h1-high-heat-strategies

[green citrus]

Ya'll too into this meme

looolll

[rain sedge]

IT'S NOT A MEME

[gaunt fiber]

Peach

you think delta is a meme?

[green citrus]

vs rocket bomb?

yes

[daring hedge]

i just took it for 50 because i didn't know any better

[rain sedge]

it changes the aspect

[green citrus]

lol

[gaunt fiber]

You have not seen Schad with a delta chamber

It's

I can't describe

[green citrus]

Imma turn around and see spread fire Eris

[gaunt fiber]

It's omega gaming

[rain sedge]

I did it until ashpodel today, it's very bad lol

quite funny tho

[shy gulch]

actually wriste is on a good pace rn i think

[gaunt fiber]

3 hours means like

2 serious tries?

[green citrus]

You could fit 3 techincally

[shy gulch]

yeah

[gaunt fiber]

yeah but not resets

[shy gulch]

you can fit 3 but it'd be tough

and youd have to not reset

[green citrus]

I think they just have to start within the 3 hours no?

[rain sedge]

this could be bad for brighto

[green citrus]

Or some of these don't have time to finish

[rain sedge]

wriste might beat bright's time

[gaunt fiber]

Bright is fine

dw

[rain sedge]

actually he definitely will

[green citrus]

yeah bright is in there I think

[rain sedge]

whoa the hubris

[shy gulch]

he will

i wouldnt say bright's def in

[rain sedge]

he just broke some urns and went to shop

ah.

[shy gulch]

looks like bablo, ananke, and wriste are gonna be ahead of him

[rain sedge]

this nemesis dps is massive

I forgot the epic chaos dash strike thing

[shy gulch]

is it?

it seems kinda average to me

[rain sedge]

yeah he got one

[shy gulch]

im not sure if he'll beat brights time

uh he will actually

[rain sedge]

yeah

a few seconds

[shy gulch]

yeah 10 seconds

[rain sedge]

who's the gamers going next week?

[shy gulch]

not sure

[green citrus]

Bablo kept his timer running I just noticed lol

[shy gulch]

i know webs and latt are

[green citrus]

I thought webs wasn't in?

[ripe crane]

Do they have to use the same three weapons?

[shy gulch]

wdym peach

nah crepes

they all have to start eris

but then whatever they want, so long as its 2 different weapons

cant use 2 aspects of the same wep

[green citrus]

They didn't say him for next week but i could be wrong

[shy gulch]

i'm pretty sure he's trying out but i could be wrong

[green citrus]

He said he might not on his stream the other day

[shy gulch]

oh interesting

[daring hedge]

mandatory eris stinky

[shy gulch]

i havent been able to catch his strims recently so i could be off then

[green citrus]

yeah that kept me out tbh lol

[shy gulch]

tbf i dont know anyone who would do anything aside from eris

besides like kate maybe if she liked 3 weps

[daring hedge]

no i know, not that it's unexpected

[shy gulch]

dunno

[daring hedge]

but like

eris zzzz

[shy gulch]

its a tad meh

bablo wanted to do lucifer i think actually

that wouldve been fun

[gaunt fiber]

Force GY so everyone loses

[shy gulch]

LUL

[daring hedge]

LOL

[green citrus]

Honestly woulda done Zag rail

[rain sedge]

wtf

I'm not astaos stop dissing my aspect 😦

ok time to get that second tub of ice cream

[daring hedge]

in a speedrun context schad

[rain sedge]

🍨

[daring hedge]

just because it's already so dominant

[shy gulch]

zag rail??????

[gaunt fiber]

what

[green citrus]

Personally I'd have ran dem fists, hera, and Arthur lol

[shy gulch]

interesting lineup

[green citrus]

I suck with rail, like frfr

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah but Eris is kinda free

Mastering it is not easy

[green citrus]

Comfort on a weapon makes a lot of difference in RTA

[gaunt fiber]

I guess

[agile obsidian]

Lightning go brrrr

[gaunt fiber]

Have you watched Lili, Pengy?

[agile obsidian]

Yep

[dire steppe]

eris = free 56

[shy gulch]

it does but i feel like eris is just stupid consistent and not diffciult to get decent with

[gaunt fiber]

^

This

[shy gulch]

and decent with eris is better than good with 90% of weapons

[gaunt fiber]

But some people just pushed it so far that it is impressive

[shy gulch]

like arthur LUL

[agile obsidian]

Lili knows the game tho(I’m pretty sure all speed runners do) and that’s what makes different then normal players

[rain sedge]

remind me if you're planning to push arthur heat @green citrus ?

[gaunt fiber]

Not only the game

[agile obsidian]

By game i meant like everything

[green citrus]

I already kinda have @rain sedge working on 50.

But beyond 50? idk lol

[rain sedge]

you think it's not possible?

[green citrus]

I think it's not fun

lol

[rain sedge]

I assume it deals with RI better than most

fair

[green citrus]

Yeah, I can do RI3 pretty easy

It's just rough with HS

[rain sedge]

?????

but your weapon cancels HS

am I stupid

[gaunt fiber]

haha

[green citrus]

It's easier said then done

Trust me

[rain sedge]

I trust you

I'm bad with arthur

[gaunt fiber]

Peach actually unbinded special

[rain sedge]

I think my 40 was with the big special hammer too

[gaunt fiber]

it does not exist

[green citrus]

The special animation is toxicly slow

like

[shy gulch]

man ananke is insane

[green citrus]

I get canceled out of it so much

[shy gulch]

man did 3 runs, all of them sub 53

the consistency is absurd

[green citrus]

Yeah he consistent af

[shy gulch]

bablo probably wouldve too if he wanted to

[green citrus]

I mean his Chaos run was sick lol

[shy gulch]

stupid sexy ananke

[green citrus]

One dash trying to get out of lava situations in lernie is just not optimal

I have to get a +dash hermes

And on AP2 it hard

Also one dash and dad pot one shot? Not fun lol

Soon as you turn on DC it's also disgustingly slow

You get stuck in the third swing animation too often to dash out of damage also.

[ripe crane]

Chiron is actually the worst weapon in the game

[rain sedge]

how far did you get

[shy gulch]

chiron stinky

[true fable]

chiron is TERRIBLE

[rain sedge]

hello mr brighto

[true fable]

hullo hullo

[rain sedge]

congrats (?) on 4th place

[shy gulch]

congrats on gaming

[rain sedge]

wriste snatched it last second for third place

was very close

[true fable]

tyty

[spring kettle]

Congrats Bright on 4th place

[bronze viper]

I find it difficult to measure delta chamber's value on Eris. Like relative to say the attack speed/ammo Hammer, how good is it?

[solemn pulsar]

the worse you are at timing your reloads, the better value delta chamber is

if you're really good at ammo/dash/reload management, delta is arguably a DPS loss

but if you're not perfect at it, it can fill that hole in your play and allow you to focus on movement

[bronze viper]

So it's more or less just quality of life.

[solemn pulsar]

i mean it's a bit of an oversimplification

it comes down to preference

especially for high heat

whichever you're more comfortable with is superior

the DPS difference more matters for speedrunning

[bronze viper]

Yeah

[sly remnant]

@true fable congrats on 4th. Knew you would put up a good time

[ripe crane]

33 or 34

[rain sedge]

much further than me

[shy gulch]

thats pretty far yeah

chiron still stinky tho

[bronze viper]

What are these numbers in reference to?

[true fable]

max heat attempts?

not sure

[honest kernel]

Chamber, I guess

[bronze viper]

Oh

[north dove]

couldn't watch the stream but congrats Bright

[true fable]

tyty

i appreciate it

[bronze viper]

Max heat chamber im guessing?

[honest kernel]

Good stuff bright

[shy gulch]

yeah it was chamber i assumed

[rain sedge]

these are chiron 50 attempts

[true fable]

really up in the air whether i actually make it in but its fun to participate anyhow

[rain sedge]

I tried it, found it to be impossible, and crepes tried it for me

[shy gulch]

yeah this HC is gonna be stacked

[rain sedge]

as crepes is a better player, he's gotten further

[shy gulch]

i think you have a good shot but we def dont know atm

[north dove]

yeah chiron is just an inferior zag bow

[rain sedge]

the numbers are how far we go in the attempts

[true fable]

yeah it really comes down to whether cgull beats me

[sly remnant]

Its close but there a chance

[true fable]

if cgull beats me i probably wont make it in

LOL

[solemn pulsar]

imagine if webs, museus, and vorime were running. would be shut out

I HAVE
TO TRY

[shy gulch]

that would be absurd yeah

the wingull.......

[solemn pulsar]

i mean JDN is pretty good too right?

don't hear from him much

[rain sedge]

I hate it when retrash makes statements like this and I can't dispute it because he'll slap some victory screens on me

[bronze viper]

I hope the Chiron hate catches on. Assuming there are more balance changes coming.

[shy gulch]

i havent seen JDN do 3 weps much but i know hes a rly good player so like

we'll see

[honest kernel]

Honestly could have tried a bit

If I had enough practice in eris

[shy gulch]

i genuinely think you only need like a couple of hours on eris and you'd be decent enough to do well

esp with your baseline of skill already

dont think i havent forgotten your like 8:05 w pos sword on a 3 sack in one of ur first attempts

that scarred me

[true fable]

yeah i think baj shoulda gone for it

[honest kernel]

Oh well

probs for the next one

[shy gulch]

prob

[true fable]

well chiron really is just inferior zag bow

so retrash is correct

[shy gulch]

hard agree

zag bow 😩

[true fable]

"oh boy i cant wait to tag my enemies and special for less dps than just attacking"

[shy gulch]

if only all zagspects were as cool as zag bow

[true fable]

hate that weapon

[bronze viper]

Chiron is trash. Burn it on the stake.

[shy gulch]

i really used to love chiron

i think schad has it wrong

the distinction from casual and pro

is if u like chiron

i became a Gamer™ once i stopped liking chiron

[bronze viper]

Chiron hates the troops.

[dire steppe]

i'm on record as hating chiron but i also suck

[bronze viper]

Lol I enjoy Chiron. I think it's very fun. Not at 50 heat but up to 47 it's great.

[dire steppe]

chiron isnt even good at 0 heat

time out without even turning TD on

[solemn pulsar]

my first 32 heat clear was on chiron

[true fable]

its fun but it also sucks doodoo buttcheeks

🙂

[solemn pulsar]

put some respect on its name

[true fable]

and is slow as a snail

[shy gulch]

hey same here cgull but i still hate it now

[dire steppe]

did you actually beat charon on max heat lol

[rain sedge]

2x spread fire followed by hazard bomb on my 56 erisx

[shy gulch]

he actually did

[rain sedge]

I mean

[shy gulch]

cgull is a gamer

[rain sedge]

what is this

[shy gulch]

hazard bomb is good

[rain sedge]

this is why high heat is so mentally draining tbh

[shy gulch]

just iframe it EZ

[solemn pulsar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/790729912163368991/794376292152770570/32_HEAT.png?width=1211&height=675

i give you, cgull's first big boy clear

why CP1? because nobody told me otherwise

[shy gulch]

the gamer frost flourish

i did cp1 a lot too yeah

[solemn pulsar]

turns out deleting FO2 is really useful

[honest kernel]

tmw non-maxed mirror

[bronze viper]

My first big boy clears were corrupted by old Chaos

[solemn pulsar]

i think i was probably savving up for Nyx quest

[bronze viper]

So it's relatively meaningless

[honest kernel]

Mine was with Achilles

Before the buffs

[solemn pulsar]

DDs with LC3 too, what a monster

cgull you cad

[shy gulch]

i think i had to switch to SD

i was struggling too much with DDs

im bad

[rain sedge]

not the worst 32 pacts I've seen

[solemn pulsar]

this was my second try at 32 heat, the first one was FO2 EM4...

this one went better

[shy gulch]

yeah honeslty its not too bad

ok

that is

LOL

[rain sedge]

I see a relentless concentrated with a chaos special

f r e e

[solemn pulsar]

hey relentless slows you tf down

[bronze viper]

That hammer combo excites my regions

[rain sedge]

this used to be a PG discord 😦

[solemn pulsar]

could be the face regions

exciting them into a nice smile

[rain sedge]

true, I need to repent to purge these impure thoughts

also

at least artemis is honest with me when she's about to screw me over with a trial

none of this "iTs nOt pErSoNaL" BS from athena

[agile obsidian]

Wut

[solar maple]

My first 32 heat wasn't the worst heat/mirror setup, but it definitely wasn't good. Somehow got it on the first try haha (then lost my next like 10 attempts lmao). 2 rolls gang
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/778725540643340312/810002927589785610/Screen_Shot_2021-02-12_at_8.20.13_PM.png

[agile obsidian]

Woo fo2 at 32

Wow

[solar maple]

I guess I just really hated HL and LC? not sure

[agile obsidian]

Yeah my first 32 i had hl and lc max

[true fable]

yall my first one had RI1 and AP1

it was wack af

[agile obsidian]

Jeez

[opal token]

I’ve been doing them all at FO2 Em3 with no HL, LC4. It works for me /shrug

Sometimes LC2 and DC2

2 aspects left haha

[dire steppe]

let me guess, one of them is chiron

i should change my name already

[opal token]

Nah, spear. Spear is not my friend.

[flat flicker]

can i have some ideas for shield builds for 20-30 heat range plz 😄 or is there a guide somewhere?

[shy plinth]

Artemis special/aphro attack zeus shield or flood shot/artemis attack beo

[flat flicker]

ty!

[opal token]

How crazy is it to sell Sweet nectar at Tartarus over Rupture for tidal dash?

It’s going to get me what like 3 extra poms maybe? I guess maybe 6-8 if you count Styx shop actually?

I kinda..don’t care

[shy plinth]

Selling it allows you to get sweet nectar again

You do not want that

And extra poms have value

Which weapon are you on

[opal token]

GY

32

[shy plinth]

Aren't you just funneling poms into your special

[opal token]

Attack bc serrated point only good hammer but yes lol

[shy plinth]

If you're funneling poms into a single damage source sweet nectar is really useful and doubly effective

Putting it back into the pool dilutes future pulls from both gods

And razor shoals is like... fine?

I don't know if you're on priv status or not, I would usually be on FF

[mossy zinc]

Charged Skewer > Serrated Point.

[shy plinth]

My guess would be only good hammer offered

[mossy zinc]

Oh.

Quick Spin and Massive Spin are also very good.

[opal token]

Yeah I think I could’ve taken Massive

But waiting till Elysium and praying for charged skewer sounds unpleasant

[shy plinth]

I mean serrated point is fine as long as you remember to keep your distance from asterius craters etc

Hades sweeps will be pretty tricky

[mossy zinc]

Sweet Nectar doesn't get you poms, it gets you HP.

[opal token]

? By selling it for gold?

[mossy zinc]

Oh I was thinking Premium Vintage. Don't mind me. Carry on.

Rupture DPS is good.

[shy plinth]

It's a good boon, don't get me wrong

[opal token]

GY spin not something I’m great with sadly

[shy plinth]

Just feels like tartarus sweet nectar with serrated point is a place where I'd really value the duo

You get to see so many pom doors and pom shops

And the attack poms are super valuable

[mossy zinc]

Sweet Nectar is a Lady Aphrodite boon, so you're evil if you sell it.

[shy plinth]

Yeah that's what I meant of course

[opal token]

Mmm tried to spin and died lol

[pulsar herald]

spin2die? doesn't sound right

[gaunt fiber]

Hey, evil is a bit too much.

[mossy zinc]

That's just how it is.

[vital grove]

I'd sell it to buy more Chief God Zeus boons

[gaunt fiber]

Well that is definitely evil

[vital grove]

Heresy

[halcyon flame]

exclusive access > sweet nectar

come on yall know dionysus is the superior olympian

[rain sedge]

https://imgur.com/a/lDtEmHU

you think I'll outlast the TD or nah

those unarmored greatsword rooms took about 1+ minutes tbh

[vital grove]

Swords are such weeners

[halcyon flame]

remind me never to piss of athena on 32 heat with td3 in elysium

that one encounter took me 2 minutes

[bronze viper]

TD3 Trials are pretty spooky in general

[halcyon flame]

hera is the best bow for speedrunning right?

[ripe crane]

Elyseum trials are definitely faster than rooms at some point

[solemn pulsar]

but you could be choosing them over a thanatos (if you haven't seen him yet) or a fountain room

so it's a bit of a balancing act

[vital grove]

But 2 boons is 2 boons

[solemn pulsar]

"here have urge to kill and common bronze skin"

[vital grove]

I think I had 4 boons to my name going into Elysium on my 46

Lol

[bronze viper]

The 46/45 runs I did yesterday are posted in the heat spreadsheet. Both were first attempt, and extremely clumsy, which was a reflection of my f it yolo attitude from getting beaten down by 50 heat for 2 hours and making it to Elysium once :3

[halcyon flame]

pissing off athena basically wasn't an option however because if i didn't it meant no fancy dd for me

[vital grove]

Athena wrath is polarizing

Sometimes she doesn't really affect the fight, other times she makes it last three times as long

[solemn pulsar]

wait i have a better one "here have nourished soul and afterparty at LC4"

[vital grove]

I wouldn't mind the after too terribly it's something to sell

But Nourished is literally the worst boon in the game in lc4

[bronze viper]

https://imgur.com/a/5Q3YzsJ

[agile obsidian]

I’ve heard that charged shot works pretty well on it

[vital grove]

I think it's Rama

Could be Zag bow if you find Flurry shot maybe I dunno

[solemn pulsar]

Rama and zag bow are very hammer reliant

[solar maple]

hera is the most popular for speedruns

[agile obsidian]

I like zag bow

[solemn pulsar]

Hera is consistent and can get mostly the same peaks

[agile obsidian]

For zag twin + flurry works right

[vital grove]

Yes

[solemn pulsar]

Most people don’t run single run bow, too. So it’s always in a multi weapon format, so consistency is key, ergo Hera

[agile obsidian]

I don’t know i tried one zag bow speedrunn and got a 4 sack tiny vermin

So haven’t really explored it much

[vital grove]

Twin shot perfect shot is also a good bit of damage

[agile obsidian]

Yeah twin shot is like a must

[solar maple]

triple is also good, but probably much worse for high heat

[agile obsidian]

I don’t really like flurry for some reason

[vital grove]

Triple is nice with point blank too

[bronze viper]

Are we talking about high heat or speed running?

[agile obsidian]

Twin plus power works better for me

[vital grove]

Speed

[bronze viper]

Ah

[agile obsidian]

Flurry doesnt feel right for me

[bronze viper]

I've found Triple to be extremely difficult to use on non-Rama

[vital grove]

It's Spear but more range

[bronze viper]

You have to be pretty much inside them

[ripe crane]

Finally got around to watching Hadesprofessor's 50 hestia speedrun. Definitely wr if he had killed Asterius/Theseus correctly. Big sad

[north dove]

he just got wr today lol https://youtu.be/L-JzT8FLLOE

[gaunt fiber]

Hestia bow

[amber pebble]

isnt that a pic of || ramas bow ||

[stiff aurora]

You don't need to use spoilers in here

And yes it is

[amber pebble]

I like to use the black outs whenever i can just in case someone clicks on this one

[solar maple]

just absolutely choked 52 heat beo on sub 17 pace

died to dad with a build easily strong enough to win

stepped on a pot right at the end 😦

10:37 elysium exit too. No 3 sack to keep patty and even I couldn't have messed that up

[mossy zinc]

You got there once, you can do it again.

[solar maple]

or if mirage shot wasn't always approval processed 🙃

only twice that run, so a bit below average it seems

[rain sedge]

This pain is familiar

1037 Elysium exit is a speedrun gold right?

At 52 heat?

[solar maple]

yeah easy 50 heat beo wr

[rain sedge]

Oh wait is this em4

[solar maple]

with 2 sack+ decent dad fight

yeah em4

well max difficulty dad fight pact lmao

[rain sedge]

Ah ok my timing will be skewed then

But that's really good

You can do it again for sure

That's gonna be beo heat WR

[solar maple]

that's the plan

Such a lucky run too

[rain sedge]

I wonder if bright or Tyler has something to say about that

[solar maple]

great free rooms, and natty athena and arti (didn't give attack though)

[rain sedge]

All I hear is barrel roll bait

Ap1 or ap2?

[solar maple]

AP1

pact is all but DC2, AP2 and no RI

[rain sedge]

Yea this is repeatable

Can be consistent

[solar maple]

RI0 AP1 and DC1

Timer not a huge issue usually unless I skip midshops

but this was great pace even for taking all of them

I had perfect boon pool (poseidon arti demeter athena)

I think you can do 53 with the same pact with DC2, but then timer is hard

beyond that the pact changes a ton. Probably RI2 at that point

special build or some garbage

[gaunt fiber]

I'm a special beo gamer

[solar maple]

disgusting

[gaunt fiber]

Ah.

[halcyon flame]

is this beo slander

[solemn pulsar]

high heat beo stinky

[halcyon flame]

SILENCE

THIS IS HERESY

[solar maple]

If you take AP2 or RI then high heat beo stinky

before that no

[sullen minnow]

Dumb question yall

High confidence / LC4

[solar maple]

I would not advise HC+LC4

[sullen minnow]

Once you’re under the threshold in those conditions, barring hammer healing shenanigans, you’re pretty much never getting above it again, right?

Just making sure I’m not missing anything

[solar maple]

you can get it back from patty buff but that's about it

[sullen minnow]

gotcha

Thx

[solar maple]

or getting a ton of max hp

[spring kettle]

When is it good to take high confidence?

[solar maple]

but please, do not take HC at high heat

[hardy linden]

when you have high confidence

[spring kettle]

On one hand damage boost, but yuo have to keep your hp high

[hardy linden]

to not get damaged

[sullen minnow]

Would it even matter though, considering high confidence and SD both operate off of %s?

[solar maple]

thick skin is +15hp per SD

which is big

[sullen minnow]

Yeah I’m gonna stop asking dumb questions. Thick skin it is, obvious answer is obvious

@spring kettle rama and hestia come to mind for HC for me

[solar maple]

it's a valid question, it just has a very easy answer haha

[sullen minnow]

not much else outside of that. HC seems to call for either massive dodge skill or weapons that can engage very safely, very consistently

[solar maple]

what it boils down to is that if you get hit a small enough amount of times for HC to be worth considering, you should probably be running DDs anyway

but I can't think of any (high heat) pact/weapon combo where LC4 DDs is the way to go haha

[sullen minnow]

in your opinion, is there any weapon/aspect favoritism for running full LC or not?

[spring kettle]

Yeah, it's meant more for speedrunners, and even then, sometimes they trade hp to get in more hits anyway

[solar maple]

weapons that boss better handle LC4 better

[sullen minnow]

Hmmmmmm

What would you say are the exceptional “boss”ing weapons?

[solar maple]

becuase with SDs usually normal rooms aren't too bad

I'm a beo shill so beo

but I did just die to hades sooooo

rip my wr 😦

[sullen minnow]

Ok. Beo on the table. Any others?

[solar maple]

hestia I think? pretty safe

rama is great

[sullen minnow]

Yeah good point

Hestia ❤️

Rama 💞

Usual suspects then

[solemn pulsar]

when to take HC on LC4: beowulf, so you can fiery presence and one shot witches with your dash attack

and brimstones

in tartarus

[sullen minnow]

Lol nice

I love Fiery Hestia for the same reason

Never tried it with beo

[solar maple]

fiery is the way to go unless you have to take DC on beo

and DC I wouldn't take until ~50 heat

[sullen minnow]

noted

Ty

[solar maple]

not sure what heat you're going for

[sullen minnow]

Just looking for ways to push things higher in general

I’m 3/6 overall right now with doing 32

Pulled off a 35 for the barrel roll challenge

Just looking to sharpen myself

Haven’t touched much true “high heat” ways and means of thinking so I figure it’s time to start learning what the deep end of the pool needs

[solar maple]

have you been doing DDs or SDs?

[sullen minnow]

Back and forth honestly

I’m having trouble gauging how to use LC

[solar maple]

both are viable for 32 so that makes sense

[sullen minnow]

It feels like I should have it at 100% or zero

[solar maple]

but for very high heat SDs are the only way to go tbh

[sullen minnow]

Because I’m not sure how to build around it in the middle

[sullen minnow]

Yeah I’ve seen that in practice for sure. Been trying to train myself on LC4 for that reason

[solar maple]

LC1/2 is fine, but with that you want heal from darkness on the mirror

to fully heal after boss fights

[sullen minnow]

gotcha

Do you find yourself building 32 very differently for different weapons/aspects? Or is there a base template you’ve grown comfy with?

[solar maple]

the pact changes a decent amount

I"m not the one to ask this though, I only play a few weapons, and I'm only good at beo LMAO

[sullen minnow]

32 feels like the threshold where I feel myself really needing to tailor everything around everything. Weapon, aspect, keepsake etc

[rain sedge]

pact preference at 32 is usually skill-dependent rather than aspect dependent, except for DC2

[sullen minnow]

But I know that feeling could also just be a skill gap in operation

Player skill, you mean?

[solar maple]

handling FO2 is a big one

[rain sedge]

first timers at 32 have FO1 or FO0 to make things easy, for example. More experienced players just play FO2 so they can do CF0 JS0 CP0 for speed

[sullen minnow]

Yeah FO2 has been a bumpy road for me

[rain sedge]

etc etc

[sullen minnow]

I’m adjusting slowly but it still catches me off guard. I need to keep calming my play down to accommodate the increased game speed

But I know it needs to stay on because of the ancillary benefits it provides

[solar maple]

shoutout to this being the first frame of dad's spear throw hitbox https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/787779476888354816/810228819021004800/Screen_Shot_2021-02-13_at_11.19.26_AM.png

[sullen minnow]

How is EM4 felt about in reference to TD3?

[solar maple]

105 damage :/

[sullen minnow]

Oof

[sullen minnow]

I feel like to hit 32 I need TD3 in there, and without FO2 to speed up the clock for me I’m too much of a scrub to consistently hit TD3 😭

[solar maple]

EM4 TD3 makes timer pretty tough if you don't go fast. Good on fast weapons for (very) high heat but many can't handle it I think

[rain sedge]

it depends on what you want

do you just want to do 32 on all weapons?

[sullen minnow]

Would winding FO back a step and focusing on clearing faster be a good thing to try?

[rain sedge]

then you don't have to worry for FO2

[sullen minnow]

My aim is to sharpen myself

[rain sedge]

fo you want to practice for 45+?

then yeah, practice FO2

[solar maple]

also would not EM4 for 32 heat except for a few weapons

[sullen minnow]

32ing things and beyond is just a goal to aim at to facilitate that

All goals are false in video games. The only true goal is progression and growth as a player

[rain sedge]

FO2 doesnt speed up the clock. That's speedrun mentality, and at high heat, those faster spawn times doesn't matter as much as your survival

if I'm you, I would keep FO2 always on to get used to the animation speed

[solar maple]

FO2 speeds it up in that you usually take it over a slow pact

[sullen minnow]

sorry, I was vague. By “clock” I mean animations and movement of enemies, resulting in an eSpeed boost

[rain sedge]

and practice on TD3 just to understand how to go quickly

[sullen minnow]

Aka what FO2 is supposed to do

[solar maple]

also I come from speedrunning so TD3 is natural for me

[rain sedge]

part of it is knowledge (take free rooms, get certain boons, etc) and part of it is practice and understanding of your aspect

basically, practice will make things go easier in the long run if your goal is to improve

[sullen minnow]

Indeed

Thank you for your guidance

I will keep grinding and sharpening myself

[rain sedge]

more advice is pinned if you want to take a look, good luck!

[sullen minnow]

👍🏻👍🏻

One last question to all. 32 may be a number that calls for fine-tuning, but is there perhaps a lower-heat template of things that you like to leave engaged pretty much always?

Pacts that add up to 20 heat as a bedrock to customize from, say?

[rain sedge]

yep, that's pinned

[sullen minnow]

ah, thank you

Away I go

[rain sedge]

core heat is 19 heat

[solar maple]

my "core" includes FO1 because I never play on FO0 so I take more damage there haha. So it varies player to player a bit

[rain sedge]

and TD3 I bet since you're a speedrun boi

[sullen minnow]

So judging by the way you built the core in the pin it seems I may be trying to clear 32 too quickly

[solar maple]

yeah I'm not sure the last time I turned off TD3 on high heat

I think I was even doing it for chaos shield

[sullen minnow]

TD2 opens a lot of options back up for me

[rain sedge]

my pinned guide is for first timers 🤷‍♀️

what's your heat setup?

[sullen minnow]

Having to run for speed and always take chaos and shops always made my heart hurt

Hmmmm I dont have it in front of me, but usually for 32+ I’m trying to lock in at least EM3, MM, BP2, FO2 and TD3

[solar maple]

TD2 lets you take "slow" pacts that don't make bosses harder if you struggle with EM3/dad is the main benefit IMO

[sullen minnow]

With a mix of the first 4 to compensate the diff

[solar maple]

like JS

[rain sedge]

that is indeed ideal for practice for higher heat

[sullen minnow]

Yeah, it has worked for me

But I feel like for my 2 weakest weapons I’m thrashing

Being sword and bow

[rain sedge]

I mean I'm a big proponent of turning on TD3 always. The only person that can have an excuse to not turn it on at high heat is retrash, and that's because he plays EM4

[shy plinth]

For those two weapons I have specific recommendations

[sullen minnow]

I’ve tried running nemesis the conventional way and gotten close

[rain sedge]

at that point the choice of timing out at TD3 is out of your skill

[shy plinth]

Watch Tail play Rama and watch Peach play Arthur

[rain sedge]

I mean....

[sullen minnow]

I’m sorry, sword and spear

I misspoke

[shy plinth]

Ah

[rain sedge]

or you could just play chiron and poseidon and call it a day

[sullen minnow]

Bow is EZ street for me

I did my 35 with zag

[rain sedge]

arthur rama is high skill weapons

[sullen minnow]

hmmmm

[solar maple]

yeah that makes sense. Bow tends to be pretty safe

[sullen minnow]

I can’t Arthur to save my life

I’ve largely left it on a shelf. Maybe I need to try it again

[solar maple]

I die in sword speedruns so I can't help you there lmao

[shy plinth]

It's hard but Peach has a ton of documentation on it

[rain sedge]

it helps that his brain is big too

[sullen minnow]

Yeah I can feel the speed and power in nemesis

But I just friggin die

[shy plinth]

Nemesis is so meh

[rain sedge]

small brainers like me just touch it for one clear and leave it off

[true fable]

general nemesis tips

[sullen minnow]

I feel less vulnerable with talos fists ffs

[solar maple]

bright I was so close to beo wr

[true fable]

do not autopilot it

[solar maple]

died to dad fight on sub 17 pace

[true fable]

i saw 😦

im sorry pseudo

especially for high heat nem, be mindful of where youre specialing

[rain sedge]

I mean that 105 damage spear throw

[sullen minnow]

Understood

[rain sedge]

is why I don't want to play EM4

[true fable]

dont do it somewhere thatll get you mega punished or if its not gonna actually hit things

[rain sedge]

and I dont know how retrash does it, with super unsafe weapons like nemesis

[solar maple]

also with nem remember that dash attacks remove invinsibility

[true fable]

also dont auto double dash strike

[shy plinth]

Retrash is something else

[rain sedge]

it's like

[solar maple]

so sometimes you have to late dash attack or empty dash

[rain sedge]

illegal

[sullen minnow]

Is this a nem/sword specific thing?

[rain sedge]

I still need to watch that chiron 50

[true fable]

what pseudo said

[solar maple]

no all weapons

[sullen minnow]

Or does dash striking universally strip I frames

[solar maple]

nem just dash attacks allot

[sullen minnow]

Ok

Completely? Or just a reduction?

[true fable]

no, so the way it works is you have i frames until the point you hit the strike on any weapon

[solar maple]

depends on when you do the attack

[sullen minnow]

ohhhhh

I see

[solar maple]

late dash attack still has some I frames

[true fable]

which is why late dash strikes on weapons like nem and GY with serrated are better

[solar maple]

but is slower

[sullen minnow]

So my crutch of inputting dash and attack is actually horrible

[true fable]

or can be better situationally

[sullen minnow]

Understood

[true fable]

yes

be mindful of when youre inputting them

[sullen minnow]

Thank you zag bow, very cool

[rain sedge]

so

I'm kinda

on a lernie fight

with 5 ( f i v e ) divine dashes and triple bomb

[sullen minnow]

lmao

[rain sedge]

I feel like if I lose this run I just don't deserve the clear

idk

I have seen bigger throws but not a lot

[sullen minnow]

I mean the tough love answer is yes

I’d tell myself the same thing

[solar maple]

I just saw a bigger throw 🙃

[sullen minnow]

Godspeed

[rain sedge]

I dont think dying on EM4 is ever a throw

[solar maple]

wrong

[sullen minnow]

Ah, fair

[true fable]

😦

did you have mirage

[sullen minnow]

EM4 takes a lot of bets off the table unless your name is retrash lol

[solar maple]

no mirage, but I had divine dash+DD

no excuse

[true fable]

eh

theres some excuses

[solar maple]

mirage got APed twice

[true fable]

happens to all of us mate

you'll get there

mirage wasnt even in the pool when i did 50

i had frost strike lol

[solar maple]

I had poseidon attack lmao

arti call

[true fable]

o boy

[rain sedge]

ok so

elysium

5 divine dash

acorn or skelly

[true fable]

56?

[rain sedge]

56 heat, 165 base HP

yeah

[true fable]

take skelly imo

tooth too good

[rain sedge]

you wanna avoid the greatshield BP RNG?

I do have a cute 5 divine dash for the final boss

[solar maple]

what is the opinion on tooth vs acorn for em4 btw?

[rain sedge]

alright sold

[true fable]

i wanna avoid the asterius miniboss rng

[solar maple]

assuming I don't lose tooth in elysium

[rain sedge]

I think retrash takes spearpoint? but he also plays on PL

[true fable]

i think tooth > spearpoint > acorn

[sullen minnow]

Should asterius be avoided for EM3?

[solar maple]

spearoint???

[true fable]

acorn is just so rng dependent

[rain sedge]

idk ask him he's the only one with valid opinion on high heat EM4

not acorn for sure

[true fable]

watch his fights pseudo

[sullen minnow]

I always thought you wanted to fight him to reduce his health for the main fight

[solar maple]

I took tooth, but took big hits to start

[true fable]

he uses it for free hits with certain summons

[solar maple]

hindsight acorn would be better, but not sure on average

[true fable]

like with doomstone you can be almost invincible with the right timing and experience if you have spearpoint

[solar maple]

doesn't spearpoint have a long CD?

I remember when it was nerfed

[rain sedge]

real quick speedrunners

triple bomb locks out hazard bomb yes?

[true fable]

7s i believe

yes

[rain sedge]

because I just took a hammer room and I keep getting screwed

alright thanks

[true fable]

youd have to ask retrash himself pseudo

i think everyone else uses tooth

[solar maple]

new plan: get a 2 sack to keep patty and just unga bunga it

[rain sedge]

https://imgur.com/a/HZtpbJi

i mean like

what is this

[solar maple]

lmao

[sullen minnow]

Lollllll

[solar maple]

just anvil nerd

[rain sedge]

I've seen more spread fire and hazard bomb than any other hammer in my runs

I'm not joking

like

60% of my hammers?

I started avoiding hammer rooms

[sullen minnow]

The game wants you to run zag rail

[rain sedge]

like this isn't funny

seriously

[sullen minnow]

I mean

[rain sedge]

it's actually really annoying and felt like a bad way to kill a run

I don't mind dying to normal stuff

[solar maple]

yeah hammers on AP2 are evil

[rain sedge]

but this kinda stuff just burns me out

sigh

[solar maple]

especially on sword/rail

[sullen minnow]

I wouldn’t complain too if the game force fed me shotgun zag rail lol, that’s a riot of a hammer

[rain sedge]

I'm on eris

and this is 56

[sullen minnow]

Rip

[solar maple]

do you start zeus keepsake and reset for attack?

[sullen minnow]

AP2 still showing the other 2 boons is cruel and should be patched out change my mind

[sly remnant]

I actually think if you have mirage shot on beo acorn is fine

Just kill the minibosses

[solar maple]

yeah I think acorn might be the way for beo

[rain sedge]

this but without the reset, I seed it

tiring to reset on AP2

[solar maple]

fair enough

[rain sedge]

it's basically just over 4x reset after you die

[sly remnant]

You are still praying for no sneak but no keepsake really is gonna save you from sneak

[solar maple]

I didn't have mirage, but I had enough damage to kill minibosses

4 casts + epic snow burst

[rain sedge]

lost tooth in greatshield chariot room

my god

why do I even grind this

[solar maple]

honestly I had more damage than a weak mirage shot build

[rain sedge]

alright I'm done

just got spawned another greatshield room and died

[solar maple]

what is your 56 pact btw? RI2 EM3?

[rain sedge]

I can't remember I got so mad I threw my controller

[sullen minnow]

Honestly there should be exemptions for being able to seed a starting boon or hammer at, say, 40 or above

[rain sedge]

what the actual F

like this spread fire is not the first time a run just died from bad hammer

[sullen minnow]

Because of schads exact situation

[rain sedge]

yes RI2 EM3

I do seed my starting boon

I can't control the elysium hammers

it was like

[sullen minnow]

Yeah rip

[rain sedge]

1/10 chance or something

and I don't need greatshields on me

like 3 room in a row

and chariots

[solar maple]

even AP1 is a bit frustrating because if I have to roll twice for cast the run is basically dead

[sullen minnow]

You poor thing

I’m sorry, wait, fist?

Lol no it’s the other one. Ok, “I can feel your fist reaching back to strike through the internet” lol

God bless the swear bot and it’s affinity for what you do to a gun to get it ready to fire 🙈

[waxen relic]

Just lost an Awesome SpinOff against Hades because Chariot and getting caught in a combo right after Poseidon Call

Mirrorless Hades is really fun though

[rain sedge]

https://imgur.com/a/gvm1AAp

like this is not coincidental

there's no way spread fire and hazard bomb should appear 60% of the time

[waxen relic]

Schad, accept it and play ZagRail already

[sullen minnow]

Artemis is calling

[rain sedge]

I play eris enough times to know this level of hammer distribution is ridiculous

[sullen minnow]

Abandon Hades

[waxen relic]

Or change your seed

[rain sedge]

the seed only do the first boon

[sullen minnow]

Return to MW3 AA-12

[rain sedge]

it doesnt affect hammers 30 rooms in elysium

it doesnt even affect the boon on the next room

[waxen relic]

This Screen is in Tart

[rain sedge]

yeah this time it's room 8 on tart or something

but yes the speed doesnt affect the boon on the next room, or anything else except the first room

unless you route it using wriste13's speedrun routing thing

[waxen relic]

If you're doing the same thing sometimes you'll get the same stuff in the beginning

but it's more of a mind thing of course

[rain sedge]

I know, but I rarely even get the same second boon

even if that boon is on the next room

I know what you're saying, I'm saying I've tested it, and it doesnt work like that

[true fable]

it do

if you do the same stuff between rooms

[rain sedge]

I thought the only thing that affects the seed

is summon + cast

[true fable]

well

also walking into shades

voice lines

boon selection

[waxen relic]

wait a sec

[rain sedge]

"walking into shades"?

[true fable]

yes

[rain sedge]

I mean from what you're saying

[waxen relic]

they call a RNG Numbers right

[solemn pulsar]

Zags little random voice lines also affect rng

[rain sedge]

it sounds that it's so highly unlikely I can do the same thing for 8 rooms anyway

[true fable]

anything that calls rng will affect the seed

[solar maple]

breaking pots after combat is a big one too

[solemn pulsar]

If you grind enough on the same seed you’ll learn all the main paths

[waxen relic]

so if you end up at the same point just with more Numbers in that room instead of the other one it'll give you same stuff right?

[solar maple]

more numbers?

[solemn pulsar]

Not sure what you mean

[rain sedge]

I think all this just means that

[solemn pulsar]

But if you do exactly the same things on the same seed it will be the same every time

[rain sedge]

it's really hard to maintain the same hammer 8+ rooms in, especially 30+ rooms in

since there's so many "things" that can affect the seed

[solemn pulsar]

Just bad luck schad

[rain sedge]

idk I'm just really frustrated

[solar maple]

realistically seed with diverge after 1-2 rooms if you just play normally

[waxen relic]

If you do 1 call in room one 2 in Room 2 you might get the same chamber as if you'd done 2 in room 1 and 1 in room 2?

[rain sedge]

and observationally this happens so often

[true fable]

no

[waxen relic]

Kay

[true fable]

rng uses after combat in one room determine seed for the next

[waxen relic]

does the number get reset between rooms then

[sly remnant]

No

[rain sedge]

tbh in actuality

[solemn pulsar]

Yeah, probability do be like that. Getting spread fire 5 in a row doesn’t reduce the odds of seeing it a 6th time

[rain sedge]

since i'm seeding my run

even if I get the 56 clear

there's no way to prove that I didn't route the run

[solemn pulsar]

Yeah there is

1. Routing AP is currently almost impossible

2. If you’re not doing any rng Manips then it can’t be a very good route

[rain sedge]

oh yeah I read that bit in the speedrun discord

[sly remnant]

Yea

[rain sedge]

alright

I'll give it a few more tries

[sly remnant]

Routed is very obvious

[rain sedge]

but the next time I got so mad I threw my controller I gotta play other games

do a baj

I can totally relate to him now

[solemn pulsar]

Yeah if you’re mad take a break

And honestly ditch Eris

[rain sedge]

damn I haven't got this mad since that poseidon 40 run

[sullen minnow]

Can you elaborate a little on this? Ello told me a bit about this system, but he never mentioned combat affecting the #s generated for the rooms

[rain sedge]

I was so close with eris

like

phase 2 dad close

and if I do the clear with hestia I'm not gonna do it

[sly remnant]

Room resets to the seed you entered with once combat finishes

[solemn pulsar]

“If I do it I’m not gonna do it”

[rain sedge]

I just feel like hestia 56 doesn't prove anything

[solemn pulsar]

I wonder why. Without that there’s no routes

[solemn pulsar]

Lmao the thing that like 1 person ever has done?

[rain sedge]

at least with eris 56 it'll be the highest heat for the aspect

[rain sedge]

I think 4 people have done it?

[solemn pulsar]

It proves that you’re good? Talking like 56 heat Hestia is trivial

Still an impressive feat

[vital grove]

56 anything is not trivial

[rain sedge]

it's not trivial, it just feels like I'm giving up on my aspect

like

[sullen minnow]

Does this imply that the combat interactions that happen in a given room have no real net effect on the RNG generation of the rooms following?

[rain sedge]

I need to prove something about my aspect

[vital grove]

I think if you can do 50 heat consistently you are a master of the game

[sullen minnow]

You are

[vital grove]

Anything more than that, you're a superhuman wonder

[sullen minnow]

But masters are never satisfied

Gift and curse. That’s why their masters

[sly remnant]

I believe this is to keep the seed from growing exponentially as the number of rng calls in combat can get huge with crits.

It would be theoretically possible with like js3 bp2 nemesis to have an obscene number of rng calls on one seed

[sullen minnow]

Ok

[solemn pulsar]

arent all the combat rng calls off the same seed though?

there's so few calls after combat that it seems like most of them are up front, so idk what separating combat out does

[sly remnant]

Crits mainly

[mossy zinc]

Why?

[sly remnant]

Also spawning locations

[mossy zinc]

Just play what you like.

[rain sedge]

alright thanks for explaining the seeding/routing stuff

[sullen minnow]

At a practical, on-the-ground level, to answer the dummies question: would you say combat interactions have a meaningful effect on the ending RNG value of the room choices following combat?

I think that can be yes/no

[rain sedge]

so what I'm hearing is even with seeded start, it'll be easy to see I didn't route my run

[solemn pulsar]

i get all that but i'm saying if you have 1,000,000 RNG calls in combat, and then 10 after, what's the point of restting? you're not saving much

[sly remnant]

No they don't aurash

[mossy zinc]

You don't have to use only one aspect. You can do Hestia now if you think it's fun, and if you want to do try Eris another time, you can still do that.

[sullen minnow]

Ok, cool beans

Ty

[solemn pulsar]

honestly if you didn't tell anyone you seeded you could always just splice in a death, nobody would ever notice. we're 100% honor system around here, thankfully nobody abuses it

[rain sedge]

I'll give this a few more tries another day, thanks for explaining and hearing my rant

[sly remnant]

Yes but this way avoids combats between rooms stacking on top of each other

[rain sedge]

nah that's cheating

no honor in cheating

if I seed, imma say I seed

[solemn pulsar]

No, unless you break a pillar during combat it finishes falling after the reward pops up. then you've incremented post combat RNG

[rain sedge]

and hopefully people understand that's reasonable given otherwise you're reseting just over 4x after every death to get lightning strike

[sullen minnow]

I do like speedrunners as a community for that

[solemn pulsar]

i don't really understand tbh? it's going to calculate a new seed for the next room based off the post combat offset anyway

[rain sedge]

cool imma check out, see you at the tail stream later

[sullen minnow]

Short of dumbasses like the what’s his face Minecraft kid most that take up running seem to be doing it for the right reasons

[rain sedge]

which I'm sure there will be a stream... today...

[vital grove]

Eh is nobody doing that 51?

[mossy zinc]

No. You can still have knowledge of the possible routes in your seed whether you throw casts or whatever to manipulate the RNG or not.

[sly remnant]

Yes. Thats how it works now. What i am guessing and this is a guess is that a large enough offset causes problems with seed generation.

[solemn pulsar]

that makes sense. it's not something you would do on your own unless there was a reason

[sullen minnow]

The tiniest little corner of Tzeench’s lips moved a millimeter up reading this sentence

[sly remnant]

Knowledge =/= routed

[mossy zinc]

Yes, that is routed lol.

[solemn pulsar]

only if you're deliberately moving through a route

[sly remnant]

I dont think you understand

[solemn pulsar]

which, unless you've sat down and routed it, is impossible

[sly remnant]

How fragile routes are

[mossy zinc]

lol wut I don't understand?

[sly remnant]

We are talking one rng incrementation changing a lot

[mossy zinc]

I have done probably way more seeded runs than you have lol.

[true fable]

i hate it here

[sly remnant]

You might be able to reliably get a room 2 or 3 athena

[true fable]

im gonna go play bloons in peace 🧘‍♂️

[solemn pulsar]

what he's saying is there's a difference between "i have run this seed so much i have a basic idea of the different ways that tartarus can go"

and

"I know exactly how to play to get all of the boons and rooms that i want"

that's all

one is seeded + learning the seed

[true fable]

^

[solemn pulsar]

the other is routing

if you don't make a route

[sly remnant]

Thank you cgull

[solemn pulsar]

you're not routing

because then there's no route

[sly remnant]

The information is very limited and considering the deterministic approach of hades anyways you're advantage is going to shrink very quickly past the first few chambers.

But sure

[solemn pulsar]

^ i forget who, but some old runner said that when they used to run seeded as the main category, people could still get a really good feel for almost all of tartarus

in early access

especially when pushing heat, where you die in tart a lot

but again, that's building knowledge/mental map, not a route. you're still working with what the game is showing you, not manipulating and planning it

[rain sedge]

I must have died 100 times over in tartarus with this seed

but I don't think I've seen the same boon combo more than twice

alright so

let's make this simple

[solemn pulsar]

at high heat you're more likely to spend a lot of time in the first room

[rain sedge]

retrash's 57 nemesis was seeded

[solemn pulsar]

time in first room = crazy rng increments

[sullen minnow]

Dumb question, to preserve a seed you just give up before the death animation completes, yea?

[rain sedge]

does he get the clout or not

[sly remnant]

Yes

[solemn pulsar]

yeah, highest nemesis (seeded) heat

[rain sedge]

ignoring all the other insane things he's done

[sullen minnow]

Ok, thought so

[solemn pulsar]

at high heat nobody really looks down on seeding

imo

nobody should

especially for achievements that high

[rain sedge]

and are we agreed that he's not routing it, and therefore, the seed is there as a time save to fast forward to the part that he gets double edge

and is more of a "time save" than a "cheat"

[solemn pulsar]

mostly, but you still don't get to be unseeded

because it's not

[sullen minnow]

At a certain point seeding is just compensation for the stupid things you have to deal with when you get that deep in heat

[rain sedge]

yes I understand that

[sullen minnow]

This

There should be no shame in it

[rain sedge]

there's just a difference between seeding for a time save and to route

[sullen minnow]

Would you prefer bashing your skull against the keyboard until you find the one boon or hammer that you know you’ll 100% need to get done what you’ve set out?

That’s the question I ask myself

[rain sedge]

I'm just here for a high heat clear that won't be considered cheating

I'm tired of resetting for lightning strike for my 50, and that was only AP1

[sullen minnow]

If that’s cheating it shouldn’t be. Not that high up

[rain sedge]

which goes to be around 50% chance of lightning strike

[sly remnant]

Anyone who considers your 56 eris cheating because of a seed says more about them than your clear

[sullen minnow]

There’s no sport in suffering for sufferings sake like that when you’re that high up

Reminds me of the first 60sec of house of cards. It’s just useless suffering

[sly remnant]

Seeding allows more diversity in higher heat and that is not a bad thing

[sullen minnow]

Mmhmmm. If anyone has a problem with it it’s theirs tbh.

[vital grove]

Mechanical Beo question

[rain sedge]

alright thanks

[vital grove]

Did you rebind cast to L1?

[rain sedge]

let me talk to retrash since he's the only one who's done seeded this high

[solar maple]

personal preference from what I've heard (I play kbm haha)

[sly remnant]

Yea kbm as well

[rain sedge]

why is this big brain suggestion only heard today

this would've made the beo grind so much more fun

[vital grove]

My time playing it seems circle kinda sucks when you have to hold square

[sullen minnow]

I keep cast on r2

[vital grove]

And L1 seems natural

[sullen minnow]

Like a shooter

Very nice for me

[rain sedge]

anyway all the high heat beo players are KBM

[vital grove]

Lol, I usually keep reload on L1

Right stick is the worst button

But reload is only for 1 wep so yeah..

Or maybe R1 attack sekiro style

[sly remnant]

https://youtu.be/dOwqntK4SD8

[vital grove]

Then thumb is for dash/special/ cast / interact

[sly remnant]

@rain sedge that is what routing looks like. You can clearly tell the difference

[rain sedge]

yeah I saw that run

that's my basis of the questions

[sly remnant]

If you start deliberately avoid shades or spamming summon out of combat then yea people will have questions

[gaunt fiber]

I swear

The highest GY clear will have random inputs

[solar maple]

time to show a death then still spam summon