The 50+ heat floor is still "experimental", I think we are not enough players and we don't have enough datas to "establish" anything like the best ways to clear 50 heat
#h1-high-heat-strategies
spice lava
except the beowulf legion
Oh and if you start trying 50 heat runs, you need to believe in you
a lot
spice lava
No but you are numerous to study the aspect
true fable
no high heat is really that optimized
exhibit A: the one week everyone did shackle
and then dropped it promptly a week later
spice lava
AP2 doesn't help having optimized ways to win
I thought anvil was an optimized way to clear 60
true fable
well what we find out is that the "optimized" way to win on AP2 is to be adaptable or reset
spice lava
I wonder if we can expect more people on the 50 heat leaderboard by showcasing 50 heat runs at places like GDQ events
I know it's a lot of work, but some aspects are more stable than others, it may be possible one day
gaunt fiber
there isn't exactly a dedicated group of zag spear players
Spear gamers rise up
edgy arrow
*except the beowulf legion*
despite our growing ranks, the number of 50 heat beo clears is still small enough that pseudo's thunder flare clear is statistically significant
moral of the story: do not try to do statistics on the high heat meta
edgy arrow
uh oh
gaunt fiber
If I have to tryhard for zeus cast you know I can put some efforts into it
edgy arrow
zeus cast 50 has already been done tho
if you really wanna flex you should do icy flare
edgy arrow
ah, i see
lmao just flood the leaderboard with 50 heat thunder flare clears
i've changed my mind this is an amazing plan
spice lava
And then in the future rules: Don't consider the runs on the leaderboard have recommended builds
edgy arrow
leaderboard becomes a useful resource for what builds not to use
you can find the best strats by a process of elimination
spice lava
We all are AP slaves anyway
edgy arrow
yeah truth
spice lava
Reroll is just denying the truth
eager vortex
roll barely works for me even without ap
the boon I get without roll is usually better
and I end up being disappointed in myself and my life
spice lava
The shackle strat: having the keepsake until the end, reroll only when AP2 wants to mess with your main DPS
Statistically more chances to not be disappointed 😄
solar maple
honestly thunder flare beo is still not a bad high heat weapon
I'll get back to doing the other casts at some point. Icy flare will be a tough one I think
true fable
only cowards reroll; real gamers take bronze skin like men
take sure footing in that scenario if youre offered both
sure footing cant be pommed
bronze skin can
sullen minnow
General question: Is artemis attack/special ever worth rolling for rarity, or is crit damage the only scaler you really care about at that point?
I’m not sure exactly how her base % buff interacts with crit damage itself, where it falls in line in the damage calculation chain
edgy arrow
take sure footing in that scenario if youre offered both
i mean yeah
sure footing is also actually good
anyway, just cleared the chillest 45 of my life
splitting bolt tartarus end shop, scint feast asphodel end shop
running AP0 RI0 is a hell of a drug
true fable
why legacy ohokwy
true fable
lol true
gaunt fiber
@sullen minnow Except for Peach who resets if common deadly strike, I've never seen anyone doing it (but speedrun context with Arthur). Common Artemis is fine, especially the flourish. I'd never roll it because it's good damage already and you have a high chance of pomming it at least once through tartarus. Of course an epic flourish is amazing, but not needed. Rarity is in general a trap (except for like, Zeus and Ares) and rolling for it is extremely greedy.
edgy arrow
peach resets on common deadly strike?
huh
i always figured the 15% crit was like, basically the entire point anyway
gaunt fiber
I guess you notice the rarity with a slow hard hitting aspect more
edgy arrow
i guess yeah
mossy zinc
General question: Is artemis attack/special ever worth rolling for rarity, or is...
You shouldn't reroll anything for rarity. Save your rerolls for better purposes with better odds.
eager vortex
is saving rerolls for uc viable
eager vortex
okay
gaunt fiber
Except Tartarus in general, depends if you have a lot of boons
sometimes you just have 2 boons and need one to sell
mossy zinc
With UC and AP, it's a good idea to save at least one reroll for bad Pools of Purging and to dodge unwanted exchanges.
eager vortex
ap is way beyond me but uc yes
sullen minnow
<@!377952517910429696> Except for Peach who resets if common deadly strike, I've...
Thanks yall!
solemn pulsar
I guess you notice the rarity with a slow hard hitting aspect more
Peach is on the “sub 7 Arthur grind”, he needs all the help@he can get lol
gaunt fiber
ik ik
mossy zinc
Just get Charged Skewer. Easy.
solar maple
I just got shot from off screen for 40 by a speeder strong archer
solar maple
killing me in 1 hit
mossy zinc
Sounds like a you problem. 
bright mango
Don't get hit?
mossy zinc
Not a Yu problem.
bright mango
lol yeah whenever I do that I get so happy
waxen relic
Just because the Centaur Hearts do worse doesn't mean you should ignore them smh
solar maple
I mean I didn't
even with 4 hearts and thick skin GY only has 100 health, and 30 on an SD
gaunt fiber
I just got shot from off screen for 40 by a speeder strong archer
Yes they're dangerous
solar maple
those are the words of someone who has been shot from off screen by a speeder strong archer before
gaunt fiber
lmao
Indeed
The key is like maintening enough hp not to get one shot
Like spinning on souls for example
gaunt fiber
and as Nyaanyaa said
not getting hit helps a lot
it just means you have to be more cautious at first
then you'll focus on speed
gaunt fiber
nope
solar maple
you'd better be on either the speedrun or heat leaderboard this week
solemn pulsar
Lol is only it had been last eeek your 50 clear could have been there
Not that anyone is going to spike 45
gaunt fiber
yeah but it would have been unfair
solar maple
the heat board isn't very active unfortunately
last week it was just me and tyler for nem
gaunt fiber
I'll still get a high heat clear
solar maple
I'm going to go for 40
gaunt fiber
would you clear 42 if I go for 41
solar maple
hmm
maybe
I think I could do 42
my current pact has cf0 because beowulf is deeply entrenched in my soul
gaunt fiber
I could stream some 45 AP2, would be fun
solar maple
but I could turn on cf2 for 42
solemn pulsar
last week it was just me and tyler for nem
Yeah I originally suggested it overlap here for heat record of the week
Feel like there could potentially be additional buy in but w/e
gaunt fiber
Yeah people have to know
solar maple
part of the reason I keep talking about it here instead of over there is to entice the regs here
gaunt fiber
my current pact has cf0 because beowulf is deeply entrenched in my soul
I get that
solar maple
doesn't seem to be working though
solar maple
pretty sure I brought it up last week as well
solemn pulsar
Yeah but who wants to run high heat sword
bright mango
40 guan yu was a lot of fun
gaunt fiber
doesn't seem to be working though
Depends what you take though. I'd avoid RI/DC if I can
CF is bad but a mirror is enough boons for Guan Yu
honest kernel
solar maple
I've still done <20 GY runs all time
solar maple
and yeah I have RI0 DC0
gaunt fiber
I had 6 runs with it before last week
mossy zinc
I have no idea where to find these aspects of the week.
mossy zinc
I could probably tell you more about the historical figure than how to play the aspect, so let's just watch bablo together and learn.
@gaunt fiber they didn't even mention your name. How rude.
mossy zinc
But you're a better Guan Yu player than pretty much all of them.
gaunt fiber
I don't have the fame yet
mossy zinc
They're trying to bablowash history. Don't let them.
bronze viper
NOTHING IS HAPPENING STRIM IS DEAD
bright mango
bronze viper
;_; What am I going to have to do now, pay attention at work?
gaunt fiber
lmao you crazy
gaunt fiber
;_; What am I going to have to do now, pay attention at work?
Not today boyo :D
bronze viper
Lol, good, because I got ninja assigned to 24 more hours of awful google cloud training. Need GY memes for sanity
sweet merlin
Is there actually no benefit after 20 heats? As in no rewards? Or is it because I’m not doing hell mode
bronze viper
Hell mode just offsets the same rewarsd by 5 heat. Since you always have 5 active
But otherwise you are right, there is no reward (other than the Skelly statue at 32 heat) past 20
nor achievements
bronze viper
You were the reward the whole time.
bright mango
Is there actually no benefit after 20 heats? As in no rewards? Or is it because ...
Its just for your enjoyment/suffering
sweet merlin
Haha since I will just try 30 heat instead of doing it step by step 😂
gaunt fiber
Grinding one by one can be annoying yeah
But if you're like comfortable at 20 or so you could make the 32 leap
but it's hard
There's a guide pinned if you need
bronze viper
Common logical breakpoints are 16 -> 20 -> 32 -> 40 -> 45 -> 50
bright mango
I went from 10 heat to 32
gaunt fiber
** c o m m o n**
wintry berry
I've done 1...8 -> 16 -> 32 -> 40 -> 50
solemn pulsar
tfw 40 on all weapons and 50 on 2 and you still only have bounties maxed on rail
sweet merlin
At 32, do you use the LC maxed and SD or -1 LC and DD? Will try it
bright mango
Depends
edgy arrow
both work
edgy arrow
i wouldn't recommend using any LC if you're going DDs tho
bright mango
^^^^
sweet merlin
But then the other pacts feels much harder than LC haha
bronze viper
LC is extremely punishing if you aren't using Stubborn Defiance
bronze viper
I would say in general I prefer SD overall. No matter LC. But to get to that point I'd recommend that you're comfy doing every boss with 0-1 DDs lost.
Because SD allows you to mess up in normal rooms (super relevant once you get BP2 FO2 active), but you have to have clean boss fights
sweet merlin
My only bottleneck so far is Hades final boss. I use 2 DD. And Theseus usually 1 DD
worn current
My only bottleneck so far is Hades final boss. I use 2 DD. And Theseus usually 1...
Use Acorn or Lucky Tooth. Prolly the former
I've got a question about Baj's 64 heat run
solemn pulsar
shoot
worn current
At 1:08, he's mashing summon before opening a door. I assume that's RNG manip?
solemn pulsar
yeah the run is routed
worn current
I see him do it in other places after, I'm only a short way into the vid.
solemn pulsar
it's done on a set seed, and has a carefully planned route to optimize the build and maximize free rooms
there's manips after almost every room
worn current
Well now I'm just curious how the RNG works, and that's not something I feel I can discuss here. I'm sure I can find that information in legit places, though.
bronze viper
What's the difference between breaking pots, casting, and summon?
solemn pulsar
breaking a pot increments by 1, the cast stone dropping (so stygian wont do this) increments by 1
bronze viper
Also I assume breaking pots during encounters doesn't iterate the RNG function
solemn pulsar
summoning increments by 2, but if zag has a voiceline then it's 3 (1 extra)
RNG usage skyrockets during combat, but the offset resets after you pick up the reward
that reset is the only reason routing is possible
otherwise it would be TAS only
bronze viper
Yeah
solemn pulsar
Well now I'm just curious how the RNG works, and that's not something I feel I c...
i created the route for baj, I don't have a specific guide but some VODs on my twitch channel show me making the route/working through it, and you'll learn something just watching some chunks of it probably
worn current
I love watching this stuff. You have no idea how many hours of TAS vid watching I've lost over the years
Interesting that it resets after it drops.
solemn pulsar
i'm going to probably be doing a stream this week talking about running through the Nemesis Any heat route (can achieve sub 4:30 ingame time) and start routing a Rama 64 heat route for Tailesque soon as well
bronze viper
Are you doing Tooth/Roots this time?
worn current
The highest current unseeded heat is at 60, correct?
bronze viper
Yeah
solemn pulsar
Interesting that it resets after it drops.
after claiming the reward, specifically. I assume SGG either wanted to be able to test consistency of room generation, or there was some issue that caused performance issues after combat? not sure
solemn pulsar
Are you doing Tooth/Roots this time?
this is a Tailesque route not a Rama route so no... he's going the 0 defense route as well LOL
maybe after we can do a more accessible max heat route haha
solar maple
zag fist 100% dodge athena legendary 👀
worn current
So you claim the reward, the RNG gets changed up to when you open the door, and the room AND reward information is done upon entering the door?
solar maple
yes
well the rng is reset when you pick up the boon
which is how we can actually stay on route despite hectic fights
solemn pulsar
So you claim the reward, the RNG gets changed up to when you open the door, and ...
it's easier to think of it as each room having a seed, separate from what room it is (like the layout)., and what the reward is The RNG offset of the previous room combined with the previous room's seed creates the current room's seed.
The seed determines:
- what enemies will spawn
- what specific reward you'll get (if it's a pom/hammer/boon, what will show up in the menu)
- what rewards will appear on the doors when you finish the room, and what layouts the room exits will have
so when you enter Chamber 2, the game already set what the rewards + room layout will be for chamber 3
but if the Ch3 reward is a boon/hammer, its exact values aren't decided until you enter chamber 3
since some stuff is determined 1 room in advance, it makes routing not trivial, since you need to both get what you want (enemy/boon wise) and get the exit you want at the same time
worn current
solar maple
definitely non trivial. I messed around with max heat routing a bit and it's quite hard to find a good path
solemn pulsar
for example, in one room in elysium baj has to summon like 30+ times, because I needed a hammer to give Sudden Rush (on AP2), exit in a free room, and have the 2nd exit not be the shop, since i didn't want to skip the shop, and have the skipped exit also not be the butterfly ball miniboss room, since we didn't want to fight asterius
bronze viper
And he still got to dad in 12 minutes lmao
solemn pulsar
getting every free room will help with that, but also baj good
worn current
I saw how much manip stuff he did in Sisyphus' room
solemn pulsar
also in elysium I needed a normal combat room to
- give me the reward we wanted from the boon
- be a thanatos room (1/12 chance)
- exit in a fountain for the final free room
solemn pulsar
I saw how much manip stuff he did in Sisyphus' room
so the thing with sisyphus's room is that there are shades moving around, which increment the RNG. he shoos them all away so that they don't increment the RNG after he talks to sisyphus, since getting the coins from sisyphus reset the RNG
you have the same thing in chamber 1 and tartarus midshop
worn current
Ahh, got it
solemn pulsar
but since timer isn't paused in those rooms you have to have some faster strategies
halcyon flame
and i thought i knew a lot about this game 
solemn pulsar
i mean all of this is useless for anything outside of routed applications
knowing what is incrementing the RNG doesn't make a difference when you can't see your manips doing anything
halcyon flame
i'm not even gonna try to make a joke about it i can barely comprehend "rng manipulation using an underworld beanie baby"
solemn pulsar
i'm not even gonna try to make a joke about it i can barely comprehend "rng mani...
zag: poking battie until he can find a good boon
halcyon flame
i can force a free room by scaring away ghosts? sweet
worn current
God, now I wanna see an Artemis faceroll TAS of Hades.
solemn pulsar
what do you mean?
worn current
I don't know how to include important words before I hit enter.
solemn pulsar
like crits only?
worn current
Just TAS shenanigans in general.
dire steppe
God, now I wanna see an Artemis faceroll TAS of Hades.
watch the 4 min nemesis route run
halcyon flame
i haven't actually gotten around to watching that run
solemn pulsar
im partial to this clip myself
halcyon flame
i've seen it on src but i didn't actually watch it because i was so perplexed that it's a thing at all
solemn pulsar
(he fell off route in styx and found vermin with the juiced up build)
dire steppe
https://www.twitch.tv/satanisachillguy/clip/OutstandingRefinedRingDogFace?filter...
wtf where did it go
edgy arrow
aww can’t find the 5 sec champions clip
can’t remember who did it
oh yeah that one’s good as well
solemn pulsar
solemn pulsar
the route is fun to run i popped a 4:32 last week
edgy arrow
not the one i was thinking of; there was one ages ago
solemn pulsar
hoping to beat his time this week
worn current
Thanatos would also be fun to see in a TAS
worn current
Lil bit under
sweet merlin
For bow chiron if not daedulus special perk, which other one is best?
solemn pulsar
attack hammers like triple shot, twin shot, flurry shot, point blank, perfect
they're all pretty good
if you can't find special hammers
you want to avoid sniper shot
since you're rarely shooting enemies from that far away, you'll almost never get the buff
worn current
Wait, how does Styx work with getting a seed
halcyon flame
if you don't end up getting special hammers it doesn't really hurt to pivot to a zag bow build at that point lol
solemn pulsar
Wait, how does Styx work with getting a seed
what do you mean
worn current
How do you deal with RNG manipulating in the Styx? There's no reward in each room.
solemn pulsar
yeah it's just layout + enemies for most of them
it still undergoes the same process, just doesn't have a reward until the end of the tunnel
worn current
But if you're looking for specific abilities, do you get them before you have to go into the tunnels and not worry about it too much?
solemn pulsar
by the time you're in styx your build should be fine, you're mainly just looking for a 2 sack at that point
worn current
I guess what I'm really asking is "how hard is the RNG to predict after finishing a fight"
solemn pulsar
Styx makes it kind of annoying
if you have rubble falling down from the ceiling after completing the room
it can increment the RNG
halcyon flame
does dialogue also mess with rng? in the 4:25 nem run he didn't start mashing summon until the dialogue was finished
solemn pulsar
it can
yeah
there's a lot of stuff that might not affect it, but you wait out or do anyways. it starts to become superstition almost, what's incrementing the RNG and what's not LMAO
halcyon flame
"hmm will i get a good boon if i use a dd by stepping on lava?"
honest kernel
Funny enough, lava damage does increment the RNG
Once per lava tick
Lost an attempt to that one
solemn pulsar
yes
would be tough with all the shades in the entry way
but it is theoretically possible, since i dont think RNG resets between lobby + courtyard
halcyon flame
so you're telling me it's a possibility that petting the dog increments rng, and with this knowledge i can potentially force a good boon/hammer at the start
bronze viper
Funny enough, lava damage *does* increment the RNG
Wtf lol, is that all traps or just lava
solemn pulsar
probably all traps
but most of them dont activate after combat unless attacked
and attacking after combat is just asking to fall off route
edgy arrow
speaking of routing stuff
@solemn pulsar do you know how the rng for EM4 adds works?
i have a practice file that consistently gives me some combination of skull crushers, megagorgons and soul catchers
so like, it’s not random each time but it’s not consistent either
solemn pulsar
so the mod doesn't show the add pool, but from what I can tell it picks 3 of the 5
and randomly picks between them
edgy arrow
ah
solemn pulsar
it's the same as normal enemy spawns
like one of the first tartarus rooms in the route has 2 armored bothers 1st wave, and the 2nd wave is either 2 more armored bothers or 1 + 2 skullomats, depending on how combat went
edgy arrow
if i made a save state at the door, could i increment before entering to change what the 3 options might be?
solemn pulsar
yes
edgy arrow
okay neat
solemn pulsar
the savestate will be at cerberus though
and RNG resets after cerberus walks off
so just do it then
after that i mean
solemn pulsar
yep, and you could also make savestates of each one in the hades fight
since the "pool" will be the same
once you find the variations you're looking for
edgy arrow
oh yeah good point
honest kernel
Does anyone have any tips for beating EM4 with Forced overtime? cause it has been rough for me, I’m using a trippy flare Beo build for it
shy plinth
That fight is hard but dio beo should be good for it
I'd def recommend checking the pins and watching the vod
Beo players often bring hades into the wreck pit on the left
honest kernel
Thank you!! I’ll def check those out!
honest kernel
am I crazy or did AP use to affect UC choices and its not in the game anymore
@mossy zinc
bronze viper
When did you start playing? That has not been the case since I started (Nighty Night)
mossy zinc
@honest kernel UC has never been affected by AP. There were a few bugs with AP and UC here and there, I think? Maybe you remember something like that.
honest kernel
huh
maybe?
I have this recollection of AP crossing out my UC options and am now startled that it wasnt a thing anymore
well good thing its not :p
halcyon flame
how awful would it be to be forced to take out a good boon because of ap2
bronze viper
Your soul builds callouses
Oh, you meant from UC. Lol. It can kind of happen sometimes if AP2 gives you an unsellable boon
mossy zinc
Maybe the trauma from a run-ending exchange forced by AP2 damaged your synaptic pathways and affected your memory. Hades pacts have been known to do that.
shy gulch
lmfao
sullen minnow
I took heightened security once and now have a paralyzing fear into walking into pools of hot lava
Does that count?
shy gulch
welcome to the club
shy gulch
my solution was to just speedrun for long enough to not fear the lava anymore
health is a resource
sullen minnow
If you have 1hp the run isn't over
wintry berry
HS accelerate my hp resets with SD
honest kernel
optimal
wintry berry
There was a time I feared HS, but now I learned to how make the most of it
I don't advise turning on HS at first, but when pushing heats, getting used to it is useful imo
spice lava
I finished my lernie fight on my 53 hestia with 1 hp, I found out when I reviewed the vod, thinking my fight was okay 😄
"...Ok I was lucky but hey still valid"
mossy zinc
I took heightened security once and now have a paralyzing fear into walking into...
You become immune to it eventually. Unfortunately, Zagreus doesn't. He does get better, though.
sullen minnow
Thank god, my exotic vacation to Tahiti is back on
tidal trench
heightened security is a lot worse then it looks, I think
in a normal run, accidentally dashing into a spring trap hardly punishes
heightened security makes it a problem
honest kernel
I fear hs mainly for what it does to the hades fight
celest grail
solemn pulsar
Thank god, my exotic vacation to Tahiti is back on
it's a magical place
sullen minnow
Have you been?
It’s one of the few corners I haven’t seen yet
I was supposed to go there/Bali once upon a time but a volcano said no 🙈
sullen minnow
Oh hell thats long in the past lol, but thanks for the wish
got that money back lickety split lol
I was making a terrible joke about HS giving me an irrational fear of walking into perfectly safe, regular hot lava 😜
unique zephyr
I don’t take HS until 40
Where the alternatives become like Approval Process or something
HS seems to be more like “this is the least bad heat” at 40+ when you need to start filling in missing heat and to be avoided at 32 or below
I still need to do stygius and aegis for 32, I got at least 32 for all the other weapons
I haven’t touched sword or shield in a very long time
unique zephyr
Do I just flood flare start and then hope for snow burst
I’m not sure of the timing to load casts during bull rush
Hopefully if I pre load it it will be fine
What makes beo good? The dragon rush?
shy plinth
Large numbers
solemn pulsar
snow burst shouldn't be necessary unless you're getting hit a lot
the DPS move is artemis attack -> mirage shot
shy plinth
Check out the beo vods, it just does such crazy damage and is safe while doing so
I think it's the only aspect that prefers Elysium to Tartarus
Or one of the few
shy plinth
Man I keep learning new things every time I bring up Beo
When I talked to Tyler he said tart and asphodel were really hard
solemn pulsar
it can one hit or very easily deal with most unarmored enemies
high heat is a little different obv
shy gulch
aspho sucks
shy plinth
Oh is this speedrun
solemn pulsar
since you dont have high confidence
shy gulch
i will say that
shy plinth
I'm getting confused
solemn pulsar
still good in tart on high heat
shy plinth
We're crossing the streams
solemn pulsar
asphodel sucks
solemn pulsar
beo is good in tart with fiery, and amazing with fiery and high confidence basically
@unique zephyr if you don't want to rely on mirage duo, then you should go for aphrodite cast
- snow burst
gets good damage up front
gives you weak
etc
unique zephyr
<@!266732686838595606> if you don't want to rely on mirage duo, then you should ...
I’ll use aphro cast then, for some reason I forgot aphro cast is way better on stuff like beo and hera
I’m not brave enough to run high confidence yet especially in high heat
bright mango
Do I just flood flare start and then hope for snow burst
You can also go passion flare
Its not as hard to use as flood flare
solemn pulsar
too l8 i already gottem
bright mango
bright mango
I’ll use aphro cast then, for some reason I forgot aphro cast is way better on s...
flood flare is actually better
solemn pulsar
i think they meant that aphro cast is better on beo/hera than on its own as a short range melee cast
main delta
ahhhhhh i choked a 53 heat run by running into a pot
those things are so nasty holy crap
eternal hare
did you get the legendary end-of-biome skip?
solemn pulsar
Fantastic time
gaunt fiber
yes
bright mango
And this was his second try
gaunt fiber
Speed at 40 is funny
bright mango
So it should be higher
bright mango
without JS this is easy sub 10
solemn pulsar
Will be 7th place bc of latt has a better time
bright mango
thats true
solemn pulsar
In the pipe
bright mango
Latts was 9:xx iirc
solemn pulsar
But still amazing GY time
Dang if I can get a good 40 heat time I can be 4th place in all 3 high heat categories heheh
unique zephyr
https://imgur.com/BCNYmKf
Nice job! I have trouble not timing out at 40 with JS1, speedrunners always amaze me with their speed
true fable
dont do it cgull
i got good placings in all high heat categories then it all came crumbling down
solar maple
oh I never actually put up a 40 heat time
solemn pulsar
hey i was the only time in 40 heat for like a month
true fable
hmm
maybe its not quite time to take a break
theres still so much left i want to do
well
i'll do it after break TM
unique zephyr
You’ll come back stronger after the break if you do decide to take one
That’s been my experience anyway
I took a break before tacking high heat
mossy zinc
HS seems to be more like “this is the least bad heat” at 40+ when you need to st...
HS is a reasonable filler for 32 when you're speedrunning or just at a higher skill level. Hurts melee a lot more than ranged aspects.
It's a very good choice when you start with the Owl Pendant because you can easily get Sure Footing.
gaunt fiber
Nice job! I have trouble not timing out at 40 with JS1, speedrunners always amaz...
I am not :(
But thanks!
gaunt fiber
Or you'll swim and die in the lava like me 
mossy zinc
Magma.
gaunt fiber
Magma. Have you seen my clear ? 
bright mango
i am a lava swimmer
mossy zinc
What clear?
mossy zinc
I don't see any Lady Aphrodite boons.
gaunt fiber
:(
gaunt fiber
But the speed
mossy zinc
What about it?
gaunt fiber
Well that's pretty fast
waxen relic
I don't know why but Hestia 40 Heat was quite hard for me. Maybe it's the missing Shooter Experience?
Anyway 6x40 is done, and Bounties as well 
bright mango
It might be because you took RI2
waxen relic
I tried the normal pact too
And i think i know the game enough, it's just a matter of my brain and hands not working together with Hestia somehow
and missing absurd numbers of enpowered shots
not to mention getting caught in animations almost every special because i'm looking at where to shoot
mossy zinc
You can do 40 Heat on Hestia without every using your Special.
waxen relic
Game's easier when Targets and Zag are in the same place
Didn't use Special much at all after recognizing it
But my Specials were hitting more than my shots
unique zephyr
i think they meant that aphro cast is better on beo/hera than on its own as a sh...
Yeah I meant aphro cast is way more viable as a pick, when usually I just ignore it as trash, what makes flood flare better though? the aoe?
I haven't checked the damage between them
mossy zinc
How dare you. 
unique zephyr
You can do 40 Heat on Hestia without every using your Special.
Can confirm, got hestia 40 while neglecting my special
Hestia is my only 40 so far
I'm grinding nem sword now for 32
fun but not safe to use
I threw against Lernie while I had Heart Rend 😦
and that's the furthest I've gotten with Nem 32 so far
eternal hare
Yeah I meant aphro cast is way more viable as a pick, when usually I just ignore...
flood flare is absolutely massive and is significantly easier to build mirage shot for
gaunt fiber
@bronze viper I have a boyo in need of help with Chiron 50, do you think schackle is trap?
He's too shy to ask
bronze viper
It's good on Chiron
Though I don't see much of a point unless he's on AP2
You have to be willing to also supplement your damage with attack depending on what hammers you get too. Pretty much every hammer is good except for Sniper Shot
Failing at 45 GY right now on stream if you want to make fun
shy plinth
Explosive shot?
bronze viper
Explosive Shot is fine on Chiron. The explosion still applies the targetting debuff
It's also a lot of raw damage
sullen minnow
I’m really, really coming to love explosive shot on non-rama bows
sullen minnow
Such chuuuunky damage and it turns it from a direct-contact weapon into an airburst AOE, which is a massive difference in how you approach a room
Being able to airburst shots around corners with it is a gamechanger
gaunt fiber
Failing at 45 GY right now on stream if you want to make fun
inc
spice lava
Thx Ledger
mossy zinc
Explosive Shot is alright. It's no Twin Shot.
bronze viper
Def wasn't making that claim lol
tidal flame
You can do 40 Heat on Hestia without every using your Special.
Hestia has a Special?
mossy zinc
"Explosive Shot is Twin Shot."—@bronze viper, 2021
This quote says otherwise.
@tidal flame no, don't believe in those rumors.
tidal flame
"Explosive Shot is Twin Shot" - Nyaanyaa Mewmew 2021
gaunt fiber
nice pseudo yajijy
mossy zinc
@tidal flame that's what I said if you remove a few words from what I said.
And a period.
spice lava
Yeah Hestia has a special, but you definitely see its use through high heat
mossy zinc
Couldn't disagree less.
mossy zinc
Yeah Hestia has a special, but you definitely see its use through high heat
That's a lie, and you know it.
"Hestia doesn't have a special."—@spice lava, 2021
Why are you playing both sides.
gaunt fiber
Lmao
wanton plover
does zag bow or hera bow have a special
mossy zinc
Also, Astaos is not dumb. That's very rude.
spice lava
Who are you, Quote Demon 👀
gaunt fiber
It's alright
gaunt fiber
I love this channel
spice lava
Oh I see, you're Theseus, aren't you?
gaunt fiber
BROTHERS IN DEATH
tidal flame
does zag bow or hera bow have a special
Zag bow has special according to some obscure tier list guide on the Internet.
In fact, according to them Zag bow doesn't even have an attack.
mossy zinc
Rock Paper Shotgun, I think?
tidal flame
Something like that. I'm not giving them more traffic.
mossy zinc
Why not? Sabotage your competition.
bright mango
Should i sell tempest strike and keep shackle or take shackle off and don’t sell tempest strike
I’m in tartarus btw
tidal flame
Which weapon?
bright mango
Hestia
tidal flame
Although it's tempest strike lul
bright mango
50 heat
tidal flame
Sell it
mossy zinc
^
mossy zinc
You can't even fix that terrible damage with poms.
tidal flame
I mean the only reason you should keep it is to sell UC
And avoid selling Hunter Dash
gaunt fiber
maybe sea storm hestia
mossy zinc
At 50 with probably AP1 or AP2? Not likely.
gaunt fiber
indeed
bright mango
Ap2
gaunt fiber
Prolly AP2
tidal flame
Just sell it
bright mango
Ok
mossy zinc
Sell your Special button, too.
Hestia doesn't have a Special after all. Might as well sell the button.
spice lava
if you still don't have a good boon on the attack at the end of asphodel, be prepared to finish the run with shackle
mossy zinc
@waxen relic congrats on those 40s! What aspects are left? 
bright mango
I’m thinking of just seeing artemis attack
Is it bad if I do
Like I already wont be on the leaderboard if I don’t seed
gaunt fiber
Not it's amazing
spice lava
Hestia's special does exist, I'll need it when I'll be back on Hestia for EM4 😼
bright mango
And i won’t know what’s in the next chambers
mossy zinc
Won't be on the leaderboard?
waxen relic
<@!469811780160454716> congrats on those 40s! What aspects are left? <:squirtnya...
In Terms of All Aspects i'm only at 8/24
bright mango
Won't be on the leaderboard?
I can’t record
mossy zinc
Oh.
bright mango
So it won’t show up in the main page
So might as well seed
But I won’t know what’s in the next chambers
Because honestly I’m tired of resetting
tidal flame
Do what you need to enjoy the game lol
mossy zinc
You can do that if it's more fun for you. Nothing wrong with that.
tidal flame
Seeding is fine
Routing is fine
bright mango
I don’t even know how to route
gaunt fiber
skipping breakfast is fine
bright mango
Hmm
mossy zinc
skipping breakfast is fine
No.
tidal flame
People have breakfast?
bright mango
Smh
tidal flame
I have 2 meals a day for 2 years now
mossy zinc
Runs from people who skip breakfast will be purged from the leaderboard.
gaunt fiber
Don't purge me
mossy zinc
It's already done.
gaunt fiber
But
mossy zinc
But what?
gaunt fiber
It's unfair
mossy zinc
You've never done any high heat runs.
gaunt fiber
It hurts
mossy zinc
There's no record of it.
tidal flame
Is 60 still WR?
spice lava
Just erase GY, safest way to purge Astaos
mossy zinc
Why would I erase a top tier aspect?
bright mango
63 with fists mind you
tidal flame
Lmao
mossy zinc
It hurts
Is your holographic projector malfunctioning again? https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/8/89/The_Doctor%2C_tiny.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20140405172407&path-prefix=en
gaunt fiber
I'm not a square dude
mossy zinc
Said the square dude.
spice lava
If GY was a top tier aspect, we would see Astaos' run on the 50 board
mossy zinc
I also play Guan Yu, you know?
spice lava
the unfamous P E N D I N G situation
tidal flame
63 with fists mind you
You got link to that comment? Now im curious
unique zephyr
flood flare is absolutely massive and is significantly easier to build mirage sh...
Is mirage shot worth running God’s legacy for?
spice lava
Reminds me another 63 heat dude with sword in 14min with Sisyphus companion
unique zephyr
For beo I mean
eternal hare
yeah, generally legacy if your build relies on a particular duo
and flood flare rarity scaling means it's not hugely detrimental if you get common cast
tidal flame
ok that's good
eternal hare
what kind of redemption?
tidal flame
the speedrun server is behind that im sure
gaunt fiber
"ok I lied"
honest kernel
gottem
tidal flame
^ see
tidal flame
thank you!! god gamer you might say
sullen minnow
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/802615525141643265/821143241969106984/63_...
Why is this not a pin. How is this not a pin
gaunt fiber
I will stick to "great"
waxen relic
Don't you trust him?
gaunt fiber
You can see Baj's video which is 64 routed. The 63 was actually a cheater, if that was not clear.
And it's a meme now
gentle lantern
😔 im dummy
gaunt fiber
Nah
gentle lantern
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
lmao u didnt delete the embed in time
tidal flame
lmao I tried
daring hedge
"ok I lied"
all they said was they had a "gold bug" and didn't admit to anything else
gentle lantern
i think theres a way to send links with no embed tho
daring hedge
i don't think they really admitted to lying lol
gaunt fiber
all they said was they had a "gold bug" and didn't admit to anything else
Yeah that's true. But at least they did not like
Whatever
Why am I defending them lul
tidal flame
we should just kappa 63 heat runners to death the next time one shows up
daring hedge
like it was a weird misdirection "apology" idk lmao
tidal flame
more fun that way, I can add more to the collage also
gaunt fiber
yeah lmao
waxen relic
gaunt fiber
I just saw them posting after, "redemption" was a bit strong lol
waxen relic
is what i know of he's confessed
gaunt fiber
Yeah...
mossy zinc
we should just kappa 63 heat runners to death the next time one shows up
You should do that next time you see somebody who claims they did 64 Heat.
daring hedge
"it's a fun con" yeah dude that'll definitely net you points in this community
tidal flame
64 heat means they have the brain to realize that Hell Mode exists. 63 heat seems to be where then clowns congregate lol
shy gulch
big laffs dude
eternal hare
how do we explain the 59 zag sword dude then
tidal flame
retrash alt account
gaunt fiber
it's a cool number
tidal flame
obviously
daring hedge
59 zag sword dude already got ya if you're questioning it from the weird number
mossy zinc
I've already done 69 Heat with only Lady Aphrodite boons.
daring hedge
hmm checks out
honest kernel
and her hidden aspect
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/802615525141643265/821143241969106984/63_...
"zag is great for that special" LOL why did I just notice this
gaunt fiber
Dude you play dash nova
of course the special is great
it's like the main asset of Zagius
gaunt fiber
honest kernel
Speedrunners, take notes
unique zephyr
and flood flare rarity scaling means it's not hugely detrimental if you get comm...
I was wondering about how important the rarity was for flood flare, thanks for addressing that 🙂
waxen relic
We need a Sword Special High heat Route
mossy zinc
I still remember it like it was yesterday when I did my first 65 Heat.
Ah, it was a good run. I stacked damage reduction until 100%. God Mode was a big help. Have you people tried using it?
gaunt fiber
That's a clever plan
gaunt fiber
Did you rare crop Different league or something?
bright mango
I was wondering about how important the rarity was for flood flare, thanks for a...
Its pretty important
The difference is quite big
unique zephyr
I’m still trying to decide god’s pride vs legacy for beo
bright mango
Legacy for mirage shot flood flare
mossy zinc
Did you rare crop Different league or something?
I just used max god mode + a Heroic Different League that I found in chamber 1. And then when I applied Weak, I had so much damage reduction that attacks actually healed me.
It was very nice.
gaunt fiber
Oh I see!
unique zephyr
Isn’t damage reduction actually multiplicative?
How do you get damage to heal you?
shy plinth
I believe this is a meme
mossy zinc
It would be bad if it was multiplicative. You'd get less damage reduction the more sources of damage reduction you have.
gaunt fiber
...
waxen relic
what's the base damage-reduction?
mossy zinc
bright mango
Different league right?
waxen relic
Can't get any less than that can it
waxen relic
less than 0
gaunt fiber
You can get your blood boiling
unique zephyr
God mode maxes at 80%
unique zephyr
I got bored when it got to 80% and decided to try it turned off
I was surprised at how much better I got
And then I did 8 for all weps, then 16 for all weps and now trying 32
Only sword and shield left for 32, got 40 on rail
unique zephyr
Thank you, I’m super proud of it
It was the most fun and intense run I ever had
Hestia bestia
unique zephyr
Yes autocorrect
bright mango
Hestia is bestia
gentle lantern
i would try 16 for all weapons but then itd be harder to get bounties
and i still havent maxed out all my weapons
bright mango
wdym harder to get bounties?
shy plinth
Yeah I don't quite follow
gentle lantern
like the highest heat ive gotten for the rail is 11, so if i went straight to 16 id need to go to 17 to get another bounty
shy gulch
that 16 would count for the 12 bounty
shy plinth
It's always locked to your lowest uncleared heat
shy gulch
so if you did 13, you’d still get bounties
shy plinth
Yeah it's always 1 through 20 in order
bright mango
Yeah all my 32 clears have been counting for 11 heat bounties 🙂
And my 50 is going to count for 14
So thats great
gentle lantern
i should try doing 16 for all weapons, i got 32 on fists
i tried 32 for nemesis and eris but failed 😔
mossy zinc
Well, you can just work your way up as you finish bounties.
Or do whatever Heat you feel like at the moment. Doesn't have to be all at 16.
bright mango
Yeah I jumped from 11 heat to 32
mossy zinc
If you feel more like doing 20 with one, just do 20.
gentle lantern
it feels good to have an achievement to work up to
this is my top heats and stuff for each weapon
gentle lantern
i didnt rly like hestia but i dont think i had it fully upgraded when i tried it
bright mango
Is it just me or do I feel that rama is overrated at the 32-40 range?
mossy zinc
I don't know. I find Excalibur incredibly easy as well if you just build for eHP.
gentle lantern
excalibur is great
mossy zinc
Overrated?
bright mango
Yeah like thats the first weapon anyone thinks of doing when they do 32-40 heat(probably because of tailesque)
I feel that the purposes that rama provides aren't necessary at that range
eternal hare
it's both safe and extremely powerful so I think it's adequately rated
gaunt fiber
Most people think about Guan Yu tbh
bright mango
totally
For example rama deals very well with JS
but at 32 who is going to take JS
mossy zinc
I don't know if I would agree that most people think of Rama first for that range. 
mossy zinc
I doubt that. You might be projecting.
bright mango
Lmao
gaunt fiber
can't you see
tidal flame
they do?
gaunt fiber
yeah
gentle lantern
i am not people i guess
mossy zinc
In any case, Eris is #1 still at 32.
mossy zinc
I think that much is pretty obvious.
gentle lantern
eris is fun
bright mango
I would say for first 32 clears hestia is the best
mossy zinc
You could probably speedrun 32 with Eris by accident.
Since the build is still the exact same.
bright mango
Lol I got a 13:x without even trying to for my eris 32
mossy zinc
And enemies still die just as fast.
mossy zinc
Exactly.
bright mango
It just happened
shy plinth
Eris is the highest floor aspect probs
bright mango
floor aspect?
shy plinth
Like even without being familiar with it if you go fast and dash in a lot you'll probs be fine
"highest floor"
edgy arrow
yeah i agree with Nyaanyaa; the speedrunning meta is just better known than the heat meta
shy plinth
The worst run on Eris is a lot better than the worst run on gy or whatever
bright mango
With eris literally all you need is zeus attack
shy plinth
Well also people talk about the heat meta and it depends who you ask and what you mean
At 32 you can do anything
bright mango
I almost completed a 40 eris run with hazard bomb and lightning
edgy arrow
someone who’s really familiar with high heat stuff might lean Hestia or Rama for their first 32, but most folks just go “eris op!” and it is and they win
bright mango
Thats it
shy plinth
Not gonna say a lot of people are out there doing hades spear 32
But you could!
I'd guess the most common first 32s are Eris or demeter tho
gentle lantern
i did demeter for my first 32 iirc
gentle lantern
just bc i was most comfy with it
shy plinth
Actually I bet most common first 32 is merciful end
Which might as well just be an aspect by itself
north dove
man, don't you guys hate playing unseeded and getting the perfect boon/hammer before you get a chance to show a death?
gaunt fiber
This is why I actually don't take the right keepsake for my first run
Not even kidding, I hate it so much
solemn pulsar
man, don't you guys hate playing unseeded and getting the perfect boon/hammer be...
If you didn’t show a death yet then u ain’t playing unseeded yet bruv
mossy zinc
Whether you prove it's unseeded or not doesn't take away from the accomplishment.
edgy arrow
yeah if your run doesn’t become unseeded until after you show a death that implies runs that aren’t recorded just don’t exist and never happened
unique zephyr
Not gonna say a lot of people are out there doing hades spear 32
My spear 32 was with hades spear
I did have exploding launcher and serrated edge (and hyper delivery at dad) and barely won but it was a 32 clear lol
Achilles is probably easier bc casts but I had more fun with hades spin stuff
Best aspects for 32 are what feel right to you
I tried Rama because tailsesque but zag bow clicked with me more so I got 32 with zag bow
shy plinth
Yeah like I don't know if there's a "meta" but it's hard to tell since this channel tends to be... I guess insular is the word?
It would be very easy to get the idea that high heat is all rama and beo etc
But Nyaanyaa is probably right that Eris is easily the most popular 32, though I'd bet Demeter is pretty close
bright mango
Whether you prove it's unseeded or not doesn't take away from the accomplishment...
exactly
unless you route it(except for baj's 64) I don't think those runs feel like a big accomplishment
mossy zinc
You don't think routed runs feel like an accomplishment?
bright mango
Baj's 64 feels like a big accomplishment
mossy zinc
It's a different kind of challenge. I've just no personal interest in them.
bright mango
But like 40-50 routed runs- like what's the point
Because it is in your capability to do it naturally
edgy arrow
routed runs are always insane heat or hyper optimised speedruns
bright mango
Yeah
edgy arrow
no one’s doing routed 40-50
bright mango
Those feel like a big accomplishment
edgy arrow
it’s a stupid amount of work; there’s no point unless you’re going for a record with it
bright mango
Like a sub 5 routed is insane
Or like Baj's 64 clear
That was insane
Because that took an insane amount of skill
edgy arrow
for sure
mossy zinc
As long as people are having fun, that's all that matters.
bright mango
true
mossy zinc
m as happy for Baj doing that run as for somebody else doing their first 32.
Or whatever else seemed like a challenge to them.
unique zephyr
I’m as happy for someone completing their first clear as those things also
Whatever is fun and makes you feel accomplished
bright mango
Definitely
unique zephyr
The highest heat I’ll push is whatever heat I can avoid AP on, at least AP2
Once it’s not fun I will stick to the max heat I find personally fun
Can you consistently avoid AP on 40?
unique zephyr
Or what’s the highest heat you don’t take AP on
I only do RI for mirrorless right now
gaunt fiber
Above 40, it's either RI/AP or EM4 to push the heat significantly
Ap1 is not that bad though
On mirrorless you could push higher without AP
But I'm not sure mirrorless EM4 is really fine
edgy arrow
just do 59 heat AP0
gaunt fiber
For a shield why not
unique zephyr
I can handle AP1 probably but staying away from AP2
solemn pulsar
But like 40-50 routed runs- like what's the point
Yeah routed doesn’t really exist outside of max heat or any heat speedruns, since it’s about pushing limits of the game
bright mango
true
But for the ones that push the limits they look amazing
Like the any heat routed nem sword just looked fantastic
unique zephyr
Are seeded and routed runs considered different categories
Because I see the merit of seeding 50
Saves time resetting for first room stuff
gaunt fiber
There's only Unseeded and Seeded
solemn pulsar
But realistically everyone knows a routed run from a “just” seeded run because, again, routed is impossible times or heats
bright mango
I think maybe there is more merit in unseeded because unseeded requires a lot of dedication and time, but after 100+ attempts I just gave in started with deadly strike
shy plinth
It's just different
Seeded runs are held to a higher standard as they should be
I don't feel like either is "easy", it's just a question of the awareness of what kind of run it is vs the results earned
But either way Hades feels like a game that's super execution heavy
The hard part is hitting the buttons well
solemn pulsar
and honestly resetting until you get a good start == seeded run without more than like 5-10 runs on the seed
bright mango
Lol I already have like 5 attempts on my seeded run
solemn pulsar
when resets start to creep up for optimal starts, the line starts to blur
you're on switch and not recording so the distinction really doesn't matter
bright mango
Yeah
solemn pulsar
since anything you share is considered "seeded" by default
bright mango
I got rare deadly strike so I took it
bright mango
since anything you share is considered "seeded" by default
None of my runs have been seeded until this one
I didn't find any joy in seeding until ap2