so hot
halcyon flame
god you're really telling me 120 heat is basically comparable to 32 heat
enemies are actual damage sponges and deal absolutely absurd damage like how??
edgy arrow
why is there not a really click baity vid of 120 heat floating around
“120 heat!?!?!? DOUBLE the heat world record!!!!”
shy plinth
Who was pushing back then
edgy arrow
it must have that exact title
daring hedge
like me and maybe one or two other people
shy plinth
Daddy DeGrand!
daring hedge
i think someone was working on 150 so i just did 153
halcyon flame
the only saving grace at that point is that you could apparently easily have a bunch of dds
daring hedge
yeah the ability to stack DDs was kinda wild
halcyon flame
you can still kinda do that with chaos
edgy arrow
oh yeah i’ve seen some crazy screenshots of that
halcyon flame
what was with the "heat" room rewards?
edgy arrow
its stupid rare with chaos tho
shy plinth
halcyon flame
i really am curious about early access and how different it was back then because i'm been here for like only 4 months now
shy plinth
Victory screens looked different back then
halcyon flame
so i definitely was not there for 120 heat
shy plinth
This is Rynth's 160 heat clear
halcyon flame
what's that, 45 heat?
eager vortex
excuse me wtf is that
halcyon flame
i'm guessing 160 should be comparable to like 50 or above
halcyon flame
they did cerb dirty 😔
edgy arrow
i'm guessing 160 should be comparable to like 50 or above
idk elysium didn’t even exist back then
eager vortex
oh it's early access ?
edgy arrow
yeah
way back in early access
i’ve been playing since the steam EA release, but this was well before then
shy plinth
Almost 2 years ago
halcyon flame
was meg really the end of the line at some point
edgy arrow
i think asphodel was always there
feel like i’ve heard people say lernie was in the first release
but idk
daring hedge
This is Rynth's 160 heat clear
wait so this was from when hydra was the last boss right
shy plinth
Yes
edgy arrow
presumably; that looks like aspho in the background
shy plinth
daring hedge
wait yeah duh
edgy arrow
oh sick a vid
daring hedge
i'm tired
edgy arrow
imma save this and use it to confuse people
halcyon flame
yall really had to use keys to open infernal troves
nowadays do we even really bother to check them or is that me
shy plinth
Well that's why they're unlocked now
edgy arrow
not on TD3 yeah
shy plinth
Because all the EA players opened them up
daring hedge
you're welcome
edgy arrow
it’s also the EA player’s fault lernie has so many heads
each time you chop one off he grows two more c’mon guys
stop chopping
halcyon flame
but me like sord
edgy arrow
bludgeoning weapons only
yes that’s right this was a convoluted shill for beowulf the whole time
halcyon flame
ok i'll use zag shield
edgy arrow
sigh that’s allowed i guess
halcyon flame
it has really sharp edges but it's technically a bludgeon... right?
edgy arrow
you’re technically correct
technically correct is technically the best kind of correct
daring hedge
i like how pat's old kiss of styx was just, you get one more. full stop +1 DD thank you
edgy arrow
that’s still arguably worse than the current buff on SD
halcyon flame
jesus might as well just take the hydralite
solar maple
oh this test branch probably fixed chinese patty as well
edgy arrow
it’s a stupid amount of additional hp
solar maple
so we don't need to make a mod
daring hedge
we didn't have SD back in the olden days ok
eager vortex
can I ask what's the point of athena's +1 sd boon
I pick it up and it doesn't give me an extra
I am kinda
confuse
edgy arrow
it fills a slot
halcyon flame
you need to have already used your sd
edgy arrow
you have to have lost one
eager vortex
... but it'll be refreshed when I go into the next room anyway
edgy arrow
yeah
shy plinth
You gain the SD back on top
halcyon flame
you keep the dd
edgy arrow
but you still have to lose it
unique zephyr
I think it’s a former bug that became a feature
eager vortex
okay so if I die in the fight once, lose one sd then get the boon
it'll give me 1 extra sd or ...
halcyon flame
get dd > next chamber > gain sd > 1dd + sd
edgy arrow
idk if i’d say “bug” they just didn’t think about how those boons would work on SD
shy plinth
"Unintended"
edgy arrow
then it worked this way and they just shrugged and moved on
shy plinth
But they kept it
unique zephyr
but you have to die first ...
You can use asphodel lava or elysium eggs to do so
halcyon flame
it totally has to be a bug at best
shy plinth
Bug implies nonfunctional, this is an unintended interaction that they kept in the game
halcyon flame
reminds me of this "lernie skip" that they apparently almost left in but it caused the game to crash which is actually bad
edgy arrow
yeah they were super nice about it
since there was already a decent amount of speedrunning at the time
but yeah it made the game super whack and unstable if you did it apparently
not worth it even for speed if the game crashes
halcyon flame
there was more to it than crashes?
was it ever like, recorded or something?
i gotta see this
edgy arrow
the fight was just weird
since the mini heads still spawned in, but the main one wasn’t invulnerable
so you could kill it and leave with the mini heads still there
i can see why it made the game crash lol
halcyon flame
is that why?
but nowadays if you kill a boss with adds still alive then the adds die too
eager vortex
guess the heads weren't considered adds
halcyon flame
like if you kill the vermin while there's still big rats walking around
halcyon flame
👀
edgy arrow
i’m pretty sure they used to skip the second invul phase as well somehow tho, which he doesn’t do here
maybe he just needed even more burst damage
solar maple
the old casually routed runs
eager vortex
he does way too much damage with maegera
edgy arrow
wait no he had to kill the heads before leaving
hmm
idk i might be misremembering how it worked
i never did it myself; i was only peripherally aware of it
it was patched out not long after i started playing
daring hedge
i mean there's still a hydra skip it just involves an absurd amount of boons on rama so shared suffering can just nuke lernie and will never happen outside of routing probably
edgy arrow
how does that work?
he still takes shared suffering while invulnerable or something?
no that can’t be true
halcyon flame
i'm not at all surprised that using authority to reroll a room reward would increment rng back then
solar maple
shared suffering damage can overkill bosses
halcyon flame
especially now
daring hedge
something to do with how shared suffering is very exceptional yeah
solar maple
it happens normally pretty often, just not enough to skip a phase
eager vortex
so basically someone can do a routed speedrun and get a wr that can't be broken by normal means
interesting
eager vortex
well
daring hedge
satan has like, what a 4m nem route? it's insane
solar maple
so if the normal bow damage is enough to phase the boss, the shared suffering does no damage
eager vortex
I still think 64 can be done without routing
daring hedge
I still think 64 can be done without routing
yes but also requires a ridiculous amount of resets
solar maple
but if the normal bow damage is either not enough to phase, or hits something else, all the shared suffering damage will go through, even if it goes past the bosses phase health
so by hitting an add with an absolutely insane amount of damage you can skip a phase
solemn pulsar
satan has like, what a 4m nem route? it's insane
😦 I beat him by 1 second but downpatching isn’t allowed so my WR is not valid
solemn pulsar
Fell off route in chamber 33 too, would have been like 15 seconds under
solar maple
I guess it got broken by a patch
daring hedge
you could say some people are working on a rama route now
solemn pulsar
The thing to understand about routing is that there are literally 2 people who posted any heat routing times on this patch
1 max heat complete on post release
edgy arrow
you could say some people are working on a rama route now <:squirtdevious:472124...
hype
solar maple
solemn pulsar
It’s just not a very active thing at all
Rama max heat route coming soon ™️ will get back to work after Hermes cup tomorrow
edgy arrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx4S1W8NWkk
that’s hilarious lol
edgy arrow
i knew what was coming but it was still like, wait what
solar maple
gave up
edgy arrow
where did his hp go
eager vortex
I don't get this one
his shared pain dmg isn't high
how did lernie die there
weird
solar maple
oh his damage is very high
I believe this was with 4 epic dash strike chaos boons
he lowers lernie's health with normal attacks to not phase
also perfect shot + heart rend crit
eager vortex
yea it says "4x Dash Strike Damage from Chaos (117%, 118%, 100%, 100%)"
in the description
edgy arrow
checks out
solemn pulsar
Unfortunately it’s still too low to fully chunk a phase+1
But If you get it low enough close to a phase you can outdamage it
solar maple
this in a route also seems miserable because of crit rng
eager vortex
also it took him 18:30 to kill lernie
solar maple
this is just a proof of concept, not a real run
solemn pulsar
Engine level unfortunately
edgy arrow
it’d be a nightmare to do probably
even if it was possible
since you’d have to do it for every attack
solar maple
when I was doing rama speedruns I did actually use the overflow damage a decent amount
it's a real time save
edgy arrow
i imagine it would be
even without this absurdity
that’s why i’m surprised i’ve never noticed before
halcyon flame
dear god that's above 400% dash-strike damage from chaos
halcyon flame
how much dash strike dmg did the 4:25 nem have?
celest grail
i'd have to look
solemn pulsar
It’s a combination of dash strike and regular attack
celest grail
but i know that cgull had like 9 chaos attack/ds boons in his nem route
solemn pulsar
But it’s 6 chaos gates
So a little under 600% bonus dash strike damage all told
With heroic dashes, level 2common hunter dash, and heroic Artemis attack
Throw heart rend and double edge in there, and yeah...
solar maple
here is an example of the overflow damage in a real run -- the first and third phases I do overflow damage (from my first ever submitted run, the then rama wr at 9:15 LOL)
baby pseudo
sadly there is no low hanging fruit like that anymore
eternal hare
Everyone's too good at the game now!
solar maple
it's especially pronounced on the third phase damage
solar maple
this was pretty quick but I messed it up a bit
eternal hare
Yeah, if you did it right you would've instant phased all 4 parts
solar maple
sub 10 seconds is very doable on several weapons
yeah I wasn't used to the FO1 phase timing
so I was just guessing
celest grail
the cgull one or satan's?
because satan got tis
and flubbed it
havent watched cgull
celest grail
yeah
mossy zinc
stop chopping
No.
edgy arrow
future gamers gonna have to deal with 4000 head lernie smh
edgy arrow
you got me there
quiet hazel
Ok not sure if its the right place to discuss it
waxen cave
oops
quiet hazel
But oh God I did not know you had to kill hades 3 times to finish him 😭
First time I died and then had to get more duo boons like Zeus + Aries one to kills him
patent isle
For em4?
Lol yea that faked me out too
I was like oh he summoned minibosses and did a few other cool things. Nice!
Then perished
quiet hazel
Yeah I did not expect it to be that hard since the other bosses was only slightly harder
quiet hazel
Oh no
short sedge
could have been worse but im learning controller after playing all KBM so i really wasnt wanting spread fire
bro
no way
my game just crashed when i tabbed back into hades
started again at the temple of styx
anvil not bought
LETS GO
quiet hazel
Good luck
short sedge
i was so sad too. had heroic zeus attack on eris rail with delta chamber, was really feeling it. then spread fire fire happened
eager vortex
this is just sad
I wanted to reset my streak but not in such a sad way
expected to at least reach asphodel 
solar maple
TD2 is hard
eager vortex
I mean it would be completely unrealistic if I completed 50 heat
on my first try
so I wanted to reset my streak right
but come on
tartarus
sad
edgy arrow
yeah i’d definitely switch to TD3 DC2 and go down to AP1 and CP0
eager vortex
I'll switch to that setup
I'm just afraid td3 won't be enough cuz of high js and cp
spice lava
TD2 is fine with Hestia, even TD3 if you're used to the aspect, the real issue is BP2 i'd say
edgy arrow
listen to pseudo and avoid DC like the plague
edgy arrow
yeah actually this pact looks fine in that case
solar maple
and everything is miserable
spice lava
Ah, gotcha
edgy arrow
AP2 is workable
solar maple
AP2 is fine for hestia 50
eager vortex
I see that preferences start varying at 50 heat huh
this is where the real deal is
huhhh
okay
solar maple
yeah 50 is customizable
32 is custom, 40 is pretty standardized, and 50 is custom again IMO
edgy arrow
the meta is fairly fluid since there are relatively few people playing at 50+
spice lava
Well, 50 heat doesn't have enough performers so let's say the meta isn't rich yet
edgy arrow
yeah i’m sorry idk why i assumed eris
edgy arrow
i was doing high heat eris recently lol
spice lava
I'd take DC with a starter like AP2 + tidal dash, but nono if pure randomness
edgy arrow
hestia is a much better choice at 50 anyway
eager vortex
I died to witches lol
edgy arrow
oh that’s super fair
eager vortex
so ap2 was right for hestia
spice lava
Bp witches are fun at least with Hestia : the first to taste the other's medicine dies
edgy arrow
i would
spice lava
Bp skulls won most of the time compared to bp witches
edgy arrow
Bp witches are fun at least with Hestia : the first to taste the other's medicin...
cloner saviour
is that fun?
fair tho skulls rough as well
eager vortex
at least I don't have to keep giving up to keep my streak anymore
nobody believed it anyway
eager vortex
is asphodel like
easier than tartarus at 50 ?
or does it just
keep getting worse
spice lava
Depends of the aspect
edgy arrow
i’d say a little easier
but yeah it depends
and it has its own version of witches: dracons
eager vortex
assume it's all with hestia
waxen relic
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/824938895238103070/20210326102704_1.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/824938924195446804/20210326102715_1.jpg I'm done! Final Clears in Victory-boasting.
edgy arrow
with hestia bosses are alright yeah
spice lava
Asphodel is made or large rooms so running after foes is timeloss if you have a melee aspect so BP2 is still a threat
edgy arrow
BP2 is always a potential threat
spice lava
Yeah but Hestia is cool on large rooms because of the range luxuary + you can run
honest kernel
good stuff 
edgy arrow
holy crap crystal beams for gilga 40
is the only way to get anything done with that aspect to embrace the meme?
waxen relic
holy crap crystal beams for gilga 40
i started with Money, cuz why not, and got Cold Embrace for Furies and Heroes
spice lava
At 50 heat you really need to understand your aspect and how to get away with a poor build
waxen relic
Cold Embrace is pretty nice to sell
edgy arrow
that’s amazing
cold embrace at 40
shame you couldn’t keep it for an absolutely insane victory screen
waxen relic
yeah well, the other options were quite important to making it
edgy arrow
At 50 heat you really need to understand your aspect and how to get away with a ...
i prefer the 50 heat strat were i just keep trying until i win by luck
oh yeah absolutely
spice lava
^
edgy arrow
in your position i would’ve sold it in a heartbeat
eager vortex
you know what's the advantage of it though
edgy arrow
would’ve been funny tho
eager vortex
after trying 32, 16 seemed like I was cheating the game
after 40, 32 was easy
I saw 50 and now 40 seems normal
which is nice
edgy arrow
yeah it’s crazy how much your frame of reference changes
spice lava
Play 60 to make 50 seem normal then 👀
edgy arrow
in my head everything below 32 rounds down to zero
eager vortex
no it doesn't work that fast
I gotta get used to 50 first
that was my first and only run
which lasted only 3 minutes
if I manage to complete 50, then try 60
edgy arrow
3 minutes? wow you broke the speedrunning world record
eager vortex
50 may seem okay
edgy arrow
the difference between 40 and 50 is actually huge tho
eager vortex
well at 50 you start not being able to optimize your build
waxen relic
I don't think 40 to 50 is a good jump to make, i'd do sth like 45 to 48 first, with some of the noteworthy new pacts.
eager vortex
you get what you get
edgy arrow
yeah pretty much
honest kernel
can some1 help me with fist hammers real quick bc I never ran fists before
waxen relic
sure
eager vortex
I don't think 40 to 50 is a good jump to make, i'd do sth like 45 to 48 first, w...
yes I should 45 first tbh
edgy arrow
what aspect?
waxen relic
reset basically
honest kernel
lol
honest kernel
well i needed a death for unseeded anyway
waxen relic
i mean quake does nothing if you want to continue
honest kernel
dio
honest kernel
ok thanks
edgy arrow
heavy knuckle bad
honest kernel
what hammers should i look out for?
edgy arrow
breaching cross is the big one
kinetic launcher and explosive upper are both really good
waxen relic
Long Knuckle will make it easier
edgy arrow
^
honest kernel
thanks
solar maple
I went from 40 to 50 but it took quite a few attempts
eager vortex
explosive upper is great lol I thought it's useless
solar maple
or actually I took a break and learned speedrunning then came back and got it
edgy arrow
the key to heat pushing faster is learning to speedrun
solar maple
but before taking a break I tried 50 a bunch
edgy arrow
because after learning to speedrun, you do everything faster
or something
speaking of learning to speedrun
spice lava
I jumped from 40 to 50 as well but I got hundreds attempts
edgy arrow
my hate for sack rng has increased by several orders of magnitude
i thought it was bad for heat, but no
solar maple
I mean my first 33+ heat clear was a 12:43 40 heat beo lol
edgy arrow
it’s terrible for speed
solar maple
speedrunner brain
actually looking at my files I tried to jump from 32 to 50
probably a mistake
edgy arrow
i’ve seen worse
there’s was a guy came in here once who tried to jump to 50 straight after unlocking heat
solar maple
lol
edgy arrow
it wasn’t even just one attempt, he went straight into full on grinding
solar maple
there is one person in the speedrun discord trying to do first run after 1 (one) dad clear
solar maple
yeah the first run guy is grinding too
waxen relic
i remember a guy who wanted to do Fresh File 40, you have to keep in mind that there's no RI or Em there
edgy arrow
idk if he ever made it
lol
well respect to that first run guy as well
inspirational stuff
solar maple
speaking of first run I choked the easiest dad fight I'll ever get to see on first run today
I had 250 hp and ME LOL
got through the first 2/3 of first phase only getting hit once
then threw it all away
spice lava
It's up to each player to try 50 after 45 or after 40, the reset counter won't change that much I think
solar maple
yeah the total number of tries will probably be similar
doing more realistic heat does help you practice later biomes though
edgy arrow
very few people do 45 without planning on doing 50 afterwards i think
waxen relic
Maybe, but you'll get a clear midway through to motivate at least
spice lava
If you reset for 45, that's probably a little less number of resets on your 50 journey
edgy arrow
yeah
solar maple
yeah seeing some win screens now and then is nice
edgy arrow
i did 40 -> 46 -> 50
solar maple
I'm beginning to forget what they look like
edgy arrow
i just wanted to practice the 50 heat beo pact without EM4
now it’s the other way around and i only practice EM4
actual no i’m mostly distracted by mediocre speedrunning
soon i’ll be a mediocre heat player and a mediocre speedrunner!
spice lava
Mediocre speedrunning? 👀
waxen relic
Hey 50 Heat and Mediocrity don't go together
edgy arrow
well i only did 50 once by accident
waxen relic
You did it and it counts
edgy arrow
... touché
spice lava
We are few people to train 50 heat and there's a few group among us who really cares about going fast on 50
spice lava
Just clearing 50 is fine for me, whatever the needed time 😄
edgy arrow
weren’t you doing baby chaos 50 tho
solar maple
I did try a speedrun but I don't think I can move up the leaderboard at all
tail and hadesprof are too fast
edgy arrow
that’s basically the same as speedrunning, just to clear TD
probably even if it’s TD1 idk
spice lava
Still trying baby chaos
quiet hazel
How many prayers do you have to do before doing 50?
solar maple
normal chaos is hard enough haha
edgy arrow
^
spice lava
I'm looking for trouble, exploring non sense
Baby Chaos, 50 pact with FO0, red reroll...
solar maple
FO0???
I thought latt was crazy with his FO1 haha
though he did get there in the end
edgy arrow
what in the world is this pact
FO0 and there’s no way you’re running TD3
i’d barely believe TD2 honestly
solar maple
tbf with FO0 em4 is doable
spice lava
Ofc not, TD2 AP1 EM4 FO0
edgy arrow
do you have like RI3 or something?