or I autolose on time alone
#h1-high-heat-strategies
honest kernel
rain sedge
you streaming this?
honest kernel
You under-estimate how much HP EM4 CP2 hades has
No
This was the best attempt of my session today
sly remnant
thats good progress tho
honest kernel
Still doesn't beat my 62 heat tiny vermin kill
But eh
Getting used to the danger level again
After my impromptu break
sly remnant
taking a break by taking the anyheat zeus record
rain sedge
update us on how the run goes pls
next marsh
@north dove how was talos fists 45 heat? I always wondered how best to use that aspect.
north dove
not easy, you pretty much have to dash cancel your special to get the most out of it
next marsh
that makes sense
dire steppe
talos should pull you to enemies
you probably weigh less than them anyway
mfw talos rework: all enemies are given an internal mass, magnetic cutter pulls but you and the enemy to your combine center of mass
tidal flame
I have an idea for Talos: pull enemy toward you, after a certain a combo, say 6 attacks, repel them back, dealing damage on the way back.
This way you can have some AOE with Talos while maintaining skill level because you need to aim the push.
tidal flame
heck yeah
astral robin
What is high heat? I just broke 20 with everything, does that still go in other chat?
tidal flame
You can ask question here still
There is no hard number but general people take 32 heat to be a good point as an unwritten rule.
If you need though just ask, people here can help you still
north dove
high heat is entirely subjective
dire steppe
someone posted a 1 heat victory in here
tidal flame
Nice lol
weak crescent
Do people usually go through each weapon and get to higher heat levels or do they stick with one and work up? I feel like I can handle a lot more heat than I'm using, but it's slow "leveling" all my weapons up, and I'm only using minimum needed at the moment to advance.
edgy arrow
lol remember that guy who jumped straight to doing 50 attempts as soon as he unlocked heat
genuinely inspirational
edgy arrow
32 is obviously middle heat
it’s in the middle
cursed idea: we make 32 heat 0 heat, and anything below it is negative
vital grove
Anything below it is Cold instead of Heat
edgy arrow
lol exactly
vital grove
8/16 are ice sculptures instead of statues
edgy arrow
when you do 32 heat for the first time, they melt
edgy arrow
anyway i better get started on this 24x40 thing
i gotta average 3 aspects a day for this to work
gaunt fiber
Nice
edgy arrow
yeah i turned off TD3 cause i thought it'd be a pain on chaos, but without JS3 i could've made sub 20 easy
gaunt fiber
Did you really avoid HL5 for AP1 lol
edgy arrow
rightly or wrongly i’m pretty scared of FO2 HL5
gaunt fiber
Well
Once your blood is boiling, it's HL5+ anyway 
Dad pressing the HL5 switch wether you like it or not
edgy arrow
better the HL5 switch than the double HL5 switch
gaunt fiber
Fair point
vital grove
Hl5 is better than HL10 heheh
How is deadly flourish on chaos?
Might be some good Marked synergy
edgy arrow
yeah i was running TD2 again
just screwed up at the end of the hades fight; should have had it
gaunt fiber
I definitely got better at Hades with this challenge
But it's still hard
with GY is basically the opposite, hardest part is the run
well, used to be at least
edgy arrow
yeah hades is definitely my biggest weakness
vital grove
Here's a tip without a Spear behind it
Do thunder special
Get Jolted
Let him stand in the disc while you block
vital grove
The answer is more lightning.
edgy arrow
truth
gaunt fiber
YOU LIAR
edgy arrow
okay so i took 4 hits, but the acorn wasn't broken
counts as hitless as far as i'm concerned lol
vital grove
Nice nice
edgy arrow
what's funny is i'm on 34 health regardless because of a botched suicide attempt
damn satyr got buzzsawed in the back before i died of poison
edgy arrow
objectively best pact
actually i'm not super sure on the JS3 over TD3
prolly works both ways
languid vale
Guan Yu LC4
edgy arrow
was gonna go for a deadly strike start, but beyond that not sure
vital grove
Yeah it was
edgy arrow
aphro on special for heart rend?
vital grove
gaunt fiber
~~Guan Yu LC4~~
Yes?
languid vale
Is there a way to make it work?
edgy arrow
GY LC4 is actually lowkey fine
languid vale
really?
languid vale
but LC4
gaunt fiber
Yes
edgy arrow
i mean, the real answer is you don't even need heal spins
gaunt fiber
you heal through LC4
vital grove
Yeah you don't want to be getting hit anyway
edgy arrow
still reckon i can do that one, but i'm sidetracked with 40 heat rn lol
gaunt fiber
GY LC4 RI4 is more interesting
interesting is the word indeed
languid vale
btw DC is every enemy, right
because i remember seing some enemies spawn without it
gaunt fiber
yeah FO2 would be some trouble
vital grove
DC is every enemy including bosses
gaunt fiber
btw DC is every enemy, right
yes
languid vale
Here's the setup I wanna try:
Aspect of Demeter EM4 BP2 FO2 DC2 TD2
languid vale
with HL5 that would be 31 heat if my math is correct
I guess LC1 for the 32
Don't wanna deal with HS Dad urns
gaunt fiber
You have to be brave at some point
gaunt fiber
Like @tidal flame dies room 2 in Elysium, but at least he dashes through flamewheelers or just face tank them
languid vale
CP2 would be a bad idea in that setup,right?
vital grove
Terrible
gaunt fiber
the worst idea
vital grove
You want MM
You want UC
Things that won't actively make everything you do much harder
Look at my last 40 pact image above, take out 8 heat
I recommend taking out CF and HL5
languid vale
ok so I might have just exited the furies fight with 2 HP
but at least it was sub 4 minutes
edgy arrow
annnnd first try
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/755802335112069312/801395285674819594/Hades_20_01_2021_9_17_44_PM.png
i official have a 2 win 40 heat streak lol
i'm basically bablo
anyway so i think what we've learned here is that i'm not bad at shields
halcyon flame
(almost) perma crits
chilly sun
YOOO good job dude
halcyon flame
but what if.................................................................... heart rend
edgy arrow
look
i picked up heartbreak flourish in tartarus, then had to sell it
then i wasted all my rerolls getting divine dash
and ofc apho gave me parting shot just to mess with me
edgy arrow
pretty sure the extra backstab damage only applies to casts
gaunt fiber
it should not apply to casts only
it makes your cast being able to backstab and grants you a +25% backstab damage
Should be for all backstabs
edgy arrow
lol imma have to do some testing at some point
i get so many mixed messages about how parting shot works
vital grove
As far as I know there's two parts to it
Namely the backstab bonus and the casts become able to backstab.
edgy arrow
also no heart rend smh
yeah i ended up going TD3 for zag shield as well
i had AP1 so i didn’t have to run JS, so i ended up clearing it by a decent amount
gaunt fiber
I tried so hard to get but I was too greedy : Divine flourish lead me to deadly reversal 3 times
edgy arrow
ngl i wish i was brave enough to not use divine dash at 40
halcyon flame
also no heart rend smh
heart rend is a trap
gaunt fiber
divine dash does a lot
edgy arrow
it’s probably not even necessary on shield but i spent a silly number of rerolls on it lol
then had to sell it
then got it back
gaunt fiber
But recently I've been trying not to rely on divine dash
turns out the classic dash is really good too
edgy arrow
yeah i gotta start learning to not use it soon
gaunt fiber
a trap i tell you
classic
edgy arrow
every now and then i catch myself dashing into a projectile with tidal dash or something, because my muscle memory thinks i have it all the time now
halcyon flame
why do people think tidal dash is good anyway
gaunt fiber
well you can dash through
halcyon flame
i mean the damage is decent and the t2 boons are still amazing but it really isn't worth it, i find it doing more harm than good in most cases
gaunt fiber
the damage clears styx alone
edgy arrow
for high heat divine is usually prolly better, sure, but tidal dash it amazing for speedruns
gaunt fiber
and is really helpful with aspects that struggle at dealing damage without many boons
edgy arrow
yeah
halcyon flame
maybe it's just me being really bad at staying far away from enemies with the bow in elysium
edgy arrow
bow is like, the one weapon i often skip divine dash on tbh
hunter dash is so good on it
gaunt fiber
maybe it's just me being really bad at staying far away from enemies with the bo...
You don't want to stay far away
halcyon flame
if i'm not doing merciful end i often think of there being better options than divine dash
like blade dash is obviously better for fists since the blade rifts can deal solid damage because you're constantly dashing close to your foe
edgy arrow
well, actually i usually shoot for divine on hera and chiron, hunter on zag and rama
gaunt fiber
the thing is divine dash is really good on malphon
you're gonna struggle without it at high heat
halcyon flame
divine dash is generally better for high heat, yeah
gaunt fiber
chan is high heat anyway, why should I specify
edgy arrow
should rename it to “divine dash strategies” prolly
although ig the real high heat players with AP2 be like “divine dash? imagine beating EM4 maxy with anything more than 2 toothpicks and a bottle of ketchup”
gaunt fiber
tfw when you're not a real player 
onyx venture
Don't worry Astaos, Bouldy believes in you
spring kettle
Approval process is one of the more painful 2 heat you could run
mossy zinc
"Bleep bloop."—@gaunt fiber, ca. 2021
halcyon flame
Approval process is one of the more painful 2 heat you could run
i can vouch for that
spring kettle
At least with underworld customs you generally have more useless boons you don’t mind selling
It says 9 heat, are you doing it for prophecy purposes?
mossy zinc
I like Empty Inside and Crush Shot.
gaunt fiber
"Bleep bloop."—<@238040913715265537>, ca. 2021
Seems easy to quote me, right?
dire steppe
good morning/evening heaters
gaunt fiber
Good afternoon
opal token
Would I rather have epic aphro dash or special on Beowulf? Sounds silly but that dash would do a lot of work on this weapon
And trippy flare already kills everything
vital grove
It's not bad
Applies weak and potentially sweet surrender just as you're about to bring down the smack
opal token
I’m so bad with shield 😛
tidal flame
Good noon.
opal token
Hey
mossy zinc
Passion Dash is my favorite dash.
opal token
“So bad with shield” promptly gets my fastest run ever lol. Heat 12 but it’s something
Why am I not surprised Mewmew
Haha
opal token
First chamber of asphodel with heart rend and aphro legend. If I can’t beat 32 Heat Chiron with this start...
opal token
Oh yea good thinking
gaunt fiber
my secret trick -while dying to a styx axe- is to type "Damn, got no NPC into 4 sack vermin, could not end phase 2 dad"
So people would actually think I'm an epic gamer to have that much time left after this bad luck
alpine sleet
Ah you've activated my excuse card
opal token
Lol
Yay Chiron 32 clear
Despite 5 sack and getting hit by all the Styx axes simultaneously
In a poison cloud
gaunt fiber
Man that's quite a flex right there, I would not go that far
opal token
Lol
dire steppe
6 sack?
gaunt fiber
Yeah Cerberus had the sack all along
halcyon flame
6 sack???????????????????????????///
imagine if there was a heat modifier that make it so there were more passageways in styx
so you could get even unluckier with your sack rng
waxen relic
6 Sack is when you forget that you already got the sack and search for it in the 5th path
true fable
i mean
given how the sack mechanic works
nothing would change with additional paths
except that sometimes you get 5+ sacked
like the odds of a two sack are still the same
opal token
Bright do you stream Beo under the same name?
true fable
yee
i try to post in self promos when i go live
but ive mostly been doing anyheat and multiweap speedruns so ive posted in this discord less
shy gulch
brights a fun strimmer to bully, drop a follow
true fable
some days you are the bully and others you are the bullee
daring hedge
Taking notes on which streamers to bully alongside haelian who is at the top of the list
Btw I dig the tatami galaxy icon bright
rain sedge
well, just the fists and swords remaining for my 24x40
beowulf still the hardest by far
well, until I get to zag sword I guess. still not sure if I even want to do the swords
daring hedge
You have a premier I mean casual beo player right above you
shy gulch
@true fable have you watched any other yuasa shows?
true fable
ping pong
rain sedge
yea I got advice from bright and tyler, it still took me something like 15 attempts or so
true fable
have been meaning to watch devilman
rain sedge
the rest of the weapons take mostly 1-3 tries, hades spear did took 5 tries or so
rain sedge
it was hard until I get exploding launcher then it became kinda trivial
daring hedge
Devilman is pretty good
true fable
@daring hedge i assume youre referring to yourself as a premier beo player smile
i am a mere casual
not even sub 7 smh
i should watch it
ive heard mixed things
daring hedge
Haha yes I am very good at beo, I am known for my beo plays :)
true fable
ping pong and the tatami galaxy are two of my favorite shows though
daring hedge
I don't think devilman is gonna be at the same level really
But I found it enjoyable
turbid bobcat
I don't get how these times are even possible - going as fast as I can, I can barely get sub 20
shy gulch
a lot of it is knowledge of good builds and just knowing things about the game, and the rest is uh. us shoving many, many hours in this game
tidal flame
Mirror and aspects also help a decent amount in shrinking your time. The rest is practice and learning, really.
daring hedge
And keep in mind IGT time can be brought down pretty hard with frequent pauses
tidal flame
I used to struggle to get sub 20, but now it seems trivial on 32- heat.
rain sedge
you can get sub 10 consistently by being skilled, lower and lower time exponentially relies on luck
shy gulch
oh yeah pausing is something ive gotten a habit of now but i didnt realize u could just. do that. when i started
tidal flame
And yeah, IGT is very different from RTA
rain sedge
getting world record will require a minimum threshold of speedrunning skills and extraordinary room/spawn/sac/boon luck
tidal flame
Schrodinger's Thanatos
true fable
i can consistently sub 9 schad
consistent sub 7 is a myth
i think consistent sub 8 is possible
dire steppe
i live in my own world so i have the any heat WR at 13 minutes
edgy arrow
my pro speedrunning strat is to do weird runs no one else is doing so there’s no competition
pretty sure i still have the dashless chaos wr
mossy zinc
That works until Tailesque or bablo see what you're doing.
edgy arrow
shhh don’t tell them
mossy zinc
Hmm? What should I not tell @daring hedge?
edgy arrow
rip my life is ruined now
actually he seemed vaguely interested in trying dashless the last time i mentioned it
dunno if he ever did tho
mossy zinc
Why didn't you clip it?
turbid bobcat
try wasd-less run: attack in direction + dodge to move in different directions
ripe crane
Why didn't you clip it?
mossy zinc
Why didn't you know how to clip it?
edgy arrow
try wasd-less run: attack in direction + dodge to move in different directions
okay i just realised: mouse only chaos
move using only bull rush
ripe crane
Press the clip button
mossy zinc
Why did you never learn how to?
tidal flame
Because Nyaa is mean
daring hedge
Wait which call out because haelian has called me out several times
tidal flame
Wait which call out because haelian has called me out several times
The one where he says that you wait for a WR to be done then break it 2 hours later lol
rain sedge
it's the time he tried 59 heat and said you'll barrel roll him
tidal flame
Yeah
daring hedge
Oh lol
dire steppe
okay i just realised: mouse only chaos
me who has dash on MMB: it’s free real estate
edgy arrow
wait did haelian beat 59 heat
shy gulch
i dont think so
edgy arrow
oh lol that would have been kind of a big deal for me to miss
dire steppe
ok but what if you played through the entire game (- eurydice and sytx) with only attack and bull rush and everything else unbound
edgy arrow
lol honestly just cramming all the buttons onto the mouse sounds like a challenge in and of itself
dire steppe
that sounds easy if you have one of those gamer mouses with 12 buttons
i have a $1.99 wired mouse
edgy arrow
fair
true fable
pseudo beat the game without attack dash special or cast
im sure some other things are possible
edgy arrow
thumb buttons are genuinely the best investment i ever made
turbid bobcat
revenge?
true fable
call and revenge boons
silk blaze
Traps, call, revenge
turbid bobcat
wow
dire steppe
what if you allow dash but only if it’s boonless dash
edgy arrow
call only is something i’ve been wondering about for a while
dire steppe
that might make it better
edgy arrow
it’s theoretically possible
true fable
and summon
edgy arrow
but probably impractical without routing
dire steppe
you’d need quick favor
turbid bobcat
call only would have to be with smoldering air, and like poseidon + rip current, or something
edgy arrow
doesn’t really matter what call, so long as it does damage
dire steppe
can you get zeus aid as first boon
turbid bobcat
smoldering air solves the issue
true fable
stubborn defiance
true fable
yah
dire steppe
lol you might want bouldy summon
edgy arrow
yeah smouldering is at three rooms in at the least
one could be a fountain maybe
but yeah as i said; theoretically possible
dire steppe
you can trap kill too
edgy arrow
yeah i reckon allowing summon for the first couple of rooms is fine
true fable
yeah pseudo used revenge boons too
edgy arrow
but it’s technically possible without it
shy gulch
and i believe dusa summon?
true fable
yeah
mossy zinc
So it was only pseudo-done.
mossy zinc
Dash Nova is good.
edgy arrow
is it tho
turbid bobcat
spamming dash nova + dash is funny
shy gulch
pls no
dash nova actually kinda gives me a headache
the way it jumps just looks so sudden and weird
edgy arrow
i mean, it probably is good?
turbid bobcat
if you spam both as fast as possible, you either go flying across the room, or teleport around due to glitchiness
edgy arrow
idk the inputs almost seem weird
mossy zinc
They changed Snap Nova to Dash Nova because it was making a lot of people motion sick.
edgy arrow
i keep ending up dash novaing the wrong way for some reason
mossy zinc
m pretty sure at least that was the reason. There were a lot of complaints about that in Early Access.
It was also always kind of buggy.
edgy arrow
yeah it’s definitely better than it was then
mossy zinc
i keep ending up dash novaing the wrong way for some reason
Maybe you press Special before you tilt your stick? That can happen with dashes, too.
edgy arrow
i’m on KBM
true fable
what did snap nova actually do?
edgy arrow
i don’t have the issue with regular dashes
at least, not very often
i probably just need to get used to the timings idk
mossy zinc
Snap Nova was Dash Nova but with 70 base damage and no Sturdy, and if you pressed Special again within a short window, you would "snap" back to your original position.
edgy arrow
^
true fable
????
edgy arrow
it was horrifying
true fable
why tho
mossy zinc
It was really really good.
mossy zinc
Window was lenient enough that you could do like Special > Dash > Dash > snapback.
edgy arrow
she defended it the whole time
true fable
so you just always snap?
mossy zinc
I wasn't the only one lol.
prime lintel
mossy zinc
You could totally abuse the i-frames and positioning to no-hit any chamber easily.
Well, it took some practice though to really make use of it.
Which is where most people just seemed to have no interest in putting in any practice lol.
edgy arrow
it was prolly the practice part most of us weren’t willing to do
indeed lol
practicing? to get good at something? what is this, a learning the lyre simulator?
mossy zinc
I think a lot of people tried it one time, died or just barely made it because they got confused, and then never picked it again lol.
shy plinth
But weren't you telling everyone it was strong af
mossy zinc
Me and Manthro, and no one listened really.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Or they said they didn't wanna put in the practice.
turbid bobcat
Snap Nova was Dash Nova but with 70 base damage and no Sturdy, and if you presse...
wait, I've done that with dash nova before by spamming dash and special at the same time super fast - I thought that was just a glitch or something, but maybe it reverts to snap nova if you bug it out by spamming both
mossy zinc
Nah it's just glitched and can teleport you in some odd situations lol. Snap Nova was kinda bugged like that, too.
shy plinth
I wish there was an archive of all the old boons and hammers that aren't in the game
Like I want to read what people thought of Final Round
daring hedge
there used to be a hammer called serrated edge and it was the same as serrated point
the end
mossy zinc
I remember that one.
shy plinth
That sounds kinda pointless
shy gulch
thank u tail
mossy zinc
Edgy, though.
shy plinth
Did that work with arthur?
waxen relic
Arthur isn't that old
but i don't remember serrated edge, probably just forgot though
mossy zinc
It was Serrated Edge in Long Winter, and I think they changed the name in Nighty Night.
waxen relic
my memory replaces names instead of storing both then
mossy zinc
Efficient.
daring hedge
i still kept calling it edge for a while even after it changed to point lol
mossy zinc
Double Point and Serrated Edge.
Double Point and Triple Edge.
So many alternate timelines.
turbid bobcat
quintuple edge
tidal flame
It was Serrated Edge in Long Winter, and I think they changed the name in Nighty...
It was still Serrated Edge in Nighty Night I think because that's how I first learnt about it.
I think the name was changed in Blood Price rather
shy plinth
If you think about it flurry fire is really octodeca shot
dire steppe
was on pb pace... 5 sacqked
tidal flame
mossy zinc
Did you start the run with the Eternal Rose?
tidal flame
Does Eternal Rose guarantee 2 sack?
turbid bobcat
imagine a satyr sack keepsake - you have to have it the entire run, but then you can just give it to Cerberus immediately
tidal flame
Bots are metal though
gaunt fiber
That one
tidal flame
The implication though
tidal flame
plz no cyberbulli
kids these days smh
back in my time I just get punched in the face instead
mossy zinc
I don't remember punching you in the face. 
silk blaze
Is there a recommended list of mirror options for 32+ heat somewhere?
silk blaze
I know stubborn defiance is a given
shy gulch
stubborn if ur using a lot of LC
dark foresight and fated persuasion always
the rest are weapon / build dependent imo
shy gulch
well aside from like thick skin, and deep pockets
tidal flame
It really depends on your playstyle
the only ones that aren't changed usually is shadow presence, dark foresight
shy gulch
I like FF but PS is fine on some builds ig
true fable
fiery is good for some weapons foxhope
shy gulch
yes
true fable
yes
tidal flame
I think shadow is more consistent for bosses
shy gulch
hestia and beowulf off the top of my head
shy gulch
some things can’t backstab either so like
true fable
its for tart/aspho room clear
tidal flame
I mean I'm still not convinced
true fable
play some beowulf with and without it
tidal flame
ok sure, for beowulf
shy gulch
hestia always wants fiery as well
true fable
hestia it lets you one shot mobs instead of two shotting them
thats a lot of timesave
shy gulch
I mean
a timer still exists
and you still want to one shot thinfs
for safety anyways
true fable
whats the argument for shadow then
shy gulch
it definitely can?
true fable
if not timesave vs bosses
tidal flame
if anything you save time on bosses for later biomes on hestia
true fable
what im getting at is that shadow is not an autopick by any means
until you start adding DC
shy gulch
it just depends on the weapon and build
mossy zinc
Serrated Knuckle.
shy gulch
we never were saying that fiery is always better
tidal flame
Guess we can agree to agree
mossy zinc
Serrated Cutter.
true fable
i think deep pockets thick skin are the usual for me
shy gulch
same
true fable
stygian if youre not running an infernal cast build
shy gulch
those and dark foresight I never switch when doing high hea
tidal flame
I take golden touch because CF
shy gulch
oh and persuasion
tidal flame
true fable
why
mossy zinc
Because you can throw casts in your rotation.
tidal flame
Can't you do that with stygian?
mossy zinc
But not as freely.
tidal flame
true fable
ill take any chance i can get for greater reflex/hyper delivery
its not worth the additional damage from zag cast or whatever garbo cast i pick up along the way
shy gulch
do you throw your casts often enough that it’s worth it? the downtime on Stygian regen isn’t too much imo for non cast builds and the hermes benefit is nice
and yeah without investing in it I don’t find casts do too much dmg
mossy zinc
Yeah for sure I use Cast a lot.
Mini sword guide:
Sword Combos/Technique
This section is meant to be an intro to Sword mechanics. There is far too much to go into in a single section of a guide. Hopefully soon there will be a full guide on how to use the Sword effectively, but this will give you a solid starting point.There are 3 main attacks that we will be using on the Sword: Special, Cast, and Dash-strike. These can be tied together in various combinations depending on which enemy you are facing.
- Special -> Dash-strike (-> Dash-strike) -- This is the OG sword combo. It is fast, mobile, and will deal 80/110 damage in a very short amount of time.
- Cast -> Dash-strike (-> Dash-strike) -- This is the new and improved sword combo. It still does 80/110 damage, but it does it even faster.
- Cast -> Dash-strike -> Special -> Dash-strike -- This combo will very quickly tear down a Thug.
- Special -> Cast -> Dash-strike (-> Dash-strike) -- I use this combo a lot on many weapons. It adds almost no extra time to your normal combo, but it gives you an extra 50 damage.
- Special -> Immediate Dash -- Hitting the dash button immediately after specialling will cause you to dash and then special where you finish dashing. It can be incredibly useful for clearing out enemies that would otherwise interrupt your special animation, such as numbskulls or witches.
At all times, make sure you are keeping track of where you’re going next. At the end of your combos, your dash is going to be on cooldown. Few things are as annoying as realizing you’re on the wrong side of the room and your single dash is on cooldown.
With Dash-Strikes, your window to buffer a dash-strike is somewhat large. You can get away with hitting dash and attack at the same time, but separating the inputs can give you quite a bit more control. For example, there are many cases where an enemy is just out of reach of your dash-strike. If you complete a full dash and then attack, you will get some extra reach to your dash-strike.
From @lucid coyote.
It's even more important on Varatha because spear Special is garbage.
shy gulch
yeah but even when I do use my cast in rotation I find the 3 sec cool down isn’t that big of a deal, and I’d rather not chase casts on a non cast wep
for sword at least
I don’t really use spear enough to say
mossy zinc
Since you kill enemies in melee range, you just pick up lodged casts naturally.
silk blaze
I hadn’t even thought an about classifying sword combos but that makes sense with high tight deadline
mossy zinc
ill take any chance i can get for greater reflex/hyper delivery
I think Hyper Delivery requires too many things to fall into place anyway. It's obviously super powerful, but you don't really see it that often especially when you add AP or RI.
true fable
thats fair
with AP2 i was thinking more for greatest reflex but
if you value more stones i can see that
mossy zinc
I want consistency.
The higher you can raise your minimum DPS, the more consistency you'll have in your runs.
It's not like m anywhere near optimal with room clearing anyway, but I notice my sword and spear runs are noticeably faster with Infernal Soul.
"I notice they're noticeably . . ." it's 11:13 PM. 
zenith lance
Are there specific things you should pick from the mirror when you are trying to get a run under 10mins
true fable
check the beginners guide on speedrun.com
zenith lance
K thanks
zenith lance
Im so close to reaching sub 10mins
zenith lance
Have to improve my time about 50 secs
mossy zinc
Sounds like you're on the right track.
Just gotta optimize things get more free chambers.
spring kettle
What kinda person turns on AP2?
Enjoy never getting duos and legendaries and gods in the core slot you don’t want them in
mossy zinc
AP2 is fun.
honest kernel
Charged for sure
It's a LOT of damage
And it plays perfectly into what beo does : Nuking stuff
Also makes the cast ranged
Basically turn into a better version of Hera
lol
opal token
Thanks!
lucid coyote
I do run Stygian on Nemesis for the removal of Flurry Cast and Lightning Rod from the pool, and making Ravenous Will have basically 100% uptime
That kind of looked like it was being talked about
Also I don't play high heat, so I dunno how useful that information is
shy gulch
that was indeed talked about
torpid frigate
spring kettle
Don’t worry, you’ll get Patty
tidal flame
lmao
silk blaze
That’s what my 32 heat attempts felt like earlier
tidal flame
try again
silk blaze
Furies are a problem once again, finally
silk blaze
That’s true, my only other problem with furies was running up against tight deadline 3, which is part of why I went down. May do 32 without it but it seems good to get used to
I just beat Alecto with 2 and half minutes left with the nemesis sword, maybe I should’ve tried for more heat this run
opal token
I def just companion Alecto last stage on 32 heat. I probably shouldn’t but it works
wanton plover
yes i also do that
i struggle the most in tart and using companion on the boss saves some time
thorn jay
For 32 heat, EM2 FO1 or EM3?
torn remnant
thorn jay
Yeah thought so
edgy arrow
right! back to work on 24x40
gonna get all rails done today
yes i'm starting with the easy aspects don't judge me
halcyon flame
I def just companion Alecto last stage on 32 heat. I probably shouldn’t but it w...
can't you just lure her into the spike traps?
shell imp
is the Pierced Butterfly additive, or multiplicative?
halcyon flame
what happens if i turn on UC but i don't have any boons to sell?
edgy arrow
is the Pierced Butterfly additive, or multiplicative?
additive
basically everything in this game is additive, with a handful of exceptions (hammers that refer to base damage and crits being the main ones)
vital grove
Crits take all your added up damage and then multiply that, right?
With a base of x3
Heart Rend and Clean Kill can improve that
Hey what happens if you immediately Mort the heroes?
I haven't used Mort at all lol
Does he hit
halcyon flame
i mean it only does anything if they're actually standing in the circle
vital grove
Yeah of course the question is do they remain long enough at the start of the fight
Like how you can instantly Meg them
halcyon flame
you can just stand in the middle of the circle i guess
just make sure theseus is close and uses his spin attack or whatever
halcyon flame
mort is probably better for particularly difficult normal encounters
edgy arrow
this game thinks i'm playing a different rail aspect
just had deadly strike crossed out three times in a row, then epic lightning strike offered
like... no
gaunt fiber
should work
edgy arrow
i should just play hestia as budget zag rail
seems optimal
so epic attack speed with do nothing for hestia, right?
gaunt fiber
I don't know anything about rail mate
edgy arrow
cool good to know
solemn pulsar
imagine if hestia had a "cut reload time in half" hmmaer
edgy arrow
that sounds balanced
edgy arrow
alright if i 2 sack rn hestia's in the bag easy
finally
lol no 2 sack
rip patty buff
made it
lost count how many tries lol
think it was 5 or 6
also for some reason i thought an athena DD only replenishes 30% when you're running SD?
apparently they're even better than i thought
opal token
Should I replace Epic Crush Shot with Heroic Phalanx on Hera?
rain sedge
what heat, and is zeus in your god pool?
opal token
Zeus yes and 27 Heat. Got tired of 32 and getting owned lol
rain sedge
god's pride or legacy?
opal token
Tartarus, room 9
rain sedge
basically we're asking this because it can lead to lightning phalanx which is great
opal token
And uhh... Pride
rain sedge
take it
sly remnant
take it i think.
rain sedge
roll for the lightning phalanxes
opal token
Yeah no I think it’s interesting. Thanks.
Just triple shot, aphro cast, Zeus special right now
And there’s only Holy shield or bronze skin alternatives
Or roll for dash
halcyon flame
if you already have zeus special you could easily get lightning phalanx
sly remnant
just fyi hera's interaction with phalanx shot is a bit weird
it summons the shot at the end point of the arrow
opal token
Oh yeah weird
halcyon flame
or if it hits an enemy
vital grove
Or if it hits a wall, it can bounce with Phalanx
rain sedge
so uh
never take tempest flourish with demeter fist
because the first hit of the special knocks enemies back and... the subsequent hits never hit
upbeat cedar
the charged special hammer and kinetic launcher can make it workabl
but not exactly ideal
waxen relic
because the first hit of the special knocks enemies back and... the subsequent h...
Just trigger it when the enemy is in front of a wall. You'll get more damage that way too. 
true fable
what did you think would happen
rain sedge
well I was just filling the special slot so I can get splitting bolt
and I thought, cool, I have 40% wave pounding already
so.... yea
true fable
hm
rain sedge
still got the kill though so, all's well that ends well?
upbeat cedar
Charged Special works pretty well so long as you rememeber to keep the hitbox as lorj as possible
true fable
schad moment
rain sedge
wow
so mean
I'm 5 aspects away from 24x40 btw
I think it was you who started the movement
true fable
think technically bablo
halcyon flame
what's 24x40?
sly remnant
24 aspects at 40 heat
halcyon flame
yeah i'm... not doing that
halcyon flame
the extra dashes should provide more than enough i-frames
solemn pulsar
i just don't want to
big mood
quartz mantle
what's 24x40?
960
rain sedge
well I was thinking that too, but
with the sea storm nerf, it feels like I might as well fish for ME
spiral island
divine dash best dash
sly remnant
you don't need sea storm
rain sedge
at 40 I feel like that's necessary
spiral island
Fists are one of my favourite weapons
daring hedge
blade dash is insanely good with just decent rarity or some poms, and gilga ruthless reflex+maim making them even stronger very often
opal token
For Zeus eris: Piercing fire, Explosive, or Seeking?
All mediocre options
But piercing right?
Which is better seeking vs explosive?
sly remnant
probs seeking. but yea i agree piercing is the choice there
@rain sedge eris questions
opal token
Ty
true fable
piercing is the least harmful
explosive makes enemies stunned and unable to proc jolted
seeking makes your bullets non hitscan lol
like just
why
rain sedge
I take the piercing for the armor bonus here
rain sedge
does ruthless reflex has an indicator when I have it?
I'm trying the blade dash thingy again
shy gulch
what’s hitscan
tidal flame
what’s hitscan
I want to know, too tbh. If hit scan is what it is from FPS, MKB is fine, but having pure hit scan is bad on controller, no?
sly remnant
thorn jay
Just wanna share, im at 32 heat and right before lernie, using zag bow, i got heartbreaker strike, hunter dash, heart rend, hyper sprint, rush delivery, chaos boon increasing dash strike, chaos boon increasing attack, and 4% increased attack from bouldy lol. I hope i dont mess this run up
Oh and twin shot
sly remnant
you got this. no problem
thorn jay
Yeah, even though none of those boons are epic it still adds up to one of the strongest builds i RNG'd upon
Thanks guys
thorn jay
With my set up, Perfect shot or Explosive shot?
rain sedge
isnt explosive shot literally the worst hammer?
tidal flame
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan#:~:text=A%20hitscan%20in%20computer%20game...
I get what hitscan is but I don't get why removing hitscan is a bad thing on Hestia
thorn jay
Yeah. I thought so. 300% dmg increase is blurs my vision lmao. But yeah i remember i always fail my run because i stay in one spot way too long and take so much damage with zag bow
tidal flame
From what I know, you essentially get more aim assist on Seeking Fire compared to whatever you already have on Controller.
thorn jay
Holy crap i even got patty on elysium
daring hedge
you have such an ideal setup, you've got this
rain sedge
is this your first 32?
thorn jay
Nah, ive done 32 on chiron and hera
But for both, i got divine dash which made things so much easier
For this run im forcing myself on hunter dash so cant afford the protection divine dash offers
dire steppe
@daring hedge if you had triple shot and were AP1 offered chain or explosive what would you take
daring hedge
on which bow
dire steppe
rama
daring hedge
rama? explosive, weirdly enough because chain mostly ruins triple shot
and makes shotguns unreasonably hard to do
daring hedge
with triple explosive you can still pretty much spam dash-strikes without charging and the fact that you have triple shot carries explosive being... how it is
thorn jay
Is there a way to guarantee or at least increase the chance of a 2 sack? Like maybe choosing rooms with a skull?
rain sedge
it's less risk too
dire steppe
You can guarantee 5 sack by being on WR pace
sly remnant
or retrash with nem at 57 heat
dire steppe
thats nemesis wr
tidal flame
What are you doing?
rain sedge
I am so not looking forward to the sword 40s
gilga 40
my last 4 aspect is gilga, nem, zag sword, and arthur
this is gonna be miserable
tidal flame
God bless
thorn jay
3 sack good enough
Done with my 32 heat zag bow. Rama last though ive only used this for one run ever haha
spring kettle
Rama is a really good bow to use
No wonder why Tailesque used it for his 60 heat run
rain sedge
funny, I said the exact same thing yesterday
opal token
lol set up for Merciful End or vengeful duo and spend rerolls on boss ares and get nothing so do a bonus Athena door and get....Lightning Phalanx....
And promptly lose to hades
Rip more 32 heat runs lol
Troll game
thorn jay
Yeah, i just feel very slow on it
turbid bobcat
hm, just had a silly thought, but what if for 64 heat, you used a sword with cursed slash, bypassing the timer by healing constantly with your sword, so that the many tough enemies and short timer isn't an issue
spring kettle
you'd have to luck into flurry + cursed + attack speed from hermes
opal token
On Rama? Like Aphro attack with Zeus/ares special maybe
spring kettle
AP2 means you'd have to get lucky with getting a combo of boons
opal token
Hunter dash works on rama too
daring hedge
deadly strike is usually better than heartbreak over the full run
opal token
Do whatever tailesque says and ignore me. Haha
spring kettle
does deadly strike scale more over the course of the run or because it crits?
daring hedge
yeah, you typically end up with additive increases that push it over heartbreak
perfect shot, point blank, hunter dash etc.
rain sedge
on 32 you can just do whatever you want too
heart rend works
splitting headache works
daring hedge
and shared suffering damage takes crits into account which is pretty great
rain sedge
zeus on special works
spring kettle
I just try to chuck some sort of status effect on special for rama
thorn jay
Even on zag bow, deadly strike>heartbreaker strike or is it just for rama bow?
spring kettle
I end up with zeus on special a lot tho
Zag bow has innate crit chance too, which helps
thorn jay
Yeah, that's why I thought heartbreaker strike is better because of diminishing returns on crit but I'm not so sure how the formula for crit really is here so idk
sly remnant
in general crits just scale better if you get decent hammer and build the weapon well
there's always exceptions but in general crit = good
heartbreak is an excellent second choice tho
thorn jay
Yeah, so since Zag bow got innate crit so aphro attack is better?
sly remnant
nope
thorn jay
Or still arty?
sly remnant
its crit chance is still low
thorn jay
I see
rain sedge
tyler
sly remnant
increasing the crits you get by 100% is good
rain sedge
does the weak gets applied after the damage, or before?
daring hedge
if you mean in terms of activating sweet surrender, the first hit will not benefit pretty sure
sly remnant
^
rain sedge
I was thinking more of heart rend
sly remnant
nah same rule applies
daring hedge
yeah
rain sedge
because if the weak gets activated first, then there's an argument that using heartbreak strike might give more DPS, since you don't have to apply weak
but if not, then yeah, always arty
rain sedge
no, I'm saying, then there's a situation where on your first attack, you already deal 350% crit
which is better than dashing/specialing to apply the weak
daring hedge
you mean 450%
rain sedge
but since the damage gets done before the weak, my argument is moot anyway
eh yeah 450%
sly remnant
even if it worked that way its still only a 15% chance to crit
as opposed to a 30%
literally half as effective
again
heartbreak is an excellent second option
its very good
its just not arti good
thorn jay
So i've been doing it wrong the entire time. All this time I had to luck into getting two arty boons hunter dash+prerequisite for heart rend when I could've just gone with arty attack+aphro special/dash
sly remnant
yes
thorn jay
Welp
sly remnant
no its not
for every boon slot you should have second and third options
aphro is just second
theres nothing wrong with that
higher than 6 other gods
daring hedge
aphro is just second
nyaanyaa is going to fight you for this
rain sedge
nyaanyaa is going to fight you for this
if we're being real I'm surprised she's not here yet
daring hedge
a tale as old as time
rain sedge
wow I dont think I've beaten my controller this hard since that first sword 40
this gilgamesh is driving me nuts
advice for a more consistent strat dear friends?
nevermind screw consistency
sly remnant
Snake scary
rain sedge
the blue heads are uh, quite special
sly remnant
As I said
Lernie head rng is one of my least favorite parts of hades
Just because blue heads are so much more dangerous than the others
rain sedge
I think in this case, the ME grind is my least favourite part
but yeah, 1 blue head... fine. 2... hard. 3+ is just losing the bablo tooth
NMOOOOOOO
ATHENA KILLED ME ON TRIAL
summoned a whole bunch of greatshield
good god this is the worst weapon
sly remnant
If you are full build i feel like trials are a gamble you don't need