And even then, BP can throw that out the window
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
There is some RNG in the sense that if a Speeder Wringer spawns right next to you, you're getting grabbed lol. Ain't your fault. Some things like that can happen for sure.
stiff aurora
I would go fo1 though, it is not nearly as hard as fo2 and it's still 3 heat.
honest kernel
Part of the reason why Stubborn Defiance is so popular at high heat, TBH
vital grove
And the aforementioned bows with F02 speed damage are death
honest kernel
FO1 is a fine middleground, but still takes some getting used to
stiff aurora
He is already used to it though
mossy zinc
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3 is what I generally recommend at 32, and that's been very successful for a lot of people.
mossy zinc
If you're used to FO, taking it off is gonna make things even easier.
honest kernel
^
thorn jay
Oh but i guess I can take stubborn defiance
honest kernel
VERY much easier
thorn jay
Yeah I play with FO1 all the time
honest kernel
Stubborn Defiance is the plan with LC
thorn jay
But only at 20 heat
mossy zinc
HL5 is fine because FO0 means enemies are gonna be very slow.
honest kernel
Also doesn't FO boost damage as well
stiff aurora
Only with stuff like lasers
stiff aurora
"Only"
Only in the sense that it is a subset of all enemies, not that it is no threat
honest kernel
oh I meant that for my own comment
thorn jay
Oh btw, is there any reason to go hera over chiron for beginners at high heat? Aside from whichever you're more used to.
mossy zinc
Yeah, Baj was talking to himself. Must be lonely up there when Tailesque is not around.
thorn jay
Are you an extremely high heat runner?
stiff aurora
Oh btw, is there any reason to go hera over chiron for beginners at high heat? A...
They build completly different, just go for whichever you like
thorn jay
God damn
Thanks a lot for your help guys. Very accommodating bunch. I'll go do some practice runs now
mossy zinc
Lady Aphrodite likes Chiron more, so Chiron is the obvious choice. 
honest kernel
@mossy zinc Honestly ? I'll probably try more Aphrodite starts for my 62 heat attempts
And see how it goes
Gonna have to compare to Zeus, but one does damage, the other does damage AND is effective HP
... I could try her out with DDs. Won't have to depend on Skull Earing as much for damage
mossy zinc
Hmmm. I think at 62, Lightning and Hangover are probably #1 just for the extra hits. DC2 tanks a lot of damage. Hard to say.
honest kernel
Yeah
EM4 also an annoying obstacle
I could try Zeus -> Aphrodite keepsake
For Tart and Asphodel
honest kernel
I usually go Zeus -> Skull Earing instead
mossy zinc
Chance for Smoldering Air, too, even if low.
mossy zinc
Low chance for Smoldering Air is better than no chance.
Yeah, odds in any particular run are low, but you'll definitely see some Duo Boons over a few runs.
honest kernel
I'm liking it more and more by the minute honestly
Will try it out soonTM with DDs
honest kernel
Smoldering Air is a nice bonus
I just want Zeus' damage and Aphrodite's damage + safety
mossy zinc
So, Smoldering Air and Epic Second Wind. Got it.
honest kernel
I don't need the weak effect early, but starting in Elysium, it's a lot more important
mossy zinc
Weak effect early can mean you get to Elysium with more HP.
mossy zinc
Maybe the strat is RI4 DC0 with Weak. 
honest kernel
... Not that bad of an idea LOL
mossy zinc
I was only 20% joking lol.
honest kernel
For real, I was mostly relying on Skull Earing to carry me
With EM4 in the way, that's gonna be quite a hurdle to still have the earing on
Instead of say Broken Spearpoint or Skelly Tooth
It was one of my main concerns
Having to play super safe against EM4 for 5+ minutes is asking for a LOT
gaunt fiber
You should go Stubborn roots Skelly tooth for infinite hps
gaunt fiber
sure
stiff aurora
SR doesn't start if you still have tooth left, does it?
honest kernel
AKA, where the frick is your damage
gaunt fiber
well
honest kernel
Survivability means little if you die to the timer
honest kernel
Won't cut it I'm afraid
gaunt fiber
Divine flourish should be some damage tho? I have some runs where deflect is my main dps
stiff aurora
Just do a ME build, get athena dash and replace whichever of attack and special was athena with demeter
gaunt fiber
until ely I mean
gaunt fiber
yeah the % is no bueno
honest kernel
Deflect is ok I guess, but not enough to make up for that
You take it for Deadly Reversal and Merciful End
gaunt fiber
rip
honest kernel
That's about it lol
honest kernel
Just do a ME build, get athena dash and replace whichever of attack and special ...
The one time I actually got ME I died in the next room
Coincidence ? I THINK NOT
stiff aurora
Just try having more luck then
honest kernel
I'm tryiiiing
sly remnant
Arti Best Girl
stiff aurora
Mooooooods
gaunt fiber
Must be hard
solemn pulsar
So frost flourish damage actually isn’t the worst thing in the world
Slowdown on EM4 might be useful
But probably too slow in rooms I feel
dire steppe
what does patty even give you on ri4 btw
edgy arrow
you still get the other two options
waxen relic
Hydra-Lite Gold
mossy zinc
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sly remnant
its not there
waxen relic
The top thing is hydra lite. There's just empty space in the 3rd row
dire steppe
doens eurydice only offer you nectar if you have 0 boons
edgy arrow
good question
halcyon flame
i think it just does nothing
edgy arrow
if you pick up a pom with no boons you get gold, so maybe lol porridge does that?
ah
well, it’s not like gold really does that much for boonless anyway
halcyon flame
like if you have less than 4 boons that can be leveled up and take pom porridge it only levels up the boons that you do have by one each
halcyon flame
i'd guess nothing happens if you take the porridge and have no boons you can level up
edgy arrow
i haven’t seen her on any of my like, 3 boonless runs
so i got nothing
yeah most likely it is just nothing tho
waxen relic
btw as i've found out, Patty will still not offer DDs if you have Skelly Tooth
halcyon flame
?
waxen relic
I hoped to let him refill my Skelly tooth Defiance while using RI4. He didn't want to.
mossy zinc
Rude.
dire steppe
if you lose all 3 dds and skelly tooth does patty refill the tooth too
dire steppe
and does that stay forever like charon tooth
edgy arrow
wym
wait if you take tooth, lose it, get a kiss of styx and then swap out tooth you keep the DD?
huh
vital grove
It does say ALL defiances.
edgy arrow
guess i’m too deep in the SD rabbit hole to know these things
halcyon flame
tips for consistently doing sub 20?
halcyon flame
how much time does td3 give you?
sly remnant
TD3 forces you to optimize your play on weapons
edgy arrow
20 mins
sly remnant
5 mins/biome
vital grove
TD3 is pretty fair all in all
edgy arrow
the biggest thing to start with is just taking as many free rooms as you can
halcyon flame
i feel like i tend to get screwed over by large rooms when i'm trying to go fast
edgy arrow
always take chaos
vital grove
You won't make it if your dps sucks on a 5 sack that's about it
edgy arrow
watch the time, and if it’s running close take a midshop even if you’re broke
halcyon flame
i go to one side looking for enemies and turns out they're at the other side
vital grove
Always take mid shop, usually take chaos.
halcyon flame
except for tiny vermin
edgy arrow
minibosses go very fast if you summon on them
vital grove
Yeah Achilles especially deletes minibosses
edgy arrow
tiny vermin comes up very rarely; its more than worth it to go with styx miniboss rooms
even if you do get the rat, it’s not really longer than a standard styx room
sly remnant
learning how to move through different room tiles efficiently towards the door as well as controlling enemy spawns is something that will help you at all levels of hades play
halcyon flame
is it also a really bad idea to take ruthless reflex or does not having a double-dash not make too much of an impact
sly remnant
wriste's speedrun basics guide i'll link it
edgy arrow
not have two dashes makes a massive impact
ruthless reflex isn’t worth it
even speedruns use 2 dashes
sly remnant
ruthless reflex is making a comeback right now, but i agree greater reflex is more generally useful
halcyon flame
i feel like ruthless is better for fists
edgy arrow
sure, but even in a comeback it’s pretty niche
halcyon flame
mainly for how i tend to double-dash by accident
sly remnant
edgy arrow
i feel like ruthless is better for fists
fists need all the i-frames they can get tbh
halcyon flame
which is why i use zag aspect
generally when i'm doing fists i go for lambent plume and hope to get greater evasion, preferably rare or epic
are there other keepsakes that are good for fists?
halcyon flame
play lame win game amirite
edgy arrow
hestia is actually not a bad idea
halcyon flame
i don't think ruthless suits ranged weapons at all
edgy arrow
i might give that a try
sly remnant
in general tho @vital grove you want move towards the door and stand in corners. the spawn rng tries to spawn it in view so the door so you can exit quickly and the corner forces them to group together for AoE
halcyon flame
you're not gonna be using your i-frames to dodge attacks if you're already actively using your dash to simply avoid enemies
edgy arrow
lol if you manage to get too far away from the enemy to need to dodge attacks then you’re not running enough heat
sly remnant
ruthless owns on beowulf. its the original weapon i started experimenting with it on
halcyon flame
if the game usually tries to spawn enemies anywhere within your field of view than what's up with asphodel and enemies spawning miles offscreen?
edgy arrow
guess i’ll have to give that a shot as well
sly remnant
casts do not have easy access to + damage
edgy arrow
true
yeah i just never considered it before
i’m trying to learning to play with one dash for RI4 anyway, so it’s good practice
halcyon flame
i swear in asphodel enemies are always spawning in places where it's hard for me to actually find them
edgy arrow
that used to happen to me
then i realised they always spawn in the same places i can’t see
halcyon flame
the fact that they all jump 20 meters away from you if you don't get close fast enough really doesn't help
edgy arrow
truth
sly remnant
asphodel has the hardest tile set and the most mobile enemies. it takes a lot of time to learn not to chase too much and just go to the door
halcyon flame
asphodel isn't hard but the enemies are just annoying as hell to fight
edgy arrow
do they annoy me? hell yes
sly remnant
hardest tile set means most difficult to control. sorry should have specified
edgy arrow
yeah my aspho times are still super variable
sly remnant
part of that is aspho itself. its so easy to miss midshop
halcyon flame
so ideally i just head straight to where the rafts are and wait till all the enemies are close enough
edgy arrow
yeah and on the other hand, with really good room rng you can basically skip 80% of the zone
sly remnant
its a constant tug-of-war between killing enemies and getting towards the door
dire steppe
if you get chaos fountain eury and midshop then asphodel is 2 chambers lol
edgy arrow
and considering power couple is barely an encounter...
well, in theory at least
i mess up the meg timing there more than i should
dire steppe
oops i always bring antos cause i can’t beat em1
edgy arrow
you’re not the only one who does that
edgy arrow
yeah
halcyon flame
i wonder if anton is a good choice for em1 because sometimes they'll spawn a bunch of minions
sly remnant
i don't mind EM1 as long as alecto behaves
dire steppe
well meg just doesn’t work
halcyon flame
then again you could be using battie which is an even worse choice because you literally cannot use it
dire steppe
i die to furies on like 50% of my runs
edgy arrow
even if i could use battie against furies i probs wouldn’t
it’d be like using it on lernie
halcyon flame
not really worth it
edgy arrow
i need those charges for harder fights, or fights where they can save me more time
halcyon flame
i just pop battie on the third phase of lernie because at that point it's an insta-kill
edgy arrow
i used to do that but now i don’t unless i’m in 1hp or something
dire steppe
we need em5 where lernie fight is all three em2 lernies at once
halcyon flame
i feel like i'm not using my summon as often as i should
edgy arrow
we need em5 where lernie fight is all three em2 lernies at once
i want this so bad
lernie is my favourite fight in the game
halcyon flame
i only use it for bosses or if i'm in an actually really bad spot
dire steppe
lernie is my favourite fight in the game
wtf?
halcyon flame
there's a guide specifically on how to effectively use battie??? nice
dire steppe
i feel like i can’t even tell if i’m taking damage in lernie fight
sly remnant
if you play with heightened security you kinda just randomly lose 5 hp and then a slam hits you for a 100000000 damage and then whats that i'm in the house now how did that happen
one of ruthless reflex's biggest problems is Heightened Security EM2 lernie fight
sly remnant
oh i think its fun
mossy zinc
asphodel isn't hard but the enemies are just annoying as hell to fight
Dracons can be very difficult.
woven surge
Hello. I'm new to the heat system. If I haven't beaten the last boss with a weapon but I raise it to heat 1 on a run, will I get both the Heat 0 and Heat 1 reward once I beat hades?
halcyon flame
dracons suck
i hate them so much
i'd rather fight actual hydra heads than deal with those things i hate them so much\
halcyon flame
Hello. I'm new to the heat system. If I haven't beaten the last boss with a weap...
you can't claim multiple bounties in one run, you have to get all the bounties from previous heat levels before being able to claim the bounties for your current heat level
so you can't just jump to like 5 heat and then get 5 titan blood from megaera at once
woven surge
Man that sucks. So I HAVE to beat hades on 0 heat to get his reward for all weapons before i should go heat
edgy arrow
i mean, you don’t have to
but you get no additional rewards if you skip heat steps
other than street cred
halcyon flame
you can do high heat right now if you wanna but if you're in it for the bounties it's best to go one heat level at a time
that said a heat setup i'd recommend is em2/td1/mm/bp1
edgy arrow
lol i still have a couple of bounties to do technically
since i jumped heat so much
and also don’t play spear much
woven surge
I mean even hades on 0 heat is quite challenging imo but then again, I havent' even got all of the mirror yet
halcyon flame
if you're bad at going fast then you can cross tight deadline off the list but generally it doesn't have much of an effect for most people
dire steppe
honestly just start with LC4
halcyon flame
36 minutes is surprisingly a lot of time to finish a run, i usually get 21-25 minutes with all weapons
edgy arrow
yeah that’s why he’s suggesting stuff like TD and EM1-2 to start with, since that won’t make hades harder
dire steppe
teaches you to save hp on hades
edgy arrow
you can crank FO and HL and stuff ones you have a better handle on the later game bosses
or crank them now
dire steppe
lc4 and stubborn defiance
edgy arrow
with heat, you can experience pain and suffering however you want
halcyon flame
admittedly, i'm still really bad at dodging hades' attacks
edgy arrow
lc4 and stubborn defiance
lc4 with death defiance you coward
edgy arrow
jks don’t do lc4 with death defiance folks
mossy zinc
LC4 RI4 is the way.
edgy arrow
yeah
don’t do death defiance; do no defiance
i feel like that might actually not too bad with GY
halcyon flame
yeah i might start out lc4 with fists
edgy arrow
at least, if i were better at GY
torn remnant
there's no threat just dodge smh
halcyon flame
i feel like i'm not really learning if i use rail or bow
edgy arrow
i’ll add it to the list of very bad low heat pact setups i’ve been trying
alpine sleet
Am I just bad for not being able to beat hades with fo2 hard labor 4 with sd?
gentle bridge
no, it's really just hard
vital grove
Compared to the best players, yes
But this isn't about comparing yourself to the best
alpine sleet
Yea
vital grove
You'll do it after enough tries.
alpine sleet
Yessir
sly remnant
the only person you are competing with in this game is yourself
vital grove
I mean, I doubt even Tail cleared 50 or 60 heat on his first attempts
And he's about as good as you can be, I think
mossy zinc
I did 52 first try.
halcyon flame
i mean it's pretty clear tailesque definitely did not clear 60 heat on his first try since in his video there was a pre-run death at the start of it
edgy arrow
I did 52 first try. <:squirtnya:472124054644457472>
cough +400% cough
halcyon flame
heightened security is scary
like imagine getting hit by those sawblades in styx
you just die instantly
mossy zinc
So? Didn't see nobody else doing 52 first try with that.
halcyon flame
I did 52 first try. <:squirtnya:472124054644457472>
what was your setup 👉 👈
edgy arrow
wait, forget charged flight
edgy arrow
the real mvp was the bouldy boon
halcyon flame
but they're using skelly
dire steppe
what heats got added
halcyon flame
is it a good idea to do ri1 early on?
dire steppe
em4 and td3?
sly remnant
yea they "fixed" TD3
mossy zinc
Pact of Punishment
Extreme Measures: increased Heat for third rank; added fourth rank (requires a certain Contractor item)
- Tight Deadline: your time no longer resets between regions; clearing regions adds more time
dire steppe
lol tail thinks he’s so cool doing 60 heat i can do 120 heat first try smh
dire steppe
dont forget the heat room rewards
edgy arrow
that was before my time
mossy zinc
Joke's on you, Tailesque has done 153 Heat lol.
edgy arrow
lol is there a recording of that
or like, even a screenshot
i wanna use it to confuse people
mossy zinc
I think so. @daring hedge you have a link?
edgy arrow
i guess the ui would look different
crystal elk
Just did 32 heat the other day, was there easier pact conditions I could’ve done?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/799116514480881714/image0.jpg
edgy arrow
someone: max heat done is 60
me: yeah Tail’s getting old now; in his prime he could break 100 easy
mossy zinc
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3 is the easiest combo I know for 32, generally.
Might find something easier eventually, but that works really well.
edgy arrow
i’m sure that’s the easiest for you
i doubt it’s the easiest for anyone trying to do their first 32
onyx venture
Did the old heat system ever overlap with the Hades fight being released? I honestly don't remember
onyx venture
i doubt it’s the easiest for anyone trying to do their first 32
It worked first try for at least one person I know
mossy zinc
I mean most people I recommended that to for their first 32 ended up clearing very quickly after that.
edgy arrow
i mean, i don’t think it’s the worst
mossy zinc
Some people might struggle with this or that, but it's a good general recommendation.
edgy arrow
but like, some people just starting to mess around with high heat can’t beat sub 20 consistently
sure, that’s fair
onyx venture
It does require knowledge of how to use SD though
gaunt fiber
but like, some people just starting to mess around with high heat can’t beat sub...
Yeah but you're not supposed to beat 32 without a bit of practice
edgy arrow
true enough
mossy zinc
There's also that.
crystal elk
I beat it on my second attempt with 7 death defiances lol
I forgot to swap it for sd
edgy arrow
lol now i’m having flashbacks to some of my first 32 attempts
mossy zinc
It's not necessarily the most consistent because you can get unlucky with a 5 sack on TD3, and if you're new to high heat, you probably don't have the pace to do TD3 5 sack, but the runs overall will be easier than with TD2 and 3 Heat in something else.
edgy arrow
i don’t think i ever broke 1 hour on a play through?
i think my longest was 58 minutes
i am a pro speedrunner, is what i’m trying to say
the LC4 HL5 combo also requires you to play bosses somewhat decently
gaunt fiber
tbh I wish I had an "easy" 32 pact suggestion
crystal elk
I always use td 3
gaunt fiber
My first 32 is on TD3 pace with TD1
sly remnant
i think nyaanyaa's is the most generally applicable with some variation that can be applied to personal playstyle and aspect
sly remnant
nothing will be flawless, but its atleast a good starting point
and the best starting point i've seen
edgy arrow
my easy 32 suggestion is just to play beowulf
gaunt fiber
I don't have a single clear with beo
edgy arrow
it does pretty well at 32
gaunt fiber
and the first will be 40
mossy zinc
Yeah exactly.
Beowulf was always super hard to play even before nerfs.
Shouldn't have been nerfed.
Beowulf needs +400% Charged Flight.
Hopefully they fix that.
edgy arrow
chaos needs +400% charged flight tbh
gaunt fiber
At this point just give it a flat value lol
mossy zinc
Chaos Aspect is actually fun for me now. Wasn't fun before they nerfed it.
edgy arrow
i mean, i like it
i just get bored sometimes halfway through a room clear if i took too much JS or whatever
mossy zinc
Charged Flight is such a weird hammer that is not allowed on 2/4 shields and does nothing meaningful at all on 1/2 shields it's allowed on lol.
edgy arrow
yeah idk why it isn’t a beo specific hammer
since they’re balancing it specifically for beo anyway
vital grove
is it a good idea to do ri1 early on?
Yeah with ap2 and shackle I guess
mossy zinc
Yeah, that'd make sense.
RI1 is a bad idea because Dark Foresight and Fated Persuasion are way too good.
Even on Hestia where you can just not care about boons, Dark Foresight will give you a lot of HP from Centaur Hearts.
sly remnant
p sure they nerfed charged flight for playstyle reasons rather than balance reasons
cuz i agree its an underwhelming hammer now
mossy zinc
They def nerfed it for balance reason. It was completely broken on Beowulf lol.
sly remnant
i agree they nerfed it because it was broken on beowulf
mossy zinc
225 base damage.
gaunt fiber
what?
edgy arrow
i think it was partially a playstyle thing, even for beowulf
gaunt fiber
It had 225 base damage?
mossy zinc
45 + 400% base damage, yes.
edgy arrow
i think they wanted people to use their cast aspect for cast builds sometimes, not just special every time
gaunt fiber
lmao
mossy zinc
That's 225.
sly remnant
i think they wanted people to use their cast aspect for cast builds sometimes, n...
yep
mossy zinc
Yes.
vital grove
It bounces
sly remnant
just twice
edgy arrow
that one’s much less annoying
edgy arrow
yup
edgy arrow
it’s much harder to get online for a worse result and also you don’t have aoe now
sly remnant
rofl
edgy arrow
that’s nothing; today i spaced out and somehow forgot whose duo mirage shot is, and forced dio instead of arty going into the asphodel
so anyway; exclusive access is not the duo i’d recommend on a beo speedrun
edgy arrow
hmm true
edgy arrow
oh yeah i’ve done that before
i wimped out and sold greater haste in the next biome lol
edgy arrow
nice
sly remnant
shackle OP
gaunt fiber
now I can get 5sack
Almost missed the meg because you know
You go like one input upward and meg
That input almost send me in a pillar
mossy zinc
just get exclusive access
That's my attitude towards Pride.
Also Yarn of Ariadne and Refreshing Nectar.
There are also just boons where I don't care about rarity and boons that I can just get from miniboss rewards.
sly remnant
ye. aphrodite just makes rarity a lot worse because its diminishing returns most of the time
god's pride big thing is making you go fast now which is why speedrunners and AP2'ers prefer it
also for chaos reasons since chaos has such a large variance
vital grove
How do you play aspect of chaos best?
I can muddle along to a win on 32 i guess but that's not what I want
I think it's easily my worst aspect of the non-Zags
gaunt fiber
@rain sedge How many aspects do you have at 40?
shy gulch
chaos is weird i cleared it at 32 but i literally have no memory of it
i just went into my records to see what i had left and there was a 32 next to chaos shield and i was like alright cool
sly remnant
what the hell is that beo pact
gaunt fiber
first time be gentle
true fable
me n the boys strolling through elysium with single digit boons
true fable
shoutout to the unholy CF2
shy gulch
yes if u count hermes :^)
true fable
its too early in the morning croven
sly remnant
ugh i havent played beo in like a week and a half
sly remnant
yea lategame beo is pretty braindead
gaunt fiber
pash flare
It looks super good
gaunt fiber
this was an epic heartbreak flourish start
shy gulch
and the ease of mirage shot
sly remnant
pash flare is fine
i'm not saying it can't work
and its probably better with CF2 UC
but uh
shy gulch
understandable
gaunt fiber
1700 special crit pog
shy gulch
pog
rain sedge
<@!203931754501767168> How many aspects do you have at 40?
10? I haven't really worked on it
why monkaS
12 actually if I remember correctly
gaunt fiber
Just to know buddy
rain sedge
what about you?
gaunt fiber
8 I think
nimble trench
do you guys have any advice for learning to do high heat better other than just "play a lot"
true fable
oh boyo
nimble trench
if not that's valid
true fable
we have a race on our hands fellas
nimble trench
but like, idk
nimble trench
i've been trying to play on like, 12 until i get it, then move up, but idk if i should increment one heat at a time or bump up higher and learn to deal
true fable
one at a time isnt a bad idea
shy gulch
i mean i can tell you how i started moving up heat but it could be different for everyone
for heats 1-20, i moved up one by one for a few different weapons until i got all the bounties i needed
then i tried to jump to 32 for the skelly statue
took me a few tries but got it in the end
true fable
lol
nimble trench
one at a time isnt a bad idea
ngl, i expected you to say max heat. with the melee roy pfp i figured you liked punishment lol
shy gulch
LMAO
nimble trench
true
true fable
our boy
shy gulch
b o i
nimble trench
a skilled roy can beat any marth
but overall you guys think one at a time is a better idea?
true fable
its whatever you wanna do
shy gulch
^
i think 1 at a time is fine for a while, especially while ur still levelling up your weapons
shy gulch
once you get a feel for heat and have properly levelled ewapons
nimble trench
🙂
shy gulch
you can consider jumping
nimble trench
hopefully more confidence will help
true fable
id just get familiar with how these pacts impact the game - BP2/MM/FO2/UC/TD if you want to progress in heat level
shy gulch
^this is a good tip actually
nimble trench
yeah, i've been trying to figure that out
shy gulch
those pacts will almost always be on if you're doing higher heat
so getting used to them now will be useful
nimble trench
like, i've learned that certain pacts are a huge difficulty spike, and others are almost free
gaunt fiber
nimble trench
like, timer 1 is almost free, timer 2 is pretty doable, time 3 is insane
gaunt fiber
first time/try then
nimble trench
https://imgur.com/xz2y3j9
pog
sly remnant
nice!
shy gulch
oh nice job astaos
gaunt fiber
4 sack vermined but who cares
shy gulch
that reminds me i still need to do 45 beo LUL
sly remnant
that reminds me i still need to do 45 beo LUL
its free just don't use astaos pact
shy gulch
its not free im bad at beo
ive gotten to superdad twice but died
that was a while ago tho
nimble trench
thanks for all the help guys
shy gulch
np
nimble trench
i appreciate
shy gulch
dont be afraid to ask any more questions u have
shy gulch
LMAO dw ur good
i have been roasted enough by bright zero one so i do not feel the pain
dry flame
never had a problem with he rail and TD
gaunt fiber
WHAT BUILD ARE YOU GOING
lmao I felt scolded
Like "did you see what you just did with beo"
shy gulch
lmfao
gaunt fiber
I think it's gonna be zeus
sly remnant
TD3 is fine then
dry flame
doom isn't great on Lucy tbh
gaunt fiber
yeah ik lmao
dry flame
I thought it would be so op then I tried it and realized u actually need to stop shooting sometimes for the doom to trigger
gaunt fiber
how is eternal chamber?
alpine sleet
Not good
gaunt fiber
no ramp seems huge
alpine sleet
Flash fire and triple are the best
gaunt fiber
i got triple bomb and triple beam pog
alpine sleet
Nice
shy gulch
oh epic
gaunt fiber
Aphro always showing up pog
mossy zinc
@nimble trench if you want to push into high heats eventually, just full-time EM2 FO2 TD3 for practice.
shy gulch
eh you do but i dont think thats really needed at < 20
the other pacts that bright and nyaanyaa mentioned are more important imo
true fable
eternal chamber is fine on builds where your primary damage is not the attack but rather effects on the attack
like super soaker
or lucifMEr
shy gulch
so is it fine w zeus attack
sly remnant
gonna be a no from me dawg
since you'll be wholly dependent on bomb damage otherwise for bosses
true fable
what tyler said
nimble trench
Interesting, I might do that. Thanks
mossy zinc
EM2 FO2 is just standard for speedruns, and TD3 shouldn't be an issue if you can speedrun. And you want to learn basic speedrun strats for high heat anyway.
Don't need to be able to do sub 10 runs or anything like that.
true fable
to be fair though id probably be fine with eternal chamber zeus attack if i had jolted or smth
theres just better hammers if you have those pieces
targeting system, triple bomb, flash fire, triple beam
daring hedge
+500% damage from hard labor I mean vicious torment 😔
alpine sleet
Dying because you broke every bone by landing at the very start
shy gulch
its always really strong tbh
gaunt fiber
hm
yeah I know the combo is strong but
I tried with GY things and it was not optimal imo
true fable
153 heat
poggers
wait was it actually just +500% damage, straight up
how does that... work
daring hedge
Yeah, vicious torment was the name for hard labor and you could just straight up bring it to 500%
true fable
jesus
daring hedge
It's kind of why shield was the only weapon that could do heat that high
alpine sleet
Goddamn
daring hedge
And why runs took ages
true fable
turn every room into the asterius miniboss
gaunt fiber
lmao
Just got a 6100 aphrodite call on Hades
this was much more fun than Eris
which is the last rail I have to clear 40 with
true fable
gotta love purple RD
gaunt fiber
btw
true fable
oh we still running infernal soul in the year of our lord 2021?
gaunt fiber
does Aphro damage scale?
true fable
wym
true fable
stant
gaunt fiber
with rarity I mean
tidal flame
Nope
true fable
yes
gaunt fiber
lmao
gaunt fiber
I know the charm duration scales
true fable
i dont make it a habit to read what you write astaos
tidal flame
Damn bro he's a bot but don't do him like that
gaunt fiber
Now I just feel empty inside
tidal flame
Duh
true fable
probably global damage mods + RD?
gaunt fiber
RD sure but idk how it does work
gaunt fiber
So for RD I get 100% from itself + 100% from rush sprint?
tidal flame
Bouldy bonus?
stiff aurora
Yeah I don't see where you got 200% from rd from
gaunt fiber
Bouldy bonus?
I thought about that lmao
tidal flame
He got 100%
gaunt fiber
Bouldy's strength
tidal flame
Cast lodge doesn't affect call damage correct?
gaunt fiber
Correct
mossy zinc
Boiling Blood or Shadow Presence are the only things I see.
gaunt fiber
Yup it was a backstab, definitely
true fable
aphro call can backstab? neat
mossy zinc
I think all the calls can, but I never paid enough attention tbh. Well, obviously Hangover and Lightning Bolts won't backstab.
And I guess Demeter's Aid wouldn't backstab.
gaunt fiber
BB is attack and special tho
mossy zinc
He phased Hades.
tidal flame
I... literally typed that
mossy zinc
The important takeaway here is that Aphrodite's Aid is literally the best Call.
mossy zinc
true fable
wouldve been 7K total?
mossy zinc
Yeah.
true fable
nice
tidal flame
The important takeaway here is that Aphrodite's Aid is literally the best Call.
Artemis can do the same or even more damage 10% of the time it works every time
mossy zinc
Epic Artemis' Aid would have done 5,712 on average.
gaunt fiber
The important takeaway here is that Aphrodite's Aid is literally the best Call.
True
Was not expecting this tho
Maybe Zag shouted louder than usual
tidal flame
Zag is anime protagonist
true fable
Epic Artemis' Aid would have done 5,712 on average.
is this factoring in backstab?
mossy zinc
Yes. Same multiplier.
true fable
interesting
i wouldve thought backstab would skew it but i guess not
my opinion of arty call sinks ever lower
mossy zinc
Well, Epic Artemis' Aid is effectively 2,040 base damage.
If you have no other crit modifiers.
Averaged.
tidal flame
I typed that as a joke
mossy zinc
Poms add a lot of damage, though.
tidal flame
Read the cross out
gaunt fiber
That's totally why I did not pom it 
tidal flame
Excuse me miss
gaunt fiber
I... literally typed that
I feel you little Fox
tidal flame
Bots don't feel
tidal flame
Someone reset Astaos please
gaunt fiber
💔
true fable
give him another run and he'll reset himself
tidal flame
!reset
gaunt fiber
You can't reset me like that
true fable
is it ?reset
tidal flame
~reset
true fable
/reset
gaunt fiber
wowow
stiff aurora
Maybe $reset
gaunt fiber
STAHP
tidal flame
-reset
true fable
ok gold name acquired
tidal flame
Where is your Hades role
true fable
does it mean anything if i have the gold role
tidal flame
No but it's a thorn in my eyes
true fable
how's that
tidal flame
Much better ❤️
vital grove
Gold names are trending.
gaunt fiber
You're trying to make me crash with all these changes
dry flame
gaunt fiber
Lemme ask Schad
rain sedge
imma try to finish more tonight, but so far all my 3 runs have been killed by furies
true fable
im gold now astaos
rain sedge
GY was my first spear 40
rain sedge
was when I was playing on switch
it's literally just roll until you get charged skewer
and press special for 20 mins
which was what I did
rain sedge
or play it once for the record and never touch it again
tidal flame
Just reset for Charged Skewer tbh
sly remnant
that won't make me play well
daring hedge
is resetting for flurry jab not zag spear
gaunt fiber
Hmm
sly remnant
is resetting for flurry jab not zag spear
i won't reset at first because i'm not good enough at the weapon
but it will eventually be that
daring hedge
zag spear is boneless spear
gaunt fiber
I'm not even sure flurry jab restrains your possibilities
sly remnant
i wanna do sword and spear first cuz they are easily my worst 2 weapons
so if i don't do them first i won't do them at all
weak gyro
How does the Demeter Fists charge cutter interact with Rush Kick? Could that stack to 10 hits or...
sly remnant
How does the Demeter Fists charge cutter interact with Rush Kick? Could that sta...
correct
game lags like hell when you do it
daring hedge
it's also just laggy in general, wouldn't recommend rush kick dem fists
gaunt fiber
i wanna do sword and spear first cuz they are easily my worst 2 weapons
You wanna get good at it or just score a random heat number?
sly remnant
You wanna get good at it or just score a random heat number?
i'm doing sub 10 32 heat all aspects
weak gyro
I mean, if every hit does full damage that sounds like an excellent candidate for Hunter Flourish
sly remnant
or trying to at least
daring hedge
if you mean deadly flourish then it's fine but standard uppers are going to be faster and easier to pull off against faster targets
and you can also get explosive upper if you don't get rush kick
weak gyro
I see
daring hedge
explosive upper is pretty much dem fists' best hammer alongside breaching cross
rain sedge
is resetting for flurry jab not zag spear
what I did for zag spear
I'm planning to do this for achilles too, but based on my last experience, cast build actually works fine at 40
true fable
zag spear is a vehicle for one hammer
rain sedge
so im gonna put zeus keepsake and see which hammer I get
and get my boons based on that
true fable
yeah theres no reason to do anything else
although funny enough
my 40 zag spear was with serrated point zeus attack 🥴
gaunt fiber
Also
daring hedge
lol that also works
gaunt fiber
The curse of longing gilgamesh is so fun
true fable
yeah its nice
gaunt fiber
Just had to rebind special
tidal flame
Why?
sly remnant
he means unbind
gaunt fiber
No no
sly remnant
(im joking)
gaunt fiber
The A > Y spam was uncomfortable
thorn bridge
What's generally better, Chthonic Vitality or Dark Regeneration?
gaunt fiber
Chtonic
thorn bridge
Also, just bind stuff to shoulder buttons :p
sly remnant
i like dark regen too
thorn bridge
Call L2 Dash R2
Cast L1 Special R1
sly remnant
except when running high confidence
gaunt fiber
Are we considering bounties
daring hedge
you don't even need non-bounty darkness when troves exist
gaunt fiber
Hum
sly remnant
it works in styx wells and charon shops too
thorn bridge
Oh, interesting
daring hedge
even with bigger regions, ~36 hp isn't really that much compared to a darkness trove heal
or post-boss darkness heal
alpine sleet
I like doing dark regen
daring hedge
or all the charon and well darkness
alpine sleet
To heal after boss fight
gaunt fiber
Yeah I totally forgot about troves
alpine sleet
Troves are nice too
thorn bridge
I think I'm definitely leaning toward Dark now
alpine sleet
I feel like cthonic is better with TD3 because you don't have time to collect troves and stuff like that
gaunt fiber
nourished soul
sly remnant
who plays with TD3 and healing
alpine sleet
Idk
gaunt fiber
who plays with TD3 and healing
PeachHead
sly remnant
i mean speedrun is different
sly remnant
yea i run High Confidence and Cthonic as well
daring hedge
it's def fair to value cthonic more in a speedrun any heat context
sly remnant
but only on shield and arthur for 32
daring hedge
dark foresight cuts your darkness and troves aren't going to be a thing
shy gulch
I only use cthonic for speedrunning
normally I just value the post boss darkness healing a lot
sly remnant
astaos just never has enough life to use dark regen
alpine sleet
Tru
sly remnant
cthonic is basically centaur heart for astaos
daring hedge
the only context where high confidence is really scary is where you probably should take thick skin anyway
alpine sleet
?
daring hedge
low heat, no hard labor
alpine sleet
Ah
daring hedge
high heat, no healing, hard labor
thorn bridge
Forced overtime seems too brutal
true fable
and if im running LC4 then dark regen/cvital doesnt matter anymore
thorn bridge
also, astaos? Still learning nouns >.<
daring hedge
the former is what i meant for when you can run HC btw i worded that weirdly
sly remnant
Forced overtime seems too brutal
your instincts are correct
but we don't have a choice
sly remnant
ye same
daring hedge
i bet HC 32 could work yeah
true fable
being able to one shot witches is just very satisfying
sly remnant
you can't run LC4 tho
sly remnant
but muh chaos
true fable
find it chamber 12 
daring hedge
just get touch of styx dark and extra touch from well 
sly remnant
nah dark is enough
daring hedge
might do HC 32 with no DC2 for 32 just so i don't have to think about health breakpoints even more
daring hedge
nah dark is enough
assumed it was a skull earring pre patch case where it needed to be specifically above 80%
good to know i guess
alpine sleet
How to beat heat 32 hades
true fable
TIL ace117 is a retrash alt