I've never gotten the combo of hammers
#h1-high-heat-strategies
unreal pasture
unreal pasture
😢
north dove
I think dread flight was good, hard to gauge the downtime
mossy zinc
Hmm I see.
north dove
I'm still not that used to beo shield
mossy zinc
Speaking of Dash, though, you can release Charged Flight with a Dash. That's really good.
Let's you e.g. charge at a safe distance and then dash in for the range.
unreal pasture
Or for the I-frames... that should be an empty dash, right?
Or does the game consider you having started the dash with another input?
mossy zinc
I don't know, actually. Might be similar to spear and give i-frames.
unreal pasture
Spear / Spin / Dash has pretty similar gameplay
Where you basically cancel every spin with a dash
gaunt fiber
do you know where pat is hiding
mossy zinc
In the first four runs of my 5-win streak. 
rain sedge
.
gaunt fiber
watch your mouth
rain sedge
don't you think the bot is overzealous with vulgarities.
anyway, sick of AP bs resonates with me
gaunt fiber
I'm prepared to this eventuality
honest kernel
One of us
rain sedge
nya stop talking like theseus
honest kernel
One of us
rain sedge
gives me PTSD
gaunt fiber
and btw
mossy zinc
Never! Draw your weapon, @rain sedge! @gaunt fiber and I shall vanquish you! 🔫 
rain sedge
what in the world, saviour speed skulls on tartarus on chiron
this is some cursed run
gaunt fiber
I know someone who's kinda a "foul mouthed daemon" while playing specific games
rain sedge
sooo I'm zagreus, and astaos is your sidekick?
gotcha
wait but that would mean that astaos is kinda likeable
nah can't be
mossy zinc
@gaunt fiber you just got smoked.
rain sedge
ok on topic now
do you think taking HL5 instead of lower HL and some JS/CP is valid?
or will this bite me in the ass later?
(chiron)
mossy zinc
What Heat?
gaunt fiber
Idk
mossy zinc
HL5 is fine on Chiron, anyway.
gaunt fiber
I played chiron a few times, never got hit
mossy zinc
I had HL5 CP1 earlier with TD3 at 40. Pretty chill.
mossy zinc
I've been streaking with this pact setup. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/780159894342205460/Hades_1158.png?width=823&height=463
true fable
are you a believer in the doom special?
seems scuffed imo but i know a lot of other people like it
mossy zinc
RollingStone said it was good, I just gave it a try.
mossy zinc
It's workable, but DPS wasn't what I'd hoped.
rain sedge
yeah that's my exact setup
alright I guess I just have to be as good as nya
shouldn't be hard Kappa
instantly dead btw
unironically
mossy zinc
lmao
rain sedge
ok ok I'll turn down the HL
mossy zinc
alright I guess I just have to be as good as [Nyaanyaa]
shouldn't be hard Kappa
instantly dead btw
Now that's karma.
honest kernel
I swear half of my AP2 attempts forced me to grab Charged Shot lol
mossy zinc
That's not too bad, is it?
rain sedge
I'll take AP1 and CP1 instead
mossy zinc
@rain sedge just don't get hit.
mossy zinc
You don't need Relentless Volley with Chiron lol.
ripe crane
AP1 feels worse than AP2 imo
unreal pasture
It kind of seemed like Piercing Volley is more consistent on my last Chiron run... but meh
Relentless is insane as a gauge builder
mossy zinc
Depends on what you're building, actually.
unreal pasture
I just want to get rid of garbage shield boys and such... some of the most annoying things in the game
Which also kill your time
mossy zinc
Relentless Volley doesn't really do much for Drunken Flourish.
rain sedge
its heart rend
high kettle
hello here! quick dumb question, i didnt follow the last big patch, what are the best aspectson fist, spear and shield? fist used to be demeter and spear hades i believe, shield i cant bring myself to like the weap
unreal pasture
That tends to be a hard question to answer... because "best" vs "safest"
rain sedge
fist it's demeter. I like talos but people here have opinions against it soooo
mossy zinc
m way better with Guan Yu than with Hades, actually. It's just whatever you're most comfortable with.
unreal pasture
The Hades spear is just really, really easy to be safe with, I think... because you burst everything with dash spins with minimal/low risk
mossy zinc
It's not very low-risk with FO2 JS3 etc. lol.
unreal pasture
I honestly suspect that the Zeus shield is the best aspect by a large, large margin
But it's insanely difficult to play that aspect
mossy zinc
I don't think either of those are true. 
unreal pasture
Like... not even close in terms of how busted its DPS and safety are
high kettle
rn im using zagreus shield and just dash hit non stop... needless to say im not going high in heat with shield XD
unreal pasture
Yeah, one of the people did a boonless zag shield run on TD3, so 20 minute is possible
I forget who did it
Was it Baj?
rain sedge
ah close enough
mossy zinc
Retrash, yeah.
unreal pasture
Ah, yeah... honestly that's pretty insane
mossy zinc
I did 52 on Beowulf.
unreal pasture
And I don't think they even had optimal hammers because of AP1/2
mossy zinc
Beowulf is the #1 shield pick for speedruns, anyway, so I dunno about Zeus Aspect having "busted DPS" in comparison.
high kettle
i didnt know shields had so much love
unreal pasture
Yeah... that's the "difficult" to play thing
high kettle
its always been my nemesis weap
mossy zinc
Charged Flight is pretty optimal lol.
honest kernel
Zeus aspect DPS is 100% reliant on duos lmao
unreal pasture
I don't think it's actually a humanly possible thing to maximize the DPS on the zeus shield
Because it takes an insane level of mechanics and prediction
honest kernel
Getting there slowly
unreal pasture
Beo is like... you press a few buttons and everything is deleted. Which is very enjoyable
mossy zinc
I think you're way overplaying its difficulty.
unreal pasture
But not mechanically intensive
Well, I'm thinking if you were to literally have the Zeus shield on your target 100% of the time
while doing attacks
honest kernel
Watch my 50 heat clear on the Speedun.com website
unreal pasture
I can't imagine any weapon actually competes with that DPS...
honest kernel
I kinda do that ?
north dove
the boonless zag shield wasn't me btw. I don't remember seeing it.
unreal pasture
Yeah, I probably should
mossy zinc
We were talking about your 51, yeah.
north dove
ah
unreal pasture
Deals damage every 0.3 Sec., even when travelling back. according to the wiki... so it's 100 base dps
The Zeus shield
mossy zinc
I guess you should main it then or something.
unreal pasture
And basically the only weapon where the specials damage doesn't stop/cancel/disrupt your attack?
I don't like how intense it is, tbh... I played one run on it and felt bad
mossy zinc
Also not even close to Eris IGTs.
unreal pasture
Oh yeah, Eris is faceroll though... you hold down attack and dash
I don't expect it to speedrun faster than Eris
mossy zinc
Then how does it have the bestestest DPS if it can't beat other aspects in IGT?
unreal pasture
There's ... kind of time constraints and human limitations on that...
Speedingrunning with a ranged weapon is always going to be easier than ... something you have to aim and do perfectly
Because humans are the definition of error prone? 😂
It's kind of a conversation about skill floor and skill ceiling
mossy zinc
In what world do enemies spawn on top of your shield and stay there? lol
gaunt fiber
I'm getting 5 sack with TD3 EM4.
high kettle
i need to beat EM4 for the challenge someday
ripe crane
Imagine dying at phase 3 dad while you have a fully charged Athena call ready to go
honest kernel
Hum
That was me
in a learnie fight
Where I had NOTHING but a lvl 5 uncommon athena call
I got greedy AF
mossy zinc
The only boon you had, and you didn't even use it.
rain sedge
I rerolled 3x for athena call and got none
mossy zinc
Big-brain plays.
rain sedge
sure footing epic only appears when HS is off huh
mossy zinc
People actually reroll for Athena's Aid?
rain sedge
yes
gaunt fiber
I think I said I was going to practice EM4 FO2
ripe crane
I also got greedy. I feel like I could've finished him off in that call time maybe with some lucky crits, but I was out of time and wanted to save it until I was lower on life
mossy zinc
That seems like such a waste. Chiron doesn't even build God Gauge that fast, either.
gaunt fiber
not so sure about it
rain sedge
I do regret it
this is a habit I got from running 50
because it's such a nice crutch
mossy zinc
I wouldn't even put it in top 3 calls.
rain sedge
wut
honest kernel
On my end, I was in phase 2 of lernie
I got rammed from behind while I had my block up from a ram mini-head
high kettle
i think the only weap i didnt see very good runs with is fists... ill watch tailesques runs when i have time, i wonder how it looks
rain sedge
what's your top 3 call nya
gaunt fiber
you're a cat now ?
rain sedge
good lord the doomstone just ruined me again
high kettle
f
mossy zinc
There are a whole lot of good Malphon runs linked in the pinned spreadsheet.
high kettle
yup i just sawit
i really wanna try a 32 with fists someday
before maybe one day going a bit up
(i feel like a dwelf talking to giants)
gaunt fiber
dw I am one too
mossy zinc
@rain sedge I've been taking mainly Aphrodite's Aid, Zeus' Aid, Dionysus' Aid, and Artemis' Aid recently.
Sometimes Poseidon's Aid.
I'd say those are top 5? And then Athena's Aid over Demeter's Aid and Ares' Aid.
high kettle
zeus and dionysos are my personnal fav
gaunt fiber
I like Athena, she gives me 20% crit chance. Sometimes
mossy zinc
You'll need Divine Strike or Divine Flourish for that, though.
And then Artemis' Aid can unlock Deadly Reversal.
gaunt fiber
I'm ok with deadly flourish
mossy zinc
Woops.
ripe crane
https://clips.twitch.tv/DepressedRelentlessKimchiSMOrc Click here to feel better about yourself
mossy zinc
Fixed.
rain sedge
artemis aid is only good with full gauge though
gaunt fiber
<https://clips.twitch.tv/DepressedRelentlessKimchiSMOrc> Click here to feel bett...
actually it looks like me playing
mossy zinc
Yeah, but m probably building Heart Rend anyway when I take that.
north dove
I hate blue Lernie so much
mossy zinc
And you'll get a Greater Call on bosses, easily.
high kettle
<https://clips.twitch.tv/DepressedRelentlessKimchiSMOrc> Click here to feel bett...
i felt that. F for you
mossy zinc
Yeah.
gaunt fiber
Ok, no keepsake change entering asphodel, time to sleep
mossy zinc
F is the grade I give you for that death. 
tidal flame
<https://clips.twitch.tv/DepressedRelentlessKimchiSMOrc> Click here to feel bett...
TY that was great lol. I expected you to walk to lava to suicide, but this is even better.
mossy zinc
Why did you even dash into its range. That was mad random lol.
Just snipe the head from the exit raft.
tidal flame
I think it's mostly that Hydra 99% would die from Meg
ripe crane
I expected it to die to Meg. Why I dashed back idk. Then I shot at nothing. You may not like it, but this is what peak Hestia looks like
tidal flame
But CP2 be like
mossy zinc
I expected it to die to Meg.
Well, now you won't make that mistake again.
mossy zinc
lol
honest kernel
Oh, so I'm not the only one that throws like that
Neat
Seriously I feel like my 50 heat clear was a fluke and nothing more
mossy zinc
Luck is always a factor. But most people couldn't beat 50 if you gave them the perfect build.
dire steppe
never gotten heroic sure footing, is it 100%
mossy zinc
95%.
true fable
LOL that twitch clip name is killing me
depressedrelentlesskimchiSMorc
is it worth meg'ing lernie? i never do
maybe i should
true fable
i feel like if youre not in danger it doesnt save much time
mossy zinc
Depends. I'll summon Antos to skip the last phase if my HP is low with no SD.
true fable
yeah thats fair
mossy zinc
Or to save time if my DPS is not good.
true fable
i feel like sometimes i see people summon with an SD and that's always a bit of a ???? moment for me
mossy zinc
I like to have 4–5 charges in Elysium.
sly remnant
1 for elysium miniboss, 1 for heroes, 1 for styx miniboss, 1 for another miniboss/hades?
mossy zinc
Something like that. I always wanna save 1 for Hades.
ripe crane
Going into Elyseum with 402 hp. Wonder if I can hit 500
sly remnant
tartarus life affirmation?
gaunt fiber
solid 500hp at theseus
twilit orbit
hmm
what if there was a boon or a hammer that gave you bonus damage based on missing hp?
that would be kind of cool, and would let you do those dream runs where you have like 500 hp, to try and get the most damage possible out of it
gaunt fiber
That would reward players like me
Not sure if it's a good idea
It would be a flat bonus ?
You have meg keepsake already
ripe crane
Sounds like it rewards literally everyone playing LC4 with SD
So many 52 Hestias to phase 3 dad tonight. Lots of good runs, but I need to practice that fight a lot. Can't use the same reload patterns I do most of the time
tidal flame
That's with boons right?
tidal flame
Last time you talked about doing boonless 50 Hestia
true fable
a measly 40% is very hard to justify since it doesnt activate at SD
sly remnant
i think its fine the numbers are just too low
the risk for enabling something that doesn't work for most of your health needs to have much biggre payoff
tidal flame
Well for starter, just make Earrings synergize with SD like the tooltips suggest it should.
ripe crane
Yes lol with boons this time
true fable
yeah i mean
the problem with skull earring is like
if you want to do that
why not just take dad keepsake
sly remnant
^
sly remnant
i think the SD thing is whatever
even if it worked with SD
the numbers are just too low
especially when put up against something like dad keepsake.
true fable
yeah i think the numbers for dad's keepsake just need to be tweaked a bit
free epic rush delivery for 2 seconds is a bit much
like i just wish there were compelling enough reasons to pick keepsakes other than gods, acorn or dad's
or shackle for memes
north dove
Coin purse, Hourglass, Collar and Tooth are all still very viable
true fable
i get the others but why collar?
unreal pasture
Myrmidon's is a lot of DR... but yeah, I wouldn't take it in high heat
north dove
if you have 3 DDs, collar will do more for you than the Acorn or the Tooth
true fable
i forget some madmen run DDs on high heat
ripe crane
I just realized that I can take spearpoint now with PL
north dove
yeah I forgot about spearpoint too
ripe crane
I got chain damaged to death at the end of my 500 HP run
unreal pasture
That's 75 hp with collar across 3 DDs... unless you have the Athena boon for more recovery on DD
true fable
hourglass i feel like is strictly worse than dad's even on cast builds
unreal pasture
And being 25 hp across 3 DDs can be relevant (worse/better) based on some breakpoints
true fable
theres just too much trash in wells and most of the items you're looking for last for an entire biome
looking at you gaia's treasure
ripe crane
You can always equip it if you see something good in the well between biomes
unreal pasture
Ew... extra stones or extra cast damage is really strong... one +50% cast is like a chaos cast boon
sly remnant
hey one time i saw stone and braid in a styx well
that was a value hourglass
(beo of course)
honest kernel
Sooo
LAST PHASE
Health wise I'm good, played the first 2 phases super well
and I get down eventually. Now I'm like : "Let's wait for the right moment to use the greater call to finish the fight"
I GET URNED
LIKE' YEETED INTO A URN
I was SO close
You know how good phase 1 went ? Butterflies, still kept 3 accorn charges
And the fight started with 10 minutes on the clock
unreal pasture
150 damage is kind of bs... ngl
honest kernel
AND THE BEST PART?
unreal pasture
which is almost why I refuse to play with HS on
honest kernel
I THREW A POTENTIAL DEATH DEFY BECAUSE I FORGOT TO DIE BEFORE PICKING IT UP
unreal pasture
rip
ripe crane
This game is only pain
ripe crane
Oh hey that's what happened to me almost exactly.
The game knows when you're sandbagging that greater call
ember bronze
So I'm probably going to be distracted a bit due to other things coming out tomorrow, but I figured I'd mention, this channel is a big part of how much I got into this: https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/1330722640487538690
dire steppe
gg! you’re part of some elite club now
i’d say “welcome to the club” if i wasn’t the farthest thing from it
ripe crane
Awesome job @ember bronze ! I was just thinking yesterday that you hadn't been around in a while. Glad you're still playing 👍
ember bronze
Aww, glad to know I was noticed 😛 . I'm sure I'll be playing, but trying to ease myself off gaming habits other than Shadowlands for a little bit. Games like this I always keep coming back to
north dove
Nice! Looks like Chaos was very generous there!
misty hamlet
yes they were
not easily visible is the frost strike and heartbreak dash used to activate privileged status
and it couldn't come with me across the finish line, but Aphrodite's Aid to ruin the champions
honest kernel
I keep getting to Hades, but I have to do the actual fight
I can at 'least get far in the third phase now
Now, to not step on urns
Also, very nice, wobbles
tidal flame
I don't know how he does it with Death Defiance
But props to him for making it happen lol
edgy arrow
wait wobbles did 50 with LC4 and DDs
i don’t know what to believe anymore
props to him indeed
honest kernel
I'm actually tempted to go for that
Since I want all the power I can get with my setup for EM4 hades
edgy arrow
do it
honestly it’s kinda funny that we’re so focused on this we’re ignoring the fact someone just got their first 50 with lucy
someone do 52 lucy real quick so we can say it’s better than eris
tidal flame
maybe there was no meta in the end
edgy arrow
the real meta was the friends we made along the way
spring kettle
Patroclus number one run saver
twilit orbit
okay but does the decision between DD and SD matter if you're a PRO GAMER and never take damage?
mossy zinc
I'll let you know when we have an actual pro Hades player making money.
honest kernel
And another run failed
Heck
I'm getting sick of this already
Adds were Butterfly + Sneak
Next time I'm getting the spearpoint
high kettle
what cosmetic for the hud do you use? its kinda neat
true fable
i think that's woodland? could be wrong
mossy zinc
40+ Malphon done. But the streak died. 
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/780368842564173834/Hades_1163.png?width=823&height=463
The real victory. https://imgur.com/a/ROkE5NZ
First Trout. 🥳
The Legendary Trout.
mossy zinc
Yes.
true fable
i respect it
mossy zinc
I don't really care what hammers I have on Gilgamesh if it's not Breaching Cross lol.
true fable
more hammers > less hammers
i like rending claws but breaching cross is probs still better
static plover
breaching cross is the most effective hammer on fists
+900% dash strike damage to armour is too good to pass up. It used to be 1000% at one point in early access
mossy zinc
Another one. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/780386814765563934/Hades_1168.png?width=823&height=463
prime cairn
Two new category leaderboards are open on Speedrun.com! "It's free real estate." 
3 Weapons - Just like All Weapons but half only the time/effort, making this more accessible, which emphasises player choice of aspects.
40 Heat - A more competitive leaderboard in the High Heat space, designed to be more achievable than the extremely difficult/prestige 50 heat category.
https://www.speedrun.com/hades
Good luck @here!
Let's see those 40's up there! I'm getting in on it (eventually)!
mossy zinc
I did 4 yesterday and 2 today, and I didn't record a single one lol.
gaunt fiber
Is the death% one planned or not at all ?
prime cairn
lal, but for you Nyar, whipping some up will be ez.
mossy zinc
That's actually why I haven't bothered recording them lol.
prime cairn
@gaunt fiber - Has there been talk of that? First I've heard of it. What's the premise, fastest death?
@mossy zinc If you've streamed them, then they're recorded auto on Twitch 😉
mossy zinc
No, I haven't streamed them.
prime cairn
Only SFV 
gaunt fiber
<@!238040913715265537> - Has there been talk of that? First I've heard of it. Wh...
Basically yeah, but it's more of a joke than anything else. But that would be a category in which I could participate 
mossy zinc
13/24 aspects done at 40+. 👸🏽
prime cairn
vids or lying!
mossy zinc
4/4 bow, 4/4 fists, 3/4 spear, 1/4 rail, 1/4 shield, 0/4 sword
Zag sword still sits at 1 Heat.
prime cairn
It's a solid goal, I'd like to do that too
Enjoy Zag Sword. 🙂
Flurry slash/Cursed slash? 
mossy zinc
I don't know if I'll do all at 40 or move on to other things before that.
rain sedge
oh wow, 40 heat
I might actually look for options to stream/record on switch, this is interesting
edgy arrow
me: shamelessly submits a kinda eh 32 heat speedrun because lack of numbers puts me disproportionately high on the leaderboard
jerds: adds 40 heat category
me:
gaunt fiber
Next time I sure will
The first thing I thought was "Did I pick Acorn ?"
But I don't get much practice lol
gaunt fiber
I can get to styx in 10 min
gaunt fiber
theres's a mod that can help, I think
Idk about doing that
rain sedge
it's just for practice
gaunt fiber
Yeah 1min of practice every 20 is pretty sad
But it's not a waste either
I get to practice the whole run with different setups
rain sedge
what heat are you practicing on?
gaunt fiber
43
rain sedge
just FO2 EM4?
yeah that's not a waste, that's good
ok, I'm at styx for 40 heat chiron, just need to not get 3/4/5 sacced and I"m good
I can keep my patty and it's all gucci
mossy zinc
EM4?
rain sedge
the patty is already gone, as well as my jerky
gaunt fiber
You don't need Patty buddy
mossy zinc
You have Acorn. Don't sweat it.
rain sedge
nah it's my fault, I played really sloppy
mossy zinc
Nerves will be nerves.
rain sedge
could've divine dashed a lot of things, but busy watching irrelevant stuff like my bloodstone count/his bloodstone debuff
I had the perfect boons too
maybe I should turn down the HL, no joke
gaunt fiber
Chiron abuser not even no hitting dad
mossy zinc
Practice the fight from a practice fight if you have one. With CP2 HL5 FO2 HS turned on, and maybe DC1–2 if you plan to use that in the run.
With a somewhat simple build.
edgy arrow
FO2 is a mistake (he says, while never turning it off)
rain sedge
I'm on switch
mossy zinc
You'll have a lot more confidence when you go into the fight at 40+.
Oh.
Then errr . . . good luck!
rain sedge
literally the biggest mistake buying this game btw
I was thinking if I should do switch or PC
and it was "cRoSs sAvE iN oCtObEr" and I thought... no big deal
and here we are
rain sedge
I still dont have the patch from september
my lucifer is unbuffed, I'm missing 2 themes, and there's bug fiestas that's not fixed
gaunt fiber
Do you have GY at full power ?
rain sedge
no, was there a buff?
edgy arrow
yeah
mossy zinc
- Eternal Spear (Guan Yu Aspect): increased attack damage; improved attack input buffering (you now can Dash between strikes)
edgy arrow
true
trim sigil
FO2 is a mistake (he says, while never turning it off)
man, that makes me imagine Hypnos commenting on the pact options
"Oh, looks like with Hard Labor you got hit very hard out there and died? Well, reconsider not getting hit next time"
edgy arrow
“Convenience fees? In this economy?”
“Maybe you wouldn’t die to the deadline so often if you went faster”
mossy zinc
"Why did you take Heightened Security? It's only 1 Heat."—Amir/Hypnos
edgy arrow
“You shouldn’t take Extreme Measures 3. Asterius won’t be able to sign an autograph wearing gauntlets”
mossy zinc
"Those Wretched Thugs hit pretty hard, right?"
"Right . . ."
"If you have Hard Labor at rank 5."
"Yeah . . ."
"And they have that Slugger perk from Benefits Package? Oh man. That must have hurt."
"It did."
"Not so Highly Confident now, are we?"
". . ."
edgy arrow
“You should use Routine Inspection 4”
“... no”
“Why not?”
“I’ll lose my death defiance-“
“We’ve been over this, Zagreus; you should try to avoid dying”
mossy zinc
"You should use Routine Inspection 4."
"Okay."
That was the dialogue I got.
Maybe you're still on the Switch patch?
edgy arrow
hmm must be
idk if it’s a bug but every time i turn on RI4 everything goes so badly i die in real life
mossy zinc
I don't think that's a bug. That's just lack of skill.
edgy arrow
my lack of skill isn’t a bug?
edgy arrow
damn was hoping they’d patch it
edgy arrow
rip
mossy zinc
Yeah, rip is the result.
edgy arrow
i mean, i haven’t tried it seriously
only like “haha let’s do 63 heat yolo” runs
maybe i’ll try it for real
i probs won’t do it at 32 tho 😛
mossy zinc
The first I did was at 20 Heat, I think.
edgy arrow
that seems higher than i can achieve, so prolly a good place to start
if i only did things that had any chance of success, i probably wouldn’t even be in this channel
cinder cave
my lack of skill isn’t a bug?
are you implying it is a bug? Are you some kind of Hades Terminator from the future
gaunt fiber
it's ok dude
cinder cave
don't worry man
gaunt fiber
we're pressing buttons on a controller
cinder cave
I died to naked EM4 FO2
well i'm 1-1 on that practice setup
so I'm much much worse
edgy arrow
i actually haven’t practiced EM4 at all in ages
mossy zinc
Some people merely press buttons on a controller.
edgy arrow
in my defence, it scary
mossy zinc
I create history. 👸🏽
edgy arrow
that’s a convoluted way of admitting you use a dance pad
mossy zinc
I think I have like 1 or 2 clears with EM4 on.
mossy zinc
I don't think mine were at very high heat lol.
cinder cave
there are just a few moves that keep catching me out
like he has a double spin on EM4 that i don't expect the second spin
edgy arrow
when i was doing it regularly the double spin wasn’t too bad
cinder cave
you're probably a lot more experienced than I am tbf
edgy arrow
but as i said, i haven’t practiced in a while and atm it catches me out every time when i do it
idk about that lol
cinder cave
i definitely feel like
edgy arrow
i’m like, the worst player who frequents this channel by a decent margin
cinder cave
i shouldn't be able to lose 1k+ EHP
even though my build had dps issues
maybe that shoulda been the takeaway though
if my build hasn't come together before EM4, expect to lose?
edgy arrow
thing about EM4 is you can’t really tank through it
in my experience anyway
no matter how tough you think you are
it just goes too long
cinder cave
that's fair
gaunt fiber
it's so true
misty hamlet
Yeah
mossy zinc
EM4 with Malphon is just incredibly frustrating.
misty hamlet
In one sense they did a great job with it because you have to be hideously ahead of the curve to just mash through it
cinder cave
EM4 with Malphon is just incredibly frustrating.
Oh okay that was my last loss
vindicated
misty hamlet
On the other hand... double sneaks ):
edgy arrow
i basically mashed through it with a beo build once
i think i had about +200% extra cast damage from chaos
cinder cave
i’m like, the worst player who frequents this channel by a decent margin
it occurs to me that that can't possibly be true
misty hamlet
And yeah I would say that of the 45 heats, fists were the hardest across the board for me
cinder cave
I frequent this channel after all 
edgy arrow
ok we need to fight to see who’s worst
misty hamlet
Gilgamesh was the easiest for me but mostly because I ignored the actual punches
cinder cave
versus mode when
edgy arrow
the trick with gilg does seem to be to ignore all of its actual features
misty hamlet
I learned at that point to stop using the weapon
edgy arrow
did you go ME with it?
misty hamlet
Not sure lemme pull up my screencap one second
edgy arrow
lightning
also you could do nyaanyaa’s build; divine strike + deadly flourish into deadly reversal
or just play talos and do a cast build
misty hamlet
What the heck is this build
cinder cave
oh so you just play for the 20% crit chance rather than putting arty on strike
interesting
edgy arrow
divine strike ups your survivability by a lot on fists
edgy arrow
generally sustain is more of an issue than dps for malphon, particular dem
so divine strike/dash is pretty universal at high heat
cinder cave
ME just feels like a highroll build
misty hamlet
and then weakened with my special
cinder cave
so divine strike/dash is pretty universal at high heat
I guess I've been undervaluing divine strike
i'll give it a go
Thank you
edgy arrow
np
misty hamlet
i remember my 40 heat had a pretty cool doom build that never made merciful end
edgy arrow
yeah i’ve definitely undervalued divine strike a lot as well
i’ve been trying to learn sword recently, and it’s hammered home to me how valuable it can be for melee
mossy zinc
Is this what happens when my 41 WR on Malphon was half a year ago? People undervalue my build again? 
edgy arrow
i was just recommending lol
edgy arrow
i meant like, i was wrong to undervalue it
mossy zinc
You were indeed.
cinder cave
I think I was just putting my deadly strike and divine flourish the wrong way around
xD
mossy zinc
cinder cave
if you're aiming for deadly reversal and hunter's mark that just seems
silly right
well thanks for highlighting to me the flaws in my reasoning
cinder cave
i meant like, i was wrong to undervalue it
Think I'm just going to force divine strike on all my melee runs for a while
and see how that goes
mossy zinc
Take whichever you see first out of Divine Strike and Divine Dash. If you see both, take Strike if it's rare or epic.
Otherwise, Dash.
edgy arrow
ngl having divine dash at higher than common actually makes me vaguely annoyed
like, that good rng, completely wasted
mossy zinc
It's nice.
mossy zinc
I think people underestimate how many times a Dash-Strike wouldn't have killed without the damage from Divine Dash itself.
edgy arrow
i mean, ig
cinder cave
I've been taking divine dash since the beginning of time so
mossy zinc
6 damage can make the difference between needing another hit and not needing another hit.
edgy arrow
doesn’t change the fact that i’d rather have the higher rarity on basically anything else
mossy zinc
I wasn't playing Hades half a year ago
I've been taking divine dash since the beginning of time so
cinder cave
I literally haven't picked up divine strike since heat 0 i think
mossy zinc
Got 'em.
cinder cave
> I wasn't playing Hades half a year ago
> I've been taking divine dash since th...
My life started when I bought Hades
soooooo
mossy zinc
That is not the beginning of time.
Getting higher rarity Divine Dash doesn't affect your rarity on other boons.
edgy arrow
time started when the High Priest of Bouldy declared it
cinder cave
My life started when I bought Hades
My life Time started when I bought Hades
edgy arrow
not a moment before
edgy arrow
Getting higher rarity Divine Dash doesn't affect your rarity on other boons.
this is absolutely correct, but my brain is not rational
cinder cave
tbf that is a very common psychological fallacy
it's basically same as gambler's fallacy
if you see 10 heads in a row of coinflips
you expect tails to become more likely
edgy arrow
yeah
gaunt fiber
50
gaunt fiber
no life affirmation
Erebus gate and some hearts lol
but I was too slow anyway, TD will get me
cinder cave
thought you said TD3 was easy 
gaunt fiber
It's ok when you actually take shops, don't go for an athena trial
I would not say it is easy tho
You have to practice a bit
mossy zinc
Don't blame Lady Athena, slowpoke.
gaunt fiber
oof
rain sedge
charm lasts shorter to bosses, anyone know how much shorter?
ripe crane
A lot
sly remnant
i think its 1/4?
ripe crane
Every time i see my name, I wonder if ledgerdamayn is ever coming back
ripe crane
"Mods HELP they're giving me the right answer and I don't like it 😡"
misty hamlet
To be specific
rain sedge
ok so I took drunken dash because I had no other good option from a forced dionysus
and I thought it's useless
and suddenly, splitting headache
woooot
misty hamlet
Most bosses are “a lot” but against dad it’s “a lot a lot”
I like Dio dash
I am pleasantly surprised at how many boons I didn’t like before, that I like now
mossy zinc
I used to like Divine Dash a lot but also take other Dashes.
I've become wiser, though.
I no longer take other Dashes.
rain sedge
back at dad, no patty, barely any good boons
let's see how this one goes
cool I'm dead
time to quit high heat I think
ripe crane
Are you doing EM4
cinder cave
I've become wiser, though.
Athena is the Goddess of Wisdom after all
mossy zinc
Sounds like you're getting very close, though.
The #1 skill for success at high heat is perseverance.
Don't give up. You'll get him.
gaunt fiber
Why do I never get such cheering
sly remnant
40 HEAT SPEEDRUNS HELL YEA
ripe crane
Are they officially a category now
gaunt fiber
Yeah, I see no difference...
edgy arrow
yup
sly remnant
edgy arrow
three weapons was just added as well
32 still only has 10 people in it, so it’ll prolly be pretty sparse as well lol
but it’s cool so i’m not gonna complain
ripe crane
What's 3 weapons
edgy arrow
like all weapons but just three
ripe crane
O
sly remnant
i think a lot of the "big" speedrunners didn't like 32 heat because it was just kinda more dangerous any% but that 8 extra heat actually adds quite a bit of difficulty
since you can't just take the "fast" heat anymore
gaunt fiber
@rain sedge So I took spear point and got 2 shot lol
edgy arrow
the big speedrunners mostly don’t do higher heats at all, really, so i don’t expect they’ll be lining up for 40 heat runs
love to be proven wrong tho
edgy arrow
i’m all for more higher heat recordings floating around
sly remnant
a lot of them didn't like 32 because the strats were the same as any%
ripe crane
I wouldn't mind giving 40 a try.
Demeter fists is the closest thing to a speed weapon that I use though
sly remnant
40 is a decent spot for demeter fists
edgy arrow
dem is absolutely speed weapon
isn’t it like, the second fastest in anyheat
5th fastest nvm
wtf is zag spear doing at #4
sly remnant
technically nemesis is number 2 in terms of aspects but there was an absolutely INSANE demeter fists run put up last night
did you see the 6:20 someone put up on demeter fists
ripe crane
My guess is chain skewer
edgy arrow
nemesis is 4th
zag spear and zag rail are both beating it
sorry zag spear is 3rd
must be chain skewer ig yeah
sly remnant
top end =/= generally agreed upon speed
edgy arrow
okay sure but anything that isn’t the leaderboard is conjecture
sly remnant
and the leaderboard is subject to a lot of different factors other than just aspects
edgy arrow
you might be right, but we can’t say for certain until it’s proven
edgy arrow
lol nah
sly remnant
she's not
edgy arrow
i’m a heat player
Tail is the best player
more seriously, i’m not saying the leaderboard is objective by any means
what i’m saying is that theorycrafting isn’t more objective
sly remnant
i actually disagree with you
results-oriented isn't the right way to think about speed
now logic can always be faulty, but its much better to think about an aspect in terms ofwhat makes it good and how fast it can go
as opposed to one contextless time that one person posted on an aspect
mossy zinc
Why not both? Can't have good theory without data.
edgy arrow
^^^
sly remnant
absolutely
edgy arrow
i guess we agree then?
sly remnant
but one time does not make zag rail the "second fastest weapon"
edgy arrow
i certainly don’t want to discount theory entirely
mossy zinc
It proves potential, though.
edgy arrow
i mean, when i said that i meant “second fastest now” not “objectively second fastest forever”
sly remnant
i guess what i'm trying to say is i don't like making any assumption about a weapon on its location on the leaderboard
that is a location devoid of context
it doesn't mean something lower isn't a generally faster weapon
so saying
things like "demeter fists is 5th fastest"
edgy arrow
sorry i think you misinterpreted that comment
sly remnant
is a pretty disingenuous statement to make
edgy arrow
i meant, it’s fifth on the leaderboard
sly remnant
mmmm
edgy arrow
that’s objectively true, and all i meant
edgy arrow
didn’t mean to imply it’s for certain the fifth fastest weapon
as you say, we can’t really know that based on current data
edgy arrow
no worries, sorry for the confusion
a civil conversation.
mossy zinc
Zag sword is the fastest aspect.
It's the only one that makes you faster.
Or so m told. I only did 1 clear with it at 1 Heat.
edgy arrow
zag sword used to be op for speedruns back when it buffed dash distance, so they were forced to nerf it
ripe crane
Best player is actually haelian cause he has the most YouTube views
rain sedge
nah I'm actually done with high heat, thanks for the cheers though
at least until cross save is here and I can play on PC
too many pure luck factors like sack number etc, it's actually getting unfun for me because there's no way to play around it
styx was the biggest mistake in this otherwise perfect game
I'm just gonna chill at 32 heat from now on, thank you very much
and try out wild builds
ripe crane
High heat definitely gets frustrating, especially the factors outside of your control. Nobody gonna blame you for taking a break if you're not having fun.
loud coral
Yeah I'll probably take a few cracks at 50 heat, maybe 6x40 and 6x45 then be done. Having a perfect build ruined by not getting a 2sack just isn't fun at the end of the day
misty hamlet
I will 
loud coral
I say all of this but I'll probably stll end up spending the next few months trying to do 55 heat for no reason
true fable
40 heat is a category 🦀🦀
sly remnant
first try at 40 heat ended in death
got some insane room luck
boon luck was pretty middling
if i'd gotten patty and a 2 sac i think this is a win
true fable
also im p sure dem fists is second fastest again
not that it matters anyway but
turns out you can go pretty fast when you get ME in the tartarus midshop lmao
looking forward to getting something to submit for 40 heat before tailesque inevitably clears it in 8 minutes
ripe crane
Maybe I'll try Dem at 40 but idk if I can really go that fast. I usually start with Artemis cause having her in special is insane, but Zeus start may be better
loud coral
Actually I got a good run with Dem 40, lemme find it
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/759541019871019010/780471740156739640/unknown.png Found it, I'll probably try Heart Rend on Dem40 next
ripe crane
Explosive upper is wack, that is what I had for 51. It makes Artemis on special sooooo strong. That and kinetic launcher are S tier imo. At least for Artemis special.
Dio on attack is something I have thought could be good but never actually tried
loud coral
I should've went Aphro on attack to be honest, Dio was still good for the duos and overall damage
true fable
tbh crepes i might do fists with zeus attack and just reset for artemis or keepsake in asphodel
i just dont want anything else on the special
ripe crane
Ya Zeus tart is probably faster, then artemis in Asphodel unless you already found it
true fable
my problem is i think i also need crutch dash
ripe crane
It is very important on fists so you can keep attacking
true fable
and idk if im willing to keepsake in elysium
ripe crane
You can
loud coral
DDash is better than 5 free hits on a boss imo
ripe crane
Ketchup I'm looking at your heat setup and thinking take off JS and DC and add them to HL for optimal 40 heat speed
loud coral
Yeah that was before I got used to HL, I'm a lot comfortable with HL3-5 now
rain sedge
I wanted to do 6x40 and eris 50, but...
if I can't even do chiron 40, I doubt I'd be able to do other weapons easily
I'm happy with my eris 45, that's my claim to the game I think. The rest is just relaxation
loud coral
Shield and Sword 40 are where I think I'll have a hard time
Not sure if I should keep sticking to Arthur or not
rain sedge
that's the thing right
for sword, if you get lightning phalanx, or any sort of cast with quick reload and greater recall
I'm pretty sure it's damn free
but without it, it's just a pain
same with chiron
if you have relentless and concentrated volley it's free, otherwise it can be a slog
anyway I'm whining too much, I'm super salty from my chiron runs
ripe crane
If you just want to complete 40, you can just slow down a bit and do like HL0, LC4, CF2, JS0, EM3, CP2, BP2, MM, UC, FO2, RI2, DC2, AP1, TD2.
gaunt fiber
@rain sedge don't you dare giving up like that boyo
ripe crane
Try less to force a specific build and just roll with what you get
TD2 and HL0 is a more chill pace
mossy zinc
It's a good idea to just do other things if you're not feeling it. It's supposed to be fun.
I didn't have fun with shield mirrorless at 32, so I just do other things now.
Might come back to it some time in the future if I feel like it.
Or maybe not. It's a self-imposed challenge either way.
I imagine in a couple more months of playing, that shield 32 mirrorless is gonna be much easier for me.
mossy zinc
Maybe I'll do some shield speedruns and finish bounties on it between now and then or just get some new ideas for how to play it.
@loud coral I don't see what you mean.
Isn't this how you're supposed to do 32?
loud coral
Still stuck on 32 mirrorless smh, everybody's moved on to 60 mirrorless by now
mossy zinc
I could submit one of those mirrorless clears to the speedrun leaderboard and actually beat some people lol.
loud coral
Still haven't done a speedrun yet actually, I'll probably do it once I get bored of high heat
sly remnant
i like speedrunning 32 because it makes you focus on mechanics in a much less stress environment
loud coral
No hearts GY on 0 heat is harder than 32, or at least much more stressful
I still keep my GY at level 1 just for the 15 health runs
Actually what if Guan Yu was just it's own speedrun category 
true fable
40 heat speedrun seems to be the sweetspot
honest kernel
It really is
true fable
and then HL5 LC4
pick n choose another meaningless pact
and hit that begin escape button
sly remnant
like HL5 LC4 EM3 BP1 MM HS TD3
might be forgetting something random but i think this is the "fast" pacts
oh FO2
as well
true fable
yeap
i think i did EM2 BP2 but id probably do EM3 if i tried it again
which i wont since 40s a category now
true fable
eris is kinda dangerous sometimes
yeah
does any of this matter when you can just play rama
sly remnant
i think JS and DC make mroe sense for eris
running DC is hard tho
it messes with my meg timings so much
true fable
yeah
you could get supremely gamed on by the butterfly ball
i think i'll probably just meg lernie or barge instead of bombers on 40 heat
that fight takes so long w/o a summon though 💀
sly remnant
ugh bombers
actively think about ripping getting them even at 32
they are sooooo much longer than anything else
rugged acorn
why is eris bad for EM4?
I've tried it a few times and it's worked super well for me
but I don't have any of the other heat modifiers on
true fable
eris isnt bad for anything just could be slightly more dangerous than beo imo
rugged acorn
oh fair enough
true fable
would uber suck to be on good pace and then die to dad in 2 hits
ripe crane
Use Hestia so you can just push one button instead of two
hollow lynx
who said eris was bad for em4 💀
cedar thistle
hestia one button? is this a no reload meme run?
ripe crane
Just map reload and fire to the same button
cedar thistle
😮 does that actually work
ripe crane
GOOD question
ripe crane
It's still good
rain sedge
and the 4x bonus for achilles - that's per cast stone right
so each of the beam deals more damage, not per damage instance?
ripe crane
Right
rain sedge
cool, low heat city here I come
ripe crane
You can always start with Artemis and then take either dem or ares cast of one shows up, since you want the artemis duo either way
rain sedge
I see
I think I have to try this "roll with whatver boon I'm given" mentality
whoa the pom scaling sucks
cedar thistle
I think I have to try this "roll with whatver boon I'm given" mentality
do that with ap2 😄
honest kernel
With AP2 you are lucky if you get boons that actually do something, if not straight up harm you
rain sedge
im only doing 32 heat from now on, I'm burnt out from trying high heat
was very frustrating
so no AP
honest kernel
Understandable
true fable
just get flurry jab
i literally did a double take during my achilles 32 because flurry jab made it feel like 0 heat
rain sedge
flurry jab might be a better hammer than serrated point tbh
neat furnace
for every aspect other than hades and guan yu, yeah probably
true fable
it 100% is
rain sedge
I was thinking specifically for hades aspec
true fable
would be the best hammer on hades and GY just cant get it on them
rain sedge
I see that we already had this conversation before, and I forgot this.
true fable
i dont recall but that sounds right
neat furnace
serrated point is dashstrike hits three times but the dash itself is shorter?
or is the range shorter?
true fable
dash is shorter
neat furnace
fair exchange then
do the additional hits count for the number of attacks achilles lasts for?
waxen relic
From what I've heard, no.
I wish Hades' Spin was the Special Attack. It'd be sooo good
true fable
what's the difference? just that you could get flurry jab?
true fable
ah yeah having a special boon would matter
hades spear would actually be a top tier speed weapon if you could get heart rend flurry jab
i imagine they designed spear with that in mind though
mossy zinc
After 2 hours of failing sword, I realized my mistake was playing sword. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/780535886874017792/Hades_1172.png?width=821&height=462 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/780535910034309151/Hades_1173.png?width=821&height=462
true fable
inteligente
mossy zinc
Ty ty.
true fable
playing sword is very common mistake when people pick a sword aspect ive found
you get tricked into thinking that a sword is a weapon
tidal flame
Is Arthur a sword?
true fable
large toothpick
mossy zinc
Nemesis is certainly a toothpick.
But a Double-Edged toothpick is a weapon, I've found.
true fable
two toothpicks is a weapon i suppose
arthur is a large toothpick or a small picnic table
true fable
haha
mossy zinc
FO2 Hades fight with Excalibur is annoying.
true fable
mettle unironically good for arthur
mossy zinc
Unshakable Mettle is good on anything.
I found out in that run after spending 5 or 6 rerolls looking for it, that Hunter Dash is no requirement for Mirage Shot.
And @gaunt fiber was just watching not saying anything.
waxen relic
Did some Spice for the new 40 heat Speedrun Category btw https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/780540947263389698
mild swallow
zag shield wew lordie
tidal flame
inb4 Tail makes a sub 10 next day
mossy zinc
you asked, I answered <:peepoHappy:392730058697211904>
After I spent my last reroll.
mild swallow
i need some tips on what the best affixes are for free heat. starting to clear with EM3 and a few other 1 heaters active, but idk if im picking good options so far lol
gaunt fiber
Yeah...
mossy zinc
No such thing as free heat.
mild swallow
well not free, but certainly some options are more easily dealt with than others
tidal flame
TD3 (just TD3) is kinda free ngl