that combo is a lot of fun
#h1-high-heat-strategies
gaunt fiber
vital grove
Sword, fun, mkay
gaunt fiber
Yeah
I mean I understand Retrash now
Nemesis narrows your build so much
While Zag Sword has a lot of fun options
solemn pulsar
Isn’t this build only ~15% better than the same on nemesis though?
Probably less when you factor in crit chance
They’re basically the same
sly remnant
crit is a multiplicative multiplier
gaunt fiber
I did not special at all
solemn pulsar
Right I’m saying that since the attack speed is 15% higher here it’s 15% better than the same build on nemesis
Not factoring in nemesis crit chance
sly remnant
but nem has crit built in
gaunt fiber
If you special
sly remnant
well yea
true fable
idk
true fable
i buy retrash's explanation of liking more options on zag sword
even if it is a bit kooky
gaunt fiber
yeah
sly remnant
oh i agree nem opens up your options
true fable
like nem is probably better
sly remnant
attack speed is much better at adapting to situations
nemesis is good but very narrow
gaunt fiber
I wish I had a call on this run tho
It would have been smoldering air tier
(time out phase 3 lol)
trim sigil
Nemesis mixes the special into a downtime of double dashstrike
So it's really little to no dps loss
Other thing is when it comes to other strats so special becomes too slow for that, indeed
vital grove
Lul, 36 Arthur. Weird run but got it
rain sedge
@true fable do you find the switch joystick to be better than a PC joystick?
I'm using PS4 joystick and it feels clunky a f
mossy zinc
Xbox pads >
rain sedge
cool
I cant get the right switch joystick to work on pc
it's super weird
cus the left one works fine
rain sedge
what 😦
gaunt fiber
It is what it is
solemn pulsar
Hades has worn down my left stick on my controller considerably
I want to switch it with the right one lol
rain sedge
i thought we moved on from the switch arc schad
well I'm still trying setups that works
havent been playing that much
I was doing poseidon 40 today and didnt even get out of tartarus
gaunt fiber
I want to switch it with the right one lol
xbox?
rain sedge
relevant name indeed
true fable
poseidon 40 is hard
weve talked about this lol
i think i could do it again a bit better this time though
im much better at poseidon than i used to be
mossy zinc
This is what I did for 40. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/780535886874017792/Hades_1172.png?width=755&height=425
Just errr . . . get 3 Duo Boons and a legendary? 
spring kettle
Any reason why you went with Zeus cast?
mossy zinc
And Double Edge.
I started with Eternal Rose.
Electric Shot is good.
Also unlocks Smoldering Air.
solemn pulsar
i dont even see the screws
this was my poseidon 40 heat
for me it's "just get double edge and exit wounds
and... parting shot? lol
true fable
electric shot is just sick
i think i also did a really stupid pact first time i did it
gaunt fiber
i dont even see the screws
Yeah on the xbox one you have to unclip the handles to see them
weak gyro
So probably not "high" heat, but what is everyone's favorite keepsake to start runs with once at like 6+ heat and/or when every boss gets their new moves/strategies?
I used to like starting with god's keepsakes to try and make certain builds, but that hasn't worked out great generally. I was surprised how easy it was to build up dodge and movement speed with Hermes though.
gaunt fiber
Distant memory with Zag sword
weak gyro
Really? How does that work?
solemn pulsar
It works with piercing wave
gaunt fiber
Or at least a good special/attack on your aspect to begin with
gaunt fiber
It works with piercing wave
true
mossy zinc
I think most people in this channel will just do meme runs or speedruns at 6 Heat.
solemn pulsar
Piercing wave flurry slash zag sword is discount flurry shot zag bow
solemn pulsar
“Orpheus i need more power im trying to swing my sword so hard my dad dies”
mossy zinc
SD + Skull Earring is way better.
weak gyro
Always, does anyone know the probability on getting a boon vs a hammer to start a run? Seems like 20% for a hammer to me
mossy zinc
@weak gyro if you don't want to start with any particular god, take Coin Purse.
dire steppe
Or shackle
gaunt fiber
Or Eternal Rose
rain sedge
super soaker
solemn pulsar
Been practicing Achilles any heat and zooming around is fun
It feels so much better after the patch
If no moving is no fun just do no dashing and unbind your dash
So only walking + zooming
mossy zinc
LC4 Feather Duster.
gaunt fiber
Yeah I can do that too
solemn pulsar
So a LC4 no keepsake run basically
gaunt fiber
with achilles
weak gyro
How much priority do you guys put on Poms? Do you take them over money?
gaunt fiber
First pom very good
solemn pulsar
If I’m looking to buy boons I’ll take money
If I know I need to Pom something (any important boons to level 2, some to 3) then I’ll take Pom
dire steppe
hello there little godling @ nya
weak gyro
Also, what are the conditions to spawn a fountain in a zone? Or is it just random?
solemn pulsar
The more boons you have the worse poms are because you might not roll the boon you want
Random
proud jay
Also, what are the conditions to spawn a fountain in a zone? Or is it just rando...
there's a biome depth requirement, usually 3rd or 4th room can be a fountain
only a min depth requirement
solemn pulsar
Oh forgot about that good call
I think lili did an analysis of a bunch of runs and saw empirically a 30% fountain rate? I don’t remember the data though, and obviously it was limited
proud jay
yeah something like that
it was calculated considering you always take a mid-shop instead of a normal chamber and stuff like that
solemn pulsar
Yeah and that’s a valid assumption since you mainly care about fountains for the time save not the healing
So sacrificing one free room for another doesn’t help much beyond knowledge of the spawn rates
I guess maybe if you miss the shop
proud jay
yeah well with TD2 you might skip mid-shops
very minimal effect on chance of seeing a fountain but yeah
proud jay
depends on heat level
proud jay
in a speedrun i wouldnt
solemn pulsar
I guess like in your 40 heat streak did you find yourself skipping mid shops a lot?
proud jay
yeah
solemn pulsar
I know you ran td2 for most of not all aspects
proud jay
on the 48 streak i believe i ran only TD2
solemn pulsar
Wow even for Eris and stuff
proud jay
because it's usually either JS3 or TD3
proud jay
JS3 doesn't usually kill you but TD3 definitely can
solemn pulsar
Personally I die to rooms more often than timer at high heat and always run td3 but that’s probably just because I play too aggressively
proud jay
speaking of that i'd like if JS increased max number of enemies per wave
solemn pulsar
Which I guess happens in part due to the timer
weak gyro
Everyone agrees that Achille's Spear is top tier, right? This weapon kicks ass
solemn pulsar
speaking of that i'd like if JS increased max number of enemies per wave
To make the encounters harder instead of longer?
proud jay
yeah
proud jay
Everyone agrees that Achille's Spear is top tier, right? This weapon kicks ass
very strong up to 40-45 heat, and even past that there's flurry jab builds
solemn pulsar
How many extra enemies was the roiling?
gaunt fiber
yeah
mossy zinc
Good job.
gaunt fiber
Thanks!
gaunt fiber
As always
mossy zinc
Are you saying I always underestimate you? How dare you question me. 
gaunt fiber
You do 
mossy zinc
You died because you didn't take the Eternal Rose.
gaunt fiber
I can't take the Eternal Rose and the Feather Duster
mossy zinc
Exactly.
spring kettle
Isn't achilles a cast weapon?
vocal adder
Hey all! Attempted 32 heat today. Is EM4 recommended? I had so much trouble with him with this much heat.
mossy zinc
It's whatever you make of it.
gaunt fiber
It is what I choose to be
mossy zinc
No, don't take EM4.
vocal adder
Okay. I figured so. I made it to 3rd phase and he destroyed me lol
mossy zinc
EM3 or EM2 are fine.
solemn pulsar
When I first cleared 32 heat it took me 2 tries. The first try was EM4. The second try was not
tidal flame
Yeah EM4 is brutal
spring kettle
That's what happened to me the first time I turned on EM4
solemn pulsar
Do with that what you will
spring kettle
Admittedly the heroes already took like a DD or two by then
vocal adder
I had full DD's and he still got me rofl
gaunt fiber
Free boon
vocal adder
I'll try without
mossy zinc
I have Chaos dash range reduction
That's a free Serrated Point minus the damage. 
vocal adder
I've been using Eris so I'm just wondering what heats I can use to replace EM4 with
rain sedge
I've been using Eris so I'm just wondering what heats I can use to replace EM4 w...
pinned post for heat guide
gaunt fiber
I need to find it!
vocal adder
Nice ill check it out
mossy zinc
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC TD3 is what I do for easy 32.
mossy zinc
DC2 wastes a lot of time on Eris.
proud jay
finally got around to submitting 40 heat winstreak to the spreadsheet. should it appear instantly or does someone need to approve it first?
gaunt fiber
finally got around to submitting 40 heat winstreak to the spreadsheet. should it...
I will verify each run
shy plinth
There it is, I fixed the formula
proud jay
thanks hat
shy plinth
Np, nice streak 🙂
proud jay
it's actually up to 48 but i kinda don't feel like uploading all of that
shy plinth
This is a lot of footage
Do you record locally and upload it all instead of exporting from twitch?
proud jay
yeah and i guess the first rotation is what really matters
i export from twitch what i can. some runs had a disconnect but i recorded locally
proud jay
fortunately exporting highlights from twitch is real simple
weak gyro
Is there any way to manipulate the Temple chambers? Is it possible to ever get the food on the first door?
shy plinth
It is not
Has to be at least 7 chambers in
The skull doors are usually faster though can be tougher, I usually take a regular door first and a skull door second
weak gyro
So I assume there is also no way to guarantee you get it (and the fountain) last?
weak gyro
I just hate getting it early, prefer to get it later. I tend to do all hallways.
Do the usual rules about boon doors/darkness door categories apply to the Temple? Or do I not understand how Fated Authority works?
shy plinth
I believe the styx doors are always gold doors
Though fated persuasion is usually the way to go
weak gyro
Dark Foresight or Olympian Favor? Which is better overall?
weak gyro
I had heard that Fated Authority was better than Persuasion early on, but I can see how Persuasion might be better.
gaunt fiber
Dark Foresight is just too good
weak gyro
It's so expensive though lol
If I exceed heat requirements for new rewards, will I just get the rewards for the lowest current requirement and then keep going up from there? Just cleared on higher than required heat, but the rewards still show as locked, so I'm assuming that is what happened
shy plinth
If I exceed heat requirements for new rewards, will I just get the rewards for t...
The game acts as though you are playing at the lowest heat you haven't cleared
gaunt fiber
this is an aquatic run
weak gyro
Makes sense. Can Centaur Heart rooms be re-rolled into boons?
solemn pulsar
You said you didn’t want an easy one!
gaunt fiber
LC4 dusa is too much with it lmao
solemn pulsar
I think those weren’t supposed to be resort tkgetbrr lol
gaunt fiber
But LC4 feather is just amusing
solemn pulsar
They were separate suggestions
true fable
hmm
gaunt fiber
what are you doing astaos
Achilles but no dash and only move with special combined with feather duster
true fable
wtf
weak gyro
Demeter Cast OP
true fable
unbind movement keys now
gaunt fiber
I can't
I want this run to live
to get a lv 30 cast
Flurry jab tempest strike wrecks shields
wall slam is pog
north dove
north dove
never got offered one 
north dove
dio call + support fire pretty much
gaunt fiber
yeah
north dove
I got to hades on 4 runs before this one but apparently 51 heat always makes bottom right corner unsafe for cerberus
true fable
😦
north dove
next aspect is probably going to be 51 zag rail
gaunt fiber
Done!
Phase 2 dad was a nightmare, almost died
Asphodel was the hardest, Elysium was a breeze since nothing could touch me. Rupture killed heroes
true fable
i looked at this screen, thought "oh cool astaos cleared 44 GY" then remembered The Truth TM
gaunt fiber
Don't do this to me
the challenge took me more than 1 hour
"just a quick run before I sleep"
gaunt fiber
Nah it was Achilles no dash + LC4 Dusa Duster
shy gulch
oh damn
lmao
wait does dusa duster still heal u with LC4? or does it just become a useless keepsake
solemn pulsar
Useless
shy gulch
F
solemn pulsar
Wonder why there’s no “no keepsake” heat
gaunt fiber
Oh
I was going to say it would be RNG
Then I remembered about AP
So yeah why not
gaunt fiber
True
vital grove
The skull doors are usually faster though can be tougher, I usually take a regul...
Interesting approach. I usually keep a use of companion for the first skull door and do it first thing because it's faster
tame mist
any advice for EM4
vital grove
Avoid dog rage by getting to a corner of the map
shy plinth
Interesting approach. I usually keep a use of companion for the first skull door...
I think more experienced players usually go double skull
But if we're talking 6+ heat I'd not start with a skull
vital grove
I've been running JS3 lately tbh and that's a pain in those big final rooms
tame mist
Avoid dog rage by getting to a corner of the map
it just feels like such a fast fight
vital grove
Well Hades has some new moves so you have to react differently and also anticipate the Spear throw, then the minibosses he summons have to be dealt with quickly
It takes practice
I avoid em4 in higher heat
tame mist
im not doing it with any other conditions tho i just wanna try EM4 only just for the sake of it
gaunt fiber
I would say
Do not try to escape too hard
Some moves are just hard to dodge at long range
Be careful with his double spin too, make good use of your dashes
Be sure to deal with the adds he summons
Do not rush, this a long fight
vital grove
And he starts healing I hope you can outdps the heal
north dove
sly remnant
retrash god
north dove
51 talos and zag rail vids are up in #self-promotion
true fable
im gonna try doing just pure maxy from a-z
24 aspects
i want to get good at that fight
shy gulch
strimming?
tacit dragon
Guan Yu good with high heat strats ?
solemn pulsar
Just because you’ve become good at it doesn’t make it good for high heat lol
gaunt fiber
Yeah sure
shy gulch
im with cgull here lmao
gaunt fiber
Guys come on lmao
shy gulch
to me it has all the issues Arthur has but with half health
except that GY can sometimes salvage a run with a good hammer
shy gulch
which i do not think is good enough
gaunt fiber
Arthur is a slow weapon yeah
tacit dragon
How long has this GY thing been out
gaunt fiber
GY is not
shy gulch
im glad someone’s found success with it but I cannot
solemn pulsar
Like how long has the weapon existed?
tacit dragon
No one thought to change this aspect yet ?
tacit dragon
Like how long has the weapon existed?
Yeah
gaunt fiber
What would you change?
solemn pulsar
Reduce health reduction even more
gaunt fiber
You can't touch the HP
shy gulch
I think it’s a fine weapon just that part is a bit too extreme
especially at low levels lol
tacit dragon
no % cuts
solemn pulsar
Either make it 25% at level one or turn the spin2win into a percent heal instead of 1 hp
tacit dragon
just base hp
shy gulch
it’s near unplayable at lv 1
solemn pulsar
Make it 1%
gaunt fiber
Hm
solemn pulsar
Like do -50% then up the healing each level
gaunt fiber
I would not consider LV1 at all
gaunt fiber
Sure but in a balance perspective it does not matter
shy gulch
why not
that’s a part of the game
and I think it being utterly unplayable at lv 1 is unbalanced
solemn pulsar
Either reduce health reduction at level 5 to 25% or up healing to percentage based
That’s my opinion on it
shy gulch
im p much in agreement I think
gaunt fiber
and I think it being utterly unplayable at lv 1 is unbalanced
That's bad but honestly it's not that important
Like
shy gulch
I think it’s still something that should be considered
not everyone is gonna max every aspect like we do
gaunt fiber
Are you sad about Demeter and Chiron being weak lv1
shy gulch
the scaling from lv1 to lv5 should absolutely be considered
no because those aren’t the same
solemn pulsar
They’re not weak, they’re just similar to base zag bow
shy gulch
they’re not unplayable, it’s just that their unique aspect is a bit weaker at lv1
true fable
anyone who plays that weapon knows what theyre getting into
true fable
try -99%
shy gulch
pain
gaunt fiber
That's almost unplayable indeed
But I can tell you
GY problem at high heat is not the health reduction
true fable
hmm
as someone who did high heat and then did high heat GY
i found that to be by far the most persistent GY problem
its also a bit on the slower side
gaunt fiber
You dash in traps mate
true fable
but not like terribly slow
tacit dragon
found what to be the most persistent problem
gaunt fiber
Lmao
shy gulch
LMAO
shy gulch
bright moment
true fable
it simply shows how bad the health reduc is
gaunt fiber
You can play safe with GY
true fable
it is not the core issue
look
i can dash into traps with other weapons and be fine
:^)
case closed
shy gulch
gg
gaunt fiber
The main problem to me is that it's hammer reliant and it will never deal with TD3 JS DC2
shy gulch
I feel like a lot of weaps are like that tho
solemn pulsar
The health reduction basically makes it HL5 from the get go
gaunt fiber
Yeah but you can always tank two hits at least
solemn pulsar
Not always
gaunt fiber
Then SD procs which is fine
Taking 40 dmg hits while at 10 is huge value
I mean ofc 50% is bad, especially for bosses
shy gulch
astaos how often do you spin without quick / massive spin
gaunt fiber
every second
gaunt fiber
Hm
shy gulch
with the hammers it’s pretty epic
gaunt fiber
Between waves spawn and then it depends on the enemy
gaunt fiber
Tartarus : Thugs free, bait lout, bait skulls. Brimstone suicide, BP wringers too
Asphodel : Bloodless are free, bombers are not except if alone where chain spin can stunlock em
Elysium : Enemies besides chariots/bow are easy to bait for spinning
Styx : depends on the room really
Hades : hard without quick spin (especially EM4) but I can find some openings, but rare
Like I would spin to get above the hp threshold that would kill me
gaunt fiber
You kinda can on Asterius with spin dash but it's not worth it
And when Theseus falls from his chariot
The thing is that spinning too much will slow you down
without hammer or in general without massive spin
still an amazing tool
gaunt fiber
astaos how often do you spin without quick / massive spin
GY life without hammers is so sad that I misread your "without", it became "with"
honest kernel
So, I know it might not be the most apt comparaison, but when I played my 45 heat Arthur run with Cursed Slash, I had that same mentality
Get the heals when it's conveniant, otherwise it slows you down
Guan-Yu, and I think Spear in general, has a tendency to play on the mid-range side of things, which, in this game, is actually kinda awkward
gaunt fiber
That's a nice comparison
Yeah GY has some options but usually they don't go well together imo
The weapon does not synergize with itself lol
honest kernel
It's not like Rail or Bow where you can literally start attacking from one edge of a screen to the other. Fists and Sword need to be in threat range to deal their damage, but at 'least they can dish out serious damage to compensate
Shield has the block button to keep itself safe, trading Damage for Safety
Spear tries to do the same thing, but with range instead
The problem ? Spear is about the clunkiest weapon in the game
gaunt fiber
Yup
honest kernel
Special is usually not worth going for unless you have a strong gimmick attached to it
Spin's a good, but slow move
gaunt fiber
When you can have range and damage, why would you play spear
honest kernel
This is why Arthur, the sword aspect with actual range on it's attack, feels awkward to play. That, and the fact that it's slow as heck lol
gaunt fiber
Idk if spin is good for the first two spears
Like you'll sacrifice it for flurry jab lol
honest kernel
That's moreso opportunity cost more than anything
Because Flurry Jab is an insane DPS increase in a weapon that'll kill puppies to get damage
gaunt fiber
That's true but
When it's not hades or GY you're not really rewarded for hitting a max spin
honest kernel
I can time max-charges on wave spawns well, on default spin
But otherwise, mid-charges are what I go for, if I'm not dash-striking
gaunt fiber
yeah you can do that, and that would be the only time to do it
honest kernel
Which is weird to see when Bow, and Shield-Bow makes their powershot worthwhile
honest kernel
AoE when the game forces you to only hit like 3-4 enemies at once
Totally worthwhile
honest kernel
If it's more than that, Mid-Charge or a bunch of dash-strikes does the job
honest kernel
Not without a spin hammer, yeah
honest kernel
2 attempts got to Styx
gaunt fiber
Is Zeus better than Rama for RI4 since it can block? So you're bound to be the king?
gaunt fiber
Block is not damage
honest kernel
^ There you have it
honest kernel
Zeus Aspect mitigates that, to some extent
But getting enough damage to compare to Rama ?
That's going to be the highroll I need to shoot for
honest kernel
Like, I'm willing to do EM4 with Charged Shot on one dash
That's how much I need it
gaunt fiber
I don't know what would be harder between Rama or Zeus for that
honest kernel
As Tailesque said at some point, he'd need to highroll Greatest Reflex
With that, he could do it
gaunt fiber
Yeah
honest kernel
But that's a spicy highroll and a half on AP2
gaunt fiber
Poor fox
mossy zinc
to me it has all the issues Arthur has but with half health
??? It's not remotely like Excalibur.
gaunt fiber
Oh, did not see this message
honest kernel
Base Arthur and Base Guan-Yu do not go for the same gameplan at all lol
gaunt fiber
wait I did lmao
honest kernel
Arthur wants you to facetank as a last resort
Guan-Yu wants you to heal as a last resort
gaunt fiber
Facetank GY is a bit harder
mossy zinc
Guan Yu is good. People being bad at Guan Yu doesn't mean the aspect is bad. It's not easy, but it's good.
Obviously not top tier, either.
gaunt fiber
The thing people don't bother to get good with GY and call it bad
When I'm watching some GY streams I'm just like "dude look at you"
But I understand that people could think that investing a lot of time in this aspect is just not worth it when you can first try high heat with others
honest kernel
Guan-Yu is the weapon that needs the most precision to work with, positionning-wise
And it's not the fastest either
It will reward a player that can avoid big chunks of damage at once, and sustain you through Chip damage from rooms with relative ease
mossy zinc
Guan-Yu is the weapon that needs the most precision to work with, positionning-w...
Skill ceiling for that is probably higher for Zeus.
But you can not be on point with Zeus and do good.
honest kernel
Are we talking potential, or practical ?
mossy zinc
Potential, yes.
Optimal Zeus probably requires more than optimal Guan Yu.
At least that's what I think.
But I play Zeus probably as much as you play Guan Yu lol.
honest kernel
The thing about Zeus aspect
Is that it actually plays akin to a 4th aspect
Or at 'least, it can
gaunt fiber
Why positionning when you can bullrush
honest kernel
^
That too
If you time your bullrushes well enough, you are practically invicible
Guan-Yu requires Good positionning or it dies
mossy zinc
Yeah I agree with all of that.
honest kernel
The player using Guan-Yu needs to know when healing vs using the special or dash-strike or even the combo is optimal
It's a lot of micro-decisions that matter in the long run, with a timer looming in your head
With Zeus shield ? You could big brain blitz disc placements here and there, but otherwise you bullrush a ton
Or dash-attack
gaunt fiber
Exactly. We are big brains.
honest kernel
And the I-frames on Bullrush are forgiving
And that's where the difference shows
Nyaa would be right 100% that Zeus aspect's floor skill is pretty forgiving
But I don't think the most optimal stuff is nearly as potent, or as needed, as it is on Guan-Yu
gaunt fiber
I think you're underestimating your skills at special control btw
It seems really hard
honest kernel
Like, 90 % of the time, I do special -> dash-attack or bullrush -> recall
Do that on a timing, and you still get great damage
The idea that you cross enemies up with the shield is not one you'd see often
When people play with the weapon, they think of it as a pure projectile, or as a funky trap
Most of the time, from what I do, I just play it like a dual-wielding Sword or Fists
The rest is like Oh an enemy is about to spawn there, let me line myself up, or oh I haven't recalled in a while, let's do that and maybe line myself up with enemies
That is the most practical optimisation
But it's barely better than just going ham with the routine like I mentionned
It saves you time if it saves a dash or two from a room clear
If I want to save time in a way that's useful, I think I reached that end
mossy zinc
Hmm alright. So it's actually rather simple to optimize, but people lack knowledge for what to do?
honest kernel
That would be my guess
And from watching others play the weapon, from speedrunners to casual players
honest kernel
I figured that routine pretty fast
What took me the most time was actually doing the lining up stuff
And, more recently, wall bounces, which is useful for like Styx
honest kernel
Yeah, with Guan-Yu literally getting that patched in
gaunt fiber
Idk why but when I play some aspects I'm often like "hey this is like GY"
honest kernel
But for real, I think it could also be the fact that you have to use the special often, which is not what you see on other aspects often
Having to suddenly use another button often can be a pain
See : Rail
gaunt fiber
Indeed lol
honest kernel
And why the Zagreus aspect is still good
The downtime isn't that big, unless we are talking with speedruns
But it frees you from the worry about ammo so you can focus on the actual game
Enemies, Room Layout ...
Zeus aspect's special is another heavy burden, even for just the subroutine I mentionned
gaunt fiber
I think I don't worry about that enough. At least knowingly
honest kernel
So there's this weird sudden steep in the difficulty where you actually use the special and attack together
gaunt fiber
That's interesting tho, to use both
honest kernel
Normally, you don't, because Autopiloting is fantastic for that
honest kernel
Try switching your control setup for a minute
And see how much you actually have to think about what to press
gaunt fiber
I was wondering to switch to kbm
honest kernel
Like, you'll know what to do, but the action required to get there isn't automatic
gaunt fiber
There is a movement I can't execute with a controller
honest kernel
And that would be ?
gaunt fiber
The backward dash strike
gaunt fiber
It's just safer than the usual combo
gaunt fiber
Yes
honest kernel
Guan-Yu could benefit from that
gaunt fiber
Hm that might be better even for GY tbh
honest kernel
But yeah, otherwise, Dash-Strike in into out is safe
... usually
Still gotta time it for EM4 lol
Because that Hades spear throw
Is a jerk
It does as much damage as it should do for Varatha
gaunt fiber
Totally agree
honest kernel
Probably the reason why Hades made the switch
mossy zinc
lmao
gaunt fiber
Best aspect is Hades Gigaros for sure
honest kernel
Side note on the whole Aspect of Zeus skill floor/ceiling, I think most people don't realize how fast you can recall the special
Like, you'll find that you can still use your attack while it's out, but you won't realize that you can just spam the special on the throw and recall
It has about as much startup and endlag as a rail special
And the cooldown's even shorter too
I've seen so many people wonder if you can even recall the special before they try it out themselves
Ain't no way they figure out the routine by that point, even if it is simple
honest kernel
Go ahead
gaunt fiber
Zeus grind for 2021? 
honest kernel
I'll probably grind EM4 first
And in the next few days, I might be busy with IRL stuff
I'll still look for it, but it likely won't be as intensive as it was in the last few months
gaunt fiber
I see
Making room for me to steal the throne
Thanks
I think I might grind heat but I have a lot to do first
gaunt fiber
What
honest kernel
I was about to question you for a hot second, but then I remembered that it's also good at playing the long range
In fact, that's all it has over the others
warm osprey
Like the damage on it compared to the spear throwing aspect is worse
But it feels so clean and smooth
gaunt fiber
You should try GY
The sweet dash strike weaving between the special throws
Shred enemies to pieces with a powerful max spin
warm osprey
I havent tried it yet
gaunt fiber
dash on a trap and die instantly
warm osprey
I wanna get all the bounties done then try for 56 heat hestia
But I might be playing PoE again soon so idk
honest kernel
Is there a new season coming for that ?
honest kernel
You could get a PhD on the skill tree alone
gaunt fiber
Lmao yeah
honest kernel
Doesn't even include maps, crafting, the labyrinths, the season gimmicks ...
So much to learn
gaunt fiber
Exactly
honest kernel
Like, looking back at my time invested in Steam, it's apparently like 180 hours
warm osprey
Ya new league soon
honest kernel
I still didn't even go far in the endgame
And have no desire to do so
And barely know the basics of what I mentionned above
warm osprey
I have like 7.5k hours now
honest kernel
...
That might be more time than what I have in all my games combined
What the frick
honest kernel
Give or take 3K hours for my steam games
And probably like 2K on Minecraft of all things lmao
honest kernel
^
If AFK was counted, I'd probably have a lot more on Minecraft
Some farming methods are just that good lol
But most of my time was on servers
warm osprey
But honestly 7k isnt that crazy with some of the poe guys
Some of em have 20k
Easily
honest kernel
PoE might be one of the biggest, if not THE biggest rabbit hole
warm osprey
It is
gaunt fiber
More than Wow?
honest kernel
^ that too
I know how much time my family members spent on it
Or about how much
A full-on hardcore player ? Oh boi
gaunt fiber
Yeah lol
warm osprey
Ya HC in poe is brutal at first
Especially now
Ive always played hc tho
Even from when I started
honest kernel
Nice
warm osprey
So learning was way slower
honest kernel
My first character was a mess and a half
I'm surprised I even reached the point where maps were accessible lmao
warm osprey
Combine hades combat and arpg levels of customization and you have the greatest game to ever exist
Ya my first character was a molten strike life gain on hit marauder lmao
So trash
honest kernel
I think I was trying to split myself between totems and frost nova ? on a Templar
warm osprey
I think theres a lot of carry over between both games dodging wise
honest kernel
Or whatever the Red/Blue character is
warm osprey
Ya templar
mossy zinc
I have no idea what PoE is.
warm osprey
Once you get experience, you can tell what the best build will be just from patch notes
honest kernel
PoE -> Path of Exile
gaunt fiber
Path of Exile
warm osprey
Especially if the changes are lame like last patch
mossy zinc
I . . . have no idea what Path of Exile is.
mossy zinc
Who is?
gaunt fiber
You
mossy zinc
warm osprey
For seeded runs, do you have to do the manipulation thing?
honest kernel
Depends on how far you want to seed it
First room boon/hammer ? won't matter too much, unless hitting the shades at the beginning somehow changes the result
Anything beyond that ? Basically required
gaunt fiber
I accidently seeded a run until room 4 fully loaded once
honest kernel
Destroy a pillar, cast at a wall to pick the bloodstone up ... plenty of actions will change the future outcomes
gaunt fiber
Could do it almost consistently
warm osprey
Is there a mod that seeds?
honest kernel
in the Speedrunning Discord, I think there are tools for that
I know they have a full-on channel for routed stuff
warm osprey
Would be sick to practice
honest kernel
@warm osprey I can DM the invite link if you want
gaunt fiber
It's really strange
gaunt fiber
Alright I need a meme run to warm up
mossy zinc
For seeded runs, do you have to do the manipulation thing?
Seeded just means it's not unseeded. You can route if you want, but you don't have to. If you play the same seed a lot, you'll inevitably do some minor routing in Tartarus and then possibly early Asphodel.
warm osprey
Interesting
mossy zinc
Any unseeded run that can't be verified because no previous death is shown should be submitted under seeded.
warm osprey
Do any of you guys turn on god mode to practice dad?
mossy zinc
Nope.
gaunt fiber
God mode is my standard state
warm osprey
And how does showing the death previously prove the run isnt seeded? Isnt room rng based on actions?
gaunt fiber
it is but you could have been resetting a lot
warm osprey
Wait
gaunt fiber
And you have to start with a decent start to do that
Previous death shows that you did not reset
warm osprey
If you press give up, is the seed the same
gaunt fiber
Yes
gaunt fiber
That's why we need the death
Even though it should be possible to mod it
But that's just not the spirit of this channel
warm osprey
Ya I feel like the fun of it is searching for the god run
Like theres no pressure if a god seed is guaranteed
gaunt fiber
I don't lmao
it just feels "legit" I'd say
lmao
I'm running Rama thunder flourish
Well, you should know that distant memory adds about 0 damage
sly remnant
Ya I feel like the fun of it is searching for the god run
I dont know if "fun" is the word I would use but it is how we play
gaunt fiber
Common lv 8 thunder flourish is 69 damage
dapper arch
very nice
stoic carbon
what counts as "high heat"?
rain sedge
astaos' max heat +1
gaunt fiber
oof
tidal flame
Cyber bullying :(
gaunt fiber
Donate to help the victims
tidal flame
Sending thoughts and prayers
gaunt fiber
Stingy Fox.
sly remnant
High heat is anything you are struggling with
gaunt fiber
Tyler is a nice guy. He will donate.
tidal flame
Donate more insults more likely 
lusty mirage
someone said 61 heat was done, did i miss it?
rain sedge
who did what now?
lusty mirage
found a stream i hadn't seen before and guy was saying 61 heat zeus shield done. highest i knew of was 60 heat rama
gaunt fiber
Nothing new here
clever otter
what counts as "high heat"?
High heat typically refers to 32 and above because of the last statue, though you’ll usually see people pushing much higher in this channel
stoic carbon
thank you
gaunt fiber
oh we did not actually answer
Sorry
32+ sure thing
We start at 32 for the statue indeed. The next jump is 40 heat. This is where things are getting hard
vernal hatch
i struggle so much with EM4 FO2 hades 
you guys have any advice?
i feel like i need to be playing him completely different from usual
ripe crane
It is a completely different fight than regular dad. I don't know that there is any better advice than to practice it
Though honestly few people here play it regularly. EM4 is usually the last thing to be turned on or close to it
vernal hatch
makes sense
regular dad usually ends up working out if you just keep on the attack
but this makes me wonder if i need to go back to only attacking during the right opening
tho that makes the fight drag on
stoic carbon
get there with 3 death defiances and take your time and distance figuring out the attacks
but try to keep attacking as well
trial and error, trial and error
sly remnant
You really need to practice i frame dodging for the fight. You can't afford to play it super safe
stoic carbon
^
vernal hatch
mmmm
i still dream of a hermes boon
"Increase i-frames on your dodge"
im gonna go study the heat wr run
ripe crane
"Increase i-frames on your dodge"
Athena dash is pretty close 😛
stoic carbon
oh yeah, stubborn roots is really good
vernal hatch
Athena dash is pretty close 😛
ah, thats true
stoic carbon
Athena dash is pretty close 😛
it's more of a "you can dash attack with iframes"
vernal hatch
you can usually dash attack with i frames no?
stoic carbon
nope
stoic carbon
but hey, the first phase is the hardest
sly remnant
The late attack in dash attack is how you get the iframes
But thats very hard to do and not reliable
vernal hatch
ohhhhhhh
stoic carbon
so athena helps a tonne
vernal hatch
im pretty sure its what ive been doing the whole time
vernal hatch
sorry, didnt mean to boast or anything, im just surprised it works that way
sly remnant
Nah you good
vernal hatch
definitely doesnt work well on rail tho
but does explain why i occasionally dont get iframes when i think i should
honest kernel
The reason why it happens is, the moment you initiate an attack during your dash, you lose all your I-frames
sly remnant
^baj explained it better than me
vernal hatch
ah
gaunt fiber
Tho you can dash, get the iframe and then strike
I do that frequently for the powercouple
sly remnant
Its a requirement with sword
vernal hatch
sword can be so rough
vernal hatch
its weird how it feels so different from fists
animations are just longer
which aspect are you using?
vernal hatch
do you run artemis attack on nemesis? or is it better to get high % attack like aphro?
im guessing stacking other artemis boons is still practically required, but i didnt do the math on different attack boons
sly remnant
I want to be clear that I am not a good sword player and there are much more qualified people in this channel to get sword advice from. But yes I go arti attack since crit chance is additive
vernal hatch
its good to get opinions from all around, im no pro either, its fun to discuss 
vernal hatch
Remember when I said I did not hate EM4
but the M U S I C
gaunt fiber
yeah I turn the volume to the max tho
vernal hatch
getting too pumped from the music and making mistakes is the real challenge of phase 3
honest kernel
Artemis attack on Nemesis is optimal damage, alongside Hunter Dash
Aphrodite attack kinda just ... falls off by comparaison
Fantastic special to get tho, to open up Heart Rend
Divine Dash also good for safety
Those are the core boons you want
mossy zinc
it's more of a "you can dash attack with iframes"
Divine Dash doesn't give i-frames.
vernal hatch
doesnt it make you functionally invincible?
mossy zinc
Nope. Doesn't work on attacks that can't be deflected, and needs to deflect an attack before it would hit you.
Obviously still very good.
vernal hatch
cant believe im learning all this after ~300 runs
weak gyro
What is considered the best way to farm Darkness? Clearing low heat over and over?
vernal hatch
looking for the +% chaos boon helps a lot too
mossy zinc
If you get hit on the same frame it would deflect take attack, you take the damage, and the attack won't be deflected.
@weak gyro I never bothered deliberately farming Darkness. If you can clear whatever Heat you want to clear, you can just do that and get Darkness naturally without deliberately farming.
vernal hatch
anything after lvl 3 feels awful
gaunt fiber
It's common too but I don't really care about that either
vernal hatch
when i first started, i was kinda hoping at lvl 5 the ability would like "level up" somehow
common artemis is fine, yea
vernal hatch
is that pressure points in the first row? poms into that scale pretty well
mossy zinc
If you run Excalibur with Weak, sure.
gaunt fiber
It's hunter's mark
mossy zinc
Pressure Points is always just +1%. That's not very much at all.
gaunt fiber
I got it way too late
vernal hatch
It's hunter's mark
my bad, thanks
vernal hatch
Pressure Points is always just +1%. That's not very much at all.
but it scales all your other damage
gaunt fiber
Like I never critted it was so frustrating
sly remnant
If you have no other sources of crit poms in PP are excellent
gaunt fiber
I like epic Pressure Points
Good for random Fully loaded too
I have a GY40 fully loaded iirc
sly remnant
Increasing your amoynt of critical by 50 or 33 percent with one pom is incredible value
mossy zinc
Lol okay.
gaunt fiber
Increasing your amoynt of critical by 50 or 33 percent with one pom is incredibl...
what?
vernal hatch
its true tho, not many boons get a 50% increase in efficiency from a single pom
vernal hatch
2% to 3%
vernal hatch
=50% increase
gaunt fiber
We're talking about pomming it
which is a bad idea so who cares if the increase is a big number
sly remnant
One pom in pressure points at low rarity is very effective because of the math. Im not saying its always optimal but with no other sources of crit its far better than throwing a pom in an attack boon
vernal hatch
i suppose its only better when your build has multiple good sources of damage
vernal hatch
since it enhances your other boons
gaunt fiber
Yeah I can see that
vernal hatch
i can get why it sucks on a rama build
gaunt fiber
well it's like a crutch for deadly strike
But I would not want that
any Artemis boon would be better
sly remnant
Again as I said every time
This is with "no other sources of crit"
Or more accurately when your main sources of damage do not have crit
vernal hatch
makes sense, since crit boons have lower base damage to account for crit