EUpper lets you delete bosses, BCross lets you delete mobs
#h1-high-heat-strategies
loud coral
true fable
theres so many wack special hammers
i might take draining cutter over eupper now though
at least for dem fists
hollow lynx
KLauncher lets you have fun
true fable
def not for talos
mossy zinc
Flying Cutter also lets you just fly to the surface if you charge long enough.
true fable
skip entire regions with flying cutter
ripe crane
Flying cutter is pretty good but I dislike the charge factor. Would rather have the higher uncharged damage of launcher. I have no patience for charging.
mossy zinc
(Actual feedback that I wrote in Early Access that got mad upvotes.)
loud coral
Flying Cutter just feels weird to use imo
mossy zinc
It's really nice.
loud coral
Something about it makes me just want Rush Kick over it, I don't know why
true fable
i do not like the charge factor either
mossy zinc
Used to charge way too slow, but the damage is great and it's really nice to weave in now.
ripe crane
Oh... You're kbm.... 😒
honest kernel
Always have been
lusty mirage
what kind of bind changes do you use Baj
lusty mirage
i'm thinking about rebinding dash to one of the mouse buttons so it is same hand as atk
for easier dash-strike
lusty mirage
might be completely stock
honest kernel
Dash at Cursor is on by default if I recall
Turned that off real fast lmao
Or at 'least, I don't recall liking it much
lusty mirage
what aspects do you prefer?
honest kernel
Oh boi this one's on many layers
Zeus aspect of shield I liked a lot, thus I pushed it to this ridiculous level of heat
lusty mirage
or maybe more specifically what aspects do you think are better on kbm maybe
honest kernel
But I also like Achilles spear, Hestia Rail, Zag bow
or that's pretty much any bow lol
Poseidon sword is also nice, and I like Nemesis too
As far as better on kbm
hmmm
Maybe shield as a whole is a bit more versatile on KBM
Since you can aim and have your movement be a bit more versatile thanks to Bull Rush
Outside of that, it's mostly Controller, since the auto-aim with that is actually kinda huge
And the mobility is important
I just play KBM for preference at this point
lusty mirage
thanks - i'm guessing you don't have issues with dash-striking perfectly
for me it's difficult to be consistent when its on a different hand
honest kernel
For me it's the reverse
Different Strokes I guess
It does make using Dash-Uppers on fists a bit more difficult lol
For my setup that is
honest kernel
I was about to mention, when a urn gets too close to you and you accidentally pop it
gaunt fiber
Yeah...
cedar thistle
don't think dash to cursor is on by default.
and also. wow. how do you even play with that default controls.
Like... Q on special is 🤢
how do you even do a special-dash to the top left
or do you just avoid doing it
honest kernel
I live by jank controls
legit
My Smash Ultimate GC setup is mega-cursed
From back when I played it
Honestly, the Q on special does well, and it IS awkward for Dash Uppers, but not impossible
spring kettle
I remapped special to right click, that’s way more convenient
honest kernel
Honestly ? Same thing to me
cedar thistle
super useful for any slow special like gilga or arthur/(and kinda useful on other swords too but not as impactful as arthur)
honest kernel
But if I started the game fresh, I'd probably switch the special and the cast lol
I do that with sword here and there
But I usually just do dash-attacks lol
cedar thistle
Like you can't easily do dash->dash-upper->dash. maybe with your little finger or something 🤔
moving to the top left that is
honest kernel
It's actually not that hard. My middle finger rests on both W and S. The fingers next to it do the other buttons
'Lil finger rests on the shift button
cedar thistle
welp you're amazing.
lusty mirage
you on kbm too glass?
cedar thistle
i switch around depending on what i'm playing. Mostly kbm.
lusty mirage
dash bound to space?
honest kernel
Cast on Mouse Wheel button actually sounds dope
Could have special on Right click then
Might mess around with that
lusty mirage
that's where i put reload
honest kernel
Reload's been on R since the gungeon days for me lol
cedar thistle
use mousewheel up then 😛
there's only 4 actions, they can all fit on left/right/up/down of the mouse
assuming you leave dash/call/summon on kb
lusty mirage
i'm tinkering with dash on rmb but muscle memory messes me up
honest kernel
^ That's the scary part about changing anything in a control scheme
lusty mirage
it immediately improved my dash-strike consistency though so it may be a good thing to relearn
for me anyway
cedar thistle
o. hmm. i just spend like 5-15mins hitting the dummy till i got the muscle memory down
lol
it's really only for sword
honest kernel
That's legit good practise
cedar thistle
it's easy on other weapons
lusty mirage
yeah achilles didn't teach me anything really, skelly and hypnos know what's up :p
rancid stirrup
almost first tried my heat 40 but then went too ham on EM4 dad 
triple shot point blank shot rama deals good damage but did funny things to my brain
cedar thistle
dad is hard. i almost lost a 3dd 400hp at non-em4 ytd.
honest kernel
55 heat clear on Zeus shield video is up in #self-promotion
Still mad about the no audio thing
rancid stirrup
...also had a funny bug where theseus is stuck in the wall
should i report this or should i just
....not
cedar thistle
i had theseus stuck to nothing before so...
arthur-slowed him to 0 velocity or something https://streamable.com/rgkq20 stuck there till he phased, couldn't attack
rancid stirrup
lmao
lusty mirage
got him stuck on a column in 1.0
north dove
pretty sure it's 56 by Tailesque
ripe crane
Tail has one heat higher than what's on the sheet
Died to end of second phase EM3 dad for 53 Hestia :(
One dash too hard
ripe crane
I didn't take off shackle the entire time. This is literally boonless except I had a poseidon call lol
honest kernel
Welcome to my pain in my 55 heat with the shackle strats lol
and why I finally decided to take EM4 off
ripe crane
I'll get.... something tomorrow. Bad day of work today, no work again till Monday so hopefully I'll actually get some sleep eventually
honest kernel
Take care for now
ripe crane
Yeah shackle is legit
I have had one attack boon in all my attempts.
I was trying 55 but with JS and CP it was too much. Too much time loss with AP2 and RI9. So I will settle for 53 heat
Took off the JS. Maybe I should take off the CP for a shorter dad fight
honest kernel
Yeah with Hestia you'd need special hammers or room clears are gonna be annoying
ripe crane
Piercing shot was enough to get me to dad at 4:30
with 4:30 left I should say
Also, I do not think I like hyper sprint. I can't tell. It's probably really good if you know how to use it, and I was kind of getting the hang of it but it's such a huge change
misty hamlet
fallow stream
Dash Nova all the way
Cursed slash only good for specific builds
Imo
Flurry + cursed slash is awesome though
Facetank everything
honest kernel
I know thy pain
honest kernel
Either you get full build
Or you swing around a toothpick
Unless Arthur's involved
honest kernel
Maybe
true fable
LOL
honest kernel
More like certainly lmao
true fable
this is just the pain containment channel
so the new players still think the game is fun
god sword vs EM3 is miserable
ripe crane
true fable
i got cucked out of mirage shot like 4 times that run
i have a bone to pick with AP
as do we all i suppose
true fable
maybe i should just go boonless arthur on test branch
long axle
Megaera is the way
long axle
arthur backstab is pretty good ngl
ripe crane
I click the GIF button and type "Arthur"
true fable
rama was so much easier
guys i think rama might be a better weapon than poseidon sword
ripe crane
Which one has a bigger number in the description
true fable
i think rama says 60 in the tooltip
pack it up we solved it with math
rama is better than poseidon you heard it here first
frail prism
Any strats / recommendations for 63 heat?
ember cobalt
Pray for mercy
frail prism
A friend of mine dared me to get through Tartarus
Just trying to get through it I'll call it there lmao
I can get like, 5 chambers in but I'm already 3 minutes in
true fable
tartarus is usually one of the hardest parts of these runs
frail prism
Do shop rooms count towards the chamber count to the main boss?
twilit orbit
spring kettle
Would chaos be good?
Free room, but the downside may be too bad at such a high heat
frail prism
Just pray that the one option stops you from getting gold for a bit lol
edgy arrow
even if the curse is fine, losing the health is rough on its own
you’ve only got 50hp to start with RI4 and you’re not getting any back with LC4
get ready to be one shot by basically anything
spring kettle
And chaos egg doesn’t guarantee a spawn, nor would chaos gates necessarily be desirable due to the curse you have to take
edgy arrow
oh missed you saying chaos egg, yeah that would alleviate the damage ofc
but yeah
honestly with AP2 running and the goal being “get out of tartarus” i feel like shackle is gonna be hard to beat for keepsake
ideally paired with a seed for a perfect starting hammer
spring kettle
Yeah, I didn’t say egg at first, just thought of a way it could possibly be alleviated
edgy arrow
fair
dire steppe
Finally i can take a break from hades
hunting blades is insane with athena call, its basically smoldering air but not capped
and i finally beat 32
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
dire steppe
now 32x6 i guess
mossy zinc
Or 40+. 
cedar thistle
😰
dire steppe
not going to try hunting blades on 40 
mossy zinc
Why not? Should work.
dire steppe
doesn't achilles usually build with like zeus or athena cast anyway? how do you dc2
cedar thistle
o. you did 32 with HL and LC maxed. wut
dire steppe
what would you turn on instead?
i thought this was the "easiest" 32 heat setup
because no FO AP RI
For a run to count as boonless, you have to take privileged status right
and is dark foresight good? or do you just get screwed over by having to take too many boons
cedar thistle
i'd take FO. idk. maybe no FO no healing is easier for you. to each their own i guess.
boonless run will probably just go RI?
dire steppe
playing with lc4 off is so weird
edgy arrow
LC4 is fine yeah
HL5 is easier than FO2 for sure
also congrats on your first 32!
you wanna go either zeus or doom on special, and stack it, basically
cedar thistle
if you get nice special hammers deadly flourish is nice too
but zeus/doom is easier to pull off, not hammer reliant
edgy arrow
it can work, pretty sure my first 32 was deadly flourish chaos
but other stuff is generally better yeah
zeus is the standard meta choice for chaos really
cedar thistle
divine dash is opop as always
edgy arrow
^
cedar thistle
other dashes are fine too tbh. but if you want the easiest time, it's athena
edgy arrow
for attack you ideally either want arty (for support fire) or aphro (and a good call for smouldering air)
doom on attack is also solid tho
np
cedar thistle
i like distant memories.
not really meta or anything, but it's just a prefernce thing
boosting zeus stuff
gaunt fiber
May Bouldy hear your prayers
sweet briar
recently started trying 50 heat with chiron bow in hell mode after beating 45. does anyone know if there is any kind of plan of changing hell mode or letting you get out of it because honestly, it is kind of ridiculous running JS1 and CP1 on top of Personal Liability with TD3?
cinder cave
I just have a hell mode save in addition to my first one
don't think they want to make Hell Mode toggleable
but you can ask
mossy zinc
They have never hinted at any plan like that.
rain sedge
Don't people usually want hell mode so they can turn on personal liability?
sweet briar
thanks for the info. I am not sure where or who should I ask for something like this tbh. Personal Liability is just 1heat and it can easily ruin your run at such high heat in certain fights so I don't know why someone would want that active.
rain sedge
I'm doing 50, I'd take PL instead of HS any day. But that's just my preference
You can get a save file for normal mode with everything unlocked at speedrun.com/hades?
yep just died to another spike trap
sweet briar
I have HS enabled as well... I guess if I continue failing and getting miserable I might try the getting another save file solution even though it doesn't feel the same if it's not yours.
rain sedge
totally understandable and agreed
sweet briar
it pains me to say but picking hell mode might be the worst decision I made since I started playing hades
but anyway, enough whining from me and thanks again for the info
rain sedge
play on switch instead, it'll then be your second worst decision
NP, there are much better people here that can help you if you struggle at 50
(not me)
sweet briar
haha I see. I might end up trying another aspect/weapon instead of chiron. The problem is that I love chiron.
rain sedge
I only did 40 with it, but I find the aspect hard to play at high heat
because it's so single damage focused
but I felt that with my end build, I could take EM4 easily, so maybe I could've done 44
sweet briar
yeah the single target is painful and thats why JS and CP are awful with it
em4 isnt that bad once you get a good run and learn the fight
started using it since 40 even if it wasnt necessary because I knew I would have to learn the fight at some point for higher heat
mossy zinc
Personal Liability is just 1heat and it can easily ruin your run at such high heat in certain fights so I don't know why someone would want that active.
Because it's 1 Heat lol.
mossy zinc
because it's so single damage focused
Drunken Flourish helps with clearing crowds faster.
sweet briar
it seems to me that 1 heat isnt worth getting one-shot by enemies that throw multiple projectiles especially when we are talking about FO2 but maybe it's just my preference
I can't think of playing chiron without artemis special
it's just too much damage
gaunt fiber
Just so you know
mossy zinc
Don't underestimate Drunken Flourish for clearing JS. #h1-high-heat-strategies message
gaunt fiber
Letting 3 soul catchers live vs dad is not a good idea
gaunt fiber
If
sweet briar
Don't underestimate Drunken Flourish for clearing JS. https://discord.com/channe...
do those numbers come from having their duo or just those 2 boons?
mossy zinc
Just those boons.
Low Tolerance build is the best we've found so far for dealing with TD3 JS3 at high heat.
sweet briar
I should check on the artemis special damage with aphro attack and compare them. I might give it a try while making some changes on the pact of punishment
mossy zinc
It also relies less on Special hammers.
I like to just start with the Eternal Rose, anyway, and take it from there. Heartbreak Strike is usually the first thing you want for both those builds, anyway.
And if you see an Epic Heartbreak Flourish, you can grab that instead.
sweet briar
Have you made it work on 50heat? I am asking because with chiron artemis special I cleared 45 easily one day after I cleared 40 in less than 10 tries but going from 45 to 50 is a whole different story.
mossy zinc
@bronze viper was working on something around that Heat with it.
I did 43 WR with Chiron on like day 1 or 2 in 1.0, I think, which was broken by 4 people or something the same night before I woke up again lol. Haven't pushed Heat with it since. I did mirrorless at 32 with it, though.
sweet briar
haha I see. Mirrorless sounds a little miserable so congrats on doing that!
mossy zinc
Thanks! It's a lot of fun for me lol.
sweet briar
Well it doesn't sound as bad as AP but still wouldn't do that myself lol.
sweet briar
I think I see a pattern there 😛
It's so irritating to me getting offered the one thing you need to make your build work on 40+ heat and then the game crosses that boon out. Especially if you are in like elysium or something.
bronze viper
<@!143840804899782656> was working on something around that Heat with it.
Chiron 50? Yeah, I plan to pick up the project again in a couple of months when my eyes are gucci.
sweet briar
Chiron 50? Yeah, I plan to pick up the project again in a couple of months when ...
I have been trying that the last couple of days and it's so hard especially because I can't get rid of JS and CP because I am stuck with hell mode...
mossy zinc
It's so irritating to me getting offered the one thing you need to make your build work on 40+ heat and then the game crosses that boon out.
Another reason to start with the Eternal Rose and take it from there. Gives you plenty of good routes.
bronze viper
The main tradeoff at that heat is TD3 with CP2 EM4 vs. JS3. Crit vs. Hangover
honest kernel
Chiron vs CP2 EM4 sounds yikes
bronze viper
It's fine with crit tbh
Hangover has issues even damaging Dad through heal phases though
honest kernel
What the heck is the rest of the pact then lol
mossy zinc
Hangover Chiron if you pick up Bad Influence is amazing.
bronze viper
I've gotten to phase 3 fairly consistently with Crit and died to being absolutely terrible at that fight.
sweet briar
Hangover has issues even damaging Dad through heal phases though
That's why I am not sure if the hangover stuff works on 50heat
bronze viper
I can show a heat spread for 49 at least. Sec.
rain sedge
this is why my chiron stops at 40 btw
I maybe can do 45, by adding EM4 and HS but
I did 40 by having the absolute best hammer combo
having to try to get that hammer so I can beat Em4 sounds unfun
I'd stay with the 50 eris, then done
bronze viper
AP1
RI2
No EM4
No CP
That's 51.
honest kernel
Math adds up assuming PL
Which I REALLY should enable for my runs lol
My 55 heat is without it lmao
bronze viper
Yeah, it's why I'm trying 50 on my main save. I don't have Max hell mode lol
sweet briar
AP1
RI2
No EM4
No CP
That's 51.
Is that for a clear using chiron crit?
bronze viper
Hangover
honest kernel
No CP means Hanghover gets away with it
rain sedge
nah, the JS is too much, honestly
it also reduces your survivability by a lot at this heat
like... +1 seeking attack witch at tartarus is a LOT for chiron
sweet briar
At the moment I am trying JS1 CP1 TD3 in hell mode and it is miserable. But again it's been only a couple of days
bronze viper
It's a lot for everyone.
rain sedge
yep, just checked, my 40 chiron is JS0 CP2
bronze viper
Chiron volleys destroy projectiles at least
rain sedge
cold comfort for most of these mobs
bronze viper
You take what you can get at that heat lol.
sweet briar
Tbh I am thinking of adding RI2 instead of 1 and AP1 and take out TD3 and HS but I am getting frustrated because of AP.
bronze viper
Never take RI1
That past us a travesty at 2 heat
RI2 is acceptable at 4 though lol
honest kernel
^
bronze viper
It's a good thing tbh lol. Self handicaps take skill :3
rain sedge
yep, screws underworld customes a lot
honest kernel
which is a LOT of value
rain sedge
I'll think about shuffling my heat around
sir we're talking about a person that consistently die to traps here
that 50 HP is my lava barrier
bronze viper
I'm not saying RI2 is an easy option lol, it's just acceptable at 4 heat.
sweet briar
I'm not saying RI2 is an easy option lol, it's just acceptable at 4 heat.
nothing is easy at 50...
bronze viper
Truth
sweet briar
But I can deal with hard reasonable stuff. The thing I can't deal with is that AP pact. It's so unfun for me.
ripe crane
Ledgerdamayn is alive 🙌
sweet briar
It forces you to reset again and again for all the wrong reasons.
bronze viper
I'm squinting out of one eye at my phone lol.
But I saw i was tagged so I made an effort to participate.
ripe crane
Eye still not healed huh? That must've been some surgery
bronze viper
Nah it's healed I just have vastly different vision in both eyes until the next one in a couple of weeks.
honest kernel
I could see that being somewhat trippy lol
bronze viper
Makes screens iffy without reading glasses, but those aren't perfect, and I can't get real glasses until a month after the next surgery
I'm still playing games just nothing super focus intensive. Living the nostalgia life with OS Runescape Trailblazer league lol.
rain sedge
is this LASIK ledger?
bronze viper
Nope, non-laser cataract removal surgery, at the ripe old age of 30
bronze viper
Lol I know right? The sheer wtf on my optometrist's face would have been funnier if it wasn't immediately concerning
rain sedge
hmm hmm I just died to meg too
I feel not so bad though. The upcoming UC is either lightning strike or divine dash
because I had rare crop
I might have died because I took a chaos boon that damages me on special but hey
mossy zinc
The real deal is taking Chaos Gates with LC4 RI4.
rain sedge
I'll update you when I die to furies because I got too close
mossy zinc
Lol
tidal flame
we don't know where we are going, to the surface or back to the house. but we are going there fast
rain sedge
NOOOO THANATOS
I suicided to trap expecting it to be the last wave
and then armored beams come out
oh no bby what is you doing
mossy zinc
Just run and let him one-shot them lol.
mossy zinc
He always says that one's off the record if you win anyway.
rain sedge
the armored beam killed me 😦
spring kettle
What if you kill every enemy in a Thanatos competition?
rain sedge
I couldn't dodge fast enough
oh there's a post-victory title acknowledging that
Robbed Thanatos or something
gaunt fiber
I got it three times, at least. 
rain sedge
am I really bad or RI2 is much harder than RI1?
ripe crane
RI1 is the hard part. RI2 is just less health.
rain sedge
so I'm bad, gotcha
ripe crane
Which is unpleasant and harder to make up since you have RI1 on
ripe crane
Nope. RI is the worst
mossy zinc
RI1 is really bad, RI2 is even worse, RI3 even worst, RI4 is entirely free. 
rain sedge
hmm .
ok let's see if I can get past meg
I haven't entered asphodel yet today btw
yesterday it was consistently elysium
yea died again
rain sedge
I've gotten worse at this game
rain sedge
nah today I just play bad, all my fault
gaunt fiber
Yeah that's what I meant
ripe crane
high kettle
yes
gaunt fiber
oof
high kettle
i feel even more noob
dire steppe
@bronze viper one eye gang
both of my eyes “work” but my brain can’t process both of the inputs and synthesize them unless i focus really hard
so basically i use only my right eye
it’s weird because my left eye is like 20/40 or something and my right is like 20/15 so it’s hard to process blurry and clear
it also feels like they have different default focal lengths sometimes too
rocky elk
Is it bad that i switched to hell mode after 4 runs
gaunt fiber
nah keep going
dire steppe
hell mode more like free 1 heat
gaunt fiber
it's tougher of course, but I think it is worth it
gaunt fiber
but if you don't play for challenge, no point
mossy zinc
JS1 CP1 PL is not free at high heat.
If you think Seeker Witches are bad, imagine them when you don't have that invulnerability.
sweet briar
Is it bad that i switched to hell mode after 4 runs
I would strongly advise you to play normal mode if you are aiming for very high heat. If you aren't then hell mode is fine.
gritty sorrel
HM is manageable and rewarding for low-moderate heat levels, but i'm sure it sucks for higher
sweet briar
It most certainly does. Even the extra heat isn't free and it's not worth it especially with some weapons/aspects because of the limitations it adds to choosing your own combinations of conditions in the pact of punishment.
gritty sorrel
(you know HM might be a little more flexible if it was "you have to set the heat to at least 4 + PL (or 5 or whatever), but you get flexibility in which pact measures you can choose")
sweet briar
I wish some tweaks would be made to HM. Don't get me wrong I love this game (that's why I've reached the point to pushing 50heat) but HM doesn't feel quite right.
rocky elk
Depends
Like wish i could turn it off and on
Or maybe copy save files
So i could have a hellmode and norm heat one
sweet briar
Like wish i could turn it off and on
Yeah but you can't turn it off. IMO it would cancel its purpose if you could turn it off but atm I would prefer even that.
rocky elk
I have ninety hours on hades on one file and i dont want to lose all my progress
gritty sorrel
i have non-HM on my switch, and HM on PC
sweet briar
Or maybe copy save files
I believe you can play someone else's save file but it doesn't feel right to me to be playing someone else's file.
rocky elk
I get it i could possibly win in a run or two but still i would have to unlock everything all over again
And spend just as much time
sweet briar
i have non-HM on my switch, and HM on PC
I thought about starting all over in normal but I spend much time on trying to beat 50heat as it is, I don't think I can unlock everything all over.
mossy zinc
Just play whichever mode you like tbh. JS1 CP1 being harder for certain aspects doesn't mean it's less fun.
I actually like playing with PL more.
But it's a slow grind to unlock everything again in a second save. So I just play it when I happen to feel like it.
sweet briar
Just play whichever mode you like tbh. JS1 CP1 being harder for certain aspects ...
The game is great and extremely fun either way but imo it doesn't feel that the HM restrictions are worth it. Nothing more, nothing less.
mossy zinc
And Hell mode is naturally slower because you have JS1 and CP1.
If you want to just max everything quickly, you're never taking JS CP or DC for your bounties and stuff.
gritty sorrel
well, i'm glad i stuck with it rather than replaying normal for my first playthrough
mossy zinc
It's kinda in a weird place. I like PL and being forced into JS1 CP1, actually, but at the same time it's just such a long grind lol.
high kettle
are the heat 50+ runs here done in normal or hell mode?
mossy zinc
Although if you just max one aspect and do 50+ with RI3, it doesn't really matter.
Except for stuff like having summons vs Hades.
Most 50+ and high heat in general are done in normal mode.
But there are some in hell mode.
sweet briar
are the heat 50+ runs here done in normal or hell mode?
Speedrun doesn't accept runs in hell mode for some weird reason but that doesn't mean something to most of the people challenging themselves by doing high heat runs.
sweet briar
On the other hand (judging from my situation as well), it would be nice for everyone to be able to submit runs on categories like 50heat even if they are on HM.
mossy zinc
Something about making it fair for people who don't play on Hell mode.
But it's like.
JS1 CP1 make it harder to be fast lol.
I don't get it. I think that rule makes no sense at all.
sweet briar
Yeah I've tried to find some reason in that decisions but I can't. I must be missing something.
spring kettle
Only real difference is PL, and that’s not that big of a difference
rocky elk
They will take more damge on hell mode have not auto things ( and that is better than base damage)
Like why are speed run rules so bad sometimes
mossy zinc
I don't care too much about the speedrun leaderboards anyway, though. I submitted my 18+ min 32 Heat mirrorless runs for no real reason lol.
17+.
They're all in last place.
But they're the only ones that are mirrorless.
gritty sorrel
Nyx is goading me into thinking about mirrorless runs
sweet briar
Well I am playing chiron, obviously I don't care much about being first in a speedrun category 
. But being able to submit a 50heat run would be great.
rain sedge
Imagine running a mirrorless run
In 5 weapons, even
At 32 heat
Who would be so psychotic
spring kettle
Mirrorless boonless run
mossy zinc
I've been working on mirrorless boonless 32. Although I did get pretty far at 40 that one time, too.
I got to Hades phase 2 part 2 in my last attempt at 32.
rain sedge
Did you get the shield ri4 nya
mossy zinc
I haven't tried in awhile.
But being able to submit a 50heat run would be great.
You can ping Krashercorr to be added to the pinned spreadsheet/leaderboard. Though he's been very MIA for awhile now. He said he still appreciates all the pings, though, and will get to them.
I also made a spreadsheet here where you can just add your own runs. I feel like that's more reasonable than submitting to the other one with no idea when it's ever gonna be verified. 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fYeJpxFXZBO2UycHOz4qt90T3ZurFZKCtg07UQNZVyc/edit?usp=sharing
sweet briar
Thanks that is helpful. First I will have to beat 50 though
Maybe I should start recording too at some point.
honest kernel
Wasn't Krashercorr's spreadsheet for 40+ heat runs anyways
mossy zinc
Yes.
honest kernel
Altho nowadays we kinda blew that standard out of the water lmao
mossy zinc
Mine is "high heat" so I kinda don't care lol.
I mean if people want to put 2 Heat as high heat on it and sit at the bottom of the leaderboard, who am I to tell 'em no.
gritty sorrel
well,, don't mind if i do 😛
true fable
thats quite a lot of avril lavigne in that 40 heat poseidon vod
honest kernel
When the shackles buff hit
Probably shooting for my setup but with CP
Also might play around with a Hellmode Savefile for PL
ripe crane
The one bad thing about having this PL uncoupled with hell mode is that forgetting to turn on JS and CP along with it just invalidates your run
mossy zinc
thats quite a lot of avril lavigne in that 40 heat poseidon vod
Did I hear not enough Avril Lavigne? Okay, next one gonna have more. I'll slow down my run just for you. Gonna take no TD and take my time, so you can hear all the songs.
mossy zinc
I hear you. More Avril Lavigne songs. I'll do it for the fans, don't worry.
high kettle
is it me or all fists hammer except the healing one sucks?
mossy zinc
That's definitely you.
honest kernel
Breaching Cross, Exploding Launcher, Kinetic Launcher, Long Knuckle, just to name a few
Those are great
honest kernel
That one's getting buffed in the test-branch
mossy zinc
Heavy Knuckle is actually good, you just need to know what to do with it, though. Like, you wouldn't want it on Demeter Aspect. But it's good on the rest.
It's really good on Talos.
high kettle
and of course i was using demeter
mossy zinc
Yeah, on Demeter Aspect you want fast Attacks to charge your Gigacutter fast.
high kettle
its just... very humiliating, loosing a 11 heat run...
mossy zinc
That's okay. We've all lost those runs before.
It's not like we got to doing 40+ by just winning everything always.
It took me over 30 runs just to get my first clear. I think that's pretty average.
11 Heat also doesn't equate 11 Heat.
Some pact combos are just harder than others.
high kettle
i had em3, middle management and damage control 1 i think
so not even a tough one
i just lost my DDs on the way up, couldnt get anything to replenish, greeded charon wells in styx and got punished for it
mossy zinc
It sounds like you didn't really know what Heavy Knuckle was gonna do, so I assume you don't have much experience with Malphon yet. Melee can be difficult to learn.
high kettle
i did
others just seemed worst
both changed the special
and i didnt think itd be any good on demeter
mossy zinc
I don't know what the other options were.
high kettle
i cant remeber exactly
mossy zinc
I think the only Special hammer that doesn't really do anything for Demeter Aspect is Quake Cutter.
I actually wanna try it out on Talos, though. Might actually be usable on that.
high kettle
well guess the revenge run will be a special one
time to platinum the game
sorry, loosing low heat runs just always makes me mad cause its so... illogical compared to the heat 32
gaunt fiber
pretty sure I can lose any low heat run you give me right now
Can't even phase Hades
mossy zinc
m also pretty sure you can lose any low-heat run.
high kettle
loosing low hit is more frustrating than loosing high heat
cause its harder to understand why you lost
mossy zinc
I don't think it's that hard to understand.
Usually I just did something stupid and got hit needlessly.
honest kernel
"Confidence is a slow and insidious killer"
mossy zinc
Or walked over magma or something.
gaunt fiber
"Confidence is a slow and insidious killer"
overconfidence buddy
honest kernel
I know what I said
high kettle
i guess so
honest kernel
Altho I should have done the exact quote lol
mossy zinc
Doesn't work. I tried.
You'll still throw good runs for no real reason lol. That just happens sometimes.
honest kernel
"Wait when does FO-0 Dad spi-" Gets smacked by the spear
mossy zinc
That is literally why I died on 32 mirrorless boonless lol.
Like, I died to the timer in the end.
But only because I got hit by the first 5 spins or something because I dashed way too early.
I think the start of the fight was just dashing right into a skull lol.
true fable
overconfidence is a flimsy shield
yeah i dont find myself dying to the hits that often
high kettle
zenyatta
true fable
but the timer forces you to make more mistakes
sly remnant
Can confirm I've thrown more runs on HL5 FO2 HS EM2 lernie than I care to admit
true fable
people who play the same with timer ticking and without have ice in their veins
@sly remnant i threw a 32 run against lernie with mirage and perfect pool yesterday
woulda been a sub 5 exit clean
very sad
sly remnant
Sometimes that lava just really gets ya
true fable
it really do
sly remnant
And when I see blue head I instantly know I'm adding 30 seconds on to a normal fight
true fable
blue head lernie can die
honest kernel
@true fable You know how bad it gets for me when it comes to this kind of stuff ? I frickin' pause in the event rooms lol
true fable
today i'm thankful for everyone except blue head lernie
honest kernel
Auto-pilot's hard to get rid of
true fable
LOOL
sly remnant
Orange head close second tho. You can't dash ANYWHERE
true fable
<@!461369378315960330> You know how bad it gets for me when it comes to this kin...
rta gaming btw
honest kernel
if anything I was a weird mix of both RTA and IGT
Which is just a nice way of saying I didn't care much
true fable
lol
i actually need to start pausing again
im probably dying to timer more than i need to on high heat
mossy zinc
Are the rooms slow or are you?
honest kernel
Nyaa would be proud
gaunt fiber
Are the rooms slow or are you?
I'm getting decent at being quick I would say
high kettle
that artemis hud is nice
gaunt fiber
sure is
high kettle
what ressource does it cost already?
true fable
going quick is hard with JS3 i think
high kettle
i need it
gaunt fiber
100 nectars
high kettle
oh
i got 72
perfect
guess ill get it once i finish maxing all aspects in titan blood
mossy zinc
that artemis hud is nice
Thanks for calling him out.
tidal flame
Lmao
mossy zinc
Nyaa would be proud
Nope. Just very disappointed.
high kettle
what sorry?
mossy zinc
It's not a Lady Aphrodite HUD.
mossy zinc
No, the color is secondary.
It's all about Lady Aphrodite.
@gaunt fiber you can't unlock the true ending like that. You need to use Her theme, too.
high kettle
oh youre an aphrodite fan
im more into artemis
till endgame she has nice dialogues
then the cycling dialogues are a bit weird sometimes
gaunt fiber
<@238040913715265537> you can't unlock the true ending like that. You need to us...
No point yet, can't get to the ending
mossy zinc
Because you don't use her theme.
tidal flame
She has a theme?
loud coral
Still waiting for Chaos theme on switch 
gaunt fiber
112 damage special in Elysium
tidal flame
It is
gaunt fiber
well
good luck fighting EM3 with serrated edge
Fast clear for sure
but boi, having to dash to deal dmg
proud jay
has anyone been playing beowulf at 50+?
honest kernel
Dunko tried it for a bit
honest kernel
has anyone been playing beowulf at 50+?
Dunko0 got to the heroes fight so far with Beowulf at 50 heat, and according to Krasher's spreadsheet from the early access, @mossy zinc Did a 52 heat Beowulf clear
Outside of Nyaa, You and Dunko0, I don't know who else is specifically trying Beowulf
true fable
didn't retrash get 51 with beo?
honest kernel
Was it Beo or was it Gilga
proud jay
i just got to phase 3 dad with beo at 50
true fable
beo
proud jay
first EM4 fight in ages tho so i screwed it up
true fable
RIP
proud jay
also first 50 heat attempt in like 3 weeks
true fable
yeah i think i remember him posting a victory screen with some charged dread flight nonsense
- heroic divine flourish
honest kernel
Retrash did do it like a few days ago with Beo, you are right
proud jay
Was it Beo or was it Gilga
i remember seeing gilga 51 or 52
honest kernel
I'll DM it to you
proud jay
thanks
honest kernel
As far as Charged Flight goes
rain sedge
retrash destroying meta
honest kernel
For High Heat it's decent enough damage
ripe crane
Just search for Retrash in the self-promotion channel to see 50/51 of like every aspect
honest kernel
'tis what I did
true fable
its weird because cast beo kind of flew through regular encounters up to 45 for me
honest kernel
I saw Dunko0 try it out. It's hard because if you run any ammount of AP/RI casts builds are a LOT harder to get online
honest kernel
And beo kinda relies on that
honest kernel
I mean Retrash's wasn't even Cast-Based
true fable
yeah i think thats why he could get to 50
proud jay
i had pretty easy time with crush shot & snow burst at 50 heat
proud jay
but i realize snow burst is a lot to ask for
honest kernel
Yeah
true fable
actually it may just be stygian lol
proud jay
could even pull off DC2
honest kernel
He was trying out Dio cast with Stygian Soul
true fable
I didnt think DC1 was that bad for dio cast
rain sedge
getting granma on god pool just to gamble for snow burst
honest kernel
Even if he spent time trying to get an Early Chaos Boon, he'd still have trouble
Was considering Infernal Soul too for a moment
proud jay
@rain sedge i don't do AP2 stuff
honest kernel
Dunko0 was running AP1
rain sedge
even with AP1, granma's boons are mostly bad
honest kernel
And the ammount of time he got screwed up was way too high lol
proud jay
not on beo though
rain sedge
I've been actively avoiding her on 50
proud jay
i know there are dead boons
rain sedge
hmm. maybe on beo it's not like, super bad
honest kernel
Nourished Soul is about the only one, really
rain sedge
well the meme beam is dead for me
proud jay
but snow burst, ravenous will and killing freeze are top tier
honest kernel
Hotest take in a while
true fable
ap1 just mega sucks for stygian
honest kernel
but I think Meme beam is fine
true fable
so maybe its time for me to learn infernal
rain sedge
yea we know you did that 50 to hades with meme beam
true fable
did you even use it though lmao
true fable
or was it just shackle
honest kernel
It was legit
true fable
oh lol
honest kernel
Helped a good deal in rooms
Since I can go chase the smaller enemies, and let the beam take DC charges off/weaken slower, fatter foes
true fable
any glacial glare/snow burst or was it just the cast
honest kernel
Glacial Glare, ofc
Extra Duration was more important then the chill really
But even then, the damage it gets is actually kinda solid
honest kernel
I DID mention it was a hottake
And it's probably better on shield because positioning your foes is a lot easier when you can block at any time
rain sedge
eris pepehands
getting chased around by speedy enemies and can't reposition isnt fun
I see your hot take and I raise you mine:
delta chamber > cluster bomb
honest kernel
Don't tell the speedrunners LOL
rain sedge
just for high heat
allows people like me to turn off brain
my 45 was on delta chamber
rain sedge
case made.
true fable
its about brain real estate
rain sedge
errr what are the boons that can't be sold?
dio that gives nectar can't be sold, right?
honest kernel
Premium Vintage, Nourished Soul
rain sedge
I might have cucked myself on UC here
honest kernel
Can't think of anything else
proud jay
my hot take: delta chamber doesn't increase your dps if you can vidya gamez
rain sedge
yea it's just brainpower tbh
gaunt fiber
Rare crop
honest kernel
Oh yeah that's true
rain sedge
bablo you're a speedrun god, richocet fire basically doubles your dps right? since the extra attack also procs the lightning?
honest kernel
Technically can't sell the Death Defiance boons from Athena and Sunken Treasure doesn't appear in the hotbar
true fable
delta chamber isnt actually good but i only have so much space in my brain
proud jay
only one lightning per ricochet afaik
in general, on-hit effects with ricochet apply only on the second hit
like piercing
proud jay
everytime i come here i want to do something crazy at 50+ heat
but then i see AP2 at the pact and do a 360
honest kernel
lmao
proud jay
55 heat is always going to be AP2
honest kernel
Finding heat otherwise is though at that point yeah
honest kernel
^
proud jay
and in order to do much higher you start mad-dogging AP2
rain sedge
nah, after 50, it's low heat city for me
true fable
if you do a 360 dont you end up back here bablo
rain sedge
maybe 6x 40
proud jay
if you do a 360 dont you end up back here bablo <:thanthink:669246004142538753>
yes i can relate to sisyphus
honest kernel
And here I am thinking about doing 58 heat when the Shackles buff hit LOL
rain sedge
ok this run is super cursed, I got welcomed by alecto
yeaaaaa dethrone tail
gogogo baj
proud jay
6x40?
proud jay
ah i can get on board with that
true fable
a low benchmark in this channel but a benchmark nonetheless
honest kernel
40 heat is fun
honest kernel
It's a nice balance between difficulty and sanity
rain sedge
I'm not sure. I'm ultra bad with shields, and fist is melee so
true fable
poseidon is fine until the moments you have to play sword 😦
rain sedge
I might cheese it with dodge stacking on zag aspect
proud jay
could just slap athena on nemesis
honest kernel
Hey that worked once, apparently lol
And Nemesis, altho a bit more risky, should still be fine for 40 heat
Depends on whether you go for the LC4 strats or no
rain sedge
nah I hate that aspect. I still think it's really bad without the... double dash attack thingy
true fable
yeah maybe just go for DR nem? ive just been forcing athena in aspho with poseidon cast and hoping for natural artemis
proud jay
are we talking about streaking 6x40 btw?
rain sedge
poseidon is my third favourite aspect but at high heat, it struggles
honest kernel
Casts-related builds tend to struggle at high heat
rain sedge
ok I didn't use athena keepsake for ashpodel because I have her on my pool
and I forgot there's HS
true fable
its weird because i did 32 on poseidon and it was fine
rain sedge
and I should just high roll for sure footing or divine dash
I mean 32 is very different
proud jay
you're vulnerable while casting
true fable
i think i'm just gonna copy nyaanyaa's JS0 pact setup lol
TBH i felt like deadline got me most of the time
either deadline or being forced to take risks because of deadline
rain sedge
the deadline is workable with luck in my opinion
I've resorted to taking chaos gates/story rooms/shops when it's the suboptimal option just for the TD3
honest kernel
with TD3, chances are you'll want all the time you can get
rain sedge
I mean usually I like having boon buffers for UC
honest kernel
at TD2 ? You have a lot more leisure
true fable
yeah i think i just take HL5 and get good at the EM3 fight
honest kernel
Or snag the accorn in Elysium
rain sedge
or, big brain
true fable
Or snag the accorn in Elysium
i already snag acorn 
rain sedge
keep rerolling until you get quick reload and greater recall
honest kernel
Oof
rain sedge
and then you just cheese
honest kernel
For Poseidon aspect?
true fable
yeah
honest kernel
Could maybe consider Athena cast ? Makes her appear in the pool early
rain sedge
no, that one specifically doesn't work
I've been trying that
there are very specific situations where you just wipe because the cast is too slow
rain sedge
like sneak become really hard, and the doomstone... it became impossible
honest kernel
Wait
rain sedge
I swear you just can't hit it at FO2 because you're too slow to cast
honest kernel
What
true fable
you can precast the sneak
true fable
its quite forgiving
honest kernel
You do know you have more than the cast button, right ?
true fable
just wait for sneak to TP and summon
honest kernel
And the companion too
true fable
and then spam cast wherever they show up
rain sedge
yea but.... usually after UC my boon is only at cast
the doomstone doesn't die from meg
honest kernel
You mentionned Tartarus minibosses you dingus
true fable
you should get 3/4 boons depending on CF2
honest kernel
Stomper
true fable
LOL
honest kernel
The fight's the Power Duo
rain sedge
oof I've been calling it wrong all this time
true fable
the skullcrusher?
rain sedge
anyway the power duo is impossible with athena I swear to the lord
I was aiming for LP too, but gave up
it's too hard
proud jay
I've resorted to taking chaos gates/story rooms/shops when it's the suboptimal o...
this has been elysium strategy for as long as i can remember
honest kernel
Wouldn't be surprised in the slightest
Elysium's been the biggest bottleneck for TD as far as I saw
Next to Tartarus in JS3 setups
rain sedge
Q: for nail of chaos, the "bonus damage" is only your attack, or global like eris?
proud jay
yeah tartarus JS3 can be tight
honest kernel
Nail of Talos you mean ? Should be global
proud jay
it's a little better now with trial and thug change
proud jay
legit question: is 40 heat more fun than 50+?
honest kernel
YES
proud jay
because that's how i feel too
true fable
absolutely
true fable
50 is often just room roulette
rain sedge
even at chiron it took me so long
proud jay
now i just want to streak 6x40
honest kernel
Pog
rain sedge
like, straight?
proud jay
in fact i'll probably start working on it
true fable
if you do an all weaps speedrun on stream
proud jay
yes, speedrun it while at it
rain sedge
damn
honest kernel
Considering 40 heat is a category now
proud jay
i did 32 heat all weapons speedrun in blood price
rain sedge
I think you have to take TD2 then, because sometimes it's just impossible
honest kernel
I might work on that while waiting for the patch
true fable
why would you take TD2
honest kernel
EM4
rain sedge
sometimes you just can't get out of tartarus fast enough no matter what
if you get cucked for boons
true fable
eh
rain sedge
ok brb, lernie fight.
honest kernel
That's what I ended up doing for my 55 heat
EM4 needs you to be an absolute god at the fight
Because it's gonna take a while
true fable
i was thinking "it's just 8 points on top of the 32 heat setup how bad could it be" and then i actually looked at the pact setup lol
honest kernel
First attempt I got to EM3 Dad I just won straight up lmao
proud jay
im not one of you absolute gods
honest kernel
I do mean the hyperbole here
Either the run needs to be insane luck-wise
Or you need to battle Dad for 5+ minutes with limited ressources
proud jay
i was thinking "it's just 8 points on top of the 32 heat setup how bad could it ...
you kind of run into bad combos at 40 heat that you can avoid at 32
true fable
i think you have to take 1 of JS1, DC1, or AP at 40
yeah
if you're trying to go fast
rain sedge
also I didn't lose my acorn at lernie even
this is looking spicyyy
or you could just do an astaos and practice EM4 FO2 until you get good
honest kernel
... That's what I did for the longest time
EM4 FO2
Wouldn't recommend it for 50 heat if you can avoid it lol
rain sedge
athena god trial at elysium or nah baj
ripe crane
At EM3 hades with 3 dashes and a patty blessing. How do I calm down before this fight
honest kernel
What's the rest of the run like
honest kernel
What's the other room
ripe crane
53
rain sedge
just pom, my strike is already lv4
this is third elysium chamber
I'm looking very good.
true fable
good luck crepes