They all have some ostensible benefit
#h1-high-heat-strategies
bronze viper
bright mango
oh
I just play
Thats never happened but
i guess maybe reset
For hermes I just take them
They normally come in elysium and I can sell them pretty quick
bronze viper
And sell asap?
quartz mantle
Take Hyper Sprint and never dash
bright mango
yeah
quartz mantle
🧠
bronze viper
Okay, cool. Yeah wasn't sure how strict you were being with "boonless"
quartz mantle
For the "Boonless" part of the high heat clears you need to not benefit from any boon you have to get right?
bright mango
Although my only problem playing boonless is hades
And I sell my boons before entering styx
bronze viper
That's a pretty decent chance of being impossible with Hermes though
Depending on aspect
So I guess you do your best?
bronze viper
Like, good luck not benefitting from a Hermes boon with Rama
bright mango
lol
I'm using hestia for the boonless
Its so much easier than rama
hestia bestia
wanton plover
yea i love that gun
unique zephyr
Boonless runs sound interesting
But also so hard
Same with mirrorless except I’d hate losing my mirror
bright mango
Overall for high heat I like rama
But boonless hestia bestia
I can't imagine a mirroless 32
I've done mirrorless before but not at 32
wanton plover
one dash no sd
shy gulch
mirrorless runs are wild
bright mango
^^^
bronze viper
It's not the worst with shields
bronze viper
I've only after I started playing again started the process of weaning myself off of Divine Dash lol
I was entirely reliant on it before
shy gulch
at this point i just take a dash im given LOL
bright mango
I probably dont need divine dash bcs I get hit with his spear thrusts the most
shy gulch
if i can get any athena boon that unlocks DDs, im happy
bright mango
I wish I had a save file at hades
bronze viper
That feels like a pretty grantable wish lmao
bright mango
pogs?
bronze viper
Just keep the save file open and copy pasta your temp profile when you enter the Hades room /done
bright mango
I only have 5 attempts in my boonless runs so looking at astaos 300 keeps me going
bright mango
Just keep the save file open and copy pasta your temp profile when you enter the...
switch gang
bronze viper
His perseverance is S-tier for sure
bronze viper
If I fail for 2 hours straight I have to de-salinate my bum pretty intensely
bright mango
same
wanton plover
bright mango
If I fail 2 runs in a row I get triggered
gaunt fiber
but yeah that's a lot of attempts
wintry berry
That was my life when doing 50 heat lucyy
neat sonnet
I mean, I think it goes beyond that but when you like the aspect as is it has to help
bronze viper
I lost a routine Hestia run at 20 heat yesterday smh. I don't even know what happened. I think I just got hit and died the good ol' fashion way
bronze viper
Was just speeding through grinding bounties
bright mango
i just need to practice the hades fight
neat sonnet
I definitely can’t imagine trying to grind any of the other spear aspects at this point in time
They just aren’t as fun to me
bronze viper
I meant the slow
neat sonnet
No animation slow though?
bright mango
oh
neat sonnet
So like
bronze viper
Don't quote me on that, I just remember that being clarified to me at some point but I never take Abyssal so shrug
bright mango
Each rank reduces foes' speed and damage by -6% while they have Cast Ammo in them.
at max thats 30%
neat sonnet
Now does that apppy to attack speed as well
bright mango
idk
But it will still help me
Boiling adds 75 damage to my attack
So I dont need it
neat sonnet
I guess yeah taking 2/3 damage is aight
bright mango
at HL5 thats pretty good
neat sonnet
And it’s definitely not giving you 1.3x damage to have Boiling
bronze viper
Not by the end of the run at least
Though arguable if you're on AP2 or boonless lol
bronze viper
With Shackle, Boiling Blood is 1.2x
neat sonnet
Guess it’s preference and if the problem for you is you can’t last long enough to kill Hades then you should give it a try Pengy
bronze viper
Which is still great
neat sonnet
I agree that boiling is great, I don’t know if I’d ever see use in it, but that’s because the damage is probably gonna kill me anyways on GY
It being the other option
bronze viper
I tried Abyssal on aspects with very close to 0 base damage like CHaos shield lol
neat sonnet
Hm, I guess if you’re already not getting much out of it, it can’t hurt?
Though Rama is the exact opposite ?
bronze viper
Though I stopped because Chaos appreciates every point of extra damage it can get
Rama multiplies BB value
neat sonnet
Yeah like
bronze viper
So yeah no real choice there
neat sonnet
You get so much out of it
It’s one thing to get bb on single target, but on a whole room is devastating
bronze viper
It actually multiplies it at a low exponent depending on the number of suffering enemies lol
neat sonnet
That’s strong to say the least
gaunt fiber
With Shackle, Boiling Blood is 1.2x
can you explain?
bronze viper
BB is 50%, Shackle is 100%, you have base 100%, so 50/250 = .2
Oh I'm dumb, it's .25
Even better lmao
50/200 = .25
neat sonnet
Remember when it affected rubble damage
bronze viper
Was pretty meme worthy on Dad
gaunt fiber
Nah, baby astaos was not born
waxen relic
i was a baby and not able to bring it to actual use
halcyon flame
rubble damage is the real mvp in styx
just destroy the pillars to kill everything in the room 
neat sonnet
I still remember when Meg was the end of the line
bronze viper
I started in Nighty Night. May/June-ish last year
Though I only started with heat stuff in Blood Price
waxen relic
i gave into doing 32 Heat on Chaosshield just shortly before 1.0 dropped
bronze viper
Lmao, I hadn't been able to do 20 on any aspect then I was recommended Chaos Shield, then did 32 and 40 in very few attempts. I then tried this with the other aspects I played and was sorely disappointed
I miss the starfish pattern, it was so fun. It definitely did not need to be nerfed nearly as much as it did.
neat sonnet
I think I knew about chaos shield being busted but I never actually used it in EA
bronze viper
The 5 shields emitted in a star pattern, ricocheted, and returned in very offset timings, which made Thunder Flourish phenomenal on it
Pretty sure they went further too but I could be wrong on that
The most busted part about it was that it was a shield, which isn't unique it to itself lol. The learning curve was shorter since aiming wasn't necessary so it was just very popular for beginners.
The old TD2 implementation was a massive brickwall to Chaos though. Elysium and bad Styxes were instant death sentences unless you had good free room/spawn RNG.
bronze viper
On Hestia? I guess depends on what you're struggling on lol
And if you have FO2 already or not
bright mango
I just die to the hades fight
No I dont have fo2 on
Maybe I shouldnt do em4
That might be rough
I just need to git gud at the game
bronze viper
"i just die to the hades fight"
"Should I take em4..."
😛
rain sedge
I swear to the lord
half of my elysium deaths are chariots and/or greatshields
sigh
bronze viper
I think Greatbows for me
It's hard to respect them while dealing with everything else
bronze viper
Greatshields are up there though. BP2 scurry
bright mango
half of my elysium deaths are chariots and/or greatshields
same 🙂
For me its all of my deaths not half
bronze viper
The game does track what got the killing blow on you in the admin chamber right?
I'm curious what actually kills me the most in Asphodel/Elysium. My tartarus results should be relatively meaningless because of intentional deaths for unseeded or bad AP2
rain sedge
I think cgull has a script that scrapes the run data
and made empirical guesses on probabilities of sac/than/story/etc
but I think he's busy practicing bear hunting today, so let's not bother him
bronze viper
Yeah I'm in no rush for this information lol, it's just for funsies anyway
rain sedge
look ronniethebear looks like a nice guy
true fable
hes a nice bear yeah
rain sedge
but I'm here with a cgull banner no questions asked
I'm sending my thought hacking to reduce his free room %
true fable
i cant support both so i will simply not watch 🙈
rain sedge
I'm literally DMing than right now to show up on all 3 of ronnie's runs
who else is playing?
true fable
kenorah vs duunko today
bronze viper
what time is this happening?
bronze viper
Lol, of course, no one here would ever dream of doing that
gaunt fiber
Ronnie is cool
gaunt fiber
And his sleep schedule is such a mess that I can watch him
true fable
like
my times are so much better out of tart with triple or twin
usually 1:30 or more on the clock vs 1 minute or less without
gaunt fiber
Well you have your answer
true fable
well
i want to know if im just doing something incorrectly with pb/perfect first hammer
bronze viper
Nope, none of them are multiplicative
Twin/Triple are
Also for zoomies in Tartarus Perfect isn't really great since most stuff dies with less than a power shot.
It's still imo the 2nd best hammer but not for Tartarus lol
dire steppe
explosive should be changed to base dmg
bronze viper
holy cow that would be sick, yes, that should absolutely happen
(but no seriously it's fine the way it is :3)
dire steppe
explosive zag bow with deadly strike would just murder
bronze viper
Bow already has the highest density of great hammers. Maybe tied with Rail?
bronze viper
Explosive Zag Bow with Deadly Strike already does murder. It wouldn't really murder that much more if it was multiplicative since crit already is
true fable
shield has a bunch of just very solid hammers
dire steppe
well, you’re looking at (100+300%+~70%)*crit
vs 170*4*crit
it’s like a +33% increase
daring hedge
i want to know if im just doing something incorrectly with pb/perfect first hamm...
point blank and perfect are def fine up through elysium where you get your second hammer I think
rain sedge
rail hammers arent that good in high heat
delta chamber and cluster are great
the rest are kinda meh
daring hedge
Not as much of a breeze tho, so I wouldn't blame you for resetting twin or triple
true fable
delta is fine
rain sedge
determined by speedrunners?
true fable
lol
bronze viper
But slight ideal DPS downgrade
rain sedge
at high heat it's my no 1 hammer
rain sedge
I pick delta over cluster at my 53 heat I think
gaunt fiber
Because you're a delta gamer
dire steppe
triple chain is like the opposite of charged exploding spear (on zag spear). triple chain is 2 good hammers that suck if you combine them, and charged exploding is 2 meh hammers unless you get both
bronze viper
Idk, not my math, I just asked here at some point and that was the response I got
gaunt fiber
Have you seen my Lernies today Schad
dire steppe
i also am not a fan of triple rocket but that might just be me
true fable
isnt saying someones a delta gamer just the hades way of saying they dont have enough brain cells to reload
that doesnt seem too polite
daring hedge
triple chain is like the opposite of charged exploding spear (on zag spear). tri...
Exploding launcher isn't really a meh hammer tho
gaunt fiber
No
rain sedge
Have you seen my Lernies today Schad
Im just doing some 54 hestia, so yes
gaunt fiber
It means they can unleash their potential
bronze viper
Wait, are you implied Triple Chain Shot on Bow is bad?
You clear like entire rooms with single power shots
rain sedge
isnt saying someones a delta gamer just the hades way of saying they dont have e...
sir this is a polite channel
daring hedge
Ledger
rain sedge
bullying will not be tolerated!
daring hedge
Triple chain makes shotguns nearly impossible
bronze viper
Wasn't aware of that, why?
They still come from the same origin point at point blank
gaunt fiber
Im just doing some 54 hestia, so yes
I don't see the connection here
daring hedge
Something to do with how chain can't pierce properly, so it will prioritize just one shot hitting your target
true fable
yeah its odd
daring hedge
You have to be like 5x more precise with the shotgun to make it actually work
rain sedge
54 hestia is free until elysium
daring hedge
Like directly inside the target
dire steppe
Imagine not being inside hades smh
bronze viper
Weird. I guess I'll try to pay attention to that the next time option comes up? Whenever that is lol
daring hedge
And I know directly inside the target sounds easy but it's super finicky in practice
dire steppe
i should play actual zag bow more
daring hedge
Makes shotgunning feel very bad
bronze viper
I'm not really understanding the logistics of the interaction, even without pierce, the 3 hitboxes will still hit the closeby target (at least on Rama). I'd have to see it I guess
I can try forcing it tonight
dire steppe
how does a literal gun shot do only 15 base damage but a shield whack does 25. explain that
daring hedge
The side ones graze past and don't hit
bronze viper
Good to know.
daring hedge
Like, if anything it is most noticeable on Rama honestly
It's like if the side shots won't have their own centers hit your shotgun target, they give up and slide past
bronze viper
I think I may not have noticed this because if I take Triple Shot at high heat I'm probably dead by Elysium for the second hammer from greedy shotguns lmao
I know it's got wayyy higher potential than Perfect but for me I put Perfect higher because it leads to me making less stupid decisions
rain sedge
why does getting an attack boon on AP2 feels impossible
and why does athena ALWAYS give bronze skin on AP2
bronze viper
I had 3 runs in a row with AP2 shackle Zag bow 2 days ago that were room 1 Thunder Strike, Curse of Agony, followed by Thunder Strike
So I do not empathize
bronze viper
That utility doe
gaunt fiber
and why does athena ALWAYS give bronze skin on AP2
:)
halcyon flame
And I know directly inside the target sounds easy but it's super finicky in prac...
i'm gonna take that out of context
rain sedge
okay
halcyon flame
rain sedge
is it gonna be chariot or greatshield that kills me this time
bronze viper
inb4 Popper Shade explosion
gaunt fiber
Are you awake at 4 am lad
dire steppe
do you guys kill your poppers at the end of a room
i do cause it saves like 2 seconds
bronze viper
I kill them for call charge too lol
rain sedge
so close to dying from chariots
tail help me
what do I do
how do I make it consistent like you do
bright mango
Dont die
bronze viper
Also I like how you've replaced your identity entirely with hatred for Chiron :3
bright mango
Thats what you should do
rain sedge
DOUBLE CAST REPLACEMENT
what the hell
I want to keep this zeus cast since it has jolted but aphro said no
that's like... 1/900 chance
bronze viper
(i don't actually know how to do that math idk what the odds are on anything)
rain sedge
10% chance of replacement
bright mango
ok
rain sedge
1/3 chance that the replacement is the one chosen by AP2
square that for chance of double replacement
bright mango
Yeah
dire steppe
that’s only if it was 2 consecutive boons
bright mango
My calculator said 9x10 to the power of -04
bronze viper
It's less than 1/900 though right since it's not 100% the cast will be amongst the 3
dire steppe
otherwise you receive many boons over the course of a run
bright mango
And this is only for the chance of two replacements in a row
not two cast replacements
rain sedge
it calculates the replacement chance first, rather than the core boon chance first, I think
but if I'm wrong, then it's even less than that, yeah
bronze viper
Yeah it's definitely way less than 1/900. Lucky you
dire steppe
if you have only a cast as core boon this is accurate for getting 2 consecutive cast replacements i htink
i got offered triple replacement in a single boon screen once lol
bronze viper
@dire steppe aren't you just going to get triggered that to tag you now people have to type @ chiron?
bright mango
0.09 percent of just the replacement happening
rain sedge
hmm
a room with 4 chariots took my bablo tooth off
but I think I did well to dodge most of them
before they swarm me
dire steppe
its 1/900n^2 where n is the number of core boons you own , for getting 2 consecutive, otherwise its 1- ((900n^2 - 1)/900n^2)^k - k((900n^2 - 1)/900n^2)^(k - 1) for getting at least 2 cast replacements in k boon receipts
bronze viper
You defined your variables. I'm convinced.
dire steppe
don't be
this doesn't take into account the possibility that ap2 gives you another core boon in between
bright mango
Yeah I just did the odds of getting two replacements in a row with ap2
nothing else
and even that is rare
not taking into account core boons or anything
bronze viper
Also not taking into account legendary/duo reqs
dire steppe
hey wait also 0.09% is NOT 1/900 lol
bronze viper
9/100 has all the same characters. Therefore equal
dire steppe
youre looking for like 0.111%
rain sedge
sold bronze skin, got bronze skin again on elysium xD
this run got TD3ed anyway
a bit sad
got to heroes with 0 time left
dire steppe
if you take bronze skin 3 times in the same run it upgrades to golden skin and gives you 50% DR
rain sedge
dead
bronze viper
bronze->iron->steel->black->mithril->adamant->runite skin for each time you take it.
rain sedge
would've gotten it if I didnt get 2 rooms of unarmored swordsmen I think
bronze viper
Yeah swordsmen underappreciated. They don't ever stop spawning
rain sedge
I was kinda happy with my chariot handling though
bronze viper
You're working on 56 unseeded Eris right?
dire steppe
56 minute eris? i could do it in under 20
bronze viper
Lmao
rain sedge
no, this time it's 54 hestia
it's 56 seeded eris first, then unseeded
if I have to reset 4 times after every death, I want to be able to have a high % of succeeding when I do get the lightning strike
dire steppe
do you seed lightning strike or a hammer
rain sedge
or maybe I'd wise up and do other things with my life, either way is cool
dire steppe
you should just do a run without ap2 and then prove it was theoretically possible if ap2 gave you the right rng
smh
bronze viper
Yeah, that's def an option too. When I got 49 Rama in EA I got so sick of the game from playing with seeds for like a month straight that I quit until 1.0 lol.
w/ AP2*
rain sedge
tbh it's just with lockdown I got nothing else to do
dire steppe
are you the UK
bronze viper
(that was my answer then too lol). Chase your bliss. Your brain will do a good job of telling you if you actually want to continue
dire steppe
I actually find ap2 to be quite fun. But only at low-ish heat, where you can make most garbage builds work
bronze viper
Yeah I agree with that
dire steppe
After party meta
daring hedge
I definitely don't think AP was designed with super high heat in mind, yeah
bronze viper
It's maddening when you're using AP2 to get to a heat threshold though, since it "theoretically" shouldn't make the game harder amortized over a long number of runs.
dire steppe
After party is actually theoretically a really good boon if LC didn’t exist
You could use it like SD while taking DDs
dire steppe
Ledger confirmed actuary major
bronze viper
software developer, womp womp
dire steppe
I haven’t taken one of those classes since like 3 years ago
bronze viper
But my parents are real estate agents and I had to get my license to help them when I was in high school, so yeah that's where I picked up that word from
rain sedge
are you a software developer too ledger?
bronze viper
I am yes
dire steppe
why are both the top bow players furries. is there something that gives you the hidden power
bronze viper
I am literally at this moment doing that. Very effectively, if you can tell
bronze viper
why are both the top bow players furries. is there something that gives you the ...
The padding on the fursuit helps with the bowstring recoil against your arm
dire steppe
LOL
true fable
thats happened to me before
dire steppe
thankfully no one has made a mod where zag wears a fursuit yet
rain sedge
I was underestimating it for sure
daring hedge
Gilga is close enough
rain sedge
and was watching discord on the side
true fable
yea sometimes i go
rain sedge
but that's wild
dire steppe
Good idea. Use gilgamesh to protect against the bow recoil
bronze viper
Gilga is close enough
Beat me to it lol
true fable
and i only have so many dashes
bronze viper
With the approximate damage output of someone with plastic claws on a fursuit slapping someone with impunity
rain sedge
now that fursuits are in conversation
gaunt fiber
Guys
rain sedge
I want to use a new word I learned
dire steppe
No
rain sedge
ledger, is your avatar your "fursona"?
gaunt fiber
Did you know that you can make the first boon/Hammer in a run move by going to the exit?
bronze viper
Lmao no it's a fanart of a character from Nekojishi. It's a game.
dire steppe
But it could also be your fursona
gaunt fiber
Game wants it to be in your sight
bronze viper
I don't have a fursona :3 I'm not that invested. I just "like the art"
dire steppe
Is that like the people who read playboy for the articles
bronze viper
Yes
gaunt fiber
ledger, is your avatar your "fursona"?
Is that like you in an animal form
gaunt fiber
I see
bronze viper
Tailesque doesn't even have a fursona. He just is Fox.
dire steppe
They should make maim multiplicative so that people start actually using it
rain sedge
what...?
bronze viper
Tailesque is a code name to keep Star Wolf off his tracks
daring hedge
I have claimed established character Fox McCloud as my official fursona obviously
shy plinth
Oh Schad it's a smash reference don't worry
daring hedge
Oh yeah Poseidon wave dashing how could I forget
bronze viper
Every run for Tailesque is Final Destination Fox Only.
daring hedge
Also I never win with sea storm because sea storm literally never shows up for me
true fable
tailesque
daring hedge
Bright01
bronze viper
meeshown complete
daring hedge
I think it's funny how a lot of people see him as the meeshown compreet fiyahhh gwahh guy
bronze viper
Fire Emblem cries
true fable
fire emblem has some players
true fable
i played ssbm before i played FE but ive played a ton more FE than ssbm by now
rain sedge
about as good as hades one could say
true fable
which is an accomplishment
limpid warren
i played three houses was pretty good
true fable
granted i've played every fire emblem after 7 except fates and echoes
limpid warren
only fe game i’ve actually played
i touched awakening a bit but eh couldn’t get into it as much
daring hedge
Also it's a bummer that starfox might be f-zero'd because of sf zero
Divisive controls and all
bronze viper
What pacts should I use for 32 heat?
I thought there was a Switch Starfox game in dev
bronze viper
That seems reasonable
daring hedge
Extremely normal pact for heat climbing
neat sonnet
ok so ignore the tiny tiny heat counter in the corner but Isee how nyaanyaa's suggestions work really well! admittedly I got duos left and right but I've got a feel for how it'll go later https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794945290390077511/814959577534562334/unknown.png
also antos is lovely
bronze viper
Avoid CF2 like the plague, you can't buy gemstones if you have CF2
gaunt fiber
Antos best boyos
neat sonnet
true, you can't buy gems on CF2
daring hedge
Yeah how am I supposed to get charon's keys
neat sonnet
antos is a gem tho
bronze viper
Lol, the speculative 62 heat guy had HL4 CF1 right? What a master
neat sonnet
what a legend
daring hedge
HL4 no HS lmao
bronze viper
oh boo
gaunt fiber
So we won't have a day without mentioning 62 heat
bronze viper
Lol, it's how we say hello
daring hedge
Legends say he never got off of work to post the screenshot
bronze viper
"62 heat?" "Thanks, 62 heat to you as well."
solar maple
I can't wait until tailesque clears 62 heat
so I can meme about that guy who "cleared" 62 heat
with "rama"
bronze viper
I thought it was on Malphon
daring hedge
Oh yeah fists twice
solar maple
that guy would be tail
solar maple
yeah malphon the way to go tbh
gaunt fiber
That's funny pseudo
shy plinth
I was thinking that last tick of hard labor really makes a difference without any healing or DDs
gaunt fiber
There's healing
bronze viper
I get really stressed out when I watch people speedrunning in Asphodel just casually attacking in lava.
gaunt fiber
Centaur's hearts
daring hedge
Draining cutter strats
solar maple
HL is one of the only pacts where earlier points in it are more painful I think
gaunt fiber
And that hammer indeed
bronze viper
Idk, Brimstones go from 111111111111 to 2222222222 at HL3
One of those ouches a lot more
bronze viper
I haven't played GY in a long time, I thought the firecracker noises were my headphones popping
I'm not terribly confident about trying 40 tonight. I'm so good at getting hit. Don't want tor ruin a good thing.
It's like, my specialty
gaunt fiber
40 Guan Yu?
bronze viper
Ye
gaunt fiber
When
bronze viper
Idk whenever I can stop pretending to be at work?
I was going to do another practice run then try it out. I'll post here
gaunt fiber
Nice
bronze viper
So like, how do you disengage if you accidentally start your Strike + Strike combo and you want to do a dash strike lol
I feel like the window for it allowing you to start the next Strike is like an hour long
gaunt fiber
You dash out
bronze viper
I've just been pressing special to reset my animations in that case
gaunt fiber
I did the maths it's 2 hours
But how I don't see how you'd accidentally double strike
Except if you double dash strike then do it again but it's on cooldown so you attack and then you panic and attack again
bronze viper
You called it
If you try to dash strike too quickly out of Strike 1 the game assumes you want to dash Strike 2
Then you ded
unique zephyr
Died vs dad, going to upload another video
did EM2, BP1, FO2
i'm keeping EM2 for learning for now
normal asterius is still kind of tough with increased speed, although I'm not used to theseus throwing spears all the time now
I tried to implement some of the stuff mentioned but I noticed some mistakes immediately after I made them
bright mango
POGGGG 32 BOONLESS
unique zephyr
Dad does that sometimes
solar maple
trying 50 heat slicing flare right now
entering styx, but I don't think I'll beat em4
no patty no DDs. We'll see
solar maple
for memes
daring hedge
wouldn't thunder flare be even more of a meme
gaunt fiber
yeah but pseudo wants to win
solar maple
also slicing flare is more fun
daring hedge
fair enough, i legitimately don't know which of the bad beo flares are fun outside of their bad factor
but maybe slicing isn't even that bad i dunno truly
solar maple
it's pretty bad
but when you get some of the support boons it's kind of cool
I was 4 sacked though
probably dead
would have had 3:30 for dad on a 3 sack
which is enough
but 4 sack I'll be pretty dead
wait no I left the 3rd chamber at 3:30
maybe I have a chance
unique zephyr
here's the run I got to dad and died
also almost timed out vs theseus and asterius (only EM2 this time)
i want to try mirrorless one day
but i'm scared
solar maple
yeah no I died to dad
em4 with slicing flare is not the way
especially with no snow burst
wouldn't have done it on a 2 sack either
daring hedge
tyler rn: 👁️
solar maple
I mean chill really does make it much easier to fight em4
daring hedge
ye
some of my easier rama EM4s had frost flourish
one with killing freeze
very swanky
solar maple
yeah the 54 heat win with a very clean em4 was snow burst + killing freeze
easy dodges
or blocks in my case
honestly for em4 zeus cast >> ares cast
daring hedge
lol
solar maple
yeah
also for zeus cast I don't have to reset for extra cast in tart
so maybe it's a better meme
bronze viper
strimming
solar maple
a real shame about this one
maybe I could have taken it with patty
I even had vicious cycle
but I died in phase 2 😦
so patty probably wouldn't have even been enough
daring hedge
damn yeah you had all the rift pieces
rain sedge
hmmm
do I keep shackle for ashpodel since I have athena already?
or do I force a god hoping AP2 will give me attack
OR do I play with skelly
unique zephyr
Hopefully some people can comment on my failed run I posted
I went down to EM2 so I could do FO2 for now
Also BP1
gaunt fiber
what's the aspect Schad
gaunt fiber
keeping shackle was fine imo
gaunt fiber
yeah you have a pretty bad one
unique zephyr
Poor Hestia attack
spice lava
Keeping shackle is fine during Asphodel if you're confident
solar maple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak3CmAw6Df8&feature=youtu.be
Here is an efficiency thing: take a look at how you handled 1:30
do you see a better strategy for killing those 2 enemies?
I'm not just talking about the missed attack
unique zephyr
Lemme think
I was confused bc auto aim wasn’t working but I’ll look at that
Again
Ok, after tagging one just charge shot other
solar maple
even before you attack
you ran down the bottom
if you dash away along the top of the room, the wringer chases you
rain sedge
speedrunner pseudo is on the case 👀
unique zephyr
Wait lemme picture that
solar maple
or I'm dumb
unique zephyr
Which direction is that isometrically
solar maple
because the powershot would just kill the lout
with SS
this is why I don't play rama
smh
still
in general, you want to lead enemies to follow you in a way that lines them up
also you just kind of walked awkwardly when you could have dashed away
then once you walked a long distance, you dashed back into the wringer risking a hit
no real reason for the risk
manipulating where enemies follow you like this is how good players never seem to have that annoying 1 leftover enemy
solar maple
which link?
rain sedge
bacchus link
solar maple
also at 1:27 you just specialed the same lout 3 times in a row
gaunt fiber
I'm watching Ledger
spice lava
at 1:30 The wringer is fast and coming at you but if you have the good timing you can bait him by dashing at the last moment, making it stop moving and missing the catch
gaunt fiber
idk how people watch Guan Yu I almost had a heart attack at lernie
solar maple
idk how you play guan yu
spice lava
if you know the timing of the wringer, on this situation you can powershot both of them if you bait the wringer correctly
rain sedge
imagine waking up
and saying
"today I'm gonna play guan yu for 8 hours"
couldnt be me
gaunt fiber
I mean of course if you say it like that
dire steppe
idk how people watch Guan Yu I almost had a heart attack at lernie
watch the vod of retrash’s lernie fight on his gy 45 streak
rain sedge
I love when a god offered me a useless boon twice in a row 🙂
I should stop playing AP lol
gaunt fiber
Nice
daring hedge
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/814981188514349066/20210226160340_1.jpg sea storm rama 50 except this time i actually got the sea storm so it counts now
solemn pulsar
technicality ELIMINATED
daring hedge
sea storm even came from electric shot because i didn't get thunder flourish until later lol
then sold for big purple boon money
rain sedge
hello mr gull
how are we feeling for the race
and grats tail
you can tag @true fable on the victory screen
solemn pulsar
nervous since i've been bogged down in stressful work stuff all day
daring hedge
i don't need to since you just did schad
solemn pulsar
if i was racing first i'd be in shambles rn
daring hedge
oh yeah sending all my good luck energy to you cgull
vital grove
Rooting for ya, CG
solemn pulsar
goddammit i was just like "how does phoenix know my IRL initials"
forgetting that that's the whole reason i picked this name lol
gaunt fiber
I'll give you 50% of my spirit cgull
rain sedge
do you know
that strongbow with sword BP
deals FORTY damage a hit?
because I didn't, and I lost bablo tooth in room 1 elysium 🙃
solar maple
I actually don't know how much damage anything in this game does
and even when I do remember I'm always off by a bit
because beo adds 10%
which really doesn't matter, especially with HL5
it's like HL5.5 instead
rain sedge
someone talk me out of it
do it on stream coward
unique zephyr
<@!266732686838595606> so what do you want us to look at here?
Sorry just saw this, mainly inefficiencies in my play that cost time
And also what I’m doing wrong with using Rama
Was resting but can see this now
unique zephyr
Oh hades fight and heroes
Lemme find time stamps
Especially uh hades
31:54 is start of dad fight
I’d like a look at that the most if it’s just one thing I struggled so hard here
I took so much damage first phase that I died only a bit in his second
I hope that’s what you had in mind when you asked
Also the practice pact
Is this okay for FO2 and TD3 practice
I’m doing EM2 for now to avoid the nightmare but I still did bad in vanilla heroes fight
If you didn’t mean like this let me know and I’ll find something that you’d like to look at more
solar maple
I do think you need to change your strategy for FO2
rain sedge
rama is a hard weapon because it takes some understanding of the weapon to be effective
solar maple
if looks like you are used to being able to squeeze in an attack before dad gets his attack off
rain sedge
you need to know when are you able to powershot and when you need to play away
solar maple
that doesn't really fly with rama on FO2
rain sedge
and right now you're messing that timing up a lot
and you're playing afraid, which means you prolong the fight
solar maple
you need to wait for him to do something committal, then do your attack then
rain sedge
if you wanna practice, play hestia, the weapon takes no thought
practice one thing at a time
secondly
solar maple
if you ever watch tail play, he does this very well
rain sedge
youre not used to FO2 speed
you're eating attacks right and left that you shouldn't even eat with no divine dash
and practicing that will go a long way
and you need to know which attack you can deflect and which you cannot
and deflect those
plush scaffold
if you wanna practice, play hestia, the weapon takes no thought
Sad Hestia noise
rain sedge
thirdly
you should practice EM3 FO2, the EM2 fight is very different and you need to get used to the real fight
other than that, yeah, just practice
rain sedge
Sad Hestia noise
bonjour lili
shy gulch
just keep playing
rain sedge
when does HC start?
solar maple
lets go cgull
rain sedge
I wanna make a pokemon related meme
involving his avatar picture
but that's too much effort I think
plush scaffold
Team [Steven Seagull] ?
rain sedge
Lili why are you not representing team Imperdable on HC?
sullen minnow
Alright gang, trying to get 32 spear done for 6/6. Thinking achilles. Any special recommendations for build directions?
true fable
^
sullen minnow
Looking down the barrel of HL1 LC1 CF2 JS1 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3
sullen minnow
yeah im not super worried about the heat
true fable
but otherwise ok
rain sedge
FO2?
true fable
achilles likes boons imo
rain sedge
I'd take HL4 over FO2
true fable
FO2 is fine
sullen minnow
any boon recs that pair well with achilles?
sullen minnow
hmmmmm, hl4 for FO1?
sullen minnow
would that be your trade?
true fable
flood shot
true fable
i would say hades spear is a joke
unique zephyr
if you wanna practice, play hestia, the weapon takes no thought
You’re right I should do that
true fable
but jokes are supposed to be funny
rain sedge
pepelaff
true fable
and hades spear just makes me sad
sullen minnow
i feel like i can hack a little extra there
sullen minnow
is LC one of those on-or-off things?
rain sedge
yes
unique zephyr
And doing EM3 is good to know I will do that
rain sedge
LC1 is neither here nor there
true fable
arty attack > zeus attack imo
sullen minnow
I always feel awkward putting it between 0 and 4
unique zephyr
HL4 FO1 is mathematically less DPS than HL1 FO2
That’s very interesting to know and explains a lot
rain sedge
you're supposed to advocate for mimicking eris everywhere
sullen minnow
alright, thanks
unique zephyr
Less by how much
true fable
and yeah i think LC0 or LC4 just because additional HL or FO means you take some chip damage here and there
unique zephyr
A decent amount?
sullen minnow
HL4 FO1 is mathematically less DPS than HL1 FO2
I'll try this on, thank you
rain sedge
or LC2 if you wanna be like half and half
true fable
crit boosted achilles empowered stabs are big damage
rain sedge
there's no LC1 or LC3
unique zephyr
The 6 heat is so juicy though
rain sedge
billowing strength
sullen minnow
copy Zeus it Up
rain sedge
I'd practice on FO2
nah jokes aside
if you dont reset for flurry jab
dont do my build
sullen minnow
lol ok
solar maple
hestia is generally considered the easiest high heat weapon
rain sedge
just do like
solar maple
unless you're trash at it like me 😦
sullen minnow
i can force flurry, i have the mods
solar maple
then you play beo
sullen minnow
but i think i'd feel dirty
shy gulch
hestia good send tweet
shy gulch
getting flurry jab :^)
rain sedge
that way you can also have attack arty
and then wave pounding and rupture
sounds free
solar maple
L I G H T N I N G P H A L A N X
unique zephyr
hestia is generally considered the easiest high heat weapon
So would the heat record be on Hestia if Tails’s favorite aspect was Hestia instead?
rain sedge
no, hestia can't go beyond 58 heat
unique zephyr
And it he bothered to max it
shy gulch
the inability to take DC2
solar maple
hestia is not good for 59+ heat
unique zephyr
Why 58
shy gulch
really really hurts it
solar maple
well hestia can do RI3
unique zephyr
Oh dc2
shy gulch
at mid to high 50s
solar maple
but it's still rough
rain sedge
you cant take DC2, you can't take RI2
sullen minnow
I mean, if i need to look into hades spear i gladly will. I know i can't GY well enough for a fact, but i've never touched hades much. I'm pretty much picking achilles by default
shy gulch
once you get to mid to high 50s, hestia falls off
shy gulch
but its the best up until there
unique zephyr
So at 40 it’s good
shy gulch
yes
unique zephyr
Good to know
solar maple
it's good at 58 lmao
solar maple
yeah pretty much
rain sedge
i s i t g o o d t h o
I couldnt do the 54 🙂
I'm bad 🙂
I'm actually genuinely sad 🙂
unique zephyr
Glad to know everything can be solved by playing more
So I’ll do that, I’m resting my muscles though
solar maple
I mean it's a top 3 weapon at basically every heat level
unique zephyr
I have a big day tomorrow (not hades related lol)
solar maple
so I would say it's pretty good haha
unique zephyr
Top 3 at what? Speed?
solar maple
clearing
beating the game
for speed it's still pretty good
but not top 3
schad I can't do 50 with it
my hestia gameplay is scuffed
well everything but my beo play is scuffed
but that's beside the point
even my beo play is scuffed tbh
true fable
everyones beo play is a lil scuffed
solar maple
^^
true fable
tbqh
solar maple
true
true fable
beo just has animations that make you go
???????
like standing attack into dash strike is so wonky
but can be optimal
same with special > catch> slam
solar maple
so if barrel roll is a monthly challenge
rain sedge
NOOOO
solar maple
does it die at the end of the month?
solar maple
rip
true fable
if it makes you feel any better
earlier this week i threw a zeus 50 vs dad
where i got ap2 sea storm and splitting bolt
true fable
it was zeus cast
but yeah
still incredible
i got sea storm on the call lol
and i guess the strikes too
turns out doing damage isnt enough
you also have to dodge it
rain sedge
that is a surprise yes
ok I'm on elysium on another really good run
I can't get spread fire
so I can only get bricked by a hazard bomb
triple bomb lets goooo
unique zephyr
So once I get used to FO2 with Hestia then it’ll be easier for other aspects too?
I don’t want to do only Hestia forever but I don’t mind practicing with it only for the time being
rain sedge
my perfect run is dead
I don't have enough DPS to get through elysium apparently
on 56
even with a perfect boon setup
just gonna get TD3ed without than/fountain/patty
bronze viper
how perfect?
bronze viper
I don’t want to do only Hestia forever but I don’t mind practicing with it only ...
Hestia does give you the benefit of being able to visually identify the different animations and stuff without having to be in the thick of it. It also gives you the most breathing room for EM3 and Dad, both of which get dramatically more difficult with FO2
unique zephyr
Hestia does give you the benefit of being able to visually identify the differen...
Ah okay, that makes sense then. I am starting to find it somewhat boring but you’re right about being able to pay attention to the animations since Rama requires too much of my brain power right now
Rama big brain aspect
Hestia small brain
But that’s okay for me for now 😛
unique zephyr
https://imgur.com/a/yqRlcN2
You got that with AP2? Sucks how even a blessed run can still fail
I’m curious what on high heats cause people to sometimes fail TD3?
Is it JS and CP and DC?
Or other things too
rain sedge
JS, CP
and you lack an actual build with RI and AP on
sigh
it's not blessed enough, have to get enough free rooms
wintry berry
I wish I could give you my luck of my last 45 heat GY run
solar maple
add that on to a garbage AP2 build and you can run out of time fast
while having to play safe because you die in 2 hits
56 heat is very hard
unique zephyr
I can imagine, Tail’s 60 heat clear must have been a hell of a stressful time for him
solar maple
I've tried some 60 heat rama
I think I made it out of tart once
it's insane
then after a brutal run you need the time, health and skill for maximum difficulty dad
EM4 on it's own costs a few mins
compared to normal dad
because you have to play safer, he has an extra health bar, and he heals
unique zephyr
How do you even do EM4 with everything else and make TD3