use stygian and dio cast
#h1-high-heat-strategies
edgy arrow
shy plinth
Like it doesn't scale as much but it's fine
rain sedge
yiiikees
dire steppe
lv1 hera is also objectively better with stygian
sly remnant
If you haven't maxed all the weapons there's no way your cast management is good enough to matter
rain sedge
that sounds like the kind of unfun beo gameplay I avoided
dire steppe
just better boiling blood uptime
edgy arrow
pretty sure i used stygian dio cast for my hera 32
works pretty well
used crush shot for 40 tho
dire steppe
lv1 chiron doesn’t even count as a weapon
edgy arrow
lvl1 chiron is arguably worse than lvl1 zag bow
oh zeus is alright at lvl1
just use lightning
dire steppe
do you guys take PS on hera
dire steppe
but thats cause it’s zag spear
lv1 achilles is better tbh
free dash
and you can still get furry jab
edgy arrow
oh rama
tidal flame
Honestly saying Achilles is free dash to me is the same as saying Dash Nova is free dash in my opinion.
dire steppe
unfortunately there’s no weapon where all of the aspects are compatible with “Flurry <X>”
so you cant do Furry OwO
edgy arrow
rama likes titan blood a lot, but it should still deal decent damage at lvl1
dire steppe
Honestly saying Achilles is free dash to me is the same as saying Dash Nova is f...
Correct
onyx venture
Some good low to mid level pact options that you should get used to are Extreme Measures 1 to 3, Middle Management, Tight Deadline 1 to 2, Convenience Fee 1 to 2, Damage Control 1 to 2(depending on weapon) and Underworld Customs @viscid kiln
None of those pacts will make the run excessively hard overall and should easily get you over 10 
rain sedge
CF before BP?
onyx venture
BP is fine too
rain sedge
CF makes life unsatisfying for me tbh
onyx venture
CF on lower heat isn't really a big deal
rain sedge
but I guess at RI0 and no UC that doesnt realy matter
sly remnant
I hate cf
rain sedge
I used GY to reset a lot to progress story
that's why I have 43 uses of the aspect
and 2 clear lol
edgy arrow
that's a good ratio
honestly i'm suspicious of people with long streaks at this point
if you don't have a death/win ratio of 41:2 are you even playing the game?
rain sedge
schad's RI2 AP2 luck continues
idk if y'all saw the time I got chamber 10 heart rend with AP2
I peaked on this game then
edgy arrow
oh yeah ngl that was the most impressive thing i've ever seen
gaunt fiber
I used GY to reset a lot to progress story
rain sedge
Question
does explosive fire means your attack, which is now an aoe, destroys projectile?
sly remnant
I have no idea
rain sedge
it does not sigh
I got ruined by some witches in ashpodel
the first time I lost to than in a loooong while
great blue lernie head
this was a good run
dead
ok it's actually unbelievable how much harder the blue head is
gaunt fiber
Yeah the rocks or whatever's falling is amazin
night notch
if you don't have a death/win ratio of 41:2 are you even playing the game?
if you don't have a death/win ratio of 74/2 are you really me irl
gaunt fiber
Ok I'm calling the police
edgy arrow
if you don't have a death/win ratio of 74/2 are you really me irl
...you've died irl 72 times?
wait what does the 2 represent in this context
immortality?
night notch
...you've died irl 72 times?
AHAHAH i meant in the game 
gaunt fiber
Police call cancelled then
edgy arrow
oh damn i thought you'd discovered the secret to immortality
well, the secret to a 1 in 36 chance at immortality, which is still pretty good
green citrus
I have arrived, back from work. Here's my pact. https://ibb.co/s3bXJbw
Also, I have started Owl Pendant with great success but you can also still go Arti keepsake first
I've used Ruthless Reflex and Greater Reflex, if you're just looking for completion obviously don't do RR lol
night notch
"thank you for suffering" hah
dire steppe
start owl pendant and take bronze skin instead of any other boon
that’s the chad play
green citrus
AP1 is worth not having to do HS or any JS and CP. AP1 tends to be manageable with rolls, but again this is a speed pact so you can play around with JS and HS.
Owl Pendant start I want Divine Strike or Divine Dash only lol
dire steppe
yeah i said that because bronze skin is the worst athena boon
green citrus
Eh, debatable at high heat lmao
dire steppe
what athena boon isn’t better
green citrus
Divine Flourish on Arthur is bad
dire steppe
take td0 stand in one place and spam special LUL
vital grove
Sure Footing is worse if you never stand in traps that your special disables anyway
green citrus
Yeah sure footing for HS dad pots is definite clutch
daring hedge
if only arthur's hallowed ground could actually disable pots
they may be traps but they're too special for arthur
onyx venture
Trying 40 heat for the first time today. This is fine. Everything is fine
shy plinth
Walk very slowly to the boat
onyx venture
I had 2 health from about the start of the second summon phase
And it was the blue head 
shy plinth
Not dying seems significant
onyx venture
I credit it to a greater call during the summon phase and a meg to finish Lernie
This is actually the first run that I made it out of Tartarus
Of 3 total attempts so far
tidal flame
Did you make it?
onyx venture
Died at heroes, ran out of time. Almost finished the fight though, probably 5-10% left on each of them
Playing around with pact options each time
What do you all usually do for 40?
gaunt fiber
@onyx venture Something like that. JS can go to DC, so can HS
It's aspect dependent
onyx venture
Ok, that's more or less what I'm doing right now
Though like I said I've been fiddling with it each time
gaunt fiber
You can go TD2 tho, more time for these trials and stuff
onyx venture
This is what I'm currently running on attempt #4. Turned down TD a bit because of the result of my last attempt
gaunt fiber
more consistent too
I would not take AP even though it might be ok on aspects like Rama
TD2 max JS is alright
onyx venture
Yeah, it's a tough one. The last attempt when I died to timer in Heroes was AP2 
gaunt fiber
you gamin
onyx venture
I might try max JS though if I'm sticking with TD2
onyx venture
I know that TD3 is the "best" choice but I need to work on my speed still
onyx venture
Doesn't help that I only play like, once a month ha ha
Just gotta work on optimizing attacks I guess
onyx venture
Oh, just got Splitting Bolt in Asphodel with Zeus special Rama, this could be interesting
Nevermind, got caught on terrain and died in magma
daring hedge
the highest damage i've ever gotten and probably will ever get with a lesser artemis call http://puu.sh/HcaUr/7b891b686a.jpg
hyper delivery heart rend finally making it good
green citrus
they may be traps but they're too special for arthur
Damn I didn't even think about that.
rain sedge
Wight the mod is joining the fun
green citrus
Wight the mod is joining the fun
"Fun" haha. It's literally called punishment in the game lol. But I agree, join our ranks!! 🙂
onyx venture
Bow in general, yeah
rain sedge
Maybe ap0 and td3, but otherwise it's pretty ideal
I find Rama really hard to play, but I'm bad
King surely disagree
green citrus
Yeah I was gonna say the same, but i understand getting used to going fast with BP2. It's hard in a few of the rooms.
onyx venture
I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of practice for me at this point, and getting used to FO2
rain sedge
I mean td3 is just taking enough chaos gates and free room
Yeah good luck! I'd try Chiron if you like bow, but rama is the superior weapon objectively
Chiron is for bad players like me
onyx venture
I do like Chiron as well, I'm just slower with Chiron
rain sedge
Yeah it's a slower weapon
onyx venture
And if I'm already barely scraping by on TD3 with Rama at 40, Chiron isn't going to improve that
Was messing around with a shackle start (mostly because of using AP on a couple attempts) but ultimately not sure if that's the right move vs going for a god off the start if I'm not using AP
rain sedge
Rama on the shackle is what I'd do if I start with ap1 yeah
daring hedge
shackle is right alongside heartbreak below deadly strike overall
rain sedge
For my Rama 40, I believe I went aphro start for the damage modifier and weak
And I forced Athena on asphodel
daring hedge
you could def run shackle the whole way through or until picking something decent up
rain sedge
I wasn't so concerned about what's on my special
onyx venture
Yeah, special is mostly just there for the Suffering
And maybe duos but I can't really count on those
rain sedge
Do you actually believe deadly strike is the play for beginners tho king
Do you just want that for heart rend or splitting headache?
daring hedge
i think so yeah, since it gets boosted pretty easily by hammers
onyx venture
I like Deadly and Aphro strike already, so I'd be inclined to go that route even if Tail didn't suggest it
rain sedge
I find heartbreak to be more consistent for Tartarus, which is where most beginners suffer
But that's just how I feel about the 2 boons
daring hedge
i mean heartbreak is perfectly fine, really, especially for 40 heat
deadly just pulls ahead with the right hammers at a certain point
but it's not gonna make a huge difference with no JS/CP/etc
onyx venture
I think overcharging my attacks is hurting my time
rain sedge
It's very hard to power shot Rama for me, especially with the stress of enemies in the room
daring hedge
that kind of thing just gets better with time, muscle memory
rain sedge
I found the weapon very stressful in general, it felt like being "tested" everytime I attack
onyx venture
I just need to learn to intuit the power curve for how much is needed to kill an enemy without wasting time, I think
rain sedge
And as a delta chamber Eris main, I like afking in my runs 
onyx venture
I like power shots with Rama I just don't think it's practical a lot of the time
daring hedge
power shots wasting time is only really a potential issue in tartarus i think
otherwise it's mostly appropriate
onyx venture
Good to know
daring hedge
other than things you'd def expect like exalted souls
rain sedge
Have you seen tail's 60 run? He demonstrated really well on when to poweshot and not
onyx venture
I guess that makes sense, since that's when most enemies will just die to a stiff breeze
I did watch the 60 run, yeah
rain sedge
Cool, that run helped me understand Rama a lot more
green citrus
Also AP1 isn't so bad with rolls. So if you're not using any RI, AP1 is just mildly inconvenient. I'm still able to get deadly strike using keepsake off rip pretty consistently.
shy gulch
just dont go for duos or legendaries
green citrus
Although it is not programmed to be random, it most certainly marks out the exact thing you need LUL
shy gulch
you will get cucked every single time
green citrus
^^
shy gulch
exactly
onyx venture
Yeah, I'm familiar with AP's tendency to always take what you need the most
rain sedge
As I said, there's a machine learning model behind AP that understands which boon you want the most
Except for that chamber 10 heart rend AP2 run
I'm still riding on that high
onyx venture
I do find it funny that my AP2 run got the farthest, though
My boons were complete nonsense aside from maybe splash dash
rain sedge
AP2 shackle rama isn't the worst weapon to have AP2 on I think, but you just have to be ready to play without divine dash and extra DD I think
green citrus
I have tried some crazy 32 and 40 heat pacts with AP2 trying to use BP0 and easy other stuff but the rng seemingly makes it too tough.
rain sedge
you do play a really hard weapon tho peach
green citrus
True, but, the AP2 gamble is just too stronk lmaoo
daring hedge
arthur def has a harder time with high heat pacts just because DC feels especially awful there
rain sedge
I think it's the FO2 nonsense that made it unplayable
the weapon is just so damn clunky and slow
shy gulch
ap2 shackle rama is okay its just hard to get the hammers you need
and you need a good hammer to scale
rain sedge
just be a tail and get a good anvil lol
shy gulch
LOL
daring hedge
oh i haven't done a recorded eris 50 yet
the one i did was pre 1.37 and i think i used dad keepsake at the end
which i def wouldn't want to do as much now
rain sedge
ah indeed, save the hardest 50 for last
very clever
do you mind pinging me when you've done it and have the recording up? I kinda need to learn how to do it with the 4s buff
daring hedge
yeah for sure
wanton plover
for em4, where exactly do i go to be safe from dog
shy gulch
bottom right is the usual spot
shy gulch
circles can appear there too, so be aware, but its much less likely
shy gulch
you can still iframe it with a dash if ur far away, which i sometimes am if i forget
edgy arrow
I have arrived, back from work. Here's my pact. https://ibb.co/s3bXJbw
this link isn't working?
thanks for the advice either way
i'll try switching to owl pendant
green citrus
Lemme re-post it might have deleted pic lol
green citrus
this link isn't working?
green citrus
Yes sir, it tough haha. If you don't do FO2 the heat can go into JS or HS. Once you start going into CP, bosses can get tough though.
Only other real option is sucking it up with AP2 or EM4 but that's rooouuuggghhh for 40 heat
edgy arrow
yeah JS/HS was what i was using before
having trouble with the timer tho
guess i’ll give FO2 a shot
green citrus
Yeah, that's why I just got used to FO2.
If you can efficiently use the dash-attack-dash-attack method to drag your sweeps around with you as you dash, it's not so bad.
green citrus
Oh boy, this will speed you up quickly haha.
So, you can basically keep mashing attack while you are dashing and the full combo gets dragged around with you.
If you're standing still with Arthur, it's way too slow.
Lemme see if I can get a good example of a short video.
edgy arrow
oh like dashing between swings
green citrus
Yes exactly
edgy arrow
yeah i’ve been doing that
green citrus
You want to time the third swing right between phases on bosses and such for mega damage.
green citrus
Yeah exactly
You can instant phase Meg with a third swing backstab crit.
So she barely moves
green citrus
Lol I'm normally more enthused on stream but, here's what it can do.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/888912786
green citrus
There's plenty of other fodder to learn the movement on my videos too.
edgy arrow
sure i’ll take a look
green citrus
Don't watch me use Ruthless Reflex though haha, that might confuse you.
Although if you can perfect it, that's how you can get that crazy damage
green citrus
yeah no way i’m using that lol
The key really is just getting + dashes in asphodel or mid/final shop of tart haha
plain shuttle
6th attempt at 32, dead at asphodel
but I think the seed is good so I kept it
hammer first room with rocket and zeus 2nd with epic attack
should I use god's favor instead of dark foresight for UC?
edgy arrow
always dark foresight
vital grove
Dark Foresight is the single strongest talent outside of more dash or dd
night forge
MM + FO2 barge of death is very chaotic
vital grove
Time it so the trap hits the crystal
If you run Antos by any chance you can time it to guarantee both hits on the boss
wanton plover
gaunt fiber
Usually I Antos right when the voidstone spawns
Antos won't hit it twice but you have to take it down fast to prevent more spawn
edgy arrow
lol taking a break from 40 heat swords to clear my head with some beo
this is literally easier than arthur 40 smh
frigid igloo
46 heat :o
vital grove
Strong 46
vital grove
Yes
32 is widely accepted as the high heat 'floor'
40 is where you really start feeling the heat and 60 is extremely difficult. I think it's been done all of once.
The higher you go, the harder it becomes per heat point.
gaunt fiber
Congrats! @edgy arrow
gaunt fiber
Yeah just add EM4
edgy arrow
question is, will i manage to do beo 50 before i can get good at swords?
gaunt fiber
Prolly
edgy arrow
ye i have so little EM4 practice atm
gaunt fiber
You good at beo, sword hard
edgy arrow
prolly gonna make a maxy practice save file
rain sedge
I think sword 40 is easier than any 50
Have you tried seeding/resetting hammers @edgy arrow ?
What do you have left?
edgy arrow
oh i still have all the swords except poseidon
and gilgamesh actually lol
i’d prolly be making more progress if i didn’t keep getting distracted by beo (and grind my hell mode save atm)
edgy arrow
why hoarding flurry when you can cursed flurry
lowkey really hoping my zag sword 40 is cursed flurry
rain sedge
I remember I passed on cursed flurry in one of the swords
it's just too scary
it's a quick trip to the well by asterius if you're unlucky
full flame
wow i am back and finally hit 21. but lost a lot of motivation to keep going
tidal flame
wow i am back and finally hit 21. but lost a lot of motivation to keep going
Without context this sounds really depressing.
stiff aurora
can fateful twist hit the option that restores DD?
edgy arrow
pretty sure it can yeah
rain sedge
What's fateful twist?
stiff aurora
the random option in the well
wait cerberus can hit that one corner that is always safe?
stiff aurora
he just killed me
daring hedge
Cerberus can't control the circles of falling rubble ok
stiff aurora
technically dad killed me after he got me low but still
daring hedge
Not his fault completely
edgy arrow
yeah he doesn’t know his own strength
rain sedge
I can't remember I petted cerberus
stiff aurora
Petting cerberus does nothing, no need to ever acknowledge him
rain sedge
tbh petting cerberus gives me heart burn
it's like, you're petting a good boi, but not IRL
and you want to pet a good boy IRL and you can't
a bit like watching nice cooking shows, getting hungry from it, and found that you only have stale bread and cheetos left in your cupboard
edgy arrow
too real man
daring hedge
Petting cerberus does nothing, no need to ever acknowledge him
rude
gaunt fiber
I lost my habit of cheering for the good shades working
rain sedge
I never had that habit
when I first started, I thought the stadium was going to slowly turn red with each victory
like more people will support me and eventually my poster will cover the stadium
but no
mossy zinc
It turns red when you're losing.
dire steppe
Without context this sounds really depressing.
that’s me
rain sedge
so I have a bit of a specific question
about god trials
what's the difference between the artemis and zeus punishment?
or are they basically the same, in a sense of "avoid the circles"
or is there a period where it's safe to th em
and are the circles random, or are they homing to you? can the damage be deflected?
gaunt fiber
Is not Artemis like a volley of arrows whereas Zeus is more "aoe" since the circles appear a bit everywhere
I fear Zeus more
rain sedge
I mean what's the diference between "volley of arrows" and "aoe" tho
gaunt fiber
close of each other
daring hedge
artemis circles try to home in on zag's position periodically and zeus circles just randomly pop up in zag's general vicinity every so often
gaunt fiber
Thanks
this what I wanted to say
the homing part is stronger on Arte so easier to dodge for me
daring hedge
so you can make more of an effort to actually evade artemis', while with zeus you could end up dashing right into a circle because they're deliberately kind of vaguely placed around you
yeah i agree
i think artemis is easier than zeus there
gaunt fiber
so you can make more of an effort to actually evade artemis', while with zeus yo...
exactly
With one dash it's hell
rain sedge
thanks astaos and tail
that's good to know
I'm making considerations of taking trial rooms on tart, because without RI it feels I lack a lot of power
for the cute 56 clear
spring kettle
I’ve seen tails sometimes take trials so I’m assuming it’s ok to take trials sometimes on TD3
Like if you need extra boons to sell or smth
gaunt fiber
I mean for Eris
I know that Rama is strong on its own (for the tart part at least)
Actually I don't even know, maybe it's skill dependent
rain sedge
do you think it's fine with TD3 tho?
eris
gaunt fiber
yeah I guess lightning strike is enough
rain sedge
if we're being real though, timing is kinda tight because I'm not keen on taking chaos gates
so it's kinda reliant on fountain and story rooms
and I have to play the fury fight real slow because I play with 50 less HP
and there's a lot of chaos curses that are just painful. attack and special curse is really bad, -HP is bad, +enemies is basically instant reset, extra incoming damage is kinda unplayable at boss, - dash range can be bad too
gaunt fiber
yeah
AP2 makes it even funnier
found this the other day, wanted to share it (again)
rain sedge
what's special about this run?
rain sedge
I guess
daring hedge
it's like the worst god to have on special
dio says hello
rain sedge
that became 32 all weapons, that became 40, which became 45, and 6x40, and 50, and 24x40
it never ends
gaunt fiber
Tough call, guess Zeus scales with Zeus
rain sedge
and now I'm trying 56 which I thought I'd never do
full flame
yeah i was like... i think ill take a break. and then today i was like no.
misty tinsel
shy gulch
yeah tartarus is pretty rough at high heat
spiral island
OK please help
I’m trying to get the second skelly statue
I’m struggling
I see now why this channel exists
Anyone?
spiral island
Yeah 16 heat
shy gulch
well in the pins we have a recommended 32 heat setup, which u can take bits and pieces of to form a 16 heat one
any weapon or aspect you're comfortable with, or any specific issues you have?
shy gulch
nice, im a fan of both of those aspects as well
if ur going hera, id recommend aphrodite cast
spiral island
Alright, how does that work?
shy gulch
mostly its just big damage, you load in casts, shoot at enemy, pick up casts when enemy dead, repeat
LOL
one thing i like about it is that its low range means you dont have to chase it very far
spiral island
Yeah sounds busted
shy gulch
it'll drop right where the enemy is
shy gulch
hera also likes something for aoe, like snow burst or tidal dash, though if you're struggling to complete 16 heat, then divine dash is something id recommend
spiral island
Divine dash is great
shy gulch
infernal yea
spiral island
Fiery presence probably
shy gulch
either is fine
shadow presence is good if you can get parting shot
but its not necessary
ones id reocmmend are fated persuasion, gods pride, and dark foresight
spiral island
Fiery seems good with aphrodite cast
shy gulch
i also like family favorites over privileged status, but u can do PS with hera
fiery will activate on your bow attack, not on the actual cast
spiral island
Oh
shy gulch
it can still be useful for one-shotting early enemies in tartarus without your cast, but its not too important
spiral island
Well then in that case shadow is probably better
spiral island
Cthonic vitality probably, it’s nice to have just so I don’t slowly wither away
shy gulch
yeah boiling is the one i always take
spiral island
I’m taking thick skin because I’m too good at dying to do otherwise
shy gulch
personally i prefer FF since its super consistent, but priv stat is something you can do on hera if you want
if you get a status inflicting attack, like demeter, or athena with blinding flash, then its very easy to activate PS
on hera, i think its a bit of a preference pick
shy gulch
meg's companion battie is the generally preferred one
does a lot of damage, comes out quickly, and can hit multiple enemies
spiral island
Alright
shy gulch
if you struggle with the furies, antos is an option, but meg is preferred
spiral island
I usually pick Shady but I have Battie maxed too
I don’t have Antos yet so Battie it is then
shy gulch
pinned messages
spiral island
I think there’s an answer in the pins
I’ve been making the mistake of choosing routine inspection
spiral island
I’ve died to tight deadline a couple times cause I’m no speedrunner
shy gulch
which level of TD
spiral island
2
spiral island
TD1 is fine
shy gulch
id recommend at least 1 level of TD, TD1 isnt bad
edgy arrow
my first 32 was like 58 minutes long or something lol
spiral island
I’m not really used to EM3
shy gulch
EM3 can be challenging
edgy arrow
but yeah most people should be able to deal with TD1
spiral island
Now the other thing I have trouble with is DR pact options
shy gulch
DR?
edgy arrow
mine was pre nerf chaos
spiral island
Damage Reduction
shy gulch
are u talking abt damage control? the blue heart ones
spiral island
Things like Calisthenics Program and Benefits Package
shy gulch
CP is rough, makes bosses tougher
spiral island
Yeah
shy gulch
i think relatively free pacts are things like
edgy arrow
BP1 is generally manageable
shy gulch
middle management, underworld customs, TD1
edgy arrow
but prolly avoid BP2
spiral island
I can handle BP1
river glacier
Is it worth for Extreme Measures 3
shy gulch
at 32 heat xate?
river glacier
Yeah
shy gulch
i usually do EM3 at 32 heat yea
32 is still flexible enough that you can avoid it, but then you have to accept some other pact being difficult
spiral island
Underworld customs is fine I think
As long as you have some throwaway boobs
Boons
I meant boons
spiral island
Why must the n and b keys be right next to eachother
shy gulch
i like to keep a fated persuasion reroll for the purging pool too
in case im not offered the one i want to sell
spiral island
Yeah, and I take keys if they’re offered to me
So I’ll be fine
Is Forced Overtime a bad idea?
edgy arrow
for 16 yeah
spiral island
Alright
shy gulch
yea depends on your future goals
if you're JUST trying to beat 16 heat, id prob avoid it
edgy arrow
if you wanna go for 32+ heat at some point, FO is a really good pact to get used to
shy gulch
but if you want to go up, you need to get used to FO
spiral island
Heightened security is not nice for me, I know it’s good for killing enemies but I’m clumsy with it
opal token
32 Heat Gilga Fists: do I take Pom Erebus gate, hammer, or Dio boon? Not worried about time
Double Pom would hit blade dash right now which I kinda like haha
But hammer
spiral island
Right
And you get three choices afterwards
Which is really good
Go for it then
opal token
Yeah it’s close with hammer I think
spiral island
Jury summons scares me for Elysium
spiral island
Elysium is my least favourite areas
Those flame wheels are a pain in the ass with anything but the bow or rail
And most things are armoured in Elysium
edgy arrow
just kite flamewheels into things
daring hedge
with flame wheels, usually the best way to deal with them is to kite into walls and gaps
don't need to touch em
edgy arrow
they’re honestly one of my favourite enemies in elysium at this point
spiral island
I just learned that was a thing in my last run
edgy arrow
they literally kill themselves without me doing anything
shy gulch
flame wheels can still be scary to me
spiral island
Armoured chariots on the other hand...
shy gulch
if they're unarmored, theres a ton of them mixed in with normal enemies so it can get difficult to navigate both in a timely manner
edgy arrow
anything can be scary on high heat for sure
shy gulch
if they're armored, BP2 can make them brutal depending on the benefits
daring hedge
speeder slugger big chariots 
edgy arrow
but i’d rather have them than more exalted greatbows
shy gulch
stop tail im getting flashbacks
daring hedge
lmao
spiral island
Exalted greatbows are just straight up annoying
spiral island
Yeah
edgy arrow
^
shy gulch
i dont like seeing them normally
and i HATE seeing them with BP2
though to be fair
BP2 on anything in elysium is scary
elysium is just a scary place
spiral island
I really just don’t like the exalted period
They’re obnoxious and hit hard
Like a lesser Theseus
daring hedge
safe windows for speeder greatshields are 👌 that small
shy gulch
lmfao
edgy arrow
be funny if theseus had a soul that just respawned him at full health if you didn’t kill it
spiral island
Oh man
shy gulch
dont give amir ideas
sly remnant
be funny if theseus had a soul that just respawned him at full health if you did...
delete this
spiral island
EM7
daring hedge
EM3 NG+
spiral island
It loops around
edgy arrow
“help i’ve been in the champions fight for half an hour”
spiral island
Oh no
That would be pain
Just pain
What if every enemy had max Death Defiance?
Including bosses
Hades already does
So not him
edgy arrow
that’s just hestia with DC2
spiral island
Yeah
spiral island
Well that was a breeze
Beat 16 heat
I got really lucky and got Hermes’ Legendary with Hera
Stubborn defiance is also really good
Better for high heat
edgy arrow
nice one
the rule of thumb is DDs are better if you struggle with bosses, SD is better if you struggle with rooms
but overall DDs kind of do take the cake until you’re running LC4 all the time
turbid perch
trying 32 heat. i am in a lot of pain
shy gulch
mood
wanton plover
mood
true fable
was browsing for my first sub 10 and also found my first 32 heat clear
find all the things wrong with this image
shy gulch
using chaos shield
plain shuttle
https://i.imgur.com/cURsBbP.png still struggling with this
true fable
using chaos shield
el classico
true fable
https://i.imgur.com/cURsBbP.png still struggling with this
This looks pretty normal IMO
what part are you struggling with?
true fable
like to enemy mobs or just bosses
i would avoid CF2 and JS3
try HL2/CF1/JS2 or something like that
might make bosses slightly harder though
vital grove
I run Fo2 and td3 without the JS3, then take away 1 CF and the dc2
Game will be a lot easier if you can manage the faster enemies
plain shuttle
rail shouldnt have trouble dealing with speed
vital grove
Yeah, Eris is an easy sub 20 weapon, even on 5 sack
plain shuttle
yeah time is not an issue for me
I got power couple back to back so RNG is not on my side as well
edgy arrow
power couple is the fastest asphodel miniboss tho
plain shuttle
I want to not die XD
pulsar herald
people don't like CP in high heat?
waxen relic
yes
pulsar herald
any particular reason?
waxen relic
It increases the health of bosses substantially
pulsar herald
statistically it seemed a better choice than JS, but I guess I understand
waxen relic
what statistic?
pulsar herald
I'm still in low heat (15), so i've been always running it, because my builds did way too much dmg regardless
i meant mathematically
but im not implying i did any math, just looking at it
it seemed better to run JS
waxen relic
you can cover multiple enemies in AoE which kinda messes up your math
static plover
CP isn't something that's not usually taken untill super high heat purely because it effects all enemy health including bosses
pulsar herald
makes sense, imma start avoiding it
to be fair, it's super easy to get to 15 heat, but i'm starting to struggle with getting more heat without nasty modifiers
any other recommendations that I should be picking up or avoiding?
waxen relic
in the pins
pulsar herald
thanks
gaunt fiber
Become a TD3 gamer
plain shuttle
cant do TD3, 2 is as much as I can do
I usually do low 4 min tart and I'm not going to risk it
gaunt fiber
saving 30s in Tartarus is enough
Some aspects are slow starters but they do just fine once you have few boons. With a bit of practice you should be able to save more time
brazen yoke
Putting tight deadline at 3 and using those extra slots to put JS and CP at 0 is how I finally beat 32 heat. If I dont get hit then HL and LC don't matter lol and I'm clearing rooms that have the same amount of enemies as 0 with the same amount of health as they have at 0
Very easy to stay under 5 min per region with the least amount of enemies with the lowest healthbars possible
halcyon flame
any particular tips on em4 before i try it for the first time?
actually nevermind i've spoiled the fight for myself already anyways
plain shuttle
EM4 on its own? not that bad
10 heat EM4 only shouldnt be a problem if you get there with 3DDs
halcyon flame
i decided to leave bp1 and mm on because why not
images that precede unfortunate events
edgy arrow
BP and MM don’t effect the EM4 fight
plain shuttle
thankfully they dont yes
halcyon flame
phase 3 with 2 dds
i can do this
i probably should have taken the spearpoint though in retrospect
plain shuttle
take acorn but 2DDs should be plenty
waxen relic
5 minutes and 20 seconds
halcyon flame
i thought 4 minutes was long
or maybe it was because i decided to use an aphro chiron build
and not arty lol
not the best dps but it was fun
"Banned for containing too many music notes per second"
rain sedge
https://imgur.com/nvp9MHO
I assume this is when chaos shield was still broken?
edgy arrow
https://imgur.com/nvp9MHO
you think that's bad, check out my first 32
my favourite part is no TD at all
stiff aurora
Now put on some td and something else and do 40 right away lol
gaunt fiber
I need to find my first 32
But since I got Nyaanyaa's help for it
it's prolly not cursed
vital grove
you think that's bad, check out my first 32
Silly ohok, it's 32 heat not 32 minutes.
edgy arrow
lmao
i actually thought it was longer than that; i swear some of my attempts were almost an hour
vital grove
Going no TD opens some...safer strats
edgy arrow
true
and this was pre nerf chaos; just run around spamming bull rush and special and it’s basically certain you’ll eventually win
stiff aurora
I hate going that slow
edgy arrow
at this point i'm the same honestly
rain sedge
can't remember last time I turned off TD3
tbh that nemesis 40 was VERY close to TD3
I was 3 ticks away or something from dying to it on heroes
would've been quite upset if theseus managed to claim credit for my death
gaunt fiber
timer ticking at heroes is the best thing
cloud cairn
Hey I'm having difficulty with 32 heat on aspect of rama, are there any changes I should make to the default pact setup?
edgy arrow
halfway decent rama players would probably not recommend this but turning off DC actually helped me clear 40 with it
might be worth a try
shy gulch
what’s the default setup you’re doing? and what specifically are u struggling with
do u die to bosses or regular rooms, any specific biome, etc
cloud cairn
Mostly normal rooms, bosses and mini bosses I can deal with without to much difficulty
Cloner rooms with DC were pretty difficult so I removed DC and put the points into HL LC and JS
edgy arrow
are you running SD and LC4, or DDs?
cloud cairn
SD but I forgot the LC4 trick
edgy arrow
yeah if you’re already running SD then LC4 is probably worth it
rama is a very timing dependant weapon, so the other thing you could try is lowering FO (not sure what level you have it at atm)
cloud cairn
Ok that will likely help
edgy arrow
32 is flexible enough that you can run FO0 if you need to
cloud cairn
I'm not I just took it for the heat
edgy arrow
lol we talk about “getting used to FO2” but honestly half the time that just means getting used to dying
shy plinth
In tartarus
edgy arrow
^
gaunt fiber
The first time I tried to FO1 I was dying in tartarus so much
So I was like "no way I can get used to that"
shy plinth
BP2 FO2 fast cloner skulls gg
rain sedge
Hey I'm having difficulty with 32 heat on aspect of rama, are there any changes ...
have you checked the pin?
gaunt fiber
So I turned on FO2
rain sedge
there's some advice there
cloud cairn
I did
edgy arrow
So I turned on FO2
this is the high heat mindset
rain sedge
halfway decent rama players would probably not recommend this but turning off DC...
what..... how does this help? do you strap zeus on special or something?
if it's not you writing it I'd flame but yea
gaunt fiber
I was talking with Resqtoaster weeks ago, he has a very interesting approach of the game. Like you could try to clear 34, 36 heat in order to get comfy at 32
rain sedge
but the shared suffering goes through DC right 😦
rain sedge
I was talking with Resqtoaster weeks ago, he has a very interesting approach of ...
!badbot
edgy arrow
everything just flowed much smoother when i turned off DC2
it’s 100% me playing the aspect wrong i suspect
someday i wanna get good at rama for real
cloud cairn
Thanks for the help, My setup was not well optimised and I may be able to do it now
rain sedge
it's very unenjoyable for bad players like me
gaunt fiber
Remember that 32 is not free
rain sedge
I did not enjoy the 32, enjoyed 40 even less
it's fun if you're like king that powershots as and when he wants
feels so satisfying
but if you just keep missing powershot you kinda feel impotent idk
edgy arrow
yeah his power shots are so big brain
shy gulch
Rama takes practice
edgy arrow
me: “i can rama power shot here”
narrator: “he could not rama power shot there”
shy gulch
took me a while b4 I was comfortable with it at higher heat
shy plinth
One of the higher skill cap weapons in the game I think
shy gulch
I still need to come back and do Rama 50 heat
edgy arrow
honestly chiron is getting less fun for me as i go higher
32 with it was easy, but it was the only bow i struggled with at 40
shy gulch
for me, the Chiron special animation takes too long for too little damage
shy plinth
Td3 feels like a real limiting factor
shy gulch
like if somethings taking a while, expect it to do damage
edgy arrow
pretty sure 100% of the damage i take on chiron is mid special animation
rain sedge
so the limiting factor that I found on the chiron 50
was 2 things
- some enemies and BPs are just especially bad for that weapon
shy gulch
yeah for sure
rain sedge
dc2 numskulls are just so painful
shy gulch
I’d also probably struggle to find sufficient damage for TD3
rain sedge
whereas other aspects are kinda fine with it
shy gulch
DC2 numbskulls, pain
rain sedge
same with seeking witches and the spitting snake thing
shy gulch
only like zeus shield doesn’t care about those
rain sedge
eris
but the second problem is the bigger problem
which is that with JS3, enemies stacks on top of each other
rain sedge
and the chiron gameplay basically wants you to kill an enemy within one mark
if not you just lose so much time
but what usually happens is something like
you choose an enemy --> your special hits a lot of random enemies --> it doesnt die --> it's hard to reapply the mark --> you get overwhelmed by enemy attacks
gaunt fiber
concentrated volley overrated always said it
edgy arrow
and piercing volley is underrated
gaunt fiber
true
gaunt fiber
yeah with Baj
rain sedge
I see I see
gaunt fiber
From all the knowledge I stole
rain sedge
astaos supporting nya once again
gaunt fiber
I'm pretty sure I'm 30% Nyaanyaa right now
rain sedge
you're baiting her into being mean to you
gaunt fiber
Oh you think so
rain sedge
she'll say something like
gaunt fiber
It's alright I'm strong enough
gaunt fiber
lmao
shy plinth
Nyaa is that you
gaunt fiber
that's actually a good one
well played
But she would also say that 30% of her skill is already divine
stiff aurora
what's the consensus on numbing sensation? I never noticed it doing anything lol
mossy zinc
The concensus is that opinions are divided.
mossy zinc
Yeah. On the other hand, I might consider rerolling for Bad Influence.
edgy arrow
same
stiff aurora
did you guys know that hitting the butterfly during the em4 fight is bad for acorn?
mossy zinc
Yup.
stiff aurora
I always have bad luck with the minibosses lol
I think I'll just start taking tooth lol
gaunt fiber
Imagine making an EM4 practice save. It's demeter at 50 heat and you pick acorn at styx
shy gulch
i personally like numbing sensation if i can get it but yeah i wouldnt roll for it or anything
gaunt fiber
I have not played much dio
A slow seems excellent. But iirc the foes keep their attack speed right
stiff aurora
yeah, only move speed afaik
shy gulch
i only really got it on rama with dio special so slowed move speed is nice to help positioning
stiff aurora
pretty sure it is one more of the mostly useless dio boons
shy gulch
to be fair dio has a lot of useless boons
shy gulch
yeah lol
worthy ember
Dio just isn't bringing the excitement I guess
stiff aurora
more like dio boons do literally nothing
3 damage hangover from dash
thanks I guess
worthy ember
Dio have the cast duos and I do love him if I can get special on chiron and aphrodite attack (godlike if also you get Artemis and ares duos) but outside of that I feel it takes too much work to maintain stacks of hangover
stiff aurora
the call is decent aoe clear but that is rarerly a problem
and if you scale zeus that's prohably a better call
worthy ember
True
Delay damage isn't my favorite but I prefer his delay damage to ares
I bet the math say ares is better ?
worthy ember
I still take Artemis or aphro call for the full bar to skip a boss phase
stiff aurora
zeus is still my favourite call because you can easilyy get the duo with aphro
worthy ember
Makes quick work of Theseus once you dismount him
I miss the old ares call
But have to admit how broken it was
next marsh
I miss the old ares call
what was it? i have only played since whatever update the fists were released.
worthy ember
I mean it was the exact same but used to last a lot longer
Basically athenas aid plus the spin
next marsh
i see
halcyon flame
easiest 32 heat setup for chiron?
true fable
I assume this is when chaos shield was still broken?
nope lol this was 1.0
true fable
easiest 32 heat setup for chiron?
check the pins, schadenfreudic should have something there
worthy ember
I like frost special on chiron with artic blast
halcyon flame
i don't exactly understand how to make an actually good heat setup depending on my weapon so i just wanted to know if this was good https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/761220441049661442/805856644902158366/Hades_106.png
stiff aurora
I like frost special on chiron with artic blast
it takes pretty great rng to get decent damage on that and once you get a duo dio or artemis completly outclasses it in terms of damage
you can meme anything obviously but if you are tryharding I would avoid it
halcyon flame
aphro builds on chiron are fun but definitely aren't ideal if you're just looking for dps^^
stiff aurora
the duo boons with artemis and dio are prohably the best damage on chiron
stiff aurora
i don't exactly understand how to make an actually good heat setup depending on ...
get completly rid of cp
halcyon flame
is rib actually good on 32 heat or should i switch to battie or shady? i'm mostly using rib for the codex but it's actually rpetty good for bosses
shy gulch
i alwys just use battie
stiff aurora
you can prohably do bp2, it is not bad when you only go FO1
shy gulch
never switched in like ages
halcyon flame
i could try putting on td3 and going for an offensive arty build
shy gulch
TD3 might honestly get rough with chiron i dont think its that fast of a weapon
you can try it out though
no harm in trying
sly remnant
Chiron is very slow
stiff aurora
TD3 takes some practice and pretty much requires a 2-sack, but if you are ok with that it is very doable
you need to learn how to use battie well though
true fable
i would take off calisthenics 100%
TD3 should be pretty possible even on chiron if you trade out DC2 and CP2
halcyon flame
sly remnant
^I agree with bright
halcyon flame
better?
sly remnant
Id personally drop dc2 for td3
true fable
i would turn on full LC4 personally
stiff aurora
that seems doable, if you can manage TD3 it makes it easier
true fable
no point in waffling here
shy gulch
75% LC u might as well just do LC4 yeah
if anything else it lets u take like CF1
which can be important
mossy zinc
Drunken Dash always applies multiple stacks, actually, and is a great way to proc Bad Influence and Privileged Status.
halcyon flame
i'm not gonna risk even getting close to enemies thank you very much
sly remnant
Id go HL5 LC4 CF0 DC0 TD3
stiff aurora
DC2 is not much of an issue for chiron, I would keep it
especially if you go with dio
true fable
dc2 still hurts more than you think it does
mossy zinc
DC2 on Chiron sucks.
shy gulch
DC2 sucks full stop
halcyon flame
ok so dc1 it is?
mossy zinc
Just do DC0 at 32.
sly remnant
DC2 makes your tartarus miserable. Attack on chiron is very important for getting out of tart in a reasonable time
true fable
let me put it this way
mossy zinc
Imagine getting Twin Shot and doing 0 damage with it. Thanks, DC2.
true fable
DC2 multiplies the effective health of every numbskull by 3
halcyon flame
ok i see
true fable
it sucks
i think a lot of people get caught up on the fact that it's technically just 2 damage
sly remnant
There is a reason in hermes cup they prioritized attack on chiron. The animation on special is so slow
When half of the thing in tart will just die to attack
DC hurts a lot
halcyon flame
but then should you just be using zag bow?
stiff aurora
chiron is better damage later
sly remnant
Nah chiron scales better
mossy zinc
People think Acorn is the best tank keepsake for boss fights and then for some reason think it's a good idea to give every enemy in the game an Acorn. That's what DC2 is.
sly remnant
Thats a good way to abstract it nyaanyaa
mossy zinc
BP2.
gaunt fiber
coming up : Pressure points and why you should pom it, by @sly remnant
halcyon flame
now i'm torn between bp2 or fo1
because i sure as hell am not used to dealing with either
sly remnant
Its losing the attack damage that hurts. Not the special damage mastrer
true fable
you dont like FO1?
sly remnant
Attack carries chiron through tart and aspho
halcyon flame
you dont like FO1?
it's the numbskulls and flame wheels for me
true fable
i hate hate hate cf2
sly remnant
^obviously I'm with bright
halcyon flame
screw it, bp2
shy gulch
im coming around on the CF2 hate train
i think CF1 is fine honestly but CF2 is leagues worse
stiff aurora
Its losing the attack damage that hurts. Not the special damage mastrer
bp2 without fo2 is really not that bad
halcyon flame
i'd rather have a very high chance of dealing with bruiser speedster flame wheels than deal with speedster flame wheels that are already 20% faster to begin with
sly remnant
bp2 without fo2 is really not that bad
I'm talking about DC. DC is what causes you to lose your attack damage
mossy zinc
Chiron's Attack should also kill Splitters and Flamewheels in Elysium, but it won't do that if you take DC.
stiff aurora
I'm talking about DC. DC is what causes you to lose your attack damage
my bad replied to the wrong thing
halcyon flame
i feel like bp2 might end up indirectly leading to what feels like dc4 lmao
true fable
with saviors?
gaunt fiber
im coming around on the CF2 hate train
Speedrunner gang abusing boons
halcyon flame
yes
shy gulch
yeah lmfao
true fable
chiron can still burst with special
shy gulch
give me my build
true fable
but the point of not taking dc2
is that you dont have to special to kill every single enemy
only the beefy ones and saviors
shy gulch
i do, which is why i dont use chiron now LUL
sly remnant
i do, which is why i dont use chiron now LUL
Same
stiff aurora
it is still doable in tartarus though, and I would prefer it over another point of HL or somehting when I have to deal with bosses
mossy zinc
Savior elites have a 1.2x difficulty mod, so you'll see fewer of them than other elites, and they only appear occasionally. That's still better than DC2.
sly remnant
HL5 FO0 is fine
edgy arrow
how many missed chances at mirage shot do i need to have in a run before its socially acceptable for me to set my computer on fire with a flamethrower
gaunt fiber
1
stiff aurora
idk 3 I guess