wat
#h1-high-heat-strategies
heady olive
true fable
bablo's zag spear run is also the fastest non eris run
oh my god is zag spear just the second best aspect period
cinder cave
Numbers don’t lie
gaunt crane
I won't lie, I don't fully understand the appeal of the Spear special
When I go Spear I pick Hades and spam Daedalus-upgraded Spins
twilit orbit
exploding launcher is great
its just that the spear special feels almost unusable without it
true fable
oh, hades spear? the inferior spear aspect you mean?
gaunt crane
but consider this: spin attack go brrrrrrrrrr
i do not acknowledge the existence of walls. because spin attack doesn't either.
I don't know much, though: I'm not a spear guy. I'm only on like, Heat 4 with the spear xD
Twin Fists are where it's at.
misty hamlet
45 zag fist done, almost through the zagspects 
misty hamlet
zag rail
loud coral
Guess it's time to abuse Deadly Strike and Spread Fire
Also jeezus I just got 2 extra bloodstones from Chaos in Tartarus, so glad I took Stygian Soul
Hopefully this is the 45 heat win
loud coral
Achilles
true fable
HB?
loud coral
HB?
loud coral
Lightning Phalanx, got Zeus and Athena in Tartarus so gonna go for that
Died to Meg
Shouldn't have jinxed it smh
north dove
oof, you hate to see it
loud coral
That was such a bad fight lmfao, I usually make it to Styx or Dad
heady olive
i have the most trouble with the furies
true fable
i feel like usually i die at furies or make it to heroes
there is no in between
dying at furies feels like a real
merciful end 😎
ripe crane
Sorry Tail 😬 https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/777050566416531486/unknown.png?width=1191&height=670
heady olive
wow congrats
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
ripe crane
Thanks 😄
north dove
Nice one!
north dove
curious about the EM2 instead of EM3
ripe crane
I know y'all are looking at that cluster bomb thinking it carried me, but actually I preferred just using the main attack tbh
tidal flame
If I would guess, EM3 adds too much health maybe?
ripe crane
I was just tired of dying to EM3 lol
tidal flame
wait, what's up with that 51 heat clear on Fists?
ripe crane
O ya that was last week sometime. I was tired of bugging wriste, so I'm waiting for the speedrun.com guys to approve it so he can just use that as validation before adding to the spreadsheet
muted fossil
hmm. trying to decide what pacts go with for 32 heat. Doing Hestia so not sure if i want to do DC and im not that fast so not sure about TD either
heady olive
td2 should be fine
tidal flame
well, record on Hestia is 48 heat I think pre 1.0 and the person who cleared it (Wriste) didn't even have DC1 on
muted fossil
td2? i average like 20 minutes per run
muted fossil
well i guess ill try it
heady olive
huh
ripe crane
DC is bad on Hestia. TD2 is fine, that's 28 minutes.
heady olive
20 mins is quite fast for td2
muted fossil
lemme check my fastest rail run
tidal flame
bite the bullet and take TD3 tbh
muted fossil
23 for best time
tidal flame
just consciously push yourself to play fast.
muted fossil
no clue on aspect but I use Hestia a lot
tidal flame
you are p close
muted fossil
well that run went terribly
heady olive
that was fast
muted fossil
i didn't really die
ripe crane
Wow, it was over in 4 minutes! You can totally do TD3
heady olive
muted fossil
yes
true fable
yes
ripe crane
wHAT
true fable
crepes how many hours do you have in this game
ripe crane
346
true fable
LOL
heady olive
wat
crystal iron
what a coincidence, I also have exactly 346 hours
ripe crane
True, the 6 is the same. So the only difference is 62 - 34, which is 28 hours. Not too much.
true fable
i have 420 hours 😎
dire steppe
i have 2 hours
ripe crane
And as Nyaa just said,
2=6.
So we literally all have the same number of hours, that's crazy
daring hedge
@ripe crane congrats! though, not directly comparable because i used a melee weapon 
ripe crane
You put the lil' face, but you're completely right lol
mossy zinc
You both have your mirror, so does it really count?
muted fossil
new philosphy
daring hedge
lol
muted fossil
I hate JS
daring hedge
boonless mirrorless is the only way to be now
muted fossil
JS does not goes as well with Hestia as I thought it would
instead I get half the room filled with skulls all interconnected with lasers
mossy zinc
lol yeah don't take JS.
CP should be fine, though.
You still have base rail Attack for Numbskulls. Just hold down Attack.
true fable
what's next, boonless mirrorless runs with one eye closed standing on one leg?
muted fossil
anyway try number 3, or 942. i lost track around 2
ripe crane
How'd you add another 6 react?
mossy zinc
Sure.
muted fossil
I'm a big fan of the dashes
although with my current 100% more damage using maim might be a bit dnagerous
mossy zinc
32 imo is way more about the player than the aspect or build.
You could just put those 5 points into something else if it's worrying you.
Lots of options at 32.
muted fossil
i dunno i think im a good player
i am getting good at dodging through most of Hades normal attacks
heady olive
just dont do it
mossy zinc
Yeah, then it's just more practice at this point.
Just general practice and practice with whatever aspect you want to pick.
muted fossil
eh whatever im waiting for dialogue so i gotta die a few times anyway
true fable
also we all die anyway so
mossy zinc
Maybe you.
muted fossil
fun fact
i am actually legally the world's best gilgamesh player
don't look it up just trust me
loud coral
God 45 heat is so much harder than 40
I'll probably have to use RI1 but I really don't wanna do it
gaunt crane
step 1 of malphon: p u n c h
there is no step 2
muted fossil
my current step of 32 run is figuring out what pacts i dislike
maybe I should wait til I have a bit more levels
north dove
never ever touch RI
muted fossil
gilgamesh is only at level 1
gaunt crane
RI?
muted fossil
Real Ice-cream
a vile thing
ripe crane
Ay @true fable I found out what happens when you get a pom with no boons. You get money instead. Not sure if you learned that yet.
true fable
yeah you get like 250 right
thats kind of big money
hoarding slash strats
it'll probably still be bad
north dove
boonless zag sword meta 👀
ripe crane
I bought the one from Charon at the end, it cost 540 with CF and I got 334 back
gaunt crane
boonless zag sword meta 👀
@north dove u kno it's excalibur baybeeeeeeee
gaunt crane
wait oh you mean default
ripe crane
Wiseguy check the pinned messages, there is a list of all the abbreviations
gaunt crane
danke
mossy zinc
Yeah, you should just buy all the poms for 100 if you have no pomable boons.
You get rich from that.
ripe crane
Huh, I had no idea
muted fossil
it's time for the real question
muted fossil
do I take a useful hammer upgrade that syncs up well with my build
loud coral
Buying 540 poms for 330 gold
true fable
is he gonna paddle you
loud coral
true fable
fated list always
loud coral
What heat?
muted fossil
32
loud coral
Eh I'd take the good one
north dove
why are you attempting 32 so early? 
loud coral
ohhhh
twilit orbit
@north dove well technically the optimal time to do 32 heat is right after your 9th clear :^)
it's never going to get easier than that
heady olive
big brain strats
muted fossil
i suppose that is true
heady olive
i wonder if u could cheese 64 heat with that
muted fossil
can you EM4 hades before the 10th clear?
loud coral
Nope
twilit orbit
EM4 isnt available
heady olive
oh yea u cant
north dove
lmao pump up those heat numbers right before
mossy zinc
Since you don't need a mirror for 32, the right time is right after unlocking the pact.
muted fossil
the best time to do 32 heat is all the time.
loud coral
"What a pleb, didn't even do max heat second run"
muted fossil
how much do i gotta pay charon to just boat me past 32 heat run
loud coral
Just charm Charon and bring him to Dad
muted fossil
seduce Charon, got it
static plover
double your life savings in obols 😛
muted fossil
does he accept debit?
static plover
not sure, you'll have to ask Charon that
daring hedge
well, patty really doesn't want to show up for literally any of these boonless 45 attempts
i guess someone told him touch of styx dark is a boon
ripe crane
I was thinking "we're gonna see a 45 boonless rama tomorrow"
tidal flame
does he accept debit?
he does, you can borrow money from him
daring hedge
lol, it's hades aspect again
ripe crane
ooo
true fable
not zag aspect? lol
daring hedge
please no
daring hedge
boonless 40 zag spear: you have to not take any tight deadline
loud coral
Zag Spear but you can't special
ripe crane
I am looking at 50 boonless with Hestia and really it doesn't seem like it would be that much different than 42 but soooo much would have to go right
It's like, do I really care that much
ripe crane
Nah still TD3
ripe crane
Just need piercing shot
tidal flame
and some sick geometry to go with that
ripe crane
Might not really be feasible but I'm gonna mess with it. I wanna turn EM3 on instead of more normal spawns but I also have RI3, and I don't think I can survive Asterius with one dash.
Wait I can turn it on instead of RI3
I'm a genius
daring hedge
ah, love for the run to be going great and i get superelite archers for the hades summon
like, boonless that's gonna take a million years to wear down, and with melee? with the extremely short attack interval they have?
basically just a loss as soon as they spawn
tidal flame
and they have armor so you can't stun lock them
daring hedge
exactly, their health isn't so bad, but their armor is massive
and that was the first summon wave, meaning the second probably would have had the same thing but with even more enemies thrown in
no thank you
tidal flame
well it would help if you can force hades to the next phase and auto clear the first wave
but alas
maybe a good feedback here?
tidal flame
well, git gud and don't get hit
daring hedge
i wouldn't say hades aspect is weak, though
its innate ability lends itself well to boonless
heady olive
oh didnt know u were doing hades aspect, thought u were doing zag spear or sth
still boonless chunks ur dmg
mossy zinc
What even are the odds of not seeing Charged Flight once in like 10 runs?
mossy zinc
Ugh RI4 Beowulf DPS is just non-existent.
honest kernel
Welcome to the reason I don't like Beowulf
Relies too much on casts to do anything
Granted, it's not a bad strategy per say, but it's a bit too one-dimensionnal for me
heady olive
cloner is always brutal
heady olive
yea u cant beat them from my experience
i just die
does anyone hv a vid of guan yu at high heat? im struggling with the early bosses
mossy zinc
Does mirrorless work for you? https://www.twitch.tv/videos/800169492?t=2h19m26s
mossy zinc
gl gl 
Oh I timestamped the failed one before the clear lol.
2:32:45 for the actual clear.
bright crescent
anyway the cloner room was in the one s shaped tartarus room with two spike traps
extremely cramped
heady olive
oki
mossy zinc
First wave is always the worst. After that, you can kill the real ones before they can make any clones.
heady olive
i see, u spammed special against meg
guess im playing too aggresive against the bosses
mossy zinc
RI4 with Guan Yu was basically get Charged Skewer or time out lol.
But yeah, you don't need to be so aggressive vs the bosses. Just make sure you don't die.
Acorn isn't the worst choice in Asphodel if Lernie is giving you trouble.
mossy zinc
I also don't like taking FO on Guan Yu.
heady olive
why? u move quite fast with dash attacks and u hv range with ur special
maybe ill try a run without fo
mossy zinc
Way easier to avoid damage without FO.
heady olive
yea i have to get used to choosing between them
im having a really good start rn, charged skewer + deadly flourish + chaos boon for special
gaunt fiber
you went FO2 
gaunt fiber
Heart rend sure is good
The best part being the chunks in bosses hp bars
a delicacy
rain sedge
especially with deadly reversal
btw, is achilles cast with hunting spears good?
does the beyblade get + damage per cast, or per beyblade hit?
mossy zinc
Per Cast.
Some Beowulf tech: if you load your Cast mid-Rush and immediately hold Attack again, you'll do a Dragon Rush without Cast instead of the expected Bull Rush.
tame cedar
You know, if I could make one change to the Pact of Punishment?
I'd make it so Approval Process didn't tell you what boon you're not getting.
There's conditions that are harder on you, but nothing kills your spirit quite like seeing a boon that's key to your build get the chop
edgy arrow
people say that a lot
the psychological trauma is a key part of that pact; if you removed it you’d have to reduce it’s heat cost /s
mossy zinc
AP doesn't kill your spirit. Your attitude towards AP does.
heady olive
close your eyes so you dont see what boon you dont get
mossy zinc
The only solution I can come up with is Heightened Security Guan Yu Lv.1 High Confidence and immediately step on a trap. 
That way you won't have to see what boons you could have gotten.
gaunt fiber
You don't need it to be lv 1 
tame cedar
mossy zinc
@gaunt fiber it needs to be Lv.1 to crush all your remaining spirit.
Then, when you're a zombie, you'll feel nothing when AP crosses out an option.
mossy zinc
Yeah, like RI4.
sly remnant
You dont need AP until 50
mossy zinc
But how do I level up my materia without AP? 
sly remnant
Walk around and get hit with different skills from enemies
edgy arrow
without AP, what would i blame my losses on?
mossy zinc
Your lack of skill?
edgy arrow
she savage but not incorrect
heady olive
omg i keep dash striking against the miniboss in asphodel so i die to the ring of fire thing
wintry sluice
I had the same problem for a while too. Watching the videos on high heat Google sheet helped and then just practice timing really
wintry sluice
What helped a lot in particular is you don't need to use both dashes to run away. You can use 1 dash to get away from it and then dash back in. How far away you are will obviously make that advice valid or not
pastel atlas
Hey what spear do people like to use for high heat? Not speed running, just trying to get victory? The aspect feels obvious for me for the other weapons but for spear I don't know
rain sedge
Hades works well. I did my 32 with it, and with serrated point it does immense damage
you don't need the quick spin hammer
IMO GY is only playable with charged skewer
unreal pasture
GY in hell mode you can legit just instadie from full 😂
loud coral
but...muh phalanx shot
loud coral
Man Serrated Point + Flurry Jab is not a good combo
wintry sluice
Definitely hades aspect
loud coral
Flurry Jab forces an extra stab after the dash-strike and you're basically left open for more than half a second
Had a super good run going too, TD3 wasn't even an issue
daring hedge
yeah, flurry jab interacts really, really well with normal dash-strikes, and serrated pretty much throws it off a ton
it takes some getting used to and can be dangerous, but the damage is good
even on zag aspect
gaunt fiber
I refuse
true fable
flurry jab is just serrated point with no dash nerf lol
daring hedge
kind of lol. the main downsides are that it isn't even available on half the spears, and that it uses up achilles charges very quickly as opposed to serrated, where each dash-strike still just uses one charge
true fable
using up achilles charges is notable but tbh i honestly just kept attacking and didnt notice damage falloff too bad
i get that though
daring hedge
yeah i think that's fair
true fable
not being available on GY or hades sucks but it just feels like serrated does the almost the same thing, but also hits you with a PHAT dash range reduction
ripe crane
If an enemy isn't dead after 4 achilles hits with flurry jab, it should be close enough that I just keep attack anyway
daring hedge
but bosses exist
true fable
special again 
daring hedge
and it's the same boost as hades' punishing sweep, and it's not like everything dies in four hits lol
true fable
yeah i mean ive only had success with flurry jab achilles, which basically melted everything the few runs i had it
i'm not really an achilles player
just a flurry jab abuser
daring hedge
i guess i'm speaking in more of a high heat context though. like, for speedruns, yeah flurry jab slaps and damage isn't really an issue
regardless of charge upkeep
daring hedge
in terms of attack-focused spear, i just prefer hades aspect at high heat because the punishing sweep debuff lasts 8 seconds, which is forever and requires no charge upkeep
and i haven't really delved too much into cast builds
true fable
waiting for retrash to get athena cast lightning phalanx on 50 heat ap2 for an achilles clear
daring hedge
and he'll somehow get that online with AP2, too
i really wish i could ever be half as fortunate with it
honest kernel
Meanwhile I accidentaly get it with RI2 AP1 on my 50 heat clear and take it to maybe sell it later
Only for it to never show up in the purge pool
daring hedge
lol
ripe crane
I'm about to pull a legerdamayn
mossy zinc
I think the skill ceiling for Guan Yu is very high. m not there yet.
It relies a lot on getting Serrated Point or Charged Skewer, though.
I should actually practice more with spin builds, though.
Hades is for sure better.
Achilles maybe, too.
Guan Yu is just more fun for me.
gaunt fiber
Good thing you already know what is the quintessence of spin builds
dim perch
so I just finished the story and got to extreme hades
damn, feels like I'm at the start all over again
getting demolished
honest kernel
So like legit
Talking Lucifer aspect
Is there anything I'm missing on that aspect ? Triple Bomb feels mandatory to make the special useful
And it feels like a worse Eris otherwise
gaunt fiber
50 heat, dodging EM4 tho
daring hedge
50 heat, dodging EM4 tho
please don't make me feel bad about getting 50 on GY at all
honest kernel
With RI2 nonetheless
daring hedge
i just made a pact that worked, and it worked
honest kernel
You start with like what, 25 health ?
true fable
tailesque you dont get to feel bad about this game lol
gaunt fiber
please don't make me feel bad about getting 50 on GY at all
@daring hedge That's not what I meant, I just thought EM4 was necessary
daring hedge
yeah, sometimes RI2 is where i put the last 4 heat rather than EM4
makes the first 90% of the run harder
but you don't have to fret about super dad
honest kernel
Meanwhile I do both RI2 and EM4 lmao
true fable
i had to double take to see how you didnt end up with ME
gaunt fiber
I don't see myself running AP 2 as GY
I mean getting charged skewer is already a gamble
daring hedge
luck was absolutely a factor for this one, to be fair
charged skewer and deadly flourish with AP2 was just really nice
honest kernel
... I just noticed the AP2
No wonder your boons were so limited lmao
Even for a RI2 run
true fable
were you just lobbing rockets from distance
daring hedge
usually dash-strike opener to strip the one DC heart
then dash-strike to special weaving
true fable
also is that second wind i see
daring hedge
common evasion of 10%
true fable
ah ok
gaunt fiber
recorded ?
daring hedge
yeah, vid will be up soon
mossy zinc
@daring hedge congratulations!
daring hedge
haha thank you!
honest kernel
I might be able to get more heat with my setup
mossy zinc
How early did you get Charged Skewer?
daring hedge
How early did you get Charged Skewer?
@mossy zinc very early, like first half of tartarus early lol
gaunt fiber
sad but true
daring hedge
lol
my attempts prior to this... some of them i really tried to make the standard attack work, even with the dash buffering now
it's still really tough to get going there
mossy zinc
I use it here and there. But it's very situational.
daring hedge
yeah
mossy zinc
But I have more use for it now than I used to. So that's cool.
daring hedge
i really like the idea of extending jab + triple jab on GY for an attack build
but triple's spacing is so wide
i wish you could shotgun with it
honest kernel
If only
gaunt fiber
@honest kernel Can I have your opinion about charged shot on Zeus aspect ?
honest kernel
Can't get it
At all
Because it doesn't exist, I have no opinion about it
Oh wait
Mixed the charged special and attack for a sec
In all my high heat attempts, I actually never had a chance to pick it up over the double attack hammer or Empowered Flight
But I'd say for what you want to do with Zeus shield, it could actually be pretty powerful
Instead of bullrushing around like a maniac, you turtle in your opponent's face
Maybe dash away as they attack, throw the special, charge a shot or something for bosses
mossy zinc
Speaking of that, Beowulf has too many hammers.
honest kernel
I could see it being a weird one. Also lol at Beowulf hammers
mossy zinc
All 12 regular shield hammers + Unyielding Defense.
honest kernel
Do you even need any of them when you have a good build going anyways ? Charged Shot is maybe the one you want
hollow lynx
mossy zinc
Charged Shot isn't enough for TD3, either.
Haven't seen Charged Flight yet in Tartarus for my mirrrorless 32 runs.
I keep timing out in Tartarus or Elysium.
That's with JS0 CP0 DC0.
gaunt fiber
Zeus aspect, ez
not even close
40 seconds of TD is tense ngl
it's really ez to deal no damage because you have no clue how to manage the special
Then for higher heat, idk if I would go TD3
honest kernel
That's a lot of levels
north dove
Thinking of trying to go for high heat boonless runs, but since there's no real established rules I thought I'd come up with some unofficial ones
• Must purge all possible boons at the end of each biome.
• Must have no boons on the victory screen.
• Cannot enter Chaos gates.
• Picking up a core boon means you are not allowed to use that button as long as the boon is in that slot. (e.g. dash boon = cannot dash)
• Hammers are fair game.
• Items from the Well of Charon can be used.
• Items offered by Patroclus can be used.
• Companions can be used.
Anything I might be missing?
gaunt fiber
Hades must be killed
loud coral
Sounds about right to me
gaunt fiber
thanks mate
daring hedge
but is bouldy blessing allowed
north dove
Up to you
loud coral
Only allowed if you get Ambiguity, otherwise restart
daring hedge
the hammers being allowed i'm kinda iffy about, but the fact that each run will essentially try to force them upon you, and running AP might mean you either get a worthless one or a really good one... I guess that's okay
gaunt fiber
all possible boons, meaning you have to reroll purge pool to actually sell everything ?
daring hedge
i just think some hammers for some aspects will make it almost too easy
loud coral
If hammers are allowed then Bouldy might be fair game too
formal gust
ok screw nemesis I want to do beowulf 40+
sly remnant
Clearing 50 without hammers.....is very difficult
formal gust
what is the heat record on beo
honest kernel
Before 1.0 it was 53 heat, according to the spreadsheet
sly remnant
Amd I'm speedrunning it at 32
formal gust
charged flight
hollow lynx
the real challenge is boonless with no shackle
sly remnant
Yea i would put on asterisk on that charged flight
formal gust
rip charged flight
daring hedge
honestly hades aspect boonless without shackle wouldn't be so bad lol
formal gust
it deserved it tho
sly remnant
Still impressive of course
mossy zinc
• Must have no boons on the victory screen.
I don't agree with that. That's never what we did. That's just RNG. As long as you don't use any boons, you're fine.
formal gust
seems to me like nobody has bothered to use beo above 40
mossy zinc
• Must purge all possible boons at the end of each biome.
That doesn't need to be a rule. You'll do that anyway to make some money that you can use.
daring hedge
that rule could also just apply to literally any purging pool you come across, including encounter room spawns
it's a little nebulous
formal gust
to make the category still be fun there kinda has to be an asterisk on boonless
mossy zinc
It's not that there aren't any established rules. We just never bothered spelling things out.
north dove
What about stuff like Life Affirmation? Wouldn't being allowed to keep it just make the run significantly easier?
honest kernel
But then it's no longer boonless
formal gust
it never was fully boonless
north dove
Sometimes there's no way around that
mossy zinc
Yeah, if you benefit from any boon in your roon, it's not boonless.
formal gust
fully boonless is just not fun lol
true fable
cin i was trying beo 45 until i got distracted by hera bow
north dove
Not with AP2 
mossy zinc
So you can just take that. If you end up getting some passive boons that you benefit from, it's a failed run, of course.
formal gust
reminds me of that meme of the couple walking and then the guy's looking at another girl
daring hedge
yeah, taking AP2 is typical for high heat boonless, but it can also really lock you into taking a boon that you have to work hard to avoid, or sometimes you have to straight up reset
true fable
do you have to fated auth to roll boon doors?
loud coral
AP2 locking you into something like Premium Vintage sounds like hell
mossy zinc
How is it "typical" for high heat boonless when you're the only one who's done high heat boonless? lol
daring hedge
persuasion, so far for me at least. authority would do nothing for miniboss gates, which is the most prevalent case of an unavoidable boon
okay yeesh, maybe typical wasn't the right word. but i feel like it's kind of a no brainer in terms of building heat and not caring about what you get besides things that apply to your core playstyle
tidal flame
For boonless
true fable
if he's the only one who's done it isn't it typical
mossy zinc
Hmmm.
hollow lynx
love a good boneless run
tidal flame
Or are we doing a different ruleset?
mossy zinc
We could just say always AP0 to ensure you can avoid e.g. Dash boons etc.
static plover
zag needs leg day always skipping skipping leg day with those dashes
hollow lynx
i mean, can't be any worse than thanatos literally floating everywhere :V
mossy zinc
That way it's not +5 heat but you have to reset over and over if things go wrong, or you don't reset over and over but get 5 less heat. Just level playing field for all boonless runs without that problem.
daring hedge
hmm, maybe, yeah. one of the most aggravating things from my high heat boonless runs were ones that were going great and i was forced into a dash boon or attack boon, etc.
resetting the whole thing because of that isn't fun
mossy zinc
Right.
tidal flame
I mean you can always just say sell everything asap
There is no official rule set rn
mossy zinc
Yeah, but if you get an Attack boon chamber 1 and Special boon chamber 3, all you can do is cast lol.
mossy zinc
If you get a Cast boon after that before you can purge, you can reset.
daring hedge
and yeah, if you get nourished soul or premium vintage, according to a theoretical "no boons on victory screen allowed" rule, it'd be null
mossy zinc
There is no official rule set rn
That's what we're discussing right now.
tidal flame
But anyhow, not like I will do boonless any time soon lol
daring hedge
or rare crop
true fable
can rare crop even be offered if you have no boons
tidal flame
Actually can you sell vintage?
daring hedge
like, say rare crop boosted a boon you never used (cast) and sold after a biome, but you have rare crop on the victory screen
true fable
you can't sell vintage iirc but i could be wrong
daring hedge
wouldn't it be a bit harsh to null the run?
true fable
yeah i think it's fine if you arent using boons you get
mossy zinc
Since you never benefited from the boon, it should be fine.
daring hedge
yeah
tidal flame
I'd rather have more relaxed rules for such a niche part of the game
true fable
something like life affirmation doesn't sit right with me though
tidal flame
This is a niche within niche lol
true fable
i agree lol
daring hedge
you're pretty much right, yeah
daring hedge
i don't think such a niche category of challenge runs needs to be so harsh in terms of what counts as a valid run or not. we can leave that to the viewer to decide
gaunt fiber
because it will become the most popular category
true fable
watch out anyheat
tidal flame
Hmm
true fable
boonless high heat runs are gonna take over the speedrun.com LB
anyheat's days in the sun are numbered
tidal flame
Is it speedrun if it's challenge run?
There are like over 200 submissions for any lol
daring hedge
jerds' formation of the 50 heat category certainly raises that question lmao
tidal flame
Top 50 is like sub 8. Yikes
true fable
i love that 50 heat is sorted by speed too lol
daring hedge
yeah, i literally went out and tried to do fast 50 heat with rama simply because it's a category on speedrun dot com
which is, a weird thing to do
tidal flame
Honestly that sub 16 rama run is gonna stay there for a while lol
true fable
your pact setup must have been something
daring hedge
it was almost sub 14 😔
true fable
my pact setup for 32 looked really weird i cant imagine how strange it must be for 50 speed
daring hedge
there wasn't much i could even do to optimize my pact for speed there
formal gust
I think it is
daring hedge
i had JS2 instead of 3 i guess
formal gust
assuming they reach the donation goal
iirc it's a 3 weapons any heat race, vorime vs haelian
tidal flame
assuming they reach the donation goal
Wait, where can people donate?
formal gust
idk the specifics
tidal flame
Ah ok. Better to ask the speedrun Discord ig
gaunt fiber
during gdq as bonus game, no ?
formal gust
bonus game
patent onyx
Hey I'm in the middle of a 32 heat run and I have a question I hope someone can help me answer
So I am using stubborn defiance, I got through ellesium using skellies tooth, and after using it I got an Athena boon to give me another DD, then later I got another Athena DD after using a stubborn defiance in a room, so currently I have 2 DDs and one stubborn defiance. If I remove the skelly keepsake will one of the Athena DDs be removed?
tidal flame
Never been in that scenario but i think you are fine taking it off.
Do update us if you figure it out though
patent onyx
Just did it, looks like I lost the stubborn defiance, but I should get it back when I start my next room
Yep it came back! Thanks for the help!
tidal flame
Thanks for the info.
gaunt fiber
note it
patent onyx
Just got my first 32 heat thanks to that advice guys, thanks!
gaunt fiber
nope you got it all alone
tidal flame
it was mostly you lmao
gaunt fiber
Congrats buddy
tidal flame
but congrats!
mossy zinc
m taking all the credit for your 32.
tidal flame
swoosh capes
patent onyx
Haha guys thanks. Ill post the pic for you but it's on my switch so it's gonna look ugly
gaunt fiber
we'll act like it's fine don't worry
mossy zinc
My job here is done.
patent onyx
Nvm I just joined so I don't have permission to attach files it looks like
mossy zinc
You can post images in #h1-victory-boasting.
cerulean frigate
it has to go in #h1-victory-boasting
patent onyx
Oh ok thanks
mossy zinc
Linking images works in this here channel, though.
ripe crane
Resetting when being forced to take attack/dash is the reason I used AP1 for boonless
Even that was annoying
Chaos seems fine as long as it's nothing that affect the game. Which would mainly only be the extra gems/darkness ones, or boon rarity I guess?
Also if you get a 3+ sack you're gonna have a boon on the end screen. As long as it doesn't affect anything/you don't use it that seems fine
trim sigil
Extra darkness with dark regen goes brrrr
ripe crane
LC4 goes rrrrb
trim sigil
Fair, fair
dire steppe
how far can you go on 63 heat
tidal flame
about chamber 12 to 14, never really tested that theory but that's my approx estimate of how far i can go with 50 hp lol
loud coral
63 heat is free if you’re good enough
tidal flame
TAS plays Hades?
loud coral
Just make a new save and program the TAS only for one specific seed
IIRC boon choices and AP choices are still randomized so uh
formal gust
what pact do you recommend for beo 40
sly remnant
How good are you versus the inverse how much are you willing to grind
true fable
i don't like DC2
but other than that just the usual suspects is fine
I don't actually mind HL that much because shield block
sly remnant
Playing HL5 is what makes you good at the game
Should always have it on for anything above 20
Unless you just want to get 32 and get out
formal gust
I'm stuck at like 33-35
sly remnant
I will say EM4 Beo is probably the easiest EM4 there is
true fable
CP also makes heroes fight suuuuuuuck
when you summon for 1/8 of asterius health bar
very cool
formal gust
I'm gonna be honest I have never done em4
sly remnant
If there's a weapon to do it on its Beo
true fable
beo makes boss fights very uninteractive but with CP2 it is sometimes difficult to phase
sly remnant
You'll be phasing him if you build right
loud coral
Should always have it on for anything above 20
I’ve actually just now started using HL5 for 45 heat
sly remnant
I think my 40 beo was HL5 LC4 JS1 EM4 BP2 MM DC1 TD3
I'd have to look but it was something like that
true fable
UC?
edgy arrow
this was mine:
true fable
i know it does
edgy arrow
actually much more consistent in my experience
true fable
i am just physically repulsed by it
gaunt fiber
I thought beo was dio only
sly remnant
Its not about consistency
true fable
i am just biased for no good reasons
true fable
^
edgy arrow
lol
true fable
why would i want to win when i can do 9k damage
sly remnant
When I did my 40 heat
edgy arrow
if i want that i use arthur
sly remnant
Dad was on his knees in a protective bubble
For 75% of the fight
Also don't be afraid of erebus gates on beo
Legit got a 13:11 on 32 beo this afternoon by risking an elysium erebus for bad news
true fable
tbh i am always a fan of erebus for what you want when time isnt a factor
sly remnant
On beo? Elysium is super safe
edgy arrow
but if you have a chance at bad news that might be the exception
it’s not about danger, it’s about speed
sly remnant
Enemies can't hit you if they are dead
true fable
edgy arrow
idk most people prolly run faster than me anyway
lol just quoted myself somehow
should pay attention to what buttons i’m pressing
sly remnant
Beo is very fast
edgy arrow
agreed
sly remnant
Suggest watching wriste or duunko for how to play it
edgy arrow
honestly it actually is kinda about danger as well; there’s a lot of ways an elysium erebus gate can screw you
sly remnant
I'd plug my own stream but I still have a long way to go
true fable
after i get sub 10 all weps my goal is to beat beo warlord ellomenop's 32 heat time
edgy arrow
neither wriste nor duunko have 40+ clears with it atm
sly remnant
Don't need that for going fast
The mechanics of a speedrun and high heat are very similar
sly remnant
If you want to see some 32 I was streaming it this afternoon. Twitch is same as my discord.
sly remnant
My fastest is 13:11. Hoping to do better tomorrow
edgy arrow
you should submit to the 32 heat speedrunning leaderboard
sly remnant
I want something sub 12 before I submit
true fable
i got a little over 12 but imo speedrunning 32 heat is less about gameplay than it is about pacts
edgy arrow
there aren’t enough people faster than me, which is a travesty
sly remnant
My 13:11 woulda been sub 12 but I got 4 sacked
true fable
oof
picking the right pacts leads to a PoP that is basically almost no different from a regular speedrun
edgy arrow
i think my record is 13:25
sly remnant
Eh
edgy arrow
didn’t get 4 sacked, did get tiny vermin
sly remnant
You gotta take HL5 and LC4
sly remnant
That makes things a lot less aggressive
true fable
similar concept
edgy arrow
basically everyone is taking BP as well
sly remnant
Where do you put the other 2 heat?
edgy arrow
that slows you down sometimes
true fable
i think BP2 is the main thing slowing me down yeah
true fable
i also take EM3 but have been debating on like HL5 with maybe 1 point somewhere else
but i've run out of points
edgy arrow
that HL5 FO2 combo can be scary, and i feel like i’d need to play a bit more defensively
sly remnant
HL5 LC4 EM3 BP1 MM HS FO2 TD3
edgy arrow
yeah i avoid CF for sure
sly remnant
I think that's my setup
true fable
yeah i don't have HS on i think that's the difference for me
i have HS off and BP2 on
there's the two points
true fable
lol
edgy arrow
yeah and LC4 slows you down as well
true fable
i would do HS if i werent on KBM
edgy arrow
makes high confidence not really do much
sly remnant
I'm on KBM
true fable
yeah im not a fan of HS on kbm lol
sly remnant
I think there's a decent chance that 32 beo runs are actually supposed to drop LC4 for EM4 and run High Confidence
edgy arrow
no way lol
true fable
EM4 takes sooo long
edgy arrow
i can see dropping LC4, but EM4 takes a million years
sly remnant
With beo?
true fable
at least with fiery presence you still get a fast tart
edgy arrow
absolutely even with beo
true fable
i dont think the high confidence boost is enough to make up the time lost
edgy arrow
it’s faster and easier with beo, but it still takes much longer
sly remnant
Idk I'm not good enough to test my theory
But if there was a weapon that could do it
It would be beo
true fable
i might try it for fun and see how it is but its hard to separate RNG from skill in this game once you reach a certain point in both
until it's optimized
which 32 heat speed certainly is not
edgy arrow
i can’t beat EM4 with any reliability, even with beo, but i’ve played it enough to know that it’s just longer
sly remnant
Oh its def longer
edgy arrow
there might be another setup that lets you drop EM4 tho
sly remnant
I'm not arguing that
edgy arrow
yeah but like, a bunch longer
sly remnant
(Also HS helps you die faster in asphodel to heal from SD)
true fable
the only reason why i would take EM4 is if I could somehow also drop BP entirely at the same time
edgy arrow
that might work
you can luck into good BP combos tho
can’t luck into not having another phase of dad
sly remnant
I rhink the only time it is worth it is if it lets you run HC
true fable
i think you're overrating HC but i'm also not a HC gamer on high heat
sly remnant
I've used it to limited success on super soaker
true fable
tbh i think super soaker is a corner case
where your damage is simply too pitiful not to run HC
LOL
sly remnant
If i ever get good enough to test my theory ill let you know
Wouldn't hold my breath tho
ripe crane
What weapon are we talking about? What is HC?
sly remnant
Beowulf. HC = High Confidence
The no extra starting health and +25% damage while above 80% hp
edgy arrow
so i just checked an ellomenop’s 32 used DDs and LC3 lol
must be a disciple of Wobbles
oh wait he didn’t have HC regardless
misty hamlet
:T look
edgy arrow
not judging lol
misty hamlet
em4 hades
edgy arrow
it’s clearly working for you
misty hamlet
eats me up
it is 😄 though
after i'm done with 45s I'm gonna have to get on the SD train because I play too slow to preserve the DDs
sly remnant
YOU DO 45S WITH DD?????
true fable
wobbles is a giga gamer dont you know
sly remnant
Legit impressive
misty hamlet
true fable
waiting for a lightning phalanx that never came
sly remnant
I see three armored witches in 2 rooms and die once in each room
misty hamlet
@true fable it came at the same time as seastorm
sly remnant
Impressive as hell dude
misty hamlet
and never returned 😦
misty hamlet
yeah out of spite mostly
edgy arrow
he’s done like a million 45s with it as well
sly remnant
Sea storm helps with hades more
true fable
LOL
misty hamlet
don't get me wrong i sink a lot of money into buying back lives
true fable
i must say this string of 45s is not more impressive than your evo run but it's close
misty hamlet
lol
my big issue really is there's a couple rooms and fights that I struggle heavily in
true fable
yep i feel that
true fable
sometimes i'll walk into a room in elysium, see a bunch of superelite archers with speeder slugger
misty hamlet
if i'm not allowed to die twice in them I don't win lol
true fable
and just go make a cup of tea
true fable
i swear the SGG machine learning algorithm keeps track of which ones you die to the most
misty hamlet
haha teleporting armored chariots
true fable
big fan of the teleporting speeder flamewheels
edgy arrow
and chariots with speeder lol
true fable
not hard just annoying
edgy arrow
+90% speed
daring hedge
@misty hamlet woah very nice, you could've even done TD3 with that time
tidal flame
ugh 50 heat on fists is getting frustrating
misty hamlet
wait @daring hedge really
tidal flame
5 runs in a row without lightning strike
daring hedge
yeah, TD3 is essentially 20m overall
edgy arrow
oh yeah easy
tidal flame
barely made time in tartarus
edgy arrow
with time to spare
misty hamlet
WHAT that was 30 seconds slower than my fastest stygius run
true fable
@tidal flame you're not starting with signet?
tidal flame
i am
misty hamlet
which would have been a cheesy nemesis run in the 30s
true fable
@tidal flame that's an AP2 vibe
tidal flame
AP1 lmao
true fable
that's just unlucky
tidal flame
zeus never shows up twice
no mirror roll
etc etc you know the drill
im getting sick of the grind
fml
edgy arrow
just kill yourself if you miss lightning strike
tidal flame
?
misty hamlet
I spend a lot of money
ripe crane
O true if you're buying DDs
edgy arrow
CF2 hurts the DD buy backs big time
daring hedge
i didn't notice no CF wow, yeah that's interesting
you probably could do 50 with it after (forcibly) cutting your spending
true fable
the priv stat too
misty hamlet
0 CF is so I can buy lots of dummy boons for UC and also for DD spending
true fable
the DD LC4 combo is already super impressive
misty hamlet
so like I said, SD will probably be the way soon
tidal flame
0 CF is so I can buy lots of dummy boons for UC and also for DD spending
are people actually getting good boons from rooms?
misty hamlet
@tidal flame sometimes
daring hedge
yeah, you're one of the only players i've seen still using DD at 45+
edgy arrow
^
ripe crane
The alternative to lots of dummy boons is 2 real boons and one junk one to sell in tartarus so you always get the junk one as an option, then after tartarus you will get enough naturally to just sell some garbage.
true fable
have there been others
tidal flame
never seen one until now
daring hedge
lol, maybe the only one i've seen then
sly remnant
Like I said its effin impressive
misty hamlet
💪
sly remnant
I'll take my SD dying to armored witches and then die dashing to the door in asphodel instead tho
misty hamlet
i think it's as much a good tribute to the game that there are a lot of arrangements that can work even this high up
daring hedge
yeah, i've always been a fan of supergiant's modular difficulty settings in pretty much all their games
true fable
i need to finish transistor
have been stuck in hades for so long at this point
i wasnt aware there were modular difficulty settings in transistor thouh
tidal flame
there is
daring hedge
yeah, limiters
true fable
mmm ok maybe i havent got there
daring hedge
bonus xp in exchange for negative effects or harder enemies etc.
tidal flame
it has been a while since I last played transistor but there are chips that modifies enemies behaviour and stuff
yeah
edgy arrow
in transistor i just leave them all on as i get them
hollow lynx
not as modular as hades but still modular
edgy arrow
they aren’t really modular then lol
tidal flame
p sure that kind of difficulty scaling exists in every SGG games
daring hedge
right, maybe not the best word for it
true fable
yeah it was def there in bastion and i havent played pyre
daring hedge
but you know what i mean
hollow lynx
hades really broke the innovative barrier by making the difficulty modifiers themselves also modular
instead of bastion through pyre forcing the full effect on you when you turn it on
sly remnant
I mean transistors modifiers are easy
edgy arrow
truth
peak oyster
Pyre is great, its my baby of SGG
i just wish it was easier to recommend cuz steep learning curve
sly remnant
I played a lot of pyre. Wish it got more love
But uh....my playtime on hades far outstrips it now
peak oyster
Green dudes?