I’VE NEVER SEEN STUFF LIKE THIS BEFORE
#h1-high-heat-strategies
solemn pulsar
speeder + warper FO2 chariots are AHAAA
halcyon flame
^^ also acorn is extremely good for hades, always use it
literally no matter what my build turns out to be acorn is always the mvp in the end allowing me to tank like 4 hits that easily would have ended me lol
true fable
One second I’m at 70 health the next second I’m dead
rooms like that are what the lucky tooth is for
solemn pulsar
should call it the unlucky tooth
halcyon flame
lucky tooth isn't even actually good at high heat smhsmshmshsdhsdh
bright mango
rooms like that are what the lucky tooth is for
I had acorn on
true fable
why isnt lucky tooth good at high heat? 
its one of the most common picks into elysium and into EM4 hades
acorn wont save you vs asterius miniboss or sneak summons
halcyon flame
it saves you from like
2 hits or something
you'd be getting more bang out of spearpoint or literally acorn
true fable
2 hits matter on high heat
again, it is one of the more popular choices for elysium and EM4
along with acorn
im not saying acorn is bad
but lucky tooth is better than youre giving it credit for
solemn pulsar
you can always switch to acorn for hades
daring hedge
lucky tooth can seriously save a run that would otherwise die in an unfortunate elysium chamber
solemn pulsar
extra DD also lets you tank one BIG hit potentially
like 1 HP and take a 100 HP hit dad swing
honest kernel
I can't even get out of tatarus most of the time on 40+ anymore big sad
time to grind 
I never practiced FO2 and that was the biggest miss steak
unique zephyr
Is God’s Pride or God’s Legacy preferred in high heats? I like duo boons but I love having epic boons rather than all common boons
honest kernel
I never thought about it to be honest
if you shoot for a build that wants a duo then get the one that gives duo
bronze viper
Neat. 40 Hera down, but it took 2 attempts :(. I apologize for not treating all of my bow children equally, this aspect is lit.
bronze viper
Access to Parting Shot, Smoldering Air, Low Tolerance w/ Aid, free weak application, AoE
Yeah, Crush Shot definitely has a learning curve. You can definitely miss lol
I'm not claiming to understand how to play this aspect, I just pewpewed and things died. It was very far from optimal. I'll probably give 45 a shot now.
honest kernel
I always played it w dio cast but thats prob unviable on higher heats bc you need the duo :(
bronze viper
Well also because it takes ages to get your burst back
bronze viper
I don't actually know how the aiming works. It's probably fine. Mirage Shot op
Oh, I forgot Heart Rend as another duo out from Crush Shot. You get a "free" Zag bow if you get Deadly Strike
honest kernel
#1
bronze viper
I'm on my third Hera run since like... Early Access when I played the aspect twice with Dio cast and hated it lol
But naturally I haven't seen Parting Shot yet
halcyon flame
i personally just... hate using hera
true fable
but hera seems fun
halcyon flame
i like all the other bow aspects and all the other cast build aspects but hera is just so bad for me to use
bronze viper
yeah the thing that excites me is that I'm a garbage fire and it still does work. I imagine this is a terror when you optimize
bronze viper
lmao, the good 'ol Triple crossed out Crust Shot start. ez game
halcyon flame
i imagine cast builds are just less viable on high heat mainly because of ap and ri
bronze viper
Hera is a 1 boon build and doesn't require hammers. Seems good
Idk though, I'm a newbie. Still trying to figure out to kill stuff good
halcyon flame
getting an adequate cast build requires a bit of luck to begin with
rain sedge
tail has a strat for chariots. I can't do it consistently, but it works often enough that I do it now
true fable
cast builds are tough as soon as you start fiddling with the RI and AP dials
rain sedge
chariots and greatshields are the 2 worst enemies in elysium
halcyon flame
beo probably works well with jury summons because of the aoe
if you get scint feast it may not even be a problem
true fable
or just start flood flare
halcyon flame
whenever i find myself sleeping on flood flare i just think of wave pounding
i oughta actually do a flood flare run one day lol
i did it the first time i used beo but it was very meh and i didn't even have an adequate understanding of builds at the time, i just took as many boons as i could
unique zephyr
I still need to finish 32
I’ve gotten close at least, so far I’m attempting Hestia bc that’s fun for me
I use Artemis attack on Hestia
bright mango
Good choice
Although really pick the weapon you are the most comfortable with
If that’s hestia go for it
true fable
hestia is bestia
shy gulch
hestia is bestia
rain sedge
hestia is... alright
true fable
ah the ERIS PLAYER speaks 🤮
shy gulch
🤢🤢🤢
unique zephyr
I like Demeter fists a lot but am scared of going up close at high heat
Also, how should I learn forced overtime? Should I have it on low heats or just slap it on my 32 set up
ripe crane
hestia is... alright
Excuse me
unique zephyr
I have no FO right now
And i can’t dodge FO1 hades from the few times I tried FO on very low heat
rain sedge
Excuse me
Crepes is backkk
this is all just a bait to get crepes to talk it's fine 🙂
okay Real Talk ™️
I don't want to hear any speedrunners diss my aspect again
my aspect is MANDATORY on your world cup
e x c u s e m e
it's categorically the best aspect
@true fable @shy gulch
halcyon flame
for 32 heat fists i went divine strike + deadly flourish demeter
safe AND powerful
unique zephyr
I can get to hades and styx right now with my current set up so I don’t think I need to adjust my set up
shy plinth
You will need FO if you want to go past 32
unique zephyr
Hades with stubborn is hard
halcyon flame
rama > eris
solemn pulsar
No one doesn’t think Eris is the best aspect
halcyon flame
can't convince me otherwise
solemn pulsar
People don’t like it bc it’s the best aspect
unique zephyr
You will need FO if you want to go past 32
Good to know, would I need FO1 or FO2 if I wanted to go to say 40
solemn pulsar
By too much of a margin
true fable
i feel like im gonna get a lot of mileage out of this image
unique zephyr
Hestia has a cool shot gun sound
halcyon flame
ok zeus user
true fable
schad youre different because you use it on high heat
ripe crane
^^^ Hestia noises are the main reason to play
true fable
you are actively handicapping yourself by not playing the superior rail
solemn pulsar
Eris past 50 is scary
true fable
good on you
solemn pulsar
So exposed
shy plinth
If you make shotgun sounds with your mouth while playing it, it's more likely to crit
That's why Hades needs mic access
halcyon flame
just get spread fire smhsmh
shy plinth
Man I have been baited so hard by taking the shotgun hammer on the shotgun
It just actually does nothing
rain sedge
you are actively handicapping yourself by not playing the superior rail
I'm gonna roll up the superior rail for some barrel roll now
gonna give it a couple tries
true fable
spread fire good
hardy linden
spread fire + hazard bomb
rain sedge
Eris past 50 is scary
FWIW the threshold is actually at 49
halcyon flame
it's actually such a shame spread fire doesn't work on hestia
rain sedge
49 = free ; 50 = actually requires thinking and planning
halcyon flame
how cool would it be to unload a massive blast of damage in a wide area oh wait no that's just the bomb
true fable
double barreled shotgun hestia would be something
daring hedge
49 = unsatisfying number, 50 = good number
rain sedge
49 = unsatisfying number, 50 = good number
this is the problem
if we're being real there's no way RI1 is 2 heat
I can take RI2 being 2 heat, but RI1 needs to be 3 heat
unique zephyr
Heightened security should be at least 2 heat imo
true fable
I can take RI2 being 2 heat, but RI1 needs to be 3 heat
maybe we are the real problem
unique zephyr
It’s way harder than say underworld customs
hardy linden
HS should be 3 heat
waxen relic
It's only one so that you don't take it
shy plinth
^
true fable
i never really understood that arg
shy plinth
If you make something crappy really valuable as far as a heat bargain, players feel compelled to take it
HS is not difficult so much as arbitrarily super punishing
shy plinth
Not equally
Yeah so EM4 is super valuable and players feel incentivized to learn it and play it
true fable
by that logic EM4 should be 2
shy plinth
EM4 is way more interactive than sometimes getting urned and dying in one shot
true fable
i see what youre saying
its just that heat values have always felt unnecessarily arbitrary to me
that being said
vital grove
HS should be 3 levels of +100% trap damage per level
true fable
i dont think theres much of a point talking about how much heat something should be worth
shy plinth
The system is very subtly designed to nudge people towards general directions and away from others
true fable
I can see that for newer players yeah
they never intended it to be common to go above 50
shy gulch
AP should be worth 1 billion heat
vital grove
Are we sure heat is finalized?
shy plinth
Yes
rain sedge
HS is a bad heat at low heat, but I'd take that any day at high heat
true fable
same
rain sedge
once you get used to it, it really only matters at lernie
shy plinth
And it's kind of cool to hear new players look at the pact and talk about what they think is good
rain sedge
90% of the time anyway
shy plinth
And then hear people saying "oh yeah no healing at all is the way to go"
It's a mind-blowing moment
vital grove
HS matters a lot in em4
shy plinth
People used to 10 heat or whatever probably have darkness healing on and rely on giant healing chunks after bosses
solemn pulsar
People used to 10 heat or whatever probably have darkness healing on and rely on...
Yeah they’re called FOUNTAINS
I never understood the dark regeneration people
There’s ALREADY a big heal right there
And if you’re pushing heat for bounties you’re not getting darkness anyway
waxen relic
i think it's darkness is for Wells, troves and shops to get healing more often
that said i never put darkness in it
shy gulch
I used to do it back when I was more casual because fountains rarely fully healed, I’d always end up near 2/3 ish
rain sedge
idk I feel like if you're at the heat where you're playing EM4, once you get caught in the urn, you lose that SD anyway
shy gulch
with dark regen that became full
vital grove
I haven't used darkness more than once for the fated list
rain sedge
but what do I know, no one here knows jack about EM4 at high heat except retrash
and maybe tail
unique zephyr
How bad is FO1 to learn
shy plinth
I never understood the dark regeneration people
I always went for heal 3 per room
unique zephyr
especially for EM3
shy plinth
@unique zephyr you'll die a bunch
honest kernel
fo1 wasnt a big jump to me
shy plinth
Do it anyway
true fable
dark regen is better for clears before you turn on LC
rain sedge
you do get that cute EM3 miniboss with FO1....
true fable
its just not really good for speed
rain sedge
that's about the only thing that's really hard
true fable
it effectively doubles your chance of finding a healing trove
shy plinth
@true fable I found the 3 healing a lot better for styx and chaos gates
rain sedge
but FO1 is a great value 3 heat to learn
true fable
yeah thats fair
shy plinth
Darkness healing is better if you've already gotten bounties
true fable
its a trade off
shy plinth
But if you're not getting purps from bosses
unique zephyr
I like chtonic vitality in styx
true fable
ive always used chthonic
i just know tail and nyaanyaa both rate dark regen
and i can see why theyd rec it
its good
bright mango
I like dark regen for normal runs
true fable
the way i see it, dark regen is probably way more raw healing in a run
just not necessarily when you need it most
its not distributed evenly at all
on the other hand, chthonic vitality is going to be even just by the virtue of it
bright mango
Do you know when my 40 run would be posted on the spreadsheet? I submitted it yesterday
true fable
reminds me of schad in his early days
vital grove
Use your phone to record
bright mango
Use your phone to record
Maybe
What tips do y’all have for 50?
I tried it and died to the furies
Its a freaking nightmare
bright mango
Just everything becomes so much scarier
true fable
yup
bright mango
Numbskull and lout rooms are the worst
true fable
RI2?
bright mango
No
Ri1
Should i do ri2?
I’ve decided
This is all I’m going to do now until i get my first 50
Just nonstop 50 heat
rain sedge
what aspect?
true fable
are you AP2 then(
rain sedge
you should ask actual qualified rama players for this
bright mango
are you AP2 then(
Yes
rain sedge
hestia
daring hedge
probably hestia
bronze viper
Hestia or Rama if I had to guess
bright mango
Problem is numbskull rooms
bronze viper
Rama cares the least about pacts, Hestia cares the least about actual Hades being played
bright mango
Wtf am i supposed to do about those
daring hedge
use your rail like a regular rail
bronze viper
pewpwe
rain sedge
use the environment
bronze viper
just as a heads up. there are 2ish difficulty spikes, one at 45-46 and one at 50
rain sedge
use special, use traps, destroy pillars
bronze viper
You may want to start at 45-46 lol
daring hedge
are you running TD3 or 2 pengy
rain sedge
anything you can to destroy enemies basically
bright mango
are you running TD3 or 2 pengy
Td2
daring hedge
you could probably swap in TD3 and downgrade AP2 to 1
rama wants those good hammers
rain sedge
they stopped making imgur preview in this channel
bronze viper
Lmao but why though
bright mango
Too bad I’m not in hell mode
bright mango
I also had js2 and cp on
rain sedge
people were... sending inappropriate pictures in other channels? and they had to stop the preview?
can totally see that happening
bronze viper
Yeah that sounds like a thing that could trivially happen
vital grove
My experience with 46 hestia is it's surprisingly not that hard
daring hedge
kind of true overall
vital grove
Because hestia
bronze viper
I really recommend doing 45 first lol. What 45 is is basically the threshold at which you can play the game as hard as possible (minus EM4) with all of the consistency available to you
daring hedge
since heat climbing can feel very exponential in terms of difficulty
rain sedge
I mean, 46 hestia is what
daring hedge
45 is a lot more doable than 50
rain sedge
RI0 AP0?
bright mango
And considering that i first tried 40, 45 wouldn’t be as difficult
rain sedge
that doesn't even necessitate any gameplay change from 40
just get better at 40, and you'll get 46 hestia
bright mango
Although I’m pretty sure my 40 was a fluke
rain sedge
whereas doing 50 requires you to change your mentality about the game
bright mango
Someday I’ll get that 50
bronze viper
If you can't easily clear 45 with good consistency 50 will just make you quit the game
bright mango
But for now 45 will have to do
daring hedge
yeah hestia is basically don't take DC and run around doing huge damage. it gets more complicated beyond 50 where you really need to be good with using all of hestia
bronze viper
Define good
daring hedge
yep
bronze viper
I think it's great at 45
bright mango
I’ll just try all of them
vital grove
I had ri1 ap2
daring hedge
slap on deadly flourish and fish for those special hammers
bronze viper
Or commit yourself to Thunder Flourish for absolutely arbitrary reasons and watch superdad not die by fractions of a health bar and wonder "huh where could I have found that damage from"
rain sedge
feelsbadman
I mean if I can attempt to be helpful here
if your goal is to ultimately get 50 heat
then doing 45 heat on the aspect you want to do it on would be helpful yeah
but it'll be even more helpful to get 40 on all weapons
because it'll improve your understanding of the game
rain sedge
I said weapons not aspects, I feel like 6x40 is reasonable
bright mango
Yeah i think I’ll do 40 on spear and rail next
rain sedge
there are things that I just never knew exist when I play on eris
vital grove
Hestia has a straightforward 40
rain sedge
what's your previous 40 clears pengy?
bronze viper
:3 Unfluke it
bright mango
Hestia felt easy until speedy chariots
true fable
i think even doing more 40 rama
bright mango
What’s the best spear aspect for 40?
bronze viper
I don't think there's a big difference between 40 and 45. At least comparable to most heat jumps
rain sedge
I'm gonna do a bit of an actual Real Talk ™️ here
daring hedge
What’s the best spear aspect for 40?
hades :)
daring hedge
haha who would say that
gaunt fiber
What’s the best spear aspect for 40?
Guan Yu :)
rain sedge
if you've only done 40 heat once, it'll be hard for you to do the jump to 50, or even 45
bronze viper
(or honestly even 40)
true fable
tbf
rain sedge
what you call "fluke" is actually probably closer to "the right combination of BP, enemies, rooms, boons that allowed you to clear"
true fable
playing hades spear made tail the high heat legend he is now
maybe playing bad aspects is good training
bronze viper
shots fired
bright mango
Lmao
daring hedge
rain sedge
and try on more weapons so that you cover your bases and improve your understanding
true fable
i agree schad
rain sedge
and understand enemy movement/BP combos/etc
bright mango
The 40 run wasn’t bad until the dad fight
bronze viper
Yeah, like I said before. In my personal opinion it's a complete waste of time to do 50 until you can comfortably (and I mean, finish it and think "I didn't even need x, y, or z") complete 45
rain sedge
but from what I've seen, you're generally a good self improver, so probably you already know this
true fable
then again ive done 24x40 and 6x45 and im still not really a notable high heat player
bronze viper
Because past 45 the game doesn't just get harder, you also get dramatically less per run.
true fable
so maybe just going for it is the way to go
rain sedge
wait
you've done 6x45?
MAYBE I should do 6x45
that seems reasonable compared to 6x50
bronze viper
45 Stygius makes my skin crawl just thinking about it
rain sedge
45 is a pretty looking number, somewhat
I'm gonna seed flurry slash, put zeus attack on it, and pretend I'm on rail
bronze viper
I give on Hera 45 for now. My RNG ran out and the game actually expected me to perform relevant game actions.
Someone pick my next aspect
bright mango
I’m over here dying with hestia 40 and tailesque over here doing seastorm rama at 50 and almost winning
vital grove
Did you try Phalanx Hera
rain sedge
doesnt cast weapon get ugly at above 40
daring hedge
high heat hera with AP is obnoxious
bronze viper
I’m over here dying with hestia 40 and tailesque over here doing seastorm rama a...
He did boonless 50 lmao
rain sedge
or so I hear
daring hedge
I’m over here dying with hestia 40 and tailesque over here doing seastorm rama a...
but i did win
just without the actual sea storm
vital grove
Tail did you the doom special Rama?
daring hedge
same core boons though
bright mango
Oh right
shy plinth
Yeah he went the whole run without sea-ing it
daring hedge
Tail did you the doom special Rama?
not yet lol
bright mango
Yeah like how
vital grove
🔫😑
bronze viper
It's also not very useful to compare yourself to other people. You have different strengths, and your own learning curve.
daring hedge
He did boonless 50 lmao
51 :3
shy plinth
Also Tail is an even less useful comparison because he is not a human
He is a space fox
bright mango
Tru
shy plinth
Also I have now realized that whenever he gets poseidon going in his streams I am going to call it "wave dash"
Upset I did not think of this sooner
daring hedge
oh no that's too perfect
bronze viper
I can't believe that hasn't ever occurred to me
rain sedge
do people feel
that hestia
just doesn't autoaim correctly at lernie
or am I stupid
rain sedge
because the last 5 shots just went nowhere and I lost my run
bronze viper
Lernie? Nah, but I have such a hard time hitting Theseus in chariot lmao
true fable
^
daring hedge
tailesque actually hasnt done sea storm rama on 50
i did the harder version without the actual duo please
bronze viper
i did the harder version without the actual duo please
But you didn't get Sea Storm, so it doesn't count
daring hedge
true fable
you didnt have sea storm in your victory screen
shy plinth
Cat cam!?!?
daring hedge
schad i told you i don't have a webcam lol
bronze viper
Lol, Haelian developed new high heat technology
rain sedge
sir it's $10
rain sedge
I can amazon it to you literally right now
daring hedge
probably later bright
shy plinth
Webcams are much more than that in this day and age
bronze viper
He bought his from wish
daring hedge
if i did get one i would want it to be, you know, not terrible quality
true fable
hopefully we dont stream at the same time
true fable
i dont wanna have to choose between reading my chat and watching tailesque
daring hedge
oh when are you planning to stream bright i can try to stream outside of it
true fable
nah dont do that haha
twas a joke
my stream schedule is already "whenever no one in hades community is streaming"
lol
bronze viper
hmm, I guess I could knock hestia out of the way. If I fail at 40 I assume I'm kicked out of the club
daring hedge
lol
true fable
yeah thats correct ledger
i threw my first hestia 40 with 3 DDs vs dad
and was shunned for a few days
daring hedge
don't mess up or you'll be in high heat time out
bright mango
Hestia fail at 40. cringe. Definitely didn’t happen to me
vital grove
You'll be doing 16 heat for a month as penance.
true fable
high heat timeout would be such a funny concept
bronze viper
I'm strimming so there's proof of how much I don't play this aspect lmao
true fable
phoenix
you joke
but my punishment
was actually just to speedrun anyheat
pp laff
ledger did you put it in self promos?
i'd watch
bronze viper
i can post again sec
vital grove
Yeh do that
daring hedge
just get tempest strike :)
true fable
rip
vital grove
Epic hunter dash hestia is good
bronze viper
lol theoretically. NEver used dash strikes with Rail before though. So awk
vital grove
Ricochet too, blessed run
bright mango
Tail how do you triple shot rama shotgun without getting hit?
vital grove
Btw you can just shoot nimbskulls
daring hedge
be very familiar with enemy attack patterns and usually start charging after they whiff
bright mango
Aight
unique zephyr
Is it worth getting used to forced overtime 2 or just start getting used to FO1 first?
unique zephyr
I hear each require different muscle memory
vital grove
Just bite the Fo2 bullet.
unique zephyr
I shouldn’t feel bad if I die a lot at first right?
Even if I try fo2 at lower heats?
true fable
you should never feel bad for dying
its part of the process
retrash once said he had like below a 10% clear rate
rain sedge
10% only?
shy plinth
FO is a huge adjustment twice and FO2 will feel very very difficult if you jump to it from FO0
unique zephyr
Thanks! Hope it’s not weird to say Tailesque but I love your videos 🙂
rain sedge
lmfao
mine should be closer to 5%
@unique zephyr maybe get used to FO1 first, FO2 is kinda hard
I don't even turn FO2 on some fist 40s
vital grove
Ledg, sometimes you should try to special while you reload, it's nice free damage since it doesn't cost you an action
Helps clear for example mass numbskull since one special just wipes them
rain sedge
Ah ok, FO1 will at least clear up 3 points of heat
if you post your pact here we can help check it out
bronze viper
Oh for sure. I'm trying to derust. My brain imploded when I tried to reload special dash strike reload
shy plinth
70% is a lot of percents
true fable
its a pretty big number if i do say so myself
bronze viper
ezpz i had td2 I can practice single shots against numbskulls and take bad curses :3
vital grove
Ohh that sounds good.
unique zephyr
if you post your pact here we can help check it out
Ok I’ll post my pact hold on
bronze viper
oh i died. lmao i wasn't even looking at my health. okay, try hard pants on this time. let me set up the sound
bright mango
Y’all talking about dying makes me feel better about my deaths and that it’s not just my who dies 24/7
Dont take that the wrong way lol
bronze viper
okay, sound works. setting up a thing to block out background noise sec
rain sedge
interesting, I just threw a perfect boon chiron 45 run
hmm
maybe this 45 all weapons is less fun than I thought
bronze viper
lol things can go wrong at 45 😦
unique zephyr
Ok, I used the sticky to help me.
Here is my pact setting for the run I’m currently doing (am in styx taking a break for my body)
Hard Labor max [5] (unsure about this specifically how much hard labor)
Lasting Consequences max (using stubborn defiance, keeping for sure) [4]
Jury summons 2 (I don’t notice very much difference) [2]
Convenience Fee max (keeping for sure) [2]
Extreme Measures 3 (I’m comfortable up to EM3, I’m scared of what forced overtime will do to EM3 and Minotaur mini boss) [6]
Benefits Package 2 (I’ve gotten used to this) [5]
Middle Management [2] (I am used to the mini boss changes)
Underworld Customs (not a problem for me) [2]
Heightened Security (not worth it at all, I needed an extra point of heat for 32, all it really does is let me pop up stubborn faster) [1]
Tight Deadline 2 [3] (I’m very comfortable with TD2, I’ve done TD3 with no other heat factors once and barely made it (like 17 minutes or so? That was my fastest time))
So yeah if I add FO1 what can I change
I’m getting rid of HS lol
shy plinth
Get rid of HS and JS
unique zephyr
Why jury summons?
shy plinth
It's slow and HL5 is no joke
unique zephyr
I was thinking of toning down hard labor
shy plinth
Elysium sucks with 3 waves of HL stuff
You could do HL3 sure
Just remember that 40% more enemies is a lot to deal with in elysium and styx
unique zephyr
Would FO2 help a lot or make things too hard
shy plinth
It would be an enormous adjustment
unique zephyr
Ok I’ll add FO1
unique zephyr
Interesting to know
My clear averages are around 24 mins but not for high heat stuff
I rarely go sub 20 ever
shy plinth
That's a good thing to work on
unique zephyr
How do I work on consistent sub 20?
With TD3 and no other heat I got like 17 mins
17:30
I did it for the bounty
I was pausing and prioritizing shops
rain sedge
This is optimal
unique zephyr
And chaos
shy plinth
I'd recommend watching vods of people who normally go fast and rewatch specific acts and then compare yourself to them
And see where you're missing time, if you could pause more or dash more or position yourself better etc
rain sedge
I mean hat, JS2 isn't that bad, isn't it
true fable
prioritize free rooms
shy plinth
On TD2 it's fine? But HL5 JS2 seems kind of awkward
rain sedge
I mean I'd take TD3 but... if he's not used to it, then this pact looks fine
I know I know
shy plinth
It's fine yes
rain sedge
but yeah take the HS out
shy plinth
And I would take TD3
rain sedge
that thing will kill you
unique zephyr
By the way how do I not run out timer for killing myself for stubborn healing
Sometimes it takes some time
Which will suck for TD3
shy plinth
You can purposely get hit but once you get more comfortable with TD3 it isn't much of a problem
unique zephyr
TD2 is fine for me but not TD3
bright mango
Yeah JS is a nono
rain sedge
By the way how do I not run out timer for killing myself for stubborn healing
can you specify
unique zephyr
I underestimated jury summons
shy plinth
I mean JS1 is fine and TD2+JS2 is not the hugest deal
rain sedge
killing yourself in lava takes a couple seconds
shy plinth
Ah okay I see the problem
unique zephyr
In Elysium and Styx
shy plinth
You're taking JS2 and then you think you can't do td3 🙂
unique zephyr
Asphodel is fine
rain sedge
in elysium you can kill yourself with eggs
unique zephyr
Eggs?
rain sedge
you know the orange eggs? they respawn, they do 15 damage
unique zephyr
Oh those traps
rain sedge
yeah
in styx, you dont kill yourself in a lot of rooms
in general it's not a huge time loss
unique zephyr
I didn’t know eggs respawn
rain sedge
JS0 TD3 would be optimal tbh
unique zephyr
Good to know
rain sedge
what weapon is this?
dire steppe
15 damage? more like 75
rain sedge
aspect
unique zephyr
Good to know jury summons is NOT free heat lol
shy plinth
@unique zephyr try a lower heat run without JS and with TD3
Like take some stuff off
But see if you notice the difference
unique zephyr
I should put on FO1 right?
rain sedge
I think....
bright mango
Or keep trying different aspects
rain sedge
I mean....
shy plinth
If you want to try FO1 yes
rain sedge
I don't know whether it'll be faster for you to get used to FO1, or if you are already used to BP3 so you can keep it
unique zephyr
I’m thinking of also trying chiron
unique zephyr
Not sure how I’d change pact for chiron
dire steppe
bp3 huh
rain sedge
like BP2 is annoying in hestia more than any other aspect
dire steppe
get ready for slugger cloner linkers
rain sedge
there's the saviour, there's the cloner, there's the duplicate soul thing
not to mention seeking projectiles is more of a threat if you don't have a consistent way to destroy said projectiles
anyway, that's just me
unique zephyr
I have many bounties to collect still
So I can experiment for heat to collect some bounties still
unique zephyr
Second phase Hades
rain sedge
lmfao
unique zephyr
Like half of second phase
dire steppe
tempest strike is meta for hestia right
rain sedge
2 tries away
unique zephyr
After that I died in styx
shy plinth
@unique zephyr here, try my fun run pact - EM3 BP2 MM UC FO1 TD3
rain sedge
don't bother changing aspect
in fact don't do FO1
you clearly got BP2 under control
just delete HS, use JS0 TD3
you're so close
unique zephyr
Last time I died it was to a trap
true fable
i like BP2 TD3 CP2 JS3 DC2
unique zephyr
I wonder what I could do instead of HS
true fable
sometimes i just run it to test myself
daring hedge
amir grows stronger every time HS kills someone
rain sedge
i like BP2 TD3 CP2 JS3 DC2
m i s i n f o r m a t i o n
true fable
amir grows stronger every time HS kills someone
maybe he just works out a lot
solar maple
don't forget em4 in that pact bright
bright mango
true fable
the true test
bright mango
Best rama setup imo
true fable
wow pengy
rain sedge
I wonder what I could do instead of HS
let me set it up for you
bright mango
@unique zephyr
true fable
that looks like the highest heat sea storm rama tbh
i dont think anyones done it on a higher heat
smile
bright mango
Tail should’ve gotten it
daring hedge
true fable
oh yeah?
yeah he probably shouldve gotten it
tail you shoulda thought of that before you DIDNT get sea storm
daring hedge
truly it's MY fault for not finding boon
true fable
pengy did it
bright mango
Lmao
true fable
anyway, congrats on the sea storm rama heat WR pengy!
daring hedge
shy plinth
Wait a minute
This is not the super soaker because it's a bow
I christen this run the super poker
bright mango
Epic
rain sedge
he hasn't got used to FO1
unique zephyr
use this pact, @ me when you got the clear in the next hour
I’m resting because muscle aching so it won’t be in the next hour
rain sedge
and he's gotten so close
unique zephyr
But I will get to you when I finish
rain sedge
so no point getting used to it
maybe for further clears
also pretty sure the maths works out that FO0 HL5 is less enemy DPS than FO1 HL3
rain sedge
you were playing on JS2
solar maple
TD3 is not scary with JS0
bronze viper
okay, stream should be good, and figured out buttons in base again lol
rain sedge
this is much faster with JS0
bright mango
Td3 makes everything easier
solar maple
well JS0 CP0 DC0 EM3
unique zephyr
Does jury summons really slow things down that much?
rain sedge
also you know about the taking free rooms thing right
solemn pulsar
unique zephyr
Is it shops and story rooms?
shy plinth
@unique zephyr it adds waves of summons
rain sedge
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/523774570394681344/812806420025049119/u...
can you @ him
bright mango
Yes it does
shy plinth
Like you know how you clear a room and then the circles appear
solar maple
JS is very slow
unique zephyr
Oh it adds waves
shy plinth
Yes
unique zephyr
It doesn’t make the waves bigger
shy plinth
You're waiting for entire spawns
solemn pulsar
can you @ him
i absolutely will not
unique zephyr
It adds more of them
bright mango
I don’t even have JS on in my 45 pact
unique zephyr
Holy wow
rain sedge
Is it shops and story rooms?
yeah, for now, "always" take shop, story rooms, chaos gate
true fable
ok lets talk about JS for a second
solar maple
JS, CP, and DC are all huge time losses
rain sedge
like there's subtlety to it but let's just use that as a rule now
also avoid trials
you're on hestia, what boon do you even want
shy plinth
Sure footing
solemn pulsar
thunda dash
unique zephyr
I do need enough boons for underworld customs
bright mango
Dc isnt bad on rama
true fable
simplification is fine as long as its not misinformation imo
shy plinth
Trials cost time and life
solar maple
you'll get a feel for when you can skip shops/take trials after playing with td3 for a while
true fable
there is a reason why JS3 waves are insane
shy plinth
Also don't take trials in elysium
true fable
they are both neverending and abnormally large
rain sedge
imagine rolling up to elysium
on your 56 heat
and there it is
an athena/something trial
so tempting
you can imagine that extra DD
true fable
i still take the other room if i dont have an athena core
unique zephyr
I thought jury summons increased the size of the waves by the percent listed but kept the number of waves the same
rain sedge
and you roll up into athena spawning 10 waves of greatshields/chariots/unarmored swordmans
solar maple
I take elysium athena trials somewhat frequently on 50+ heat
unique zephyr
Very very good to know
rain sedge
and you wasted 1.5 mins on it
true fable
elysium trials can sometimes be faster IGT than the other room
rain sedge
and she rewards you with bronze skin
unique zephyr
I was waiting so long for spawns
rain sedge
and you die to TD3 with theseus pretending like he did even anything in the fight
unique zephyr
I thought it was just the game not JS lol
solemn pulsar
that's fine
true fable
I thought jury summons increased the size of the waves by the percent listed but...
here is the way it works. the number of spawns per wave are increased very marginally. the total room difficulty value is increased by a percentage, and enemies spawn until they hit that value.
bright mango
I had js2 on as well
true fable
the number of spawns per wave are increased, however marginally
bright mango
I was too scared to take em3
true fable
so its not technically correct to say that JS doesnt increase the number of enemy spawns per wave
solar maple
BP2 and TD3 and EM3 all better than CP2 imo
unique zephyr
maybe for further clears
I will get used to FO1 later just because I may want to try 40 someday
rain sedge
yeah FO1 is mandatory for 40
true fable
full math and code breakdown is in the #speedtech channel of the speedrunning discord
rain sedge
unless you're playing arthur and you just want to get it done and bust out the RI2 AP1
rain sedge
I was d e s p e r a t e
rain sedge
ok @unique zephyr , I think that's all the info you need from this channel
let us know when you got it
bright mango
Also have AP on
rain sedge
pinned message gives details on small stuff if you need it, but you're very close
good luck!
bright mango
^^^
true fable
^^
unique zephyr
let us know when you got it
I will, thank you very much for the pact set up! All I need to know is stubborn defiance stuff
rain sedge
oh you can suicide on troves too
unique zephyr
Since I’m still getting used to the minutiae of abusing stubborn
rain sedge
if you don't know that already
rain sedge
well
unique zephyr
Wait I can just leave
rain sedge
also
unique zephyr
Yeah all I need to know is minor stubborn defiance stuff and speeding up stuff
true fable
if there are no traps
unique zephyr
Like shaving in game time
rain sedge
zag never talks unless it's the last wave
true fable
sometimes he says get dead out of nowhere
unique zephyr
I was wondering how to tell it’s the last wave
true fable
a real gem of a line
unique zephyr
Does he always talk
true fable
"get dead"
solar maple
sometimes the last wave decides to be 6 waves long though
unique zephyr
On the last wave
true fable
no
rain sedge
but when he does, it's the last wave
....you're using fiery soul right?
hestia CP0?
surely
true fable
for than, you can tell its the last wave by if its the third wave
shy plinth
Oh yeah mirror review is a good idea isn't it
true fable
than encounters always have 3 waves
unique zephyr
Is that the one that full enemy HP extra damage
true fable
yerr
unique zephyr
I use that instead of backstab
true fable
its fine for hestia eris and beo
unique zephyr
Lemme give mirror set up
true fable
not sure what other weapons really want it
shy plinth
I could see the arthur argument
rain sedge
not sure what other weapons really want it
chiron?
unique zephyr
Yeah I usually do backstab for most weapons
true fable
why would chiron want fiery
rain sedge
surely hera
true fable
why would hera want it
shy plinth
I would think mostly hestia beo arthur
rain sedge
and the first attack is the only "attack" you'll get on 90% of enemies right
so the first arrow do more damage is good right
true fable
in tart maybe
rain sedge
I mean
shy plinth
I would not have expected eris
solar maple
I've forgotten to take off fiery so many times while running DC
rain sedge
you're not gonna backstab people on hera idk
true fable
eris its mostly the rocket bomb high roll hat
rain sedge
^
true fable
youre forgetting about parting shot stonks schad
solemn pulsar
also the arrow hits first
doesn't matter anyway, Fiery Presence only affects attack/special, not cast damage
true fable
yeah
rain sedge
did the speedrunners at HC do that once they know it's a rocket bomb seed?
solar maple
if cast hits first it would do nothing
rain sedge
ah big brains
solemn pulsar
pretty much everyone runs FP eris though
rain sedge
imagine being on first week
solemn pulsar
since your backstabs are like 0 extra damage
rain sedge
real talk tho I'm actually bummed you don't qualify
solar maple
backstab really doesn't do much anyway because rail attack base damage is meh
rain sedge
pretty much everyone runs FP eris though
imagine running backstab on eris
I wonder who will do that
and for what
true fable
true fable
maybe an ultrastupid pc player
solemn pulsar
look if you have a decent rationale for running then that's fine
true fable
its not even that rail base attack is low
solemn pulsar
but i imagine even landing 1 non rocket fiery special will out-do all of the backstab damage you get
the entire run
true fable
its that zeus attack cant backstab
true fable
whats the upside if zeus attack cant backstab
rain sedge
that mirror changes like 1% of the run
true fable
answer is there is none
rain sedge
also I like backstabbing fat enemies at tartarus when I have no boons
unique zephyr
Mirror (all maxed):
-Fiery Presence (because Hestia)
-Chthonic Vitality (doesn’t matter because LC4)
-Stubborn Defiance (LC4)
-Greater Reflex
-Boiling blood
-Unsure between Infernal and Stygian Soul, I only use casts to trigger boiling blood
-Deep Pockets
-Thick Skin
-Family Favorite
-Gods’ Pride (unsure between this and legacy)
-Fated Persuasion
true fable
true
unique zephyr
I’m unsure about gods pride vs legacy
rain sedge
we're missing the important one
solar maple
looks good!
unique zephyr
And infernal vs Stygian
rain sedge
where's the most important mirror
true fable
gods pride vs legacy is weapon/build/person dependent
solar maple
stygian is the usual take, but it doesn't really matter
shy plinth
Would probs pride for hestia
true fable
pride for hesty is good
solar maple
pride is the default, legacy if duos are very good for you
rain sedge
pride on hestia
unique zephyr
Ok I like having epic boons
true fable
^what pseudo said
rain sedge
@unique zephyr you're missing 1 mirror and that's the one that matters
unique zephyr
I go for arty on attack
shy plinth
Oh
true fable
yes epic boons are good
shy plinth
Dark foresight
unique zephyr
Which one
rain sedge
what do you put on your third bottom mirror
shy plinth
I assume DF is on
unique zephyr
Oh yeah I have DF
rain sedge
cool
unique zephyr
Ooops
rain sedge
because
solar maple
ok good
unique zephyr
I never do increased rare
true fable
DF appreciation gang
solar maple
DF >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rare chance
unique zephyr
Sorry it slipped my mind
rain sedge
it's fine, it's the most common mistake on mirrors
unique zephyr
The few times I tried RI1 I noticed lack of dark foresight badly
solar maple
I don't think I've even leveled up rare% on my mai account
true fable
then olympian favor is optimal
unique zephyr
Too many meta rooms without DF
true fable
yup
rain sedge
alright this is ideal
solar maple
DF is half the reason I say RI is a scam
rain sedge
you must be the most big brained first time 32 player that came here
unique zephyr
Thank you 🙂
true fable
df is 100% of the reason why i say RI is a scam
unique zephyr
What about rerolls
solar maple
nah rolls are also good
unique zephyr
DF hurts a lot more tho
shy plinth
They're all painful but DF is huge
true fable
^
rain sedge
not gonna argue about infernal vs stygian so do whatever you're comfortable with
unique zephyr
I’m not sure myself
solar maple
most people realize losing rolls is bad but DF is massive and harder to recognize
unique zephyr
I only tried Stygian because I want a cast inside for boiling
rain sedge
also just for the record I don't like this lightning rod hate meme that's been going around
I think it's one of the top duos
idk
wanton plover
the reload overtime cast still lodges
solar maple
rod is a pretty good boon
unique zephyr
I haven’t picked up lighting rod but I haven’t been offered much it either
What makes it good
rain sedge
it's passive damage
solar maple
it's just a good amount of damage
solar maple
a bit awkward on beo because you have to be more precise to pick up casts
rain sedge
and pew pew it throws lightning frequently on the entire map
speedrunners hate it for some reason
unique zephyr
My build plan is arty attack, Im not sure if Aphrodite special is good for heart rend
bright mango
Beo took me like two weeks to get used to
unique zephyr
I don’t use special on Hestia tho
solar maple
speedrunners are coming around to rod recently
bright mango
Now i love it
solar maple
several quite like it on spear
true fable
rod is fine
ive been one of the first rod apologists
in the speedrunning community
its free damage
rain sedge
"rod apologists"