Or "imagine a boss attack but now it's done by 10 entities at once"
#h1-high-heat-strategies
bronze viper
Lol, I think the ignorance comes from me assuming that I can kill them in one attack.
ripe crane
Thoughts on high heat Hestia? Eris is cool and all but... I like Hestia more.
mossy zinc
JS0 DC0.
bronze viper
You get 4 heat free-er than other aspects with EM4
sand valve
are 4th aspect weapons better than aspect 1 or are they balanced
bronze viper
That's a weird question in general. There is no single answer for that.
Game is generally balanced. Some are better. Some are worse.
sand valve
ok just was wondering if maybe 4th aspect was better in general
proud jay
I'd say 4th is worse in general because of slow animations
bronze viper
That is true in the instances where the Zag aspect is just really bad.
proud jay
But rama is quite the powerhouse all of a sudden
sand valve
reason why i asked is some aspects require more blood to max out so i thought maybe there was a correlation
bronze viper
And some 4th aspects are also.... Just really bad
sand valve
which weapon is rama again?
bronze viper
Bow hidden
sand valve
i think i still need to max that 1 out. did it get a buff?
bronze viper
To speed of power shot, yes
trim sigil
To be fair, most aspects have the same price, just different cost progression style. Only zagreus is significally cheaper
sand valve
cool
trim sigil
(and as a result, fairly underwhelming)
sand valve
@trim sigil i see so some are 135 and others 333 but in the end it's the same
trim sigil
But at very least shield, bow, and rail zag aspects are competitive in my eyes
And yeah exactly
trim sigil
Eris rail
Eris rail
mossy zinc
Eris rail
sand valve
the special absorb one yeah i had the rocket hammer with that it worked well
mossy zinc
Lightning Strike, Tidal Dash, Sea Storm.
mossy zinc
6 Heat.
sand valve
thx
bronze viper
More specific questions about that can be directed to the speedrunning discord
lost otter
My high heat tier list.
@mossy zinc
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/764819599711272960/768113295424749608/unknown.png
bold estuary
guys, what is the best aspect of the shield nowadays for 32 heat run ?
bronze viper
Any of them
Chaos probably easiest, pretty popular opinion, but it's very subjective
bold estuary
even with the nerf ?
trim sigil
even with the rework
bronze viper
We are typically of the opinion here that anything is viable at 32
bold estuary
i see thanks
lost otter
just choose shiled what you pref.
bold estuary
what is a common build for chaos shield ? zeus on special and athena for defensive i guess ?
bronze viper
With something on attack to supplement the damage, like Doom or Chill (for Cold Fusion)
Thunder Flourish's single target damage is abysmal otherwise
lost otter
common build)This game dont have common build. all time its preference.
i prefer poseidon on chaos shield
bronze viper
Lol that doesn't mean common builds don't exist. Chaos was one of the most used aspects in Blood Price, we have a lot of data points. I'm not saying it's the best build, but it's the one most people are still going to use until something better comes along.
bold estuary
thanks mates
lost otter
Common build o not exist. becaus for me Thunder Flourish WASTE of special. becaus poeseidon much stronger. you dont even need to use charget special to clear room after you have half of build.
bronze viper
Common means commonly used. It doesn't mean optimal.
Also I had like, literally no issues with Thunder Flourish at 40 and 43 with Chaos, it's hardly bad.
trim sigil
Whatever that thing shown was, it looks like tons of zeus + sea storm. Which is indeed admirable, but extremely hard to assemble
Had tried similar stuf on chiron bow recently
bronze viper
9!??!
Yeah, we play very different games lmao
I start calling combinations inconsistent at 3
trim sigil
When I barely get to see 3+ boons from one god, yeah it's tons
lost otter
yup. we play in different game. becaus even in 49 heat i can have total 5closed slots and 15-20 boons with me
lost otter
but 49 heat its celling for having so much boons.
oblique wagon
@polar isle Do you play with Dark Foresight?
@trim sigil Sorry.
I got the wrong crab. 😉
trim sigil
I do, whenever accessible
bronze viper
Whoever Crab is is going to be slightly confused
trim sigil
(RI1 is an option that blocks DF after all)
oblique wagon
I don't play with it yet because I need darkness, but with it turned on you certainly see more boons.
bronze viper
The only reason to not use it is if you're doing RI1
In which case you literally can't
rocky mauve
DF gives mostly more hearts and coins instead of boons
oblique wagon
Oh ya, that's true.
bronze viper
DF gives megaboons
trim sigil
Well, also farming runs, but supposedly it's faster to just beat game asap instead of getting blue laurel rooms
and DF definitely helps with getting consistent Styx material purchase
oblique wagon
I just keep randoming my weapon and creeping up in heat to get all the weapons unlocked.
bronze viper
Yeah I dislike the Blue Laurel farming argument in general lol. Fish and Broker are a lot faster for generating meta currency
rocky mauve
Don't get me wrong, it's op but I don't feel like it makes building more consistent
trim sigil
You can just get 9 dionysis instead of 6, for sure 
bronze viper
I typically always have UC on, and playing Blood Price into 1.0 with DF was extremely noticable
for not having to spend Gold to buy garbage buffer boons
rocky mauve
It is for sure
trim sigil
Well at least RI1 isn't as free anymore ig
(never was, but now it's as hard pick as RI2)
trim sigil
Yup
bronze viper
RI1 is just... not worth taking for 2 heat
dry flame
yeah i dont take any RI on fun runs
lost otter
For me fun runs its SD. becaus you can take tons of damage with out punishing. and heal back from dead in end of room.
sly remnant
i just play super soaker on high heat for fun runs
polar isle
@oblique wagon i do actually
oblique wagon
@polar isle Sorry for tagging you.
ripe crane
🦀 Crab 🦀 has 🦀 arrived 🦀
trim sigil
you just did it again
oblique wagon
Lol. This time I meant to!
polar isle
crabe
honest kernel
why am i able to alter the rooms/rewards when it's disabled on my mirror ? (with the pact of punishment)
is it a bug?
trim sigil
^
honest kernel
ok but it's disabled on the mirror, that's why i'm confused
trim sigil
You can even get fated authority that way without ever unlocking last part of mirror
hollow lynx
it still works even if disabled
trim sigil
You just get 0 starting benefit but it still functions
honest kernel
and this is 100% not a bug ?
hollow lynx
makes keys much more valuable imo, it used to disable keys' secondary benefit as well
trim sigil
I believe same for Stygian Soul
hollow lynx
it was an intentional change
honest kernel
ok ok nice, thanks
quasi panther
How high do heat bounties go?
mossy zinc
20 in normal mode, 25 in hell mode.
wanton plover
not missing much tbh
quasi panther
Yeah it's not really for me. Good luck to those who enjoy that sort of thing though :)
trim sigil
Literally only missing out on 1 not-so-free heat of Personal Liability
and extra torture farming first 20 runs
wanton plover
and less flexibility in the pact kekw
oblique wagon
I wish Hell mode was worth it.
wanton plover
would be bad to lock anything that affects gameplay behind this mode so itd be cosmetic or something anyway
lost otter
rama ares special pretty strong and different build.can not remember who advise this. but ty
im forgot about attack button honestly 🤣
@daring hedge remebmer you stop spears with rama attack? attack can stop skulls too. What a cheats man....
ember bronze
LC + Draining Cutter = ?
0, not 0?
Tested, 0
Separately
What kinds of damage does "Ambush" Chaos buff? Anything?
true fable
im p sure thats backstab
ember bronze
attack and special, or any damage?
true fable
anything that can backstab afaik
bronze viper
rama ares special pretty strong and different build.can not remember who advise this. but ty
@lost otter It was probably me? Yeah, it's surprisingly strong. I've only ever had Doom on special because it was offered to me in the middle of a run, but it may interesting to try build for it with Relentless Volley, Dire Misfortune, Impending Dom, and Curse of Longing (with Aphro attack).
ember bronze
If you're playing SD
And you have Deathless Stand
Can you also stack Last Stand to have 3 lives going into Hades?
wraith imp
Yes
wraith imp
However, there's a trick to getting it.
ember bronze
!
wraith imp
Make sure your SD is used up before taking athena so that the new athena boon fills the SD slot and then SD will replenish in next room.
lost otter
@bronze viper some one was falling in love on ares special on Rama bow. I will definitely not forget you)
ember bronze
Right, yeah
bronze viper
Chaos is the exception to that, you do not not SD down to get Chaos' DD
ember bronze
so once I have one Athena life
I can die once in an Athena room
so have Athena + open slot
and get another?
wraith imp
@bronze viper
Interesting, I didn't know that. Good to know. That's the one boon I still haven't gotten in this game. It's also the only prophecy i haven't fulfilled yet.
bronze viper
Geez, 5000 IQ play to use Hazard Bomb (... with TD off probably lol) to get Athena's DDs in non-Asphodel shops
ember bronze
I know
My normal DD logic is the opposite
take Athena second to get the DD back if you need it, while also hoping it's the sack
It's worth doing another hallway since I have Styx Dark and didn't heal up in that one
bronze viper
It's fine, I've lost a DD before (not an SD) to qualify for an Athena DD.
ember bronze
I'm very new to play SD so don't have habit
wraith imp
So @bronze viper, is it possible to walk into chaos fight with 4 defiances in high heat?
chaos
2x athena
stubbon defiance
ember bronze
yesterday I almost reflexively stood in lava after already losing one
bronze viper
- Lucky Tooth
ember bronze
My girlfriend yelled at me
wraith imp
@bronze viper
You're right. So 5 is possible.
bronze viper
TFW when you undershoot a dash and don't see the RB prompt come up
Or whatever equivalent to enter doors for KBM/Switch people lol
bronze viper
Oh definitely not, he was asking how many DDs you can have in the last fight
true fable
ah gotcha
bronze viper
Acorn4lyfe
lost otter
@bronze viper
You're right. So 5 is possible.
@wraith imp https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/764819599711272960/765580601192873984/unknown.png
ember bronze
5 is normally possible
I think the question is whether it was possible with SD
(yes)
true fable
they got two from chaos
bronze viper
Chaos does not have a cap
true fable
exclusive access strats lol
wraith imp
woah, chaos can give multiple death defiances?
ember bronze
Does EA help legendary chance?
bronze viper
Idk probably. Rarity is such a weird thing in Hades
bronze viper
Yarn and Refreshing Nectar help with legendaries/duos, so who knows
true fable
the person who posted with two in one run had EA
wraith imp
the person who posted with two in one run had EA
@true fable
good to know...
if i were routing a (near) max heat run, I think i would aim for stubborn roots, exclusive access, and sea storm/merciful doom.
true fable
and stubborn roots regens once you loose your SD right
wraith imp
yes
wraith imp
yes, it activates once all your dds are gone.
ember bronze
oh?
bronze viper
(exclusive access is totally pointless if you're routing the run anyway lmao)
wraith imp
(exclusive access is totally pointless if you're routing the run anyway lmao)
@bronze viper
i was wondering about that...
ember bronze
So you can have Stubborn Roots going with an Athena in reserve?
bronze viper
You can cheatyface Stubborn Roots using Lucky Tooth
ember bronze
Is that true only with SD (where Athena is "outside" your SD slot), or also with DD?
bronze viper
Which is the max heat "meta" (you really can't call it that lol, but it is what has been used)
ember bronze
Does Roots work with LC?
bronze viper
Yeah
wraith imp
like...could i engineer chaos at least once in every zone to get 3 death defiances without EA?
I'm kind of new to routing so it's a question i have...
ember bronze
Also: first 32 with EM4, since #h1-victory-boasting
Roots with LC is bonkers
I wouldn't have expected
but anyway way, turns out EM4 is less terrifying is FO0?
bronze viper
I'm not a pro router, it has to be within the possibility space of the seed, and within the patience and tolerance of the router (unless there's a mod or tool for it, which there probably is at this point).
ember bronze
Everything is less terrifying at FO0?
wraith imp
i think roots was introduced by AAAAAMMMMMIIIIIRRRRRRRRRR as an olive branch to high heat runners on LC4.
ripe crane
I would rather EM4 than FO2, but not FO1. I think.
bronze viper
EM4 is a whole lot less scary without FO2. A lot of his stuff is way more reactable, and the summons are also a lot less obnoxious
ember bronze
I don't know, I was turned to the possibility of playing FO0 yesterday, and 32 has never been easier
ember bronze
Ok so EM4:
true fable
feels like im moving in bullet time
true fable
bottom right corner is safe from cerberus i think
bronze viper
Cerberus has a soft dead zone on the bottom right of the map
ember bronze
Phase 3: he has both P1 and P2 abilities? I think had both pots and Darkness
bronze viper
It's not safe, but a lot less crap spawns there
ember bronze
and Cerberus is at the 50% pause?
true fable
you also dont get stomped for 1 DD like i did hahaha
bronze viper
Not really sure, I've had Cerberus spawn at a lot of percentages
ripe crane
I feel like it's always under 50% but can be any time after that
Phase 3 also shreds 🤘
true fable
phase 3 music seems like it was lots of fun to record
ember bronze
I got Gorgon and Butterfly and instantly lost my Acorn, but other than that, nothing was really scary
Oh--I got Skullcrusher and it didn't do the Middle Management nova?
bronze viper
don't give them any ideas
ripe crane
I don't think they have middle management perks, just Hades' darkness?
bronze viper
It's bad enough that skulls no longer destroy on deflect
true fable
@ripe crane ive definitely seen the balls teleport
ripe crane
I could be wrong
bronze viper
They don't teleport, they use Dad's invis
ripe crane
Ya they just have darkness. Everything does. But not a direct teleport
ripe crane
Except the sneak
waxen relic
Somebody explain to me why you can get a charging sound on spear before it's ready to release a spin
bronze viper
It's way worse in practice, since they're gone for like some annoying amount of seconds. 5 maybe?
ripe crane
Gonna ask this here because nobody in the combat channel has responded. I am occasionally getting double shots of my hestia damage. Once or twice per run. Is that a known thing? Is it able to be replicated?
I'm going to start recording runs if my laptop can handle it to demonstrate
bronze viper
I've heard of that happening. Not sure though.
cerulean frigate
i haven't had that happen but i have had the hestia empowered shot fire an the rail keeps firing, but no projectiles come out until i hit reload. even if i'm not holding the attack button it'll do that sometimes
bronze viper
It's a "feature" on all of the rails, if you empty your clip you need to dash and refire to "automatically" trigger a reload or press reload
cerulean frigate
i'm talking about the first shot, then at 11/12 remaining, nothing comes out
bronze viper
Oh. Definitely F10 that, that's never happened to me
cerulean frigate
it's only happened on Hestia
mossy zinc
That's a bug that should have been fixed by now. F10 when it happens.
mossy zinc
Guan Yu: "I have this strong but slow throw, but I have to play with HL10."
Eris: "I am a light machine gun and everything does +75% damage and I can Call faster than Smoldering Air."
Guan Yu: "
"
cerulean frigate
i can't get it to reproduce
mossy zinc
You'd think it's fanfic, but it's actually canon.
cerulean frigate
I'll have to unlock archive and look at everything that was on it
mossy zinc
If you can't reproduce it, you should still F10 it just so they're made aware there's still an issue with it.
lost otter
Hello im poseidon sword and have 50% to cast damage.
Hello im Talos and have 50% damage to attack and cast
Hello I am Eris light machine gun and i have 75% damage to all source of damage.
mossy zinc
Poseidon and Talos:
lost otter
ripe crane
Hi I'm Zag spear, I get thrown further away than normal. I'm trying my best :^)
cerulean frigate
hello i am Zagreus sword and I have 15% move and attack speed
radiant sequoia
15% zoomin'
mossy zinc
Everyone: Shut up, Zagreus sword.
Chiron: I can no-hit encounters by carefully shooting arrows from afar.
Eris: I can no-hit everything by shooting and dashing like a maniac—and faster than you.
hollow lynx
crack ship: chiron x eris
lost otter
I would like only a small change so that the bonus to attack and special from aspects would work for Zeus Ares and Dionysus. Becaus with out this this 3 gods Have alote lower priority becaus dont take benefit
proud jay
zeus and ares are utilized a lot in speedruns
dio isn't bad either imo
buffing their damage would make them no-brainers
lost otter
like eris?)
lost otter
How i remember only hades spear,ahillies spear and talos have bonus to attack or special. im talking about them. To ares,dio and zeus work on it with this bonus
becaus now....why you need dio or zeus or ares on ahillies or hades spear attack? uselles waste of extremly powerfull buff.
cerulean frigate
Zagreus: Hey Mother can I get a decent attack boon
Persephone: We have a decent attack boon at home
The decent attack boon at home: Tempest Strike
ember bronze
2 runs in a row I've whiffed Last Stand after setting it up in act 2, with rerolls
trying to decide, in general, which is worse for my build efficiency
RI1 or AP1
bronze viper
They're close in terms of boon economy, though I believe AP1 edges out RI1 because of the extra effective health and gold that DF provides.
And 4 rerolls
ember bronze
Yeah, AP is just so frustrating, heh
Got to Hades for the first time on 40, died
30s left starting P3
3-sack caused me to miss both TD and my Patty buff
or I'd have won
proud jay
How i remember only hades spear,ahillies spear and talos have bonus to attack or special. im talking about them. To ares,dio and zeus work on it with this bonus
@lost otter there are other things that increase attack/special damage, such as chaos boons, fiery presence/backstab from the mirror, and non-zeus/dio/ares boons. it'd be kinda weird for aspect bonuses to have an additional tooltip to include zeus/ares/dio attack/special boons
lost otter
@proud jay it can be without a tooltip. Just like on Eris it is not indicated that it increases the damage of all sources. that blocking the shield causes DR to be triggered. The Rama stops the spear and the skull of Hades with a shot.Artur special switch off all traps including lava and slow down all projectile speed.
Becaus Come on. Some one look serios on Hades spear aspect? or ahillies attack builds? or talos at all?
proud jay
hades spear is good
even if not utilized that much currently
anyway i feel like if zeus/dio/ares got an additional buff on their attack/special, especially if it's something like 150% in the case of achilles spear, it'd be kinda broken
lost otter
my idea might just diversify the game a little for these aspects and not break the balance.
does such a small gain do anything compared to how broken Eris or ME is now.
proud jay
yeah i get your point
lost otter
I dont say aspect good or bad. But this 3 gods...almost never be on attack on aspect with Attack increasing
bronze viper
I can't speak for the speedrunner meta, but Eris is not the best by a significant margin for heat.
I wouldn't even come close to calling it broken in that context
proud jay
eris is quite good for high heat, even in blood price at 60%
lost otter
eris from NN update be 60%
bronze viper
The 15% was pretty inconsequential for its playstyle. It's nice, but the weapon did not fundamentally change because of it
lost otter
come on 15% global damage inconsequential ?
proud jay
15% does make a difference
bronze viper
It does, but it's not the difference between "this is good" and "this is broken"
lost otter
15% blobal damage huge
ember bronze
Still unnecessary buff, presumably just because players were sleeping on it
lost otter
for comparison, talos got 10% for attack and cast. and Eris 15% damage from everything.
FF max have 25%. average buff on High heat is 15%
ember bronze
And--I find Eris so powerful and easy to play, that it seems like a great weapon for progressing on Heat
proud jay
gotta keep in mind most changes aren't made with high heat players or speedrunners in mind
ember bronze
Learning with Eris means you have less trouble due to easy combats, and also less trouble with TD3 than most weapons
bronze viper
I think it's a relatively bad faith argument to say that something is broken this early on, when there are so few people 40+. As it happens, some of our best players have shown a preference for Eris, so it's outperforming other weapons
Give it time, it's not even close to the only weapon capable of those heats
ember bronze
Yeah, but Eris seemed easy and strong for casual play too
proud jay
i'll be happy to say that eris is definitely the strongest consistent weapon
ember bronze
bigger damage buff than most aspects, affects everything, setup is trivial to have it up consistently in combat
lost otter
i think if the same speedrunners want they can easily make 55 heat. but they just have another goals
lost otter
Becaus most experience Eris players do speedruns
ember bronze
Eris you just do a thing before the wave starts, and 8 sec (usually long enough for a wave), you're just better at ... everything
bronze viper
I don't think the skillsets convert quite as cleanly as you seem to have the impression they do lol
daring hedge
despite eris' power, i wouldn't say any weapon at 55 would be done "easily"
ember bronze
I'm just saying I think it's one of the best weapons at all levels of play, and the buff seemed wrong
proud jay
even 50 is hard to do with most aspects
lost otter
But with eris you can take EVERY thing and its work amazing and all in one time.calls,cast,special,attack,dash,duo(i dont say about 5 rockets builds cheats 
). and this weapon have 75% buff. it more than highly specialized aspects, and even highly specialized aspects are limited in their choice of gods.(like i say befor zeus,ares,dio on weapons with attack increasing).
bronze viper
I mean, attack damage boons are still trash on Eris to be fair
ember coral
for heats 22+ i still get TB from final boss?
hollow lynx
if you’re playing normal, bounties stop at 20 (hell mode stops at 25)
hollow lynx
titan blood is a type of bounty, so they stop being given after those thresholds
muted fossil
you can always buy the Titan blood from the broker
true fable
this channel has converted me to the church of rama
charge speed actually is not as big an issue as i thought it would be
ripe crane
I have had three runs in a row with basically perfect RNG, then I choke on dad phase 3. Feels bad man. What are the high heat strats for not panicking?
ripe crane
I should do that. I actually had my acorn until middle of phase 2 despite getting 2 sneaks in phase 1. But the closer I get to finishing, the more nervous I get. Even if I had just used my summon he would've died
true fable
dang that's a toughie i feel that
daring hedge
one day i'll convert more people to understand that spear spin is also not unreasonable to use in combat
but that one is tougher
true fable
youve lost me
daring hedge
don't make me link my hades spear 50+'s
daring hedge
flaring spin as my first hammer too
ember bronze
Another 36 down #h1-victory-boasting
daring hedge
nice, good ol' ME
ember bronze
yop
daring hedge
is your brightness normally that high or is it the classic side effect of phase 3 settings strats
true fable
i feel like greater reflex is one of the best boons you can get on it
daring hedge
yeah, greatest reflex just makes ME more ridiculous than it already is
ripe crane
Hm. Maybe I will try the brightness strat
daring hedge
it's generally worth it because one of the biggest threats during phase 3 is just hades being mostly offscreen and you not keeping tabs on a skull or a spear that's about to skewer you
daring hedge
it's not like it changes the rules or what is potentially visible. even with average brightness, you can generally see the same things... (you just might need to squint instead)
ripe crane
Huh.... I just realized I play with Flux running which makes me screen reddish/darker anyway. I can see almost nothing.
Maybe I've accidentally been playing with an extra heat setting on D:
daring hedge
advanced darkness
loud coral
Trying to do 32 Heat rn, is it best to try and minimize LC or just go all in and turn it up to 100% then take SD? I tend to use up most DDs in Asphodel or Styx (Dad included), so not sure if I should take SD or not
ripe crane
LC/SD is difficult and not necessary at 32 from what I was told when I asked that question 😛
mossy zinc
I'd say do either LC0 CF0 or LC4 CF0–2.
loud coral
Probably gonna do LC4 CF1 then, if I'm lucky Athena basically gives me 3 SDs so that seems compelling
loud coral
Ah, ok. Still seems good then since I usually don't need more than one defiance per encounter aside from Dad
daring hedge
@true fable yep, just pop your menu open and crank the brightness up after phase 2
true fable
got it
loud coral
Is that actually viable? You're kinda already focused on Dad who's usually not on the corners of the screen
ripe crane
Is there anything more depressing than 4sack?
mossy zinc
Yes.
ripe crane
Don't say 5sack
mossy zinc
Being rejected by the love of your life on your birthday.
true fable
5 sack you can at least have the novelty of having gotten a 5 sack i think
4 sack is just miserable and unremarkable
side note i saw an image here when i first joined of someone getting like 400 damage on a hangover tick
anyone know what that was/how that happened
ripe crane
Oh I'm sure legerdamayn would love to answer that one
loud coral
Even if you haven't lost too much health by 4sack the mental drain is enough to make you wanna end the run right then and there
ripe crane
I started the fight at just under 3 minutes. Still made it to phase 3 but died. Didn't have quite enough damage 😦
cerulean frigate
okay getting 7 hp per kill on crawlers in styx off Draining Cutter is actually hilarious
loud coral
Wait 400 damage on hangover? That's hard, but probably possible with Low Tolerance, Pressure Points (can hangover crit?), and tons of poms
mossy zinc
Hangover can crit, yes.
cerulean frigate
when it says everything can crit it means it
loud coral
Seeing how people can get Lvl. 30 boons, it's probably more than possible to get 400 damage per tick
cerulean frigate
i learned that the poison pools rats in styx leave behind don't immediately poison you, nor do damage, but stepping on them for a brief moment will trigger revenge effects anyway
ripe crane
Dear lord Zeus, almost panicked myself into defeat once again. 36 with Hestia done 😄
Who was talking about Rama shots stopping Hades' spear chuck? Because Hestia shots also stop it
daring hedge
i guess i was one of the people talking about it since i was the first to point it out after doing it yeah
it seems attacks and specials in general can halt it
bronze viper
I assume you have to hit him before he throws the spear?
daring hedge
just the spear itself while it travels
bronze viper
I thought @ripe crane was referring to your masterful Repulse Shot technology lmao
ripe crane
No lol, just shooting the spear midair. I just assumed it was only Hestia shots, but apparently Tail has figured out it's anything
bronze viper
Interesting. I'll have to try doing that intentionally, instead of my current strategy of mentally asking Dad politely to please let me finish this charge.
ember bronze
daring hedge
@bronze viper it's really silly with rama special #h1-high-heat-strategies message
bronze viper
Oh that's really cool. Good to know
daring hedge
yeah, with the attack too #h1-high-heat-strategies message
pretty much any weapon theoretically with good timing
ripe crane
Seeing that Eris run makes me kinda jealous. Zeus on attack is my favorite thing in the game. Grats to you @ember bronze
bronze viper
@daring hedge That was a bold location to start a charge shot with Twin Shot lol. Paid off obv
loud coral
I'd try that out more but I don't have the courage to try and parry EM4 Dad with a spear
daring hedge
yeah lol, i think i was expecting him to approach for spin or something
loud coral
Which boon is it boosting?
ember bronze
Lightning Strike (only thing I had at the time)
queen patio
Hi Everyone!
I am going to attempt a 32 heat run with Hera's bow:
Are the conditions I chose good, or really bad and I change change?
Besides that, I am planning to use poseidon cast with the bow to try to keep enemies away as much as possible, while having a nice Aoe. Is there another cast that would be better with the bow?
Also, what is worse? BP maxed, or FO maxed?
bronze viper
DC is kind of a disaster with Hera
loud coral
Probably FO in my opinion, unless you have Demeter it'll mess you up pretty bad
bronze viper
I'm... not sure. I've left them both on for so long it feels kind of weird to not have them at high heat lol.
ripe crane
I would recommend maybe splitting hard labor/lasting consequences, unless you are very confident with bosses, they can kill you pretty quickly at +100% damage
bronze viper
The first rank of LC does next to nothing, at the very least.
loud coral
You can also go full on LC4 and just abuse Stubborn Defiance if you want, though you'll want to make sure you get Athena for the extra defiances
ripe crane
I am looking at this picture trying to figure out how it's only 32 heat. It looks like all of the painful stuff is on lol.
If you turn down calisthenics program, you can turn timer up to 7:00 since you'll be killing faster
bronze viper
JS3 CP2 might be a bit annoying on Hera. Personal preference but I'd much rather have JS0 CP0 DC0 with BP2 and TD2
(I would personally move the DC2 to CF2, but I know a lot of people hate that pact)
If you leave CF2 for long enough you start making those prices mentally canonical then the next time you have it off, everything is on a crazy discount :3
true fable
i feel like hera might be ok with RI but im not sure
daring hedge
it's true, playing with CF2 off is wild. i see boons for 150 and go "are you kidding me what a steal"
true fable
yeah i know im just looking at the image and it seems like pain
bronze viper
it's true, playing with CF2 off is wild. i see boons for 150 and go "are you kidding me what a steal"
@daring hedge Lol, and turning LC4 off is like removing AP1 from your Wells.
ember bronze
Quick Recovery on LC4?
bronze viper
It functions
mossy zinc
@bronze viper that's what you get for not choosing Lady Aphrodite in your trials. I hope you lose every time for that.
queen patio
DC is kind of a disaster with Hera
@bronze viper thank you, thats very good to know.
I would recommend maybe splitting hard labor/lasting consequences, unless you are very confident with bosses, they can kill you pretty quickly at +100% damage
@ripe crane how would you recommend that split? Like HB3 or even less? LC would be 2?
(I would personally move the DC2 to CF2, but I know a lot of people hate that pact)
@bronze viper
Thinking about it, Changing it to DC2 would be a good idea, since I plan on using poseidon, and he can offer that boon which increases obol "production", so it might make the charon shop problem non existent by the time I am on the temple of Styx.
Anyway Thanks everyone for giving your thoughts! I'll try doing the run tomorrow and I update you if I fail horribly/snatch a win.
mossy zinc
it's true, playing with CF2 off is wild. i see boons for 150 and go "are you kidding me what a steal"
Would you look at that? I'm just gonna buy everything. Give me that food, too, I don't care if it doesn't do anything.
Just run FO0 if you want it easy.
loud coral
FO0 sounds cool, but I've been trying to keep all the damage/health modifiers on enemies moderately low as well as avoiding EM4 so I'm not sure if I can really take it
cerulean frigate
Practice with one level of fo higher than you're comfortable with at low-mid heat, then turn it down 1 for really high heat has been how I approached it
I got to the point I can combine fo with the other mods for 32-35 on some of the weapons doing that
As for DC hera you can still kill a lot of enemies in Tartarus through the dc shield in a single loaded shot with basic cast if you leave CP off, its when you combine them you have to start doing awkward stuff like using dash damage or special to strip the dc hearts off
trim sigil
Turning FO on and off aint gonna do any good. The dodge timings are going to be broken every time
Personally I'd recommend either sticking to it or not touching it at all
mossy zinc
I don't really have a problem with that tbh. Takes maybe a few minutes to get back into FO2 pace.
I think that's a myth more than anything. Maybe if you went back and forth between FO0 and FO2 every run, it'd be a problem.
trim sigil
Well, yeah a practice run or few may help to come back in shape no problem. Just that it's not exactly productive to adapt to new speed when you could be learning the game itself
mossy zinc
Depends on your goals.
trim sigil
Indeed
mossy zinc
I think a lot of the people who ask for help with 32 here aren't planning to go any higher than that.
cerulean frigate
i'd like to reach 40 on any non-eris weapon and not fail utterly
that's my goal
cerulean frigate
i've gotten close a couple times with hestia but elysium is my wall, you really feel not being able to stun enemies with attacks there. especially when it comes to chariots
chariots that move 40% faster even
dry flame
this is 45 heat apparently
cerulean frigate
honestly the worst part about the sneak is that stauses don't stay on it when it teleports
true fable
u got this
maiden geode
RUN
crimson radish
dad got me on phase 2
rigid moon
phase 2 smh
trim sigil
Have you yet located a button named "Give up?"-- yes you did. Good
random bough
rip epic deadly strike
cerulean frigate
you know, the laser cast isn't so bad when you have stygian soul with 2 stones, glacial glare and crystal clarity
but for how long it takes to get to that point you really miss boiling blood
trim sigil
Main selling point for stygian is that you do not need to pick up the blood stones anymore
ripe crane
Shooting for 40 heat on fists. Any build tips? I imagine Zeus attack/aphro special. Poseidon dash/sea storm worth going for? I will miss the safety of Athena...
sly remnant
divine dash is a part of every build for a reason
mossy zinc
Divine Strike, Divine Dash, Deadly Flourish or Heartbreak Flourish.
Or just go for Merciful End.
Lightning Strike is also okay, but you'll want Divine Dash either way.
I'd always start with the Owl Pendant, personally.
Get Divine Strike or Divine Dash, and then go from there.
bronze viper
Whenever I end up with FO2 off, the game is going in slow motion, and everything is easier to dodge. With the sole exception of Dad's spins, which are literally impossible to dodge, and will hit me no matter what I do.
mossy zinc
I'm very sure you're exaggerating lol.
His spins are so easy to evade at FO0, you can just get out of range easily.
bronze viper
I'm obv exaggerating lol, but I do remember on my first 10 heat attempt at EM4, I lost my Acorn before the Soul Catchers even spawned to whiffing 5x iframe dodges on Dad spins.
ripe crane
I think I'm gonna pull an Oversky and force myself to get through 40 heat with Zeus gloves just cause I like them and want to do it that way.
I will eventually give up and get Athena on everything, but I like to pretend I'm motivated enough to do otherwise
bronze viper
Just make sure you argue your points with much vigor and determination
trim sigil
(sadly only arthur aspect has enough vigor for that, so you may have to dodge that)
bronze viper
For the Ruthless Reflex buff nods sagely
twilit orbit
i dont know if its possible to balance ruthless reflex as a reasonable alternative, that extra dash just feels way too important to me
what might be interesting is if they just made 2 dashes the standard without needing a mirror buff
and have the two halves of the mirror give you different things when dodging an attack with a dash
like the red half gives bonus damage and the green half gives dodge chance
or something like that
edgy arrow
i mean, if ruthless reflex gave + a billion percent damage, i’d take it
twilit orbit
yeah but then it is clearly an unbalanced talent
edgy arrow
so, theoretically, there must be something in between where it’s balanced
twilit orbit
I dont think its possible to find a sweet spot where players will legitimately alternate between the two talents, because having a second dash is just so ingrained into most players muscle memory as a core gameplay aspect
either its obviously broken or its not broken and people will just use the second dash because that's what feels comfortable and the second dash is also really strong
trim sigil
Main trouble honestly is hermes dash+ boon
If it didn't exist, ruthless could be given ruthless boosts, since you are stuck with 1 dash for real
trim sigil
Well, second worst problem at least
edgy arrow
which is basically never to be fair
trim sigil
first worst is that for some reason game considers having to unlock dash upgrade a mandatory option before runs become feasible
edgy arrow
honestly it’s kinda wild to me, looking back, that you have to buy a second dash
so yeah idk maybe it should just be default
twilit orbit
my friend wanted to try out the game so we started a new file and playing with one dash was so bad lol
mossy zinc
Just play RI3. Problem solved. 
mossy zinc
I know, right? I only have the best ideas. That's the "Lady Aphrodite said hi to me today on her stream" buff.
edgy arrow
makes sense
you do always have the best ideas
one time you told me i needed to git gud; turned out you were exactly right
trim sigil
So, nyaa is just hypnos' wife. Noted
No wonder she is so good at this game, hypnos is really good at advices
Btw, found the ultimate "Just don't" difficulty prototype
rocky mauve
Needs AP2
trim sigil
Just don't use ap
That and a few more is what it's based at
EM3 is questionable tbh, but since the default weapon is not fists, i let that one pass
mossy zinc
@trim sigil but Hypnos is a guy though. 
Gilgamesh: +25% damage, 4 seconds, but you take +50% damage.
Eris: +75% damage, 8 seconds, no downsides.
If I had a support in a MMORPG who gives my party +25% damage but the enemy +50%, I'd kick them out of my party. 
rocky mauve
The debuff in the environment of hades is even worse since healing is limited
trim sigil
Supposed to never touch the smellies and enjoy Doom x4
i guess (not really)
At least the hammer strongly suggests against that
ripe crane
Apparently going from EM4 back to EM3 is a strat. No damage Hades fight. With fists! I have really underestimated how hard EM4 can be at high heat.
bronze viper
Oh for sure. I used to keep saves to practice FO2 Dad pre-1.0, but it's like so easy now by comparison lol
ripe crane
Yeah actually this was FO2 even, and I've only done FO1 EM4. I swapped the EM4 for FO2 and it was definitely the right call.
However that was only 36 heat... EM4 is "conveniently" the next 4 I need for 40 😬
ebon night
Hey! I'm going to try to beat EM4 again later/tomorrow. What keepsake should I use? I'm using Naegling and honestly could've beat him my first try if I weren't out of practice and with a bad build. (Merciful End with no doom)
mossy zinc
Acorn.
ripe crane
Acorn is generally best for survivability
ember bronze
Acorn
Reviewing my EM40 video
Hades FO0 is slow enough that you can double-dash, wait the cooldown, then dash again for the spin
ebon night
Acorn is even better with Naegling right?
ember bronze
Yeah, since its value scales with all incoming damage
but assuming you're doing anything "High Heat" and have some Hard Labor, it's way ahead of anything else
ebon night
Oh I'm only doing EM4 for now
ember bronze
even still
sweeps are 40, skulls are 20, pots are 30
so 5 hits is likely worth more than ~100 from Skelly or 125 from Cerberus
and that's before Boiling Blood gets involved
Just don't let it get munched by butterflies or a gorgon in P1
muted fossil
how much heat is considered to be high heat
sly remnant
not mentioning the real villain sneaks
mossy zinc
There's no definite line for what's high and what isn't.
A lot of people come here asking for help with getting the last Skelly prize at 32 Heat and then are never seen here again lol.
twilit orbit
i think a lot of regular people might put the mark at 32
but I feel like most of the really experienced players who post usually assume 40+ when talking about strats
mossy zinc
And of the regulars who answer their questions, a lot of us do 40+.
Yeah, 32 is too much "anything goes" for me to strategize for that—unless it's helping out somebody who's struggling with it.
I think I could streak most aspects at 32 and probably at least a few at 40. 
ebon night
sweeps 40?
ember bronze
Anyone learning to strategize around heat may as well come in here
No gatekeeping in the heat channel 😛
Sweeps are 40, no?
ebon night
more like 58 😄
mossy zinc
Sweeps?
ember bronze
Hades's sweep attack
ebon night
his spin attack
mossy zinc
Hades Aspect? I don't play that one lol. I guess if it's not too different from Guan Yu.
ripe crane
The final boss of the game
ember bronze
Hades the boss attack (see person asking about Acorn above)
ember bronze
He said no HL!
twilit orbit
does HL affect urn damage?
sly remnant
no its a trap
ember bronze
Forgot--guessing no since HS does
Anyway, I think the channel should be great for anyone trying to get to 32
I know there's a lot of flexibility/subjectivity, but there are a lot of points I'd be pretty comfortable giving as advice
mossy zinc
Sometimes people get a little bit lost and ask for help with 4 Heat.
ember bronze
No gatekeeping in the heat channel 🙂
twilit orbit
tbh there are a lot of easy ways to add heat in the beginning
ember bronze
I think, after doing a bunch of 32s, I'm pretty comfortable saying FO0 is the easiest way
sly remnant
it is
twilit orbit
playing on like 10 heat is basically just the same game as playing on 0 heat
sly remnant
while i agree
twilit orbit
but each subsequent heat level you add on gets harder and harder
sly remnant
thats a subjective opinion
also it depends on modifiers. Me practicing on FO2 EM4 HL5
ripe crane
I have a friend who has been streaming this game basically every day since 1.0 came out. Today was his first escape. High heat is very subjective :p
ebon night
what's the hardest low heat?
twilit orbit
oh I just mean that if you do the easiest 10 heat then its basically the same as playing on 0 heat
ember bronze
Not if you just started
ebon night
god, I keep saying twitch emotes, kill me
twilit orbit
like taking EM3 TD2 is basically the same run as just running 0 heat
ebon night
TD?
twilit orbit
I dont think EM actually makes the bosses harder personally (besides EM4 obviously)
trim sigil
RI4 beats FO2 ngl
ember bronze
oh yeah
twilit orbit
TD is tight deadline
mossy zinc
EM3 is definitely harder than no EM lol. And a lot of people struggle with TD2.
ebon night
I'm slow 😄
ember bronze
EM3 is a big bump to the fight
trim sigil
TD3 alone is almost no threat. I do farming experimental runs and they fit in 20 minutes
ember bronze
TD2 is only easy after you've gotten used to playing fast
mossy zinc
For me it makes no real difference if I'm playing at 20 Heat or 0 Heat, but for most people, there's a very big difference.
ripe crane
Heightened security seems like the highest pain:heat ratio for an average player.
twilit orbit
I think TD2 is bad if you buff enemies, but with regular enemies I think TD2 is reasonably easy to do
heightened security is a trap for new players
ebon night
I use the one that adds more foes and EM
sly remnant
it also depends how much you feel like optimizing
twilit orbit
like you have to be super good at avoiding traps to take it
trim sigil
Oh yeah HS definitely takes the "biggest ass" single heat reward
twilit orbit
the 1 heat is not worth getting hit for 100+ damage randomly in styx
ember bronze
I don't use HS, heh
it should probably be 2
losing runs to an axe isn't worth the stress
twilit orbit
unless you're a god gamer and are super used to all the traps
mossy zinc
How did we end up talking about low heat in high heat strategies.
bronze viper
Lol I think talk about pacts in general is perfectly fine here tbf
trim sigil
By taking 1 pact option at a time
bronze viper
I much prefer this conversation to the general "what is easiest weapon at 32"
ember bronze
I used to think EM4 was too hard to be an effective 32 plan, but have come around
trim sigil
The real question would be, which option will remain the last on the road to 64, RI4 or PL 
ripe crane
Well, talking about the worst pacts at low heat could also be "avoid these at high heat"
ember bronze
FO0 EM4 is a fine way of getting Heat, just makes TD3 a little harder
twilit orbit
i feel like EM4 is not really bad without FO
when I did it I didnt think that hades was too hard to dodge
but I heard that his double spin is really hard to avoid with FO turned on
honest kernel
the worst packs at any heat are always RI
bronze viper
The valuations change. It would be hard to convince a new player that CP1/2 is the absolute last pact a large number of builds will ever take at high heat.
ripe crane
True
ebon night
RI?
sly remnant
RI1 is very manageable
honest kernel
the one that nukes all mirror talents
ebon night
thought so 😄
sly remnant
@ebon night there's a pinned message that will tell you the abbreviations for everything
ember bronze
I think if someone were asking about 32, most likely plan to get there, I would say at this point:
Avoid FO, RI, AP2, CP, JS
That only leaves a little wiggle room, that the player can fill to taste
mossy zinc
RI4 is the one true way to do 32.
bronze viper
And depending on aspect, DC
honest kernel
ember bronze
(are they comfortable with TD3, do they know EM4, etc.)
honest kernel
FO1 is super fine idk
ember bronze
It's fine, but sure is easier without it
sly remnant
if you haven't played it before its not
twilit orbit
i didnt get 32 until I turned off FO
bronze viper
I would be pretty confused if someone said they were comfortable with TD3 or EM4 but wanted help getting to 32 heat.
twilit orbit
I kept taking way too much damage with FO1 on
ebon night
You can't unequip your trinket, right?
bronze viper
Those are not easy pacts even in a vacuum lol. You have to have a great deal of game knowledge and execution to even attempt them.
sly remnant
^yep. its why i "practice" on EM4 FO2 HL5.
twilit orbit
I havent been playing this game super long but I think that I'm fine with EM4 (as long as hades has no other buffs) and TD2
sly remnant
its only 21 heat buts its plenty of practice for much higher
twilit orbit
TD3 is very hit or miss though because a fair number of my runs go over 20 min
ember bronze
I think TD3 is totally reasonable for someone to try to learn to get to 32 more easily than FO1
twilit orbit
tbh I think the biggest thing that TD forced me to do was not waste time in rooms after you clear them
honest kernel
everyone to their own
twilit orbit
also to use pause strats lol
trim sigil
Tbf if you have a set plan for a build that works, on lower heats you can definitely do sub20
ebon night
just do 64 Heat 🙂
sly remnant
yea if you are doing builds sub 20 is a joke
bronze viper
Codex pausing in Than rooms is so OP
twilit orbit
oooh whats the codex pause in than rooms?
bronze viper
By "OP" I mean it fixes a glaring issue with the timer in Than rooms lol
twilit orbit
all I know is pausing in rooms to look at doors in the pause menu
trim sigil
It gets trickier with JS CP DC combination, obviously, but initially you'd get through deadline fine ish
bright raptor
It's only like 15 seconds
bronze viper
Than will continue his animations and poof away while the Codex is up. The timer stops however in the Codex menu
bright raptor
But its good to know
bronze viper
At high heat, most runs will finish TD3 with seconds to spare, or negative seconds
twilit orbit
I would personally be happier if the timer paused outside of combat entirely
trim sigil
It's not called tight for nothing
twilit orbit
that way I wouldnt feel bad about running around a room looking for fish, for example
bright raptor
If you get a pom/boon in a thanatos room you can also wait for than to disappear in the boon selection screen
twilit orbit
but like, the timer running outside of combat doesnt really add anything meaningful imo
it just makes me pause the game a lot
the timer running in combat pushes you to try and clear rooms faster, but having it run outside of combat just makes you do weird stuff
mossy zinc
@ebon night you can swap keepsakes. You can't unequip it.
But you can use Dusa's keepsake with LC4. That's as good as having no keepsake, but you'll have moral support.
trim sigil
It's extremely good because you'd get to hear the 5 second rule replica from zag
bronze viper
Yeah I would like if the timer stopped post-combat too. I don't find it adds anything to the gameplay for me. I pause at the door anyway.
ripe crane
Eating a bunch of gyros and fries is probably not good for your health tbh
sly remnant
the problem with pausing timer completely out of combat is that IGT speedruns look veeeeeeeeeeerrry different
trim sigil
LC5: Healing effects deal 25% damage
twilit orbit
"drinks from fountain"
"dies"
trim sigil
Nourished Soul
at last...
mossy zinc
"Hello, little sprout. I have a boon for you."
sly remnant
sure but the meta of fighting to the door/chaos gate
ember bronze
IGT runs, for the most part, already take all noncombat rooms possible
so the gameplay wouldn't change much if you get the timer post-combat, the times would just read lower
if the time from shops/Chaos/running to the door didn't count
you'd lose the optimization of positioning near the door
sly remnant
right thats wthat i meant
ember bronze
yeah
sly remnant
and that is a skilltesting thing i like to see personally
ripe crane
Does anyone really even do real time runs? IGT is so detailed in this game that it feels unnecessary
ember bronze
overall IGT is a really weird amalgam of counting some things but not others
sly remnant
i think RTA is better personally
bronze viper
Yeah it's not a hill I'm going to die on either way. It doesn't break the game for me for the timer to continue (other than Than shakes fist), but I don't personally find it adds much to gameplay.
trim sigil
IGT is fairly arbitrary rn yeah
ember bronze
People do realtime too, because 1) speedrun community tends to favor that in games in general, 2) "all weapons RTA" is a popular category
bright raptor
I think a lot of top speedrunners prefer RTA
trim sigil
RTA is so the viewers don't fall asleep when streamer chooses strategically for a minute
bronze viper
IGT is for streamers who do high heat and still want to meme with chat
sly remnant
i think IGT is a great metric for meme/challenge runs
I do not think it should be the standard for the speedrun
mossy zinc
IGT is good for when I'm afk'ing halfway through the run.
sly remnant
^that too
bright raptor
Its a lower barrier to entry for new folks
tough elk
iirc it's to encourage new runners since the scene is small
bronze viper
Agreed. I don't recall another game whose speedruns were measured with IGT. That would make splits a nightmare
tough elk
easier to achieve good IGT times
sly remnant
lol yes. a lto of IGT is about making players feel good
which is an important mechanic
bronze viper
Yes. Very important. That's why you can see the crossed off options with AP2. So other players can feel good at your expense 😛
tough elk
oh yeah, i would feel a lot better about seeing just one option instead of that boon i
've been gunning for the whole run crossed out
mossy zinc
I feel like I'm one of the only people who just blends out the crossed-out options. You could show me a screenshot with two crossed-out Duo Boons, and I'll be like oh that's nice, you got Phalanx Shot.
If you don't point out the crossed-out Duo Boons to me, I'm just not seeing it lol.
ripe crane
Correct, you're supposed to obsess over the crossed out boons for the rest of the run and then blame them when you die
ember bronze
It is just a mean bit of design to show them
The worst is when you get the duo toast and then it's crossed out
but yeah, obviously doesn't matter for any logical reason
mossy zinc
lol it's like when you fold in poker, you should just forget the hand you had. You folded. It's done. There's nothing to gain from looking at what could have been.
tough elk
my mind says the same but my heart says "really wish you got that divine dash huh" as i'm getting chunked by seeker witches in asphodel
mossy zinc
Either just hit confirm or reroll. It's not like there are any other options.
ripe crane
Pause game, select Give Up, uninstall. Never get bad boon rolls again
ember bronze
Actually it does matter, right?
Because FP can't give the same set of 3
So if you see 2 you don't want, and the 1 you want crossed out
you know you're a bit less likely to get it on reroll
mossy zinc
But in practice, you're still rerolling because you want it.
tough elk
well hypothetically if it's true you can't get the same reroll then you're guaranteed to roll a different boon if you only have one option
but i think that's true for three options with AP2 as well right?
mossy zinc
You're not guaranteed to roll a different boon if you have AP2. You're guaranteed at least 1 new option out of 3.
tough elk
got it, so there would be a diff then
mossy zinc
You can roll the same boon 5 times in a row with AP2, in theory.
ember bronze
Yup. Just means that the odds are slightly better on the reroll if you didn't see your top choice crossed out
bronze viper
It's progress. I'm in the same boat. I am extremely inconsistent with getting EM4 Dad down, but it's kind of boring to grind Dad by himself so I've just been playing runs and trying to get my mechanics up
loud coral
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/759541019871019010/768598910272405544/unknown.png Here's what I'm thinking for 32 heat, would this work for Achilles spear?
Been trying to avoid EM4 for 32 heat but at this point I'll probably have to keep sticking with it
bronze viper
At the very least take TD1
loud coral
Ok, prob gonna swap that with HS then
bronze viper
What are you building with Achilles?
hollow lynx
td2 and probably fo2
bronze viper
Not many Achilles builds want DC2. DC1 is okay if you aim to go through them with the rush
loud coral
Mainly a Hunting Blades build with Achilles and Artemis' aid, the rest is up to luck
bronze viper
Oh, I guess DC2 is with that then
loud coral
Eh I mainly deal with DC2 wih Divine Dash too so it's not the worst
bronze viper
Though you'll be using your attack a lot until the build is set up because Slicing Shot is absolute trash.
loud coral
Slicing Shot's helped mainly because of the AoE, might actually ditch EM4 and just put points in JS and FO
bronze viper
(Don't get me wrong, Hunting Blades is excellent, but hoo boy do you pay for it when you don't get it)
I agree with moving the points from EM4... to anything basically
loud coral
Yeah, last time I made it to EM4 it was...not great
hollow lynx
though, a hunting blades build might be enough for em4 lol
especially if you just go td2, and try to get extra casts
loud coral
Also would you guys say Dusa is the best overall? Been thinking about using Meg over her
cerulean frigate
dusa is unreliable and gets worse the more FO ranks there are
and won't really even do as much damage as meg or than
it makes me sad because dusa is best girl
bronze viper
I really like Dusa in some encounters, and she provides a lot of utility in Elysium encounters if you have trouble there.
She's decent about EM2 as well.
Meg is way more consistent.
ripe crane
Man. Died to my own hubris. "I have over 400 hp, touch of styx regular and dark, 5+ minutes even FO2 EM4 will be no problem." Decided that was a reason to be overly aggressive 😦
true fable
why did i pick dread flight on 36 heat thinking it was fixed 🙂
hello i stand here and get smacked while my shield travels the entire underworld looking for targets
ripe crane
Petition to rename this the high-heat-mistakes channel
bronze viper
@true fable My shields are still bouncing in Meg's chamber from last week probably (I died)
hollow lynx
dread flight only good on beo and i stand by that
true fable
makes each encounter feel a bit more engaging
@bronze viper what hammers do you take on chaos now? Ive been doing empowering and explosive return obvi but just curious
bronze viper
Explosive Return, Sudden Rush, if I have extra dashes I'll take Charged Shot
Ferocious Guard is fine. Super medium but it's fine.
true fable
is the dashing flight one any good
bronze viper
I do not know what Dashing Flight does lol. Apparently I've never used it correctly, so I do not know how good it is.
bronze viper
I have yet to try it while actually using it, instead of dashing like an idiot after I release my shields hoping something happens in vain.
true fable
is that not how it works lmao
bronze viper
lmao
bronze viper
Apparently not. It's a Dash-Special, like Malphon
bronze viper
It does, but it's still horribly phrased.
true fable
i always special after a charge anyway so im not sure how useful that would be for me
hollow lynx
there's also the question of if the extra shields are affected by dashing flight at all anyways lol
true fable
whats the advantage of charged shot
just kind of always feels like a downgrade to me but people seem to like it
hollow lynx
ranged, safe, piercing 80 base damage, all behind an impenetrable defense
with minotaur rush you're basically a giant bow
true fable
good point
twilit orbit
yeah charge shot + minotaur rush is very silly
twilit orbit
your charge shots do like 500/600 damage
true fable
i must open my mind to the possibilities
twilit orbit
if you have crit then it gets more ridiculous
hollow lynx
if i actually wanted to play shield, i would have more to say about its hammers, but thankfully i don't! 👍
i forgot about ferocious guard until ledger had mentioned it earlier lol
twilit orbit
keep in mind that chiron volley only does 80 base damage after the nerf
80 damage on the shield charge shot is pretty good when you look at it that way
ripe crane
Lost to another 4sack. I started dad with just under 3 minutes left. Made it to phase 3 going as ham as possible without dying but it wasn't enough time. Is 3 minutes generally enough for EM4? I feel like people have to do it in that amount of time when they're over 40. I guess it depends heavily on the aspect and build you have
sage tendon
i know this is the high heat channel, but there is no speedrunning channel and i was wondering what the best way to get into speedrunning is? any good resources/video recommendations would be appreciated
true fable
theres a speedrunning discord
bright raptor
there should be a link to the speedrunning discord on speedruns.com
along with some guides to get started
daring hedge
Would not recommend pushing that hard for it on rama, no
Those affected by shared suffering but not hit by divine strike directly will just take the typical 60% of the attack damage
cerulean frigate
ok is it just me or does quake cutter slow down the "standing" fist special down significantly
daring hedge
There's nothing extra to it
Quake cutter requires you to stand still for a good bit after special, yeah
I'm not a big fan of it
cerulean frigate
why would you ever want it then
cerulean frigate
punishing sweep doesn't affect damage from stuff like hangover or doom does it
cerulean frigate
figured, and it just should't be a surprise my first run with the aspect i get dio attack and ares special forced on me
daring hedge
Yeah, they're not ideal but they can still work, even at high heat. Punishing Sweep boost does a lot of work on its own
cerulean frigate
it's cetainly a more relevant bonus to output than zag special anyway :P
ripe crane
I think I'm gonna have to do this thing y'all talk about with practicing FO2 EM4 from a save file. My heart can't take another phase 3 loss
limpid nymph
bro why you diss my boi like that
it's true
zag spear sucks
but I like pressing one button
no more
cerulean frigate
playing all the way through styx with a crappy guan yu build only to turn into a cast build at the end
10/10 aspect
mossy zinc
lol
cerulean frigate
missed the 3x hit dash hammer, all the special stuff
common tempest strike is my damage
or was my damage anyway, now it's mirage shot flood shot with rupture on it
not even anvil gave me anything relevant
mossy zinc
Massive Spin can still do some damage, at least.
ripe crane
Finally, 40 heat fists :D. Felt like I had no damage. Was in full tank mode. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/679466835283804306/768706498280161321/unknown.png?width=1194&height=671
So from this I learned that literally anything from Hermes makes EM4 FO2 much easier.
cerulean frigate
yeah but massive spin is very slow on guan yu, since you're forced to do a normal attack before any charged up one
ripe crane
He gave me no extra dashes, no movement speed, and it was by far harder than the previous fight I had which was just the +10% movement speed
cerulean frigate
and normal spear the stab is very quick
ripe crane
Definitely going to be more willing to spend rerolls on Hermes with melee weapons in the future.
ripe crane
Thanks 😄
May try this again with a different setup. You were absolutely right when you said Athena is the way to go, will try to start with her and shoot for ME which I think you also suggested.
uncut wigeon
With Rama, twin shot or explosive?
true fable
big brain move is going LC4 SD and getting a subpar build so meg can finally get a win
mossy zinc
4 hits is great for dealing with armor.
true fable
consensus seems to be twin shot/triple shot
mossy zinc
@cerulean frigate you'll also bypass the need for Quick Spin with Guan Yu by avoiding FO.
true fable
i think i need to just bite the bullet and go EM4 for 32+
mossy zinc
Really? I haven't done EM4 once at 32+.
cerulean frigate
i think lightning reflexes might be one of my favorite boons mechanically/flavor wise. plus it's part of an already strong kit of boons in general
ripe crane
Really, no EM4? I felt like I had to take it just to get to 40... Here is what I used with Demeter fists. Would RI/HL likely have been easier?
Actually with zeus fists I probably could've turned JS up
ripe crane
hm. Maybe I try to get to 42 soon with some mix of hl/ri/ap
mossy zinc
I'd take AP over RI or HL on Malphon.
ripe crane
I'm definitely scared of HL
cerulean frigate
Eris: HL5 is free heat
Sword:
wanton plover
:(
tidal flame
Hard Labor 5 basically reduces your HP to half. It makes every weapon the GY experience, and GY doubly so.
cerulean frigate
i've had smoldering air blocked by AP three times in a row
tidal flame
Something just isn't meant to be.
wanton plover
for 46 heat would u guys prefer pos sword or arthur sword
urban grail
Spam special?
mossy zinc
Spam special with what? I'm not following lol.
ember bronze
How does Chaos Shield do damage?
my old Zeus Special setups just seem to fall off miserably
in terms of damage
mossy zinc
Static Discharge.
urban grail
Excalibur I presume?
ember bronze
Hmm--had it just now, but weak, and no Cold Fusion
urban grail
Since nyan said > I would prefer the no-sword sword.
mossy zinc
Yeah, as in use a different weapon lol.
urban grail
Oh lmao
ember bronze
Too lazy to link SS but
imagine Act1 Underworld Customs screen
with Curse of Agony, Divine Flourish, Merciful End
static plover
what weapon/aspect?
static plover
yeah, that's not bad tbh, having all the pieces excluding dash
and it opens up your special slot for something better
ember bronze
I picked Last Stand over Dash during A1, might have been wrong
Just have to get it early in A2
static plover
with athena in the boon pool you'll possibly pick it up later anyways
static plover
Pog
true fable
niceu
ember bronze
quite
true fable
does merciful end
just do nothing
if you have to sell flourish
until you get dash
ember bronze
ya
static plover
yeah, not having flourish isn't really a bad thing once you have ME anyways
ember bronze
Well A2 customs will be sad
my boons are literally
Curse of Agony, Divine Dash, Merciful End, Dire Misfortune, Impending Doom, Swift Strike, Last Stand
like the absolute perfect setup
static plover
Area 2
true fable
ah that makes sense
trim sigil
Swift strike is easy go tbh
true fable
true
ember bronze
just not useful when you're mostly dashstriking?
static plover
yeah swift strike is nice to have, not a need to have
true fable
cant sell last stand can you?
ember bronze
(no)
wanton plover
no
trim sigil
Dire misfortune sort of sad but you activate ME 90% of the time immediately so it's fine too