My point is that they should ask for more info before answering. Saying something like always trial because hammer can appear again w/o knowing weapons is negligence.
#h1-high-heat-strategies
tidal flame
lost otter
impact what hammer do to bows spears and guns to heavy.you just cant ignore hammers
tidal flame
Which again is why I don't like Reddit advice, they almost always jump to conclusions.
ruby cipher
that's why they have a higher chance of appearing
negligence is a heavy word for a game tbh
idk
sly remnant
i agree negligence is a heavy word
tidal flame
Fair. It's a video game
ruby cipher
It's not like they're at the dramatic crossroads point on 40 heat
tidal flame
I just can't find a better word. Anyhow, just a rant, I'll stop
sly remnant
nah you good. i do agree with your point
mossy zinc
The real answer to their question should have been "at Heat that low, it doesn't matter." 
sterile sedge
Negligence isnt too heavy, but if you want a ✨ version, you could say "it's silly to provide input without knowing the situation
sly remnant
we should also remember the average person just isn't going to be concerned with hammer options and boon + weapon combos
most people do Lightning -> get more lightning
win game
ruby cipher
nice strategy
sterile sedge
Because games are silly, and definitely not very serious business, especially with @mossy zinc in the corner always yelling at us to git gud
mossy zinc
I don't yell.
ruby cipher
It's more like she has a knife
sterile sedge
yelling holding a sign which reads in bold font, 'git gud'
lost otter
maybe, but gaming is a huge part of the business right now. These are many millions of companies. And a lot of money.
tidal flame
Yeah, didn't mean negligence to be like wow you screwed up, jail time.
But Nyaa def is standing in a corner silently judging you.
trim sigil
most people do Lightning -> get more lightning
can confirm
lost otter
what is this BTW. what a boon from poseidon with additional art?
lost otter
SOme one watch seilor moon)
sterile sedge
It's a link, and it's not in bold font.
@mossy zinc
fine then... holding a link, normal font size, and quite difficult to read from a distance, but with the implicit understood meaning of telling all those to whom it is directed to - for lack of a better phrasing - git gud
clever otter
what is this BTW. what a boon from poseidon with additional art?
@lost otter boons used to have that frame around them to indicate rarity
ruby cipher
maybe, but gaming is a huge part of the business right now. These are many millions of companies. And a lot of money.
big money's at stake at the reddit table. Will Joe pick the hammer? Or will he lose the million dollars?
tidal flame
I thought the strategy in this channel is not to git gud but complain until patch notes?
Worked for Bruiser nerf
lost otter
i cant remember this frames. realy
tidal flame
big money's at stake at the reddit table. Will Joe pick the hammer? Or will he lose the million dollars?
The derivative industry can be bigger than the the main business.
clever otter
yeah, let me find a screenshot where you can see them
sterile sedge
Worked for Bruiser nerf
@tidal flame they were nerfed and yet the game still spawned so many of them it took like 2 minutes to clear a single room?
clever otter
also, boons used to be displayed like this, and could go off the screen
tidal flame
Visual clarity, nice
ruby cipher
It's come a long way
lost otter
probably i just forgot this. becaus play much time on 0.26 and 0.27
ruby cipher
Sometimes I regret not waiting for 1.0
trim sigil
That's some crystal clarity right there
twilit orbit
I'm not very good at this game but I finally got a 32 heat win after a night of grinding
though I think the method was somewhat unconventional
daring hedge
congrats!
i would say it's fair to call yourself good at the game especially after clearing 32 
twilit orbit
I'm not very good at avoiding damage so I turned approval process to max so that I could skimp on some of the other pact downsides
and then I carried shattered shackle for the first two biomes until I rolled a boon that boosted my primary damage source lol
daring hedge
that's a smart way to deal with AP2. a lot of us here prefer to keep it off entirely as long as possible, or at least just 1 if needed lol
lost otter
and then I carried shattered shackle for the first two biomes until I rolled a boon that boosted my primary damage source lol
@twilit orbit Same man) sysiphus keppsake amazing
it go with it alote of time. for 1 zone. when go in random build. pretty strong to have 80% damage.Rework of this keepsake amazing
sly remnant
lost otter
better find Vorime and Wriste13 . To understand how easy do hades. and REaly fast.
Both have World recors on Hades
sly remnant
i'm just watching because he's entertaining while i'm at work i'm not expecting to learn
lost otter
im thinkin about it this for serios) runs))
sly remnant
i mean aphrodite has always been a legit strat for the final two boses
lost otter
Im thinkin about Aphro CAll and Duo aphro+ zeus. When you have a call every 5 second
uncut epoch
Lol 16 heat was the highest heat I’ve been able to manage. I really want that 32 heat statue because completionism but it feels like I’m a long ways away from achieving that. What are your favorite weapons for higher heat runs, y’all?
lost otter
Artur>claws>ahillies spear. that my pref
mossy zinc
Malphon (anything but Gilgamesh), Beowulf, Hestia, Guan Yu, Chiron.
Excalibur is fun at 32.
twilit orbit
i used chiron for my one clear because im best at bows
lost otter
But my weapons realy hard to handle to be effective in High Heat.
and @mossy zinc ty for heart rend info. i dont know its multyplicative. now i have dirty ideas.REALY dirty.
one of this its Lucifer)
shy steppe
i just used chiron for a 19 clear
got lucky with the hammer tho
trynna see if i can go for a different weapon now
lost otter
Another one)) Hello Artemis aid with Heart rend
shy steppe
chaos shield run should star with zeuss yeah?
ruby cipher
that's what I thought
ember bronze
I've seen people recommend Arthur for 32--I've never played Arthur
what are the basics of playing it?
bronze viper
Big stick go bonk
bronze viper
Yeah, a lot of it just mechancis of managing your dashes and strike combo
Or getting used to just using Dash-Strike > Strike1 as a safe bursty option
You can also safely apply your Aura by dash cancelling your special animation
carmine heron
reduced damage stacks well with it too - best run i had on it was where i had basically all the weakness on attack, extra weakness effect, -damage in festive fog, -damage from nearby, -damage from athena
at that point damage didn't matter much...i was able to tank hades
but that was a while ago, not sure how well that holds up at super high heat
bronze viper
Right. Without HL, it is extremely easy to trivialize the game
Arthur has a very unfortunate relationship with several pacts. DC, HL, FO2, EM4, JS...
ember bronze
Is there some bad additive relationship between HL and Arthur?
also yeah, playing around with it, the dashstrike mechanics are confusing
bronze viper
Nope, it's multiplicative, still though
You benefit "more" from the fact that damage is higher, but that doesn't ix the issue that damage is now higher... and the Aspect is designed to take profitable hits
The less profitable those hits are, the worse the Aspect's best trait gets
mossy zinc
Excalibur can trivialize HL5, too.
The one you want to avoid is FO2. That's a pain with Excalibur.
It's still doable, but a lot more difficult than it needs to be.
bronze viper
Yeah, any one of those problem pacts I listed is not that big of a deal, but the problems scale with each other
mossy zinc
Builds are Heartbreak Strike, Deadly Strike, or Divine Strike.
JS isn't a problem for Excalibur, either.
And I doubt EM4 is without FO2.
It's mainly FO2 that's the problem in my experience.
Well, EM4 is very unnecessary at 32 Heat, anyway.
lost otter
Hmmm ppl talking about artur)
mossy zinc
I like Heartbreak Strike the most because it maximizes your DPS, stacks damage reduction, and opens up an easy path to Smoldering Air.
I know @lost otter prefers Divine Strike, and Deadly Strike is a very common pick in the meta for massive crits.
lost otter
if be hard change attack on athena. and add artemis and aphro any were. Fore Duo with Artemis+Athena. to get 20% ctit chance. Its better then deadly strike. becaus deadly strike have 2 times less bonus damage.and less crit chance(only 15%). and deadly strike do not deflect and ZERO synergy with artur special.
and athena give bonus back stab damage. that why i choose athena.
wraith imp
chaos shield still new 1.0 shield.
I iz sad.
random bough
Unchanged?
mystic apex
@wraith imp I thought you mained zeus aspect now lol
random bough
It's a sizeable nerf
rocky mauve
if they increased the amount of arrows isn't it a buff on zeus boon?
twilit orbit
i dont think so
twilit orbit
special didnt trigger zeus that well since the lightning has like a 0.2 second cooldown
so you would only get a small amount of lightning from hitting all arrows
rocky mauve
How about sea storm, does it have a similar cooldown or is it better now?
lost otter
CHIRON IS UNCHANGED
@high kettle if you dont see its 10 per arrow but 8 arrows now(80 total) befor was 15 per arrow and 7 arrows (105 total)
bronze viper
Explain your theory?
Lol, that's not how damage works XD
It will be very slightly more consistent with crit, but not better
twilit orbit
less mean damage and less variance in damage with crit
honest kernel
im pretty sure the cooldown only applies to thunder flourish
since strike doesnt have it either
honest kernel
aphro
trim nebula
Or play normal
mossy zinc
Heartbreak Strike, Divine Dash, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air.
trim nebula
Does that actually increase ur dps
honest kernel
yeah
trim nebula
If u just one shot, really, repeat?
honest kernel
yeah
honest kernel
think of it like bow
trim nebula
Ok thanks
bronze viper
There are certainly better ideas to be had, yes
lost otter
only if you take zeus on special or dio. 
DC be easy
but i dont play on Hestia. dont know damage output on this weapons.
carmine heron
i mean, nothing stops you from free-firing on hestia to tear down DC
then you reload and go back to sniper mode
honest kernel
if you aren't on a timer thats fine yeah
carmine heron
true
shell depot
Is there a cooldown on applying Doom?
carmine heron
just the proc itself, unless you get doom stacking
shell depot
Right, assuming you get stacking.
I main zeus shield, and I'm trying to figure out which boon tree will end up giving the best DPS.
carmine heron
i don't think so - i got doom stacking on rama with the +shots hammer and it was hitting for 1200+
so it keeps up with rama's machine gun at least
shell depot
Lightning seems to have the best return so far? But I had some fantastic runs where I had doom on the shield + Merciful End on my shield so I could keep applying it and then popping it
ocean shore
Just encountered the most obnoxious room i've ever had. Tartarus, 3rd room, full room of those witches that fire single projectiles, Armored, with duplicate-summoning and speed. DC2.
I was using the rama. I am no longer using the rama. lol.
carmine heron
speakig of doom stacking...i really, really like doom on rama's special for just that reason
stacking or no
lost otter
speakig of doom stacking...i really, really like doom on rama's special for just that reason
@carmine heron Intresting idea about doom on Rama
mossy zinc
Hestia is generally rated top tier.
static locust
anyone else get a splitter in Erebus that's impossible to hit just because it keeps going around corners?
static locust
took a gate in tartarus with the rail and made it through the other enemies easily, but that one took a solid 2 minutes just because i couldnt hit it
super frustrating
at least with hades there's not a lot of cover
carmine heron
yeah, the 1200+ doom procs were amazing, and it was super safe since it's fast, long range, and bounces
takes a lot of very specific things to get it going though
static locust
but with erebus as soon as i get in sight of it its gone around another corner
lost otter
takes a lot of very specific things to get it going though
@carmine heron Impending,suffering and +4 arrows?
carmine heron
i think in order to see the 1200 i also needed weakness and +damage to weak foes
but yeah, i haven't managed to get those 3 in the same run again
not that i've tried super hard to force a lot of ares
but the +4 arrows doesn't seem super common
oh yeah, i probably did have impending too
just putting doom on the special really helps it out though - giving the bouncy auto target attack some daymage clears small fry that are hard to hit with the main attack
shut night
Isnt it better to go for dodge doom spam? With merciful end and gilgamesh?
Why bother with 1200 doom procs when you can implode 5-6 500dmg doom procs in one second?
carmine heron
sure, that works too
but if you're playing with the bow, it helps cover a weakness of it really well
shut night
Wait, bow has weakness?
looks at his busted chiron
carmine heron
lol
twilit orbit
chiron was nerfed
carmine heron
rama has problems with small, fast enemies
twilit orbit
its a good thing I did my 32 heat run before the patch dropped lol
carmine heron
too fast to get a good charge shot off, special does basically nothing
twilit orbit
-25% damage overall
shut night
Maybe meme zeus chiron in now playable
high kettle
still seems playable tbh
mossy zinc
Eh, 32 Chiron is still free. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/765686730069114920/Hades_946.png?width=844&height=475
twilit orbit
thats scary
no healing and enemies do double damage
im not good enough to do that :<
twilit orbit
oh does athena boon give you permanently two charges of defiance if you take stubborn defiance?
that probably makes it a lot better
mossy zinc
Her Last Stand and Deathless Stand can give you a DD only if you lose your Stubborn Defiance in that chamber before picking up her boon.
Basically, everyone who does high heat abuses that.
twilit orbit
ah, that would help a lot
carmine heron
use traps/lava to remove stubborn defiance -> pick up athena boon -> stubborn defiance applies over that
so you get a free DD and stubborn is still removed first
much win
twilit orbit
I didnt like stubborn defiance when I tried it because if I was in a room where I was taking a lot of damage, then the revive wouldnt be enough hp for me to make it through the room
but two revives is probably good enough
mossy zinc
It gives you more effective HP over a whole run either way.
twilit orbit
i find that in rooms I either take no/very little damage or I take a whole ton of damage
and in the latter rooms ill die, revive with 30 hp, and then die again
twilit orbit
yeah I can see how they synergize with eachother
mossy zinc
And Touches of Styx are super cheap, so even if I buy any, I'll have plenty of money for boons etc.
mossy zinc
It's like 99 or something with CF2.
lost otter
Jesus my dirty build in lucifer works much better than i expected
twilit orbit
ah thats pretty cheap
high kettle
gg
trim nebula
Sucks that playing hestia requires u to not have any DC on
Other than that I love the weapon
tidal flame
yeah, the same can be said for old Charged Flight Beowulf, ... or the current one
ripe crane
You're allowed to fire normal shots also :p
mossy zinc
The only fight where DC2 is a real issue for Beowulf is Hades.
ripe crane
How so? I feel DC the least in boss fights...
carmine heron
bleh, got all the way to hades on heat 32 with all my rezzes
forgot i had EM4 turned on and got owned
didn't even make it to 3rd phase
lost otter
probably i start artur 45)I didn't play for one day and I already really miss
honest charm
How so? I feel DC the least in boss fights...
@ripe crane skulls and summons get blue hearts. for skulls especially that is a pretty big deal
lost otter
Sick.spend all rerolls to find attack.=> no even common attack
lost otter
THIS is legal??? 6 floor of tartarus (even with +60 enemy in punishment) its too much probably for tartarus.
carmine heron
or skulls
they tend to spawn a loooot of skulls
do you guys have suggestions on punishment setups for heat 32?
so far i've liked rama best
paper breach
Yeah, 60 doesnt seem weird. I once got over 120 with an 80% roiling
daring hedge
it's just that wretched thugs spawning in excessively large numbers in tartarus seems to be a bit of an issue, sometimes
it's been encouraged to f10 any instances where they feel like they're spawning too much, etc.
paper breach
True
ripe crane
I had them spawning what felt like forever during a trial in Tartarus. It was expounded by them having the ghost perk. Glad it is a known issue
daring hedge
definitely; it becomes especially noticeable with trials (with BP active) and thanatos encounters
bronze viper
Boo, I'm getting close. Working on 47 with CP0, EM4 FO2 HL5. Got to phase 3 that time, but timer killed me
Dad helped
daring hedge
is your JS still at 0?
bronze viper
lol definitely
lost otter
Yeah, 60 doesnt seem weird. I once got over 120 with an 80% roiling
@paper breach Its tartarus man.TARTARUS. This number usual for 3zone Tan . But not for first zone.
paper breach
What spawned though
lost otter
Im realy angry about this room.i can find epic Attack....probably 1 from 15 times. and this room take my DD. becays alote of lasers and clubguys in.
daring hedge
ah, yep, wretched thugs. thought so
lost otter
clubguys =wretched thugs?
daring hedge
yeah, sorry if that wasn't clear
lost otter
Nope because english not my main language
daring hedge
i'm aware, but also referred to them as big guys with clubs earlier
so yes, clubguys
please f10 in the future if you get an encounter like this where it feels like they spawn too much
lost otter
That room i try find in test version?
the game spoils me.2th time i see this. and first time i have artur with with epic attack and epic attack speed.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/764819599711272960/765739667932315658/unknown.png
bronze viper
please f10 in the future if you get an encounter like this where it feels like they spawn too much
@daring hedge I had a Tartarus Trial today with Thugs that lasted a hair longer than what I expected but it was a lot better than pre patch.
daring hedge
that's good to hear at least
lost otter
oooooh what a dream....what attack speed....i want this forever.....
bronze viper
Epic Swift Flourish on Chiron also feels like you're breaking the game. I wonder if the Concentrated Volley thing still exists.
lost otter
its just im so lucky or some thing changed? becaus i take 3 dashes.30% attack speed and now this
bronze viper
Lucky.
I've gotten Black Out (dio legendary) with AP2 and RI2 in Tartarus before lol.
lost otter
its too much.
i dont have in mirror so much for rare
if it continue i probably write on support.
its too much rare and epic after patch
bronze viper
If it continues into multiple runs maybe. Even, I've done 3 runs and I haven't see anything like that
It's just variance.
lost otter
than i just MUST beat this 44 heat if i have luck godness on my back
Epic Swift Flourish on Chiron also feels like you're breaking the game. I wonder if the Concentrated Volley thing still exists.
@bronze viper deffenetly this 30% speed feels like im using cheats
i kill my self if dont kill hades...
lost otter
i'm scared AF. real. first time when game scares me..
i dont wana figth with hades now... im probably do it tommorow. im warm my hands...clean my head. calm down
becaus i have undreal setup... and ready how never be...
gn all
ocean shore
What are the known ways to reset the seed?
I know dying is one, are there any others?
bronze viper
There's a mod that lets you set it as well
true fable
right now ive been going for merciful end on the shield of chaos for higher heats but im about to jump to 32
is there a better build for chaos shield
ocean shore
I don't know about heat 32, but i did heat 20 with a Merciful End - Zeus Aspect build. It absolutely melted everything.
Athena on special, Ares on attack. Beyblade the enemies and spam attack. If you get the hammer that gives you double attack, then GG
Literally nothing else matters on the build.
ocean shore
It's basically like chaos shield except it's a beyblade and getting Athena on special makes it a massive AOE deflect
If you stand a distance away from the boss before beyblading them, you can get the shield to sit right on top of them
ocean shore
Kinda?
It's mainly the fact that the shield will constantly proc Merciful End
And so basically every regular attack gets like 300 extra damage
Starting out my last bounty strong. Nemesis aspect, epic-artemis crit attack, munters mark, hunter dash.
Ok, the thrust attack, moving you forward has to be one of the most annoying mechanics in the game, particularly in asphodel
bronze viper
Hmm... experimented with several Chiron 50 configurations. RI0 CP2 JS1 EM4 appears to be the smoothest but I keep timing out the very end of phase 2 even with a 2 stack... hm
Wasn't really in the mood to do RI2 but I guess that's what I'll try next
mossy zinc
TD3?
bronze viper
Yeah
mossy zinc
Just do TD2 lol.
bronze viper
I'm not sure from whence I'm summoning that 3 heat from lol
bronze viper
Yeah, giving my hands a break. Bummer, I ended up getting Concentrated + Relentless that time, and I wasn't really at risk of dying to Dad.
I'll try TD2 later
lost otter
jesus i still dont want figth hades
rocky lark
I'd say athena attack and doom special is the better for ME zeus aspect
lost otter
@rocky lark My pref is https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/758486369537490944/unknown.png
becaus doom all time have 20% crit chance. and blade rifts too. becaus special all time deflect.and you can use ME with dash if Special not near.but IMO
i beat this 44 heat. but its was not fair.becaus im stop run. and today i warm befor start figth with dad.I think this is not an honest victory.
and godness of luck be on my side.
too good boons i have. almost all what need in epic.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/765924586557800478/unknown.png
rocky lark
But why not have good %dmg on your attack and what I believe is a bigger doom proc on the special
Especially with the double strike hammer
lost otter
becaus with double strike. special proc twice you doom. and 20% crit chance.
immidiatly
rocky lark
But the build works the same functionally with divine strike and doom special
lost otter
when athena special. 50% of your time special hit from back.and backstab athena damage work.And mirror give 50% backstab damage. also 20% crit chance.
if you have mark=> special melt 2+ enemy in 2 seconds.becaus almost 100% crit and huge backstab bonus
my build not about ares+athena. my build about ares+athena and artemis some were for DR (+20% crit) and marks
the maximum that I could squeeze out of this build its critical doom on 4k
rocky lark
Hmm
final torrent
I heard that athena cast also hits backstab even though it hits at the front
rocky lark
How does zeus shield special backstab work?
If the centre of the shield is behind them I'm assuming?
As for DR however, that still works with athena on attack
lost otter
im know.but with special DR have 100% up time.
maiden geode
hai guys I have decided to learn rama
does relentless volley work as I want it to with rama
lost otter
If the centre of the shield is behind them I'm assuming?
@rocky lark yup. its work exacly how you say when i last time play on shield. but i try it rigth .its dosend work now.Back stab damage dont work on zeus special now... my build cow ass now
Not totaly but lost huge DPS from athena special
hollow lynx
does relentless volley work as I want it to with rama
if you mean spread suffering easier and get rid of DC better, then yes
maiden geode
my choices here are sniper shot, repulse shot, relentless volley
and yeah I have DC2 on
hollow lynx
gross attack choices, choose relentless
mossy zinc
What does Repulse Shot do?
hollow lynx
go for something like thunder or drunken flourish for better dc breaking
mossy zinc
I haven't played Rama since the beta, I think lol.
hollow lynx
repulse shot makes a blast wave around you that pushes enemies away, whenever you attack
hollow lynx
it's still not great
maiden geode
agreed
mossy zinc
That doesn't sound too bad.
maiden geode
oh I was told to start zeus on rama?
mossy zinc
Sounds worse than Relentless Volley, though.
maiden geode
the idea being that any %attack is good, but the special needs something more specific?
hollow lynx
zeus or dio for rama special, yes
ares can work but it's better if you invest to get dire misfortune, and zeus/dio gets rid of DC hearts better
mossy zinc
What does UC have to do with the Chaos Gate?
mossy zinc
Probably not. Dunno what other pacts you have etc.
maiden geode
it turns out that smoldering air with aphrodite's aid clears the heroes quickly
mossy zinc
Yup.
remote stratus
or maybe dio was broken in test and now its fixed
lost otter
i play dio after 1.0 all be find with crit dio build. even befor test branche was opened for test with broken artemis. and i DO NOT see information about changings in Dio mechanic.Or Fixes about :befor dio was broken and can crit.
maiden geode
hmm, triple shot, explosive shot, perfect shot
methinks perfect shot is pretty good on rama
ripe crane
Explosive shot is large. Triple + explosive makes all 3 shots hit enemies you are very close to
Maybe just triple if you're close enough but I've not tried
maiden geode
well I've been offered all 3 at once
doubt I'm ever gonna see triple+explosive
is explosive shot worth basically not having a power shot?
bronze viper
What does Repulse Shot do?
@mossy zinc Absolutely nothing! It's probably penance for Rama scaling so well with nearly every attack hammer lol.
The projectile destruction is not really relevant because Rama special already does that pretty well, and you have to time the release of the attack for the shockwave
mossy zinc
But doesn't it kill rats?
bronze viper
It doesn't do damage, just pushback and kills projectiles
is explosive shot worth basically not having a power shot?
@maiden geode I would only be happy take it if I had Deadly Strike, which scales very well off of the bonus damage. It's not the best.
bronze viper
One pulse on release
bronze viper
It's not like the similar spear hammer, the spin one?
mossy zinc
Does it push them back into Sniper Shot range?
Rhetorical question.
Would be a fun combo if it did.
Getting both with AP2 must be a dream come true at 50+.
trim sigil
Sniper shot range is a tad further than pretty much any knockback can allow
bronze viper
Lol... I don't know what the new range is, that would be pretty meme worthy though
trim sigil
Attack focused sniper shot chiron bow with poseidon special?
bronze viper
Lmao. That is something. Poseidon special wouldn't even be that bad. Can someone confirm if you get 1, 2 or 8x Sea Storm procs?
trim sigil
Haelian or someone like that did sea storm splitting bolt and it indeed looked like all the arrows
Gl actually getting the duo, but a man can dream
rocky mauve
That's how I beat my 32 heat run, it's pretty strong
bronze viper
Well, provided you actually get the duo lol. I guess Tempest Flourish has pretty solid bonus damage in its own right
mossy zinc
It's about even with Deadly Flourish.
trim sigil
Among the lowest
bronze viper
No, that's for Strike
trim sigil
Well, still
mossy zinc
But Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish gets better t2 boons for damage.
And you can go Deadly Strike + Heartbreak Flourish.
bronze viper
Just woke up, you didn't read that
mossy zinc
So you have strong alternatives when going for Heart Rend.
Tempest Flourish kinda locks you in for that, and then what do you take on Attack.
Something like Heartbreak Strike + Deadly Flourish + Zeus' Aid is stretching it a bit.
rocky mauve
Yea the main problem with that setup besides getting the boon is finding a spot for zeus
bronze viper
It's a practiced skill if you've ever played Smoldering Air lol
trim sigil
Lightning Strike to fight DC2 
bronze viper
The good ol' Thunder Dash, hope for Smoldering Air, didn't get, sell Phalanx Shot and Thunder Dash, it's fine, Zeus is in out pool, put on Owl Pendant in Aphodel and pray combo.
trim sigil
Honestly, lately I have been thinking a ton about cast/ambient builds for high heat. Obviously RI3 doesn't help in slightest with that but h
bronze viper
RI3 is a trash argument against any strategy lmao. No one likes RI3, on anything
trim sigil
I suppose one aspect that can counteract RI3 is gilgamesh but it has got a whole other can of worms
bronze viper
That is very true though
It's a real plus, you know, when they actually make the aspect... do things
It's certainly not doing ME without RI1 lol
bronze viper
bablo did Hera and Achilles at high heat in Blood Price if you want to watch stuff for reference.
ripe crane
If you have max of the mirror upgrade that gives you more gold-border rewards, and buy boons at each charon shop, how many boons would you generally have at the end of Tartarus?
mossy zinc
It's +20% more chance for gold laurel rewards, but when there are gold laurel rewards, you generally get to pick one out of two or three.
So you get a lot more than +20% boons per run.
ripe crane
I was just thinking about how to max the number of boons you have for RI3, but I guess the bigger problem with RI3 is that it can force you to sell things you want to keep regardless of how many boons you have...
Wait
bronze viper
You mean for RI2?
ripe crane
I'm not even thinking of the right pact
mossy zinc
Gotta learn to not depend so much on specific boons.
ripe crane
Yeah I'm thinking UC. I only know where the pacts are on the list and what they do, I don't remember half the names xD
bronze viper
UC has two approaches: End Tartarus with exactly 2 or 3 boons (one of which you don't want), or stack as many boons as possible with at least 1 Persuasion to make it more likely of getting rid of one you don't want.
trim sigil
Too many boons is bad anyway, because your poms start going wild and then UC screws your build regardless
mossy zinc
If I have a lot of boons, I don't waste rerolls on Pools unless it wants me to sell any S tier boons like Greatest Reflex, Divine Dash, or Smoldering Air or something lol.
Better to save those rerolls for getting those boons, instead.
bronze viper
Lol, you still want the Persuasion available to bail out that situation though, it's come up surprisingly often for me
trim sigil
Imagine using authority rolls to get more boons 
mossy zinc
Yeah, I'd keep Persuasion for that. Just saying I'm not wasting it if the situation is not something that bad.
@trim sigil what's Authority?
bronze viper
It's that non-aesthetic Darkness sink
trim sigil
"in the name of Hades, I would like this pom reward to change into demeter boon"
"and then into poseidon"
ripe crane
I try to do the not depending on specific boons, I feel like that helped me improve at adapting to whatever rng I get. I hadn't equipped any of the god-specific keepsakes until grinding out the achievement. But I don't know if that's particularly viable at 32+ heat
trim sigil
"and then demeter again"
trim sigil
Because kb attacks bad 
ripe crane
Butterfly is my fav keepsake tbh
mossy zinc
Butterfly + FO0, I should specify.
FO0 is just a lot of free Butterfly procs.
It's great for Guan Yu because Charged Skewer.
I should try it for Beowulf at 32 sometime.
trim sigil
Butterfly looks so good but always feels so meh in process 
trim sigil
You don't really get to feel that dmg percentage because there are lots of other ways to increase it
Including utilizing keepsakes for proper boons
ripe crane
Beowulf would be cool. I especially like it for cast builds since it's difficult to get extra cast damage.
mossy zinc
It adds a lot of damage to your Calls and everything else.
trim sigil
Well, yes, indeed
But that's rarely to be a win con
mossy zinc
Kinda like a mini Eris.
trim sigil
Don't get me wrong btw, I love butterfly runs. Just that they can be deceiving
trim sigil
Eris with 30% butterfly is Eris lvl 7 
mossy zinc
That is also true.
ripe crane
Butterfly also adds fun. You can't quantify fun (except in increments of 2% to all your damage)
trim sigil
Butterfly tidal gil
mossy zinc
Butterfly on Guan Yu, you still have a good chance of seeing either Heartbreak Flourish or Deadly Flourish. You're not losing much.
Smoldering Air + Butterfly is silly, too.
It's like Smoldering Air + Lv.2 Eris.
Funny how a high level Butterfly is as good as the best aspect at Lv.2 lol.
And I'm not even really memeing.
ripe crane
Even if you have to take Demeter flourish instead of Aphro's, you're only losing, what, 30-40% after a couple poms? You won't even notice that.
trim sigil
Tbh I keep digging onto frost attack/flourish + arctic blast
The only thing stopping me is how painful is inconsistent enemy speed
mossy zinc
At Lv.4, Frost Flourish is already -50% behind Heartbreak Flourish Lv.4 lol
Divine Flourish is okay only because of Deflect.
Well, "only".
trim sigil
Poseidon Flourish is lose-lose
bad dmg, even less dmg because of knockback 
ofc scaling into kb build works, but shh
mossy zinc
It's not bad damage, though.
Tempest Flourish and Deadly Flourish are about equal in damage.
lost otter
Well, "only".
@mossy zinc its not only.) dont forgot about synergy.and how Divine Flourish can deal more damage then Heartbreak Flourish.
mossy zinc
Divine Flourish cannot do more damage than Heartbreak Flourish.
mossy zinc
That's only for when you actually Deflect something.
DPS overall will be a lot lower.
lost otter
and i dont say aboyt back stab after any divine attack
and Divene attack or specila +backstab >then aphro and all shes bonuses
trim sigil
Tempest Flourish and Deadly Flourish are about equal in damage.
Indeed, and Deadly is bad damage
It compensates by crit instead
mossy zinc
No.
mossy zinc
Tempest and Deadly Flourish are equal when averaged for crits.
They're second-highest in damage for +% Special boons.
trim sigil
Mmm then
bronze viper
As with everything, external bonus damage sources puts Deadly way over the top, but at least Tempest has Sea Storm as an out
mossy zinc
You're confounding low Tempest Strike damage with Tempest Flourish.
lost otter
tempest have bonuses too
bronze viper
I don't recognize knockback boons as a real thing.
lost otter
Why all forgot about Wave Pounding.
bronze viper
Because it's atrocious
mossy zinc
Crits can go higher, yeah. But Tempest Flourish does work.
lost otter
Tempest +Wave Pounding = same damage as demeter or athena.
bronze viper
I do not like my boons to have massive "if" conditionals. One of those "ifs" being "If not a boss"
Another "if" being "if the room is small or if the enemy is next to a wall"
mossy zinc
Anyway, Tempest Flourish is good enough. That's all that matters.
lost otter
if slams boon so weak. Why only with them WR Sub 7 exist?
mossy zinc
Anything that can clear TD3 JS3 CP2 is good enough.
bronze viper
Because this isn't the speedrunning discord lol
trim sigil
Because things being weak doesn't mean they can't excel at anything at all
lost otter
Nope.becaus this boos have insane damage. and this is way to clean room faster and kill faster.
and they more than average in damage
bronze viper
Hera, in the context of speed running, is the best bow in the game, by a long shot. Hera, in the context of high heat runs, is the worst bow. By a long shot.
Stuff has context
At high heat, you do not want boons that can just turn "off" depending on circumstances out of your control
trim sigil
ironically enough, crit boons could fall in that category
lost otter
you just dont saw how same speedruners do attempt with Rama or zeus shield
its no so much difference rama and hera in speedrun.
mossy zinc
@lost otter if you wanna know why high heat is so different from speedruns, do all your 44 Heat pacts again, but add RI1 and AP2.
Builds completely change.
"Optimal" no longer matters so much.
lost otter
That why i say befor. i never do it.becaus its broke main gameplay. And game becoming in just LUCKY run or UNLUCKY run
mossy zinc
You just want "consistent".
You can still do AP2 consistently. It's not just luck.
But build strategies are very different.
Can't easily do OP builds.
Gotta do simple but strong builds.
Is this a lucky run?
I have only 4 boons lol.
trim sigil
I died with 2 hence its a lucky run
lost otter
its luck) becaus i try it. its not fun when you 2 times in a row replase dash . and its not a fun with uselees stuff. like...why i need artemis cast? and why i need do this holy cow gameplay with 3 boons?
its realy intresting shoot millions time to very fat target over and over again with weak attack?
trim sigil
(btw touch of styx premium-less could become a separate category)
lost otter
and its a LUCK. becaus 2 sack on screen. or its Styx kiss not from zone 3?
trim sigil
Tbf that's a different type of luck/unluck that can hit AP0 runs too
mossy zinc
I mean, 10% luck?
lost otter
2 sack rare deal.
trim sigil
It's not like speedruns are happy to see 3sacks
lost otter
probably less then 1 to 10 runs
mossy zinc
99.9% players would have died in Tartarus lol.
trim sigil
Tbh in my experience 2sack averages to like 33-50%
bronze viper
This is a pointless argument. Luck is always going to be factor, which is why you prioritize consistent options to minimize the impact luck can have on a run.
@lost otter You are perfectly welcome to continue using Knockback boons.
@mossy zinc You don't need boons when your base attack does 700 damage to 2 targets.
mossy zinc
Yeah, I'm not saying luck is not a factor.
lost otter
@mossy zinc i dont say you bad player. i just dont wana play in MORE luck than skill gameplay.
mossy zinc
The point is: we're discussing strategies that work with AP2 etc. and that don't rely on so much luck.
bronze viper
To be fair, meta right now is AP1 seedless.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
bronze viper
But seedless makes the consistency problem also very relevant
mossy zinc
I'm just trying to get the idea across for why we're arguing for "consistency" over "optimal".
I think knockback can be very good, but I wouldn't start a run with Poseidon Keepsake.
trim sigil
imagine not wanting a chance for fishing legendary
bronze viper
Excluding Dad, knockback is the best mechanic available in Styx. And like... 25% of the rooms in Elysium. It's completely pointless in Asphodel, and probably won't be online in Tartarus
mossy zinc
@lost otter I think you can do AP0 RI3. That's still far more skill than luck.
And more Heat.
No rerolls, but 3 options.
Only 1 dash, but it's possible.
You still have SD.
lost otter
@mossy zinc I wana game with builds. i love creating builds and my stuff and play on it.
mossy zinc
You can still do builds with RI1+ and AP0. It's somewhat similar.
lost otter
sorry for being rude. but my sausage just doesn't get up to play without builds. I am not interested. i dont be touch mirror anyway.
mossy zinc
AP1 RI0: only 2 choices, but rerolls.
AP0 RI1: always 3 choices, but no rerolls (BUT you get rerolls from keys)
ocean shore
omg. first heat 32 run, I made it to hades (after dying twice and running out the clock in EM3), and I die when he's at 25% hp on phase 2. Freaking spin attacks are so fast that he actually did a double spin like in EM4
bronze viper
sorry for being rude. but my sausage just doesn't get up to play without builds. I am not interested. i dont be touch mirror anyway.
@lost otter Lol, this was poetic.
ocean shore
I'm so salty.
bronze viper
- What aspect?
mossy zinc
I've been doing a few 32 Heat runs lately, so I'm all up to speed on 32 meta right now.
trim sigil
"Silence, wench. I don't want to use AP anymore. I just want to be happy"
ocean shore
HL2, LC3, CF2, EM3, BP2, MM, UC, FO1, DC2, TD2
Eris Rail
bronze viper
"Silence, wench. I don't want to use AP anymore. I just want to be happy"
@trim sigil No but seriously lol, I'm glad the meta is shifting in this direction.
mossy zinc
@trim sigil can I interest you in our lord and savior AP2?
trim sigil
If approval meant the best boons to fit my builds then yes
bronze viper
@ocean shore LC3 is really rough without Stubborn Defiance. I would move the points from LC to JS3, which is fairly irrelevant on Eris
trim sigil
but alas, can't have attack boons in asphodel
ocean shore
Mirror is all purple except for regen and the last 3 talents
mossy zinc
Switch HL2 FO1 to HL5 FO0. Trust me, it's way easier.
bronze viper
I prefer HL0 FO2 but that's preference
mossy zinc
But you're not ahead of the meta like I am.
I'll keep telling everyone to not do FO at 32 until they see the light.
ocean shore
I did do a run earlier at heat 20 to try out Stubborn Def. It felt MonkaS except when i got pat's styx thing. Then it was kinda enjoyable.
mossy zinc
Like everyone eventually saw the light with Persuasion.
And like @bronze viper said, either go LC4 SD or LC0 DD.
ocean shore
But I still prefer Death Def.
trim sigil
Speaking of that, DD styx is more expensive than SD styx which is fairly concerning
mossy zinc
Hmmmm I think it's fine, though.
bronze viper
SD Styx is awesome until you get to Dad. It's a trade off for sure
mossy zinc
SD is kind of a high skill thing.
bronze viper
But DD Styx on a 3+ stack can be very tilting
mossy zinc
It's way better for me, but for a lot of people, they do better with DD.
trim sigil
I meant the consumable, not a zone, heh
lost otter
its personal preference. with SD you easy clean rooms. but can be punished with Bosses.
DD hard to clean rooms but you have bonus lives on boss encounter.
mossy zinc
Yeah, most new players don't like SD.
trim sigil
Technically, the highest skill/masochism is high heat DD
bronze viper
Haelian loves it
mossy zinc
If they tell you some things like how to get DDs from Lady Athena, they might give it another spin.
But SD is difficult for new players.
For me, clearing is expected. For new players, they're happy to make it to Elysium.
lost otter
Technically, the highest skill/masochism is high heat DD
@trim sigil Now you understand man why i call my setup masochistic.
ocean shore
Yeah I don't really have trouble clearing rooms, it's just with high heat, that mach5 hades spins were brutal, even when I was playing safe.
I'll do another attempt after I eat lunch. I'm getting hangry 
I'll also be switching to hestia 'cause the damage feels better for bosses, imo.
mossy zinc
Hestia is probably the best aspect for boss fights specifically, still.
Although Eris and Chiron are pretty close.
lime sinew
Does anyone know if the game prioritizes offering boons for gods you don't have a boon from yet? Like lets say I want to go a full Zeus/Poseidon build and get as many Zeus and Poseidon boons as possible. Lets also say my first 2 boons I get are Zeus and Poseidon and then I get the option to take a boon from a God I didn't care about like Demeter or something. Did Demeter have a higher chance to show up than another Zeus or Poseidon boon because I didn't have one of Demeter's boons yet? Or Is there an equal chance for any boon to show up in the pool of the gods you have during a run?
ocean shore
The thing is, playing with a controller, it's annoying to try to aim the special on the rail so that it hits moving bosses/enemies (EM3 chariot in particular)
ivory willow
i play the game on keyboard only lmao
bronze viper
@lime sinew I have had it happen a lot that a 3rd god I don't want keeps coming up in run even if I haven't explicitly put them in my pool. I don't know if that's confirmation bias though. But in your situation, no I think it is just random.
mossy zinc
That's just RNG.
There are 4 god "slots".
When you start a run, all 4 slots are random.
When you pick up 1 god, slot 1 will always be that god, the other 3 slots are random.
Etc.
"Random" slots will always be gods you don't have yet.
So, a normal run will have at most 4 different gods.
lime sinew
Are the god slots set at the start of the run? Like does the game decide you will only see Zeus, Poseidon, Ares and Artemis? Or is it random until you fill up the 4 slots?
mossy zinc
No, they're random at the start of the run.
ocean shore
Oh, so that talent that gives %5 dmg per boon is capped at 25% (4 + hermes)?
wooden bear
Are you 100% sure about that?
lime sinew
Gotcha. So technically you could wait until you find the God you want?
mossy zinc
Yes.
wooden bear
Also you can get 5 with the god keepsakes
mossy zinc
Yes, "normal" run.
wooden bear
Iirc
ocean shore
I'm assuming someone is working on a racing mod a la Binding Of Isaac Afterbirth+ Racing+ mod?
mossy zinc
BUT if you make it to a shop with 3 gods or less (i.e., when 1 slot is random), you can see boons from multiple random gods you don't have yet in the shop and multiple random gods you don't have yet at the exits for the next chamber.
That's very rare, but it can happen.
wooden bear
Wait so that means it's not random at the start
mossy zinc
So you can get 5+ gods without forcing any.
wooden bear
Like it's not chosen preemptively
mossy zinc
What means it's not random at the start?
wooden bear
If you can naturally see 5
mossy zinc
That's because slot 4 is "random".
wooden bear
Now you've lost me
mossy zinc
lol
So, you have 3 gods already.
Those 3 gods are locked into their slots.
Slot 4 is random.
Any boon you see that's designated "slot 4" can be any god you don't have yet.
wooden bear
What if you only have 2 gods? Can you skip the next 2 gods you see so that you reroll them?
mossy zinc
If you see multiple "slot 4" boons at e.g. a shop, they can be different gods.
@wooden bear yes. If you skip, the next time they'll just be random again.
ocean shore
Well... The run is seeded, so...
In practice it's random, but technically it's not, because it's seeded.
mossy zinc
It's pseudo RNG.
Lots of different actions that can advance the RNG number.
That's why routing is possible.
But if you don't route, that doesn't matter.
There's no real routing meta at the moment, either—not for high heat nor speedruns.
lost otter
Even Seed changing when you play. to get SAME what in previos run. you need do SAME.
lime sinew
So then to go back to my original question using the god slots as an example...Lets say I have 3 of the 4 god slots filled. Is my next boon more likely to be a random god to fill that slot? Or is all the same chance to get one of the gods i already have vs a new random god?
lost otter
almost axacly same
mossy zinc
Should be the same chance for all 4 slots?
lost otter
even in seed next god can be changed
mossy zinc
Not like I've studied the code or anything. Maybe slot 4 is a bit more likely if you have already have 3 gods. But I don't think so.
Although, the last time I went into the Temple of Styx with only 3 gods, all the boons were random gods I hadn't picked yet.
So maybe at least in the Temple or in shops or something, they're more likely?
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I also saw 3 different gods in the Temple of Styx that run.
So I could have had 6 gods lol.
Lord Hermes btw doesn't count.
lost otter
i just time to time look at race. when speedruners start on SAME seed. but its complitely different play through.
lime sinew
Yeah there's probably a lot going on with that. Was curious how it works if you were looking to do something very specific with 2 gods. If it was better to just take 2 other gods if the game gives them to you incase there was any weighting going on where the game tries to give you different gods if you dont have all 4 slots filled
wooden bear
My theory, based on nothing but some assumptions, would be that if you wanted a 2 god build, best would be to rush 4 gods so that no others get offered
mossy zinc
There's no good reason to limit yourself to 2 gods.
lost otter
as far as i know. the game always loves duo. if you start with athena for exampleyou take athena ttack..game offer to you ares aphro and artemis 3 of 4 of this good be on pool.
Or if you star with Dio cast. game with Huge chance start offering to you demeter zeus
trim sigil
Mind would automatically skip over gods you don't need with your starting stuff, and focus on what you really want
lost otter
but some how. if you see @mossy zinc im can take almost same setup of abilitity in different runs. in my 40 beated run and 44 beated run
I just don't know how to properly explain the manipulation of the gods in English.
mossy zinc
Yeah, like @trim sigil said. You're skipping gods you don't want. So you naturally end up with very similar builds often.
Plus, you force 1 god in Tartarus and 1 Asphodel.
That's already 2 gods out of 4.
lost otter
I just saw how speedruners manipulate the randomness so that absolutely EVERY race was with the right build.
3 gods from 4 in pool all time same.
mossy zinc
Yeah, I do pretty much the same. But it's more than getting always the same build, it's also understanding all the best options of the gods you get.
lost otter
Time to time i go in full random with pom blossom to find some think intresting)
mossy zinc
Yeah, I like doing that.
lost otter
and to be honest its random gift me artur athena. and Dio crits.
mossy zinc
That's why I picked Butterfly lately on Guan Yu lol. Gotta try new things.
I wanna look more into Hangover crits when they fix it. It sounds very promising.
lost otter
yup....
@mossy zinc i show you not complete build. In private message.it was my test. but game crushed in styx and i do not figth with dad. and its not complete build. becaus only 1 duo was. from 3 posible want i find.
ocean shore
So I tried out claws with HL4. Never again. Took 50 dmg from those club-brute guys. Nope'd the heck outa there immediately.
Even if I was using SD, I'm not good enough to dodge every boss attack.
Ok, I no longer have confidence in what conditions I've picked. Can someone just tell me a setup to run and I can get used to that instead?
I was using that link to the conditions tier-list, but still.....
bronze viper
That tier list is very flawed for high heat
mossy zinc
Yep.
ocean shore
So, can someone recommend me a 32heat setup?
mossy zinc
There, use that.
Eternal Rose in Tartarus, get Heartbreak Strike, then Deadly Flourish, then Heart Rend.
ocean shore
alright.
Can Antos attack the same target twice?
mossy zinc
Oh, and use Shadow Presence instead of Fiery Presence. I just forgot to switch that before the run lol.
Yes.
Bruisers with Electric Shot and Poseidon Aspect are awful lol.
Hurray, +69% cast damage. Thank you, Master Chaos.
Now I just need to not use Attack for 4 encounters lol.
I'm also not recording at 40 Heat, but whatever lol.
lost otter
im probably stop recording my hades figth.becaus i lose my FPS. less that 24 hurts.
ocean shore
this 40% packsize is brutal for me. I didn't check which chamber I was on, but I only had like 1min left in tartarus. It was just td2
mossy zinc
Wow, Poseidon Aspect + Electric Shot sucks at 40 Heat.
lost otter
Wow, Poseidon Aspect + Electric Shot sucks at 40 Heat.
@mossy zinc can you show heat set?
mossy zinc
lost otter
TD punish you?
trim sigil
If it's electric shot maybe JS would help to pull some weight off things?
lost otter
nope.you just dont survive probably
mossy zinc
Asphodel was just abysmal with bloodstones flying way off-screen lol.
DPS in Tartarus sucked. Just barely made TD3 with JS0 CP0 DC0.
lost otter
that all time Hurts my soul) that why i play IS only with poseidon)all another wepon i play with stygian soul
mossy zinc
If enemies in Tartarus need more than 3 casts to kill, that's a real issue.
trim sigil
Sounds like it happens on armored foes rather commonly so
mossy zinc
Yup.
lost otter
we have different pref in cast option on poseidon)
MY looks like poseidon with poseidon)
mossy zinc
I don't have any preference. I don't usually play Poseidon Aspect lol.
Speedrun discord told me Electric Shot was the fastest consistent build. Seems to suck for high heat, though.
trim sigil
The whole gist of poseidon is to improve lodging casts, seems like
But trying to unlodge and gather those is fairly tricky
lost otter
Speedrun discord told me Electric Shot was the fastest consistent build. Seems to suck for high heat, though.
@mossy zinc Probably you need a look how they play with zeus cast.Find bablo. he best cast build players
ocean shore
For Lucifer, does the damage ramp have a cap? I'm refering to the situation where you get the +100% ramp speed.
mossy zinc
I know bablo lol.
lost otter
And probably best poseidon player on speed runs. Speedruners say this opinion.
its not my opinion
ocean shore
And does Greater Inferno affect blast radius? or just radius of the damaging aura
ocean shore
Unironically doing well with lucifer in 32heat
Heroic Aphrodite special + triplebomb, I nuked em3
And i get to keep my styx-dark into hades. yeeeeee
YEESSSSS
Aight. never doing that again (at least for now). Time to farm darkness for badges and that new UI
untold sigil
Tyty
summer glacier
are there any vods of a (successful) literal max heat (64 I believe w hellmode?) run
timber ruin
compact sun
Not sure if someone else has mentioned this here yet or not, but an easy way to cheese a high heat run is taking advantage of the fact that the ||10th clear you complete post 1.0 launch doesn't require you to beat Hades (final boss), if anyone is really trying to get the last skelly statue this makes it a little easier without the need for god mode or something|| did this little cheese strat on hell mode myself 
ripe crane
I'm calling the police
lost otter
I dont see a reason to cut you enjoy and felling as rewardswhen ypu win
and 10 time beat hades not the end)
Reach epiloge. that true ending
sly remnant
but why do it that way
the statue is nice
but beating your dad at such a high heat is the actual reward
lost otter
but beating your dad at such a high heat is the actual reward
@sly remnant agree with you. after every my run. my hands tremoring(shaking) but my high heat masohistic.Its literaly only from several ppl. and i play on claws and artur
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/764819599711272960/766062702225260564/unknown.png
But i like it very much
ocean shore
heat 44 with claws. Yep, he's a masochist.
lost otter
heat 44 with claws. Yep, he's a masochist.
@ocean shore Im training claws at almost same setup. its artur.
compact sun
Right i was just seizing an opportunity and suggesting an ez strat for people who arent comfortable with high heat runs
I can and will continue to beat up my dad regardless of how heated it becomes at times.
and 10 time beat hades not the end)
@lost otter wasnt saying it was the end just pointing out a cheese strat, I've completed the epilogue. And done almost everything in the game now.
daring hedge
sergei inspired me to try my hand at high heat arthur and boy is it rough with TD3 https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/766106786809118771/20201014201308_1.jpg
static plover
Congrats 
daring hedge
thank you!
trim sigil
Timing out pre-styx 
daring hedge
timed out in both tartarus and elysium
with like 30 seconds or less, or something in aspho
game absolutely could have slammed the you lose button and gave me 3sack
but it didn't and i'm very grateful
trim sigil
Arthur TD3
"at least it's not GY spin build"
ember bronze
Finished my 32s: https://twitter.com/HamletEJ/status/1316571128781926400
It was a nonsense run, just spam athena dashstrike nonstop like when I was first learning to play heh
I somehow cannot get competent with sword
but now can leave it alone and have with speed and/or high heat with weapons I like
daring hedge
congrats! i think sword 32 was my last and toughest as well when i was doing that
oh i meant last as in while i was rounding out 32s
sword is now at a fresh 46
ember bronze
I shuffled between all of them, I just never fond something I liked much
I can't get comfortable fighting bosses with Sword basically
it's kind of a sign that I don't know them well
Fists Dash Strike is so much faster that you have much less vulnerability spamming it all the time
true fable
im trying to do shield 32 and almost had him just lost too many stupid DDs earlier in the run and couldnt buy back
for reference what pacts do people usually take early for 32
or is it mostly just down to personal preference
true fable
i had a nice build with aphro/zeus/ares but died last health bar
range on the spin always catches me off in the dark
ember bronze
I take roughly what's in the picture, but usually I will take 3 more Hard Labor
to let me drop either FO2, EM3, or TD3
Sword I just couldn't handle the HL since I was so bad at it
true fable
yeah maybe em4 wasnt the move haha
hollow lynx
for base i go EM2, BP1, MM, FO1, and TD2, then fill up to 32 with conditions as needed (depending on weapon)
usually EM3, BP2, FO2, UC, DC2, and AP1, but i've been dabbling with HL, LC, and CF as well
true fable
for sure
first time i tried routine inspection it gimped me a lot more than i thought it would and i haven't picked it since
hollow lynx
i absolutely hate bp2 though, so i try not to take it lol
true fable
what do you mean teleporting cloning flame wheels are amazing
daring hedge
but bruiser+slugger longspears are so fun
hollow lynx
i love it when speeder shifter dracons teleport so fast i can never hit them 😛
daring hedge
honestly slugger+speeder dracons are some of the worst
just stupidly big damage from getting hit by any single dart
hollow lynx
seeker cloner witches are just so fun and engaging
true fable
what are the dracons?
daring hedge
little skeleton hydra heads
hollow lynx
honestly dracons might make me become an unshakeable mettle gamer
daring hedge
lmao
hollow lynx
i cannot stand getting stunlocked to death by a group of snake pests
daring hedge
also love tartarus chambers that are just motion-sensitive mine fields of speeder+cloner wringers
hollow lynx
don't you enjoy it when elite spreaders shoot their literal 20 orbs per attack which home?
daring hedge
i think slugger+speeder chariots are a solid contender for top 5 worst BP2 pals
either that or speeder+bruiser
true fable
im gonna try 32 again and hopefully not lose a death defiance by stepping on traps in tartarus lol
bronze viper
Bruiser + Shifter Chariots are kind of special too
I think Speeder is worse overall, but nothing says "You're going to lose a minute in this room" like that combo
trim sigil
Speeder shifter also teleports faster so it's arguable which one loses more time
hollow lynx
when speeder shifter bowmen do nothing but dash and teleport so you can never get a clean shot on them 
hollow lynx
bp2 is such a fun and interesting gameplay mechanic
trim sigil
well. It is. Just not in combination with TD and alike lol
hollow lynx
bronze viper
Lol, but really though. I love the texture that BP2 adds to every room. Even if I'm playing Chiron and the seed I'm on generates multiple rooms with Speeder + Cloner Numbskulls
trim sigil
Seeker is worse than slugger because you can't strafe those shots anymore
20 dmg is worse than double potential 0
ember bronze
I still basically always use BP2
hollow lynx
apparently they put some sort of cap on savior but it still gets people sometimes...
trim sigil
They did put the cap yeah. Quite noticeable
bronze viper
(It's not that noticable for aspects that would already trade a kidney to not have DC1 lol)
ember bronze
The occasional awful room feels less potentially run-killing than EM3, or the effect of FO2 on the entire run
trim sigil
Frankly I didn't encounter them with slow weapons just yet though
bronze viper
Savior is always going to be bad for them
trim sigil
Well obviously
daring hedge
on some arthur attempts before the victory and before tweaking the pact off of JS3 i would keep getting stuff like savior+cloner numbskulls and it was kind of hilarious honestly
ember bronze
Savior also produces some disasters during Chaos curses
trim sigil
Yknow, this discussion makes me wonder if we could do the high heat bingo
ember bronze
But overall BP2 is often fine, and usually manageable
daring hedge
yeah, i think it's fully worth the heat it adds
hollow lynx
Savior
also produces somedisasters during Chaos curses
fixed
ember bronze
EM3 FO2 will cost me DDs in any run, in comparison
daring hedge
but of course there are going to be combos that induce a headache every so often
hollow lynx
bp isn't as bad as it was on first release, but it still gets on my nerves sometimes
trim sigil
Stuff like "speeder savior numbskulls", "no patty" "4/5sack", "nourished soul in tartarus"
daring hedge
and at least elysium warriors can get popper which basically nullifies any other more dangerous perk
bronze viper
At the cost of 10-20 seconds per room
trim sigil
A small price to pay for salvation
hollow lynx
playing russian roulette with demeter and poppers
except it's reversed since only one is safe
trim sigil
Oh god please
I have had enough cloner DC2 demeter roulettes
daring hedge
feature, not a bug
bronze viper
Lol, popper ruined a couple of very promising TD3 runs for me today. Got to phase 3 with 10 seconds left, a couple of popper rooms that were Speeder or something instead could've made all the difference . Ho hum.
daring hedge
ah, it's never really lost me any TDs yet, thankfully
hollow lynx
at least the aspho exclusive perk isn't so bad
daring hedge
but part of that might be because it can potentially replace bruiser etc.
which is like
also more time
bronze viper
HL5, seeing the 44444444444444 on my screen from Linker x_x
trim sigil
Lasers + bloodless is literally murdering my soul
daring hedge
it's fine on bloodless since you can just at least coerce them to jump elsewhere real quick and work with fresh ground for a couple seconds
but tightly grouped witches without like, deflect
is obnoxious
hollow lynx
the time it takes for me to react to the stream of 4s i've already taken half my health in damage
hollow lynx
my 32 heat rama run almost ended in aspho bc of bp dracons 😭
daring hedge
BP dracons very frequently put me in the danger zone unexpectedly
i always underestimate them
hollow lynx
it's funny bc my opinions of dracons and rakers have flipped since their release
daring hedge
i think my 52 hades nearly died in a thanatos room with hella dracons
bronze viper
Slugger Dracons end a pretty hefty number of my runs
hollow lynx
now rakers aren't so bad and dracons are the scum of the earth
bronze viper
Especially if I'm RI2, my health pool is probably low enough in Asphodel and I probably don't have Divine Dash yet.
trim sigil
I have a place in my hate list for both of them
In fact, it expands so much that the only enemies I tend to not hate is pests and elysium witches (ultimately because of divine crutch)
daring hedge
lol elysium rooms heavy on elite witches basically feel free with divine dash
you get a face full of your own bullet orbs, and you get it too
trim sigil
A game of baseball
bronze viper
It was more entertaining when the orbs looked the same as the deflected orbs
daring hedge
laughing at this absolute brainfart DC2 rama moment https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/654076105321480226/766146753258586132/oops.gif
bronze viper
Loool. Oh man, I feel that in my bones.
true fable
do most people use dark foresight or olympian favor
bronze viper
Dark Foresight nowadays
Took a bit to catch on but it seems to be the largely agreed upon choice
trim sigil
Can't really sleep on that 100% buff yknow
bronze viper
Way more than 100%, it didn't work correctly before
ember bronze
Yeah, I tried playing RI for a bit, and being without Foresight was the worst part
bronze viper
Lol, I got used to RI2 from pre-1.0. Somehow I'm more comfortable there. RI1 just feels depressing
I think RI2 is worth the 4 heat but I'm not sure if RI1 is worth 2
mental hearth
Trying to do all weapons 32, first done was shield. I’m still a new player, looking for suggestions for second weapon/build that would be the next easiest. Thinking Chiron (switch version not patched yet)
wanton plover
chiron is great. eris rail is another good one
for 32 heat just try stuff out, i think the more important thing is choosing pacts and get comfortable with whatever you’re playing
mental hearth
Standard arty build? The only thing I don’t like about Chiron is feeling gimped when I don’t get at least one of the good hammers. Even though I’ve done upto 16 hunting bounties even with poo hammers.
wanton plover
yes i would do art or aph special and pray very hard for a good hammer kekw
mental hearth
I tried aprho once, it worked but it was still lowish heat so I don’t really know how effective it was
With the legendary it seems good at high heat?
wanton plover
aph scales better with poms but art has better boons in general that she can offer
wanton plover
attack doesn’t really matter. just take literally anything. i usually take something on the attack for UC
mental hearth
Something to apply PS I assume
mental hearth
Yeah that’s the build I mainly use, going for heartrend
waxen relic
exactly
mental hearth
I’ll work my way up to 20 then put some attempts in with both builds and see how it feels
waxen relic
heat configuration is more important than the build tho i think
bronze viper
Think Aphro Attack, Art Special, Athena Dash is the ideal.
@waxen relic This is what I typically go for
Alternatively, you can go Thunder Strike, Heartbreak Flourish for Smoldering Air
Thunder Strike works very well with Static Discharge in this case.
bronze viper
Any? I like Dio's for dealing with groups
And because it's amazing in general, but yeah, dealing with groups is a huge plus
bronze viper
Chiron builds Gauge extremely fast too, so keep an eye out for Clouded Judgment if you don't get Smoldering Air
Or Hunter's Instinct if you're Deadly Flourish
Demeter >> Ares >>>>>>>>>>>>> Artemis
bronze viper
It slows your movement and requires you to be in point blank range to deal damage... so when it ends you're probably just going to get hit lol
Demeter is very unwieldy against fast or mobile enemies, lasts forever, which puts a hamper in your ability to build Gauge since you have to wait for it to end.
Artemis is... barf
So bad
mental hearth
How about dad call on Chiron?
waxen relic
Its not acorn