#h1-high-heat-strategies

1 messages Ā· Page 291 of 1

bright mango
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Because it felt somewhat repetitive

solemn pulsar
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no i mean like

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the seeded/unseeded distinction literally only exists on the spreadsheet + leaderboard

bright mango
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yeah on leaderboards and stuff

shy plinth
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Grinding out the perfect start in tart by dying vs hitting give up is not different

solemn pulsar
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and because you don't record, if you submit a victory screenshot it's considered seeded by default

bright mango
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yeah and I don't really care

solemn pulsar
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exactly

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it's all just personal feeling about stuff

bright mango
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None of my runs are even that high or good that it would make it that far

solemn pulsar
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if you feel good about what you're doing that is literally all that matters

bright mango
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I would feel accomplished if I complete a 50 run

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Even if I start rare deadly strike

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I don't play that long that resettting for good boons feels worthwile

shy plinth
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It's also not like starting with a rare deadly strike is a huge boost to your run

main delta
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^

wintry berry
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Common deadly strike is enough

bright mango
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Lol I just got rare deadly strike first try

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Thats why I have it

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Because I can't properly seed on switch

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I have to keep dying until I get deadly strike

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And i somehow got it first try

shy plinth
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I don't think that's different on PC

main delta
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yea i think its the same

bright mango
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There is a mod

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That lets you choose the boon

shy plinth
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Oh none of the leaderboards or heat boards include that

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Mods bad

solemn pulsar
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mods bad
setting seed with mod then uninstalling mod not bad

shy plinth
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Oh tru

solemn pulsar
shy plinth
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Also hyper delivery mod good but that's neither here nor there lol

bright mango
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I know latt uses a mod for his 50 zag bow to start epic aphro attack

solemn pulsar
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TD should limit to 3 sack anyway

bright mango
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And it lets you choose the boon and stuff

solemn pulsar
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yeah latt just wants to hit 50, not looking to submit anywhere

bright mango
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Same

shy plinth
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Yeah ok so if you just wanna do a time save and work on the execution who cares

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Totally reasonable

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And you shouldn't think any less of it

mossy zinc
bright mango
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I almost did win an unseeded 50 heat but a 3 sack vermin ruined it

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So after that I just decided I didn't want to waste time and just get better at the game

main delta
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what weapon?

bright mango
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hestia

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hestia feels by far the easiest to clear 50

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Since it deals so well with Ap2

main delta
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i have no idea how people say that

bright mango
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it needs literally an attack boon

main delta
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im so bad with hestia LOL

bright mango
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Thats it

main delta
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i always die to timer in ely

bright mango
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After I do 50, I'm just going to rest myself with any heat for a bit

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Something not stressful

mossy zinc
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It's intention is essentially "just" a list of honorable mentions for anyone who can't record their runs for any reason to still get a run on the board and participate. Didn't sit right with me that people did 50+ on Switch or a lower-end computer that couldn't record, and their runs weren't even listed anywhere.

wintry berry
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I don't know how to Hestia at 50 heat, so I did Arthur and Lucy, I like hurting myself

main delta
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arthur 50?

bright mango
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Yeah nephi and peach are really good at arthur

main delta
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that's incredible

shy plinth
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@wintry berry I assume your 50 was DC0?

main delta
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probably my second worst weapon

bright mango
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I haven't tried arthur above 32 yet

wintry berry
bright mango
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But ap2 right?

wintry berry
bright mango
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Since ap2 ezpz with arthur

main delta
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for my arthur 40 i just used lightning rod and ran away

shy plinth
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I suppose AP works fine

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AP2 RI2... yep

bright mango
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Ri2 is free with arthur šŸ™‚

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I'm joking btw

mossy zinc
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There is a very important difference between unseeded and seeded in that seeded will inevitably lead towards people just running "perfect" seeds whereas unseeded will lean towards settling for "good enough" starts. If we didn't distinguish, you'd see a whole lot more AP2 in high heat, and practically every run would be seeded. That's exactly what happened before 1.0 when there was no distinction.

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You'd be shooting yourself in the foot doing unseeded trying to compete with people who start every run with Twin Shot, Double Edge, or whatever hammer or Epic boon they think is optimal.

bright mango
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Like getting an epic boon at the start or something?

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ok yeah you said it

mossy zinc
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Most seeds we used were hammers, but for some aspects Epic boons, yeah.

shy plinth
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Yeah hammers make more sense

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Specifically double edge lol

bright mango
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I mean retrash used dedge in his 57 nemesis but that doesn't make it any more insane

shy plinth
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And it would not be any less impressive if it was seeded

bright mango
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At the end of the day at high heat, it comes down to skill

shy plinth
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Yeah

bright mango
shy plinth
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But also it's better for variety of player experience to just do unseeded etc

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Ah well there you go

bright mango
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Again I would do unseeded but it takes too long

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I don't have that time

mossy zinc
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You also very quickly map out early Tartarus if you replay the same seed. Once you see the second chamber, you'll know what rewards to expect after that even if you don't know the details of RNG manipulation.

shy plinth
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It's mostly like

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If players feel priced into grinding seeds the game is less fun

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It's fine as an option, but without the distinction on the boards, it's a necessity

bright mango
mossy zinc
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That exit gave you Nourished Soul last time, and the rerolls were just as poor? Take the other exit.

patent isle
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is there a way to set seeds?

mossy zinc
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Things like that.

bright mango
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Because I find it boring to play the same things over and over again

mossy zinc
patent isle
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oh, interesting

main delta
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timing's pretty generous too, you can give up during the death animation

bright mango
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All I know in my run right now is chamber 1 deadly strike

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i like to cast or summon randomly just so I don't get bored

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Because I remember trying to get sub 10 nemesis and I had double edge first hammer and found it annoying to see the same enemies in the next door

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So I'm doing the same thing now

patent isle
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im at 12 heat atm but i want to skip ahead to 16 on my good weapons
is there a way to do so and claim the lower heat bounties?

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im guessing there isnt but i thought id ask

wintry berry
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You can do 20 heat and still claim your 12 heat bounties like you've done 12 heat

main delta
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if you skip to 16 it won't give u 13, 14, 15, and 16 all at once tho

icy acorn
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Yeah you can just keep redoing 16

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Until you get all bounties from below 16

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If you pump up heat, in bottom left it still shows which heat you're getting the bounties from

shy plinth
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Yeah the gauge moves one at a time and always gives you the lowest uncleared

bright mango
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I'm going to get a 14 heat bounty whenever I complete 50 heat

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Feels great

shy plinth
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I assume your weapons are maxed anyway

mossy zinc
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When we created the new leaderboard, the community for the most part agreed to not make a distinction between seeded and routed because routing is inevitable when you replay the same seed, the only differences are in how much you map out and how you carefully you manipulate the RNG.

icy acorn
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I got my 3 heat bounties doing my 32 heat run because yes

mossy zinc
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There also still aren't enough seeded submissions for it to be an issue that anyone seems to be overly concerned with.

shy plinth
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I was browsing through some old chat the other day looking for something and see that the seeded/unseeded thing was a hot topic back in the day

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Seems like community has made some progress there, this system feels pretty uncontentious

patent isle
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is there any use for splitting headache or is it just bad

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relative to other duos i mean

mossy zinc
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I think at some point it became just Tailesque and me who did mostly unseeded lol. And quite a few people who seeded all the time ensuring me there was no effective difference. thanthink

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Thankfully I can use my editor powers as much as I like now.

shy plinth
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@patent isle I don't think there are too many times when you're choosing between duos

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But I wouldn't target splitting headache, it's not nothing

patent isle
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i see

mossy zinc
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I like reducing Heat by at least 5 for any submissions that aren't Guan Yu. I think that point is pretty uncontentious. squirtdevious

shy plinth
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At 5 stacks that's +7.5% global crit chance

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So that's twice as good as pressure points

patent isle
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when youre not taking AP

shy plinth
patent isle
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is going for duos still reasonable?

shy plinth
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Sure

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Most builds just need good core boons and good gameplay

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But if you're going beo mirage shot or anything merciful end you kinda need the duo and you'll win if you get it and don't punt

mossy zinc
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He'll probably see it. He reads anything I write.

patent isle
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i see ty

mossy zinc
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I go for Duo Boons all the time.

unique zephyr
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Since I donā€™t know anything about seeding this has been an educational conversation, Iā€™m glad the distinction exists

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@mossy zinc do you go for duos even using Godā€™s Pride? Or do you always run Legacy when looking for Duos?

mossy zinc
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I almost always run God's Legacy.

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And if I don't, I probably have RI1+ and AP anyway.

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But even then, I'd still keep an eye out for any potential Duo Boons.

patent isle
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oh ok cool

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and you do like 40+ heat right

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thats awesome bc duos are my fav i wouldnt want to leave them

unique zephyr
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I like smouldering air a lot when I get it, ironically itā€™s the worst with aphro call despite her being one half the duo

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I need to run more cast builds to see the power of mirage shot

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Iā€™ll go for mirage shot with legacy when I try beo next run

shy plinth
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Let's see if I can make this work

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I need to figure out how to slow it down

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But you can see two hits with mirage shot and the second one crit

unique zephyr
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Crit? I donā€™t see an exclamation mark, I see two purple numbers

shy plinth
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I believe the damage got added together

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Because it was 998 and then 1954 or whatever

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Oh wait never mind I had two cast stones

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I'm dumb lol

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So the cast base damage was 266

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And it was hitting for 950 each? Seems solid

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It's just a 30% base damage increase to an already boosted cast hit

bronze viper
edgy arrow
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stubborn roots gaming

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nah respect tho

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GY hard

mossy zinc
mossy zinc
patent isle
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does curse of drowning still apply knockaway bonus effects?

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like wave pounding for example

shy plinth
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I believe it's a knockback

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Yeah it should be

patent isle
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ok ty

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i didnt think i saw the foes moving away from me but maybe ive been missing it

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appreciated

unique zephyr
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Particularly against bosses

unique zephyr
bronze viper
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Boss do thing: Charm boss. Boss no longer doing thing

unique zephyr
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How long does charm last on bosses?

bronze viper
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Maybe someone here knows the conversion. From game feel it feels like maybe 25% of the written duration. Usually feels under 2 seconds

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Which is a ton. Considering that they're back in a neutral animation and have to start a new attack animation after that.

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For EM3 you can stop Asterius mid-charge or spin to try getting Theseus.

bright mango
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Is the difference between 40 guan yu and 50 guan yu big?

bronze viper
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Lmao what. You've been watching Astaos as much as me

bright mango
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Iā€™ve done 40 but idk about 45

bronze viper
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45 is a lot harder than 40. 50 is considerably harder than 45.

bright mango
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considerably

bronze viper
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But if you can do 40 you can probably do 45. 50 requires RI2 though, which is a different animal

bright mango
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I meant the difference between 40 and 45

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My caveman brain was thinking another thing

bronze viper
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Big thing with 45 is that it's not like overwhelmingly likely (but still feasible) to arrive at a nut build.

bright mango
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I mean technically all you need to win is charged skewer +deadly flourish

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With some helth

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And mad gamer skillz

unique zephyr
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I wonder what Iā€™d make my 45 Hestia pact with my 40 clear as a base, I still need to 32 sword and shield first though

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I barely cleared 40 with Hestia though

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Is 45 where you start taking AP1

bright mango
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Yes

bronze viper
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Typically yes

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You can get away with not but you need to pick probably between AP1, Ri2, TD3, or max JS/CP

bright mango
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I would take ap2 and go shackle start

bronze viper
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Or EM4 if you're Retrash

unique zephyr
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I already have TD3

bright mango
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Without RI youā€™ll be fine

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Ap2 is fine with hestia

unique zephyr
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From my 40

bright mango
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But with RI, ap2 becomes sad

unique zephyr
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But yeah I need to do 32 with all weapons first, have 4 out of 6 done

bronze viper
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Full disclosure, this is going to be your journey. If you want to advance in heat you should be familiar with the relative costs and benefits of each of those pacts I listed. The preference is wildly variant depending on player

bright mango
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^^^

unique zephyr
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I like how the pact system is free form for the most part

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Hades pact of punishment is very well designed for the most part

bright mango
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Imo at 50+ it becomes a lot tighter

unique zephyr
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Iā€™ve only gone up to 40 though

bright mango
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Like there arent many options

bronze viper
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AP2 is... designed

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I like the rest of them though lol

bright mango
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#removeAP2fromthegame

mossy zinc
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Just don't take AP2 if you don't like it. squirtnya

bright mango
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Sure

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But Iā€™m not about to touch em4

mossy zinc
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At least you won't have to compete against an army of AP2 Twin Shot seeds anymore if you want to do unseeded without AP.

bright mango
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I could easily do unseeded without ap2

mossy zinc
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AP2 Twin Shot into Epic Deadly Strike.

bright mango
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As in I wouldnā€™t need to seed

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Pog

edgy arrow
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itā€™s painful in a heat pushing context, but thatā€™s only because weā€™re pushing higher that the game was balanced for

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and because heat increases the difficulty in wildly different ways, that kind of breakdown at 50+ is impossible to avoid

bronze viper
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My primary 3 complaints are allowing rerolls to give the same boon, allowing the single offering to be a replacement, and unsellable boons, which should be sellable for 0g.

edgy arrow
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the only way you could fix is it making AP itā€™s own thing independent of heat, and then people would make the same arguments about RI or whatever

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and then all of a sudden the pact as a concept has been subdivided into nonexistence

edgy arrow
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fair points

bronze viper
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Yeah I don't think AP2 is intrinsically toxic but none of those moments are skill testing or fun.

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They just suck, and they end runs for no reason

edgy arrow
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yeah

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the reroll into the same boon thing is probably the worst of them

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thereā€™s no reason the ā€œat least one different boonā€ rule couldnā€™t apply after AP

bronze viper
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Yeah

patent isle
edgy arrow
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the unsellable boon thing is also just kinda weird considering life affirmation exists

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life affirmation being sellable and nourished soul not just makes zero sense

bronze viper
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Right. I've been put into irritating situations where I have to buy Hermes in Tartarus end shop because the other option is Demeter and I really need to be able to sell a boon.

edgy arrow
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i also donā€™t think nourished soul should even be offered on LC4, but thatā€™s a whole different thing lol

bronze viper
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That's a more complicated question I guess. To be fair Beo's boon offerings are all over the place

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So clearly they don't mind exceptions

edgy arrow
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wym

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beo has different boon offerings?

bronze viper
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Yeah, the Hermes pool is different (bloodstone dislodge), you can't get stuff like Parting Shot

edgy arrow
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oh yeah

bronze viper
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There were others I think

edgy arrow
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i mean, yeah thatā€™s the stuff that doesnā€™t do anything

bronze viper
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Same concept applies though

edgy arrow
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exit wounds is one that i lowkey might take if i could lol

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just for fully loaded highroll chances

bronze viper
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It's pretty inconsistent though. If they do that for Beo why not After Party and Nourishing Soul.

edgy arrow
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yeah exactly

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i presume itā€™s because LC4 comes from the heat system, so extraneous negative consequences are just ā€œpart of the experienceā€ but eh

bronze viper
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Lmao, tbf they fixed it now, but Draining Cutter used to not work with LC. Stygius hammer energy.

edgy arrow
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i think that may have been unintended

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GY and cursed slash worked because of the convoluted way they were coded

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well, maybe itā€™s not convoluted i know nothing about coding lol

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but it seems convoluted to me

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and draining cutter just did normal healing

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anyway, itā€™s not like theyā€™re making balance changes to the heat pact now

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at the end of the day itā€™s probably fine otherwise we wouldnā€™t still be playing haha

mossy zinc
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After haunting my LC4 AP2 runs, she's recently decided to haunt my attempts at getting a fast time with Malphon.

wanton plover
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who

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aph?

bronze viper
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Demeter I assume

mossy zinc
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The only boon she has for Malphon speedruns is Ravenous Will.

edgy arrow
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what about snow burst

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just use the beowulf aspect of malphon

mossy zinc
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Barely does anything.

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I use Demeter Aspect.

edgy arrow
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actually one of the best parts of beo is wanting 2 boons from demeter

mossy zinc
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You don't press Cast a lot with that lol.

edgy arrow
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means sheā€™s actually kinda good

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but yeah obviously rough for demeter

mossy zinc
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Talos is only fast with ME.

bronze viper
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I thought fists had that attack animation cancel thing with casts

edgy arrow
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i presume youā€™re using the pro demeter speedrun build; aphrodite on everything?

mossy zinc
edgy arrow
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iā€™ve heard of that before

bronze viper
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Idk, I heard tell of it multiple times from watching Hermes cup

edgy arrow
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oh like bypassing the sequence cooldown with cast instead of dash or something?

bronze viper
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I figured you could explain it to me lmao

edgy arrow
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or is this for special

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wait no you said attack

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idk

mossy zinc
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Ah. Cast to reset the combo. That works on Stygius, too.

bronze viper
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I have no idea. I know it's brought up when people race with Demeter, and obviously it's not like impossible to do or whatever because they observe them doing it

edgy arrow
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that awkward moment when you say the exact opposite of what you mean

bronze viper
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Happens a lot to me lol

bronze viper
edgy arrow
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i didnā€™t know combo resetting was a thing for stygius

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i try to avoid the combo as much as possible

mossy zinc
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It's not something I actively do tbh, I don't see much use for it.

edgy arrow
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sounds like using dash would be easier most of the time

bronze viper
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Shrug. You'd know better than me lol. Just reporting what I saw people doing.

edgy arrow
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but i guess the cast is free damage sometimes maybe?

mossy zinc
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Most enemies should be dead long before you can hit them with 10 attacks.

edgy arrow
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hermes cup guys should know what theyā€™re talking about in theory

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thatā€™s true

mossy zinc
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Speedrunners all build for ME, I almost never do that.

edgy arrow
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yeah thatā€™s fair

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pretty inconvenient for heat stuff anyway

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well, actually the divine dash part is convenient

mossy zinc
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I just don't actually enjoy ME much, either.

edgy arrow
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same

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i like lightning fists

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which is good enough

bronze viper
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In general I don't really enjoy playstyles that require I blow dashes as attacks.

edgy arrow
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um

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what

mossy zinc
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I think the game would be better off without it, but at least it requires a lot more now.

edgy arrow
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arenā€™t you a bow main

bronze viper
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Nah, I mean stuff like Nemesis and ME

edgy arrow
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i mean

bronze viper
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Ironically I enjoy Splash Dash, but mostly as a means to an end. 1 boon to fix your damage.

edgy arrow
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yeah okay thereā€™s a fair distinction there

mossy zinc
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But build variety for Malphon is even worse now as far as I can tell.

edgy arrow
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donā€™t people use zeus for multi weapon stuff sometimes at least?

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better than just ME

bronze viper
mossy zinc
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ME used to be very popular, but you didn't have to fully commit to it, and Deadly Reversal was a very strong alternative. So you saw a lot more variety.

edgy arrow
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as opposed to the never have any dashes playstyle of nem

mossy zinc
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Now practically every Malphon run is Curse of Agony + Divine Flourish + Divine Dash.

edgy arrow
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thatā€™s true i never understood the deadly reversal nerf

bronze viper
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I could see removing exactly Divine Dash from the req pool

edgy arrow
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yeah maybe

bronze viper
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Because it's kind of nonsense that Divine Dash should be allowed to make your build better in other ways other than by being itself

edgy arrow
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thatā€™s fair

mossy zinc
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I think removing the bonus damage on ME would have been the right choice.

bronze viper
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Yeah that would probably make sense too

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(honestly I think it's stupid that Divine Dash lets your qualify for DDs)

edgy arrow
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they reduced it from 50 to 40 lmao

bronze viper
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It should be swapped for Athena's Aid

bright mango
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Plz donā€™t nerf ME. Itā€™s fun to usedusa

edgy arrow
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literally no reason to have bonus damage

mossy zinc
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Malphon speedrun board is like 95% or more just ME now lol.

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At least the ME runs used to have different flourishes and calls.

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Now it's all Divine Flourish and Hades' Aid.

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The only difference is the cast lol.

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Eris runs have more variety.

solar maple
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poseidon sword is quite varied

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athena cast, zues cast, and ME are all viable

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for speedruns

north dove
wanton plover
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:(

unique zephyr
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At what heat should I consider starting to get good at EM4? I beat EM4 with FO2 but no other heat with Hestia but Iā€™m very bad at the fight overall with no heat other than it

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At what heat do most people start to consider EM4 as necessary

north dove
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57+ so you don't really have to worry about it

unique zephyr
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Is part of the reason people donā€™t take it until very high is TD3? EM4 only nets one heat if you go from TD3 to TD2

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Or is it just way too hard with other enemy affecting heat factors or both

solar maple
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most people don't take em4 because em4 kills them

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retrash is very good at the fight

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so he's the exception

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I get away with it because I run beo with a pact that lets me get a strong build

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(AP1)

unique zephyr
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Hestia can handle approval process if needed to, right?

solar maple
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even then it kills me a decent amount

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yeah hestia is one of the best AP weapons

unique zephyr
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I find it reassuring that even good players find EM4 hard, it isnā€™t just me lol

solar maple
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I still die to em4 a decent amount

wanton plover
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its quite the hecker ngl

solar maple
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and I use (imo) the strongest weapon in the game for it

wanton plover
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what gets me most are the heckin adds

edgy arrow
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yeah even with beo EM4 is kinda hard

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iā€™ve basically stopped heat pushing with beo for the moment; now i just practice EM4

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iā€™ll go back to 50+ when i can do it hitless probably

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with charged shot as well, ideally

solar maple
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yeah throwing a pretty promising 56 heat run in em4 was painful

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and I really need to learn charged shot if I want to go higher than that

edgy arrow
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the other thing that randomly messes me up with charged shot is power couple for some reason

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iā€™ve lost 2 runs to them because of it

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seems like it shouldnā€™t be that hard idk lol

solar maple
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I'm just bad with charged shot in general lol

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I should do some seeded charged shot starts at 50 to practice

edgy arrow
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same

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i need to make an EM4 practice save with charged shot mostly

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iā€™m sure if i bang my head against it enough itā€™ll be fine

solar maple
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you need to approach the fight very differently I think

edgy arrow
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for sure

solar maple
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I also think your anvil strat is funny

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and with beo you could maybe just avoid second hammer lol

edgy arrow
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i almost got a 53 clear with that!

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then i messed up anyway lol

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oh yeah true

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anvil strat mk2

solar maple
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what are the odds of even getting anvil though?

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50/50 with third hermes?

edgy arrow
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i feel like itā€™s more than 50/50

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but idk i buy it so rarely i donā€™t pay that much attention

solar maple
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I know it's the same slot as 3rd hermes

edgy arrow
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yeah

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it might just be 50/50 iā€™m not sure

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that probably makes more sense, i just feel like i see anvils a lot

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might be confirmation bias idk

unique zephyr
#

Pseudo while youā€™re here whatā€™s the timing for releasing casts during the bull rush

#

On skelly I donā€™t always put them all into him

#

Or is it a bigger explosion with an actual cast and they donā€™t all have to lodge

#

For 32 heat for beo would flood flare start and try to get mirage shot be good

#

And would running Godā€™s legacy hurt my cast or other tools too much? I hear beo needs lots of boons what does it need?

#

Hope these arenā€™t stupid beo questions, @solar maple

#

Also what are good hammers

#

I still need to do shield and sword for my 32

true fable
#

for releasing casts during bull rush any time in the middle should count

unique zephyr
#

Beo seems like it could be the most fun

true fable
#

flood flare start into arty force for mirage should be fine

unique zephyr
#

I meant loading it during rush

true fable
#

the casts cannot lodge

#

yes

edgy arrow
#

i run godā€™s legacy for beo

true fable
#

anytime while youre rushing should be fine

#

god's legacy is good

edgy arrow
#

i run legacy even at 50 lol

true fable
#

poms matter more than beginning rarity

edgy arrow
#

^

true fable
#

key boons are mirage shot, snow burst and wave pounding

#

if youre running flood flare

#

force mirage > snow burst

solar maple
#

glad to see snow burst represented

#

and yes that is good

true fable
#

i think its quite good for speed now too

#

its just quite a lot of damage

solar maple
#

snow burst is so good

edgy arrow
#

re: hammers

charged shot, ferocious guard, sudden rush, breaching rush are the good ones

#

in that order imo

true fable
#

i think sudden and breaching > ferocious

#

imo

solar maple
#

hammers really aren't that important

#

I love breaching ye

true fable
#

charged shot is really good for pace, but tough for safety

edgy arrow
#

ferocious makes my cast do more damage

#

hmm

true fable
#

if i have charged shot it will usually save me 30s-1min on timer per biome

edgy arrow
#

youā€™re prolly right tho

true fable
#

but it also means im more likely to die

solar maple
#

ferocious is very good too

true fable
#

yeah it's p good

edgy arrow
#

i donā€™t really wanna argue with Bright and Pseudo about beo haha

solar maple
#

it has pretty high uptime

edgy arrow
#

yeah

true fable
#

breaching lets you get your cast dmg to where it needs to go though

solar maple
#

I think most of the good hammers are pretty close

true fable
#

enemies' juicy juicy health bars

edgy arrow
#

true

solar maple
#

breaching is +200 damage per rush vs armor

edgy arrow
#

theyā€™re all pretty good anyway

true fable
#

each good hammer has its ups

#

yeah

solar maple
#

breaching in annoying BP2 rooms does thousands of damage

#

not an exaggeration

true fable
#

yee

edgy arrow
#

iā€™d believe it

true fable
#

i've been underrating it for a while

edgy arrow
#

itā€™s a lot

#

my main issue is EM4 tho and it barely helps there

#

but itā€™s still very good

solar maple
#

it's still dece in em4 fight

#

for adds

edgy arrow
#

for sure

solar maple
#

not as good as the others though yeah

#

wallop is pretty good in early tart

#

but later it is meh

edgy arrow
#

oh yeah true

#

wallop is solid B tier

#

above all the useless special hammers

solar maple
#

but yeah for SDs with 32-50 heat beo

edgy arrow
#

honestly tho one of the main reasons i like beo is how little it needs about hammers

solar maple
#

go pos cast -> arty attack, and look for athena for survivability and dem for damage (and survivability lol)

unique zephyr
#

Good to know, what I meant was sometimes I donā€™t release all my casts when bull rushing at skelly

#

Like some get stuck in shield

#

Is that fine?

#

And ah ok, Iā€™ll do mirage shot with pos cast

solar maple
#

that probably means you are loading them too late

edgy arrow
#

oh youā€™re accidentally adding them post rush

#

yeah

#

mostly you donā€™t need to load all your casts tho

unique zephyr
#

Oooh ok good to know thatā€™s what Iā€™m doing

edgy arrow
#

itā€™s only useful for bosses and some elites

unique zephyr
#

Should I just load one or two for weaker enemies

edgy arrow
#

a dragon rush with all casts loaded does a lot of damage with a good build

#

yeah exactly

unique zephyr
#

Iā€™m resting now because of health but looking forward to trying beo tomorrow, standard pact for 32 works fine right? I donā€™t run CF

#

I can post my standard pact if you want

#

Itā€™s just standard stubborn defiance with FO2 and TD3

solar maple
#

yeah that is good for beo

patent isle
#

does taking black shawl with parting shot work :o

edgy arrow
#

yeah sounds good

#

beo smashes TD3 when you get the hang of it

true fable
#

dont run any CF DC AP or RI

edgy arrow
#

^

solar maple
#

^^

unique zephyr
#

I donā€™t use any of those

#

Iā€™ve only run dc on fists, it worked out fine for fists

#

AP and RI i never run at 32, I avoided them for Hestia 40

solar maple
#

yeah those are terrible

#

never take RI

#

it's a scam

edgy arrow
#

i ran AP0 on my eris 45 yesterday lol

#

felt weird at that heat

#

but also good

short sedge
#

AP would hurt so much less if you couldnt see what boons were getting crossed out

#

Especially since they start not crossed out only to immediately steal your hopes and dreams

#

Sadistic really

solar maple
#

anyone else click on the crossed out duo at least 5 times every time

#

it will work someday

sweet merlin
#

just wondering, so do you guys purposesly (die) on some encounters so that your HP is higher when you fight against the Theseus boss? (let's say i'm left with like 10 hp left)

edgy arrow
#

yep

#

absolutely

#

ideally with SD you should die every room if you have less than 30% health, but sometimes it isnā€™t worth it

sweet merlin
#

what's the chamber threshold again for each boss?

edgy arrow
#

12, 22, 34

#

those are the last encounter chambers in each zone

#

so the one after will be a free room (end shop or free boon) and then boss

shy plinth
#

Also chaos in those rooms makes things weird

edgy arrow
#

yeah if take a chaos in room twelve it will effectively add one to your chamber #

shy plinth
#

You can't chaos 34 I think

#

Yeah def 12

edgy arrow
#

so now last encounter in asphodel will be 23

#

something to watch out for

solar maple
#

my nem sword pb has c35 patty lol

#

the legendary 35 skip

shy plinth
#

Wowow

edgy arrow
#

nice lmao

shy plinth
#

There should be an achievement

solar maple
#

took extra chaos in tart for +attack damage

sweet merlin
#

okay i'm at Styx now, so hopefully get this 32 heat run

shy plinth
#

GLHF

edgy arrow
#

do it

shy plinth
#

Don't let dad get in your head

#

You can get em

sweet merlin
#

which keepsakes should i use

edgy arrow
#

dad more like dead

sweet merlin
#

currently just brought Pom Bloosom

shy plinth
#

Whatever you normally do should be fine, acorn is pretty meta at 32

#

Unless you're on em4 for some reason

edgy arrow
#

for styx? acorn

#

yeah EM4 is a bit more complicated

#

meta is split between acorn/tooth/spearpoint

sweet merlin
#

and purge: unealthy fixation legendary, hunter's mark epic, or electric shot epic

solar maple
#

yeah defense vs dad is nice

sweet merlin
#

damn hard to choose

#

not EM4 hehe didnt use that one

shy plinth
#

No idea what your build is but trust yourself

#

If you got this far you've been making good calls

#

Just keep doing that

edgy arrow
#

unhealthy fixation is a funny boon

#

10/10 for meme

sweet merlin
#

If I choose one of the pact that disallow the 3 thing from the darkness, does that jnclude the 2 status effect thing

#

If yes then i would rather purge hunter mark

shy plinth
#

I don't really understand

#

I assume you are not on routine inspection 4

edgy arrow
#

RI1 wonā€™t disable privileged status no

sweet merlin
#

Routine inspection 1

edgy arrow
#

RI2 will

shy plinth
#

Are we PS gaming

#

RI1 won't touch your damage boost

sweet merlin
#

Mmm, then cast will probably be the only one worth to purge

true fable
#

you can chaos 34

#

like a chaos extension

shy plinth
#

But chaos can't naturally spawn there right

#

It stops after... 29?

true fable
#

i dont think so

#

it can naturally generate im p sure

shy gulch
#

im fairly certain ive seen chaos's that late

shy plinth
#

Wiki says can't spawn less than every 8 chambers and doesn't spawn naturally after 6th chamber of elysium

#

So yeah 29

true fable
#

interesting

shy plinth
#

Assuming wiki is correct which is not always true

true fable
#

29 isnt the 6th chamber of elysium is it?

shy plinth
#

It's the 7th

true fable
#

no way

shy plinth
#

Elysium ends on 24 right

edgy arrow
#

can you ixion it at 34 tho?

shy plinth
#

Er Asphodel

true fable
#

23 is aspho endshop im p sure

shy plinth
#

Yeah

true fable
#

and then 24 is lernie, 25 is interbiome

shy plinth
#

25 26 27 28 29 30 okay you're right

#

So you can't see Chaos after 31

true fable
#

i dont trust wiki anymore

#

i'll ask around

edgy arrow
#

idk if thatā€™s true

#

iā€™m not sure

shy plinth
#

Where's Ello

#

Ello knows

true fable
#

i'll redeem it next ello stream lol

sweet merlin
#

sorry just to reconfirm, in Styx what is considered an encounter, is it 1 dungeon (until i get the boon) or is it per room

honest kernel
#

every small room

#

unless its about butterfly and lambent plume

sweet merlin
#

so effectively i can keep dying each small room and it refreshes when i go to the next small room?

honest kernel
#

yes

shy plinth
#

If you look in the bottom left and you see an infinity you're safe

#

And every door it comes back

edgy arrow
#

if you lose your SD youā€™ll be cured of poison and all poison on the ground will be removed

sweet merlin
#

ah okay, since it's my first time in Styx with SD and don't want to f up

edgy arrow
#

so you can also use it strategically

honest kernel
#

I never noticed that it removes all ground poison

#

very cool

edgy arrow
#

yeah itā€™s super useful

#

lets you just unga bunga big rat miniboss

shy plinth
#

I feel like I would die in asphodel if I had to go back to DDs

#

SD feels so much more comfortable for room clear

edgy arrow
#

SD is just a nicer playstyle imo

#

each room is self contained

shy plinth
#

It took me a while to get used to and now I don't think I could go back

sweet merlin
#

okay guys 32 heat VS Hades now, hopefully can win this!

edgy arrow
#

if i screw up in tartarus it isnā€™t going to bite me in elysium

shy plinth
#

GLHF šŸ™‚

honest kernel
#

gl

sweet merlin
#

and for Hade, when he gets an extra life, its not a new encounter right

shy plinth
#

No

sweet merlin
#

so i only get 1 revive?

edgy arrow
#

yeah

shy plinth
#

You have what you see when you enter the arena

edgy arrow
#

good luck

shy plinth
#

And yeah SD is kind of like you have 30% of your max health and also armor equal to 30% of your max health each room

sweet merlin
#

should i choose: wave of despair, rare empty inside or epic dying lament

shy plinth
#

Your decision making has been good this far!

#

Believe in yourself

#

We don't know what your build is, you'll be fine

short sedge
#

Dying lament is really nice for flamewheels/rats no matter the build though

shy plinth
#

This is for hades fight

#

From final shop

honest kernel
#

I was thinking wtf those edgy boon names are and then I remembered they are aphro's AphroditeSticker

short sedge
#

Ah

#

In that case none of them are great lmao

honest kernel
#

empty inside sounds good

shy plinth
#

My instinct would be empty inside and it is probably irrelevant

#

Because yeah they're all not good

short sedge
#

Empty inside can also be useless if aphro is on attack

edgy arrow
#

empty inside can sometimes be good

short sedge
#

Yeah it depends how you are applying wrak

#

And also what duos you may have

edgy arrow
#

yeah

short sedge
#

But like aphro on eris attack

#

No use imo

#

In that case id go dying lament for the marginal damage

edgy arrow
#

dying lament is pretty meh for just the hades fight

#

but before hades yeah itā€™s decent

short sedge
#

Oops i meant wave of despair

edgy arrow
#

oh fair

#

yeah iā€™d go the same

#

i probably wouldnā€™t be running aphro attack on eris tho lol

short sedge
#

Yeah zeus does exist lmao

edgy arrow
#

but same applies to aphro hestia etc.

#

indeed

short sedge
#

I like aphro on hestia for beeg numbers with pp and mark. But usually i got arty

edgy arrow
#

both pretty good

sweet merlin
#

DAMN i died

short sedge
#

Oof

edgy arrow
#

oof

short sedge
#

It happens

sweet merlin
#

the blue health thing on the homing skull

edgy arrow
#

thatā€™s rough, but if you can get to hades first try you can do this for sure

sweet merlin
#

is very difficult

edgy arrow
#

yeah that can be rough

#

what aspect were you using?

sweet merlin
#

chiron

#

as in i dont have the time to stay stationary and attack

edgy arrow
#

for chiron i wouldnā€™t take DC at 32

#

itā€™s avoidable, and more annoying than it looks

sweet merlin
#

but then what should I increase? HL and JR?

edgy arrow
#

i think you also mentioned RI1 earlier, which is also very avoidable at 32

#

JR is kinda annoying on chiron

#

HL is workable

shy plinth
#

What's your pact at

edgy arrow
#

thereā€™s a heat guide for 32 in the pins if you havenā€™t seen it yet

short sedge
#

JR?

#

Jury Rummons?

edgy arrow
#

oh lol

shy plinth
#

Mmm rum

edgy arrow
#

*JS

sweet merlin
#

yeah i was seeing the guide hence DC2

short sedge
#

I assumed it was a typo but then when you both said it i went and googled ā€œpact of punishmentā€ i was like wtf have i been missing all this time

sweet merlin
#

mm EM3 instead maybe ?

edgy arrow
#

yeah DC2 is free (relatively) for eris, thatā€™s why itā€™s there

shy plinth
#

You... weren't on EM3

#

?

edgy arrow
#

for chiron i would avoid it

short sedge
#

What are you running now em2?

edgy arrow
#

yeah do EM3

shy plinth
#

Okay pls post your pact

sweet merlin
#

i was on EM 2 just now haha

shy plinth
#

I feel like there are definitely opportunities here

short sedge
#

Definitely want em3 id say

sweet merlin
#

okay now: HL -1, LC Maxed, CF Maxed, JR1, EM3 (just change now), CP1, BP 1, MM, UC, FO1, HS, Tight Deadline 7 minutes

shy plinth
#

Ah I see

sweet merlin
#

-1 for heat 32 now

shy plinth
#

And you had RI on before?

#

This is very impressive lol

#

I would not have gotten anywhere near hades with that I don't think

sweet merlin
#

previous one I had: RI1, EM2, DC2

honest kernel
#

its not that bad lol

#

but easier without for sure

shy plinth
#

HS is bad if you are clumsy like me

#

HL1 LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3 is the pact I use at 32 for basically everything

#

But there are def ways to shift around some points of heat there

sweet merlin
#

on all my lower heat runs, I keep dying to Hades 2x though, (when i got 20 heat), so this Hades part is definitely a problem

shy plinth
#

It's hard, takes practice

edgy arrow
#

yeah hat's pact is a really good place to start

#

if you want to avoid TD3 you can take a little JS and/or up HL

shy plinth
#

Once I got used to FO2 it was really straightforward

#

Have cleared 19 aspects on it

#

Yeah JS could work, DC is less punishing on some weapons

edgy arrow
#

oh you can also add CF into that

#

since this isn't beo lol

#

if you want

shy plinth
#

CF0 4 lyfe

sweet merlin
#

TD3 how could this work? I keep getting timed out if I do more than 2 rooms in the Styx area

edgy arrow
shy plinth
#

If you are used to DC2 CP1 JS1 that's why

#

Removing all of those will save you multiple minutes

edgy arrow
#

^

honest kernel
#

TD3 isnt super easy u need to get used to go fast

edgy arrow
#

i assume you were doing arty chiron?

shy plinth
#

Yeah TD3 isn't free of course

honest kernel
#

but once you got that down its fine

short sedge
#

5 sack energy

shy plinth
#

FO2 makes the TD3 part less punishing

#

Since the enemies spawn in so much faster

#

But FO2 is punishing because it's FO2

short sedge
#

I dont td3 because rng would make me rage lol

edgy arrow
#

sometimes FO2 actually means you take longer for high heat

#

since you gotta play it safe somtimes

sweet merlin
edgy arrow
#

but yeah in theory

shy plinth
#

Yeah

edgy arrow
shy plinth
#

I mean at 32 on HL1 it's pretty hard for a room to just end you

edgy arrow
#

yeah that's a classic

shy plinth
#

It's just bosses that you gotta play clean

edgy arrow
#

you can also do hangover chiron if you want, which has different pact stuff

#

like, DC goes back on the table, JS is easier etc.

shy plinth
#

JS still stinky on Chiron tho

edgy arrow
#

but i'd probably recommend arty chiron to start with

sweet merlin
#

i did the staple Aphro Atk, Deadly Special

edgy arrow
#

yeah even for dio chiron i'd prolly still avoid JS at 32

#

unless you're doing TD2 ofc, which is valid

shy plinth
#

Yeah and you can totally do TD2

sweet merlin
#

so i dont need to take Aphro Atk, and try Dio Atk then?

shy plinth
#

They're two different builds

#

The real trick to 32 is to keep trying

#

Play what feels comfortable, if it becomes frustrating don't grind it out

sweet merlin
#

my struggle if at TD2 is the time

shy plinth
#

Take a breather and don't do it because you feel like you need to clear

#

But if you made it to Hades you can def do it

edgy arrow
sweet merlin
#

i'll try again now, if I fail im gonna do a couple Zagreus Bow speedruns

shy plinth
#

Zag bow is fun

edgy arrow
#

then you pick up arty or aphro on attack, and try to get doom

sweet merlin
#

at least get the timing and movement of enemies

edgy arrow
#

aiming for one/two/all three of the hangover duos

shy plinth
#

Oh also not sure what your mirror is at

#

I'd recommend family favorite over priv status

sweet merlin
#

okay, if i want to focus back on Special Arty, then whats the good atk and cast

shy plinth
#

I know you mentioned PS before

sweet merlin
shy plinth
#

Family favorite is on instantly in tartarus

#

And you never have to work to get the extra 25% damage

edgy arrow
#

cast is kind of whatever

shy plinth
#

Just picking up one boon in room 1 in tart gives you +5% global damage

edgy arrow
#

ideally you want one that sticks, so you can make use of boiling blood

sweet merlin
#

should I go the Aphrodite Keepsake on 2nd (asmodel map?)

edgy arrow
#

yep, that's generally recommended

#

you can force athena instead tho if you want divine dash

sweet merlin
#

so in this case try to focus on more variety of God boons than on certain ones?

shy plinth
#

Take family favorite and play like normal

#

And after asphodel you just always have +25% damage

edgy arrow
#

you'll basically get 5 gods every single time you play no matter what you do

shy plinth
#

4 base gods+hermes

#

It is completely free

edgy arrow
#

technically you can get more, but its not worth putting effort into

#

just the flat +25% damage that isn't dependent status effects is really good

sweet merlin
#

just to check my mirror: Shadow Presence, Dark Regen, SD, GR, Boiling Blood, Infernal Soul, DP, Thick Skin, Family, Dark Foresight, God's legacy, Fated Persuason

shy plinth
#

Reasonable, I think the meta choice right now is Pride over Legacy

#

But build dependent if you're playing a cast weapon or targeting ME

edgy arrow
#

god's legacy for heart rend is reasonable here

shy plinth
#

Yeah seems fine

sweet merlin
#

heart rend is what and what again

edgy arrow
#

pride might be better tho idk

shy plinth
#

Artemis and Aph

#

You need a weak effect and a critical effect

edgy arrow
#

but yeah that mirror looks good

shy plinth
#

So artemis on anything but dash and aphrodite on any core boon slot, though I'd imagine you would normally keepsake artemis special and then push for aph attack

#

And the most important thing to do is find Conc Volley anyway

short sedge
#

Oh family favorites caps at 25%? That makes a ton of sense i was confused as to how it wasnā€™t strictly better than priv status due to 8 boon being easy to get

shy plinth
#

It doesn't cap

#

It soft caps

short sedge
#

What do you mean?

edgy arrow
shy plinth
#

It counts the number of gods in your pool

#

Yeah

#

So it's usually 4+hermes

short sedge
#

Oh really? I guess i just misread it lmao

shy plinth
#

If you keepsake more you get extra damage

sweet merlin
#

okay, gonna gym first to clear my head then try again

shy plinth
#

But it's not worth it generally

#

The important part is that you never have to worry about maintaining uptime to get free extra damage

#

And the boosts are active immediately in tartarus when you need them most

short sedge
#

Yeah for sure

#

Speaking of which how does the hunters mark status effect work exactly? When i have hangover on a marked foe they seem to often take crits for multiple ticks in a row

#

Does it apply the mark to the entire stack or what

sweet merlin
#

Anyone have a ballpark # on what is the optimal time that I need to spend on Tartarus , Asmodel, etc2

edgy arrow
#

i mean

#

are you speedrunning?

sweet merlin
#

For TD3

edgy arrow
#

if so, the optimal time is "faster than before"

#

if its just TD3, the optimal time is not dying to the timer

sweet merlin
#

I mean, sometimes its imposible to start at the 3rd map with just 5 mins so i will just reset at that rate

edgy arrow
#

elysium is working in 5, but yeah you generally need good room rng

shy plinth
#

I try to target 4 minutes per floor

edgy arrow
#

at least if you're running JS and stuff

shy plinth
#

If I'm under that I'm happy

edgy arrow
#

its really complicated by other heat modifiers

solar maple
#

I just try to clear tart/Elysium, and bank a few mins in asphodel

celest grail
#

I just use eris for high heat and pretend im speedrunning

#

enemies that are dead cant hurt you thanthink

shy plinth
#

Didn't you have a sub 8 this week

#

That counts as speedrunning

celest grail
#

I had two sub 8s

#

Yes

#

And a recent pb

shy plinth
#

Yeah that's not pretending lol

edgy arrow
#

generally a run is bad if i have less than a minute banked out of aspho

#

on a good run i'll bank 2-3

celest grail
#

im saying for high heat lol

solar maple
#

I'm trying some 40 heat speedruns rn

celest grail
#

Instead of actually playing safe

edgy arrow
#

you don't need to bank into styx if you get a 2 sac

celest grail
#

I just speedrun

solar maple
#

I had one absolutely blessed run where I played terrible

edgy arrow
#

sometimes you need extra time if you get screwed by sack rng tho

shy plinth
#

No no this channel is hades Unga Bunga strats

solar maple
#

Got vermin 3 sacked and still sub 10

edgy arrow
#

what pact are you using?

solar maple
#

Yeah

celest grail
#

Also serious question, i cant seem to avoid attacking before bullrushing on beo

edgy arrow
#

EM4 or no?

celest grail
#

Is there any way to avoid this

solar maple
#

Ap1 cf1 em3

celest grail
#

im on kbm, if that matters

edgy arrow
#

it is unavoidable

solar maple
#

You always attack before bull rush

edgy arrow
#

you attack then start charging

celest grail
#

shucks

#

Beo feels weird for me because of that

edgy arrow
#

that's why we generally dash-strike into bull rush

celest grail
#

Ah well, ill still try it

edgy arrow
#

that's the same with all shields?

edgy arrow
celest grail
#

Well i basically never bull rush with other shield's

#

Shields

edgy arrow
#

CF ow

#

makes sense tho

celest grail
#

is there any VOD i can watch of decent beo play

#

Wanna learn the weapon

edgy arrow
#

you... don't bull rush... with shields?

edgy arrow
celest grail
#

Yes :)

solar maple
#

Speedrun dot com has good vids

edgy arrow
#

^

celest grail
#

Gotcha gotcha

solar maple
#

My 54 heat clear was very clean iirc

edgy arrow
#

yeah pseudo's 54 is really good

#

don't look at retrash's run he used charged flight like a traitor

solar maple
#

I dont think I lost SD until after lernie

celest grail
#

charged flight beo ew

edgy arrow
#

ikr

#

charged flight is banned here

solar maple
#

True

solar maple
#

LOL I just had ap1 cross out 5 duos in a row

celest grail
#

ap is a fun and interesting pact of punishment

true fable
#

bull rushing is kind of useless on zag/zeus for speed so i can see that

#

for beo it's both good DPS and safe

vital grove
#

Rush good on Zeus

#

Actively crap on Zag

bronze viper
# sweet merlin why?

Even on Hangover Chiron, provided that you have DCO (and at 32 you absolute should), if you get something like Twin Shot as a hammer, you want a good damage boon on your attack. With TD3, you don't have the luxury to keep it naked forever waiting for Aphro for the duo. Sometimes Artemis will come up. And in those instances, Privileged Status won't do anything. Doom attack, which is also good on Hangover Chiron, only affects them for 1.1 seconds, not including the delay for the arrows to hit them, and you really don't want to be continuously hitting the same enemy.

Even with Aphro, the literal best case scenario, PS will not affect the initial attack arrow hit, and it will not affect the last tick or two of Hangover.

PS is just a trap. A very, very, very popular trap.

edgy arrow
#

aphro attack hangover chiron with empty inside is probably the best case scenario for PS, and even there yeah its dubious

#

the other big thing is that even if you get aphro PS does absolutely nothing until then

#

whereas FF is giving you bonus damage from chamber 1

bright mango
#

Family favorites is just more consistent

bronze viper
#

Also, lmao there are the build... allowances people make to make PS work. "Easy PS" is a common phrase in other channels here.

gaunt fiber
#

:)

bright mango
#

"easy"

edgy arrow
#

easy PS is my favourite lie catchphrase

bright mango
#

Is it the same thing as "easy" heat?

bronze viper
#

Drunken Dash, Mistral Dash, Passion Dash are among the most offensive. Some more aspect specific, like Aphro special on Zag bow, or a status special on Stygius

bright mango
#

I can agree that on chiron with low tolerance, it is sorta an easy PS, but it takes a while for the damage to come

edgy arrow
#

when you bend your build so far over backwards chasing PS that you end up with mistral dash on purpose something has gone horribly wrong

gaunt fiber
#

The fantastic offensive power of Mistral Dash

#

Behold

edgy arrow
#

i'm trying my best to behold it, i really am

#

should i be using a microscope or something

gaunt fiber
#

Would help a lot

bright mango
#

Hey I don't find mistral dash that bad

#

The chill is really nice for bosses

bronze viper
#

I think you're getting distracted by the admittedly gorgeous particle effects

gaunt fiber
#

if you're a clown who dashes in like me yeah

edgy arrow
#

yeah that's a good point ledger

#

it looks pretty

bronze viper
#

"Look how chilled my enemies look. They're covered in sparkles."

gaunt fiber
#

I prefer Passion Dash

#

sound effect too

edgy arrow
#

they're both not bad

#

boons based on aesthetics only tier list when

bronze viper
#

Dying Lament sound design is chef's kiss

edgy arrow
#

it needs to be unlabeled ofc, so that people think its a real tier list

bronze viper
#

LOL

gaunt fiber
#

lmao

edgy arrow
#

"but the tier list said use divine strike on lucy"

mossy zinc
#

Passion Dash is the best dash.

sullen minnow
#

Yā€™all Iā€™m hitting a wall. I could officially use some advice or at least a sounding board. Iā€™m trying to get 40 zag bow done and Iā€™m struggling in different places with a variety of heat pacts. Tried a few different ways of building too, aphro start, arty start, hammer start etc, but all with mixed results. I either get checked in asphodel running out of road to maneuver in, or I make it to Dad and get rocked by HL5. My pacts follow:

HL5, LC4, CF2, JS2, EM3, BP2, MM1, UC1, FO2, TD3

Any advice on pacts, builds or play would be helpful. Iā€™m getting frustrated, which usually means I need to take a step back and think on what Iā€™m doing. Got 40 done with Shield and Gun easy enough, but Iā€™m trying to do bow 40 with Zag like a Big Boy and itā€™s been agonizing

bright mango
#

If you are having trouble with that pact you can probably get away with AP1 on zag bow

sullen minnow
#

Thatā€™s my current pact setup. Iā€™ve tried mixing heats in different places like EM4 and RI2/AP2 to get FO2 off, but to mixed results

#

hmmmmm maybe thatā€™s something I need to look at. I usually keep AP to 0 or 2

bright mango
#

AP1 isn't that bad

#

It sucks sometimes

#

but its not terrible imo

bronze viper
#

Okay, well, first off EM4 is poo lol. I think your pact is fine. AP1 could replace JS2 or CF2 or something

sullen minnow
#

Pride or legacy šŸ¤”

bronze viper
#

But that's preference

#

Pride

sullen minnow
#

Okie doke. Is heart rend worth hard-committing to?

bright mango
#

i dont think so

wintry berry
#

No

sullen minnow
#

Iā€™ve seen decent results putting more conventional curses like ares or zeus on special

bronze viper
#

I like Artemis start, either for Deadly Strike or Hunter Dash (preferably both)

sullen minnow
#

Ares in particular feels like a good button in a relatively worthless special slot

bronze viper
#

I don't press special on Zag bow personally

wintry berry
#

You don't look for special

bright mango
#

Yeah same

sullen minnow
#

I didnā€™t really either until this

bronze viper
#

Unless I need to clear projectiles from Seeker Witches or something

sullen minnow
#

Iā€™m finding myself needing all the output I can get. Iā€™m officially in the ā€œthrow out the book and try new thingsā€ stage of trying to approach this lol

honest kernel
#

my recent 40 zag bow looked like this

wintry berry
#

An attack boon and a good dash is your core build

honest kernel
sullen minnow
#

But good to hear I donā€™t need to chase heart rend like a mad man

#

That reassures me

#

Thank you toffel

honest kernel
#

no duos yeah

bronze viper
#

You have 5 good hammers. My preference is in order: Twin, Triple, Explosive, Perfect, Point Blank. They're all great though.

honest kernel
#

I had some good athena boons and then it got rolling

sullen minnow
#

I find myself seeding explosive for most of these

bright mango
#

Explosive?

bronze viper
#

Yeah that's fine. As long as you have Deadly STrike

bright mango
#

i would think twin shot is better

sullen minnow
#

Alright, that looks pretty similar to mine toffel. I just need to have faith, thank you

honest kernel
#

oh yeah also if u look at my time TD3 should have been ez I was too scared to take it tho

sullen minnow
bronze viper
#

Zag bow isn't a flashy weapon. It's a very "git gud" playstyle lol. You aren't given much opportunity for error

sullen minnow
#

Learning to airburst large-base damage shots around corners has been a big deal for me with it

#

I was a twin Stan too until I started screwing with it

bright mango
#

I also like triple

bronze viper
#

Oh I forgot Flurry Shot. I like it more than Perfect or Point Blank, less than or equal to Explosive

sullen minnow
bright mango
#

I like twin + flurry

sullen minnow
#

I want to like flurry so bad but it feels like it compromises your mobility so severely on fo2 šŸ˜­

#

To get real dps out of it you need to take 3 or 4 shots standing still

bronze viper
#

It's kind of the opposite honestly. You can shoot and move so quickly until you find a safe place to pewpew

#

You can also stun lock enemies

#

Which is huge

sullen minnow
#

True

#

Stunlock is nice

honest kernel
#

flurry always throws me off bc I'm os used to spam dash strike but it seems good for sure

sullen minnow
#

Ima just stop whining and keep playing, how bout that

#

I love flurry but I canā€™t make it work at 40

#

Feels like I have to spend so much time stationary to get the equivalent damage of a single explosive shot

honest kernel
#

you'll get there šŸ‘Œ

sullen minnow
#

But flurryā€™s DPS goes way, way up the longer you stand there

bronze viper
#

For secondary boons your "duos" are things like Hunter's Mark and Battle Rage.

shy plinth
#

Not that you can't make it work, just that it hasn't worked yet

sullen minnow
#

Yes sir ^^^^ damn right

#

Thank you.

shy plinth
#

It does sound like you're working on learning explosive shot more than zag bow atm

#

And that's not bad but may build muscle memory you have to undo

sullen minnow
#

I just find it such a huge compliment to safety

shy plinth
#

It's a great hammer

sullen minnow
#

Itā€™s more a 40 zag bow thing for me than anything

#

If I was lower I would be much more diverse about my selections

#

Explosive just seems to strike the best balance of huge damage without compromising range like twin shot or demanding positioning or execution like point blank and perfect shot

#

For me right now, at least. But I must continue to improve!

spice lava
#

It's fine, high heat is all about whining until it works

eternal hare
#

you can only become a better player by exposing yourself to a greater variety of hammers!

wintry berry
#

cursed sword arthur dusa

mossy zinc
#

I either get checked in asphodel running out of road to maneuver in, or I make it to Dad and get rocked by HL5
@sullen minnow practice the Hades fight, and practice Asphodel. I don't think you need to make any changes to your pact or that it would have a big effect if you did. What's the strategy for your build?