wraith imp
i do have a minor quibble about the legendary aspects. not one of them has a quick attack and special.
example(s): rama special is quick-ish but attack is slow; guan yu attack is slow but special is much faster (basically exploding launcher hammer upgrade).
it would've been nice if one of the legendary aspects was quick all-around with medium damage as trade-off.
hence, i wanted rocket bomb on lucifer special but AAAMMMIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRR was like "No. DENIED!"
chrome bramble
im finally done with 20 heat on all weapons so i wanna step it up. gonna try 40 heat. does anyone have a good bow build for me? im not sure whats viable on high heat
flat bear
Chiron is very good
honest kernel
I guess the theme for the legendary aspects was "heavy weapons"
honest kernel
wraith imp
I guess the theme for the legendary aspects was "heavy weapons"
@honest kernel
so it seems.
just wish they would've broken out of that trope for one legendary aspect.
chrome bramble
why the demeter attack? just high base damage?
flat bear
For double curse
honest kernel
also bows like
flat bear
+40% dmg
flat bear
Chiron's attack doesn't matter, it's just to tag them. And anyway you'll be shooting it into a blue shield
chrome bramble
but
honest kernel
zag and rama aspect are also great
chrome bramble
wouldnt you want aphro attack and demeter special then? because the chill stacks and the weak doesnt?
lost otter
@mossy zinc ty alote.i find some think from Video you show me about artur Writs13 .i be now use this alote im my next EM4 FO2 and HL5 40 heat.very grateful for this.
honest kernel
I think heras good but no one ran it on 40 yet
flat bear
Higher % on Aphro IIRC, also it can get the legendary charm, which proccs like crazy when you have 11 arrows
chrome bramble
oh thats true, with the 15%
flat bear
Getting the charm will make any boss free
chrome bramble
i actually hate that proc on hades tho 
i feel like it makes him unpredictable
hes charmed and then suddenly yeets out a spin attack right away
flat bear
Also, in my experience, you get Aphro special nearly every run, while Demeter has a bigger range of boons she gives
chrome bramble
hmmm i see
and what about dio special? i heard some person in here recently talk about it, saying the damage is actually nice
for chjiron bow
wraith imp
btw, charged shot hammer for shield makes the shield attack basically into a bow but it's superior to many aspects of bow because (1) it pierces and (2) is relatively quick.
sudden rush with charged shot is so good especially on zeus shield or beowulf. (i would think it would be good on zag shield too.)
flat bear
Never really tried it, doesn't sound too good
chrome bramble
tho i guess you want weak somewhere
honest kernel
u can just do weak attack
but dio sounds like missing out on dmg
idk I never played chiron
flat bear
Also EM3 is free on Chiron
honest kernel
dio is like great on rama but chiron dunno
flat bear
It arguably makes it easier
Theseus just runs around with arrows seeking him instead of blocking
chrome bramble
i always felt like em3 is easier than non EM lol
the dude driving around doesnt bother me
but the spear throw?
🚮
chrome bramble
i still feel like i got hit with it more often
but i havent ran non-EM3 in forever
flat bear
I watch my boyfriend stand still and try to reaction dodge it and want to tear my hair out lol
flat bear
Look at the requirements for charm first
flat bear
Depends how high
chrome bramble
hmmmm
flat bear
If you can't get to the last boss with 2 death defiances then you go stubborn
honest kernel
stubborn is basicially the meta for LC
chrome bramble
honest kernel
since it gives you free heals
chrome bramble
does this look right for 40 heat
with double status
or what are your preferences in here
flat bear
Also I use +3 hp per room
chrome bramble
word 🤔 i love the big heal from darkness
honest kernel
I use dark regen I think its way better
but it got nerfed with less troves tho
still a huge chunk from bosses
flat bear
I usually don't use it because there's a fountain right after
Might matter more on the third boss
chrome bramble
and for heat, do you guys go with time limit and/or EM4?
honest kernel
yeah but the fountain doesnt give full heal
flat bear
EM4 would only ever be for 50 heat, no?
honest kernel
I never go em4 its torture
flat bear
Yeah my point is it's usually enough for the first 2 bosses
chrome bramble
thats what i found too, em4 is free with lower heat, but with additional heat
it gets so much worse
flat bear
Dark regen might come in handy for Theseus
honest kernel
again if you go for lc I'd use stubborn
chrome bramble
(whats lc)
ionic mesa
People prefer Deep Pockets to Golden Touch?
ionic mesa
If you start with Chthonian Coin Purse, Golden Touch gives a lot more.
chrome bramble
but doesnt that screw your build
honest kernel
doesnt matter
flat bear
People usually force their first boon
chrome bramble
if you dont get your boons
honest kernel
yeah you need to force a god
chrome bramble
with 5 time limit its even hard to get out of tartarus not even sure if ill run that
but it gives so much heat
honest kernel
purse is good tho just not in that way
flat bear
You should be able to get out of Tartarus easily
honest kernel
just do td2 then eh
flat bear
A tip to go faster is to take shops, they count as a room but are instant
chrome bramble
yup
honest kernel
and chaos
honest kernel
ngl on td3 you're forced to take chaos anyway
chrome bramble
i find that chaos is pretty much always worth the risk 🤔
unless you dont get anything useful
especially in tartarus
when rooms arent that scary
flat bear
Also for Chiron, basic tips. You can special 3 times each time you tag an enemy, and you don't need to fully charge your attack, a quick one is better
chrome bramble
oh you guys dont run fated persuation for rerolls?
flat bear
AP removes mirror buffs
honest kernel
not when RI exists
honest kernel
yea
flat bear
AP is -1 boon choice
chrome bramble
right
i stayed away from those talents so far up to 20 heat
they sound so punishing
honest kernel
you gotta take a dive into those mechanics now
chrome bramble
could you share a screen of what heat you would run for 4ß if you get time? i'm not sure what i'd use
honest kernel
but sometimes chaos is mega good anyway
honest kernel
uuh
flat bear
You get used to it
I got used to it by running it no matter what, even when I'm doing "no heat"
chrome bramble
hmm i see
wait why do i still get rewards for the bow
it says highest heat reached: 20
flat bear
You might have gone up heat more than 1 at once
You can get rewards for every heat number from 0-20
chrome bramble
ye i thought thats what i did, maybe i messed up with the bow at some point
honest kernel
flat bear
Just redo a 20 heat run
honest kernel
ths maybe?
chrome bramble
underworld customs
wait why not hightened security? i cant remember the last time i did a run without that
i always considered thast basically a free heat
honest kernel
I mean u can do what you want
flat bear
Only takes 1 trap in Elysium to screw you over
chrome bramble
hmm ye thats true, its just 1
and i do sometimes dash into offscreen arros in elysium
🤔
honest kernel
underworld customs is ok as long as you get enough sellable boons
just dont sell ur core stuff
ember coral
When do the heats get particularly difficult. I'm between 10 and 16 for all my weapons and it isn't easy peasy but once you adjust to the change so far it hasn't been thaaat bad
flat bear
40?
ember coral
that is so far away
chrome bramble
i found everything up to 20 pretty easy, but ive been playing this game for 150 hours now
EM 3 + 5 min time limit already give you so much heat
ember coral
the only weapons i play at 5min are sword and fist
ember coral
reloading takes awhile
flat bear
Reload during a dash
ember coral
like the actual animation
chrome bramble
ye just do other things during reload
ember coral
i can chain dash shots reloading between dashes with eris?
flat bear
And it makes up by pulverizing rooms
ember coral
i do dash+shot , reload+bomb
chrome bramble
ember coral
eris i mean. are the other guns worth unlocking and leveling
flat bear
You could look up that run or the WR anyheat run to see how to play Eris fast
chrome bramble
i find that rail is the most limited in varieties
flat bear
Hestia is good too
chrome bramble
i dont think the other aspects come close to eris
a straight 75% damage buff is big
flat bear
Also if you're playing Eris on MNK, do yourself a favour and switch to controller
If only for when you use that weapon
It's night and day between the two
ember coral
i play on controller
i really dislike spear, what aspect do you like as the heats get higher on it
ember coral
that's the spear i play yeah
the other spears feel really awkward to me
havent tried hades and achilles feels awkward
honest kernel
every spear aspect can do high heat
honest kernel
understandable
tidal flame
reasonable
daring hedge
unseeded 50 heat dem fists vid is up now
trim nebula
Good boons for guan yu?
daring hedge
just going with a fresh run after a death or victory, with no resets, no give ups to use that same run seed
chrome bramble
i see, ty
lost otter
unseeded 50 heat dem fists vid is up now
@daring hedge can you link?
daring hedge
lost otter
@daring hedge btw you go in High heat. can you give me adwise for this?i play with out timer. its nerves me alot and i start do mistakes.but i still in 28m window.I use ahillies brasers to Dad. and my goal is Chaos for gold.To i can buy stuff and create i build to Artur.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/763786504949989416/unknown.png
daring hedge
at this level of heat i would recommend trying to get used to stubborn defiance instead of DD, and then going all in with lasting consequences, rather than halfway
lost otter
average run looks like this. with some changes.
im not die in rooms with mobs. i die in dad every time.
with 2-3 dd i start figth
daring hedge
it's not necessarily that you'll die every time in normal encounters, but SD allows you to essentially heal outside of LC's condition
it also kind of forces you to get better at boss fights as a side effect
including hades himself
lost otter
and you have tips for EM4 dad? crushing Urn can cancel healing? or cerberus meteorite can hit one zone twice?
daring hedge
for EM4, definitely get the urns when he starts to heal (easier with ranged weapons, of course, unfortunately) and with the zone-wide target circle sweep, the lower right corner of the arena tends to have less of a concentration of circles
lost otter
Ty
trim nebula
Why do people even like guan yu
A special build on guan yu just feels like an inferior bow
trim sigil
The damage is not inferior for sure, but mmm
daring hedge
special GY mostly shines with charged skewer specifically
lost otter
@trim nebula let Wriste do speedrun) jesus)
trim sigil
I suppose it's more correct to say "for halved max health, the GY damage really is not all that impressive"
rocky lark
Just fought EM4 for the first time!
Managed to win but it's actually pretty hard huh
Even though I had no other pacts of punishment
+Respect to you guys who do that at like 40+
It was blind at least, all I had been spoiled on was that ||there is a p3||
daring hedge
nice! what a rollercoaster of a fight lol
rocky lark
It really is!
Was a very cool experience, the music absolutely shreds haha
I'd kinda like to keep it on as I work through the bounties? But also I used all my DDs and I don't know how consistently I'd be clearing it
Do you find that you found it easier after you learnt the fight more?
daring hedge
oh yeah, i think it's worth keeping on for bounty heat if only for the fun factor
but at high heat it's kind of a nightmare
rocky lark
Fun factor is pretty important though
daring hedge
i do think it's easier after learning generally what hades does that's new, but unfortunately the summons still feel overwhelming
no matter how many times i do it
rocky lark
20 should be okay since there's a fair bit of free heat and EM4 is loads by itself
Hmm I see
btw can I talk about the fight here w/o spoiler tags?
daring hedge
i'm... honestly not sure. it's kind of been talked about here both with and without spoiler tags
rocky lark
I see haha
Well I got ||the stomper guys and also a sneak, the sneak scared me once I realised he was there so I oneshot him with greater artemis call haha. I think I got very lucky on summons in that regard||
||was very much not expecting the darkness on p3 too, and what was the pulsing on his skull casts?||
daring hedge
with summons ||you can also get giant, constantly teleporting soul catchers, which just destroy your acorn if you have it equipped||
i believe the ||skull auras are a slow, like BP pullers||
daring hedge
i guess just waiting until right after their teleport, probably
though i usually save meg for p3
which probably doesn't matter a whole lot
rocky lark
p3 was pretty
Meg for that wouldn't be a bad idea if it's dodgy trying to hit summons
Also sorry Tailesque one last question haha
daring hedge
no problem
rocky lark
||can you not stand right up to him during the p2 360 lazers?||
I think it was damaging so I dashed away but also idk if it's always like that or what
daring hedge
yeah, ||that aura pulse pushes you back and stuns you whenever he does lasers at all||
hollow lynx
||he does a repulse wave during lasers||
daring hedge
it doesn't damage you though
rocky lark
Ahh okay
Yeah there's a lot happening so I guess I didn't even fully understand some of the mechanics hahaha
hollow lynx
tail i was inspired by your vids and now trying to do a 50 heat eris run
rocky lark
At least the streak lived
hollow lynx
so far i have made it to the tart mini boss 👍
daring hedge
godspeed lol
do you have any build in mind particularly?
like zeus or dio attack etc
hollow lynx
i tried zeus for a bit and now switched to overflowing cup
rocky lark
Tail I'll come bother you about high heat at some point in the future after I 32 all weps 
hollow lynx
if i can i’ll try to match vorime in getting cluster rocket
rocky lark
For now I'm gonna fix my eris pb, Good luck Onyx
daring hedge
when i briefly used eris in the past i remember liking rocket bomb because of how immediate the boost was compared to normal
but i'm not sure if that's somehow a bad choice now or something
hollow lynx
i like it myself but i would rather get cluster first, then rocket
daring hedge
that's fair, yeah
daring hedge
Seeker and cloner/+dmg witches 
lost otter
Dad EM4 FO2 so (alote very very bad words) fast. sneaky and laser after that on you back.
acoustic glen
what are good heat builds for spear? aspect of zag?
daring hedge
for high heat, exploding launcher
flurry jab with zeus attack can work too, though zag has no inherent bonuses to that angle
hollow lynx
my last 50 attempt of the day, i made it to hydra!
the game kept giving me spread fire on my lightning strike though, very annoying 😭
hollow lynx
yes lol, i got tired of HL5/LC4/literally all of jury summons
daring hedge
you're stronger than i am, i'm hard pressed to touch AP2 with a ten foot pole now
hollow lynx
so i lowered those first two and got rid of JS (and may have taken EM4 too but we're not there yet so )
AP2 isn't that bad when all you need is lightning strike, which you're gonna get 1/3 of the time anyways
daring hedge
good point, eris is so flexible with just one good core that it's not the worst
hollow lynx
did have one really good run with thunder flourish cluster bomb that unfortunately ended in aspho, had bolts going off everywhere
daring hedge
cluster bomb said: reduced damage on each bomb
and thunder flourish said: i don't care
daring hedge
yeah that sounds really fun
tepid mural
Anyone got some general tips for beating em4 hades? I never had a problem with hades, but I can't beat his em4
Talking about his last phase
Also is there a way to interrupt the healing?
hollow lynx
the urn he's using to heal will be glowing green, destroy it
tepid mural
Ohhhhhh
lost otter
Gilgamesh good?
@trim nebula athena attack. rusthes reflex in mirror.Try combo with artemis some were and aphro on special.Athena+artemis main duo.
trim nebula
I haven’t take Athena other than her dash in a long time
Many better choices
Than a deflect
The only thing keeping me on the fence about Gilgamesh is the fact that enemies deal +50% damage
That is BRUTAL
lost otter
invulnerability during attacks in a wide cone. reflection, almost full invulnerable in fast dash strikes only in gilgames aspect.High damage scailing.backstab damage.
trim nebula
Sounds good
I’ll take Athena attack in Tartarus then
And get aphro in asphodel
But idk where Artemis would come in tho
lost otter
game with High chance offer you ares.artemis and aphro after you take athena attack.DOnt forgot about mirror rusthes reflex
bronze viper
you're stronger than i am, i'm hard pressed to touch AP2 with a ten foot pole now
@daring hedge Lmao, with my recent 50,, it felt kind of like the game trying to sucker me into liking AP2.
"Look, see? Sometimes I'm not always so bad."
BEGONE THOT. I shall not be swayed by your Twin Shots and your Greatest Reflexes.
It started off as an AP1 seed with JS3, but I was getting annoyed after a lot of failed starts trying to get out of Tartarus, and my first attempt after moving the points to AP2 was #blessed
What is your escape rate unseeded from Tartarus with JS3 TD3? (with Rama) @daring hedge
drowsy berry
High Heat Friends -- if you want to try the latest changes, including some balance adjustments to our v1.0 launch -- I encourage you to try our Test Branch. It has a number of targeted adjustments you are welcome to test out and provide thoughts on in #test-branch-discussion.
bronze viper
Already on it!
daring hedge
Same here! 
drowsy berry
Thank you!
bronze viper
Lmao, I knew we'd pay for our hubris. Chiron was nerfed
bronze viper
I was getting really impatient when i was grinding it out. Sometimes I even felt pretty good about the speed and rooms I was getting and would leave with -1 seconds on the clock.
celest cloak
Kind of curious, how much heat counts as high heat? I've been slowly edging it up one win at a time and am still a decent ways away from having trouble, but I know I'll get there soon
Most of my Weapons are around 12-14 heat.
bronze viper
It's kind of subjective, but our conversations here are typically targetted towards 40+
bronze viper
But you're welcome to ask whatever, as long as it's not like, basic mechanical stuff, which should go to the #h1-builds-and-combat. We deal mostly in trying to figure out how to work with multiple pacts interacting with each other
celest cloak
Nah I'm having an easy time with the game so far (most heat at my levels isn't an issue,) but I wanted to get a ballpark for when I might need to peek in here. I can see the challenge rising quickly once you start needing to use certain modifiers.
bronze viper
@bronze viper pretty dodgy honestly lol
@daring hedge That's also part of why I went back to doing Relentless + Dio. It melts Tartarus, but requires you get other stuff to actually be able to finish the run.
Nah I'm having an easy time with the game so far (most heat at my levels isn't an issue,) but I wanted to get a ballpark for when I might need to peek in here. I can see the challenge rising quickly once you start needing to use certain modifiers.
@celest cloak That's definitely true. And don't be shy lol, lots of people pop in and out of here who aren't the like... <20 people who've got verified 40+ clears.
It seems kind of arbitrarily exclusionary but 40 is the breakpoint we've more or less found after which the adage of "Do whatever you want, you can just git gud to win" starts falling apart, so you actually do need to figure out a plan.
celest cloak
I had a 37 win streak that I stupidly broke with some basic mistakes on EM4 final boss >_<
bronze viper
Real talk I feel like I have a 37 loss streak on EM4 lol
celest cloak
Yeah but when you're just running EM4 and JS/DC it's not so bad
hollow lynx
- Wringer: made slightly more common in Tartarus
rip my potential 50 heat run if this makes it to live
💔
hollow lynx
but i am happy about the abyssal blood change
hollow lynx
RIP
drowsy berry
@hollow lynx it should be a very small change
wraith imp
Question: if my attack is doing 136% and my base attack is 80. how much is my attack doing numerically? isn't it 188.8 so ~ 189?
lost otter
you all buff calculate?all from mirror and another boons?
wraith imp
no, i'm just asking purely what my damage number should be without any buffs
if the base is 80, an additional 100% should add another 80 to give it a total of 160, right? so 136% should add 108.8, right? so 108.8 + 80 = 188.8.
lost otter
eris rocket probably?)
lost otter
if the base is 80, an additional 100% should add another 80 to give it a total of 160, right? so 136% should add 108.8, right? so 108.8 + 80 = 188.8.
@wraith imp Yup.but i cant say about chaos boons.some thing changes for me.need check this for sure.
wraith imp
but then i had the one that gives power shot to 500%. I was expecting close to 1,000 points of damage because i also had strong drink 20% (b/c 4 fountains x 5% from epic).
And damage was maxing out at 629 and my immediate reaction was "WTF?!?! Nope. Nope. Nope. Something is wrong."
mossy zinc
629 sounds about right.
wraith imp
Someone else check my math.
Charged shot is 80.
136% of that = 108.8.
108.8 + 80 = 188.8 so 189.
189*5 (for 500%) = 945.
945+189 = 1134
1134 * 1.2 (for strong drink Is 1360.8) on a perfectly executed power shot.
So why is damage tapping out 629?
Am I conceptually misunderstanding something? Is the powershot only applied to base charged shot irrespective of attack%?
mossy zinc
Power Shot is additive.
lost otter
@mossy zinc .can you read my last message in test branch discussion?Becaus i avoid trials. almost 100% every time.
bronze viper
Do you remember if they were Elite or not? Some Elite enemies have a relatively high difficulty rating, which means that only small number of them can spawn
static plover
the 500% is being applied to the base damage not the damage as a whole
same with strong drink @wraith imp
lost otter
Do you remember if they were Elite or not? Some Elite enemies have a relatively high difficulty rating, which means that only small number of them can spawn
@bronze viper it was usual non armored enemy. becaus i have Punishmend about armored enemy +2 afficses.
in another runs i meet almost every time some elites and near 10-15 enemy in trials.
looks like it was broken trial roon.
bronze viper
Yeah, maybe F10 it, not sure.
wraith imp
the 500% is being applied to the base damage not the damage as a whole
@static plover
same with strong drink @wraith imp
@static plover
if true, both are lame especially strong drink. Why the heck would strong drink not be global damage? WTF?
static plover
strong drink is great (without max LC) full heals at fountains and a slight damage buff
most damage pluses in Hades are additive
bronze viper
Is Strong Drink not global?
static plover
it's not
lost otter
i know not so much multiplicative. its backstab and Privileged Status\Family Favorite (.probably zeus after aid.and ares +100 or 150% damage after killing enemy)
im wrong?
static plover
all of those things are additive from memory
bronze viper
The only multipliers are Heart Rend, Hammers that say "base damage" and...
That's mostly it lol
Crit
In general
lost otter
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/763557535407013888/unknown.png im cant agree about this. i need than +800% damage addictive.for this.
bronze viper
Were you using Deadly Strike?
static plover
what boons/mirror/hammers you have that affects attack?
bronze viper
Do you have Breaching Slash and Shadow Slash or something?
Breaching is 400 by itself, with ~100 from Divine Strike, ~25 from Family Favorites, 50 from Shadow Presence, and 200 from Shadow Slash, that's about that number
They're not exposed and no boiling blood though
lost otter
probably i have video of this run. let i see.
bronze viper
I know you like to run Ruthless Reflex, so some of the damage could come from there too.
static plover
Vorime's any heat unseeded wr with Eris also hit around 1300 on occasions without criting
so that kind of damage without crits ain't unheard of
bronze viper
cough pre-nerf Beowulf
lost otter
i can show dio crits on 500-700
static plover
monkaSHAKE
lost otter
static plover
what's the chaos boon?
lost otter
that was in run with 1600 regular 3th artur swing and 7k crits.
its attack and backstab chaos.sword hammer backstab.athena backstab.mirror backstab.reflex 50% and blood in enemy +50% damage.
bronze viper
I assume that's 100ish from the Chaos boon, but no Breaching Slash, hmm
lost otter
im still dont reach posible crit from 3th swing. but for my feelings its 12k crits
with good artemis for crit damage and combo with apro and epic athena attack. and some poms in this.
i dont know how other means about this. but its my choosen way to beat this with artur.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/763786504949989416/unknown.png
to just swing of dad off befor he kill me in melee
bronze viper
Oh, did you succeed?
lost otter
im traning EM4 FO2
bronze viper
Nice
lost otter
its literaly insane.
but i have some progress.i found how deflect 50% of dad spins with my attack.
i just cant avoid 2 spins in row.and i try avoid first one .and deflect second spin.
and start doing progress with this.
bronze viper
Oh, lol, oddly, from just practicing FO2 Dad a lot, the double spins are by far the easiest attack for me dodge
But it is hard with Excalibur because you can't cancel out of several of its animations
lost otter
i just trow spear back to dad.and all skulls too.most harder part 3th phase.when he sneaky appearse some were and instantly start do lasers.
But it is hard with Excalibur because you can't cancel out of several of its animations
@bronze viper that qeustinable moment. when this animation doining. i deflecting)
and becaus its slow.bigger window of deflecting melee atacks.
sour silo
I know this isn't really high heat, but I'm currently grinding every weapon to the heat 10 rewards by just playing 10 heat over and over again. I'm trying out different combinations of pacts, but is there a resource on good ones to always pick for low to mid heat runs? I have EM3, tight deadline 1, damage control 1, and hard labour 1 on at the moment.
And it's been fine, just thinking about when I get to higher heats
bronze viper
Depends on if you do intend to go for higher heats in the future
proud jay
@sour silo https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GC6usKK7_B7h_H2nE4XXkSZ1iVYZa9q_n64VtlFCdog/edit#gid=0
sour silo
Thank you!
proud jay
there's a lot of different opinions on heat, but the faq i linked does an ok job at explaining the basics
my #1 tip is to stick to Dark Foresight mirror option for as long as possible
sour silo
Oh okay I've been using olympian favour. I should switch that over then?
lost otter
intrestin opinion about heat)its all about speed in general.not carefull play.
bronze viper
It's about both
lost otter
When i start play im all time choose DC or CP. becaus its save choose.just do only 2 more hit. dothen matter what targets mor fat. if carefull shoot them or trow cast or skeany backstab.what ever. if all have more 30% if play carefull.
bronze viper
Speed comes as a function of clean execution and practice. The faster things die, the safer you are.
The faster you are, the more Tight Deadline you can run, and the less effective heat you need to reach a threshold.
lost otter
and BP1 feels free.but BP 2 feel REALY damn hard.
bronze viper
Yeah, BP2 is rough.
I typically always leave it on because it makes the game more fun and varied, but it's occasionally quite frustrating
lost otter
some types of enemy with some ability so annoing.like shield guys with shielding blue hearts. and if they in group 4-6 ppl....jesus crist.
i wana bullet in my head.
skulsl or chariots. with shielding and teleportations or speed buff.
tardy path
Savior is really annoying I agree
edgy arrow
sigh another 40 heat attempt crushed by EM4
next up: the same except LC4 instead
probably easier idk
tardy path
You swapping EM 4 for LC4?
honest kernel
its easier imo
edgy arrow
i'm still messing around with my pacts at 40 atm
idk what the best setup is
but i feel like LC4 with SD is prolly easier than EM4?
guess we'll find out
rocky mauve
personally I think EM4 is not worth unless you can't avoid it, especially compared to LC4
edgy arrow
yeah you're probably right
random bough
EM4 is terrifying for close range builds
edgy arrow
i've just been scared to try LC4 for a long time, so i'm a little nervous about it lol
random bough
LC4 is pretty standard at 40+
rocky mauve
LC4 and stubborn defieance is pretty standard, just have to learn to survive bosses
random bough
Unless patroclus blesses you
trim sigil
You do still have to survive furies and hydra and 4sack hades
edgy arrow
furies and hydra aren't a massive problem, unless i get really unlucky with boons
like, that run was basically fine until EM4 hades
except i lost a DD to a random styx room for no reason ugh
rocky mauve
the real bosses are the BP2 satyrs
random bough
BP2 longspears are the worst
tardy path
I think FO 2 Greenshields are just bs
random bough
with HL4 😳
rocky mauve
I feel like I dread very single elysium enemy
tardy path
Elysium is just a vibe check
lost otter
for me 4-6 shield guys with shielding just a nigthmare.btw.what mean 4sack ?
trim sigil
Tbf witches are free as long as you have dat divne dash
In fact they help clearing the room at this point lol
random bough
insert number sack means getting the satyr sack at that numbered room in styx
rocky mauve
speaking of witches, fo2 speeder/homing witches in tartarus are literal run enders for me
there is a narrow duo boon room especially that spams them endlessly
random bough
Divine dash is a staple at high heat anyway it would seem
lost otter
speaking of witches, fo2 speeder/homing witches in tartarus are literal run enders for me
@rocky mauve i like this baseball)realy. nothing for me)
trim sigil
Athena isn't the goddess of wisdom for nothing. She knew exactly how to make the fights as easy as possible
tardy path
I usually swap between Athena and Arty dash depending on how ballsy I feel
edgy arrow
i'm too much of a coward to use arty above 32
i swear i actually play better when i have divine dash, as well
its like, good for morale or something
tardy path
Artemis protects you 
lost otter
Athena isn't the goddess of wisdom for nothing. She knew exactly how to make the fights as easy as possible
@trim sigil yup...i need back to practice EM4 FO2 hades. i play on artur with athena attack)That why baseball
tardy path
Who wouldn't want best girl to protect you
trim sigil
Yes
tardy path
Yes
edgy arrow
answered my own question there
trim sigil
Aint gonna take damage from what is dead
(even foes dropping bombs can be tanked if you end the room before they detonate) 🙃
tardy path
Speed is key
edgy arrow
you don't have to dodge if everyone is dead before you take damage ig
lost otter
you don't have to dodge if everyone is dead before you take damage ig
@edgy arrow good strat) all alredy know about -33% chiron damage on Test server?And lower special damage for all bows. some one fall in depressing after that news?
edgy arrow
wait why
lost otter
dont ask me about it.i just test it 11 hourse ago.
edgy arrow
are a bunch of people doing crazy stuff with bow specials that i don't know about
even chiron doesn't seem overtuned to me, tho i'm not that good with it
lost otter
Test brunch discussion
bronze viper
I confirmed (half jokingly) with Amor that this channel wasn't the cause of the nerf, but Chiron did see a momentary explosion of use in this channel, to amazing success.
maiden geode
hai folks got a decision here
hollow lynx
are the bow nerfs purely to the special?
maiden geode
chaos boon: 40% more gold vs 68% more special damage
bronze viper
I did make some statement at some point that I was pretty sure Chiron was the best bow in 1.0 after that point.
bronze viper
Yeah
lost otter
Not only this chanel. look and hades victory boasting. probably 80% chiron
bronze viper
Wrong channel, and not nearly enough context. 99/100 though take that damage, but I don't remember Zeus's base special damage so it could be pointless. Shrug.
formal gust
what's a good pact setup for eris rail 32
bronze viper
Honestly, whatever you're comfortable with
bronze viper
The only "bad" pact for Eris is CP
formal gust
is that the same for any weapon for the most part
edgy arrow
not really
formal gust
besides damage control for some
bronze viper
No, Eris is extremely unique in that regard
Rama aspect has the quality too, maybe new Chiron (though JS hurts pretty badly)
Most weapons have more than a couple of "hard pass" pacts.
formal gust
is there a resource for recommended 32 heat setup for each weapon
bronze viper
Nope
edgy arrow
ok hit me: what's hard pass for beo?
bronze viper
That would be... incredibly subjective for a lot of the weapons lol
edgy arrow
whatever it is, i bet i'm taking it by accident lol
bronze viper
You'll find people here who specialize in something and can offer specific advice, but it's guesswork for most.
ok hit me: what's hard pass for beo?
@edgy arrow DC, TD3 without Charged Flight
bronze viper
Actually, Beo is a speedrunning weapon, I should watch those, but I think it stops "working" after a heat threshold
edgy arrow
TD2 seems pretty manageable at 40 for me, and i'm not that fast
but i doubt i could come close to TD3
bronze viper
But again, that's where it breaks. I don't play Beo, I've just built up a decent amount of game knowledge lol. Asking 1 person to do this at 32 heat for all aspects, there are like, less than 5 people who are possibly qualified to do that, so you'd have to ask them specfically to do it
trim sigil
Gotta be bold and say most 4th aspects stop working at higher heat because of engaged FO2
Doesn't mean you can't make them work tho. Lol
Proved by beo and rama
bronze viper
Rama doesn't care at all about FO2 in 1.0
edgy arrow
FO2 doesn't seem that bad on beo
bronze viper
And Beo is a shield so...
trim sigil
That only proves the point about fo2 then ig
bronze viper
I'll concede that FO2 is a disaster for Excalibur (but mostly only for bosses), GY spin builds, Gilgamesh non-Merciful End, and Lucifer (because Lucifer is just an implicit disaster as Eris exists)
formal gust
I used to hate UC but it's not that bad actually
bronze viper
Yeah that was my opinion too. When I started playing I hard "noped" that pact, then started watching people play
bronze viper
It really just doesn't matter lol. "Okay Charon, you can have my Divine Flourish or whatever, gg bro"
With AP2, CF2, and RI2, it has definitely ended a very non-zero number of my runs
But I would probably put more blame on AP2 for that
edgy arrow
i mean, occasionally it be like: would you like to sell trippy shot, ice wine or scintillating feast? or something
but that's what rerolls are for
rocky mauve
UC is pretty tame on its own, AP is AP
bronze viper
Never forget, never forgive
https://imgur.com/9SkUA0x
mossy zinc
You're sad you didn't get Rare Crop?
bronze viper
Lol, I'm sad that I had to ditch the epic Dio's Aid, or give up Divine Strike
edgy arrow
wym, you got nourished soul right in front of you
bronze viper
It was back to back too, whiplash of being stoked for getting the epic Aid, then Demter crushing my soul
bronze viper
This was Blood Price, the tooltip was bugged, it was 0
edgy arrow
yeah lol i was assuming LC4
bronze viper
Lol, I'm surprised that bug stuck around for so long. It tripped up so many players, rightfully so.
edgy arrow
be funny if nourished soul put your healing rate above 0% tho
so like, it goes from 0% to 30%
rocky mauve
that would be nice actually
bronze viper
"be funny" = not be literally unsellable garbage
rocky mauve
gives it a purpose
rocky mauve
they should
bronze viper
It would go a long way to make Demeter not a travesty at high heat
mossy zinc
I just want it to be sellable.
mossy zinc
Let me pay 100 obols to sell it.
rocky mauve
i guess cuz it gives an hp pickup
edgy arrow
oh ig
bronze viper
Yeah, the picture I linked is funny because it offers 2 unsellable boons and a trash replacement (on Nemesis aspect)
mossy zinc
To be fair, the exchange would do more damage.
mossy zinc
Now you're thinking like Lord Ares.
rocky mauve
Look how much damage we're taking!
relatable, I'm horrible with excalibur
bronze viper
I tried for 3ish hours yesterday, had a couple of runs go to last hit with Hades and I just fatfingered or spaghetti'd too hard, and I gave up at Excal 40 lol
I am a trash fire with that weapon
edgy arrow
maybe if zag finally used those weights i bought him, he would be able to swing excal at a reasonable pace
bronze viper
Or cancel it before 1.0 launch Gilgamesh's dash upper finishes its animation frames (still waiting a couple more days for that)
mossy zinc
School is on break for two weeks now.
bronze viper
What kept killing me is that Strike2 and 3 on Excal have uncancel-able windows where you have to finish the swing, and it's really easy to accidentally start Strike2 out of a Dash-Strike + Strike1
mossy zinc
What I'm reading is you need to git gud.
bronze viper
Oh for sure
I'm not calling the weapon bad, I am calling me bad.
Weapon hard, me bad.
Ooga booga
lost otter
and you know about artur have 4 hits in real combo. and 2 of them fast?
bronze viper
Yeah, I'm aware. You can Dash-Strike + Strike 1, 2, 3, the first 2 hits are very fast
lost otter
usualy its SpecialDash to cancel. dash strike attack dash 2th attack dash 3th attack.
or even fast cast special dash and dash cancel animation of cast and special at same time
hollow lynx
@daring hedge made a discovery: if you dash at the right time, hazard bomb will still give you the eris boost without damaging you
it's not a complete trap
bronze viper
Lmao, playing with fire there.
hollow lynx
honestly, if i play my cards right, i can handle this tech pretty well
at least until elysium
edgy arrow
@daring hedge made a discovery: if you dash at the right time, hazard bomb will still give you the eris boost without damaging you
@hollow lynx but why when you could just not
rocky mauve
with eris you are obliged to shoot for the highest numbers possible
bronze viper
Or as many numbers as possible, or both. Usually both
edgy arrow
okay does the +75% apply to the damage you take from hazard
because that would be glorious
lost otter
hollow lynx
though i’m still wondering if an epic thunder flourish cluster build would be more damage than the standard epic lightning strike build 
rocky mauve
just use the damage you take to proc revenge boons for even more dps
mossy zinc
But if you damage yourself, shouldn't your revenge boons hit you?
rocky mauve
well if they did would that proc them again?
edgy arrow
hmm gp
lost otter
But if you damage yourself, shouldn't your revenge boons hit you?
@mossy zinc THAT can be realy glorious🤣
trim sigil
Biggest brain play is to put the artemis special boon on that so it can crit you all the time
bronze viper
Can you take Revenge on yourself
lost otter
Im still die in this urns in EM4 FO2 becaus so high temp of figth in last phase....
lost otter
what a hell is going on
edgy arrow
idk but styx is definitely involved
nice
wish i could do 17 mins under any circumstances lol
dawn narwhal
Stacking the dodge from Hermes keepsake made me almost immortal into my gilgamesh fist
rocky mauve
didn't even know you can have multiple touches of styx, never even had more than one spawn in my runs
dawn narwhal
zeus call with the extra damage after call and the maim from gilgamesh so strong. 1 call and I took out like 1/3 Hades HP
3 lives doesn't really matter when your health get deleted
lost otter
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/725021639506526249/764153245609623582
@dawn narwhal im play with athena attack claws.probably its make you immortal for sure. ))
dawn narwhal
Athena? I see
lost otter
Dash strike feels like athena dash)
dawn narwhal
I know
lost otter
Nice to meet you bro on claws.
dawn narwhal
https://youtu.be/e-scD-vroiM I made this tutorial video about gilgamesh dash strike a couple week ago
if you go for on hit effect or dash effect the fist still function very good
if you go damage route of course it is good.
I dont think it is that good for speed run as dashing special feel awkward and I miss that quite a lots even though I have been using fist only for like 1 months
but extra 25% damage (50% if you lucky) on top of free 400 damage is very significant
lost otter
Im play in Athena attack.dio dash.aphro special. and artemis call. almost all time i can take all of this with DR and uptain 20-32% crits for any my attack.
and do 1.5-2k crits
on back
miam also do 2.5k average crit
im not a speed runer. im try HL5 EM4 FO2.arture close to do.claws need huge cractice for me.to deflecting spins and spear trow.
dawn narwhal
I have no clue how atermis call works it feel super weak for me. I just died last time let me show you picture
I only use Zeus call or Apphrodite call or Athena call
the other call I have no idea
lost otter
Becaus i add for base 35% crit chance my 20-32% to total =55 -67% ctit chance and do it from back to one shot hades.
and Dio very fast give me call.
that my way
dawn narwhal
I see
I trust hermes keepsake to keep me safe more
then I just can go raw damage
if you still have picture of your run be sure to share I want to see how your boons is
dawn narwhal
That 32 Heat. Well done.
26 minutes but still 32 heat
all my run recently when I reach hades are like under 17 but my heat is not that high
lost otter
im dont take time almost at all now.
dawn narwhal
what keepsake did you use
lost otter
dawn narwhal
I used hermes so I stick with it the entire time. You must have changed keepshake right?
lost otter
my goal
lost otter
im almost all time pretty know what game offer me after Athena attack. im start with athena 100% of time. and after add good. or all gods or fine (like demeter alternative) i take blossom. in hades it Achillies brasers. becaus dad hit so damn hard and so fast.
tardy dove
what's good for first try at 32 heat?
I figure em4 and then other stuff, unsure if I want speed increase on though
dawn narwhal
I guess hermes always good because it is safest
but you should think your route beforehand. If you want certain gods first you have to use the keepsake of them in the first round[
hollow lynx
not em4 lol
lost otter
if game dont wana give me Dio. i can see only ONE or 2 boon from dio. no reason for this. Becaus i can decrease Hades attack speed from demeter.
its good to for me.
dawn narwhal
I never really care about enemies attack speed or movement speed
but may be I just 24 heat
dawn narwhal
my 24 heat is max extreme measure and max speed enemies
I see
except from the zombies enemies in larva area, I dont think the faster attack speed on enemies matter much even on bosses
the zombies enemies attack so fast and if they have armor there is no way to stop
lost otter
i dont have huge time. becaus standar hades hits 80 on my heat. if i miss skull and dont deflect its probably -320 hp instantly.
next venture
HL4 is much easier to deal with than FO2 with bosses IMO
lost otter
HL4 is much easier to deal with than FO2 with bosses IMO
@next venture I try Hl5 EM4 FO2
with others heat
FO2 becaus i better practice.
dawn narwhal
My 24 is Extreme measure 4, Forced Overtime 40%, Tight Deadline 7:00
the run ended in 17mins so I could very well run it on tight deadline 5 mins and get 27 heat
next venture
that's brutal, EM4 alone still ruins my day, that's what forced me to switch from FO2 to HL4
dawn narwhal
I always ramp up extreme measure and forced overtime as I dont really notice the different in enemeisspeed
Why you play on HL5 monkaS
it is double damage
lost otter
yup that brutal.But i do it for my self. not for leader board or some think.
dawn narwhal
I would rather middle management and underworld customs than hard labor max
I super like underworld customs to be honest
it give a feeling that I have to choose boons carefully and be aware of fated reset
lost otter
I would rather middle management and underworld customs than hard labor max
@dawn narwhal lets i find this in wiki to i can translate it for my self
dawn narwhal
the 2 option right above FO
lost otter
MM already 2 and UC too. i have it in my 40
dawn narwhal
I see
mossy zinc
@tardy dove "easiest" pacts at 32 depend a lot on your aspect, the build you're planning, and your skill level.
lost otter
it's just a challenge for a mazahist. nearly.if i beat it i change FO1 to FO2.and DC1 to DC2.
and @mossy zinc ty for adwise about save game. i use it alote.very grateful.
mossy zinc
Sure thing!
tardy dove
I definitely want em4 in there to practice that fight, beat it a couple times but only at like 16 heat
mossy zinc
The one general advice I can give is that TD has anti-synergy with JS CP DC. So you typically want to avoid a combo of those.
Although, TD2 with some points in the others isn't too bad on most aspects.
lost otter
I definitely want em4 in there to practice that fight, beat it a couple times but only at like 16 heat
@tardy dove for first time take Abyssal Blood. its realy help. 25% slow and -25% damage.
mossy zinc
I would also avoid HL5 unless you're super confident.
HL2 or something is alright, though, if you need a couple more points.
tardy dove
demeter seems like she'd be good for high heat too
because chill makes it easier to be safe
lost otter
also @mossy zinc you give me Wriste video arture. i find Abyssal Blood from him.never use it befor.that another ty.its help alote too.
mossy zinc
Eh, not so much. At 40+, she's easily the worst option because she has 2 tier 1 boons that do practically nothing and that you cannot sell.
If we want utility like that, mostly we're going with Deflect or Weak or both. Can't really beat those two.
lost otter
that why Abyssal Blood. its slow and weak at same time.
edgy arrow
is she worth it for duos like ice wine, or no?
mossy zinc
No one really goes for cast builds that rely on Duo boons at 40+ unless you RNG into it.
I think there are like 1 or 2 actual cast builds up there?
edgy arrow
ah, fair enough
lost otter
and i have all 3 utility at same time. slow 25% weaknes 25% and deflect.
edgy arrow
rip my beo dreams
mossy zinc
Beowulf is great for high heat. But I wouldn't bother with trying to get Ice Wine, personally.
Just get Passion Flare. Much more consistent.
tardy dove
do abilities have a max level?
edgy arrow
you’re probably right
lost otter
i have only 14 max.
tardy dove
or do they just plateau at a point/the buff isn't worth it
mossy zinc
No max level in theory.
edgy arrow
atm i’m constantly switching between passion and trippy, which is probably just inhibiting my ability to learn either well
mossy zinc
Buffs are worth it whenever they let you kill in fewer hits and meaningless otherwise. So, it depends.
@edgy arrow or helping you because you have fun lol.
edgy arrow
true lol
mossy zinc
@lost otter yeah, I've been meaning to look more into Abyssal Blood.
I just tend to want to run TD3 because it's fun, so the DPS from Boiling Blood helps a lot lol.
lost otter
Btw rigth now Vorime and Wriste practice all weapons. you can find how they move and hadle. To learn some tricks and tips.
I just tend to want to run TD3 because it's fun, so the DPS from Boiling Blood helps a lot lol.
@mossy zinc Naahh. usual run artur can do 5k crits. and claws do 1.5kcrits .i need survive in my madness)
And beo in weapon pool.
formal gust
I don't know when and when not to go benefits package
bronze viper
If your'e not comfortable with the aspect, don't. If you are, do
It's worth a ton of heat, so you always have it on if you're comfortable with it
lost otter
It's worth a ton of heat, so you always have it on if you're comfortable with it
@bronze viper true. my choose not usual.i dont have time limit. you @formal gust can do some thing same for you seft. to have more free game play.
edgy arrow
the game is like twice as fun with BP imo, so i just never turn it off
that might not be great advice tho if you want to actually win lol
dawn narwhal
what is BP
lost otter
its a bug or all normal?
dawn narwhal
guess not
I think Hades 3rd lives is exact same as 2nd lives. But you have diablo 2 vision now
nothing changed much except that he has his health recovered
RIP
mossy zinc
Can you spoiler-tag EM4 screenshots please?
maiden geode
I did my first 32 heat clear
that said it was on chiron bow
so I gotta work on the others
lost otter
nothing on screenshots. literaly 0 informations. i can. but its kind a strange in High Heat topic do not know EM4 honestly.
maiden geode
my sword can't even clear 20 heat lol
ember bronze
I'm generally a fan of abyssal blood
additive damage bonus that may or may not affect damage that's important to your build
vs. multiplicative defense/utility that's always good
(Hey how do you do pictures in this channel)
edgy arrow
you gotta use a link
daring hedge
@hollow lynx the one million iq hazard bomb tech 👀
hollow lynx
honestly i think it can work
ember bronze
How exactly does Merciful End work? It has a listed damage amount (40). So if someone has a Doom on them, and I hit them with Athena, it's basically an added 40 damage each time, but the Doom still works as normal?
lost otter
(Doomdamage +40 from ME ) * Impending Doom scail= total damage from prock ME
with out ME its look: Doomdamage *Impending Doom scail = total damage.
athena can add 40 damage only once and immediately do all doom damage. and doom disappear
you stop waiting time to doom deal damage. all build about Curse with doom and immidiatly proc doom damage from athena.
ember bronze
Ok, so it ends the doom immediately, for full damage + 40?
hollow lynx
yes
daring hedge
Which makes impending doom just a straightforward upgrade
Since the downside doesn't matter
chrome bramble
which keepsake do you guys prefer for hades?
achorn? skelly?
i guess acorn makes more sense with damage being higher
trim sigil
Tooth has almost no point because even on HL0 hades attacks finish you in 5 hits
ember bronze
For survivability pick, Acorn is usually best A4 keepsake
trim sigil
Most people use acorn, byeah
ember bronze
Skelly is 100HP plus a little overflow
Cerberus is 125HP if you have 3 lives
Acorn is almost always more (sweeps are 40, skull novas are 20), and scales with HL
trim sigil
Acorn can be way less if you get nasty spawns in p1, but most of the time it is more
Ultimate meme is the butterfly bol with no divine dash
15 effective hp
ember bronze
Wait, what's that?
lost otter
in my heat hades do 2 attack pet second 80 each. its 2 min figth. accorn only 5 hits. i take ahilies bracers for -30%. its can be 400 hp from accorn. or mitigate 24 damage from every hit in bracers.BUT accorn can be only on 240 hp benefit (5 waves) if avoid direct hits from hades.
i even dont lvl up tooth.🤣
random bough
tried 44 heat Hestia and man the damage gets underwhelming on CP1 EM4
Does Hades ||heal a limited number of times||?
lost otter
Does Hades ||heal a limited number of times||?
@random bough in traning i saw it ||7 times in one figth||
random bough
wow
Thats basically unlimited isn't it
||7 times before 3rd phase/dying or 7 times after which he just no longer healed||
Also wdym training, is there a mod?
lost otter
||it was total 7 times. i dont live to long with hades 80 damage base and 160 if skull in you||
random bough
So you saw it ||7 times|| before you died
lost otter
yup
random bough
Guess that's what happens when your dps is too low
lost otter
i just learning patreons and move set. and weak parts in them.
lost otter
The ||healing|| just seems like lazy design
@random bough did think so.when you can do 6-8k crits.
ember bronze
I've only done EM4 on low heat, but I thought the idea with that mechanic is that it's avoidable
You just have to pay attention to pots more, making the might more complex?
chrome bramble
just cleared 34 heat first try and didnt even have great boons 🙏 high heat runs here i come
lost otter
i try destroy part of ||pots|| when i figth. but you know my choose of heat looks mazahisticks. its not comparable to normal player.
lost otter
Also wdym training, is there a mod?
@random bough Im create i build. come to hades.save game. copy. and try beat him again and again. in any situtation after figth i replase my save with copy (saved befor figth)
you dont take double dash?
@chrome bramble nope. i take bonus dashes from hermes.i need this 50% dodje and 50% damage.
uncut wigeon
anything cool in the test branch?
also a lot of new names, or feels like, over at high heat
😮
lost otter
bad question. what is high heat for your understanding?
bronze viper
20, 32, and 40+ are the logical breakpoints for discussion "high heat"
trim nebula
Low key I think chaos shield is underrated
bronze viper
20 is a pretty number, and coincidentally encompasses the point at which difficulty starts ramping up, You also stop getting rewarded with bounties at 20, so it makes sense that "high heat" would be the people doing it explicitly for challenge vs. in game rewards. 32 is the last number the game recognizes, and 40 is the arbitrary point that's a pretty number that we've found at which the game gets srs business hard
Low key I think chaos shield is underrated
@trim nebula I agree. It's just a natural reaction for people have (myself included) to see something nerfed so hard. It doesn't mean it's bad, but it's hard to not see it for what it was and find it lacking.
trim nebula
I’ve never played before 1.0
So my first reaction to chaos shield is just this
And I think honestly it’s really good
Reliable with good damage, and an ability to block
Versatile with builds
lost otter
my opinion 20 heat realy easy handy.reach this point first.some practice and all be in pocket. and almost any weapons can be good.Just choose you lovely weapon and go.
bronze viper
I'd be careful with that mentality. We kind of joke here and tease each other for "only doing x heat," but we should keep in mind that there are a huge portion of the community that haven't yet even finished the game once
hollow lynx
people saw chaos nerfs and thought it went from amazing to awful, instead of great to good lol
lost otter
I'd be careful with that mentality.
@bronze viper probably you rigth.
trim sigil
2.8% finished 16 heat, that already says a lot
bronze viper
No... it was definitely amazing lol. Now it's good. It's such a relief to no longer be able to answer new players always asking "what is the best aspect" though. You had to be some serious level of contrarion to not answer "Chaos" with a straight face pre 1.0
The stars aligned, the answer is now "whatever you enjoy playing most"
somber rose
I made a weapons tier list for 32 heat and I'm posting it here so you can tell me how wrong I am about everything
https://ibb.co/qNj6VD2
bronze viper
This is 1.0?
somber rose
yeah
bronze viper
Every bow is S-tier, and I'm not biased.
Hera is A maybe
Until someone proves me wrong
somber rose
read the tiers
it's not about getting huge damage but about safety and how easy it is to play
bronze viper
We have an unseeded Rama run at 50 heat lol
trim sigil
Zag sword being C and above three weapons clicks the wrong way with me ngl
lost otter
Hm.... i be change Eris with Hestian in plases.
bronze viper
If that doesn't say "safe" I don't what does. Chiron is the easiest bow to play by a long shot too, and it is being tested at the moment for 33% damage nerf.
hollow lynx
i firmly believe eris is now one of the best aspects in the game
bronze viper
I think Eris is the best, yes
hollow lynx
also i don't agree that it's harder to build and play than hestia
somber rose
I was on the fence with putting Chiron on S or A mainly for the building part
but it can indeed be S
hollow lynx
eris' whole shtick is that it literally works with everything if it wants to
trim sigil
Nemesis could definitely be A because of insane integrated damage
bronze viper
Chiron has kind of braindead build paths. Put literally anything on the special. Hell, even Doom works with Dire Misfortune > ? > Profit
trim sigil
Lower than current Eris, ofc
somber rose
Chiron has kind of braindead build paths. Put literally anything on the special. Hell, even Doom works with Dire Misfortune > ? > Profit
@bronze viper yeah but like it's much better if you can get priv status
bronze viper
Eris' build paths are Lightning Strike > Collect Bounties
It's not. I take Family Favorites every time no matter what
The 10-15% additive increase is completely irrelevant most of the time
hollow lynx
the new meta is eris thunder cluster, and imma prove it
somber rose
But it's perfect for priv status... since you stick an arrow in them for the target effect anyway
lost otter
that why i say. change eris and hestian in plases.
bronze viper
Privileged Status directly compared to FF assuming 100% active rate is quite literally Urge to Kill, the lamest boon in existence.
somber rose
that why i say. change eris and hestian in plases.
@lost otter Hestia is literally spend a split second shooting, and focus more on evading. With Eris you need to stand in place and spray. It's less safe than Hestia because of that.
bronze viper
Anyway, disregarding the PS FF thing, you can literally just boot up a run with Chiron with Coin Purse, take what the run gives you, and profit. It has flexibility comparable to pre-nerf Chaos
somber rose
plus you need to shoot yourself with bombs etc. more factors to consider during combat
Zag sword being C and above three weapons clicks the wrong way with me ngl
@trim sigil I'm willing to put Zag in the garbage tier with them. I was on the fence.
wild dove
Is Demeter legendary as underwhelming as I think it is? I calculated that it's roughly equivalent to a 11% multiplicative and global damage buff with 50 blast damage on death
bronze viper
Eris is very safe. If you aim the bomb the distance your attack is, you end up dashing to that point anyway, and no time is lost
You get a free bomb placement every reload
somber rose
Eris is very safe. If you aim the bomb the distance your attack is, you end up dashing to that point anyway, and no time is lost
@bronze viper It's still harder to play effectively than Hestia
bronze viper
Lol, you say that until you enter a room with Savior or tons of DC Flamewheels
graceful prawn
man DC dumpsters Hestia aspect, it's rough
somber rose
I know Hestia is not ideal in some rooms, but still overall, especially when considering boss fights
man DC dumpsters Hestia aspect, it's rough
@graceful prawn Every weapon is judged based on taking a PoP that fits it. So with Hestia I don't take DC. With the shields I don't take TD2.
bronze viper
But we're talking about 32 heat, right? Hestia's jimmies get rustled so hard by some pacts, and at 32 it's not easy to dodge all of them. JSx, DCx, BP2 are all potentially terrible. Eris doesn't have bad pacts.
somber rose
I see most of the responses are about stuff I had second thoughts about anyway, so I don't mind changing accordingly
bronze viper
TD3 with any health or mob density pacts is also a non-starter
daring hedge
yeah i honestly don't think eris is super hard to use, really. the only learning curve is getting used to using your special for the constant boost
otherwise it's smooth sailing
bronze viper
Also I don't think relatively difficulty is fair to figure into a tier list at 32. I assume for the people the tier list would be valuable for, they're looking for which weapons are worth the time investment to progress in
So the skill barrier should be figured into that.
somber rose
But we're talking about 32 heat, right? Hestia's jimmies get rustled so hard by some pacts, and at 32 it's not easy to dodge all of them. JSx, DCx, BP2 are all potentially terrible. Eris doesn't have bad pacts.
@bronze viper Benefits package rarely gives them the DC buffs. For me it's free points regardless of aspect. The others you mentioned I avoid just fine with stubborn defiance+LC+CF
hollow lynx
yeah i honestly don't think eris is super hard to use, really. the only learning curve is getting used to using your special for the constant boost
otherwise it's smooth sailing
until ap2 gives you spread fire or hazard bomb 💔
somber rose
Also I don't think relatively difficulty is fair to figure into a tier list at 32. I assume for the people the tier list would be valuable for, they're looking for which weapons are worth the time investment to progress in
@bronze viper At lower heat it you can just stomp everything so there's no point in ranking the weapons
bronze viper
Bruiser, Speeder, Shifter, Cloner are all pretty problematic. Sometimes for weird reasons. Some enemies are sometimes close to unhittable with Speeder with Hestia lol, the auto-aim just can't keep track
somber rose
at 32 you feel the difference between aspects
daring hedge
hey that's not eris' problems though now are they 
hollow lynx
tbf i didn't actually find lightning spread fire too bad, but that's because spread fire is spread fire lol
somber rose
Ok so I'm bumping chiron and Eris to S, and sending Zag sword to D. Anything else?
hollow lynx
but hazard bomb teching is a little hard when you've got an entire room of angry speeder shifter dracons firing at you
bronze viper
Like, hitting FO2 EM3 Theseus with Hestia when he's travelling in a circle is completely pointless unless you're directly behind him
or in front, but that has obvious problems lol
somber rose
I put all the shields are in S because of access to bullrush btw.
bronze viper
Zag aspect doesn't really get to use its shield very much, and Zeus virtually never at all
Actually, nvm, I take that back, can you bullrush while your shield is travelling? I have never played the aspect.
hollow lynx
you can use your attack normally with zeus
somber rose
You can during zeus special
daring hedge
you can but zeus wants too much micromanagement of the special to spend too much time bullrushing
especially with TD3 etc
bronze viper
Okay, that makes sense. From the videos I've seen they never shield so I assumed you just couldn't
somber rose
as I said I don't play with TD2 with shields
daring hedge
i think my 45 run with it had empowering flight, and i still didn't attack all that much, because it pushes enemies away from your special, etc.
somber rose
anything other than changing chiron, eris, zag sword?
bronze viper
I think before we start isolating singular problems with the aspects on the list, we should figure out an agreed set of ground rules for what the list is even trying to convey
daring hedge
right, because shields being S simply for blocking is
questionable for high heat in particular
somber rose
it's for 32 heat and I found it amazing
daring hedge
i don't personally consider 32 high heat but sure, if it's for a 32 context
they work fine
somber rose
I said it's a 32 heat tier list
daring hedge
i just came into this conversation so shrug
bronze viper
You came in basically at the beginning
daring hedge
i didn't but sure
