h1-high-heat-strategies

[rain sedge]

and I'm too lazy to try

[honest kernel]

And Artemis special on Zeus aspect of shield is definitely worth exploring

Heart Rend and Splitting Headache. Those two builds are the main ones I might experiment more with

And see how they compare to Merciful End

[true fable]

zeus special?

[honest kernel]

Zeus special is all Artemis

[true fable]

is zeus on special not as good an idea as it seems

[honest kernel]

It's fine

But Artemis I found scales better with poms

With Zeus, if you can get stuff like Double Strike and the Legendary, might outmatch it

With RI2 and AP1 ? Good luck

Duos are hard enough to find as is

Zeus basically doubles your damage output from the getgo

Assuming common rarity boon

Artemis adds like +60%

With a +20 % chance to crit

Poms give the Artemis special like +17 % at first with a sligth downfall

Takes like 5 levels to go around +10%

For Artemis DPS ? Might as well be triple that ammount

Meanwhile Zeus special gets like +12 from the start, which is around +36 %, but then falls off quickly

If you can invest more poms into Artemis, she'll get the edge

All of that, without mentionning that global damage buffs like Ferocious Guard works a bit better with crits

But the big thing that Artemis gets that works REALLY well with Zeus aspect that Zeus boons wont offer, is Hunter's Mark

With Zeus aspect of Shield, you crit often, and for big chunks of damage

Helps for rooms and for Hydra/Theseus and Asterius

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah I tried it a bit earlier, tons of fun

[honest kernel]

And also, the duos

Artemis opens up Deadly Reversal, Splitting Headache and Heart Rend

Zeus opens what that helps the special ? The duos you get are for other stuff

And no, Cold Fusion doesn't count

Since you'll want to stick to bosses and enemies anyways

[true fable]

yeah i was thinking that zeus is a bit too reliant on t2 boons compared to artemis stuff

[gaunt fiber]

I'm sorry I broke your monologue

[honest kernel]

It's all cool

LOL

[gaunt fiber]

I can delete if necessary

[honest kernel]

It's fine as is

[gaunt fiber]

nice

[cinder cave]

I think you should delete. Do we get votes here? I vote uninterrupted monologue

[honest kernel]

Sir, this is not the #feedback channel

[cinder cave]

[gaunt fiber]

1 for, 1 against

[honest kernel]

leave it as is. Than would do that

It IS a tie

[cinder cave]

democracy at its finest

foiled by equal numbers

[honest kernel]

I do want to re-mention my statement about Dio attack on non-beo shield

Non-beo shield attacks pretty darn fast

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah it seems interesting, you made me want to try it

I was sold for artemis special on zeus, but I only considered athena's attack

[honest kernel]

Athena attack is pretty solid for shield

[daring hedge]

Pushing out aspects that aren't meta is HARD
But why would Rama be considered 50+ meta when me and ledger are the two people who even run it there

[true fable]

LOOOOL let's go

[honest kernel]

Technically the most efficient if it's the only one

[true fable]

ive never known what to put on attack for non-beo shields so this is good info

[honest kernel]

Aphrodite and Artemis are ok for damage

[tidal flame]

I think it's a matter of personal preferences

[honest kernel]

^

Honestly this

[tidal flame]

who would have thunk Hades can do 50 heat

[honest kernel]

... oh

Wrong context

[tidal flame]

I mean in your context it also works xD

[honest kernel]

Anyways, Shield attack is kinda all over the place for what you can do. Aphrodite and Artemis for attack for extra damage can do work

[daring hedge]

Or zag spear through sheer willpower

[honest kernel]

Stacking Hanghover and Chill is pretty great too

Since you can also spread it around with the Bull Rush

[true fable]

what's the highest that's been done for hera

i dont see anything on the spreadsheet

baj do you PS

[honest kernel]

Also zeus attack works well if you have a good jolted

[tidal flame]

That said, I would eat a sock if Zag Sword becomes meta in 50+

[honest kernel]

wait, PS ?

[tidal flame]

note: meta, not just a random successful run

[true fable]

privileged status

[gaunt fiber]

The spreedsheet is like guinness book ?

[honest kernel]

RI2

So no

[true fable]

the spreadsheet is just any recorded 40+ unseeded i believe

[honest kernel]

But I'd take Family Favorite, since I start Artemis Special

[tidal flame]

The spreedsheet is like guinness book ?
sure, good way to look at it

[true fable]

keep forgetting about RI2 lol

jerds was asking for more submissions

[daring hedge]

Yeah there pretty much isn't a 50+ meta lol, I'm a weird outlier who does Rama a lot because I like it, but i run other stuff too

[honest kernel]

My 42 heat run that I posted earlier is technically unverifiable, since it was the first run of my session lol

[daring hedge]

Like the terrible zag spear

[honest kernel]

But the 50 heat one should be

[true fable]

or the chad hades spear

[gaunt fiber]

I don't see any Guan Yu

[honest kernel]

Once I get around doing the editing

[tidal flame]

50 heat without EM4 means you need to take at least RI2, or full JS3 CP2 combo.

or, god forbids, AP2

it's pain territory

[gaunt fiber]

JS3 CP2 TD3

[daring hedge]

You can do RI4 TD3 and avoid CP entirely, as well as AP2

[honest kernel]

NO

[tidal flame]

that's what I have been attempting so far with Dem fists

[honest kernel]

Please don't

NO JS3 CP2 TD3

[trim sigil]

Imagine if there was a weapon that could actually bear ap2 without melting your brain

[tidal flame]

but I might just take the RI2 so I can skip some JS CP points

yikes

[honest kernel]

That's what I did lol

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah would do the same

[tidal flame]

idk man, I feel so flimsy at 50 health

a slight breeze would kill me xD

[daring hedge]

JS3 CP2 TD3 :ThisIsFine:
I mean... I have to do this where my record stands

[honest kernel]

Expect some random deaths here and there

[true fable]

i feel like i take JS3 CP2 too readily

[honest kernel]

Looking at you, cloner speeder witches of Tartarus

[true fable]

i've taken it basically every run past 32 heat

which is probably a bad idea

[tidal flame]

I mean... I have to do this where my record stands
@daring hedge yeah but for Dem Fists you took RI2

[gaunt fiber]

well without TD3 I guess it's ok

[honest kernel]

Depends on what TD you run

TD2 could get away with it to some degree

[true fable]

i've been taking TD3 since 32 heat too 😅

[tidal flame]

Depends on what TD you run
@honest kernel do you have a choice at 50 heat?

[daring hedge]

Yeah I mean in terms of Rama fox

[honest kernel]

I considered TD2 at some point

[true fable]

it's 50 50 whether i make it out of tartarus either it happens or it doesn't

[tidal flame]

oh yeah

[honest kernel]

Went with TD3 to see if I could still do somewhat decently fast with Zeus aspect

[tidal flame]

it's always 50/50

[honest kernel]

The right move was most likely TD2

Since even with some amount of JS and CP, Zeus shield does fine

[tidal flame]

just do max heat except TD with shield

it's turtle all the way down

[true fable]

i feel like i'd take TD3 before DC2 on beowulf

not sure

[trim sigil]

Ultimate 57 heat recipe 🤔

[honest kernel]

You are going to need to be on your a-game for a solid while lmao

50 health no death defy

[gaunt fiber]

Baj

did you upload some Zeus runs ?

[trim sigil]

Don't need health if you block everything

[daring hedge]

Love to pray for Hermes dashes with RI3

[honest kernel]

I'm winding down still

I did upload a 42 heat one

Like earlier this week

[gaunt fiber]

I would like to see how you manage the shield's position

I'll check it then

[honest kernel]

I do it better on my 50 heat run, but the 42 one should be enough. I think

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah ofc

[honest kernel]

I'm still a goof when it comes to the game

[true fable]

can you post the 50 in self promo when it's up?

[honest kernel]

T'was te plan

@gaunt fiber https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/505164873328754688/775114789973786664

[gaunt fiber]

Thanks !

[tidal flame]

wait do we have a new successful 50?

[honest kernel]

That's the 42 heat one

I do

[tidal flame]

nice!

[true fable]

baj just did zeus shield

[honest kernel]

I did 50 ehat Zeus aspect of shield

Posted in the victory boasting channel

[true fable]

i can never get over how long hades content vids are

not a criticism just a statement of fact

[honest kernel]

Still need to edit the video because it's a 3 hours and a half mess of messed up attempts

And thrown winnable runs

@tidal flame https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/776794758336086037

[tidal flame]

look into avidemux if you want easy cut

without re encoding the files

[honest kernel]

Thanks for the info, Nya told me the same

[tidal flame]

ok

good luck!

[honest kernel]

Add to remux the file anyways

Since I record in mkv

Don't want OBS to mess up the file when I'm doing hours and hours of recording on end

with mp4 from the start

[gaunt fiber]

mkv is better than mp4 ?

[honest kernel]

the deal here is that mkv is less prone to corruption

Say OBS crashes, or something else of that nature happens, the mkv file is still usable

MP4 ? not so much

But you need the MP4 format to edit videos

so I record in MKV and remux it to mp4

[gaunt fiber]

damn

[honest kernel]

It's the TL;DR of it

[tidal flame]

yeah record in mkv, use avidemux for quick cuts, resolve for editing

[gaunt fiber]

I see, thanks

[cinder cave]

It's the TL;DR of it
@honest kernel No uninterrupted monologue this time?

[true fable]

me: recording on my laptop that can't run obs with xbox game bar

[honest kernel]

Sorry

I tend to just mash the button for dialogues

the 50 heat run is the same

[daring hedge]

No worries, we all do that too lol

[honest kernel]

I saw a bit of Nya playing, and they don't from what I saw

so 🤷‍♂️

[daring hedge]

Well, okay

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah, viewer comes first

[honest kernel]

Either way, I skip the dialogues

Unless I need to stretch my hands or something like that

[tidal flame]

Nowadays I let them finish the first sentence

works surprisingly well for context, too

[daring hedge]

I mean it's pretty normal, even Amir and Greg comment on how players are prone to do it for high heat or speedruns in order to keep some "flow" if they have a certain momentum

[honest kernel]

That's 100% why I skip it lol

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah I heard that today

[true fable]

yeah they said that watching vorime LOL

[honest kernel]

The moment I wind down is the moment I become aware of what I do, start to think more, and therefore slow down

[gaunt fiber]

exactly

[true fable]

"here's the special case dialogue if you make it to hades first try.. oh nevermind"

[gaunt fiber]

wait

There is no dialogue for this

I asked Vorime

[tidal flame]

[trim sigil]

From those cut phrases I managed to see when watching, I presumed they just skip the first interaction in favor of later ones

[true fable]

there isn't i've gotten that dialogue before

[daring hedge]

I accidentally skipped the first part of meg's dialogue referencing my total lack of mirror in my mirrorless 40

[true fable]

LOL

[daring hedge]

I'm just so used to there being nothing new

[true fable]

i think they just took out references to past attempts in the normal dialogue

[honest kernel]

I still have dialogue here and there

My main save file isn't quite as extensive, especially with 1.0 stuff

[tidal flame]

Meg still asks Zag to the bedroom now and then 😊

[gaunt fiber]

I do too, when I suicide or die randomly earlier than usual

Hypnos saying that I did not even try when I just embraced the spike way

[cerulean frigate]

turn down Meg and Than ez

[true fable]

is it appropriate to just dusa hot takes in builds n combat

[daring hedge]

Yes

I've had to dusa someone saying Rama power shots were bad before

It's valid

[gaunt fiber]

I was told not to power shot with Rama too

[true fable]

the only downside of rush delivery is it means you probably wont get extra dashes

literally only downside

[honest kernel]

TBH, it probably was a bit more valid before the 1.0 buff

Since it was slower

But now ? It's super worth

[daring hedge]

This take came after 1.0, though

[true fable]

but yeah special only with rama is the most dusa-able take i've seen so far

[gaunt fiber]

And I splendidly answered "tf is rama dude ?"

[cinder cave]

imo rush delivery's potential is super good

[honest kernel]

Probably came from someone that didn't know the buff happened 🤷‍♂️

[cinder cave]

it's + damage to everything right

[true fable]

+100% global damage based on move speed

[daring hedge]

They did and had played Rama post 1.0 lol

[honest kernel]

...

[true fable]

which is 100% with hyper sprint

[honest kernel]

Welp

I tried

[cinder cave]

how is unconditional eris not a good thing

If Eris is good, how can Rush Delivery+ Hyper Sprint be bad

[honest kernel]

It's insane enough, even at common, to carry me through a non-athena run on 50 heat all the way to Hades

[true fable]

to be fair you have to have a very high IQ to understand rama gameplay

[honest kernel]

Damage's nutty

[cinder cave]

I've had to dusa someone saying Rama power shots were bad before
This is why I prefer to chat in new players

Their problems are much more quaint like

not being able to dash strike on bow or

how do I unlock this

[daring hedge]

Lol

[cinder cave]

in builds channel there's just quite a few comments

[gaunt fiber]

But usually with Nyaanyaa the warden so it's fine

[true fable]

why do i struggle

we need nyaanyaa to lay down the law and tell nerds why tempest strike is bad

[cerulean frigate]

rama attack is trash, you should just go deadly flourish special spam

[gaunt fiber]

it's suprisingly good on GY tbh

[cerulean frigate]

i couldn't type that with a straight face lol

[gaunt fiber]

Fixed just so I don't get sued

[cinder cave]

Damn I was just filing the litigation papers

We'll let you off the hook

this time

[gaunt fiber]

phew

what a relief

[sly remnant]

man i was watching cohh yesterday because no one was streaming

and he went doom special on rama and never used his normal attack

i lasted like 45 seconds before i just turned on a vtuber

[honest kernel]

TBH that's most peeps that play the game casually

[tidal flame]

yeah, that's why I rarely watch first time/blind playthrough

[honest kernel]

Game's got quite the audience for it's genre

[tidal flame]

the inner backseat gammer in me is too strong xD

[honest kernel]

I legit know what you feel

[cinder cave]

lel

best way to solve that, is to watch the play with a student

so you can coach them and provide relief for your inner backseat gamer

and explain how all of their decisions are 3/10

[tidal flame]

i love watching my friend playing Darkest Dungeon and his suffering xD

[true fable]

the real move is to watch your own vods

and explain how your decisions are still 3/10

[honest kernel]

^ too real

[cinder cave]

shameless self promotion I see

xD

[tidal flame]

self own best own

[cinder cave]

Tbh the main thing I noticed with high heat

is just how much it was highlighting my mistakes

I really felt like I threw my third 32 run by just

equipping the wrong keepsake in act 4

and screwing up the first 5 attacks in Hades fight by not respecting FO1

[tidal flame]

I think 75% of my mistakes are being too hasty, not dodging/tanking damage for TD sake.

The rest probably includes misinput, dashing into traps.

[true fable]

mine are at least easy to find

like when i took miniboss in my 40 beo instead of patty

pain

[tidal flame]

[true fable]

moving too fast for thoughts

[wintry sluice]

dashing into traps

man, that's been one of the hardest things for me to improve on

[honest kernel]

I could definitely improve my minibosses

[tidal flame]

https://imgur.com/m7QpbiK

[honest kernel]

Blood and Darkness

That's kinda me with Zeus shield lmao

[tidal flame]

well you made 50 heat

great work

[honest kernel]

Nevermind the near 11 hours of me either dying to BP2 hyper rooms in Tartarus, to Lernie because I was 3-4 shot trying to go fast and getting bonked by the rammers, or get timed out in Styx/Die to Hades

Which, TBH is actually kinda not that many attempts

For what I expected

[daring hedge]

oh right i forgot to even say congrats for zeus aspect 50, congrats!

awesome to see more aspects get up there

[tidal flame]

Everyone asks what's the high heat record. No one ever asks how's the high heat record holder...

[upper edge]

Y'all seen Tailesque's 40 heat RI4 run?

What a madlad

[tidal flame]

yup

[honest kernel]

I've seen the W screenshot, but not the run itself

I'll get to clipping my 50 heat run first, assuming I don't pass out from exhaustion

[daring hedge]

that better be a friendly bouldy react

[honest kernel]

It is

[true fable]

arent all bouldy reacts friendly

[daring hedge]

i've seen it used to express disbelief before

it can be, how you say, ambiguous

[tidal flame]

just curious, what's your success to total runs ratio on high heat? it took me like 20ish attempts to get my 42 Hestia and 25ish for 46 dem fists.

but that's not including countless resets half way through

[honest kernel]

I kind of had win-streaks at 40 heat with Zeus aspect lmao

[tidal flame]

nice!

[honest kernel]

That's why I jumped to 42, then 50 straight away

The jump was super rough

Especially since I am stubborn with TD3

[tidal flame]

yeah would love to see how you handled TD3 with (I assume) some JS or CP.

[honest kernel]

no JS or CP with Zeus aspect

I tried before, Hades got me everytime with the timer

So instead I went the RI2 AP1 route

Was a bit better, especially with Artemis special

[tidal flame]

oh you went EM4 then

guess I can just look at the victory screenshot xD

anyhow, looking forward to the vid 😄

[honest kernel]

I'm on it, will be back with updates

[misty hamlet]

Regarding ratios, I got a 39 streak at 32 heat rotating through every aspect. I found a pact punishment that I found comfy for that.

But now I’m like 1 for 20 doing 45 heat and just trying to get through weapons D:

[true fable]

it's fine you're doing zag bow

we all understand

[misty hamlet]

I see a big number every now and then and I think “this aspect is great what are people talking about”

[tidal flame]

I like big crits and I cannot lie?

[misty hamlet]

Then I fight a cluster of Speed-up Savior shieldbearers in elysium and I just wanna

Cry forever

[true fable]

how do you build it? just artemis attack and hope for the best?

[misty hamlet]

That’s what I was doing but it hasn’t done very well

[cinder cave]

I like big crits and I cannot lie?
@tidal flame I would watch this video. Please make this.

[misty hamlet]

I’m trying aphro attack right now

I also balanced my heat setup by doing DC 1 so I can special once and clear the shields at low time cost

Gonna see how it plays out

[sly remnant]

so interesting beo interaction i learned

if you release your shield charge at the moment lernie pops your SD on lava your dead body flings itself at lernie and pops the flare

[true fable]

LUL

big if true

pushing the beo meta as always tyler

[sly remnant]

it was just fun to watch

saved like 1 second since the game was slowed when lernie died

[true fable]

ive gotten stuff like that with revenge kills as i lose SD

[sly remnant]

yea i've done with heaven's vengeance before but i've never watched my dead body fling itself across the arena to explode a trippy flare

[cinder cave]

if you release your shield charge at the moment lernie pops your SD on lava your dead body flings itself at lernie and pops the flare
@sly remnant do you record please say you have a clip xD

[sly remnant]

lol unfortunately i'm just practicing before stream tonight

[misty hamlet]

well, first try with a different pact/start setup and I got my Zag bow 45

I always underestimate just how much of an impact DC has on certain weapons

[prime cairn]

Hey IC Wobbles!

[honest kernel]

News on the video, it’s exporting the clip

Should be uploading soon

Also, very nice, Wobbles

[misty hamlet]

@prime cairn

[ripe crane]

Oh snap we got a 50 Zeus 👀

[daring hedge]

zag spear 50 is up now

[wintry sluice]

nicely done peeps

[ripe crane]

Y'all crazy

[wintry sluice]

i just started messing around with zeus aspect....it's a very different play style. will be really interested in watching that video

[honest kernel]

Watching the run again, I definitely learned a thing or two on the way

Compared to the 42 heat run I uploaded earlier

Also the 50 heat one's uploading currently

[cerulean frigate]

zag spear 50 heat? isn't that just a worse Hades aspect 50 heat run

[honest kernel]

Kinda

[daring hedge]

extremely

[upper edge]

How hard did you have to lean on hammers

[daring hedge]

the one perk was that i ended up being able to spam exploding launcher specials at a ridiculous rate, with epic hermes special speed

[cinder cave]

how what why

[daring hedge]

absolute yeet machine

[upper edge]

Welp guess that answers my question

[daring hedge]

but still hit like a pool noodle

[wintry sluice]

i want to see a heat 50 zag spear clear without exploding launcher

[cinder cave]

That's the zag spear wr right

[daring hedge]

i have that from blood price @wintry sluice

[cerulean frigate]

tbh even 150% Hades deadly flourish exploding launcher w/ heart rend doesn't hit that hard

[wintry sluice]

sorry i mistyped

[cerulean frigate]

it hits hard enough

[wintry sluice]

zag spear*

[daring hedge]

ah

[cerulean frigate]

but not really looking at the big chonks there

[daring hedge]

tbh even 150% Hades deadly flourish exploding launcher w/ heart rend doesn't hit that hard
@cerulean frigate yeah, exploding launcher even on hades aspect is weirdly underwhelming a lot of the time in terms of damage output

[cerulean frigate]

it gets there with charged skewer kinda but you are a lot slower on the rate of specials

[wintry sluice]

i imagine the dps is lower with charged skewer even with artemis crits

[cerulean frigate]

spear base damage is just really low

you get around that on guan yu but you give up half your HP for it and a much worse attack combo

[daring hedge]

during a couple attempts prior to the successful one, i found that chain skewer is actually really, really good for normal encounter rooms

but of course then you still have no damage for bosses

and hades aspect would do it better, too

[cerulean frigate]

chain would be significantly better imo if the # of bounces was like 3 or 4 but could hit the same target up to 2 times

[honest kernel]

Haelien's current heat 50 Zag spear is a bit similar to how my heat 50 Zeus shield went lmao

Artemis special damage abuse ? Check. Athena abuse ? Check. Plenty of death defiances ? Check.

But his is even more insane lmao

[cerulean frigate]

that's just standard for any 40+ run involving weapon aspects that want % boons really

[honest kernel]

Fair enough

[daring hedge]

it's too bad he modded to force exploding launcher

[honest kernel]

Yeah

Would have been a valid run otherwise

[true fable]

can i ask yall a bit of a philosophical q

does it really matter

if otherwise you just reset to get exploding launcher

[cerulean frigate]

idk, if the goal is just practice and/or testing how it feels, whatever. besides, are you really gonna try to force a run all the way to the end on spear when your first hammers are triple jab, vicious skewer and crossed off serrated point

[mossy zinc]

It does matter because it would just move the meta towards seeded again.

[honest kernel]

^

[mossy zinc]

Keep seeded and unseeded separate.

[cerulean frigate]

im not contesting that

im just saying that using the mod to force a decent start isn't inherently something to look down upon

[sly remnant]

i don't think it should be looked down upon

[mossy zinc]

Not looking down on it, just keeping it separate.

[honest kernel]

^

[ripe crane]

If there's a mod that just lets you pick your starting boon and nothing else, then I would not consider than seeded because it's mechanically no different than just dying over and over until you get it

[mossy zinc]

I'm not interested in that kinda meta, either.

[gaunt fiber]

High confidence GY dies in one spike trap, who needs a mod

[mossy zinc]

You can just die over and over if you want to, but you don't have to. I just take whatever I get at the start at any heat.

Dying so much just to get the seed you want isn't necessarily faster.

[true fable]

i usually play out my runs too regardless in 32+ heat but like crepes said i don't really see it as that mechanically different if you are that type of player

[mossy zinc]

Can literally take you hours with AP2 for one boon or hammer, and if you can't use the same seed again for unseeded, if you die, you'll have to start all over again finding a seed.

[honest kernel]

I think of all my attempts in 11 hours, one I gave up in asphodel because of salt

And that's it

Played 'em all out

[ripe crane]

I don't try for perfection, but if my first boon doesn't have an attack after a reroll, or is a worthless hammer, then I usually just die

[true fable]

^

if i'm playing beowulf and get cucked out of trippy flare on a high roll the rest of the run is kind of anemic

[mossy zinc]

That's still very different from just forcing an Epic boon of your choice or the perfect hammer with a mod.

The issue is that if you accept those runs in the same category, it's just simply superior to use that mod.

[daring hedge]

yeah, like my zag spear run started with serrated point early into tartarus, which isn't even great without punishing sweep bonus damage

but i ran with it anyway

turned out fine

i try to give runs as much of a chance as i can

[honest kernel]

You'll never know when it's the one

Hell, in my 50 heat Zeus shield, I nearly died to Lernie

[mossy zinc]

You won't learn any new, actually amazing combos you hadn't even thought of until you were forced to make them work, either.

[honest kernel]

That's how I saw that Splitting Headache on Zeus shield is actually kinda amazing

But, y'know, it's no cure for hubris

[true fable]

im not saying i would or that you should reset to get starting boon/hammer

[twilit orbit]

wait how does splitting headache work anyways

[true fable]

+1.5% crit chance per hangover stack

[twilit orbit]

does it multiply your current crit chance or just add base crit chance?

[honest kernel]

It adds

[mossy zinc]

I hadn't thought of using Tidal Dash to finish off enemies that survived my Charged Flight throws until that was my only option to beat TD at 52.

[twilit orbit]

so its just 7.5 crit at max stacks?

[daring hedge]

it's a conditional, better PP when it's up

[true fable]

^

[honest kernel]

You can do it on more than one enemy

[true fable]

better PP krey

[twilit orbit]

oh, so its +1.5 per stack per enemy?

so you have hangover stacked on two enemies and its 15 crit?

[honest kernel]

Per stack, but it counts all enemies

I think

[true fable]

that doesn't make any sense

tailesque is that how it works?

[honest kernel]

Oh, nevermind me

[daring hedge]

it's per enemy pretty sure

[mossy zinc]

It's +1.5% per stack on that enemy.

[daring hedge]

so 1 stack on one enemy, +1.5% versus them, 5 stacks on another, +7.5%

[honest kernel]

^

Checked the description, it matches with that

So that's my b

Either way, 7.5% is still pretty darn good

[twilit orbit]

im surprised that nemesis isnt stronger than it is tbh

[mossy zinc]

That's +15% Hangover damage at 5 stacks.

[twilit orbit]

people talk about 7.5 crit like its great and nemesis randomly just has 30 crit on it

but it still doesnt feel that amazing

[honest kernel]

It's stuck using base sword attacks

That's it's limit

[twilit orbit]

I guess base sword is just that bad

[mossy zinc]

It's half a weapon until you get Double Edge.

[honest kernel]

That's why you see runs pick up Artemis dash and chaos boons at every opportunity

[true fable]

then it's one whole weapon?

[honest kernel]

maybe ?

Probably

[mossy zinc]

people talk about 7.5 crit like its great and nemesis randomly just has 30 crit on it
That's global crit vs crit on Attack.

[honest kernel]

^ that too

[ripe crane]

Crit on hangover ticks

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

Add Hunter's Mark to that for every crit.

[honest kernel]

Suddenly Theseus/Asterius duo isn't so scary

They melt

Sad that Hunter's Mark is so-so against Hades

It works, occasionaly

[mossy zinc]

It still lets you make quick work of the summons and skulls.

[honest kernel]

There's that at 'least

[true fable]

hunter's mark + artemis special on aspect of zeus seems like some cracked stuff

just immediately chain crits

[honest kernel]

Wait until my run's up

I kind of do that to an extent

Funny enough, I get a rare Hunter Mark in Tartarus

[mossy zinc]

No. I won't wait. I refuse.

[honest kernel]

Have to sell it because my other boons are core

Then get it back later at common

Oh, speaking of

Video's processing

[true fable]

its funny seeing everyone active here and then again in haelians chat

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah...

[daring hedge]

i really want meme beam to net a 50 lol

[honest kernel]

👀

[twilit orbit]

whats the point of poseidon start on beams?

[mossy zinc]

@cedar spire, you're on.

You're the only Crystal Beam main we know.

[honest kernel]

He's the meme beam machine

[ripe crane]

I have tried meme beam on Achilles at high heat and even with the artemis duo, the beam has trouble keeping up with enemies at FO2

Especially in Elyseum

[rain sedge]

what's meme beam? super soaker?

[true fable]

crystals

[mossy zinc]

Crystal Beam.

[misty hamlet]

he thinks you use the ARTEMIS duo

[mossy zinc]

Crystal Beam doesn't have trouble keeping up with FO2 when I watch haelian use it.

Must be you.

[misty hamlet]

imagine not running Aphrodemeter all the way to 63 heat

[true fable]

its fine haelian doesnt have to worry about the duo apparently

[twilit orbit]

RIP the dream
https://clips.twitch.tv/ResilientDeterminedCroquetteMau5

[rain sedge]

so again, heart rend > deadly reversal?

I'm trying to get both

[mossy zinc]

Yes.

Unless you have nothing to apply Weak or crit with reliably.

[rain sedge]

cool I am on low heat so I can afford to experiment and try to get both

im on chiron

my plan is athena attack, artemis special, and aphro dash

so apply weak with aphro dash but deflect with attack

wait... "deflect" means you actually have to deflect an attack?

[cerulean frigate]

deadly reversal is way easier to keep going with athena's dash

[gaunt fiber]

I really like Deadly reversal on GY tho

[cerulean frigate]

and is much safer in general

[mossy zinc]

Yes, you need to actually Deflect something for it to be active.

[rain sedge]

yes but divine dash doesnt make me qualify for deadly reversal

I high rolled for it but got unshakable mettle instead 😦

[cerulean frigate]

which is part of why the way to go on chiron is just drunken flourish, heartbreak strike, divine dash.

[gaunt fiber]

But to be fair it is to shorten dad fight because I'm still bad at it

[cerulean frigate]

it's more consistent and the requirements aren't very strict for the duos you want.

[mossy zinc]

You're not gonna apply anything with your Dash on Chiron when you shoot arrows from near fullscreen.

Just get Hunter Dash or maybe Divine Dash for some odd projectiles here and there.

[rain sedge]

planning to go close to apply it

it's only 19 heat

I mean "ideally" I get crush shot, and the boon that extends weak

and apply weak with crush shot

and deflect with divine dash

but I feel like that's asking a lot

[mossy zinc]

That's just lowering your DPS when you could be killing things from near fullscreen as they spawn.

[twilit orbit]

just do aphro attack artemis special and roll for heart rend

[cerulean frigate]

crush shot is an awkward way to apply weak constantly until you get extended weak duration. but even then, you don't really want to close in on chiron

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, what Silly said.

[twilit orbit]

I feel like trying to put both heart rend and deadly reversal together on the same build seems really really unreliable

[rain sedge]

I'm just trying to innovate 😦

I've played heart rend so often

[gaunt fiber]

What aspect ?

[rain sedge]

chiron

[gaunt fiber]

Ah

Heart rend

[true fable]

they just need to make the requirements for DR slightly less stringent

i get it for ME

but for DR it feels like everyone would just rather have HR or some other duo

[cerulean frigate]

crush shot would be more appropriate on Rama since it comes out much faster than a power shot would for trash mobs with low hp. and rama doesn't mind getting a little closer than normal for bow play just because of how much damage you get out of twin shot or triple shot.

but, it's in the "nice to have" category of boons when you run underworld customs at higher heat, and even more like that with RI1

[true fable]

maybe crush but i'd just prefer heartbreak flourish at that point

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah in most situations I would go HR too

[true fable]

like the biggest drawback of DR is it means you have to take divine flourish or divine strike on a weapon that may not want either

[rain sedge]

ok here's the big brain

get DR

get divine dash

sell athena attack

get aphro attack

get heart rend

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah could work at 3 heat

[cerulean frigate]

have fun in those elysium BP2 rooms with no attack boon

[true fable]

yeah or you just get HR + sweet surrender + hunter's mark and end up slightly happier i think

[twilit orbit]

you dont really need an attack boon on chiron to clear rooms so selling it isnt the end of the world

but that build is still ridiculously unreliable

[rain sedge]

I'm at lernie with said build now, but no HR or DR yet

[twilit orbit]

its harder to put together than ME, and ME is already somewhat hard to get going imo

[rain sedge]

I'll @ you all when I get it

[honest kernel]

what heat

[rain sedge]

19 xD

[honest kernel]

Good luck then !

[mossy zinc]

Deadly Reversal is not good on Chiron. You won't even get to Deflect anything most of the time.

I mean it doesn't hurt if you happen to get it, but there's no point in building for it, really.

[twilit orbit]

what if you did athena special + DR?
then you could deflect just by pressing special in the general direction of enemies

[true fable]

that requires such a specific sequence of boons for you

like

[mossy zinc]

Just the fact alone that you have to take Divine Strike or Divine Flourish for it lowers your DPS compared to stronger options.

[honest kernel]

^

[rain sedge]

but then you don't crit anything

[true fable]

athena/artemis, then see another and get DR, then sell, then force aphro, then see aphro/artemis, get HR, etc

[cerulean frigate]

the problem with that is then your special volley damage is mediocre

for most of the run

[rain sedge]

it's fine friends I know it's bad, I'm just experimenting at low heat

I'll go to #hades-low-heat-strat I feel bullied 😦

[twilit orbit]

okay what about this

chiron with ares special, athena attack, get merciful end and stacking doom

:^)

[cerulean frigate]

it's not really meant to bully so much as help with the idea of succeeding at higher heat

[true fable]

@twilit orbit what is this, builds and combat

[rain sedge]

someone tried that build

[cerulean frigate]

like, sub 25 heat, do whatever is fun

[rain sedge]

it's not as good as you think

I know, I joke lol

[twilit orbit]

yeah I expect its not actually that good

[mossy zinc]

I mean we're just theorizing how it will actually work out in a run, yeah.

[rain sedge]

it's fine I know the build is bad

[cerulean frigate]

I put impending doom + dire misfortune on curse of pain chiron for the luls at 20 heat.

[mossy zinc]

stacking doom
lol every time I read that I feel sorry for whoever has high hopes for that boon.

[cerulean frigate]

it worked but would be trash if i wanted to do it at 32+

[rain sedge]

if it's 20 doom damage per attack it'll be viable

[true fable]

dire misfortune

is so underwhelming

[mossy zinc]

Anything works at 32.

Actually.

[rain sedge]

flex it nya

[mossy zinc]

Anything works at 40.

[rain sedge]

say the line

"even RI4 is free at 32"

[cerulean frigate]

you can force things to work at 32 still but you won't have a good time I don't think.

[true fable]

im gonna say it

[mossy zinc]

The new meta is mirror is unnecessary at 32, and boons are unnecessary at 40 if you have your mirror.

[true fable]

Anything works at 64

[cerulean frigate]

64 arthur

[true fable]

hunter dash only

[mossy zinc]

Boonless.

[honest kernel]

Using the Skelly Keepsake

[rain sedge]

have anyone done super soaker at 32?

[cerulean frigate]

no centuar hearts. you have to run fated authority to change the room away from it

if you get than you reset

[true fable]

i think tyler's done super soaker 32

[mossy zinc]

I've definitely seen "super soaker" at 32. I think somebody did 40+ with it? At least they were working on it.

[true fable]

feels possible ive just been grinding the anysoaker speed category

[gaunt fiber]

Did you know that you could get the kill Skelly achievement with his keepsake ?

[true fable]

crepes was trying 46 a while ago

[rain sedge]

did he? I thought he was still trying it out with you

[gaunt fiber]

Not Keepsake sorry

[mossy zinc]

Definitely possible. I was pretty serious when I said anything works at 32 lol.

[true fable]

super soaker is very possible at 32 it just requires some decent luck in tartarus

[mossy zinc]

Why?

[rain sedge]

hmm I don't see it on victory boasting at least

and grats Baj, I saw your 50 heat zeus shield

[twilit orbit]

i mean if you can do 32 heat with no boons you can do it with suboptimal boons too

[mossy zinc]

^

[cerulean frigate]

because otherwise you take 10 years to kill an elite inferno bomber with just tempest strike damage

[rain sedge]

I got sea storm and jolted on super soaker by the time I got to heroes, but I still lost

and I'm not even bad at using rail

[true fable]

sorry requires is the wrong word

you will retain your sanity if you get good boons

[rain sedge]

I mean sure, I lose the lucifer buffs since I'm on switch but I don't think it matters

nya prove it

[true fable]

otherwise your brain will just become pure water

[rain sedge]

do super soaker for us

I dare you

gahhhh I got parting shot instead of deadly reversal

[daring hedge]

super soaker 50 heat when

[true fable]

thats what we're waiting on you for tailesque

[mossy zinc]

I don't really like the aspect tbh.

Only rail I really like is Hestia.

[cerulean frigate]

add another 14 on that and make your uncles Poseidon and Zues proud @daring hedge

[gaunt fiber]

My only run with Lucifer was Aphrodite only, sell other boons. Idk how high it can go

[cerulean frigate]

[rain sedge]

alright nerds

I got it

[loud coral]

Just lost a super good run to TD3 against Theseus, was gonna be a 45 heat win

[rain sedge]

I got the DR, I got the HR, I got divine dash, I got arty flourish

I just need to sell the athena attack and get aphrodite attack

[true fable]

@loud coral happens to the best of us

[cerulean frigate]

i typically get deadline tick damage in tararus or styx/dad fight

[mossy zinc]

I feel like 32 Heat should only count anymore if you do it boonless or mirrorless, anyway.

[true fable]

gatekeeping 🔫

the longest ive lived with deadline tick damage is around 2-3 mins

[mossy zinc]

Whatcha gonna do about it?

Git gud?

[cerulean frigate]

Did you know that Divine Protection will save you at 1 HP from Deadline

[daring hedge]

i want to see a divine protection run live through TD overtime and not get hit the whole time for several biomes

[cerulean frigate]

as long as you don't lose the shield

[rain sedge]

yea someone posted about it

OKAY it's happening

I sold my divine strike

all I need

is to get aphro in styx

PLEASE

[mossy zinc]

@daring hedge so just a no-hit run lol.

[cerulean frigate]

i sure didn't the first time it saved me, but i put the controller down thinking i lost and got speared by dad

[north dove]

Divine protection might be the only way to win 63/64 heat

[daring hedge]

@daring hedge so just a no-hit run lol.
@mossy zinc yeah but the TENSION

yeah i think i might agree

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah it would be spectacular

[mossy zinc]

Cursed Slash is the way to go.

[cerulean frigate]

sleeper zag sword cursed slash way to win

[daring hedge]

flurry slash cursed slash outheal overtime damage

easy

[mossy zinc]

@daring hedge Swift Strike.

Heroic.

[cerulean frigate]

swift strike from hermes

[daring hedge]

the highest heat strat

[honest kernel]

Zeus shield 50 heat video's up

[gaunt fiber]

Nice

[honest kernel]

Posted it in Self-promotion

[cerulean frigate]

maybe Amir knew all along that was Zag sword's niche

[north dove]

oh wow did I miss the zeus 50 👀

congrats

[daring hedge]

amir says cruel thrust is good

truly that's the high heat strat

[twilit orbit]

has anyone kept track of the highest heat each aspect has cleared?

[cerulean frigate]

good based off casual pick rate at low heat stats maybe

[mossy zinc]

Has Amir said that?

[daring hedge]

he has

[mossy zinc]

Amir has never done 32 Heat or sub 12. I feel like his advice may be a bit suspect in that regard.

[daring hedge]

but also our high heat perspectives are... different than his lol

[honest kernel]

Very

[cerulean frigate]

there's also the matter of thinking approval process is a fun pact

[mossy zinc]

It's good in the sense that it's fun for a lot of players, I imagine.

Approval Process is a fun pact.

[daring hedge]

yeah, it has good pick rate and i'm sure it's fun for low heat

[mossy zinc]

People dying to 150-damage urns at high heat is hilarious.

[twilit orbit]

im not even really a very high heat player and even I can tell that cruel thrust is pretty bad

[honest kernel]

I die twice to urns in the 50 heat zeus video

One was my fault, the other I was very surprised to be hit by it

[cerulean frigate]

idk how personally. roguelikes/lites put emphasis on your ability to make good decisions based off what's available to you and what could be available to you later

[honest kernel]

On the other hand, Managed to keep 1 charge of the accorn for phase 2

With butterfly spawn

[cerulean frigate]

turning a lot of those decisions off is just lame

[daring hedge]

roguelites also incorporate a certain level of "tough luck, buddy" and AP fits that bill

[hollow lynx]

ooo, are we doing the "should AP be in the game" discussion again

this one is always fun

[daring hedge]

please no

[mossy zinc]

The decision becomes less about what boons you pick and more about whether to pick boons in those particular situations.

[cerulean frigate]

tough luck buddy is represented by never seeing story rooms in the run and 150 damage urns

[mossy zinc]

I've never agreed with the sentiment that AP somehow removes strategy and replaces it with just RNG.

[rain sedge]

#h1-victory-boasting message

HR + DR + aphro attack + divine dash + arte flourish

told y'all it's possible

.....it's also not as good as I thought

[true fable]

we never doubted it was possible

it is possible

[twilit orbit]

do you think that this game should have a decline boon/hammer option?

[true fable]

just not worth

[rain sedge]

it... doesn't feel like dad melts

[twilit orbit]

so even at AP2 you would still have a choice between picking the one option or not taking it

[daring hedge]

do you think that this game should have a decline boon/hammer option?
@twilit orbit i want this for easier boonless runs

[rain sedge]

like... it doesnt feel that much stronger than just HR

and I only got it at the end of stye

[cerulean frigate]

you sort of have a boon decline option out of fated persuasion

if you really squint

[mossy zinc]

it... doesn't feel like dad melts
It would if you had Relentless and Concentrated Volley.

[gaunt fiber]

Or both

[mossy zinc]

"and"

[gaunt fiber]

Nvm can't read

[mossy zinc]

Or write.

[north dove]

Would the hammer decline option offer you more hammers later or count as the hammer being taken?

[rain sedge]

yeah it feels like the DR was not worth much

[cerulean frigate]

oof

[twilit orbit]

I mean how often do you even deflect with bow

[mossy zinc]

^

[cerulean frigate]

very little.

[gaunt fiber]

Or write.
@mossy zinc oof

[rain sedge]

it's the DR that deflects it

[twilit orbit]

so DR + HR is basically just the same as HR with no DR

[rain sedge]

sorry I mean divine dash

[cerulean frigate]

the most you end up deflecting is off divine dash and hades's bloodstones

[rain sedge]

I try my best to stay close and deflect dad's attack but... yeah

I had such high hopes 😦

[mossy zinc]

Can't Deflect spins anyway.

[cerulean frigate]

and the occasional satyr spit

[twilit orbit]

wait can you not deflect his big spin?

[rain sedge]

Can't Deflect spins anyway.
@mossy zinc what

[twilit orbit]

that makes a lot of sense actually

[rain sedge]

wfym

[true fable]

DR feels like it's just in a weird place

[twilit orbit]

I keep trying to deflect his spin attacks and get annoyed at my timing because the text never pops up

[true fable]

where it has aspects of ME and HR balanced like ME but strictly less useful than both

[cerulean frigate]

DR is fine. it's just a matter of getting more of it to get more and more eHP

[true fable]

exactly

it's fine

[cinder cave]

wait are you talking about damage reduction or Deadly Reversal?

[true fable]

whereas ME is a game changer and procs without needing to actually deflect

and HR has much easier requirements

[cerulean frigate]

and even if you end up with just a bronze skin 4 HP shaved off the base damage of dad's spin is still enough HP to make a difference whether you win or lose.

[rain sedge]

wait can someone explain what can be deflected and not

[cinder cave]

because I think you guys are talking about different DRs

[rain sedge]

the big spin can't be deflected?

this might explain a lot of things

[twilit orbit]

if you get the text that says "deflected" then you can deflect it

[cerulean frigate]

oh, duh. deadly reversal

[true fable]

yeah my bad

[cerulean frigate]

im out here giving Hypnos advice when you're looking for Thanatos advice

[rain sedge]

I never paid attention to text, busy dying

[cinder cave]

it's just one of the ambiguous acronyms

lel

that's actually funny for a discord full of acronyms

[limpid nymph]

chaos shield carries at mid heat

privileged status doom and blocking, sign me up

[mossy zinc]

You can't deflect the spin from Theseus or Hades. You can only i-frame it, get out of the way, or block.

[cerulean frigate]

not true. you can also eat it and not care

[true fable]

let's be honest you'll always care a little bit

[rain sedge]

everytime I die from theseus I feel bad

[cerulean frigate]

500 hp arthur damage reduction stacking ez clap

[mossy zinc]

You also can't deflect shockwave attacks like from the skullcrusher or Lernie, but you can deflect the initial stomp/slam/whatever, and it will nullify the shockwave, too, but that's only actually reliable against EM Asterius. But the shockwave thingy from Hades when he phases, you can't deflect that in any way.

[daring hedge]

also interesting tidbit: you can deflect green lernie skullcrusher shadows

like, before they land at all

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, they just behave like Skullcrushers in that way.

Just like you can damage Skullcrushers just before they land.

[daring hedge]

i don't recall normal skullcrushers working that way, huh

weird

[mossy zinc]

Are you saying you can deflect them way earlier than normal Skullcrushers?

[rain sedge]

alright I've given up doing 50 with my setup

I'm gonna eat the AP and RI

[mossy zinc]

I'm not entirely sure if you can deflect the MM Skullcrusher. I think so, but it's very tight, so it rarely happens.

[daring hedge]

Are you saying you can deflect them way earlier than normal Skullcrushers?
@mossy zinc yeah, like as soon as green lernie is in the summoning animation, if you dash with divine dash wherever you are, you'll deflect

the shadow itself lol

[mossy zinc]

lol okay I think I've done that but not really registered it.

Yeah, that's different from what I meant.

[daring hedge]

ah i see

[rain sedge]

tidal dash on 50 is not viable right?

[daring hedge]

it can be!

[rain sedge]

if you're bad and not tail?

[daring hedge]

especially on eris or gilga

[rain sedge]

I'm on eris

[honest kernel]

It's probably at it's best there

And likely to work

[daring hedge]

i think retrash had taken it for some of his attempts? maybe

[twilit orbit]

its good damage but you have to make sure to not get hit because you cant crutch on athena dash

[north dove]

I had tidal dash on my 50 poseidon sword

[mossy zinc]

Tidal Dash is particularly good on anything that just nearly one-shots enemies but not quite, so you can just finish them off with the Dash.

I had Tidal Dash on Beowulf 52.

[rain sedge]

well I took it, but I have to sell it anyway

[mossy zinc]

its good damage but you have to make sure to not get hit get Greatest Reflex because you cant crutch on athena dash
FTFY.

[rain sedge]

I didn't get more than 2 boons on tartarus 😦

[mossy zinc]

Such is life.

[rain sedge]

nvm tis killed me

alright I'm out

50 is too hard

[mossy zinc]

With some luck, you'll get one boon in Asphodel that . . . nevermind.

[gaunt fiber]

Did I teach you to surrender ?

[rain sedge]

fun fact: 90% of my GY runs are suicide runs to progress story

so yes

[cerulean frigate]

greatest reflex + hyper sprint tidal dash is almost athena dash if you do a bit of mental gymnastics

[rain sedge]

xD

[mossy zinc]

@gaunt fiber you're teaching anyone how to do 50+, you should do 50+ yourself first.

[rain sedge]

I mean, idk what I am doing wrong, I didn't remember 45 being this hard

[honest kernel]

The burns keep coming and coming

holy

[mossy zinc]

Well.

[rain sedge]

I don't remember struggling to get out of tartarus

[gaunt fiber]

I'm merely giving my point of view on how to get on the path of victory

[rain sedge]

but now it feels like most run I just died

[mossy zinc]

45 isn't 50 lol.

[gaunt fiber]

not 50+

[rain sedge]

yeah it's like 5 heat difference idk

[cerulean frigate]

tartarus is the hardest part of the run at high heat on most of the aspects

[honest kernel]

^ was one of 'em for me

Mainly due to BP2 hard rooms

[mossy zinc]

Heat isn't additive.

[honest kernel]

Heat is exponential once you reach a certain breakpoint

[cerulean frigate]

and yeah, heat isn't linear like the numbers suggest. the pacts compound each other in really unpleasant ways

like bp2 and fo2

[tidal flame]

RI4 for 2 heat xD lmao

[gaunt fiber]

worth

[cerulean frigate]

is ri4 really 2 heat

[mossy zinc]

RI4 kinda free. Seems fine.

[honest kernel]

Each level of RI is 2 heat

So yeah

[cerulean frigate]

lol

[gaunt fiber]

wait

[cerulean frigate]

i can understand the first 2 being 2 heat if you ignore turning off dark foresight being a big nerf to the run overall

[gaunt fiber]

why is everything maxed on 50+

[rain sedge]

that's exactly the part you can't ignore

[tidal flame]

RI4 and LC4 is about the hardest 12 heat you can get.

[gaunt fiber]

that's not reassuring

[cerulean frigate]

LC4 isn't that hard once you're comfortable with SD and the game in general.

[rain sedge]

idk about LC4

I mean RI4 is torture

[cerulean frigate]

HL5 is much worse. half you eHP for the entire run

[rain sedge]

I'll give 50 a few more tries but

if not I'll just retire

[ripe crane]

I didn't enjoy much of my grind for 50 tbh. It's but particularly fun

[cinder cave]

I actually just noticed that if you smack the Skelly statues, he gets pretty mad

xD

[jovial river]

just real quick, what do you guys recommend to get to 32 heat? I've been running 1x lasting consequences, EM4, 1x calisthenics program, 2x benefits package, middle management, customs, 2x overtime, heightened security, 1x damage control and 2x deadline but I get creamed super early

despite having no trouble with 16 heat lmao

[gaunt fiber]

It really depends on the aspect

But I recommend not running HS yet since it's 1 heat and can kill you run pretty easily

Same for EM4

and FO2

[cinder cave]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/627462022132531210/776636835622682634/unknown.png

this is the pact setup I used for Chiron

could probably tweak around that as a baseline

[jovial river]

I'll give it a go @gaunt fiber

thanks!

[ripe crane]

How does one mentally recovery from losing the perfect setup to stupidity

[gaunt fiber]

By remembering the fact that you're an amazing player

[ripe crane]

I am only capable of remembering mistake

[gaunt fiber]

That's what humans do

[ripe crane]

Ah, I just need to reject humanity. Thanks!

[gaunt fiber]

I'm not so sure about that but if that conclusion raised your moral

[ripe crane]

I'm actually gonna take a break for now. Messing around with 52 Hestia with RI3. I actually kind of like having one dash. I don't feel like I'm just jumping around frantically but am thinking about my movements a bit more

[gaunt fiber]

That's good

for me the game is fun as long as you make progress

small victories are important

[ripe crane]

Small victories don't go on a spreadsheet 😠

[gaunt fiber]

is that your goal ?

The sum of it does tho

[ripe crane]

I mean if I'm being honest with myself then yes that is probably the goal. Well, sometimes. I actually have a lot of fun with Hestia so whether or not 52 ever happens I'm still enjoying it.

[gaunt fiber]

That's a nice goal ! I like Hestia too, I'll watch you run to see how you play it

By the way, how did you grind heat ? 16-32, 40 etc ? All weapons ?

[ripe crane]

mmmm at some point around 15~ clears on each weapon I jumped to trying for 32 on everything. After that was done I did 36 and 40 for the weapons I liked, then 40 for everything. Sword/spear/shield were not very fun for me to get to 40, and everyone already played bow a bunch, so I decided I wanted to see how high I could push fists and Hestia

[gaunt fiber]

Oh I see

I'm about the first step and the bounties are boring me

[ripe crane]

I feel like it's best to turn on the hard stuff and leave it on to get used to it. FO2 doesn't come off even in fun runs.

[gaunt fiber]

I died so much with FO1 only that I switched to FO2 to improve

it works actually

[ripe crane]

I kind of knew I wanted to try for high heat stuff so I preferred just trying to jump into the harder things sooner rather than doing it gradually. It can be frustrating to start with but it forces you to adapt more quickly I think.

[heady olive]

i started out with fo2 so i didnt have to experience fo1

yea adapting quickly is better

[gaunt fiber]

Yup agreed

[true fable]

you recover by going again

runs that can be lost to stupidity can be won by stupidity

[ripe crane]

That is how I win most of my runs

[north dove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/776973842651283466/unknown.png The best way to play zag spear really is to just ignore the throw huh

[twilit orbit]

nourished soul really putting in work

[north dove]

yep yep

[gaunt fiber]

AP2 gamers

[twilit orbit]

at least its not cursed slash

[ripe crane]

Lmao we got two 50 zag spears today

[north dove]

I actually managed to keep my acorn alive until phase 3 even without more dashes or a deflect dash somehow

the demeter slowdown is so good

[twilit orbit]

we have tailesque's zag spear, haelian's seeded zag spear, and now retrash's zag spear

all at 50 heat

[ripe crane]

And yet Achilles is at 46

[twilit orbit]

is zag spear now considered the second best spear aspect???

[north dove]

probably

[true fable]

just like hestia and eris are clearly tied for best rail

[north dove]

Zag sword is still the best sword

[true fable]

this is how we power rank i am very smart

[ripe crane]

I mean Hades only has one 50 heat clear so

Zag spear is actually the best

[gaunt fiber]

wait what's the best spear aspect

[twilit orbit]

wait

but didnt tailesque clear 52 with hades?

or am I thinking of something else

[north dove]

he did

[ripe crane]

Oh did he?

[twilit orbit]

so hades spear is still the best

[true fable]

i think that may have been blood price but i could be wrong

[north dove]

he also did 40 boonless with it but that's just opening up another can of worms

[true fable]

well @twilit orbit either way 3*50>52

[ripe crane]

Well either way, 50+50+50 is 150, so zag spear is still easy higher

[twilit orbit]

ah, fair enough

I cant beat math

[ripe crane]

Boonless sounds ez. Imma try it right now

Nvm my first boon was an attack this sucks

[heady olive]

so is it recommended to take athena dash on 40 heat or sth

or can i go without it on eris

[daring hedge]

tidal dash on eris is pretty worth it in terms of sheer damage output, you probably don't need divine at 40 with it

[heady olive]

thankss

[ripe crane]

Theseus and Asterius are not fun with one dash

[rain sedge]

is this RI4 shenanigans

[ripe crane]

3

[rain sedge]

cool side effect from AP1

I've been blocked from zeus attack boon for 4 runs in a row

I swear it has an internal machine learning module that guesses which boon you wanted the most and blocks it

[north dove]

my 50 heat zag spear win is up in #self-promotion

[rain sedge]

meanwhile retrash is flexing a 50 heat win with the worst aspect in the game

[north dove]

thunder dash + jolted did most of the work, the spear was just there for show

[rain sedge]

honest Q: how much did you grind?

idk if I'm just bad or 50 actually requires a lot of grinding

[north dove]

it does require a lot of grinding, but I usually play out my bad runs anyways since there's always a chance to come back with TD2

[true fable]

AP feels like it homes in on green boons i swear

i cant prove it but it does

[rain sedge]

it's ok I'll play for fun instead and try different builds

nemesis is the standard heart rend right?

[tame cedar]

Just did my first 32 heat run!

Made it all the way to Hades!

...aaand then realized I forgot to switch off Extremer Measures 🤣

I feel like I could have pulled it off otherwise

Oh well, lesson learned I s'pose!

[ripe crane]

Non-EM champions fight is harder than non-em dad

[edgy arrow]

you can do non EM champions in like, 20 seconds tho

even non EM, dad takes me like a minute

[ripe crane]

Not when you're boonless :/

[wintry sluice]

Lol that's a rather specific challenge

What heat are you trying for boonless @ripe crane

[ripe crane]

42 with Hestia. Have not had much issue making it to champions when boons cooperate and don't give me an attack, but I keep screwing up the end of the fight.

[edgy arrow]

boonless lol

that explains it

good luck

[north dove]

do you use the room reroll to turn boon rooms into health?

[wintry sluice]

Is it just attack boonless?

[ripe crane]

Nah I feel like I have enough most of the time. Have been around 300 when I make it to champions. But also I have RI2/AP2 on so I need rerolls for boons

No, no boons at all. You can't use whatever you get a boon for and sell them when you can

Might turn off AP2 just so it's less annoying

[wintry sluice]

Rough

[heady olive]

yay 40 heat eris done

i messed up really bad cos i decided to go for an extra tunnel, so i ended up with 30% hp instead of 80% with the 80% sd from patrocles

was trying to go for smouldering air but rng was not on my side

[gaunt crane]

why not simply use the artemis excaliber every time

and win every time