h1-high-heat-strategies

[sly remnant]

45 heat is....rough to streak all aspects on. aspects really start being separated in terms of strength once you move past 40 heat

heat does not increase difficulty linearly

[true fable]

theBIGprint, to put it into some sort of context it's not that 40 is the most impressive number, but streaking in particular requires consistency

[proud jay]

i thought it would be much harder

it still wasn't easy, not at all

[true fable]

i missed arthur, was it owl pendant start?

[proud jay]

TD2 was a big discovery

[sly remnant]

i doubt most of us in here could have done what bablo did (myself definitely couldn't)

[proud jay]

yeah lucked out and found divine dash, even with AP1

[true fable]

oo nice

[cedar thistle]

and never saw athena ever again

[true fable]

im at a measly 3 streak rn tyler

probably gonna end with nemesis 40 next

[proud jay]

LOL yeah 1 athena boon run

[true fable]

F

[proud jay]

it's quite rare if you start with it

[sly remnant]

poseidon loved you tho bablo

[true fable]

the opposite side to the 6 athena boon tartarus on chiron

[proud jay]

yeah poseidon carried big time

[sly remnant]

he really wanted his nephew to suceed

[true fable]

i was literally dumbfounded during that chiron run

[sly remnant]

i feel like things we learned dduring bablo run

TD3 is incredibly unreliable. its just not worth the risk until you really start pushing heat

[rain sedge]

What's the Poseidon thing?

[sly remnant]

athena good. she just is

bablo is good

the difference between CF1 and CF2 is honestly more than 1 heat

trials and troves are gonna make a comeback below 45 and 50 heat i think

[proud jay]

arthur run ended up being a curse of drowning run

[sly remnant]

also....sword really struggles once you get past the 36ish heat mark

[true fable]

o pog

[sly remnant]

just from watching thats what i learned

[true fable]

yeah i like that td2 means troves are worth looking into

[sly remnant]

i'm sure bablo learned even more

[true fable]

i always forget to

[proud jay]

sword is real scuffed if you don't find good boons

or hammers

[sly remnant]

spear is rough but honestly not as bad as i thought.

[true fable]

which spear tho lol

[sly remnant]

in general

zag spear still a PoS

[proud jay]

too hammer specific

and special animation is... weird

[true fable]

the base spear special is just such an awkward move

[sly remnant]

i made the argument that i think no weapon other than hestia can take CF2 below 40. i rescind that because of the TD2 + trove discovery

(tho there are still weapons that do not like CF2)

[proud jay]

and weapons that don't mind it too much

[sly remnant]

agreed

i was flat wrong

[proud jay]

hestia really is the only one that doesn't care too much about it lol

all you need is a couple of quality boons

[sly remnant]

also we knew DC was bad, but holy crap

[true fable]

was no DC most of the runs?

[proud jay]

i used DC2 in most runs

[sly remnant]

the weapons that could deal with DC2 easily were so much easier at 40 heat from what i could tell

[true fable]

i still have no idea what to do for zag spear 40 so im just gonna shove it to the end and hope

[proud jay]

i start with zeus on zag spear

i think?

[true fable]

interesting

[proud jay]

well you can anyway

[true fable]

attack?

[proud jay]

yeah

apparently special is ok too

and even cast is fine

basically anything with jolted is good

[sly remnant]

zeus's ability to deal with DC without taking the hit that Hangover has is huge

tho hangover performed better than i expected

[true fable]

i was thinking about just owl pendant starting but zag spear honestly might still be too slow

will probably try signet into pendant in aspho if i get there

[humble parrot]

What's the highest heat that's been done with Zeus shield? And what keepsakes/boons would you recommend for Zeus Shield beyond 32 heat?

[true fable]

57

@honest kernel thou art summoned o expert

[proud jay]

i feel like zeus shield has a lot of options

[true fable]

seems like tempest flourish is the only huge nono

fwiw my 40 heat zeus shield clear was just with standard zeus special stuff

baj's 50 heat clear was with arty special

[humble parrot]

Ooh, I haven't tried Artemis on it yet

[proud jay]

crazy damage with heart rend, deadly reversal, or even splitting headache

[humble parrot]

Zeus shield is the only weapon that I have done 32 heat with, so I'm not that experienced at high heat. If I want to go to say, 40 what would be a good strategy? Gradually increase my heat, or straight to 40? Also, any pacts in particular to avoid

[true fable]

^

theres just a lot of flexibility

[humble parrot]

Awesome!

[true fable]

i would say just avoid RI/AP

[humble parrot]

Alright, thank you very much ^^

[sly remnant]

to be clear. zeus shield is one of the aspects that can deal with RI and AP, but it will stunt your understanding of the weapon. having options allows you to experiment and try things out that you just wouldn't be able to before

[true fable]

CF also probably hurts more than you think it does imo

but im a big spenda so that might be a personal thing

[sly remnant]

decision making is important. AP and RI are just going to limit the decisions you are going to make.

i also think CF is worse than it appears but i am also a big spender

[proud jay]

RI also means less stuff overall

[gaunt fiber]

yeah like

less dash

less hp, less revive

[proud jay]

i mean dark foresight

[gaunt fiber]

(I know)

[proud jay]

less gold laurel rewards

but yeah all points in RI matter quite a bit

[sly remnant]

Dark Foresight singlehandedly allows boon based weapons to compete above 45

[dire steppe]

dark forehead is op

[true fable]

i didnt realize dark foresight pushed rewards 20% in both directions until lamb pointed it out

[dire steppe]

dark foresight = 100% gold after tartarus

[proud jay]

i think you can still get a blue laurel

probably depends on how many chaos and mid-shops you enter

but im not sure about how those factor in

[gaunt fiber]

I like how enemies attacks are not interrupted by their death

But Zag's are

[true fable]

did you die again astaos

[gaunt fiber]

I did yeah

[true fable]

we told you to stop that

[gaunt fiber]

I must complete this run

[waxen relic]

Lowest Unseeded on the Sheet is Poseidon now at 40

[sly remnant]

sword past 40 gets sketchy

[true fable]

all because retrash forgot to show death

retrash has a 51 heat poseidon that was his first run of the day

[upbeat wyvern]

Hello guys, care to give me some advice on a good heat increase progression? So far, playing in hell mode with EM4 (15 heat). Everything is fairly easy beside the last boss who is extremely challenging. I was thinking about dropping to EM3. What other punishment do you suggest i introduce little by little?

[true fable]

EM3 is a good call

[sly remnant]

how high do you want to push

[true fable]

FO/BP/MM are all ones you want to get used to if you plan to do 32+

HL as well

[sly remnant]

FO2 is the biggest adjustment you'll have to make

every enemy is going to punish your positioning so much more

[humble parrot]

All 40+ runs use FO2 right?

[true fable]

just about yea

maybe some arthur runs dont

[sly remnant]

(which is why arthur really struggles above 36/40)

FO2 is by no means free heat for any weapon

its just even worse for arthur

[true fable]

Golgoth to address your initial question, the only huge nonos are AP/RI/EM4 for the most part

[sly remnant]

(i like EM4)

[true fable]

those are the only ones i'd strongly caution against

[sly remnant]

but i'm in the minority

[true fable]

i like it too but its really weapon dependent

[sly remnant]

agreed

biggest advice i can say is

customize the pact to the weapon

[true fable]

or requires huge experience

[sly remnant]

even then its a long fight

if you are running TD3 EM4 every weapon is gonna be a little scared

[shy plinth]

Wait a minute if we're talking hell mode EM4 that means straight up just the 5 defaults and 10 heat from EM right

At 15 heat

[true fable]

yup

lol

[sly remnant]

yep

[shy plinth]

There are a lot of options to adjust that config

Like if nothing else you'll really wanna get used to tight deadline

[sly remnant]

eh

[shy plinth]

At least TD2

[sly remnant]

i mean

i feel like yall naturally get used to TD2

just by playing

[humble parrot]

I agree ^

[shy plinth]

I don't disagree but just getting used to paying attention to the timer and pausing etc

I'll rephrase, if I were starting a hell mode save, my first 10 heat would not include EM4

TD is worth getting used to and is probably pretty free for most people, BP and MM are worth learning, UC after that

[sly remnant]

oooo

[true fable]

yee agreed

[sly remnant]

i disagree with putting UC on that early

[proud jay]

UC kinda messes with your re-rolls

[shy plinth]

I guess that's just a question again of how far you're pushing

[proud jay]

game is a lot simpler if you don't have UC on

[sly remnant]

limiting/reducing your boon pool is bad when learning. you'll just not experiment as much

make the game harder. don't take things away from yourself

to isolate what is important to weapons....you have to have a lot of options and critically think about the weapon and whats doing work and what isn't

[proud jay]

could argue that with UC and stuff you learn the weapon better

otherwise you just play the boons

[sly remnant]

oh they absolutely do

but i would say learning boons is important first

then start taking things away from yourself

"i know this is good on this weapon because i tried it for craps and giggles"

"i can sell this because it never really mattered"

like for instance, me taking hunter's dash in tartarus on my 50 was because I knew how much damage it adds when you aren't using your cast. it doesn't open up mirage shot, but i played the weapon a lot to know how important it can carry you out of tartarus

if you watch my 50....the reason i kill meg so fast is because of ravenous will + hunter dash

and then i sell hunter dash because it doesn't matter anymore

[burnt perch]

#h1-high-heat-strategies message

[upbeat wyvern]

Ok thanks for all the advice guys!

[gaunt fiber]

Does LC3 make any sense?

Or 25% is just not relevant

[rain sedge]

What heat?

[gaunt fiber]

32

[rain sedge]

There's LC3, only LC2 or LC4 in my book

[gaunt fiber]

Hm

[rain sedge]

Why would you need to not play LC4 anyway astaos

Or is this for another person

[gaunt fiber]

Another person?

[rain sedge]

Also lol, when I type astaos on my phone, the next suggested word is "WeirdChamp"

Can't make this up lol

[gaunt fiber]

Lmao

I'm considering LC2/3 for a "challenge run"

[true fable]

i only do LC4 or 0 lol

[rain sedge]

What's the challenge...?

[gaunt fiber]

It's 32 mirrorless tempest strike Guan Yu

It was a secret but I let you know

[rain sedge]

I m e a n

Just get charged skewer and dont use the attack

[mossy zinc]

LC3 will give you 1 HP per chamber.

[gaunt fiber]

No I won't use charged skewer

[rain sedge]

I don't see why it's a challenge

[gaunt fiber]

Only spin hammers

[rain sedge]

If the challenge is to not use the special at all

Now we're talking

[gaunt fiber]

Nah

No special is tough for dps

[rain sedge]

And I'd still take LC4 since you're healing off spin

[gaunt fiber]

That would be valid

If not tempest strike

[rain sedge]

But I'm not a GY expert, just a casual

[gaunt fiber]

I went to styx already but Elysium is tough

Can't really heal

[gaunt fiber]

That's pretty good

I can lower HL a bit too

But if I don't take any risk to dps I'm slow

[mossy zinc]

Just focus on Attack rather than Spin.

[gaunt fiber]

Idk

It's kinda bad with 30% modifier

Maybe if I just hit stuff against walls

[true fable]

now youre talkin

body slams/wall slams

more than makes up for +30%

[gaunt fiber]

Impaler GY

Just so you know, Epic tempest strike lv 2 has a 69% modifier

[rain sedge]

Nice

[gaunt fiber]

I tried to complete the run without pomming it

But I died

[true fable]

did you know

common tempest strike

takes 14 poms to reach +100%

why did they do this

[gaunt fiber]

Lmao

Maybe Conch > pom blossom > pom blossom > pom blossom

[true fable]

lol

[gaunt fiber]

Any advice? @lusty mirage

[lusty mirage]

oh you're serious about tempest strike?

[gaunt fiber]

Sure am

[lusty mirage]

probably rather have more hp than pom it up

like for the weekly challenge 3 with all green mirror GY, started with cerberus collar

could use high confidence to boost dmg since tempest strike keeps things away

[gaunt fiber]

it's mirrorless

[lusty mirage]

oh yeah sorry

[gaunt fiber]

I did the jade challenge yesterday, was fun

well it was GY

then fun, of course

[lusty mirage]

can always do splash dash / seastorm with your tempest strike

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah I really fish for sea storm

But I never get it lol

[lusty mirage]

my fastest time on GY was a seastorm

[mossy zinc]

It's not really a Tempest Strike run if it's a Tidal Dash run lol.

[gaunt fiber]

nah I mean seastorm on tempest strike

I would not cheat

[lusty mirage]

so are you only allowed tempest strike for knockback?

no cast or call, etc?

[gaunt fiber]

hm

I think cast or call would be fair

since it's hell already

[lusty mirage]

well then poseidon>owl for divine dash

i mean conch into owl

bablo showed us how consistent it can be

[formal gust]

ok speedruns are really killing my sanity maybe I should stop putting off high heat stuff

[tidal flame]

[formal gust]

wdym the losing my sanity part is resetting

on high heat at least you can get away with playing things out

[gaunt fiber]

https://imgur.com/WIVPCI3

awesome start

[formal gust]

perhaps I will

45 hestia

I said 40 but

I'm feeling kinda spicy

does hestia take em4

[rain sedge]

You need rupture for that and you're Gucci astaos

[formal gust]

rupture best status

[gaunt fiber]

argh

[sly remnant]

i feel like if hestia can't take EM4 at 45

[gaunt fiber]

Meg+Tisi

rip

[sly remnant]

then EM4 is severely underheated

[formal gust]

?

[sly remnant]

what i mean is

[lusty mirage]

em4 could be like a 1.5 multiplier on your other heat

or something

[sly remnant]

if it is not correct to take EM4 at 45 heat on the second best EM4 weapon

then EM4 isn't worth enought

[formal gust]

but I am trash at em4

that is an incredibly overcomplicated way of saying what you are trying to say

[lusty mirage]

for me it usually comes down to if i got extra dashes or not

[formal gust]

oh hey hestia person

[ripe crane]

Now I remember why I don't like flying cutter. Does nothing when you dash special

[formal gust]

what do you recommend for bestia aspect 45

[ripe crane]

Depends how you feel about EM4

[formal gust]

I guess I can try to learn it with hestia

I changed my name since I am taking a break from speedruns

[ripe crane]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/679466835283804306/787423859015942205/unknown.png do this with shackle for ez win

[formal gust]

hmmm

[ripe crane]

Or you can take AP down and turn HL/CF up if you want at least a chance of decent boons

[true fable]

cin thats how i felt after hours of reset hell beowulf

at least in high heat i can simply die

[sly remnant]

does anyone know for sure if blackout only takes effect after the trippy shot explosion

or does the trippy shot explosion count

[mossy zinc]

You forgot two ranks of RI there.

[true fable]

tyler i think it doesnt apply to the first but does to the second on

[ripe crane]

Actually I did mean to try a mirrorless hesty

[true fable]

so if you double cast your second one will be blackout boosted

[formal gust]

hestia just does not care about anything besides damage control

[ripe crane]

P much

JS gets annoying, but that's any weapon

[formal gust]

how important is ricochet

[ripe crane]

Not necessary at all but it's one of the best you can find

[true fable]

is it piercing & ricochet both s tier?

[proud jay]

i'd say so

[ripe crane]

Ya. Explosive not quite as good but still nice

[sly remnant]

man two days off and i can not get out of tartarus

[daring hedge]

this might help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqFaCDvHxU4

[gaunt fiber]

Hypnos advice tier are increasing lately

[sly remnant]

lmao tail

[rain sedge]

I feel like tail's avatar looks familiar

but I can't remember from where, and if it's a game or not

[shy plinth]

Is this a meme

[ripe crane]

Hmmmm

[gaunt fiber]

hmm

[daring hedge]

[shy plinth]

Have you considered doing a barrel roll

[ripe crane]

Looks like some sort of animal

[rain sedge]

I can see it's a fox

[ripe crane]

Maybe an animal with a tail?

[sly remnant]

idk

[gaunt fiber]

we should name it

[sly remnant]

he's gotta a twinkly quality

[rain sedge]

googling foxtail puts me to some sort of plant

[sly remnant]

kind of

[gaunt fiber]

how would you name a fox?

[ripe crane]

He has a scanner on, like in dbz

[rain sedge]

stop shaming people who don't play that game 😦

[shy plinth]

I'd actually be curious what the fox says

[ripe crane]

I name him Foxgeta

[gaunt fiber]

that's a long name

[rain sedge]

foxtails are apparently dangerous for dogs, hmm

[ripe crane]

That is long. It kinda looks like he's in space?

[sly remnant]

that explains the twinkly quality

whats twinkly and in space

[shy plinth]

Moon Fox?

[rain sedge]

foxspace turns out nothing

stop trolling pls 😦

[gaunt fiber]

hm

I can guess a sort of astronomical object in the background

[rain sedge]

@mossy zinc I have been bullied, can you help pls

[gaunt fiber]

it would emit light for sure

[rain sedge]

foxlight also gives out nothing

[shy plinth]

Is the astronomical object a planet

[gaunt fiber]

it's not a planet

[shy plinth]

Ok good

I was about to google fox uranus and felt nervous

[ripe crane]

Here's a hint: he's a character in a fighting game

[upper edge]

Man I hope this is all a ruse

[sly remnant]

oh oh oh

got it

laser fox

thats it right

[rain sedge]

I mean that's probably why I don't know it, I've never played a fighting game

I FOUND IT

I googled "fox in a fighting game" and it showed me some pictures, which one is fox mccloud

[daring hedge]

MISSION COMPLETE

[rain sedge]

I would have never guessed that

[gaunt fiber]

come on

[sly remnant]

this has to be a troll

[gaunt fiber]

astro object that makes light

[upper edge]

Are you like.... fourteen?

[rain sedge]

from a starfox game

[upper edge]

Or am I just too old

[rain sedge]

I dont even know what that is

let me read the wikipedia

[gaunt fiber]

[rain sedge]

it looks like an old nintendo game

which makes sense that I don't know it

[shy plinth]

Why did I look up dates

Star Fox 64 came out 23 years ago

[rain sedge]

that's nya, I'm almost twice that

[shy plinth]

I feel old

Yeah it's star fox lol

Was in some popular SNES/N64 games and then ended up being one of the best smash bros characters

[gaunt fiber]

wdym "that's nya"

[rain sedge]

I never played smash bros

[rain sedge]

she's in school, she lives in germany, simple maths means she must be <18 as that's the age you start uni in europe

I hope you're younger than her astaos, or I'll feel bad that you're getting bullied

[gaunt fiber]

well

[rain sedge]

" Star Fox Zero was developed by Nintendo and PlatinumGames for the Wii U and released in April 2016. The first Star Fox game on a home game console in over 10 years "

[gaunt fiber]

I won't say anything I don't want problems

[shy plinth]

The wii u?

Wow

[mossy zinc]

I can help bullying you, certainly.

[rain sedge]

ok so the last game that I could realistically play was the star fox command, which is on a DS, on 2006

in 2006 I'm about... 12, and poor, and didn't have a DS

cool I don't feel bad for not knowing what starfox is, despite your best effort, channel

[rain sedge]

but I paid protection money to you, you're supposed to be my backing 😦

[mossy zinc]

Looks like taxes have been raised. Pay up.

[rain sedge]

this is like the time the soapland paid protection money to the seiryu clan at the new yakuza game, and they didn't back the soapland up

[gaunt fiber]

It was a game, no one wants anyone to feel bad here

n o o n e

[rain sedge]

I didn't even play that game lmfao I only watched the twitch stream

it was hilarious, I actually chuckled IRL watching some of the stream

[true fable]

MISSHUN COMPRETE

[rain sedge]

is this one of the things this starfox says

let me google that

[true fable]

sorry schad this is super funny

[daring hedge]

yes mr. starfox says it

[true fable]

have you never heard of fox mccloud

[rain sedge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pZa8YobAeg

[true fable]

did you just think tailesque picked some random fox with a visor

[rain sedge]

he has a.... russian accent?

[rain sedge]

no we had an entire conversation about this

[rain sedge]

I mean, I know it's not random but it struck me as somehow familiar-looking

I just never cared before

like your avatar looks random, but I know it's probably not, but from some obscure game

[mossy zinc]

I don't know if you can call the others pointing fingers at you and laughing while you try to figure it out a conversation.

[true fable]

its from a fairly unpopular netflix show

yours is bioshock infinite?

[rain sedge]

actually crepes' avatar also looks familiar but I think it's from some food mascot or something

[proud jay]

mine and nyaa's avatars are almost in the same universe

[rain sedge]

yea bioshock infinite, very pog concept of a game

I know yours is from digimon bablo

[daring hedge]

lmao

[true fable]

crepes' is from princess remedy 2 i believe

[mossy zinc]

Oh god.

[true fable]

LOL

[daring hedge]

SCHAD

[rain sedge]

and nya picked probably one of the most popular gaming game in the world

?????????????

[upper edge]

oof

[rain sedge]

WAIT IM WRONG

theres a similar looking plant digimon

[gaunt fiber]

...

[proud jay]

wait you were serious?

[true fable]

any last words boyo

[rain sedge]

oh no no no no no

[upper edge]

It's okay kid, no one's expecting you to be right after the Starfox thing

[daring hedge]

bablo he didn't know fox mccloud

[gaunt fiber]

Just ban him

[daring hedge]

it's serious

[rain sedge]

I honestly thought it's from the digimon cartoon

[true fable]

schad is this a switch player thing

[hollow lynx]

[rain sedge]

NO I WAS RIGHT

it's called togemon

it's a digimon evolution

[sly remnant]

JESUS HE IS DOUBLING DOWN

[rain sedge]

you nerds

stop making me feel bad

[daring hedge]

i can't handle this

[gaunt fiber]

lmao

[proud jay]

this guy

[gaunt fiber]

thanks Schad

[sly remnant]

itss not effin togemon

holy crap

[rain sedge]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/digimon-adventure5140/images/b/b0/Togemon_(tri).jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161221042923

LOOK AT THIS

[upper edge]

He's so proud of being wrong, guys

[proud jay]

<- look at this

[rain sedge]

cactus + has limbs + yellow crown

literally only missing boxing gloves for all I know why

[daring hedge]

ah, the profile picture of player bobla

[rain sedge]

alright where is it from

[upper edge]

Cactuar is a recurring enemy in the Final Fantasy series

[proud jay]

cactuar from ff8 iirc

[upper edge]

Final Fantasy, btw, is a video game

[true fable]

bobla lol im dying

[upper edge]

Cactuar was in FF before 8, right? I'm not mandela'ing here?

[true fable]

schad just as a checkpoint you know where astaos' pfp is from right

[sly remnant]

cactuar was in 7 for sure

[proud jay]

must've been before 8

[sly remnant]

its been too long since i played 6

[rain sedge]

The Cactuar (サボテンダー, Sabotendā?, lit. Cactender) is a recurring creature in the Final Fantasy series that has appeared as an enemy and summon.

[rain sedge]

yes of course, it's yugioh, I even know what meme is this

it's the you activated a trap card meme

[upper edge]

Have you heard of Final Fantasy, Schad

[mossy zinc]

They first appeared in VI.

[rain sedge]

I PLAYED FF NERDS

[gaunt fiber]

Hey

[sly remnant]

did u

how did you play ff and not fight a cactuar

[gaunt fiber]

good job dude it's indeed Yugi

I'm impressed

[proud jay]

https://imgur.com/a/H5i4azY
40 heat - thoughts?

[mossy zinc]

Yugi from Pokémon.

[gaunt fiber]

from Pokémon indeed

[rain sedge]

I'm looking at the list of games it appears in

so I didn't play any of it it would like

I played FF tactics, but not FF tactics S, which apparently it appears in

[gaunt fiber]

I died with sea storm

fml

[true fable]

i feel like zag bow is worse than that but 🤷

[rain sedge]

there's dissidia but... that's so long ago and I think it's only a minor appearance

[sly remnant]

beo at c tier? i'm not sold on that.

[true fable]

i also think achilles is pretty solid at 40 tbh

[daring hedge]

dem fists seems a little low

[rain sedge]

by 40+ are we talking 40, or 50?

[proud jay]

there's no plus

[true fable]

zeus feels like an s tier weapon

[sly remnant]

its hard to play tbf

[rain sedge]

I see that I am blind

[honest kernel]

I'm surprised at Arthur at E, for 40

[rain sedge]

why is lucifer A tier, really?

[sly remnant]

i'm not

[formal gust]

I need to level up my shackle lol it's rank 1

[daring hedge]

also luci at A is surprising but also i haven't messed with it much

[mossy zinc]

Would put Chiron in S.

[daring hedge]

especially after the special speed buff

[sly remnant]

its a rail that can use lightning strike

[proud jay]

lucifer has crazy damage

[honest kernel]

^

[true fable]

luci is super nice

[rain sedge]

eris is S tier for sure, it's super free. Not sure why chaos is S tier?

demeter is kinda low yeah

[proud jay]

chaos is super safe

[true fable]

i dont get zag bow/rail > dem fists tbh

[daring hedge]

also i can see zag bow being that high actually; you can basically slap shackle on it and get twin shot and call it a day

[gaunt fiber]

GY is safe you can heal

[true fable]

chaos is braindead and safe at 40 with td2

[honest kernel]

Wrong reply dammit

[rain sedge]

yea demeter is actually quite free

[proud jay]

10 -> 15% crit on zag bow did a lot

[honest kernel]

Was about to say this

[upper edge]

dis guy

[rain sedge]

hmm I'd take this argument

[sly remnant]

demeter was my first 40 clear

[mossy zinc]

I guess Chaos with low TD at 40? I was never much of a fan of Chaos Aspect tbh, always seemed overrated. But others make it work, can't argue with results.

[sly remnant]

its super easy to play

[daring hedge]

zag bow gets true innate deadly strike crit and i do appreciate that

[rain sedge]

I repeat again: eris is S tier, it's S U P E R free. The fact that it's lower than hestia and same tier as lucifer is a travesty

[true fable]

it's still A tier

[proud jay]

eris still needs to catch special for 4 seconds of damage

hestia doesn't need boons

[true fable]

idk you have to take risks with eris you dont have to with chaos/hestia for example

[rain sedge]

half of the people here can boot up hades RIGHT NOW and get a free eris 40 easily

[mossy zinc]

And then there's @gaunt fiber.

[rain sedge]

idk if you play with KBM you can just aim the special at yourself

[honest kernel]

When things like BP2, HL, FO are turned on, Eris actually becomes a bit more risky

Meanwhile Hestia does the same gameplan

[daring hedge]

isn't chiron rather easy to use at 40? i don't play it much but that seems to be the consensus

[sly remnant]

yea i'm fine with Eris at A tier

[true fable]

this might be controversial but i think zag sword > arthur

[sly remnant]

thats not controversial

[true fable]

low value argument but

[proud jay]

chiron doesn't deal a lot of damage without good boons/hammers

[gaunt fiber]

pretty sure I can eris 40 eyes closed

[solemn pulsar]

do a blindfolded run

do it

[mossy zinc]

I think Chiron 40 is free. Just start with Eternal Rose.

[rain sedge]

erh, it's kinda not. JS screws it a lot, and it kinda... plateaus

like of course if you get those 2 hammers it's free

[honest kernel]

Easy to use, but the damage is actually kinda low, it makes clearing rooms a bit of a slog. TD3 is a bit of a risk

[daring hedge]

you can avoid JS plenty at 40

[rain sedge]

but you do lack damage without at least 1 of the hammers

[sly remnant]

i'm with tail

[daring hedge]

but i do see that point

[honest kernel]

At 'least, compared to the other bow aspects

[mossy zinc]

You don't need JS at 40.

[proud jay]

i feel like people think chiron is a lot better than it actually is

[rain sedge]

and it needs... a decent chunk of boons to make up for the lack of damage

[sly remnant]

chiron slow

very slow

[daring hedge]

probably to do with the safety of it

[solemn pulsar]

i used chiron for my first 32 heat clear, and I don't think I've used it since tbh

and that was ~100 hours of playtime ago

[gaunt fiber]

Thanks btw

[rain sedge]

chiron at 32 is ultra free

chiron at 40... less soo

[solemn pulsar]

chiron in styx is ripper

[proud jay]

chiron is terrible in styx

[honest kernel]

^

[daring hedge]

lol i can imagine

[mossy zinc]

Sure thing. Always a pleasure.

[rain sedge]

so to make a chiron run have enough DPS, I usually need a decent artemis on special (pom/rarity), one of the special hammer, heart rend/chaos boon

you see it's a lot

rama needs what, 1 attack boon?

maybe 1 hammer to make it really easy

[daring hedge]

i also think hades spear is maybe more of a B tier than A; it's pretty average outside of serrated point

[rain sedge]

I'm fine with chiron at where it is. Eris is S tier, y'all can queue on the courtyard to 1v1 me

[gaunt fiber]

I don't doubt it

[solemn pulsar]

just finished a 12 minute IGT 40 heat clear with Rama, I really love this bow

[proud jay]

how about exploding launcher

[sly remnant]

the only reason i think beo should be C tier is its kind of hard to play, but its still insanely strong at 40 heat

[daring hedge]

ah forgot, that as well yeah

but you're still gunning for two specific hammers

[proud jay]

imo even extending jab is kinda ok

[rain sedge]

still B tier with extending jab

[daring hedge]

after doing a bunch of 45 boonless with it, disagree

it's underwhelming

[rain sedge]

half the time you dont even get the bonus

[proud jay]

yea i might be wrong about hades

but you don't need amazing damage with TD2

[north dove]

extending jab seems good on paper but in practice it does barely anything

[rain sedge]

I hate whoever popularised TD2

[daring hedge]

yeah pretty much

[gaunt fiber]

It's good to fight tiny vermin

[daring hedge]

why

[proud jay]

i took it from retrash

idk who came up with it

[north dove]

you can all blame me I guess

[rain sedge]

I mean retrash took it because he runs EM4, which in my book is pretty much the only reason you take TD2

[daring hedge]

it's not like the level of personal expression in the pact is huge at 40 or especially 50

[proud jay]

i think i did 24/24 runs with TD2

[north dove]

8 extra minutes is a lot

[true fable]

td2 makes the run a lot more lax imo

[sly remnant]

TD2 just lets you play super safe

[rain sedge]

yea but your runs are not "whichever pact is easiest" but more like "whichever pact will screw me over the least"

[daring hedge]

you can make builds work that would never make it in TD3

[sly remnant]

everyone should probably play TD2 at 40

[proud jay]

sack rng kills TD3

[north dove]

lets you take troves, skip shops and do fine even with a 5-sack

[true fable]

^

50 sack might be a little tight retrash

[proud jay]

also even tartarus can be quite long

[true fable]

even for you

[sly remnant]

tartarus is rough

[rain sedge]

imagine playing on PC and not modding your game to get max 3 sac

[north dove]

endless styx when? survive until timer runs out

[rain sedge]

real talk I'd venmo amir some cold hard cash to let me get max 3 sac on switch

[true fable]

imagine modding your game 🤣

[daring hedge]

tartarus is alongside elysium and sack rng biome in terms of pressure with TD3

[true fable]

youre gonna end up like dream lol

[sly remnant]

TD3 above 40 is really just to enable weapons that can't stand RI or AP

[rain sedge]

half of the reason I don't want to heat push is because I'm scared I'd get 4 sacced or something

the other half is that I havent got the game on PC lol

[true fable]

so just do td2

[sly remnant]

i promise every aspect except a few can play perfectly fine with TD2

[rain sedge]

I can't, my heat setup is all maxed up except for AP2, RI4, EM4

[true fable]

...

[rain sedge]

it's 53 heat

[true fable]

werent we talking about 40 heat rankings

[sly remnant]

even then drop TD3 for EM4 for one extra heat

like TD3 is really oppressive

its not obvious until you start doing JS and CP and bad DC weapons

but its super oppressive

[rain sedge]

I'm playing eris remember

[daring hedge]

sometimes it's worth taking AP2 to run TD2 and EM3

[rain sedge]

oh right nevermind

[daring hedge]

since common hard spots are just the time and superdad

[honest kernel]

Embrace AP2 Shackle strats

[rain sedge]

taking AP2 hurts my soul

[north dove]

AP2 coin purse start, let RNG decide your run

[rain sedge]

the mental damage from looking at the crossed out boons are too much

[true fable]

the retrash way tm

[daring hedge]

i honestly love shackle at high heat

[true fable]

do you always start coin purse btw

[sly remnant]

some aspects really can't take AP2

i'm pretty sure eris can

with shackle

[rain sedge]

the retrash way is to pick awful aspects with an awful build at an awfully high heat and post the screenshot to flex

[north dove]

nah, I take aphro start for arthur and zeus for some aspects that really need it

[rain sedge]

eris with shackle

[true fable]

for sure

[rain sedge]

literally 1/5th of the damage or something

[daring hedge]

i wouldn't say awful build

[sly remnant]

just drop shackle if you get a core boon you care about

[daring hedge]

a lot seem unconventional but definitely work

[true fable]

yeah its neat

[proud jay]

yeah i think unconventional rather than bad

[rain sedge]

let's be real here, retrash clears from his skills, not from his build

[true fable]

like meme beam 2/6 zag aspects

[rain sedge]

like the build was secondary

[true fable]

the build is part of the skill :^)

[sly remnant]

i imagine retrash is really good at rougelikes in general. He just figures out the niche for everything

[north dove]

3/6 but I had to sell one at some point

[daring hedge]

that's how high heat works in general because you don't really get to make a build

[true fable]

oh F

[rain sedge]

I'm just a casual player sorry, don't really know high heat 😦

[proud jay]

does meme beam do anything without glacial glare tho

[honest kernel]

It's ok damage

Nothing impressive

[rain sedge]

if meme beam has 20% tracking speed I feel like it's gonna come to parity with a lot of other casts

[honest kernel]

I usually don't have trouble lining it up so even a common cast does like 100+ damage

[rain sedge]

but IMO without the artemis duo it's just kinda.... awkward

[proud jay]

i guess its value increases with RI3

[daring hedge]

meme beam with ravenous will and lightning rod tho

now there's a build

[proud jay]

lightning rod makes me want to go infernal soul

[daring hedge]

it's fun when it works honestly

i know we always dunk on it but i still like lightning rod

[proud jay]

imo it's one of the better boons in general

[true fable]

it always does things

[honest kernel]

Lightning Rod is a fantastic duo to get if you don't focus much on casts specifically

[daring hedge]

it's a huge set it and forget it damage source

[true fable]

70 damage is also qyite large

and its radius is the size of a continent

[proud jay]

it's like S-tier on beo

[honest kernel]

Is it ?

[sly remnant]

😠

[proud jay]

excuse me?

[true fable]

your wr had it instead of snow burst right?

[proud jay]

yeah my wr used it

[daring hedge]

free super snow burst at worst after finishing an infernal rush

it's good

[sly remnant]

real talk

[proud jay]

your casts are out like 50% of the time

[sly remnant]

i'm probably gonna drop stygian beo for infernal

so bablo is right

[honest kernel]

I was thinking that the reduced range pickup would harm Beo more than anything

But it makes sense that it works fine

[rain sedge]

@true fable how does it feel to be betrayed like this?

[true fable]

im used to it

[sly remnant]

I DID IT AT 50 HEAT

i feel like i've proved it

[true fable]

you end up bull rushing back across the stones anyway

[sly remnant]

i'm gonna make stygian beo do 52 but after that i'm done with it

infernal beo cna run shackle and RI stuff

it doesn't like it but it can

[formal gust]

got to lernie on 46 hestia

[true fable]

have you tried shacklewulf? its not great

[sly remnant]

i have

[formal gust]

making progress

[sly remnant]

its good for getting out of tartarus and then you drop it

[formal gust]

i was stuck with poseidon attack

[true fable]

??

ap2?

[formal gust]

yeah lol

[sly remnant]

hestia is a good ap2 weapon

[rain sedge]

might be the best one

yknow what

I might try more weapons at 32

hestia looks fun, hera looks fun

hestia is literally just artemis/aphro attack right?

hera lightning cast?

[gaunt fiber]

[true fable]

hera lightning cast? usually crush shot i think

i used crush shot for my 32 hera

[honest kernel]

Hera with Zeus cast is a first lol

Always seen Aphro cast

Or like Athena cast or whatever

[true fable]

i think hera with zeus cast is some cursed pre HC era build

[proud jay]

HC?

[true fable]

hermes cup?

[proud jay]

oh, that one

[rain sedge]

crush shot is it

extra cast or faster cast load?

[true fable]

was it ever a thing bablo?

[proud jay]

i think i was the first one to start using hera for all weapons

[honest kernel]

Extra cast on Hera

You have built-in quick reload

But both can work fine

[proud jay]

there was hera run in hermes cup before i started running it but i think they didn't use zeus cast?

and my ~44 heat hera run pre-dated hermes cup and runned crush shot

[rain sedge]

cool

[proud jay]

i don't think zeus cast on hera was ever a serious thing

[rain sedge]

if I see your 40 hera run from your streak bablo, would it be quite close to what I'm lookign at?

[proud jay]

umm i might have started with athena

idk

[daring hedge]

speaking of weird stuff on hera: i would like to see cold embrace meme beam hera

[true fable]

dude its so cool

not good but very neat

[sly remnant]

i like builds that are neat

[true fable]

literally just hades tower defense

[proud jay]

hera is weak with non-spammy casts

[north dove]

maybe I'll roll into that with coin purse start

who knows

[sly remnant]

nobody knows how a retrash build is gonna go

not even the game

but its gonna work

[honest kernel]

Not even the Fates themselves

[rain sedge]

what other boons work with hera? mirage shot and arty legendary like usual?

[proud jay]

snow burst, exit wounds

[sly remnant]

arti legendary is a big high roll

[honest kernel]

... Artemis Cast Hera ?

[rain sedge]

no no, crush shot, and what's my boon other than the casst boon

[proud jay]

snow burst

and that's the build

[sly remnant]

snow burst is priority

[honest kernel]

^

[sly remnant]

you can do flood shot for memes

but aphro cast better

[proud jay]

flood shot is potentially very good

[honest kernel]

Blizzard Shot Hera actually sounds dope

[sly remnant]

i don't think you can get blizzard shot on hera

[honest kernel]

?

[proud jay]

why couldn't you

[sly remnant]

i might be wrong

[proud jay]

CoD probably not

[daring hedge]

curse of drowning hera

[sly remnant]

its been awhile since i played hera

[proud jay]

blizzard shot works like a normal cast pretty much

[true fable]

i dont think you can get cod on hera can you

[sly remnant]

fun fact: curse of drowning can backstab with parting shot

[true fable]

you can get blizz shot though

[honest kernel]

The thing about Blizzard Shot, is the slow projectile speed

Hera says "Screw that I'm yeeting the cast at the speed of light"

[true fable]

curse of drowning hera is a funny concept

you shoot and the cast stone just uh

ends up in zag?

[sly remnant]

i remember trying flood shot hrea and never getting blizzard shot

but maybe i need to return to it

[true fable]

hunting blades hera is still one of my fav meme builds

[sly remnant]

achilles hunting blades is way more fun tho

[proud jay]

blizzard shot wasn't worth picking up in speedruns

[dire steppe]

cant ignore the +150% dmg lol

[true fable]

i think nyaanyaa really like blizz shot

[rain sedge]

so crush shot is for the aoe right

[proud jay]

and damage

and it's just comfy

[honest kernel]

Blizzard shot insane for bosses, bad for rooms

That's how it felt to me

[true fable]

snow burst is your Aoe for smaller enemies

[honest kernel]

Compared to the base Flood Shot

[rain sedge]

ah I see I have to angle it right

[sly remnant]

flood shot would be a lot better if asphodel didn't exist

[true fable]

^

[proud jay]

yeah asphodel was a problem in flood shot hera speedruns

[true fable]

wait come back mr bloodstone

[proud jay]

but you just hope for free chambers LUL

[honest kernel]

I value the Stygian Shards well item highly just because of Asphodel lol

[rain sedge]

aite I got both my snow burst and crush shot, sadly both are common

[honest kernel]

Makes lava a real threat

[proud jay]

yeah stygian shard is pretty nice in asphodel no joke

[formal gust]

just beat asterius on 46 hestia, doubt I will go all the way this time though

[true fable]

GL

[honest kernel]

You can do it

[formal gust]

not recorded anyway

[sly remnant]

eh

recording isn't everything

[honest kernel]

^

[sly remnant]

just beat the game we trust you

go cin!

good player!

[rain sedge]

wait what the cast can still get stuck to enemies?

[honest kernel]

It can

But Hera has quick reload by default

And you still are bow : Building on attack is still a decent plan

[true fable]

or spec if you get charged volley

[honest kernel]

^

[rancid spindle]

What heat is classified as "high" again

Was it anything above 32?

[sly remnant]

any heat you are struggling with

[honest kernel]

^

[true fable]

idk i mostly hope for triple + a decent attack boon just in case cast stonks dont take off

or a boon + hammer for attack or spec i guess

[rancid spindle]

That's fair enough, cheers lads

[true fable]

take care mdude

[rain sedge]

what a non toxic answer

pog tyler

[sly remnant]

i may be opinionated as hell

and make sure everyone knows my opinion

but i started with playing on 1.0

i remember very vividly what it was like to struggle

[rain sedge]

yo whats up with the autoaim at meg

I can't seem to hit her

like

[honest kernel]

I still recall struggling to the Heroes, back in the Welcome to Hell update, when starting out

[rain sedge]

it seem to go somewhere else always

[formal gust]

died to satyr miniboss

[sly remnant]

bablo tooth OP

[gaunt fiber]

Today I died poisoned, at the foot of a fountain

[sly remnant]

the bablo tooth is very underrated

especially for weapons that are really good at bosses

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah I don't regret taking acorn

anyway

[rain sedge]

ok, sometimes the cast doesnt do damage with hera

what's up with that

[sly remnant]

lol its been that way forever

[gaunt fiber]

because you're on switch

[sly remnant]

oh lmao

yea

its bugged as hell on switch

[rain sedge]

w h a t .

oh great

[sly remnant]

you need to play flood shot hera

[rain sedge]

more disadvantage for switch players

that's cool

[honest kernel]

Skull Earing gang

[rain sedge]

wait

is hera bugged, or crush shot bugged

because I have the same problem with beowulf

[sly remnant]

but mr baj i get hit a lot

[honest kernel]

Crush Shot with Hera

[rain sedge]

with the hammer that shoots out your charge

[honest kernel]

It's been patched out recently

[sly remnant]

crush flare has weird performance in 1.0

you should probably avoid it

unfortunately 😦

[rain sedge]

cool stuff

and ravenous will works really well with hera yes

[sly remnant]

yessir

hell it works on beowulf

if you watch my 50 ravenous will did work getting me out of tartarus

should i f10 ice wine on beowulf

i'd really like if it worked

[rain sedge]

guess who just got TD3-ed at meg

after all he said about TD3

[sly remnant]

yea i wish TD3 was worth more heat

[rain sedge]

instant karma

alright I'm out for the day, the switch bugs are getting to me

love yall

[formal gust]

died to em3 this time, would have run out of time

next run chamber 3 death lol

[toxic token]

[formal gust]

I understand now when people say hestia is fun but boring to grind

[toxic token]

Yeah...

[true fable]

mess with the bestia and die with the restia

[mossy zinc]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/787460122481393674/Hades_1239.png?width=780&height=439 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/787460139220336680/Hades_1240.png?width=780&height=439

Tempest Strike gud.

[shy plinth]

Ooh

[rain sedge]

RI4 LC4 tempest strike spin GY 32 heat

[mossy zinc]

No recording. I only streamed after Elysium. So you can watch that, though, if you want.

[rain sedge]

@gaunt fiber you got tailesque'ed by nya

[gaunt fiber]

You don't know how happy it makes me feel

[formal gust]

46 shackle hestia is interesting

[mossy zinc]

Submitted to our new Victory Screen Only tab.

[formal gust]

oh put my 45 beo on there

[rain sedge]

we have a new tab??

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

[rain sedge]

I can put 50 eris there

[formal gust]

my amazing

em3 ap1 cf2 beo

45 heat

[mossy zinc]

You can do that. Submission form is linked in the spreadsheet.

[true fable]

you did get tailesqued astaos lol

barrel rolled

[shy plinth]

Yep! New functionality - YouTube links are no longer required, you can paste an image or album for your victory screen, and if you only submit a victory screen it'll populate to a new tab (though none of the indexes)

[mossy zinc]

Second try, too.

[shy plinth]

If we get a ton of submitted runs without recordings, Nyaa and Tail will let me know if they want to make indexes or separate out the categories, but as of right now the tab is a catch-all

[rain sedge]

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/do-a-barrel-roll

had to google that

[shy plinth]

Can be a nice opportunity if people have victory screens and recordings to submit both for a quick reference on the image

[true fable]

good job schad

[formal gust]

this is my first time ever using the shackle

[gaunt fiber]

I inspired someone to do something I was doing. Tables have turned

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, since people upload their victory screens here, anyway, it could be nice to link them.

[formal gust]

this is way harder than beo for me

I'm a lot less comfortable with hestia

[mossy zinc]

Well, I told you to do it mirrorless after you did it with the mirror at 32 lol.

Oh look.

[gaunt fiber]

You did not actually

[mossy zinc]

@gaunt fiber trying to do a barrel roll with Poseidon boons. https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/015/157/633627321328648778-barrelrollyouredoingitwrong.jpg

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah

I don't get the two hammers and epic deadly flourish

[mossy zinc]

I barely even used the Special at all lol.

Just in Erebus when I didn't have Deadly Flourish yet and later for Flamewheels.

[gaunt fiber]

ik

I trust you

[sly remnant]

grats on the mirorless + tempest strike clears nyaanyaa!

[gaunt fiber]

nice edit boyo

[formal gust]

[mossy zinc]

Thanks!

[formal gust]

yeah it was pretty cool I guess but now do it with arthur

[mossy zinc]

I think LC4 is a better idea than HL4 on Guan Yu.

[proud jay]

^

[gaunt fiber]

^

[formal gust]

chiron is deec for higher heats right

[honest kernel]

The higher you go, the more you regret not picking Rama

[formal gust]

I know but like

rama all the time is pretty boring

[sly remnant]

chiron def has a 36-40 heat sweet spot

[honest kernel]

^

[proud jay]

chiron is still strong with good hammers

[formal gust]

already did 40 heat rama

probably gonna go for chiron 45 after I get the hestia one done

[sly remnant]

chiron is a lot harder at that heat

[honest kernel]

^ I can attest to that

[formal gust]

hmm

[honest kernel]

3-4 failed attempts later, I just switched to Rama and instantly did better

[formal gust]

fair

[honest kernel]

First attempt I goofed against Hades, second attempt was an easy clear

[true fable]

feels like JS is a very anti chiron pact

also died to speeder bruiser wavemakers in asphodel on enm

nem

very sad

[sly remnant]

it doesn't even like DC that much

since if you don't get hammers

you'll need your attack to supplement damage

[honest kernel]

It can tolerate it, but it doesn't like it

[sly remnant]

i feel like thats chiron's relationship with the pact in general

this is...okay for me to take

but enough "okay to take" becomes "eff this" really fast

very rarely do i go, "yea chiron has no issues with this"

[daring hedge]

extremely weird run lol https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/787467939145056326/20201212175530_1.jpg

[honest kernel]

Point-Blank Perfect Shot ... Curse of Agony

Perfect

[sly remnant]

man

what a god

[honest kernel]

And he actually went Arty cast

wot

[shy plinth]

Mirage shot??

This is goofy

[daring hedge]

AP2

[honest kernel]

... right

Didn't catch that lol

[shy plinth]

Hitting a duo on AP2 is kind of insane

[daring hedge]

for sure, it came late elysium from the midboss unfortunately

but it helped arty cast be... not quite as terrible

[sly remnant]

AP2 TD2 everywhere

and this channel tried to tell me it wasn't meta

[true fable]

sir what

curse of agony

[daring hedge]

that was mostly to just fill out heat towards 50 while knowing i could end up with a garbage hera build that would basically never do TD3

[true fable]

curse of agony hera oh my days

[daring hedge]

wow i didn't even really think about it until you mention it like that but like

ares really did just dip after that

[shy plinth]

It's a shame, this build really could have used an urge to kill

[true fable]

urge to kill, ares' aid

[mossy zinc]

When I saw 50, I almost expected you did Guan Yu Tempest Strike at 50 now just to barrel-roll me.

Congratulations!

[true fable]

could have used a few more boons to get full build

[sly remnant]

congrats for sure

[daring hedge]

thank you

i got inspired by the hera talk earlier