Maybe Demeter's Aid over Ares' Aid? 
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
Artemis' Aid at least in the right build can do a ton of work.
bronze viper
They're in their special category of bad, the other calls actually perform consistent useful game actions
mossy zinc
Yeah, Demeter's Aid over Ares' Aid. At least it slows everything.
limber ocean
Aphrodite's Call is, uh, very situational. And it's definitely not good for cleaning room fast. And I can never properly aim it to charm the correct target.
bronze viper
It requires a bit of practice to use, but it mainly shines in bosses. Either use the boss to turn against the adds, or use it to buy several seconds. The charm will only last for a second or so, but then the boss will move around for a bit, then initiate another attack animation. In practice it's quite a lot of time.
mossy zinc
Charm a Chariot or Longspear and watch everything die lol.
limber ocean
Guess I need to learn how2aim.
mossy zinc
Just hug them lol.
bronze viper
Does Chain work on Sniper? (if it chains away from you do the chains get +200%)
daring hedge
i honestly have no clue. onyx tested this a while ago but i forgot what the results were
my choice of sniper shot was pretty much on a whim and probably a bad idea
bronze viper
Lol I haven't tried it on Rama yet. I know I was underwhelmed on Chiron, but I don't know if that's because of DC. You'd think it's be great on Chiron since you're incentivized to stay as far away as possible.
(I've gotten baited by the allure of Twin Shot so many times and got punished every time for taking it lol)
daring hedge
lol if i played chiron more i'm sure i would do the exact same thing honestly
from the moments where i could see the sniper shot marker, it was pretty unreasonably far, still
mossy zinc
Is it just me who can never tell Athena's Aid from Zeus' Aid in screenshots?
They're both yellow.
bronze viper
from the moments where i could see the sniper shot marker, it was pretty unreasonably far, still
@daring hedge And it's almost like 3 times bigger than pre-buff lmao
bronze viper
Could they not give the Bow like 20% more range to compensate? It'd work flavor wise too
daring hedge
that far?
bronze viper
Is it just me who can never tell Athena's Aid from Zeus' Aid in screenshots?
@mossy zinc I'm bad at telling Aphro and Dio apart too
mossy zinc
I attack a lot of off-screen enemies with Chiron, so Sniper Shot seems like a reasonable choice. Haven't had a chance to pick it up yet, though.
My Chiron opinions are relevant because I'm a former Chiron WR holder, right?
daring hedge
i have the same thing with athena and zeus call sometimes
bronze viper
25% less relevant
mossy zinc
bronze viper
I feel like they could have made Athena like, orange or something, and Dio more the color of actual wine.
mossy zinc
I knew it. I should have done 64 Heat with Heart Rend and 100% crit chance.
@bronze viper red? I don't know if that would have helped lol.
White wine maybe?
daring hedge
huh, looks... less ridiculous, looking back here, but while playing it felt unreasonable lol, which probably just says more about my bow playstyle
bronze viper
That range is very restrictive on Rama lol. It's nice on EM3 because it coincides with Asterius' shockwave but most things will be in your grill by the time you release + dash
mossy zinc
Not sure that looks reasonable with FO2 lol.
daring hedge
yeah exactly, this fight was one where i felt like i could actually make use of it
otherwise not so much
mossy zinc
If you want shared suffering procs, you're getting aggro from everything first with your Special.
So they're not staying at that range.
daring hedge
and absolutely useless in styx barring hades
bronze viper
Oh, gross, Styx with Sniper Shot lmao
mossy zinc
It should be much better with Chiron because your first shot is with Attack.
bronze viper
"Should be" without DC. It's a waste with it. You do get some juicy crits if you have Deadly Strike though
mossy zinc
Any good ideas for Poseidon Aspect 40+?
And is it just me, or does Stygius have a hammer problem? So many hammers just seem useless because they only affect normal Attacks.
Excalibur is the only one that really benefits from those.
If you don't get Double Edge on Nemesis, you kind of just play without a hammer lol.
bronze viper
Definitely not just you lol. It also hurts that none of the aspects care about the Special for damage
So all of those hammers are like... eh
I mean, Zag aspect cares, but that's because it's terrible
mossy zinc
Special CD is just way too much to spam it. Didn't the CD use to be much shorter?
Snap Nova was way better than Dash Nova. You could no-hit chambers so reliably without any Deflect. Kind of sad about that.
But I understand it made people motion sick, so it's better that it's gone.
random bough
i would guess Artemis cast + tempest flourish and mirage shot for Poseidon
random bough
It's kind of annoying that hunters mark doesn't count for the legendary
bronze viper
Lol, It's kind of annoying that Artemis' Legendary is not Hermes'
random bough
And pressure points does
Lol, It's kind of annoying that Artemis' Legendary is not Hermes'
True
bronze viper
Bad News is such a meme. Give me Fully Loaded
mossy zinc
True Shot average damage is on the low end on its own. So I dunno about that.
bronze viper
I don't play Poseidon much but I enjoyed Crush Shot when I did
Moderate AoE, has the range boon
random bough
Ig true shot will be pretty bad until you get hunters mark or something
Maybe crush shot + parting shot is better
bronze viper
Yeah it's the build I usually go for on Hera
urban grail
Just give me support fire
mossy zinc
But Hera has range.
random bough
Crush shot is definitely hard to use on FO2 without the range
mossy zinc
Hmm. Maybe I should take Pom Blossom or Butterfly or something and just take what I can get but make sure I get the damage on it with those keepsakes.
trim sigil
Seems fairly reasonable for a strat
maiden geode
we probably gotta let supergiant know about the stygius base attack problem
urban grail
I've never had any issues with it, I'm only on heat 5 tho so I guess it falls off at the higher levels?
trim sigil
The only reasonable attack method there is with non-arthur aspects is dash strikes, so, mmm
maiden geode
the other melee weapons have unique enough attacks that they're legitimate alternatives
fist attacks are pretty good at hit stunning and removing DC stacks
shield attacks, are well, nice and meaty
and the first spear attack comes out quick and has decent range, so it's good either instead of or in addition to dash-strike
daring hedge
i use it when hammers don't give me serrated point!
trim sigil
I use it constantly 
because i never see serrated point
mossy zinc
Wow, I detest White Lernie.
static plover
white Lernie listens to way to much metal music
mossy zinc
Waaay too much.
rocky mauve
w-which one is white?
rocky mauve
ah yes, the one that always spawns when I decide to use fists...
wanton plover
lernie is very cute
maiden geode
am I supposed to play with aim assist off on lucifer?
languid phoenix
Is upgrading Hera worth at all? Doesn't seem to do anything unless you're doing Exit Wounds
ruby cipher
It's at least worth upgrading for the ammo drop time
10 vs 5 sec is a lot
whole 5 secs worth of stuff
languid phoenix
yeah, I guess you have to use the 3 bloodstones instead of the recharging one
and then it is very worth
ruby cipher
say, you have that poseidon boon that makes you stronger for the first 10 secs of encounters
with no upgrade you'll be waiting 10 seconds and then lose your chance to use it
with upgraded hera you'll be waiting 5 seconds and then lose your chance to use it
the same goes for all those boons that give you some [damage] bonus that lasts 20 secs max
unreal pasture
The first 3 levels are pretty worth it... where it goes from 10->6.67s... but the next upgrades are kind of sus if you're tight on Titan's Blood
maiden geode
how does demeter cast interact with cast-loading weapons?
ruby cipher
Well, with hera it was pretty bad before 1.0, but after 1.0 I have not tried it
But with Beowulf it has a unique pulse when you end the charge, just like that demeter boon than triggers chill aoe when you cast. It showed potential unupgraded, but I ditched it because I couldn't see anything on impact and every time had to run away from the explosion only to then go back to pick up the bloodstones.
mossy zinc
Losing at 40 with Poseidon Aspect because all my bloodstones went out of bounds vs Hades is so much fun. 
ruby cipher
Funny how his bloodstones never go out of bounds huh
mossy zinc
All upgrade levels on any aspect are worth it if you're doing high heat. I don't really get the question there.
ruby cipher
wasn't exactly a high heat question
mossy zinc
Yeah, not really.
I was 100% mashing Call, too, but the urn trap hit me anyway. Very annoying.
Sword 40+ is so much work compared to something like Chiron lol.
Stressful.
Phalanx Shot was certainly my best attempt so far.
trim sigil
All upgrade levels on any aspect are worth it if you're doing high heat. I don't really get the question there.
Objection
Gilgamesh Maim
If the dash-upper is utilized then the run was majorly screwed up
mossy zinc
What's Gilgamesh?
Ohhh.
You mean GilgaMEsh.
The Aspect of Merciful End.
MElphon, the Twin Fists.
trim sigil
Yes
Although I prefer gilga-mesh, the mesh that appears from tidal dash
The aspect of ME is also quite good though, indeed
mossy zinc
Tildamesh.
trim sigil
Such ~, much mesh
lost otter
Ty @daring hedge "Kind of new to this aspect, haven't used it too much at high heat. And boy does high heat Excalibur make the pact feel more like a puzzle than ever before. inspired."
P.S.great compliment for a 30 year old "Boy" š¤£
maiden geode
so why is demeter so popular?
for ME builds?
seems like gilgamesh does it well too
maiden geode
yeah
craggy wolf
you could just go for zag fists for cheap upgrading
honest kernel
wait u call fists ME
lost otter
When next time die on EM4...Read this "obvious drawbacks" again
maiden geode
lol I already have talos upgraded
honest kernel
how do you max out an ME aspect then
craggy wolf
then that should work fine
maiden geode
alrighty
mossy zinc
Gilgamesh is probably optimal for ME but sucks until you get it. Demeter Aspect just works, either way.
maiden geode
how does curse of longing work with ME?
mossy zinc
Essentially not at all lol.
trim sigil
tbh even if it did, getting 2 duos is one hell of a task
mossy zinc
A bit of DOT on the rare mob that runs away or something.
maiden geode
I'm gonna get it anyway for prophecy lol
daring hedge
@lost otter boy is meant as a figure of speech there lol, as if to say "and wow"
bronze viper
Funny how his bloodstones never go out of bounds huh
@ruby cipher What? His do, literally all the time, and it's the worst lol. A lot of aspects can't kill them that far out into the lake.
hollow lynx
just realized hades is a stygian soul gamer
bronze viper
Skull skull stab
edgy arrow
if he is, heās pretty bad at it
hollow lynx
have you ever seen him pick up a cast
twilit orbit
how are you supposed to play with merciful end? doom on attack reflect on dash?
bronze viper
Yes
twilit orbit
i've never done it but that would be what would make sense to me
bronze viper
You just dash strike... Always
hollow lynx
yes, but you need a separate athena core to qualify
edgy arrow
well, specifically you need divine flourish
not just any athena core
or divine strike if your doom source is curse of pain ofc
hollow lynx
cast doesn't qualify?
bronze viper
I believe the intent was that since with Malphon, you are pretty heavily incentivized to Curse of Agony into Divine Dash, you shouldn't be so much more rewarded for doing what you would do anyway. I don't know if that's justified, but yeah.
Probably not, considering that Deadly Reversal and Heart Rend are much the same way, but they're not nearly as broken
edgy arrow
oh yeah it was for sure a nerf, i just meant it was kind of a weird nerf since the top end of ME builds is still basically in the same place
itās just harder to get them now
mossy zinc
Whyyyy is Speeder + Savior still a thing.
trim sigil
Availability of a duo boon is imho a fair balance method
You have to actually put consideration in what T1 boons are what, instead of slapping dash and getting ME from any doom
edgy arrow
i donāt disagree
although it still kinda baffles me that the doom combo damage thing is still there, if (slightly) reduced
like, why
itās completely unnecessary lol
trim sigil
yeah that one idk about lmao
One would have thought cutting doom timer from 1.1/1.6 seconds to as low as 0.1s is good enough
edgy arrow
okay thinking about this, my guess is that the combo damage is to make it more appealing to new players
if youāre new to the game, it might not be clear how bonkers ME is (i know it wasnāt for me) so maybe theyāre putting extra damage on there so people give it a chance?
idk thatās all i can come up with
trim sigil
Freezing Vortex seems to rather counteract that
From first view, Chill on cast but lower size? Ew
edgy arrow
honestly i still donāt really like freezing vortex
guess iām still on the first view lol
random bough
Whyyyy is Speeder + Savior still a thing.
Why is savior still a thing
edgy arrow
touchƩ
trim sigil
It's purpose is probably to synergize with vicious cycle since it doesn't move and slows foes
Not that I tried it either lol
trim sigil
Yeah hunting blades, knew you'd say that
edgy arrow
lol
trim sigil
well duh hunting blades is -33% duration duh 
Either way currently hating ares so far, his features are pretty clunky or hard scale
Although occasional doom on secondary type of attacks feels nice
Like chiron bow
edgy arrow
oh, that makes more sense lol
daring hedge
Ultimate dire misfortune gimmick build with doom special chiron
hollow lynx
rama can do it better š¤§
daring hedge
So true lol
trim sigil
Is there anything rama does worse 
hollow lynx
rama can't do bomb arrows š
daring hedge
@hollow lynx i think you'll get a kick out of this rama 51 that's going up later
it may or may not have ended up with chain shot and sniper shot
daring hedge
i think my choice of sniper was super questionable either way but i definitely had flashbacks to your test when the choice was presented
daring hedge
it's still... awkward, like
daring hedge
chiron arrow customization, just put a separate boon on every single one
except there's no point because alternating doom and deflect would be the best by far
hollow lynx
i like how the range indicator wasn't adjusted for rama's aiming zone
daring hedge
yeah lol
hollow lynx
did you get chain before sniper?
edgy arrow
lmao
hollow lynx
if it chains into sniper range, did it work
mossy zinc
Tailesque did 51 Rama with Sniper Shot, so that means Sniper Shot is the best hammer.
hollow lynx
that was my test and i'm pretty sure it worked out, but i wasn't absolutely sure
daring hedge
yeah while playing i couldn't notice it working myself, but maybe it was
might be more obvious upon watching the recording, not sure
but probably not because they're likely all happening offscreen
hollow lynx
the addition of both point-blank and sniper shot implies that there will be a mid-range shot hammer in the future
daring hedge
the average shot update 
mossy zinc
Lol SD and 2 DDs gone in one chamber of Elite Chariots and Slugger Savior Strongbows.
daring hedge
Relatable lol
bronze viper
My favorite is going into Elysium with 130 health and 2 DDs. Time to cry.
rocky mauve
Just started using rama, what are some good setups for it? Right now i'm trying to build deadly strike, drunken flourish and the art/dio boon
mossy zinc
Yeah, that.
rocky mauve
Oh, nice
bronze viper
Heartbreak Strike/Thunder Flourish + Smoldering Air works too. I've tried Heartbreak Strike/Curse of Pain for Curse of Longing but I never actually got the duo. Should've been pretty good in theory though.
mossy zinc
The amount of times I need to pause in Asphodel and still can't see where my bloodstones are is ridiculous lol.
bronze viper
(I have no idea how people play Zeus on Achilles aspect)
Just casually zooming around the map looking for my DPS
mossy zinc
Put a million poms on it, supposedly.
Not a great strategy for high heat.
I gave up on Electric Shot for Poseidon 40 after the first run lol.
bronze viper
Omg, same with Achilles lol. I got to Asphodel, did 2 rooms, and just mentally noped. So hard
5 or so times of putting my spear on land, double dashing to get my random bloodstone in a corner then recalling back later...
lost otter
only what i can say. i love Stygian Soul)
bronze viper
I take Stygian now on Achilles if I start Demeter.
I don't know if it's better, but I haven't done above 20 yet so I can do whatever I want lol.
lost otter
i dont take SS only with poseidons sword
bronze viper
I know, but I take Stygian never, which is why I mentioned that exception
mossy zinc
Best cast for me at high heat has been Phalanx Shot so far.
Lightning Phalanx removes the acceleration from it. Kinda sucks for FO2 lol.
Not sure I would take that Duo again.
lost otter
I know, but I take Stygian never, which is why I mentioned that exception
@bronze viper Probably becaus you all time take TD. and wana burst room. when i dont take TD an prefer more sustain damage and carefull game play.Running to bloodshard can hurts
maiden geode
I would like to do a half decent run on stygian soul
worthy patrol
maiden geode
Need it for prophecies
ripe crane
I'm too bad at this game for high heat 4LC/Stubborn defiance :( . Is there a way to, like, improve somehow?
maiden geode
Git gud
lost otter
i dont know what mean 4LC
ripe crane
Lasting consequences 4
lost otter
i dont even know what this do)
ripe crane
No healing
ripe crane
Only 32 š
lost otter
why you take 4LC?
ripe crane
Just felt like trying it out
ripe crane
Hmmm okay I will try it that way, ty
lost otter
just math man. -50% healing or 40% damage what you can avoid
maiden geode
LC4 is hard lol
ripe crane
Well, I have seen people do LC4 and stubborn defiance successfully but I'm not there yet skill wise :p
lost otter
LC4 is hard lol
@maiden geode Im play with DD. not tricky SD
lost otter
Adk. i play all time with Hl5 EM4 Fo2 CP2 and -50% healing
and with DD
for me easy 32 looks .....some thing like this
bronze viper
It's a necessary evil in 50 heat
@maiden geode Lol, that's 6 people. I'd say it becomes an actively positive boon around 40
Don't look at it like a downside, look at it as a tradeoff. You can make a ton of mistakes in each room, but you have to grind out the bosses to make sure you've got them mechanically down.
lost otter
My variation of 32...easy to build. to handle speed. traps dont kill you. hades not so hard and fast.Pots dont do much damage.time limit Huge.
maiden geode
I like TD2 a lot
lost otter
and you easy can buy back DD,and easy can buy any from charon. (healing,poms,boons)
maiden geode
If you're on one of them speedy gonzales tons of damage weapons like eris even TD3 is doable
lost otter
any weapon can easy do my 32 heat. problems...can be probably only on...beo.or move 2-3 point to more comfort.
bronze viper
I wouldn't say "any weapon," I know you use exclusively Excalibur but I'd rather take literally anything other than DC on it, Hestia, and Zag bow
lost otter
Im not exlusively artur)
on bows i just use special) on hestia i use special zeus or dio
i just dont go MUCH another weapons. becaus its feels alote easy then Artur or claws.
mossy zinc
These Wretched Thug trials in Tartarus are really getting annoying.
bronze viper
LOL
ripe crane
What, you don't wanna shotgun ?
bronze viper
Not very often I see an AP1 rip from hammers
lost otter
What, you don't wanna shotgun
@ripe crane Poseidon dash +Spread fire š¤£ š¤£ š¤£ š¤£ š¤£ š¤£ looks.....i dont know words in english)
bronze viper
Dang, I really have to mentally adjust. I'm so unused to Dad's strike strike spear throw combo. I keep dashing to the side to dodge the spin and just eating it
lost otter
With out 3 dash ..... its hard man on melee EM4. i dont see you weapons. But even with FO1 EM4 Hades do great swings and throws.
and hades bastard. sneaky lasers under cerberus call
daring hedge
@bronze viper literally went into the daedalus room thinking "it's not like it'll brick my run, I'm sure I'll get something decent or something that isn't a hinderance"
lost otter
you wanna avoid meteors...and hades start do full screen lasers.
bronze viper
I'm on Chiron, so it's not a huge deal. Obviously it'd be easier with 3 dashes, but it's most that my muscle memory wants to commit to an attack once I see him do the second strike.
lost otter
and Hades can trown spear 4 times in a row. its max what i seen
mossy zinc
mossy zinc
mossy zinc
I reeeeally don't like that skulls don't disappear anymore when you Deflect them.
I'd rather have had more ways to deal with them like that than fewer.
lost otter
Im on ahillies spear 40 rigth now)waha do it on all melee weapons)
lost otter
yup
chrome bramble
because it tried that earlier and it feels so bad to me
lost otter
and i have build for it
lost otter
Ahhh.achilles spear so fast and mobile š„°
terse jungle
i got so far with heat 32 only to die the dumbest way fighting the last boss
i feel robbed and the boss hacked
ah well gg go next
lost otter
First time have Bad news legendary
daring hedge
which cast boon are you running currently?
lost otter
poseidons cast
bold estuary
guys have you seen that unseeded 51 heat run, wth that was crazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzzclNVlaks
mossy zinc
Right, @daring hedge, have you seen it?
daring hedge
why would this dude take sniper shot smh
mossy zinc
Sniper Shot is the best Rama hammer. It's what won 51 Heat.
bronze viper
I keep wanting to do unseeded, but then I keep finding AP2 Rama seeds
And it feels like a waste lol
mossy zinc
I've always liked unseeded more, so I'm happy about it.
What annoys me is that the first run is never considered legit for unseeded.
Since you need to die first.
hollow lynx
ew snipper shoot
mossy zinc
How can you say that? It's #1.
bold estuary
@daring hedge wait, was it your run ? damn gratz dude, why did you pick Dusa companion and why Aphrodite "Empty Inside" boon instead of "Broken Resolve" ?
mossy zinc
I feel like this run is not good because it's less than 52, so I don't want to watch it.
Are there any barrel rolls?
daring hedge
thanks! dusa companion was one part because i just forgot to switch to battie after using fidi to fill the codex, and another part convenient to get extra damage on the furies in case of TD3 woes
lost otter
Its pain when you must sell lvl 4 special.... becaus another offering to sell. its cast or duo for this cast
terse jungle
why do they pause the game so often?
daring hedge
empty inside was picked just so any time i would use crush shot, the weak would stay for a while longer
mossy zinc
Because of TD.
terse jungle
TD?
hollow lynx
tail had snoper shot but didn't go for em4 smh my head
mossy zinc
Tight Deadline.
terse jungle
ah i see
mossy zinc
There's a list of pact initialisms pinned in this channel.
terse jungle
so they have more time to pick a room i guess
ripe crane
Pausing the game makes the timer stop, good for when you need to make decisions
lost otter
There's a list of pact initialisms pinned in this channel.
@mossy zinc TY! i now know english names of pact!!!
And they in same order like in game?
mossy zinc
Yes.
lost otter
Realy sweet
terse jungle
its always amazing to see people get so insanely good at a game
bold estuary
is there any difference doing high heat runs with Hell mode compare to normal ?
bronze viper
+1 Heat from Personal Liability, and forced usage of HL1, LC1, JS1, CP1
The JS1 and CP1 hurt for a lot of builds, and PL is limited but pretty dangeous for melee builds
bronze viper
I would kill to get access to PL for Chiron though lol
bold estuary
i see, so could it possibly means that certains build/runs can be easier in normal mode then ?
bright raptor
I think most people run on normal since you get more flexibility
bronze viper
(no, a lot of people run on normal because they didn't want to do the entire unlocking grind twice lol)
hollow lynx
i enjoy that the max possible heat is 64, double of 32
mossy zinc
Yeah, what @bronze viper said lol.
bright raptor
That's fair
bronze viper
As I mentioned before, PL is next to free on aspects like Chaos, Chiron and Hestia, and they'd be really glad to get +1 heat where they can.
mossy zinc
Hestia doesn't want JS CP, though.
bronze viper
I mean, no one WANTS them, but it can deal with 1 rank of each.
I guess Eris wants JS3 lol. More gold!
mossy zinc
Yeah.
bold estuary
damn it gets really impressive, what do you think is the highest possible heat run as of now ? 51 looked bonkers already
bronze viper
For Rama I think the highest I can see it doing at the moment is 56
WIth Ri2, and TD2
lost otter
im realy angry. i sell duo demeter + poseidon and epic special lvl 5.....becaus choose
bronze viper
I think the speedrunning discord is working on routing for 63 (even they don't have a hell mode save lmao), but I do not know on what aspect or what build they intend to do it on
lost otter
How looks dumb mistakes. EM4 FO2 hello dad...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/764819599711272960/766416576483688468/unknown.png
bold estuary
are you guys all playing with a controller or kb/m too ? is there a overall better option ?
lost otter
Im KMB player
hollow lynx
@daring hedge i noticed that chain shot can target dusa
have you tried hitting dusa intentionally to capitalize on the +15% dmg per ricochet
bronze viper
@hollow lynx I was told you may know the interaction between Chain Shot and Sniper Shot? If it chains away do you get the 200%?
lost otter
REaly intresting question)
hollow lynx
i'm not absolutely sure, but if it chains into sniper shot's range it'll get the sniper bonus
at least, that's how i thought my test turned out
i'm watching tail's footage rn, but it's kinda hard to see in the midst of all the gameplay
ripe crane
Skelly tanks more damage than I expected him to. Is he ever used in high heat?
hollow lynx
he can be a great tool to get the heat off your back, yeah
but some of the best times to use him are also the most useless: speeder slugger chariots just gashing through him like butter
in the end i just prefer battie, ultimately i find it more consistent and useful
bronze viper
Skelly was popular for a little bit in Blood Price. I don't think he does quite enough against the bosses though
Or Chariots
rigid moon
well im in elysium, Rama Bow -> Explosive shot -> Shackle with Dio special
i seriously hope im getting the 40 pct bonus on atk
16 heat double trash can :/
daring hedge
@hollow lynx i hadn't even considered that but that's hilarious
dusa is a conduit for more damage
hollow lynx
yeah lol i always do that with hades skulls
i always aim for the lowest hp enemy with chain shot so the bonus damage doesnāt get wasted
daring hedge
oh yeah, i sorta tried at some points during the hades fight when i kept it in mind
hollow lynx
zag, constantly aiming for dusa:
dusa: uhhh am i helping, prince?
gilded tundra
does higher Jury Summons allow for more gold in a run?
elder minnow
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/197022718309171201/766433214981996564/unknown.png
my first 32 heat done!
atomic junco
Gg !
elder minnow
enetring styx I had to sell one of my main boons: had a choice between Heart rend, Dash and attack
luckily got an attack back in the first room of styx
was a gable
not very nice one
bronze viper
Lol, I think I would have gotten rid of Heart Rend, honestly. You got lucky, but Deadly Flourish + Concetrated Volley + Relentless Volley is way more than enough damage. I would have preferred to keep the Weak.
terse jungle
how do yall do your 32 heat runs so fast omg
my last attempt it took me an hour lmao
terse jungle
i like to take my time and get comfortable before i attack haha
especially knowing that making mistakes cost you
bronze viper
WIth that mentality, the less time a run is, the less chance for mistakes you have too. Also consider that taking 3/6 heat for TD2 or TD3 lets you reduce the heat of your run by the same amount
bronze viper
A good goal to reach would be to make sure you can always reach TD2. It's a mechanics check. If you're doing things reasonably efficiently and if your build functions, you should hit TD2 without a sweat
terse jungle
i do pretty well on like 16 heat and stuff, but something about 32 heat makes me sweaty
terse jungle
i bet 32 heat skelly statue is the best one
trim sigil
Yes and no
wanton plover
8 is the best
wanton plover
:roo4:
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/757245687107944509/766435298351382528/unknown.png Reached a new heat record š
bronze viper
NIce!!
Always glad to see more people in the 40+ family. You should consider recording so we can put you on the leaderboard
wanton plover
nice that is also my record 41
bronze viper
Anything 40+ is accepted.
north dove
I would record but OBS makes my frame rate horrible :/
trim sigil
Hera beyblade build, oh my
north dove
also yeah this was a fun one
grave prawn
does the little tag line under victory mean anything? the "middle-management cutter"
elder minnow
Anything 40+ is accepted.
@bronze viper
what other things are accepted?
something like 15+ heat in less then 15 minutes?
bronze viper
Yeah, they all do, it's just not like... recorded anywhere lol
wanton plover
he beat a bunch of minibosses
elder minnow
does the little tag line under victory mean anything? the "middle-management cutter"
@grave prawn
yeah they do,
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Run_Clear_Messages
bronze viper
You'd have to check with the speedrunning discord for stuff like that, I have no idea. I know the way that submission breakpoints work between the communities, it's considerably easier to qualify for their leaderboard than ours (holy god we're trying to get it changed but the speedrun.com breakpoint is 50 heat lmao, gtfo out of here with that, there are literally 6 people who have ever done it)
Our discord leaderboard though is 40+. We're trying to get the speedrun.com set to 45
elder minnow
I've just done my first 32 today, but guess will try 40+ at some point
wanton plover
yes record it
bronze viper
(Some rules. For unseeded runs, make sure the recording contains your death/victory of the previous run. To post recorded runs, post a youtube link to #self-promotion and tag @autumn sable, who will verify and upload the video at his leisure)
elder minnow
thanks for info
lost otter
Can i ask?How you create i gif?
daring hedge
oh yeah, i'm just using an app called screentogif, where you can record a part of your screen and convert it to a gif
it's free to download
bold estuary
guys, overall what is better for aspect of chiron runs: Artemis Special or Zeus special ?
daring hedge
artemis because of thunder flourish's internal bolt cooldown of 200ms
since chiron's volley arrows hit in such quick succession, you don't get bolts for all your arrows
bold estuary
oh ok, but isnt it better for aoe though ? for faster normal rooms clears i mean ?
wanton plover
still art special kekw and pray for good hanmer
if you can help it dont add any jury summons
bronze viper
oh ok, but isnt it better for aoe though ? for faster normal rooms clears i mean ?
@bold estuary yeah, this does work more or less for lower heats but Chiron is insanely worse than Rama at this strategy.
twilit orbit
i like aphrodite special on chiron because it does good damage and counts as status
but artemis has the big big numbers
i assume the best dps you can get on chiron is artemis special + aphro attack + a second status on your dash or cast
and then you fish for heart rend
wanton plover
yes i also brush against the deadline a lot in floor 1
wanton plover
yes same as any heat kekw just aph or art attack and athena dash
lost otter
anyone recommending a Heat 16-32 Excalibur Build?
@rigid moon Athena attack,some were artemis for Duo DR. and add aphro or demeter in build for more surviving.And hammer up of aura radius must have. i beat HL5CL2FO2 EM4 with it not one time.If still hard gear up ahillies bracers.
fair trout
is it worth it to try for heat 50 runs?
i feel like it might be pretty fun but could also imagine it being frustrating
lost otter
prapair your self to many deads if you wana beat 50
bronze viper
but artemis has the big big numbers
@twilit orbit Another advantage of Deadly Flourish I've come to appreciate more is Chiron's synergy with Hunter's Mark. It is trivially easy to maintain Hunter's Mark basically on an entire screen.
wraith imp
wait...did tiny vermin's health get nerfed?
thanatos just 1 shotted him after i hit it with athena's special and applied exposed...
hmmm....
and when i fought asterius, i did the same strategy and it chunked the heck out of asterius in mini-boss room.
north dove
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/599449585710006288/766489291954061332/unknown.png Another 41 heat win, actually recorded it this time
lost otter
Gz
north dove
Thanks
lost otter
Nothing personal. im still have opinion shield =>OP. even after no natural deflect.my last run was with beo. hades can hit me only 2 times. but my time 5am and i wana sleep. Block mechanic super strong.
wraith imp
block is one of the best abilities in the game and it's awesome on shield
short estuary
if i jump from 1 heat to 5 heat... do i get the benefits from the lower heats?
like titan bloods, diamonds
slow cypress
You can do 5 heat 4 times I believe to get all benefits
wanton plover
you do not get the extra bounties for heat jump
if you already did heat 1 and jump to 5, youll get bounty for heat 2
short estuary
aw thats a shame... i will just do it slowly i guess
trim sigil
20 runs, one at a time, indeed
dry flame
i just failed a 59 heat run with the arthur sword
bro i just run out of time
u do insane amount of dmg but clear speed is too slow for the timer
ripe crane
Not to brag, but I could also fail a 59 heat run with the arthur sword
thorny coral
Yeah, that sword is just so slow, which makes zooming difficult
bronze viper
@daring hedge Have you given serious consideration to EM4 with Rama yet? I am... struggling lol. Twin Shot is almost a liability in that fight.
I mean, it is a liability. I say "almost" because obv it doubles your damage >_>
thorny coral
I see Iāve found the other MTG player here
bronze viper
I mean... I do
loud coral
Can't you pair Twin Shot with Point-Blank shot? Seems kinda busted tbh
hollow lynx
every time i watch a tail run i flinch whenever he doesn't dash after a hades combo, cause i'm always expecting a spear throw from playing em4 too much
bronze viper
I didn't come up with my name from the card though lol.
ripe crane
I was going to ask tbh
thorny coral
Look I just thought the name was neat, Iāve yet to actually cast the card
thanks 12-yo me
bronze viper
Can't you pair Twin Shot with Point-Blank shot? Seems kinda busted tbh
@loud coral The issue is, you really really do not want to be that close to Dad in EM4. Also several of his summons are very unkind to melee range tomfooleries
hollow lynx
Can't you pair Twin Shot with Point-Blank shot? Seems kinda busted tbh
it works better with triple š
thorny coral
(Srry for that detour)
hollow lynx
jk it's even more unsafe with triple, but that damage is wow
ripe crane
Blighting is fun to cast. Now it comes attached to a 6/6 tho
hollow lynx
if i had to guess, zeus special spam is probably the way to go for high heat em4
bronze viper
I suggested a while back that Tailesque give up on EM4 while he pushes heat, and he took me advice. Now I'm trying to see if I can weasel around that advice and I'm coming up short lol. This fight is cruel. and there are a few auto loss states. Rama can't even deal with 1 Sneak, better yet 2
loud coral
The issue is, you really really do not want to be that close to Dad in EM4. Also several of his summons are very unkind to melee range tomfooleries
True, I guess bow's a ranged weapon for a reason
hollow lynx
there's only two tactics a real warrior needs: frontal assault, and death by frontal assault
mossy zinc
and there are a few auto loss states. Rama can't even deal with 1 Sneak, better yet 2
Are there no summons that can take care of them?
I used Skelly for 52 with Beowulf just to handle the summon phase.
bronze viper
EM4 minibosses? No, summons barely even make a dent. Thicc boys
mossy zinc
They don't need to die, necessarily. They just need to not kill you long enough to push Hades into the next phase.
Hmm. I guess Skelly takes full damage from Shared Suffering, so that would be useless.
He does, right?
bronze viper
Yeah, fair. Problem is, Skelly only helps with 1 of the 5 (are there more?) summons. Megagorgon, Soul Catcher, Skullcrusher, and Voidstone don't even interact with Skelly. Well, Skullcrusher does... for like a couple of hits.
mossy zinc
Hm? The Power Couple always goes after Skelly.
Hmm.
Have you tried getting 100% crit chance to kill things quickly?
I've tried it once, and it was super effective. 
bronze viper
Skullcrusher isn't really a big deal though. Soul Catchers, Voidstone, and Sneak with Twin Shot are brutal though.
Doomstone*
mossy zinc
A good goal to reach would be to make sure you can always reach TD2. It's a mechanics check.
Or sometimes, it's just a BP2 RNG check.
I had a Temple of Styx chamber yesterday that took 3 or 4 minutes.
wanton plover
was it tiny vermin
mossy zinc
No, Tiny Vermin was in the next tunnel lol.
bronze viper
Probably Shifter Speeder Snakestones lol
mossy zinc
And died a lot faster.
bronze viper
Or Bruiser Shifter something
daring hedge
@bronze viper funny you mention that because i'm attempting EM4 runs right now with it lol
and just had a perfect build ruined by 4sack
loud coral
Man Styx's minibosses are really hard, usually if I don't have a good cast or call then I'm pretty much screwed in that biome
daring hedge
but usually twin shot is worth it for me personally just to burn down hades faster, i think
bronze viper
It's funny, the more you play, the more you start taking miniboss rooms because they aren't JSx CPx DCx BP2 FO2 HL5 normal chambers
mossy zinc
Speeder Bothers and Elite Giant Rats and I think some Snakestones or something.
wanton plover
miniboss rooms are easier in styx
mossy zinc
But mostly just way too many Speeder Bothers. I couldn't attack because anywhere I stepped were mines lol.
loud coral
The Satyrs are hell, honestly EM4 is easier than a pack of them since you at least have an open battle area
mossy zinc
I don't mind Satyrs.
bronze viper
That's a bold statement. They give you a clear audio cue before they spit
It's a huge time window
mossy zinc
Probably the easiest enemies in the Temple after Vermin.
The particularly tiny kind excluded, of course.
bronze viper
Whereas you need clairvoyance to predict if Dad is going to do a spear stab in melee range lol
daring hedge
i had twin+chain, which i have a feeling will be one of the better combos for high heat EM4
just to help with adds and snowball shared suffering more
loud coral
Guess I just suck with those guys then, personally the enclosed area makes me get hit by them a lot more
mossy zinc
miniboss rooms are easier in styx
I don't know if I agree with that.
bronze viper
I'm starting to appreciate Chain Shot more, it smooths out TD3 significantly too
vague birch
any advice before i go into attempting a 32 heat win?
bronze viper
Don't die
vague birch
thanks
mossy zinc
What aspect?
daring hedge
absolutely, it's moving up the list for rama hammers i look out for
vague birch
im thinking either chiron or nemesis
daring hedge
under twin shot at the top of course
vague birch
since theyre the aspects im best with
bronze viper
I still value Relentless + Hangover for giving you multiple minutes of time in the first two biomes, but it has next to no application against EM4, sadly. And you don't really want it as a second hammer because at that point it's already fallen off
loud coral
Chiron's really solid, Artemis or Ares w/stackable doom does wonders with the special
mossy zinc
Curse of Pain on Chiron?
loud coral
If you've got Dire Misfortune and Impending Doom you can easily hit 1k doom, though Artemis might still be better
daring hedge
shifter speeder skulls in erebus lmao
twilit orbit
i think the best for chiron is aphrodite or artemis
daring hedge
love to have a numbskull already in the middle of an attack animation show up in front of my face
mossy zinc
@bronze viper you would need Divine Strike first to unlock Merciful End.
bronze viper
No, I meant would Athena's Aid continuously trigger ME?
bronze viper
Someone go to the meme lab, this sounds legit lol. Relentless Volley + Swift Flourish + Curse of Pain
mossy zinc
No idea.
twilit orbit
i feel like killing things without athenas aid sounds awful
mossy zinc
@daring hedge I had +68% enemies yesterday for 3 encounters, and every chamber after that was Numbskulls lol.
hollow lynx
brb downloading the codex mod so i can just test things without going through the motions of playing the game
loud coral
Still insane just how hard Asterius and Hydra (to a lesser extent) are with FO2, it's basically a bullet hell with melee attacks
At this point I'm just gonna always take Frost Strike so I don't get obliterated
bronze viper
It's a joy when there are 3 White Lernies that spawn on one island
shrewd path
is artemis still the pick after the patch for aspect of chiron, or did zeus overtake
bronze viper
Zeus was never in the running
Thunder Flourish will only proc once or maybe twice on weird trajectories
hollow lynx
trim sigil
Drunken Flourish is both insane and underwhelming on chiron for some reason
Maybe that you are left with little damage if the enemy survives initial attack + stack of hangover
hollow lynx
i mean
bronze viper
Idk about insane lol. It's a lot of work for 5 stacks on a single target
trim sigil
Idk about insane lol. It's a lot of work for 5 stacks on a single target
1 special is not a lot of work lol
well, 1 attack + 1 special, alright
And yes, maybe putting focus on attack and just slapping dio on special for cc is good enough
bronze viper
Compared to Eris, Rama it's a decent amount of work. Probably roughly the same as Chaos.
trim sigil
Eris definitely takes longer, albeit also does a lot more because Eris
bronze viper
The issue is mostly that you're sacrificing the majority of your damage potential to apply a status curse. If you try the same build with Rama you're not giving up anything. Eris gives you like double hangover damage.
trim sigil
Rama can agree
Tbh while Eris is better at hangover, you could also go for lightning instead
bronze viper
Tbh the same could be said for any Hangover build with something lol
trim sigil
I mean, when you meet aggressive cooldown on zeus you can take hangover instead
which is what chiron is
bronze viper
Feels kind of gross to use an 80 damage base attack to apply Hangover lol.
(RIP 105)
daring hedge
well, lost to 54 EM4 hades with him at like
trim sigil
It's like, 24/56 dmg, isn't it it?
daring hedge
10% health left phase 3
mossy zinc
10% in phase 3 is as good at dying to Numbskulls in Tartarus.
trim sigil
Welp, that hurts
daring hedge
it hurts a lot
hollow lynx
next time chief
trim sigil
10% in phase 3 is as good at dying to Numbskulls in Tartarus.
it's worse because spent half an hour more on thay
wanton plover
rama experts do you like explosive shot
mossy zinc
Indeed. What a waste of time.
@daring hedge you'll get him!
You probably forgot to do a barrel roll.
hollow lynx
tail u forgot to take sniper shot, obvs
daring hedge
lmao
edgy arrow
#optimal
hollow lynx
daring hedge
the hardest (or most annoying part) is honestly just TD3 with this. if i can get twin shot in tartarus, i can usually get it to be smooth sailing aside from stuff like not getting pat/fountains/awful BP2 endless waves
twin shot with an okay second hammer makes EM4 go by fast, but there's still obviously just the huge damage he does, and the summons
oh gods the summons
mossy zinc
Yeah, I don't like taking TD3 for high heat.
bronze viper
rama experts do you like explosive shot
@wanton plover It's okay if you have Deadly Strike specifically, so you can leverage the bonus damage.
Yeah lol, high heat walls for me are Tartarus TD3 and phase 1 EM4
Then usually TD3 phase 3
hollow lynx
i propose TD2.5
daring hedge
getting 3/4/5sacked
bronze viper
That's always been the case
daring hedge
not saying it hasn't
bronze viper
I wonder if we should make the 2/3sack mod canonical
daring hedge
still a terrible high heat wall
hollow lynx
TD2.75 
mossy zinc
I have no interest in mods.
bronze viper
Surely that should be how we decide all matters
mossy zinc
Proposing mods as the standard in a discussion on the devs' server is kinda eh.
bronze viper
If we can universally agree that it is stupid and pointless to lose a run from a 4+ sack, why bother even having that possibility available.
edgy arrow
maybe TD3 should disable 4 sacks
bronze viper
I've been in a million gaming communities where a community mod has been accepted into the fold of the main game because it was so well received
mossy zinc
You can still beat the game just fine at high heat with a 4-sack or 5-sack on a lot of runs.
bronze viper
I think that's just patently untrue with TD3
mossy zinc
Then don't take TD3.
trim sigil
Don't take TD3, don't take AP2, don't take BP2, don't take UC, don't take RI, and then you would end up in #decently-warm-strategies
mossy zinc
I find the idea of taking a very difficult pact for +3 Heat and then using a mod to solve it utterly silly. It's on the level of playing Hell Mode for +1 Heat and using a mod to give you the normal invulnerability back because sometimes you get stunlocked to death and that's lame.
trim sigil
The mod is definitely not a solution to that
bronze viper
I think a pact existing that implicitly creates a fail state from a normal circumstance that the game could just generate without your input is a terrible idea. Sue me.
trim sigil
But neither is ignoring an inconvenience in design that is solely RNG
bronze viper
The same argument could be applied to AP2
mossy zinc
If you don't like TD3, don't take it. If you want to use a mod and then claim you beat TD3, go ahead.
ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
bronze viper
But it's fine. Just don't take it
mossy zinc
Yes, exactly.
bronze viper
š«
trim sigil
~~shall we make survival rooms come back at TD btw? Because that's against the spirit ~~
mossy zinc
It's an option you don't have to take. It's perfectly fine with certain pact combos.
@trim sigil no, you shouldn't. You're not a Hades developer.
Giving feedback to the devs and changing the game yourself are very different things.
trim sigil
I didn't specify the method which would return them, mind you
Persuading the devs does count as one of them
loud coral
I mean imagine losing a run because the game decided to give you a survival room
bronze viper
You don't really have to imagine it lol, that's basically what additional sack rooms do.
loud coral
Losing a run because "here's a survival room lmao" is way worse than losing a run because you messed up on a boss
Especially with TD3 where you're normally always gonna finish a biome with less than a minute left
mossy zinc
Only really once you add stuff like JS CP etc.
loud coral
Though on TD1 and maybe TD2, you can probably make it with one or two survival rooms per biome
mossy zinc
You should have about 2 minutes left with TD3 after Tartarus if you don't play with JS CP DC.
edgy arrow
i mean, you should have 2 minutes lol
loud coral
Massive brain strats: TD3 with JS CP DC and Aspect of Arthur
bronze viper
Or if you don't elect to take Troves, Erebus rooms, or Trials
Trials can take... quite a long time in 1.0
edgy arrow
make sure you also take EM4 for maximum pain strats
mossy zinc
Tartarus trials with Thugs can be quite annoying at the moment.
bronze viper
I had one with Numbskulls today that took an eternity
mossy zinc
Tartarus Thanatos encounters with Thugs also seem kinda silly lol.
i should have roughly 1 if i donāt mess up
That just means there's a lot of room for improvement, then.
I should work at my speed myself, actually.
edgy arrow
youāre not wrong
i am an order of magnitude faster than i used to be, which is still very slow lmao
metaphorically an order of magnitude
i didnāt actually used to take like, 200 mins to do a run or whatever
mossy zinc
There are a few things like you don't want to skip shops, but you also want to make sure you can actually get something out of the shops you enter to speed things up afterwards.
Although at high heat, sometimes skipping shops for a good boon or whatever is fine.
edgy arrow
yeah i know about shops and stuff, i think my micro is just bad
mossy zinc
We're not aiming for speed, after all. Speed is just a means to an end.
bronze viper
With TD3 that's never really actually an option though. Shops or die.
mossy zinc
Hm? Maybe if you max JS etc. depending on aspect.
edgy arrow
okay in terms of minimising TD, am i better off taking less JS or less CP?
itās probably aspect dependant i guess
mossy zinc
Depends on build and aspect in my experience, yeah.
edgy arrow
just wondering if thereās a general rule
trim sigil
If it has aoe it probably is better against JS
mossy zinc
I think JS is faster for most because most aspects can do AOE in some way.
And CP adds a lot of health to bosses.
CP1 can be almost free for some aspects. CP2 not really.
edgy arrow
yeah i thought that might be the case
loud coral
Lower JS is barely even noticeable most of the time, and you'll usually have enough damage for CP to not be as big of a deal
mossy zinc
If you take 3 hits to kill with CP0 and 3 hits to kill with CP1, there's no effective difference.
edgy arrow
JS rooms just seem to feel longer to me tho lol
i guess itās the bosses where it really counts
where CP really counts, that is
mossy zinc
JS becomes very noticeable the deeper you go.
trim sigil
Easy way to experience is to take JS0 and chaos boon with more foes
After completing those encounters you'd feel free
mossy zinc
+20% more enemies in late Elysium chambers or the Temple of Styx can feel endless if you don't have the build for it, and it just gets worse with more points in JS.
loud coral
If you got a fast weapon w/Zeus or AoE then JS can usually be taken without too many issues, CP is better for aspects like Hestia or Arthur however
trim sigil
I'd argue on arthur ngl, because the chonky swings
mossy zinc
Yeah, JS with Guan Yu with that ridiculous AOE Special is no issue.
trim sigil
arthur mostly suffers from DC JS combo
gleaming cosmos
At what heat is considered start of "high"? 32 or more?
mossy zinc
Whether 3 enemies line up or 10 enemies line up doesn't matter if they all die in a couple throw slol.
mossy zinc
@gleaming cosmos there's no rule, really. If you want to get on the "leaderboard" spreadsheet (it's not officially a leaderboard), then 40+.
gleaming cosmos
okay thanks
mossy zinc
But if you're asking for help with 32+, you're probably better off here than in #h1-builds-and-combat.
mossy zinc
Not that people there can't help, and we frequent the channel, too, but here it's a bit more focused on people who do high heats regularly.
edgy arrow
(hint: itās prolly gonna be mostly the latter)
mossy zinc
@edgy arrow in Hades, you can do both.
edgy arrow
... hurray?
loud coral
Just try and run a speedrun build on high heat, should get that taken care of
mossy zinc
Get Fast and Die TryingāOrpheus, probably
trim sigil
Could always die with SD to go faster
edgy arrow
i love SD
loud coral
Or just turn off all mirror upgrades, helped me farm deaths easily
edgy arrow
i switched to it to learn LC4, and now i canāt go back
if i screw up in a random tartarus room because of infinite thugs argh it doesnāt matter anymore
itās freeing
loud coral
Still using DD, though I usually don't need more than one DD per encounter so I may just switch someday
mossy zinc
Could always die with SD to go faster
Die > use Call after taking all that damage > Second Wind
New speedrun meta?
loud coral
Wait 30 seconds to die, then get speed boost
edgy arrow
the new speedrun meta is hazard eris
kill yourself, then win
that wouldnāt work but itād be hilarious if it did
loud coral
Eris is busted, I normally hate the rail but Zeus Eris is insane
mossy zinc
With that boon from Lord Ares for extra DPS after using your SD.
trim sigil
Considering you can both dodge hazard eris and get boost from it, it gets unironically funny
A man too angry to die
loud coral
Man I wonder what the highest DPS someone's ever gotten is
edgy arrow
i wish there was a dps counter
or like, a ādamage dealtā thing at the victory screen
mossy zinc
DPS counter would be nice.
trim sigil
Just count the health of your defeated foes in head, that's easy
mossy zinc
Needs to correct for overkill damage, though.
loud coral
Just use Smoldering Air then only use calls, much easier to calculate dps /s
trim sigil
Instruction unclear, charmed the only enemy in room to death
edgy arrow
my theory is that flagrantly wasting your summon would be allowed, so long as you donāt attack/special/cast/whatever
loud coral
Maybe call-only against Dad, probably a lot more fair
trim sigil
Given that afk dad has been done (sorta), I won't be surprised
mossy zinc
lol you'll need Smoldering Air or Quick Favor, otherwise you build no gauge.
trim sigil
Chamber 1 ruins call only yes
mossy zinc
You can't get Smoldering Air in chamber 2, and Lord Hermes can't show up in chamber 2
edgy arrow
Chamber 1 ruins call only yes
@trim sigil yeah the idea is youād be able to use summons, so you can waste meg to get through chamber 1
trim sigil
Well, I suppose taking a ton of damage is also a possibility, but
loud coral
Once you get Smoldering Air you can just hope you get Hyper Sprint and camp out bosses until you get the call
trim sigil
Now problem is, still need to beat chamber 3 for duo
unless hypothetically shop can spawn at that chamber number
mossy zinc
Pretty sure it can't. Fountain maybe? I don't know the earliest chamber for a fountain.
crystal iron
oof
edgy arrow
oof
mossy zinc
I ended up selling Greatest Reflex because I wanted the damage. Probably should have sold Strong Drink, though.
trim sigil
thanks UC
loud coral
Massive oof right there, Strong Drink is a free 23% damage buff though so it's debatable
mossy zinc
And even more after the last fountain.
trim sigil
It's just 1/3 of eris, bad boon
mossy zinc
Still undecided about Pom Blossom vs Owl Pendant in Tartarus for Poseidon Aspect.
trim sigil
Tbh, I see it as: do you want consistently mediocre result, or occasionally better?
mossy zinc
Owl Pendant is just so much safer, but you end up really lacking DPS with casts in the Temple of Styx without a bunch of poms on it. Phalanx Shot kinda doesn't do much.
Doesn't do much by the Temple of Styx, that is.
trim sigil
bonus point for using blossom is that you can then pick owl/other keepsake in asphodel depending on what boons in tartarus. If you already got athena but wrong boon then it's +1 athena boon
mossy zinc
Yeah, Owl Pendant in Asphodel is what I do. I thought that's implied.
Although, if she's already in the pool, I'd take Acorn.
Lernie is mean.
trim sigil
Still undecided about Pom Blossom vs Owl Pendant in Tartarus for Poseidon Aspect.
Well, did an assumption from that one
mossy zinc
Or maybe Coin Purse.
trim sigil
Coin purse tbh
Lernie isn't as mean as champions after all. Cool lad
mossy zinc
Pretty sure I die more to Lernie than to EM3 lol.
mossy zinc
Because Lernie kills me.
static plover
Head Banger Lernie is the meanest of them all 
mossy zinc
Indeed.
Oh yeah, that reminds me.
His shockwave hit me. 
If I didn't press anything, I'd be perfectly safe.
I think casting makes your hurtbox a whole lot bigger. I've noticed similar hits in other situations where I should have been well in the clear.
loud coral
You do lunge forward a bit when you cast, the hurtbox probably changes with that animation
mossy zinc
Yeah, but I mean it expands in all directions quite a lot.
Maybe not forward, ironically enough.
Casting moves him back, anyway, not forward.
loud coral
Is it extremely noticeable though? I guess youād already have to already be only a couple pixels away from an attack for the cast to get you hit
trim sigil
Well, in case of passion shot that will be noticeable
mossy zinc
I think it's way more than a couple pixels.
Looking at that screenshot more closely, I see something purple close to Zag, so maybe it was actually one of Asterius's projectiles hitting me. I don't remember seeing any, though.
But yeah, casting hurtbox is definitely wider.
daring hedge
i really need to stop taking tartarus trials at high heat TD3 lol. still have endless BP wretched thug waves
staggered into like 15 waves of two at a time
daring hedge
exactly, it's so painful
mossy zinc
I had a silly chamber yesterday that just spawned single Numbskulls over and over.
Not getting Deadly Reversal from Phalanx Shot or Divine Dash anymore really hurts Phalanx Shot builds, I've noticed.
daring hedge
i feel like it should at least keep phalanx shot as a DR prereq
it's not nearly as easy to spam for the bonus as divine dash unless you're on a cast build with like, poseidon aspect
in which case it deserves that duo
mossy zinc
Yeah, I dunno. I don't like the solution too much in the first place. It lacks elegance.
Times Used
Divine Dash: 169
Hunter Dash: 87
Passion Dash: 41
Tidal Dash: 16
Thunder Dash: 12
Mistral Dash: 9
Blade Dash: 8
Drunken Dash: 7
Nerf to Hunter Dash only widened the gap.
daring hedge
lol blade and drunken
mossy zinc
I was probably forced into them with AP2 a few times. I refuse to accept the blame for those picks. 
trim sigil
I can only blame you for taking blade more than drunken
But that's probably because dionysis has a bunch of good boons to take instead
Tbh, I believe my ratings will be around the same, the only difference being tidal prioritized over passion
mossy zinc
I call this piece "High Heat meta in one screenshot (excluding Eris)". https://imgur.com/a/ty8d6hI
trim sigil
I do still wonder if there is a feasible way to nerf divine dash without making it feel like garbage
And so far it feels like a pointless task
bronze viper
Why bother nerfing it, just buff the rest of them to have utility
lone trail
No pls they already nerfed the bow special and that was my go to for speedy runs š
bronze viper
They don't even have to be as good as Divine Dash, they should just have to have like, Tidal Dash levels of utility and build diversity
lone trail
Tidal dash is SO good in the tunnels
trim sigil
I suppose that is more realistic solution (aside from having to rework 6 dashes instead of 1)
mossy zinc
0 damage on Divine Dash should be a thing.
bronze viper
It's basically already there, but yeah it's nice that it gets rid of DC hearts in a pinch
mossy zinc
It's just something that's completely unnecessary on it.
bronze viper
It would be kind of broken if it didn't dilute the Pom pool though.
mossy zinc
Hmm. I guess. Maybe poms should affect its Deflect damage or something and it starts low lol.
bronze viper
Yeah that would make sense, for it to only deal damage from deflections, but at a scaling rate. That way it wouldn't have its free DC utility
mossy zinc
Right now it's like if a FG character already beats everyone in neutral but also gets a command grab for mixups lol (looking at you, gouki ).
Just why?
bronze viper
It'd be nice if there was a Doom dash (with a smaller damage amount and worse scaling). It would offer an easier to get Merciful End that would be pretty considerably worse for most builds.
mossy zinc
That wouldn't be too bad.
mossy zinc
I think big changes like that are out of the question at this point, though.
bronze viper
Oh of course, just spitballing, but man, some of the dashes in the game. Oof
mossy zinc
Most of them do absolutely nothing for ranged aspects.
bronze viper
Drunken does nothing for most of everyone, if that helps
"Great. Hangover where I started the dash from. What I always wanted."
mossy zinc
That actually helps ranged aspects more than e.g. Thunder Dash lol.
bronze viper
Thunder Dash has the upside of scaling with all of Zeus' nonsense.
mossy zinc
And the downside of hitting nothing at all when you're just sniping with Chiron or Hestia.
At least Drunken Dash would hit enemies you're running from.
bronze viper
Or anything, ever, in practice lol. At least it doesn't turn off Dio's Aid.
F+
Every time I take Drunken Dash to simplify Numbskull BP2 rooms I get Athena within 2 rooms to punish me for my sins.
That is one thing that Drunken Dash does excellently
Killing swarms of 0 health enemies with 2 DC hearts.
bronze viper
Lol, my seed has a lot of terrible Dio boons with AP1 and a lot of Numbskulls
mossy zinc
Oh you're playing seeds.
bronze viper
I would say I have taken Drunken Dash more in this one seed than in the rest of my play time combined... probably by an order of magnitude
I play unseeded AP1 until I see a hammer in room 1. If I die on that attempt, I'll Give Up, and see if the hammer is AP2, and see what other aspects have.
mossy zinc
Sounds like you'd do better just moving on if the seed is bad though lol.
bronze viper
Yeah. But the process of determining if the seed is trash could take hours depending on how deep into runs I get.
trim sigil
Just tried lucy, is it really supposed to snap off targets that easily to lose any resemblance of ramping up damage?
Probably lack of absolute assist aim on kbm to blame
maiden geode
what if there was a Heat option that disabled keepsake swapping, or the god keepsakes
true fable
what if there was a Heat option that disabled keepsake swapping, or the god keepsakes
@maiden geode random keepsake for the pure unadulterated chaos of it all
mossy zinc
Having no keepsake is easier than taking Frostbitten Horn.
tardy path
Wow you really dislike demeter
static plover
look at high heat demeter really ain't your friend
Nourished soul does nothing and it unsellable (awful for LC4 and UC)
and rare crop is also unsellable
mossy zinc
The real combo is getting Rare Crop on your Nourished Soul.
static plover
shudders
mossy zinc
It's fine with AP1 tbh.
static plover
and have those be your only boons in addition to a core boon
mossy zinc
It doesn't help that her Attack and Special boons do the same damage as Lady Athena's but without the Deflect.
mossy zinc
Also no hitting anything.
Also no damage when it does hit anything (which it doesn't).
trim sigil
You can hit, uhh, pillars to utilize stygian shard
yeah
Also skull piles
(im trying real hard to remember the immobile foes~~
mossy zinc
Skullomat.
mossy zinc
Crystal Beam vs MM Megagorgon.