At what heat numbers does making TD3 become no longer entirely skill based
#h1-high-heat-strategies
rain sedge
I mean it's never entirely skill based
even at 40 heat, you can get 5 sacced, you can get no free rooms, and absolutely bad boons
it's just very unlikely you'll time out
I think as soon as RI + AP comes to play
that probability increases exponentially
solar maple
if you want 100% consistency you have to run td2 unless you go full speedrun mode
rain sedge
I think my mistake was that I was playing kinda safe
I had to play speedrun mode, like take all chaos gate kinda stuff, risk it
solar maple
You have to go very fast to handle 5 sack no free room td3 with ~40 heat
solar maple
you can do td3 32 100% I think
32 heat you don't really have to take any slow pacts
so with speedrun strats you can get very reliable sub 10 elysium exit
and 10 mins is enough for a 5 sack
however, anyone who is just trying to clear 32 heat
almost certainly can't clear it in half the time
so it's kind of irrelevant
trying to play with no chance of getting sacked is basically playing TD4
as in 3 mins per biome
so way harder, but still doable until very high heat
shy gulch
TD4 lmao
solar maple
I would not worry about it again -- 5 mins is enough time for a 3 sack, so don't worry about banking a ton of time
and getting a 2-3 sack is like 80+%
I don't know the exact odds
shy gulch
85% for 2-3 sack
solar maple
that sounds about right
solar maple
didn't stop my 45 heat poseidon sword from losing to it 😦
had enough time for 4 sack
but I got got
shy gulch
ownt
solar maple
so it happens bacchus
turns out td3 isn't free heat
but it's 3 heat, and usually worth it
rain sedge
cgull is racing soon
unique zephyr
Ah ok, then I'll continue learning to be faster
does TD3 make you take free rooms at the expense of your build or does it not change people's room choices that much on 32
right now I highly pick mid floor shops
even if I have no money
wintry berry
I always take mid shop even if I have no money
shy gulch
its just a habit for me at this point
even if im ok on time i always just like to keep some saved up
there are some situations where i'd skip midshop for a natural god i really need, but thats only in tart
solar maple
I skipped a good amount of shops in my 50+ beo runs
gaunt fiber
If I see an athena miniboss vs a shop
solar maple
because beo is very boon hungry
gaunt fiber
well that shop is skipped
solar maple
but yes, the default is definitely to take the shop, even with no gold
and yeah I would basically never skip elysium shop, unless I really need the boon for some reason
shy gulch
beowulf eats boons like no other weapon i stg
gaunt fiber
nom nom nom
bright mango
I was playing poseidon
solar maple
unique zephyr
Schlad you were right Hestia is much easier for practicing
practicing both FO2 and timer for me
neat sonnet
wanton plover
so safe
sullen minnow
Got a triple dash attack Zeus build going with Achilles and died trading last hit with dad for 32
🙃🙃🙃
solar maple
obviously just building for sea storm 🙂
solemn pulsar
sorry baj and i talked about it months ago before i knew you at all lmao
if the routing goes somewhat quickly we can do a rama one too
daring hedge
ohhh fair fair
also i wouldn't have actually been upset either way ofc lol
but that's neat
solemn pulsar
like i wanted to do this in december but the mods didn't support AP, and now they do
shy plinth
Nice job gull
shy plinth
@unique zephyr I'm looking at your run
Honestly I think you just get overwhelmed and panic in Elysium
Your first two biomes are totally fine and at a really good pace
But your elysium was 7 minutes
bright mango
Where is baccus run?
bright mango
Ok
Thx
@unique zephyr i noticed that you don’t really keep your distance while charging up
unique zephyr
But your elysium was 7 minutes
Yeah, I feel like I worry more about not dying
in elysium
than going fast
but I need to do both
bright mango
Keep positioning in mind while charging up
daring hedge
@bright mango btw: #h1-high-heat-strategies message
shy plinth
@unique zephyr I just feel like I can kinda feel the anxiety radiating in a few of these rooms, and it's pretty normal to be tense there
But your play was solid in the first two biomes, feels like you were just hyper aware of the timer and fretting about your pace in each room
One thing I will say is that you do a lot of regular walking instead of dashing to get through rooms
daring hedge
knowing the ins and outs of elysium enemy attack tendencies can be huge for feeling safer and going faster
shy plinth
Double dash on cooldown IMO
bright mango
Yeah just remember to keep your distance
shy plinth
Much faster
Like when you're in combat that's fine, but entering and leaving rooms, dash a lot
Saves you a bunch of time
unique zephyr
Ah I see, so it's all about knowing the attack patterns for elysium enemies?
daring hedge
for sure
unique zephyr
what are the best ways to deal with the flame chariots quickly
bright mango
Tag everyone in the room, sit back and charge, and wipe everyone out
unique zephyr
because letting them crash is slow
daring hedge
find a barrier or gap and dash across it continuously
unique zephyr
should I keep at it with Rama? Hestia is easier but less fun
solar maple
if you dash though a wall they crash faster
unique zephyr
for me
daring hedge
up to you
solar maple
or you can shoot them if they aren't too close
daring hedge
if you have more fun with rama go for it
unique zephyr
I'll see about which weapons
although I'll need help tweaking the pact for some
I haven't tried fists yet
up close is scary
unique zephyr
if you dash though a wall they crash faster
so like phase through a pillar with my dash?
solar maple
pillars are a bit small
unique zephyr
but it's good to know to focus on Elysium and that the earlier rooms are mostly fine
solar maple
but any barrier will do
solar maple
you just want them to run into the wall while trying to chase you
unique zephyr
how long does it take for them to turn around
if I get behind them fast won't they turn around
and not hit the wall
solar maple
they don't turn that well
unique zephyr
...now that you mention it they do turn really slow
it just seems fast in the panic
and explosions
shy plinth
I mean moreso I would say from what I can see in Elysium, I see a few moments where like you have enemies on both sides of you so you spam special and dash and never use your attack
And just like run away
I totally get that vibe of "oh crap oh crap oh crap"
shy plinth
Yeah
I think controlling that instinct will help a lot
Because your gameplay is capable but you panic and stop doing damage
unique zephyr
so I should still focus on doing damage then? because I was in stay alive mode mentally
do elysium enemies move the fastest overall
compared to other enemies
shy plinth
I mean obv not dying is fine
It's good even
But you gotta do damage or else you're just deferring your death
I don't think elysium enemies move fastest, probably the slowest biome I think outside of lil chariots
unique zephyr
That's true, every moment they are alive is another opportunity to take damage
shy plinth
But they hit real hard
shy plinth
I mean if you get hit by an armored greatshield that's half your health bar
That's scary lol
solar maple
elysium enemies have the most unreactable attacks is the main challenge
shy plinth
Especially brightswords
solar maple
so you have to know their threat ranges in advance
solar maple
to get hit
you can't plan on watching for when the speeder spearman starts his jab
you have to know how long the spear is
unique zephyr
Oh ok
solar maple
and not be there
unique zephyr
my problem was I was trying to react
i didn't know it was straight up unreactable
or some things at least
solar maple
some of the attacks are straight up unreactable in elysium yeah
unique zephyr
I love how high heat forces me to learn the game
so assume I'm in danger in the threat range
solar maple
especially with FO/speeder BP
unique zephyr
So it's not that my reactions suck is that I shouldn't even try to react to them
got it
I thought it was the former lol
shy plinth
And also managing your emotional state will help you play better
It's easier said than done but any time you feel yourself panicking you can expect to just take more damage
That's usually when my runs suddenly end
unique zephyr
So it's more often when you're panicking then when you're overconfident?
that runs end?
obviously both are bad
shy plinth
It's gonna be personal man
There's no 100% clear answer here
But when you start thinking about how your run is going vs actually playing the run you will probably die
unique zephyr
Right, I'll reflect and be aware of my emotional s tate
shy plinth
And the difference in your play in elysium vs the first two acts was stark
unique zephyr
which is what I'm working on in life anyway
shy plinth
You left the lernie fight at like 7:50 I think?
Under 4 minutes per biome
That's a TD3 pace
unique zephyr
Yeah I felt like I was at a great pace
shy plinth
You were
unique zephyr
until Elysium
I wondered why the timer was so low
at hte heroes fight
But good to know it's not that the biome is much slower it's that I'm panicking
i'm glad you looked at it 🙂
shy plinth
Of course, thanks for posting it
unique zephyr
I wonder how I can see this in my own runs
shy plinth
unique zephyr
since I don't know what to look for
shy plinth
Elysium starts here
unique zephyr
in others runs
shy plinth
What's the first thing you do in the first room
unique zephyr
What's the first thing you do in the first room
Miss
special tag
then miss
in some random direction
shy plinth
You hide from the chariots lol
You walked in, said "oh crap chariots"
And spammed a button in safety
unique zephyr
...yup that's what happened, it's like you can read my mind better than me
that's my default reaction to chariots
I need to fix that
shy plinth
So take a look at your own elysium asking the question of "when did I panic"
And then watch what happens after you do
And it's not to be self-critical or whatever
Just to better understand your own reactions
Because if you know when the ship is tipping, you can learn how to right it faster
That's what speedrunners are really good at, when they miscalculate something they immediately fix it
unique zephyr
Right, being mindful of everything
my thoughts and what's going on
it'll help in life too as cheesy as it sounds lol
shy plinth
Nah it's true!
shy plinth
It's true
unique zephyr
Yup! I'm glad I have perceptive people analyzing! It's good to know it's not that my reactions need work in elysium so much as my mindset
shy plinth
If you do the second, the first will improve naturally
unique zephyr
fixing the mental issues does seem to improve physical
since I know as I learned the bosses in base game I got better
and calmer
like heat 0 will just feel natural and calm now because I know it
also full mirror but knowing it
hope I'm making sense lol
i'm reflecting and thinking
what should I do if I'm in an enemy's threat range
since I can't react a lot of the time
also the big chariots hitboxes seem weird?
in the front
shy plinth
So a lot of this is macro planning vs micro, and it just takes a lot of practice and reps and getting used to the patterns like Tail was saying
unique zephyr
what is the difference between macro and micro
shy plinth
If you scan the room and see big chariots and swordsmen, you know that your mission is to get behind the swordsmen and stay out of the way of getting run over
unique zephyr
so what should I do when a flame chariot is coming right at me
instead of running away
shy plinth
Macro is the strategy and micro is the execution
If I were to ask you how you would deal with louts and witches in Tart you'd be able to tell me how you would group them up and power shot
A lot of that is pretty natural and instinctive after enough reps
But I think in these elysium rooms you just haven't had as much practice on FO
unique zephyr
yeah I was gonna say it would be easier for me to show than tell in tartarus
shy plinth
When a lot of stuff that you're not used to happens fast your brain goes into fight or flight and you react
Exactly
So I'm not saying hey type out your game plan like this is an RTS
But just like... if you're asking the question of "what do I do if I'm standing in front of a spearman"
I think you can probs answer that one
unique zephyr
dash away and charge in recovery
shy plinth
If you're asking the question "how do I deal with a room full of spearmen and chariots" that takes practice and you'll see how other players react on the fly etc
Yeah like
If you're standing in front of the spear move out of the way lol
That's not a hard question, but figuring out how you ended up in front of a spearman repeatedly in the same room is worth looking at
unique zephyr
i remember dashing too close sometimes
getting up close when I shouldn't
more so because panic screwed my direction
I was just "go SOMEWHERE"
shy plinth
Because you're afraid of timer and gotta go fast so dash dash dash and then oh crap there's a spear get away dash dash dash
I know this vibe man
It's not just you
unique zephyr
i'm glad you can relate to some of this lol
I'm motivated to improve
and I like the challenge
shy plinth
I assure you that everyone has encountered these feelings while pushing heat
unique zephyr
It will be hard not to panic at EM3 asterius
FO2
he goes into hyperspace or something in his dash lmao
shy plinth
The answer is to keep doing it until it's normal
And I understand you can't get quite as many reps in
But the answer to all of this is to normalize the difficulty
unique zephyr
but I can make them more meaningful
shy plinth
And then your skills will shine through
shy plinth
Yes
unique zephyr
and a heat setting I put on all the time
shy plinth
If Asterius FO2 is an EVENT that you talk about and fear
Then you'll be like oh crap asterius ahhhhh gotta not die ahhhhh
unique zephyr
instead of just another obstacle
shy plinth
Yep
unique zephyr
like furies
shy plinth
Seems reasonable
unique zephyr
I know that eventually my ability to control boons will be limited lol
with RI and AP and what not
bronze viper
That's so far out
unique zephyr
that's true
bronze viper
Don't even worry about that
unique zephyr
i'll just use the tools I have now
bronze viper
Yep!
unique zephyr
whether it's forcing dash or zeus
i at least know how the god pool works
which helps me plan keepsakes and stuff
I'm still not sure if tooth or acorn is better for me in Elysium
or what does it depend on
bronze viper
Also, re: flamewheels, Tailesque mentioned it too, but the fastest and most unga bunga way to deal with Flamewheels is to find a barrier/pond that you can dash back and forth from, and just do that when the Flamewheels get close. It'll seem hit or miss at first but you'll find a rhythm that makes it so you never get hit and they always kill themselves
This is surprisingly easier on FO2 because they're way faster
shy plinth
Yeah once they flash just find a little wall and dash through it when they get close
They'll pop themselves
One of these lil guys
bronze viper
Otherwise, if you have a fast way to deal damage, you can dash once and shoot something back
This is also the easiest (but not only) ways to nully Chariots
Don't know why I said Greatshields lmao, that deserves it's own entire thought
bronze viper
I don't know what universe of physics their waves adhere to
It's not ours that's for sure
unique zephyr
So if I have like 10 seconds left after I finish the 4th tunnel in styx is that me being way too slow
if it's a 5 sac
is that still too slow
bronze viper
Are you TD2?
bronze viper
No, you aren't expected to be able to complete 4+ sack on TD3
unique zephyr
TD2 is no problem time wise
TD3 is what I'm working on
lol time to die then
lmao
bronze viper
It has an implicit fail rate of whatever the odds of 4+ sack are
edgy arrow
sometimes a 3 sack is a loss on TD3, depending on circumstances
4+ sack and run is dead usually
bronze viper
Until you get to very high heat, that's another good thing about TD2. Unless you're like, Chaos or Chiron, you should be able to complete 5 sacks even without taking every free room. Each run should be completable
unique zephyr
TD2 is no problem at all
bronze viper
It's 3 heat lmao
edgy arrow
there’s a 57% chance of a 2 sack, so you should get them most of the time anyway
solemn pulsar
2 is 54%
solemn pulsar
5 is like 3% ish maybe less
edgy arrow
yeah they drop off
bronze viper
At least for tonight, you are not perdable @solemn pulsar
solemn pulsar
the important thing is that it gets way more likely each time
solemn pulsar
like 3 sack is more likely than a 2 sack, once you've already missed the 2 sack
bronze viper
That's good to know
edgy arrow
yeah idk what the curve is exactly but it drops off sharply
bronze viper
Also it kind of confirms my gamefeel of 50 -> 25 -> 12.5 -> 12.5. Good to know that assumption is actually pessimistic
edgy arrow
i think the reason it’s better than that is because it rolls for the sack when you hit tunnel chamber 3 and then again when you hit tunnel chamber 4 if you miss it
or something
solemn pulsar
and then a 4 sack is more likely than a 3 sack if you missed the 3 sack
bronze viper
Yeah
edgy arrow
someone explained this all to me and then i forgot most of it lol
solemn pulsar
Myth: Styx Wings can be longer or shorter based on the enemies you get.
Result: Busted
Explanation:
Styx wings can be either 4 or 5 chambers long (including the final room). After 3 rooms, the end rooms (mini boss or combat + satyr sack) are added to the pool of eligible next rooms. This means you can simply roll the next room to be the miniboss or roll it to be a sack. Separately, for each room where the sack is an eligible next room, roll to see if the sack is forced. This forcing roll is the 25% chance I referenced in the last episode. That means that the second wing of Styx plays out like this:
- room 1
- room 2
- room 3
- roll for sack rng - 25% chance
- if succeed -> room 4 is sack
- if fail, roll for next room - 18% chance to get mini boss, 6% to get sack. 76% to get another small room - if room 4 was miniboss / combat chamber, wing is over
- if room 4 was a small room, then roll for sack rng - 25%
- if succeed -> room 5 is sack
- if fail, roll for next room - 75% to get miniboss, 25% to get sack
Confusing huh? Overall this should be about a 54.4% chance to get 2 sack. "2 sack mentality" plays have the same odds.
from ellomenop
and then in each tunnel the odds get higher after the 2nd one
bronze viper
Those are some words
solemn pulsar
i forget the numbers
bronze viper
I still have no idea how to do TD3 EM4. I haven't figured out how to kill superdad in less than 5 minutes, and that's with good damage
solar maple
but yeah if you look at retrash
he doesn't do it in sub 5 sometimes
that's why he runs td2
bronze viper
oh, because his game is broken and he can't turn EM4 off, makes sense
solar maple
obviously you get a free heat for trading td3 for em4
unique zephyr
Any tips for a faster sneak fight?
solar maple
absolutely free
bronze viper
Companion
solar maple
use meg
unique zephyr
I tend to miss with meg in FO2
bronze viper
The timing is weird
bronze viper
Yeah just play around with the timing
solar maple
with meg you want to do it just as the sneak reappears
bronze viper
I missed it the last 2 times I tried so I can't speak to that lol
rain sedge
@solemn pulsar so now the seeding mod supports AP? Is that version up?
solar maple
I tend to just go for the 1 cycle meg even if it has dc2
then use the meg animation to aim for popping dc before the meg hits
but that's a bit tough
so I mess up sometimes
then I look stupid
edgy arrow
that sounds hard lol
bronze viper
Some aspects don't care bout Sneak at all, but Rama is definitely not one of them
Hoo boy that fight is a pain
edgy arrow
i just get rid of the DC then meg after
bronze viper
Luckily I've been playing on TD2 so I can just brute force it
solar maple
yeah that's what sane people do lmao
unique zephyr
What companions are worth maxing other than meg
solar maple
I want my 1 second time save
solar maple
you can stick with meg if you want
edgy arrow
it’s mostly antos
unique zephyr
and I don't think I have any other use of ambrosia than companions
bronze viper
I've used them all, none of them are useless
solar maple
some people like antos
unique zephyr
i think
bronze viper
But I would prioritize keeping the Ambrosia to convert to blood
edgy arrow
maybe bouldy if you’re not running LC4 yet
solar maple
if you want to play call% you need dusa
unique zephyr
what is call%
edgy arrow
are you allowed to summon in call %
solar maple
yes
bronze viper
Dusa does some work against Lernie
solar maple
summons are basically just limited use calls imo
edgy arrow
oh i assumed you’d unbound summon lol
solar maple
theamatically
edgy arrow
that’s fair
unique zephyr
when I run out of bounties do I just get ambrosia from trading in gems
or rather the chain trade
solar maple
also it makes the first few chambers more bearable
bronze viper
Yeah, it's always worth to check the dealer between each run
unique zephyr
also, for those who have seen the video my boon selection is mostly fine right?
solemn pulsar
<@334853357871169536> so now the seeding mod supports AP? Is that version up?
not the seeding mod, the door prediction mod
ello is going to take a look at the seeding mod
unique zephyr
and keepsakes
bronze viper
the 15 key -> blood deal is chef kiss
solar maple
I don't know the optimal way to build rama so I can't say
unique zephyr
the 15 key -> blood deal is *chef kiss*
I don't think I've ever gotten that deal
solar maple
it didn't look too egregious though
unique zephyr
or if I do I don't remember
solemn pulsar
@rain sedge though honestly rn it seems that the seeding mod only has an issue with hammers not boons, so it might be a weird hammer issue that 's in the door predictor mod too
have to do some more testing
bronze viper
It's not particularly rare, just check every time you go home :3
10 nectar -> ambrosia is also solid
edgy arrow
my favourite is ambrosia -> 500 darkness
bronze viper
That's the late game one
edgy arrow
but that’s just ‘cause i want badges
bronze viper
When you're done with upgrades
edgy arrow
1000 runs in and i still check every time for it lol
bronze viper
Oh, also 100 gems -> diamond is great, diamonds are 0.5 blood
solar maple
yeah trading for the diamonds/blood/ambrosia is good
to max out your aspects
except for hestia
solar maple
keep that one at level 1 🙂
edgy arrow
smart
solar maple
if you don't know, tailesque did a lv 1 hestia 50 heat run
unique zephyr
well, I maxed it when I decided I wanted to do 32 heat
I saw a bit of that
baby hestia
solar maple
the madman
edgy arrow
if you don't know, tailesque did a lv 1 hestia 50 heat run
that was Tailesque tho
unique zephyr
btw I remember a reddit post Nyaanya made about 40+ and 50+ heat runs having people reset for the right hammer or epic core boon
is that still true
die over and over to reset the seed I mean
or is it not as seed reliant anymore
is it now 40 no, 50 maybe?
rain sedge
<@!203931754501767168> though honestly rn it seems that the seeding mod only has...
Pretty sure it has issues with boons too, but ill test again later
edgy arrow
some folks reset for a hammer/first boon
rain sedge
Thanks for raising this with elo :)
edgy arrow
particularly on AP2
solemn pulsar
Pretty sure it has issues with boons too, but ill test again later
the door predictor mod lifted the code from ello's and the boons are def good there, so i just need to test more
rain sedge
Hmm. I'll test and report to you tomorrow
unique zephyr
seems easier to get a good core boon than a good hammer
but I'm not sure how big the hammer pool is
solar maple
yeah it changes quite a bit per weapon and strategy
with beo I generally don't reset, but that's because I use very consistent strats
I briefly experimented with AP2 pom blossom start
edgy arrow
i don’t like resetting, but if i was grinding zag spear 50 i probably would
solar maple
and that has about 10 resets in c1 for every run you actually play
so I didn't do that for long haha
I did 1 real run with it
that might be the strat for like 58 heat though
rain sedge
Just seed at that point
rain sedge
People care too much about seeded or unseeded
edgy arrow
there’s no way 58 is practical on anything
solar maple
or just cast tbh
edgy arrow
is that better than charged flight on AP2 + everything else
solar maple
with pom blossom you can get a lv 3 cast pretty easilly
and that's pretty good damage
solar maple
then just rng into snow burst
bronze viper
I've spent 2 hours finding an AP2 seed before
edgy arrow
see flood flare, pom blossom start
solar maple
and you have a chance
edgy arrow
sounds kinda weird but you’re right, it might be the strat
bronze viper
Not time well spent. RIP to that meta, and good riddance
solar maple
I just don't see any other realistic way to scale up to enough damage to fight em4 with ap2
the first few poms are just too important
I've thought of all sorts of janky strats for high heat beo haha
that's half the fun tbh
edgy arrow
yeah EM4 is the probably
with practice and luck i could probably get out of elysium with nothing but shackle
edgy arrow
but then i’d just time out at EM4
solar maple
yeah that's what I was thinking too
charged shot can carry your damage for quite a while though
unique zephyr
Does retrash always run EM4?
solar maple
so it's not hopeless
yes he does
always
he's never turned it off iirc
since he unlocked it
that's how you get as good as he is at the fight I guess
edgy arrow
he’s good enough at it at this point it’s kind of optimal for him
no TD3 and EM4 is 1 extra heat and a lot more time leeway
solar maple
yeah he's far and away the best at that fight
he wins with some serious nonsense builds
that have no right to beat em4
rain sedge
I think he plays the game fundamentally differenty
edgy arrow
absolutely
rain sedge
you know when you just started
edgy arrow
pretty sure i couldn’t clear TD2 with some of his builds
rain sedge
and you play slow, in order to be safe?
and then you learn to go fast for TD3 and optimise for speed
retrash does the former more than the latter I think
whereas I always play optimising for speed
bronze viper
The former is also the way I prefer to play
It's also just a lot more chill
As chill as high heat can be
solar maple
oh wait I might have to do chaos shield speedruns this weekend
oh no
I need my #5 spot on the aotw times haha
edgy arrow
actually true
bronze viper
what’s a chaos shield speedrun
It's what people call it when you complete TD2
edgy arrow
yeah i watched that and i’m still not sure how it happened
edgy arrow
i’d be happy with a 7:04 asphodel exit tbh
solar maple
lol
astral swift
Does sure footing etc affect poison?
vital grove
I want to say yes
bronze viper
I want to say no... but I'm not sure
I don't think it does. I' m very good at getting hit by poison
vital grove
I seem to recall the damage stacking up slowly but I dunno
edgy arrow
i get hit by poison a lot and i’ve never noticed a difference
vital grove
Does HS affect it?
solar maple
pretty sure it doesn't
I don't think it counts as a trap
maybe the poison from the floor trap does? idk I never get hit by that one
vital grove
Oh, yeah, that thing I asked a while back about Patty heal
solar maple
what about it?
vital grove
It shows up without a special note if you have LC on
edgy arrow
oh i forgot about the poison floor trap
solar maple
odd
edgy arrow
yeah i rarely get hit by that either
vital grove
Like every other healing source has LC listed under it and how it affects it
solar maple
I've never taken it but I assume it doesn't work
vital grove
But Patty heal doesn't
vital grove
Oh noooo
edgy arrow
rip
vital grove
I took a Sisyphus heal by mistake once and was peeved
That's an order of magnitude worse
edgy arrow
yeah i took darkness once
was kinda funny
missing touch of styx dark would just feel bad tho
vital grove
And took a sandwich from Charon while buying something else
solar maple
wow I just survived an attack curse without losing SD once. Just don't get hit 🙂
always take the cast
it's never not worth it
edgy arrow
i agree
vital grove
Spawn 66% more enemies
edgy arrow
unless maybe the curse is slippery
bright called me out for taking slippery at 50
wanna call him a coward but he’s prolly right
solar maple
yeah that one isn't worth it
unless in c1
then believe
honestly it's better on even higher heat when you have shackle
then you can actually get away with it
edgy arrow
oh no don’t encourage me
i already lose too many runs to stacking chaos curses in elysium for no reason
i’m trying to stop
edgy arrow
how did you get all those with RI
solar maple
no this is just 50
edgy arrow
that’s genuinely impressive
solar maple
a meme run
edgy arrow
oh fair
solar maple
I'm not going to do 56+ with zeus haha
vital grove
I had a beautiful Beo run earlier
Went common flood shot into common rare crop
First two boons
edgy arrow
nice
edgy arrow
i would’ve prolly just yeeted all my rerolls for snow burst as soon as i saw demeter, but heroic cast shiny
solar maple
just jumped around off screen
edgy arrow
he’s gone
vital grove
Asp can be so annoying
bright mango
@unique zephyr i was watching your video and to hit both asterius and theseus with meg click up and then meg
cinder cave
what are the mechanics on vicious skewer?
do you get a global crit chance from it
and how long is it
bright mango
Is that the 400% armor bonus on special with spear?
cinder cave
+50% damage on special, 50 crit chance on recovery
or do you just get 50 crit chance on the return of spear?
bright mango
Yeah it kinda is
bright mango
It can be good if you’re trying to do a zag spear chain skewer build but other than that its not great
cinder cave
zag spear lmao :)
bright mango
Its fun with chain skewer imo
cinder cave
i made a hell mode save and i was always amazed at how slow my zag spear runs were
solar maple
what do I sell
cinder cave
on average
bright mango
I had a fun run earlier today with heroic pos special, seastorm, double strike, cold fusion, and splitting
It was epic
edgy arrow
sell deadly strike
bright mango
But legendary...
edgy arrow
zeus devotion build
bright mango
Oh it’s 50 heat
solar maple
honesty high voltage makes zeus cast work so much better
bright mango
Then sell high voltage
edgy arrow
zeus cast is bad on beo lol
solar maple
do I need to post my tier list again lol
it does bolts
like zeus call
but the targeting on it is terrible
edgy arrow
you did a beo casts tier list?
bright mango
I thought that it was chain lightning
solar maple
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778725540643340312/813097713146920998/Screen_Shot_2021-02-21_at_9.17.17_AM.png for infernal high heat runs
bright mango
Ya that looks right
cinder cave
hades is a completely clear and unambiguous game
edgy arrow
checks out
cinder cave
bright mango
I don’t love poseidon cast but I’m pretty sure it’s good
solar maple
poseidon is definitely the top, but not that far ahead of the next two
then athena is a bit worse than those
dem is a big drop off
bright mango
Is it because mirage shot?
solar maple
big aoe on pos mostly
solar maple
athena is still good enough though imo
edgy arrow
yeah you’re right the top 4 are all pretty good
solar maple
if I were to do mom pom resets I would keep any of those 4
bronze viper
phew, glad guan yu and excalibur are down.
bronze viper
Time to cheese the crap out of some Gilgamesh
solar maple
yeah exactly
solar maple
@edgy arrow do I 2 sack mentality for a zeus boon?
bronze viper
GY took 2 attempts, Excal took 2 attempts. Gilgamesh will take... more than that
cough
edgy arrow
<@!309651131213152258> do I 2 sack mentality for a zeus boon?
ofc
get that legendary
i believe
solar maple
I also have sea storm available
but I wouldn't be mad about that
sea storm beo sea storm beo
edgy arrow
yusyus
bronze viper
strimming some very low effort forced sea storm Gilgamesh 40 lol.
solar maple
and no snow burst
edgy arrow
at least you can die having stayed true to your principles
or zeus’ principles, at any rate
solar maple
no 2 sack
this game hates fun
on the other hand....
and I should have enough time on a 3 sack
true fable
i probably agree with that list
i do think aphro cast is a solid bit above hunter's/phalanx
but
true fable
youve gotten 4 sacked so many times this week man
😦
arty cast is fine imo
i like it for certain things
but it just kind of
idk
solar maple
I just want to win with sea storm zeus cast 50 heat beo
is that too much to ask?
ok probably
lmao
solar maple
HOLY LKDSJLFKDJS
I WO
WON
retrash moment
didn't lose acorn until phase 3
zeus cast going up the tier list boys
edgy arrow
holy crap
edgy arrow
congrats
solar maple
sea storm beo
edgy arrow
genuinely impressed rn
solar maple
losing my entire first health bar in 1 combo right at the start of phase 3 was scary
1-2 hits from death entire 2nd half of last phase
I thought I was so dead
edgy arrow
wait you ran acorn EM4
solar maple
if you only get hit by minibosses 1-2 times, acorn is better
edgy arrow
i just blindly followed the meta and switched to tooth
solar maple
and I tend to avoid or kill them pretty well
edgy arrow
i keep getting sneaks tho lol
solar maple
dad can literally do 100 damage in 1 hit
edgy arrow
idek what to do about them
solar maple
my strat for sneaks is to literally never leave the bottom right corner of the map
and just hold block until they come close
then burst them
it works pretty well
edgy arrow
which is not very effective
i've done a bit of that
i should probably do it more intentionally
solar maple
the bottom right strat works really well
and you "never" get cought out by cerby because you are always in the "safe" spot
pots also don't spawn all the way down there
and if you get pushed by a laser it sends you into the wall
instead of an instant death pot
solar maple
for all those reasons 90% of my time in the fight is in the little nook in the bottom right
edgy arrow
like, i die elsewhere but EM4 is such a crap shoot
edgy arrow
cool thanks I'll definitely try that
edgy arrow
lol seems obvious when you put it that way
solar maple
I don't really know why I do bottom right instead of any of the other corners
it's just comfy down there
edgy arrow
safer from cerbie ig
shy gulch
Poseidon call is SO nice
solar maple
I don't think I would have won without it
my favorite pos boon to pick up by a good margin
other than mirage obv
and the cast
but you know
high heat is so weirdly freeform and undefined
like 3 different keepsakes are called the "best" for em4 by different people
solar maple
I kind of get spearpoint if you have a million hp
but retrash takes it sometimes when he would die in like 5 hits
and I just don't get it
shy gulch
your first mistake is trying to comprehend retrash
solemn pulsar
Bc when he gets hit he knows he has 1.5 seconds of gamer time
solar maple
also @edgy arrow acorn is a bit of a highroll strat
because if you get good minibosses it's way better
edgy arrow
yeah i've heard that
shy gulch
b u t t e r f l y
b a l l
solar maple
I mean I kind of needed the highroll there
with no patty no DD zeus cast haha
honestly after that run I'm not sure zeus cast is really worse than dem cast
it's still way worse than athena
because you need like 3 T2s for it
but dem is pretty stinky
edgy arrow
dem's only redeeming feature is that it means dem is in your pool
solar maple
yeah
edgy arrow
nice for killing freeze as well ig
solar maple
other than the T2s zeus boons are pretty bad
but if you don't hit the t2s zeus cast is just so miserable
edgy arrow
i've actually never had it with T2s i think
i just avoid it after my first few experiences with it
solar maple
I was lucky enough to get 3 t2s by lernie
and at that point I could just about phase him
and this was mom pom start
so the damage was helped by that
bronze viper
Raid boss down
shy plinth
YUS
edgy arrow
nice one ledger
shy plinth
edgy arrow
man gilgamesh 40 gave me so much trouble i still haven't got back to it
edgy arrow
probably lol
bronze viper
Razor Shoals pretty much solo'd EM3 lol
shy plinth
Your statuses are a crap ton of damage tbh
bronze viper
Epic level 3
shy plinth
Imagine priv status here
edgy arrow
"ez privileged status"
bronze viper
It was pretty hard RR until I got +3 dashes. Then EZ RR
bronze viper
That's good for tonight. Only 7 left to go. Zagius, Poseidon, Zag spear, Achilles, Talos, Zag rail, and Lucifer
bronze viper
yeah
shy gulch
good luck!
heres hoping we both get there soon
i think i have just over half left, 13
bronze viper
Nice! I got rid of 3 today I thought were going to take a long time, but got all 3 in 2 attempts (GY, Arthur, and GIlga)
shy gulch
dang thats impressive
yeah i havent done those yet lol
im gonna do luci and then probably try to bang out the harder ones
shy gulch
lmao
the best advice one can give for this video game
GY was like the one i did last when doing 24x32 becuase i just did not want to do it at all
though i think i got quick + massive spin first try so like LUL
cheesed
bronze viper
I had Astaos watching my 40 GY. I got so lucky it would have been dishonor to my famiry name if I lost that run.
I mean, even if I'm trying (and succeeding) to cheese the hell out of my lesser favorite aspects, I am still learning a lot, I'm glad I'm doing this. I have mental bookmarks on several aspects to return to
And some, like Gilgamesh, can burn in a gigantic garbage fire. Can a garbage fire burn in a garbage fire?
shy gulch
yeah it'll just be a bigger garbage fire
bronze viper
Nice
shy gulch
i do enjoy branching out and trying to get good at every aspect
i think i might try to speedrun every aspect to some goal at some point
until i ragequit from like chiron or arthur or gilga LOL
bronze viper
I am so bad at speedrunning, it's actually impressive.
shy gulch
it feels so different from high heat to me
bronze viper
It's something I should probably learn before delving too hard into TD3 at 50+
Though by some miracle I managed to complete Chiron 51 with RI2 AP2 TD3 so I'll call that one an outlier
shy gulch
i dont know if you need to learn to speedrun but it might help
you got ppl like baj and tail who just casually did TD3 50+ before ever speedrunning anything rly
bronze viper
Hmm, yeah. The go fast unga bunga speedrun strats aren't exactly conducive to long heat runs lol
Though if I run out of projects, which is looking pretty impossible at the moment, I can always pick up speed running to decompress from 50+
shy gulch
thats basically what i ended up doing
bronze viper
I'm pretty impressed that I'm like 700 hours into a game and I still have a seemingly bottomless well of projects and things to explore
shy gulch
i was doing 45 all weapons a while ago, then got tilted from trying to do nemesis at 45 with crappy keybinds, and moved to speedrunning
oh for sure
this game has a LOT of ways to play it
and now ive come back to dabble in high heat after finishing a few projects in speed
bronze viper
Lmao, the 40 Nem I hit a couple of days back was one of the highlights of my Hades career. I was thrilled. I can't stand that aspect, and it's specially abled younger brother.
shy gulch
also ledger i gotta say i do not know how you did it
bronze viper
I remember when I played in EA I seeded for Double Edge, and I still couldn't even come remotely close to finishing a run with Nemesis. I didn't even make it to Elysium 95% of the time.
shy gulch
i did 40 chiron yesterday and it was the most painful thing ive ever done
i hate that weapon
bronze viper
Lol, it's so interesting to me that Chiron is so divisive. People either absolutely love it or think it's the worst aspect in the game.
shy gulch
i almost timed out on TD2 with a 2 sack
bronze viper
LOL
bronze viper
Okay well, yeah. There's room for improvement :3. Chiron is definitely one of the only 2 aspects I've timed out to on TD2, along with Chaos.
shy gulch
oh god chaos, i dont want to do that either
and yea theres room for improvement but like
i do not want to put in that effort LOL
i will simply leave chiron be for now
bronze viper
Zagius is the ultimate raid boss of my list, and I am saving it for last
I fully intend to high roll Tidal Dash Sea Storm on it as well
shy gulch
oh yeah zagius is going to be pain
im probably just gonna start athena dash
thats what i did for 32
spec into ME or DR as i see natural gods
and pray i get one of them lul
bronze viper
I found the Tidal Dash high roll to be a lot more consistent. Razor Shoals is pretty much all you need to cheese a valid run with TD2
bronze viper
It also helps that Zagius has dash striking as its primary damage ability, so it's not even that cheesy
Also forcing Tidal Dash a bunch is doing wonders at helping to wean me off of Divine Dash
Which is great for managing AP2 lol
shy gulch
yeah thats fair lol
i think ive gotten better at it overall but for some aspects i just loathe
i'm probably going to lean into it with zero guilt
shy plinth
Aww yee just got my 6th weapon to 32