h1-high-heat-strategies

[north dove]

thanks 😛

[shy plinth]

Also it's a bummer grinding out the weapon and dying to timer over and over

[unique zephyr]

Grats on the 50, Retrash!

[shy plinth]

How many splitting headache crits do you think you triggered over the course of the run

[north dove]

🤷‍♂️ I'll be honest I don't even know how the boon actually works LOL

[shy plinth]

I don't know if I've ever seen a build that wanted dio call as much as this one

More hangover stacks = more crit chance

[north dove]

global crit or just on hangover?

[shy plinth]

Global

[shy gulch]

global

[shy plinth]

I am guessing it still did not trigger frequently

[north dove]

huh

[unique zephyr]

Is tooth better than acorn for EM4 with stubborn?

[shy plinth]

Depends how good you are at dealing with phase 1, but probs?

[unique zephyr]

And what’s the best EM4 keepsake for DDs?

[shy plinth]

Probably still the same? I guess you could spearpoint

[shy gulch]

tooth is considered more consistent bc some of the phase 1 adds just instantly pop acorn

though if you get good adds, acorn is better

retrash can talk abt spear point lmao

[shy plinth]

Retrash can talk about em4 in general

[north dove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/820207859228475392/unknown.png it's impossible to keep acorn charges during phase 1 if you get bad summons

like this

[shy plinth]

Yeah butterfly balls are a disaster

But you know what'll deal with those butterfly balls

A lil SLAP AND ZAP

[north dove]

^

[shy plinth]

Dash nova those little flutters

[bronze viper]

In my Chiron practice save I hit phase 2 with 3 acorn charges left. I peaked. I'll never attain that level of play again

[shy plinth]

Sneak or doomstone

[north dove]

except you get staggered as soon as you try to dash nova 🙃 and then you cry

[shy plinth]

False, I would cry as soon as I had to pick dash nova

[mossy zinc]

It makes sense if you look at the timer.

[shy plinth]

I don't know what you mean

Did you see those hammers lol?

I know Retrash does td2

I do not believe I would clear EM4 on cursed slash dash nova with TD0

[mossy zinc]

Sturdy from Dash Nova is very nice.

[shy plinth]

Sure, but I think it's reasonable to call it atypical for a 50 clear or an em4 clear

Tbh I think if I had a save state of that exact build just for that fight at ten heat - literally just EM4 - I would die

[mossy zinc]

Because you're used to seeing high DPS builds that clear TD3 with time to spare.

[shy plinth]

I tried to watch retrash vods

It is a universe that my feeble brain cannot comprehend

[mossy zinc]

lol

[bronze viper]

Lol, I don't think DPS is really the big concern for EM4 FO2

If I had a perfect build and TD0 I don't think I could do it with most aspects

[shy plinth]

The DPS from dad is a big concern

Yeah same

[shy gulch]

I’m not used to seeing high DPS builds at 50 heat, I’m used to seeing hammers that don’t brick ur build

sword moment

[shy plinth]

"Hey you know what would make EM4 FO2 easier? Suddenly playing guan yu"

[mossy zinc]

But you heal 2 HP with every hit instead of 1.

[shy plinth]

https://tenor.com/bblys.gif

[mossy zinc]

Honestly, Cursed Slash can be very nice.

[north dove]

cursed slash = better guan yu confirmed

[shy plinth]

2 hp heal?

Cursed slash = Guan 2

[shy gulch]

LOL

[mossy zinc]

Punny.

[shy gulch]

ok that was good

[shy plinth]

Thank you I'll be here all week

[solar maple]

ok I hate chaos shield

the inconsistency about how long it takes for the special to come back is just so annoying

sometimes it comes right back and you can block/attack

and sometimes it decides to go on a nice tour of the Mediterranean before paying you another visit

[vital grove]

And if you take Aphrodite you can be here all weak.

[gaunt fiber]

It's amazing how good you are at making the same joke but in a different context

[shy plinth]

The secret is to say the word 2 in multiple languages

Double your humor

[gaunt fiber]

takes notes

[vital grove]

Guan Du

[celest grail]

entering dad fight with 3 health on 40 heat hestia 🙂

[quartz mantle]

You got this ez

[bright mango]

Ggs

You got this

[celest grail]

lol already lost

but i made some pretty decent progress

had him at like half health on 2nd phase

[bright mango]

Nice

Keep going

[vital grove]

Hestia good.

[bright mango]

Hestia bestia

[bronze viper]

Agreed. I've started using Drunken Flourish because it incentivizes shotgunning, so you can shield right afterwards. Using the RI0 pact you can also high roll duos still. I made it to superdad twice with Zeus but this feels a little better for the time being. We'll see how bad the damage falloff in Elysium feels

[neon willow]

Hi everyone, I wanted to know if it was possible to finish the game with all the heats?

[bright mango]

Baj has done it

[wintry berry]

It is, but it's near impossible to do, at the moment only a routed run is done

[bright mango]

But that was routed

[neon willow]

Ok thanks. It's so hard when you have 7 minutes and you have no power.

Anyone know if there are any dlcs planned for the game?

[bright mango]

Not 7 minutes

5 minutes

[halcyon flame]

(((sort of??)))

[bright mango]

Yeah

Routed

[halcyon flame]

i wonder if unseeded 64 heat will ever be done

probably not but it's fun to think about

[edgy arrow]

its conceivable honestly

people only getting better at this game

but yeah i wouldn't be surprised if it never happens lol

we'll see unseeded 62 at some point tho

[edgy arrow]

SGG isn't known for doing DLCs

nothing's been announced, and its unlikely that will change

[bright mango]

I hate asterius

I despise him

[halcyon flame]

theseus is still worse

how bad theseus is as a guy heavily outweighs em3 asterius as a boss

[bright mango]

True

I agree

No i hate asterius as a miniboss

Not as a boss

[eager vortex]

what's the right companion to use at LC4 ?

[mossy zinc]

Why not use Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish if you want to shotgun?

[honest kernel]

any companion except bouldy 🤔

[halcyon flame]

deadly flourish on any bow other than chiron is smelly

[edgy arrow]

any flourish on any bow other than chiron is smelly tbh

[mossy zinc]

Chaos Aspect, not bow.

[edgy arrow]

well, maybe not actively “smelly” but it’s not like it’s gonna do anything lol

[mossy zinc]

Rama wants to have a word with you.

[edgy arrow]

rama is barely a bow

it’s a whole different thing

[bronze viper]

So you can do it once and forget about it. Also because DC2

[mossy zinc]

That's true. Rama really isn't a bow at all, in fact.

The Aspect of Rama is a bow, however.

[edgy arrow]

lmao

got me there

[mossy zinc]

But it's not pink.

[bronze viper]

It's actually pretty close to pink lol

[mossy zinc]

Close, but not pink.

[edgy arrow]

how close pink is to purple is kind of a messy question from a colour theory perspective

purple is weird and not really real

[neon willow]

thanks for the answers

[bronze viper]

From a distance I can't differentiate easily between Dio and Aphro boons

at least the cores

[edgy arrow]

fair

[mossy zinc]

You're not really real.

[gaunt fiber]

but the cyborg powers

[mossy zinc]

Computer, end Emergency Guan Yu Holographic program.

[edgy arrow]

maybe, but at least i exist on the visible light spectrum

the same cannot be said for purple

[mossy zinc]

I don't think you do. I've never seen you.

[bronze viper]

Strimming 50 Chaos, in Styx if anyone wants to watch me choke :3

[sullen minnow]

You haven’t got a twitch in your bio 👀

[bronze viper]

Whoopsie doopsie. Should be now :3

[unique zephyr]

Which is harder mirrorless or boonless

And how do people even do boonless

[mossy zinc]

Boonless means you're not allowed to benefit from any boon in your run.

You can take boons and sell them, but if you benefit from them in any other way, your run is invalid.

Don't know which is harder, but I think mirrorless is a lot more fun.

[bronze viper]

Which leaves Hermes in a weird spot because you're forced to take Hermes basically every run

[mossy zinc]

Boonless is pretty bland.

[bronze viper]

And some aspects can't not benefit from Hermes in some small way

[mossy zinc]

Nah, he shows up, but you can skip him most times.

Fated Authority and not taking Dark Foresight also help.

[bronze viper]

Oh oh oh, Authority, completely forgot that existed

Yeah fair point that helps immensely

[mossy zinc]

Maybe you just don't have the authority.

[true fable]

mirrorless definitely is more challenging imo

[bright mango]

Mirrorless

At high heat boonless is easier

Because the mirror is too important

Shackle is basically cheating with hestia

[shy plinth]

Limited damage is way less problematic than no defiances, 1 dash, no boon boosters, no rerolls, no DF, and 50 less health

And also the complete elimination of cast builds

[bright mango]

Timed out to heroes again

0 fountains and no than

[lucid wave]

:feelsshademan:

[sullen minnow]

boonless basically caps your end-run damage with any viable build. it's a handicap but something you can live with and play around. Mirrorless completely drops the floor out from under every one of your safety cushions. Particularly the last 2 levels. No DD, no double dash, no anything

rip pengy

ima try to get 40 done with zag for bow

[bright mango]

I had a level 1 common athena attack

Not too disappointed

[sullen minnow]

cause mama aint raise no patroclus

[gaunt fiber]

Mirrorless also kills your damage tbh

All aspects not being equal of course

[mossy zinc]

RI4 can make up for most of the things you lose with boons, and you still have access to powerful builds like Merciful End, Smoldering Air, etc.

Boonless relies on keepsakes and items for damage.

Which is really just Shackle and items.

[shy plinth]

And also is aspect limited

But yes both are hard for sure

Mirrorless just scares me

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah, I was mostly thinking about Guan Yu's (surprising) Tartarus

And the fact that permanent death may affect your gameplay

Well it's not permanent but you get the idea

[mossy zinc]

Didn't I shut you down?

Computer, end Emergency Guan Yu Holographic program.

[bright mango]

Artemis has not given me her stupid attack boon in like 15 runs

I kid you not

I make it to elysium without an attack boon and realize how screwed I am

[mossy zinc]

That's happened to @daring hedge a number of times.

His solution, as far as I know, was to be Tailesque.

[bright mango]

Makes sense

I, however, am not tailesque

[mossy zinc]

There's always Shackle if you need reliable Attack damage.

[waxen relic]

I tried the biggest scam today. Worked. Only got Jolted and extra Dashes at the end of Styx. Wasn't too much Stygius thankfully. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/820414492642639882/20210313225245_1.jpg

It is recorded but it'll take a while till i can upload it.

[mossy zinc]

Nice!

Very good Zag Sword run.

[waxen relic]

Hey, i had 25 extra damage against beefier Tart enemies

[bright mango]

I can get though tartarus without an attack boon

[mossy zinc]

And evidently through Asphodel.

[bright mango]

Yeah

But elysium is a problem

So I reset for artemis attack

[mossy zinc]

I was talking about after that if you don't have an Attack boon.

[bright mango]

Yeah

I could

That’s actually a really smart idea since I can go most elysium chambers without dying and timer is my main problem

Shackle would definitely help

[bronze viper]

Yeah, it's a cost. If you improve your play in other axes, like not dying, you can afford to do greedier stuff like take Shackle or whatever to improve damage

On Chaos 50 I kind of universally take Skull Earring into Elysium+ for that reason lol. Have to beat the TD2 timer somehow (sigh)

Wow, holy cow this happened twice today. On stream. A cloner enemy just kind of exists, didn't disapparate when I killed the original, and is causing the room to not end.

[unique zephyr]

Athena cast is good for Achilles spear at 32 heat right?

[bronze viper]

I already F10'd it but this is kind of unbelievable lol

[unique zephyr]

How fun is mirrorless, btw

[bronze viper]

Fun is a relative concept :3

[unique zephyr]

Nice job with the clear!

[mossy zinc]

I think 32 mirrorless is a lot of fun. Higher can become stressful.

Depends on aspect, too.

[unique zephyr]

I imagine Hestia is hurt a bit less by mirrorless than many other aspects

I still need to do 32 normal with the 4 other weapons first, though. Malphon and Stygius scare me though

And the ranged options of bow and rail are already done

[solar maple]

I take shackle later into the run if I get arty dash in speedruns sometimes

with nem and such

[wind bough]

hell yea i did it gamers

https://youtu.be/TczgDpaYfJ0

[bright mango]

Gratz!!

[solar maple]

[light stag]

Does that level 9 Drunken Strike do anything on Rama?

[shy plinth]

You are an outlier lol

[bright mango]

Nooooooo

Like wat

[solar maple]

That's aphro attack I think

So yes

[bright mango]

Level 9 heroic attack👀

[wind bough]

yes

[wind bough]

It was aphro attack

aphro adds the most damage to attack so it was pretty neat

it was at like +150%ish i think?

[unique zephyr]

Having a really hard time with Aspect of Hades for spear right now, furthest I got for my 32 was Meg

Any tips for Hades spear?

what gods are good on attack for hades spear?

[bright mango]

Use serrated point or exploding launcher

Artemis is always good

[solar maple]

Serrated point can be quite risky

[unique zephyr]

Spear seems very hammer reliant

[solar maple]

You generally want to take enemies with a spin then finish them with exploading launcher or dash strikes

If you want better advise for hades spear there is only one person who can give it tbh

@daring hedge

My hades 40 was just carried by Athena boons tbh

[daring hedge]

yeah high heat hades spear is kind of about making the most of its kit regardless of whether you get good hammers or not

so always apply spin, use the dash tech and use mini spins most of the time

the advice above is pretty much accurate

serrated and exploding are great, and artemis on attack is good

[unique zephyr]

Artemis is good on special if I get a good special hammer right?

[daring hedge]

absolutely

[wintry berry]

My 40 heat hades clear was with charged skewer + exploding but it require some high roll on hammers

[solar maple]

I think my clear was with spin hammers

Quite a few hammers can work on hades

Its not just flurry or bust like achilles

[bronze viper]

Lmao this is like some 14th degree blackbelt technology to tilt @daring hedge.

[daring hedge]

hey come on i was doing a very good job of pretending i didn't see that message

[torn vapor]

[bronze viper]

I'll work on Dio attack Arty Special Rama at 50.

Hmm... If you get triple shot you can shotgun 3 stacks in one attack.

[wanton plover]

5head

[true fable]

ok nah heres what i was theorycrafting

if you have triple shot

and the shotguns with triple shot

it should give you 2x knockback

if the knockback is a vector

[edgy arrow]

uh oh it’s drunken strike double edge arthur 2 electric boogaloo

[shy plinth]

Double drunk OP

[edgy arrow]

now that triple drunk has been discovered, nothing stands a chance

[unique zephyr]

Just beat Elysium on my current spear 32 attempt...barely but still!

[patent isle]

nice :D

[unique zephyr]

I had 9 seconds on the timer left so I’ll need a 2 sack probably

2 sack mentality

[edgy arrow]

if you believe in the 2 sack, the 2 sack will believe in you

wait no that’s bouldy

man imagine if ambiguity secretly effected sack rng

lowkey actually believable

[bright mango]

What does ambiguity bonus do?

I’ve gotten it once

[unique zephyr]

I think literally nothing?

[solar maple]

It does everything

Seriously though, yeah it has no effect

[bright mango]

Ok lol

[shy plinth]

It boosts your self esteem knowing you gave a nectar to bouldy without needing anything in return

A pure selfless gesture

[edgy arrow]

i actually ran out of nectar yesterday

just from gifting bouldy

idk how this happened lmao

[unique zephyr]

I always trade nectar to the broker so I can get titan’s blood quicker

[solemn pulsar]

Ur a vector

[true fable]

:^)

[patent isle]

is the epic mirror or legendary/duo mirror upgrade more relevant for high heat

[shy plinth]

Pride is default, legacy is needed for beo or merciful end

Both have uses but I think most folks run pride most of the time

[unique zephyr]

What duos/legendaries does beo like

[solemn pulsar]

Mirage above all else

If you have dio cast scint feast is nice but not necessary

Artemis legendary is great but not worth the trouble

Sweet nectar is kinda good for pomming casts, but nothing to go out of yo ur way to get

[shy plinth]

Yeah legacy is only on if you need a duo to make the build work

Which I think is really just ME and mirage shot

Trying to think of any other actually relevant build around duos at 40ish

But I dunno I don't think anyone is hard gunning for smoldering air, just if it comes up

Epic core boons are so clutch

[bronze viper]

Inb4 spread drunk Eris.

[true fable]

regular drunk eris does fine

[shy plinth]

Spread doom Eris pls

Merciful end spread fire Eris

Let's go

[solar maple]

drunk cluster rockets is full stacks instantly

pretty broken

[true fable]

or dire

with doom special

50 damage

at common

[bronze viper]

Geeeeez Dire Misfortune Impending Doom Cluster Rockets.

[shy plinth]

The only thing missing there

CURSE OF LONGING BAYBEE

[bronze viper]

What is the interaction between dire misfortune, empty inside and curse of longing?

Does the ramp just... Keep going?

[shy plinth]

I... don't know

Sounds like we need to hit the lab

[solar maple]

curse of longing is just so mediocre

but I would assume each time the doom reprocs it halves the current damage

no idea though

[shy plinth]

Curse of longing is clutch for PS gamers

[bronze viper]

Lmao that defense of CoL is my absolute favorite

[shy plinth]

Like that's all the duo is for right

[bronze viper]

"I get PS easy, every run."

[shy plinth]

All you have to do is target a duo that barely increases damage!

[edgy arrow]

lmao i ignore PS so much my first thought was legit "wait, this game is out on playstation now?"

[solar maple]

what happens if you hit an enemy with a doom attack when they already have CoL doom?

does it replace it?

becuase if not it's a dps loss LOL

[shy plinth]

I think so but wouldn't feel confident enough to bet on it

[shy plinth]

Tbh I think PS is great for people learning the game

Both for the increased damage and learning how specific boons can matter

[edgy arrow]

yeah i really liked it when i first started actually

[shy plinth]

But yeah it just falls off so hard when you actually want to push

[solar maple]

PS really isn't that bad

[shy plinth]

And ff is so much more reliable

It isn't

[edgy arrow]

it was basically what got me actively doing builds

[shy plinth]

It's just work

Yeah same

[edgy arrow]

trying to force PS every run

[shy plinth]

It teaches you how to build

[edgy arrow]

yeah

[shy plinth]

And 40% is a lot

[bronze viper]

I legit had a hangover + weak Chaos run I tried PS on and I was just offended at the lack of uptime I could maintain. I just don't get it.

[shy plinth]

That PS damage sound is also so satisfying

Like I had a lot of builds where I just went for rupture jolted

And it turns out those are good boons

[edgy arrow]

yeah lol and hangover+weak is like, basically the best case scenario

[shy plinth]

Took way too many blinding flashes tho

[solar maple]

I've tried PS beo lol

[shy plinth]

Also the biggest downside of PS is that you don't want to take Artemis boons

And Artemis boons good

[edgy arrow]

yeah lotta folks are like "rupture+jolted great for PS!" but actually they're just good boons

its not the PS

[shy plinth]

Rupture is okay

[edgy arrow]

the boons are doing the work by themselves

[shy plinth]

Jolted does so much

[solar maple]

aphro cast + snow burst is pretty quick PS on beo

[edgy arrow]

with a thunder flare sea storm build i hope

[true fable]

ruptured is quite good on high heat

[full shale]

sorry to interrupt, whats beo?

[shy plinth]

S N O W B U R S T

Beowulf

[true fable]

PS is not

[solar maple]

beowulf

[bronze viper]

100% agreed. I've been offered a lot of Artemis on Dio runs and I've had to consider just not getting them because of PS.

[full shale]

thank you

[shy plinth]

Oh yeah I'm not gonna turn down a razor shoals

[true fable]

tbh

[shy plinth]

What makes it good at high heat specifically

[true fable]

PS is one of the most talked about mirror options

[shy plinth]

I'm sure there's something I don't know

[true fable]

for being so inconsequential

its DoT

[shy plinth]

I guess that's always just good

[true fable]

DoT is always better the longer a run takes

[shy plinth]

Ahhh

Yeah good call

[edgy arrow]

rupture its really good for heroes

that alone is good enough reason imo

[true fable]

the reason why dio and ruptured and stuff like that arent picked in speedruns is because you hope things die before they start moving

[bronze viper]

Rupture is 1 boon that instantly kills Theseus EM3 lol.

[edgy arrow]

yup pretty much

its also kinda good for strongbows sometimes

[true fable]

VERY good for eyes

in elysium

[edgy arrow]

and i'll take everything i can get against those

oh yeah eyes as well

[light stag]

Hey it's not my fault that SGG didn't bother unique identifying icons for their core boons other than Purple and other Purple

[edgy arrow]

i mean, its purple and pink

but fair ig

[bronze viper]

Lmao I feel like elysium takes a year longer on slow attack weapons if i don't have rupture.

Like wtf is Chaos supposed to do about DC2 eyes. Spend 5 hours on its damage loop?

[edgy arrow]

yes

[shy plinth]

Mostly that yes

I feel like if I were going chaos shield I would keepsake Zeus and go for smoldering air

[edgy arrow]

5 hours is a speedrun for chaos pretty sure

[shy plinth]

How else can you do damage

[solar maple]

noone tell bablo

[shy plinth]

Bablo doesn't count

[hearty onyx]

Bablo is built different

[edgy arrow]

bablo is a wizard

[shy plinth]

He warps the game to his will

[true fable]

i lowkey think tempest strike charged shot might be the way

[edgy arrow]

why tho

[bronze viper]

Bablo's 7:01 record secretly recorded in hours:minutes

[solar maple]

?????

[shy plinth]

What

[solar maple]

bright pls

[true fable]

tempest strike charged shot yeets enemies for miles and makes them take a ton of damage

[edgy arrow]

why waste charged shot on tempest strike

[true fable]

arty is probably better

but that sweet sweet knockback damage

[edgy arrow]

yeah then they're miles away from you and the room takes even longer

[true fable]

well the idea here is to high roll breaking wave

🙂

[shy plinth]

Sea storm chaos??

[true fable]

i had it for my 50

it wasnt bad

[edgy arrow]

i mean, sure i guess

[true fable]

sea storm doesnt require tempest strike to be functional though

idk

[bronze viper]

Playing Chaos for the last couple of days has taught me you just open the possibilities with your build to as many high rolls as possible and let the damage come from where it may

[true fable]

tempest strike does some really cool things with charged shot

yeee ledger

now you get it

you high roll not because you are greedy

but because you must survive somehow

[edgy arrow]

i really enjoyed chaos at 40, but i tried some 45s and 50s and i think i might just not do that

the difficulty increases a ludicrous amount

[true fable]

good lad

[edgy arrow]

like, even more so than other aspects

[bronze viper]

Lol, I love the builds where I leave Tartarus with no Jolted, but with Demeter, Aphro, Splash Dash, and a dream.

[true fable]

it feels like a weapon where i just

end up with vengeful mood

a lot

like a disturbing amount of the time

[edgy arrow]

okay hear me out: 50 heat chaos cast build

[light stag]

Chaos is the probably the Aspect where you need absolute damage numbers the most

[edgy arrow]

if you have to highroll anyway...

[bronze viper]

Lmao doom attack is very legit on Chaos

[light stag]

Shield special is both slow because of the return and does insignificant amount of damage

[bronze viper]

I take Skull Earring into elysium+ every time now. It's basically Shackle

[true fable]

nah im a coward

i take skelly or acorn every time

im not a skull earring gamer

[edgy arrow]

pro strat is take skull earring then immediately get patty

[light stag]

Spear and Shield specials are the only ones like that - there is no way to make % based boons work with them

[bronze viper]

I meant specifically on Chaos lmao I'm not a psychopath

[edgy arrow]

have you heard of GY and beowulf

[true fable]

you ended up clearing right ledger?

[light stag]

at least with Bow special you can shotgun

[bronze viper]

You just get hit by your shield deciding to not come back and you skull earring back ezpz

[edgy arrow]

actually there's loads of stuff you can do with spear special

[light stag]

hidden aspects are basically different weapons

[edgy arrow]

assuming you have decent hammers

[true fable]

you can choose not to use it

this is the smartest decision

[edgy arrow]

that too lol

[true fable]

regarding spear special

[edgy arrow]

actually that's usually what i do

[bronze viper]

Really close. My progress declined when I decided to experiment with builds lmao

[light stag]

Yeah spear special isn;t even that bad

[true fable]

i see i see

its pretty atrocious

ngl

[light stag]

Shield special is the worst

[edgy arrow]

you are clearly more pro at chaos than i

next level strats here

[true fable]

makes no sense and does not mesh with its kit at all

beo and zeus special are fine

chaos special would be fine if the targeting worked

[light stag]

that's why Chaos shield can't work without Zeus or Ares special

[true fable]

and the middle shield always came back like a snap

[bronze viper]

Am I crazy? I do not remember the shield recall issue being nearly this bad in EA

[true fable]

i am a 1.0 babby

[light stag]

Oh yeah Zeus special because it also doesn't use the regular shield special

[edgy arrow]

i think it was actually pretty similar

just no one cared because we were all clearing rooms like crazy

[bronze viper]

It's ludicrously bad now. Like Chaos legit skill weapon now. If you throw your shields into the void irresponsibly they might not come home.

[light stag]

People used to do blindfolded runs with the old Chaos shield

[true fable]

yeah its just that the extra bounces dont happen now

or like

you cant count on it proccing effects on the same target

beo special is like

fine

the only problem with beo special

[bronze viper]

I find myself positioning with enemies between walls to ensure the shields have efficient return paths.

[true fable]

is that using it once

[edgy arrow]

i'm using beo special more and more actually

[true fable]

makes you want to use it twice

and using it twice is usually a mistake

[edgy arrow]

i think its a trap but i can't stop

[bronze viper]

Wtf is this, Baj aspect?

[true fable]

yeah i do that on chaos

i want a solid object to ricochet the shield off of

make sure it doesnt go flying into nonexistence

[edgy arrow]

the problem with that is asphodel exists

there are no solid objects

only void

[bronze viper]

Furies, Heroes and Dad Arena are the absolute worst for this.

[shy plinth]

Ugh I died in asphodel so many times when I was doing phalanx flare poseidon

[bronze viper]

Oddly haven't run into mich problem with Lernie

[shy plinth]

The casts just vanish

Like socks in the dryer

[true fable]

dad arena is annoying

[edgy arrow]

this is half the reason i usually run true shot

[true fable]

lernie is really easy on chaos imo

[shy plinth]

Seems reasonable

[edgy arrow]

like, the casts are in the enemy

[true fable]

its really hard to miss the head

with the main shield

[edgy arrow]

special the enemy, get the casts back

ez

[shy plinth]

My solution was to get greater recall

Worked very well

[edgy arrow]

not the crazy casts yeeting everywhere thing

that you get with zeus/athena

[true fable]

phalanx shot is a melee cast

heroes is a really annoying arena

[bronze viper]

Yeah Lernie very free. The heroes are so irritating. It's so hard to plan around the non deterministic return times to block Asterius nonsense

[true fable]

mini asterius can be very annoying too

[edgy arrow]

i wish it was just a static cooldown

even it was kinda long

[bronze viper]

Especially when I'm greed gaming with Skull Earring. I don't understand why the game punishes me for bad choices

[edgy arrow]

then at least you could get into a rhythm with it

[true fable]

well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions

[shy plinth]

I'd link the reaping and sowing tweet but it's got naughty words

[unique zephyr]

It seems spear special (except GY) is only decent with a hammer like exploding launcher or something

Otherwise it feels vestigial

[solar maple]

I mean achilles special is good

just not for damage

on hades spear I agree

[edgy arrow]

but guys what about zag spear special

+25% damage and speed op pls nerf

[solar maple]

what spear?

never heard of it

[edgy arrow]

oh sorry i meant "reset for flurry jab spear"

idk why i wrote "zag" spear, typo mb

[solar maple]

oh achilles spear

got it

not sure why you're taking special speed from hermes though

seems not worth it

[edgy arrow]

but what about if you could get a free special speed from hermes in exchange for the entire reason achilles exists

that's bound to be worth it

[solar maple]

it's kind of funny to me that if you could get flurry jab on hades spear it would probably be the best hammer even though it completely removes the aspect gimmick

[edgy arrow]

that's sad

but true

imagine GY flurry jab lol

no healing, still worth it

[solar maple]

I recently discovered GY can moonwalk

[edgy arrow]

?

moonwalk?

[solar maple]

https://imgur.com/a/otOPws9

moonwalk

[edgy arrow]

amazing

10/10 zag is micheal jackson now

[solar maple]

for some reason when you do special cancel into attack for the 2nd and 3rd attacks in the GY combo it uses the animation of attack 1

but with the frame data/damage of the correct attack

so when you move back it just does the walk animation instead of the wacky jump

[edgy arrow]

yeah that's weird

[true fable]

hades spear if special was the spin

krey

[bronze viper]

🙂 It's more satisfying because I didn't even get a damage highroll. I just got 2 Athena DDs and used one of them from a very sloppy phase 2. I played phase 3 better than I ever have before though. https://imgur.com/a/m5Mm68J

[edgy arrow]

nice!

out of interest, how long did that EM4 fight take you

i’m guessing a while haha

plenty of time left on TD2 tho

[bronze viper]

Highlighting the vod now. I'll figure that out in a sec. Fight didn't feel protracted though. I think "normal" time. So 5m-ish

[edgy arrow]

5m is a long time tho lmao

actually wait

i just realised i have very little frame of reference for non beo EM4 times

[shy plinth]

It was 5 minutes 10 seconds

[bronze viper]

5:10 for the fight

[shy plinth]

I'm lurkin in your vods ledger

[bronze viper]

lmao

[edgy arrow]

fair enough

so TD3 is pretty much straight up not doable then

takes all the time just to do EM4

not really surprising honestly

[shy plinth]

This damage is so horrendous wtf

Seriously I think it might have to be keepsaking smoldering air

[bronze viper]

I'm offended by that. I thought the damage was excellent

(for chaos)

[shy plinth]

It's excellent for chaos

Lol yeah

If you're used to crap for breakfast this is crap with like cinnamon sugar on top

It's fancy

[edgy arrow]

yeah there’s poseidon’s aid, double strike, jolted...

basically insane damage by chaos standards

[bronze viper]

I didn't get the big boy payoffs like Wave Pounding Rip Current Smoldering Air or Splitting Bolt Sea Storm

[edgy arrow]

might have helped to have an attack boon ofc but you can’t have everything

[shy plinth]

This phase 3 is magnificent

Super clean

[bronze viper]

Omg right, I was pretty demoralized by the disaster that was my phase 2

[shy plinth]

Yeah phase 2 you were like

Not full unga bunga

But you at least had the unga

Phase 3 was really clean

Okay you just said super clean on the vod get out of my head

[edgy arrow]

EM4 fights are always like that for some reason

one phase really clean, one phase really not clean

which phases they are change

[bronze viper]

In my experience EM4 fights are just different flavors of dirty spaghetti

[edgy arrow]

truth

[bronze viper]

But Beo changed my mind somewhat on that lol

[edgy arrow]

even with beo if you’re me haha

[shy plinth]

Beo just reduces the amount of time you have to make mistakes

Because the boss dies

[edgy arrow]

pretty much

[wind bough]

generally em4 fight is either me being screwed over by the phase 1 summons or not

phase 2 and 3 are sort of zzz as long as i have a decent build

[shy plinth]

I mean it's just a question of more attrition right

At a certain point the extended opportunity for human error is a real thing

[bronze viper]

Also phase 3 is pretty far from autopilot for me at least as long as FO2 is on and I'm not a shield. Actually, that's a lie, that assumes I can consistently get to phase 3 often enough to make a value judgment

[wind bough]

phase 3 is sort of the same as the other phases

except the spear throw becomes substantially more dangerous i guess

also hades will stop to heal on vases

if your build has strong dmg output you can totally outdamage it

for me the difficulty goes

phase 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phase 3 > phase 2

[bronze viper]

I think for builds that can't efficiently clear urns + skulls freely phase 3 is a nightmare. If you have a damaging dash, it's very very hard to maneuver around dodging skull waves and not crashing into urns

For me, a mortal

[unique zephyr]

Resumed run, got the 2 sack, let's see if I can win against dad

All of my high heat wins have been 2 sacks so far

[bronze viper]

I meant the opposite lol. Can't*

[wind bough]

i generally dont mind urns and skulls

i let them vibe unless hades is on the other corner of the screen

if so i just hit some and dash

but they rarely are a massive problem if they are in an unfortunate spot near where you want to hide from laser

[bronze viper]

Yeah that's probably how I die most often in p3. Or just yolo spear chuck no scopes

[wind bough]

spear chucks on p3 are substantially scarier than in the others

thats how i almost died when i beat 32 heat for the first time

which was today

[mossy zinc]

Excuse me?

[shy plinth]

Nyaa sorry I was referring only to humans, not cats

[unique zephyr]

Choked vs dad 😦

Luckily I know several places I can improve

I could adjust the pact to do TD2, hm

[bronze viper]

Relevant (happened earlier today):
https://youtu.be/KgHF_gyeOdo

[unique zephyr]

Had a good run, then met Alecto lol

[wind bough]

when using mirage shot, do i want the cast itself to be artemis' or poseidon's?

[bronze viper]

Poseidon's gives you a lot of room to high roll in other ways too. AoE also very nice

[unique zephyr]

Spear is hard for me

Hades spear is fun to use so far though

[worn current]

That's why you don't go with that heat. It'll give you the "No"

[north dove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/820564826698809384/unknown.png friendship ended with double edge, dash nova is now my new best friend

55 heat ✅

the EM4 fight was one of my most skillful ones, so excited to upload

the ol' slap and zap strikes again @shy plinth

[vital grove]

Dash nova, huh

Is that a flex

Or are you being serious

[north dove]

legitimately not a flex

[bronze viper]

(hard to tell the difference sometimes lol)

[vital grove]

I rather dislike dash nova the lunge is weird

[bronze viper]

Lol, did you enjoy the buggy teleportation of its predecessor

[vital grove]

I didn't play back then heh

[bronze viper]

It used to remember your starting location and for some x seconds, pressing Special again would return you to that point

[vital grove]

Nice

[bronze viper]

Which I guess is kind of just better, but it also more than kind of gave people nausea and disorientation

[vital grove]

I'm used to weird teleports from old Warcraft 3 custom games and mobas lol

[true fable]

what the hell

retrash must be stopped

[bronze viper]

He can't just keep getting away with it

[true fable]

turns out the mirror of night is quite good huh

[north dove]

after a bajillion attempts with RI1, turns out all I needed to do was turn RI down to 0

AP2 with rolls might as well be AP1.5

[shy plinth]

THE SLAP N ZAP

What a beast

[north dove]

I don't know how I managed this on 3am brain

[true fable]

https://imgur.com/GU19pdv

spot the issue with this image

mirage shot before heroes

im comin back soon baby

[shy plinth]

Did you misclick the shield

[true fable]

mirror

[shy plinth]

Wait I'm a dumbass

I read "shield of chaos" instead of "aspect of beowulf"

OH

How far did you get

[true fable]

styx first tunnel

it was an accident

i was showing a friend how i would setup a 50 pact

and then said "i'll just do it"

was a fun experiment

[shy plinth]

Styx first tunnel is pretty good

[true fable]

i think i couldve made it to dad

made a mistake first tunnel vs big rat

[shy plinth]

RIP

Does anyone have sane advice for zag rail

I looked at the heat sheet and the record is a retrash run and I jumped to the end and my mind imploded

I've been trying zeus attack and I gave merciful end a shot too, I just keep getting to dad and dying in phase 2

[true fable]

i think zeus attack should be fine

not great

but fine

[shy plinth]

This weapon kinda sux

[true fable]

ME might be a little bit of a style mismatch with the melee range of ME

vs the range of zag rail

[shy plinth]

Yeah I was trying it with delta chamber just to see how it would go

Didn't feel right

[true fable]

works for anyheat but seems weird for high heat

[shy plinth]

I was also considering dio

Which probs works

Not great for room clear tho

Probs just need to play more defensively, I'm so used to rails that do big damage

[north dove]

spread fire + artemis attack works well

just not that safe

[shy plinth]

Oh that's nice

Yeah

And inconsistent probs

Your 51 zag rail is ridiculous btw

https://i.imgur.com/74cCgic.jpeg What is this

[north dove]

lol I know, AP2 just gave me some nonsense boons

[shy plinth]

The ol crystal beam ares rocket aphrodite attack build

[true fable]

i just did a 50 heat achilles coin purse start where i left tart with 1 boon

i feel like i got mugged

[north dove]

How does that even happen

Are you going for 50 heat all aspects?

[true fable]

all weapons

im not quite sure

i got an epic heartbreak strike by end of tart though

started with a common so im not sure how that happened

i really need to stop doing high heat while tired

the one run i got off the ground i threw a spear onto a trap and teleported onto it twice

[north dove]

Lol it's so hard to stop though

[true fable]

🙃

[north dove]

"just one more run"

[true fable]

yup

[north dove]

3 hours later

[shy plinth]

Excuse me this is a personal attack

[true fable]

i lost my DD

[shy plinth]

I'd defend myself more but I just got to styx >:3

[true fable]

and my life

[with that

and i had

flurry jab

epic zeus attack

divine dash

and poseidon's call

😦

RI2 gaming is so hard

😦

[north dove]

RI bad

[true fable]

yeah 😦

[shy plinth]

Curse of nausea zag rail worked out

Highroll ez

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations!

[mossy zinc]

You should trust in Lady Aphrodite. 💕

[worn current]

But

[solar maple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/820619455338905610/Screen_Shot_2021-03-14_at_4.28.01_AM.png

choked 56 heat with a great build

tried to play too fast after a vermin 3 sack 😦

[mossy zinc]

If you do 54, you can barrel-roll. 🦊 🔄

[solar maple]

no

I've already done 54

if I get a good build I want it to be a pb

so 55/56

if someone else does 54 I'll do 55

until then I'm trying 56

[mossy zinc]

But if you did 54 within 24 hours of Retrash's 55, he can barrel-roll you right back.

So that would be funny.

[solar maple]

lol

I'm pretty mad about this one. Even with the 3 sack I still should have won

I'm just a bit out of practice at em4 I guess

[mossy zinc]

Maybe you could do 56 and then 54 within 24 hours of his 55, and barrel-roll his barrel-roll.

Barrel roll combo.

[solar maple]

now you're talking

if I were to try to barrel roll before getting a beo pb it would be with zeus shield

but I doubt I can do 54 with it

[chilly sun]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/625771939348217915/820627796976074792/unknown.png?width=1191&height=670

finally got 32 heat on all weaps

[celest grail]

congrats!

[chilly sun]

ty!!

[celest grail]

no mm?

thats bold

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations!

[celest grail]

but hey, do whatcha want

[mossy zinc]

MM can be quite scary if you're not experienced in the fights.

But I suppose that applies to EM4 moreso.

[chilly sun]

exactly! EM4 was a bit of a highroll, but when hunting blades get going they get going

[icy acorn]

oh geez that's one heck of a good run, hunting mirage and vicious cycle, nice!

[chilly sun]

thank you!!

[chilly sun]

oh i should mention i got stupid lucky, i had hunting blades by the end of Tartarus. i got a room 3 ares with an artemis start ( because i value her atk over slicing shot )

[bright mango]

Wut

How do you not start ares in a hunting blades build

[solemn pulsar]

( because i value her atk over slicing shot )

[shy plinth]

Dying in tartarus stinky

Slicing shot by itself bad

[chilly sun]

ye exactly

i need damage!

[trim sigil]

slicing shot more like boiling blood is gone

[bright mango]

That’s true

But in tartarus achilles can carry itself at 32 imo

I also like to have a high rarity on slicing shot

[shy plinth]

You can still get that in asphodel 🙂

[waxen relic]

If you start Arty you can pivot into Crystal Clarity as well, which should work just fine.

[mossy zinc]

Or any Cast because you can easily get Mirage Shot.

[shy plinth]

Lately I've been taking true shot more just because

And that boon seems pretty good

Have been working on not forgetting cast exists and sometimes true shot just gets em

[solemn pulsar]

love true shot

i wish it had a better crit rate

but if it did it might be OP honestly

i know it got nerfed into the ground at some point in early access

[daring hedge]

i feel like boosting true shot to 15% like strike would be reasonable tbh

[solemn pulsar]

yeah the fact that it's single target damage would balance out making it the best cast damage in the game IMO

it is only 20 less base damage than crush shot though so it's nice

i'd even be fine if they nerfed the base damage and upped the crit rate to match

i just like to see crits

[bright mango]

I like true shot on hera

Big burst damage

[solemn pulsar]

i just cannot separate hera from crush shot

[daring hedge]

i kinda hate it on hera lol

[solemn pulsar]

in my head

like other casts just don't exist

it's such a natural extension of the weapon

[daring hedge]

i had to use it for my hera 50 and it was a slog tbh

rarely ever got crits

[solemn pulsar]

would you say you got crits

about

10% of the time?

[daring hedge]

:)

[solemn pulsar]

crush shot -> passion flare damage: 90 -> 80
true shot -> hunter's flare damag: 70 -> 55

y

i guess for the audacity of giving an artemis cast any AOE at all, you had to be punished

[edgy arrow]

smol aoe -> big aoe =/= no aoe -> big aoe

yeah

lol

to be fair, hunter’s flare is actually pretty good

overshadowed by the big beo cast builds ofc, but it’s decent

[bright mango]

My beo favorite casts go flood, trippy, crush

In that order

*passion

[edgy arrow]

same

hunter’s flare is really only barely worse than passion flare tho

[bright mango]

Yeah

[edgy arrow]

and trippy is basically useless at 50+, meaning hunter’s flare is 2-3rd

[wind bough]

i think its decent

though i wouldn't really take it unless going for specific build cause prophecy

though pair it up with good crit chance + artemis duo and its pretty nice

other casts are just usually far above decent though

[mossy zinc]

The only direct True Shot nerf was to rarity scaling.

The rest were indirect nerfs through replacing Double Shot with Mirage Shot, adding a lot of boons to Master Chaos's pool, etc.

[edgy arrow]

lmao double shot

that takes me back

what a balanced boon

[shy plinth]

Was that a legendary or just a t2

[edgy arrow]

beo would’ve been in heaven if it existed back then

[shy plinth]

And/or was it a prereq for loaded

[mossy zinc]

m happy with the changes they made. Like half the clears people posted were Cast builds back then lol.

[edgy arrow]

it was a T2

and you could pom it lmao

[shy plinth]

OH GROSS

[edgy arrow]

idk if it was a fully loaded prereq tho

actually i’m pretty sure it was

[shy plinth]

I would guess it was since it was an artie t2 that's cast specific

Gosh imagine your mirage shot earning you fully loaded

That's filthy

[edgy arrow]

yup

[mossy zinc]

Fully Loaded only needed one t2 boon and gave +3 ammo.

Getting +1 ammo or +% Cast damage from Master Chaos was super easy because the pool was smaller.

[shy plinth]

Wait it only needed ONE?

And it was PLUS THREE?

What the poop

[mossy zinc]

lol

[edgy arrow]

yeah it was crazy times lol

[mossy zinc]

And getting Cast boons from Lord Hermes was a lot easier, too.

[shy plinth]

Did Beo exist back then

[mossy zinc]

No.

[shy plinth]

Hera and achilles then

[mossy zinc]

Like I said, like half the victory screens people posted were cast builds lol.

[shy plinth]

Unsurprisingly

[edgy arrow]

it’s funny because even back then half the new players just ignored casts

[solar maple]

when was that all changed? I remember really liking some cast builds back in EA before beo was added

[mossy zinc]

Bow and spear weren't very good, then. It was mainly Poseidon Aspect and sometimes Hera.

[solar maple]

but that might have just been new player bias

[shy plinth]

Blood Price

https://hades.gamepedia.com/Patch_044

[bronze viper]

I think Beowulf was basically as good as a cast build but people were distracted with the hilariously broken Charged Flight

[mossy zinc]

Nighty Night and then more in Blood Price.

[shy plinth]

In blood price it lists both the dual shot change and the fully loaded change

[solar maple]

ah so yeah that does make sense

I really liked going for fully loaded when I first started playing

and that was before the nerf

[shy plinth]

Bad News (Hermes): new! Deal bonus Cast damage to foes without Cast ammo in them (if you have a certain Mirror talent)
Greater Recall (Hermes): now requires first having one of Hermes' Cast-affecting Boons
Flurry Shot (Hermes): reduced power scaling from improved rarity
Quick Reload (Hermes): increased power scaling at Heroic rarity```

Aha

This was nighty night

[solar maple]

what of it?

[mossy zinc]

Nighty Night made Fully Loaded harder to get but it was still +3, but people just got more ammo easily from Master Chaos lol.

[shy plinth]

Just looking at the nerfs Nyaa was saying

It looks like most of the changes were blood price tho

Hermes did seem kinda busted before

Curse of Longing (Aphrodite x Ares): increased damage

Wtf it was WORSE before?

[bronze viper]

I think I remember it being 25%

[shy plinth]

But why

[bronze viper]

But I never used it so that could be a false memory

[edgy arrow]

wow lmao 25% is garbage

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, mainly Blood Price. Nighty Night was just the first nerf to Fully Loaded.

[shy plinth]

Oh I see, it was an in between update on 042

They also nerfed winter harvest

I'm guessing it became "have 2" instead of "have 1"

[mossy zinc]

Went through so many changes until they finally got some "if it's so powerful, just make it +2, these changes are getting silly" feedback and settled on that lol.

[bronze viper]

Didn't know that. Weird nerf. Demeter was always kind of meh

[shy plinth]

I would guess that an asphodel winter harvest made runs a lot easier

[solemn pulsar]

the 2/3 legendaries are kinda sad, honestly. they're tough to get without fated authority

[edgy arrow]

winter harvest blew my mind the first time i got it

[solemn pulsar]

or good luck

[edgy arrow]

“this works on hades? can’t possibly be balanced!”

now i haven’t seen that boon in like 6 months or something

[shy plinth]

I'm just surprised that the specific tier 2s are so narrow

Like why doesn't hunter's mark work towards fully loaded

[edgy arrow]

actually wait no i randomly got it recently

[mossy zinc]

In Nighty Night, Fully Loaded needed two out of Exit Wounds, Support Fire, and Double Shot. All three of those were tier 2. Pressure Points didn't work as a requirement. You can't get Exit Wounds with non-lodging Casts.

[edgy arrow]

yeah i think hunter’s mark counting would be fair

it’d make it much more reasonable for stygian builds

[shy plinth]

I guess the three tier 2s that count are the ones that interact with casts?

[solemn pulsar]

at least double shot was a good boon

[edgy arrow]

and beo ofc

[solemn pulsar]

support fire is kinda meh on a lot of cast aspects

[shy plinth]

Also for demeter, why doesn't glacial glare count

[edgy arrow]

yeah support fire counting is kinda weird

[shy plinth]

It technically triggers on cast

[edgy arrow]

sure but so does hunter’s mark

[mossy zinc]

It was honestly easier to get +3 ammo from three Chaos Gates than to get Fully Loaded lol.

[solemn pulsar]

you cast so infrequently is the main thing

[edgy arrow]

^

[shy plinth]

Yeah I agree

[solemn pulsar]

support fire is only useful on flurry hammers, fists, and rail

[shy plinth]

Support fire snow burst beo with DC2 let's go

[solemn pulsar]

i mean

technically

yes

[shy plinth]

At that point it's just free heat

[edgy arrow]

the snow burst is doing all the work there

but i like taking support fire on beo anyway, if there’s nothing actually good

gotta keep that fully loaded dream alive

[shy plinth]

Yeah I ran that through google translate and it said "I like legendaries"

[edgy arrow]

correct

[mossy zinc]

My Support Fire on Demeter Aspect two runs ago did more work than Lightning Strike.

Even though Support Fire was at 14 damage and Lightning Strike at 15.

[edgy arrow]

how tho

support fire won’t proc if lightning strike doesn’t

[wind bough]

what is the general consensus on trippy shot for like anything beetwen 20-40 heat?

[shy plinth]

Trippy shot or trippy flare

[edgy arrow]

it’s literally impossible to do more damage with support fire than lightning strike in that situation, unless you’re not attacking

[bright mango]

Yeah

I think it’s decent in that range

[edgy arrow]

ye it good

[mossy zinc]

It also procs on Special and Cast, and Chain Lightning will just go poof if you overkill anything. Support Fire will seek the next target.

[bright mango]

Because you don’t have to take convenience fee

[bronze viper]

Yeah, it was 25% for CoL https://hades.gamepedia.com/Duo_Boons?diff=3170&oldid=3166

[mossy zinc]

I mean DPS meter clearly said Support Fire did more damage, so it's not impossible.

[shy plinth]

That's so gross

[edgy arrow]

oh huh

can’t argue if you have data

seems unlikely but i guess it happened

[solemn pulsar]

yeah it's great on fists/rail, or anything that is striking quickly

on like arthur or chiron it's not doing a whole lot

[honest kernel]

Zeus shield intensifies

[wind bough]

also do people generally consider ice wine to be a top tier boon?

[solemn pulsar]

@honest kernel does it shoot every time it hits?

[wind bough]

i tried it once and seemed really good but i was on really low heat

[honest kernel]

Yes

[bright mango]

I don’t think so

[solemn pulsar]

gorg

[bronze viper]

It's... fine if you gt it?

[bright mango]

Yeah

[bronze viper]

Like you're never sad to get it

[shy plinth]

Don't take it on beo

[wind bough]

?

[edgy arrow]

yes unless you’re playing hera or beo

then it’s bad

[bronze viper]

Oh right lmao

[wind bough]

makes sense

[shy plinth]

"Top tier" is also pretty competitive

[honest kernel]

Ice wine is good if you lob the cast. If you don't lob the cast, it can be considered worse (Hera and Beo)

[bright mango]

Top tier is mirage

For casts in general

[mossy zinc]

Since we were talking about cast builds in Early Access, Ice Wine was definitely top tier back in Nighty Night.

[bronze viper]

It has to compete with Glacial Glare

[bright mango]

Its so consistent and good

[wind bough]

i dont think i've tried mirage yet

actually i did but my casts in that build were super lame

[bright mango]

Have you played cast builds????

[shy plinth]

If you haven't played beo yet you are in the right channel

[wind bough]

and i just sticked to other things

yes i have

quite a few

[edgy arrow]

it’s funny when you get mirage with no cast boon

[honest kernel]

Or Fully Loaded

[bright mango]

This channel is beo simps