Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish + Heart Rend does a lot more DPS than Deadly Strike + Heartbreak Flourish + Heart.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
bronze viper
Hunter's Mark makes it very easy to just have the debuff on everything on the screen at the same time
You can kind of do this with normal aspects but it's a lot less consistent. It's virtually guaranteed on Chiron
mossy zinc
But Heartbreak Flourish has the potential for Unhealthy Fixation.
flat bear
But the moment you tag them with your attack, doesn't that remove hunter's mark, making oyu uanble to benefit from it's crit chance once you special?
bronze viper
It's not a consumable debuff
flat bear
It lasts until you change targets?
Does it expire on the first arrow of the special that crits, or does it expire once the whole special has hit?
bronze viper
It will expire on the next crit arrow, so ideally it will make your next attack crit on the target once you switch
The Volley will then spread Hunter's Mark to everything else.
flat bear
That feels underwhelming if it only gives a +% crit chance to a single arrow from your volley
bronze viper
You want to consume the debuff with a Power SHot
which hammer should I pick for Rama?
@vapid folio Twin Shot is ideal, but most of the attack hammers except for Sniper and Repulse are good
flat bear
Oh, I understand. I don't feel like my attack does that much damage whenever I play Chiron though
bronze viper
Relentless Volley is great if you already have Drunken Flourish
flat bear
I've played a lot of Chiron, have alternated between Heartbreak and Deadly Flourish and I just don't see Deadly as doing so much more damage. It feels to me that Deadly NEEDS to be epic, and you need a special % from Chaos for it to really shine compared to Heartbreak
bronze viper
Oh, I understand. I don't feel like my attack does that much damage whenever I play Chiron though
@flat bear I find that I mix damage pretty readily if I don't have Rare+ Swift Flourish.
hollow lynx
put an asterisk on that repulse pls
flat bear
Maybe I've simply gotten unlucky with my Deadly Strike builds
bronze viper
@hollow lynx Make me 
hollow lynx
🔫
bronze viper
Maybe I've simply gotten unlucky with my Deadly Strike builds
@flat bear No, you're right, the damage is quite similar to Heartbreak, the main advantage of Deadly is Heart Rend
flat bear
I had Deadly Strike Epic level 7, Heart Rend, Urge to Kill level 2 and common Swift Flourish, with a 70% Special damage from Chaos and it didn't feel like a crazy run
Just now
bronze viper
I wouldn't so much call it "utility" as "lots of extra damage" but yeah lol.
flat bear
With Relentless Volley too
bronze viper
Keep in mind too that Relentless Volley got nerfed a LOT in the last patch
flat bear
Oh I had Clean Kill too
bronze viper
At least relative to what it was at he start of 1.0
flat bear
It didn't get directly nerfed, right?
bronze viper
Right, but it got 2 indirect nerfs, with more base arrows and 33% less damage per arrow
dry flame
34 heat with rama
bronze viper
Niicce!
dry flame
wasnt as fun as chiron runs but i saw some cray numbers
not sure what the highest was but i saw 4.2 a couple times
wraith imp
i forgot to check with skelly
i'll have to try it out just to make sure after i finish this run.
OK...so here's another question: does cyclops jerky affect dash attack?
it says it buffs attack but given that there's nothing that can be bought at charon's shops to buff that...
...( @hollow lynx i'm using your "no dash-attack specific hammer boons" logic here for charon mini-shops)
hollow lynx
look, the only differentiation i've seen between dash attack and attack is in hammers
otherwise, treat dash attack as a subset of attacks (like squares being rectangles but not all rectangles are squares)
ripe crane
f
hollow lynx
me when i play bow
wraith imp
lol, i sense some frustration with how many silly/minute/detail-oriented questions i'm asking...
but i appreciate the replies/help nonetheless
ripe crane
Trying beo for my 32 shield. I got a hammer with Charged Flight as my first item. I'm supposed to do something with this, right?
wanton plover
yes
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish.
Divine Flourish can be good, too, but you'll be missing out on damage.
ripe crane
So I'm just primarily using the special instead of the cast?
mossy zinc
Hmmm. Dragon Rush AOE can clear crowds faster, but yeah, for the most part.
ripe crane
Wack. I kinda hate how slow this charges up. But I'll give it a try.
mossy zinc
You don't need to fully charge it.
You can just release it immediately. The normal drawback of Beowulf's Special is that it has way slower startup than the shield throw of the other aspects.
Charged Flight makes that startup the same as any other shield throw if you just quick release.
As in, just tap the button.
ripe crane
Oh neat. So just tap it then.
mossy zinc
When you need mobility, yeah.
You'll want to pick up passives from Lord Ares or Poseidon or both.
ripe crane
I will try this out tomorrow then. Ty 😄
wraith imp
So...playing with rama has only further confused me about the attack/dash-attack dynamic of the game.
i took maxed out shattered shackle purely for dash attack increase (since tier 3 max shackle gives 80% to artemis' 75% epic dash-attack). then in asphodel i took a poseidon boon (59%) for attack.
but now my dash-attacks have wavy stuff. so are my dash attacks benefitting from shattered shackle (which only gives buff when powered by a boon) or from poseidon attack?
/i don't get it.
//my head hurts
mossy zinc
Shattered Shackle is pretty straightforward. 
bronze viper
Your attack is now Tempest Strike, which makes it look like a wave
It is no longer affected by Shackle
mossy zinc
Yeah.
hollow lynx
^
bronze viper
Lol, one day this will click for you and you will look back fondly on this Mental Brick Wall(tm) your mind has constructed around this concept 😛
hollow lynx
i think the issue is that you started taking in information about attack/dash attack from the most confusing starting place possible, being bow hammers lol
bronze viper
Bow dash attacks are the least complicated of all of them. There is no Bow attack lol. There is only the dash attack
hollow lynx
hammer interactions are the exception, not the rule
wraith imp
This stuff is freaking stupid
hollow lynx
the rule is dash strikes are considered attacks, they're just special
wraith imp
Like...so if i had artemis dash attack, then and only then my dash attack would remain unaffected by an attack boon?
wtf?
hollow lynx
so this goes for boons, keepsakes, items, etc
bronze viper
That is correct
It is affected by a dash boon
So your attack would benefit from both Shackle and Hunter Dash
wraith imp
Game never makes clear how the attack/dash-attack dynamic works.
hollow lynx
there's no boon in the attack slot, thus shackle is still in effect
wraith imp
there's no boon in the attack slot, thus shackle is still in effect
@hollow lynx
But there's no boon in the dash slot either.
bronze viper
wat
wraith imp
so why does attack affect dash-attack
hollow lynx
hunter dash, no?
hollow lynx
bronze viper
Like...so if i had artemis dash attack, then and only then my dash attack would remain unaffected by an attack boon?
@wraith imp
mossy zinc
i think the issue is that you started taking in information about attack/dash attack from the most confusing starting place possible, being bow hammers lol
I think the issue is that the game is just awfully inconsistent about it lol. I had more hours in Malphon than anyone except maybe Resqtoaster and the WR at the time and didn't know that "Dash-Strike" boons buffed Dash-Uppers.
wraith imp
ARGGHGHGHGHGHGGHGHGHGHGHGGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGGHGHGGHGHGHG
mossy zinc
Not until Krashercorr told me.
bronze viper
LMAO
hollow lynx
hammers are the only inconsistency in dash strike terminology, and i hate it lol
bronze viper
They've cracked
wraith imp
i think i'm just gonna complete this run and log off for the day
bronze viper
Sleep on it. Squares are rectangles
hollow lynx
did you know rush kick affects both special and dash upper? when literally every other special hammer for fists differentiates between special and dash upper?
tidal flame
What
wraith imp
I think the issue is that the game is just awfully inconsistent about it lol. I had more hours in Malphon than anyone except maybe Resqtoaster and the WR at the time and didn't know that "Dash-Strike" boons buffed Dash-Uppers.
@mossy zinc
Probably
bronze viper
I think Bow does the best job of keeping it pure
tidal flame
These inconsistencies are too much man
wraith imp
did you know rush kick affects both special and dash upper? when literally every other special hammer for fists differentiates between special and dash upper?
@hollow lynx
lolwat
bronze viper
Sword, Fist and Rail are travesties
tidal flame
Do you think it's possible to refund the game now?
hollow lynx
and then bow and rail don't have dash strike hammers, all of their attack hammers affect dash strikes
mossy zinc
I did know that, yes. But now get both Rush Kick and Explosive Upper.
bronze viper
I still have no idea what Hunter Dash does on Rail
tidal flame
I still have no idea what Hunter Dash does on Rail
Same tbh
wraith imp
I still have no idea what Hunter Dash does on Rail
@bronze viper
neither do i
hollow lynx
but then sword differentiates between dash attacks and attacks! when it really shouldn't! like with cursed slash and shadow slash!
bronze viper
Breaching Slash is only attacks too pretty sure
Though you can dash while Flurry Slashing, and I don't know what that counts as
mossy zinc
Those hammer upgrades are trying to bait you into using the normal Attack.
Don't fall for it!
wraith imp
but then sword differentiates between dash attacks and attacks! when it really shouldn't! like with cursed slash and shadow slash!
@hollow lynx
yep, i have questions about curshed and shadow slash w/r/t to dash-attack
hollow lynx
we need new terminology: "Your Attack (but not your dash strike)"
this alone would solve so many clarity issues
and then, just add or remove parts of the terminology as needed
tidal flame
Introduce new key words
wraith imp
yep
tidal flame
Add a layer of strategy via turn based boon picking
hollow lynx
if you see Attack without the "(but not your dash strike)", then you know oh, this affects both
tidal flame
Add multiplayer mode
hollow lynx
maybe rush kick could have "Your Special and Dash Upper"
hollow lynx
p.s. amir if you see this i love you
bronze viper
mossy zinc
maybe rush kick could have "Your Special and Dash Upper"
But then you take Explosive Upper, too. Now what.
hollow lynx
it only has to specify "Dash Upper"
hollow lynx
and now you have two things that explicitly include "Dash Upper", and all is right in the world of player clarity and understanding
what happens when i dash upper? well, I know i'm gonna kick! and oh look, i also know i'm gonna explode too
mossy zinc
I'm very sure Explosive Upper just overrides the kick and makes the Dash-Special an Upper again lol.
I still have no idea what Hunter Dash does on Rail
It adds +X% to your one bullet that you shoot when Dash-Striking lol.
bronze viper
My intuition told me that but I didn't want to believe that it could be that bad.
Does it at least work on Hestia?
static plover
so outside of giving you easy access to support fire it ain't that good (excluding Hestia)
hollow lynx
I'm very sure Explosive Upper just overrides the kick and makes the Dash-Special an Upper again lol.
mossy zinc
Yes, it works on Hestia.
hollow lynx
static plover
ooh that's cool
bronze viper
I never trust Hestia's mechanics lol. Hammers have a bad habit of just not doing anything on that aspect.
hollow lynx
did someone say hammers
wraith imp
https://imgflip.com/i/4iwsoy
@bronze viper
yes, basically
bronze viper
Lol, Sword has the dumbest dash strike inconsistencies
Like if you use Dash to carry over your Strike + Strike + Strike combo, it is not a dash strike
Even though you are literally cancelling a Dash into a Strike
wraith imp
REPLUSE SHOT IS AWESOME. OOOWEEEEEE!!!!
Finally, something to deal with those annoying great shields in elysium
hollow lynx
okay but i like dash-carrying tbh
i prefer how "dash strike" is both its own keyword and its own distinct Attacking Ability
so you can't do things like hunter dash on a spin dash
mossy zinc
Bastion: The Hades Sequel, the "Kid"/Zagreus has had enough of confusing hammer upgrades and just picks up the hammer as a weapon instead. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/7d/67/a67d67b868ccd5b5ef1dc9bce2c9e09c.gif
wraith imp
rama with triple shot is baller against hades...oh my.
hollow lynx
now add in point-blank and ur gucci
bronze viper
Or Repulse Shot
hollow lynx
now you're doing it too!
wraith imp
did some great work
tidal flame
Repulse Shot is an awesome meme hammer.
mossy zinc
Sniper Shot + Repulse Shot is the way to go.
hollow lynx
see, ledger? this is what i mean
mossy zinc
Sniper Shot is second best hammer.
bronze viper
Someone confirmed Charged Volley is still in the pool for Rama 1.0 right?
I still haven't seen it
But that's my vote
hollow lynx
i'm pretty sure it's not lol
bronze viper
Omg the secret biggest buff of 1.0
Praise SGG
I like that Repulse Shot kind of has to exist to make sure that all of Rama's hammer offerings aren't 3x Gas
limber wren
what is the highest heat done so far?
bronze viper
54 seeded, 54 unseeded, 57 routed
mossy zinc
54 in 1.0.
hollow lynx
repulse is the exclusive hammer they were forced to make after they gave the rest of the 4ths exclusive hammers
bronze viper
Doesn't Lucifer have 5?
bronze viper
Nope, 5 lmao. And 2.5 of them are poopoo
Concentrated, Flash Fire, Triple, Eternal Chamber, Greater Memeferno
hollow lynx
forgot about triple
oh, reminds me
lucy has hazard bomb but it's a different hazard bomb, cause the bonus is cut in half from regular hazard bomb
so it's really 6 unique hammers
wraith imp
given the shenanigans associated with the attack/dash-attack/hammer dynamic...
I wonder if shattered shackle stops working if chaos dash boon is taken. i would guess yes, it stops working.
shattered shackle caption reads "not empowered by a boon." there's no distinction made between olympic and chthonic boons.
bronze viper
Wow lol. You are only like level 100 omega overthinking this
hollow lynx
shackle only deactivates if there's a core boon in the slot associated with it
as in, those 5 slots to the left
mossy zinc
They're all to the left.
wraith imp
Wow lol. You are only like level 100 omega overthinking this
@bronze viper
I am that weirdo.
mossy zinc
All the boon slots. That's where the boon list is.
maiden geode
bronze viper
Shattered Shackle is a boolean flag. Your attack is an attack, and is 1-to-1 mapped to the first diamond slot on the left. If that space is blank, you get the bonus. Else you don't.
wraith imp
hmmm...
sounds like a great way to combine shattered shackle with chaos lunge
that's a pretty sizable damage increase
but of course that's probably a tartarus strategy
tidal flame
Prinny is also a fun hard game
mossy zinc
Or you could take Sigil of the Dad and get +100% damage lol.
bronze viper
Shackle isn't bad with AP2
tidal flame
It is though
wraith imp
Or you could take Sigil of the Dad and get +100% damage lol.
@mossy zinc
yeah, i actually haven't tried that out...at all.
tidal flame
You can't unpick with AP2
hollow lynx
y'all pronounce it as "sijil" or "siggle"
wraith imp
former
bronze viper
But you can unpick the Shackle lol
tidal flame
Si jil
tidal flame
Don't be a Matt Mercer
wanton plover
sih jill
wraith imp
/internet is never wrong, right? Right? RIGHT?
wanton plover
:(
bronze viper
I've also heard "See Jill"
hollow lynx
sijil, sorry mercer lol
ruby cipher
rama with triple shot is baller against hades...oh my.
rama with triple shot is the only time I beat EM4 FO1
bold estuary
Hey guys, if i have "Deadly Strike" (+15% crit chance) for my attack and i get the boon "Pressure Points" which adds (+2% crit chance) for all of my damage abilities, does it add me the +2% crit chance on my "Deadly Strike" too ? so overall +17% crit chance for my attack.
bold estuary
oh ok nice, thanks !
fickle mountain
which bow is best with Attack based upgrades
i spam chiron a lot so idk what to pick
like what's rama's interaction with the 2 shots side by side
hollow lynx
you get two waves side by side
zag likes attack builds, but rama is basically a super zag bow (and a good chiron-like, all wrapped up in one)
bold estuary
is the "Aspect of Beowulf" competitive for shields of chaos ?
trim sigil
Anything that isn't zagreus blade is competitive
bold estuary
oh really
trim sigil
Attack speed does nothing, because you can't utilize the moveset
So does movement speed
Out of other sword aspects that comparatively achieve 1.5x the damage, zagreus blade is really sad
Arthur is extremely good, albeit not without glaring weaknesses of slow attacks and whatnot
bold estuary
oh i see
wintry sluice
What are some good nemesis builds? Definitely have struggled with that one as I've climbed in heat
wanton plover
aph attack and either art or athena dash and pray very hard for double edge hammer
wintry sluice
It sounds like I'm not dash striking enough
wanton plover
the combo is special then dash attack twice and repeat
in pinned it shows some videos that show it pretty well
wintry sluice
Ok ill take a look, ty
wanton plover
nemesis is my favorite aspect widepeepohappy
random bough
thought artemis attack and aphro special + heart rend was more common
wanton plover
if a weapon already has crit, get more damage on it not crit
trim sigil
^
dry flame
clean kill hunters mark are the arty boons i would go for with nemesis
cinder cave
Ideally you'd get both more damage and more crit, but if you had to choose one, higher base damage is better
pressure points and hunter's mark are cool to combo with nemesis clean kill
but i guess high heat
dry flame
^
dry flame
gotta luck out with the keepsakes
cinder cave
keepsakes are a godsend
mossy zinc
lol the most common pick for Nemesis at high heat is just Deflect on everything.
mossy zinc
Owl Pendant > Arrowhead > Acorn > Acorn
mossy zinc
I like Urge to Kill and Clean Kill.
trim sigil
Well, that's not to say I don't like either
Just that it can be worth to substitute them for smth else
sometimes. other times you just want all the dmg in the world
cinder cave
isn't that true of a lot of situational or combinatorial boons?
if it's not just like s tier best in slot
dry flame
if ur not going ME i like urge to kill
that and battle rage make clearing rooms really fun
trim sigil
Me: battle rage has insane potential
Also me: always does one more attack in void after killing an enemy
cinder cave
:)
Feel like battle rage is just far more usable with large AOE control movesets
dry flame
hoping for arty special tho thats all the amtters
cinder cave
arty dream
white inlet
How to build guan yu? I know charged skewer is good but boon wise no idea
wanton plover
aph or art special
white inlet
Ty!!! @mossy zinc
dry flame
nice time! @mossy zinc
mossy zinc
Thanks. 
I was going for sub 10, but I got a 3-sack. 
The go-to combo is Special > Dash-Strike > Dash-Strike.
I only really care for Charged Skewer, Serrated Point, and Breaching Skewer. Though, Charged Skewer and Serrated Point are better.
If you're stuck with other choices, Massive Spin is alright.
You can see me do that a lot here. https://youtu.be/TbhsvUJtNZ0?t=82
Always go for Lord Ares and Poseidon boons for Battle Rage, Urge to Kill, Hydraulic Might, or Tidal Dash. They're great.
mossy zinc
Ain't nobody else who plays Guan Yu who I could link to lol.
lost otter
Its fun. im artrur and claws mainer.And hate Rail.but ppl think i play alote in luci or bows 
mossy zinc
Well, I don't know if you play Lucifer much, but you have interesting ideas for it.
Everybody else just says "Lightning Strike" lol.
No meta progress if everyone plays the same and never really tries anything.
lost otter
yesteday ellomenop (speedrunner)try dio crit eris on stream. almost dont have any from build but do faster 1,2,3 zone,then usual zeus attack
it was fun
cinder cave
Definitely agree with your sentiment on meta progression
It’s too easy to think the game is solved or whatever
Still need more titan blood tho xd
trim sigil
Pretty hard to experiment with what is pretty much +100% damage attack with aoe in common version
zeus on lucifer that is
(or any other rail)
lost otter
zeus on lucifer that is
@trim sigil
Everybody else just says "Lightning Strike" lol.
@mossy zinc
🤣
trim sigil
I had tried arctic blast in fact. But that's 2 boons instead of 1, and it's from the goddess that drives some players here mad
lost otter
you dont try.you just take some thing and dont play around idea. luci can easy do 6k damage from 20 ammo
lost otter
its cheats.100%. 30 passive boon.
trim sigil
you dont try.you just take some thing and dont play around idea.
not sure how to understand that, ngl
lost otter
@trim sigil
What idea of zeus attack? just push one button to win?
When you take demeter. did you use some this to hit more targets at once?AoE attack,pirsing,ricoshet to arctic blast deal more job? Or more attack speed to more sinle target dps.becaus Demeter its not truly single target choose. and how about other build. WHY you take demeter attack?for what?
dry flame
its cheats.100%. 30 passive boon.
@lost otter mods sir but yes
unreal pasture
@mossy zinc Do you not feel like FO1/2 make speedruns faster?
I thought that was usually the norm... since it makes thinks clump on you faster
bronze viper
They also affect spawn time.
Obv FO2 comes with the downside of dying more easily though
unreal pasture
Mmm, wasn't aware that it sped up the spawns
Yea... less consistent runs because things can dunk on you
bronze viper
Or things stun locking you out of your animations
unreal pasture
But it's fast and fun
lul... yea. I expect that from someone with Rama in your name
It's annoying when slam dancer locks your X/attack on rama bow
bronze viper
I think Numbskulls are probably the most aggravating for stuns. Shifter Speeder triggered
lost otter
It's annoying when slam dancer locks your X/attack on rama bow
@unreal pasture game have solution for this. poseidon +athena duo) you can try
trim sigil
Gosh, now I feel like on exam
Zeus is indeed shoot to win. Demeter is more tricky since involving several targets in arctic blast can make a huge work off the aoe or even cause chain reactions. The main intent however was to expand the demeter's low single target damage by arctic blast simulating 80-100% dmg increase, along with slowdown of targets
unreal pasture
I don't think I've managed to get the Athena/Pos duo ... in like 105ish runs... mainly because I kind of have compulsive builds
bronze viper
Big brain gameplay is pretty counter to going fast though. There's a lot of value for simple execution.
unreal pasture
Yea... I see it now... Immune to stun + resist boss damage
Seems... suboptimal boon usage
I'm kind of in the "Just play better camp"
Which entails dying over and over and over until you do it right
bronze viper
You don't really take it over something you need but it's way better than random stuff like Brilliant Riposte or most of Poseidon's stuff
Same idea as Lightning Rod for Eris builds. Not build defining, but it's a lot of value for "free" once your build is assembled.
lost otter
@trim sigil that what i talkin about. you talk about only attack. i dont see build. you say only about attack. speed runers take zeus becaus its good on begining. and after they 100% try find poseidon dash. and becaus they have zeus sea storm coming. after they add slam boon for fast room cleaning. and becaus its eris all damage have +75% thats how its works.
trim sigil
Guess we are on different topics then. Oh well
lost otter
Brilliant Riposte or most of Poseidon's stuff
@bronze viper its have huge damage) even briliant ripost if you can deflect. 200-1000 additional damage from deflect not a joke btw.
mossy zinc
@unreal pasture it's way easier to keep up High Confidence on Guan Yu with FO0.
trim sigil
Welp, game just crashed after holding shield for 63 minutes
Probably still enough data on dodges though 
unreal pasture
mmk, so it's a matter of consistency
mossy zinc
It's a matter of that's what I felt like lol. I'm not too focused on speedruns. It's just good practice and research for high heat.
I might try with FO1 or FO2 some other time.
lost otter
What cast have better scaling from poms?athena or aphro?
mossy zinc
There's nobody else doing speedruns with Guan Yu. And I've only done maybe 5 real attempts.
@lost otter I'm very sure it's Phalanx Shot.
cinder cave
@mossy zinc do you ever talk during your runs, explain your decision making?
mossy zinc
Nope.
cinder cave
I think that would make your content way more attractive
lost otter
@mossy zinc ty
cinder cave
I can understand if you cba
mossy zinc
I'm not recording for popularity.
cinder cave
fair enough
I always had people ask me to explain more and play slower whenever I've streamed, but I understand your motivations may be different
lost otter
@cinder cave if wana info find Wriste 13 on twitch. he overexplain runs,managment of money,gods manipulations,how use summons and alote more.
mossy zinc
My Beowulf times are terrible lol.
lost otter
But its need find moment when he do this on Vods or when some one Buy Overexplain run for twitch time coins.
My Beowulf times are terrible lol.
@mossy zinc same)
cinder cave
Thanks Oversky
I basically just saw Jorbs play it
well my gf did
cuz we follow him for sts
lost otter
@mossy zinc im start try do beo attack athena cast athena. and try add artemis and aphro. for duos. with beo attack you all time block(deflect) its means 20% crit chance for cast.also how you say athena cast better scaling. and i wana aphro athena duo/becaus almost 80% of times cast deal damage from behind when you play beo. i think its can be very powerfull combo for High heat.
Bebcaus deflect from attack also decrease DC
visual skiff
Whats the recommended starting keepsake for high heat (32) runs for charon bow
bronze viper
@bronze viper its have huge damage) even briliant ripost if you can deflect. 200-1000 additional damage from deflect not a joke btw.
@lost otter As we've discussed before I will typically value things in high heat runs with high consistent value versus things that are hugely conditional or very synergistic assuming other boons. E.g. Most of the time I am not looking to deflect offensively, but if the damage happens, then great. I would still prefer stun immunity to make sure my main gameplan will always work.
This was different in Blood Price, where offensive deflects were a lot more valuable on average (especially against dad, where it did a huge burst and killed the skull outright).
lost otter
im dont play in BPupdate. im just try say nothing bad if rama have athena attack and deflect all what fly to it. and not so bad to have poseidons pecial with slam boons or Razor Shoals. and time to time on my feeling. hwn im only start even on artur.briliant ripost do alote more damage than attack.
its not uselles.
bronze viper
I take Brilliant Riposte all the time, I think it's good, but the question was about Unshakable Mettle. There is literally no build at high heat I would ever take Riposte over Mettle.
lost otter
ppl hate poseidon.becaus dont know how its work well.Mb you just dont play poseidonw with out zeus. or dont try do poseidon as main sourse of damage.
i like Unshakable Mettle. no stun lock.
and its increase DPS. becaus attack unbreakeble .
cinder cave
^
I think people easily underestimate poseidon
because they try it on their strike and special and just think eh whatever
trim sigil
Flood shot is definitely more favorable of his t1 boons, along with tidal dash (as long as divine/hunter dash doesn't steal a spot)
mossy zinc
@lost otter okay, this one worked really well. Much better time now. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/767421478505021440/Hades_1020.png?width=834&height=469
lost otter
im use dio cast befor. with demeter ,poseidon,zeus,,artemis gods and their duos.
im just wana some thing new)
mossy zinc
I wanted to do a Trippy Flare build, but the first half of the run was just Tempest Flourish because I got Charged Flight chamber 1.
trim sigil
Seems like the past glory can't release you that easily, heh
mossy zinc
I just wanted all weapons sub 15, but I accidentally got sub 12; so now, I guess, I have to get all weapons sub 12 lol.
lost otter
Do it! @mossy zinc just do it! 
mossy zinc
13:14.78.
Chiron. Next time!
I messed up my summon vs Power Couple and vs Soulcatcher miniboss lol.
lost otter
Need your aspect. your build. and your current pack to see what you try do
sly field
ok]
let me get that
aspect is currently between the bow and the gun allot
eris for gun and chiron/rama for bow
i tried deactivating my mirror but having 1 dash is the worst / atleast for me
but let me get some screencaps
lost otter
then best adwise can give @bronze viper @daring hedge @mossy zinc becaus im melee weapons.and this ppl REALY god and bows and guns.
sly field
yeah i heard avout tailesque before
i dont really like the closeness with melee
except maybe shield
mossy zinc
There's a pinned spreadsheet with all the 40+ clears with video links. You can study the 50+ ones there.
sly field
allright thanks
lost otter
@sly field Don't get it wrong, it's just that we're from different time zones and different countries. We all have our own opinions and tricks. For example, I am from Russia. It's very hard for me to explain something. and my current time is 9pm. Try to meet and talk with these people. And read the chat. There are a lot of dialogues with heated debates about the preferences of the mirror and heat. And not only here. A lot of interesting things can be found in the Builds channel.
mossy zinc
If you want to get on that "leaderboard" (it's not officially a leaderboard), you'll need a recording. If the recording doesn't show the previous death/victory, it will be considered "seeded". Need the death as evidence the seed was random.
lost otter
My preft dont take TD and dont touch mirror at all. and my runs includs HL5 EM4 FO2 CP2 DC2. and im play around build composition.around alote of boons and gold.
sly field
ahh so you can still use your gold that makes sense
lost otter
But for this way need synegy complex build.and chaos\poseidon boon for gold.
sly field
If you want to get on that "leaderboard" (it's not officially a leaderboard), you'll need a recording. If the recording doesn't show the previous death/victory, it will be considered "seeded". Need the death as evidence the seed was random.
@mossy zinc i stream so i have it on a vod does that count?
mossy zinc
Yeah, that should count.
sly field
nice
i try to do it on "live" so they know im legit
so far my farthest has been to hades with eris on 51 heat and to elyisum with bow on 51 heeat
mossy zinc
Sounds like you know what you're doing, then.
sly field
@mossy zinc i like to think so... altho more info couldn't hurt right and i talked to a few people that said i should check out these discords
lost otter
@sly field try my way. try find early gold chaos \poseidon to use gold. and abouts what mean complex build i trown examples from my experiment runs in new save file. im little busy now.
sly field
thats okay thanks for sharing @lost otter
mossy zinc
4-sack + Tiny Vermin.
lost otter
Horrible....
tidal flame
I wish everyone gets 5sack all the time
You pay for the full Styx, play the full Styx
Smh
lost otter
🤣 👍
mossy zinc
Sword done. Only Bow and Rail left. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/767458198067478548/Hades_1027.png?width=834&height=469
wintry sluice
Goal is sub 12 min clear?
mossy zinc
Yup.
wintry sluice
Nice
lost otter
you still writing some thing @mossy zinc 🙂
mossy zinc
@sly field my only experience 50+ is with Beowulf pre-1.0. Tailesque and ledgerdamayn are the top bow players. I don't really have the time to practice enough for 50+ anymore because of school.
What I did for 52 Beowulf was make practice saves for all the boss fights, so that I could grind them out. Did that for a few hours daily for about week (especially EM3 and Hades), then did 52 first try.
Then when I was practicing 56, I backed up the temp saves of any chambers I died in or that were especially difficult and practiced them.
There's not really a lot of choice at 50+ in terms of pacts, so pick your poison.
ripe crane
Do people here really not like chill? I feel like that made EM4 soooo much easier
I guess I'm at 32 and it doesn't provide quite enough damage when you're higher than that?
lost otter
I like EM4. but its MY pref.
try create a complex build with Duos in core and main idea
lost otter
or more skill in hands and build with out
i like demeter chill alote.and im all time say its more impacfull tham ppl thinking about it
demeter chill decrease EM4 incoming damage HUGE
waxen relic
Nourishing Soul does nothing and can't be selled; Beam is wack, therefore Demeter's kinda bad
lost otter
And demeter can turn FO2 in ZERO in EM4 figth
becaus FO2 +40% speed and demeter -40% speed. if add another boon total speed be -20%
ripe crane
Hey Oversky, sword is my final weapon to get 32 on and I want to do Arthur. What duo you think I should go for?
ripe crane
So pick Athena for Tartarus?
lost otter
yup.athena attack. + find artemis some were.
For DR duo (artemis+athena)and you can add demeter and aphro fo more surviving.
ripe crane
Ok 👍 thanks!
ripe crane
😮
lost otter
more practice with artur range.
artur dont need be in melee zone do deal damage.And athena attack +special solve problem with range attacks. with DR and expose Huge damage increasing. mark be amazing too. ahro and demeter add surviving to handle even HL5 FO2 EM4
high kettle
i just [posted my first heat 16 in #h1-victory-boasting , mind to tell me if my choice of pact was a good idea? causde i was pretty slow
lost otter
to behonest.if you play slow and carefull. time not huge deal. main Goal its beat Hades rigth?
don't worry about TD so much. this is the only one punishment on the list. it's ok if you are slow. You beat your heat. This is important.
high kettle
i wanna try heat 32 soon
so i wanna see what is good to use
to beat it
im gonna try to do it with rama maybe cause chiron feels a bit... weak
lost otter
it's not OP now) let's say names correctly.
daring hedge
honestly had no clue you could just not get a midshop in elysium
lost otter
now its good weapon with Huge damage
daring hedge
that was a terrible discovery
lost otter
its usual deal for me
daring hedge
no midshop and no pat, just lots of time and pain
high kettle
for heat 32 idk if i should go chir0n or rama then...
onyx forge
Whichever you prefer.
Prefer chiron myself, but each to their own. Rama has its upsides too.
bronze viper
If you're asking which is better, they're identical at 32. Chiron is definitely easier to pick up than Rama though.
onyx forge
Turn on FO and play more aggressively.
bronze viper
That may be room for the user to improve 😛 I haven't had issues with TD2 + JS3 + CP2 at 45+
onyx forge
It's harsh at first, but you get used to it.
high kettle
idk... i dont feel like i did rally wrong, but some rooms with just a lot of medium ennemies hurt the timer
like witches in tartarus or a lot or archers in elysium
bronze viper
Shrug, there's always stuff to improve and optimize on. With Chiron, there's a decent amount of decision making as far as when to buffer Strike + Special, go for Power Shots or 0-charge attacks, or the safest but slowest option, of Attack + Dash away + Special
All of them have pretty big impacts on your time vs. safety slider
But at 32, none of that matters, just pick the pacts you dislike the least and go for it.
lost otter
EllomenoP speed runner try my weak version of Dio crit build on stream.20 min ago. on CHIRON. and result was 10m in game time.🥰
bronze viper
EllomenoP speed runner try my weak version of Dio crit build on stream.20 min ago. on CHIRON. and result was 10m in game time.🥰
@lost otter Yeah, Chiron is capable of stupid fast times without JS or CP
bronze viper
Dio is good lol
bronze viper
The heat meta is exceptionally different than the speedrunner meta.
high kettle
Whats DIO build?
lost otter
The heat meta is exceptionally different than the speedrunner meta.
@bronze viper Im try to breake it )
bronze viper
It's Chiron's version of Rama's Deadly Strike + Drunken Flourish
It makes more sense to do it on Rama, but Chiron is perfectly capable of running it too.
bronze viper
I ran that build for my seeded 50, if you're curious
Ah, no, close, I didn't end up with Deadly Strike, the concept still applies. I think my 49 from Blood Price used Deadly Strike + Explosive Shot but it barely matters, the idea is that you can let Relentless Volley + Drunken Flourish hard carry you through the first 2 biomes while you pick up attack stuff along the way to get through the last 2.
Deadly Strike is nice because you can get Splitting Headache to give Hangover (and everything else) more crit
It was pretty much necessary in Blood Price but it's just better to start off with Attack stuff with Rama in Tartarus, since the power shot is usable now.
bronze viper
The videos, and Tailesque's Rama runs are in the spreadsheet in the sticky in this chanel
bronze viper
Np
ripe crane
Losing runs to very stupid stuff and RNG is so discouraging. What are the motivation strats?
bronze viper
Sleep, play other games, do other stuff. I tend to only play games when I'm in the mood to actually play them. It's very easy to get discouraged if I'm in "I must get x milestone" mode
ripe crane
hmmmm maybe I will just play on lower heat lol
bronze viper
If you're insistent on continuing Hades, try a meme run at lower heat--go for a build you wouldn't typically because it's bad or whatever
hollow lynx
take self care runs
i have multiple, all on heat 0:
- full wine hera
- quick massive hades spear
- delta chamber eris with lightning strike
daring hedge
fun fact: charming the EM4 sneak does absolutely nothing. charm is erased as soon as it teleports
hollow lynx
did you just figure that out
ripe crane
I think the embedded cast that doesn't get removed when he telepotrs
daring hedge
yes
hollow lynx
daring hedge
had a good run that was pretty much ruined by that sneak alone
also not getting an athena DD but that's a luxury anyway
hollow lynx
he, uh, snuck in the win
daring hedge
yeah casts are about the only thing that stay on sneaks across teleports
all other debuffs or curses just poof
hollow lynx
if they did pop on teleport, exit wounds would be a hard counter to sneak (and hades in general)
ripe crane
Are there any dece strats for non-arthur sword?
daring hedge
special dash-strike dash-strike rinse repeat
lost otter
swords different. poseidons and nemesis different worlds.
daring hedge
well yes, poseidon is typically cast spam with special to get them out naturally
but dash-strikes don't hurt on poseidon either
ripe crane
I see a couple Merciful end builds on the high heat spreadsheet from Blood Price, is that still viable?
Guess I'm gonna find out
true fable
for fist?
lost otter
why does everyone think this duo only works for fist?
attack + dash sword.same ro rails,shield,spear.
daring hedge
not the same really, no. fists dash-strikes come out faster and have less end lag, so merciful end can be spammed at a quicker rate. it's not that people only think it works on fists, but that it's the most effective on fists compared to other weapons
lost otter
same speed at rail. probably better. becaus you can hit attack and special befor you be in range of dash.
true fable
the only weps its on in the spreadsheet are sword and fists afaik
not arguing that it cant work with rail mate
lost otter
becaus sword and fists close combat weapons. that reason they not on top. Sheild have OP block with 100% damage reduction. spear range weapon.
ripe crane
I meant for sword. Zag sword specifically
solar blade
“Fists ... not on top”
WR was done with fists
lost otter
wake up WR not fists
WR Heat its rama. WR speedrun its first 10 positions probably same build of Eris with zeus attack,poseidon dash,sea storm and Sigil.
Idk about what WR @solar blade you talk.
dry flame
ME + VM would make this very fun
bronze viper
TFW when you fatfinger and sell your Greatest Reflexes to UC then panic so you accidentally sell your core boon
dry flame
ripe crane
Protip: The timer doesn't run down during selling boons
I know some of you newer players might not know that. No need to panic while selling
true fable
pain
ripe crane
woooo I got to use my favorite combo of Piecing Wave/Flurry Slash, got merciful end at the end of Styx and it was good enough to beat Hades 😄
I know this should technically be in the victory channel, but y'all have been so helpful in getting me to all 32s/my 100th clear. Thanks so much! https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/679466835283804306/767543920007577610/unknown.png?width=1194&height=671
daring hedge
would you believe me if i told you the sneak summon was responsible for an entire DD loss
ripe crane
woooo nice! What does the "gamma overseer" mean?
daring hedge
oh that's just a title from postgame
hollow lynx
it's a post-ending thing
ripe crane
Oh the badge thing in dad's room?
daring hedge
yeah
hollow lynx
yes
bronze viper
But most importantly, we can put Repulse Shot to rest.
daring hedge
lmao
but what if i had repulse shot... and hadn't lost those extra DDs because of it
hollow lynx
repulse would've blasted away those sneak spikes
bronze viper
(They can't get knokcked back)
daring hedge
the gravitational suck thing EM4 hades does in phase 3 is so bizarre and inconsistent
is there a pattern to when he uses it?
hollow lynx
the what?
bronze viper
Unsure. I still have to try the brightness thing you did, I find it very hard to parse specific things in p3
(by design obv lol, but still frustrating)
daring hedge
i only really noticed it recently but hades can essentially make you slide along the ground
which he did to make me slide right into his phase wave that run
hollow lynx
oh, is that what that was?
daring hedge
he also did it in the 54 but he wasn't around to take advantage of it at all
hollow lynx
i always thought there was some weird movement interaction going on with zag
daring hedge
yeah exactly
hollow lynx
like, a bug or something
daring hedge
i didn't know what to make of it last time, but it seems like it's just a thing hades can do i guess
true fable
i forgot i had damage control on and am used to trying to speed theseus fight so i used my companion right after dialogue
pain
hollow lynx
pain
bronze viper
Oh I do that all the time lmao, no worries
I also brainfart and lock into my bad decisions when I start charging with Rama into a blue heart. Gotta get the power shot
daring hedge
same, and charging a power shot when the enemy has like, 5% health left
or is about to break armor
hollow lynx
power shotting into a dc heart is the biggest brain move i love doing
daring hedge
also shoutout to using antos during a styx MM miniboss with both of them up, and patroclus decides to target the DC2 rat that hasn't even finished spawning in
hollow lynx
oh my favorite is when i hit battie too early on dire rat because it doesn't have a traditional spawning animation
bronze viper
I mentioned yesterday my favorite big [chungus] brain move is charging a Twin Shot, finding out it's going very slightly whiff, but then wiggling your dstick back and forth to try to lure the enemy over like a bobber
hollow lynx
and then meg hits some random cure pool in the distance
true fable
i usually go to miniboss tunnels first but i am scared of 32 heat tiny vermin
hollow lynx
or hitting battie and then having dire rat lunge out of it immediately
ember bronze
My first >32 win in #h1-victory-boasting
daring hedge
congrats!
wait does eris boost revenge damage
i know the answer is probably "duh" but i never thought about it
hollow lynx
yes
bronze viper
Our big happy high heat famile is getting bigger by the day.
hollow lynx
i mean, "all" damage is pretty clear
(except when it isn't, looking at you companions)
daring hedge
are you SURE when it can't boost summon damage
bronze viper
i know the answer is probably "duh" but i never thought about it
@daring hedge I was relatively offended to find out it didn't buff summons lol.
hollow lynx
you know what does though
bronze viper
Targeting lmao
hollow lynx
targeting system >:^)
daring hedge
lol
bronze viper
IT'S A FEATURE
daring hedge
consistent
true fable
i thought that was bc targeting is basically an enemy debuff instead of an active damage buff
daring hedge
that's actually kind of a good point
but still weird because both you doing more and them taking more is
worded as, all
bronze viper
Isn't Black Out also a debuff? I dont' think that works though
daring hedge
so. shrug
hollow lynx
if sgg sees this convo and "fixes" targeting system, i'm gonna scream
let it stay an underrated treasure
bronze viper
Are you really though
ember bronze
I wound up in a weird Zeus/Ares/Dio pool in A1, fell into Vengeful Mood accidentally
And thought--well, Holy Shield could be good with this?
bronze viper
You got Vengeful Mood in Tartarus? What a legend
ember bronze
Used Athena for Dash, Holy Shield, and 2 extra lives
Just full-blown trying-to-stay-afloat picks
(And yeah, it was really odd)
bronze viper
Lol, it's fine, I got 49 Rama with AP2 in Blood Price pretty much exclusively because I managed to get Black Out in Tartarus
true fable
is targeting system really underrated
i am also currently in styx riding on 2 extra dds from patty and 2 extra from athena wish me luck
ember bronze
My third Boon is often a "to sell" pick, so I just grabbed blue Heaven's Vengeance
bronze viper
I think Targetting System is correctly rated lol. It does what it says it does
daring hedge
just realized that i went through 60% of phase 3 with 20 health, zero DDs. like, i only thought about it when i glanced at my health a couple seconds before victory
i think if i realized sooner i would've freaked out and lost honestly
bronze viper
My first Guan Yu 32 clear took 8 DDs. All 8 of them. I won with like 20 hp left.
bronze viper
3 DDs, 3 Patroclus DDs, 2 Athena DDs
daring hedge
yeah i know, i guess i'm just surprised because my most after the DD change was maybe 6 or 7
wraith imp
so chiron got buffed? i randomly noticed that charon now fires 8 (instead of 7) max special shots after attack targeting.
hollow lynx
ehhh
bronze viper
Lol, it was a blessed run. Coincidentally I never tried Spin to Win with FO2 HL5 ever again.
hollow lynx
bow special got nerfed, chiron got an extra arrow so the nerf wasn't as bad for it
bronze viper
@wraith imp It got 25% net nerfed
wraith imp
of course.
daring hedge
i really wish GY spinning was more viable at high heat
bronze viper
Base special arrow damage went from 15->10
hollow lynx
instead of a -33% nerf, the extra arrow made it -25%
dry flame
daring hedge
which is predictable coming from me, who loves to spin
wraith imp
AAAAMMMMMIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRR trying to piss us off
bronze viper
AAAAMMMMMIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRR trying to piss us off
@wraith imp Did you play in Blood Price?
wraith imp
i did
dry flame
im pretty sure i only have holy shield rn too
bronze viper
Lol, so you know how unbelievably bad Chiron was then.
dry flame
so idek how this is here
bronze viper
Amir giveth, Amir taketh away
hollow lynx
amir could've taken away the athena dd + sd trick, so be grateful
daring hedge
god it was terrible
wraith imp
I do but it holds a special place in my heart because i liked using ares so much
ember bronze
What happened with Chiron in Blood Price?
daring hedge
the setup was the same idea but it felt so clunky and boring
ember bronze
I think I did most of my learning in Nighty Night
daring hedge
was one of my least favorite aspects
wraith imp
but that was before i realized how many other far superior builds there were
bronze viper
It received the same animation buffs that the other base bows got, and it got like a 50% damage increase
hollow lynx
bow pre-1.0 had worse recovery and worse damage
dry flame
thats so weird
daring hedge
@hollow lynx i'll never forget amir inquiring about that tech here, with us just waiting and hoping he wouldn't take it out afterwards
white inlet
what is the trick to chiron bow? Feel so squishy with it. Hits hard but take more damage than all my other weapons
ember bronze
It is weird--Brilliant Riposte is the only real Athena "Tier 2"
a thing that modifies Deflects
wraith imp
amir could've taken away the athena dd + sd trick, so be grateful
@hollow lynx
Amir already took away DDs. In like the 3rd (or 4th?) update, a player could have like 10+ DDs.
And then he went almost full grinch on that...
bronze viper
You don't get hit heh. It's a lot like Hestia and GY Special builds
You just play way back and pewpew
hollow lynx
Amir already took away DDs. In like the 3rd (or 4th?) update, a player could have like 10+ DDs.
i know, and i agreed with that change
much, much healthier for the game overall
daring hedge
it's a good change
wraith imp
I hated it at the time but now I love it.
bronze viper
Pre-1.0, you were absolutely lucky, and standing place still the the entire time to get 3 Chiron volleys off in the space of one debuff
true fable
when the initial stomp knocks you into a boulder
hollow lynx
my 153 heat run
i kinda miss the crazy inflated heat numbers we once had lol
bronze viper
Though punch line was that even in that situation you were better off just using the bad Zag attack
hollow lynx
will never forget when i finally did my 60 heat run against hydra and got my second statue
daring hedge
i kinda miss the crazy inflated heat numbers we once had lol
collecting heat as a consumable resource from lernie
bronze viper
I am so mystified by this boon set you posted lol
daring hedge
into asphodel :P
hollow lynx
i think your goal is to go to the surface 😛
bronze viper
It's confusing, because even though you have Divine PRotection you still need defense lol. I would sell Passion Dash and try to get Divine
Strike or Dash
bronze viper
It is probably too late for that honestly
bronze viper
The problem is that (assuming you have EM3+), you need Acorn, so you have 1 god left to pick
dry flame
EM4
bronze viper
OKAY well you have a number of problems to solve hahaha
bronze viper
Getting damage is priority 1. Getting deflect is up there too
dry flame
i guess i just go for HR at this point
bronze viper
So maybe Arrowhead for Deadly Flourish? Or perhaps since you already have passion dash you get go Zeus for Lightning Strike and aim for a good Call
- Smoldering Air
bronze viper
Zeus, Dio, Athena, Poseidon, or Aphro
The other three don't exist, don't worry about them
bronze viper
Zeus is ideal here because it's 1 and done for requirements, but probably Poseidon > Athena > Dio > Aphro for the situation you are currently in.
bronze viper
Call?
dry flame
yeah poseidon call
bronze viper
oh that's what you meant by surge, kk
hollow lynx
call? you mean wrath
dry flame
ill try for athenas aid
true fable
aphro call is pretty anti synergy with smouldering air though right
bronze viper
Nope, it's amazing vs. bosses
ANd in general
It's near permanent CC against normal enemies
And it lets you pretty invalidate anything that bosses can do
true fable
hm i need to try it sometime
bronze viper
With EM3 you can very easily get them to kill each other, and Dad has a lot of deliberation time between his attacks, and Aphro's Aid kind of resets him back to that state after it ends
hollow lynx
every 5 seconds you can tell a boss "no <3" and they have to deal with it
bronze viper
Or you can catch him when he's spinning to instakill summons
It turns off lasers too
bronze viper
you can't lose DP
hollow lynx
the only bad part is that hades seems to do a spin immediately after the charm wears off
bronze viper
(unless you sell it obv lol)
hollow lynx
which is, like, ok dad lol
hollow lynx
reroll >:^)
bronze viper
Brilliant Riposte is so medium on your build lmao
You have literally just Divine Protection to deflect
Holy Shield does not count, you already had to have gotten hit
Wait, Divine Protection doesn't even deflect
bronze viper
So, sell that jank
bronze viper
Athena's Dash/strike/call*
dry flame
already have passion dash tho
bronze viper
Cast to a lesser extent
dry flame
this is a nightmare run
bronze viper
Nope
dry flame
nope
true fable
also it seems to go to where im aiming but is that the case
dry flame
charm lasts for full duration
bronze viper
Love hurts
(Charm also can't miss, it will whirl around and hit something if you aren't aiming specifically)
true fable
i see but itll pref whatever ur aiming at
dang i was hoping i could get lernies heads to fight each other but they kind of just sit around when charmed
dry flame
that would be hilarious
hollow lynx
just charm the summoned bloodless instead
nothing more satisfying than lernie's own raker clawing it to death
bronze viper
Charming white Lernie means you don't get curbstomped
hollow lynx
white lernie is a bad omen i swear
even if i don't die to it, the smasher head will still find a way to kill my run
lost otter
hm i need to try it sometime
@true fable https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulPopularCarrotWholeWheat or do stuff like this)
But honestly better to charm asterius. his spin do alote more damage)
grizzled pollen
What's actually considered high heat anyways? Been grinding away trying to get Skelly's 3rd does 32 count?
ripe crane
that's so cool Oversky
grizzled pollen
If I remember right people have managed as high as 51 pretty recently
true fable
do people use meg or than on high heat
i started out using than, moved to meg for speed, but now im considering going back to than
lost otter
probably 32+High heat. befor its middle heat.
tepid mural
Than just takes too long, so foes can get out
daring hedge
meg and antos are probably the most popular at high heat
true fable
yeah i usually just time it during bosses imperm to chunk them but am open to other ideas
lost otter
Meg fast summon. its Tan slow but more damage.
grizzled pollen
I've been using bouldy
tepid mural
Shady is amazing
daring hedge
shady loses a ton of value once you incorporate LC4, so it's not great for high heat
but for low to mid, it's good
grizzled pollen
Plus all the bosses reacting to it are some of my favorite lines
tepid mural
Yeahz once you reduce healing is goes down in value
lost otter
but for low to mid, it's good
@daring hedge Agree.
true fable
need to get better at dodging :^)
tepid mural
"WAS THAT A BOULDER FROM THE SKY??"
grizzled pollen
I try not to take LC unless I have to. I think I only have LC1 rn. You'd think it'd feel the same as having Hard Labor but it really feels so much worse
daring hedge
yeah, LC is pretty avoidable even at 32
true fable
playing on high heat sometimes feels like im starting the game again
lost otter
after i calculate some....what better melt miniboss and dont take damage...or take 30+ damage and heal it back...but if Heat with LC or HL... better to kill faster.
daring hedge
i used shady and didn't put much into LC back when i did 32
wraith imp
hades keepsake is kinda superduper awesome. i just maxed it out and it's incredible.
grizzled pollen
My 16 heat was funny as hell though I just ran with forced overtime and time limit cranked up and 1 in hard labor and did speedrun strats, barely any harder than my normal poseidon aspect runs
lost otter
im btw...all time forgot about summons...shame on me. even on hades i forgot use it or use it bad.
wraith imp
but i prefer to use hades keepsake mini-breaks instead of full keepsake because more opportunities to vanish (4x2 = 8 sec) instead of full call (5 sec). it's also nice to have zeus clouded judgment which accelerates call gauge gain.
grizzled pollen
What does being invisible actually achieve? You can still get whacked can't you?
unreal pasture
@mossy zinc What 2nd hammer do you try to get with GY spear...
Assuming Charged Skewer and 3x dash strike?
true fable
@grizzled pollen it's less about the invisibility and more about the +100% damage boost
wraith imp
What does being invisible actually achieve? You can still get whacked can't you?
@grizzled pollen
can't be targeted. i haven't been able to figure out if this prevents targeting during trials or when theseus does his call.
however, like lilmacademianut said, it's about the 100% percent boost which can come in clutch depending on your build. for instance, a strong dps rama build with sigil of the dead can deal 4,000+ damage.
lost otter
@grizzled pollen it's less about the invisibility and more about the +100% damage boost
@true fable that discussion theme too.becaus if you dont deal damage on lesser call.Its 3 second of invulnerability in invisibility.
with build\weapons what can good\fast grow upcall. Sigil work alote better then accorn or ahillies bracers in defence way.
wraith imp
btw, friendship with excaibur has ended, friendship with rama has started. i'm really really REALLY liking rama after watching Tail and ledger use it well. picked up a lot of tips.
hollow lynx
basically me when 1.0 hit, though i was still in denial for a couple of weeks
wraith imp
yep. it's surprisingly versatile - more so than at first glance/playthrough
lost otter
my personal opinion. sigil is for caste-based builds. Becaus you enter in room. and you can buff one cast like dio,zeus,poseidon. or if you play with demeter crystal its melt. and 5 second of +100% damage greater call....I'm not sure if this is a competitive great call compared to the rest of the others call (with another boon in builds). especially at high heat.you must have GREAT build to meet expectations. But in defence way and for cast Sigil work great.
daring hedge
can someone explain to me why sigil is used so often in speedruns now? Like, I just genuinely don't know since I don't really speedrun. I thought the lesser only affected a single hit, but I see runners spamming lesser constantly anyways
loud coral
The damage/speed boost is probably really helpful, plus I’m pretty sure it lets you start an encounter with at least one call charge so it’s pretty much an insta-kill call for speedrunners
lost otter
@daring hedge to buff first cast in rooms. like zeus cast and kill first wave of enemy instantly
loud coral
How well is Slicing Shot with it? If I cast a blade rift but the call ends while the rift is still out, will the rift still have the extra damage?
lost otter
i swear i've seen it used on non-cast builds too
@daring hedge its buff 1 attack on lesser call. and this attack can be charged special on demeter fist to melt boss or super fat target.
i try use sigil when know i have PS+Ruthless reflex buff+blood shard +DR buff on me to get 10k+ crit on artur 3th swing
dry flame
game crashed as im entering heroes chamber
dont have the option to quit only give up
48 heat run was just doomed from the start
wraith imp
Sorry to read that. It happens. The very first hades save file i had just deleted itself in a crash. I had to start over. (Fortunately, we were only on elysium update.)
bright raptor
The sigil is +100% for the entire 2 seconds on lesser call (contrary to what the wiki says about the +100% only applying on the first hit)
loud coral
Yeah the invisibility is the only thing that goes away after the first hit, but the speed and damage boost alone make it good enough
Though only 5 seconds for the greater call is a bit underwhelming imo
I get that it’s not supposed to just be better Athena but at the same time I feel like it should either be able to be pommed or it should just have a longer duration for the greater call
bright raptor
at least it has a useful niche
daring hedge
@bright raptor ahhh, it all makes sense now, thank you
i think i assumed that the damage went away after the first hit in the same way that the invis does
bright raptor
Yeah I don't think the available descriptions are particularly clear about that
tidal flame
Did I miss Tail 55 heat clear again?
daring hedge
perhaps 
lost otter
daring hedge
just put up the vid in #self-promotion btw
dry flame
ok so even though priveleged status requires alot less to get going in terms of the dmg bonus
would it be more worth at higher heats to take family favorite
daring hedge
generally yes, because FF is always active and the average boost by the end of a run is only going to be like 10-15% additive damage behind PS
dry flame
man i hope they one day add a endless run option so we can see the full effect of FF
theres technically 10 or 11 bonuses?
bright raptor
9
bright raptor
chaos does not count
daring hedge
FF only counts olympians, and chaos is not an olympian
dry flame
wait damn
lost otter
But in high heat.... its hard to have more that 2-3 gods and FF give ONLY 10-15 additive damage. When just 2 gods and 3-4 boons with PS player can have 40% damage even on High heat.
FF only counts olympians, and chaos is not an olympian
@daring hedge Hermes dont count too.
bright raptor
hermes does count
daring hedge
hermes does count
dry flame
oh it literally says olympian on the mirror
lost otter
today a see stream it was 20% with ares,dio,demeter,apro and hermes. how its posible?
dry flame
damn im dumb
lost otter
hermes does count
@daring hedge are you 100sure about it?
daring hedge
also i still think FF is better for high heat in terms of unseeded consistency (or lack of). for example, both my 54 and 55 runs would not have ever benefitted from PS
so taking FF was the right call, and i ended up getting some bonus rather than none
dry flame
also i still think FF is better for high heat in terms of unseeded consistency (or lack of). for example, both my 54 and 55 runs would not have ever benefitted from PS
@daring hedge this was my thinking
its not always likely to u get the right boons to proc PS
daring hedge
not that it exactly matters because of RI2, but you know lol
also @lost otter not 100% sure, to be honest
but felt pretty sure since hermes is an olympian and fits the bill for what the perk entails
dry flame
so whats the highest heat u can get
daring hedge
63 or 64 with hell mode
bright raptor
should be straightforward enough to test
daring hedge
which is probably never going to be cleared by any human aside from potentially an insane amount of routing
lost otter
i think FF good for begining (start zones).But ALOTE weaker end in Builds.becaus player easy can have 2 debuffs.
dry flame
just like on the pact
daring hedge
if TD3 didn't exist, i would have a different opinion lol
daring hedge
honestly most high heat runners don't mess with it either
having to rely on getting another hermes dash while AP can potentially deny it anyways
it's rough
daring hedge
and yeah RI4 is just, not worth just 2 heat above RI3 lol
RI3 isn't even worth 2 heat, really
but it's even across all levels of RI so, yeah
bright raptor
I dunno how to upload on this channel, but I can confirm that hermes does count for family favorite
daring hedge
ah, thanks for testing for us
you can use an external image link here
like imgur or your own server img link etc
bright raptor
Before hermes: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/767594330068090910/767594394466910249/20201018224322_1.jpg
After hermes: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/767594330068090910/767594426401947688/20201018224338_1.jpg
foggy ruin
@daring hedge hey I have to ask, why Antos over the others? I've seen people scratching their heads over the choice
Congrats again lol btw
lost otter
i show you moment from stream
daring hedge
thanks! honestly i don't have a big reason; i'm also comfortable with meg
but the 500 extra on single targets like hades is nice
digital hull
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/538557239196254241/767596022569369610/Untitled.jpg
TFW you absolutely melt your dad
Privileged Status Serrated Dash run
lost otter
did you see? 4 gods +hermes and only 20%
daring hedge
also allows me to nuke the furies real quick if i'm in a time/health pinch
which is often at high heat TD3 tartarus lol
lost otter
@daring hedge did you see my screen shot? its Dio aphro ares demeter and hermes and only 20%
daring hedge
yeah, i'm not sure because homiej just confirmed in a simple test that hermes does count
bright raptor
it could be that premium vintage isn't counting as one
foggy ruin
Is Premium Vintage unsellable? I have a suspicion that if a boon is unsellable then it somehow doesn't count for FF
daring hedge
that seems like a good theory
bright raptor
I can test it out
daring hedge
@foggy ruin also hopefully people head scratching at my antos choice aren't calling me stupid for using it over battie lol
because i'd probably agree that battie is a little better
i just never switched off antos
foggy ruin
Oh, mostly they're like 'Antos is bad lul' when apparently it's just a comfort pick.
A bit of flex, if you will
bright raptor
Premium vintage indeed does not count for FF