yes
#h1-high-heat-strategies
hollow lynx
rain sedge
Ty
Well, I'll never run SD again. I've done it once for 32 because I have to, but never again
I feel so vulnerable at boss fights
wraith imp
https://imgur.com/79E8i8R
@final torrent
i've never been able to do this on mouse and keyboard.
does anyone have a keyboard step-by-step on how to do this?
So is it known that if you have Divine Protection, you can live arbitrarily long after Tight Deadline? https://clips.twitch.tv/PiliableSlipperyHareBCWarrior
@ember bronze
very cool
i did not know this.
rain sedge
What's the best keepsake for a speedrun with Eris? Distant memory for DPS?
daring hedge
eris has you pretty up close to most enemies and bosses because of commonly taking tidal dash and/or rocket bomb. distant memory isn't great on it, or really much of anything for that matter
true fable
its almost always zeus--> poseidon if not in tartarus--> dad--> dad for speedruns but this isnt the channel for it
so i wont go too into it
ripe crane
Ok I'm getting some very weird backstab damage and I can't figure out why
hollow lynx
is it because you're backstabbing things
ripe crane
I have level 5 blinding flash which should be 101% damage, and of course shadow presence.
Normal shot does 203, backstab does 1029
ripe crane
Like what other boons?
ripe crane
I can't, unless I beat dad on this practice file I made. The file starts right when the fight starts lol
ripe crane
I have artemis on attack and crtis are over 3k
Was thinking it could be targeting system but this is happening even without that active
hollow lynx
no chance that you were using targeting?
ripe crane
I will restart the fight and make sure not to use it
It's definitely blinding flash
203 normal attack, 278 regular backstab, 1029 after exposing
That seems very incorrect
hollow lynx
is exposed... multiplicative?! 👀
Exposed: For 5 Seconds, victim takes more damage when struck from behind.
Shadow Presence: Each rank gives you +10% damage when you strike foes from behind.
shadow presence gives you a +50% damage bonus when you backstab, and then exposed makes an enemy take more damage when backstabbed
true fable
that would be wildly inconsistent right? or is exposed secretly the best status in the game
ornate dust
im trying to do 32heats on every weapon so far only melee ones left.. any tips on them?
ripe crane
That would be extremely stupid and I would be very surprised if nobody has noticed this before
hollow lynx
there's precedent in maim and sweet surrender, which both say an enemy takes more damage
hollow lynx
or rather, sweet surrender and exposed are the precedent that maim follows up on
true fable
no tips for sword im still stuck with that and spear lol
hollow lynx
i mean, i just found out today that i was reading maim wrong and simply thinking it was an additive bonus
this could very well be a case of nobody reading it right
true fable
bug or feature
hollow lynx
leaning towards feature, since weak says the same thing and it's multiplicative
true fable
could always put it in tech support and see if someone says that's the intended function
hollow lynx
the thing about curses is that they have to be an enemy-facing effect
true fable
oh i see
ripe crane
I mean 4x damage is quite the feature
true fable
its multiplicative because exposed changes how much damage enemies take and shadow presence increases how much damage you do
that makes more sense
hollow lynx
and i think if it were meant to be additive, why not just already hook into the pre-existing additive everything else in regards to backstab damage
true fable
just more poorly worded
ripe crane
I'm still gonna report it
true fable
tooltip adjustment please
ripe crane
And test it
hollow lynx
the tooltips
my pet peeve is when people ask questions that are answered in the tooltips 😔
true fable
the t||oo||ltips
ripe crane
Even if this is multiplicative, how does that make sense
It says 101%
A normal backstab is doing 278
Time to invalidate every run ever done with blinding flash
hollow lynx
i mean, we've already known exposed was great 😛
rain sedge
Got a 12:10 clear, would've been sub 12 if meg didn't decide to miss her call
true fable
hmm
hollow lynx
time to do that parting shot cold embrace build on hera
rain sedge
I think that's as fast as it goes without some absurd rng
true fable
@ripe crane family favorite or PS
ripe crane
ff
hollow lynx
ripe crane
Yep
Using this codex mod, I have myself blinding flash with 164% damage, no other boons
Backstab on spear went from 40 to 245
Very bugged rn
hollow lynx
yep
ripe crane
Oh sorry the 245 was a dash attack, regular is 306
hollow lynx
probably bugged lol
true fable
ok so how much is normal attack damage on the spear
just trying to figure out how its doing the damage calc for myself
ripe crane
I am doing 27 normal, 40 backstab, 306 with exposed
dire steppe
what about a high heat run where you do it on your 10th run so you dont have to fight dad at all
ripe crane
I wonder what happens if I add in another modifier
dire steppe
would that be accepted on LBs
loud coral
ok so how much is normal attack damage on the spear
1st strike is 25 damage, 2nd and 3rd are 30
hollow lynx
the highest
true fable
start a new save file just to get LB
dire steppe
speedrun strats tbh
true fable
@ripe crane i cant even figure out what its calculating off of
you said its 164% exposed bonus right?
hollow lynx
but you can't get max heat with that strat bc em4 would still be locked 😛
hollow lynx
maybe... sgg broke something
daring hedge
when in doubt, verify game files
ripe crane
Hmmm all right
hollow lynx
if exposed really is multiplicative, that would be neat
but we can't really tell until your game is fixed lol
daring hedge
yeah, i feel like i've taken exposed recently, gone for backstabs, and didn't notice anything huge because of it
seems weird
ripe crane
Okay, well I dumped my styx poms into it because there was nothing else
true fable
question for anyone familiar with dad keepsake
ripe crane
Testing at low level, it looks normal
ripe crane
After leveling it up with pom, it gets much more powerful
daring hedge
good question but i'm inclined to say no
i think the attack or special or whatever has to come out of zagreus while the buff is active
true fable
i am too
daring hedge
for it to count
true fable
there have been weirder interactions so i just wanted to check with someone who knows better
im gonna pom exposed for a couple runs
not like i have anything better to do today
ripe crane
Same
Gonna verify game files first
Okay crazy idea, what if it's adding every level of exposed
Like I had 5 levels start at 50 and going to 101. So maybe it was adding like, 50, 67, 75, 83, 101 or whatever. That would get pretty close to multiplier I had I think?
Idk just throwing stuff out there
true fable
ima look
ripe crane
Ya I'm checking and will keep track as I go through the run
If I ever get blinding flash
true fable
im gonna look in the luas to see if theres blinding flash/exposed data
doubt but maybe
wraith imp
was touch of styx dark nerfed?
daring hedge
don't think so no
ripe crane
Yeah this is already very evident that it is broken just at level 2. I have the rare one at 63% which does 56 damage. One additional level to 83% and it does 86
wraith imp
so it always gave 80? for some reason i thought it gave 90%.
hollow lynx
it's still +50% right?
wraith imp
oh you're right
hollow lynx
sd has always been 30% at base, iirc
wraith imp
i was misremembering
true fable
anyone know why my base damage is increasing in each room?
daring hedge
???
true fable
i was testing the exposed thing and my base attack with sword has increased from
20 against skelly
to 21 in like chamber 3
to like 22 now
idk
more weird things
daring hedge
are you sure that isn't family favorite
ripe crane
FF?
dire steppe
what’s the heat record for fresh file hell mode
daring hedge
i actually don't know of anyone who does hell mode fresh file lol
true fable
the number of people who do fresh file is already really small
heat record fresh file would be another beast
i guess theres always RI4
hahaha
honest kernel
I did hell mode fresh file, started recently on switch and already got 100 hours
I enjoyed the difficult experience
Made getting titan blood hard at first though
daring hedge
fresh file as in the very first run, victory
no darkness farm, no losses from start
honest kernel
Oh heck I see that would be a very challenging thing to do. I'll try that today for fun
hollow lynx
true fable
for >fun
whats weird is that level 1 blinding flash works as intended
exposed enemies take +50% backstab and then another +50% for exposed
at level 3 however
they are taking a whopping 430% damage instead of the expected 234%
ripe crane
Yes, it is like adding 100% for every level.
ripe crane
true fable
LOL
ripe crane
The backstab % doesn't seem to matter at all. Totally unrelated to the actual effect
true fable
this is so funny
ripe crane
Or very close to it
Actually from level 1 to 2 you would think it is going up 20%. But it might be going up 120%. Then to level 3 you'd think it would go up 14%, but it's actually another 114%
ripe crane
Kinda sucks, I really wanted to grind out 50 heat Hestia. No way it would be legit with blinding flash though
daring hedge
this is wild, be sure to f10 if you haven't already
true fable
i put it in tech support
daring hedge
ah yeah, good call
ripe crane
Wonder how long it's been like this
true fable
im gonna see if i can hit 10K on a hestia crit
maybe we have all been doing high heat wrong
maybe the strategy is just to pom blinding flash and prioritize backstabbing
ripe crane
I'm almost completely sure that the damage is additive with your other bonuses. With spear at level 10 blinding flash, my backstab was doing 300 damage. After using Achilles buff, it was 337.
true fable
ah sad
daring hedge
backstab damage is the new wave
my 32 wr yesterday had two epic chaos backstab boons
ripe crane
Reported
true fable
its probably additive with the chaos ones right
ripe crane
Poms
daring hedge
heart rend
true fable
heart rend is good shout
daring hedge
lots of chaos gates
proud jay
wait is backstab busted
ripe crane
Blinding Flash is broken
proud jay
only blinding flash?
ripe crane
Every pom adds an extra 100% damage
proud jay
is the tooltip wrong or what
ripe crane
No it's bugged
true fable
tooltip is wrong
or
well yeah its bugged
level 3 blinding flash was giving me +430% backstab damage
🙂
proud jay
or is it somehow multiplicative with other multipliers
true fable
nah i think crepes ran the numbers and its just adding a flat +100% with every pom
in addition to the normal bonus
proud jay
oh no
true fable
LOL
ripe crane
Yeah, it's very bugged. I was up to 1500% backstab damage at level 14
true fable
like you would expect level 3 blinding flash to give you +230%
instead
because of the 2 poms its giving +430%
proud jay
what attack deals 27 damage?
ripe crane
It was the first spear attack, I accidentally left family favorites on for the test, but the bug still occurs without it. Base is technically 25
true fable
i turned off family favorite with zag sword and had the same results
proud jay
shouldn't 100% add 20 damage then edit: nvm, 25 i mean
how is the damage so inconsistent
was it only first attacks or full combo?
spear damage is 25/30/30
ripe crane
Level 1 is 63%. Level 2 is 83%. The damage should be 20% of 25 more (+5 damage) but it's 120% of 25 more (+30)
proud jay
ah so +100% on top of what the tooltip says
true fable
yes
proud jay
ok cool
true fable
for each pom level
ripe crane
Not exactly, no
proud jay
that's a great find btw
true fable
so its like
ripe crane
Ty 😄
true fable
+100% for each pom + whatever the difference is between that and the previous level
on the tooltip
daring hedge
i wonder how recent this even is? if it popped up in 1.0 or a post-launch patch
wild
ripe crane
That's what I am wondering
proud jay
could've been around forever
daring hedge
yeah
proud jay
parting shot builds have been crazy
sly remnant
get your demeter fists run in
ripe crane
Cause like, even with level 3 blinding flash, that's 200% extra damage
Seems like it could make a lot of runs questionable
hollow lynx
oh god, were parting shot builds actually the best cast builds and we just never knew?
true fable
casually doing 2.5k in asphodel hahaha
proud jay
people were doing athena cast parting shot builds with Hera for a while
even if you could one-shot hades phases it still wasn't the fastest bow build
true fable
normal encounters too slow?
proud jay
yeah, lacks aoe
proud jay
i'd imagine people will switch to rama once they figure out how to play it
it's already used in the all weapons wr run
ripe crane
Okay, what sort of run in early access is most likely to have blinding flash? I am really curious to check this out
proud jay
athena cast hera build
proud jay
yeah
ripe crane
Hmmm might be hard to tell there but I'll check it out
ripe crane
Kind of hard to tell the effect with it on cast
true fable
parting shot and blinding flash
proud jay
cast damage is easy to look up
true fable
crossover episode of two of the most weirdly written tooltips
proud jay
ah he pommed exposed before finding parting shot
ripe crane
Yeah and bow has variable damage also. We don't even know if it works with parting shot.
proud jay
cast is separate from bow damage
ripe crane
Would probably have to be a run with pommed blinding flash using a regular attack
true fable
i just did 5.2k to the bull of minos im living
daring hedge
hera just changes the delivery of the casts. their damage is shown separately and hera doesn't have an innate cast damage boost like poseidon
ripe crane
Right, what I'm saying is that the blinding flash bug may not even occur with casts
daring hedge
ripe crane
I'm gonna delete that for now until I test it more
true fable
i dont see why it wouldnt if you have parting shot
but hey
weirder stuff has happened
ripe crane
Okay my mistake, that is just wildly inconsistent with whether or not the cast actually backstabs even if the arrow does.
However it does appear to be affecting both Hera casts regular casts in the bugged way
true fable
looks like 6k damage was the cap for that run
and i got athena and aphro in tartarus
not sure if i'll get that lucky again anytime soon
it is surprisingly hard to screenshot and shoot at the same time
ripe crane
Has shadow presence always been 50%?
hollow lynx
yes
ripe crane
hmm
tough elk
so... is this backstab bug only if exposed is applied by dash, or by other athena boons as well?
ripe crane
Blinding Flash, regardless of how you apply it
tough elk
wonder if a similar bug exists for Razor Shoals since it's kind of a copy-paste of Blinding Flash
true fable
what do you mean
hollow lynx
razor shoals and blinding flash are uh pretty different lol
tough elk
that for every source of rupture/exposed, there's two property changes, for example
as opposed to jolted, where there's only one property change per source
mossy zinc
I'm not following.
tough elk
i want to post code example but i'm afraid it'll clutter up the chat
so i'll refrain
just throwing it out there in case you'd like to see if the bug's in razor shoals as well, since they're implemented similarly
ripe crane
Is there somewhere you can actually see the code for what boons are doing? Cause I'd like to look at blinding flash
mossy zinc
Would be better throwing your ideas out in #h1-tech-support where the QA team can see it.
tough elk
you can browse local files from steam and look at Content/Scripts/TraitData.lua
blinding flash is AthenaBackstabDebuffTrait
ripe crane
But, yes this is probably not where to discuss this any further now that we've determined it is actually bugged. I will check that out. Thanks!!
true fable
@tough elk do you know which lua file i'd look at if i want to see how that boon is affected by poms
tough elk
TraitScripts has the logic, TraitData has the values
mossy zinc
Shouldn't discuss datamining in the server. At least keep it to #h1-tech-support since it's about figuring out a bug. 
hollow lynx
or go to the modding server lol
ripe crane
Well, for anyone worried that they may have inadvertently cheated, I looked at my run from yesterday and damage is calculated correctly, so it must have been a micro patch yesterday or today sometime. Anyway...
Am I crazy for wanting to run AP2 over RI2 + AP1?
Think I'm gonna try a couple like this. Those last few mirror benefits are just wild
twilit orbit
to be fair, I think the last three mirror talents are much less good if you have AP2 turned on
still useful but not really amazing anymore
cerulean frigate
at this point im ready to just keep hightened security off if i enable em4. tired of double urn stacks and auto spawning under my feet
twilit orbit
i spent a while playing with heightened security today
I honestly forgot I had it turned on until one map in elysium where I dashed into a corner with two spear traps at right angles
they both poked me at the same time and I instantly died
so basically, it feels pretty free to take until you randomly die
true fable
someone also pointed out that sure footing damage reduc is multiplicative
which is nice
basically HS just becomes your sure footing check
ripe crane
Welp. Decided to try out the "anything but RI plan" once before bed and succeeded with 50 heat on Hestia o_o
That's the highest anyone has done as far as I can tell soooo that feels pretty awesome
Went with maxed out JS and CP instead of adding to AP though. No Patty, didn't even use my extra Athena DD 😎
cerulean frigate
man crush shot hits so hard with the new pom scaling on achillies
dire steppe
DDs on 50 heat instead of SD??
mossy zinc
Last Stand and Deathless Stand give you a free DD each if you've used up your SD in the chamber.
@ripe crane congratulations! That is indeed WR with Hestia. 
ripe crane
Thanks :D!! I feel pretty darn great. I can't believe how well the dad fight went.
I watched one of your videos recently and you had the music turned off. I tried that and it has been so extremely helpful in calming down.
ripe crane
I think it was the one you sent here, fist run in early access
mossy zinc
Well, I'm glad it helped, anyway.
ripe crane
Yep, sure did. Everyone here has been helpful and inviting in their own ways. Very glad I have come to hang out with you all and get into this game.
twilit orbit
did you get your run recorded?
ripe crane
I did! I stream attempts as that seems like the most legit way of doing it. Already sent it off to Wriste for review for the spreadsheet
twilit orbit
yay
i like looking at the spreadsheet sometimes to learn how to best players use certain weapons
and it needs more varied entries
like half of the entries for 1.0 are talisque's rama runs
ripe crane
I didn't have my headset on until the end, and then I was so excited that I plugged my mic into my headphone jack, so there is about 5 minutes of unintelligible commentary at the end lol. I tried to put a few notes in the description, or you can ask me questions if you feel like playing Hestia at some point.
cerulean frigate
well then. phalanx shot still backstabs from any angle but it has the unfortunate side effect that it also is blocked at any angle by greatshields if shot out of hera bow
ripe crane
Phalanx shot is weird. Are you using on purpose?
cerulean frigate
yes because it's a quite strong cast in general
ripe crane
tru
true fable
hestia is really really fun i just sometimes feel overwhelmed with too many small mobs
def will watch your run once its added
or if you have the link rn
daring hedge
like half of the entries for 1.0 are talisque's rama runs
hey i have some other aspects in the 1.0 unseeded too
true fable
LOL
twilit orbit
you're just too good
its not your fault you have so many runs, its everyone else's fault
ripe crane
You know, I just realized that a mistake may have won me that run. I forgot to equip acorn for Elyseum, but that in turn meant that I had on Artemis's arrowhead still. And I got Divine Reversal from a regular Artemis boon that I bought, likely because of the increased rarity chance. Maybe Elyseum acorn is a trap
twilit orbit
i've started equipping acorn for elysium recently
but I find that I keep getting charges popped randomly when theseus does his gun attack
and it makes me mad every time that happens
ripe crane
Probably best to stay out of the middle if possible since he runs through there all the time anyway
@true fable https://www.twitch.tv/videos/789521328
twilit orbit
its mostly when he's on the other side of the screen and I can't see him
and then he appears out of nowhere shooting bullets that do like 10 damage
😦
cerulean frigate
elysium acorn is mostly about making sure you don't lose any DDs you pick up when running SD LC4
and blocking bull charge
ripe crane
Yee, it's definitely much safer. I will likely always still run it.
Silly, as long as you have divine dash and are moving as much as possible, you will often deflect most of the bullets, or he will at least not eat all of your acorn
twilit orbit
its never the entire acorn
its usually like 1-2 charges that it eats
overall I guess blocking 3 hits from asterius is still probably worth it
since I usually dont have anything more important to take in elysium
its just one of those things that makes me annoyed for no reason
edgy arrow
3 hits from asterius is your SD gone
unless you have a lot of health
so i’d say it’s worth it, yeah
ripe crane
Pro gamers use spearpoint and get hit my the machine gun on purpose for a free Athena call every 7 seconds
ripe crane
Thanks 😄
twilit orbit
ah so the real pro strategy is to use spearpoint in the EM4 fight
just i-frame through dad's attacks by running into a butterfly
ripe crane
Correct. Also you have to somehow keep the butterfly ball around for all 3 phases.
Really though, I was on the fence about acorn too for quite a while. I liked spearpoint more. Then the more practice I got, the more I was able to avoid getting comboed, and the more value I got out of acorn.
cerulean frigate
phase 1 is the hardest part usually
ripe crane
Basically the more you play and the better you get, the more you will appreciate those 5 free hits
Also yes, phase 1 is butt
cerulean frigate
and preserving acorn into phase 2 can save you from doggo
ripe crane
cerulean frigate
alright, i'm really struggling to put together a build on achillies spear. you know, underneath the cast. the spear part, given it is more than a wizard staff
ripe crane
False, it is only for casting spells
rustic tree
Wow 55
The highest are all rama and eris
I can't exert beat 38 and these people beat 55
Insanity
rustic tree
Bow is my favorite, but only because of flurry shot, which rama doesn't have
I found rama to be too slow for me
cerulean frigate
it feels slow but it is extremely fast at killing bosses and rooms where it isn't small enemy spam
rustic tree
Anyone have tips on surviving as bow? It's tough to dodge midshot
twilit orbit
eris has been proven by many great players to be a top tier weapon
rama is probably really good as well in the right hands but there's a bit less data because the majority of the rama runs are just one really, really good player using the weapon
uh
dash attack a lot
rustic tree
eris has been proven by many great players to be a top tier weapon
rama is probably really good as well in the right hands but there's a bit less data because the majority of the rama runs are just one really, really good player using the weapon
@twilit orbit
That's amazing lol
twilit orbit
dash attacks with the bow charge faster than normal attacks
so you can get off the meaty powershot with less time locked standing in place
cerulean frigate
dash strike boon from chaos is a huge deal in a rama run
ember bronze
Well now that I know you can use Athena call to not lose to TD, just doing it all the time... https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/1323154969399156737
ember bronze
A common topic of discussion in this channel 😛
dire steppe
wdym “you can use athena call to not lose to TD”
doesn’t it only negate it for like the 2 seconds
rustic tree
I did 37, but for some reason, even adding on one more point makes it too much for me
ember bronze
well, 11 seconds
cerulean frigate
athena greater call lasts 6x longer
cerulean frigate
also i just lost 2 dds to asterius. hmm yes i will charge 6 times in a row and bs 180 turn every time, as well as never run into a pillar
that's what i get for not taking acorn
true fable
i just hit hades for 8000 with rama blinding flash
this stuff kind of gets out of control quickly
ember bronze
That explains the blinding flash + Than videos that someone was linking somewhere
Unrelatedly
what all counts for PS besides boons?
(Talos, Gilgamesh, Rama?)
ember bronze
ok, someone was telling me otherwise
cerulean frigate
and i got tiny vermin chamber 1 teleport spam. and blizzard shot is my damage
ugh
that took 2 minutes
im so dead lmao
5 sack too pllssssssss
ember bronze
Is this a bug? https://imgur.com/a/WX30ArV
dire steppe
must be a new secret heat option, all your boon modifiers suck
ember bronze
That is a heat, it's Routine Inspection 😛
cerulean frigate
common in erebus gate oof
ember bronze
(But, bug question is, white boon in Erebus)
limber ocean
Erebus doesn't guarantee that Boons are Rare or better.
ember bronze
Don't skull rooms (erebus and miniboss) do that?
limber ocean
Looking at the code, it's just 90% Rare.
ember bronze
ah
limber ocean
Also I've just did the same challenge myself: 32 heat with 18 different aspects
ember bronze
Nice!
dire steppe
why 18 and not 24? avoiding the dreaded zag sword?
limber ocean
I can't do any of the swords. I did get lucky with the Poseidon's once.
And yes, not aiming for all 24 aspects leaves me some headroom so I don't have push myself too hard.
cerulean frigate
why is triple soul catcher em4 a thing tbh
ember bronze
I just didn’t feel like doing zag aspects since they’re really plain
cerulean frigate
noooooo i was so close on a zag 32 heat win. but dad laser, i went to block it, the shockwave pushed me back super far, into an urn
urned again
dawn narwhal
tepid mural
(But, bug question is, white boon in Erebus)
erebus and bosses room have a higher chance of getting rare and better, but not guaranteed
Afaik
sly remnant
Uhhhh is that true? Erebus rooms are supposed to be guaranteed "double" rewards. Even if its by design its wildly inconsistent with player expectation
tardy path
@ember bronze I think you got a common, because you rerolled
If I'm not mistaken Erberus will give you epic boons, but only initially. Re-rolling puts you with the chance of losing those boon rarities
misty hamlet
Why do people hate Zag aspects 😦
ripe crane
Generally unimpactful abilities. I like the Zag shield, fists, and rail in some circumstances though
sly remnant
zag aspects are fine just vanilla
which is fine. their job is to teach fundamentals in the game. they aren't supposed to be flashy
tardy path
Zag aspect rail is one of my favorite aspects!
proud jay
zag rail stronk
edgy arrow
wait i thought there was only one rail aspect
edgy arrow
ah, that's right
mossy zinc
You forgot Sniperis.
ripe crane
Tfw you don't even play a real weapon 
zealous ferry
what should I take for heat above 10? I currently have Extreem Measures 1-3, Middle Management, Tight deadline 1... but im struggling to make it past this difficulty
underworld customs is not bad either,,, but im struggling
ripe crane
Where do you find yourself having the most trouble?
zealous ferry
i usually die either in the hades fight or elysium boss...
i changed my death defiance to stubborn defiance so chamber clears dont affect me as much as prev, but boss fights now are somewhat challenging
edgy arrow
SD is prolly worse than DD if you're not running LC
you may lose a few early here and there, but you can buy them back surprisingly regularly
and like, Patty is good on SD, but he can be totally bonkers on DD lol
zealous ferry
oh
ripe crane
EM3 is a really tough fight. Consider things like benefits package 1, underworld customs, convenience fee instead
Or try equipping the acorn keepsake for Elyseum and Hades fight if you want to keep EM3
edgy arrow
^
zealous ferry
i need the heat tho, i die mostly at hades than EM3 fights, its just sometimes if i dont get enough or thr right boons i will loose to them
edgy arrow
switching to acorn for the latter half of the game was kind of a game changer for me
never looked back
zealous ferry
i see, usually i equip pom blossom to up my core boons if possible
cause by then usually i have my basic boons
but no poms
edgy arrow
that's risky in elysium
if you have random stuff or like, Divine Dash, then it's bonuses can be wasted
ripe crane
Just deflect it bro
cerulean frigate
i took splash dash
zealous ferry
if i dont want the acorn yet... skull earing?
cerulean frigate
i'll have to deflect the arrows with a death defiance
edgy arrow
i have this issue where my muscle memory tried to deflect when i take splash dash
too much athena for me
zealous ferry
idk man :< i think pom blossom is usually my go to, if not a god's keepsake to get a specific boon
edgy arrow
if you want an offensive buff through elysium, i actually recommend bone hourglass
if there're good items in the inter zone pool especially
zealous ferry
oh right,,, i actually havent tried bone hourglass all that much
cerulean frigate
the problem with pom blossom is it does very little in tartarus, asphodel, and elyisum. and it gets unreliable at hitting the boons you want it to
edgy arrow
it can be ridiculously good on cast builds, but its solid for other stuff as well imo
^
cerulean frigate
especially if you are taking mid shops, event rooms, etc for TD3
sly remnant
i run bone hourglass all the time at HL5 EM4 FO2 beowulf
cerulean frigate
and not taking a defense keepsake for dad is spooky af
zealous ferry
im really sad tho... i had such a good build on my 12 heat run with aspect of beowolf... but i died to hades close to death T-T
edgy arrow
pom blossom really excited me when it was added, but like, i don't want to take it in tartarus, asphodel is too short for it to do much, and the later zones i have too many boons for it to be reliable
zealous ferry
should have defo taken DD instead of SD
cerulean frigate
beowulf is one of the easiest em4 weapons
edgy arrow
truth
cerulean frigate
just getting there on time can be challenging
edgy arrow
nah beo's fast
zealous ferry
YAAA but underworld customs took away my hermes buff on the charge time so like im still getting used to the slow charge
i missed quite a few times i admit
but beowolf vv fun
sly remnant
100% beowulf is all about how you play the early game
zealous ferry
i had such a good run except on the last battle
sly remnant
you need a way to deal with armor in elysium, but after that the end of beo runs are a cakewalk
sly remnant
do you like stygian soul or infernal soul
zealous ferry
oh ya btw aspect of gilgamesh with breaching cross hammer upgrade shreds armour easier than health it is amazing
edgy arrow
unbooned zag fists shreds armour with breaching cross tbh
its a pretty ridiculous hammer
900%? yeah, that seems like a normal number that should be in the game 😛
zealous ferry
to be fair, the fists base dmg sucks on armour... maybe losing out to the bow and spear
bow is pretty bad at armoured enemies
sly remnant
yea elysium is probably the hardest part of fists runs outside of hades
cerulean frigate
it's comparable to breaching skewer or breaching slash on paper but in practice fist dash strikes are very fast and easily repeatable
edgy arrow
the only thing that compares is piercing volley on chiron in my experience
zealous ferry
out of all the aspects on the fists,,, I think aspect of gilgamesh more my style... i like the evasion even if i dont use miam often
cerulean frigate
piercing volley kind of sucks, even on chiron. it just makes the arrows behave oddly on chiron
edgy arrow
they still hit the target
cerulean frigate
concentrated volley will shred armor and hp all the same
edgy arrow
idk, i'm no chiron expert by armour disappears pretty quickly with piercing
yeah concentrated is better ofc
zealous ferry
concentrated volley is so good if u have hangover or chill with arctic blast
i did that with a run with rama
cerulean frigate
i'd argue that if you have drunken flourish you aren't interested in special hammers to begin with now that it's an 8 arrow volley
better to get stuff like perfect shot, twinsies, etc
edgy arrow
idk about twin in chiron tbh
zealous ferry
im not the biggest fan of twin
cerulean frigate
it's not that bad. and they even buffed the twin shot range
zealous ferry
i main hera bow so i dont like it
cerulean frigate
still wouldn't take twin on hera though, still just a little too short in the hades fight
but the spacing is perfectly acceptable on chiron
zealous ferry
eris or lucifer aspect?
edgy arrow
as in, which is better?
zealous ferry
yeah for high heat runs
edgy arrow
eris is the best aspect in the game, basically
lucifer struggles with high heat
so eris by a big margin lol
cerulean frigate
eris is miles ahead of the other rails
cerulean frigate
hestia is still good at high heat, crepes recently did a 47
it's just a very narrow playstyle overall i think
zealous ferry
also very happy since i just got the woodland theme, so like my menus are prettier now XD
edgy arrow
happened recently
cerulean frigate
did he get an attack boon before elysium this time 
edgy arrow
idk lol i haven't seen the run yet
cerulean frigate
i've been tabbing out of this 20 heat eris run. just getting titan blood to level up dem fists really. i got splitting bolt in chamber 11 so it's been pretty 
ripe crane
Boons were 👌, got epic artemis attack in Asphodel. Though I recently realized that I opened the codex for a couple seconds after a Than room, pretty sure this will not get accepted to speedrun.com now 
edgy arrow
the codex tech was patched out, right?
ripe crane
I thought it was too, really just did it out of habit. It did still stop the timer though. Very depressing that I did that. Didn't affect the run at all, but still a disqualification I imagine
Guess I just have to do 51 🤷♀️
twilit orbit
is codex not allowed in speedruns?
cerulean frigate
is there a better feeling than having Theseus park his chariot to bask in the attention of the crowd so you can park a cluster bomb w/ deadly flourish on top of him
ripe crane
No they recently made it a rule that you can't open a codex unless you're in a room that already has the timer stopped
edgy arrow
i think it still stops the timer, but now it actually pauses the game properly?
so it can't be used to save time
that was my understanding, anyway
twilit orbit
wait does that mean that I cant plan out boons with codex?
cerulean frigate
you can in rooms where timer is stopped
twilit orbit
like there is an aphro door and an artemis door in front of me and I open codex to look at which boons I can get from both to decide where to go
sounds like that would not be allowed
and the alternative would be to pause and manually look up the boons online
ripe crane
I blame legerdamayn for telling me about it in the first place
bronze viper
I have a couple of sub 50 runs that do it but yeah you probably shouldn't if you're intending to submit to speedrun.com lol.
true fable
crepes i watched your run because i was wondering how you dealt with DC on hestia
but its good to know the best way to is to just not run it
LOL
cerulean frigate
i really dislike how damage control is sort of either "free" heat or cripplingly bad
mossy zinc
They could just give a penalty rather than straight-up DQ the run lol.
gaunt fiber
But with Hestia, you could just empty a magazine before power reloading right ? To deal with DC
mossy zinc
Or take Eris.
twilit orbit
does speeder increase the rate at which savior enemies generate shields?
I lost a run to a room full of speeder savior spear exalted in elysium
and it felt like I could basically never kill them because they would all chase after me in a deathball and constantly give eachother full shields
cerulean frigate
i like how that 46 heat arthur run tailesque did is basically just ghetto nemesis
ripe crane
If they reject the run I will ask if they consider a time penalty. I'm not really concerned about the time, it's more just so people know 50 is possible on Hestia. Also yeah, DC is just about the worst thing you can take on Hestia. Though CP seems less bad than on other weapons because you overkill by such a large amount that the increased health often doesn't matter. Not always, but more often than other weapons.
That's a good question Silly, it seems possible. I've experienced that with skulls and bomb dudes in Asphodel. Didn't consider that speeder could be why the shields are so hard to control.
cerulean frigate
speeder and forced overtime affects savior pulse rate, im like 85% sure
true fable
its tough
ripe crane
I would imagine forced overtime does, and if it's just the same mechanic then yeah speeder probably does affect it. What a gross combo
cerulean frigate
savior isn't bad on its own but the fact that it can be applied to gross stuff like numbskull or witch swarms is miserable
true fable
cloning savior numbskulls :^)
cerulean frigate
cloning isn't too bad since you have time before the clones pop in once you clear the first wave
gg if you walk into a cloning seeking witch spam chamber in tartarus before you've even got a decent boon though
ripe crane
I have been take Athena as my first boon and aggressively dashing through skulls. That 10-14 damage adds up quickly
Actually if you want DC on Hestia, that might be the best way to manage it
twilit orbit
i feel like savior is usually okay except when you get groups of savior enemies together, then it becomes a nightmare to deal with
its definitely one of the ones that has the potential to be really bad
cerulean frigate
longspear stacks are just super gross in general and bp amplifies that anywhere from a little bit to enough to feel like you've been debuffed by dad's boiling blood
longspear on its own? even just a couple? i sleep. 5 longspears in a cluster refusing to seperate? pain time
ripe crane
I'm always surprised when one chunks me for 48 with a single attack. I really underestimate them.
cerulean frigate
they're easy to kite but that little leap they do has no telegraph even on fo0
and they can go straight into stabbing time
mossy zinc
I'm not really concerned about the time, it's more just so people know 50 is possible on Hestia.
The spreadsheet by Krashercorr pinned here is still the only leaderboard that ranks by heat, anyway.
Longspears leap definitely has a telegraph.
misty hamlet
So savior is the name of the shielding elite upgrade?
twilit orbit
yeah
misty hamlet
If I’m using a slower weapon and I’m offered Ares i often end up taking his dash just for that
And then sell it going out of Tartarus
So it can chew up savior shields while I run in a panicked circle
true fable
wait is it actually dfw wobbles
pog
for hestia are best hammers usually piercing + ricochet or is there something im missing
ripe crane
Explosive is also good but I don't think it's as good as those two
ember bronze
I think those are what I had for my 32 Hestia
both are pretty great
(though I'm not even sure how they work together)
ripe crane
Pierce kicks in after it ricochets
ripe crane
Love getting offered deadly reversal even with AP2. High heat strat: just be lucky
mossy zinc
That's a good tip.
true fable
high heat strat: just pray
mossy zinc
I only pray to Lady Aphrodite.
Always. All of the time. In fact, I'm doing it right now.
LOVE CONQUERS ALL! 💗
ripe crane
Then why can't I finish a run with heartbreak strike
ripe crane
Wow... Heartbreak strike indeed
signal nova
Hi there,
I'm tryharding the level 32 for the 3rd thanos reward, does anyone have tips? I actually play with zeus shield and always losing at thesee
any build to force or else ?
mossy zinc
I don't really play Zeus Aspect. What pacts are you using, though?
Are you using the Acorn in Elysium?
mossy zinc
imgur link works.
signal nova
TD2 ?
mossy zinc
Tight Deadline at rank 2.
signal nova
oh the timer ?
signal nova
i'm sorry, my game is in french, i don't even know english names x=
mossy zinc
You have like 7 minutes per regions. It's a lot of time.
signal nova
i'll try for it
mossy zinc
Just pause the game when you have to make a decision at an exit.
TD2 gives you 3 Heat. Then I guess turn down Callisthénie to 0 and errr... Assemblée Générale to 2?
Could try it with that.
mossy zinc
I don't really know lol.
But.
Take Lady Athena's keepsake in Asphodel for Divine Dash if you don't have it yet.
And take Eurydice's keepsake for Elysium + Styx.
signal nova
Eurydice ? hum i'm not sure who it is, it's the singer girl right ?
signal nova
yes so i should look for her and athena dash upgrade
mossy zinc
5 hits of invincibility in boss fights.
true fable
some people seem to like curse of agony divine flourish merciful end for zeus
signal nova
hum never seen this i guess
3 hit with the totem
i use it for thesee
oh
nvm maybe it's 5 after upgrade
mossy zinc
Yeah, that one!
unreal pasture
Does Aphrodite's legendary have an ICD?
mossy zinc
Probably. No idea.
unreal pasture
Yea, I was just thinking of trying a bow build... something with the highest proc rate to figure out
And shotgunning bosses to see if you could permacharm
twilit orbit
I assume that it has an internal cooldown
otherwise chiron bow would literally permanently stunlock bosses
twilit orbit
its not quite that powerful but its still pretty good
still interrupts boss animations very frequently
unreal pasture
It's a consistent way to cheese bosses... I'd say that's kind of consistent
twilit orbit
its just not braindead free and you still have to occasionally dodge attacks
unreal pasture
But it is contingent on a lot of RNG to get a legendary so 🤷♂️
twilit orbit
i found it fairly straightforward to get
aphro special is really good, and afterwards sweet surrender/broken resolve are both fairly good boon choices
and they lead naturally into the legendary
unreal pasture
I'm not a fan of Broken Resolve... generally, since I'd prefer just to keep reapplying every 3s, but... yeah, I guess it's fine if you're forced onto something like Crush Shot
ember bronze
Fast-attacking builds are very good with Unhealthy Fixation though
twilit orbit
wait did I get the names mixed up
ember bronze
I don't know the exactly proc mechanics, but you can interrupt Hades quite often regardless
twilit orbit
i was thinking of the one that made enemies deal less damage
ember bronze
so it's just a lot of free defense
twilit orbit
not the one that increases weak duration
ember bronze
Btw, how long are Charms on Hades (say from Aphrodite call or anything else)?
Seem to be about 1 sec?
twilit orbit
they're roughly 1 second-ish from my experience, though I've never sat there and timed it
mossy zinc
Maybe 50%? I dunno. It's longer if you have better duration on Aphrodite's Aid, anyway.
ember bronze
That's what I was wondering--does it get better with poms?
ornate dust
any tips on 32 heat spear run?
cerulean frigate
which aspect
ornate dust
achilles or guan yu
twilit orbit
i struggled with 32 heat spear for a few hours and eventually did it with a special based build
being ranged is just so nice imo
i used hades spear with exploding launcher hammer, but you could replicate that with the base guan yu special
cerulean frigate
electric shot or flood shot on achillies I'd say. electric better at room clearing, flood better at bosses. if you go the flood route you want mirage shot ASAP, and if you see demeter blizzard shot is worth getting for late elysium/styx/Hades.
crush or phalanx are also good if you want to go the parting shot route instead.
for guan yu you're mostly looking for charged skewer deadly floruish now? idk. the change to the dash attack input buffering has put serrated point in a weird place.
ember bronze
I just did GY 32 with Deadly Fourish/Charged Skewer, but damage felt pretty weak
ripe crane
I think I'm gonna try a run with TD2 instead of TD3. Seems radical, I know
RI2 and AP1 just gives you slow builds so often. Maybe this can make up for it
gaunt fiber
In general or for a specific aspect ?
true fable
parting shot + blinding flash confirmed also bugs
man im gonna miss these huge backstab numbers
ripe crane
For 51 Hestia astaos
Ya one of the Hades reps told me that they were aware of the bug and are working on it now
mossy zinc
That's what I was wondering--does it get better with poms?
Yes.
hollow lynx
i hope y’all have been f10’ing these
unreal pasture
@ember bronze I think I read somewhere that the charm duration is cut by a % on bosses... I think 1/5th?
true fable
crepes did your hestia 50 get verified
karmic sail
Does the boon that gets crossed out not get rerolled by fated persuasion?
mossy zinc
They all get rerolled.
karmic sail
Ah, so I guess I did just get unlucky the attack boon I wanted was crossed out both times. Thanks
mossy zinc
Happens.
true fable
it actually just senses whichever boon you want and crosses it out
karmic sail
I'm just starting to ramp heat so I'm still learning how things work
true fable
this is factual
karmic sail
Lol
ember bronze
Turns out losing your best thing 1/3 of the time means it happens a lot during a run
true fable
just lost another 32 beowulf run to speeder slugger chariots
life is pain
how do people do beowulf in elysium everything felt fine and then i got demolished by armor
mossy zinc
@true fable block.
mossy zinc
That was genuine advice lol.
You should have enough DPS from your casts to take them down quickly by Elysium, anyway.
true fable
but yeah im gonna try it haha
i think i probably should have reset when i didnt get chaos cast stone or fully loaded
elysium with 1 cast stone on stygian feels hard
unreal pasture
hypnos advice best advice
true fable
hey when he said dont get it
unreal pasture
Oh yeah... if you have one cast zzz, did you Trippy Flare?
true fable
i tried to get hit less and it helped
yeah trippy flare
idk higher highs but lower lows
unreal pasture
Trippy Flare's base damage is nuts... but I'm not sure if worth
true fable
feels so nice once you get even one more cast stone
unreal pasture
Yea
true fable
but when you dont you kind of feel anemic
unreal pasture
I had one where I had Zeus cast and that scales surprisingly well... because of all the bolt boons
But Zeus, I guess
mossy zinc
I'd actually just force Lady Artemis in Asphodel to try for Fully Loaded. Pressure Points > Support Fire.
Trippy Flare is great.
Hourglass for +1 ammo from Wells isn't a bad idea, either.
true fable
i like the hourglass but felt like i needed the acorn for heroes
didnt even make it there
twas sad
will try arty in asphodel next time probably
always seems like i run out of arty boons unless i get a native arty in tartarus
mossy zinc
You can do EM2 at 32 if the fight is hard. Can make things a lot easier since you won't really need Acorn in Elysium.
But you could also just take it in Asphodel.
Then make sure you check the Well before Elysium before you swap keepsakes there.
unreal pasture
It did seem like unhealthy fixation did have some sort of ICD... because I had 12 shots per special with 30% special speed...
south cedar
just did my first sub 20 minute run jeeeeej , it was also my first clear with EM3 active
this discord helps a lot tho :p
rustic tree
Congrats
wanton plover
nice peepohappy
tidal flame
what is your worst RNG run?
That's right, ya boy got to 17 chambers with 2 boons (had to sell one for UC), then go Eurydice with 1 boon not worth anything.
then this happens. notice the 1 charge on Athena's keepsake.
true fable
cursed
tidal flame
that's also right, ya boy didn't even get an Athena boon afterward (albeit i did pick artemis over athena for mini boss, hoping there must be another boon coming up
right, right???
died at Heroes due to TD, who would have thunk T.T
rustic tree
What's td
sly remnant
tight deadline
rustic tree
Ah
true fable
im currently at 10% move speed off of two chaos gates
odds this third one puts me at 0?
tidal flame
imagine if dash distance scales off movement speed
you can accidentally soft lock yourself
true fable
i was offered 0% move speed but i just couldnt bring myself to do it
not even for content
tidal flame
always throw for content
true fable
just doesnt feel possible to escape them if you're missing either athena dash or extra dashes when they have speeder on
but im probably just bad
twilit orbit
you have to dash through terrain and they will sometimes lose aggro
at least from my experience
but running from chariots is hard when they're fast
gaunt fiber
I'm not even getting to Elysium consitently at 40 heat and you remind me of flamewheelers lol
damn
edgy arrow
40 heat felt doable until elysium again
@true fable this is my life
“this is fine, i can play high heat wym, ezpz”
gets out of asphodel
“oh no”
true fable
i think i probably need to SD LC4
i was hanging on since 36 heat was doable with DDs
but uh
yeah nope
gaunt fiber
SD LC4 is fine
edgy arrow
it actually grew on me pretty quickly
twilit orbit
i find that with SD LC4 hades becomes much harder
the fight is so long and im not good enough at avoiding his attacks perfectly yet
true fable
yeah not looking forward to SD LC4 EM4
gaunt fiber
well it's not EM4 so
edgy arrow
yeah boss fights are harder for sure
twilit orbit
so I make too many mistakes and die because my hp pool is smaller with SD
true fable
staying far far away from EM4 with LC4 on
edgy arrow
i’ve yet to do EM4 with it ngl
twilit orbit
the other boss fights are doable
edgy arrow
that’s my next hurdle to tackle
true fable
EM3 feels awful but thats just because my natural instinct is to fight the bull mano a mano
which it turns out is not a good idea
edgy arrow
the other day i got 2 athena DDs for hades and then didn’t even use them lol
gaunt fiber
Yeah Hades is not someone to look down on
true fable
edgy arrow
but then i have to deal with TD3 EM4
true fable
woops
edgy arrow
which is a whole different issue
true fable
thoughts on this setup for 40 heat rail
i considered TD3 but got demolished by it last time so idk
edgy arrow
that looks decent to me
true fable
i just turned of CP and did TD3 instead idk
edgy arrow
i’d probably drop the CP and AP, take TD3 and maybe a little HL personally
yeah
but it can prolly work as is
edgy arrow
truth
a couple of ranks doesn’t hurt that much tho
pretty sure i did eris 40 without HS as well, as i’m scared of urns lol
twilit orbit
i dont like HL because it makes the parts of the game that I struggle with even harder
edgy arrow
if you can grab sure footing you’ll be fine tho
twilit orbit
which is namely the hades fight
him dealing more damage just means that I can make less mistakes before I die
true fable
i got 8 boons in tartarus
then forgot i lost my stubborn defiance in a room in asphodel
and tried to die
:^)
i am in pain
edgy arrow
it’s happened to all of us
true fable
how do i spin dash with spear
edgy arrow
i almost yeeted my athena DD for no reason yesterday
true fable
i can do the dash and then spin
edgy arrow
remembered just in time
true fable
but i cant do the spin then dash
true fable
then release after you press dash?
twilit orbit
it releases automatically when you dash
you need to have charged it past a certain point though
if you havent charged it enough you'll just dash without spinning
twilit orbit
its the biggest thing I had to practice while learning hades spear
twilit orbit
mini spins are fine since the range is so big on hades
edgy arrow
idk if i’ve ever done a dash spin except by accident
twilit orbit
its mostly just about consistently applying the debuff to enemies
and dash spins are a much safer way to hit them with the spin
edgy arrow
true
twilit orbit
yeah I started playing it because I wanted to learn the spear and saw that tailesque had a 50 heat run with it
and it's actually pretty fun
though I did find it kind of inconsistent
true fable
watching tail's hades run actually expanded my brain
twilit orbit
with some other weapons it doesnt matter as much if you dont get the perfect build because the aspect itself is so powerful, but I've found that the spear feels a bit underwhelming unless you get the right boons
either that or im just bad with it lol
rocky lark
Hades is pog for high heat
true fable
hades spear makes me feel like a ballerina
true fable
taking hunters mark with dc 2 on makes me feel quite silly
ripe crane
At least it's not battle rage
true fable
crepes you're an absolute legend
ripe crane
I just like the funny noise hestia makes when you reload 
true fable
why high heat? for the sound fx
ripe crane
more heat = gotta reload faster = more sound
true fable
does anyone use anything other than ME for fists
or is it just ME all the way to the top
rustic tree
What's ME
true fable
https://imgur.com/gczL16P i hate it here what do i do
ME is merciful end
athena/ares duo boon
does draining cutter even work on SD LC4
ripe crane
I think Tail used Zeus on his 50 heat demeter run, and is what I will be trying also I think
rustic tree
I never knew ME was really good on fists...how do you use it
Punch doom then dash deflect?
true fable
yes
divine flourish is a prerequisite to be offered the duo so you need that too
i guess im taking draining cutter because heavy knuckle actively hurts
remains to be seen whether it heals
rapid egret
Why is opening your codex frowned upon in the speedrunning community?
I see them pause all the time, but if you open the codex suddenly the run is invalid? I don't get it.
true fable
codex pauses the timer without pausing the game
so its currently banned
until the team fixes it
ripe crane
Is anyone here bright01 on Twitch?
true fable
that is moi