You can't use Priv Status with Arty
#h1-high-heat-strategies
light stag
bright mango
Cursed
rigid moon
that sounds like endless enemies
light stag
Rama is strong with special only
bright mango
NO
edgy arrow
the no attack boon is pretty nice tho lol
light stag
Special only Rama is legit
mossy zinc
What are you talking about? Deadly Flourish is BiS on Chiron on lower heats. Drunken Flourish can potentially go higher at very high heats with JS and CP.
bright mango
Do I @ tailesque rn?
bronze viper
... What exactly do you think Concentrated and Relentless do lol? Modifiers being multiplicative doesn't make other multiplicative mods worse, it makes them better. Literally Boiling Blood by itself is enough to edge out Artemis over Aphrodite from a damage perspective.
bright mango
Feel like I should
Crits are so good because they are multiplicative
Thats why artemis is so good
It takes all your damage and then x3
light stag
More base damage means that % based boons benefit the same as Deadly Flourish
light stag
only they are on average more damage after a couple of boon and are not unrealiable
bright mango
Other % increases make artemis even better
FF, boiling blood are a couple of examples
Lol If you want the math here it is
I got it saved
bronze viper
Crit on Chiron is also super duper reliable. It hits a ton of times per second, so the variance curve will be quite low
edgy arrow
^
gaunt fiber
Deadly flourish good
edgy arrow
yeah it averages crits so well
light stag
yeah crits are good when you get +% damage from other sources
bright mango
(120*1.5) x 15 = 2700 - Aphrodite
((120 x 1.2) x (15 x 0.85)) + (3 x (120 x 1.2)) x (15 x 0.15) = 2802 - Artemis
Average over 15 hits with rama
Not factoring in other damage sources or hunters mark
light stag
on Chiron special there are just no realiable sources of +%
bright mango
Aphro - 180
Artemis - 187.2
This is the average damage of each
For rama
And hunters mark makes this even better
bright mango
And the math for that is here
Aphro - ((120 * 1.5)x100)/100
Artemis- (((120*1.2)x85)+((3(120 x 1.2)) x 15))/100
edgy arrow
like, its still chiron but just play aphro special then arty special
bronze viper
I.... think I remember looking at that math and thinking it was wrong, but I'm busy and can't do that again lol. I'm pretty certain Artemis = Aphrodite across the board from assuming same rarity for attack/special
bright mango
No we figured out that it was wrong
edgy arrow
the difference is very tangible
bronze viper
Either way. they're basically the same. Hell, give Aphro a little edge here in damage, doesn't matter. Even the 20% from FF makes Artemis auto-better.
bright mango
^^^
edgy arrow
^
bronze viper
Weak is really nice on aspects that like to be in scrapping range. That is definitely not Chiron lmao
bright mango
Aphro - ((120 * 1.5)x100)/100
Artemis- (((120*1.2)x85)+((3(120 x 1.2)) x 15))/10...
This was over a hundred shots
With rama
edgy arrow
also like, get weak as well if you want?
bright mango
Dying lament is great
edgy arrow
but put it on attack and get heart rend like a normal person
bright mango
Or wave of despair
bronze viper
Sure, it's great on the attack. I like Doom or more Artemis there too, but yeah chase your bliss
light stag
Pengy I don't know what any of those multipliers do
edgy arrow
what's the advantage of doom?
halcyon flame
mainly p. status i guess?
edgy arrow
no lol
halcyon flame
it's good for aphro builds because of curse of longing
bright mango
Pengy I don't know what any of those multipliers do
120 is rama base damage. 1.5 is damage multiplier from aphrodite. I multiplied it by 100 because 100 shots, and then divided it by 100 to get the average. Artemis is 120 base damage x 85 times it will not crit. 120 x 15 times it will crit, and then multiplied that by 3 because of crit multiplier. Divided that by 100 to get the average
Thats how I did it
bronze viper
It's just nice base damage. No particular reason. I get Ares a lot incidentally, it's better than waiting for a damage boon on my attack that might not happen
halcyon flame
mmh
edgy arrow
that's fair
light stag
Oh I get it - you are talking about Attack on Rama
halcyon flame
are there really any better alternatives?
bronze viper
Makes the weapon a bit more flexible so you don't have to power shot either
light stag
I was talking about special on Chiron
edgy arrow
but power shot muscle memory
halcyon flame
are we still talking about chiron
bright mango
I was talking about special on Chiron
chiron is a bit trickier to do the math on, but artemis would still be better
solar maple
at common lv 1 no other benefits arty does a bit more damage than aphro
bright mango
i was just proving that artemis > aphrodite. Sorry nyaanyaa
light stag
But even on attack (which ever aspect) Aphro does more on average after one rarity or pom increase
solar maple
with rarity/poms and no other scaling aphro is more
then with other scaling arty catches up and pulls ahead
bright mango
But factor in hunters mark, boiling blood and stuff, artemis jumps up
edgy arrow
also arty does fun things with +special% chaos boons
light stag
the math is the same for average damage
solar maple
aphro gets about twice as much from poms/rarity
edgy arrow
which is a bit unreliable but not stupidly so
light stag
one thing is with one random big attack in five you are also wasting damage getting over armor or boss phases
light stag
arty multiplies ev of all +% by 1.3
That's the math
solar maple
with explosive shot for example common arty attack is over twice as much damage bonus as aphro attack
light stag
basically (1 +2*crit chance) multiplier for everything else
doesn't expolive shot increase base attack?
bronze viper
10 * 1.8 = 18 (Chiron common Aphro special)
10 * 1.4 * .8 + 10 * 3.4 * .2 = 18 (Chiron common Arty special, 20% crit)
It's not that bad lol, the odds can just be averaged out per arrow, it doesn't matter how many of them there are.
solemn pulsar
So the big thing that makes the difference is that crits multiply ALL additive damage
Family favorites buff? (1+2x) multiplier
Boiling blood? Multiplier
A good run can rack up 50-100% additive damage
Having all that multiplied by crit is what really puts Artemis over the top
solemn pulsar
Explosive shot? Multiplier
Point blank shot? Multiplier
Aphrodite just is another additive buff
solar maple
10 * 1.8 = 18 (Chiron common Aphro special)
10 * 1.4 * .8 + 10 * 3.4 * .2 = 18 (...
3.4 is not the multiplier for a crit
bronze viper
A good run can rack up 50-100% additive damage
You literally leave the courtyard with 100% potential additive damage from backstabs and Boiling blood lol
light stag
family favourites gives +6% on average with DF
solemn pulsar
Backstab the? Multiplier
solemn pulsar
family favourites gives +6% on average with DF
FF gets to 25 on most runs...
bronze viper
Whoops, you're right
light stag
The thing is the "good run" part
gaunt fiber
what is DF
edgy arrow
what is DF
deadly flourish
bronze viper
That's just .... a run lol
gaunt fiber
oh ok
solar maple
eh in high heat having <5 gods for a while is common
light stag
Oh yeah was looking at the wiki and misread FF
gaunt fiber
it's common at 50 not before
solar maple
especially when you sell your only ares boon
solemn pulsar
Well what heat/pact are we talking about
light stag
so that's 12 %
light stag
Getting +% on bow attack is easy because there are many many hammers which give additive damage
- you can easily get bonus damage on dash attacks
bronze viper
I'm so lost. A: What exactly do you think FF does. B: It doesn't matter where more % damage is coming from because Deadly Flourish literally comes out of the gate doing more damage, and then it scales better too
solemn pulsar
Look you have to trust that people have played this game for hundreds if not thousands of hours and have figured this stuff out. Artemis outdamages Aphrodite in almost every scenario because that’s the whole point of her design
bronze viper
Aphro outdamages everyone else because.... weak... is not a good status? Look, SGG isn't perfect okay
gaunt fiber
weak not good?
solemn pulsar
Aphro doesn’t have any synergies for damage besides sweet surrender with weak
Poseidon has a ton of knock back damage boons
Demeter has arctic blast and killing freeze
sullen minnow
Does she though
solar maple
arctic blast lol
solemn pulsar
I’m not saying they’re good
bronze viper
Imagine getting Killing Freeze
solemn pulsar
I’m just citing the design
solar maple
I still think arctic blast is the worst high heat boon in the game
solemn pulsar
Look
sullen minnow
just playin with ya :p
bronze viper
lmao we understand your point
solemn pulsar
I know
gaunt fiber
we do lol
solemn pulsar
Gettin my chops busted
gaunt fiber
sorry man
solar maple
yeah I think aphro attack is about the right power level
gaunt fiber
But I don't think it makes weak bad
light stag
Where is the 12
average boost from crits 40%*25 so its 10% on average actually
gaunt fiber
You don't joke about weak
solemn pulsar
???? You get the .25 on all your non crit damage too
light stag
I still think arctic blast is the worst high heat boon in the game
With Glacial glare + multiple beams it can do some damage
solemn pulsar
That’s an extra 10% from the crit
bronze viper
GY doesn't even care. 30% DR from Infinity is still Infinity when you have 0 health
solemn pulsar
Family favorites gives aphro 25% boost, it gives Artemis 35%
That’s the difference
sullen minnow
Wait what did I miss there
solemn pulsar
Every bit of additive damage is multiplied by that crit
sullen minnow
Ohhhhhh
light stag
That's what I meant
bronze viper
Every bit of additive damage is multiplied by that crit
hoarding slash cries
solemn pulsar
Hoarding slash is the only true additive damage
Everything else is an additive multiplier lol
light stag
is hoarding slash the only multiplier not affected by crits?
solar maple
it's not a multiplier
solemn pulsar
It’s the only damage in the entire game not affected by crits
bronze viper
Yep, it's truly additive lmao
solemn pulsar
They just add it at the end lol
bronze viper
What an honor
solar maple
eh for ap2 sword hammers I'm not mad at all about hoarding slash
bronze viper
Oh sure. I'd put it at Stygius B- tier
solar maple
it doesn't kill me and it technically does something
gaunt fiber
GY doesn't even care. 30% DR from Infinity is still Infinity when you have 0 he...
It's not true
I mean when you have 50 hp
when you have 25 well
you dead
but it may save you even at 25hp tbh
bronze viper
Nope
wanton plover
sadge
bronze viper
It's a feature. I don't know. It feels pretty intentionally done in that way considering it's the only example
They didn't want Nemesis to have a good hammer I guess.
solar maple
well nemesis does have a good hammer
just not 2
though piercing wave is fine tbh
and breaching is strong at high heat
light stag
So if you got 10k obols HS will give you x 15 base damage on a crit
light stag
sorry if crits applied
10k obols would give 15 times the attack on a crit
which isn't that much for the effort
halcyon flame
has 10k obols in a single run even been reached?
highest was 9k by haelian as far as i know
bronze viper
Get @solemn pulsar on that route
solar maple
you could get a lot of gold routed
halcyon flame
hades | aspect of zagreus 12k gold [routed]
light stag
So yeah, if you get this amount which probably no one has collected and if you get like World splitter you will do 1350 on a crit without all the other multipliers
solar maple
nah more than 12k
light stag
Honestly it isn't that broken
halcyon flame
i'd like to see routed hoarding + flurry
light stag
Let Hoarding Slash Crit!
halcyon flame
epic side hustle in tart + epic swift strike because zagius 🤣 👌
solar maple
epic gold from chaos is up to +100%
with 2 chaos + ocean's bounty duos are selling for 1.5k
timid rapids
does LC nerf stubborn roots?
solar maple
it does not
light stag
no, its 1
solar maple
I think so? I don't remember it being changed
solar maple
also for those not in the speedrun discord, latt did his 50 heat zag bow
with the cursed FO1 pact
solemn pulsar
just cheat in extra gold lol i dont wanna route that
unique zephyr
with the cursed FO1 pact
How do you do 50 without FO2
solar maple
that's why I said cursed
I think this is the first 50 heat FO1 clear ever
he did AP2 RI2 TD3 is where the heat comes from
unique zephyr
I just looked, routine inspection
solar maple
usually 1 of those would be taken off
unique zephyr
I’m really glad I am getting used to FO2 because it makes my pacts so much less icky
It made my Hestia 40 pact much easier to make
bronze viper
Honestly, Latt is very technically capable, I think he put a lot of superstitious value on his experience from FO2 -> FO1 and ended up handicapping his runs with AP2 for no reason lol.
He was getting technically better by just playing, but never considered turning FO2 back on.
solar maple
when he first mentioned FO1 it sort of made sense because he was going to take em4
and that fight is much harder on FO2
bronze viper
Right
bronze viper
Lmao I remember his hubris the first time he tried FO2 EM4 at 40 with Nemesis ME. He had the nut build and was super confident and kind of dismissed my concerns about his lack of desire to bolster his life total and look for DDs.
bronze viper
Chat was against me too. "Nah look at his damage, he's got this." Oh you sweet summer children.
He was annihilated lol.
solar maple
yeah em4 is brutal
you cannot damage race em4 unless you have like the build cgull had at his 50 beo run
this nonsense lol
bronze viper
Lmao double epic hyper delivery so wasted on beo
daring hedge
that 50 heat EM4 igt too what in the world
alongside the like 15m nem 50 retrash got one time
solar maple
his dad fight was 2 mins flat
bronze viper
The .7 seconds is enough for the dash strike min charge dragon rush?
solar maple
he almost beat my 50 heat pb on his first clear lol
yes the .7 is enough
also if you dash right after the later casts get buffed
Since they take a bit to come out
bronze viper
Oh that makes sense. Nice, good to know.
solar maple
it takes about .5s for the first cast to come out
so with common hyper sprint the timing is very tight
but with epic if you dash right after you should get all casts buffed pretty much all the time with mini rushes
actually wait no
it is longer than I thought
bright mango
@unique zephyr If you are having trouble with beo 32, take em4. Beo is extremely good at that fight
solar maple
do not do this ^^
bronze viper
<@!266732686838595606> If you are having trouble with beo 32, take em4. Beo is e...
This is some of the wildest advice I've ever seen lmao
That is like, Nashville Hot Chicken spicy
solar maple
beo can take em4
solar maple
but then you probably have to do it with DDs tbh
bronze viper
I play too unga bunga to use DDs
bright mango
lol same
You can take some off HL
makes em4 way easier
Did latt beat 50 zag bow?
bronze viper
Yeah
bronze viper
I'll start the project again this weekend. With FO2, like a person lol
bright mango
I mean if fo1 works then good for you
bronze viper
I think he made it harder for himself for no reason lol
bright mango
Idk I don't find em4 to be too hard at 32
bronze viper
He got the skillset from just playing, and was banging his head against AP2 for no reason
bright mango
Yeah
bright mango
yeah
bronze viper
Yeah, but there's something delightful about the idea of, "Oh, if you're having difficulty with x pact setup, have you considered adding EM4?"
bright mango
lmao
But you can remove difficult pacts and just take em4 since the fight is so easy with beo
Especially at 32
bronze viper
I don't think it's easy lol. It's easier. But if someone is having mechanical issues playing Beo well, EM4 won't help anything.
bright mango
That is very true
solar maple
em4 is still the hardest fight of a 50 heat beo run
bright mango
em4 is like by far the hardest fight in the game
solar maple
for all I meme about it being free heat
bronze viper
Meg stresses me out on Beo
solar maple
I died on sub 2 tart pace to meg the other day LOL
on 40 heat speedrun
I was going to get like a 1:45 tart on 40 heat with no than
bronze viper
That's some srs business zoomies
bronze viper
SImple math, 50 is only 25% harder than 40
solar maple
50 I'm happy with sub 3
solar maple
sub 2:30 is fantastic pace on 50 heat
wintry berry
When I get 3min at 50, I die some rooms after
bronze viper
When i get 3 minutes at 50... that would imply this has happened before. I'll fill in the blanks when that happens.
bright mango
Fastest I've gotten at 50 is 4 mins
bronze viper
I can get semi-consistent 3:30 on Rama with good room RNG
solar maple
and that's with em4 so it's only "feels" like 46 heat
so ~3 mins is the goal to get sub 14
because em4 loses like 2 mins at the end 😦
solar maple
retrash hears it every day
bronze viper
It's a long song lol
bronze viper
Hmm, in practice I think phase 3 takes the least amount of time for me, it just has the highest intensity.
bright mango
i still cant decide if I hate phase 1 or 3 more
solar maple
let me find one of his lowest dps runs
bronze viper
Is it not the Tempest Strike Zagius run
bronze viper
i still cant decide if I hate phase 1 or 3 more
Depends on aspect and how annoying urns are for you.
solar maple
yeah probably not 4 mins for phase 3
bright mango
i think it has to be phase 3
bright mango
Also I figured out that elysium erebus gates summon minibosses
bronze viper
Yeah. I forgot about that.
bright mango
Got hit instantly
bronze viper
Do they also have BP2? Lol
bright mango
i got so freaked out by dusa head
And there were linkers surrounding me
I just panicked megged
solar maple
that's only in elysium I think
bright mango
It was 32 heat so I thought it wouldn't be terrible
solar maple
oh btw how would you all feel about a high heat themed bingo competition?
bronze viper
People in EA were guessing that late Erebus gates potentially easier than normal Elysium rooms
I am... skeptical
solar maple
if you have seen the hades bingo stuff
bright mango
As long as the heat isn't too high where everything depends on rng
solar maple
because one of the tiles would certainly be "get the reward from an elysium erebus gate"
bronze viper
"Complete EM4 without Beowulf."
solar maple
well the bingo stuff wouldn't require 50+ heat, but that might be faster
for example one of the tiles might be "beat em4"
and another might be "mirrorless run"
bright mango
If we are gaming then beat em4 + fo2
solar maple
you technically could do both at once
bright mango
But that would probably be too hard
bronze viper
"Get Fully Loaded"
solar maple
impossible
solar maple
if you have any ideas for tiles I could actually make this
it's mostly just a random idea that I'll probably never do lol
unique zephyr
<@!266732686838595606> If you are having trouble with beo 32, take em4. Beo is e...
I'm not taking EM4, I don't think I can solve the problem by making the final boss much harder and removing 4 heat from the pact
it's my mechanics and not the pact that needs work probably
unique zephyr
Just saw, the disagreements make sense
bronze viper
Carolina Reaper Pepper spicy take.
unique zephyr
wait since I have trouble with TD3 as it is EM4 would only net one heat
bronze viper
"Finish an Attack+Maim based run on Gilgamesh 32+"
bronze viper
Yeah that pact combo is cursed for most aspects. Beo can do it just fine but it's a hard mechanics check.
Apparently my intuition is pretty solid because I finished my 50 in 16:56 lol
solar maple
beo fast
I think I can push my 50 heat beo time down to a low 13 if I give it some effort
bronze viper
Lol, I wasn't even trying to go fast, I just normal vroom boom splosions then things died.
solar maple
yeah beo will do that
beo can really have 0s on the clock going into styx with em4
and be fine
bright mango
^^^
solar maple
for most other aspects that would be a death sentence
solar maple
well maybe not all em4 phases
bronze viper
Tbf, that's a lot of aspects
solar maple
what is? a lot would be fine or dead?
bronze viper
Instaphase Dad phases
solar maple
ah yeah
bronze viper
Maybe not EM4, he's a bit too chonk
solar maple
yeah just look at the speedrun wr for pretty much any aspect lol
they all do it super fast
you will see many purple rush deliveries lol
bright mango
Pseudo are you going to push for beo wr any heat?
bronze viper
Pretty sure Rush Delivery Cluster Rocket Eris can still phase CP0 EM4 though
solar maple
yeah probably
bright mango
Good luck
solar maple
well not 2nd/3rd health bar em4
those are half and the entire health bar respectively
solar maple
dio beo often 1 shots the half health phases of normal dad on very strong builds in speedruns
bright mango
You can also one shot asterius phase
bronze viper
I feel like that happens to me on Rama pretty regularly lol
double crit double suffering Twin Perfect Shot
eternal hare
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/711301665655095297/821965723144290314/unknown.png so kinda like that
(except the second one didn't crit)
bronze viper
mmm big chungus numbers (you don't need all the hits to crit lol, that's way overkill already)
solar maple
yeah rama is the other boss 1 shotting wep
bright mango
Triple + point blank is pretty chunky as well
solar maple
current beo wr from like earlier today has a 34 second dad fight
and it could have been faster
bronze viper
Triple is kind of a bummer though becuase you can't line up the thicc shotguns on multiple enemies
I know Tail likes it, but also I assume he dies a lot less trying to line up Triple power shots
solar maple
do you know how many times I've tried to triple shotgun alecto
with the projectiles lol
bronze viper
It's not easy lol.
solar maple
one day I'll get it
bronze viper
Sometimes my brain is "no I refuse to learn" mode and I just eat like 5 different purple balls
edgy arrow
when learn when you have SD
bronze viper
Don't buy Tail's lies, Triple is a trap
edgy arrow
like half the rama hammers are good lol
bronze viper
Your brain will hunt for value, then you die
solar maple
triple good
solar maple
idk being on a run and being offered sniper/relentless volley is demoralizing
and those aren't the worst
bronze viper
I love Relentless Volley lol
edgy arrow
the problem is, if you ask Tail to prove that triple is worth it he just will
and then where will we be
bronze viper
I "seeded" for it on my first 50 unseeded
By that I mean I took it over Triple Shot in room 1
solar maple
?????
bronze viper
D I O K E E P S A K E
edgy arrow
ok but
solar maple
bronze viper
Special Rama represent
bronze viper
Yeah I'll have to revisit that when I work on that 50
edgy arrow
agree
solar maple
also keep in mind that I can't aim the rama special lol
no way am I doing a special build
bronze viper
Yeah I wish I could play Rama without auto aim
edgy arrow
it’s actually embarrassing
bronze viper
But gee whiz the special is so narrow, wayyyy too hard
edgy arrow
what if i told you i’m using auto-aim
eternal hare
at least it bounces off walls and enemies a bit so it's a bit more lenient on aim
bronze viper
RIP
edgy arrow
idk how i’m this bad
bronze viper
I remember the first time I tried 40 Hestia, I whiffed on Theseus going around the room 10 times in a row
solar maple
are you kbm ledger?
bronze viper
Controller
eternal hare
controller auto-aim on theseus when he's circling around is pretty tough in general
it's always behind a little bit
bronze viper
Yeah you literally just can't do it, I found out the hard way. You have to be aiming at him from an angle in front of him
edgy arrow
just do no autoaim controller ez
bronze viper
Okay but. I actually need to hit things to kill them.
bronze viper
I think if I had to do Hestia non auto aim in a Numbskull room I'd just uninstall
solar maple
apparently during lovcrimson's chiron speedruns (kbm) they turn auto aim on/off depending on the room lol
edgy arrow
that sounds extremely annoying
bronze viper
That is some dedication
edgy arrow
i mean, more power to them
but i can’t even be bothered to remap keys when switching aspects
solar maple
did you see the nutty times they were putting down?
they got the first, second, and third chiron sub 8s in like 2 days
edgy arrow
i actually know nothing about chiron speedrunning
solar maple
with a low 7 on one of them
edgy arrow
that’s pretty legit on chiron
might have to watch some
chiron feels like an aspect that’s probably more fun to watch people speedrun than actually speedrun lol
eternal hare
does splash dash just carry the entirety of tartarus on its back
solar maple
yes
solar maple
chiron speedruns usually transition from bad gilgamesh to bad zag bow
bronze viper
Yeah, had Latt continued down the unseeded rabbit hole I would have strongly advised him to take Splash Dash into Tartarus
That is probably where I'll be at this weekend lol
bronze viper
Sub 8 pace. Aspect now officially good at high heat and zoomies
edgy arrow
i can’t even do sub 9 on actually good aspects haha
how does speedrun
7:14 is very low
i’m sure i could spend all that in tartarus with the right (aka wrong) pacts and bad room rng
solar maple
td1 is disgusting
I would still take td2 if it was worth 0 heat tbh
td1 has to be the only pact that makes the game easier
bronze viper
I think I ended up taking a Tartarus trial in 1.0 (when Armored Thugs were broken in trials) before I got Static Discharge or Double Strike
edgy arrow
td1 has to be the only pact that makes the game easier
you should see some of my early runs
solar maple
I've seen bright die to survival rooms on random 32 heat runs
edgy arrow
turns out some people are slow at this game
solar maple
BP/JS survaval is no joke
edgy arrow
at my worst i’ve had runs that damn near would’ve timed out to TD1 twice
bronze viper
Some of the victory screens are darling, with their grueling 50 minute runs. That's like... a long time. That's actually impressive
For prolonged focus
solar maple
tbf you might have gone afk for a bit
edgy arrow
i’m honestly impressed at myself
bronze viper
To be fair, our tools were bad. I remember trying Zag Spear special and thinking "holy crap, this does SO MUCH MORE DAMAGE than the sword"
solar maple
i know some of my early runs did
bronze viper
I wasn't wrong fwiw
edgy arrow
pretty sure i was using deadly strike zag rail or something
the funny part is i was running plume
was i speedrunning in my head? idek
it’s a mystery
bronze viper
That 4% dodge by Dad was really carrying
solar maple
when I was new my opinions about what was good weren't that bad tbh
I knew +dashes were insanely good
and double edge
solar maple
dedge +3 dashes got me my first lernie win and my first heroes win on the same run lol
bronze viper
Everything from every game I've ever played taught me that movement speed is broken, but I just walked into lava and traps when I got too much. 700 hours later... nothing has changed.
solar maple
yeah I'm at about that as well
bright mango
I’m at 150
bronze viper
Yeah, people put the people who can meme at 50 on pedestals, but really we're just degens who play way too much lmao
bright mango
Lmao
solar maple
lol
bright mango
I would like to get a 50 clear before 200 hours
edgy arrow
people doing extreme heat meme runs is one of the things that’s kept me around so long tbh
i can’t do them myself, but man is it fun to watch
bronze viper
Also newer players have the videos and advice of older to not have to figure out everything from scratch, so that cuts out a lot of pointless experimentation and trial and error time
bright mango
True
solar maple
Z E U S C A S T
bronze viper
E.g. I was certain that Artemis special on Chaos was the way to go 32+
edgy arrow
then there’s schad just getting a world record in 200 hours and claiming to be bad
bronze viper
Support Fire is so OP how do you go wrong
bronze viper
To be fair, Schad put like... all of his eggs in the Eris basket
solar maple
when I was new I almost never used god keepsakes lol
I pretty much always started coinpurse
bright mango
when I was new I almost never used god keepsakes lol
Same
bronze viper
I made that mistake in EA, when I realized every aspect was not pre-nerf Chaos lol
solar maple
fat stonks
edgy arrow
i didn’t realise god keepsakes worked outside of tartarus for a stupidly long time
bright mango
So i went collar
bronze viper
"Oh crap, I have to learn how to play this game?"
What escape attempt were your 32/40's at?
I think I got 32 at 100ish
edgy arrow
i tried one in aspho one time and got hermes first or something and assumed that meant it didn’t do anything
bronze viper
But I was hard carried
wintry berry
I farmed to have nearly all aspects/keepsakes to max before knowing how to play
wintry berry
so I don't have some frustration when testing some builds
solar maple
#60 of my 1.0 file
edgy arrow
no way i got to 32 in 100
solar maple
so probably low 100s overall
bronze viper
Yeah, it's just interesting to see people's learning curves.
edgy arrow
32 to 40 also took me forever
solar maple
around 50 runs I think
bronze viper
32 to 40 took me like... 20 between them I think? Lemme check. Chaos borked
edgy arrow
yeah they nerfed chaos inbetween my first 32 and my first 40 lol
so i had to get gud (i didn’t i just used eris)
solar maple
the 400 runs were learning speedrunning
edgy arrow
oh speedrunning ofc lol
solar maple
then I came back and knocked out 40 heat beo in a day
edgy arrow
i was gonna say 400 is a lot
bronze viper
I have... so much more admiration for speedrunners' perseverance after I got my first sub 10 yesterday. I had to reset once without HL or HS with 3 DDs and I swore I would never do that to myself again
bronze viper
That's technology
solar maple
hot speedrun tech
edgy arrow
ledger: speedrunners have so much perseverance
also ledger: still playing high heat chiron
solar maple
lol
bronze viper
Literally still playing the same run, TD0 tech
solar maple
the fact that I would probably have to take td2 is what is stopping me from trying 24x40 tbh
I just can't bring myself to do it
patent isle
what does 24x40 mean?
celest grail
what does 24x40 mean?
Completing 40 heat with 24 aspects (which is all of them)
patent isle
damn
solar maple
yes
solar maple
the best of the best have done 24x50
celest grail
bablo, a very good hades player, streaked 40 heat on all aspects twice
Streaked meaning, he won in a row
solar maple
yep all aspects twice at 40, 48 straight wins
patent isle
dang
celest grail
Oh has hadesprof done it too? Huh
solar maple
I think those are the only 2
celest grail
Lol
solar maple
retrash has 19 done according to the spreadsheet
so he'll get it soon (ish)
zag fist, hestia, eris, rama, hera are the ones not listed
not sure if he just didn't submit the top tier ones
or he just hasn't done hestia/rama/eris lol
celest grail
id be surprised if he hasnt
solar maple
I have no doubt that he can do all of those at 50 though
so he'll get it soon
I mean he cleared 51 zag rail
there is no way he can't do eris
celest grail
hasnt he done like 56 heat zag sword lol
celest grail
And 52 heat guan yu lmao
edgy arrow
zag fist, hestia, eris, rama, hera are the ones not listed
i swear the only reason he hasn’t done 24x50 is because he refuses to play the good aspects
solar maple
lol pretty much
edgy arrow
he only got the beo wr because no one was playing it at the time
solar maple
yeah noone was really pushing beo heat
edgy arrow
then he stopped playing it as soon as people started deciding it was actually good
edgy arrow
i believe
solar maple
can't be caught playing a real weapon
edgy arrow
...did you just get beo and GY mixed up?
i guess i can’t talk; it took me literal months to learn the difference between hera and hestia
imagine reading past the first letter of a word
bronze viper
H... wait that's not a B. over it
edgy arrow
pretty much lmao
solar maple
ow wait lol
well I'm still not wrong
but I was posting about GY in the other discord lol
with some pretty cursed strats
"ok someone pls tell me I'm stupid but I want to try heightened security + stubborn defiance + high confidence GY call build. If you take ~166% of your max health in 1 hit you get full call instantly"
edgy arrow
woah
big brain
chaos curse for lower max health could be clutch
farm extra DDs from athena only to waste them instantly
solar maple
yeah the main problem with the strat is spikes are "only" 100% of your max hp
so in tart you need bomb trap for full call
and in aspho there is only lava basically
so same issue
patent isle
thats so funny lmao
edgy arrow
genius stuff
patent isle
massive brain
solar maple
if I try this I die 100% of the time lol
edgy arrow
chaos egg necessary
solar maple
not eligable for health curse if you have <50 max hp iirc
solar maple
at least that's what the wiki says
though the wiki is often wrong
so which call would by good do you think?
arty call is the best if you are living the full call dream probably
but for single call maybe zeus?
bronze viper
does someone have the link to the ello boon selector github repo?
edgy arrow
get all those T2s and it’s better
bronze viper
I need to Triple Drunken Strike meme and I refuse to do it randomly
bronze viper
Thanks
solar maple
using full arty call to instantly clear a wave sounds so fun though
it's like 1700 base damage lol
and yeah for repeated use zeus is better I think
I'll give this a go but I highly doubt I'll clear LOL
do I run HL5 as well?
tooth in hades fight for extra call LOL
mossy zinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kRqJP2m-6w3WsZVQiCsQtgwbeUmV2lghJVJAfQV_nU4/edit?usp=sharing
patent isle
do yall take keepsakes to make certain builds in high heat
i thought that was the plan but i heard someone saying otherwise
mossy zinc
Done with all rarities from Lv.1 to Lv.25 and from +0% bonus damage to +120% bonus damage.
@patent isle yes and no. At some point with AP2 UC etc., you're no longer making "builds" as much as you're just hoping for some core boons that will be good enough, or you just take Shattered Shackle.
But at 32, you're still doing builds just like at any heat.
solar maple
with rarity/poms and no other scaling aphro is more
yeah basically this nyaa
I do builds at 50 heat
🙂
but yeah even then it's taking what you can get
often at high heat you force athena in aspho because athena is fantastic for safety
and usually people start with their god keepsake of choice for damage
then take defensive keepsakes (tooth/acorn usually) for elysium + styx
at extreme (50+) heat you start to see stuff like coinpurse/shackle more
unique zephyr
When do you take coin purse?
solar maple
other keepsakes also have a niche sometimes -- I've taken hourglass on 58 heat before lol
coin purse start is the retrash special
it's usually done with AP2, so forcing a god doesn't work as well
also coinpurse is decent into aspho if you already have a good god pool and aren't worried about timer/dying
(timer scary = take earring, dying scary = take tooth/collar/acorn)
unique zephyr
I need to level up skull earring
solar maple
earring is quite strong with SDs
unique zephyr
I’m never scared of timer in asphodel currently tho, mainly tart and elysium
solar maple
I know baj used to take earring for most of most runs back when he was trying zeus 61
just to keep up with timer on that brutal pact
unique zephyr
😮
unique zephyr
That’s insane
solar maple
yeah he never got the win
unique zephyr
The highest heat I’ll push is where I can avoid AP2 probably
solar maple
but he got close a few times
unique zephyr
61 unseeded sounds so hard
solar maple
there is a reason it's never been done haha
unique zephyr
What’s the difference in pact between this and tail’s 60?
mossy zinc
AP2 runs can be a lot of fun.
solar maple
1 more RI, 1 less CP
unique zephyr
One dash 😦
solar maple
zeus can handle the 1 dash much better than rama
especially vs em4
I did RI3 for my zeus 50 heat
unique zephyr
AP2 runs can be a lot of fun.
How so? Genuinely curious as I haven’t ever tried AP2
solar maple
you have to have a different mindset
without AP you are looking for boons
with AP you are just making do with whatever garbage comes your way
so you end up in some very "unique" situations
mossy zinc
AP2 runs are, "Okay, so how do I make this thing work?"
unique zephyr
Is this why retrash’s victory screens look the way they do
solar maple
tbf his win screens look like that with AP1 LOL
unique zephyr
That does sound fun if you are in the mood for it, I can see some weapons handle it a lot better
solar maple
but yes
true fable
daring hedge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/822334846126915614/20210319000346_1.jpg victory title priority didn't disappoint for once
bronze viper
Boonless and hammerless. Nice.
bronze viper
What did you lose
daring hedge
charged skewer
mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/822334846126915614/202...
Congratulations!
bronze viper
I'm exhausted, but I started the Triple Drunken Strike project today. Step 1: Learn Triple Shot at 50. I will continue when I regain consciousness.
daring hedge
i believe in you and this meme
bronze viper
If you get Bad Influence it's like you have an attack boon
mossy zinc
It's not a meme anymore if it works.
patent isle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/822334846126915614/202...
wow.....
bronze viper
Confirmed: Hades spear is hammer reliant. He needed 3
daring hedge
to paraphrase pseudo: "hades spear doesn't scale well with boons"
mossy zinc
Did you see my spreadsheet for Heartbreak Flourish vs Deadly Flourish?
wanton plover
can u link it
mossy zinc
All rarities from Lv.1 to Lv.25 and from +0% bonus damage to +120% bonus damage. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kRqJP2m-6w3WsZVQiCsQtgwbeUmV2lghJVJAfQV_nU4/edit?usp=sharing
wanton plover
thank u
celest grail
do it on a new save file with lvl 1 guan yu lmao
unique zephyr
25% I think?
celest grail
its like 75% less healing and health
solar maple
now where do I find a save with lv 1 GY LOL
solar maple
LOL
unique zephyr
Wait it’s -70% according to the wiki
unique zephyr
I remember it being 75% too
edgy arrow
it’s 70%
unique zephyr
I wish we had a more up to date detailed wiki
edgy arrow
trust me i just unlocked GY on my hell mode save
solar maple
no 5% per level sounds right
celest grail
lol give the save file to pseudo
solar maple
I think it is 70%
celest grail
or have you leveled it already
edgy arrow
it’s definitely 70%
solar maple
nah can't be hell mode
celest grail
oh why not
solar maple
yes
edgy arrow
hell mode lvl1 GY speedruns tho
solar maple
the might legit be the fastest way to clear tart with GY
edgy arrow
could be a thing
solar maple
LOL
celest grail
the might legit be the fastest way to clear tart with GY
plus you can reset in like half a second if you dont get charged skewer lmao
solar maple
lmao
celest grail
argh
edgy arrow
now i guess i gotta do a hell mode lvl1 GY speedrun
unique zephyr
Baby guan yu runs
edgy arrow
i can’t even speedrun GY under normal conditions but this’ll be a free wr
i’m certain no one has done this before
patent isle
Does Kiss of Styx Dark mean I'll get 45% hp back?
unique zephyr
40% if it's the one from the well and not patrocolus
patent isle
oh it's patroclus
if i have 53/240 life right now, i should just off myself for the healing right?
unique zephyr
Patrocolus is 80%
patent isle
asdOUSAJbdsnui
HUH
OH MY GOD
ITS A FLAT 50???? WTF????
THATS SO BROKEN??
i thought it was like +50% of 30% = 45%
shy plinth
Very little in this game is multiplicative
And tbh on stubborn defiance most of the time you'll be popping your SD before going to the next room on purpose
But yeah patty is just straight up 80%
patent isle
YEA OK IM GONNA GO POP MYSELF
oops caps again im sorry
thank u!
im doing the monthly challenge rn
shy plinth
GLHF 🙂
patent isle
ive never played with lc4 before
ty!
haha gaining 200 health in a previously no heal run feels.... insane
shy plinth
The secret is that SD+LC4 is a huge amount of healing overall
In asphodel it's often correct to stand in lava after combat
celest grail
YEA OK IM GONNA GO POP MYSELF
this sounds so wrong
patent isle
wow im so lucky! i have exactly 1 KoS dark left before hades
patent isle
<@!257227111574667264> yes and no. At some point with AP2 UC etc., you're no lon...
thank you!
also thanks for making a great monthly challenge that was fun
vital grove
Oh, Tail barrel rolling
That's interesting.
How new, unexpected and unusual.
Someone do 55 😏
solar maple
I was originally planning on waiting for 56 heat beo
but 55 will have to do
I'll try it this weekend
shy plinth
Ugh I hate my impulse to go full unga bunga in dad phase 2
Just threw away a promising zag sword clear because I turned my brain off
Went from 2 acorn charges to dead in like 15 seconds
gentle cliff
If it's any consolation I do the same thing lol
shy plinth
I don't think it's uncommon tbh
But it sucks because I was almost done with having to play that awful weapon again
shy plinth
Zag sword?
Zag sword is poo
I don't love any of the swords but that particular aspect is gross
gentle cliff
I haven't played with sword aspects much lol
I just know I like Aspect of Hera and Chaos
shy plinth
Well, I can recommend avoiding zag
Unless you are a masochist like me and are going for a 32 heat clear on every aspect
gentle cliff
Why
shy plinth
Only 3 left
gentle cliff
"Max lad" was funnier even if it was a typo since they're going for all aspects, effectively maxing them out
shy plinth
Hah
I mean I dunno there are people in here that have done 24x40 and regularly push 50s
I don't feel like pushing 40+ yet but 32 is comfortable so might as well try it out
All I have left is zag shield, zag sword, and guan yu... gonna be a grind to learn those last two
And I'm not even one of the good players in here lol
gentle cliff
People do 50
gentle cliff
Holy crap
gentle cliff
Good god and I'm over here just trying to clear the epilogue lol
shy plinth
You did find the high heat channel after all 😉
Lot of the folks in here have been playing for months if not years
hearty onyx
Guan Yu at 32 isn't that bad I'd say
shy plinth
Depends how much you get hit
I get hit more than I'd like to
And don't really understand how to do damage with it yet
hearty onyx
Charged Skewer
vital grove
My GY clear was extending and charged iirc
Or maybe a spin hammer actually, but definitely charged
Took a break from Hades but I think I'll finish the 40x24 eventually
honest kernel
I wanna do 40x24 but I feel like im gonna hit a wall at sword and fists
hardy sonnet
i find fists v difficult at higher heat