I lost my 50 heat nem to FO2 dad đŚ
#h1-high-heat-strategies
solar maple
unique zephyr
I can succeed fine with FO2 on low heat
well, kinda fine
but taking hits matter a lot more at 32
unique zephyr
I practice with SD but yeah
dire steppe
"SDs"
unique zephyr
FO2 dad is rough
dire steppe
sounds like a luxure
unique zephyr
...she gives you an extra one that goes away after one time if you get one of her SD boons while you don't have SD
so it's optimal to purposefully lose your SD before getting athena boon sometimes
edgy arrow
yeah thatâs technically a DD not an SD
since itâs one use and restores 50% not 30%
edgy arrow
it heals like a DD yeah
unique zephyr
ok it makes more sense to call it a DD then lol
does patty affect it
out of curiosity
or is it 50% even with touch of styx
well, patty and charon well touch of styx
bronze viper
I've only done it on Chiron, Hestia and Chaos, and not at particularly high heat. HL1 EM4 CP1 FO2
dire steppe
fo4 em2 is harder than fo2 em4
lucid night
FO4?
dire steppe
can you imagine the sheer frequency of head slams
dire steppe
if itâs additive... fo4 would mean 5x faster
dire steppe
Speeder chariots more like teleporter chariots at that pace
unique zephyr
What if they had teleporter as their second perk
dire steppe
âIf you donât have breaching cross, alt+f4â
shy plinth
Ew
unique zephyr
can you imagine the sheer frequency of head slams
Imagining this is hysterical
shy plinth
The true merciful end is when you get to die
unique zephyr
I needed this to relax thank you
dire steppe
LOL
i think lightning rod would be meta
trying to actually attack will get you killed so
dire steppe
you know maybe with arthur you could wait it out
2 hour clear with like stygian dio cast and lightning rod
greater consecration start
unique zephyr
if itâs additive... fo4 would mean 5x faster
Wouldnât it be 2 x faster?
So double speed
solar maple
I miss typed
unique zephyr
Wait is it 1.8 or 1.6
solar maple
you have it right
unique zephyr
Oh ok I thought I was going crazy lmao (or tired)
solar maple
I just hit 3 instead of 4
unique zephyr
Oh youâre right it is 1.8
Now I get it
Thatâs scary fast though
Youâd be lucky to even get to lernie
solar maple
Snow burst would be the best boon in the game
no change then?
oh just saw you already said that
dire steppe
Oh youâre right it is 1.8
Are you sure its not 1, 1/0.8, 1/0.6
mossy zinc
@unique zephyr you rename Profile1_Temp.sav to Profile2.sav. You're replacing the permanent save in profile 2 with your backed up temp save from profile 1.
dire steppe
Itâs additive, it even says +20% on the pact
But that could also be -20% to internal cool downs
Will need an expert opinion
shy plinth
My expert opinion is that your new nickname makes me contemplate a lot of my own life choices
dire steppe
you know iâm right
shy plinth
I didn't say you weren't
vital grove
Zag bow is just good not Zag bow
edgy arrow
yeah but its the underworld
we don't have the sun
only way to keep warm is to give Theseus a chariot
gaunt fiber
Yes
honest kernel
I still think its so wierd that heat is a thing the chars comment on
is 50 heat like sauna temperature
spice lava
When you go to sauna you can see Tailesque's spirit appear
neat sonnet
The moment you start a run at 61, you see him over your shoulder
vital grove
Rumor has it when Baj tried 63 heat, his computer melted from the inside just as he was about to finish the run.
edgy arrow
if someone who isn't Tail does 61 he'll prolly invent 65 heat just to make sure they're properly barrel-rolled
honest kernel
Why am I getting all the pings when I decide to finally sleep
honest kernel
No, I got ping'ed here earlier by RidiculousHat
As well as by others in other channels
waxen cave
how strong is lucifer in high heats
waxen cave
everything is eris but worse tbh
bright mango
At high heat there are better weapons then eris
waxen cave
rama?
honest kernel
whats the effective difference between lucy rail and zag rail tbh
both are shoot fast many projectiles
waxen cave
i think lucifers strongest build is artemis + special
bright mango
Lucy takes longer to shoot but fires faster
waxen cave
but thats reliant on triple bomb
honest kernel
I personally find lucy special super underwhelming
bright mango
Triple bomb is one of the best hammers on lucy
honest kernel
I see
edgy arrow
triple bomb is like the flurry jab of lucy
honest kernel
guess I gotta try lucy
bright mango
A fun lucy build is low tolerance
Itâs one of my favorite builds in the game
But triple bomb is extremely juicy
wintry berry
It would be great to launch 2 special balls at the same time, without any hammer
waxen relic
Cluster Hazard Bomb 
quartz mantle
If only
vital grove
That's called Cerberus
pseudo kernel
That's called Cerberus
yeah true
light stag
Another on the pile of "Had I done 1 thing differently" stories
Miscounted the rooms in the second tunnel, it was a two sack so I didn't reset my SD
The reward was a centaur heart, I bought another from the shop so I didn't go completely naked but yeah
Timer ran out Hades was at a spit worth of life
spice lava
Timer ran out on my last pb but that didn't stop me 
light stag
I mean that wouldn't have stopped me
Had I reset my SD
The timer ran out because I was using Zeus shield and was mostly trying hit him with the blitz while it was following me
spice lava
I would have died if I had messed up the SD + Patrocle, 1m04 overestimate felt infinite at 50 Heat 
light stag
and it mostly worked he didn't hit me alot
I actually had an extra SD from Athena but I lost it with the Champions because the timer also ran out there
I don't know how I survived that fight
spice lava
You were already out of time at the end of Elysium? Damn
light stag
I took a trial in Tartarus
I shouldn't have
and Zeus can be a little slow
I thought it would be too slow for the 32 try but it turns out it wasn't so slow
My first try with it I set down to TD1 and HL3 and I had I think something like 12 minutes when I went to the Champions
spice lava
Trials are generally done with TD2, risky at TD3
solar maple
zeus can go fast but you have to be very good at it
spice lava
It's ok, everyone has obstacles to overcome when it comes to do high heat
Yours is currently speed
light stag
and with the right boons fights are faster that with fists which I was running before
the problem is that the Blitz is unwieldy and doesn't do anything most of the time
solar maple
zeus is the hardest aspect in the game to play well imo
controlling that special is very tricky
bronze viper
I intended to start a project to learn KBM controls just for Zeus aspect
solar maple
it is very strong though, so rewarding
light stag
alot of time it is down to luck
bronze viper
The unwieldiness might be controller related
spice lava
Except Baj, I don't even know another master of Zeus aspect
light stag
Where it will go, where it will stop etc.
solar maple
time is down to luck, but with good mechanics you can save a ton of time
bronze viper
Yeah all of that is deterministic on KBM
solar maple
so you can build a bad luck buffer
light stag
it is unwieldy on m&k also
light stag
I don't know if autoaim messes with its direction
bronze viper
Well, it does for sure at least on controller lol. When you press special in a direction it is arbitrary where it decides to stop. Unless it's like hardness of press or something? Doesn't seem like it though
solar maple
it goes a set distance
light stag
You can't control where is stops either way that's not a controller thing
solar maple
^^
light stag
the only thing you can do is command it to follow you back
solar maple
kbm just helps control the angle better
light stag
and then you can make enemies chase you while the blitz is chasing you
maybe
buy on controller you have full 360 degrees of direction control
spice lava
I guess there are some strats like changing position to have an ennemy on the way when the blitz disc comes back
vital grove
You bounce it back and forth while blocking or dashing
solar maple
a big decision point I mess up with it a lot is whether I want to send the shield to the other side of the room so I don't have to move around as much
vital grove
And attack when you can
solar maple
or to keep it by me for more damage up close
vital grove
Zeus shield without the shield is worse Zag shield
solar maple
either can be correct depending on the situation and I mess it up quite often
honest kernel
The shield special will always be a set distance. You can change the thrown direction, And you can recall it at any time. At any time. And it isn't an option that slows you down or interrupts you. You should be recalling it often. Get close to enemies, throw the special. Dash over them and recall the special, or knock enemies into the path of the special with your attack and bullrush.
The special itself is linear. It's when you throw/recall it, and what you do with the rest of the shield's kit that makes it good
That, and the disgusting damage output
solemn pulsar
shield special stopping at a fixed distance carried my max heat charon clear
since charon stands in place for a while
sullen minnow
To contribute what I can, something that helped me get zeus shield was realizing that the shieldâs main weakness was its inability to change direction to engage another target (short of the recall, which is useful but slow-ish. Good and bad). What that made me understand, and change about my play, was that I needed to be the change-direction mechanism to help my shield do its job of rapidly engaging and re-engaging foes.
Which is a lot of words to say that, just like baj said, you have maximum control of your shield and its DPS output when you are able to constantly alter its direction by catching and re-throwing it. Playing with the shield much closer to my chest, catching and rethrowing it constantly to change its direction towards a new target or re-engage the same one, was a huge boost for my understanding of one way Zeus shield likes to play
bronze viper
Yeah I'm really enjoying Zeus. I'll probably try getting this to be consistent for me at 45 then try pushing 50. It's like a bow, but circular
bronze viper
Lol, I was only being partially sarcastic with that. At high heat, most of the bows end up playing quite close up but they still have the option to pewpew from range.
Zeus feels a lot like that
honest kernel
Can be, yeah
shy gulch
yeah zeus is really fun
i think i need to relearn how to use it a bit for high heat tho
light stag
So ahh, how do I upload screenshots here?
So I had thunder flourish on the special, thunder dash, Zeus's call, double strike, high voltage, sea storm, cold fusion, and Splitting bolt
basically all I did was dash, use call and use the Blitz disk which also sent bolts because of Sea Storm
light stag
He took my acorn but I don't think he ever managed to damage me
Finally
after it be at least 2 weeks
I beat 32
Once I put on Zeus it took me only 6 tries
Could've made it on the 3rd if had reset the SD
honest kernel
oh my lord you did Tempest Flourish
light stag
You think it is bad on Zeus?
next wyvern
give me back my innocence
honest kernel
It's weird
honest kernel
Often outdone by just putting zeus on the special
next wyvern
Why would you want to push enemies out of your Zeus shield tho
light stag
tempest + Sea storm = better
honest kernel
Here's an even better combo
Tempest strike and Zeus special
Or Flood Shot and Zeus special, really
light stag
- it had propel them into lava or barriers
honest kernel
You just proc Sea Storm with your regular attacks and bullrush
No need for tempest strike lol
light stag
when it is returning it pushes enemies towards
next wyvern
I mean it meant you needs a duo boon
i usually just try to get Zeus legendary and focus fully on that so eh
Also not using Poseidon call
honest kernel
A frickin' common zeus special and a pom does more then the duo. Not mentionning Double Strike
Let alone an epic zeus special, that has a base 45 damage
next wyvern
Doubles strike is love
Double strike is life
honest kernel
And you don't need to settle for Poseidon's middling %-based damage boost, and awkwardness. You can just proc Sea Storm with your regular attack and bullrush anyways
So put it on the Cast
light stag
when I got the Poseidon special I didn't know I could Zeus
honest kernel
It's actually pretty good base damage
next wyvern
%boost is questionable
light stag
it one of first rooms
next wyvern
oh really?
light stag
Like I didn't plan any of this
honest kernel
30 base damage each 0.3 seconds is nothing to scoff at
That's a little over sword dash attacks
next wyvern
ah
light stag
I mean after I got lighting dash I started aiming for Sea Storm
honest kernel
But, general rule of thumb, Poseidon special is just too awkward and mediocre until you get the duo. Then it becomes ... on par with a Zeus special
light stag
The bad thing is that in practice it is not so easy to knock enemies into walls
honest kernel
???
You have the best weapon for it
No need for Poseidon, you have the regular attack and the bullrush to help with that
light stag
maybe on controller it is easier with the movement
yeah I guess
does sea storm give a bolt with the shield attack?
honest kernel
I'm saying I don't like Poseidon special because I've tried it. I've made it to Hades on a 60+ heat attempt with a forced Poseidon Special
And yes
Since the regular attack and the bullrush have innate knockback, they proc sea storm
Same with the sword special
Dash-attacks don't
At high heat, you'll bullrush often.
To stay safe
light stag
Yeah, that's why I don't like relying on the shielding - it commits you to the bull rush
next wyvern
whut
honest kernel
And that is why I rarely bullrush in anyheat speedruns
But sometimes, you kinda need to block stuff
or you die
light stag
thinking on which weapons Tempest Flourish would be good
honest kernel
Spoilers : none
next wyvern
what hammer you take on Zeus shield?
light stag
Sword already has knockback. vanila shield - special too slow and the knockback is too little
next wyvern
Like the usual Zeus Zeus build
honest kernel
But generally, Charged Shot > Explosive Return > Pulverizing Blow > Sudden Rush > everything else
light stag
how does TF work with the Chiron bow?
next wyvern
ferocious guard is bad?
light stag
which direction does it knockback?
rose beacon
i thought the best combo was aspect of lucifer and the things that made attack inflict doom, the one that made it take longer, and the one that stacked
honest kernel
which direction does it knockback?
It knockbacks in the opposite direction the arrows hit
But I say it might be best on it
But honestly, due to the internal cooldowns, it might not even be that good lol
light stag
but there are 8 of them coming from different directions
light stag
So which direction would they knock back to?
honest kernel
Depends on where you special. Generally, they get pushed back, or they get pushed back and back in
But, as I said earlier, in the opposite direction of the arrows
light stag
Curse of Pain on Lucifer, Divine Flourish, Merciful End- drop an orb near the enemy - the pulse will activate doom continually
rose beacon
yeah
honest kernel
Oh you're gonna take a while before you get there
Also unreliable unless you get Triple Bomb, or are an absolute god at make sure the bombs don't detonate ever, and that the enemies stay in range of said bombs
Or you wait until you get athena dash like every other merciful end build ever
light stag
Tempest Flourish is good on fists - one of the easier ways to knock back into walls with Poseidon
rose beacon
i suck with bombs, i usually try to shoot them into a crowd and get them to kill things
honest kernel
Yeah, that wallslam better kill stuff or you just pushed enemies away from your melee range lol
The big thing is, all the things you could do on tempest flourish that aren't awkward or limited by internal cooldowns, are often outdone by the attack, or even the dash. Sure, the dash doesn't unlock Sea Storm, but it sure as heck doesn't need it, it does so much damage with a pom or two in it lol
solemn pulsar
tempest flourish good on guan yu if you can't get aphro/artemis
or on beowulf to trigger mirage
honest kernel
First one is a dire situation, the other is literally as a placeholder for a duo because you'll want your other core boons for something else lol
next wyvern
So Ferocious Guard isn't that worth it on most shields right?
honest kernel
It's just ok
Generally, other hammers will do a better job
Beo doesn't mind it that much
next wyvern
The damage boost too small?
honest kernel
Yeah
next wyvern
i see
honest kernel
+20% global damage is neat. Same for the movement speed
But for a hammer ?
That could be Charged Shot, Sudden Rush ?
Or whatever else you need for the aspect
It's a big opportunity cost
next wyvern
i usually don't get Chargeshot because it felt kinda awkward for me and feel like using a cheat bow
honest kernel
That's why it's ok, sometimes you get Dread Flight and Breaching Rush or whatever
lol
next wyvern
Wait really?
honest kernel
Small charge or long charge, it's always 80 base damage
next wyvern
Ah
honest kernel
And you even get a minimum range to booth
next wyvern
i see now
honest kernel
Dashing in with a quick Charged Shot is a totally legit strat
The downside is that you lose out on the bullrush itself. It is a bit of a hit on your defense
And one I try to avoid at the super high heats. I'm talking 50+
But otherwise ? Go nuts it's too much damage to ignore
sullen minnow
Baj no empowering flight for zeus?
Itâs one of my favs đ am I missing something?
kindred sluice
Died on Hades again... of ail the wretches to spawn while I have Chiron he chooses Archers. 
bronze viper
Really? Archers are dope with Chiron. You can attack from behind pillars
shy plinth
I had charged shot doom the other day, was dope
Damage now and then more damage later
daring hedge
I'm not a zeus shield expert but afaik empowering flight only gets activated upon return of the special, instead of all the hits it deals while out
So it's not as amazing as you'd hope
kindred sluice
Really? Archers are dope with Chiron. You can attack from behind pillars
Yeah but I already had to fight teleporting archers in Elysium, plus I have FO2 on so the fight was already a pain in itself
sullen minnow
I'm not a zeus shield expert but afaik empowering flight only gets activated upo...
Awwwww biscuits. Didnât know that. Thanks
kindred sluice
Really thought this one would be the run, oh well. 
bronze viper
That's fair. Just saying from your phrasing, there could have been worse. Chariots are a nightmare for Chiron if you don't have the damage output to get through their armor
kindred sluice
Yeah, I suppose that's true.
halcyon flame
I'm not a zeus shield expert but afaik empowering flight only gets activated upo...
it should be renamed "empowering return" in that case
sullen minnow
thats a real bummer. I thought that hammer was my bae
daring hedge
If I had to guess, it's probably because the hammer is following the same rules as non-zeus shields where you need your special to return before you can attack anyway
bronze viper
If I'm forcing ME Zeus aspect, which should I aim to get Doom onto, attack or special? I could see either
halcyon flame
i feel like that depends?
doom flourish does more damage i believe but divine flourish deflects and is safer to use
shy gulch
either work, basically
unique zephyr
I just maxed zeus shield
gonna try it out
who here has some experience with zeus shield?
unique zephyr
when baj answers can he or someone ping me lol
shy plinth
@unique zephyr the correct answer is Baj but also I did post a run relatively recently if you want to see someone much worse play the weapon https://t.co/XpusUhhwsz
mossy zinc
Miss, we need a new challenge
We'll have a new challenge this month, don't worry. 
unique zephyr
<@!266732686838595606> the correct answer is Baj but also I did post a run relat...
I'll take a look, thanks!
so far Zeus shield is fun
honest kernel
Ye
shy plinth
I played a talos run the other day and forgot how fun that weapon is
It's worse than demeter like... objectively
But it's fun!
pseudo girder
^
pseudo girder
It doesn't have Demeter's absolute chunky damage
pseudo kernel
yeah
demeter can deal up to 2000 damage with artemis
you just have to get lucky with the crits
and your boons
light stag
One good thing about Talos is that the magnet does 20 DMG and the upper hits teice
unique zephyr
I need to get better at hitting demeter's special
often I whiff the charged special lol
light stag
So you clear hearts
I also often whiff it
It may be a little awkward to execute
The dash upper is especially akward
Because you can't press dash and special together to execute like dash attack
You have to press dash and special after that
mossy zinc
98% of the time at high heat, you dash-cancel the Special immediately after procing the magnet pull. You don't actually do the Uppercut.
pseudo kernel
Why do you dash
you dash because some enemies are really fast and can attack you in between the pull and uppercut
and the dash cancels the upppercut and moves you out of the way
unique zephyr
<@!266732686838595606> the correct answer is Baj but also I did post a run relat...
Watching now, why no damage control?
light stag
OK, so it is time for me to uninstall and never play the game again
unique zephyr
What happened
light stag
I've given it enough time
I beat 32
So there are things in my life I should focus on
unique zephyr
Thatâs valid
dire steppe
It's worse than demeter like... objectively
i swear weâve had this conversation at least 3 times in the last day
unique zephyr
So I think Zeus shield can handle DC2 fine, let me know if thatâs wrong
dire steppe
baj how long do you think it would take you to do 57 heat (64 - ap2 - ri4), should eliminate a lot of resetting
light stag
But the main attack is not too slow either
mossy zinc
<@311477984886521856> could you elaborate?
Magnet pull > Upper doesn't combo. The pull doesn't apply enough hitstun, so enemies can act between the pull and the Uppercut and potentially attack you. The Uppercut also leaves you very vulnerable for a lot of time because it has a lot of recovery. You can cancel the very end of the recovery, but there are too many frames that just lock you into the animation.
If you do a Special without dash-canceling before the uppercut, and a Wave-Maker shoots a projectile at you, you're not gonna recover in time to i-frame the wave or get out of the way.
The pull itself has super fast startup and can be immediately canceled, though. So you can press Special > Dash immediately, and if you do it right, it will practically look like you're just dashing while enemies are pulled to the origin of your Dash. You'll just see a purple flash for a very brief moment before the Dash.
If you're too fast, you can actually cancel the startup of the pull before the pull is active and just get a purple flash, a Dash, and no pull or damage. But the timing is very easy with practice.
bright mango
@gaunt fiber You should tell everyone about your Ap1 attempts đ
gaunt fiber
AP rigged
bright mango
100 %
bronze viper
I was busy this morning, I couldn't watch. @gaunt fiber, did we do it?
gaunt fiber
We died to dad
bronze viper
Oh, what's the new pact?
bright mango
And it was hilarious(sorry astaos it was)
gaunt fiber
Max JS CP AP1
solemn pulsar
i honestly think you could take a point of DC and not hurt too bad
clear it with attacks/casts
gaunt fiber
DC bad me don't want
solemn pulsar
just from watching your play
bronze viper
Since the Charged Skewer will typically hit first DC1 is very poo
bright mango
We got Charged skewer crossed out and then deadly flourish crossed out 4 times in a row(all with Ap1 btw)
gaunt fiber
Yeah it was a good moment
bronze viper
lmao
bright mango
The amount of lmao's in chat
wintry berry
I did another attempt with Arthur at 50 heat. First room cursed sword with AP2, only to die at Elysium end boss.
bright mango
f
wintry berry
Cursed sword is not so bad, I can take some hits and recover
but I still fight against my slow swings
shy plinth
Watching now, why no damage control?
Could have, just ran my default pact
shy plinth
i swear weâve had this conversation at least 3 times in the last day
Lol yes, I blame the speedrunning disc
dire steppe
hey did you know demeter is better but less fun than talos
mossy zinc
I don't know about less fun, but it is stronger.
frank void
hey did you know demeter is better but less fun than talos
I prefer Talos myself, but TBH I enjoy all of the Malphon aspects
dire steppe
the most factual nickname yet
shy plinth
the most factual nickname yet
Btw requesting "beo is just achilles and hera's kid"
dire steppe
LOL
plush scaffold
If you made it to heroes on first try this is still a great achievment
neat sonnet
divine protection the shop before meg oMEGalul
try 2 let's go
wow I unga bunga died
forgot 50 hp is just.. 0
bronze viper
It's an acorn charge every 20 seconds. So approximates 1-3 acorn charges depending on the frequency of the hits
I wouldn't take it over like Athena's Aid, Divine Dash, or DDs, but I'd take over anything else.
Also wtf who gets Divine Protection in Tartarus lmao
bronze viper
Oh lmao I didn't see that. Fresh file, Divine Protection is like, a DD every 20 seconds
OP
dire steppe
50 hp on fresh file isnt that bad cause its hl0
So its the same as having 10000000000 hp
gaunt fiber
So I watched it again
It's charged skewer x2 into deadly flourish x4 crossed out
in a row
That was some luck
bright mango
Lmao
gaunt fiber
I don't regret anything
gaunt fiber
Well if you give me deadly flourish and charged skewer
I should get a win at some point
If I don't stay at 30 hp the whole run I mean
shy plinth
If you wanted health you should have picked a different weapon my friend
gaunt fiber
I don't want that much health
but 30 max hp vs Lernie is one mistake then you die
I like to have like 2/3 hits before dying
since Lernie is lava + projectiles + red circles + lernie lava
gaunt fiber
Harder than heroes I tell you
wanton plover
yea timer is quite the hecker
solemn pulsar
Counterpoint: you only ever get to heroes with a good build because you were already checked by lernie
Youâve had to fight lernie with a bad build lots of times
But never heroes
Or rarely
gaunt fiber
But never heroes
Nope, usually I fight heroes with nothing
but that was before I decided to reset a bit more to be fair
bright mango
Now he can normally get past the heroes whenever he gets to them
weak meadow
Any tips for getting used to FO2?
(I'm still working up to 32 heat, so pretty far from all ya'll's level, but I would like to get at least to 40 someday)
bright mango
Just play đ
weak meadow
haha, so same as DC
weak meadow
DC was screwing me up for a bit (mainly DC2) because things kept not dying when I expected them to.
I'm used to it now though.
Except when I'm using Hestia
novel finch
NO
bright mango
F
gaunt fiber
Is it Arthur cursed slash?
wintry berry
Yes
daring hedge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/816470209207468082/20210302184034_1.jpg sorry hadesprof
daring hedge
lol thanks, yeah i got pretty lucky with elysium spawns for the most part honestly; lots of armored splitters
sullen minnow
Jesus jones
daring hedge
and was surprised i could do this without twin or triple
bright mango
This is a massive gamer moment
neat sonnet
Tail thatâs outstanding
bright mango
You almost beat hadesprof time by A WHOLE MINUTE
solemn pulsar
Tail the GOAT
daring hedge
second phase dad was honestly being a total pain
might have been around 11:30 otherwise
but still, i'm happy with this
shy plinth
Tail beats current 50 heat world record by 49 seconds - "kinda scuffed ngl"
honest kernel
Par for the course at this point
bright mango
Tail beats current 50 heat world record by 49 seconds - "kinda scuffed ngl"
Lmao
solemn pulsar
Look you donât get to be that good without seeing each and every flaw in your play
spring kettle
That'[s why Tailesque feels ashamed of us whenever we got Zeus special Rama
bright mango
Now i feel really bad about my first 32 clear
DONâT WORRY TAIL IVE BECOME A BETTER PERSON
unique zephyr
Nice job, tail, this astounds me
unique zephyr
Just play đ
Can confirm, FO2 is getting way more manageable now
Just keep it on for most of your runs from now on, even low heat ones, things that donât normally kill you will at first
Like Lernie
And even the furies with SD and other heat
Not using benefits package to get further with FO2 enemies may be good to practice itâs what I do to practice, since benefits package (especially 2) is nasty with FO2
bright mango
He's a space fox
That makes me feel a bit better about myself
unique zephyr
Same here
sullen minnow
Taking bp off is a good point for fo2
bright mango
At 32 yes
sullen minnow
Your whole game sense needs rewiring is the problem. Everything is sped up fairly dramatically at that point
unique zephyr
I meant to practice it
sullen minnow
Yeah I meant for practice if FO2 hits you like a ton of bricks
bright mango
But at 40 its bothđ¤Ą
sullen minnow
You can throw it back on eventually
shy plinth
TBH I was expecting a bigger jump from FO1 to FO2 given how people talked about it in here but I found FO1 practice to be super relevant
And to translate pretty well
unique zephyr
I like EM3 and MM as other heats
shy plinth
FO1 was where enemies felt harder and FO2 was where bosses felt harder
unique zephyr
Iâm doing the same
sullen minnow
Itâs just an adjustment to your internal clock
sullen minnow
You compensate eventually, and youâre a better player for it
unique zephyr
1 then 2 could work
sullen minnow
Thatâs all
sometimes ill go down to 1 if Iâm trying to stack heat somewhere else
unique zephyr
If you donât mind easing in slower you could start with EM2 then EM3
sullen minnow
But FO2 is more than worth the heat imo if you can handle the extra reps
unique zephyr
Since EM3 and mini boss is much harder with FO2
But you do eventually have to get used to it, but EM3 may end your runs too early in early practice (since the mini boss will probably kill you a lot)
sullen minnow
FO2 is a choice, in that itâs extremely difficult heat, but itâs heat that you can theoretically account for and get away with using superior play
unique zephyr
Also, use SD
sullen minnow
Which means it can save you from having to choose other things that might be spooky sometimes
unique zephyr
Even with no lasting consequences it will make you play the bosses better
sullen minnow
Yeah honestly SD is good ankle weights too
sullen minnow
Makes you that much more cautious when LC4 inevitably comes around
Though I donât use SD all the time. I donât LC4 all the time either
unique zephyr
I should try non LC4 pacts to see where else to put heat
Weapons that can take damage control would be easier to make pacts with
But LC4 is 4 heat
And I didnât find SD to be that bad
FO2 lets you avoid icky heats like AP and RI much sooner I find
weak meadow
What I'm hearing is do lots of runs with FO2 + stubborn defiance to practice, and add more heat elsewhere as I get better.
unique zephyr
Yup
With some extreme measures and middle management to start with maybe to do it with your eventual pact
solar maple
yeah I would use EM3 in those as well
unique zephyr
But take advice of anyone else if it contradicts mine since Iâm not good yet
solar maple
you want to get used to those attack timings
sullen minnow
To use a tired cliche; If you want to be Goku, itâs probably a good idea to start training in 900x gravity sooner than later
unique zephyr
Except no physical effects đ
sullen minnow
Lol
solar maple
if you die before elysium you never get to practice FO2 EM3 bull
unique zephyr
Remember when Yamcha injured himself trying to train at 300 x gravity (this may have been filler?)
sullen minnow
It is 900x gravity after all
unique zephyr
And Lernie is much much harder on FO2
sullen minnow
Youâre not really meant to master it the first number of times
unique zephyr
Head slams
sullen minnow
Much lake the game itself
solar maple
my hell mode file, where I do all my 50+ heat runs has 6 beowulf clears
6
out of hundreds of runs
weak meadow
I don't generally die before Elysium with FO2 (depending on the rest of my pact, of course...) but my clear rate with FO2 is, well, not the best and I can only do it on a few weapons.
(but I'm also not using SD most of the time)
(though I guess that's about to change...)
unique zephyr
I take LC4 always so I use SD always now
sullen minnow
Donât burn yourself up
unique zephyr
I did SD practice before FO2 though
So definitely one thing at a time
I did a 32 heat clear with no FO2 myself before practicing (my only one)
So i have SD practice somewhat already
sullen minnow
SD is just cleaning up existing play. FO2 is rewiring and retiming the entire game over again
Divide learning those as you will
Both need each other
unique zephyr
Yeah trying to adjust to both at the exact same time can be even more frustrating than normal
Personally I might suggest making SD natural to you first but again Iâm not sure
Again take my stuff with a mountain of salt Iâm worse than pretty much everyone here lol
sullen minnow
One needs the other ultimately
unique zephyr
^^^^^^^^
unique zephyr
Yeah you eventually need to integrate them together
weak meadow
I think I am going to focus on FO2? I'll think more, but I'm also working on how fast I can clear the game (as well as ramping up heat) and FO2 makes a difference. But I do need to "clean up" a lot of my play...
sullen minnow
FO2 will make you clean it up because it will kill your ass dead for mistakes you used to get away with
shy plinth
FO2+SD in particular sends a very clear message
If you're used to just yolo facerolling bosses, you will die
sullen minnow
SD will take that general sense and shine it to a mirror because now you canât regenerate what youâve lost
shy plinth
I actually think SD makes rooms a lot easier
shy plinth
But FO2+SD will make you respect the bosses again
sullen minnow
At low heat
shy plinth
And then hard labor will make you fear them
unique zephyr
FO2 will make you fear asterius
Even without HL
At least it does for me
36 without hard labor is a lot to be fair
sullen minnow
FO2 EM3 specifically can be very tough without some kind of mobility assistance (Hermès or otherwise)
Even before HL as bacchus said
unique zephyr
Yes he does
bright mango
But it can be avoided
Stand near a wall and dash out of the way when heâs about to hit you
It works super well
sullen minnow
Yeah matador strategy is prolly best for FO2
shy gulch
that bull gets me all the time
sullen minnow
You can reliably guide him into pillars at FO1 I find but at 2 it gets tough
daring hedge
you can think you've set yourself up perfectly to avoid it and then
sullen minnow
He changes direction too fast
daring hedge
death
bright mango
Yeah matador strategy is prolly best for FO2
^^^
daring hedge
yeah his tracking is insane sometimes
honest kernel
Sometimes he even does donuts
sullen minnow
FO2 makes it a lot, lot worse
honest kernel
And that throws you off
daring hedge
oh yeah those are great too
sullen minnow
I switch between 0 and 2 and itâs night and day difference in how easy it is to fight him
bright mango
He moves like molasses
sullen minnow
FO0 I kite him into pillars like its nothing
bright mango
Srsly
sullen minnow
FO2 he jukes too quick and wont stay tracking on a consistent arc
shy gulch
i think i might mess up the timing of things even more with FO0, i cant even remember the last time i ran that
i almost always have at least FO1 on
bright mango
Wall strat is the best tbh
bright mango
i think i might mess up the timing of things even more with FO0, i cant even rem...
At fo2 there is no timing
Just outrun him
sullen minnow
at FO0 for some reason his slam box gets much much bigger if heâs not running exactly straight
So if you make him turn ever so gently as he runs he seems to be much more vulnerable
But good luck getting him to hold an arc at 2
unique zephyr
Keep in mind at high heat it isnât consistent where you die. Sometimes Tartarus, sometimes Lernie, sometimes Elysium, sometimes dad. It doesnât mean you arenât improving if you die earlier sometimes
Especially once you turn on benefits package
With certain benefits package combos you may even die before furies, I have
Donât be discouraged if you get far one run then die early another, you didnât get worse, you are improving
Just stuff I wish I had known to keep in mind learning
shy gulch
yeah sometimes u just run into armored witches in chamber 3 and die
and then u just accept your failures and move on
unique zephyr
Savior numbskulls with hestia
shy gulch
dont remind me
bright mango
yeah sometimes u just run into armored witches in chamber 3 and die
Totally never happened to me cries on the inside
shy gulch
i have memories of them from my 50 attempts w hestia
daring hedge
i love to say BP2 is almost free heat once you get used to it. and then i enter a chamber with speeder slugger greatshields, and JS is active
violet thistle
Iâm not at high heat yet (top heat is 15 with Rama), but Iâm glad to read all these. Thank you, @shy gulch.
bright mango
Youâll get there
shy gulch
lmao glad i could help
violet thistle
Nah, Iâm working up to 20, then yoloing. I want to squeeze as much juice out of this orange as I can. I may even go for the titles.
violet thistle
My highest heat with the shield is 7. Dark Thirst hates my shield.
weak meadow
Go yolo 32
100% didn't work for me xD
Meg smashed me. My friend made it to Asterius his first plunge, which was super exciting
bright mango
I made it to elysium my first try
Died to lernie a few times
And then made it
I did first try my 40 which I am super proud of
weak meadow
Niiiice. I think I'm going to practice SD and FO2 for a bit, as per advice, then when I have those under control give it another yolo
bright mango
Nice
neat sonnet
My highest had been bow 17, but my spear was 14 then I yoloâd 32 second try
Big rng bless
So imo yeah just jump on in once youâve hit your point
lucid night
Started trying for 32 a couple days ago after I finished my last 20 heat bounty. I haven't beat it yet, but made it to dad 4 times so far out of like 6 tries.
I think I'm close
bright mango
If you can make it to dad you can win
unique zephyr
Yeah if you can get to dad even once you are very close
My highest heat before 32 was 16 on all weapons
bronze viper
@daring hedge How much does CP1 JS1 affect Rama for zoomies? I've really been burning my biscuits trying to get sub 12, even at low heat. Then again, today is the first day I've actually attempted to vroom.
daring hedge
i actually think they're mostly not too bad. given you end up with some good hammers, CP1 can feel like a non-issue imo
JS1 though, can sometimes just create more waves I've found
which is just annoying and wastes time
bronze viper
Okay, cool, so I suck. That's fixable at least.
wanton plover
js increases number of waves ? or the amount of enemies in a wave? or does it vary per encounter
bronze viper
All 3
wanton plover
feelsbadman
daring hedge
yeah, it varies a lot
bronze viper
Not always at the same time lol. As you said, it varies
You won't get those juicy 2 armored wringer rooms on JS1+ though lmao
shy gulch
Okay, cool, so I suck. That's fixable at least.
lmfao, absolutely mood
edgy arrow
relatable content
shy plinth
After losing like seven 32s to Hades fight, I have realized two things: Patty is OP and it is important to actually do the Hades fight instead of facerolling damage buttons
bronze viper
Eventually as you get more comfortable and experienced you'll get a better feel for how hard you can unga bunga on Dad as a function of your health pool.
shy plinth
Well part of it is adjusting to FO2
And another part of it is recognizing just how high my damage output has to be to go full unga bunga
I had two merciful end demeter runs back to back with common curse of agony
The first run didn't have the DPS and died with phase 2 dad having 10% of his health left, the second one had hyper delivery and epic billow
(We got there on the second one)
vital grove
Respect yo dad
That's the gist of high heat hades
Cause if you don't, you just die
tall hedge
actually i can and will disrespect him at every opportunity
halcyon flame
he's just doing his job
humble kernel
what is EM1 changes of the last boss? died before I got to that point
solemn pulsar
EM1 only changes the first boss
humble kernel
oh right
solemn pulsar
2 the second, 3 the third, 4 the fourth
humble kernel
whoops
wide quest
ive come to the conclusion that i hate high heat with sword, spear, and fist
bright mango
I agree with sword and fist
Sword is a nightmare
Fist isnt that bad
And spear ezwins
bronze viper
Fist runs are in 2 categories for me. Runs with Long Knuckle, where I don't have to think, and runs where I don't, where I have to try real hard,
But otherwise I haven't run into any issues with Fist up to 40, they were some of the easiest for me I think. I haven't gone past that yet though
bronze viper
High heat sword is a war crime
unique zephyr
Which sword is your favorite pseudo
bronze viper
I guess as a side project I should get all the aspects I like playing to 45 to make sure there's a divide between the trash fires I dislike lol. Eventually I'll get around to 24x45 but I'm kind of riding the high of no longer having to play Sword "ever again"
solar maple
I like poseidon and nem pretty equally
I've gotten so close on 45 heat pos and 50 heat nem
still need to finish the job on both though
5 sacked on pos, and choked dad fight on nem đŚ
bronze viper
Yeah, 45 is rough, your odds of getting cheese/nut builds are cut dramatically.
bronze viper
Oh wow, yeah I guess for TD3 gamers the lines are different
bronze viper
Playing on RI2 makes going back feel like actual cheating lol
bronze viper
Everyone gets a taste of GY life in Tartarus lol
gaunt fiber
:)
bronze viper
Every time I try to dash-strike Skullcrusher miniboss or Dad phase 2 wave with Nemesis I feel like I lose an IQ point. I'm not sure why I keep thinking this is a thing you can do.
solar maple
I like athena cast + zeus attack for DC2 poseidon
you can cast -> dash attack cancle
and the attack hits first
bronze viper
Though my favorite combo to date is dash-strike Skullcrusher, Hyper Sprint sturdy prevents stun from the slam box, panic, dash away, get hit by the wave once, don't get stunned, and run into the wave again then die.
solar maple
then build LP
but yeah I really don't know how to play bosses with nem
I just go unga bunga and die
bronze viper
I am very bad with dash management on Nem without Rare+ Greatest Reflexes lol. Dash strike in twice, "oh god what do I do now Dad's starting a spin." accepts fate
shy plinth
Fist runs are in 2 categories for me. Runs with Long Knuckle, where I don't hav...
Did you type Long Knuckle instead of Merciful End by mistake
bronze viper
I gave up on Merciful End. Before I stopped playing last year I tried 32 gilgamesh and whiffed 4 runs in a row on ME.
My new high roll lord and Savior is Tidal Dash + Razor Shoals +/- Sea Storm
bronze viper
Also starting Lightning Strike on Fists feels way better to me than starting Curse of Agony.
solar maple
high heat ME 
halcyon flame
i have concluded that ME fists is overrated
solemn pulsar
I mean ME at high heat is awful
quartz mantle
Though my favorite combo to date is dash-strike Skullcrusher, Hyper Sprint sturd...
You joke but I died to that once
solemn pulsar
because it's so hard to get
and so awful prior
but ME fists is pretty much the best build you can have, both for DPS and survivability
bronze viper
You joke but I died to that once
I wish I only died to that once
solemn pulsar
unless you assemble some truly heinous zeus build
quartz mantle
Ok but Jolted damage
bronze viper
Zeus + Static Discharge and I already feel like my build is complete on Fists.
quartz mantle
Zeus attack on fists seems big strong
solar maple
ME with AP1 sounds miserable
quartz mantle
It's how I beat 32 heat on them but I'm also bad and it took me like 6 tries for some reason
solar maple
not doing it
solemn pulsar
zeus attack on fists is the next best build
solar maple
zeus attack is good enough
bronze viper
Yeah I never recommend 32. I haven't done the math obv but from gamefeel it feels pretty coinflippy to get even with double keepsake, RI0 AP0
quartz mantle
Zeus attack is like 2 boons
bronze viper
Also Zeus support boons are chef's kiss
solemn pulsar
the slower your'e clearing, the more damage you're taking + more deadline looms
quartz mantle
That's where hammers come in
quartz mantle
and things like Billowing Strength
solemn pulsar
ok now you're at 4 boons though
bronze viper
Zeus' Aid, Billowing Strength, Clouded Judgement, Lightning Reflexes are all crazy good
quartz mantle
Breaching Cross tho
solar maple
and obviously the signature move
solemn pulsar
love this argument
bronze viper
Yeah, I like Zeus because your "high rolls" are just single boons from other gods
solemn pulsar
all that's been listed are zeus boons
Zeus fists are viable because they have early damage
that's really it
bronze viper
Deadly Flourish, any Call, Heartbreak Flourish -> Smoldering Air
solemn pulsar
ME doesn't have good early damage
bronze viper
Lots of routes to nut
solemn pulsar
i mean yeah
ME hate is overrated is what i'm saying
zeus is the move for high heat due to the early damage
since high heat tart is pain
bronze viper
It's not just the early damage though, it's the fact that you have multiple solid avenues for a nut build that may be individually only like 75% as effective as ME but let's be honestly, no one has needed all of ME's effectiveness to win a run
You're facerolling at that point
You barely even play the game
true fable
zeus attack feels super hm
whats the word
dangerous?
theres no margin for error with zeus attack fists
bronze viper
What makes it uniquely dangerous over every other non Divine Strike
true fable
nothing
your choices are divine strike or lightning strike
or ME
i suppose you can just force athena dash
as an aside, what happened to all the hackers 63 heat players
seems like they all popped up for one week n left
halcyon flame
64 heat isn't even that hard
dire steppe
dont take js3 and hl5
dire steppe
hl4 lol
true fable
one dash fists baybee
edgy arrow
yeah lmao
dire steppe
wonder how possible 59 is (-HL5)
true fable
not very
solemn pulsar
64 heat coming soon :Tm:
true fable
^
solemn pulsar
â˘ď¸
dire steppe
whats the current ri4 record anyway
dire steppe
where do you get the 65th heat
true fable
mirrorless record is 50? iirc
solemn pulsar
58 is no TD
true fable
by tailesque
north dove
64 heat won't happen because the 63 heat gamers don't know hell mode exists
edgy arrow
but some whack chaos run thatâs 60+ minutes would be hilarious
edgy arrow
58 is no TD
oh yeah youâre right mb
solemn pulsar
64 heat won't happen because the 63 heat gamers don't know hell mode exists
Routeâs almost done, up to baj after that đ
north dove
I would do it again if I had free time đŚ
true fable
pain
solemn pulsar
Real life adds 5 heat tbh
north dove
the true hell mode
solemn pulsar
âPersonal liabilityâ has never rung more true
halcyon flame
ah yes, the "real life" condition
dire steppe
btw cgull how do you even make that route for 64 heat
wouldnt you need to beat the run up to a point
halcyon flame
the one that deletes your save if you die
dire steppe
like normally when you route you play thru the game right
so... in order to make the route at all you'd need to be a god gamer
solemn pulsar
Itâs still like 55
edgy arrow
it case it wasnât clear i know zilch about routing lol
solemn pulsar
But itâs savestates and routing so itâs easy
dire steppe
cgull is going to reveal that the route is actually for zag spear flurry jab
solemn pulsar
And I tested it on 64 and it still works for Tartarus
dire steppe
last minute twist
solemn pulsar
So no reason it wonât work past there
edgy arrow
nice
routing is cool, iâm just glad i donât have to do it
sounds like a lot of work