oh, no alt F4s
#h1-high-heat-strategies
maiden geode
dire steppe
how should I start getting into high heat runs? i was wondering if I should just turn on FO2 to get better reflexes and get used to that lol and then do the other heats
sly remnant
if you want to do 40+ you have to start thinking about FO2
the best time to learn FO2 was yesterday. the second best time is now
rocky hinge
I Practice with FO and extreme measures maxed out
sly remnant
^same
solar laurel
FO EM4 as melee 😓
dire steppe
honestly even 32 is a massive stretch for me
i have no interest in turning on TD ever
rocky hinge
Tight deadline at 7 is free heat imo
dire steppe
my fastest clear is 35 minutes
rocky hinge
oh dang
solar laurel
Atleast you can easily improve that a lot
dire steppe
i mean probably a lot of that is just standing there thinking of what i’m doing tho
and i could pause
but like idk just seems not fun
rocky hinge
ye to me underworld customs is the biggest burden
dire steppe
i’d vibe with TD more if it only ran during fights lol
edgy arrow
the pause menu stops the in game timer, so if you’re sitting there making choices you can do that for free if you pause
dire steppe
i know, i saw that in videos
edgy arrow
but there’s not really any need to turn it on if you don’t find it fun
dire steppe
i’m sure i can probablt deal with like 9 or 7 minutes if i’m getting close to some heat bounty threshold
edgy arrow
i did my first 32 without it, so you can defiantly delay it a good while
dire steppe
but idk still have a lot to go with getting aspects unlocked
rama bow looks fun but i’d need to grab like 15 bloods
solar laurel
You can trade bloods if you want to speed things up
edgy arrow
you don’t necessarily need to max it
rama shouldn’t be too bad at low levels
well, that’s dependant on how much heat you run ofc
dire steppe
thanks for all the tips guys :)
tidal flame
This is my run but not my save file, this is Haelian's maxed file. I would never ruin my 6x32 beautiful set up 
mossy zinc
You've actually been doing some pretty high heats lately.
Something changed that you're interested in doing high heat again?
I remember you kind of gave up to just focus on speedruns.
And 32.
tidal flame
idk, i don't feel like being dismissed in high heat discussion so I guess I should put in some work. I die at furies like 70% of the time
but if I get past that, i get p far
mossy zinc
Same tbh lol.
lavish cliff
I'm kind of stuck on 15+ heat. I'm getting stuck with EM4 final boss
I'm able to get all the way to the final boss with full health and 3 DDs and most times, he takes me down
tidal flame
EM4 is tough. What I would suggest is to make a practice save file and just do the fight a lot. I faced the same predicament with EM3, after 2 hours of just doing it over and over again I can get past the Heroes consistently now.
ripe crane
No need to run EM4 at 15 heat unless you really want to.
lavish cliff
The double spin attack always gets me
And I haven't figured out the low light fight yet
can't track him very well or the vases that get spawned
lavish cliff
that's cheating lol
tidal flame
is it?
lavish cliff
Definitely
mossy zinc
I don't like to do that either lol.
tidal flame
you and I have very different definition of cheating
ripe crane
It doesn't let you see any more than you normally would, it just lets you see better
tidal flame
is playing on a good controller like the Razer Elite also cheating?
lavish cliff
The intent is that your vision is obscured, and you have to model the arena in your head without reference. Removing that removes the intent of the challenge
ripe crane
Your vision is still obscured
lavish cliff
Circumstances of play is w/e. Modifying your game input to be more aligned with your intention is not cheating
tidal flame
if you are given some tools to use, it's not cheating.
but then again, you and I have different definition of "cheating"
lavish cliff
Changing the challenge is cheating, even though you have the option to change configuration for accessibility purposes, you're using the options to circumvent the fake darkness in the game
ripe crane
The darkness is literally still there
tidal flame
A) It's not a complete "you can see everything now."
B) People have been using settings such as color blind mode, no screenshake, no particle effects, etc. in video games to increase clarity since forever.
mossy zinc
It certainly is. If you don't want to turn up the brightness, you don't want to do it. There are ways to deal with the fight without doing that.
lavish cliff
It just depends on what's at stake and what the intention of the effect is
Screenshaking can cause people to get ill, and the purpose is to provide some motion-intensity. If I was playing a competitive multiplayer game for money I would turn it off, but like for my fun single player challenge game, I want to stick to what the developers intend within reason
tidal flame
Sure, but when you call it "cheating," you kinda impose a moral judgement on those who don't think the same. But to each their own, we can leave it there.
mossy zinc
Cheaters. 🔫 
gaunt fiber
what about FPS players who change their resolution then, if you consider brightness being cheat 
tidal flame
If I was playing a competitive multiplayer game for money I would turn it off, but like for my fun single player challenge game, I want to stick to what the developers intend within reason
This would be their response.
mossy zinc
Cheaters. 🔫
tidal flame
It's fine for multiplayer games, but he doesn't want to do it for single player game.
Which is a perfectly reasonable stance.
I just don't like calling other people preferences "cheating."
gaunt fiber
Nyan bot has crashed, help her
lavish cliff
It’s cheating in that I don’t want to do it and it lives in the greyzone about what is legitimate for completion of a challenge
It’s cheating for me, and my view is that I would put an asterisk to others for doing it
ripe crane
Personally I have my monitors dark and use screen yellowing/dimming software because of vision problems, I can see very little with normal brightness during the fight. That said, it helps during the fight and I would probably turn it up anyway :p
mossy zinc
It's rude to keep calling somebody something they said they don't like.
gaunt fiber
I did not understand it that way
solar valve
hey guys u got any reasonable heatbuild to avoid losing mirror bonuses?
tidal flame
to steer the conversation to a more general point. it's hard to see what the "intended" way to play is. I can use chaos shield without Tight Deadline, and sit in a corner, shield block and special only for 5 hours and eventually clear the game. Would people consider it cheating?
lavish cliff
No that’s clearly not cheating
tidal flame
Would you call it the intended way to play the game?
mossy zinc
Yes.
lavish cliff
Yeah for sure
mossy zinc
I bet that's how everyone at SGG plays.
Until I see evidence to the contrary, that's what I'm gonna believe.
lavish cliff
You’re using core mechanics of the game and you’re clearly not warping the play area or tools in the game. Nothing stops you from standing still
ripe crane
I'm just gonna say, Tailesque turns up the brightness and he's arguably the best player in the world soooo I'm not gonna feel bad doing it
gaunt fiber
It may just be a little bit boring
ripe crane
@solar valve what heat do you want play at?
gaunt fiber
But this is how I see shield users anyway
tidal flame
you’re clearly not warping the play area
I don't think this is true. I am having a hard time reconciliating your idea of "completing a challenge for the sake of the challenge" and "turtling behind a shield for 5 hours."
lavish cliff
@ripe crane that's also different because he's clearly competing for a real world title
Basically turned a single player game into a multiplayer competition
tidal flame
And the goal post keeps on moving
lavish cliff
I'm not judging you for changing brightness settings for yourself lol
I'm just saying I'm not going to do it for myself it would be cheating for me
mossy zinc
ripe crane
Funny and depressing. Ty South Park
ripe crane
@lavish cliff If you want actual advice, practice is really your best option for EM4. It is hard, but can be learned. You can make a copy of your save file right before the fight so your can replay it over and over if you want.
gaunt fiber
Be careful, that would be cheating
lavish cliff
I'm mainly having trouble finding a good time to cache in some damage, feels like i'm always dodging and that makes the fight so much harder
tidal flame
Your moment to strike is usually right after the double spin.
Another one is when he throws the skulls. I think the throws 2 skulls then lunge forward. He also points his spear where he would throw/lunge, so you can attack while he is doing that, just make sure you are behind him at all time.
This is a bit risky, but with some timing you can do it. Acorn helps with some stray hits you might receive.
When he summons the adds, I just ignore them to my best ability. They are too tanky to really kill imo. Other might do it differently.
mossy zinc
There's a single skull cast at the beginning of the fight, and in phase 1 part 4 he gets the skull > skull > thrust combo, also.
waxen relic
Tuning in late, but I know a point and click adventure where you had to turn the music settings on and off at one point to solve it.
But to each their own, I guess.
mossy zinc
Later, he loses the single skull cast and only retains the skull > skull > thrust combo.
tidal flame
Tuning in late, but I know a point and click adventure where you had to turn the music settings on and off at one point to solve it.
Out of curiosity, which game is that?
waxen relic
@tidal flame
Deponia. Dunno if it has a good English version
tidal flame
Thanks!
mossy zinc
I know a point-and-click adventure where you had to enter a randomly chosen word from a random page in the manual in order to progress.
And if you lost your manual, you could never progress past that point again.
I know many games like that, actually.
waxen relic
That's just mad
tidal flame
I know a game where you enter different rooms and you need to solve them by inputting multiple sequences of inputs to proceed. The fun thing is the rooms are pseudo-randomized so the challenge is new everytime.
mossy zinc
Hades.
tidal flame
Wow, how did you know?
mossy zinc
I'm a pro gamer.
Half a pro gamer, anyway.
I do the gaming with none of the pro'ing.
Nobody pays me to play games. 
ripe crane
Star Tropics on NES came with a piece of paper in the manual that you had to dip in water to reveal a code to start the submarine midway through the game. Ruined renting that game, back when that was a thing.
Unless you were cool and had a Nintendo Power subscription 😎
tidal flame
@daring hedge https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/770742240107823114/20201027151343_1.jpg
How did you lose one DD with 1 Acorn left?
trim sigil
TD
tidal flame
right. I realize that the moment I posted lmao
ripe crane
I would like to make it a goal to practice EM4 FO2 enough to finish with acorn
Not consistently, but once
mossy zinc
Ah, damn it.
I forgot to not perfect-catch again in Chaos.
I'll never see those common fish in Chaos or on the surface.
ripe crane
Cursed with being too good 😔
ebon night
I'm losing while doing farming runs 😦
mossy zinc
That's a negative way to look at it.
A more positive way is you're farming while doing losing runs.
You might be losing, but you're still accomplishing the farming. 
ebon night
I beat Theseus with 6hp
then two styx rooms with low hp
third one wasn't satyr sack either 😦
twilit orbit
do you have chthonic vitality?
I've been really liking it, especially how good it is in styx
ebon night
Yeah
verbal ember
im not really on "high" heat yet (9) but what effects do you guys recommend?
so far ive been going with LC1, EM2, BP1 and TD1/2
ebon night
I hate FO 😦
verbal ember
is benefits package 2 "okay"?
sly remnant
yes
ebon night
Yeah
verbal ember
or is that like, super hard
ebon night
It's easy 🙂
sly remnant
both BP and MM are super managealbe
verbal ember
like, 3 extra heat just for one lil bonus effect
oh yeah i usually have mm on too
forgot that up there
sly remnant
oh god i hate jury summons
verbal ember
im too scared of EM3
ebon night
You barely notice jury summons
verbal ember
mask theseus looks very menacing
ebon night
except on Elysium 😄
verbal ember
hes SO FAST
idk ok for now i'll try EM2, BP2 and TD1
with the bow and rail i dont like td2
thanks for the advice
ebon night
I'd learn EM3
just don't mix it with FO
FO sucks
at least if you're gem farming
I caught 4 legendaries and only made like 200 gems 😦
ripe crane
Gems or darkness? Gems come in pretty small bundles
Make sure to start with Poseidon if farming since he has boons that give you extra
verbal ember
how tf does the Bow's Dash Strike work
how do i do it
do i dash after drawing the arrow or do i dash before it
lapis lake
Dash before drawing it and you will start at the end, dash attacks with the bow charge up way quicker but deal a bit less damage
verbal ember
ok thanks
twilit orbit
are there any particularly attractive boons to take on rail?
so far I've just been forcing zeus attack and then randomly taking whatever boons the game offers me after that
I'm wondering there is something else I should be looking for that pairs particularly well with zeus rail (maybe aphro for smoldering air? artemis for support fire?)
twilit orbit
wait is sea storm even good
I'm taking zeus attack, not poseidon
I thought the sea storm build needed poseidon attack to constantly trigger the knockbacks
oh wait, are you suggesting that I just clear rooms by dashing around?
mossy zinc
Dash into everything and hold Attack lol.
twilit orbit
ah that makes sense
mossy zinc
Bruh.
twilit orbit
yes? :^)
mossy zinc
I tried to delay it. https://imgur.com/a/OzhLKab
twilit orbit
you're just too good
mossy zinc
Ooh nice. Congrats!
twilit orbit
are you submitting this to the speedrun leaderboard once they get a 40 heat category? 🙂
mossy zinc
Now you have to do all weapons 40 Heat sub 10.
daring hedge
are you submitting this to the speedrun leaderboard once they get a 40 heat category? 🙂
@twilit orbit absolutely! accidentally deleted the footage of my 12m 40 heat, and decided to go and try for a better time; ended up with a much better time
@mossy zinc do you think beowulf could do fairly fast 40 runs? with charged flight or even otherwise?
not that i would personally do them really
but i'd be interested if you ever did something of the sort
mossy zinc
I've only really done a handful of runs with Beowulf in 1.0.
Half of them on my hell mode safe where I don't have the mirror maxed and just did RI3 lol. Was kind of looking for my DPS and not really finding it.
But it could just be because I hadn't played Beowulf in months, dunno.
Finished rail bounties just now. I think I still need to do shield, and then I'm done.
dire steppe
AP3 when. Boons give nothing
daring hedge
RI4 AP3 boonless is the new wave
dire steppe
can’t forget UC3
mossy zinc
RI5, Zag starts with 1 HP.
dire steppe
certified guan yu moment
honest kernel
I feel like artemis is just the best
mint cobalt
SIS DIDNJDD
WHAT IS THAT TIME THOOOO
HOWWWWWWW
Also,
Congrats!!!!!! I literally have 0 clue how 9 minutes is even possible but regardless congrats!
cinder cave
I wish AP3 existed so the best players in the world can prove you can beat the game with no boons or hammers whatsoever
and then do it at 32 heat
ember bronze
Alright, since I've gotten stuck at going above 40
my first 40, recut to show it's unseeded, for the list: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/784981277
ember bronze
19:37
tidal flame
@daring hedge I see one Chaos boon. Did you get all three NPC room? I grind 32 heat a bit today and got no where near that. Got a 12:46 but without recording. Ended up settling with a meager 16 mins xD
mossy zinc
Only 10 min 25 sec slower than Tailesque's.
daring hedge
yeah, the run was overall really lucky
got all biome NPC rooms, two fountain chambers, and 2sack
tidal flame
Nice! I hope the new category comes out soon
daring hedge
same! i'm glad others like hamlette are running it too
you should do a 40 run as well fox nudge nudge
daring hedge
i believe in you
tidal flame
(and recorded, of course)
Honestly the pre run death makes editing a pain xD
But I get why it's there.
daring hedge
the 9:02 today was actually my second run after launching the game lol, only because the first i had to die just to set up for unseeded
daring hedge
100+streak% when
tidal flame
That's the true ambient%
ASMR Hades
Peaceful sound of one poor soul escaping the underworld
hollow lynx
red shade mukbang asmr
ripe crane
Anyone else feel like getting a relevant legendary in tartarus almost guarantees something is going to go wrong later
hollow lynx
i'd say no but then i remember i somehow died with an epic true shot + tart mirage shot build today, so yes
daring hedge
the 9:02 40 run is up now
mossy zinc
Ain't nobody got time to watch that.
daring hedge
also the chaos lunge curse being don't use your special was funny
daring hedge
mossy zinc
If it was sub 9, maybe . . .
daring hedge
so close 
mossy zinc
vagrant frost
tidal flame
@daring hedge what kind of trash run is this? skip Repulse Shot in favor of Point Blank Shot???
do you even 50+ heat bro?
mossy zinc
He does. Do you?
tidal flame
obviously he doesn't if he skips Repulse Shot
daring hedge
and why did he choose tiny vermin instead of the regular miniboss setup smh
terrible decision
mossy zinc
I think a yellow dog who can't do 50 should just stay quiet in the corner and not bother the real fox.
tidal flame
hard to keep silent when someone makes such an obvious mistake, smh my head
daring hedge
clearly i would've gotten sub-9m if i had just taken repulse
tidal flame
run is both blessed and cursed
if only you had twin before perfect/pbs
or no vermin
drowsy trench
I'll mostly do something stupid like attack with my fists with chaos boon
daring hedge
yeah lol, a couple things just holding it back from further greatness. that tiny vermin ticked me off pretty fierce when it showed up, but it was also probably my fastest tiny vermin kill ever
so it wasn't as bad as i feared
tidal flame
I'll mostly do something stupid like attack with my fists with chaos boon
That's rough, but in general, I still find using Chaos cursed ability not that bad, as long as it's not your main damage. But if you do, just follow the high heat strategies and don't get hit.
daring hedge
spamming a cursed ability was actually kinda fun, i hadn't really done it that recklessly before today
but rama also has the luxury of range to make that 1hp a little less dangerous so
ripe crane
I have never touched Gilgamesh, but those extra dashes look kinda tempting for Merciful End
Is it really that bad?
daring hedge
that's kind of the thing right there; it's arguably the best for merciful end but it's so inconsistent and hard to work with outside of that, especially at high heat
ripe crane
I'm gonna give it a go. Then probably hate it and never touch it again.
Doesn't help that the regular fists just feel so good
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/771186526225956884/unknown.png Got a 45 win with Lucifer, feels like triple bomb is the only way to actually get anything done with this aspect
Also slowly getting used to EM4 FO2
ripe crane
Looking at your boons, I can see why you might feel that way 😛
north dove
(5 other attempts not shown) 
ripe crane
Any number of attempts is impressive for 45 though. I have played super soak on lucy once, and that's the only time I ever enjoyed it
Definitley not for me
tidal flame
Not everyday you see a Hell Mode save around huh
ripe crane
The man is makin' it work tho
Aight gil ME is functional but wow it sure is pleasant to use
daring hedge
@north dove oh very nice, would you say deadly flourish is one of the best options for luci special overall?
north dove
That or Heartbreak yeah. Divine is also pretty nice since you can set up massive zones where everything gets deflected.
shadow lodge
just a quick question, but does BP not apply to all elites? running BP2 right now and noticing that the bother at the bottom left has no extra buffs, whereas the snakestone does https://puu.sh/GHS6W/c287869370.png
tidal flame
only one type of enemy can have BP, afaik
so some might have armor, but you will only see on type of enemy with BP2 per room
shadow lodge
ahh, good to know
shadow lodge
that does track with my experience, thinking about it—lol yeah
we don't need speedy shieldboys and chariots in the same room...
tidal flame
Speedster Cloning Skulls + Bruiser Savior Louts to protect them
shadow lodge
twilit orbit
i feel like BP is usually one of the easiest heats to deal with, except occasionally you get a combination of two abilities plus the perfect enemy and it sort of screws you
but most of the time the BP bonus effects dont really do much
tidal flame
Like most pacts, BP by itself doesn't do much
But in combination with each other, they can be a nightmare
There has been a couple of vids where people have unwinnable rooms, it's funny
twilit orbit
to be honest the worst BP rooms I've come across are usually numbskulls
tidal flame
I hate speedster chariot on HL5
twilit orbit
which is kind of funny because I normally think numbskulls are really weak/easy
tidal flame
they are DD eaters
twilit orbit
chariots are just my least favorite enemy type in the whole game
they deal a lot of damage and have way too much hp
tidal flame
I reserve that for shield guys
twilit orbit
i think shield guys are easier to deal with
I also really hate wave makers in asphodel
not because they're particularly hard but because they constantly run away from you
and it really bothers me
tidal flame
yeah those can be annoying, but once I get used to the audio cue of the waves
they aren't so bad
twilit orbit
its just that they spend so much time jumping across the map
and some asphodel maps are huge
it just tilts me mentally when I'm trying to chase them down
ripe crane
My vote is probably also shield guys and wavemakers. Quit jumpin' around and let me kill you
bronze viper
@daring hedge Just watched your 9 minute 40 heat. Every free room in the universe, but such a clean run regardless. Grats!
daring hedge
thank you! only needed a third fountain chamber and for tiny vermin to not exist
mossy zinc
I should maybe do some 40–49 with Rama sometime.
bronze viper
Speedrun.com has it as the 5th fastest any heat for bow? And you did it at 40 lmao. So good.
mossy zinc
I just go straight to 50 every time while I've played the aspect maybe 5 times since the Blood Price beta lol.
Well, I did one 32, I think, and then straight to 50.
daring hedge
i've been doing any heats tonight and so far my best is 8:23 lol, slightly over 30 seconds difference between 9 and 40 heat
i did have an incredibly blessed run that got ruined by 4sack, though
that would've been at least a minute faster
tidal flame
Which weapon do you use?
daring hedge
using rama for these still
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
daring hedge
congrats!
static plover
congrats 
ebon night
I really don't like FO
sour jackal
I played 20 or so runs in FO2, then took it off and it was bliss
ripe crane
Turn it on and then forget that turning it off is an option imo
cerulean frigate
TIL if a boon's rarity increases in the same room as a purging well from Rare Crop the sell price doesn't increase unless you reroll and see the option again
sly remnant
huh. thats a new one to me as well
I have a mechanics question actually. does me failing an erebus gate still put the boon i was attempting in the boon pool?
cerulean frigate
no
sly remnant
my gut says no, but i want to be sure
cerulean frigate
you never accepted the boon
tidal flame
@daring hedge just saw your any heat run. That feeling when you 5s Heroes without routing xD
daring hedge
@tidal flame that champs fight was so ridiculous lol
cerulean frigate
is there cast options anywhere near as fast as electric shot for Poseidon and Achilles aspects? I'd guess flood shot might be a runner up but i mean, electric shot just blitzes through rooms
mossy zinc
Electric Shot also has the advantage of often dropping even after hitting multiple enemies.
So I doubt there's anything faster for Achilles Aspect, personally.
Maybe for Poseidon Aspect, though.
cerulean frigate
yeah that was sort of the impression i was getting. i'm pretty late to the party with using those aspects since i don't tend to focus on casts at all
mossy zinc
I wouldn't consider much of the game solved, though, so you might find something better.
cerulean frigate
guess i'll stick to hera if i want variance in a cast build
i'd say beowulf but that's more like choosing the flavor of aoe color you want really
mossy zinc
And AOE size.
cerulean frigate
I'll play around with flood shot on Poseidon aspect, feel like there's potential in it with the goal being to switch to blizzard shot in late Elysium/Styx
mossy zinc
I think you'll want Mirage Shot as a priority.
cerulean frigate
but staying on flood intentionally until then
mossy zinc
Blizzard Shot second.
mossy zinc
But I'd prefer Talos for that.
cerulean frigate
it wouldn't blitz rooms as hard but you'd have deadly strike ideally to meet the requirements, and that'd likely be better for bosses. especially with something like the dash strike hammer or world splitter
and you'd actually have time to attack since blizzard shot sticks around for awhile
mossy zinc
With Talos you could just pull everything into your Blizzard Shot over and over again.
ember bronze
Full video of 41: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/785322570
mossy zinc
Should post those in #self-promotion.
ember bronze
Ok
Relatedly though, for people who saw the clip I posted last night
how do you avoid pots while he's healing?
ripe crane
Why avoid when your can just dash through and break them all, or shoot with a ranged weapon. You can also stop his heal that way, so it's often more effective than trying to out dps his heal.
Sorry I went back and watched your clip, I think there not dashing would actually be safest, since you can just walk around and shoot the pots
Of course in practice that's a lot harder to do when you have no time on the clock, some dude shredding a guitar is amping you up, and your brain kicks into "kill as fast as possible" mode.
ember bronze
Basically stand still and blast away with everything, watching for any pots that appear next to me
it's true I have such a habit of dashing through him constantly due to playing either Tidal Dash speed or Merciful End
ripe crane
Switching to a ranged weapon is a big mindset change. You can play safer I think as long as you're not sacrificing speed
twilit orbit
you have two hp bars
so dont take damage and you'll have so much extra buffer for TD!
ripe crane
EM4?
tidal flame
yeah
ripe crane
Don't think that was gonna happen no matter what then. Good attempt though!
tidal flame
Yeah ik. But hey, I got p far, twice.
ember bronze
I've done EM4 TD3 like 90s after the timer ended
if you luck out with HP resources (Patroclus) and play the fight clean (hard), it works if you don't panic
5HP/sec can go for a while if you have hundreds of HP worth of buffer
twilit orbit
quick question, at medium/high heats (like around 32ish) is it better to grab jolted or storm lightning on the gun?
obviously jolted is more damage upfront, but storm lightning opens up zeus legendary, which seems very powerful on the gun when I've had it
trim sigil
Depends on how highroll you wanna go
Granted, without gods legacy probably gotta focus on jolted as guaranteed benefit
strange rapids
jolted is also a good way to apply privileged status if you don't already have 2 reliable debuffs
cerulean frigate
you don't go for priv on eris because your goal is Zeus, Poseidon, Artemis
and you want the damage boost from Family Favorite in tartarus for your attack right away
plain plank
is that THE crabbar
plush pecan
it is
plain plank
plush pecan
i see he hasnt changed his discord pfp lol
cerulean frigate
I've played around more with flood shot on Poseidon aspect as promised. it's not as fast at room clearing as electric shot but it does feel a lot safer because of the knockback. and the damage per hit is high enough that I didn't feel like i needed a 4th or 5th cast stone very much, nor snow burst as badly. blizzard shot with ravenous will and mirage shot, wave pounding, sea storm was way faster in the Hades fight and dealt with the EM4 summons in phase 1 without too much trouble
don't think you could say one is strictly better than the other unless you are speedrunning honestly
tidal flame
who is this CrabBar? he seems nice. I have seen him around some servers.
what does he do?
plush pecan
watch his youtube
cerulean frigate
guides, challenges, meme videos, and just being good at vidya
verbal ember
How does overheating work? Like, say i did a run at 11 heat even though i didnt beat 10 yet, can i do 10 later to regain those bounties? or are those gone?
verbal ember
so i would still have the ones from 11 available
tidal flame
if you are at 5 and you do 10, you get bounties from 5
verbal ember
oh wow okay
tidal flame
you get the bounties of the heat you left at, if this makes sense
verbal ember
thats helpful
but wait, if i were to crank it up to 16, would skelly still reward me?
tidal flame
yup
verbal ember
ahh
verbal ember
lol seems kinda difficult not gonna lie
anyway, thats very helpful
since i struggled to find a good 10 heat build
em3 is 6, then benefits package or middle management is 2, and then tight deadline is 1. that's 9.
i wanted to add tight deadline 2 but that would put me on 11 and i was scared of overheating being negative
so i turned on heightened security which actually was kind of really bad
i beat it, nonetheless, but td2 is way easier
thanks for the advice
fickle mountain
My sage advice for 32 heat is Zeus shield cheese
That thing is not balanced
Jumped from 20 to 32 and got it first try,
dire steppe
i thought chaos shield was considered the meta pick these days although i do love my blitz discs
maiden geode
vybe and fox look like they'd be buddies
regal bane
ayyyyyy i finally got the 16 heat statue
and beat extreme measures hades at the same time
maiden geode
congrats
stuck shoal
I find it better to just play it out the normal way, you learn a lot more in the end.
stuck shoal
Do a whole run with brightness set to the minimum.
Heck, just turn off your monitor.
We can call that a " Nyx " run.
dire steppe
audio only hades when
tender echo
cerulean frigate
if you use the meg summon, press up on the d pad immediately at the start on controller and use that. it will hit them both almost every time.
you can pretty much ignore theseus because mostly he will go around in circles shooting bombs at the edge of the arena. you can easily just sit and backstab the chariot when it stops, and even while it's goinv in a circle
asterius beyblade and leap are what you are mainly afraid of
maiden geode
@cerulean frigate I play with DC2 on tho
real hemlock
gonna try my first 32 heat run today lol
well- not first technically, just the first serious one yknow 
jumping from 16 to 32 lol lets goo
edgy arrow
just did 40 heat yeet
been trying on beo for a while, switched to eris like a normie and got it on my second try lmao
i have a feel that aspect might be half decent 😛
dawn forum
Story Time:
So, I'm on my 32 heat run for the Fists. (I'm trying to get at least 32 heat for every weapon)
I limp my way into the Bone Hydra Fight with 0 death defies and somehow make it out alive.
I make it half way through Elysium and fight the mini-boss (butterfly ball), now at half health.
However, a Chaos Gate shows up...
Well, ya know, this run is already lost, why the hell not?
I jump in.
Chaos gives me their Legendary Death Defy
Awesome
The room gates pop up
CHAOS SENDS ME STRAIGHT TO PATROCLUS
ripe crane
Did ya beat dad
ripe crane
Niiiiice
dawn forum
I would post a victory screenshot here, but I can't
I got the Death Defier title card
I'll post it in #h1-victory-boasting
edgy arrow
that’s amazing
dawn forum
I've now done 32 heat with everything but the spear and sword (which are both at 18 heat because I suck with them xD)
gaunt fiber
I also need to beat 32 with every weapon
started with Guan Yu
I wonder how fists is going to be
real hemlock
gonna try my first 32 heat run today lol
@real hemlock i did it
gaunt fiber
gg
rocky hinge
what pacts do you take for any heat speedruns? FO3 and EM3?
gaunt fiber
Em2 FO2
dawn forum
my assumption is
EM2 = Hydra's are close together / Smaller battlefield
FO2 = Faster spawns + enemies move toward you faster (and obviously, they die faster too xD)
dawn forum
however, TD disables time trial rooms, and time trial rooms freeze the in-game timer
tepid mural
Trial rooms are a free room, so that helps with speedrunning
sly remnant
i gave into the cheating
and made a FO2 HL5 EM4 Hades save at 36 heat
I just keep making it to the fight and dying
mossy zinc
That's not cheating, that's just practice.
ripe crane
Practice? Sounds like something a person who turns up the brightness would say
tidal flame
if you put in the hard work, it's not cheating xD. eventually you will need to clear the whole game in one run
bruh I have been spending that past 15 mins trying to get a single lightning strike first boon for my "unseeded" run. stop giving me hammers ffs
and yeah, it is legally unseeded. just a really stupid rule imo
ripe crane
It's very unfortunate that there's no way to reroll the first room without dying.
Maybe there's a mod that does it? Even if there is, idk if it would be recognized as legit?
tidal flame
there is a mod for it.
but the thing is the rule doesn't stop people from resetting if they really want to.
ripe crane
What do you mean?
ripe crane
Oh you mean people can just die over and over until they get a perfect first boon? Yeah that is annoying. But it prevents people from knowing what rooms are coming up next also
Too bad there's no way to keep just the first boon/hammer and reset everything else.
mossy zinc
I'm glad the meta moved to unseeded.
I felt very alone in arguing for that before 1.0.
ripe crane
Unseeded is fun, gets kind of annoying with AP and RI though if you need a somewhat specific start. Even then you have to die just a few times max to get something usable, can't imagine going through dozens of times looking for a good seed.
tidal flame
I just hate the grind. If you make it with a suboptimal start, then that's proper unseeded and I give you much respect for it
if you make it with a perfect starting boon, then the difference is that you either lucked into that or grind for it.
ripe crane
Eh, as long as I get the right kind of boon, if I take dio for his special for example, I'll usually just run with it no matter what rarity it is
mossy zinc
Yeah, Drunken Flourish doesn't really suffer as much from lower rarity because you can make it up with poms.
ripe crane
There are fortunately a few like that, but common aphro boons make me sad :(
mossy zinc
I think they're pretty good because she has good pom scaling, too.
mossy zinc
But you can still get Smoldering Air with Common Heartbreak Strike, though.
ripe crane
Yeah, common smoldering air. Who wants that?
plush pecan
anyone know some easier punishments? im trying to get 32 heat and i have hell mode on
ripe crane
Not EM4, heightened security, approval process, or routine inspection
twilit orbit
FO is also really bad unless you get used to it
plush pecan
what is FO?
twilit orbit
also FO stacks really poorly with EM3 and EM4 unless you're really experienced with the fights
forced overtime
storm mica
em4 is a really fun fight
twilit orbit
approval process is fine if you only take one level of it
two levels is hard and makes you very rng reliant
also I think routine inspection is also okay up to two levels, though its not heat that I would recommend taking unless you really need something more
anything past RI2 is really unplayable unless you're very good though
plush pecan
what is your weapon of choice for high heat? for me hidden aspect for bow is carrying me lol
twilit orbit
ive done 32 with sword, bow, fist, and rail so far
plush pecan
any idea on what aspect i should use for sword? cant find a really good one
i had an idea for a crit cast oriented run with sword
twilit orbit
anything besides zag sword should be fine
I used arthur for my 32
but nemesis is also very good
and poseidon is good too, just doesnt fit my playstyle
twilit orbit
the weapon im probably most comfortable with is chiron bow, it's really braindead to deal damage with so all you have to do is focus on positioning
plush pecan
yeah exactly
hidden ridge
What is the current strat for 55 heat?
true fable
this is kind of bait
but does anyone know if you're allowed to set your tenth clear with EM4
wait jk EM4 only unlocks after true ending huh
daring hedge
What is the current strat for 55 heat?
hollow lynx
flurry poseidon sword
daring hedge
quake cutter zag fists
static plover
Cursed slash Arthur sword
viscid token
Hello all, apologies if this is not the right channel but I recently unlocked heat and had a beginner-ish question. Let's say I have not cleared any bounties with a weapon, then raise heat to 10 and beat first boss. Do I immediately get 10 of that bounty, do I just miss out on 9 of that bounty permanently, or can I run that heat level 10 times and still claim that bounty? Or even something else that I am not thinking of?
true fable
run it 10 times
static plover
you get the lowest unclaimed heat level bounty (except 0 which is it's own thing)
hollow lynx
you'd have to win heat 10 ten times to get all bounties
viscid token
thank you all. I suspected that was most likely answer, SuperGiant doesn
static plover
you have to clear heat 0 with the weapon to get the 0 heat bounties however (it's the only exception)
viscid token
doesn't seem like kind of company that would screw you out of bounties
hollow lynx
you can run any heat you want at any time, no limits or consequences or whatever
if you want to do a heat 46 run for lulz and then immediately switch to heat 0, go for it
daring hedge
yeah, SGG is generally really good about not locking you out of content arbitrarily (though Pyre does this, but it makes sense there and isn't arbitrary)
tidal flame
so close yet so far
wraith imp
So i've been fooling around with routing and i've topped out around 7,900 damage with a single rama dash attack but that's because of hitting multiple enemies within dash-attack which boots the multiplier. (Haven't gotten enough chaos gates - maxed out at 4.)
i'm aiming for this:
hypothetical rama 10,000+ damage per dash attack w/o lining up multiple enemies
- artemis dash-strike epic -> upgraded by eurydice to heoric -> +2-3 poms = ~110%
- 6 chaos gates (2 in tartarus, 2 in asphodel, 2 in elyisum) - all 6 are epic tier dash-attack upgrades = ~660-720% = took average so 690%
- triple shot hammer (want for 300% overlapping region)
- point blank (150%)
- hunter's mark
- clean kill epic (+30% to 300% = 330%)
- heart rend (150%)
- athena exposed (>+100%)
= (125 base x (1.1 +6.9+3.00+1.50+1.1) x (1+3.3+1.5+1.1)) x 1.6
= (125 x 13.6 x 6.9) x 1.6
= 18768
build
attack: demeter (for stubborn roots) then sold her off
special: aphrodite
cast: poseidon (for sweet nectar) then sold him off
dash: artemis
call: athena
/i think my math is right.
//followed damage calculation formula on hades gamepedia
///this build is optimized for max heat (hence demeter for stubborn roots)
hollow lynx
woah
tidal flame
bruh
hollow lynx
thought i switched into a different channel accidentally lol
daring hedge
so close yet so far
it's by far the hardest part of 50+ runs, godspeed
tidal flame
I mean I cleared 46 heat, the last 4 is just EM4
wraith imp
COME AT ME EM4 hades!!!
tidal flame
godspeed indeed, i will make a practice save tmr though
daring hedge
"optimized for max heat" yeah good luck landing all that chaos and the boons you want exactly how you want
hollow lynx
~660-720% = took average so 690%
i mean, if you're going for a hypothetical best rama dash attack, might as well take max chaos percents
daring hedge
lol
wraith imp
i can't seem to get 120% on chaos boons
the best thing about that build is that it can be built before facing asterus and minotaur.
(i actually drew a lot of inspiration from your runs @daring hedge.)
basically, i can one shot hades in every segment of hades fight to force next segment.
i was able to even skip cerberus in part 2 of phase 2.
and lol at his healing pots
NO CHANCE HOMBRE!
daring hedge
yeah, you can nearly do that even in non-routed runs
wraith imp
yeah, i saw your most recent upload (the speedrun)
you were able to line up asterius and minotaur
my main motivation for that build is not to actually beat max heat. i just wanted to see how high i could push rama's dash attack damage. and once i got reasonably close to what i had in mind, i then started wondering how to optimize it for max heat.
i'm confident most of that build (excluding 6 chaos gates) can be achieved even in high heat (40+) or high high heat (50+) without routing assuming AP2 isn't turned on.
daring hedge
it's just that taking hunter dash over divine dash at 50+ without routing is a risk that's often too great
and getting aphro without an aspho keepsake is up to chance entirely
wraith imp
yeah, hence i think most runs aiming for a watered down version of that build would require a seed (either artemis dash attack or hammer) simply to boost odds of building it.
and yes, not having athena on dash is kinda scary but i'm forcing myself to become better without the crutch.
ripe crane
Can download the codex mod and just give yourself all the relevant boons if you want to test the actual damage numbers
daring hedge
it isn't just about divine dash acting as a "crutch", it literally gives you more openings to let off close-range power shots e.g. asterius shockwaves and many of hades' moves
wraith imp
i can sometimes sense that and other times i can't. it's weird. i'm just not sure...
hollow lynx
using dash attacks is a crutch tail 
standing attacks only
daring hedge
like, trading additive dash-strike damage for innate dash deflect for extra safety at 50+ (where you want extra safety no matter how good you are) is more than worth it at that heat range. rama doesn't particularly need that damage boost there with the right hammers and deadly strike
wraith imp
i have a question...does deadly strike have some kind of residual damage increase for dash attack?
daring hedge
not that i'm aware, no. same 3x modifier for damage sometimes, same as regular attacks
wraith imp
ok, sometimes i see some strange numbers and i can't seem to figure out what's causing them
hollow lynx
family favorite?
wraith imp
ri2 and ri3
daring hedge
shared suffering? lol
wraith imp
is purely 60% or some multiplier of it
daring hedge
correct, yes
wraith imp
yeah, that's not it.
daring hedge
but anyways shared suffering takes crit damage into consideration as well (as in shared suffering translates 60% of critical hits and does more damage as a result when the initial attack crit; shared suffering can never crit itself)
wraith imp
oh?
ripe crane
Tfw rama players get to one-shot dad and I rarely even hit 2k with Hestia 
wraith imp
lulz
i was a rama hater...Tail's and Rama llama's runs opened my eyes to what it could do.
now it's my 2nd favorite aspect in the game after zeus shield.
daring hedge
zeus shield is so fun. i've been on and off trying to do 50 with it
only managed 45 with it beforehand
wraith imp
yep, i've grown to love it. (i used to hate it until a friend showed me how to use it well.) i just kept playing with it and then it finally clicked.
i think it's amazing for high high heat
if/when i try a run for max heat- unrouted - that's the weapon i'll use
ripe crane
I don't understand shield and don't really enjoy it, but Zeus was the only one I could hit 40 with. It was actually very fun.
wraith imp
<a moment of silence for what chaos shield used to be>
ripe crane
Do you just stick actual Zeus special on Zeus shield?
wraith imp
i actually discovered merciful end on zeus shield. but now i prefer zeus build on zeus shield
ripe crane
ME sounds kinda dope
wraith imp
but sea storm build with poseidon speical is INCREDIBLE on zeus shield
edgy arrow
wait, wouldn’t that just push away potential victims?
wraith imp
i can't take credit for that. my friend discovered that it procs on every rotation. i tried it out and was stunned. hades couldn't get close to me.
wait, wouldn’t that just push away potential victims?
@edgy arrow
yes
hades could only get to me by vanishing and teleporting.
edgy arrow
so it would do less damage
wraith imp
actually, hades gets into this pathfinding loop
ripe crane
Depending on the knockback, they would mean they just get pushed back into the shield as it travels
wraith imp
but i ususally deploy the shield in the bottom left corner
and hades gets trapped into this aggressive attacking loop
edgy arrow
lol
wraith imp
so he keeps coming and gets knocked into the walls
ripe crane
I need to try this
wraith imp
breaking wave plus typhoon's fury does incredible damage
daring hedge
i think it's amazing for high high heat
it's alright. even with the entire zeus boon kit on it, it tends to struggle with TD3 at 50
wraith imp
try it out. you can make the shield chase you or you can get into corners and just wreck enemies
@daring hedge
I struggle with speed so i don't bother with td3. td2 is my soft cap.
edgy arrow
i really like zeus aspect, but i eventually got bored of doing the same zeus build over and over again, so it’ll be good to try something different
ripe crane
I am looking at my victory screenshot and JS1, DC2, EM4 was 20:06 with full Zeus
daring hedge
i recommend deadly flourish on zeus shield. it's not zeus build, and it's not ME
and it actually can get plenty good
edgy arrow
i think i have literally also never done that
man there are so many weapon/boon combos in this game
wraith imp
yep. but i don't enjoy artemis for some reason. rama and nemesis are the only two aspects i like artemis with. even artemis on arthur feels clunky to me.
daring hedge
i think artemis is pretty frequently good, shrug. not always the best choice, but plenty of aspects like her boons
deadly strike is arguably the best attack boon on hades aspect, for example
wraith imp
yeah, for instance fists are good with artemis but i just don't enjoy it. i can't figure it out. maybe i'll eventually have a change of heart like i did about zeus shield.
ripe crane
I had been using aphro on Hestia and llama suggested Artemis. It's so much better, I hate it
wraith imp
lulz
yep, i had no idea artemis made hestia into basically a super high powered sniper rifle until Taiwan-ese player run showed up.
ripe crane
Just like any additional attack % and it gets better than any other damage
edgy arrow
but then you decided, hey, why take an attack boon at all?
daring hedge
yeetdeath%
ripe crane
Tru, got through 45 with basically no attack boon. Surely I can get higher with an actual build
true fable
i thought aphro on hestia was more consistent
wraith imp
she is
true fable
what's the upside on artemis
wraith imp
but artemis with hunter's mark is awesome
especially..considering one artemis crit does like 2K damage which is like 4-5 aphro manually reloaded shots.
ripe crane
Aphro is more consistent and might make regular rooms faster, especially earlier, but the damage falls off late game. Takes so long to kill bosses
Even Elyseum gets sloooow
daring hedge
it's a similar story with rama, to be honest. heartbreak strike is okay for tartarus and asphodel, but noticeably falls off compared to deadly strike with a good hammer by elysium
hollow lynx
in a vacuum, hb strike scales better than deadly strike
but you're likely to pick-up t2 boons with artemis, so you end up doing more damage with deadly strike
ripe crane
How do I install Hades on my vacuum?
hollow lynx
compared with aphro, who has more defensive/supportive t2 boons
ripe crane
Vacduum
true fable
taking sweet surrender so than can do 10999 damage 
edgy arrow
sweet surrender is great
ripe crane
I love weak so much tho. Really makes up for how bad I am at not taking damage
static plover
nah, hunters mark so than can deal 29997 damage is the real strat
edgy arrow
it’s most of the other ones i’m dubious about
hollow lynx
sweet surrender + mark + targeting system
edgy arrow
yeah just take both lol
daring hedge
empty inside is okay for stuff you're not using a ton of to enable heart rend, like crush shot on a non-cast build
but yeah mostly sweet surrender is the good one
edgy arrow
fair
hollow lynx
epic broken resolve is lovely
ripe crane
I have never had uhh the artemis/Athena duo. Maybe I should be trying to force that on Hestia
daring hedge
never had it? ever?
edgy arrow
wait literally never?
ripe crane
I must have gotten it once for the prophecy (tho I'm still missing the ares/poseidon one), but I've never actually used it
ripe crane
Probably because I prioritize literally every other Athena boon other than her special
hollow lynx
did y'all know mirage shot and curse of drowning are incompatible
edgy arrow
that makes sense ig
daring hedge
that sort of makes sense, i guess, since CoD isn't... a "shot" of anything
hollow lynx
it forced me to change my synergy spreadsheet 😔 and also made me curse amir once again
actually you know what i’ve literally never had? rip current
same
ripe crane
Which is rip current? There are two legendaries I've never had. I got bad news for the first time ever yesterday
edgy arrow
i tried to actually build for it a while back, but iirc i got distracted and did a pos cast build or something instead
edgy arrow
rip current isn’t a legendary; it’s a T2 poseidon boon that (according to the description) pulls enemies into your call
hollow lynx
also makes it last longer, i think
ripe crane
I do everything in my power to avoid poseidon tho
edgy arrow
honestly same lol
hollow lynx
one day i'll get it on eris
edgy arrow
i’m laughably bad at using his call as a result, so it probably wouldn’t even be any good for me
eris does concerning things to call damage
so anyway; i finally broke 40 the other day, what’s the process for getting on the leaderboard?
rain sedge
I always hated rama, but watching the 55 heat run now made me realise how good it can be in the hands of a good player
I was trying to get ideas om how to beat 32 heat... was trying out poseidon/chiron with lucky boons
edgy arrow
i’ve never got pos chiron to work (i assume the strat there is sea storm)
most straightforward way is deadly flourish imo
rain sedge
so I'm a low heat player (16 max) trying to unlock the last statue so my strat might be bad
but I made chiron work either with demeter special for the slow, to give me more time to react in big bosses
or artemis special yeah for dps
dusk topaz
my 32 heat run was just eris rail + zeus attack
rain sedge
poseidon is just... hoping for exit wounds, maybe some hermes cast boons if I'm lucky, MAYBE artemis legendary/mirage shot
dusk topaz
there was some other stuff there but it was mostly eris rail with zeus attack
rain sedge
it;s asking a lot for luck in a run basically
I should try eris rail, my rail heat is low
the times I got zeus lighning + jolt + legendary was pretty broken
dusk topaz
also some enemy damage reduction stacking with stygian soul + aphrodite special
rain sedge
2 good special hammers on rail also made things really good
edgy arrow
it take a little practice to get into the swing of eris, but once you do you do do silly damage with it
plush sinew
any tips on what pacts to use for an eris 32 run?
edgy arrow
that’s abyssal blood
rain sedge
oh you mean abyssal blood
edgy arrow
stygian soul is regenerating casts yeah
rain sedge
yeah I'm planning to do that
yeah my heat choices might not be the best... I'm starting to feel BP2 isn;t great
edgy arrow
BP2 is harder than it seems for sure
rain sedge
and EM4 mihgt be too hard on high heat
edgy arrow
EM4 is not required at 32, and i usually wouldn’t recommend it unless you’re practicing for higher stuff
re: eris pacts, the great thing about eris is that it can handle pretty much whatever lol
plush sinew
do u go for DD or SD when doing 32 heat?
dusk topaz
damage control is basically free heat with eris rail + zeus attack
edgy arrow
avoid stacking JS/CP and TD too much, avoid EM4 and AP2, be wary of HS and you should be alright if you practice it a bit
DD is better unless you run LC4, in which case SD is better
dusk topaz
tight deadline 1-2 is also quite manageable now IMO
rain sedge
HS is an absolute no go for me
edgy arrow
which is also doable with JS/CP on eris, but you do need to play fairly fast
plush sinew
same at no HS
rain sedge
EM2 lava for some reason keep giving me too much trouble even in low heat
true fable
sure footing is kind of an S-tier boon with HS
plush sinew
lava is my natural enemy
edgy arrow
but yeah it’s usually a no go for me lol
rain sedge
I'll try eris for 32 heat thanks
plush sinew
thanks also ill try as well
edgy arrow
that’s fair
edgy arrow
going past 32 is for masochists and fools (like me!)
true fable
thats how i felt after clearing 32 with shield but people in this channel got me wanting 40
rain sedge
140hour over 3/4 weeks is too much I think
plush sinew
maybe ill go n try to max out evry aspect
rain sedge
what;s up with 40?
oh yeah I got some aspects I can max, gems I can farm for house decor
but it's fairly minor things
edgy arrow
it’s a big number, basically
rain sedge
the gem farming is pretty bad in this game
edgy arrow
40 is kind of an arbitrary milestone for high heat stuff
we need to draw lines somewhere
true fable
i thought 40 was getting added as a new cutoff for official subs, no?
or is that still being decided
edgy arrow
that too
rain sedge
whats officialm subs?
edgy arrow
it’s the number for the heat leaderboard spreadsheet, and (i think?) there’s gonna be a 40 heat speedrun category
rain sedge
ah yeah, I'm too bad for that
edgy arrow
same tbh
rain sedge
32 heat then casual stuff like trying fun boon combos
edgy arrow
i just pretend
plush sinew
best hammers for eris? i alway autopick delta chamber but not rlly a rail main so...
plush sinew
thanks will hope to rngesus for those
hollow lynx
cluster rocket is basically top tier eris
true fable
honestly you're very likely to get offered at least 1 or an anvil
rain sedge
I got rocket launcher + 5x special the one time, it was very fun
edgy arrow
if you can’t get those, delta chamber is indeed pretty solid, as is ricochet fire
true fable
but the beauty of hades is you can always go again
edgy arrow
but you’re really looking for the special hammers
plush sinew
i know rocket but what does cluster do again
edgy arrow
turns your special into 5 specials
rain sedge
so.... why is delta chamber good? when I play eris I do special --> attack for a bit (8 ammo or so) --> special again
because the special does a lot of damage even with just 1 good hammer
plush sinew
AH ya that one ok thanks HAHAHAH
rain sedge
or are we saying the attack always outperform the special even without hammer
(without zeus legendary in this case)
edgy arrow
unless you lucked into a crazy high dps special combo (like the aforementioned cluster rocket)
mighty cosmos
I think Delta is good because reloading can strike you at just the worst possible times. As long as you're okay with burst fire it's worthwhile.
edgy arrow
it depends what boons you have
mighty cosmos
That too
And what aspect. If you're running Zagreus with a basically limitless chamber than it's not a huge deal
edgy arrow
i generally build for attack, since it’s more reliable and not as hammer dependant but if you have a better special obviously use it more often
we’re talking eris i believe
mighty cosmos
Eris is... absorbing blast right?
edgy arrow
delta chamber is less good on zag, and literally does nothing at all on hestia
rain sedge
I mean the boon requirements for a great eris run is pretty simple right? zeus legendary and you're good
what else is good? zeus/demeter duo for perma jolt?
mighty cosmos
lol, you can still reload manually with Hestia even with infinite ammo, but it's true there are probably better choices than Delta
edgy arrow
cold fusion isn’t what i usually shoot for actually
you apply jolted so quickly with eris, you don’t really need it to hang around
rain sedge
huh, true
edgy arrow
i usually go artemis on special and go for support fire
mighty cosmos
Support Fire is pretty good on basically any kind of Rail
edgy arrow
they do really good damage with the eris buff up, even without that much investment
save hestia ofc, but yeah
rain sedge
I tried playing hestia 3x already, and I always felt so awkward with it
very unenjoyable gameplay so far
true fable
you generally don't want to rely on getting a duo/legendary since they're so rare, especially with routine inspection on
even tougher with UC too
edgy arrow
you can get duos/legendaries pretty regularly at 32
true fable
not saying it's impossible
edgy arrow
there’s no reason to take RI then
rain sedge
yall run routine inspection? wtf
true fable
i personally do either UC or RI but not both
edgy arrow
i didn’t even run RI at 40 lol
rain sedge
is that... workable?
true fable
RI1 feels somewhat manageable depending on weapon for me
rain sedge
without reroll the game feels so bad
mighty cosmos
I ran RI once. For the prophecy lol
edgy arrow
UC is usually fairly manageable if you make sure to pick up some trash to sell
true fable
you can still pick up reroll from keys
edgy arrow
i used to think that
rain sedge
yeha but... the number of rerolls go down drastically
mighty cosmos
That's something I'll never turn on by choice. Much like the one that reduces your healing. Nope, not even 1 level.
rain sedge
yeah I ran RI for the propechy too, was unenjoyable
rain sedge
I saw that message, I changed my mirror perk to dark foresight because of that
mighty cosmos
Routine Inspection isn't the WORST pact condition. But I think it's not one I'd really run by choice.
edgy arrow
i’ve come to the conclusion RI is probably a bad idea at 40 most of the time
true fable
dark foresight is indeed kinda huge
id just rather not run HL/CF/EM4 at 32 and i don't really have many other options
edgy arrow
That's something I'll never turn on by choice. Much like the one that reduces your healing. Nope, not even 1 level.
@mighty cosmos there’s a trick with LC; run stubborn defiance
“free” healing when you die!
i turned that combo on a while ago and i actually kinda like playing with it now
mighty cosmos
I still need more than one DD for Hades most of the time :p
edgy arrow
that’s fair
true fable
yeah i still get speared too easily haha
mighty cosmos
I'm not good at avoiding SPEEN
rain sedge
yeah my strat of using EM4 for 32 requires 3x DD
edgy arrow
EM4 hades is still something i can’t really deal with at all
i need to sit down and do low heat runs to master it
mighty cosmos
Gods, I'm not even gonna attempt EM4 until I'm WELL and truly ready
I haven't even run EM2
edgy arrow
LC4 with SD is almost certainly easier than EM4
imo
you should try EM2 tho; it isn’t too bad
EM3-4 is generally what gives people trouble
rain sedge
it's like... fine-ish? on low heat. I went TD2 and EM4 for all my weapons for the bounties, it's been going really well so far
with practice the attacks are dodgeable
except for the cerberus stuff
edgy arrow
a lot easier without FO2 probably
rain sedge
I swear to the lord idk why the rocks are so hard to dodge
yeah EM4 with FO2 was NOT FUN
I didn't manage to get past phase 1
edgy arrow
i’ve managed that combo literally one time
and it was only those; 16 heat
and i had a pretty ridiculous beo build with like three +% cast damage chaos boons
mighty cosmos
Yeah, I've seen EM2, and I think I can work with that, it doesn't seem too bad. It'll be the next thing I boost when I have to hit higher heat
rain sedge
FWIW, I found EM3 easier than EM2. The AI isn't super great in the game and you can play around that for EM3
edgy arrow
in some ways it is
rain sedge
most of the time theseus just kinda.... ran around, and asterius is trying to do stuff
edgy arrow
but it takes waaaay longer and TD can become a problem
rain sedge
but you should get a lot of extra time from tartarus and asphodel anyway, no?
rain sedge
idk maybe it's just me on my ~16 heat, at high heat it might get hard
mighty cosmos
Yeah I know that Machine Gun Theseus is actually pretty dumb and less annoying than his, uh, infantry form
mighty cosmos
I can run on the 9 minute and probably 7 minute limit. I don't think I'll ever run 5 though.
It's just too fast.
ripe crane
I think tomorrow I'm gonna try starting with Athena in Tartarus to maximize chances of setting up Artemis duo
Maybe I'll still be fast enough with Hestia
true fable
probably athena special artemis attack right
edgy arrow
idk why you wouldn’t just force deadly strike
true fable
probably force special since youd want divine dash too
true fable
i mean you dont usually have an actual pool until asphodel right
like i feel like sometimes i only have 3 gods leaving tartarus
2 if unlucky
edgy arrow
your pool isn’t complete, but it’s still valuable to have the gods you want in it
true fable
fair enough
just feels like tartarus would be a slog though
perhaps with no TD it wouldn't matter
edgy arrow
obviously it’s fine with no TD
i mean, i’m not sure i’d do it myself, but crepes beat 45 heat on hestia with no attack boon until the last shop in elysium, so i doubt beating TD3 in tartarus with suboptimal boons would be a problem for him
cerulean frigate
that sounds profoundly miserable
wintry sluice
just beat heat 43 with zag rail, focus was zeus attack, jolt, aphro call and smoldering air
i've yet to beat heat 43 without aphro call + smoldering air combo 😬
true fable
crepes beat 45 heat on hestia with no attack boon until the last shop in elysium
crepes is a nut
edgy arrow
he did a shackle start in the hope that he would luck into an attack boon
which like, certainly seems crazy but he won so i can't really criticise it
urban trench
is he the one that did the no attack redacted boss fight
edgy arrow
there have been a few of those, i think
real hemlock
whats gonna happen if u dont finish in the tight deadline 
daring hedge
lose 5 hp every second
tidal flame
if you get past TD, Zag gets terminal cancer
mighty cosmos
5HP a second? Yipes, somehow that feels worse than instadeath
daring hedge
it's surprisingly not too bad if you have a lot of max health + touch of styx dark or sufficient DDs, and keep calm through it if you go overtime during the boss