silver lining and all.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
tidal flame
solar maple
high heat sword is tricky
vital grove
Poseidon gets a bunch of boons to mitigate the lowish %
bronze viper
Lol... That's enough signal for me to quit for the night. Shackle AP2 had me start with Passion Dash 3x in a row
bronze viper
Shots fired?
unique zephyr
Been watching bablo’s 40 heat streak, I find it interesting he uses TD2
Also using damage control on spear
I guess DC matters less when you have more time? He was more free to do trials, skip mid shops, and even do troves sometimes. Just wondering while watching the video, bablo explains a lot so these are great to watch
shy gulch
TD2 mainly makes you less vulnerable to sacks
which can really ruin a streak
bablo does explain a lot in his vids which is great
bronze viper
Been watching bablo’s 40 heat streak, I find it interesting he uses TD2
Yeah, as we've mentioned before TD2/3 aren't mandates, they're playstyles.
Also re: DC, the first DC isn't that big of a deal on spear, the dash strike has like infinite range so it's very easy to knock off the hearts.
solar maple
yeah the main downside of DC is that it costs a bunch of time
it also makes summons more annoying to use, and some normal rooms with lots of small enemies more challenging
with TD2 it is definitely more viable than with TD3
unique zephyr
TD2 mainly makes you less vulnerable to sacks
That’s one thing I was thinking, that you don’t just lose to a bad styx roll
unique zephyr
Yeah, as we've mentioned before TD2/3 aren't mandates, they're playstyles.
It is pretty amazing how flexible even high heat is with pacts and how experimentation is good
solar maple
high heat is surprisingly very flexible yeah
it's much less optimized than speedruns so there is a ton of room for experimenting and discovering new strategies
if you asked 3 top players to all make a 50 heat pact for a weapon you would likely get 3 quite different pacts
between like tailesque/hadesprof/retrash
and yeah, if you are trying to win a huge % of runs, td2 can make sense to be 5 sack proof (you can go fast enough to clear 5 sacks, but not also while playing super safe usually)
but for pushing heat pbs usually you should just assume you'll get a 2-3 sack tbh
unique zephyr
Yeah I am getting more and more used to TD3 and it is 6 heat total
I dont have to worry as much about consistency since I’m not consistent anyway lol
solar maple
exactly
unique zephyr
Nor aiming for it
solar maple
I don't care about 10% of my nem sword 50 runs losing to sack when 3 other heat would make half of them die in elysium
unique zephyr
4 and 5 sack seem rare enough that TD3 is worth it since I don’t usually die because of that
I die before that matters
Also, I’m liking zag bow way more than chiron
It feels more fun to me
solar maple
there are quite a few chiron haters here
I never really play it myself, mostly because I don't play slow weapons much
unique zephyr
Not sure how to use or build zag bow special tho
I mostly focus on big crits on attack
solar maple
zag bow special isn't used that much I think
only with special hammers
sometimes people use it to put statuses on enemies?
idk I don't play zag bow
unique zephyr
Does the +6 arrows hammer increase the special radius
Or no
Well, the arc it covers I mean
In front of zag
unique zephyr
Glad to know neglecting special is also what’s done by good players lol since in practice I focus attack
Rama is cool but doesn’t click with me right now
I find getting charged shots satisfying and for me zag bow charged shots are easier to do
solar maple
learning when you can powershot on rama takes a ton of practice
I'm still not great at it
even though rama is one of my more played aspects
honest kernel
I also like zag bow more, felt like more things had to go right for chiron to get to compareable dps
I never used special on it felt too slow
edgy arrow
it’s sometimes useful for clearing witch projectiles or stripping saviour hearts
shy plinth
I kind of understand what Tail means about having to pay attention to game mechanics on spear
It feels like the least unga bunga capable weapon
But the damage is good enough if you don't get hit
Feels like constantly empty dashing is the way to win with it
vital grove
Chiron might legitimately be that weapon you just go down to Td2 pace max everything and win by playing relatively safe
solar maple
the problem is that in many rooms you can't just run away
they are filled with a million enemies firing projectiles and dashing at you with unreactable hitboxes
while you have 1 dash (assuming RI3 haha)
in some rooms that works for sure -- a tart room with just thugs for example
but an aspodel room with speedy drakons? aaaaaaaaaaaa
if by "max everything" you just mean most things, then yeah that's how high heat chiron goes basically
Chiron also isnt even the safest weapon -- the special is quite laggy
That title probably goes to hestia or the shields (depending on the room)
vital grove
Indeed, Chiron is a lot about timing
pseudo girder
Chiron is all about le beeeg damage
kindred panther
IMO the spear either sucks or it's great, all depending on whether you find the explosive special shot. Except Guan Yu. That one always sucks.
pseudo girder
IMO the spear either sucks or it's great, all depending on whether you find the ...
Unless you go Arti Special Charged Skewer.
Then it's Bow with Extra Steps:tm:
solar maple
IMO the spear either sucks or it's great, all depending on whether you find the explosive special shot flurry jab. Except Guan Yu. That one always sucks.
🙂
kindred panther
hehe. flurry jab and the 7-chain special are good too
I just think the explosive shot special is clearly the best, from my experience
gaunt fiber
kindred panther
with zag spear anyway
kindred panther
I almost always use zag
kindred panther
I play whatever has the purple fuzzy
solar maple
lol
kindred panther
hehe
gaunt fiber
GY has a better explosive launcher in its base kit
solar maple
astaos will not stand for this GY slander
kindred panther
GY is:
too slow
too much health penalty.
Take away one or the other and you have a good weapon
kindred panther
it is so slow
solemn pulsar
GY just isn’t cool at all. Anyone that plays it eats paste most likely
kindred panther
am I doing something wrong or.... what, I don't understand
solar maple
GY is a bit of a meme
kindred panther
it's not slow?
solar maple
most people don't like it
solemn pulsar
It is slow
kindred panther
oh
solemn pulsar
It can be pretty fast
solar maple
he's been trying GY 50 heat for a while
solemn pulsar
With practice and luck
solemn pulsar
My best low heat time with it is like 8:40
kindred panther
they need to patch it, make it a little faster is all.
solemn pulsar
2nd
gaunt fiber
Good enough
solemn pulsar
I also have a charon% time with it
kindred panther
holy crap. I haven't tried to see how fast I can win but I think my best so far is around 16:00
gaunt fiber
How do you patch it?
solar maple
most of the people in this channel are also speedrunners
kindred panther
supergiant needs to patch it
kindred panther
make it faster
kindred panther
is the fat sword faster than GY?
gaunt fiber
The basic attack is pure garbage
bright mango
Are we talking about guan yu?
gaunt fiber
Slow, dash buffering not even worth it, the aoe is so bad
solar maple
can't even sub 5 smh
bright mango
ikr
kindred panther
so best dash - Poseidon easy call, right
solar maple
poseidon is the highest dps for most yeah
especially on something like eris
arty dash can be good for a dash attack build like nemesis sword
and athena is very safe and good with merciful end
kindred panther
I never use her dash
kindred panther
artemis
bright mango
Oh ok
solar maple
athena dash
bright mango
Its good on things like nemesis and stuff
solar maple
yeah good on nem and bows mostly
kindred panther
athena dash is 2nd best overall imo
bright mango
athena dash
No I though't he had never used athena dash
solar maple
oh lol
kindred panther
poseidon is all round the strongest god I think
bright mango
Sorta
His dash and call are good
Special is decent as well
But his attack has terrible pom scaling
kindred panther
like on average
solar maple
for high heat athena is the best god
bright mango
And it has a low %
bright mango
for high heat athena is the best god
Definitely
Speedrunning it completely depends on the weapon
But artemis takes a lot of the weapons
solar maple
yeah hard to pin down a "best god" for speedrunning
kindred panther
I either seem to have artemis just crushing huge damage or doing garbage
I don't know what it is, luck on crits or what
something in my boons that run
bright mango
Nah crits are good
solar maple
probably just depends on the weapon
bright mango
Multiplicative damage
solar maple
arty isn't great on some stuff
bright mango
True
But on weapons with high base damage its rly good
So just not on rail or fists
gaunt fiber
Lucy deadly strike when
kindred panther
my go to heat is just 15, I do all 4 bosses just cuz, and mid bosses, and 20% faster. I had artemis on like... chiron or something. something that shoulda been easy. and I got my ass beat
I had bad luck that run but
still
bright mango
all 4 bosses meaning em4?
kindred panther
yeah where hades has 3 lives
bright mango
Ok yeah
kindred panther
errr um wait is that the bosses name or the place name
bright mango
?
solar maple
extreme measures
kindred panther
hades lol
solar maple
you already said hades lol
kindred panther
yeah I know... is that the boss's name or the name of greek hell
solar maple
both
kindred panther
oh
solar maple
and the game
bright mango
Greek hell is the underworld
kindred panther
well yeah but everything has a cool name in greek mythology
solar maple
the underworld is also sometimes referred to as hades
solar maple
"zeus" is also just greek for "god" lol
kindred panther
is there any point to the garden?
bright mango
idk persephone just kinda shoos me away from there
kindred panther
nothing is in there except that gold statue
kindred panther
what is the best zeus build (shield)?
kindred panther
just pure zeus everywhere?
kindred panther
what does having sex with megaera do? just for lolz?
solar maple
there are a bunch of good zeus builds
no clear "best" imo
zeus^2 is good, merciful end is good, heart rend is good
probably more tbh
for high heat though yeah zeus^2 is probably best
bright mango
zeus^2 meaning zeus and more zeus?
solar maple
yeah
bright mango
ok
unique zephyr
So what happens if I pick up a boon from a god I don’t want and then sell it? Does having no boons from that god going into asphodel affect room generation at all (so more or less rooms of that god) or does the amount of boons you have of a particular god not affect anything? Same from having a lot of boons from a particular god
solar maple
the amount you have doesn't change anything
once you pick up a god, that god is in your pool forever
bright mango
^^^
unique zephyr
Ok good to know thanks
bronze viper
Chiron might legitimately be that weapon you just go down to Td2 pace max everyt...
I don't think this works at extremely high heat. I had to lean into the fact that it was still a Zag bow and play very precisely as a hybrid between Zag/Chiron to clear 51. JS1 CP1 DC0 RI2 AP2 TD3. The DC0 is important to allow you to pivot to your base attack (with Shackle) if you get good hammers in that direction.
But sure, for certain until you get to that point, Chiron plays well as being very defensive with TD2
mossy zinc
Chiron is comparable to Zag Bow and Hera in DPS. Rama is the outlier.
neat sonnet
I know it's not high heat, but I did an eris run to see if I could actually go quick and landed a 10:36, which is a 3 minute pb. is that decent?
mossy zinc
Decent is subjective. It's fast enough that you can do high heat TD3 without issues.
For Eris speedruns, top 100 doesn't even start until 7:55.
solemn pulsar
any PB is a decent one
for people trying to go fast, the first arbitrary "barrier" to cross is usually the 10 minute mark ingame
but you can obviously set your own goals / barriers
mossy zinc
Oh wait, that's rail in general. Top 100 Eris is 7:56.
It's almost like 99% of the top 100 rail runs are Eris runs. 
solemn pulsar
yay my hestia and zag rail PBs are both top 100 rail times
mossy zinc
Top 90 even.
neat sonnet
yeah, I mostly just fired up a run and went with it for fun, but it's crazy to think that there's so many times at under 8
back to 32x6 I suppose
mossy zinc
32x6 is only the first quarter of 32x24.
solemn pulsar
32x6 is the first step on the slippery slope
mine went "ok 32 heat once, ok let's get a sub 10 time, ok 32 all weapons, let's try a 40 heat, sub 10 all weapons, ok 40 heat all weapons then i'll stop"
mossy zinc
The worst is when you 24x sub 12.
solemn pulsar
3 months later and i have not stopped
mossy zinc
And you accidentally do a sub 10.
Now you have to do 24x sub 10.
But then you get one that's sub 9. Now what do you do?
solemn pulsar
speed-wise i think 24x sub 9 is the last one you can do without really driving yourself nuts
considering only like 2 people ever have taken chiron sub 8
mossy zinc
So you're saying bablo has driven himself nuts.
To be fair, not a lot of people try to go fast with Chiron in the first place.
solemn pulsar
but if you're also starting with eternal rose every time, sub 9 x 24 might be as difficult as sub 8 x 24 without that, particular strategy
kindred panther
For y'all that have done 32 heat all weapons, which did you find to be the easiest/hardest?
solemn pulsar
generally people find melee weapons the hardest, so sword/spear/fists, and the ranged weapons + shield to be on the easier side
depends on your personal expertise with the weapons though
slapping athena on melee weapons does a lot to increase your survivability
neat sonnet
spear was my first 32 with the funny GY heart rend
kindred panther
I've only gotten one on 32: the fists.
neat sonnet
I think I'm aiming for rail at the moment, can't decide which aspect
kindred panther
I actually stopped trying 32 heat after that
mossy zinc
Easiest for me would be Malphon (all except Gilgamesh), Hestia, Eris, Rama, Excalibur, Guan Yu, I suppose.
Oh, I guess shield is easy, too.
Hardest hmmmm. I guess Nemesis and Zag Sword?
But I think I got ME in Tartarus when I did Zag Sword, so it was smooth sailing.
kindred panther
ME?
mossy zinc
Merciful End.
mossy zinc
I don't really know, 32 for me is where I chill and mess around with stupid builds and bad pacts.
kindred panther
one of the most lucky/OP runs I can remember was when I got exclusive access in tartarus
not that getting exclusive access early or at all is lucky... that's just how the run started is all
mossy zinc
Gilgamesh was hard because I insisted on doing JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3, and the aspect was just released. So I was just trying out different builds looking for good DPS.
kindred panther
gilgamesh is hard to use, period. I've found that taking less damage almost always beats dealing more damage, on average.
mossy zinc
I don't think the aspect is very good, though. Probably bottom 3 or something. But it can be fun to play.
It just lacks DPS.
mossy zinc
Demeter Aspect is much stronger with no penalty.
kindred panther
is there ever a time when you actually pass up a chaos pit? for maybe a dual god door or even a hermes or something?
mossy zinc
Or if I don't have rerolls and have a good run or don't want to take the damage just before a boss fight. Lots of reasons to skip one.
kindred panther
I basically never skip em...
mossy zinc
Low heat I'll just take all of them unless there's a shop or friend room.
Or a god I really want for my build.
honest kernel
I am starting to hate dual god rooms tbh
kindred panther
they are tough sometimes
kindred panther
I really hate fighting aphrodite in those
mossy zinc
Yeah, gotta gauge what they can offer you.
UC is also a factor.
How dare you not pick Lady Aphrodite first. I hope she kills you every time for that. 
kindred panther
I almost always do. cuz I hate fighting her
I never see that damn heart until it's on me
mossy zinc
I have no idea what you are talking about. Only heathens know what her trial is like.
honest kernel
"You break my heart I'll break your body, little godling." 
mossy zinc
Is that something she says in a trial? Why do you know that line if so?
honest kernel
mossy zinc
Glad you died there. GO GO, LADY APHRODITE!!! 💕
Oh yeah, by the way.
HIGH HEAT WOMEN'S LEADERBOARD
- @mossy zinc - 52
- @honest kernel - 45
- Lady Aphrodite - 32
m still keeping track of that. 
honest kernel
hehe
vital grove
mine went "ok 32 heat once, ok let's get a sub 10 time, ok 32 all weapons, let's...
Hahaha
Yes
solemn pulsar
now i'm like "do i stop at sub 8 all weapons? should I try sub 7? 40x24??? 6x50??????"
mossy zinc
64x24 sub 5.
solemn pulsar
hmm. max heat routed is probably doable on all aspects, just very hard on some
sub 5 routed is also probably doable on all aspects, but it would be incredibly difficult for a lot of them
edgy arrow
64 streak at 24 seems easy enough
solemn pulsar
nyaa means 24 aspects at 64 heat
edgy arrow
yeah ik lol
you'd have to spend a year routing to do all of those lol
even with a perfect route i don't think anyone but retrash could do 64 heat zag sword
solemn pulsar
yeah EM2, 3, and 4 are the main obstacles
and DC2 is a hard stop for aspects like hestia, arthur, even like guan yu
tidal flame
nyaa means 24 aspects at 64 heat
And sub 5 minute lol
solemn pulsar
well i was ignoring the combination of the two since that's literally impossible
solemn pulsar
sub 5 is still pretty tough
edgy arrow
for sure
solemn pulsar
some aspects just dont have the tools to assemble an OP build
like the current routed record (and the old one) is a nemesis build amped to hell by chaos
edgy arrow
with literally perfect room rng tho
i mean idk i'm not a speedrunner
that's true, and it isn't even that much faster than sub 5 iirc
solemn pulsar
like how do you even make a chiron build that can get sub 5
solemn pulsar
yeah you'd abandon special pretty much
take twin/flurry/triple, not sure which is best
grab artemis attack, hunter dash, and pressure points
and just stack chaos dash attack boons, same as nemesis
quartz mantle
Yea that sounds about right
solemn pulsar
but it would still be slower than nem
quartz mantle
and with enough free rooms you'd get good times
solemn pulsar
yeah but sub 5 is hard
anyway
back to HIGH heat
it's a shame how DC2 is a hard stop for some weapons from pushing heat
dire steppe
with distant memory
quartz mantle
it's a shame how DC2 is a hard stop for some weapons from pushing heat
Sad Hestia noises
edgy arrow
just do lightning strike hestia ez
dire steppe
yeah it’s sad that rama can’t take dc
rama would be such a good weapon if damage control didn’t kill it
edgy arrow
unironically that could actually worked in a routed context
get splitting bolt in tartarus, there's your damage
quartz mantle
Didn't someone say Seastorm Hestia is not a bad idea cause you get good damage before getting seastorm and then you can pivot to supersoaker nonsense?
dire steppe
get splitting bolt in tartarus, there's your damage
so you mean bad eris
dire steppe
Didn't someone say Seastorm Hestia is not a bad idea cause you get good damage b...
Tempest strike is not good damage
edgy arrow
yes that's exactly what i mean lmao
ye tempest strike's +% is garbage
and supersoaker isn't really that good
quartz mantle
Yea but you still have Hestia
edgy arrow
its fine but mostly meme
quartz mantle
Exactly
edgy arrow
Yea but you still have Hestia
i would legitimately rather run shackle all the way to hades than use tempest strike on hestia
dire steppe
Shackle is cheese
edgy arrow
the only attack boon i'd rank lower than tempest on hestia is drunken
with lightning strike at least you can switch to budget eris
vital grove
Yeah no
edgy arrow
i don't understand are you messing with me rn
dire steppe
edgy arrow
yes, i know people have made poor decisions in the past
that doesn't make it good
like, that's also running RI3 lmao
vital grove
I mean literal shackle would outperform that
solemn pulsar
yeah if you want to strip DC just use zeus attack
better t2 boons and duos and such
mossy zinc
What's that build called? Drunken Bad Skelly?
edgy arrow
maybe arthur's best answer to DC
mossy zinc
Or Blade Dash.
mossy zinc
Or Dash-to-a-better-weapon-and-pick-that Dash.
edgy arrow
forget athena, that one's the best dash in the game
mossy zinc
No. Passion Dash is the best Dash boon in the game. 💕
edgy arrow
if you say so
edgy arrow
nice
mossy zinc
Nice! Congratulations!
edgy arrow
yeah that pact is interesting, but it makes a lot of sense
solar maple
I forgot to turn off fiery lol
edgy arrow
its hard to go really fast with zeus unless you're baj lol
unique zephyr
sword experts, is piercing wave just terrible or am I using it wrong? I took it on poseidon and it felt awkward tbh
solar maple
yeah this was a good build + 2 sack and I almost timed out
piercing wave is pretty good
you should mostly just ignore it and it does pretty good damage
don't try to use it as a ranged attack
unique zephyr
oh don't actually try to use the wave part?
solar maple
yeah just attack normally
the wave will hit too
you can use the wave at range but it's very slow
would only really do that to snipe DC shields or 1hp enemies
+30 damage to each attack is quite nice though
it's no double edge, but it is #2/3 hammer
unique zephyr
so it's more +30 damage to attack and less a ranged attack
right?
World splitter is bad though, right?
I don't know much about sword
I have breaching slash as an option for this time and I feel like I should probably take that instead
but I don't know much about world splitter, but it seems slow?
solar maple
CHOP
solar maple
first run with that pact
several failed attempts on other pacts
this one felt the best by far, and I got quite lucky
RI3 gaming
bronze viper
Interesting. I'll try something like this after I'm done with Rama again. Zag Bow 50 giving me anxiety
edgy arrow
with the safety of a shield TD2 plus JS3 and CP2 might be easier than RI3
but i'm not sure
i can see the RI3 pact working
solar maple
nah
edgy arrow
i mean, obviously it did
solar maple
js3 cp2 makes fights hard
edgy arrow
for sure
bronze viper
I'll probably try JS3 CP2 just to practice, my efficiency with Zeus aspect is... not ideal
edgy arrow
i mean, you demonstrably have more experience with 50 heat zeus so i'm sure you're right
edgy arrow
i have literally never tried zeus past 40 so a bit is more than me lol
edgy arrow
oh yeah
solar maple
so you go hell mode as well
edgy arrow
my math bad
bronze viper
I miss the crap out of CP0. It's so nice on so many aspects
shy gulch
for sure
pseudo imma try that pact later when i get some time
i still want to do zeus 50
i feel like i can do quite a few aspects at 45 but the jump from 45 to 50 is just brutal
solar maple
with JS1 I'm not really scared of dying in normal rooms and timer isn't that bad (ignore my slow pace, I played super safe phase 1 dad)
shy gulch
more RI / AP 😭
edgy arrow
just looking at the spreadsheet, Baj has only one 50 and he dropped the JS CF and RI3 and just went EM4
which is prolly valid
shy gulch
shut
bronze viper
Lol, I finished 50 Hestia in a couple of attempts and I still feel like I have no idea how to play that aspect. Hard carry.
edgy arrow
i only know beo which is definitely skewing my opinion
solar maple
yeah I'm not doing em4 lol
edgy arrow
but its JS0 CP0
solar maple
with zeus
bronze viper
Yeah, not even considering HL, CP, or FO, EM4 TD3 by itself is so rough
solar maple
I would have to be way better at zeus mechanics for me to be comfortable with that
shy gulch
for sure ledger
i have to get used to zeus at high heat again tho
aka bull rushing lol
im too used to any heat where i almost never bullrush
shy gulch
its the Gamer weapon
edgy arrow
okay Baj apparently changed his mind about EM4 because he didn't use it for 55 lol
unique zephyr
Poseidon sword with zeus cast is fun but picking up the bloodstones is not
shy gulch
i mean his 57 clear didnt have it
edgy arrow
wait really
unique zephyr
it clears rooms well at least
shy gulch
yeah both baj and tail used the same pact for clearing 57 initially
edgy arrow
huh you're right
shy gulch
it was like EM3 RI2 i think?
edgy arrow
been too long since i watched it obviously
shy gulch
maybe non hell mode
edgy arrow
RI3
shy gulch
right
unique zephyr
RI sounds like pain, even RI1 gives you crappy rooms
edgy arrow
god gamer
unique zephyr
fewer boons is awful with underworld customs
solar maple
^^ I agree
unique zephyr
Dark foresight feels like it makes your builds so much better
shy gulch
50 and higher is just screaming into the void except the void shanks you back
solar maple
god's pride is also v nice
unique zephyr
Actually having epic boons rocks
solar maple
yeah 50 heat you have to pick 1-2 brutal pacts
unique zephyr
Have all aspects been cleared at 50 yet?
shy gulch
usually its just more RI and AP
wintry berry
RI2 is where a common boon makes me happy
unique zephyr
Or are there still some that haven’t
solar maple
all have been done at 50
edgy arrow
^
unique zephyr
Nice
solar maple
yeah they are something else haha
edgy arrow
they've all been done at 51 except Hera actually
unique zephyr
EM4 with TD3 seems like it would be very hard
solar maple
em4 td3 ez with beo
edgy arrow
for a given value of "ez"
solar maple
ez
well the timer is almost never that bad on a 2-3 sack in my experience
the fight is still tough, but only takes ~3 mins
edgy arrow
yeah true
solar maple
and beo clears styx tunnels very fast
edgy arrow
ignoring bad sack rng, elysium is usually more of a concern for me
bad rooms with JS3 CP2 DC1-2 can still mess me up sometimes
edgy arrow
oh i was doing a bunch of 53s for while
edgy arrow
i'm taking a break and doing speedruns for a while rn
shy gulch
DC is awful
solar maple
DC2 loses more time than em4 tbh
shy gulch
what are your speed goals atm
edgy arrow
my last "speedrun" was a 15:15 zeus shield
shy gulch
tbf zeus shield is hard
edgy arrow
in my defense, it was a 5 sack
edgy arrow
rn my goal is just 6x sub 10
shy gulch
thats a pretty good goal
edgy arrow
just cause i want a better looking victory screen lol
solar maple
I remember doing that. Quite fun
shy gulch
this is a lot of deja vu for me since i also moved from high heat to speed, and 6x sub 10 was also one of my goals
solar maple
had to actually learn the other weapons
shy gulch
i really like doing sub x for all weapons
like pseudo said u do actually get to learn other weapons
solar maple
yeah sub 10 bow took me a little while
shy gulch
i think sword was the hardest for me
solar maple
partly because of my insistence on using rama lol
shy plinth
What's the speed bow, hera?
shy gulch
hera yeah
edgy arrow
what's actually the fastest bow
shy gulch
zag and rama can both go fast but hera is the most consistent
edgy arrow
is it hera?
solar maple
hera for sure
shy gulch
zag has the highest top end
shy plinth
I would guess hera yeah
shy gulch
imo
shy plinth
Oh really? Artemis attack?
mossy zinc
Hmmm.
mossy zinc
Rama has the best base DPS.
shy gulch
that 15% crit is no joke
shy gulch
yeah half of that was bablo being bablo
solar maple
I still don't understand
shy gulch
but i do think zag bow has a ridiculous top end
hera is still the most common bow for speed for a good reason
bronze viper
Zag Bow's top end is very close to Rama's I think, but it's sooo boon/hammer reliant
unique zephyr
I might try sub 15 after doing 6 x 32
mossy zinc
@unique zephyr what's your best time now?
bronze viper
If you get Triple + Flurry + Deadly Strike + Swift Strike you will instantly delete everything you touch
solar maple
rama's room clear is just a bit too slow with super highroll builds for it to be competitive at th etop of any heat
bronze viper
Twin is safer but less bursty
solar maple
it still can go quite fast though
shy gulch
personally i prefer something like point blank or perfect to flurry on zag
it feels so weird to me
but i think im just bad
solar maple
yeah I'm terrible with flurry but I think that's mostly a me being bad thing
wintry berry
I don't know how to use flurry shot, feels weird to not being able to dash strike powershot
shy gulch
right?? its a much different rhythm
bronze viper
It plays like fast Hestia if you want to be mobile, but you can also stand still and lock something down with stun, like Lucifer if it was good
shy gulch
lucifer is good :(
mossy zinc
Is it?
wintry berry
ngl I didn't grind bow like I banged my head on arthur swings
shy gulch
yes
solar maple
luci is pretty good just overshadowed by eris in every way
bronze viper
What is Lucy's high roll build? Deadly Flourish + Triple Bomb?
shy gulch
i like luci
yeah that’s about right
triple bomb deadly flourish is just so much damage it’s hilarious
bronze viper
Is it more than Cluster (not even Cluster Rocket) Deadly Flourish Eris?
unique zephyr
<@!266732686838595606> what's your best time now?
It is 16:10
shy gulch
oh not even cluster rockets? then triple bomb luci might be better
bronze viper
Interesting. Yeah, cluster rockets aren't worth a discussion, it's better than the game lmao
shy gulch
lol yea
wintry berry
Triple bomb lucy is slower than cluster rocket
shy gulch
yee
also sub 15 is a fine goal, whatever works to give you something in sight to work towards
bronze viper
Cluster Rocket is like Demeter aspect proc but if it had long range, a shorter CD, and no animation time
shy gulch
and was just stronger
solar maple
sub 15 is a good first goal
shy gulch
and aoe
bronze viper
Explosive Upper Deadly Flourish is pretty dang strong idk.
mossy zinc
It is 16:10
That's pretty good. Just keep working on sub 16 and getting those 32 Heat clears for now. Sub 15 comes after sub 16.
You're improving at a steady pace, from what I can tell.
unique zephyr
I meant sub 16 my bad
bronze viper
Lol, it's funny because Cluster bomb by itself is actually really fun on Eris, I like optimizing the reticles for enemy positions, but then you get Rockets and it's all unga bunga from that point on.
unique zephyr
But yeah I’m practicing and improving slowly but steadily, learning more what my aspects do and which ones click
shy gulch
cluster rockets is like peak unga bunga lmao
solar maple
which aspect was your pb?
unique zephyr
Demeter fists
bronze viper
@unique zephyr You also can't play for that long at a time, right? You're improving really quickly considering.
unique zephyr
<@!266732686838595606> You also can't play for that long at a time, right? You'...
Yeah, 30 minutes at a time, sometimes that is pushing it a bit
Often I pause a run mid way and finish it later
bronze viper
Yeah I'd def cut yourself a break, you're getting better at a really solid pace
shy plinth
If you ever want to feel really fast, do a chiron run and then play literal any other weapon
"Wow I'm getting so much faster so quickly!"
bronze viper
I've timed out on TD1 in Tartarus before on Chaos :\
shy plinth
Ooooof
What do you have to do to make that weapon do damage
Shotgun thunder flourishes?
Get charged shot?
bronze viper
Thunder Flourish + Static Discharge, with Curse of Agony as side damage
Curse of Agony + Drunken Flourish Shotgun also good
bronze viper
I take Ares into Asphodel a lot lol, the doom damage is pretty important, and plays well to Chaos' damage loop
shy plinth
And hey maybe you can set up a mood
shy plinth
With athena it's kind of scuffed divine protection and with the bolts it's a decent amount of damage
But yes it is not worth going out of the way for
Especially at high heats getting hit sucks so bad so you really don't wanna take revenge boons
bronze viper
Also Codex says that Curse of Vengeance pre-reqs for Curse of Nausea but I still haven't seen that happen
shy plinth
I've seen it once!
bronze viper
Lies and slander
shy plinth
On 1.0 the requirements were all jacked up
I got curse of nausea once with just slicing shot
bronze viper
Lol
shy plinth
Which was not listed as a requirement then or now
bronze viper
The dream?
shy plinth
I mean it was fine
Curse of nausea is a good duo, slicing shot with dionysus is less good
edgy arrow
the only problem with curse of agony on chaos is the lack of synergy with charged shot
kinda annoying if you do luck into the hammer
otherwise good tho
unique zephyr
If you ever want to feel really fast, do a chiron run and then play literal any ...
Chiron, then zag bow lol
shy plinth
the only problem with curse of agony on chaos is the lack of synergy with charge...
There is one important synergy you are forgetting about
You get to call it DOOM BOOM
Otherwise yes it is suboptimal
edgy arrow
lol
unique zephyr
Do you even charge shot with Rama with exploding shot?
It felt so slow the one time I took it on Rama
daring hedge
no yeah actually trying to do power shots or charge a good amount with explosive rama is pretty much not worth it
with explosive you hope you have triple also, and just spam uncharged dash strikes
that said: AP2 forcing you into explosive and sniper is extremely funny and trying to actually get a power shot snipe in this state is even funnier
edgy arrow
lmao
pretty sure i’ve never had that hammer combo and now i’m sad
sounds like a fun mini game
a hypothetical explosive + sniper + perfect hammer combo would be absolutely ludicrous damage in the most inconvenient package conceivable
shy plinth
Well you need to anvil to get the perfect third hammer right
edgy arrow
that’s +650% damage
edgy arrow
then you can’t have perfect tho
edgy arrow
repulse was too perfect so they had to make it not work with sea storm
shy plinth
OH WAIT THAT WORKED?
shy plinth
Boo
edgy arrow
ikr
daring hedge
it should work 
mossy zinc
Quit your whining. Git gud. 
shy plinth
@daring hedge what do you usually keepsake for hades spear
daring hedge
either shackle or arrowhead usually
shy plinth
Makes sense
I was trying to figure out an actual spear build
But it feels like hades is nearly pure mechanical execution
bronze viper
Lol, yeah, there isn't much cheese in Hades aspect.
shy plinth
Mmm... cheese
gaunt fiber
Cheese good
edgy arrow
is there a god of cheese in greek myth
if not, why not
hmm there is
Aristaeus
actually wait he seems to be mostly a god of beekeeping
but he also invented cheese i think so close enough
shy plinth
Cheese and honey mmmmm
edgy arrow
ancient greek god of delicious snacks
honest kernel
vital grove
Yeah saw it live, insanity
64 routed is done.
Now we wait for Tail
And the 64 regular
bright mango
👀
sullen minnow
Holy hell what aspect?
bronze viper
Baj
sullen minnow
Hell yessss
formal gust
time for tailesque to make his own route by himself and then complete it one second faster
solemn pulsar
time for tailesque to make his own route by himself and then complete it one sec...
i am doing his next, lol
edgy arrow
time for tailesque to make his own route by himself and then complete it one sec...
did you see Baj’s time tho
formal gust
yeah
edgy arrow
it... wasn’t slow
honest kernel
At 'least Cgull is better equipped to deal with the mods' BS
bronze viper
Lol, idk if you can route to give Rama a shield
honest kernel
Since Hyper Delivery ain't the best on Rama, you could go extra dashes
edgy arrow
i think you route to give Rama +dashes
formal gust
pretty heckin poggies
edgy arrow
yeah
vital grove
How about faster attack does that help?
bronze viper
Nope
honest kernel
which is what you do on Rama almost all the time
If anything
Second Wind is dope
solemn pulsar
yeah rama needs dashes
vital grove
Eh, I have not picked up faster attack in forever on anything
solemn pulsar
or else you dead
formal gust
what's so bad about first wind tho
bronze viper
Not having the shield is a big deal. I think you'd need Stubborn Roots
sudden cargo
Tail's latest record he barely lost his SD so I think he'll be aight ahah
formal gust
and did wind really warrant a sequel in the first place
bronze viper
Or did they fix that?
solemn pulsar
you can get it
honest kernel
Tail's latest record he barely lost his SD so I think he'll be aight ahah
Well he had the SD to begin with
solemn pulsar
but you'd have to route a skelly tooth loss in the room with the reward
and idk how that works
honest kernel
That is a huge deal
vital grove
Can you get a DD off Athena if you go tooth?
honest kernel
Yes
sudden cargo
Yee I mean he didn't need it until hades
bright mango
Yeah with 64 no SD
solemn pulsar
yeah
sudden cargo
But still a huge deal for sure
honest kernel
I did not expect zeus shield to be the first weapon to break the record
solemn pulsar
well to be more accurate, it's just Baj that broke the record, and zeus shield is his tool of choice
but yeah
bronze viper
Lol, maybe you can route 100% dodge with Plume
sullen minnow
My favorite caveman weapon is a record holder
vital grove
No ruthless tho
solemn pulsar
clearing JS3 CP2 DC2 BP2 rooms fast? good luck
sullen minnow
My heart soars
formal gust
new 64 heat category for speedruns
bright mango
Does plume take into account JS3 CP2?
bronze viper
With Rama? It's not that bad.
bright mango
Like ik it extends with boss fights
bronze viper
You won't get every room but you'll get a decent number
Especially with Twin/Triple
vital grove
Epic evasion and second wind hm
unique zephyr
Where can I see the 64 heat routed run
honest kernel
^
bright mango
Where can I see the 64 heat routed run
Baj will upload it later
honest kernel
on it right now
bright mango
Okay cgull already answered it
mossy zinc
@honest kernel congratulations!
formal gust
this is a massive milestone routed or not
mossy zinc
Don't forget about us when you move to Hollywood.
formal gust
you have certified legendary status
vital grove
Aspect of Baj forever and always
edgy arrow
yeah this is huge as a proof of concept apart from anything else
formal gust
and this was a pretty small project in the grand scheme of things, which makes it more impressive
unique zephyr
Nice job, Baj 🙂
sullen minnow
I wonder what the heat record inside of SGG is
edgy arrow
yeah Baj smashed it out so quickly once the route was done
sullen minnow
They’ve got to be as blown away as anyone
edgy arrow
when cgull said it was ready i was expecting it to take weeks
tropic stream
tfw activate vengeful mood in tartarus then never get offered it ever
edgy arrow
and i still would’ve been impressed
honest kernel
I have enough failed attempts at 60+ heat due to the timer against Hades that I am at 'least used to EM4
And the biomes themselves
true fable
I wonder what the heat record inside of SGG is
inside sgg id surprised if courtenberrys 32 isnt a record
sullen minnow
Always gives me a chuckle how devs seem to get universally thrashed in their own game a short while after release and onward
But then again that whole “work” thing probably gets in the way a good deal
edgy arrow
yeah honestly i doubt i’d have put 600+ hours into this game if making it was my day job
i’d prolly play something else in my spare time
sullen minnow
Tru
solemn pulsar
makes sense that courtenberry has played so much, and darren is the "best one" according to them. since their roles are both more separated from the actual "coding and playtesting the game", though I'm sure at least darren did a lot of that
so they might be less "burned"
urban crater
Holy smokes did it happen before I got to it?
edgy arrow
indeed it did
sullen minnow
Makes me rose-eyed for some of the very first times the Valve team squared up with TF2 players and waxed them
solemn pulsar
yeah I made the route last week after Para updated the door prediction mod to handle approval process @urban crater
urban crater
Ohhh it works for approval process now??
solemn pulsar
safe to say my routing process was much easier than what you had to deal with lol
yep
sullen minnow
Because they had so much time in the game they had a whole new level of meta that no one was ready for. It was amazing to watch devs actually dominate
urban crater
Also sick that we have new people routing
I've been sick as a dog for months now so I wasn't able to put much work in, but I'm so happy this finally happened
Incredible stuff I can't wait to see the run @solemn pulsar @honest kernel
solemn pulsar
dang, sorry to hear that. hope you're doing alright. very appreciative of all the work you'd done on routing to help bring it to the point where it's much easier to make happen than pre 1.0 🙂
urban crater
I'm doing alright, I'll live, I just can't play games much for a while
solemn pulsar
also i know your rule of thumb was <10 summons so when you watch pls don't be disgusted by the few times with dozens of summons 🙃
honest kernel
Casual 36 summons in Styx
urban crater
LMAO for max heat pre-1.0 I did way over a dozen summons a few times
solemn pulsar
i more meant the one where the timer is running in elysium
honest kernel
Oh yeah, 34 then
urban crater
any heat runs need few summons to be competitive
honest kernel
urban crater
max heat is like whatever works LMAO
solemn pulsar
yeah that's why i like the max heat
since it's more "make a sick fun route" than "hyper optimize your summons"
urban crater
I love the gameplay when its finally routed
Its hard but with the RNG gone its fair
I'm gonna contest the record though that's for sure when I recover that's for sure though
solemn pulsar
what weapon would you use? once i'm recovered from this i'll be making a rama route for tailesque next
urban crater
I was working on a Rama route before so probably that
I have a few honestly because its hard to determine what's best now that Chaos shield took a nerf
I do think chaos shield is very good
also HOLD the phone
is this the run?
solemn pulsar
yeah
urban crater
I was just sent this image
honest kernel
yup
solemn pulsar
oh we get cold fusion twice
honest kernel
Well we had cold fusion twice
urban crater
do you have six hands
honest kernel
To sell
solemn pulsar
and sell it both times
honest kernel
shy plinth
Zeus shield is one of the best weapons in the game but yes Baj may have 6 hands
solemn pulsar
hehehe technically it's active for furies and heroes fights
honest kernel
Cold Fusion suuucks
solemn pulsar
nah not nerfed
edgy arrow
>zeus shield
Baj is a god on zeus
solemn pulsar
@honest kernel wasn't the bouldy boon move speed? GLOBAL DAMAGE
urban crater
I mean I believe it after seeing this
honest kernel
<@456226577798135808> wasn't the bouldy boon move speed? GLOBAL DAMAGE
That, or special damage
urban crater
Also now that I think of it cold fusion is probably way worse on zeus shield
honest kernel
Will have to check
solemn pulsar
baj also has a sub 7 minute time on zeus shield (unseeded)
urban crater
Its very very good on chaos shield since you can just keep dealing damage while kiting
solemn pulsar
he is quite good at it
honest kernel
Also now that I think of it cold fusion is probably way worse on zeus shield
The better you are, the less useful it is
urban crater
True
honest kernel
on Zeus shield
solemn pulsar
yeah he took 36 damage all run prior to the hades fight
urban crater
Controller or Kbm?
solemn pulsar
KBM
honest kernel
And actually perfected EM3
solemn pulsar
i think that's his secret
honest kernel
Accorn took no charges lol
solemn pulsar
there was a point where theseus was charging at you and you threw the shield and it ate every bullet and didn't hit you ONCE. it was nuts
urban crater
KBM is very good for certain weapons, I just never enjoyed Zeus shield so I never used it
Tfw its actually secret kbm tech
Like spear
urban crater
Really? Chaos shield is ezpz on kbm for me
solemn pulsar
the route actually almost broke, since when he turned mods off it mirrored all the tartarus rooms (still not sure why), and the mirrored midshop increments were busted
shy gulch
by holding and releasing the attack button
shy plinth
like, how do y’all bull rush?
Hold the button down
edgy arrow
Really? Chaos shield is ezpz on kbm for me
yeah that’s what i’m saying
shy plinth
Yes what croven said
solemn pulsar
but baj found a way around, and museus saved us with a purging well manip
edgy arrow
good on KBM, bad on controller
urban crater
the route actually almost broke, since when he turned mods off it mirrored all t...
The game is extremely sensitive to any modifications or changes its really odd
solemn pulsar
and then we got mega lucky on a demeter boon
honest kernel
Like
solemn pulsar
basically after the hotfix, all demeter boon rewards changed
honest kernel
The Killing Freeze was a crap shoot
urban crater
Don't get me started on the infinite room bug I found one time while routing
solemn pulsar
5 increments away lmao
honest kernel
no, 5
urban crater
Yeah each summon is 2