h1-high-heat-strategies

[honest kernel]

That's what I used to do

[edgy arrow]

shackle beowulf is my life now

[honest kernel]

That's something I legit want to try out

At some point

[edgy arrow]

i stole it from pseudo

it’s actually pretty good

[honest kernel]

Beo has big numbers on attack, yeah

Cast damage neato too

[solemn pulsar]

Just run zag shield

Same base damage, no cast, no slow movement

[edgy arrow]

i failed to get an attack or cast until the elysium mid shop on shackle beo once, and was doing alright time wise

[honest kernel]

Zag Shield is kinda locked in shackles, for scaling

Beo, not so much

[edgy arrow]

if i’d hit patty i would’ve cleared elysium with JS3 CP2 DC1

alas no patty so i timed out in champions

[honest kernel]

Also, you get the damage bonus on bullrush

Pretty relevant, IMO

Base bullrush sucks

for damage

but Beo bullrush is strong

[edgy arrow]

^

[solemn pulsar]

Dragon rush charged shot is so satisfying

[wanton plover]

what are you chances to see npcs like sissyfuss euri patro

[solemn pulsar]

“Here let me throw this truck at you”

[solemn pulsar]

Not known but empirically about 30% chance in each biome

[wanton plover]

i see

[honest kernel]

Too many factors to account for

Chaos, room layouts

[solemn pulsar]

1/3 is a decent estimate

[honest kernel]

^

[edgy arrow]

so in theory i should average 1 npc per run

[dire steppe]

Buff patty to be 100% tbh

[edgy arrow]

roughly

[honest kernel]

1.5

With Chaos

[edgy arrow]

that feels about right

[honest kernel]

for free rooms

So yeah

1.5 free room per biome

so 4.5 of them on average

per run

Npc being one of them, likely

[edgy arrow]

oh neat

now i can complain if i get less than 4.5

[solemn pulsar]

What? No

[honest kernel]

That inlcudes Than, Survival Rooms, Fountains, Chaos

[solemn pulsar]

Oh

[honest kernel]

Or so I heard

[solemn pulsar]

Maybe

1.5 is high for asphodel

I’d say asphodel averages 1

At best

[edgy arrow]

y’all speedrunners have got to agree

i rely on you for nerd stuff like this

[honest kernel]

The math we know on that is like calculated from run data, not from the code itself

So it's bound to have some variance

[solemn pulsar]

yeah room generation is complex

[edgy arrow]

ohh

[solemn pulsar]

even something like thanatos which is a straightforward 8% in each eligible room

[edgy arrow]

how come you don’t know from the code?

[solemn pulsar]

because it's not like "30% fountain"

there are like 25+ rooms per biome

all of which are picked from somewhat randomly

but also according to certain rule

[honest kernel]

Some room layouts don't let Than spawn in either

[solemn pulsar]

we can't extract a raw chance because there isnt one

[honest kernel]

And some have more rooms to choose from

some have 1, some 2

[edgy arrow]

so it’s dependant on how other stuff goes

[honest kernel]

Midshops can only appear in 2+ choices

[edgy arrow]

but can’t you account for that in the chances?

[solemn pulsar]

yes

but it's very complex

[edgy arrow]

fair

[solemn pulsar]

you would have to either crowd source a ton of people's save files, or write a simulation wrapper aroundthe room generator

[honest kernel]

Too many "Ifs" to account for

[solemn pulsar]

and at the end you'd probably get a number close to 30% anywy

[honest kernel]

^ for NPC rooms, yeah

[edgy arrow]

ah okay

fair enough

well 1.5 as a rough estimate is good enough for me

[solemn pulsar]

basically it would be a lot of effort for a little bit of knowledge that you can't do much with

[honest kernel]

^

[solemn pulsar]

personally i'd say expect 2 free rooms in tart, 1 in asphodel, 1.5 in elysium

[edgy arrow]

that makes sense

[solemn pulsar]

maybe just one

1.5 is fine

[edgy arrow]

i guess i don’t really have an appreciation for how complex this stuff can get

i don’t do code lol

[honest kernel]

Tart really brings the average up

Asphodel is short, and Elysium is ruthless

[unique zephyr]

How much faster do the enemies spawn with forced overtime 1 and 2

[shy plinth]

I know this is going to sound stupid but

[honest kernel]

About as fast as the Forced Overtime modifier

[shy plinth]

20% per rank

[honest kernel]

^

[edgy arrow]

20% and 40% faster

[shy plinth]

What Baj said lol

[edgy arrow]

as you would expect

[unique zephyr]

Haha I feel stupid

But that makes sense 😛

[honest kernel]

Spawn animations, and invulnerability phases are both sped up this way

[unique zephyr]

Oooh interesting

What about Tisiphone screen transitions

[edgy arrow]

yes

i think

[honest kernel]

Not sure on the transition itself ?

But the times between the transition, sure

[edgy arrow]

yeah

[honest kernel]

Tis is the slowest of the furies either way

[gaunt fiber]

Another good run died to savior shields

I tried a greedy move to clear the room though

Charged skewer + breaching, divine flourish

still getting better at the game but some BPs on Elysium are just too hard

The greedy move implied triggering a trap and dash through it, baiting 5 enemies

[bronze viper]

I mean, you're developing strategies for Elysium now though, that's a huge step isn't it?

I have done this very sparingly with very select rooms, like Shifter Chariots or Speeder Greatshields, but it may be worth making a save in those room to be able to explore strategies without so much stakes involved.

[true fable]

my strategy is to give up on cry

or get sea storm on 50 heat zeus shield and lose somehow anyway

oh and splitting bolt

granted my only source of lightning was the cast

but still

[bright mango]

There last run was a big f

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah Pengy, but I'll get there

[bright mango]

Making progress

[gaunt fiber]

I'll stream later today I'm still fired up

[bright mango]

nice

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah, I feel like using the traps is mandatory. 500 damage is a lot

I'm baiting an attack, unleash a spin that stuns or strips the armor and boom

[bronze viper]

Yeah I started prioritizing position around traps a lot more heavily recently

I've also prioritized positioning myself into traps more often too. Less effective.

Sigh. I didn't think it would be this hard and I didn't want to pick up a long term project for Zag bow lol, I may put the 50+ on the backburner and chip away at 40s some more. Probably 52 Chiron or 50 Hestia for my next 50+.

[bright mango]

Thing is astaos died to a trap

At the last run

[spiral island]

F

[bronze viper]

Lmao, HS so free on GY though. How can you even tell the difference?

[bright mango]

I cant tell if thats sarcastic or not

[bronze viper]

Depends on the health pool. It gets more sarcastic the longer the run gets

[bright mango]

lol

He was one shot to a trap for almost all Elysium iirc

[bronze viper]

That should more or less be the case for everyone though until you get to like what, 250 health?

[bright mango]

yeah

He died to the orange bomb

75 damage

[gaunt fiber]

I can't tank on RI2

I had 66 hp after Patty

The trap was a risky move but it was either that or dying/hurting the time too much

I don't know if you can iframe the explosion?

[neat sonnet]

Should be able to

[gaunt fiber]

That's what I thought but it takes some nerves to do it on the brink of death

Like when i'm not under pressure I perform well

[bronze viper]

My favorite play is dash deflecting the blades in Styx without Divine Dash

[gaunt fiber]

well actually in that situation any other weapon would have survived

but it does not really matter. The room was a nightmare

[bronze viper]

Lol, I like that the first three biomes are approximately the same difficulty at extremely high heat but the pressure of having had to go through the previous x biomes makes the later ones so much harder mentally

At least for me

[gaunt fiber]

Maybe

the thing is I don't really get to practice Elysium

Since Lernie tough, but I'm getting better

[bronze viper]

Though I guess Elysium is capable of generating more versions of Shifter Speeder Dracon level bs rooms

[gaunt fiber]

You can actually. Especially for Asphodel. One bad dash and you're dead in 2 frames

[bronze viper]

One run when you have a questionable time amount remaining, just make a save in the fountain chamber between Asphodel and Elysium. That's how I ended up gaining confidence when I just started progressing into that biome.

The questionable time I guess is more for momentum and not jinxing your run lmao. Making a save feels like giving up to me

[wanton plover]

starting to love patroclus more than achilles does

[bright mango]

Patty simps rise

[gaunt fiber]

Always nice to meet patty

That was such a good run :(

[bright mango]

It was

[pseudo girder]

Patroclus singlehandedly saves high heat runs with four simple words:

"Touch of Styx Dark"

[true fable]

or if youre baj

hydralite

[unique zephyr]

FO2 EM3 Asterius is SO SCARY

as a mini boss

I need to learn my Rama timings for him lol

[spiral island]

. . . .

[solar maple]

Very scary indeed

[unique zephyr]

What casts are good for Hera bow? I finally maxed its blood and want to try it

[spiral island]

Aphro cast is great

Use that one

[wanton plover]

yes aph or maybe athena too

[spiral island]

Yeah athena is good too

I actually really like athena cast

[wanton plover]

wtf me too

thats my fav one on pos sword

[bright mango]

My favorite pos cast is artemis

[unique zephyr]

Normal hades gameplay looks slow now that I’m using FO2 more

FO2 is fun so far if hard

[bronze viper]

yeah, the pacing of the game feels a lot smoother with FO2

Stuff just happens faster

Spawns, finding enemies etc.

[gaunt fiber]

Lately I've been able to listen to "Through Asphodel" entirely since the fight takes so long

It's a really nice song

[solemn pulsar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/790729912163368991/814583776264716329/unknown.png

[bright mango]

LMAO

[shy gulch]

LOL

[gaunt fiber]

...

That's a really good one

[bright mango]

@gaunt fiber are you strimming later today?

[gaunt fiber]

Yes sir

In like one hour from now, maybe earlier

[bright mango]

cool

[dire steppe]

• all chiron users

[bright mango]

Back to the 40 sword grind

Here we go

[light stag]

I keep dying to Lernie with Stubborn Defiance

Any advice for the EM2 Lernie fight?

[rain sedge]

what heat, what pact, what weapon?

[light stag]

32 heat fists

lasting consequences 4 so going in with just 30 %

[daring hedge]

24/24 aspects at 50+ heat

[unique zephyr]

Nice!

[shy gulch]

[gaunt fiber]

[daring hedge]

i have never felt so squirtyay in my life

[shy gulch]

this is quite the squirtyay moment

now do all of them at 51 to one up hadesprof :^)

[rain sedge]

Hail, King

here, have an extra crown on top of your bigger 60 heat crown, on top of your medium sized 40+50 heat speedrun record crown 👑

[rain sedge]

fists are quite hard on EM2. I'm gonna assume you're not running HS

[shy gulch]

pls dont run HS on fists if u can help it

lernie just becomes death

[rain sedge]

firstly, you want to identify what's the gimmick of all the 5 heads. and also understand that they can't do the same attack twice

with this in mind, have a strategy for each of the head

[bright mango]

Pogg

[rain sedge]

for example, for purple head: you are prepared for their wave animation, so either deflect that or dash through it, and that's your moment to DPS the head

when he summons smaller heads, it's helpful to pause the game, and see what colours they are

and identify heads with the biggest threat, and move accordingly

[light stag]

No HS I don't want to lose a defiance any time a pot hits me in the final fight

[rain sedge]

basically each enemy has a "rhythm" where you need to stay away from them, or you can go in with your fists and do DPS

understanding this rhythm for each colours will make fights easier

then it's just reflex + practice + some pausing to identify threats

or you can just play rail and pew pew pew

[shy gulch]

mood

[light stag]

hmm

I've never before stopped to think about what the different heads' attacks are

just tried avoiding them

it's hard to dodge the head slams partially because I build in protective reflex about falling in the lava

[rain sedge]

there's a huge difference in reactive and predictive actions

reactive = something happens (like purple wave) --> you act (you dodge)

predictive = you analyse what will happen next (the purple head has done a slam/headbutt, so it will throw a wave next) --> you already prepared your action (move into a good position to dodge/deflect)

as you can imagine predictive actions are more effective, since you have more time to think, but also requires understanding so you can analyse it

[light stag]

hmm

I genuinely still don't know what the head's patterns are

[daring hedge]

if you're close, it's typically their signature move according to color, and then a lunge forward

otherwise they'll just do their signature from afar with wider intervals

other than blues ofc

so you can bait a blue slam and have safety in knowing it can only lunge next

[light stag]

thanks

I'm using the fists because they feel the fastest

I have trouble 7 minutes per biome, especially in Elysium

any tips for saving time? Other that always choosing rooms without encounters and avoiding erebus and trials?

[rain sedge]

Do you pause when you decide things?

Td2 is super free, not sure what you're doing wrong

Are you using a good build?

[light stag]

not consistently. I'm using Approval Process 1 and I never equip God's keepsakes

I don't plan them before the run

[bright mango]

I’m taking a break from doing sword 40 for sum boonless runs

Sword is just so frustrating

Ahhh

[light stag]

though even when I'm with a good build I often struggling of exiting Elysium

[bright mango]

Yeah @light stag pause the timer

When deciding stuff

[light stag]

I'll try to do that

and I often skip mid shops

[bright mango]

Dont

[light stag]

maybe I take them every time

[bronze viper]

oh... wow. I'm really bad at beowulf lmao. I was just clearing bounties and yolo practicing speedrunning and my clear time was slower than Chaos on 40 heat

[bright mango]

Midshops are good

[light stag]

It's just with Convenience Fee 2 I often don't have the obol to buy anything

or if I had I wont have enough for the final shop

[wanton plover]

yep seems about right

[light stag]

so it's a miss of a room reward only for the timer

[wanton plover]

yep saving time is a big deal

[rain sedge]

hmm so many suboptimal things here

I'll make an attempt to help

1. read the pinned guide, it'll help

2. certain builds are superior than others for high-end content at every game. for fist, I recommend zeus attack + jolted + demeter aspect. Although any aspect other than gilgamesh will work just as well at 32

3. AP1 is bad (read guide). I had a Real Talk ™️ about why, but in general, don't take it below 45. Check pinned for pacts

good luck

[shy plinth]

What's your full pact?

[unique zephyr]

How important is it to always charge shot rama? I feel vulnerable doing it

do I just need to find the right places to charge shot?

[bronze viper]

Especially early on, assume you always have to charge it, so you don't build bad habits

And to get into the habit of figuring out when you can do it

[unique zephyr]

Ah ok good to know, I have TD off for practice so I can just calm down and focus

FO2 is hard, but I am getting better at it

I cleared once with Hestia on FO2 so I know I can do it

Is Twin Shot on Rama worth the reduced range? It is double damage

[true fable]

yes

[bronze viper]

By a lot, yes

[shy plinth]

Super yes

[rain sedge]

it's not, since the optimum rama build is only by using special

smile

[bronze viper]

Beo-friends who use controller, did you have to rebind your cast to something on your left hand? I'm not sure I have the sufficient number of fingers to charge shield while loading

[daring hedge]

you can load them in the middle of your charge

so charge then mash cast button during that

[solemn pulsar]

I do LB casting on all weapons

[solemn pulsar]

I think this messes with how the dragon rush comes out or something

LB cast is great for Hera and beo

[daring hedge]

oh fair, it doesn't empower the rush like you'd want it to right

[bronze viper]

is that a thing?

what is a beowulf

halp

[true fable]

are we talkin about dragon rushes

[solar maple]

All thr beo people here are kbm lmao

[true fable]

ok so

if you preload your cast

that is

load your cast before you release the charge

(you can do it while charging and itll count)

your rush will be empowered

if you midload your cast

your NEXT rush will be empowered

[bright mango]

I just threw a boonless run so hard

Made it to hades with patty and 300 health

Wtf was i doing

[true fable]

mood

[daring hedge]

yeah relatable

[bright mango]

I was standing in front of him in second phase expecting him to summon vases(he was phasing) but he decided to spear thrust

Why game why

[true fable]

dont play around with dad when hes phasing

phases are weird

wait for him to commit to a thing

[unique zephyr]

Ever have a run where you do worse than usual for no discernible reason?

your inputs are just bad

it's worse when the game gives me everything

and I mess it up

[bright mango]

NOOOO I LOST MY PATTY BUFF TO ONE CHAMBER

Here we go hades fight

NOOO

Rip

I’m bad

I -frame BS

[solar maple]

I thought this too for a long time

but actually if you midload the damage of the bull rush is increased for the rest of the charge

but the aoe of the next charge is increased

not the damage (posted this in speedtech because this is a very common misconception)

[bright mango]

NOOO DIED AGAIN

Why is hades so hard

Why am i bad

I wish i had acorn

[solar maple]

boonless?

[bright mango]

yes

37

Its so frustrating

I keep dying to hades every single time

[solar maple]

maybe I should do a boonless beo

[bright mango]

Go for it

I keep choking at the hades fight

His spear thrusts hit me every time

I can normally i-frame his spins but everything else and I'm just so nervous

[shy gulch]

boonless on a castspect sounds just unfun

tbh

[bright mango]

true

Yeah

[shy gulch]

charged flight gaming

[solar maple]

no

cast beo

zag cast

[shy gulch]

zag cast stinky

[pseudo girder]

but

shackle cast gaming

[unique zephyr]

I won again with FO2, getting used to the increased speed

soon I'll be able to make much better 32 heat pacts once I get used to FO2

[bright mango]

sorry schad

I didnt realize you could ping on twitch

[wintry berry]

It's been a long time since I didn't play with beo shield, and I take too much damage before dying on first boss at 45 heat. I think I forgot how to play with it.

[solar maple]

how do you find yourself getting it?

there are a couple common ways that I've had to force myself to stop doing

like having a bull rush end right on a boss shooting projectiles and getting hit by 237923879 shots

[wintry berry]

I'm always looking for my cast ammos putting myself opened, and playing recklessly

Last time I played beo is when I didn't even know this discord existed and I didn't even do 32 heat with any other weapon

though I did 40 heat with it without even knowing what I'm doing

sorry if i can't pinpoint to any of my errors

[edgy arrow]

one thing that helps with cast management is to pay attention to how many casts you’re loading at a time

idk if you’re doing this but it’s pretty common for people to load all three when they don’t need to, which just increases the time you spend picking stuff up when you could still be dealing damage

[wintry berry]

I'm loading 1 cast per foe, 2 for armored

[edgy arrow]

fair enough

[wintry berry]

I sometimes load 2 by accident bc i spam my right click

[edgy arrow]

are you mid loading?

[wintry berry]

Not always

[edgy arrow]

i don’t do it 100% of the time either; just checking you knew about it

i do mid load most of the time tho

idk it’s hard to give advice without seeing you play; you might want to check out some of the high heat beo runs on the spreadsheet

some of those folks play beo real clean

(not me)

[wintry berry]

Yeah, i just need to dust out my skills

thx for the advices 👍

[unique zephyr]

I keep failing Erebus gates at FO2, I'll get it though

[bright mango]

They’re tough

[unique zephyr]

Yeah. My 32 pacts will be so much easier once I master FO2, though

6 heat is a lot

and also a good foundation for going to 40 since I want to do 40 heat at least

my aspirations feel high but I do want to be at a level where I can do 40 heat

Just keeping in mind everyone has been where I was before, still learning stuff

I have the confidence I can probably handle FO1 at least for weapons that don't like FO2

[wanton plover]

i almost never go for erebus lol

[edgy arrow]

same

[wanton plover]

i fail them a lot too on most aspects. sometimes ill take if other room rewards are poopy

[edgy arrow]

hearts or boons i really want aside

[unique zephyr]

what about early heart in tartarus

[edgy arrow]

yeah that’s fair

[unique zephyr]

i only go for hearts and desirable boons in erebus

[edgy arrow]

those are really good

[unique zephyr]

anything else usually not worth it

+*-**/

[wanton plover]

yea or maybe pom depending on aspect

the first few poms on athena cast are so juicy

[unique zephyr]

yeah I sometimes go for poms too if the situation is good

casts seem to scale well with poms

[edgy arrow]

if you can slap a big pom on your cast early that’s really good

casts absolutely scale really well with poms

particularly the first one is crazy

[rain sedge]

https://imgur.com/a/1IZ9s5x

another perfect run ruined by hazard bomb

yawn

I was avoiding the hammer all biome and had to take it finally

[gaunt fiber]

https://imgur.com/oiSRf8L

I'm proud of this one

I timed out in every biome

But I wanted to reach the champions

So I did, with nothing

[neat sonnet]

well dang

[gaunt fiber]

Both hammers were picked up in Elysium

Same for support fire

[edgy arrow]

both y’all use antos huh

[neat sonnet]

AP2 was uh

not kind

[edgy arrow]

really gotta give it a try

[gaunt fiber]

We use antos because our aspects struggle against furies

Or we as players idk

[wanton plover]

wow ri2

[edgy arrow]

furies hard to be fair

[neat sonnet]

I just got antos today ironically (I have clearly not played enough) and levelled him up right to max, so I can't wait to start using best boi

[gaunt fiber]

It's a really good summon

:)

[edgy arrow]

imma do a 53 attempt with antos rn

if i win i’m using him forever

[neat sonnet]

if there's only one enemy does it just hit once?

[gaunt fiber]

No, twice

[edgy arrow]

^

they both hit the same target if there’s only one

[gaunt fiber]

This stream was intense

[true fable]

wow wtf

[gaunt fiber]

I earned $2.32

[edgy arrow]

nice

[true fable]

pseudo that is pretty interesting

[edgy arrow]

officially a pro gamer

[gaunt fiber]

yeah

I streamed like 8 hours today but let's skip that detail

[true fable]

so the AoE and the damage of the empowered rush are treated separately

[rain sedge]

53 heat beo?

[edgy arrow]

yus

[rain sedge]

that's kinda painful

ap1?

[edgy arrow]

yeah... you’re not wrong

yup

but second place is right there up for grabs

[rain sedge]

oh I forgot you people use EM4

RI0?

[edgy arrow]

RI1

it’d be RI0 but my hell mode save has no beo

[rain sedge]

you can just enable PL on your normal save

or use src hell mode

[edgy arrow]

true

kinda wanna do my own hell mode save, but i might cave on that tbh

[rain sedge]

hmm

artemis just threw some cute speeder splitters on my great run

maybe the trial was a bad idea

[daring hedge]

splitters are good

not much health and worth a ton of difficulty points

[rain sedge]

have no divine dash mr fox 😦

I just die

[daring hedge]

you can just dash through them and attack their back

[rain sedge]

I tried, but there's too many of them

and they are faaast

and there's arty green circle everywhere

[gaunt fiber]

Splitters good me agree

shield bad

spear boyos bad

bow boyos bad

[rain sedge]

oh boy

another room where I have to take the hammer

I wonder if it's gonna be spread fire or hazard bomb

[wanton plover]

is it ap2

[gaunt fiber]

Schad strim

[rain sedge]

it's 2am

I'm sleeping soon

it's ap2 yeah

once I finish this I would stop being addicted to this stupid game hopefully

[gaunt fiber]

how do you know if you're addicted

[rain sedge]

200 hours

[gaunt fiber]

yeah but it's if within a year

[rain sedge]

I couldve been so much better at my job

[gaunt fiber]

is it important schad

[rain sedge]

my job? or hades?

[gaunt fiber]

job

[rain sedge]

I mean it lets me eat

[gaunt fiber]

to be much better

[rain sedge]

so yeah?

[wanton plover]

food not so important

especially on LC4

[rain sedge]

I mean being better is good. More money is always good. But more importantly, it'll make you feel competent at the job, which makes it more enjoyable

which is more important

imagine if you're bad at hades, like dying at tartarus at 10 heat kinda bad, but you have to do it 8 hours a day

it'll suck

it'll be much more fun if you're mr tailesque and you play hades 8 hours a day

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah

I know it's a solid answer you got from me right there

but I get you

[rain sedge]

athena just gave me double bronze skin after reroll lmfao

ughhhh

AP2....

someone convince me to stop this project so I can do better things with my time

[daring hedge]

maybe if you're lucky you'll pom it for like 0.7% more resistance

[bright mango]

I choked the hades fight again

I’m done

[gaunt fiber]

Today I had level 3 or 4 bronze skin

combined with different league

I was Astaos, the invicible guandao

[rain sedge]

does trippy shot stun lernie heads

[daring hedge]

now you can sometimes die in three hits instead of two

[bright mango]

whoa

[gaunt fiber]

I died in Ely, time was bad because I only had those boons

But I was almost invicible

[daring hedge]

no resistance is strong enough to save you from overtime

only divine protection and athena call

[gaunt fiber]

yeah

And skipping biomes helps

[bright mango]

Astaos getting closer tho

Made it to elysium a bunch

[gaunt fiber]

Every day I'm getting closer to Asterius

or rather

[daring hedge]

50 heat GY yeah?

[bright mango]

I learned some Spanish

[gaunt fiber]

he's getting closer

[bright mango]

Everyone has fun

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah mr Tail

I only reset on bad hammer room 1

[daring hedge]

are you abstaining from charged skewer, or would you roll with that

[bright mango]

He said he could win without it

[gaunt fiber]

I'm happy with charged skewer but the runs with it are far from being the best lmao

But I don't reset except if triple/extending on first hammer (first room)

I don't wanna

[bright mango]

You reset once with flaring

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah but dude

[bright mango]

[gaunt fiber]

at some poiunt you're tired you know

[bright mango]

lol yeah

[unique zephyr]

It’s better to rest to not get burnt out

[bright mango]

I turned off fo2 on my boonless

Hades just sucks

[gaunt fiber]

I'm still having fun playing the game

[bright mango]

5 times in a row

[gaunt fiber]

and it's nice

[unique zephyr]

I can only play like half an hour at a time with at least an hour in between for now according physical therapist

But trying to make the most of it

[bright mango]

I play for like 2 hours a day

Gotta balance school and music and stuff

[unique zephyr]

Getting better at FO2, beat Hades twice

[bright mango]

I’ve died to hades 5 times with fo2

[unique zephyr]

I have chronic migraines so I can’t do that much currently but I’m doing what I can with life

[bright mango]

It’s sucks

[unique zephyr]

I usually die before that

[gaunt fiber]

lol

[unique zephyr]

In elysium or asphodel

I also turn on BP2 MM and EM3

To practice

[bright mango]

I have zero protection, acorn or anything useful

I thought this would be easier that 40 sword

[rain sedge]

quick question

[unique zephyr]

Is the lol about me dying

[rain sedge]

does the pauper curse prevent you from getting gold from bouldy?

like the free room

[gaunt fiber]

yes

[wanton plover]

yep

[daring hedge]

yeah

[rain sedge]

and the chaos curst that makes you can't get gold

[bright mango]

Yes

[unique zephyr]

I don’t see why it wouldn’t

[bright mango]

Wow

[wanton plover]

feelsbadman

[rain sedge]

alright cool I'm risking an erebus gate then

it's either that or gold room

[daring hedge]

and purging boons gets you nothing

[wanton plover]

do u ever talk to sissyfuss and spam button and accidentally take heal

[gaunt fiber]

you can get darkness

though

[unique zephyr]

Lol

[bright mango]

What tips do you guys have for a boonless hades fight

I just can’t win

[gaunt fiber]

what aspect

[bright mango]

Hestia

I probably just need to get better

[wanton plover]

just do the same as not boonless. its the same fight

[rain sedge]

dad really just threw speeder louts on the erebus room

[unique zephyr]

How do I dodge FO2 Asterius better

[wanton plover]

but take 5 fewer hits

[rain sedge]

sigh

[unique zephyr]

EM3 btw

[bright mango]

Hug a wall

[gaunt fiber]

You have to be patient Pengy

[rain sedge]

you can quit and it'll bring you on the same room with the choice unselected

[unique zephyr]

I had to do that with Eurydice

[bright mango]

The only reason I’m still going is because i see you guys have 700 attempts so my 5 doesnt look like much

[unique zephyr]

Pressed rarity when I meant level and the other way around

[bright mango]

Thats why I’m still trying

[unique zephyr]

Does a pillar work or specifically the wall

[bright mango]

Wall

[unique zephyr]

Hopefully FO2 will make making pacts a lot easier

And be good for 40 heat

[bright mango]

It won’t at 32 imo

But for 40 it’s useful

Idk but after trying boneless 35, 32 heat normally feels extremely easy

[unique zephyr]

I want to get to the level where 32 is easy, I’m a noob here but I want to improve

I think I can handle FO1 at least

Next 32 pact I’ll use FO1 instead of TD3

[gaunt fiber]

Can use both

[unique zephyr]

I did notice my times were actually getting somewhat faster with forced overtime

Kind of

[solar maple]

FO2 is most of the difference between 32 heat and 40

the other two heat are like HS and JS1 or something

depending on the aspect

[unique zephyr]

How do I get consistently fast enough for TD3

I’m around 22 mins or so on average for clears

I don’t see a speedrunning channel here

[solar maple]

I can link the speedrunning discord if you like

it's quite big

[unique zephyr]

But like I don’t want to rely on 2 sack and still not get it sometimes on 2 sack

Yes please

[solar maple]

https://discord.gg/7m37VPbM is the speedrunning discord

[unique zephyr]

Thank you!

Hopefully FO1 will feel more comfortable now that I’ve done FO2 a bit lol (trying, not succeeding often)

Which weapons handle FO1 worse than others

Like which ones do people avoid FO1 on below 40 or so

[wanton plover]

arthur comes to mind

[quartz mantle]

Yea slow weapons like Arthur

and uh

Arthur

[rain sedge]

Fists and swords maybe since they tend to be less survivable

[edgy arrow]

GY

[quartz mantle]

Yea i'd say swords and fists overall since you have to react a lot quicker to enemies since you're up in their face

[solar maple]

I would probably take FO1 on everything at 40

would avoid FO2 though on some

[unique zephyr]

So guan yu Arthur and fists don’t like forced overtime 2 then?

Making sure I understand right

Thanks for being nice to a noob 🙂

And encouraging me

[quartz mantle]

I mean I just like having FO2 on so I'm used to speedy enemies

[river glacier]

Forced Overtime 2 turned me into a cackling maniac

interspersed with oh-snap

[unique zephyr]

Do you have it all for all weapons or go down to FO1 for Arthur

I’m keeping on FO2 right now and it’s fun in its own way

[vital grove]

I always have it on

Also it speeds up spawns.

[unique zephyr]

But I may do FO1 for my next 32 attempt

I’ve been doing FO2 with BP2 EM3 and MM

To practice

I beat hades only twice with that so far

[vital grove]

You could take AP1, CF2 and start shackle

That leaves you with lc0 and 3 dds

[unique zephyr]

Ew AP

[vital grove]

Or lc1 I forget

[unique zephyr]

I don’t mind LC4

And stubborn

[vital grove]

That's nice

[unique zephyr]

How much easier is FO1 compared to FO2

[vital grove]

I'll tel you what's easier

[unique zephyr]

I’ve been only doing FO2 right now

[vital grove]

Healing a lot of your hp between biomes and having 3 death defiances

[unique zephyr]

I’d need help with a new pact then

Constructing it

[vital grove]

Just pick up strong Drink

And set lc2

That way you can forgo ap

[unique zephyr]

Hope I’m not asking too many questions and being annoying

[vital grove]

You seem to repeat that line a lot

[unique zephyr]

That would involve having Dio in my boon pool

[quartz mantle]

My answer to that is I don't really play arthur so I'll let you know if I decide to go down to FO1 for it lmao

[vital grove]

This community loves helping people

[edgy arrow]

this is literally the asking questions about high heat channel

don’t feel bad for using it as intended

[daring hedge]

you're giving us purpose don't worry

we're always happy to help

[vital grove]

Dio is always nice to have IMO

Even if it's just to sell boons 🧐

[edgy arrow]

i kinda like dio

[unique zephyr]

Thank you, I won’t worry then I am socially anxious a lot

[main delta]

what do u guys think about fresh file? im struggling so hard to get a first clear i think ive done more attempts on that than 50 heat

[edgy arrow]

call good, premium vintage good

[unique zephyr]

Why do some people not like dio?

[wanton plover]

fresh file super hard

u lose many many things on a first run

[unique zephyr]

You don’t even have several gods right

Nor a call

[main delta]

hades completely destroys me, i think im used to FO2 and i dash too early on the spin

[edgy arrow]

fresh file stupid difficult

[wanton plover]

yes u have athen dio ares art

[edgy arrow]

mostly because it’s zag sword imo lol

[wanton plover]

one dash zag sword

absolute nightmare

[edgy arrow]

jks obviously it’s mostly because you have no upgrades

[main delta]

its not having dds and healing that hurts

[edgy arrow]

but boy does zag sword not help

[main delta]

its crazy that its a speedrun category

i cant even clear a normal run lmao

[unique zephyr]

I was gonna say too zag sword is icky

[edgy arrow]

some of the folks who speedrun it don’t even win the first clear

[wanton plover]

i think speedrun meta is not to try for first run

ya take a key and die and get bow

[edgy arrow]

they use the first run to farm darkness and keys and win run 2 or 3

which should give you an idea of how hard it is lol

[main delta]

the brightswords in elysium freak me out

[edgy arrow]

wr wins first run now

[wanton plover]

ya i saw vorime

[edgy arrow]

but some of the others still do this i think

[main delta]

they always seem to get a hit in with their weird invuln dash

how do you avoid that?

[edgy arrow]

do damage and pray

[main delta]

cuz what i do is just run away and force them into doing a projectile so i can deflect

[edgy arrow]

idk brightswords are weird, i kinda just wing it and hope my muscle memory carries me

[main delta]

but that invuln dash attack seems almost unavoidable to me

[wanton plover]

a lot of elys i wait for em to attack and then go ham

[edgy arrow]

^

[wanton plover]

they are super quick

[main delta]

makes sense

i still never learned how to fight chariots

[edgy arrow]

stay behind them

actually i just use a shield which makes it way easier

[main delta]

do they not attack you if you get behind them?

ive never tried

[vital grove]

Is it common knowledge that Maim increases your summon damage?

[edgy arrow]

they can turn pretty fast but they won’t attack backwards

[unique zephyr]

The hit boxes in the front are huge

[vital grove]

Because Antos was hitting for 2250

Per smack

[unique zephyr]

For chariots, deceptively so

[edgy arrow]

it is yeah

[main delta]

this is so helpful im definitely gonna try this later

so do you dash thru them after they do a 180?

[edgy arrow]

haelian discovered it on stream a while back

[vital grove]

I was finishing my 24x32 and literally never played Gilgamesh after trying it one time

So it was like what the f

[edgy arrow]

you can dash through them, yeah

dashing across obstacles to escape and then doubling back behind them is safer if you can tho

[daring hedge]

yeah, get directly behind them while they're charging and they just stop in their tracks

[edgy arrow]

it depends on the situation

[main delta]

holy crap this is so new to me

making an enemy guide would be really interesting

[daring hedge]

definitely make sure you're empty dashing or else a lingering hitbox will usually get you

[main delta]

lingering hitbox?

[daring hedge]

sometimes, even after a chariot has stopped, it still has an active hitbox which can hurt you

for a brief moment

[main delta]

ooh thanks

[daring hedge]

just be careful yknow

[main delta]

also do dash strikes have less iframes or do they have none?

[daring hedge]

none; you lose dash iframes as soon as you press attack during it

[wanton plover]

an absolute scam

especially as sword player

[vital grove]

And you don't get i frames if you sword special and carry it with dash

[main delta]

ok that makes sense cuz i always wondered why i got hit when spamming dash with the fists

[daring hedge]

so you can delay a dash-strike really late

[main delta]

ooh didnt know that either

[wanton plover]

you can go for athena dash to offset

feelsokayman

[daring hedge]

yeah, divine dash is like, as long as it deflects an attack during the dash, that specific attack can't hurt you anymore

[main delta]

melee deflects never made sense to me

[edgy arrow]

i died so much with divine dash today

it’s supposed to automatically make me win right?

i feel ripped off

[main delta]

is it just spin/slam attacks that cant get deflected?

and lasers

[vital grove]

You can deflect the spin

[unique zephyr]

I second this

[vital grove]

It's just it attacks a billion times

[main delta]

hades's 360 can get deflected?

[vital grove]

I mean Asterius

[daring hedge]

asterius' long spin can't be nullified by early deflect

[vital grove]

Like if you Athena call during it he'll take deflect damage

[main delta]

oh myb i shoulda clarified, but wow i also didnt know you could deflect Asterius's spin

[daring hedge]

yeah, only reasonable to do so with call

otherwise you're going to get hit after an initial deflect

[vital grove]

Yeah it's kinda like Zeus shield

Just hits at fractions of a second

And each hit is a separate attack

[main delta]

right? there's like no info on the wiki about attack times, enemy patterns, and all that stuff

like it was only just recently when i learned how to kinda tell when inferno bombers did their little bomb jump

[bright mango]

Should I take abyssal?

I feel it would help me more at the hades fight

[main delta]

i use abyssal since i always felt like boiling falls off really fast

but i know a lot of better players than me use boiling

[bright mango]

I like boiling and normally use it but now i feel like abyssal might be better

[unique zephyr]

The wiki is very incomplete in general to be honest

[main delta]

i personally never felt like boiling added much to my dps

plus the -30% damage has saved my runs so many times

[unique zephyr]

So question: how much does Rama need boons

Asking for pact stuff

I can’t think of any pacts that are especially bad on Rama

[bright mango]

No they aren’t

[unique zephyr]

That aren’t bad for others I mean

[bright mango]

AP is bad

Because rama needs good hammers

[unique zephyr]

AP is bad for every aspect

[bright mango]

No

Very good for hestia

[vital grove]

All Rama needs is positioning

[unique zephyr]

Does Hestia not need hammers

[bright mango]

Not really

[bright mango]

^^^

[vital grove]

AP2 can be crippling because it can make you take awful stuff like explosive shot

[unique zephyr]

Approval process sounds not fun

I might take it above 40 though

[bright mango]

I didn’t have an attack boon for 3/4 of my hestia run and it still worked

[vital grove]

DC2 is free on Rama

[bright mango]

It’s free but very annoying

I hate it

[main delta]

so is js3 i think

[bright mango]

But i take it

[unique zephyr]

CF2 and UC are fine on Rama right

[vital grove]

Sure

[main delta]

yea

[bright mango]

Js3 is free?

Wut

[main delta]

well its not free but i feel like its safer than on other aspects

[wanton plover]

js kinda sad with td and hl

[vital grove]

I would not say free but it does handle it better than most

[main delta]

myb shoulda reworded that better

^

[bright mango]

I’ve not used JS once lol

I used it in my 40 GY but other than that none

[unique zephyr]

What would you use for 32 Rama Pengy

Pact wise

If I used FO1

And what would FO2 pact look like

[bright mango]

@unique zephyr

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/812522738790039592/812522962468995072/image0.png

Oh FO

[wanton plover]

c storm rama

the optimal build

[unique zephyr]

I can probably take off DC with FO

From the above

[main delta]

i feel like u should keep DC but im not sure

it really sucks vs those numbskulls tho

[bright mango]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/814703206881820712/image0.png

[unique zephyr]

Take off one BP then?

[bright mango]

This is a good FO2 pact

It works for rama

[unique zephyr]

TD3 is rough for me

[main delta]

what's that title card? "The Big Five-Oh"

[bright mango]

Idk

[unique zephyr]

I did join speedrunning server and will have pseudo and others look at a TD3 attempt tho

[wanton plover]

50 clears

[unique zephyr]

Because my play isn’t great

[wanton plover]

50th clear total

[main delta]

ohh makes sense

[bright mango]

This was from my first 32 clears

I somehow got away with using DD at 32 at the time

Probably because lc1

[solar maple]

DDs are fine at 32

[unique zephyr]

I wonder why the pinned guide recommends LC4

[solar maple]

either is ok

[bright mango]

Yeah it’s because i was using only lc1

[unique zephyr]

I don’t mind SD though so far

That much

[bright mango]

Yeah it’s just on eris at the time i felt comfortable using fo2

[solar maple]

DDs make bosses easier, but you have to play cleaner in normal rooms

it's personal preference

if you still haven't gotten very good at the dad fight but are pretty good otherwise, DDs are probably easier

[bright mango]

The first haeilian stream I watch he does no hit

Wow

[solar maple]

I was there

[bright mango]

Yeah i saw you

[solar maple]

harvesting all their channel points

[unique zephyr]

I don’t lose an SD to dad

If I get there

If I get to dad I’m usually okay

[solar maple]

then definitely SDs for you haha

[unique zephyr]

Getting there is the problem

[solar maple]

EM3 can be hard too at 32

harder than dad on most weps actually

[daring hedge]

EM3 definitely takes some practice to get used to

[unique zephyr]

I have practiced a lot with EM3

Since low heats

[bright mango]

On my first 32 i didn’t even take em3

Lol

[solar maple]

and most people have less experience with EM3 than dad

[unique zephyr]

Non EM3 feels weird now

[daring hedge]

same lol

[main delta]

i feel like if you get a room with fast strongbows with damage from BP, you'll wish u chose SD

[unique zephyr]

Probably how some people feel about FO

[solar maple]

non em2 is always such a trip for me

[bright mango]

It feels so good

[solar maple]

I never take it off

[bright mango]

I love it

[daring hedge]

yeah normal lernie room is massive

[bright mango]

It is tho

[unique zephyr]

The arena feels so free

In normal lernie

[solar maple]

when I first saw it in fresh file I was so confused

[unique zephyr]

I can move around now

[solar maple]

btw get used to avoiding lava in EM2 if you want to go to 40

since 40 usually has HS

sometimes

maybe not usually

[unique zephyr]

Lava doesn’t kill me normally

[bright mango]

I try not to take HS at 40

Its such a pain

It makes the dad fight miserable

[main delta]

i get hit by dad pots all the time LOL

its so bad i should learn how to dodge them

[solar maple]

yeah don't step in those

[dire steppe]

dont take TD until 50 heat

[bright mango]

With HS that’s 100 damage iirc

[solar maple]

the worst for me is when I'm blocking a laser with a shield

[main delta]

150

[solar maple]

and the laser pushes me into a pot

[bright mango]

Oof

[solar maple]

and I die instantly

[main delta]

😔

[dire steppe]

sounds like your mettle was shakeable

[solar maple]

that's why I never leave the bottom right corner in the em4 fight now

[bright mango]

When i was doing my guan yu 40 i was one shot to a pot the entire fight

[solar maple]

it is my home

[main delta]

that's horrifying

[bright mango]

I was legitimately scared

[dire steppe]

not even after you win?

[unique zephyr]

Gonna try another 32 wish me luck

rama this time

[main delta]

gl!

[bright mango]

Gl!

[solar maple]

gl!

[dire steppe]

gl!

[main delta]

praying for no strongbows

[bright mango]

I honestly don’t mind them that much

Just &@&$*% chariots

They suck

[main delta]

how do you beat them? im so bad at getting past them

and chariots too 😔

[bright mango]

Hide behind terrain

Or kill them

[main delta]

i get surrounded by them a lot so my positioning probably sucks

[bright mango]

Yeah

I’m going to sleep

Good luck on your runs everyone!

[main delta]

but getting hit once takes off so much health and then its kind of a chain reaction where i keep getting hit

gn!

[unique zephyr]

Thanks, same to you!

I'll be going to bed in a bit as well

then play more tomorrow, starting a bit of a run though, glad I can just quit after finishing most rooms

Rama likes Artemis builds for damage right?

[daring hedge]

yes

deadly strike is the attack boon you gun for

and hunter dash is of course huge damage for it as well

[unique zephyr]

I found my main problem in regards to speed: knowing enemy attack patterns to not get hit

hard to pay attention and be fast

particularly enemies like fast wringers

TD3 seems essential to most 32 pacts if you don't want them to be nasty

[bronze viper]

I literally did not pay TD3 any consideration until 50

Playstyles will vary

[daring hedge]

high heat TD3 is hard

having eight more entire minutes for the full run with TD2 is massive

[solar maple]

I think the only time I ever considered turning off td3 was when I was doing chaos shield. Then again, I only play high heat aspects I like, which tends to be fast ones

[unique zephyr]

The tutorial pact uses TD3, I wonder how I can change it with TD2 in mind

[wanton plover]

today i timed out as nemesis i felt really bad

[unique zephyr]

maybe instead of TD3 TD2 FO1?

not sure how HL5 and FO1 interact though

schlad says he would take forced overtime if it were him in tutorial stream

but not sure how that would change the pact

also one thing is I sometimes chase enemies in aspodel

asphodel is very big for me

[solar maple]

td becomes a problem at high heat mostly because you are forced to take very slow pacts

like CP, DC, JS, EM4, AP, etc

so many slow pacts

[unique zephyr]

so in asphodel I sometimes end up tracking a stray enemy down which ends up delaying the next wave

[bronze viper]

Also bear in mind that the tutorials for pacts were written to spare our fingers from typing the same thing 5000 times. In reality it's an extremely personal preference how your pacts line up until extremely high heat

[daring hedge]

i think at like 50 ofc TD3 becomes an important decision relevant to how fast your aspect can reasonably go even with subpar boons. at 32 TD3 is super viable as long as you're comfortable w/ what you're using

[shy plinth]

@unique zephyr have you recorded any of your runs?

[unique zephyr]

Not yet, I will tomorrow since I'm not doing any more runs today

[solar maple]

yeah tail said what I meant to say. Listen to him

[shy plinth]

And yeah Tail smart

[unique zephyr]

i'll record my first attempt tomorrow

[shy plinth]

You clearly have the skill set to do well at 32, what's missing for consistent td3 is hard to say

But at 32 most of the time td3 is not that tight of a restriction in my experience

[unique zephyr]

Hopefully recording it and posting will help

but it is stuff like chasing down enemies in asphodel

[bronze viper]

Whereas I liked TD2 so I could get more practice in normal rooms and because I enjoy not having to take free rooms, or getting to do sketchy Erebuses or Trials

[unique zephyr]

because I don't really know where they went

[shy plinth]

It starts to get rough once you take the pacts that pseudo posted

[unique zephyr]

that and I'm still experimenting with stuff

[shy plinth]

Well sure but chasing down a single enemy isn't gonna take you multiple minutes

[unique zephyr]

not in one room maybe

[solar maple]

do you ever cast? That's a big time save that lots of less experienced players underuse

[bronze viper]

Unless it's a Gorgon 10 miles into lava and you're Malphon

[unique zephyr]

oh crap

[shy plinth]

Hah sure

[unique zephyr]

I forget to do that

is that really a huge time save?

[solar maple]

yes