the dd is only lost if the sd was already lost in the same encounter
#h1-high-heat-strategies
halcyon flame
hardy sonnet
i get the feeling i’m gonna be waking into lava a lot to get that healing lol
halcyon flame
you can also get touch of styx from patty in elysium which massively boosts your stubborn defiance to 80%
hardy sonnet
love me some patty
halcyon flame
i get the feeling i’m gonna be waking into lava a lot to get that healing lol
indeed, the high heat experience™️
hardy sonnet
lol
halcyon flame
a lot of conditions solely depend on your skill and how good you are at handling them but certain weapons/aspects simply handle certain conditions better than others
rama can easily strip away dc hearts but the other bows may struggle with dealing with those
beowulf can do well enough with jury summons because of its powerful aoe
bright mango
Only use stubborn for lc4
neat sonnet
pretty low heat, but I'm proud to say I cleared 17 heat after coming out of elysium with 30 seconds on the clock and getting 4 sacked and still beating dad with 12 seconds left
bright mango
👏
neat sonnet
Now plan to ramp it up with GY to get to that point too
light stag
a question about the pinned messages
so if you take Lasting Consequences 3 you need to beat every encounter with only 60% if your max life
including bosses
waxen relic
No Healing would be Lasting Consequences 4
light stag
You go in with 30% and get 30% from SD
waxen relic
but yes essentially that's how it goes
light stag
well the pinned message suggests taking LS4
waxen relic
there is however Keepsakes like Acorn and Lucky Tooth
light stag
so the only other way you get healing is after party Touch of Styx and Kiss of River Styx Black from Patty
waxen relic
and if you lose your Stubborn Defiance before picking up a Death Defiance from Athena you get a Death Defiance behind your SD
waxen relic
so the only other way you get healing is after party Touch of Styx and Kiss of R...
Not After Party
halcyon flame
after party is also affected
light stag
but the chances of that lasting until Hades with KoRSB is minimal
LS affects After Party?
waxen relic
yes
halcyon flame
korsb??
light stag
Kiss of River Styx Black - its the bonus Patroclus gives you if you have Stubborn Defiance
waxen relic
i don't think other items from patty get much limelight in high heat, so it's commonly called patty 🙂
light stag
It depends on when get it. I once got right before the fight with the champion and was able to keep it after going into a 3rd door in Styx
So if it less than 5 encounters until the Champions you will keep it if it is a 2 sack
So the Stubborn defiance buff from Patty, Touch of Styx from the Chiron Wells and Skelly's tooth are the only way to get extra health?
hardy linden
and athena DD I guess
quartz mantle
Guan Yu speen, Draining cutter on fists, Cursed Slash on sword, and Stubborn Roots aren’t affected by LC as far as I know
By “as far as I know” I mean there might be more but this is what I remember
Oh and the weird recovery boom from Hermès
The one where you dash after getting hit and heal
light stag
I never figured how that works
I've never felt it function and I've never tried to activate it
quartz mantle
I tried it one run when I was going for a revenge boon build
bright mango
All you have to get used to with lc is surviving with around 70ish health average
quartz mantle
Oh I guess centaur hearts aren’t affected by lc either
solemn pulsar
Quick recovery basically has a cooldown after taking damage. If you dash on frame 1 you get the boons listed amount of health back from the damage. After that it trails off until 0 as you dash later and later
vital grove
And if you go lc2
Which is fine too btw, still keep DD, then strong Drink heals for 50% at fountains which is enough
bright mango
I would still suggest going all out with lc4 for an easy 32 setup
bronze viper
@daring hedge I've noticed a couple of people putting Triple Shot second to Twin for Rama. Has your opinion changed on that? I still prefer the consistency of Perfect/point blank over triple.
violet thistle
So the Stubborn defiance buff from Patty, Touch of Styx from the Chiron Wells an...
Cerberus’ keepsake as well.
wintry berry
After doing my 50 heat run, I wonder how can some of you can do that easily
rain sedge
Quick recovery basically has a cooldown after taking damage. If you dash on fram...
w h a t
everytime cgull says something it's like TIL for hades
rain sedge
After doing my 50 heat run, I wonder how can some of you can do that easily
congrats! 50 lucifer is super impressive
how bad was it? I might want to try it
wintry berry
Special sometimes feels slow to explode or foes aren't in the special zone
If your foes are moving fast, you're gonna have some bad time chasing them
Dracons and wave makers made me lose my time
rain sedge
that's on any weapon I think
hmm cool, I might bust it out at 45 or something
you picked RI2 over JS3
is there any specific reason?
and JS1 over CP0
wintry berry
RI2 over JS3 bc I timed out often in Tartarus
or maybe I'm still not actually experienced
rain sedge
at 50 heat you're as experienced as anyone at lucifer 🙂
it's 1 heat behind the WR, which is done by retash
wintry berry
I tested JS2+CP1 and JS3+CP0 but TD3 timer rekt me
rain sedge
best I can try is 49 so I don't have to play with RI, will give it 2 tries or so
wintry berry
I think you can do 50 without RI, given your Eris experience
wintry berry
or EM4
rain sedge
and I'm trying to only play things I'm happy with, so
imagine playing EM4
if I can't do it at eris 50 with almost every boon I can want
I can't do it ever
is dio special good with lucifer? I got triple bomb
light stag
You're probably using a controller. Because on mouse + keyboard the ramping damage is nerfed since you can't dash and keep locking on the same target
wintry berry
No idea, bc I didn't have any attack boon until Styx
I don't imagine myself doing 50 without triple bomb, that's like charged skewer on GY
rain sedge
no attack boon, really?
I had to roll twice to get common zeus attack and now I can't roll
light stag
You can just lob balls and only use attack to detonate them
What did you use on your special?
wintry berry
Artemis on special
rain sedge
hmm
got to elysium
could win this run, had no rolls and had to sell an epic arty call tho
not ideal in terms of boon luck so far
rain sedge
49
any advice on greatshield and chariots?
first room greatshield has been very unfun
wintry berry
Throw bombs at where greatshields will attack
for chariots, I don't have any advice
wintry berry
Flash fire is safe
rain sedge
what exactly is this "starts firing 50% faster" thing?
halcyon flame
it means there's less delay inbetween pressing the "fire" button and it actually well, firing
rain sedge
well
30s into heroes fight
absolutely no free room whatsoever in the entire run
and pretty bad elysium RNG
sigh
otherwise woudl've been pretty free I think
bright mango
<@164508146746785792> I've noticed a couple of people putting Triple Shot second...
I like that better than triple as well
rain sedge
made it
what an absolute clown
1 free room or patty and I would've saved so much resources
and awful pool of purging with no roll
wintry berry
You're making a good progression, more than I
rain sedge
this run is so cursed
well
I didn't dodge the last phase laser correctly and PL instantly sent me to the house
but that's quite good I think. this weapon is good with triple bomb
midnight prairie
Why do people typically use for higher heat? Regenerating cast or 3x casts?
rain sedge
opinion varies
do whatever you're comfortable with
regenerating cast allows you to reduce the hermes boon pool by 1, and blocks out lightning rod
wintry berry
imo regenerating cast for non cast builds
vital grove
Bombs detonate for 100 damage each, base
shy plinth
Looking at high heat I don't think there's consensus on the cast stuff
vital grove
So if you have triple bomb and +100% special damage, that's about one billion damage.
shy plinth
Hadesprofessor uses regen, Tail uses 3 cast, and most others use RI3 lol
solar maple
if you aren't using a cast build it doesn't really matter
non-lodging cast builds go stygian
for lodging cast builds (or beo) go infernal
solar maple
I usually run stygian
mostly because it makes it easier to use rav will
but again, it doesn't really matter at all
High heat beo cast tier list: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778725540643340312/813097713146920998/Screen_Shot_2021-02-21_at_9.17.17_AM.png
rain sedge
I actually think rav will is easier with infernal, but then again my brain is smooth
hard to press cast every 3 seconds
solar maple
I was thinking about making a hammer tier list for beo but I would be disowned by the other beo players
solar maple
because I don't really like high heat charged shot
my favorite beo hammer is probably breaching rush for high heat
+200 damage per bull rush vs armor is so much
solar maple
nah bull rush is strong
it's like 100 damage with no boon
200 extra damage on the rush helps clear huge swarms of armored enemies so well
and to fight em4 with charge shot safely you actually have to be good at the game
compare how tailesque did his 50 heat em4 fight to my 54: He carefully dodged attacks with positioning and dashes, and found openings to send in busts of damage
I bull rushed back and forth in the corner of the map for 3 mins
rain sedge
died to asterius on the 49 lucifer
alright that's my 2 tries, was kinda fun
would've gotten it on the first try if I didn't have to spend my DD on TD3-ing heroes
solar maple
rip
bright mango
I bull rushed back and forth in the corner of the map for 3 mins
Ezwins
unique zephyr
TD3 isn't as bad as I thought so far
finished tartarus with 9 seconds left with suboptimal play
i just need to tighten up stuff and JS0 is WAY faster than JS2 it turns out
like wow
and tartarus is slower than asphodel for me always for some reason so this looks promising
bronze viper
Yeah, efficient Tartarus and elysium are the hardest bits. There are some bad final rooms in Styx but really any 2 sac should be fine
unique zephyr
what about 3
Is 3 sac usually fine but not always?
3 sac seems to be the most common for me
solar maple
3 sack is usually also fine
4 is where it gets really slow
and yeah generally tart is slow, aspho is fast, then ely is slow
waxen relic
I just lost a Hades fight, redid it to get my experience with it back and won with 2 acorn charges left 
solar maple
so you want to bank some time in aspho to use in ely
unique zephyr
Died to lernie, I really just didn't dodge well enough
need to find some way to reduce hard labor maybe
either that or just dodge better and get used to the timer
i had a minute 30 left when I got to lernie at least
Also nice Hades win, atticor!
bronze viper
You've got 2nd place "didn't actually get Seastorm Rama" though
bright mango
35 is the “highest”
dire steppe
ledger, I'm going to swing a run in your direction if I've got time tonight
gonna do chiron with special unbound
bronze viper
lmao
dire steppe
i'm not good with small bow tho so it might be a trainwreck
bronze viper
just get flurry + twin. ez
vital grove
Ugh I hate chaos shield so much
So many actions for so little damage even with rare doom, epic impending doom, poms in it
halcyon flame
it feels... kinda weak honestly
vital grove
It's like, I'd be doing more damage with the chef's kitchen knife.
unique zephyr
wow JS0 is SO FAST compared to JS2
I can see why everyone said TD3 is so much easier without jury summons now
so far the rooms end so much faster
halcyon flame
i mean you're literally fighting twice as many enemies on js2
halcyon flame
small brain moment\
unique zephyr
ah ok, +40% makes way more a difference than I thought still tho
solar maple
it's +40%
but yeah JS is the biggest time loss/heat of any pact
other than maybe RI1 or AP2 on some weapons
JS is what you take when timer and normal rooms are easy but bosses are hard
vital grove
I take it on chaos shield
Because it's slow as molasses
Doesn't help I'm a magnet for 4 and 5 sack
dire steppe
ah ok, +40% makes way more a difference than I thought still tho
the thing is, it's not +40% enemies per wave
it increases the number of waves
thats why it adds so much time
solar maple
I mean 40% is the difference between 4 mins and 5:40
so yeah a big difference for timer
dire steppe
you cant naively say that tho
solar maple
not quite true
dire steppe
i mean you can kill 5 enemies in less than 5x the time it takes to kill 1
solar maple
yeah it does make waves bigger
so it's not really 40% slower
more like 20-30% probably
and only for normal rooms
depending on weapon obviously
rama/beo will clear groups very well, while hestia might slow down with big groups
shy plinth
and tartarus is slower than asphodel for me always for some reason so this looks...
This is mostly because tartarus has 4 more chambers than asphodel 😉
dire steppe
asphodel is a 1 chamber biome
shop + chaos + miniboss + chamber + eurydice + fountain
shy plinth
It's like 3 chambers
You always hit the first one
Also barge should count as 2 chambers
solar maple
you can skip the first with chaos or than
unique zephyr
Starting to get the hang of TD3! Beat lernie with 54 seconds to spare, and came in with 2 minutes, hope talking about my progress is ok lol
dire steppe
asphodel is 0 chambers if you get than lol
shy plinth
Starting to get the hang of TD3! Beat lernie with 54 seconds to spare, and came ...
You're good man
Elysium will be tough as you learn
But it's still much better than where you were with js2
solar maple
good luck! elysium is the roughest on the timer for sure
having an extra min is nice
shy plinth
I usually try to target ~4 minutes per biome
shy plinth
Stupid helicopter meatloaf killing my runs
bright mango
I wasted like a whole minute on two greatshields
daring hedge
<@164508146746785792> I've noticed a couple of people putting Triple Shot second...
it's honestly hard for me to rank them because both have advantages at high heat; with triple's being obvious more damage if used correctly, but twin can sometimes allow for more damage versus certain enemies just by virtue of not having to shotgun every single time
more safe opportunities
shy plinth
If you saw both in tart which would you pick
Either with chamber 1 hammer or chamber 5 hammer with artie attack
shy plinth
And dying in Elysium is... a thing that happens lol
unique zephyr
i had 30 seconds left when I died, I just didnn't dodge
shy plinth
Are you on FO or HL5
daring hedge
Either with chamber 1 hammer or chamber 5 hammer with artie attack
chamber 1 hammer for sure
shy plinth
HL5 is rough
shy plinth
chamber 1 hammer for sure
I did not ask you a yes or no question mr fox
Twin or triple 😉
daring hedge
i didn't answer with a yes or a no mr. HAT
unique zephyr
I think I would die faster with FO1 and HL2 than HL5 currently
bc of muscle memory
shy plinth
Maybe
daring hedge
i've done both before, when offered both at the same time
shy plinth
Just whichever way the wind is blowing that day
unique zephyr
I do like how 32 heat is forcing me to get much better at the game
gives me an incentive to tighten up my play
EM4 is nice but just EM4 really only forces me to learn one fight
but this is keeping me engaged the whole way through
if that makes sense
daring hedge
high heat does change the feel of the whole run yeah
shy plinth
You just get used to it all over time
Like I'm not a great player but I'm at the point that when I want to play a run that doesn't feel challenging I run a 24
And it's very easy to remember a point for any of us where a 24 felt like it would be a big jump
Well maybe not Tail, he was running 120s
rain sedge
I enjoy the feeling of getting better, yeah
with each heat progression you can feel you get better at the game
which is nice
and then sometimes some people get to play 50 heat sword and only get hit by dad twice 🙃
and you realise you're not good
@daring hedge
vital grove
50 is pretty rough
shy plinth
You gotta recalibrate a bit Schad
Being worse than the literal best heat runner in the world is not bad
unique zephyr
even with my failed runs I feel like I'm getting further each time
and with TD3 saving more time each time
vital grove
The 2nd place is the first loser philosophy is kinda toxic tbh
unique zephyr
^
finished tartarus with almost a minute left
I thought I would never finish tartarus in under 5 minutes lol
or very rarely
vital grove
Styx can get silly with 4 or 5 sack tho
shy plinth
Sure I mean targets are missable
vital cave
Any tips on doing the 16 heat achievement? I'm kinda scared haha
shy plinth
Well done
shy plinth
Any tips on doing the 16 heat achievement? I'm kinda scared haha
The pins have a great guide for 32
What heat have you cleared so far
shy plinth
8 to 16 will feel significant, I might try just going one at a time
This is the progression I usually recommend
bronze viper
@true fable I do have mic now, and I was afk, back now
rain sedge
ledger strims
unique zephyr
So how do I not lose time to the great shields
They’re some of the most annoying elysium enemies
With Hestia I have to get behind them to damage them unless I have some way to pierce and hammers aren’t guaranteed
I specifically have trouble with elysium shield skeletons
shy plinth
They're a pain
When they hold their shields up dash through em and hit them in the back
But they are obnoxious
bright mango
They were what ruined my boonless 40
I’m just gonna use rama bcs I hate hestia’s terrible crowd control
vital cave
Done it first try. Thanks @shy plinth for the pact build! ^^
rain sedge
So how do I not lose time to the great shields
I still ask this question
shy plinth
Done it first try. Thanks <@145977230034599937> for the pact build! ^^
Grats!
wanton plover
does hestia struggle with td3? assuming js1 and cp1
north dove
close one with zeus shield, TD3 sucks :/ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/813149483889721374/unknown.png
plush scaffold
Gratz anyway! Might be a noob question, but is tooth better than acorn ? It seems to me acorn was way more damage mitigation
north dove
I think most people agree that tooth > acorn for EM4
plush scaffold
Sory, I forgot your game was stuck on EM4 Retrash ^_^
bright mango
Is it because of the deadline?
north dove
no, it's because of the phase 1 summons
north dove
didn't get offered any free rooms at all this run so it was mostly because of that
waxen relic
57 is in the Spreadsheet from him
rain sedge
Gratz anyway! Might be a noob question, but is tooth better than acorn ? It seem...
at high heat non EM4 yeah acorn I think
you can get some pretty unlucky summons that eat acorns, but it's quite unlikely and not worth gameplanning for
bright mango
I believe a hades spin at HL5 is 60 damage
Correct me if I’m wrong
Two hits and rip acorn
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/813160765473292338/unknown.png lived over a minute in overtime... I don't know how baj does it lol I think I'm gonna have to stick with TD2 for this aspect
shy gulch
are you doing 53 with zeus shield?
baj has just sold his soul to the altar of zeus which is why he can do things like this
pseudo girder
What's the recommended 32 heat setup for Demeter Fists?
shy gulch
have you looked at the pins? theres a good base for a pact setup there
personally i went zeus attack and DC2
you can also go merciful end
pseudo girder
Yeah, I've been using those
And I almost always go for Merciful End
I just want to hear other people's recommendations
shy plinth
Deadly reversal feels safer to me if you go ath on attack and dash
But it's not necessary and ME is way more damage
shy gulch
ME feels just straight up better
shy plinth
And you can get both
shy gulch
since with DR you still want athena spec and dash anyways
shy plinth
As far as pacts I mean you can just use the pinned 32 and go for DC over HL or something
If you're on FO1 you can actually do it with zero hard labor
Should be fairly free
pseudo girder
Wouldn't the ideal situation be both ME and DR?
shy plinth
Yes but the question is athena or ares on attack
Athena attack means fewer keepsakes and way more deflecting
Ares attack is a lot lot lot more damage once you get the duos going
But three gods vs two etc
Zeus attack on fists also really nice for room clear
pseudo girder
Attack - Ares
Special - Athena
Cast - Arti
pseudo girder
Arti Cast only used to get DR. Prefer Pressure Points for actual crits
shy gulch
since it lessens your chance of seeing ME
i would take PP if you get arty early, then true shot if you have ME already
pseudo girder
Fair enough
shy plinth
You're doing athena keepsake in tartarus anyway
So just a question of what you find naturally
shy gulch
yeah thats one strat
at 32 i think you can go ares start and hard build into ME but athena start into rolling with what u find is also great
shy plinth
Since you need athena on attack or special and also on dash I think it makes sense to take her keepsake first
She's the only one that really doesn't function without two core boons
shy gulch
that is one line of thinking but i think you really like the damage from ares attack early, and the poms you can get into it in tart are really useful too
you want as many poms in doom as possible
shy plinth
Yeah just a question of how much rng decides to mess with you
Single exit boon rooms can be cruel
shy gulch
for sure
shy plinth
But it's just a reset away anyway
shy gulch
i think either strat works fine regardless
but personally i dont like shooting for high roll builds for high heat, it just feels bad to me
so i went zeus attack
shy plinth
Yeah you just turn into a weird eris
pseudo girder
eris but without any idea what personal space is
shy plinth
I do not usually play eris with a lot of room between me and enemies
But yes the option is gone unless you end up with kinetic launcher
Or the big ol long knuckle
shy gulch
yeah zeus attack is always going to be a low roll build so you're gonna have low damage compared to other things at the end
but its good enough to win
so its fine
bright mango
I like merciful end
I’ve tried 32 fists once and i timed out to the heroes (i was going way too slow) but it felt pretty easy once merciful end was online @pseudo girder
shy gulch
the great thing about ME is that obviously you have ridiculous damage, but you also have athena dash so your safety is also pretty good
just need to get a bit lucky to get the build online early enough
bright mango
Yeah
The only really scary part was lernie
I was just taking way too much time that run
pseudo girder
Yeah
ME's damage is stupid good
I just die to stupid mistakes most of the time so it's inevitable I'll eventually have a good run one of these days.
pseudo girder
Problem: Making stupid mistakes on 32 heat
Solution: do more heat
I get the logic it just sounds weird lol
bright mango
Lol
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/813184114323750912/unknown.png talk about cutting it close LOL
bright mango
Ggs
north dove
I think I might hate this aspect
shy gulch
retrash does not vibe with the baj shield
true fable
LOL
wanton plover
lmao
true fable
now to see how @honest kernel feels about zag sword
wanton plover
wowzawoo em4
north dove
He started doing his laser attack when I was at 15 hp so I had to aphro call to iframe through it
rain sedge
palms are sweaty, mom's sphagetti, retrash is nutty
ah damnit I forgot call gives invul frame
wanton plover
perfectly calculated
rain sedge
would've saved that 49 lucifer run
true fable
if
i was just
a better player
i would have 50 heat nem
i dont even remember where i got hit
rain sedge
a lot of things could've happened if we're better players 😦
solemn pulsar
if
I was just
Tailesque
I would have 60 heat Rama
true fable
but i somehow lost 600 total HP
rain sedge
if I close my eyes
rain sedge
I can still see that 56 heat run with delta chamber
that I threw so hard at dad last phase
for absolutely no reason
imagine getting delta chamber and dying at dad
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/813186080504545280/preview1.mp4 you literally couldn't have had a closer finish
plush scaffold
You only gave me a small day of celebrity Retrash ^_^ GL for the following heats 🙂
north dove
Thank you! Not interested in going any further?
plush scaffold
My game can't select EM4 it seems, so probably not
shy gulch
its an unlockable through the house contractor
plush scaffold
Don't know if you counter my joke with another one, but twas a joke ^_^
shy gulch
oh LMAO nah i just missed it
plush scaffold
I'm just too bad for EM4, specially with 50+ heat
plush scaffold
dang we're double talking on twitch and discord, peak moment
shy gulch
truly a gamer moment
rain sedge
do you all buy the nail of talos (50% damage to armor) at high heat?
specifically on elysium where everything feels armored
rain sedge
100 gold you think is not worth?
true fable
thats kind of a lot of gold
rain sedge
hmmm
I think that kinda makes sense
I died on elysium anyway, super rusty
the bowman AI is just so hard to read
vital grove
I do sometimes it depends
Do I have a ton of gold, is CF2 on, is my dps fine
Bowmen are the worst
rain sedge
sometimes when you want to suicide to them they just don't attack you
otherwise they fake-pump the attack 3 times and mess your dodge timing
vital grove
Speeder bows are the best
It's like the projectiles don't even exist they just hit you
The only way I found to reliably not get shot by FO2 Speeder bows is to hide behind a pillar
rain sedge
I tried that but they strafe me
is the sword BP multiplicative with HL? how much more damage are they?
vital grove
I dunno, swords just do stupid damage if they're anywhere near
And spears have more range than they should
rain sedge
as in the BP, slugger, with the sword icon
solar maple
only time I really buy nail is when I'm going into a lernie fight and I'm scared of timer
which is pretty much never
bright mango
when i go into the lernie fight
Sounds right
rain sedge
I have about like
sub 50% winrate against lernie without skelly tooth
it's actually quite embarassing, maybe I should load up the boss and just continuously practice
I should look up how to make a practice save
bright mango
On the run i did this morning i left the fight with one health
solemn pulsar
Lernie hard on Eris
solar maple
and if you buy tooth for lernie you keep it for ely which is nice
rain sedge
cant tell if cgull is sarcastic or not
solemn pulsar
I’m serious
rain sedge
I think
solemn pulsar
Easy to get hit a ton with Eris on lernie
rain sedge
I should stop dash-striking on lernie at least
solemn pulsar
So much slower without though
rain sedge
and buffer pause
bright mango
I just put the shared suffering on everyone and then stand in a corner
rain sedge
the lack of tooth in elysium means at unlucky BP rooms my run just ends
whereas heroes feel more consistent on eris
if you got there, feels like my winrate goes up to like 70%
solar maple
with beo lernie is probably the boss I die on the least
especially on RI runs I die to meg more for sure
true fable
theyre dangerous
bronze viper
The only way I found to reliably not get shot by FO2 Speeder bows is to hide beh...
This happens to me all the time. It feels bad for there to not be a proactive way to deal with them but this is the only consistent counterplay I've found for speeder bowmen other than Athena/Poseidon's Aid
And if there's 2 on both sides of a wall "I guess I'll just die now. Thanks"
edgy arrow
furies are definitely the scariest boss on beo i swear
they’re best equipped to hit you between bull rushes and you sometimes have to fight them before you can make use of that sweet, sweet cast pom scaling to crunch bosses
fighting meg with nothing but lvl1 common pos cast is always a fun time
shy plinth
Furies are the hardest for good beo players
I would bet heroes on high FO are scary for people that are less experienced
edgy arrow
yeah i’m mostly fine with them now, but i definitely used to lose runs to them more often
bright mango
I hate furies
bright mango
Yeah
@edgy arrow you get to keep your seastorm rama record
35 heat seastorm rama but no seastorm
I give up
solar maple
what's the record right now?
bright mango
34 heat
edgy arrow
34 by me
bright mango
I don’t feel like attempting any more
I did one this morning
And didn’t get seastorm
edgy arrow
i was just trying to trick pengy into pushing more heat
solar maple
so the rules are just get sea storm? zeus and pos on special/attack in either order?
edgy arrow
but maybe seastorm rama is not the best build for that lol
edgy arrow
so the rules are just get sea storm? zeus and pos on special/attack in either or...
when i did it i forced pos attack first, because there’s more meme that way
solar maple
sounds good
edgy arrow
zeus attack first is actually kinda good
solar maple
I'll give a 40 heat run a go
solar maple
I've died on 50 a bunch of times though
solar maple
if I win it will be
edgy arrow
i believe
show those rama players what a beo player can do
not even Tail is powerful enough for seastorm rama
i mean, he did get the clear at 50 but he didn’t have the duo so it doesn’t count
solemn pulsar
It should count btw
edgy arrow
look
solemn pulsar
Not like not getting it made it any easier
edgy arrow
we can’t actually beat Tail
solemn pulsar
Lol technicalities are the only way forward
edgy arrow
i know
it’s really relaxing even when i’m dying
and i wasn’t even doing 50 for that long
can something be relaxing even when you lose 90% of the time?
probably not
wrong word maybe
bronze viper
Dying to timer on TD2 is so embarrassing lmao. Chiron yyyy
north dove
I feel you
unique zephyr
Bit the forced overtime bullet
it's not as bad as I thought
but I am having problems with benefit package numbskulls that shield each other
often that straight up kills me
Any tips on those benefit package numbskulls that send shields to each other?
I'm doing FO1 instead of TD3, so far FO1 feels much more manageable
once I get used to it
it'll be hard learning the bosses though
I got to Elysium with first FO1 attempt
edgy arrow
what aspect are you using?
edgy arrow
saviour numbskulls can absolutely be a pain for sure
unique zephyr
Hestia
I wonder how I can turn down the hard labor and keep 32 heat
But all the remaining options are yuck unless I do TD3 and FO1
Then it’ll be HL2 instead of HL5
HL2 sounds much less nasty though
north dove
If you're going to do that I'd bite the bullet and go straight to FO2, it'll help in the long run
unique zephyr
Huh that’s a good idea
It’ll take some getting used to but I believe I can do it
I wonder if FO2 HL2 is actually less nasty than FO1 HL5
But I want to do 40 eventually anyway
I’m hoping I can do 32 each weapon (not aspect)
Kinda scared for sword and spear lol, I barely use them
What do you mean about FO2 being better long term?
For 40+ heat you mean?
bronze viper
No, for experience
It takes by far (including EM4) the longest to get used to, it's just a matter of experience and iteration
Every enemy in the game pretty much requires a different set of timings and strategies with FO2
It's not undoable but you're kind of doing yourself a disservice by not biting the bullet now if you intend to proceed
unique zephyr
I have some bounties to collect so I’ll keep FO2 on even for bounty collecting now
To get experience
bronze viper
Yeah, that's the idea 😛
unique zephyr
I want it to be as “normal” as EM3 is to me now
Since EM3 feels standard to me now
Although I use acorn for EM3 lol
bright mango
I want to argue that not having seastorm still counts for the record but that would mean tailesque gets it and no one is going 50+ heat seastorm rama
unique zephyr
I died to timer last TD3 attempt
shy plinth
The good players are right that FO2 is worth getting used to
unique zephyr
In heroes fight
shy plinth
Well yeah it's your first day trying it
You will need quite a few reps getting used to either TD3 or FO1
Let alone both
solar maple
if you ever want to go to higher heat FO2 does become necessary
shy plinth
FO1 took me a couple weeks I think
unique zephyr
Ah right I do need to keep it in mind
halcyon flame
dealing with td3 requires a good build with very high damage output
solar maple
you can get away with FO1 on 40, but above that you need FO2
unique zephyr
FO2 requires no rng at least just muscle memory
solar maple
even FO1 at 40 is dubious
unique zephyr
I can see TD3 being screwed by styx
solar maple
yep. You can learn to handle FO1 pretty well
shy plinth
It's just reps
solar maple
it does take a bit to relearn the timings though
unique zephyr
If I get used to FO2 will FO1 seem easy if I ever want to do it for some reason
solar maple
it will seem slower than it does now for sure
to me FO2 feels a bit quick and FO1 seems a bit sluggish
solar maple
FO0 and I wonder if my game is lagging haha
halcyon flame
i should get around to practicing fo1 one day
unique zephyr
Btw I love beo shield so I’ll need tips on beo once I do 32 with it
halcyon flame
preferably not on 32 heat
edgy arrow
saviour numbskulls v. hestia is when you go into spray and pray mode
unique zephyr
I may attempt beo after clearing with Hestia
I’m kinda glad other people like Beowulf shield
I find it fun with Dio or aphro cast
edgy arrow
yeah lotta folks in here happy to give beo advice lol
solar maple
probably more than you'll want, but we'll give it
unique zephyr
Too much > too little and I love advice so too much isn’t possible for me 😛
halcyon flame
first of all: special is almost never a good option
unique zephyr
In casual play I just load up the casts and crash through
Special seems much weaker, is that why it’s not a good option
edgy arrow
first piece of advice: you should give poseidon’s cast a shot on beo
unique zephyr
I’m getting my butt kicked at 32 but I’m actually weirdly liking it
halcyon flame
it's slow and only works if you're building entirely around it anyway and even then it's still weak
edgy arrow
aphro and dio are both really strong, but flood flare is what’s generally used at 40+
unique zephyr
How much rng is TD3? I may try FO1 TD3
edgy arrow
the aoe is just really good, and it’s easy (relatively) access to mirage shot
unique zephyr
Either that or FO2 TD2
halcyon flame
trippy flare is my favourite
unique zephyr
TD2 feels so much easier than TD3
edgy arrow
trippy flare has probably the highest ceiling
just hard to realise that ceiling with AP/UC/CF etc.
unique zephyr
I’m not turning on AP for a long time
edgy arrow
good plan
unique zephyr
Approval process is pain
halcyon flame
trippy flare is already powerful and has an absurd level of upgradability to it
edgy arrow
AP bad
bright mango
I used aphro cast for my beo 32
edgy arrow
absolutely
bright mango
It worked really well
edgy arrow
RI1 is a massive pain
unique zephyr
I value dark foresight a lot
halcyon flame
you can get mirage shot, bad news, black out, high tolerance, scint feast ice wine literally so many good boons for trippy flare
edgy arrow
I value dark foresight a lot
man you’re great
unique zephyr
Also god’s pride
edgy arrow
so many folks new to heat pushing don’t value DF
unique zephyr
If that’s not sarcasm thank you 🙂
edgy arrow
no it’s legit
unique zephyr
When I tried RI1 I got way too many meta rooms
edgy arrow
DF is almost brokenly good
unique zephyr
Runs became bad
bright mango
I noticed i ginormous difference once i turned on DF
edgy arrow
and a lotta folks are just like “ehh it doesn’t do much”
halcyon flame
gods' legacy is probably better for cast builds since there's so many duos and legendaries you might wanna hunt for
bright mango
It does tho
unique zephyr
The thing about DF is it makes underworld customs less painful too
Since you get more boons
edgy arrow
gods' legacy is probably better for cast builds since there's so many duos and l...
thing is, you have zero chance of getting those duos if you aren’t getting gold laurels
poms are also crazy good on casts
bright mango
^^^
solar maple
would not recommend RI for beo until 54 heat. Maybe 53, but that's as low as I would go
edgy arrow
i’d take DF over god’s legacy any day on any build
halcyon flame
i mean gods' legacy is better than pride
unique zephyr
Rare isn’t enough better than common except for like greater reflex
That I’d skip out on DF
halcyon flame
not dark foresight 
solar maple
I run pride recently, but I'm going above 50 where I run shackle nonsense so I don't usually go for mirage. I haven't tested enough below to say for sure which one is better
shy plinth
God's legacy is better for Beo
solar maple
more recently I'm running RI so I don't get either 😦
edgy arrow
i mean gods' legacy is better than pride
oh sorry
halcyon flame
legacy is probably better for cast builds in general
edgy arrow
misinterpreted that
unique zephyr
I often find duos a decent amount of the time even with pride
edgy arrow
then pride is better
edgy arrow
maybe legacy is better on AP1?
unique zephyr
To decide between pride and legacy
halcyon flame
53 heat is the beo wr right?
unique zephyr
I’d like to hear everyone’s thoughts
solar maple
I've done 54
edgy arrow
imo it's not clear cut
do you have a direction you lean?
unique zephyr
Like what factors influence pride vs legacy
halcyon flame
shackle beo run 
edgy arrow
i’m not sure which i should be running after AP1 but before AP2
bright mango
Lmao in my seastorm rama run i was running pride and got zeus/poseidon like 6 times and didn’t get it. For any run that requires even 1 duo/leggy I’m running legacy
It helps a lot
I’ve realized
halcyon flame
pride may be better if you're only going for basically one or maybe two duos/legendaries
bright mango
It still screwed me over
halcyon flame
anymore than that and it's legacy all the way
solar maple
I value snow burst at about the same amount as mirage shot so I tend to go pride
since I don't even go for mirage if I have an attack out of tart
unique zephyr
AP and RI aren’t required at 40 right?
edgy arrow
that’s pretty fair
bright mango
No
solemn pulsar
i can quantitatively prove why legacy is "better", though obviously pride is still better when you dgaf about duos/legs
edgy arrow
snow burst good
bright mango
They are not
halcyon flame
i honestly don't value mirage shot that much on beo unless i'm actually running something other than trippy for once lmao
unique zephyr
i can quantitatively prove why legacy is "better", though obviously pride is sti...
You can dm it to me if it’s too long, I’m genuinely interested
bright mango
I used AP in my 40 Rama but I’m just dumb
solar maple
what is the proof cgull?
edgy arrow
i can quantitatively prove why legacy is "better", though obviously pride is sti...
okay do it
shy plinth
Lowrolling doesn't mean the choice was bad
edgy arrow
like, legit
unique zephyr
I read duo and legendary is 35% when you have pre reps
halcyon flame
i sometimes try to go for it but i might as well just get black out or bad news
unique zephyr
Without legacy
edgy arrow
if there’s math that can clear this up i wanna hear it
unique zephyr
And epic is normally 5%?
Not sure if the odds changed since the people got the data a year ago
bright mango
And epic is normally 5%?
I don’t believe that
I get epic’s way too much without pride
solemn pulsar
You can dm it to me if it’s too long, I’m genuinely interested
not that long, the basic idea is that you usually only want 1 boon from a god at a time, maybe 2. Many boons also don't care that much about rarity. So you have the extra epic odds, but it's only on the 1 slot you might get your boon in.
Legacy applies a buff to every single boon slot to see the boon you might want, so it's far more powerful
no actual math there, but that's the numbers-approach idea
bright mango
Pride adds +20
Sry meant without
solemn pulsar
basically i'm saying that legacy is better at getting you duos/legs than pride is at getting you the epic boon you want
solemn pulsar
^right but like i'm saying you only want 1 boon
solemn pulsar
it's quantitative thinking rather than qualitative
unique zephyr
Thing is for Hestia I want epic Artemis attack
solemn pulsar
it's not proof bc i dont have that much free time lol
edgy arrow
oh i see what you mean ig
solemn pulsar
Thing is for Hestia I want epic Artemis attack
artemis rarity is kinda bleh on attack, crit chance is the same
bright mango
Thing is for Hestia I want epic Artemis attack
Is hestia the weapon you are the most comfortable with?
unique zephyr
Is hestia the weapon you are the most comfortable with?
Well I am comfortable with that and Demeter fists
I like Hestia a lot
solar maple
some boons you care about have rarity matter quite a bit -- the difference between common and epic cast is 24 damage, which is quite a bit, especially x3 for 3 casts. Snow burst goes from 40 to 60 which is a big jump. Rav will is literally 3x as good at epic
unique zephyr
It clicks with me so far
edgy arrow
idk these days i’ve been running legacy with AP1 on beo at ~50
bright mango
Ok then go hestia lol
bright mango
Dont do dem fists
unique zephyr
I usually do best with dem fists but that’s low heat
I got to hades 2nd form with Hestia 32
So I’m close
Just need to practice more
And tweak pacts
bright mango
Yeah
edgy arrow
some boons you care about have rarity matter quite a bit -- the difference betwe...
rav will is a very good point
bright mango
Just keep trying
edgy arrow
but i honestly get snow burst/rav will only about as often as i score mirage shot
halcyon flame
divine strike + deadly flourish and then deadly reversal is a nice build for dem fists on high heat, it's what got me my first (and so far only) 32 heat fists clear
edgy arrow
since i’m not forcing dem
bright mango
divine strike + deadly flourish and then deadly reversal is a nice build for dem...
I personally like me
edgy arrow
maybe forcing dem is the way to go for extreme heats
solar maple
I force dem quite a bit on high heat
bright mango
Ur not using the special that often with dem fists
edgy arrow
if you’re likely to miss mirage anyway, maybe ignore deadly strike and go dem in aspho
halcyon flame
merciful end is great but you need to get several boons for it to actually be powerful
like i managed to get it once but the damage was so bad because i didn't get impending doom
solar maple
I force dem when I have athena attack almost 100% of the time
solar maple
I value snow burst EXTREMELY highly
unique zephyr
I’m not saying she’s not but I don’t know much
solemn pulsar
some boons you care about have rarity matter quite a bit -- the difference betwe...
not every cast. crush shot is 20 damage from common to epic, which is nothing when the first pom is like 50
edgy arrow
it is very very good
unique zephyr
Also I hate crystal beam
bright mango
What’s good about her
The chill
unique zephyr
Snow burst over Athena dash?
unique zephyr
Athena dash is my highest picked boon
bright mango
I had snowburst on my 32 beo and it was epic
solemn pulsar
chill good at high heat
unique zephyr
I do hope I can eventually get good without relying on Athena dash
edgy arrow
snow burst is definitely better than athena dash on beo
solar maple
if you have low lv cast honestly snow burst > mirage shot
edgy arrow
it’s so good
bright mango
It made the run legitimately easy
solar maple
like lv 2 cast snow burst is better
bright mango
Like it wasn’t even slightly hard
halcyon flame
is snow burst just demeter cast on beo?
edgy arrow
no
edgy arrow
snow burst is the aoe effect when you load
halcyon flame
oh that, yeah it's pretty good on beo
solar maple
you do 40-60 damage and chill in a large aoe
edgy arrow
pretty good? it’s top tier
solar maple
one of the best boons in the game
and rav will is also very good, especially when epic
unique zephyr
For beo or in general
bright mango
one of the best boons in the game
And one of the best weapon
edgy arrow
i’m much worse at using it on hera
i keep accidentally loading my casts when i’m just out of range
that’s user error tho
bright mango
I think it’s better on beo since beo is close range
solar maple
it was kind of funny to watch the tailesque 50 heat beo vod
he used snow burst like it was hera
bright mango
Does tailesque have a vod channel?
bright mango
He recently started streaming
halcyon flame
it's pretty cool to load casts mid-rush with snow burst and seeing big circles dealing high damage and applying chill in your wake
bright mango
I’m talking about previous vods
solar maple
old vods? I don't think so
bright mango
Ok
solar maple
only the youtube vids of successes
I will say, my opionion of snow burst has been inflated by my 54+ heat runs where you can't realistically get mirage
edgy arrow
that’s with DC2 as well
solar maple
and the fact that high level casts are hard to get on very high heat
yeah snow burst helps a ton with DC
unique zephyr
Is Aphrodite or artemis better for damage for Hestia attack? I’m doing Artemis
edgy arrow
arty does more damage
unique zephyr
And posing arty attack and taking crit stuff
bright mango
If ur struggling with 32 take aphrodite
unique zephyr
If ur struggling with 32 take aphrodite
Why do you say that?
bright mango
Weak
unique zephyr
I haven’t thought of aphro
halcyon flame
broken resolve is really nice too
bright mango
Artemis is really only ever better than aphrodite with hunters mark
unique zephyr
I’m scared of forced overtime asterius and hades
bright mango
Aphrodite is just more consistent
If you can get hunters mark than artemis is definitely better
halcyon flame
hunter's flare + heartbreak strike 
solar maple
^^ is actually pretty good
bright mango
Ooh
unique zephyr
I can usually get hunter’s mark in my runs
bright mango
Then it’s fine
solar maple
hunter's flare is nice because it has amazing duos to go to
bright mango
But aphrodite is still more consistent
solar maple
with athena attack, DR is great
bright mango
For hestia
halcyon flame
hunter's mark is a very commonly appearing boon
solar maple
with aphro attack, HR is nice
halcyon flame
and it just so happens to be one of the better boons
bright mango
The weak is very good
solar maple
and with pos call/dash mirage is fantastic
bright mango
Also artemis leggy
halcyon flame
isn't mirage really just a +30% damage increase on beo?
solar maple
arty leggo is pretty rare on beo
bright mango
I guess
solar maple
yeah it is "just" +30% damage
bright mango
Yeah it’s not worth getting the other boons
unique zephyr
I was asking about Hestia
shy plinth
I’m scared of forced overtime asterius and hades
It will kill you a bunch until it doesn't
solar maple
but keep in mind that multiplies with other bonuses
shy plinth
It's difficult and an adjustment
halcyon flame
yeah a multiplicative damage increase
unique zephyr
It will kill you a bunch until it doesn't
I do hope it will be worth it for going to 40+
Learning FO1
bright mango
I was asking about Hestia
Yeah i feel aphro is more consistent and better for a first clear
shy plinth
You'll need to learn it eventually
bronze viper
I’m scared of forced overtime asterius and hades
If you're having trouble with nerves when you play you can make saves if you're on PC in the boss chambers of Asterius/Heroes/Dad/anyone
solar maple
I mean arti attack is "just" 15% crit which is +30% expected damage
unique zephyr
I’ll keep FO1 on all the time then
bronze viper
So you can practice them at your leisure
unique zephyr
I am on pc how do I save in different slots
bronze viper
I know when I started playing I would panic for EM3 FO2 and I wouldn't really be able to get good practice in for timings for managing Asterius charges
bright mango
Just keep trying
bright mango
I know when I started playing I would panic for EM3 FO2 and I wouldn't really be...
Yeah they are so scary
shy plinth
My strategy when adjusting to FO1 was to dash into the third jump slam crater, get hit, and die
bright mango
@unique zephyr i would just suggest honestly to just play at 32. Eventually you will get a good run
shy plinth
I have since learned not to do that but it took a while
halcyon flame
you should also always use acorn at styx on 32 heat
bronze viper
I am on pc how do I save in different slots
So, first off backup your Hades save in Saved Games. When you enter any chamber, the save profile with the number you're on (so, if you're on Profile1, I'm referring to Profile1_Temp.sav) will be updated. Profile1.sav will only be updated upon entering the House again (including when you go back inside from the courtyard)
bright mango
My strategy when adjusting to FO1 was to dash into the third jump slam crater, g...
Very nice strategy
I too have used that countless times
bronze viper
So, when you enter the boss room, you can pause, and copy the ProfileX_Temp.sav to somewhere else, then rename it, e.g. to Profile2.sav. If you paste that into a save slot that has already been made (it can't be empty, just start a new game, go to House so it creates the save, then exit the game), then whenever you load, it will be in the room that the temp save was in.
The trick here is that since Profile1.sav (or any slot) is only updated in the House of Hades, if you Give Up, and then load that save again, it will always be in the room.
You can keep practicing indefinitely
bright mango
Freaking switch
bronze viper
lmao
Yeah it's a huge disadvantage for high heat play. Though some people like Tailesque have never bothered with temp saves, though they have already ascended to a different plane of existence
bright mango
Lmao
bronze viper
Especially for fights like EM4 FO2 HL5 DC2 superdad, where your life expectancy may be 20 seconds when you start learning. To not even speak of the next two phases
halcyon flame
em4 hl5 fo2 cp2 dc2 screw it might as well go 60 heat
bronze viper
I haven't used saves to practice since i started playing again this year, but they helped me a ton get over my nerves for FO2 EM3 and normal dad
wanton plover
i just used mods
bronze viper
It helps to have a backup to practice angles for juking Asterius for example
If you try this in a real run you're likely to eat 70 damage lmao
bronze viper
i just used mods
My save files are still nubile and modless :3
But yeah, if there's a mod that does it, do that, sounds way the f easier than save state management
(also RIP Switch still lmfao)
edgy arrow
i made a save for superdad once
then i messed up and now it’s a save for coming out of the blood pool after dying to superdad
bronze viper
the feel bads
bronze viper
I have outdated saves for Rama and Eris with nut builds on EM4 with all the fixins. Doesn't matter. Just instadie
edgy arrow
hmm
bronze viper
Need to make new ones for 1.37 I suppose
edgy arrow
have you heard of beowulf? 
bronze viper
Chaos is a ho and hasn't said the codeword for Beo yet lol
edgy arrow
oh oof
bronze viper
I'm like 200 runs in on this save
edgy arrow
yeah i’m still waiting on that for my hell mode save
i was speedrunning to unlock meg and beo so i can do 50+ stuff
got meg, no sign of beo yet
200 runs? oof
bronze viper
I'm fine with EM4 FO2 etc. with Chiron, Chaos, and presumably Hestia. though
edgy arrow
i might be waiting a while then
bronze viper
Coward pewpew
edgy arrow
i’m at like 30 now or something
bronze viper
My issue with Chiron is that it's very hard to kill Dad with any reasonable timer