thats for healing right
#h1-high-heat-strategies
patent isle
eager vortex
okay I think I can manage td2
patent isle
like you off yourself to get health back?
eager vortex
now
unique zephyr
Yeah if you’re under 30%
unique zephyr
Or 80% for patty buff
patent isle
id be so scared of going into the final boss with only one SS and weak boons
or EM4 final boss
unique zephyr
SD makes you have to get way better at bosses, yeah
unique zephyr
You can avoid EM4 even at 40 heat
patent isle
that's true LOL
unique zephyr
No
shy plinth
How long does it take you to hit 3 times with chaos
unique zephyr
DC is very much not free with a timer of any kind
shy plinth
I mean you can run it with fast-hit weapons but chaos isn't that
bright mango
also isn't dc like
No!
unique zephyr
Also giving enemies more time to live means more time for you to take damage
bright mango
It is definitely not
unique zephyr
DC is fine for fists and non Hestia rail
patent isle
DC depends on the weapon id say
unique zephyr
Vastly so
wintry berry
imo DC is not worth the heat until 40
eager vortex
33
eager vortex
unique zephyr
Nice!
shy plinth
Yeah that's v impressive
patent isle
ive only cleared 12 but im stalking this chat for learning to get better
eager vortex
that seems average here since I see a lot of 50 runs here
patent isle
unique zephyr
I’m working on 32 all weps, I have fists rail and bow
patent isle
id say doing 32 heat+ puts you into a very small % of players
unique zephyr
It is easy to lose perspective here
patent isle
what are your fist strategies/go-tos bacchus
unique zephyr
I like zeus on attack and lots of zeus, @mossy zinc has great fist tips, I used dash upper a LOT
And also I didn’t take EM3 for fists
But I had FO2 on
patent isle
AH dash upper
i struggle with it on keyboard rip
mossy zinc
m streaming right now if you want to watch.
patent isle
haha im supposed to be finals studying =w= but i might tune in later
unique zephyr
What’s your twitch username
mossy zinc
Link is in #self-promotion.
unique zephyr
eager vortex
what about ap
unique zephyr
That is my fists 32 clear I did today
eager vortex
is it too harsh for 32
eager vortex
okay
patent isle
nice
unique zephyr
You avoid it at 40 usually
unique zephyr
Even for weapons that it’s fine with like Hestia it’s annoying at best
RI icky
And AP is brutal at worst
waxen relic
Avoiding RI is a really good call ^^
bright mango
Don’t take RI or AP below 45
patent isle
the mirror one looks terrifying
eager vortex
honestly doubt I'll go above 32 atm
patent isle
unique zephyr
That happens
unique zephyr
My 40 heat Hestia attempts died all over the place
bright mango
I thought the same thing
unique zephyr
Me too
bright mango
Nyaanyaa literally told me are you sure about that
unique zephyr
I only did 40 with Hestia but after 32 all weps I’ll try more 40 runs
eager vortex
the voice in your head says "you can do it, keep trying" huh
makes sense cuz I actually never cared for high heat
then I saw the last statue requiring 32
and here we are
patent isle
statue
bright mango
Lol
patent isle
bright mango
I just wanted to do it
bright mango
Now I’m trying to complete 50
eager vortex
I am like okay I am jumping to 32, it can't be that hard since 16 was a breeze
patent isle
for 32+ heat ppl how many escape attempts do you have :0
eager vortex
I was horribly wrong
wintry berry
I didn't count my number of attempts at high heat
bright mango
for 32+ heat ppl how many escape attempts do you have :0
393 attempts
I just checked the water bowl
bright mango
Most of them come from my 50 attempts
wintry berry
I have 1000+ attempts
bright mango
Wow
patent isle
thats awesome nephi
im glad heat is a thing
gives me a reason to push to over 100+ hours in hades lol
wintry berry
Many of them are resets or deaths in nasty BP2 rooms
bright mango
I have 130 hours in the game
waxen relic
I'm slowly clocking towards 600 hours.
unique zephyr
I have around 230 right now
eager vortex
is this okay : hl3 lc4 cf2 js2 cp1 mm uc fo2 dc2 td2
unique zephyr
No plans on stopping right now
unique zephyr
is this okay : hl3 lc4 cf2 js2 cp1 mm uc fo2 dc2 td2
Too many time slowing pacts still
unique zephyr
do you abandon td at high heat
No, high heat forced me to learn TD3
I only had it up to TD2 until I did 32
Take EM3
waxen relic
is this okay : hl3 lc4 cf2 js2 cp1 mm uc fo2 dc2 td2
Would you try out HL5 LC4 EM3 MM UC BP2 TD3 for a few attempts and see how it goes?
unique zephyr
Or at least EM2
eager vortex
okay I removed js2 and took bp
patent isle
i see
unique zephyr
I just realized you’re missing extreme measures
patent isle
yeah EM3 sounds mostly free
eager vortex
I have em3
patent isle
compared to some other stuff
eager vortex
forgot to type it
eager vortex
Would you try out HL5 LC4 EM3 MM UC BP2 TD3 for a few attempts and see how it go...
will do
isn't hl5 dangerous kinda
unique zephyr
Would you try out HL5 LC4 EM3 MM UC BP2 TD3 for a few attempts and see how it go...
This was my first 32 clear pact, would recommend
waxen relic
Without FO not as much
unique zephyr
People who aren’t Retrash avoid EM4 until like 50+
patent isle
what's Retrash
unique zephyr
A player who always does EM4
eager vortex
someone who's good at the game
patent isle
oh dang
eager vortex
I think
patent isle
thats crazy lol
unique zephyr
Yeah he is good at the game especially the EM4 fight
bright mango
At 50+ em4 becomes hell
unique zephyr
EM4 is the hardest individual fight in the game
And also pretty much incompatible with TD3
I never tried EM4 with SD
Sounds like a nightmare
I only ever did EM4 with DDs on very low heat
patent isle
ive done EM4 once
waxen relic
The real nightmare is EM4 without SD
eager vortex
Without FO not as much
I'll do the run with the line up you suggested but I'll prolly run out of time, just saying beforehand
using gy aspect btw
unique zephyr
Tips for time: always take mid shops, chaos skips a room too
waxen relic
No Worries, just take Midshops and Chaos Gates
unique zephyr
So chaos won’t help right before a mid shop
eager vortex
okay
unique zephyr
Also for the second shop the other item is free and a free room as well
Not for first shop though, you see a max of two shops per biome
waxen relic
before Final Shop Chaos doesn't help either
unique zephyr
That’s what I tried to say, yeah
Wait, I should have said
Just realized I didn’t thanks for clarifying
You will have bad runs where you time out in Tartarus sometimes and also the timer is very tight
Don’t be discouraged if it’s hard for you
Clearing rooms efficiently is mostly getting better at the game in general and being smart about boon selection for a good build
waxen relic
is chaos better than a boon?
It skips a combat, but the benefit can also be stronger because you can stack them up with other stuff
waxen relic
and what else is offered, AP levels, rolls ... etc
patent isle
bright mango
And I didn’t get sisyphus or a fountain
eager vortex
20 seconds left before the tartarus boss gate
bright mango
No I died because I was playing to aggressively to beat the timer
eager vortex
waxen relic
Not too bad
eager vortex
encountered 1 chaos
and no shops
and no story
and you know what I was doing good, like the mobs were easy
only if I had tiime
waxen relic
so you see you can do TD3 🙂 not getting shop is quite unlucky
eager vortex
asph is usually pretty fast isn't it
waxen relic
it has less rooms
waxen relic
it is certainly possible to do some TD2 stuff (and more consistent) but getting the clear Speed up to TD3 is a good measure to improve your play too i think
patent isle
rip
gaunt fiber
completed tart with 46 seconds to spare this time
It's really nice
solar maple
People who aren’t Retrash avoid EM4 until like 50+
to be fair retrash doesn't play below 50+ lmao
waxen relic
He did some 45 Streaks with EM4
patent isle
how frustrating is the rng on high heat :o
bright mango
how frustrating is the rng on high heat :o
Very much so
north dove
how high are you talking? as long as you don't turn on AP or RI it's not that bad
bright mango
Like very very frustrating
bright mango
With ap2 and Ri it sucks
patent isle
im currently deciding if working up to 32 is worth it
bright mango
If you use and em4 you don’t have to turn those on
north dove
there's little rng with 32
north dove
if you use a decent pact
patent isle
is the pinned one good
bright mango
But em4 is hard at 50+ so we take AP and RI and pray for the best
patent isle
bright mango
Most of the time the praying does not work
Artemis has given me her stupid Hunter dash 6 times in a row
I’ve given up and just take shackle
north dove
is the pinned one good
yeah pinned one is good
patent isle
tysm for all the tips
solar maple
the main rng for 32 heat is whether or not you get patty (you can win without) and getting a 2-3 sack (which happens most of the time, and 4+ sack is still possible if you go fast)
patent isle
after i finish my ochem final tmrw im gonna try and go for 16 
bright mango
Good luck!
patent isle
ty
bright mango
With both things
unique zephyr
Good luck from me as well! I remember ochem lol
unique zephyr
I was a biochem major so Physical Chemistry which comes after was way worse for me
I didn't like physics very much
Ochem was fine for me
bright mango
I like all the formulas and math behind physics
unique zephyr
That's fair, I think part of it was my physics teachers were horrible
I normally like math and such too
bright mango
Math > everything
patent isle
im a biology major
im ok at math but actually really enjoy ochem
this quarter has just been rough bc of self isolation
hades keeps me company luckily 
solar maple
I'm doing some real analysis right now and I'm kind of lost
everything is an infinite dimensional banach space 
patent isle
sullen minnow
question for those that might know
Does AP1/2 have a mind of its own when it comes to denying you particular boons through rolls? AKA if a particular boon is crossed off, no amount of rerolls is going to uncross it once AP has decided?
unique zephyr
You may be having confirmation bias, often random doesn’t seem random, and the boon pool is usually pretty small. I don’t know for sure but I haven’t seen anything from people who data mine that says AP is not entirely random (outside of standard pseudo rng stuff for any game)
You getting that unlucky isn’t that improbable for AP over lots of runs
sullen minnow
i gotcha. Confirmation is strong. Just never know when something hidden might be tugging on the strings. Years of RNG-based gameplay has made me paranoid in my old age lol
Baj said im seeing ghosts, so im seeing ghosts
gaunt fiber
It's rigged
shy plinth
@dire steppe why would you do this
gaunt fiber
lmao
eager vortex
ah damn I can't kill aste and theseus under 1:30 mins sadly
oh well I went pretty far I guess
gaunt fiber
heat/aspect?
gaunt fiber
Nice aspect buddy
vital grove
Ah not great
vital grove
Did you get charged Skewer?
gaunt fiber
hm?
eager vortex
I just didn't pick any good boons lol I had common aphro attack and doom on special
I could take down aste under 1:30 but not with this build ya
but I can see this heat working
I'll do it eventually
gaunt fiber
I just didn't pick any good boons lol I had common aphro attack and doom on spec...
Just switch them next time :D
mossy zinc
@patent isle pin says DC2 is easy, which is true for like rail and Rama and that's it lol. Don't recommend DC2 at 32.
patent isle
gotcha! ty
vital grove
Yeah a few aspects ignore it but it's not great.
gaunt fiber
Pin does not say that
vital grove
It's not even great on Eris since you can't hit spawns with the special
gaunt fiber
"DC2 (free on Eris, I would argue free on Chiron, but judge based on your chosen aspect)"
mossy zinc
It's listed under easier than others.
mossy zinc
Come back?
gaunt fiber
Yes
mossy zinc
You get to listen to Pyre music. Be grateful.
gaunt fiber
lmao
mossy zinc
Or not because the music paused for some reason lol.
unique zephyr
<@257227111574667264> pin says DC2 is easy, which is true for like rail and Rama...
I used DC2 on my 32 fists clear
mossy zinc
Yeah, but that's your own fault. 
unique zephyr
I only had to try once today for fists 32
My other try was with EM3, I did EM2 with more hard labor instead
dire steppe
i heard someone mention me
gaunt fiber
yes
bright mango
3 sack tiny vermin
I’m so annoyed
This could’ve been it
Got hades to second phase
eternal hare
you got there once you can do it again! I believe!
bright mango
Thanks
Idk
It feels bad
The hades fight could’ve been cleaner
I just got too freaked out by the timer
I have now realized that I like tidal dash > divine dash
sullen minnow
I feel like the line between splash and shield dash is the line between ranged and melee builds in general
bright mango
Splash dash is so nice for tartarus and elysium
Also picking off the little bit of armor left on lernie heads
eager vortex
and I took that personally
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/820779530654187521/hadesss20.png
bright mango
Thicc bolts
gaunt fiber
well
bright mango
I think its quick + massive
gaunt fiber
this hammer combo is reaaaally strong
bright mango
That did the trick
quartz mantle
Quick + massive moment
eager vortex
yes it felt like a good combo
eager vortex
didn't get one single artemis
bright mango
What keepsake?
eager vortex
hp +50
bright mango
Collar!!
eager vortex
yep
bright mango
I mean if that works
eager vortex
cuz gy
gaunt fiber
omg
eager vortex
stupid move ?
bright mango
kinda
gaunt fiber
Well
bright mango
If you reset enough it works
gaunt fiber
You usually want to go god > god
gaunt fiber
I don't think so buddy
The bad thing about collar is you can't take it off
It's just bad
you actually lose the hp
Like you'd take a hit I mean
bright mango
Hades poopoo
eager vortex
mm
also if you've noticed I reduced td2 to td1 and upped dc and js lol
might make me a casul but I just can't with td2
not yet
bright mango
Seriously if you want to push higher in heat practice td3
Other than ledger, I don't know anybody who takes td2 at 50+
And td2 only works with hell mode and em4
eager vortex
td2 is pretty okay for 32 I think
if you are willing to make the mobs a lil harder
which I did
shy gulch
retrash and ledger do TD2 a lot
edgy arrow
Em4 or hell mode
both
shy gulch
tbh I still take TD2 at 40, but once u start going higher it gets tough
you have to do things like EM4 or more RI/AP
edgy arrow
but yeah i wouldn’t worry too much if you can’t manage TD3; it’s the only pact you can learn to play without turning it on
shy gulch
that is true
edgy arrow
you can take td2 if you use either of those
sure; i still think learning TD3 is over prioritised a lot for newer players
shy gulch
TD3 stinky
bright mango
Thats true
unique zephyr
it's a good way to get good at the game
Can confirm I’ve been getting better since I took FO2 and TD3 regularly
bright mango
You can just get better at td3 by playing the game
wintry berry
It's over prioritized bc It's written in the guide
eager vortex
but yeah i wouldn’t worry too much if you can’t manage TD3; it’s the only pact y...
td3 stresses me too much lol
edgy arrow
yeah and that’s fair
unique zephyr
It is a very tight deadline
edgy arrow
yeah the guide also recs LC4
unique zephyr
It’s 6 heat total tho
bright mango
It stresses us out but we have to take it
unique zephyr
I can’t think of many better ways to spend that 6 heat
edgy arrow
TD3 and LC4 at 32 are both no brainers for experienced heat players. For folks doing it for the first time? It depends
bright mango
Yeah
unique zephyr
I found LC4 at 32 fine to get used to
eager vortex
pinned guide says it just takes some practice so it's not really recommended but gives me the vibe that you pretty much should get used to it
bright mango
i mean you should
wintry berry
My first 32 heat clear was with TD1
bright mango
But you don't have to practice it
edgy arrow
I broadly agree with the guide, but a think a couple of the things people like Schad find easy aren’t necessarily the easiest for people doing it the first time
eager vortex
well in my opinion
eris isn't that easy
or I am just not good with it
chiron was ez though
wintry berry
Chiron is beginner friendly
edgy arrow
honestly that isn’t bad, but only because it’s rama haha
wintry berry
Here is the worst 32 pact https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/770315207750320140/820743343645786162/Hades_4.png
Beo players hate me
gaunt fiber
mine is worse
eager vortex
em4 32 incoming ?
gaunt fiber
edgy arrow
honestly the thing that hurts the most isn’t even the AP or CF
it’s the curse of agony and splash dash
gaunt fiber
JS3 CP2 :)
gaunt fiber
yeah
eager vortex
this is mine
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/820240868660609034/hadesss16.png?width=1202&height=676
gaunt fiber
it's ok
bronze viper
HL4 technology
eager vortex
pretty run of the mill chiron
bronze viper
Are these all first 32s or something?
gaunt fiber
yeah
bright mango
Yeah
eager vortex
yep mine was my first
wintry berry
Mine yeah
wintry berry
When i've done my first 32 heat, I wasn't in this discord to have some more useful tips
eager vortex
I took a peek at the pinned post
bright mango
I came on this channel looking for help to do 23 heat
bronze viper
Oh hmm don't have a victory screen. I'll probably have to look through my admin chamber when I get home. Something something boring EA Chaos nonsense
bronze viper
Now I post victory screens for novel boring 1.0 Chaos nonsense.
Lol I think the aspect is really fun now though. Who knows where your damage come from
shy plinth
Bablo knows
unique zephyr
I got 32 heat with spear! This was quite a grind and a very very close run! Timed out during the Heroes fight in Elysium
Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery carried the final boss fight
2 more weapons to go
Got 2 32 heat weapon clears today, good Hades day for me 🙂
bronze viper
:D
unique zephyr
I only had Hyper Delivery vs dad (Got Rush Delivery from Hermes in Styx shop)
I think I'm taking a break for today
unique zephyr
em4 32 incoming ?
My friend got an EM4 32 in hell mode yesterday, FO2 as well
No timer
I watched him do it
TD3 is still rough for me
unique zephyr
I feel like it’s less my skill winning me this and more my builds carrying me, I definitely feel like I’m improving massively though
eager vortex
I feel like it’s less my skill winning me this and more my builds carrying me, I...
skill and build go hand in hand
a bit of both is good
mossy zinc
Making strong builds is a skill.
wanton plover
watching retrash new video with zag sword, how come he did zoos keepsake in tart? what was he aiming for
ive just never seen that before
gaunt fiber
"it just speeds up tartarus so much and zag sword base damage is low enough that you'll need to rely on flat damage boons instead of % based ones"
Quoting him
wanton plover
i see thanks astaos
shy plinth
Do not try to emulate retrash
I have tried to absorb what I can from his content and all I have learned is that he is not human
This is his 51 zag rail clear
eager vortex
I want to ask something
that second stubborn defiance he has in the video
is it from chaos
nvm it's the tooth
I think
unique zephyr
Most likely Athena
eager vortex
tooth or chaos I guess
unique zephyr
Yeah it’s tooth
eager vortex
okie
unique zephyr
It’s definitely tooth
eager vortex
funny thing, he didn't even have to use it in the end
but one can never know I guess
better 2 be safe with that heat
sullen minnow
Coming to think explosive shot is severely underrated on most bows
It doesn’t have the multi-hit that twin shot has going for it, but it’s AOE and burst damage are unparalleled on the attack button once you learn to play it like a single shot grenade launcher rather than a bow
Learning to fire it around corners as an airburst weapon has been huge for me
short sedge
lets go cleared 32 heat
really wasnt that bad once i decided to swallow my pride and turn off EM4
shy plinth
Well done 🙂
wanton plover
thats me with td3
worn current
Does Dionysus' After Party (Restore to a threshold) work favorably with LC4?
wanton plover
i believe it is worthless with lc4
shy plinth
It sells for UC
unique zephyr
After party is completely worthless except to sell on LC4
Strong drink only provides a damage boost
If I go no forced overtime for mirrorless Hestia how long will it take to adjust and when I go back to FO2 for normal how long will it take to adjust back?
I may try Hestia mirrorless 32 but not sure if I should do the other 2 normal 32 first lol
Hestia mirrorless interests me
I’ll need help with the pact though
I’m thinking of mirrorless Demeter fists after Hestia maybe
Idk how well dem fists does mirrorless tho
unique zephyr
@bright mango I said mirrorless not boonless
mirrorless meaning RI4
you have full mirror but boonless, I think you showed me the wrong victory photo
bright mango
Oh mirrorless
unique zephyr
boonless does not interest me currently yeah
sullen minnow
If I go no forced overtime for mirrorless Hestia how long will it take to adjust...
I would council that you're just going to develop a good game sense over time that's going to help you automatically adjust between FO0-1-2. You'll start subconsciously picking up on little things like animation cues that will give your brain more context to work with than just raw timing muscle memory
bright mango
boonless does not interest me currently yeah
Boonless 32 is a lot harder than you think
unique zephyr
Boonless 32 is a lot harder than you think
I didn't say easy or hard
it's just what I feel like doing
i don't do things I don't think I'd like
my playtime is too short for that
bright mango
Ok
sullen minnow
Mostly spending time doing FO2 will make everything else feel like molasses, which will be helpful for you
unique zephyr
I just would like to try mirrorless regardless of which one is easier
edgy arrow
yeah i don’t find boonless that interesting either
unique zephyr
I've been doing FO2 all the time lately
shy gulch
boons make the game fun
which is kinda why im averse to 50+ as well, at that point its not qutie boonless but its like
1-2 boons total
lmao
bronze viper
That's AP2 lol
shy gulch
yeah
edgy arrow
it’s objectively a good challenge run category in the sense that it’s different to regular play and hard, but it also just feels slow paced and boring to me
bright mango
Ap2 is literally boonless lol
shy gulch
which i equate to around 50+, since i dont think u have to take it until then
unique zephyr
also mirrorless is way easier to "set up" since it can be hard to not have a run benefiting boon of some kind
while for mirrorless I just max RI
edgy arrow
Ap2 is literally boonless lol
not really; you don’t have to reset if you accidentally get an attack boon
bright mango
For most of the run for me its boonless
Because the boons I get are useless
Then I die to a chariot
bronze viper
lmao
edgy arrow
if you could jus disable boons i’d probably be more interested in boonless
bronze viper
In practice you typically get 1-2 very good boons during a run with AP2
bright mango
Thats true
sullen minnow
I've been doing FO2 all the time lately
Certain pieces of a former work life of mine correlate pretty directly to the FO0-2 situation. I can confidently say from experience that playing at a higher "clock" speed will just make slower speeds plain easier, and its not usually that hard to readjust yourself when the speed turns back up
edgy arrow
In practice you typically get 1-2 very good boons during a run with AP2
yeah this
shy gulch
yeah thats true its much easier to start a mirrorless run
also what ledger said is true yeah
ap2 is just a 1-2 boon game
bronze viper
It just feels like 0 because you don't get to decide when and from which god you get them lol
edgy arrow
yeah it’s not that all your boons are bad, it’s more that you don’t know which decent boons you’ll get lol
yeah exactly
unique zephyr
Certain pieces of a former work life of mine correlate pretty directly to the FO...
Ah ok, that makes sense, that's great to know! Do you have any tips for mirrorless 32 pacts?
meaning with RI4
wintry berry
I would remove HL and LC at least
sullen minnow
Lol I'm not brave enough for mirrorless anything yet
I would think you'd want to avoid FO like the plague for it, being you don't have 2 dashes
sullen minnow
And something safe like bow or gun or zeus shield
unique zephyr
I'm planning Hestia
sullen minnow
Yeah that's prob yer best bet
unique zephyr
Sorry about that
mossy zinc
That if you want to take TD3.
sullen minnow
Yeah that looks good ^^^^
unique zephyr
Ah ok, thanks, Nyaanyaa
sullen minnow
Ri4 is a lot of heat wow
edgy arrow
huh i didn’t realise you ran TD3 for your boonless mirrorless
mossy zinc
I take TD3 for near everything.
edgy arrow
i’ve only done boonless mirrorless hestia once, and that was only at 8 heat, but it felt really slow
can’t remember my time but i prolly would’ve timed out at TD3
shy gulch
really? boonless hestia is pretty much the same as 50 heat hestia LOL
sullen minnow
Lol indeed
shy gulch
click reload click shoot
sullen minnow
With js0 your damage isnt outrageous but it's not anything to sneeze at either
edgy arrow
really? boonless hestia is pretty much the same as 50 heat hestia LOL
is it tho
sullen minnow
300 per shot is basically better zag bow with no crits
shy gulch
yeah for hestia specifically i just take shackle and let the winds guide me
sullen minnow
Hestia dgaf
edgy arrow
that doesn’t make it the same as boonless tho
shy gulch
since shackle hestia can carry you basically all the way through the entire run
its not but its close enough that i just tossed the comparison out
edgy arrow
fair ig
shy gulch
its obviously not actually the same
edgy arrow
idk i’m pretty bad at hestia anyway tbh
unique zephyr
If I want TD2 would I put extra points into Hard Labor or what
edgy arrow
still haven’t managed 50
sullen minnow
Maaaaan
unique zephyr
right now the one dash feels slow
mossy zinc
I dunno. Look what other people have done. I always take TD3 for mirrorless.
sullen minnow
If you want td2 as well
unique zephyr
Ah right, people have posted runs, I'll take a look, thanks! TD3 is probably fine if I get used to mirrorless
sullen minnow
Yeah td3 really should be fine
unique zephyr
just wanted to know in case, but I'll look at other submissions first if I decide TD2
sullen minnow
If base hestia and a decent hammer is all you get you've still got good damage with the shackle
mossy zinc
TD3 is fine you get an early sack.
unique zephyr
No forced overtime feels like slow motion so far
mossy zinc
That's the point.
unique zephyr
Hestia is performing even better than I thought mirrorless so far
but I'm early tartarus
but I've had rougher early tartaruses with other weapon 32s with mirror
no really bad BP combos yet though
Just beat Alecto, yay
mossy zinc
Good luck!
patent isle
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/782268720479207474/H...
wow
thats insane!
shy plinth
Lady Nyaanyaa is known for her boonless mirrorless shenanigans
unique zephyr
Just beat Lernie
and thanks, Nyaanyaa!
FO0 head slams are so much nicer to deal with
gonna take a break for now, let's see how this run goes tomorrow
Hope no one minds me live blogging mirrorless
dire steppe
i’m gonna attempt 62 heat with fists, wish me luck
it should be free cause i’m gonna take CP1 and HL4
unique zephyr
Good luck!
shy plinth
GLHF
unique zephyr
Why not HL5
bronze viper
It's a meme
dire steppe
sadly on other weapons you have to take RI3
unique zephyr
What’s the meme, I don’t get it
dire steppe
but not fists. they’re op
dire steppe
when did he did 62?
unique zephyr
Unless 62 isn’t the meme but HL, I don’t know the lore
dire steppe
i thought it was 60
mossy zinc
dire steppe
“when did he do 62?” “With Rama”
unique zephyr
I’m tired :/
shy plinth
I'm sure Tail will actually get 62 in the near future if he's still pushing it
After midterms
unique zephyr
I don’t know why I thought you asked what weapon aspect lol
bronze viper
... Oh. I sat down with intent to learn Zoospect today and roflstomped the first 45 I did. This aspect is kind of dumb.
shy gulch
zeus shield i assume
dire steppe
oh that makes sense
shy plinth
I assumed it was Beo Wolf
bronze viper
Unless 62 isn’t the meme but HL, I don’t know the lore
A while back, someone claimed they did 62 heat with Fists 3x with HL4 + CP1, and that they would post victory screens when they got home from work. As of yet they are still at work.
Okie doke, I guess we're figuring out 50 right away then.
(streaming in case you wanted to watch me get my teeth kicked in by superdad)
Not there yet though lol
unique zephyr
A while back, someone claimed they did 62 heat with Fists 3x with HL4 + CP1, and...
That’s hilarious lmao
Genuinely laughed
Is it weird that I’m really starting to appreciate dark foresight now
That and the extra dash are the main things I miss so far (and the safety net of a defy, of course)
I’m getting far fewer boons and other goodies
It’s easy to sleep on dark foresight when you’re newer I think
shy gulch
yeah i definitely did myself
bright mango
It has been 2 weeks since blank referenced the 62 clear
mossy zinc
Who is blank?
bright mango
Anyone
Cgull had a meme thing where it was “it has been zero days since bright01 referenced the 63 clear
sweet merlin
oh higher heat, which weapon is the easiest?
shy plinth
The one you know best
sweet merlin
that will be the Chiron Cheese then
shy plinth
You can absolutely 32 with chiron
Just a question of practice and making sure your pact is reasonable
sweet merlin
and for sword (something I want to also focus on), is the hidden aspect the best?
shy plinth
Depends who you ask, I think a lot of folks would say poseidon
But again it's really what you're comfortable with, every aspect is more than capable of clearing 32
Just make sure you adjust your pact
Damage control is super easy on Eris or whatever but is a no go for Arthur
sweet merlin
ahh okay, the pinned message shoud help me on the pact right
so LC4 is always optimal? Technically just don't get hit then?
wanton plover
get stubborn defiance
with death defiance, you never wanna get hit. bc it’ll impact the whole run. you get all your health at the start.
with SD you get a health allowance per room.
shy plinth
Yeah it's reliable healing and lets you play rooms pretty freely
Just gotta have clean bosses
sweet merlin
ahh okay, but that means on Hades boss how will the SD work? (I tried yesterday with LC maxed, I died like 3x and had to use DD 3x on Hades level)
wanton plover
i always lose my sd in like chamber 3
yes it makes bosses muchharder rhats true
but at least we can get to the boss in the first place
solar maple
There is also the extra DD trick
sweet merlin
i only struggle on Theseus Minotaur Boss and Hades Boss even with LC maxed, does that mean I should just do DD then?
wanton plover
well with lc4 always do sd
solar maple
And make sure to take acorn into Styx for the final boss
sweet merlin
i'm not at a super high heat yet*
wanton plover
if you do dd just domt do lc
solar maple
If you are below 30 or so stick with dds
Mid 30s its optional
Then sds are pretty clearly better in the 40s imo
sweet merlin
is Chiron better taking the Aphrodite Atk first or Artemis Special first?
wanton plover
patroclus also helps a lot with sd lol
sweet merlin
i'm still at 20 heat now, will start trying out LC SD to get used to it then
sweet merlin
do you guys also pick specific keepsakes or go for the dodge/atk when not hit OR the pom level one?
eternal hare
usually do god keepsakes to help work towards a build you have in mind, typically through tartarus and asphodel
after that it kinda depends on you, but I personally enjoy doing tooth in elysium and acorn in styx
charon can also be good if you benefit greatly from wells
true fable
pierced butterfly is pretty terrible
usually if you need global damage people will go skull earring
dire steppe
if you don't need global damage you go distant memory
bronze viper
if you don't need global damage you go distant memory
uh
maybe you go distant memory lmao
dire steppe
what i'm saying is
if you need to guarantee you won't get global damage
you use distant memory
shy plinth
I believe rigged is saying that distant memory is the same as not having a keepsake equipped
mossy zinc
It's like a distant memory of a keepsake.
shy plinth
unique zephyr
I’ve had good luck with acorn in both elysium and styx for 32
I do hope not to run into asterius as a mini boss though especially with acorn since it doesn’t help there
unique zephyr
Died to the final boss due to timer in mirrorless 32 Hestia attempt. How do I fight any faster!?
dire steppe
special and cast during reload
bronze viper
It's damage
main delta
ughhh this is the 3rd time ive died to the deadline and im using td2
dire steppe
with ri4 and uc it’s basically boneless
unique zephyr
should I just use shackle then?
i forced aphro attack for weak
it was good mitigation
and it worked until dad
dire steppe
idk i’m not an expert
unique zephyr
ughhh this is the 3rd time ive died to the deadline and im using td2
What pacts are you using? Jury Summons and Calisthenics Program can add more time than you'd think
also damage control on most aspects
unique zephyr
JS3 is why
It slows you down a LOT
more waves mean more spawn times
and there are a LOT more enemies to kill
main delta
gotcha
a lot of the time the build just sucks
im trying to get used to not using charged skewer all the time since i can't seem to get it
solar maple
I would not use shackle start unless you have AP2 (or AP1 and RI and hate resetting on a wep that needs multiple core boons but can't start with one of them)
that last part is just my excuse to go shackle beo lol
unique zephyr
Any tips for tight deadline 3 mirrorless? I'm not sure if TD2 JS3 is better
for mirrorless
trying that now but SO MANY enemies for JS3
bronze viper
Are you still ignoring your special?
solar maple
using hestia?
unique zephyr
Yeah
bronze viper
You definitely need to learn how to use your special. Roughly once every 2 or 3 attacks, depending on positioning
It's a lot of damage, and scales insanely well with hammers
unique zephyr
I assume aphro on special is good?
I'll try TD3 again
I have been badly neglecting special
solar maple
aphro/arty are both good on special
unique zephyr
somehow I got away with it with mirror 40 lol
but not mirroless 32
i got away with it until dad
solar maple
but honestly any decent +% special is good to pick up
something like demeter/athena special will do in a pinch
unique zephyr
I did have time problems in general vs bosses specifically
so I'll work on putting special in rotation
I'm really appreciating dark foresight
the rooms are so bad without it lol
how did I ever live without DF
with one dash it feels like Zagreus is limping across the screen
solar maple
yeah you really don't know how good DF is until it's gone
unique zephyr
i have so few boons to sell for UC now
shy plinth
And none of them are pommed
unique zephyr
RI1 sounds like a huge trap tbh
shy plinth
More nectar for bouldy tho
unique zephyr
I'm only doing RI4 because mirrorless lol
solar maple
all the RIs are a trap lol
unique zephyr
RI seems like it mostly exists for mirrorless challenge
shy plinth
I think RI1 is probs the most significant single heat tick on the pact
solar maple
nah that's RI4
unique zephyr
more so than HS?
shy plinth
Yeah okay RI4 is fair
unique zephyr
well, HS is just damage I guess
shy plinth
Both are ridiculous
shy plinth
SD is not that bad
unique zephyr
I only have done LC4
shy plinth
I mean you've been running on it
unique zephyr
yeah I found SD easy to adjust to
shy plinth
RI4 means zero defiance lol
unique zephyr
LC4 actually isn't that bad
solar maple
yeah if you are running it it almost certainly isn't the worst heat on the pact lol
unique zephyr
Everything feels much slower with forced overtime gone
FO2 makes the game so much harder lol
solar maple
RI2 is the least punishing one
unique zephyr
but I'm glad I put it on, it feels like the weights are off now
and like I can dodge easier even with only one dash
solar maple
and that one loses you 50 hp, 100 gold, and ~20% global damage
unique zephyr
like the tells are easier to perceive
shy plinth
Lolol yeah
solar maple
which a pretty rough 2 heat
main delta
when im not using fo2 i get hit by hades's big swings all the time
shy plinth
You know RI is a nightmare when that's the "easy one"
unique zephyr
I didn't have trouble with Hades's swings that much
it was more so positioning and doing damage with only one dash
I really need to practice attack -> reload -> special rotation
vital grove
Going Fo2 to to fo0 is like Goku dropping his weighted clothing
unique zephyr
It felt exactly like that
Hopefully I can readjust once I go back to FO2
i think I can given a bit of time lol
since I'm decently familiar with FO2 now
so it's relearning more so than learning, right?
enemies that are normally jokes are menaces in FO2
the inferno bomber enemies, wavemakers and bonerakers in asphodel
Lernie's head slams are much harder in FO2 as well for me
solar maple
you can definitely readjust pretty quickly
unique zephyr
Ah ok, so the advice to keep it on for a while and not switching is just to get used to it
I did face tiny vermin as first mini boss chamber in mirrorless styx, that fight was so slow for me
Is tiny vermin meant to be slow without mirror
No dark foresight and UC meant my build was trash for damage later on
main delta
i feel like vermin is always slow with hestia
bronze viper
Oof. I'm salting pretty hard. Need to take a break. Died 2x to EM4 on 50 with Zeus due to bad play. Gave RI2 a shot, missed Thunder Flourish 7 times in a row in Tartarus.
unique zephyr
Bad luck that I ran into vermin for my mirrorless lol, but killing Theseus and asterius was slow mirrorless too
Much slower than with a mirror
Does dark foresight really make my builds that much better or is this just confirmation bias
bronze viper
Probably column A column B
It definitely does make builds way better but yeah, you could be having a bad streak
Rerolls + Dark Foresight means your build kind of always just works out
unique zephyr
Yeah that’s been my experience using rerolls and such
I get reasonably powerful builds pretty often
I did only try one real full RI run though and I did get to dad phase 2
So I know I can pull this off
bronze viper
Yeah, RI and AP basically force you to use closer and closer to just the base weapon. And Hestia is one of the strongest base weapons
bronze viper
Lol, one of the losses was Hyper Delivery Splitting Bolt
bronze viper
Yeah I rarely win runs with it lmao
solar maple
Wait I just realized I have a clear with every RI level except 2
Which is the one most weapons take lol
distant sequoia
Best weapon for heats?
distant sequoia
Oh okay
I made it up to heat 11
With Gilgamesh
Just soaking merciful end
I just don’t know how well it’ll do high heats
patent isle
what's beo :o
shy plinth
Anything can clear 32
The high heat runners in here are pushing 40s and 50s and that's a very different world
But gilga ME is a totally fine build at 32
shy plinth
Kinda
shy plinth
It's up to 20 bounties per weapon
shy plinth
dont you have AP2 at that point
I think generally yes but not always, that's a question for the good players when they wake up 😉
Aspect does not matter no
patent isle
i see
distant sequoia
dont you have AP2 at that point
What’s ap2
shy plinth
But if you target prophecies and push your bounties it isn't hard to max all aspects
Just takes time
Approval Process 2
distant sequoia
Lol i didn’t get that far yet I guess
distant sequoia
Is that when the bosses have extra abilities
shy plinth
No it crosses out 2/3 boons on each selection screen
shy plinth
Pure skill
distant sequoia
How would you approach that
shy plinth
If you depend on luck running 50+ you insta die
The videos are pinned in the heat sheet 🙂
Feel free to watch them
These players are very good at hades
shy plinth
Yeah there's a ton of documentation in here
distant sequoia
Even the heat 64 video ?
shy plinth
Baj's 64 heat run was seeded and routed, not sure if he submitted it
It's amazing though
true fable
its verified on SRC
i verified it last week i think
should be under the 50+ heat seeded category
shy plinth
It's a pretty incredible accomplishment
Also I continue to be amazed by how much work it takes to verify all these runs
I feel like I would lean into just getting them on the board and if they're sketchy someone will say something
But the speedrunners have been doing things this way for so long, I'm sure the verification thing is normal
vital grove
Gilga ME should still be fine on 40
spice lava
Aspects are not equal at 50 but people like Tailesque, Hadesprof showed that clearing at 50 is doable with any aspect
However the number of needed resets won't be the same: some aspects are more flexible than others (the amount of resets will be tough still)
RNG matters but experience does as well
shy gulch
yeah once u get to 40+, some aspects will def be noticeably easier than others
though comfort is still an important part of the whole process
true fable
gilga ME is pretty EZPZ on 40 yeah
gilga in general is pretty dece at 40
i frames for days
spice lava
Gilga isn't fist aspect, it's claw aspect like the 7th weapon, you don't even punch your enemies 😏
Anyway, back to the 50's talk, 50 is the floor where you need to understand your aspect to deal DPS with poor build, saving your hp bar and escaping floors in time
vital grove
Yeah 50 is very hard.
spice lava
It's a lot to know but it's like Poker in a certain way: if you're a beginner a lot of seeds are deadly but the more you play the more seeds become playable
vital grove
You have to dodge perfectly, you have to maximize your dps
And you can still just run out of time on a 4 sack or die to a random trap
spice lava
But even with experience, the number of finishable seeds is still low
And you really need to understand what you can do with your aspect to get a 50 pact adapted to your abilities
Some aspects suck with TD3 at 50