h1-high-heat-strategies

[solar maple]

he plays em4 crazy well though

[true fable]

range is a crutch

[edgy arrow]

yeah ik lol

[true fable]

play zag sword like a man

[edgy arrow]

i’m doing it to make myself feel good, not to get good

[solar maple]

beo skills don't translate 😦

[daring hedge]

hestia gets more complicated at like over 50 but before that it's so

[true fable]

fair enough haha

[daring hedge]

point and click

[solar maple]

I still need to do 50 rama/hestia

[true fable]

i dont think it gets too complicated until you take away second dash

[solar maple]

why am I so bad at hestia 😦

[true fable]

lol

[solar maple]

I do about as well with nem sword as hestia LMAO

[daring hedge]

i guess i mostly mean using hestia fully when you need to

[shy gulch]

yeah i dont think hestia really teaches you any skills that much

[true fable]

pseudo made a deal with the devil

[daring hedge]

like actually using special properly

which people like crepes actually do

[shy gulch]

i think speedrunning hestia actually makes you learn the weapon

<=50 is mostly like point and click

[true fable]

"you will be able to clear 50 heat beo with any cast. but you will not be able to clear 50 with hestia"

"deal"

[solar maple]

100% worth

[shy gulch]

yeah thats worth as hell

[true fable]

def worth

go for icy again

:^)

[solar maple]

shoutout to that 54 heat attempt

or was it 52

I don't remember

oh it was 54 for sure

because I had RI

getting icy flare in elysium not the best way to build beo it turns out

[shy gulch]

yeah imo you should avoid any cast boon w beo

shackle zag cast is the way to go

[shy plinth]

I C Y F L A R E

The first recorded beo run on the sheet is icy flare

[edgy arrow]

shackle zag cast better than icy flare tho lol

[solar maple]

I think I had already taken off shackle

[daring hedge]

i like this bit of lore

[solar maple]

because I was scared

[shy plinth]

Horheristo

[solar maple]

and was just going to pick up the first cast I found

[shy plinth]

A name you may not have heard in a while

[solar maple]

I did pick up the first cast I found

and it was even worse than I thought

[edgy arrow]

what in the world were you afraid of

losing a run were you didn’t even have a cast?

[solar maple]

also a good amount of my damage was coming from smoldering + zeus call

so I used earring for global damage iirc

more damage overall than shackle zag cast

since I also had an attack boon

[edgy arrow]

fair

[slow sable]

Doesn’t really count as high heat, but any tips for a boonless EM4 run to get the special dialogue? iirc I can still take chaos boons, right?

[solar maple]

you can yes

take shackle with a weapon with good base damage

like rama, hestia, or zeus shield

[slow sable]

Prolly Rama

[edgy arrow]

there’s special dialogue for boonless EM4?

[solar maple]

(or beo)

[slow sable]

Yeah I’ll probably use that

[shy gulch]

pseudo no

[solar maple]

[slow sable]

Eeeew shield

[edgy arrow]

shackle beo good

[slow sable]

Any shield is busted for the Hades fight tbf

[edgy arrow]

sigh so much beo hate in the world

[solar maple]

if I had to do boonless em4 I would probably do beo LMAO

[edgy arrow]

same

[shy gulch]

yeah but ur pseudo

id just be a loser and do hestia prob

[solar maple]

would not recommend though

[edgy arrow]

i swear it wouldn’t even be that bad

[solar maple]

hestia/rama/zeus seems better

[slow sable]

I think beo is the coolest shield but it doesn’t have as much flexibility so I get bored with it kinda quickly

[edgy arrow]

it’s super flexible; you can use any cast you want, even zeus!

[slow sable]

I can’t take any boons, right? It’s not that I only have to avoid the core boons, but I can’t take any into the final boss fight?

[edgy arrow]

(don’t use zeus)

[solar maple]

I mean I did do 50 heat zeus cast

don't use zeus cast pls

it's bad

[daring hedge]

i don't think hades has boonless dialogue specific to EM4

[edgy arrow]

^

[bright mango]

Pseudo is good at@ beo

[solar maple]

pos/aphro/arty /stygian dio are all good though

[bright mango]

Listen to him

[edgy arrow]

yeah i’ve never heard of that

[solar maple]

and yeah I think you don't need em4

[edgy arrow]

but pseudo what about slicing flare

[solar maple]

but if you want to boonless em4 does sound like a fin challenge

[edgy arrow]

the best one

[solar maple]

I still haven't won with slicing 😦

[edgy arrow]

it’s so good they had to make it not work with hunting blades

[slow sable]

I suck at the Hades fight so that’s a life saver lol

[solar maple]

lost in dad fight on a promising run

[bright mango]

Slicing 50 when pseudo

[solar maple]

it's hard ok

not sure if infernal or stygian is better with slicing

[shy gulch]

i want to say infernal

the duration is rly short

[solar maple]

yeah I think infernal as well now

I did a stygian and even with an extra cast it was pretty stinky

[edgy arrow]

idk; both options seem bad

i mean, both are amazing best cast for sure

[daring hedge]

perhaps slicing bad

[edgy arrow]

😮

[daring hedge]

i mean no yeah it's great of course

[edgy arrow]

ofc ofc

[solar maple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778725540643340312/817571369394503700/Screen_Shot_2021-03-05_at_5.36.31_PM.png updated infernal beo cast tier list

[edgy arrow]

do you think they just accidentally left the pom scaling for crystal beam on icy flare or something

[solar maple]

yeah probably lol

but why does beam have bad pom scaling???

I don't get it

[edgy arrow]

idk lol

[bright mango]

I still feel the damage of flood flare is a bit lacking but the giant aoe makes up for it

[shy plinth]

Have you met my good buddy wave pounding

He disagrees

[solar maple]

pengy you aren't wrong

T2 is very close to T1 imo

[shy plinth]

Do you think flood flare would be better if it had like 80 more damage per knockback

[solar maple]

but the aoe makes it better by enough to seperate I think

[shy plinth]

Maybe like a bolt of extra damage

Just thinking out loud idk

[solar maple]

[shy plinth]

I could really sea that making a difference

[solar maple]

just brainstorming

[shy plinth]

I knew I liked you

[solar maple]

alright my missions for this weekend: actually clear a rama/hestia run

mirrorless beo (probably 40 heat)

new beo heat wr (hopefully 56)

[edgy arrow]

that’s... a lot of missions

[solar maple]

if I get 1 of those I'll be happy

but whenever I tilt I switch to a different misison

[edgy arrow]

smart probably

[solar maple]

before all of that though: actually go buy batteries lmao

look the store is a mile away in the snow and I don't have a car

and I'm lazy

[edgy arrow]

you used snow burst too much, and now there’s snow everywhere

[solar maple]

it's true

my batteries ran out the day after I had gone shopping and I didn't want to go again

I hadn't really thought about it but mirrorless 40 is like a DD 32 heat pact

you just don't get the DDs or half of your damage

[edgy arrow]

lol

[bright mango]

RI is free heat when you are doing a mirrorless run 🤯

Change my mind

[solar maple]

em4 is free heat if you die in elysium

[edgy arrow]

UC is free heat for boonless

HL is free for hitless

[solar maple]

AP is free heat if you are retrash

[edgy arrow]

lmao

[daring hedge]

or bright

ez ME and sea storm

[edgy arrow]

zag sword is free heat if- wait no that technically isn’t a pact

remember that time Schad got heart rend in like chamber 5 or something on AP2

life goals

[daring hedge]

i kinda do yeah good lord

[solar maple]

one of these days I will get fully loaded on AP2

and question all my life choices

DC is free heat if

wait no

it never is

[shy plinth]

DC is free heat if you never hit the mob

[solar maple]

I was watching astaos try 50 heat GY yesterday

I could never do that haha

[edgy arrow]

DC is free heat if you’re thanatos

except when he’s directly helping zag through mort

then it isn’t free

[bright mango]

It just seems like a nightmare

I've been watching for like 2 weeks now and have now realized how punishing the -50 health is

You are literally one shot the entire run

[solar maple]

the fact that he had to do like a 4 min heroes fight with <100 health is insane

[bright mango]

Yeah

Mad skillz

[solar maple]

I start with 100 health and my heroes fights are 1/3 as long

how does he do it lmao

[bright mango]

Idk you just have to be so clean for the entire run

There are no mistakes

[edgy arrow]

watching Astaos’ stream is funny because i see him play amazingly well and then he dies because it’s GY and he’s like “oh i’m playing trash”

[bright mango]

Yeah lol

Its just like random chariots in elysium will just one shot you

And then he's like "why am I so bad"

[unique zephyr]

decided to max out zag bow and i'm liking it so far

[solar maple]

zag bow is just good chiron

really though, zag bow is a pretty decent weapon

it's just overshadowed by hera in speedruns and rama in high heat

[shy plinth]

If your weapon's worst aspect is chiron that's a pretty good spot

I think that is the best worst aspect

[solar maple]

yeah bow aspects are some of the more balanced ones

and chiron is the worst imo yeah

[shy plinth]

Other option would be chaos/zag shield I guess?

[solar maple]

rail has all pretty strong ones as well

[shy plinth]

There are two good shields and two bad ones that are still shields

Yeah

Zag is fine

[solar maple]

zag is fine, lucy is fine, hestia/eris are great

[shy plinth]

Ugh how do people play stygius aspects

[solar maple]

nem is fun

[shy plinth]

I am close to preferring spear over sword

It is if you can find double edge

[solar maple]

I would never do spear OWO

all the others would be fine

but spear...

bleh

[shy plinth]

Yeah spear is sketchy

Zag spear is pretty not great

And guan yu is good if you're a gy main I guess?

But it's so weird and different even if the damage is good

[solar maple]

also poseidon sword is very fun

[shy plinth]

Oh yes

But that's not really stygius is it

You hold the sword in your offhand while you jam the cast button

[solar maple]

arthur is unique, so I don't mind it so much

[shy plinth]

Arthur is dope

[solar maple]

but zag sword....

[shy plinth]

Zag Sword so stinky

[solar maple]

zag spear is probably my least favorite aspect in the game

that or gilga

[wide quest]

6/40 or 24/32, which one should i do first??

[solar maple]

personal preference. I would enjoy 6/40 more, but it's up to you

[wide quest]

ight ill see if i can do 40 with bow later tonight :3

[shy gulch]

genuinely speaking i think chiron might be my least favorite aspect now

zag spear is close but the ability to get flurry jab just barely saves it

[solar maple]

chiron is bottom 5 for me for sure

nah flurry jab just makes it worse for me

[shy gulch]

zag sword grew on me after doing a bit of fresh file

zag rail is actually p low too i do not like that weapon

[solar maple]

being a 1 hammer weapon I just really hate

the only reason nem isn't a top 3 fun weapon for me is because of dedge

[true fable]

in case you couldnt tell i despise hades spear

well

zag rail is actually quite fun with flurry fire too

ngl

gun go pew

[solar maple]

same thing though

you only get to play it once a week

[true fable]

well that means there are like 5 hammers that are nice

it's also a rail where hazard bomb is good

[solar maple]

oh wait you didn't say spread

[true fable]

which is neat and cool

i like rocket/cluster/spread/flurry/hazard on zag

they all lead to fun and interesting things

[daring hedge]

😔

[true fable]

nothing against you tail

your favorite weapon just sucks

[unique zephyr]

Zag bow is nem but good

[solar maple]

no

[unique zephyr]

Crit tho

[true fable]

theyre very different

[unique zephyr]

Zag bow crits feel good

[daring hedge]

yeah that's kind of a twilight zone statement

[true fable]

nem you have to special

thats very diff

[unique zephyr]

That’s true zag bow is very safe

[true fable]

even if it doesnt seem like it on the surface

[unique zephyr]

I was meme if about crit partly but didn’t realize that

[solar maple]

nem sword does so much damage

[unique zephyr]

You have to survive though

[solar maple]

and the dash attacks are fun

[unique zephyr]

You do 0 damage when dead

[daring hedge]

yeah, nem's main problem at high heat is just being safe

[unique zephyr]

I like zag bow dash attacks

[daring hedge]

damage is huge

[unique zephyr]

Especially with arty dash

But yeah I’ve seen chonky damage from nem

It’s just very unsafe lol

[sullen minnow]

Zag bow is nem with a little less damage and a lot more safety

And waaaay better hammers

[unique zephyr]

I also like the zag bow dash attack sound when you power shot

Very satisfying

[sullen minnow]

indeed it is

[solar maple]

better hammers on average

[unique zephyr]

I find sound effects influence how I like the weapon

[sullen minnow]

I like that there’s a good number of hammer builds for zag bow

[solar maple]

Dedge is a top 2 hammer in the game

maybe the best

[unique zephyr]

I find a lot of the hammers on zag bow are good

[sullen minnow]

As opposed to exactly 1 for sword

[daring hedge]

dedge just as a hammer in general is absolutely nuts

[unique zephyr]

You generally get one good choice, but double edge is so good yeah

Basically more than double damage on dash strike

[sullen minnow]

Dedge is damn good but I refuse to award it many points because of the awfulness of the rest of sword’s kit

[unique zephyr]

You can’t reroll hammers either

[daring hedge]

sword special is honestly pretty good imo

[unique zephyr]

So having better hammers on average is more important

[sullen minnow]

It might be better than twin shot but triple, explosive and bouncing shot also dont kneecap your run

[daring hedge]

makes the ds ds special rotation feel pretty fine

[solar maple]

dedge > twin/triple >>>>> all of swords other hammers

[unique zephyr]

I bet getting AP2 cursed slash in elysium would feel so bad

[daring hedge]

can confirm

it does

[sullen minnow]

cursed_thoughts

[solar maple]

also can confirm

have gotten elysium cursed slash on 50 heat nem

it sucks

[daring hedge]

also flurry slash at high heat can be

[unique zephyr]

Was dedge crossed out too

[daring hedge]

awful

[unique zephyr]

That would be the worst

Just bad feeling I mean

[solar maple]

I don't look at the crossed out hammers on AP2

[sullen minnow]

thats why I favor zag bow

[solar maple]

it just causes suffering

[unique zephyr]

That’s good for sanity pseudo

[sullen minnow]

Nem has the higher ceiling but there’s a million ways to die in the west there

[unique zephyr]

Dedge is a high roll

[solar maple]

I do think I can do 50 heat nem without dedge though

which is the only reason I still try

[unique zephyr]

I used to dislike spear the most, now it’s sword I think

Arthur was fun on low heat

I did 16 heat with Arthur, yay big numbers

[daring hedge]

yeah 50 nem does not need dedge, for sure

[solar maple]

idk I find the sword combos quite satisfying to do

I just want hammers that don't brick my run tbh

[sullen minnow]

sword apm makes my hands hurt lol

[solar maple]

is that too much to ask

[unique zephyr]

Why is flurry slash so bad

On high heat

[daring hedge]

ruins empty dashing opportunities

[sullen minnow]

The first three weapons in this game are Bad Sword, Better Sword, and Good Sword as far as I’m concerned

[daring hedge]

makes dash striking unsafe

[solar maple]

wait which 3 weapons are you even talking about aurash?

[sullen minnow]

I’m making a joke about how sword, spear and shield play somewhat similarly

[solar maple]

shield kind of doesn't though

I sort of get spear

[sullen minnow]

All being weapons with different kinds of “utility” special and a fairly basic attack

Yeah, it’s what sword would be if the weapon class moved and fought fluidly and safely lol

[solar maple]

I guess zag shield does

[sullen minnow]

Please excuse my terrible jokes

yeah I’m just thinking about the base aspects

[solar maple]

but I don't really think of zag shield when I think shield

[sullen minnow]

Like the weapons as ideas

[main delta]

has anyone tried skelly for erebus gates?

[solar maple]

talk to bright lol

he has

[main delta]

sometimes i wonder if using meg is even worth it if im not doing td3

[solar maple]

meg is useful vs bosses so you don't have to fight them as long

[sullen minnow]

I personally enjoy only fighting 2/3rds of a boss room

[main delta]

true

[solar maple]

Also remember you an use summons for invincibility frames

Good players (not me) often save meh for when they are in a tricky situation in a hard fight

[shy plinth]

What's the build here? I've tried deadly reversal but thinking that's not the play

[solar maple]

I just meh at the start becuase I would forget otherwise

[shy plinth]

Heart rend seems bomb

[solar maple]

HR is the most damage

[daring hedge]

yeah i mean heart rend is the ideal

[shy plinth]

I guess there's a world where you can low tol and headache

[solar maple]

But honestly you don't really need a build

[shy plinth]

But that seems like a meme dream

[solar maple]

Dedge is enough

[daring hedge]

but i mostly mean that nem inherently has big damage just from the start

[shy plinth]

Oh sure dedge

[shy gulch]

yeah sword is a weapon with a lot of damage itself, and nem the most

[solar maple]

Even base nem is huge damage

I start Athena dash with JS3 CP2 TD3 and rarely time out

Big base damage

[bright mango]

I think heartened is better for nem

Than DR

[solar maple]

30% crit is +60% multiplicative damage

which is massive

HR is slightly better, but they are close imo

DR is pretty much always active on nem, but HR is just a bit more damage even when active

so HR is better, and more consistent

[bright mango]

Makes sense

Although on something like athur I like deadly reversal

[true fable]

yeah sord good

[solar maple]

if you have arty attack and nem bonus that's 45% crit

[true fable]

sord hit hard

theres a reason why first run strats work

sord just like

has tools

good aoe on a 50 damage special

[bright mango]

sord

[true fable]

immediate 60 damage with 2 dash strikes

sord

[daring hedge]

i honestly think sword special builds are fun

[bright mango]

Nem is definitely one of my favorite aspects

[daring hedge]

NOT dash nova though

[sullen minnow]

Reject rapier

Return to sord

[solar maple]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778725540643340312/817595008344522782/Screen_Shot_2021-03-05_at_7.10.25_PM.png tier list of how much I enjoy the aspects

definitely not of how good they are/how good I am with them

[wanton plover]

i also love pos sord

[solar maple]

there is an easter egg

[pseudo girder]

Beo is probably some of the most fun I have had with a weapon aspect

[solar maple]

I didn't rank zag fists lmao

[pseudo girder]

Actually, you did.

You didn't rank Gilga.

[solar maple]

oh wait

I thought that bottom one was gilga

oops

lol

well it's not exactly in the wrong spot for zag fists tbh

[pseudo girder]

i agree but i do not like gilga slander

it hurts me

dash make you go w o o s h

[unique zephyr]

Wish I was good to do first runs

First runs sound horribly hard to complete tbh

[pseudo girder]

Here's my tier list of weapons ranked by how much fun I have with them: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/471435070658314241/817597609807446027/my-image_4.png

I'd put Zag Rail in Garbo if it wasn't for the fact that I like Rail as a weapon so much that I can't seriously say any Rail aspect is explicitly bad

[solar maple]

bacchus first run is really hard

I've tried a good amount and I've never won

it's comparable to ~50 heat imo

[wanton plover]

we take a lot of meta upgrades for granted

no sd is mega sad

[solar maple]

"spear" tier lmao

1 dash is the big one

I could knock it out in a day with 2 dashes I think

[pseudo girder]

They are. You have no mirror, you start off with the worst Sword aspect, and the only piece of solace you have is the fact Athena is your first boon, so if you're lucky, you can grab Divine Dash and stand a chance.

[solar maple]

divine dash is always offered first boon

no luck involved

first room is scripted

[pseudo girder]

Ah

...So yeah that's your only piece of solace in the world of Fresh File. You have Divine Dash.

...A single Divine Dash, mind you, but Divine Dash nonetheless.

Just hope for Hermes Greatest Reflex

[idle bronze]

You have to strive for Merciful End basically

[pseudo girder]

...Yeah, pretty much.

Worst part is, IIRC you don't have access to certain gods at the first Run no matter what

Dem is obvious, but I recall Zeus and Arti being among the others

...Which sucks, because that means no Deadly Reversal to supplement Merciful End

[idle bronze]

Hoping for two duos is always a risky proposition

[pseudo girder]

It is

But it helps

ME is basically a necessity as-is, so why not supplement Zag Sword's pathetic damage further with DR?

[shy gulch]

you cant get hermes in first run

one dash till the end

[unique zephyr]

The game really does not want you to win on the first run, huh

[pseudo girder]

no hermes first run
O O O F

all this just for a single slightly altered line

[slow sable]

Do Hermès boons count towards the boonless hades fight thing?

[unique zephyr]

I mean I can see why Supergiant did not want you to mess with the meta progression, I'm impressed that it's technically possible

and that people have done it

[solar maple]

I've gotten to hades a bunch of times

but I'm really bad at that fight with 1 dash

I only make it to phase 2 sometimes

and I've never gotten past half hp 2nd phase I think

[bronze viper]

Also Zag sword is kind of a grind at the best of times, but at the worst of times hoo boy. Fresh file just takes forever

[solar maple]

first run god pool is always Athena Ares Artemis Dionysus, which is pretty good tbh

obviously you would want to trade dio for something else, but it is what it is

[true fable]

first run i usually die to dad

FO0 timings are hella weird

lmao

especially if you have FO1/2 muscle memory

[edgy arrow]

arty is one of the ones you get, actually

so yes to DR

[bronze viper]

smh. I started a run with "Hestia" and it took me until room 2 to figure out why my damage was nonexistant (it was Eris)

[solar maple]

I've done the opposite quite a few times

harder to notice with accidental hestia I find

especially since you don't really need to reload in the first few chambers

[unique zephyr]

The Hestia shot also makes a distinct noise

[bronze viper]

lmao, I was getting salty because my mechanics are terrible tonight for some reason and I wasn't progressing at Zag bow 50 so I'm working Hestia 50. It's like drinking Fresca all your life then discovering they make water that doesn't suck.

[unique zephyr]

I like Hestia but I already did 32 with it and doubt I’m good enough for Hestia 40 yet

[solar maple]

for 32 heat you generally have a few tough options to choose from

40 heat is basically just the union of all those

you still don't have to take any of the absolutely miserable pacts though (RI, AP2, em4, etc)

[bronze viper]

LOL Thanatos you sneaky cheat. Speeder Savior Numbskulls how dare you

[mossy zinc]

RI difficulty is overrated.

[bronze viper]

I think it's pretty rated

[unique zephyr]

For my Hestia 32 I had no forced overtime, I can’t see avoiding FO at 40 lol

[solar maple]

yeah that's what I mean

[unique zephyr]

Hestia is a pretty safe weapon at least

[solar maple]

you get to choose if you want BP2 or FO2 or TD3

on 40 you just take all of them

[unique zephyr]

Time to go fast

Going fast is fun

Even if I’m bad at it right now

My fastest time on any heat is over 15 min so I’m still slow lol

What heat do you all most find fun? 32, 40, or 50 with your favorite aspects

40 will require me to be good at the game so I’ll feel good beating it

I must dodge well, go fast, etc

[bronze viper]

40 is my chill heat for aspects I like and my tryhard heat for aspects I don't

[unique zephyr]

I want 40 to be my chill heat someday

For an aspect or two

[bronze viper]

I think my favorite is probably 45 for aspects I like. 40 is a sweetspot though. If I'm road tripping on my Switch I'll probably practice mechanics on 40.

[solar maple]

my favorite heats are low heat speedruns, 40, and pushing the absolute max I can with an aspect

max = 45-58 depending on the aspect

[unique zephyr]

How long did it take doing high heat for 40 to become comfortable as an estimate

that's all interesting to know, thanks 🙂

From seeing Asatos running 50 guan yu I don't think I'd like 50

but not sure how much harder GY is on 50 than other aspects

since i don't know aspect strengths relative to each other

[bronze viper]

GY is a special case. It's fine at 50, but you can't ever take hits

So...

Idk, for 40 to become comfy? Like 400-500 hours maybe?

[unique zephyr]

i'm at 210 hours and I don't feel like I have explored the game lol

i feel like the high heats give the game more depth so far

having to learn mechanics and choices better

losing is fun

or at least I try to make it fun lol

i've been keeping FO2 on every run now

low heat ones too

and I feel like i'm gradually getting better by practicing

[solar maple]

yep. that's how it works

I really enjoy high heat and I pretty much never win

so yeah you kind of have to like dying for high heat to be fun

it gives it the old rogue like experience back

[shy plinth]

Losing to second half of phase 2 dad three 32s in a row >:3

[mossy zinc]

Have you tried not getting hit?

[shy plinth]

I did that except for all the times I got hit

It was almost good enough

[mossy zinc]

No, but seriously. You might be rushing the fight instead of just focusing on playing it clean.

[shy plinth]

Oh 100%

I'm playing it terribly

Adjusting to FO2, playing super aggressively (on fists too)

It's completely my fault for not keeping appropriate distance

[mossy zinc]

If at first you don't succeed, die, die again.

[shy plinth]

Mission accomplished

[mossy zinc]

You died again?

[shy plinth]

No I'd just made headway on dying

[bronze viper]

lmao, half asleep Hestia 50 down.

That was the clumsiest run I have ever had that succeeded.

[mossy zinc]

Congratulations!

Hestia doing Hestia things.

[honest kernel]

nice stuff

[bronze viper]

Level 1 Curse of Agony and boonless Hazard Bomb: The Build

[honest kernel]

lol

[bronze viper]

https://imgur.com/a/GCBRmBI

[honest kernel]

what the heck

[mossy zinc]

It's still +50% Attack damage.

[honest kernel]

ok but you have big dio call

[bronze viper]

Yeah it was like... most of my damage

Hazard Bomb I either forgot to use most of the time, or my brain told me to jump into like Eris

I did that maybe 3 times during the dad fight

[honest kernel]

heh

is 50 with hellmode easier? since you get at least a bit free heat

[bronze viper]

The freeness depends on aspect. It's very free on Hestia

But brimstones, witches, numbskull clusters, snakestones, dad lasers all get a whole lots scarier with it on

[honest kernel]

I'm too lazy to start a new save tho

I see thx

[mossy zinc]

speedrun.com has a max Hell mode save.

[honest kernel]

nice

[bronze viper]

"max" pff. They don't even have all of the badges

[honest kernel]

my current save doesnt even have max all weapons I want to max

but grinding is eeeeeeeh

[bronze viper]

I'm still uploading the video, but my favorite part of the run was the pretty clutch level 2 Skull Earring I took into Elysium

[honest kernel]

this might be perfect

[mossy zinc]

Lv.2 keepsakes is the new 50 Heat meta.

[bronze viper]

I was very tempted to take it into Styx considering I had patty and 300+ health but as you can see that would have been fatal

[honest kernel]

grinding ingame resources:
grinding high heat:

pfff

going for max achievments I see

[bronze viper]

huh?

[honest kernel]

theres one achievement for getting all keepsakes to lv3

it was meant to be a joke

[bronze viper]

Oh lol, I mean yeah I want to get it eventually. I hate seeing level 1 keepsakes in my stash

[mossy zinc]

If you don't get any keepsakes, they won't be Lv.1.

[vital grove]

They'll be level 0 instead

nonchalantly high-fives ledger #bowbros

[solar maple]

Level 2 tooth is actually better

Not even meming

[wanton plover]

how come? so it can level and recharge?

[unique zephyr]

I don’t see why either, I’m lost

[shy gulch]

this

extra hp isn’t too important and recharging is huge

[solar maple]

yeah when it levels up it recharges

so going into elysium with a tooth that will level before the boss is better

very impractical, and only a marginal benefit, but it is better

also I'm pretty sure like 1/3 of the keepsakes on my main save are still not maxed haha

I was 500+ runs in before I maxed dem keepsake lmao

it was before I knew the snowburst truth

[honest kernel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/624635342116618243/817677192883470377/unknown.png

[solar maple]

flurry is weird to use but not that bad

[honest kernel]

I havent used flurry since 1.0 so idk how it is

[solar maple]

is that zag bow?

[honest kernel]

hera

[solar maple]

ah hera

dio hera 👀

[honest kernel]

dio hera is lowkey lit

[edgy arrow]

dio hera good

[solar maple]

hammers also aren't that important on hera

I mean the zag bow hammers are nice, but cast damage is most of your scaling (or not idk I'm absolutely terrible at hera)

[honest kernel]

welp I died to ares trial spawning a billion small hydra heads

[unique zephyr]

max all keepsakes is the only achievement I haven't gotten yet

[solar maple]

drakons are brutal

[mossy zinc]

Second run in a couple weeks, easy new PB.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/817687126006431795/Hades_1376.png?width=697&height=392

[solar maple]

special build demeter. huh

[mossy zinc]

Sure. I always start my runs with the Eternal Rose.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/630312677855461377/774519226211762206/772250944590839808.gif

Doom still did a good bit of work.

[honest kernel]

nice

I hot hera up to hades but my dmg was miserable

no duo, only one pom in cast

[edgy arrow]

i love that you went CoL Nyaanyaa

take that meta

CoL speedrun ftw

[mossy zinc]

Malphon meta is whatever the Queen of Malphon does. 👸🏽

[true fable]

i think one of the first things you ever said to me on this server

when i was a young white name

was not to run curse of longing

[edgy arrow]

that doesn’t sound like Nyaanyaa

haven’t you seen her tier list

[solar maple]

maybe I should get a name color lol

there. I'm green now

[celest grail]

late reply, but easiest was probably eris rail, and hardest was poseidon sword until i tried out nemesis

[mossy zinc]

Nemesis DPS sucks.

[bright mango]

Nyaanyaa you are a ginormous aphrodite simp

[wanton plover]

kekw

[mossy zinc]

Lady Aphrodite said she loves me.

https://tenor.com/view/sailor-moon-venus-bored-anime-gif-15711916

[mossy zinc]

I think I've always said the problem with Curse of Longing isn't Curse of Longing, it's Merciful End.

[vital grove]

CoL could use a buff.

Maybe if the damage scaled up instead of down for a bit, like Doom hits 3 times before expiring

[shy plinth]

I just don't think it's designed for high heat

It's a priv status duo

[vital grove]

Priv status is fine on like Doom/Weak + Hangover Chiron

[shy plinth]

Ehhhh

You still want constant additional damage uptime in tartarus

Family favorite is 5% extra damage from room 1

[vital grove]

Yeah but chances are you'll find ares or aphro quick enough after starting hangover

The small extra damage from FF that early doesn't matter much

You're still taking the same number of hits per kill

[solemn pulsar]

what are you putting aphro on, dash?

oh doom OR weak, gotcha

[vital grove]

I like the doom build on higher heat

I guess you could take curse of vengeance and do the weak hangover build too

[mossy zinc]

Curse of Longing is good for high heat. It doesn't need a buff.

[solemn pulsar]

how long does it take for the primary + additional 50% strength dooms to proc

[mossy zinc]

1.1 seconds.

[mossy zinc]

I'd actually say it's more reasonable for Demeter Aspect than Merciful End. Heartbreak Flourish does excellent damage on its own. Divine Flourish does poor damage.

You can combo Heartbreak Flourish with Lightning Strike, Curse of Agony, Divine Strike, or even Deadly Strike and still do good damage and unlock some good Duo Boons.

Divine Flourish only really works with Curse of Agony for Merciful End, and it doesn't do good damage until you have ME because Divine Flourish damage is poor.

Point is:

You should start with the Eternal Rose.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/630312677855461377/774519226211762206/772250944590839808.gif

[solemn pulsar]

always

on hera

What are the potential EM4 adds that hades can summon? Is it just: sneak, doomstone, butterfly ball, megagorgon, stomper?

[mossy zinc]

Soul Catcher and Skull-Crusher, too.

[solemn pulsar]

...

[mossy zinc]

No. Not Bouldy.

[gaunt fiber]

Aooooooooh!

[bronze viper]

Aoh?

How do I steal that emoji, it's adorable

[gaunt fiber]

[bronze viper]

:goodest_boy:

NOOOO I have to be nitrous

The swift hand of Capitalism strikes me down

[gaunt fiber]

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah unfortunately

[bronze viper]

That was... impulsive. I'll chalk that up to a quarantine purchase.

[gaunt fiber]

it's my fault

[bronze viper]

@gaunt fiber did you see my Eldritch abomination of a build for 50 Hestia? Lol, I can pretty easily add CP2 for 51, I'll do that this weekend and aim for a victory screen that makes sense

[gaunt fiber]

Lmao nope, where can I see that?

[bronze viper]

victory-boasting

[gaunt fiber]

Oh sad build

no special on Hazard Bomb

[edgy arrow]

obviously needed athena on special

ez merciful end

pro hestia build

[gaunt fiber]

It works

it's just not Hestia anymore

Ares attack is not the worse

[bronze viper]

It wasn't, no

The doom popped around the same time my next reload was up anyway

[gaunt fiber]

Yes I thought so

[bronze viper]

So it's still probably better than Tempest Strike lmao

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah

[edgy arrow]

a high bar

[gaunt fiber]

tempest strike would be like 30%

Here you have 50

[edgy arrow]

when you put it like that it does sound not quite as bad

same as common heartbreak strike

oh i you went shadow presence

i’m not totally sure what the play is for hestia there

[bronze viper]

I wanted to sell it to restore my Shackle in the Asphodel-Elysium well, but I didn't get it in my offerings, so I switched to something that would give me damage... which the next best thing was my level 2 Skull Earring.

Oh I have no idea how to play Hestia optimally lol. Hestia is Bestia therefore I won.

[edgy arrow]

oh neither do i

i always thought shadow was the way to go, and fiery was just a speedrunning thing to save time in tartarus

[bronze viper]

My bossing is pretty unclean so I think I'll stick to Shadow for a boost there

[edgy arrow]

but Hadesprof’s wr used fiery

so now idk

that makes sense

so’s mine tbh

[bronze viper]

I've come to terms with the fact that my win rate against Tisiphone is lower than the other furies lol. I think it's because her attacks are so telegraphed. How do I not get hit

It would be rude not to

[edgy arrow]

i’m currently on team “alecto is the hardest” but i seem to change my mind semi regularly

[bronze viper]

I got the timing down to damage her during her very fast circle phase

So that's less scary now

[edgy arrow]

it’s mostly the buzzsaws for me

they’re mostly avoidable but when they’re not they’re scary

[bronze viper]

Lmao that's fair. I die to those... all the time. Why not dash into them. They're so inviting

[edgy arrow]

it’s true

friendly buzzsaws

[bright mango]

Meg

I don’t mind alecto that much

[mossy zinc]

I like Alecto. She's kind and nice and lovable.

[edgy arrow]

i used to find meg hardest

[mossy zinc]

She's always so happy to see me.

[edgy arrow]

honestly i don’t find them that much different in difficulty

i can see the argument for any of them

yeah Alecto is a great friend for sure

[mossy zinc]

FO2 EM Meg with 1 dash. No ty.

[edgy arrow]

she has friendly nicknames like “trash god” and stuff

[gaunt fiber]

I love Alecto, especially with charged skewer. She just tries to catch me but end up getting skewered to death.

[wintry berry]

I find meg spin AoE size somehow difficult to estimate, but I know it's big

[mossy zinc]

The math for her whip radius is easy.

actual_whip_radius = whip_radius_you_think_she_has * 2

That's from the game's code.

[edgy arrow]

checks out

one of my favourite meg strats is be to like “imma stand just outside of range when she spins, like a pro” and then stand just inside range

[mossy zinc]

Last time, she hit me while I was still in Zag's room.

[sullen minnow]

Only reason I check the lounge most days

Gotta have a work/life balance after all

its a shame Thanatos kinda one-timed me?? rude

[solemn pulsar]

Do you always go see him after a run?

Meg you can see on your way back so it’s easy for a quick sesh

Than you gotta go out of your way

[sullen minnow]

ohhhhh I thought they spawned in the lounge when it was funsie time

I have to just go check over there every time? How...... very like him

[solemn pulsar]

You gotta work for than

[main wasp]

ok, H32, chaos shield

forgot what keepsake to pick

need advice

Demeter?

[mossy zinc]

I assume Chaos Aspect. Chaos Shield is just the name of the shield in general. Thunder Flourish and Heartbreak Flourish are both very effective. Thunder Flourish favors spreading the Special from far while Heartbreak Flourish favors shotgunning single targets from up close.

[true fable]

ares special can also be quite effective

both curse of longing and merciful end can work quite well on chaos shield

[main wasp]

hmmm

I havn't done an Ares start in ages

[mossy zinc]

Frost Flourish for easy Chill stacks works, but you won't be doing much damage unless you pick up Killing Freeze also.

[true fable]

dio special can also be pretty good

but you probably dont need it until like 45+

[main wasp]

flourish's were the specials right

[halcyon flame]

ares special can be very powerful

[true fable]

yeah

[main wasp]

I'll start with ares and switch to Zeus if I die

[halcyon flame]

i mean i got a ~20s heroes kill with it so it's definitely stronk

i didn't even have merciful end or curse of longing

[true fable]

ares strikes a nice middle ground between the bossing capability of aphro special and the room clear of zeus special

[halcyon flame]

how exactly is aphro special on chaos good for bossing?

[unique zephyr]

Is Aphrodite or artemis attack better on zag bow?

[true fable]

both work

[unique zephyr]

I use Aphrodite

[true fable]

usually people go hunter dash + aphro attack or arty attack + passion dash

but both work

[halcyon flame]

if you go with artemis you can go for heart rend + empty inside

[mossy zinc]

High single-target damage when shotgunning, easy access to Smoldering Air, Weak adds even more survivability.

[halcyon flame]

passion dash can also mean you don't have to get empty inside and goes well with triple/point-blank/twin(?)

smoldering air... you make a good point

[unique zephyr]

Wait, passion dash is good?

[true fable]

it applies weak

which you need for heart rend

[unique zephyr]

I do need to learn to not rely on divine dash as much, I can dodge without it but not well

[true fable]

either that or you run aphro attack and have to pick up deadly flourish or true shot

since hunter dash doesnt activate heart rend

[honest kernel]

Passion Dash is also decent damage. First pom is also +16 damage

Nothing to sneeze at

[mossy zinc]

Passion Dash is good for applying Weak. The damage is still reasonable, too. It's no Tidal Dash for DPS, of course.

[true fable]

pom scaling is silly

80% on first pom

like

what

[halcyon flame]

those diminishing returns though 😔

[true fable]

all poms have diminishing returns

which is why you want to look at first few to see which are more "value"

for poms

[halcyon flame]

except for pressure points thus artemis is superior end of discussion

[true fable]

tidal dash notably has very stupid pom scaling still

[unique zephyr]

Don’t calls and casts scale best with poms?

From what I’ve seen in general

I like pomming Athena’s call

[true fable]

well poms in those are pretty valuable

[unique zephyr]

Not sure if that’s good though

[true fable]

athena call pom scaling got nerfed a litte bit ago

but its not a terrible idea

[unique zephyr]

It used to be more?

[true fable]

most boons its 60%

[unique zephyr]

How much more lol

Actually what’s the percent of Athena call scaling

[honest kernel]

Athena call used to not have diminishing returns at a certain point

It was silly

[mossy zinc]

+1 damage when it means you need 1 fewer hit to kill an enemy > +100 damage when it means you need the same number of hits. That's all that matters, ultimately. Poms are good or bad based on your build, options, etc.

[halcyon flame]

what is up with glacial glare's pom scaling

[true fable]

athena call used to get like 0.6s on first pom

and then 0.42 on second

[halcyon flame]

it's always +1s you tell me that isn't the stygian soul dream

[true fable]

now its like 1/3 of that

glacial glare is a notable exception to the 60% rule

[honest kernel]

Always +1 second on glacial glare

Yeah

[mossy zinc]

That applies to all boons. Pom bonus decays only up to a minimum bonus.

[halcyon flame]

it's a shame crystal beam is still fairly weak despite the pom scaling

[true fable]

it was just more noticeable with athena call

like i think it just reached 0.3s and then like

[honest kernel]

^

[true fable]

... stayed there

[honest kernel]

On the third pom

Yeah

[main wasp]

I made a huge mistake

[mossy zinc]

I think it's always like the 3rd-5th pom. At least the ones I tested were all in that range.

[main wasp]

I'm 50% slow at furies

[mossy zinc]

Well, that's doable.

Dash and Bull-Rush are unaffected by that.

Rely on those for movement.

[main wasp]

it's alecto assisted by tis

oh well

hmmm

Alecto's Aoe can hit you through that

lesson learned

[honest kernel]

does someone else feel like loading casts into hera is a bit bugged? 🤔

often I press the button,the animation plays and the cast count goes down but no actual cast comes out when i shoot

I have to retry again until it works in those cases

[tidal flame]

I feel that but with Beowulf.
Though I think sometimes the game eats your inputs if you press them too fast.
I rebind my cast to LB to make sure my inputs are more deliberate. Basically pretend I'm playing a weird Hestia.

[mossy zinc]

Perhaps, you are canceling the Cast loading with your Attack.

You can't load casts anymore when charging your Attack. That used to work, but they patched it out.

@tidal flame where are you, and who is FoxHope?

[main wasp]

breaching rush, dread flight or explosive return, chaos ass

pect

[tidal flame]

I'm a Mudkip now.

[main wasp]

wait, would explosive return trigger special effeccts?

[tidal flame]

Yeah it's a bummer, actually. Could have been a cool mechanics.

[tidal flame]

Don't think so.

[main wasp]

oh Meg has a special dialogue if you go over the heat bar too much

[wanton plover]

yea the game has a lot of special conditional dialogue like that

its kinda awesome

[mossy zinc]

She does. Explosive Return and Breaching Rush are both pretty good. I'd probably take Explosive Return.

[main wasp]

thunder flourish start

alright

2nd room Demeter attack, this is gona be a good run

[true fable]

when did they patch that out? that worked for me pretty recently

explosive return is incredible

[main wasp]

ok since when the flying chain hands can dead angle you

[honest kernel]

I see I guess im plinking loading with attacking

and its too fast for the game

[mossy zinc]

Can't find it anymore in #hades-patch-notes. Maybe it was a temporary thing in the test branch that I remember.

[unique zephyr]

FO2 dad is hard even on low heat using stubborn defiance to practice :/ . Need to get good at dodging.

[main wasp]

alright, passed Tartarus

[unique zephyr]

also, I thought I had good DPS until then for some reason

[main wasp]

ok now what do I do with the keepsake

this feels weird when I don't have a scaling one

[mossy zinc]

Owl Pendant in Asphodel, get Divine Dash and DDs.

m assuming you're using Stubborn Defiance, yes?

[main wasp]

aye

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, do that then.

[main wasp]

Excalibur weapon

Smoldering Air does wonders with Aphro call

[mossy zinc]

Same strat regardless of your aspect. Unless you've already used the Owl Pendant in Tartarus.

[unique zephyr]

do I need a duo boon to maximize damage with zag bow?

[main wasp]

I had zeus sake in Tart

[unique zephyr]

just aphro attack doesn't cut it vs dad it seems

[main wasp]

constant stun feels great

[mossy zinc]

@unique zephyr you'll want Heart Rend for more DPS and maybe Smoldering Air.

[sullen minnow]

tbh zag bows damage feels less about duos and more about chaos/hammers to me

but heart rend is a default rec for anything involving crits

[unique zephyr]

What call goes well with Smoldering Air?

[sullen minnow]

zooooooooooos

also dio

[main wasp]

must purge boon, either Heartbreaker strike, smoldering air, thunder florish

[sullen minnow]

also aphro as a weirdchamp defensive pick

[mossy zinc]

Dionysus' Aid is optimal. But any Call is good.

[sullen minnow]

makes her high damage call into a rapid recharge get out of jail free card in bossfights

[main wasp]

I'm purging Smoldering

heck with it

[mossy zinc]

Smoldering Air is one of the very best boons in the game. Why would you sell that?

[main wasp]

other options are Thunder Flourish or Heartbreaker strike

maybe I should sell Thunder

[mossy zinc]

Get rid of Thunder Flourish. That does practically nothing on Excalibur.

[sullen minnow]

what weapon?

excal? oh hell thunder flourish absolutely

Excal is an A-button weapon

not much a b-button one

[main wasp]

it's good for shutting down the 2 damage absorbtions

[sullen minnow]

oof, that’s a tough spot you’ve put yourself in there

[main wasp]

I need zeus cast

[mossy zinc]

What Call do you have?

[sullen minnow]

DC2 and excal is a fatass Dr Mario pill to swallow

[main wasp]

Aphro call

[mossy zinc]

Hmmm. Sell Smoldering Air.

[main wasp]

too late

[mossy zinc]

Oh well. Can work out anyway.

[main wasp]

I'll invoke zeus by sheer willpower for his cast

[mossy zinc]

DC2 is not really a meta pick on Excalibur.

You'd take pretty much everything else before DC2.

But it's definitely very doable at 32, assuming that's what you're doing.

[sullen minnow]

yeah I dont want to be cruel but you’ve got a peanut butter and wasabi sandwich there for yourself brosef

[main wasp]

I would give up this run but my call charges every 5 seconds

got hermes call buff too

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, just see where it goes. It's good practice either way.

[main wasp]

if I don't mess up I can perma stun hades

[sullen minnow]

honestly as weird as that combo is aphro + smouldering is actually pretty practically useful. Just not as a damage source

it’s a great bandaid if you make a mistake and are about to eat a huge boss attack

[main wasp]

no divine dash from Ath

can I get an F lads

[sullen minnow]

always have that ace in your sleeve to get you out of a tight spot

[mossy zinc]

Nah, Charm adds a whole lot of damage. Just no damage in Hades phase 2.

[sullen minnow]

tru, charm does indeed do good auxiliary damage. none directly, but plenty indirectly perhaps

[mossy zinc]

A Chariot can take out an entire enemy wave for you in one charge.

[sullen minnow]

lol thats lovely

[main wasp]

HAMMER

[sullen minnow]

I haven’t played with that combo much in regular rooms

[main wasp]

CMON CURSED SLASH

[sullen minnow]

#justarthurthings

[mossy zinc]

Art hurt things?

[main wasp]

ok double edge is good

[mossy zinc]

Best hammer you can get on Excalibur.

[main wasp]

meme beam?

do I go for it

[mossy zinc]

Might as well. Can clear some DC2 for you.

[sullen minnow]

Boy howdy is there a joke here I’m not going to reach for 🤣🤣😈

[main wasp]

wait it can shut down DC

alright first time H32 Lernie

[unique zephyr]

It seems Dio's call is more useful against bosses than regular rooms unless I'm using it wrong

since the radius feels a bit small but not sure

[sullen minnow]

it is a bit small

but that’s the nice thing about extreme burst DPS on command

is it’s kind of nice anywhere

[mossy zinc]

Dionysus' Aid is the best DPS call anywhere.

[sullen minnow]

ayuppppp

[main wasp]

wait, is there such thing as status resistance in the game

I'm 100% sure Lernie stays charmed less than 5 seconds

[sullen minnow]

nnnn.......no?

bosses stay charmed less

thats just a them thing

[main wasp]

crap

I miscalculated and headbutted his headbutt

[unique zephyr]

How long do bosses stay charmed anyway compared to normal enemies?

like what is the modifier for bosses

[main wasp]

a random guess would be 40% less

Lernie was charmed about for 3 seconds

[sullen minnow]

Long enough for you to GTFO and not much else

Still much better than eating an attack tho

[gaunt fiber]

Charm good

My runs are basically Aphrodite's call showcase

Clears Elysium nicely

[main wasp]

very first boon

Cursed slash

time to win

[gaunt fiber]

You just have to charm the right enemy and watch them kill they brothers

What were the choices?

[main wasp]

I didn't pick yet but

Dash nova, double edge, cursed slash

[gaunt fiber]

Rip

[main wasp]

I feel like picking Cursed

[gaunt fiber]

Aspect?

[main wasp]

Excalibur

[gaunt fiber]

It's good

[main wasp]

aye

[sullen minnow]

yeah cursed excal actually works lol

you slash is so wide

[gaunt fiber]

You'd be happier with breaching slash Shadow Slash and double edge but it's alright

[main wasp]

I'm gonna try crit Excalibur

[sullen minnow]

I liked it. lean into the defensive, area control nature of the aspect

[shy plinth]

Wait why not double edge

Isn't double edge +140% base damage to arthur dash strikes

[sullen minnow]

also wait

[mossy zinc]

Double Edge best hammer.

[sullen minnow]

someone explain to me how dedge isn’t 200% base dash attack damage?

[gaunt fiber]

I don't think it's the best on Arthur

Watching Peach

[sullen minnow]

if your dash attack strikes twice, how do you end up with less than 100%+100%?

[shy plinth]

Well it's plus in this game

[gaunt fiber]

Still really good ofc

[shy plinth]

Dash attack base is 1 and you end up with 2

Which is plus 1

[sullen minnow]

do both hits not proc at 100% base damage value?

[shy plinth]

(Dash attack+20%)*2

[sullen minnow]

ignoring boons and such of course

[shy plinth]

So it totals 240%

But you started at 100%

240%-100%=+140%

[sullen minnow]

ahhhhhhh, ok

140% increase

I misread you

[mossy zinc]

No, it's double base damage and +20% bonus damage.

The +20% damage isn't base damage.

[shy plinth]

Oh ok

[sullen minnow]

yeah I gotcha now

[shy plinth]

But yeah it's... a lot

And arthur hits for big numbers

So doubling big number good

[sullen minnow]

I thought you were implying it was only 140% total

that makes much more sense

[unique zephyr]

Dionysus's duos seem very good now, I've been sleeping on them

[mossy zinc]

Double hits is also better than just double base damage.

[sullen minnow]

Dio has a great support kit in general

and lovely duos all around

[shy plinth]

Well his tier 2s are kind of... inconsistent

[unique zephyr]

yeah the attack and flourish are just situational

[shy plinth]

He also has a lot of stinky support boons

Looking at you peer pressure and after party

[mossy zinc]

Lord Dionysus has some very strong boons. Hangover + Bad Influence is one of the best combos in the game.

[sullen minnow]

rip peer pressure

[unique zephyr]

Is positive outlook good or bad with SD and LC4

[sullen minnow]

also make strong drink do something to LC4 cmoooon

[unique zephyr]

if there is nothing else good I mean

[sullen minnow]

I love positive outlook for SD/LC4

[shy plinth]

Positive outlook is good yeah

[mossy zinc]

Positive Outloook is decent.

[gaunt fiber]

Well I'm biased since I play Guan Yu but it's irrelevant

[sullen minnow]

less damage is more ehealth

which is what you have least of at that point

[unique zephyr]

I haven't had a chance to ever pick up Dio's legendary, is it good?