Yeah, for sure lol.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
maiden geode
hermes offers quick reload, quick favor, epic attack speed
mossy zinc
Hmmmm.
Swift Strike doesn't affect Reload time. Probably Swift Strike, though, if you got no rerolls. 
Although, I wouldn't know what to reroll for tbh lol.
Swift Strike, yeah.
maiden geode
got 2 rerolls. I already have the greatest boon so I don't want to roll
mossy zinc
Epic should help you just delete things.
mossy zinc
lol
maiden geode
vs cast
maiden geode
dashes
mossy zinc
You'd know better if Sea Storm has been doing anything for you.
maiden geode
I have 3 main poseidon boons
one of them is rocket bomb special
so I'd imagine that it's good
mossy zinc
Probably just sell your Cast if you haven't been using that as much anyway? I don't imagine you would, with Eris.
maiden geode
I just cast for boiling blood
oh silly me
it's not cast
it's razor shoals
this is easy lol
mossy zinc
lol
mossy zinc
I would honestly love all that cash from selling Sea Storm way too much. Your main damage is from Lightning Strike anyway, isn't it.
woeful hawk
nyaanyaa could you help me with 2 things?
mossy zinc
400+ whatever you get before the next shops is a couple boons from Lady Athena or Centaur Hearts or whatever.
Or boons from Lord Zeus.
maiden geode
well, tempest flourish rockets are putting up some real competition with my attack
mossy zinc
At this point, survivability and Splitting Bolt is all you're looking for.
maiden geode
yeppers
woeful hawk
i was told by volty that you are the person to go to for eris builds and help
maiden geode
that's weird, nyaa doesn't even play eris much
we just talk about eris because I'm doing eris runs
mossy zinc
I did like 2 runs, I think, with Eris.
bronze viper
Of the people who frequent here I probably play Eris the most. Haelian and bablo also play it but they're a lot less active
woeful hawk
oh nvm
woeful hawk
can someone write in builds what gods i should go for when doing a guan yu run
mossy zinc
Eternal Rose > Owl Pendant/Thunder Signet > Coin Purse/Acorn depending on EM3 or no > Acorn
Yeah, hammer is good.
maiden geode
oh shoot I forgot to swap my keepsake out. guess I'll have to muscle out theseus.
mossy zinc
Especially because the hammer will keep popping up and remove your choices between boons and stuff lol.
Oh, that is not so good lol.
I believe in you. 
mossy zinc
@woeful hawk get Heartbreak Flourish > Divine Dash > Zeus' Aid > Smoldering Air.
@maiden geode that doesn't sound like a question lol.
maiden geode
my back to back zeus boons didn't give me splitting bolt
epic reflexes, epic billowing strength, common clouded judgment
mossy zinc
All good boons, though.
maiden geode
hmm, which one
mossy zinc
Oh, I thought you picked up those three haha.
maiden geode
yeah for my first pickup I grabbed storm lightning for splitting bolt
billowing strength seems deece but I don't get call very often
also a nonbo with poseidon's aid lol
maiden geode
during poseidon's aid I don't pewpew
mossy zinc
Epic Lightning Reflexes will dilute his pool with Lightning Bolt boons.
maiden geode
oh yeah that's a problem
bronze viper
Billowing is a global damage mod, it buffs Poseidon's Aid too
mossy zinc
Poseidon's Aid gets all the +75% bonus from Eris, too.
mossy zinc
And you're INVINCIBLE! 🔫 
bronze viper
Billowing also lasts 15 seconds and Poseidon's Call is less than 2, so... you have your 13 seconds to pewpew as well
maiden geode
damn lost my DD on some janky interaction
an exploding ghost ball got me while I was on a wall or something
went to a store. I see demeter.
maiden geode
random pom is probably also a no
mossy zinc
She ain't got nothing for you.
maiden geode
agreed
mossy zinc
Random pom is good.
maiden geode
omg it hit lightning strike
mossy zinc
See? lol
mossy zinc
Miniboss always.
mossy zinc
You lost a SD + DD to a non-miniboss chamber.
maiden geode
oh right
mossy zinc
Asterius should be easier.
mossy zinc
Ded?
maiden geode
ded
mossy zinc
Ded. 
mossy zinc
Hmmm.
I think you should make some practice saves for the boss fights.
Don't wanna get all the way there on a good run and just die because you're not confident in the fights.
maiden geode
I don't see any copy save function in the menu
mossy zinc
No, you'd have to do it manually.
mossy zinc
Just gotta create profiles 2–4, then when you get to any chamber you want to practice in your main profile, copy Profile1_Temp.sav and overwrite your permanent save in any of the other slots with that (e.g., save it as Profile2.sav and it will be in slot 2).
maiden geode
sneaky
mossy zinc
When you load slot 2, you'll start in that chamber. When you give up while still in the chamber (even upon death), you can just reload and redo the fight for practice.
mental hearth
Wow that’s so handy. Can’t do on switch 😦
wanton plover
sadge
mossy zinc
Switch can't switch save files like that? How ironic.
mossy zinc
Lady Aphrodite.
mystic apex
pretty sure Switch can do it with homebrew but you gotta hackerman it
maiden geode
how exactly does seeding work?
when I restart a run, the first chamber is always the same
mossy zinc
Yup.
mossy zinc
Yeah, that's good.
There's a RNG counter that goes up depending on what actions you do, but actions during encounters apparently don't affect it, and that determines the next chambers and boons and all that stuff.
maiden geode
seeking fire, ricochet fire, hazard bomb
I see, so seeded runs are all about RNG manipulation
mossy zinc
Probably Seeking Fire? I dunno, I used that on my 2 Eris runs, I think.
No, seeded runs in itself are just all about the starting boon.
trim sigil
Well, it's routed that is about rng manip
mossy zinc
Routed runs are about routing, yeah.
maiden geode
lol
mossy zinc
All routed runs are seeded, not all seeded runs are routed.
mossy zinc
Poseidon's Aid would be absolutely amazing with Smoldering Air.
I dunno why you look down on the highest single-target damage Call in the game lol.
mossy zinc
Hmmmm. Hard to say. I'd maybe take the cast just to get him in your pool and save rerolls.
Though Poseidon's Aid is tempting.
Early Call gets you access to Smoldering Air and Second Wind early. But if you have no rerolls to get them, the odds are low for that anyway.
If it was a miniboss chamber, I'd reroll for potentially Epic Poseidon's Aid.
maiden geode
getting the cast then
okay I have a miniboss poseidon room
I also got my reroll back from a key chamber
time to roll I suppose, since none of these are call
mossy zinc
Sounds good.
maiden geode
missed. again?
spare sinew
or any dmg on target(doesnt seem)
maiden geode
it's dash vs the two loot boons
anything that just says "bonus damage" is all damage
mossy zinc
I'd reroll again. You have a chance for 2 Duo Boons, no? With Lightning Strike and Heartbreak Flourish in your pool.
maiden geode
if it specifies a source, it only affects that source and not any boons on it.
@mossy zinc
yep
spare sinew
thx
wanton plover
yes
mossy zinc
Yes.
maiden geode
dash-strikes are still attacks right
bold estuary
guys, how much HP does Hades have ? and is it the same HP in Extreme Measures 4 too ?
maiden geode
epic dash, epic rupture, rare hydraulic might
mossy zinc
17000 + 17000. I dunno about EM4 HP.
bold estuary
thanks
mossy zinc
Err.. I guess rupture or might.
maiden geode
ewww demeter is in my pool now
mossy zinc
Sounds good. Might get Blizzard Shot or Cold Fusion.
She's not bad if you're not running AP.
maiden geode
dash, frozen touch, (nourishing soul)
mossy zinc
It's the combination of AP UC LC4 that makes her very risky to take.
maiden geode
definitely frozen touch
mossy zinc
Frozen Touch is amazing, actually.
maiden geode
forced sell is jolted and special and attack
well is useless, like literally 3 do nothings
mossy zinc
Should be an obvious choice.
maiden geode
still want owl pendant ya?
maiden geode
indeed
mossy zinc
I'd take Eternal Rose and push for Smoldering Air.
maiden geode
sounds good
rip
first time I've died to barge of death, ever
somehow felt as though I was doing no damage
even though I have epic attack and everything
mossy zinc
Lightning Strike wants poms.
maiden geode
it does
well this next run is rough
hammer start into large cloning witches
zeus or aphrodite
unused zeus keepsake
ruby panther
What are the easiest 32 heat I can put, want to unlock the last Thados thing
maiden geode
that's basically the most common question on this channel
it depends on what aspect you're bringing
solemn ocean
i wonder if it's possible to outdamage super hades' healing phase...?
ruby panther
I did a 16 yesterday it was very painful
maiden geode
the must-haves are MM, BP, FO1, TD1, UC, some amount of HL, EM3 EM2
you can pick your poison from there
since you're excalibur it should be fine for you to go all the way to HL5
ruby panther
I can play whatever honestly
bronze viper
Those are pretty aggressive must haves lol
maiden geode
I don't like AP1 lol
bronze viper
EM3 is very far from must have, and probably one of the hardest pacts to take at 32
bronze viper
Also unnecessary, sec. @ruby panther, what is your favorite aspect?
Also as a heads up, if 16 was painful for you, you may not want to fast track to 32... difficulty doesn't scale linearly in this game lol, pacts make other pacts relatively harder.
maiden geode
^
ruby panther
I like the spear that those extra dmg after sweep but idk if its viable really
bronze viper
Hades is great
maiden geode
something like 20 heat is fine to work towards
hades is great
should not be a problem taking TD2
(needless to say bring a max level aspect)
ruby panther
I was going up on heat naturally until I discovered the achievement on Steam so I jumped from 8 to 16
bronze viper
Lol, yeah, I assume the statue is why we get your question like a thousand times a week 😛
ruby panther
I always play the +20% loot weapon so idc but I had better performances with Rail apparently
bronze viper
But you really can't rush it in this game... there's a reason there is no achievement for 32 from Steam.
maiden geode
nothing wrong with that
rail's beginner friendly and high level friendly
friendly in general
bronze viper
(side note: wow it's hard to get heat to work correctly without LC4, such a pain)
ruby panther
But you really can't rush it in this game... there's a reason there is no achievement for 32 from Steam.
@bronze viper I think it's sad, they should have made one. Just to have mega late game achievement like Isaac for example
maiden geode
eeeeh
it's probably a choice they deliberately made
to make the game human-friendly
32 is not for the un-dextrous
bronze viper
Hades isn't marketed for roguelite hardcore players. A lot of the people who play are in that category, yes, but people will play this game as Supergiant narrative game too
And it feels bad to have these achievements they can't just get from like... not investing a hundred hours of practice into the game.
maiden geode
in any case the high heat runners get their recognition elsewhere
youtube, here, etc
trim sigil
Yeah I like they decided to make all achievements humanly possible for most players
even at the cost of sacrificing an obvious milestone
ruby panther
Yes I discovered the speedrun section of a website yesterday
I didn't think it was even possible to beat the game in 7m lol
bronze viper
We don't really optimize too hard in that direction in this discord but some of that is necessary to at least hit Tight Deadline thresholds
maiden geode
they shave seconds by turning on FO2 and EM2, getting the absolute fastest aspect and starting god
static plover
in blood price sub 5 igt happened a couple of times
ruby panther
I understood the lvl of try hard when they pressed pause right before the room popped
bronze viper
We do that here too lol
static plover
stopping igt to make decisions is quite a good idea
maiden geode
TD2 can be tight if you're unlucky
static plover
stops the TD timer too
maiden geode
TD3 is just tight, period
bronze viper
I like to this TD2 as a mechanics and build check. If you're playing efficiently and your build does what it's supposed to, you should be fine nearly regardless of what build you're using. TD3... is just out of reach for many aspects, and the more health/enemy count mods you add, you have to start making massive sacrifices to make it happen.
maiden geode
TD is why max heat is impossible and I love it that way
means the fun is in edging ever higher
ruby panther
Yes thats what I figured trying to play with the heat setup, time is impossible with monsters hp bonus and their protection stuff
bronze viper
The vast majority of builds should still be able to deal with Jury Summons 3 and Calisthenics Program 2 with the 7 minute timer
Damage Control varies wildly on aspect
maiden geode
hence why most of the 50 heat clears are on aspects that easily pop DC2
bronze viper
I tried to come up with a general pact setup for Hades for you, but without knowing what pacts you find comfortable or not it's really kind of pointless. You kind of just have to feel it out yourself :\
maiden geode
(such aspects also tend to be good in general)
I did my 32 heat run with the aim of going even higher so I picked all the nasty game mechanic pacts
bronze viper
For instance, a lot of the high heat community will always take max Lasting Consequences (no healing) with Stubborn Defiance, but some people despise playing with it. Some people swear by FO2, some people refuse, same with EM3. Some people hate timers, some people like to go fast.
ruby panther
What are all aspects that are good for high heat? Like where you guys are at 50 or so
bronze viper
Eris and Chiron are probably the lowest entry barrier aspects for high heat at the moment.
Rama is... not the easiest aspect to pick up blind though
bronze viper
Zag bow is great.
bronze viper
Do you have UC AP1 CF2 active?
If so Demeter can be kind of a trap if she offers some combo of replacement + unsellable
I like Artemis a lot more. Support Fire and Lightning Rod are a lot more likely than Cold Fusion
wanton plover
yes they body block kekw
bronze viper
You also may have been stunned
Or in the case of pre-1.0, you may have attempted to fish in lava lmao
trim sigil
Bouldy pickups also have collision. Very satisfying for them to soak up all my attacks
bronze viper
Or body block you when you try to heal
maiden geode
well this sucks
I lost a pretty good start because my laptop's dropping frames
guess I'll give this a break
mossy zinc
11:37 new PB Guan Yu, but I forgot to use Antos vs Hades to save seconds.
Anvil came in clutch with Serrated Point.
mossy zinc
Some people say Guan Yu is trash without hammers.
left rivet
Those people don't use special I assume
mossy zinc
Some people say Guan Yu Massive Spin has bigger AOE than a wide AOE Special that goes fullscreen and beyond.
trim sigil
Fat explosive launcher
Some people say Guan Yu is trash without hammers.
tbh, I do really fail to understand the base potential of guan yu. Feeling like a bunch of aspects yields better results while not cutting hp in half
Even charged skewer was so mmm that I had to combo it with massive spins
ruby cipher
it's all because health-related boons don't affect lifesteal stuff on weapons and hammers
which seems like an oversight tbh
trim sigil
Would rather that sort of oversight than "-60% max hp" hammer on lc4
ruby panther
Oh btw why do people like Meg companion over Than one?
mossy zinc
Even charged skewer was so mmm that I had to combo it with massive spins
Why would you spin?
ruby cipher
spin fun
lost otter
@wraith imp https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/764819599711272960/765753718343204905/unknown.png
mossy zinc
New PB. Woo. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/767024033916911616/Hades_996.png?width=835&height=470
crystal iron
3 heat is very high heat indeed
mossy zinc
I know, right?
rocky lark
Wow stubborn roots is really good with the LC4 SD combo
Nice time @mossy zinc Is that a serrated point GY build?
Also this isn't that high heat but what do people generally take into elysium?
Coinpurse or acorn?
Or maybe hourglass for touch of styx?
mossy zinc
Yes.
wanton plover
i like acorn but if your are very brave and confident you can take purse kekw
trim sigil
Why would you spin?
because it actually did damage
150 x 4-6 hits compared to 300 dmg skewers
rocky lark
I feel like Arthur really shines at higher heat, seems like it's strengths are highlighted here
trim sigil
Well, it's fairly bald to call that actual damage given the animation of either
rocky lark
Normally it's fun but just not as quick as nem or pos
trim sigil
Heh, interesting. Arthur is really slow for high heat, albeit quite rewarding
a sword for only the most courageous players, indeed
also the fates played a joke on me and my fastest clear is 15 minutes on arthur farming run
rocky lark
Low tolerance (with aphro on special and dio call)
or
Rare positive outlook
Probably low tolerance because it can be sold to UC for good money?
I'm not sure how many times dio call even applies hangover with a small call tbh
And I wasn't going to greater call cause it's dio and also I've the hermes dodge and movespeed after call boon :\
trim sigil
Low tolerance is +3 hangover for weak targets, right?
rocky lark
Yep
trim sigil
Take it, yeah. I believe lesser dio call is more than 5 so it's gotta be good
mossy zinc
It's 7.
rocky lark
Are erebus gates in elysium too risky or would it be worth a shot with FO0
I'm fine on TD
trim sigil
Well, if you don't mind losing guaranteed rewards, you could try
Personally I tend to avoid elysium unless busted build
rocky lark
Chamber 33 with obol, pom, or Erebus gate Hermes for reference
And 500 gold on me
Yeah getting onioned would be a bit of an oof
I would like to pick up another dash though since I ran ruthless reflex for this
Lol maybe I can use skelly
I have 5 charges left since I bought 2 uses
yolo
Hahaha lost it
trim sigil
Yummy 
honest kernel
lost otter
trim sigil
perhaps
lost otter
Td 2 on Ahillies killing me
mossy zinc
13:41.69 . . . 5-sack.
lost otter
to hard with DC2 and CP2
mossy zinc
Do JS2 CP2 instead.
lost otter
trim sigil
LC3, maybe
lost otter
probably.
holy cow... i donw wana use reflex on ahillies. its alote slower becaus no AoE like in artur.
trim sigil
Also you'd probably prefer to keep distance with it rather than engage, hmm
speaking of which, what do you plan for a build?
lost otter
Artemis attack poseidons cast. mirage shot and duo demeter+poseidon
trim sigil
Oh, I see. Yeah that's promising, dare i say you took that right out of my head
lemme find a clip i got recently with something similar
lost otter
Becaus Poseidon+demeter Duo do insane damage. even with out many poms in
and without a lot investitions
and i wana mark with its.
trim sigil
The only thing I had going for casts there is fully loaded (5 casts total)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/546306968042602516/767061104324771861/blizzardshoot.mp4
Achilles with 3 should match and beat that no problem
lost otter
Not so easy man when you do my heat)
trim sigil
Yeah, that's understandable
lost otter
what mean ngl?
trim sigil
not gonna lie
mossy zinc
What Heat?
lost otter
With 2 DC zeus cast almost uselles.
trim sigil
HL5 on 32 heat, whew
rocky lark
Do people not run that haha?
@lost otter by the way I think it was you I saw advocate for ruthless reflex on arthur, I really liked it
random bough
HL5 isnt too bad on arthur
rocky lark
Think it works well since you just do spaced out single dashes
random bough
Would've taken FO1/TD3 tho
lost otter
@lost otter by the way I think it was you I saw advocate for ruthless reflex on arthur, I really liked it
@rocky lark Yup. i play artur with reflex
rocky lark
For 32 heat with fists, is ME on dem aspect still fine or would I need something easier to get going?
mossy zinc
ME is fine.
dry flame
gonna try and grab
Splitting headache
heart rend
curse of nausea
low tolerance
deadly reversal
merciful end
on dem fists
trim sigil
Stonks
rocky lark
Oh I did that on rama
trim sigil
Sounds like rather conflicting list tbh, because you have to obstruct attack and special with athena and ares
rocky lark
I did aphro attack, dio special, arte cast and ares vengeance
dry flame
it is a conflicting list
im looking at it now i dont think this would be very fun actually
rocky lark
Got low tolerance, splitting headache, curse of nausea and heart rend
lost otter
this game finally stopped mocking me.7 runs in a row first time can take duo.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/764819599711272960/767067201777303593/unknown.png
trim sigil
The funniest part, clearly, is forcing 5 gods
dry flame
prob just DD
if athena dash dd
if something else sd
is the way i normally do it
but thats just me
rocky lark
I just wanted to keep JS0 for TD3 and also CF0 to get ME easier
dry flame
yeah u could also up LC and take 1 off RD
rocky lark
Can take off UC and keep HL4
dry flame
*TD
rocky lark
I'll get a feel of the TD first I guess
I think fists are quick enough
aslong as there's no big BP2 hurdles
dry flame
true
yeah fists i always cut it close with TD on the furies but after u get past that its pretty fast
rocky lark
dry flame
looks good
rocky lark
gl gl
mossy zinc
Stupid 3-sack. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/767071166677516358/Hades_1004.png?width=835&height=470
@dry flame hell. You got yourself into hell.
dry flame
as long as the boons dont screw me i should be fine
storm oriole
hey guys , is there anybody who can tell me how to unlock the hidden weapon aspects? not the normal ones. I have checked dozens of articles and videos which were not helpfull. I have unlocked every weapons aspects exept the hidden ones. Maxed out 2 weapons but still achillies is simply not talking to me about unlocking them? There are absolutely no guides whatsoever about unlocking them. Please help out. Thanks
mossy zinc
There's a pin for that in #h1-story-discussion.
rocky lark
@dry flame JS3 CP2 BP2 TD3 
trim sigil
You meant to say MElphon, right?
mossy zinc
I'd mean Gilgamesh if I said that. And I don't play Gilgamesh.
trim sigil
Ay, fair enough
mossy zinc
Gilgamesh is exactly what I hoped and wished the Hidden Aspect for Malphon wouldn't be.
I wanted a cool, fast hidden aspect for Malphon.
Maybe something with a cool Special feature.
Not whatever Gilgamesh's Special is trying to be.
lost otter
😲
rocky lark
Do you run zeus attack zag fists?
mossy zinc
Who?
rocky lark
You
mossy zinc
Divine Strike.
rocky lark
Ah
trim sigil
I wanted a cool, fast hidden aspect for Malphon.
granted all 4th aspects prior were slow, was quite a bold dream
Ah well, we got what we got
hollow lynx
does lucy count as slow
trim sigil
Attack delay, ramp, staged special
mossy zinc
Lol yes.
mossy zinc
Easy cast build. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/767086900237303828/Hades_1010.png?width=835&height=470
rocky mauve
bouldy carried you 
lost otter
Ok now i need handle new shield. I be try Wrise build. with Dio cast +artemis legentary on SS
daring hedge
bouldy is vital to runs of any heat level
wanton plover
what if he gives you ambiguity
daring hedge
that's the best one
mossy zinc
Oh, I should get Aegis under 15 sometime.
lost otter
Hmmm hmmm little of topic. Surprise for me.
||https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/767096445550460958/unknown.png||
Im was not prepared for this
daring hedge
lol, neither was zag 
lost otter
||Tan and Mag at same time!!!!||
mossy zinc
Hacks.
lost otter
its realy stop spears?
daring hedge
yeah lol, it counts as a projectile after it's thrown, and repulse actually repels it
hollow lynx
the new meta is twin repulse
daring hedge
it's a rama hammer; repulse shot
it doesn't deflect, but it can destroy or repel projectiles
lost otter
Ooooh! its explusive hammer for Rama?
hollow lynx
or maybe sniper repulse? since you'd want to be far away enough to react to the spear throw in order to repulse it, you might as well capitalize on the range
lost otter
rigth?
daring hedge
yeah
mossy zinc
There are also no other Guan Yu speedruns submitted in 1.0 lol. But I beat the Blood Price Guan Yu record, too. (1 Guan Yu run was submitted in Blood Price.)
daring hedge
i still think sniper's range requirement is a little far for my tastes
mossy zinc
So I'm like 100% meta.
daring hedge
100% meta, 100% crits
mossy zinc
No longer lol.
lost otter
im use Athena cast for deflect spear trown)
hollow lynx
sniper is too far but playing point-blank on em4 is suicide
mossy zinc
I dunno why nobody else plays Guan Yu + High Confidence. It's fun.
hollow lynx
midrange shot, we need it sgg
lost otter
repulse shot, i'm sorry i ever doubted you
@daring hedge But its realy nice timing! i feel alote practice with this)
daring hedge
sniper is too far but playing point-blank on em4 is suicide
@hollow lynx then explain all those juicy triple shotguns on dad
hollow lynx
listen
lost otter
Apparently, my 10:12.18 is WR for Guan Yu specifically.
@mossy zinc
mossy zinc
hollow lynx
triple shotguns are juicier with point-blank, but then you don't have repulse
what we really need is that third hammer you could buy in styx
daring hedge
taking anvil before EM4, after a long run, hoping it doesn't ruin your build is truly the play
mossy zinc
Wow, the speedrun server and leaderboard is just all the Eris players lol.
mossy zinc
I did, yeah.
lost otter
weak ago i saw one demeter fists in board))
mossy zinc
I wanted sub 10, but after getting so close with a 3-sack, I figured 10:12 was good enough lol.
I used to struggle hitting TD2 at all with spear in Blood Price, so I'm happy about the progress.
mossy zinc
lol nice. ME?
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
lost otter
after that just try to say something that ME with dash is not a broken mechanic now 
Im go try Beo 50. becaus shields broken. i think it be not so hard as 45 spear.
mossy zinc
lol good luck!
lost otter
Damage from Beo Die cast +1 duo just bonker.can't image with 2 duos.
ripe crane
Aight y'all. What's your favorite spear setup?
bronze viper
Favorite to play? Achilles + Crystal Clarity + Glacial Glare with Stygian Soul.
Favorite to clear heats with, Hades + Exploding Launcher
I used to rank Charged Skewer GY a lot more highly but after the Bow buffs it seems a lot less appealing to lose half my health lol...
lost otter
My its ahillies +poseidon cast,Artemis attack.+duo from demeter and duo with artemis.Stygian soul. Mark,breaking wave,Arctic blast. Cast and attack build at same time.
ripe crane
I was trying the Achilles/crystal build yesterday, that seemed fun but I wasn't sure if it was really viable. I actually had the duo by the end of Tartarus. Ran out of time in Elyseum.
Or actually I died normally because I was getting close to running out of time and was panicking a little
Poseidon cast could be an option
rapid egret
This seems like the best place to ask this question:
I was watching a Haelien video, and some people in his chat were talking about someone else who did a run that they said was routed. I got the impression that they were saying this was a bad thing, and that the run was invalid because of it.
So what is routing, and why is it a bad thing?
bronze viper
It's a highly opinionated thing. It's not intrinsically bad.
lost otter
Poseidon cast could be an option
@ripe crane My build tricky. alote tricky.becaus poseidon cast +demeter dot do insane damage. BUT if you add mirage shot (Atremis+poseidon). its becom HUGE. becaus its double damage from Duo(demeter+poseidon). and becaus artemis in build you can have +2 cast from artemis legendary. and becaus you have mark all things in build can crit.and if you find arctic blast...its madness.
bronze viper
Routing is using RNG manipulation to map out the possibility space of rooms that can generate from a seed, and to pick a specific route through them to maximize the boons you could get (or free rooms etc.)
This discord has a pretty bad habit of treating routed runners as second class citizens, and that opinion propagates outwards, which results in people just hating it conceptually.
It is very hard to route. It is a skill and art unto itself
ripe crane
Well I always start with Arthemis, so I will see if I get Poseidon after and go from there 😅
lost otter
im start with poseidon cast. becaus with High chance game offer you ares,demeter and artemis.Its easy way to have my build. and easy way for start.(poseidons cast melt rooms in begining)
daring hedge
the high heat spreadsheet that's pinned here handles routed runs simply and well, in my opinion. it's a distinctly separate category from seeded/unseeded (as it should be), but still put up alongside the rest in the same space, and not vilified in any way
lost otter
Seed or unseed.Its still same difficulty.Enemy still Hit hard. you MUST have reaction.experience in game,experience with weapon. and experience to create optimal way to create a build an beat all enemy.
bronze viper
I actually more or less agree with you. It does make some difference though. I think Chaos pre-1.0 would have stagnated at about 52 Heat (so no Calisthenics Program) if it wasn't for the seed found that had AP2 Epic Thunder Flourish, Epic Static Discharge, and Athena in Tartarus.
lost otter
it seems to me the number of people who could beat the game on such hell even with the best start is negligible
bronze viper
Oh it is, for sure, but the question even at top play at the time was "Can Chaos actually kill bosses fast enough"
The answer was generally "No, not without a Duo Boon" until that seed was found.
true fable
is the recommended setup for chaos usually thunder flourish for high heat?
ive always done curse of pain as a rule but im struggling on higher heats
bronze viper
I invested most of my play time yesterday with Chaos and got 40 and 43 with Thunder Flourish. I think it's still fine.
It doesn't have that "hit everything on the screen multiple times then have each shield returning proc its own Thunder Flourish" pizzazz though
lost otter
i play Chaos in poseidons way with Second wave and slam boons. Add zeus cool.specialy with sea storm.
Second wave +slam boon too Op for ignore.
true fable
is it worth going for dem attack and cold fusion with that build or poseidon attack and sea storm @bronze viper
bronze viper
Cold Fusion is awesome if you can get it, though I prefer Curse of Agony to help buffer your damage
bronze viper
If you get lucky you can get Vengeful Mood, which is decent
You can kind of just get it for free sometimes
true fable
true
bronze viper
I don't go for it though
true fable
with the odd holy shield/wave of despair/cold touch or something
bronze viper
Heaven's Vengeance and Curse of Vengeance are good enough on their own, but yeah the others work
I like the Sea Storm + Tempest Flourish builds but I hate relying on duo boons, so I typically play it safe
lost otter
its vid from i even dont touch my artur. only close claws 32. main damage not zeus.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dnvsxnw37fz38mr/Chaos pos%2Bzeus..mp4?dl=0
and its pretty weak build.but its room cleaner. not even need use Chaos mechanic to clear rooms.
sinful pivot
I've been playing on about 10 heat with Zeus shield applying hangover on special, and trying to get the piercing shot bull rush upgrade to play defensively and shoot. Is this a decent strategy on higher heat?
bronze viper
For Zeus? No not particularly. Easiest way to play it effectively is using Zeus special
You can also go for Divine Strike + Curse of Pain + Divine Dash for Merciful End
onyx forge
Zeus special is good. It procs well. Athena is super safe which is nice.
Demeter is good too since the slow stacks decently fast and helps keep them in the AoE.
lost otter
Zues aspect can have ANY build. @sinful pivot even hangover special can melt. Try add in build artemis and find duo(artemis +dio). find mark. and find ares or aphro in build for another duo. If you like Dio special.
true fable
wait does each hit of zeus special apply doom
bronze viper
You need Merciful End or Dire Misfortune to cash in the insane attack speed
true fable
yeah with ME sounds nuts haha
onyx forge
Yeah but that's also just ME being nuts.
bronze viper
You can also cheese things to death with Explosive Return + spam special. You can just do this by itself lol
lost otter
Hmm i find little trick. You can load cast in Beo...when you charge bullrush.(not befor charging)
stark cape
yeah, i do that a lot. you can start moving and then press b to load while moving. helps if you haven't decided how many stones to use
you can sometimes even charge through a stone and load it in the same charge
wraith imp
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/767096044877512714/repulse2.gif
@daring hedge
Yep. My friend sent me your run today. He left a comment about this exact thing which surprised him.
bronze viper
@wraith imp What surprised him?
hollow lynx
probably the blast wave repulsing the spear throw
bronze viper
Ohhh, lmao, that. Yeah, I don't know how much credit to give him, but timing that is hard enough that I have to imagine he just did it by accident or out of greed.
You could do it a lot more safely using Divine Dash but hey, sometimes even trash hammers give you freebies.
hollow lynx
why not... both
ripe crane
How do people get any good builds going with routine inspection on. I've not seen a duo boon for what feels like 5+ runs
hollow lynx
they don't rely on duo boons 😛
ripe crane
I mean... I'm not either considering I'm not getting them lol
bronze viper
So you figured it out then 😛
ripe crane
Idk, I just feel weak. I have RI2 on right now, may try some other configuration to remove it. Make enemies stronger, make myself stronger too.
bronze viper
Even without RI, the general goal for high heat is to have a stable build that gives you outs for Duos or Legendaries, but you shouldn't have to rely on them happening.
Likewise it's in every heat runner's best interest to create a save at Dad without Patroclus or Athena DDs to grind out the fight with an honest amount of effective life. You'll thank me when you get the dream DPS run but your frail supple body that run blows over to the wind.
daring hedge
I feel like I'm the only high heat runner who never kept a dadfight save to practice on repeatedly lol
All my practice came after 15m+ full runs etc
bronze viper
I mean, strictly speaking that works too lol. Obviously, given your results. I just hated the panicky feeling I got entering the boss room with a great build.
ripe crane
I turned on EM4 for this run and I'm absolutely going to die there because I haven't done the fight for a while.
daring hedge
I still get that feeling pretty much every time at 50+
bronze viper
It's somehow way worse than if I had absolute garbage, at that point, tryhard mode would be engaged, but if i have everything I know I'll feel like a big dummy for failing.
ripe crane
Mmmm yep, I felt like that yesterday. Wasn't even on EM4, figured the fight would be a breeze and I didn't try as hard as I should have
Fast dad can still kill you
daring hedge
I wonder if that psychology is part of the reason I've been getting victories lately with just, super weird hammer setups
Like it's less pressure in a weird way
bronze viper
It also helps that Rama is one of the best weapons without a hammer, but it scales just as good as the rest of them with hammers lol.
bronze viper
But I feel that. With Twin Shot I expect something to die, and then I'll mentally context switch to the next target. If they don't die, or if I miss a power shot timing, I'm left there for a couple of frames like a complete idiot trying to adjust my game plan, then i get hit and die
If I have Repulse Shot, life is hard and every kill is a blessing
daring hedge
Lol, yeah, with subpar hammers you kind of don't take anything for granted and there's a weird motivation that comes from just scraping by to see how far you can get with what's been dealt
That was absolutely what happened with my most recent hades and demeter aspect runs. Just, totally not great but they made it
bronze viper
Lol, I assume you've also done the Twin Shot dance where you have it at max range, but it's just short of hitting them, they're at 1 life, and you start wiggling your controller back and forth to coax them to enter the range of your shot.
daring hedge
Lol yeah or I'll just dash up and spend that half second to toss a minimum charge arrow at them, which feels extra silly on things like elysium souls
bronze viper
I like how people assume you have to be perfect playing God to do heat towards 50. I still think I play like an idiot, but i have a desire to change that a little for the better each time and I've played for a while lol.
So naturally it frustrates me immensely when people whine at low heat about their build or whatever making it impossible to win.
daring hedge
Me, casting and using the special while hades third phase wave comes at me and hits me for 70 damage: "obviously my gameplay is infallible"
hollow lynx
LMAO i remember that
and then getting smacked with an 100 dmg spear throw 5 seconds later
daring hedge
That was such a rough phase 3 start lmao
bronze viper
I know right? Why does it do 100 wtf dad?
hollow lynx
why is it base 50 dad
daring hedge
"Great I still have both defiances- ah not anymore cool"
hollow lynx
heat 10 has never been so hard
wraith imp
i'm trying to improve my performance on rama and i have a number of questions:
for instance, does twin shot work with dash attack? (i can't seem to get that hammer in 5 runs.)
bronze viper
Maybe. I would find RI4 with HL, FO, or AP probably harder than EM4 by itself lol
true fable
funny enough the first time i ever cleared 10 heat was with em4
ripe crane
I am sitting here struggling to come up with a viable 32 heat pact. Idk where y'all find the extra 18 points.
hollow lynx
twin works on dash strike, so do all the other attack hammers
true fable
@ripe crane same here the struggle is real
hollow lynx
...which i'm now realizing is another inconsistency among hammer mechanics and wording, huh
bronze viper
Lol, you've been on a roll with answering your own questions @ripe crane. The answer is you don't!
They suck and you deal with it
true fable
ive accepted i definitely flub a lot of gameplay and its not the build rn at 32 heat
ripe crane
Gonna try FO2 
hollow lynx
what aspect? i can show you my set-up from my 32 eris
wraith imp
twin works on dash strike, so do all the other attack hammers
@hollow lynx
Thanks.
ripe crane
Achilles Spear
hollow lynx
my rama might be a better fit then: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/725021639506526249/765740258184265748/Hades_92.png
daring hedge
So naturally it frustrates me immensely when people whine at low heat about their build or whatever making it impossible to win.
@bronze viper at the risk of sounding extra salty, I get this same type of feeling when people complain that hades aspect is bad because the spin is bad etc... like perhaps don't blame the weapon for a playstyle that you have yet to get comfortable with lol
hollow lynx
every time i see a hot take spoken on this server, i hold back my thoughts and just post a instead
ripe crane
That's basically what I am using Onyx except -1 HL +1 LC because I think that's better for boss fights
bronze viper
I mean, to this day I still see "rama is bad. you can't even power shot" in builds-and-combat. It was... valid in Blood Price but lol, you should at least try it in good faith now.
daring hedge
Oh relevant because onyx dusa'd at a "rama power shots are bad at high heat" take like, recently
bronze viper
The hottest of hot takes I've seen is the entire tier list article someone linked yesterday I think in builds-and-combat
Some legit 64-heat takes
hollow lynx
i also saw a take where they said rama builds haven't been extensively explored
bronze viper
It's so juicy though lol
daring hedge
Lol
hollow lynx
...and that one take where a guy wanted an easy rail build but refused to play eris
bronze viper
I would dismiss it if the word count wasn't so high. They thought a lot about the words they chose.
lost otter
I am done with 45 spear. Ahillies amazing. alote easy then artur. now i wana Beo . but not 50. i try 40 and 45. same as i do with spear.
bronze viper
...and that one take where a guy wanted an easy rail build but refused to play eris
@hollow lynx Lol, this was pretty much everyone pre-1.0 though.
daring hedge
Oh I remember the eris hater guy. Basically wanted to do a one boon run and asked for a weapon opinion after trying luci. We said eris and he was like "ok but not that because I hate it"
hollow lynx
perhaps lol
bronze viper
But "I hate it" is a valid opinion to have. It's not an objective statement about the nature of the weapon
hollow lynx
he did end up winning his one-boon challenge later, so it worked out in the end
daring hedge
Not saying it wasn't valid, but he acted like our suggestion was crazy
bronze viper
I didn't read this conversation you're referring to though I don't know how bad it got haha
daring hedge
We didn't know his preferences and he asked for any aspect
lost otter
What spear have max heat now?
bronze viper
Has been Hades and I don't see that changing any time soon :3
lost otter
probably yes. i can not give video. and dont wana be on desk or some thing
daring hedge
I could probably knock out hades spear 51 pretty simply but 54 EM4 with a melee weapon? With potentially -25% dash distance? HMM
Not too excited about that idea
lost otter
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/767088959565725706/unknown.png
Mb later i try some thing High. but realy wana Beo and Artur more heat.
bronze viper
Is Exploding Launcher not fast enough for TD3?
daring hedge
It doesn't seem like it unless you get like, a chaos flourish maybe
It's mostly just okay sustained damage
bronze viper
Womp womp. Maybe we'll eventually find the technical genius that can leverage Charged Skewer GY at 50+
daring hedge
Having that be the main damage source for EM4, I feel like it would take a whiile
wraith imp
Btw, @daring hedge @bronze viper @hollow lynx
does point blank and triple shot work with dash attack?
hollow lynx
yes
daring hedge
Yes
hollow lynx
i'm realizing now that my advice "hammers differentiate between attack and dash attack" does not, at all, apply consistently
less consistently than i first thought
bronze viper
Sometimes I accidentally do a standing attack and I get confused when it does more damage
wraith imp
Yep. I'm not getting hamers i want so i'm asking. I'm wondering what the max damage would be for rama dash attack.
daring hedge
Lol I can't remember the last time I consciously did a standing bow attack
wraith imp
yeah, the attack is fool's gold
bronze viper
Base is 125, 75 Suffering
wraith imp
the dash attack is where's it at
hollow lynx
standing bow attack is a little spice to make your run more flavorful
bronze viper
For Dash Strike
I have no idea what Rama's standing attack animation is, I might get Blood Price PTSD
hollow lynx
post traumatic stubborn defiance?
wraith imp
wait...does explosive shot work with dash attack? if so, does it diminish speed of dash attack too?
bronze viper
Yes to both
You can safely consider the bow as just not having a standing attack. There is nothing that only applies to it
wraith imp
got it. thanks. game's rng is completely screwing me for last 4-5 runs so i'm not getting a chance to test out some ideas
hollow lynx
the fact that bow doesn't have a dash attack-only hammer should tip you off
it's unfortunately inconsistent with how other weapons' hammers (aside from rail) work, but
(now i'm forming a hot take that sgg should've made a dash attack hammer for bow/rail! this game is affecting me too much)
daring hedge
countless hot takes, all waiting to be shared
hollow lynx
hot take: lambent plume's bonus should also count towards hermes rarity
dim jetty
It does let you get hermes legendary's without other prerequisites.
daring hedge
that would be pretty fun especially since it's not like it would guarantee hermes off the bat, and his boons don't define a run so much as help it out
also i find plume underwhelming unless you also get rush delivery
but that's probably not even too hot of a take anyways
hollow lynx
hotter take: achilles is the least fun aspect in the game
wanton plover
did u try zag spear
daring hedge
these are getting spicy now
dim jetty
Whhhaaaa? No way. Achillies is amazing caster spear. Try artemis cast with it. It rocks.
hollow lynx
at least i can special spam with zag spear
if i spam with achilles i get nauseous
lukewarm take: dash nova isn't that bad, guys :'[
dim jetty
My least fun aspect is definitely the rail where you have to bomb yourself. I think it's awkward and don't enjoy bombing myself. Lol
daring hedge
i don't know what temperature take: don't like hoarding slash as a sword hammer as it has nothing to do with sword uniquely, feels like a cutting room floor hammer concept
bronze viper
Hot Take: Nemesis Aspect is a Zag Sword Hammer.
hollow lynx
that's funny, because it used to be a hammer
and then aspects were released and it was turned into an aspect
daring hedge
was this before murder death kill? maybe i just didn't play sword enough back then
hollow lynx
same with eris and zeus (kinda)
maybe? i don't remember when aspects were first released
fickle mountain
i can do well with every weapon except shield, what do you folks take on it
hollow lynx
nemesis' hammer equivalent was empowering nova, eris was empowering blast, and zeus was mirage flight (you threw your special and could still attack while it was flying, though otherwise it acted like regular shield special)
bronze viper
All 4 shields play extremely differently, which one's your poison
daring hedge
i definitely remember mirage flight
fickle mountain
i can't get ahold of most of them, beowulf's the most manageable
daring hedge
and never took it because why use shield special during that time
daring hedge
no give me the deets
fickle mountain
ares beowulf is always hilarious to watch
hollow lynx
you could hold down your special and have it machine gun faster than rail can fire
edgy arrow
wat
daring hedge
LMAO what the
edgy arrow
lmao
bronze viper
i can't get ahold of most of them, beowulf's the most manageable
@fickle mountain The least adjustment you could probably have to play Shield is probably Zag Shield + Pulverizing Blow. You're just a good sword at that point
fickle mountain
i wonder if anyone's done a spreadsheet yet of all the stats for each weapon + boon
edgy arrow
there’s a boon damage spreadsheet, so you’d be able to work it out with that
fickle mountain
i never get lucky enough where pp lhave 5 Atk/Sp boosts in a row
my chaos rng is right before a hermes room when i want that extra dash
bronze viper
People post screenshots for a reason lol
hollow lynx
oh yeah, i forgot, hestia also used to be a rail hammer called heavy slug
bronze viper
Hestia's implementation with hammers is kind of slapshod
I'm kind of surprised it made it to 1.0 in its state
fickle mountain
I hate hestia on controller, reloaiding on R3 messes up my flow on buttons
bronze viper
It sucks for everyone, you rebind it 😛
ripe crane
I have it on left trigger and it's 👌
edgy arrow
imagine using default mappings lol
fickle mountain
casual
bronze viper
They're okay minus reload
fickle mountain
player detected
edgy arrow
nah fr on KBM i used Q for special for an embarrassing length of time
edgy arrow
before i realised there was literally no reason to do that
bronze viper
How has your controller not imploded from stabbing your R3 lol
hollow lynx
playing on controller? gross 
daring hedge
my trusty right stick will never falter on me
fickle mountain
now i wonder if i should change cast and special, its a pain to do dash-upper since im going from bottom to top
buddy you should see my buttons, theyre faded from abuse
ripe crane
Playing on KBM is kinda cheating tbh, y'all get so many more buttons to pick from 
bronze viper
You can buffer dash strike into upper which helps with that ironicallyh
(in the same dash)
edgy arrow
lol yeah, shameless hack
fickle mountain
tfw you try to maim and end up jumping into the air with special instead
edgy arrow
y’all have multidirectional movement, but i can map attack to tilde if i want
daring hedge
i'm in too deep with the default scheme that the weirdness of dash-upper is natural now
hollow lynx
i've played with special on e for too long to rebind, i'd mess up my fingerings mid-run and get killed
fickle mountain
damn now i have to rebind reload
daring hedge
but i also did the claw back in the psp days so this is kind of tame in comparison
fickle mountain
i've yet to get high high heat but damn do i love Chiron with seastorm
getting consecutive special and +4 special
daring hedge
it's what thunder flourish chiron wishes it could be
fickle mountain
Priceless
bronze viper
I have been tempted to try it. Actually whatever sure I'll give it a shot at 45. Tempest Flourish has a pretty thicc bonus
fickle mountain
kill the heroes in 30 seconds i laugh every time
Zag fists with Tidal dash seastorm is also pretty hysterical especially once oyu have wall splash
just run into styx rooms and one shot everything
daring hedge
kind of can't believe i didn't blow it with this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/767216999130202162/20201017164804_1.jpg
against all odds i think i'm terrible with eris
bronze viper
The build is dece though
daring hedge
i know, and i still barely made TD3
fickle mountain
mr. speedrun over here, meanwhile i'm PB at 14:30
wanton plover
kekw mine is like 17
hollow lynx
delta chamber being used at high heat, would've never thought
wanton plover
i watched a guy get sub 4m on youtube once monkaOMEGA
remote basin
What is the easiest setup to get through a 32 heat? I’m not fantastic at the game but have unlocked most things now
bronze viper
There isn't one, it's very subjective
wanton plover
anything you’re comfortable with
pick an aspect youre comfortable with and experiment with the heat
fickle mountain
i saw one guy speedrun but this was when you could one shot lernie exploit
also love the lack of EM4 Hades there bud
wanton plover
em4 is so torture
fickle mountain
i wouldn't want to get one shot with 100% bonus enemy damage on top of that nightmare
daring hedge
EM4 makes normal hades feel so relaxing
daring hedge
yeah lol, for sure
fickle mountain
true, didn't see the tight deadline
wanton plover
one thing is that it is only effective in the last minutes of a run so it can feel like you wasted 20m just do get bonked by off screen spear throw in the dark
daring hedge
not much eris practice at all, no T2s that were useful, at all
would not have gone well
fickle mountain
its quite the trade
go range for safety then get bonked from spears
or
go melee to stay close in the dark but get bonked if you suck at dodging
i sure suck at dodging against EM4
daring hedge
his FO2 spear toss comes out so quick at melee range that you almost can't avoid it on reaction alone
fickle mountain
first time i got hit by that spear
i've opted to go athena call against EM4 now
used to go poseidon but i'd rather wail on him than hit with only 800
daring hedge
or just go in with no call
edgy arrow
cries in lack of i-frames
true fable
what trinket do people use on high heat nowadays
is it mostly personal pref
for hades i mean
edgy arrow
all of them
fickle mountain
edgy arrow
for hades? acorn
daring hedge
acorn all day every single day
fickle mountain
i go lamebent plume with dodge fists, fun time
true fable
good to know yeah i used skellys before but realized acorn is probably more effective hp
fickle mountain
Just Don't Get Hit
wanton plover
the disgusting sneak eats my acorn in one chomp
daring hedge
and giant soul catcher butterflies
daring hedge
no, EM4 hades summons versions of minibosses
wanton plover
hades summons minibosses on em4
daring hedge
i think spearpoint is actually decent for EM4 phase one because butterflies, doomstone lasers, etc will just set it off a bunch
but otherwise dad just hits too hard
to where it hardly helps
hollow lynx
perhaps... bracer? 👀
daring hedge
wanton plover
i tried collar tooh bracer spearpoint and they all didnt feel good
i honestly thought tooth worked with touch of sticks
bronze viper
It look like Sea Storm also has an ICD, visually approximately the same as Thunder Flourish
My disappointment is palpable
daring hedge
i had a feeling but i didn't want to believe it, sigh
bronze viper
Hmm, I'll try again and actually record this time, it's hard to tell. I mean, I had Relentless Volley... so the fact that things were not instantly exploding with 12 * 40 = 480 bonus lightning damage before FF was kind of telling.
ripe crane
Okay but imagine how busted it is now, with an ICD, and then how much more busted it would be without one.
bronze viper
Lol, it doesn't feel much different than just using Thunder Flourish tbh
As in, it's fine
AoE is cool
working on maximizing the memes, hunting for second wave and the rest of the Poseidon boon gang
unreal pasture
Considering the heat challenge that cuts out 2 boons...
It kind of seems fine to me to allow pretty controllable RNG
bronze viper
We stopped acknowledging AP2 as a community Unseeded gang
unreal pasture
You can only do the same, consistent build until you get into that.
Or you quit the run until you get your build
Really? People don't play AP2? I do find it pretty unfun...
Because you get pigeon holed into well...
Picking the boon that pops up
The RNG is rough
wraith imp
@bronze viper @daring hedge @hollow lynx
I'm wondering if my math is right for this rama buildt:
200x1.97x2.5x4x1.75X2.1 = 14,480
-200 (125+75) = dash attack
-1.97 = heroic tier artemis dash attack
-2.5 = point blank
-4 = triple shot
-1.75 = fiery presence
-2.1 = epic tier chaos boon
bronze viper
Nope
hollow lynx
additive
wraith imp
Ok. So help me understand what is additive and what is multiplicative.
unreal pasture
+% damages all roll into one modifier
hollow lynx
+20% + 20% = +40%, so it'd be 1.4x base damage
bronze viper
Dash Strike and Power Shot is just a difference of base damage, you can just simplify it to 125, Suffering and Triple shot are the only multiplier in that list. So 125 * 1.6 * 3 at point blank range is your base value
unreal pasture
So backstab, boons. (+50% +X boon) * base damage
bronze viper
You add up all other modifiers as one lump percentage then multplier by that base number
wraith imp
Ok. Take the build I have above and show me what the math actually is.
unreal pasture
If you want to plug numbers into something. The shield's primary does 25. 25 * 1.4
wraith imp
Dash Strike and Power Shot is just a difference of base damage, you can just simplify it to 125, Suffering and Triple shot are the only multiplier in that list. So 125 * 1.6 * 3 at point blank range is your base value
@bronze viper
That should be point blank. I edited it.
unreal pasture
Do the end result would be 35
Granted, critical strikes can take that whole end result and multiply that to 70
bronze viper
Sorry, my phrasing was confusing. I meant point blank range, not Point Blank Shot. So assuming that all 3 Triple Shots hit
Point Blank Shot is an additive modifier
unreal pasture
Point black shot is a +%
wraith imp
additive how?
unreal pasture
Not a change to base damage
wraith imp
use 200 as base damage (say i get dash attack power shot right)
artemis dash attack boon is multiplicative though right?
same for chaos dash attack boon right?
unreal pasture
Nope
ripe crane
no
ripe crane
Almost nothing is multiplicative
unreal pasture
Basically only critical strikes are multiplicative of modifiers
unreal pasture
Yarp
But the game is balanced around exactly that
Your damage would get explosive and uncontrollable if they all multiplied with each other
There's a damage formula on the wiki... I can pull it up for you
bronze viper
Okay, so you have things that modify base damage, and then everything else (you will see the word "base" or something like Triple Shot that just gives you +2 shots, so effectively x3). You add all of the additive modifiers to together:
e.g.
Privileged Status: 40
Heartbreak Strike: 80
Chaos Flourish: 60
Point Blank Shot: 150
40 + 80 + 60 +150 = 330
That's an effective 3.3x modifier
hollow lynx
it would still be a pretty chunky shot though
unreal pasture
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Damage_Calculation @wraith imp
wraith imp
Thanks. Will skim that.
bronze viper
Rama's damage scales multiplicatively with each enemy hit. So if you hit 2 Suffering enemies, they will each receive .6 of the attack damage they receive, so 1.2x additional damage each.
That multiplies with Crit as well
wraith imp
Rama's damage scales multiplicatively with each enemy hit. So if you hit 2 Suffering enemies, they will each receive .6 of the attack damage they receive, so 1.2x additional damage each.
@bronze viper
So...say i pull off non-boon powered shared suffering powershot against 3 exalted.
125 + 75 = 200.
so it'll be 125 + (75*3)?
bronze viper
Right.
wraith imp
I'm looking at the damage calculation page on wiki...
At the top it says... "Base Damage × (1 + Sum of Regular Damage Bonuses)"
Isn't this where artemis dash attack and chaos dash attack boon should be slotted?
bronze viper
yes
wraith imp
so it should be (for artemis dash attack for instance):
200 x (1 + 0.97)
and then chaos boon would also be 200 x (1 + 1.10)
but rather than multiplying...i should add, right?
394+420 = 814
bronze viper
so 125 * 1.6 * (1 + 0.97 + 1.10)
wraith imp
Ah, I see what one of the problems was...
I was doing 125 * 1.6 * ((1+0.97)+(1+1.10))
So that's what you all meant by additive (1 + 0.97 + 1.10)
Cool, cool...got that all cleared up now.
Thanks everyone.
bronze viper
Np
mossy zinc
You're welcome.
ripe crane
Running an Achilles cast build. Have the duo I want going into Elyseum. Don't particularly want any more boons. What keepsake do y'all like in this scenario?
mossy zinc
EM3 or no?
ripe crane
Yes
mossy zinc
Acorn.
ripe crane
hmmm ok
bronze viper
Acorn, Hourglass or Coinpurse
ripe crane
Usually I do the coinpurse. I undervalue hourglass I think
8 more rooms of healing sounds kinda nice
mossy zinc
Hourglass does a lot of work especially in cast builds.
Because they rely so much on ammo.
ripe crane
Oooh good point. There is no extra ammo or cast damage at this well or I may have done that
bronze viper
It's probably blasphemy, but I'm probably just going to stop recommending Smoldering Air on Chiron lol. It's just so unnecessary.
Not that I recommended it heavily before but I don't see much a reason at all anymore to go Heartbreak Flourish. Going Deadly + Lightning Strike for Clouded Judgment is very close already
Deadly or Heartbreak Strike + kind of whatever you want on Special, but you can use it primarily to spread Special and to qualify for Duo boons
wraith imp
You're welcome.
@mossy zinc
"I...uh...lo siento senora no hablo ingles."
/heuheuheuheuheu
bronze viper
So I like Deadly Strike + Drunken Flourish for Splitting Headache, or Deadly + Heartbreak for Heart Rend, or Heartbreak + Thunder for Smoldering Air
If you're new use the Wiki to help parse the words I'm saying :3
flat bear
The damage on Deadly Flourish vs Heartbreak Flourish feels very similar to me on Chiron, except Deadly has less utility
bronze viper
Deadly has Hunter's Instinct and Mark, both of which are excellent with lots of arrows.
flat bear
How does Hunter's Mark interact with Chiron?