I was thinking Dire Misfortune might not be much either
#h1-high-heat-strategies
ember bronze
true fable
just keep the DD and sell
dire misfortune doesnt matter nearly as much as impending doom for ME imo
static plover
you have ME online everything else is extra
true fable
thats what im saying
ember bronze
because all it affects is punch combo which I never do?
trim sigil
Exactly
static plover
attack boons effect dash strikes
ember bronze
I'll also get more Ares boons in the run which are pretty useless, and could just get Dire back later
trim sigil
Attack speed shouldn't affect dash strikes as far as I'm concerned
static plover
it's an effect of how attack boons work
trim sigil
Attack damage bonuses do, but that's another story
static plover
it's part of why the 15% attack speed bonus on zag fists had such a placebo effect on people
even if it did nothing for anything past the first punch
ember bronze
oof, no Patro
static plover
ember bronze
Made it to P3
I'm not good enough at the fight to do it without mistakes
and 1 extra life and no Patty, barely came up short
static plover
got super close though 
any run now will be the one 
ember bronze
I've gotten 40 with gun, but that's my only one so far
and 36 with first
I can easily draw the line of Approval Process to that loss, a few better boon and I'd have been there
Rama + Thunder Flourish + Relentless Volley = good?
(answer: yes)
ember bronze
Got it on the next try, see #h1-victory-boasting
ember bronze
this wasn't on video
my other 40heat was though
(I didn't even know that was a thing we were doing)
So making sure, since I'm new to these builds:
- Stubborn Roots does work with LC4?
- If you're getting lives from Athena, it won't work until you lose them?
static plover
Congrats 
Yep stubborn roots bypasses LC4
The lives from athena will work as long as you're missing your SD (as in you'll get the extra DD)
ember bronze
sorry I meant
Stubborn Roots
As in, if I go into Hades with Athena, Athena, SD
Roots kicks in after losing all 3?
trim sigil
Yeah, stubborn roots will stop working if you have any revives including athena's
ember bronze
ok
well--I tried a lot to get it that run, and got 0 health out of it, heh
but going into Hades with 3 lives, Patroclus, and Merciful End was quite fine
trim sigil
Stubborn roots is a really bizarre duo indeed
ember bronze
How do people evaluate it for doing LC4 with high heat?
trim sigil
I know exactly one time when a player deliberately went for it and got the value
(that being 57 heat blood price routed run)
static plover
It's kinda not good on DD but I can see it being okay to decent on SD
trim sigil
If you don't have time constraints and use SD, it's almost a cheese boon
(and even if there is a timer, it still can do some hefty lifting)
ember bronze
Yeah, let’s see—if EM4 takes 3-4min
trim sigil
225 hp for 3 minutes
ember bronze
Getting there with 2 Athena lives can be worth — in my case over 500, but that’s odd
It’s probably in the ballpark of an extra Athena life, if it’s active early
Hm, yeah, not amazing
I guess if you’re expecting a long fight, and you haven’t lucked out on Patroclus or Athena lives, you could go for it
sly remnant
gotta love dying to timer on a 3 sack with tiny vermin
cerulean frigate
I love when tiny vermin decides it's going to burrow over and over for 30-40 seconds
urban grail
I love when tiny vermin doesn't show up at all
ripe crane
SR works in LC4? It didn't for me >:(
I got it in Chiron's shop in Asphodel, killed myself to test it but it did nothing, so I sold it immediately after Lernie. It must not function in the shop room
weary hawk
trim sigil
It does definitely work in LC4
You can watch the vod of routed 57 heat from like 7:15 ||https://www.twitch.tv/videos/715268530||
ripe crane
Yeah I imagine it was just cause I was in the chiron room then, unless it was changed in 1.0
trim sigil
Hmm, who knows. Maybe that was an edge case for some reason yeah
edgy arrow
Stubborn Roots doesn't work unless you're currently in combat
So no, it won't work in the shop room
trim sigil
Oh, I read it as Charon fight room for some reason
Yeah, SR just doesn't function not in combat
gotta stall the last enemy to heal a bunch
bronze viper
Doesn't matter, got there!
Lots of people get busted builds, all the time, but not everyone does it at 40 :3
maiden geode
also took only 2 hits (with acorn) against hades
though only about half my hades fight was honest, lol
trim sigil
(me too, dw)
bronze viper
Tartarus is raid boss in 1.0 lol
wicked sparrow
I tried out a 32 heat run. Sorta forced my run to continue by manipulating saves at a point in Elysium.
Then the game decided it doesn't want me to win by giving me a 4 sack.
bronze viper
I mean if you're already on that track you can continue to save manipulate to get a different sack count. That isn't a constant in a run.
trim sigil
At that point the 2 sack savepoint was probably lost
mossy zinc
bronze viper
Just play from there again, you're more than likely to get a different outcome
wicked sparrow
I was dumb enough to jump from 10-16 heat to 32, might as well as grind it out and get used to it.
Off all the enemies those arrow guys feel absolutely frustrating, especially when Hades summons them.
Then they're arrow gatling guns.
bronze viper
I was dumb enough to jump from 10-16 heat to 32, might as well as grind it out and get used to it.
@wicked sparrow Yeah, that's the approach I would generally advise lol
wicked sparrow
Though one change I made that was probably wrong is I got used to either EM4,MM or EM3,MM,FO1. Now, I have EM3+MM plus others based off of whatever weapon I'm trying.
I don't activate FO or EM4 whenever I try 32 heat.
What would you recommend to be the universal set-up regardless of the weapon? I guess EM3+MM is obvious.
wicked sparrow
Makes sense.
Now that I think about it, there's sense in disabling MM as well. Particularly how it'll make Hades' one phase easier and the Power Duo a lot more bearable.
So yeah, extremely subjective.
bronze viper
Hades adds are not affected by MM
I assume. Since the Skullcrushers do not make the expanding nova (oh god)
edgy arrow
disabling MM just to avoid power couple is kind of understandable lol
bronze viper
It may seem like it because the Soul Catchers and Gorgon appear to poof, but they aren't poofing, all summons have access to Dad's Darkness ability to become invisible for x seconds
edgy arrow
dunno if its worth it, but its understandable
mossy zinc
MM Power Couple is easy once you have the summon timing down. MM Satyr tunnel minibosses are a different matter.
They have so much armor.
Your summon just barely makes a scratch.
ripe crane
Speaking of which, how much does whether or not a tunnel is a mini boss affect your decision to go that direction? I have been inclined to take them lately especially if I'm low on time, they seem much faster.
Of course if I want something in another tunnel I'll take that
hollow lynx
minibosses are usually faster than regular rooms
trim sigil
And even easier most of the time
edgy arrow
minibosses are faster, and easier most of the time
trim sigil
tiny vermin cheese-less and giant satyr aside, ofc
mossy zinc
Tiny Vermin is still usually faster than the regular encounters.
trim sigil
Yeah, mostly referring to difficulty
ripe crane
Eris?
maiden geode
yes eris
oh this one's interesting
smoldering air, splitting bolt, aphro call
must sell
ripe crane
Kinda depends where you are I'd say
And if you need bolt for clear speed
And if you're on em4
limpid nymph
maybe aphro just cause smoldering is good with pretty much any call
but I'm guessing you've already chosen
ripe crane
Too many variables, just sell everything
mossy zinc
Sell Call, take Sigil.
limpid nymph
oh yeah right
I actually did a smoldering sigil run with rama
actually a lot of fun
maiden geode
Hm I'd like not to be so spoiled by OP builds
I'll start running RO1 and/or AP1 then
mossy zinc
I hope they nerf Dark Foresight a bit.
maiden geode
Dark Foresight is fun unfortunately
That probably is a more important consideration than power balance
Oh for RTA all weapons, what's the keepsake swapping meta?
mossy zinc
No idea.
sly remnant
thanks for the 5 sack at 40 heat sgg
still managed to get thru phase 1. but i just didn't have the time
ripe crane
I appreciate the 5 sack. Doesn't give you false hope like the 4 sack
trim sigil
2sack mentality lesgo
ripe crane
Do we know the odds of each? Seems like 2 sack is pretty common.
4s are next most common for me. I have gotten a few 5s, but sure if I've ever gotten a 3. Anecdotes don't really mean anything though
mossy zinc
Question: 2 Sack is more likely than other sacks
Result: Confirmed
Explanation: You can get different lengths of styx wings. In the case when you get a longer 5 chamber wing, it will roll your sack chance twice (once after third room and again after fourth). This means that in those situations 2 sack is a 44% chance. We still are not fully clear on when you get 4 chambers vs 5, but the current theory is its based on the difficulty points of the enemies seen. I will revisit this on a future mythbusting stream to finish quantifying.
From ellomenop in the speedrun server.
ember bronze
So 2 sack is sometimes a 25% chance and sometimes 44%
but the real average chance
we don't know?
ripe crane
Interesting. I would actually have guessed it is higher than that
bronze viper
Yeah, anecdotally, the assumed 50/25/12.5/12.5 split fit my experiences the closest.
ripe crane
How do we know that sack roll is 25% chance?
mossy zinc
God, that new beam he gets in EM4 is so annoying.
ripe crane
There is a new beam?
mossy zinc
The repulse aura he gets on his beam attacks.
ripe crane
Oh yeah makes it annoying to get damage in during the tri-beam.
trim sigil
#nomelee
bronze viper
And gets rid of the deadzone next to him. Which honestly has saved me a non-zero number of times, when I whiff the dash distance and end up pixels outside of the dead zone and get stun locked to death
ember bronze
ah, good to know
bronze viper
(for the phase2.5+ lasers)
ember bronze
so you have to hide from the phase 2B (?) laser
mossy zinc
You can't even move properly behind a pillar because it pushes you.
bronze viper
If you're like Hestia or Chiron you can probably swing it ,but that radius is very large
mossy zinc
I'm practicing RI3 FO2 Hestia, and that aura is annoying as kupo.
bronze viper
Oh I didn't say it wasn't annoying lol. Just that you can at least probably still reliably DPS while it's up with very long range aspects (and dashes, presumably)
trim sigil
The question of the day: does Unshakable Mettle matter?
bronze viper
Soulcatcher summons say: Yes
mossy zinc
I'm just gonna try circling him or something, getting behind something in time with 1 dash is not working.
ember bronze
It dilutes Athena Boon pool >:-|
trim sigil
well, against the repulse that is
mossy zinc
Unshakeable Mettle is great.
bronze viper
Lol, I know Mettle is super unpopular but it shouldn't be. That boon is insane
trim sigil
What I expect from repulse x mettle interaction is that you'd be pushed but not stunned
bronze viper
Probably, if it's coded as a stun.
ember bronze
I actually can never resist duos
trim sigil
which... is better than nothing but not terribly useful either
ember bronze
I've never looked at Mettle closely, but I assume that all hitstuns are "stuns", or else it's pretty pointless
The only actual player-facing "stun" I can think of is pots
bronze viper
Pretty much all non DoT damage stuns
trim sigil
So hitstuns
rocky mauve
You wont be interupted out of your spear charge for example
bronze viper
Rama is the best example I can think of, yes
mossy zinc
I swear that spear throw has zero startup lol.
This fight is frustrating with one dash.
bronze viper
Excalibur and Charged Volley bow builds really appreciate Mettle too
trim sigil
The spear throw has just about 0 startup yes
ember bronze
I think you have to know that he sometimes goes swing, swing, throw now
instead of swing, swing, sweep
bronze viper
I think he has a close range spear jab that is pretty much instant as well
ember bronze
I don't know it all offhand
but I also think you might just not be able to safely attack Hades in neutral
mossy zinc
His thrust you can evade 100% just by strafing him.
ember bronze
Whomst among us does not spam a lot of Dashstrikes and know that Athena will take care of "most" problems
mossy zinc
Me?
ember bronze
Doing casual speed made me realize how often you can just race Hades
Going back to highheat is making me learn the fight better--I basically make some mistakes, but have to focus enough to get through it with 2-3 lifebars
bronze viper
The next step of progression is consistently killing dad with <200 eHP
mossy zinc
I don't feel like this fight is balanced for single dash at FO2 lol.
bronze viper
Lol, I don't think they balance the game for single dashes in general.
ember bronze
I feel like a highroll strat can be to take Ruthless and hope for Hermes to save you, but I never like doing it
mossy zinc
I'm practicing with RI3. There's no Ruthless. 
ripe crane
FO2 strat I found in Asphodel yesterday - have a crappy computer so your game runs at half the speed that it's supposed to
normal ivy
Can someone answer why we focus so much on 32 heat?
ripe crane
That's when you unlock Skelly's final reward
Since it's the last thing that the game officially gives you something for, that's as far as many people take it
twilit orbit
the really experienced players like doing 40+ heat but for most of us plebs the highest heat is 32 because that's what the last reward is
normal ivy
Ahh, thank you!
ebon night
I've died to EM4 3 times now 😦
bronze viper
No shame, I've died way more in a row than that
true fable
imagine making it to hades
waxen relic
40heat suddenly cleared
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/768920850598330438/20201022213401_1.jpg
mossy zinc
Congratulations! 
oak sentinel
wow congrats
working my way up... I've been practicing using full forced overtime to get used to the fast attacks though it's probably costing me some wins with easier punishments, do ya'll experienced players think it's a good strategy anyway tho?
waxen relic
Did the same, then took it off, which made the game easier than had to turn it on again
bronze viper
@oak sentinel If your goal is to continue advancing in heat, yes, learning how to play with FO2 is a must.
There are situations you can drop it though with some heat configurations
mossy zinc
I think you gotta differentiate between runs for practice and runs for beating this or that.
When you just want to beat e.g. 32, then do whatever you think are the easiest pacts and take the best aspect or your aspect of choice.
Same for 40 or whatever.
uncut wigeon
Trippy Shot is so bad with FO2
:-(
Poseidon/artemis duo didnt come through either. RNG gods forsake me.
oak sentinel
tbh I only use Trippy Shot when I have Hera/Beowulf as the delivery mechanism
then aiming the silly thing with my controller isn't an issue
and mob speed doesn't matter either
uncut wigeon
Trippy with mirage shot is a lot of fun
Just tricky when everything is moving around like anime.
trim sigil
Trippy with demeter duo is quite nice
Although I tried to assemble it on hera once and it turns out that there is non-0 delay because of it
Sold it asap 
oak sentinel
What do you mean? I had a crazy good time with demeter duo on hera
trim sigil
Well, instead of dealing damage instantly it has just a tiny delay
trim sigil
Usually on trippy shot it's a huge upgrade nonetheless
true fable
since its usually insta cast
trim sigil
But on hera it's slower one for some reason, yea
ember bronze
Died on Hades (P1) on 44
ripe crane
What kind of build/aspect for 44?
ember bronze
What's the easiest way to show screenshots?
daring hedge
imgur, private discord server image link
ripe crane
Ya I just upload to a private discord
ember bronze
ripe crane
I'm gonna try ME next I think for fists. To get to 40 I used Zeus attack and whatever the best special I could get, made it to phase 3 several times but it felt like the damage wasn't quite there to close it out
Oh dang that is with no FO either. Interesting. I don't think I could handle full HL even at FO0
You don't feel like JS2 puts too much pressure on you time wise?
mossy zinc
ME doesn't struggle with anything like that.
ripe crane
I suppose if you get it early enough. Idk though, I have but played it enough
true fable
@ember bronze did you sell divine flourish and pick up deadly
mossy zinc
Curse of Agony still does work, either way.
static plover
ME has the perks of insta proccing doom and dealing more damage on top
ripe crane
I always underestimate doom. The delay just makes it feel too slow
true fable
ME kind of eliminates that drawback
true fable
just tag em and leave em
mossy zinc
The delay just means you can already move on to the next target while Doom will kill it off.
ember bronze
ME is only a huge deal if you're proccing it very often--much faster than real Doom
so like fists Dashstrike
true fable
ME makes the most notable difference in elysium and vs bosses for me
ember bronze
yeah
if you don't have it online in later it's not a huge deal
but you single-target DPS blows up when it does
true fable
what hammers do people usually use for fists 32+
ember bronze
Breaching and Rolling ideally I think
true fable
im currently collecting all bounties up to 20 but once i get there im probably gonna try fists
ember bronze
all you do is Dashstrike
true fable
none of the special hammers seem extraordinary
mossy zinc
Breaching Cross and Explosive Upper ideally for Demeter Aspect.
true fable
mm i guess explosive upper kind of outclassses all other special hammers?
ripe crane
I really like explosive upper, the extra 100% special damage in an area is pretty huge
true fable
draining upper doesnt work on LC4 does it
true fable
thought not but jsut figured id check
long knuckle feels really nice
ive been doing breaching cross long knuckle but wasnt sure if there was something ebtter
ember bronze
Do you all really do a thing where you have a leaderboard that requires videos?
ripe crane
I think the spreadsheet tracks videos for people to watch
mossy zinc
There's a pinned spreadsheet, yes.
bronze viper
Most "efficient" high-damate route is probably Merciful End, and safest route is Divine Strike.
I'd probably avoid EM3+ for consistency purposes. Are you comfortable with LC4 + Stubborn Defiance?
true fable
side question for you ME dem fist people do you start with blood vial or owl pendant
untold sigil
I am not. Should I get comfortable?
bronze viper
Owl Pendant makes it a LOT more likely to get ME in the run, but your damage will be soooo bad.
true fable
thats pretty much how i felt about it
doing early rooms without curse of agony is a SLOG
bronze viper
I will always start with Blood Vial because Curse of Agony damage is probably good enough by itself
And like... because I want to have fun in my video games lmao
I am not. Should I get comfortable?
@untold sigil That's kind of up to you. If 32 is your end goal, no, it's not really necessary, but it's a pretty essential tool the further you want to climb
untold sigil
I see
bronze viper
At the normal heats you play at, how many DDs do you typically burn on EM3/Dad?
bronze viper
Okay, that's actually not too bad. The primary cost of LC4 + SD is that while you are able to make a lot more mistakes in normal encounters and not have to pay gold to recover from them, you have significantly less mistakes you can make during boss encounters.
Barring some dream runs where you get Patroclus + 1/2 Athena DDs + 2 sack Styx
untold sigil
Ahhh so pick yer poison type of thing
bronze viper
In those runs, I would say that SD is pretty damn close to strictly better than DD
The main utility is getting +4 heat for free at high heat. Also because normal encounters become very dangerous with enough pacts.
true fable
i feel like im just so used to trading DDs vs dad for speed
but i gotta break that habit
bronze viper
It's less than trivial. It's no longer an option :3
true fable
LC4 makes it so all sources of healing heal for 0
bronze viper
You regain health by dying in rooms, by picking up Centaur Hearts, or through Touch of Styx or Patroclus' version, which is 50% for 15 chambers
true fable
so dont accidentally buy shop food like i did :^)
untold sigil
So do demeter and dio boons like after party become moot to pick up?
true fable
i actually have no idea about after party but yeah afaik nourished soul does nothing
same with strong dronk
bronze viper
Maybe something like this?
I set this up to make stuff hurt the least, and on Curse of Agony JS3 + TD2 shouldn't hurt too bad.
untold sigil
Gg what is this monstrosity
bronze viper
So do demeter and dio boons like after party become moot to pick up?
@untold sigil Correct. Also be cautious about unsellable boons if you end up using UC
hollow lynx
LC4
JS3
what... what is dis
i would never imagine hurting myself like this for a 32 heat run
waxen relic
with SD and Acorn i found 1 or two HL quite good to get use out of it
true fable
why not DC2 instead of JS3
untold sigil
rn I'm running gilga in 32 heat. Which aspects do y'all prefer and why?
untold sigil
Ohhh
bronze viper
I prefer other aspects than Gilgamesh. That's my favorite aspect of gilgamesh.
true fable
you can definitely still run ME on gilga it's just less effective
untold sigil
Have I made a mistake
true fable
and the uppercut is nice bonus damage early on
oak sentinel
how does dem interact with merciful end in particular? I haven't really played with her gloves much
untold sigil
Prob
bronze viper
It's definitely more effective, once you actually get Merciful End.
hollow lynx
yeah gil is definitely the best applicator of ME, assuming divine dash
true fable
@oak sentinel it's not a specific interaction between those two, just that Dem fists is probably most peoples favorite gloves and ME is one of the most effective things you can run on gloves
just because of the extra dashes?
bronze viper
how does dem interact with merciful end in particular? I haven't really played with her gloves much
@oak sentinel All fists basically interact the same way, but Demeter has a burst special to make it feel better if you whiff on ME
oak sentinel
oh fair enough, I fell in love with talos gloves and didn't really look back
bronze viper
just because of the extra dashes?
@true fable The dash strikes come out faster than anyone else's and you have 4 of them, yes
The cost is you have to play Gilgamesh
bronze viper
Have I made a mistake
@untold sigil Lol, the nice thing about 32 heat is that it gives you a ton of flexibility to pick and choose from your own favorite options
Don't take what I posted for gospel. That would be the easiest configuration for me
untold sigil
Oh dear I've died twice and haven't made it out of tartarus
oak sentinel
I think it (me getting locked on to talos and not playing with dem) really shows one of the weaknesses of the titan blood unlocking system where it takes ages to get things unlocked and upgraded (and some weapons very much need to have a buuuunch of blood dumped in to them to make them usable/good) and then you're like 100 hours in and you've never touched a weapon because you dumped 15 blood in to each of your favourite ones.
untold sigil
This is gonna be hard
bronze viper
And don't take our meming on Gilgamesh to discourage you from playing it if you enjoy it. We're just bitter because we've lost some good people to Gilgamesh's dash upper [still waiting for their recovery frames to end]
waxen relic
better die in tartarus than to daddy
bronze viper
I die in Tartarus probably 75+% of the time with TD3 lol
bronze viper
I have more than my fair share of shame deaths to BP2 Dracons in Asphodel
true fable
no shame in that
question about rama for people
for shared suffering
if i overkill a small enemy
is the overkill damage still applied to all others
bronze viper
Yes
untold sigil
Then if you stay at 30%, is using the skull earring a possible take?
true fable
nice
bronze viper
Damage on DC hearts also works in that way
Then if you stay at 30%, is using the skull earring a possible take?
@untold sigil The typical keepsake progression is God > God > Acorn > Acorn
For Gilgamesh it would be Blood Vial > Owl Pendant > Acorn > Acorn
true fable
is it worth getting divine flourish to get deadly reversal on rama
or does that gimp my special too much
bronze viper
The keepsake damage mods are all additive, so even if they were consistent they wouldn't really amount to much over the benefit of a boon or Acorn. And while you are usually at 30 or less with SD, you aren't at the beginning of the run, or if your health resets and you pick up a Heart/Darkness, or if you have Touch of Styx/Dark
is it worth getting divine flourish to get deadly reversal on rama
@true fable You would actually need to deflect something, after which you have 2 seconds to use the buff.
true fable
i have divine dash already if that changes anything
bronze viper
Since the typical play pattern is spread special, then charge an attack, that doesn't really leave much opportunity to use it.
true fable
i probably wont go for it but just curious
oak sentinel
For ME builds I assume you go agony and then dash and/or flourish to trigger?
bronze viper
It's probably fine, especially if the game just offers you DIvine Flourish. Getting Exposed would help too
It really doesn't matter too much what's on your special lol. Sure there may be "better" options
oak sentinel
wha... why wouldn't it trigger, it's a deflect effect? That's weird
true fable
@oak sentinel i usually do curse of agony, divine dash/flourish --> whichever i didn't get, then ME
waxen relic
it triggers but is not a prerequisite
waxen relic
i thought at least
true fable
the dash is what makes those good though so you usually need all four boons for the perfect setup
cerulean frigate
You still want divine dash, it's just not a valid prerequisite for some of the offensive duo boons anymore
true fable
you want the dash to proc the ability not to get it
cerulean frigate
It still counts for some of the other duos though
true fable
so you could always get ME first then divine dash
bronze viper
Yeah
cerulean frigate
assuming you couldn't get hangover, doom or lightning on rama special, what'd be your next pick
bronze viper
Weak with Deadly Strike
true fable
this deadly reversal setup works pretty nice
i got DR at shop right before A1 boss
so ima sell flourish
it's probably not viable enough to try to go for it because a lot of things have to go your way
but it was nice to fall into
candid nacelle
Chill if you can get Killing Freeze
bronze viper
Then probably some tie between Athena for Exposed, Poseidon for Razor Shoals, or Demeter for Chill
candid nacelle
I'm a sucker for Demeter rn
true fable
these are toward the bottom tier for rama specials huh
bronze viper
You don't really need to optimize for Rama special tbf. As long as you're not Deadly Flourish you're probably fine.
true fable
lol
bronze viper
There are special based builds you can do on Rama. Like if I get Relentless Volley early I like going Hangover
With Aphro or Artemis attack for those duos
true fable
zeus special build goes dummy if you get the extra bolts
bronze viper
For sure, but it's kind of meh if you don't. And unlike Hangover you have to keep spamming the special to keep it up
untold sigil
When doing high heat should go erebus or chaos?
bronze viper
As long as you're good with the timer, yeah
CHaos helps timers typically, and Erebus will hurt them, typically
ember bronze
Chaos I almost always take due to free time and bonus that's generally fine, sometimes great
Erebus only if I'm fine on time and the Erebus reward is much better (e.g. boon vs. non-boon)
rigid sandal
how well does high heat run on switch? starting to get higher and it's getting a lil choppier
ember bronze
There's a pinned spreadsheet, yes.
@mossy zinc If I just have a screenshot, can that be "unverified unseeded"?
cerulean frigate
i think my favorite part about rama so far is how reliable the special is at bouncing off envornment objects and still hitting enemies
you can do some sweet corner shots in elysium
true fable
@cerulean frigate my favorite tip from someone in this channel was that you can shoot dad from behind pillars
cerulean frigate
yeah
formal gust
I was trying 32 heat on dem fists, got ares attack and athena dash and special but no ME
I was not offered a single ares or athena boon for all of elysium
I also always lose at least one DD before I get merciful end
It is incredibly frustrating
ember bronze
Do you use God's ... Legacy (the yellow one), and Fated Persuasion?
cerulean frigate
do you think fated authority would be worth taking over persuasion if it also let you reroll hammer choices on top of altering room rewards
ember bronze
like, lets you do the FP thing on hammers?
that would just be out of place with the talent really
bronze viper
If I just have a screenshot, can that be "unverified unseeded"?
@ember bronzeVerified unseeded means a video that shows your previous death or victory, followed by you starting another run.
ember bronze
Right but I see there's an unverified list
bronze viper
how well does high heat run on switch? starting to get higher and it's getting a lil choppier
@rigid sandal With JSx up, and a lot of effects, yeah it does get a little choppy for me. Sometimes it's pretty bad.
@ember bronze For instance, my Chiron 43 and 45 runs there are actually unseeded, but I forgot to record the death, so there's no way of knowing
That list is also for seeded, which is my Rama 50, where I specifically ran a seed with Relentless Volley
ember bronze
Yeah, I'm just taking the lazy option since I usually don't continuously record
(although one of my 40s is, since I was streaming)
bronze viper
Yeah, me too. I only bother recording if I'm going to beat a personal record, I have a whole bunch of runs in the 40-44 zone that I just didn't bother with.
cerulean frigate
why's it gotta include the previous death anyhow
cerulean frigate
i guess it's a little unreasonable to expect a high streak out of 32+ heat anyhow
bronze viper
To be fair, streaking is out of the question for this approach, since on your next play session, you probably will have to intentionally kill yourself before starting a run anyway, unless you stopped playing during a run.
(Victory also resets seeds)
ripe crane
Epic doom, +73 HP from Chaos, and merciful end on chamber 7. I wonder what dumb thing I'm going to die to.
true fable
chamber 7 merciful end 
ripe crane
After 3 runs to styx of not getting it at all
cerulean frigate
getting 60+ max hp off chaos early feels so good
ripe crane
It sure does. What doesn't feel good is having to sell my deflect special and spending all my rerolls trying to get the dash but never getting it lol. I am halfway through Elyseum and haven't had an ability that deflects since the end of Tartarus 
daring hedge
getting 60+ max hp off chaos early feels so good
especially while running RI2; it's like an undo button for the most immediately felt part of those three mirror upgrades
getting early erebus heart is a godsend sometimes
cerulean frigate
i've come to really appreciate Hyper Sprint on sword
don't really care for it on other weapons though
well, not entirely true. it's nice on spear if you have the 3x hit on dash strike hammer. always forget the name
ripe crane
The game is not offering me any of the gods that I have. I have only taken 3 gods. Is it going to continue offering me only new ones until I take a 4th?
ripe crane
This game is mocking us
wanton plover
:(
true fable
that picture makes me angy
sly remnant
Yea i got the 5 sack earlier
Completely ruined my run
Still won a 40 so back to the FO2 hyperbolic training chamber
cerulean frigate
5 sack with the 4th hall being tiny vermin
cerulean frigate
who would you want as the 4th god if your first 3 are Athena, Aphrodite and Poseidon on hades spear?
dash cast and call slots are empty
cerulean frigate
i already used owl pendant and got offered epic divine strike -> rare exposed
haven't seen the dash yet but rerolling there would have felt dumb i think
esp since im running priv status
divine strike spear with 30% attack speed from hermes has been silly so far though
true fable
are parting shot and mirage shot effectively multiplicative (ie does the +35% from parting shot apply to both the initial cast and the second, smaller cast)?
ripe crane
If I ever finish this run, it's gonna have an seed-shaped asterisk by it cause this start is too good.
Hm. Looks like idk how seeding works cause this is not the same xd
true fable
it stays the same for first 2 rooms (?) i think
someone can correct me if im wrong
after that your decisions make a difference
wanton plover
i heard if u break pillars it alters stuff kekw
bronze viper
are parting shot and mirage shot effectively multiplicative (ie does the +35% from parting shot apply to both the initial cast and the second, smaller cast)?
@true fable Parting Shot isn't multiplicative. The 35% is a normal backstab bonus (that will also apply to your attacks etc.)
bronze viper
Seed will also only determine the reward in the first room, and the type of reward in the second room. It will not guarantee the specific room the second room is though.
ripe crane
It seems to have remembered 4sack also :^)
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/769034677972369418/unknown.png Let me just say F triple doomstone spawn on EM4 😦
ripe crane
The more I play EM4 FO2, the more I think I might want spearpoint
bronze viper
I went down that road, it's not great
The thing is you really just don't want to get hit in the first place. The invulnerability doesn't really line up well when you want it to
ripe crane
I feel like the majority of my damage is getting stuck in a trap and getting comboed or getting stuck without dashes also in a combo
You can also get hit on purpose by summons to give yourself a mini athena call if you're on fists or something
bronze viper
If you are consistent at doing that, more power to you. I am getting hit way more than enough not on purpose for me to start looking to get hit by stuff to not take damage
ripe crane
Idk, my damage is coming from panic. I have been making it to phase 2 with acorn somewhat consistently. Then I do something stupid like get stuck in a vase or a laser
Eh, I just need more practice regardless. Done with fists for now though. Too depressing. Gonna try more hestia.
wanton plover
if u make it to p2 with acorn intact, then acorn is way better
ripe crane
The real problem is that there's not enough time in the day. Gonna quit my job and become a pro hades streamer
trim sigil
Now that's a 200iq move
bronze viper
Hades has been running terribly for me today, frame dropping everywhere. I thought it was OBS but it's still doing it even I'm not recording...
north dove
Dual monitor?
bronze viper
Yeah, but it's nothing new for my setup
north dove
I used to get frame drops when streaming stuff on my secondary 60hz monitor
ripe crane
Huh. You can fully kill both halves of the power couple with a well timed/placed Antos
bronze viper
Meg/Than work too
ripe crane
How do they destroy the shield and HP? Wouldn't they have to hit twice?
bronze viper
Oh, is that not what you meant? Usually by the time I can get them to line up I've gotten rid of Megagorgon's armor and Skullcrusher has like no HP
ripe crane
Yeah, like if you immediately make the crusher fall basically on top of the gorgon, Achilles/Pat will hit both of them at the same time and just kill them
bronze viper
Oh, neat, I didn't think had any AoE at all.
trim sigil
Sounds rather surprising that there is aoe for them
ripe crane
They swipe the spear a bit, the aoe is rather small, or perhaps the enemies even have to be intersecting. I also do it on Theseus & Asterius when Theseus has stopped to gloat and I can lure Asterius over to him, usually results in at least one double hit.
true fable
yeah they got a little bit of cleave
trim sigil
Makes sense that way
true fable
is chain shot any good for rama
daring hedge
yeah it's pretty good. is lacking for most of the hades fight though, which is risky
great at clearing normal encounters with JS
twin, triple, perfect and point blank are still probably better, but chain isn't bad at all
cerulean frigate
man i was so close to a 32 clear on rama but i threw in the em4 fight
tepid mural
The more I play EM4 FO2, the more I think I might want spearpoint
@ripe crane definitely not a bad idea, been carrying me lately
ripe crane
It is a bad idea actually because it involves playing this game 😠
grizzled pollen
See I've been taking Meg trying to win my 32s but I might switch to bouldy again long as I'm only using LC2
I'd like to be able to just smack the sisters real hard and Meg won't
mossy zinc
Antos.
tepid mural
lmfao crepes
bouldy loses value the second you put lc
antos is the way
id say thanatos, but youll probably finish the fight before he lands
cerulean frigate
Is Sweet Surrender damage additive or multiplicative
mossy zinc
Additive.
maiden geode
what boons on rama?
mossy zinc
Deadly Strike or Heartbreak Strike, Drunken Flourish or Thunder Flourish, Divine Dash.
loud coral
Privileged Status is probably the way to go, plus I think Shared Suffering counts as a status curse
When in doubt, Shattered Shackle or Athena
mossy zinc
Family Favorite unless you're going for Heartbreak Strike + Drunken Flourish.
Owl Pendant is a good pick for Tartarus for Divine Dash.
maiden geode
PS only counts Weak, Hangover, Marked, Jolted, Ruptured, Chill, Exposed, Doom
loud coral
You'll at least want one deflecting boon for Asphodel, Divine Strike might actually work thanks to the wide shot
Though Divine Dash is still king
maiden geode
as awesome as that pairing+PS is it's not consistent if I want to get my dash
ah that makes sense, rama's strong enough without help in tartarus
edgy arrow
iirc PS counts decay
mossy zinc
Nah, just get Divine Dash. Screw Divine Strike on Rama. You want damage.
edgy arrow
if you're listing all the things it counts
loud coral
Chain Shot is really solid with Rama, the main fire alone does enough damage but with Heartbreak Strike and Shared Suffering it's busted
crystal iron
iirc PS counts decay
well, for decay things need to be afflicted with chill first, so it doesn't matter.
edgy arrow
it does tho, 'cause you don't need another effect
maiden geode
so zeus wants to replace my common drunken flourish
do I take this?
my other options are rare cast and epic revenge
edgy arrow
its been a while since i've done it, but i'm pretty sure if all enemies are chilled (and thus decaying) you get PS on everything
maiden geode
any opinions here folks?
loud coral
What weapon are you using?
maiden geode
I am rama
edgy arrow
rama right?
loud coral
Oh right lmao
maiden geode
I have UC on
loud coral
Me dumb
edgy arrow
toss up between taking the cast and swapping imo
but i'm not that great with rama, so grain of salt that probably
loud coral
I’d go for the cast, with Shared Suffering it can be good plus Hangover isn’t all that bad on common usually
edgy arrow
oh boy
started up the game and found i'd been halfway through a 40 beo run
guess i'm starting hot lol
loud coral
Have fun :)
mossy zinc
I still can't react to Speeder FO2 Greatshields half the time lol.
mossy zinc
Sure.
maiden geode
I have zeus special
do I take rose or arrowhead here, hmm
I have demeter in my pool as well
mossy zinc
Do you have Divine Dash?
maiden geode
yes
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike then, and get any good Call for Smoldering Air.
maiden geode
I'm assuming that I'm not allowed to pick up the duo boon of the pair of gods in my trial?
mossy zinc
You can't get any Duo Boons in a trial.
maiden geode
I see
interesting
do I take epic sweet surrender or try to reroll for call
prolly sweet surrender
edgy arrow
okay usually i just focus on my cast for beo, but the game just handed me epic heartbreak flourish and charged flight on a silver platter
should i still upgrade my cast, or just go all in on special now?
true fable
wus ur other hammer
mossy zinc
I don't know what pacts you have.
maiden geode
build's lookin special
mossy zinc
Charged Flight should be enough, but having a good cast doesn't hurt.
maiden geode
well offers me a chaos gate at the start of elysium
I have one hammer, and it's triple shot
true fable
the dream
edgy arrow
i have aphro cast as well (common)
mossy zinc
@maiden geode take the gate if you're running TD3.
mossy zinc
@edgy arrow do you have Divine Dash, anyway? If no, take the Owl Pendant into Asphodel.
edgy arrow
i didn't know what keepsake to grab for asphodel, so i went zeus aiming for smoldering
ikr
true fable
with AP?
edgy arrow
checks pact
mossy zinc
If I don't know what to take into Asphodel, I just grab Acorn.
edgy arrow
yeah looks like what i took instead was EM4
may have been a mistake
oh man
eurydice hit my special
true fable
what an adventure
edgy arrow
im gonna be so embarrassed when i inevitably die despite all this luck lmao
mossy zinc
Urgh, Curse of Agony + Divine Dash and I reroll Curse of Pain into Curse of Pain. 
edgy arrow
sounds... painful
true fable
what did you want, impending?
mossy zinc
Anything but Special or Dash.
true fable
sadness
mossy zinc
Chamber 23, and I'm getting Drunken Dash to replace my Divine Dash. Blessed.
true fable
what wep
mossy zinc
Malphon.
true fable
why replace? too late for ME?
mossy zinc
AP2.
true fable
extra sad
atomic ember
AP2?
true fable
what if you wanted to play the game
but AP2 said
drunken dash <--> divine dash
approval process
eliminates one boon option per level
so at level 2 you get one option available
mossy zinc
Let's go, Saint Patroclus.
maiden geode
I already reset this run but is it worth taking passion dash just to qualify for smoldering air
mossy zinc
Sad I got Peer Pressure instead of a real boon.
maiden geode
eris btw
mossy zinc
Not really, no.
maiden geode
do I take my zeus room now or try for an erebus dio
trippy shot is a thing I could do
mossy zinc
¯_(ツ)_/¯
maiden geode
uh oh I was scammed into an ares room
do I take special, cast, or urge to kill
prolly special, hope to sell
mossy zinc
I don't think you need to ask at every decision lol.
Urge to Kill is nice.
Can't build confidence in your decision-making if you always ask.
maiden geode
true
cerulean frigate
salvaging a forced tempest strike rail run with sea storm but knowing you could be doing even more damage anyway if you had gotten thunder strike instead
cerulean frigate
dunno, you'd have to sit down and do the math. but for how long it takes to get going the run could have been much stronger much earlier if it had been the typical thunder strike one
there are better ways to get sea storm like tidal dash or flood shot anyway imo
unreal pasture
If there's no ICD, Sea Storm is more damage
But that's ignoring chain lightning and the snowball of having Lightning Strike early
mossy zinc
Sea Storm has a CD.
mighty finch
hi, does anyone have any tips for how to set the pact for heat 32? I can't make it past the goddamn Lernie with my own bungling so I'm probably choosing harder conditions than I need to
mossy zinc
What's your setup, aspect, and build?
mighty finch
Aspect of hades spear, I susally start with the athena trinket for divine dash and then swap to sisyphus chain if my attack hasn't been booned yet, acorn if it has
usually*
hang on 1 tick for current conditions
wanton plover
doomstone disappears in em4
instead of chain you can just take art keepsake to get attack
mighty finch
80% hard labour, max convience fee, max jury summons, 3/4 EM, max calisthenics program, max benefits package, middle management, heightend security, 1 routine inspection, max damage control & 7 min tight deadline is my current heat 32 thing
mossy zinc
@daring hedge this is the "Tailesque build", right? https://imgur.com/a/VAaXdiN
mighty finch
art attack boon is the one to go for then?
mossy zinc
Definitely take off RI.
wanton plover
well art or aph but i like art
mighty finch
alrighty
mossy zinc
I also wouldn't take DC2 at 32.
wanton plover
i would also avoid js and cp
mighty finch
it's fairly managble with the spear as it's fairly quick, I do miss the initial damage from the spin as they spawn in tho
mossy zinc
Well, what are you dying to?
DC2 is very annoying in the Hades fight because all of his skulls get the DC hearts.
mighty finch
lava mostly, but I need to just, not go into the lava
mossy zinc
Take off Heightened Security.
mighty finch
probably, it's just 1 heat anyway
where do I make up the lost heat from RI, DC2, Heightened Security, JS and CP tho?
FO?
mossy zinc
TD3 is 3 Heat.
mighty finch
yeah I've got that one
mossy zinc
Yeah, to circumvent the lack of healing from LC4.
mighty finch
ah right
mossy zinc
If you want to take DDs, do LC0 instead. But you'll have to put those 4 points into something else.
mighty finch
I can try with SD
mossy zinc
Maybe don't copy me using High Confidence if you're not as confident lol.
Definitely Dark Foresight and Persuasion, though.
heavy tangle
mighty finch
Yeah I'm literally not confident enough for High Confidence 😅
but this has been very helpful, tyvm!
mossy zinc
That's something you can unlock after the epilogue.
random bough
FO1 isnt that bad, HL probably hurts more
mossy zinc
Depends on the aspect for me, I would say.
Ranged weapons with HL5 FO0 are pretty free.
flat bear
What are good Rama attack/special combos for 40 heat?
And what's a good 40 heat pact setup for it?
wanton plover
art or aph attack and ath or art dash
special can be whatever like dio or ares
whatever heat you take i would avoid js kekw
mossy zinc
I don't think Rama has any particular issue with JS CP or DC.
flat bear
mossy zinc
Deadly Strike + Drunken Flourish, Heartbreak Strike + Drunken Flourish, Heartbreak Strike + Thunder Flourish are all good combos with good Duo Boons.
flat bear
Is this good?
mossy zinc
In any case, you'll want Divine Dash.
wanton plover
take 2 dc
flat bear
I'm awful with traps
mossy zinc
HL5 might be easier than CP2, too.
But it's like pick your poison, anyway. I'd just give it a go.
flat bear
I'll see how it goes
I've never done a Rama run before
Highest heat I've done is 32 on Chiron, took 2 tries
Athena keepsake in tartarus, right?
wanton plover
on floor 2
mossy zinc
Yeah, Tartarus.
wanton plover
why in tart
mossy zinc
Just get Divine Dash. Don't really need an Attack in Tartarus with Rama.
flat bear
Twin shot, repulse shot, relentless volley and triple shot are all hammers I want?
mossy zinc
He was playing with AP2.
flat bear
Do I need to take DC off all targets with shared suffering for them to take shared suffering damage
mossy zinc
Yeah, you'd just remove DC hearts with Shared Suffering damage otherwise.
But your Special should take care of that, especially if you get Drunken Flourish or Thunder Flourish.
flat bear
Jesus christ Twin Shot Rama hits hard
maiden geode
oh geez
I thought there wouldn't be a big difference between JS2 and JS3
but tartarus keeps wrecking me
formal gust
Do you recommend Athena first for Demeter
formal gust
Divine strike with ME?
mossy zinc
No lol. Deadly Reversal and Support Fire.
formal gust
Yeah I was confused for a sec
round gale
just got my ass handed to me by EM4 third phase even though I half expected it
any keepsake recommendations?
hades slapping me for 100 is Not Fun
I used acorn but it was obvious that isn’t good enough for such an endurance test
waxen relic
Just don't get hit 
round gale
I’ll murder you personally with chaos shield throw
waxen relic
I'll reflect it with Hades' Spin
mossy zinc
Well, try it then.
waxen relic
If you look at the high heat clears they use acorn again.
round gale
Well, try it then.
is there anything that’s particularly good against him?
i mean yeah try everything myself but
mossy zinc
Like Atticor said, the go-to is Acorn. Doesn't mean it's the best in the fight, though.
round gale
my problem with acorn is that I waste it on cheap attacks(which is my problem yes, but something more consistent would be better)
you know what they say, kill die learn repeat
oh also
when he heals does he heal from vases remaining?
edgy arrow
i think so?
ripe crane
There is an animation showing the vase he is sucking life from
You can break it to stop the heal
edgy arrow
i just focus on dealing damage to him and have no smart plans, so i never really found out lol
round gale
alright, break vases noted
mossy zinc
I dunno, I'm fed up with EM4 at the moment, personally.
Even non-EM, his skulls are so annoying now at FO2.
bronze viper
So much Rama love recently <3. Only a matter of time until it collects notoriety and people start decrying for its nerfs because it's so "obviously" broken.
round gale
just faced it for the first time so ig I want to beat it just for the sake of having beaten it lol
ripe crane
I don't even attempt runs without Athena dash. Skulls don't feel too bad at FO2 with it. I die to everything else
mossy zinc
I don't know why they made them no longer disappear when Deflecting when that was a thing for over a year at least and the only remaining complaint some people had with the fight was skull spam.
bronze viper
I don't even attempt runs without Athena dash. Skulls don't feel too bad at FO2 with it. I die to everything else
@ripe crane It is very funny that after they buffed skulls to not be destroyed after deflecting, that Divine Dash became even more obligatory in that fight because of the spear mechanics
mossy zinc
I liked the RI3 FO2 fight before, but it's just frustrating now.
On another topic, anyone else feel disappointed when they get Deathless Stand instead of Last Stand?
ripe crane
Which is the extra life%? I think I prefer that one
glacial gulch
help i'm trying to beat the game at 32🔥 but no matter what I choose I die at the first mini-boss
ripe crane
The extra invulnerability is cool with fists though
mossy zinc
Last Stand is HP.
edgy arrow
i legitimately forgot they did anything besides DD recharge lmao
round gale
help i'm trying to beat the game at 32🔥 but no matter what I choose I die at the first mini-boss
for me I used shattered shackle for tartarus in case I don’t get a main attack boon and die early
edgy arrow
now i think about it it does feel like the HP would mostly just be better tho
the problem with the shackle is you can’t seed your boon pool early
you could get absolutely anything in tartarus with the shackle equipped, and that’s kinda risky
tho i guess it’s not much time lost if you die lol
round gale
unless we get a keepsake that guarantees a hammer to spawn ahead, it’s bearable
rocky mauve
Hammer is more or less already guaranteed, occupying a whole keepsake slot for it to spawn a few rooms ahead would be useless
mossy zinc
I should probably be recording this 40 Hades run lol. Oh well.
So much easier than Guan Yu.
And 2-sack. Blessed run.
mossy zinc
Still gotta fight Hades.
You should record them + the previous death if you want to get on the "leaderboard" for unseeded.
sly remnant
oh yea thats not victory screen
i didn't realize 40 heat mattered. i thought it was only 50 for leaderboard
sly remnant
now i can say congrats
ripe crane
I think I'm about to give up on anything over 40. 40 means I don't have to turn on HL or JS. Feels so much easier.
Though I'm trying 44 now. Maybe I just go 42 on everything
bronze viper
I have found somewhere around 45 to be the range at which yolo'ing becomes considerably harder.
mossy zinc
Playing Hades Aspect after practicing Guan Yu like: https://media1.tenor.com/images/64daf7b6b5d21b5dc5bc7aa018f7ccb9/tenor.gif
ripe crane
I was messing with Hestia yesterday after hours of punching, it was weird not using SD every room
wanton plover
im allergic to js
bronze viper
It is a pretty bad language
mossy zinc
I like to avoid HL with Malphon.
bronze viper
Lol, people be calling the 32 Malphon setup I made yesterday crazy.
mossy zinc
What setup?
bronze viper
Another 32 pact help question, for Malphon, but they were relatively new and they balked at: https://imgur.com/a/f79wZcv
bronze viper
Yeah they're pretty interchangable, but I think TD3 has a higher naked fail rate than JS3
ripe crane
I would add a DC and remove a JS I think
bronze viper
2nd DC is a little sus if you start Curse of Agony
mossy zinc
DC2 isn't the most fun, yeah.
I'd probably do JS3 CP2 DC2 TD3 with my original build and then get mad at the nerfs every time I time out.
wanton plover
what was nerfed
mossy zinc
Everything. 
wanton plover
:(
ripe crane
Eh, I didn't run into any time issues yesterday at 44 with DC2 while trying ME builds. Punching twice seems faster than 20% more enemies. I also just can't stop punching. Don't think I could punch once if I wanted.
mossy zinc
Deadly Reversal requirements, Hunter Dash scaling, Support Fire scaling, Deflect damage to bosses, Deflect making skulls disappear, Spent Spirit becoming Calculated Risk and moving from Ladies Aphrodite + Athena to Lady Athena and Lord Dionysus, oh and the attack speed buff on Zagreus Aspect's first hit was removed.
Meanwhile the ME build had requirements nerfed and combo damage lowered from 50 to 40 lol.
ripe crane
I didn't start playing till 1.0 so I'm not sure what the pre-nerf felt like, but yesterday was the first time I used ME and it felt like the fastest build I'd ever had.
mossy zinc
lol yeah the nerf to ME doesn't really matter.
edgy arrow
the nerf wasn’t to ME’s effectiveness; they just made it harder to get online (divine dash used to be a possible prereq)
hollow lynx
RIP hunter dash not applying to deadly reversal
sly remnant
^that's a really odd nerf to me
sly remnant
i understand why the changes happened for balance reasons
edgy arrow
deadly reversal was good, merciful end was ludicrous
sly remnant
but i think i would have done it a different way
edgy arrow
treating them the same is a baffling choice
mossy zinc
Hunter Dash was never a requirement for Deadly Reversal.
mossy zinc
It wasn't lol.
hollow lynx
it absolutely was lol
bronze viper
I think the DR nerf was just because Deadly Strike/Flourish + Divine Dash was already pretty much best in slot for a million weapons, so they didn't want 20% more crit to just be obligatory standard for that
edgy arrow
divine dash was tho, right?
bronze viper
But I don't necessarily think it was warranted, either.
hollow lynx
both divine and hunter dash were requirements until 1.0
mossy zinc
No.
hollow lynx
yes
one of my favorite hades spear builds pre-1.0 was getting divine strike/hunter dash and going for DR lol
sly remnant
fwiw the wiki has hunter dash a req for deadly reversal. i have no idea how reliable that is
it could be out-of-date, wrong, etc.
all the steam patch note says is "adjusted requirements"
hollow lynx
ah, might as well edit that out now
mossy zinc
Anyway, the nerfs just hit melee hard and widened the gap between melee and ranged.
Same with skulls no longer disappearing and whatever EM4 is supposed to be for melee.
sly remnant
i'm curious how ranged weapons have managed to avoid nerfs like this
sly remnant
ah i only started with 1.0
mossy zinc
Coronacht got big buffs in 1.0. Eris got buffs it never needed lol.
edgy arrow
so many aspect could have used that 15% damage boost
why eris lol
it’s hogging all the percents
ripe crane
I think my next 42 attempt will be shield. I guess chaos, maybe zag though. Wanna try out Zeus special and poseidon attack for some sort of sea storm build, have never done one of those. Does this seem viable for shield at that heat level?
mossy zinc
Tempest Strike? 
ripe crane
I figure shield already knocks people back, might as well go all in on it >:)
mossy zinc
Tempest Strike scaling is terrible, though.
ripe crane
Your doubt only spurs me to prove you wrong
By that I mean spend hours on attempts and then get mad when it never works
trim sigil
Well, you can always go for second wave to punch everything in walls for 1k dmg, buuut it won't function on bosses aside from theseus (and even then barely 100 dmg)
That's probably where Sea Storm comes to work
ripe crane
That is my hope
ripe crane
Very good start until I accidentally opened a trove xD
ripe crane
Oh for real? Wow. Well I wasted 30 seconds on that then. Still made it out but with only 50 seconds left. Got sea storm in Tartarus but wow yeah this damage is abysmal
mossy zinc
You were warned.
ripe crane
I think I have to hope for the double strike on attack
Cause I absolutely need Athena dash
mossy zinc
It will probably proc Sea Storm only once.
ripe crane
Oh? That would make sense if it's bolt mechanics.
true fable
wait you can leave in the middle of a trove
wanton plover
yes try it
true fable
thats so lolzy
waxen relic
I used that to proc SD once, but the flamewheel that killed me blasted me to the other door lol
mossy zinc
true fable
@ripe crane they fixed the hestia doubleshot you were talking about in the test branch
ripe crane
Oh nice. I was getting it often, it seemed to be associated with the gun jamming that someone else mentioned (maybe you?)
ripe crane
All right, I actually only had sea storm once and that run didn't make it far. Zeus special is clearing rooms fairly quickly, especially after getting jolted. My last attempt also had the +4 bounces and that really netted me a lot of time, but I died to bull man. That run had aphro attack and I feel like that could be successful, especially if smoldering air/athena call happens. Thoughts?
There's also demeter, 10 seconds of jolted vs FO2 dad could put in some work. Might just take Zeus first and then pick up whichever first I see of Demeter/Poseidon/Aphro for attack and see how that goes. This is 42 heat. Not sure whatv else I can be going for on a non-Beo shield
mossy zinc
Drunken Flourish on Chaos Aspect.
ME on Zag Aspect.
Well, ME should work on Chaos Aspect, too.
ripe crane
Could try the drunken flourish, I've ignored dio for a long time. I was using Zag for the Zeus runs
true fable
what's the preferred setup for ME on chaos? divine strike or curse of agony?
mossy zinc
¯_(ツ)_/¯
No idea.
I guess either one should work. You'd also want Divine Dash.
I've seen both Divine Strike + Curse of Pain and Curse of Agony + Divine Flourish before 1.0.
bronze viper
Pretty sure you want Curse of Pain because it's an actually usable build if you don't get ME
mossy zinc
Bull Rush with Curse of Agony isn't actually too bad, either.
bronze viper
Yeah it's my favorite secondary damage source but it'll still be pretty miserable with just Divine Flourish
ripe crane
I would think, if possible, switching to curse of agony after you get ME may be a good idea
bronze viper
Doom on both? Yeah maybe. Not like Divine Strike is doing much. That's a lot to go right though.
mossy zinc
I don't know about that. Anytime you're dashing to proc ME, then, you're not Bull Rushing or throwing your Special.
bronze viper
Shrug, I could see that. Never did ME on Chaos, have no real idea how well it would work.