How come your run is already added but my 43 Chiron still isn't. 
#h1-high-heat-strategies
trim nebula
What different about EM4 hades
dull scroll
||third phase||
loud raptor
was anybody able to complete a fresh run without athena core boon
bronze viper
Tailesque did in Blood Price, I think 50 on Hades aspect without Athena
bronze viper
Also congrats @daring hedge on the 50 Rama 
bronze viper
Lol, that's something. I haven't even decided yet if I was being a salty scrub or if I actually had a point.
daring hedge
i think bablo's recent dio eris at 50 did the same, and i know the argument could be made that it was for speed's sake only.. but i do think it's also because no EM4 is infinitely safer
bronze viper
Something about double Sneaks really disheartened me from the experience. It's pretty telling to have fond nostalgia for Super Elite Chariots
daring hedge
yeah, that first phase is just too brutal most of the time
i like hades' own new moves and phases, and they're fun, but boy howdy i don't think the summons are very fun
bronze viper
I can't even imagine on Rama, since the Sneaks cleanse the debuff on each teleport too. So gross.
loud raptor
I can't even imagine on Rama, since the Sneaks cleanse the debuff on each teleport too. So gross.
So annoying on chiron too
bronze viper
At least Chiron can apply burst to them though, With Rama you have time for basically a special + 0-charge attack, which you have to do like a billion times to get through the inflated armor
daring hedge
yeah, even the standard miniboss version is a pain with rama if you don't have a hammer or attack boon yet
just such an awkward fight
bronze viper
Zag aspect may be the best bow for EM4 specifically for that reason. Reliable safe burst
Also, as insult to injury, you can't Poseidon's Aid + Rip Current them off the face of the earth like most every other miniboss. They're knockback immune
daring hedge
and being able to brush off dio call burst instantly, and... well, can aphro charm persist through teleports, actually? since the sneak would then technically be "yours" and going off of your allotted time
bronze viper
Charm + Smoldering Air would be nice technology to try in EM4
Obviously untenable at low 50's but it could work as long as you can afford to not take AP2 or RI
daring hedge
right
bronze viper
If it works it would be enough to allow a lot of aspects the control needed to actually live through phase 1
daring hedge
i think it would be worth it alone for the satisfaction of turning dad's overpowered summons against him
definitely sounds fun if it works well
bronze viper
At the very least turning Dad's spins against the summons should be fine
daring hedge
ah true, yeah
bronze viper
Which is very easy in EM4 since he always double spins
I'll be extremely curious to see who cracks 45+ melee EM4
wanton plover
sounds like misery for a non bablo. if i had to try id go for arthur or just a ME fist
my absolute biggest issue is the adds without doubt
bronze viper
I'm not super convinced Malphon can do it easiest. Arthur I would be even more skeptical. My vote is probably Nemesis. What does the skull aura actually do? Is it damage or a debuff?
It looks kind of the same as Dad's new aura so I assume it's damage
If so, hoo boy Malphon has its work cut out.
mossy zinc
Is EM4 affected by JS at all?
bronze viper
I'm not sure I see a way it could be.
mossy zinc
Could affect the summons.
bronze viper
I haven't stood in it yet lol (Bow life). I assumed it was damage.
Nope, all the summons are minibosses
Same with Dad's new aura. Looks terrifying, not standing in that.
mossy zinc
Hmm I don't even know about EM4, but just having to fight EM3 with Malphon is such a drag. 
bronze viper
Dad and Skulls have a permanent pulsing aura (that we apparently don't know what it does lol). Dad during his laser phases. It is around the size of.... Zeus' Aid maybe on Skulls, and maybe a bit bigger than Trippy Shot on Dad.
daring hedge
i believe the pulse during EM4 lasers is just a stun and pushback
no damage
basically to make sure you can't cheese them in the same way you can with non-EM4 phase 2 part 1
mossy zinc
School is on break after this week, so I'll probably study the fight then.
bronze viper
It's fun. Fun. FUN.
(no but really it actually is fun. The game is definitely not balanced to have all the pacts active, we're just masochists)
trim nebula
@daring hedge who do I focus first in em3 heroes fight
bronze viper
Both of them, assuming TD constraints.
trim nebula
No td
bronze viper
You end up having to target swap several times anyway because of spins and Theseus just not deciding to be in any one place for any amount of reasonable time.
With no time constraints it's best to get rid of Asterius, yeah
mossy zinc
You first focus on your own silly self for taking EM3 for no good reason. 
I timed out the other day because Asterius decided to spin like every other attack. Very fun.
daring hedge
theseus doesn't make an active effort to target you specifically until his god call phase, so i find it's safer to focus on asterius first if only because he's aggressive and constantly, actually targeting you
you can kinda let theseus roll around and do his own thing until asterius is gone
bronze viper
Theseus smells Acorn blood though
daring hedge
lmao
mossy zinc
What do you mean, being shot from off-screen with no time to react is the most fun part of the game.
mystic apex
is there no good way to avoid that? I've just been trying to avoid the middle of the arena but he still gets me sometimes
trim sigil
I'd insist that getting daedalus hammer where 2 decent options are blocked by AP2 and 3rd one makes you dead is more fun
mossy zinc
Yeah, there is. Don't pick EM3.
mystic apex
but big heat number
bronze viper
Avoid camping the center of the stage for 2 reasons: Theseus always shoots bullets down the middle, and Asterius' charge is next to impossible to deterministically dodge from the center of the stage
mystic apex
ah yeah that second part makes sense too
mossy zinc
Why dodge when you have a shield?
mystic apex
b/c I pre-loaded 4 casts like an idiot and I don't want to waste time picking them up again 
daring hedge
theseus alters his movement before his bullet blitz, to the point where he chugs along slower than usual and doesn't shoot off any bombs in prep for it. it basically comes down to keeping tabs on him and knowing when he's about to turn around a pillar and go down the middle
of course, easier said than done half the time
because you'll be fighting asterius on the opposite side of the arena that theseus even is rolling around
bronze viper
But yeah, bullets always go down the middle, which is helpful. It's not always easy though. Bombs and Asterius shockwaves will very frequently force you into the middle. Just prioritize not being there for long.
mystic apex
mhm I see
mossy zinc
It's not like the bullets only go in a straight line, anyway.
bronze viper
Yeah, Theseus is an awful driver
daring hedge
yeah, basically a pretty big wedge slice of the arena becomes acorn cemetery
mossy zinc
What I like about EM3 is the dialogue and art.
bronze viper
Lol, I think the fight is fun too. I just think it's a tad aggressive with FO2, but that's to be expected
Asterius is the best boy
daring hedge
wish i could get his poster for zag's room 😔
mossy zinc
It's more that I'm trying to find something I enjoy about the fight, and that's the best I can come up with.
mystic apex
too bad no zag costumes, I'd love to be that campy
tardy path
What I like about EM3 is the dialogue and art.
@mossy zinc Holy crap, did Nyaan just compliment EM 3???
shadow zodiac
can someone tag me the vid of someone destroying asterius and theseus in like 5s
i need to show it to someone, to prove smtg
edgy arrow
Try killing the enemies faster?
-Hypnos, probably
chrome bramble
man
i dont know if EM4 is worth it unless you really need it for very high heat
the fight is pretty tough, and it also makes 5min time limit harder
had a really nice build just now with hera bow but bad luck with tunnels and then lost 3 lives in the hades fight because time ran out
do you people run EM4 and if so do you also go 5min time limit?
honest kernel
I dont run em4 its painful
u dont need em4 for high heat
all 50+ runs so far dont have em4 I think
chrome bramble
which one is talos
maiden geode
magnet
chrome bramble
mhh i dunno, aphrodite sounds right
tho demeter is just straight up better i think with fists
keen kettle
How well does Hades Aspect perform in 32+ heat?
honest kernel
very good
chrome bramble
can never go wrong with divine dash 😌
except on shield maybe
also ive heard of a forbidden build with rail
zeus attack + poseidon dash
have yet to test it
maiden geode
someone in the other channel was complaining that it sucked
recommended a cast build lol
hmm.... if I were to level only one exagryph aspect which one
hollow lynx
eris
hollow lynx
i just keep one companion on (battie), don't think there's really much of a synergy between weapon/companion
just put on the one you like the most
maiden geode
it seems like too much work to target special on myself
is it normal to just dash into a tapped special?
I'm a controller player btw
bronze viper
Are you talking about for Eris? It's not that much work, you get used to leading your shots forward when you're in approximately Eris' range + special lob range
You literally just press Special and hold towards your target, ezpz
It's a lot more nuanced when things get hectic but what isn't
Re; Companions, some aspects that pump out great damage, but are generally pretty vulnerable (like Nemesis and Malphon) benefit a pretty decent amount from Skelly or Dusa, which both offer great control in Elysium rooms, against Exalted Shades and Chariots. Dusa's duration was also pretty hugely buffed, she does a respectable amount of damage to bosses too. Skelly has the added bonus of totally trivializing EM2, which doesn't seem like a huge deal, but it's not an easy fight at extremely high heat for melee aspects.
But for the most part it's user preference. Meg appears to be the "meta" choice after her buff in Blood Price, but Antos -> Meg -> Thanatos occupy a spectrum of reliability vs. damage output.
mossy zinc
Melee doesn't work well with Rib.
Oh, I guess you could use Skelly in Elysium chambers or whatever.
Problem is any AOE that targets Skelly would also hit you if you want to attack those enemies close to Skelly.
mossy zinc
I don't like to use summons in regular chambers. But I have Antos pretty much always now, so they help if I need to.
patent umbra
I love Antos
Also, I have questions on chamber offerings randomization progression. Though this might be getting into data-mining territory, so I'd understand if no one really knows/can say, but I figured if any channel knows, it'd be this one. (These questions are in terms of if the chamber offers gold laurel rooms or blue laurel and how it works.)
- Is the only time Chaos essentially "adds" a chamber when you take him before the shop before a boss?
- Does the above apply for Infernal Gates too?
- In terms of chamber offerings RNG, do Charon shops count as metaprogression, gold laurel progression, are they excluded from that formula, or does it depend on if you buy a boon?
- Same question with ! rooms.
- Do Trial of the Gods count doubly?
hollow lynx
1 and 2 are yes, they only add a chamber if taken before a pre-boss room
mossy zinc
Any chamber adds +1 to the chamber count. So taking one directly before the pre-boss room adds 1 extra chamber over a "normal" run.
dull scroll
Is the standard length 70, or 71 chambers?
Or hold on, that's max
Assuming you take all styx rooms
dull scroll
Min styx is 2 paths. Each path is what, 5-6 rooms?
So we're looking at around 45-48?
Though maybe coming back to the main styx temple room also counts, since it triggers side hustle
trim sigil
Minimal is 3 + miniboss, so 4 (or 3 if fountain path)
patent umbra
Definitely 2. My last run was a 2 path one
maiden geode
24 heat clear
hurray
it feels like after all the crap I go through hades is a breather
trim sigil
Definitely 2. My last run was a 2 path one
Ah, I meant rooms per path, not paths themselves
heavy stream
limpid nymph
that happened to me on 41 :/
trim sigil
Had a successful 4sack on 40 which may have survived 5, but generally it's just 
maiden geode
I have used athena call to tank the timer
geez athena just keeps getting better and better
stark cape
i thought you still take timer damage even if invulnerable
trim sigil
I believe it does go through, but meeting TD with Athena Aid is fairly rare occurrence
maiden geode
well in any case
it seems that I take ~7 minutes to clear tartarus, ~5 minutes for asphodel, ~9-10 minutes for elysium
and I did a 7 min 3-sack styx, but only with the help of triple bomb
so clearly I'm not using my time well enough
patent umbra
You'll get there. Honestly, it's just practice and learning the builds/boons. And in case you aren't already: don't stand around. Use the pause function for things like thinking about what to buy in a Charon shop or deciding which door to take.
maiden geode
yeah I do that
patent umbra
Yeah, then it's just skill building. Practice
mossy zinc
What pacts did you run?
mossy zinc
DC2 will slow you down.
maiden geode
it does, but it's in everyone's pacts for the weapons I am learning
mossy zinc
What weapons?
I don't know any weapons that "everyone" uses DC2 on.
Anyway, I think without points in JS CP DC, you should be able to beat TD3 reliably with any aspect. So that's something I would work towards.
And no EM4, I guess, since people say that fight takes a long time. No experience with that myself yet.
maiden geode
the ranged weapons lol
patent umbra
I'm avoiding TD3 so far myself because of Hell Mode pacts, but I'm only on 16 heat on my new file since I'm doing one heat for all weapons before climbing a heat
maiden geode
TD3 seems reasonable though
patent umbra
It is, but is still a challenge.
mossy zinc
TD3 with JS1 CP1 can be tough for some aspects.
patent umbra
Yeah, and I'm still farming titan's blood for aspects. So I haven't touched TD3 yet myself.
Also, bow with DC2 seems....annoying. Unless you're Chiron aspect
maiden geode
yeah I'm on chiron bow so DC2 is trivial there
patent umbra
But I guess it pierces so maybe not?
maiden geode
it's also not a problem for exagryph
mossy zinc
I didn't take DC2 for 43 Heat with Chiron.
patent umbra
I use Hestia rail so it's definitely a problem for me, lol
mossy zinc
lol DC with Hestia.
patent umbra
Yeah, never doing that
maiden geode
more or less if your weapon has first hit bonuses you don't want DC
patent umbra
Exactly
Or if it's just slow. I don't think I'd use DC with Excalibur. I'm sure some people do, but I would avoid it
maiden geode
I'm really uncomfortable playing achilles spear
mossy zinc
DC2 at high heat is never trivial for anything, anyway.
patent umbra
Same. But it seems fun.
maiden geode
excalibur in general just seems slow
well at extreme heat ya gotta take a hit somewhere...
mossy zinc
That's what I'm saying. There's no trivial pacts at 40+. Everything hurts.
trim sigil
DC2 is fairly tame for malphon, isn't it?
Other than that and zeus rails, yeah haha fun /s
mossy zinc
I don't think so? I always run JS3 CP2 DC2 on Malphon, though, but that's more an ego thing lol.
Well, it's kinda fun for me.
proven mason
I was just popping in to ask what do y'all run for 32? I'm shooting for the last statue
bronze viper
Rama with Hangover or Lightning doesn't care about DC2. I personally took DC2 for Chiron at 43 and 45 but definitely felt it. Eris and Lucy don't care.
trim sigil
I just used Nemesis for the first 32. There is a lot of stuff that can shoot there as long as you resonate with weapon's moves
trim nebula
Zeus cast
maiden geode
oh right, that's also what haelian recommended
some folks here had me try blade rifts, those were clunky as hell
so how does zeus cast rack up the damage? that base damage number doesn't look appealing
trim sigil
Given achilles makes the base 150, it's pretty straightforward from that point
swift stratus
What weapon and pact settings for a first 32 heat run?
Recommended boons is appreciated as well
patent umbra
Yeah, any weapon can manage 32 heat. If you're just looking for a "I want to unlock the last thing so give me easy mode because I'll never do this again" then shield is my go-to. Personally, I use Chaos Shield with Aprho attack, Dio special, and Low Tolerance. Fists with Ares Attack, Athena Special and Dash and Merciful End is also a good easy build, but requires a bit more boons until the duo is unlockable and viable. But as Toffel said, any weapon can work. So feel free to just play your favorite
As for pacts, it depends on what you pick as your build and what you like. Just try to avoid things that compound on each other. (Ex: Tight Deadline 3 but also a high jury summons, calisthenics program, and damage control). More mobs + more hp makes tight deadline even harder. Play around with it, and find out what works for how you like to play. If you're slower and methodical, maybe take CP or DC. But if you'd rather kill enemies quicker and on a time limit, tight deadline is better.
rocky lark
Nyaanyaa do you always run FO2?
swift stratus
@patent umbra Aight thanks for the info!
round moss
question about the trial where you are timed. is there any point where the timer stops? like at a pause or lore menu?
mossy zinc
@rocky lark yes.
sleek juniper
If you set your time limit per stage, the survival rooms stop happening and Thanatos rooms are mostly not count down
wraith imp
for as much whining as i did about the 1.0 chaos shield, it seems i still underestimated its efficacy as a weapon for high heat. i just beat 45 heat on "new" chaos shield. I probably could've taken a few more heat options. for instance, i didn't take any RI or TD. RI2 + TD1 could've gotten me to 50 heat.
I had a nice aphro-ares duo build going. sudden rush + charged shot was awesome.
i actually didn't have athena on dash. i had poseidon with razor shoals.
not bad, not bad at all...
mossy zinc
Don't underestimate the impact of RI, though.
wraith imp
i don't but you're right. dark foresight alone can make a huge difference in a run.
mossy zinc
I think Dark Foresight makes high heat a lot easier than it was pre-1.0.
wraith imp
probably. having access to fated persuasion + dark foresight is a life saver.
bronze viper
The issue is compounding. RI2 costs a lot more comparatively than it did before because of how good Dark Foresight is. You get less boons, less Obol rooms, and start with less Obols
wraith imp
relative to the rest of the hades community, it seems i undervalue obols and the mid-shop. i didn't know/realize how players were using that strategically until i joined the discord channel. and those habits/sentiments have carried over to even 1.0.
bronze viper
Congrats on the 45 though, btw. No one has tried to push heat on the new Chaos yet, so it'd be cool to see what works now.
wraith imp
thanks. i wish i could've recorded this run but i intend to do many more after getting a new pc with recording/streaming setup. i will say...that aphro+ares are surprisingly effective in terms of damage numbers.
also, i tend to take persephone keepsake in asphodel and keep it on. (i know acorn is the safer choice for elysium + styx but shield's ability to block negates a lot of damage from bosses.) and since i didn't have any td, i did all styx rooms for max impact out of persephone's keepsake. with this build, i think a 4 sack is possible/manageable on td2 against em4 hades.
bronze viper
You mean Aphro+Ares?
wraith imp
ah, yes. i should correct that. for some reason, i mix up athena-aphrodite and dio-poseidon in my head.
daring hedge
https://i.imgur.com/77L2kKP.jpeg unseeded fiddy
flaring as tartarus hammer and exploding launcher in elysium, when i had yet to even obtain a special boon
bronze viper
Yeah, no kidding, insanely impressive, as usual @daring hedge
daring hedge
AP1 denied me serrated point on both hammers lmao
trim sigil
Just your regular AP business
(yknow, that makes me wonder if Supergiant secretly gather the info about most picked boons/hammers and target them more often with AP)
daring hedge
i would almost kinda believe it, considering i also recently had a run where it denied exclusive access twice in a row after a reroll 
bronze viper
Lol, it's definitely confirmation bias. You forget all the times Sunken Treasure is blocked but you feel the burn when Epic Poseidon's Aid is gone.
wraith imp
https://i.imgur.com/77L2kKP.jpeg unseeded fiddy
@daring hedge
super impressive. wow.
btw, why flaring spin? what was the other option?
bronze viper
I've taken Flaring Spin several times when the other options were giant poopoo
trim sigil
I mean, on hades spear flaring isn't ba---- wait what
daring hedge
i just took flaring for dealing with DC hearts
wraith imp
woah, wut?
bronze viper
That's not a bad idea
mossy zinc
@daring hedge why not 51?
trim sigil
Definitely not the worst idea out there but that's still big thonk
daring hedge
@mossy zinc because 50 is a pretty number 
flaring also kinda activates whenever you hold attack for too long, even before a spin really starts charging almost at all
wraith imp
btw, is there some way to check what percentage of the community has completed 50 heat? is there even an achievement for 50 heat?
daring hedge
i would notice the pulse go off occasionally while i was attacking and doing dash-strikes, other things
daring hedge
the highest heat-related achievement is for 16 i believe lol
wraith imp
@mossy zinc is that based on discord data or steam/epic data?
bronze viper
Self-reporting with evidence on this discord
mossy zinc
Based on verified runs on the leaderboard*.
*not officially a leaderboard
wraith imp
got it. i wonder if there is an achievement for 50+ heat.
mossy zinc
There isn't.
daring hedge
like i said just a sec ago, highest acknowledged by steam achievements is only 16
32 ingame
mossy zinc
@daring hedge it was 3 minutes ago.
@daring hedge congratulations on your less-than-52 Heat victory! 
daring hedge
well HEY heat distribution is different now and high heat EM4 with melee is a nightmare so
bronze viper
He also has TD3 on with RI2, so no Dark Foresight, and harder than Blood Price TD2
daring hedge
like right before that 50 i lost a 45 with hades spear during EM4 third phase
wraith imp
highest heat possible is 64 in hell mode (N64!!!!!!!!!!)
mossy zinc
Excuses.
daring hedge
even though my build was nearly ideal
wraith imp
?
mossy zinc
Normal mode max is 63.
daring hedge
wait guys i goofed while i was watching the untrimmed footage
quick and flaring was the run directly before that
and it lost quickly, but right after was flaring versus vicious skewer
bronze viper
Oof, flaring easy
daring hedge
exactly
wraith imp
ok, that makes sense
daring hedge
remembering that i missed/skipped a chaos fish in that run
somber rose
I need a good build for gilgamesh that doesn't rely on a getting a lucky merciful end 😦
daring hedge
you can sorta run ruthless reflex with a good dash boon like poseidon's
since ruthless affects everything
trim sigil
Sounds like just insane enough to work
Just gotta add pom blossom and do dash only 40 heat run
maiden geode
patent umbra
Nyaa being high chaotic neutral energy here.
fossil reef
Might save your life, might steal your car.
maiden geode
oof I just tried my first 32 heat run and got burned pretty hard
mossy zinc
👸🏽
somber rose
Only 3 aspects left to clear 32 heat with. With some of them it felt like you had to get the perfect build for a successful run...
bronze viper
Eh, you find that there are pretty general builds that kind of just always work for all aspects. Which ones do you have left?
bronze viper
(If all else fails, go Heartbreak Strike/Flourish + Zeus's anything and cheese the run to hell with Smoldering Air)
somber rose
like guan yu, without the fast spin hammer I couldn't survive
bronze viper
Yeah, at 32+ I despise the spin build. It's so tedious with FO2
Even with Quick Spin
mossy zinc
See with Guan Yu, that's where you do Heartbreak Flourish + Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air.
somber rose
everytime I really need a specific duo I never get it... I stopped trying to build for it
bronze viper
I would astonished if Smoldering Air didn't get the Merciful End pre-req treatment
But they're not doing heavy balance anymore so I guess it slipped through the cracks
mossy zinc
We'll see about that. Amir said there will be some targeted balance changes.
somber rose
also lucifer... the special doesn't hit anything and I was lucky I got 2 hammers that complemented my hit and run poison laser
mossy zinc
Even if you don't get Smoldering Air, you'll have Heartbreak Flourish + Zeus' Aid. That's a strong combo.
Just add Divine Dash, and you have everything you could possibly need.
bronze viper
@somber rose God's Legacy help some, but remember that you can do stuff like Refreshing Nectar (I think it's called? The third one) at Eurydice, as she often has a boon room after hers, to make it exceptionally more likely for a duo to spawn, same trick with Yarn of Ariadne if you see a miniboss room or a mid-shop, as they are often followed by mini-boss rooms
mossy zinc
Also god keepsakes increase your odds, and miniboss chambers have a higher chance.
somber rose
the problem was that when you build gilgamesh for merciful end, before you get the duo the build sucks hard
bronze viper
Eh, Curse of Agony isn't that bad by itself.
mossy zinc
Curse of Agony and Heartbreak Strike were the only two for me that worked for TD3 JS3 CP2 DC2 in Tartarus. That's hardly bad.
bronze viper
We're just giving you kind of safe stuff to aim for. You can aim for the stars with the builds, but the base is still good enough to win.
The rest is execution and pacts
somber rose
it's also annoying that I can't do a special out of dash, without giving the enemy damage bonus
mossy zinc
Yeah, I don't use the Special at all on Fists 4.
bronze viper
Or being sent to the Shadow Realm to wait out the animation timer
crystal iron
Chaos' Favor blessing helps a lot with legendaries and duos too.
somber rose
Eh, you find that there are pretty general builds that kind of just always work for all aspects. Which ones do you have left?
@bronze viper zag sword,gilgamesh,zag rail
mossy zinc
Favor boons are underrated, yeah.
bronze viper
You can very easily do Zeus + Zeus for Zag Rail
Or you can do crit Spread Shot if you see the hammer
somber rose
i haven't tried it yet. i doubt it would be hard. just like eris but worse 😛
crystal iron
Chaos' Favor is so good that instead of "rare or better" it should say "rare or BETTER"
bronze viper
A lot worse, but it's perfectly fine at 32 :3
mossy zinc
Lightning Strike combos very well with anything from Lady Aphrodite for Smoldering Air and anything from Lady Demeter for Cold Fusion.
somber rose
it's kinda bummer that some of the zag aspects are like other aspects only worse
somber rose
not only they are bad, their unique powerup is also boring
mossy zinc
You can pew pew pew more.
I mean, okay, Eris does PEW PEW PEW meanwhile.
But you'll do pew pew pew pew pew.
More pews.
somber rose
still it's gilgamesh i had the most trouble with so far
bronze viper
Eris can't comfortably build Spread Fire. I mean it can obviously but you get like 2 shots, the range is less than your explosion radius so you have to be crazy precise.
So Zag Rail has that 😛
Lucifer Rail can't say the same thing lol. It's just like... 75% worse numerically than Eris, and also somehow way worse defensively
somber rose
I tried the poseidon dash build and died on EM3 because of TD2.
what's a good build that uses zag sword extra speed?
bronze viper
Boring answer: Nemesis stuff, but wayyyyy worse
You can do Merciful End, I believe @trim sigil did 40 Zag last patch with that.
He hated it, but there you go.
trim sigil
tbf I mostly did it because of dash distance, not mvmt speed
and attack speed is of no use for dash build
bronze viper
You can try making a Zeus + Flurry build work, with Swift Strike and Piercing Wave if you're lucky?
pewpewpew
maiden geode
they should probably give zag sword something else
bronze viper
They've tried... a lot of times lol
They will probably continue to try
It sounds insane but I like the attack speed buff they gave it, I just wish it was 50%
Or some number that matters more than 15%. The problem with that number is that new players will (reasonably) assume that means the aspect should do 15% more damage, multiplicatively. But it is literally 0%, since it's always a mistake to use it still lol
crystal iron
ikr, watched Haelian's sword guide, the sword attack combos are dead to me now, dash strikes are the real mvp, so much safer.
trim sigil
Especially given how perfectly special fits into dash cooldown
dash dash special, dash dash special
(and guess which aspect likes special so much)
unkempt lodge
Is there a good twitch streamer or youtuber that does high heat in bulk? Now that I've gotten my one clear on my own and generally did all my goals in game, I'd like to see how people 'break' some of the weapons.
mossy zinc
You could get World Splitter with +15% Attack speed. Sounds entertaining.
Flurry Slash + Cursed Slash.
@unkempt lodge there's a pinned spreadsheet of high heat runs with video links for every run.
unkempt lodge
Ah, I appreciate it. I didn't catch that!
mossy zinc
Depends on aspect, build you're going for, skill level, personal preference.
wanton plover
routine inspection, forced overtime, and extreme measures 3 and 4 are ones i would avoid if you can help it
lost otter
Is there a good twitch streamer or youtuber that does high heat in bulk? Now that I've gotten my one clear on my own and generally did all my goals in game, I'd like to see how people 'break' some of the weapons.
@unkempt lodge Find Wriste13 ,Vorime , babloization .they realy good guys with Worlds records. Learn how they move. and what they do with enemy ,rooms ,combos. Also Wriste13 make streams when he teaches some one and explain alote of tips.
wanton plover
approval process 1 should be alright, 2 is misery
prisma pebble
ok thanks
the only ones i flat out avoid are jury summons, calistenics program and uh heightned sec
lost otter
if you have big aoe(poseidon cast,dio cast build) or cleave like artur - more enemy not so big problem.
prisma pebble
i dont take it solely because of styx and elysium (to an extent)
60% hard labour + those green lazer shooting things is just pure hell
lost otter
mb your problem its build. becaus in styx almost all time figth time near 5-10 second in small rooms. and 20-30 in bigs rooms with out bosses.
autumn sable
@daring hedge you should submit your 50 Rama for the 50 speedrun category. 18m is less than 1 min behind #1 without being another rail run
daring hedge
Oh good idea, for sure
wraith imp
@daring hedge
Do you have a link to your 50 heat run?
I'm watching as many vids on rama as I can.
hollow lynx
autumn sable
@wraith imp It’s in #self-promotion or in the pinned document
wraith imp
Oh. Got it. Thanks.
honest kernel
bloodprice gives all rama runs the best thumbnails 
daring hedge
So true lol
mossy zinc
I don't know who did those emoji reactions, but they're on point.
autumn sable
Is there a good twitch streamer or youtuber that does high heat in bulk? Now that I’ve gotten my one clear on my own and generally did all my goals in game, I’d like to see how people ‘break’ some of the weapons.
@unkempt lodge babloization probably does the most “bulk” high heat runs at this point followed by haelian on Twitch. But neither do exclusive high heat runs. Shoutout to Tailesque who probably would be considered a dedicated high-heat runner who’s YouTube has stuff, sometimes. Wriste has a lot of really old high heat stuff but he’s moved on to speed running at this point so you’re unlikely to find much new high heat stuff from him. Old stuff is still good and he’s the only one with an Arthur run that you can study
mossy zinc
Wow, no mention of the #1 female Hades player. How very rude.
Smh.
Or what about the #2 female Hades player @honest kernel.
wraith imp
oh my...i had no idea artemis dash strike got nerfed (kinda hard)
AAAAAMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
mossy zinc
Hm?
hollow lynx
oh yeah lol
wraith imp
epic now gives 70%.
i remember it getting 100%.
hollow lynx
it's now +10% per rarity
autumn sable
@mossy zinc amber, the originator of the all weapons speedrun category, unfortunately does not do high heat runs
mossy zinc
Who?
somber rose
lol i finally beat 32h with gilgamesh... and it was with a poseidon dash build
somber rose
that's not what the build does
ruthless dash (3 with gilgamesh)+epic poseidon dash+knockback poseidon boons, and you just spam the dash. you don't press the attack and special buttons
honest kernel
okay that makes sense lol
somber rose
it sounds like a meme build but it works 😛
honest kernel
pos dash is really good so I'm not surprised 👍
mossy zinc
Tidal Dash is real, yeah.
somber rose
idk usually every time I take a dash other than athena I really feel it during the run
especially vs those mages in biome 2 who fill the screen with balls in FO2
mossy zinc
I kinda just tank damage and kill them sometimes when I don't have deflect lol.
They don't have a lot of HP or armor.
And I'll just revive either way, so it doesn't matter if I take some damage.
somber rose
you mean with stubborn
mossy zinc
Right. SD is kind of assumed for high heat.
somber rose
idk what's the standard for 32 but I still used the whole stubborn PoP package
trim sigil
Passion and drunken dashes are usually too small for me to feel it
Actual contenders for powerful non-athena dashes are like, ares and poseidon
Zeus maybe if you got synergies going
mossy zinc
SD + LC4 is some nice free 4 Heat for 32.
wraith imp
ruthless dash (3 with gilgamesh)+epic poseidon dash+knockback poseidon boons, and you just spam the dash. you don't press the attack and special buttons
@somber rose
oh my...
this confirms something i've been wondering about but hadn't attempted yet...
poseidon's legendary is kind of a running joke amongst some players. many (including me) prefer breaking wave and typhoon fury to his legendary second wave. but gilgamesh's extra dashes might be the one to maximize it with razor shoals and sea storm. that said, there are other aspects for better using sea storm but gilgamesh might lowkey be a great aspect specifically for secondwave (though lucifer or chiron might be better).
also, gilgamesh allows for a theorectical maximum of 8 dashes.
2 from greater reflex, 2 from gilgamesh, 4 from hermes dash boon (upgraded from epic to heroic by eurydice).
i want to do that run at some point just for the hell of it.
somber rose
when you have so many dashes there's no reason to not pick ruthless over greater reflex
wraith imp
agree. diminshing returns. but i just want to try out 8.
it's kinda like the people that try to see how high they can lvl up a single ability using sweet nectar despite diminishing returns.
somber rose
👍
trim sigil
Pos legendary actually turned out to be quite good with other wall slamming boons
The problem is that you can't really slam bosses in walls
(except theseus)
wraith imp
Pos legendary actually turned out to be quite good with other wall slamming boons
@trim sigil
i haven't been able to tell a difference. i can never tell how much second wave is adding on top of breaking wave and typhoon's fury.
besides, breaking wave and typhoon's fury are "ol' reliable" ya know?
trim sigil
Indeed. I was able to see the difference because a difference between 150 and 900 is pretty glaring
wraith imp
The problem is that you can't really slam bosses in walls
@trim sigil
but i've noticed (from watching streams of other players) that you can kinda pin bosses near a pillar.
trim sigil
wraith imp
i can't remember the run (i think it was wriste) but he demonstrated it kinda well. i think it might have been with beowulf's dash attack to lead into the dragon rush cast.
somber rose
so what's a good build for zag sword? It feels like high risk low reward
wraith imp
<i got nothing, probably my least used aspect>
trim sigil
Nothing that other swords aspects can't do, I'd imagine
crystal iron
so what's a good build for zag sword? It feels like high risk low reward
try to take advantage of the +15% movement speed, start with the Lambent Plume and go all in with Rush Delivery
trim sigil
Like, the only edge case you could try is Cursed + Flurry hammers, with hermes attack speed boon
Heal stabs
daring hedge
yeah, that's probably the most you'll be able to squeeze out of zag sword in regard to its strengths, which aren't... very strong
you can pretty much just do worse nemesis builds on it too
rocky lark
My first win was actually also the first time I beat Thesius with I think arty attack on base sword and flurry slash with hermes attack speed
fathom scarab
I want to go for 32 for skelly with ka sword.. I can win 24 heat 2/3 runs now.
Any advice for heat options? FO messes with ka too much
bronze viper
Arthur I assume you mean?
bronze viper
0 HL, 0 FO, 0 DC, the rest is mostly up to you. EM4 is probably pretty straightforward with those off too, so that's a ton of heat for free
somber rose
When I don't know what to do I just put aphro and demeter on the attack and special + priv status + athena dash
fathom scarab
When do you unlock EM4?
bronze viper
Privileged Status is exceptionally difficult to use on Arthur thogh
Just keep playing? I'm not sure exactly when
fathom scarab
And how much heat is it
bronze viper
10 Heat
bronze viper
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 lol
wraith imp
but entire em is 10
bronze viper
HL is pretty atrocious on Arthur because you want to take hits. I don't bother with it until 40. You really want to be able to tank.
fathom scarab
Let me find the layout for my last run hold on
True true
But pushing enemies out of health thresholds with CP hurts too
There's my heat & mirror options from my last run
bronze viper
JS maybe, but Arthur hits like a truck, CP should not matter too much. I doubt you'd even have to take it
LC4, CF2, EM4, BP2, MM, UC, HS, AP1, TD2? If you're comfortable with TD3 you can cut AP1 and something else.
fathom scarab
I could probably do td3 but it's pretty risky
ka blasts through asphodel so it would prob be fine
I usually save a lot of time there
bronze viper
I'd probably aim for Deadly Strike + Divine Dash, if you get lucky, Greater Consecration, otherwise the hammers are fairly irrelevant for Arthur. You can take all of CF2, UC, and AP1 because besides your two core boons, you really just don't need much else.
lost otter
im pref athena attack and Ruthless Reflex. on artur for High heat. with upgrade to zone. when you attack you invisible.trow any procjectiles back.after dash even more damage +50% to one shot enemy and 50% dodje chance. and you stay on special zone. in total :attacking ivisible. when you not attacking you have 50% dodje. even enemy hit you in Melee you have 40% damage reduction.and enemy can hit you only in melee. becaus deflection and zone slow down projectiles.
bronze viper
Though if you cut AP1 you can more easily go Heartbreak Strike + Zeus' Aid + Smoldering Air, which should pretty much cinch up that run in a jiffy.
fathom scarab
Yeah the only hammers I ever really benefit from are the arthur one the backstab one and the armor breaker one
lost otter
and its only from mirror and one boon.if you find armor breakin hammer or create duo with artemis. you almos 100% time have 20% crit with athena attack.Huge athena scaling numbers.
bronze viper
@lost otter You realllllyy do not want to cut dashes on any aspect. But MOST especially Arthur since dash-cancelling your attack string to be able to continue your combo after dashes is so important.
daring hedge
heartbreak for smoldering air fasttrack babey
lost otter
I REALY do it on artur. becaus i can find hermes and take +1 dash.It's enough to face tank Hades EM 4 with +40% damage and 20% speed near 3 min in row.
bronze viper
I gave it to you 😛 If you want a straight run with no fluff, Artemis, but Aphro gives you outs for Smoldering Air, and comparable DPS wise. Artemis will just reward you harder for say, Chaos boons, or Battle Rage or something.
fathom scarab
Ok thanks
bronze viper
Or Heart Rend, for maximum memes
lost otter
probably i need do 40 heat video with this to ppl belive in this.
bronze viper
I'm not saying that Ruthless can't work, I just think you're needlessly hamstringing yourself on runs where Hermes doesn't cooperate.
And also, yeah, if you want to make 40 Excalibur content, that's super welcome. It's one of the most asked about aspects but we have very little footage of it at 40+
daring hedge
for sure, i'd love to see more high heat arthur content
lost otter
im doing only 32 heat runs with artur. but now its my goal to do 40 after this)
bronze viper
It gets... rough for Arthur when you start getting to 40.
Some pacts are immensely unkind
lost otter
btw i love DC2 on artur)
bronze viper
That's an opinion. I think it's literally the worst pact on Arthur but it'd be cool to see you make it work!
wanton plover
the absolute madman
bronze viper
Lol, the list of things that would be viable if TD wasn't a thing.
tidal flame
I guess you can tech something like a damaging dash like Drunken Dash or even Divine Strike to pop the shields
I mean you can use any shield and turtle in a corner till the end of time on max heat if TD isn't a thing.
daring hedge
yeah you kind of need a damaging dash for DC2 arthur or else every single encounter wave feels like slowly ripping off a bandage
and even then it's rough, especially with TD3
bronze viper
Drunken so awkward though because it spawns from your originating point, not the point of arrival.
So you have to dash to them, then past them, then wait, then dash strike back
Barf
lost otter
im using zeus dash and dio dash on artur to negate DC 2 to zero.
ember coral
is it just me or is armor perks and mini boss buff both harder then just added forms to act2 and 3 boss
lost otter
Both aoe.Dio better becaus when you find Peer Pressure. you have realy good aoe damage only from dash.
rocky lark
someone mind giving an opinion on a question about EM4 I posted in #h1-builds-and-combat ?
bronze viper
is it just me or is armor perks and mini boss buff both harder then just added forms to act2 and 3 boss
@ember coral BP2 is pretty challenging, and really RNG, yeah. Depending on aspect it's definitely harder just stragiht up then EM1/2/3
scarlet dune
Just cleared Heat 40 and don't think I want to go any higher. Anyone else feel like higher heat stops being fun?
bronze viper
Heat stops being fun for me when I have to add the second AP, TD3, or EM4
But that is typically at the 48 range where one of those becomes necessary
trim sigil
Somewhere around that for me. Although I have yet to try EM4 for myself
mossy zinc
It's more for me that when heat is too low it stops being fun lol.
scarlet dune
Low heat is also less fun for sure. There is a happy medium somewhere and it's obviously dependent on the person. I could probably hit 44 before I stop having any fun but who knows. AP turns it into too much RNG for me
bronze viper
I would also add RI3+ to that list but that's a line I just haven't bothered to cross yet. It just wouldn't be fun for me baseline, even at just 6 heat.
mossy zinc
Really? You should do some RI4 at 20 or something, it's surprisingly fun.
bronze viper
I box RI4 into its own category. I'm not trying to push heat, I'd be trying to push RI4 heat.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
trim nebula
EM4 hades kicked my ass
bronze viper
Yyeepp
mossy zinc
So far, only me and Wriste13 and bablo have done any RI4 runs.
bronze viper
Yeah, it's a nifty run category, I may look into it, but 1.0 gave me a lot of projects I'd rather work on more.
autumn sable
Technically Vorime has done a lot of RI4 runs too since he’s been doing fresh file first runs which also have no mirror effectively
Is that technically? Maybe not. Effectively
bronze viper
It's more than technically lol, it's just strictly harder
autumn sable
I dunno, English is hard
mossy zinc
I mean, it's not harder than RI4 + a lot of other pacts.
bronze viper
I tried fresh file for a couple of hours. I really have to face both my hatred of Zag aspect combined with my hatred of 1 dash.
autumn sable
I dunno about strictly but definitely harder in that you’re stuck with base sword
bronze viper
Which incidentally also nerfs Zag sword in half lol
autumn sable
But easier in that you don’t have other pact options
There’s probably some middle ground between forced base sword vs fully upgraded other weapons + pacts that is not easy to quantify
mossy zinc
RI4 is as difficult as you make it with other pacts and what aspect you choose etc.
So you can't really compare the two at all.
bronze viper
Yeah there's obv a tipping point somewhere, some amount of heat that makes it about equal.
autumn sable
It’s still comparable since RI4 alone is just no mirror
Obviously adding pacts and weapon upgrades changes things
The base RI4 is present in both
daring hedge
fresh file also doesn't spawn any hammers, correct? so there's that too
bronze viper
Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean it's strictly in that fresh file will always be harder than RI4, but that fresh file is RI4 but also offers challenges that don't exist for RI4 runs.
autumn sable
Oh yeah, that’s true, no hammers
bronze viper
No calls, keepsakes, buffed rooms, troves, fish(!!!!)
autumn sable
Also smaller god offering pool
trim sigil
No hermes, no 2 dashes, no hammers, no aphro or artemis
autumn sable
There’s definitely Artemis
trim sigil
No demeter too so it's all worth tho
mossy zinc
I dunno. I mean do RI4 FO2 JS3 CP2 DC2 EM4 HL5 or whatever, I don't really think the challenges in fresh file can compare at all lol.
trim sigil
the gods you can find are locked to Artemis, Athena, Dionysus, Ares
Ye I shall stand corrected on arty
daring hedge
why willingly turn on EM4 with RI4
trim sigil
I dunno. I mean do RI4 FO2 JS3 CP2 DC2 EM4 HL5 or whatever, I don't really think the challenges in fresh file can compare at all lol.
they definitely could when your weapon of choice is just 10x more effective than stock sword
bronze viper
Yeah it's hard to draw a 1:1 comparison, but it's a lot that you can pick a blooded non-Zag sword, and multiple gods.
why willingly turn on EM4 with RI4
@daring hedge There isn't enough Stubborn Roots in the world for that fight lol.
mossy zinc
For the challenge, obviously. That you wouldn't find in a fresh file run.
mossy zinc
That's still just 0 Heat.
bronze viper
8*
mossy zinc
Nah, it's 0 Heat.
mossy zinc
Yeah. That's my secret strategy for 63 when school is on break next week.
daring hedge
that would actually be hilarious, like. watching a video of 60+ and then seeing the god mode icon on the victory screen at the end
mossy zinc
But they never get hit.
bronze viper
Philosophical question of the ages
daring hedge
mossy zinc
No-hit 63 Heat, but it doesn't count for the leaderboard because you had god mode on.
trim sigil
That'd be such a powerful move
mossy zinc
@bronze viper how can it be 8 Heat? They don't even have the pact yet on a fresh file.
Now, fresh file Hell mode, though.
That I can respect.
That's 5 Heat.
bronze viper
autumn sable
That’s also been done by Vorime
daring hedge
lol
mossy zinc
Yeah, that I can respect. That's a high heat run.
daring hedge
high heat in the eyes of an unupgraded zag sword 
mossy zinc
Any heat with Zag sword is high heat.
That was true pre-1.0 at least.
I haven't played with 1.0 Zag sword yet, actually.
autumn sable
Still pretty true
daring hedge
yeah, the attack speed boost really doesn't do much
especially considering optimal sword weaving
autumn sable
Optimal Zag sword is actually just flurry slash
daring hedge
true lol
mossy zinc
You're playing A Link to the Past, but your sword heals. What's not to like?
Well, lifesteals. But whatever lol.
I guess Flurry Slash needs the spin on hold, though.
autumn sable
Lifesteal seems like an okay trade off for sword beams
mossy zinc
If Flurry Slash had a spin attack on hold, I'd just play Flurry Slash + Piercing Wave all day.
And then everytime you pick up a boon, you gotta play "HEY! LISTEN!"
final torrent
Nemesis + artemis on attack + cursed slash + pressure points is pretty good too
30% crit chance + 15% + (40% on the thurst and 200% damage) + 10% pressure point is nasty
The duo boom with dio also increases the crit chance by 1.5% for every stack of hangover
daring hedge
oh yeah we're very aware of nemesis' potential and overwhelming advantage over zag sword
just, if you really want to lean right into zag sword's quirks, it'd be flurry slash related probably is what we're saying
mossy zinc
World Splitter, you mean.
daring hedge
lol
mossy zinc
Zag sword + Swift Strike + World Splitter.
somber rose
finally finished 32h with all 24 aspects. time to take a break from the game...
somber rose
does the game "save" your god preferences?
It looks like if you keep taking the same gods you'll get them more frequently in future runs
mossy zinc
Nope.
You're probably just avoiding the ones you don't care for, pick up the ones you want, and then of course, they'll show up for the rest of the run.
somber rose
not talking about seeing the same god again after you've picked it up once
but i guess you are right and my memory is deceiving me
daring hedge
yeah, even still, god appearances aren't influenced by pick rate or anything
fathom scarab
@bronze viper aaaaaaa thanks, first try https://imgur.com/a/SEZIjts
so I struggle with hades the most right?
ka makes em3 pretty straightforward
so what I did was
get athena's aid
and when hades lasers
just brute force him
blew through his second phase thanks to that
bronze viper
Yep! Saving Greater Athena's Aid for p2p2 is a great tactic
Congrats :3
Well done too, that's a lot of HL, and JS1 and CP1 definitely don't make TD3 any easier.
fathom scarab
Yeah I went barely over but still had a dd
fallow stream
Really not liking how they altered requirements for both Deadly reversal and Merciful end.
Very unnatural progression
Especially since merciful end usually refuses to show up in the first place
It's the most stubborn of all the duo's
lost otter
Really not liking how they altered requirements for both Deadly reversal and Merciful end.
Very unnatural progression
@fallow stream To ppl stop abusing dash for this.and i like this changes.
static plover
lost otter
For my game play nothing changed) i dont know about this changes util read this 2 min ago)But i athena lover.And love DR.
onyx forge
I have decided that I hate FO2. Asterius is so much worse.
lost otter
FO2 its attraction of pain.😭
bronze viper
It's fine, I had the arrogance for the last hour to try to finish unseeded 50 (because apparently that's what all the cool kids are doing nowadays) before I've managed to finish 50 seeded.
I'm in the lonely 49 gang 😦
mossy zinc
49 is still top 6 lol.
trim sigil
Wasting time is for cool kids indeed
bronze viper
The leaderboard is very funny right now, the highest heat records are all unseeded
Across both categories
bronze viper
I'm pretty sure it's just because of natural competitiveness. The top players saw that people were doing something and wanted to prove they could do it too (I just proved to myself that I can't yet lol).
On a completely unrelated note I need to relearn how to dodge Asterius charges >_>
I got spoiled in my whatever number of runs in 1.0, with 0 AP and 0 RI it's virtually guaranteed to get a Call, and it's so easy to invuln the charge
subtle ocean
Is doing 32 with EM4 an accomplishment at least 
tidal flame
If you frequent here long enough, you realize that the number of 40+ heat completion people is like single digit here, and likely double digit globally. SGG probably knows, but God knows if they will ever release the number.
Also, if One for the Ages achievement is like 0.3% completion, 32 heat run is approximately that or even lower, I would argue.
Revel in your accomplishment, because it's yours.
fathom scarab
I checked actually
For the 3rd|| skelly ||statue achievement
Which is 32
3% of the playerbase has it supposedly
On steam
Hades all time peak on steam is 37k I think?
Oh wait nvm
That achievement is only for the 2nd lol
So yeah it's got to be pretty low
I beat 32 today, does that mean I can join the cool kids club now?
bronze viper
OMFG FINALLY. I'm part of the 50 club
fathom scarab
shh don't ruin my moment
bronze viper
I mean, literally everything went nearly as right as it possibly could have, and I got carried pretty hard, but
woo
fathom scarab
No?
bronze viper
(I am not a speedrunner, that much is for sure)
Not my best time overall, but my best bow time, see, the times match
fathom scarab
It says your best time is 14
bronze viper
Look at the Bow best time in the table below
hollow lynx
best time is for all weapons
bronze viper
(also to answer your previous question Eris, Rama, and Hades aspects)
bronze viper
In this economy?
fathom scarab
Kinda surprising tbh
bronze viper
We're waiting for @mossy zinc to prove its worth.
The nerf was... sizable
It would be vaguely equivalent to like 3ish additional ranks of CP worth
fathom scarab
I'm going to keep climbing
bronze viper
Do it!
fathom scarab
But I don't think I'll ever be good enough to beat 50 lol
I probably have to switch sword aspects too
Which do you think is the best
bronze viper
At what heat?
bronze viper
Nemesis for sure
fathom scarab
Yeah
bronze viper
Poseidon isn't bad, but it's not really a... sword
fathom scarab
Idk if I can run ka to 40
bronze viper
Arthur gets rough at 40, for sure
fathom scarab
I'd have to turn on fo or ri
Much less 50
If I'm setting my sights high might as well switch to nem now
bronze viper
Though Nemesis took me more attempts (by far) than any other weapon to get to 40 (weapon, not aspect, I certainly have not hit every aspect at 40 lol)
bronze viper
I mean, if you're comfortable with it you can keep pushing its meta forward
fathom scarab
Seems like a lot of other ppl find sword hard but it's the weapon that comes easiest to me
bronze viper
It's definitely stagnated, no one takes it seriously at very high heat
trim nebula
Though Nemesis took me more attempts (by far) than any other weapon to get to 40 (weapon, not aspect, I certainly have not hit every aspect at 40 lol)
@bronze viper when u do high heat do u play with EM4
bronze viper
Hell no
barf
I have not done EM4 above 32 yet.
And I more or less refuse to above 45
daring hedge
Ayy @bronze viper congrats on 50 with rama
bronze viper
Also my first recorded high heat without Divine Dash lmao. I will one day ascend to your levels of non Athena reliance. (cough 4 second Athena's aid not bad not bad though)
In an ideal world I would have seeded for Twin Shot, but I got lazy when I saw AP2 Relentless so I went with my Blood Price build lol.
vagrant carbon
i'm sort of curious to like learn the em4 fight, but i'm seeing a lot of people say they don't even turn on em4 at high-ass heat
is there a particular aspect or build that does well against em4? the final phase seems hard
bronze viper
It'll change as we have time to practice it. It just scales so badly with other pacts.
Chaos without Tight Deadline would be my go to at very high heat.
Phase 1 is the issue.
Phase 2/3 is just execution, that's easy enough to practice.
Phase 1 you can end up with 2 or 3 mini bosses with wildly inflated armor totals on the screen at the same time.
vagrant carbon
so the idea is you grind out the extra mobs without TD leaning on you rather than try to burst Hades down in phase 1
bronze viper
Right, you can play as safe as you'd like. That gets iffy though if you're given multiple Sneaks to deal with. They don't much care about shields.
At this point I'm not sure what aspect does well against 2x Sneaks.
vagrant carbon
gotcha, thanks for the help. just jumped from 8 to 32 heat today and died on em4 phase 3 😩
think i'll try another 32 run without em4
bronze viper
That's a jump haha
vagrant carbon
i had been on a 33-win streak.. game was scaling too slow
bronze viper
Getting to phase 3 EM4 at 32 heat is great though, you've got all the hard parts over with.
I mean, phase 3 is not easy lol, but it's predictable.
mossy zinc
@bronze viper congratulations!
From top 6 to top 6. Such an accomplishment.
At this point I'm not sure what aspect does well against 2x Sneaks.
I'd recommend the aspect of Deflect-boons-on-everything.
fathom scarab
Lol my friend said Divine Dash is a crutch
How true and false simultaneously is this statement
trim sigil
It kinda is, if you think really hard
mossy zinc
What's next, good DPS is a crutch? Tell your friend to do boonless 32 Heat or something maybe?
No crutches.
mossy zinc
Leveling aspects is a crutch.
fathom scarab
Does boon rarity make per level scaling fall off later or does it increase base scaling or both
mossy zinc
Mirror is the true crutch. RI4 only.
fathom scarab
Never really bothered to check
mossy zinc
Rarity scaling and pom scaling are additive.
trim sigil
You get the same benefit from poms regardless of rarity
fathom scarab
Wait so if my rare Example Strike is 50% dmg and my epic Example Strike is 70%
trim sigil
Like, heartbreak strike's first pom is always +20%, whether it's on common 50% or epic 95%
fathom scarab
At lv2 they'll be 55 and 75?
trim sigil
Yes
trim sigil
There isn't a simple formula to that, but every next pom would be drastically worse than previous one
Exception being some boons where a benefit from pom is limited to 1
Like a lot of dionysis
mossy zinc
There's a simple formula.
trim sigil
Would be nice to see it then, if it's simple
mossy zinc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P6oZ6i8zmY6s7PM_AkX_g6bjZ601iP_xi9CxzEpujJ4/edit?usp=sharing
Don't really have the time to go into it right now, unfortunately.
maiden geode
no TD high heat seems too cheesy for my blood
trim sigil
Just take TD1, it's a perfect middle
bronze viper
Lol my friend said Divine Dash is a crutch
How true and false simultaneously is this statement
@fathom scarab Yeah, it's both. But my guess it's that none of the other dashes offer even remotely close to the amount of utility or offense (through either Deflect damage, or allowing you to play extremely aggressive without fear) that Divine Dash does, without even considering the obvious defensive benefits. So... yeah, a lot of times, especially at lower heats, you really don't need it, but if you think about it, why would you hamstring yourself by intentionally electing to use anything else?
A common justification is to apply curse for Privileged Status, but congratulations? You now have to go into point blank melee range defenseless, consume dashes to do so, to apply an Urge to Kill debuff to a single target? Whee?
One real exception is for Deadly Strike or Explosive Upper + Deadly Flourish builds, since they work wonderfully with additive damage and Hunter Dash provides that in spades, even after its nerf.
Also, the fact that Hunter Dash got nerfed and Divine Dash was untouched is so good. Why not just buff the rest of the dashes to at least be moderate considerations...
mossy zinc
The only dashes that matter are Divine Dash, Hunter Dash, and Tidal Dash.
Tidal Dash because that's a build in itself.
But even that's already a fringe strategy.
bronze viper
@cedar spire Just watched your Eris 50. Nice job. One question, you seemed pretty miffed at the Ricochet Fire vs. Delta Chamber pick in Tartarus. Do you not like Ricochet because they happen within the .2s window for Lightning to proc twice? I may be mis-observing but it does seem to me that it happens a pretty good amount of the time. I mean.. it could just be that I'm straight wrong, have been prioritizing Ricochet Fire over literally everything else, and Eris is so good it literally just doesn't matter, but yeah.
Also, I think you're underselling Delta Chamber. It's way better than it used to be. I am also doubtful that it actually does anything total DPS wise, but it's definitely not a loss anymore, and it's a huge QoL improvement. Eris 1.0 reminds me of Chaos Blood Price as far as hammers are concerned. Most of them are just nice to haves that make gameplay smoother.
What are you looking for if you're seeding Eris though? I think the biggest actual damage upgrade I've seen was probably Heartbreak Flourish with Cluster Bombs? And it made getting into self-explosion radius free.
mossy zinc
.2s window for Lightning to proc twice
That's Thunder Flourish.
Lightning Strike has nothing to do with that.
bronze viper
Lightning Strike doesn't have an ICD?
mossy zinc
Nope.
bronze viper
So Lightning Strike + Ricochet Fire is literally 2x damage in groups then, right? But he was super super negative about the hammer, still curious why
mossy zinc
Probably? I don't really play Exagryph much, dunno about hammers.
cedar spire
@bronze viper I haven't tried ricochet with Lightning in a while but there is an internal CD on how often chain Lightning procs I believe, thus why I'm not excited about ricochet. I really only want something like rocket bomb, cluster bomb, targeting system, maybe triple bomb. Boss damage isn't amazing if you focus only on zeus attack for the whole run, dps becomes a major issue in the Hades fight for that reason. Delta is definitely very good overall but just not exactly what I want for that run.
lost otter
jesus it was hard...im almost do this on artur.... (many bad words about urns)....face take 2 urns from hades in last phase....
bronze viper
Oh, interesting, 0 TD
Were you able to get a recording? It'd be cool to see what you did
lost otter
max what i can do its 5 min with this quality like this
too old PC.
it's just a patient neat game on artur. with animation canceling for special.
bronze viper
@bronze viper I haven't tried ricochet with Lightning in a while but there is an internal CD on how often chain Lightning procs I believe, thus why I'm not excited about ricochet.
@cedar spire Getting conflicting information here then... I'll test with Lucifer aspect in a bit to see. Because I've had ricochet do a lot of work vs. EM4 Dad controlling Skulls, minibosses and urns. Well, "do a lot of work," again, it could have been doing nothing and Eris is just that good by itself, lol.
lost otter
what advice can you give for such a combination of hell? What could be better than finding chaos for money and taking the bracers of Achilles to fight Dad?
cedar spire
It's definitely not bad but what is with eris nowadays! Rocket bomb is just so good against dad with the extra long range and stuff. You can probably see me struggling to squeeze in regular attacks in the fight, the short range makes it so dangerous
mossy zinc
That's the first time I've heard on any ICD for Chain Lightning.
bronze viper
Hmm, interesting, yeah I guess I'll test some stuff. I just joined the 50 club but it'd be cool to join the 50 unseeded super club
It's literally above the club I'm in
cedar spire
PUT IT ON THE BOARD SON
bronze viper
I'd want to do with Bow, but Bow doesn't like... do everything simultaneously with 0 boons or hammers like Eris does lol
cedar spire
I tried very hard with chiron but never got it done. Was close once or twice
bronze viper
I tried Chiron 50 unseeded several times a week ago, same result. EM4 Dad was wayy too much
I made a practice save one attempt to grind through EM4, and the seed usually spawned double Sneaks in phase 1. In like 20 attempts I couldn't even figure out a way to deal with it with Chiron
lost otter
Probably there no adwise about artur. chaos for money and ahillies bracer for damage mitigation?https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/763786504949989416/unknown.png
bronze viper
what advice can you give for such a combination of hell? What could be better than finding chaos for money and taking the bracers of Achilles to fight Dad?
@lost otter If you're doing Myrmidon Bracers in Styx you probably want to move heat off of HL. It's an unusual build choice, but I could see it working. I don't know about the Chaos for money thing, I don't figure Chaos boons into my runs, they're too unreliable to get.
sonic elbow
Alright, folks, what is the least difficult 32 heat pact setup?
lost otter
i take chaos money to mitigave +80% price. and feel free in boons and builds. to be honest i dont go forward if dont find chaos money in 1 zone.becaus build dont work.I dont have alote boons and health back from wells.... and time just annoing me like human) im stil in 28 min window. but just timer nerves me alote.
sonic elbow
and possible strats for shield, sword or fists
bronze viper
This is the wrong channel for advice that general haha
sonic elbow
is that replying to me or someone else
lost otter
@lost otter If you're doing Myrmidon Bracers in Styx you probably want to move heat off of HL. It's an unusual build choice, but I could see it working. I don't know about the Chaos for money thing, I don't figure Chaos boons into my runs, they're too unreliable to get.
@bronze viper but i try your adwise.realy) to not get so much HL.
sonic elbow
okay, where do I start then?
bronze viper
@sonic elbow #h1-builds-and-combat
sonic elbow
I checked the spreadsheet and I see rail, bow and spear as only 40+ heat weapons, huh
ok
bronze viper
Patch is new, you can see Blood Price runs in the the previous tab
There's plenty of everything there
bronze viper
@lost otter I understand the merit of +gold on Chaos, it's a great boon if you get it in Tartarus, but it's not something I figure into a run ahead of time. Also it's not like... terribly necessary if you have Dark Foresight on. You get plenty of gold and boons from that alone.
mossy zinc
Actually, there's one with every aspect pre-1.0.
what is the least difficult 32 heat pact setup
@sonic elbow depends a lot on your skill level, aspect, build you're planning, experience, and personal preference.
mossy zinc
Getting first-hand experience with whatever aspect you think you're best with is always a good idea.
bronze viper
@lost otter Oh, I was mistaken, you failed that 40 heat attempt that you linked?
lost otter
@mossy zinc run looks .with 400 HP and 2 DD on dad.https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/758485427723698186/763793282064056320/unknown.png
mossy zinc
So many boons. I had 4 boons at 52 Heat lol.
Dark Foresight is kinda busted right now.
bronze viper
Unless you're exceptionally confident with EM4 at 40, it's very disheartening to make all that progress only to die to the last boss. You may want to practice them separately so you can at least get some run completions in.
lost otter
So many boons. I had 4 boons at 52 Heat lol.
@mossy zinc and becaus chaos gold i buy all from shop.
its feels like normal run
mossy zinc
Yeah, Affluence is nice.
lost otter
Unless you're exceptionally confident with EM4 at 40, it's very disheartening to make all that progress only to die to the last boss. You may want to practice them separately so you can at least get some run completions in.
@bronze viper True. that realy good Goal for me. I go practice with EM4 dad on +40% speed. to do result faster.
and wave on sword feels busted vs DC 2)
bronze viper
Right, that's definitely what I'd recommend
Also with Excalibur, Greater Consecration is definitely the dream hammer.
Especially on EM4, where the arena is huge and there is stuff happening everywhere.
lost otter
Especially on EM4, where the arena is huge and there is stuff happening everywhere.
@bronze viper Im absolutely agree.that hammer must have. so huge deal.
So many boons. I had 4 boons at 52 Heat lol.
@mossy zinc and i have so many boons becaus i dont have time limit.i can do chest with gold and darkness. and dont avoid 2 boons rooms.
mossy zinc
You also don't have AP2. That's a big one.
bronze viper
Honestly, the no TD thing isn't a terrible idea for the reasons he said. It's a tradeoff
TD is worth a lot of heat but you skip troves, non-story/midshops and non-Tartarus Erebus room with TD3
And you take awkward Chaos rooms
mossy zinc
TD3 for Excalibur is a bad idea imo.
TD2 or TD1 should be manageable.
TD1 is free. That's 1 Heat you can take off HL or whatever.
lost otter
yup. i can go with td2. but its nerves me so hard.
and i do mistakes just becaus timer....
mossy zinc
Yeah, I can see that. But you'll get used to it with experience.
lost otter
probably yes. experience.need look more vorime.Looking at him help my worst in world hands becoming better.🤣
mossy zinc
Vorime doesn't really do high heat.
lost otter
i know. but he do clean fast runs.
mossy zinc
Big difference, though.
Have you seen horheristo's 40 Heat Excalibur or Wriste13's 46 Heat Excalibur runs? Those would matter to your 40+ attempts with Excalibur.
lost otter
I dont saw wriste artur. i saw him rigth now in stream. can you give me link on 46 heat artur wriste?
mossy zinc
lost otter
Ty vm. mb i find some thing intresting
bronze viper
It is 2 patches ago but the weapon has not changed
lost otter
yup
mossy zinc
@hallow stream's Hades fights are always so clean.
lost otter
@hallow stream's Hades fights are always so clean.
@mossy zinc that big deal. becaus i have clean only Meg figth. and hydra.
bronze viper
I'll practice what I preach @lost otter. I'll make it a point to get a 40 Excal video on the leaderboard today for 1.0. Or I will give up in exasperation and continue playing ranged aspects.
50/50
lost otter
for my bad hands. its take week or 2 weeks to handle EM 4 in my heat choose. probably more.but i dont give up.
bronze viper
Oh pffffff, I'm not doing EM4 on a melee aspect, I'm not that masochistic.
mossy zinc
not that good*
bronze viper
Pick one
mossy zinc
Maybe it will help you make it into top 5.
bronze viper
That's literally impossible lol
mossy zinc
You've been stuck at top 6 forever now. 
lost otter
i have only one video with 32 heat artur EM 4. its was my first.
bronze viper
I need to get to 4th. 5th is dead
lost otter
when i practice build
brave bloom
what’s the max heat
bronze viper
63/64 w/ Hell Mode
brave bloom
i see thanks
bronze viper
Lol, I may give up at the pact selection screen. 40 is so much, and so many of these pacts are trash :\
bronze viper
I'm considering it, but AP2 unseeded runs are such a chore
mossy zinc
AP2 is chill at the lower end of 40.
You just need any +% Attack boon really. Shouldn't be that hard to get.
Well, any that's not Tempest Strike. 
bronze viper
And it means I can't ever take hammers because of Cursed Slash
mossy zinc
Nah, the risk is low.
And if you do get it, just make it work anway.
That's the real flex.
bronze viper
I am. Owl Pendant > Shackle > Acorn/Shackle > Acorn/Shackle (if I get an attack boon)
This is going to go terribly
mossy zinc
Hmm.
I'd take Coin Purse over Shackle in Asphodel.
The nice thing is AP2 is a lot of heat you don't need to put into something else.
bronze viper
What in the hell is up with Thugs in 1.0. They spawn infinitely
daring hedge
thank you! yeah, i got lucky and zeus exchanged my aphro attack in tartarus, then it got eurydice'd
also yeah ledger i've noticed the same thing
daring hedge
went overtime in elysium still, then got 3sack with TD3
mossy zinc
Getting all the weapons to 50?
daring hedge
trying to! i'd like to do it with aspects i particularly enjoy though, and like
zeus shield with TD3 is pain
mossy zinc
You don't like Beowulf?
daring hedge
oh i do, i mean moreso my faves
daring hedge
lol
mossy zinc
It certainly became mine when I did 52.
bronze viper
HA, joke's on you Dad, I died at EM4 so I can officially say I died at 40 heat instead of 36 lol (I died to TD3)
bronze viper
I also showed the Soul Catchers who was boss, I lost all 5 of my Acorns to having literally no idea how to dodge 0 FO dad spins under Greater Consecration.
It's so slow I have to run into it
daring hedge
lol
i've had the same thing happen when i have numbing sensation uptime
i notice i get hit by his spins way more frequently
bronze viper
There's a nice tempo to dodging spins in FO2
You have to sit and react without it lol
daring hedge
exactly
bronze viper
... Okay, I recognize that FO2 is a terrible idea with Excal, but I just went through Tartarus hitless so I guess I'm just too used to it at this point.
bronze viper
Pff, I haven't gotten there yet, give me a chance to die to White Lernies
Paused the recording, have to take a work break
(break from Hades to work)
wraith imp
@daring hedge
I watched your 50 heat unseeded bow run. Extremely Impressive. I picked up some things that I had never noticed before. For instance, the triple shot hammer has a small region where all 3 directional arrows overlap which triples damage. It's risky with bosses but that's where dash+backstab and/or the acorn is super helpful; the latter is especially helpful since a player can take 0 damage to fire close-range shots that do 1,000+ points of damage. (IIRC, you had point blank and multiple chaos attack/dash-attack buff boons which helped.)
daring hedge
for sure, point-blank and triple is really powerful on rama if you can position your dash-strikes correctly
wraith imp
I'm wondering if that small overlapping region is because of point blank hammer or if it's there independent of point blank. (I started noticing the 3x effect from the asterius + minotaur fight.)
daring hedge
oh it's there independent of point-blank; that's just because of rama's innately wider attack
point-blank just affects the damage and slaps on a range indicator, and doesn't change anything else
trim sigil
In fact you can even do the triple on regular bows, but it's much harder to land
daring hedge
yeah
wraith imp
this is almost assuredly selective memory talking but i think bow's hammers might offer the fewest bad choices
next is probably shield or rail
i'll eventually get around to doing a matrix-ish spreadsheet for which hammers are good and what boons/builds optimize them.
flat bear
Depends what bow aspect you're using. Most bow hammers are meh on Chiron
Except the special ones
bronze viper
Okay, well, these pacts work great for Excal 40, I just died in the stupidest imaginable way to Dad
So there's that
I got spooked by the urns behind me so I dodge into all of the lasers.
All of them
flat bear
Oh noey 