neat, thanks for the link
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mystic apex
dull scroll
Looks mostly reasonable
static plover
TD3 on its own is fine, combine it with other pact options it becomes exponentially harder
dull scroll
TD2 is reasonable, as long as you don't also get JS
dull scroll
Well, if it's just those, sure
shy axle
TD3 alone is really just clear tartarus in 5 min, get like =3 min in asphodel then ur chill
mossy zinc
I mean with those + anything else at high heat.
shy axle
JS3 with CP2 r u insane bro
mossy zinc
TD2 now is way more lenient than pre-1.0 TD2.
mystic apex
hmm is DC2 a good pick for heat 32 beowulf?
mossy zinc
No.
shy axle
nah
static plover
Pre 1.0 TD2 
mossy zinc
DC is bad for Beowulf.
mystic apex
avoid DC1 too then?
dull scroll
Might take DC1 if you get a dash very early
mystic apex
I see
shy axle
id go CP honestly. Big health bad yeah but u can block plus u got mega burst damage
dull scroll
Like athena dash, for example
mystic apex
yeah CP makes sense
I still overkill by accident all the time so maybe that'll help lol
mossy zinc
JS and CP aren't issues at all for Beowulf.
mystic apex
noted
wraith imp
I just did a poseidon cast run on beowulf. it was...surprisingly underwhelming. I thought poseidon cast + razor shoals would do a lot of work but was not impressed by damage numbers. dio's cast (especially with demeter's ice wine duo) appears to be the best for beowulf's cast.
My poseidon cast was 178 per and razor shoals was 30 per 0.2 sec.
So it should've been doing around 1000 point of damage. (178x3 + 30x5x3) But it felt like razor shoals wasn't working correctly. The beowulf + poseidon cast combo was doing around 600-700 points of damage.
beowulf + dio cast felt way stronger. 450*4 (i had 4 casts) and 30% from ice wine.
I was seeing anywhere from 1500 to 2500 damage on screen and it was usually closer to the latter.
dull scroll
Guessing shoals don't stack
Oh, I guess it's 30x5 per second for 3 seconds, not 3 shoals
I'm still not sure how they work, though. It says, "While moving" - meaning to get full damage, the target has to keep constanly moving throughout the 3 seconds that they're affected
wraith imp
Right...and hades is almost always moving.
dull scroll
Is he, though? A lot of time he just stands around and shoots skulls or summons vases
wraith imp
he varies by fight. in some fights, he goes ham on the spins
besides, when he vanishes...status curses are reset (which is annoying).
dusty stone
does damage control negate status effects?
wraith imp
does damage control negate status effects?
@dusty stone
yes
example: ares doom will take on blue heart
dusty stone
but if i damage with a weak effect for exempla does it apply the weak?
wraith imp
that's an interesting question
i've never noticed.
i suppose someone can wonder the same thing about razor shoals or jolted.
dusty stone
or hangover
wraith imp
yep
it's probably because when i take dc1 or 2, it's on high heat and the action is happening too fast
perhaps one of the super talented players here can answer that for you.
@dull scroll
Re: beowulf + dio cast
My dio cast: it wasn't even uber strong (though it was strong to quite strong :)).
i started with a rare poseidon cast (instead of epic) and i didn't get sweet nectar. i also didn't use persephone's keepsake on this run.
i'm nearly sure it's possible to get poseidon's cast to around 500 but 600 seems impossible since poms have diminishing returns.
it seems to me it would be better to have more casts through (1) chaos boons and (2) prometheus stones. arty's legendary is too hard to get.
imagine walking into asterius+minotaur fight or hades fight with a lvl 10 dio cast on beowulf and 8-10 casts.
dull scroll
DC takes damage, but statuses still apply
Hangover, weak and so on will still apply to the enemy even if the attack that applies them is taken by the shield
honest kernel
pos cast is prob gonna do a lot more with sea storm
wraith imp
i think so too. when i took razor shoals, sea storm was offered. but i went with razor shoals simply because i wanted to try it out.
but sea storm is in the merciful doom tier for me...it's somehow overpowered despite doing only 40 damage.
likewise, i also don't understand why zeus aid is so strong. even if you have zeus aid that does around 120 damage per quartile...it feels like it does 750-100 points of damage. assuming damage is 120 and lightning strikes 3-4 times in that 1.5 second span (without double strike boon), it should be doing 360-480 points of damage.
but zeus aid never fails to chunk (i.e. rapid decline of health bar) against bosses. i don't get it.
/shrug
lost otter
@wraith imp Jolted?
chrome bramble
do you get backstab bonus if you stand behind the enemy while calling zeus aid?
lost otter
and poseidon cast power its not main damage.It huge know back effect. and with out slam boons its trash. becaus 1 slam boon can add 100-200 damage. both 200-400/ with legendary its +800 pet cast.and they have insane scaling bonus.and poseidon legendary makes Sea storm attack TWICE. becaus damage come after know back.
daring hedge
@chrome bramble zeus bolts cannot backstab. also questions like these would be better suited to either #h1-discussion or #h1-builds-and-combat
chrome bramble
ty
wraith imp
@lost otter
jolted doesn't seem to impact zeus aid as much as one would think. it helps but most of the damage is somehow coming from zeus aid alone.
there's plenty of boons that have a huge outsized effect if used correctly. for instance, breaking wave (especially epic tier) is one of those underrated gems that can somehow scale up into the thousands if a mini-boss or boss gets pinned next to a wall/corner/pillar.
lost otter
Jolted can do easy 800 damage under zeus aid alone. for example :bull(asterius) run to you. and almost all bosses have this window. and jolted can do insane damage in this window.With Demeter Duo jolted melt.
honest kernel
do the dio duo casts work with beo actually
crystal iron
they do
at least Ice Wine works, but there is no reason why Scintillating Feast wouldn't work.
loud raptor
dio duo beo
what rhyme
lost otter
loud raptor
dioduobeodioduobeodiddoohbodiddudbedid
also, how do you deal with FO1/2 Sneak(the miniboss dude who teleports and shoots shooty things in tartarus)
lost otter
Hoody man?) deflect back) or burst with cast. but one of best solutions for melee be sneaky. you need hide behind a column on bottom. and he appears near you. very handy to melee weapon.
honest kernel
you just wait till he stabs
lost otter
he can not only trow arrows)
loud raptor
I've never been in a sneaky fight long enough to find it stabbing me
I die, or Sneak dies
loud raptor
huh
wraith imp
Jolted can do easy 800 damage under zeus aid alone. for example :bull(asterius) run to you. and almost all bosses have this window. and jolted can do insane damage in this window.With Demeter Duo jolted melt.
@lost otter
questions:
- are you talking about 25% of the call bar or full call bar?
- on a single enemy or group of enemies?
also, when i have zeus aid i rarely have jolted so zeus aid is still chunking somehow without jolted or double strike.
/shrug
loud raptor
chiron sneak fight was always a pain cause the target mark seems to disappear, thanks
lost otter
@lost otter
questions:
- are you talking about 25% of the call bar or full call bar?
- on a single enemy or group of enemies?
also, when i have zeus aid i rarely have jolted so zeus aid is still chunking somehow without jolted or double strike.
/shrug
@wraith imp 1 bar. 1 enemy 800 damage. or no one know how powerfull jolted with poms? you just can kill all enemy in room just dashing +jolted. even if you dash can be from dio or another god.
loud raptor
what
a single bar, single target 800 damage with jolted alone?
did zeus do steroids
wraith imp
yeah, i've never seen that against a single enemy.
/shrug
wraith imp
@lost otter
many build combinations can be overpowered and work super well if reinforced by optimal boons.
But i'm talking about zeus aid (without the aid of ancillary boons like jolted) and only 2-3 poms can take 15% of a boss's health
@lost otter
yes?
jolted is supposed to affect only 1 attack...unless helped by cold fusion
lost otter
but under aid when for example window when enemy try attacking you. jolted can proc 2-4 times.
wraith imp
like...a zeus aid that is leveled up to say mid-80s is somehow doing 500-700 points of damage in 1.5 seconds. like...wut?
lost otter
on one bar yes. 600-800 damage posible. but with out jolted and double strike i dont know.
wraith imp
slightly different topic:
btw, sea storm with rama with poseidon special? INJECT THAT RIGHT INTO MY VEINS
works kinda absurdly well
that's probably my ticket to a 32+ heat clear on bow
lost otter
jesus. take chiron for this.
wraith imp
i had the idea to try sea storm on chiron first...but just took rama out of a whim and yeah...IT CHUNKS!
loud raptor
oh yeah
chiron, pos special, sea storm, nobody around a 30m radius
you can literally blast them away
wraith imp
strangely enough...chiron and zeus special was disappointing.
static plover
it's because of thunder flourishes 0.2 second (single target) internal cooldown Cinematic
honest kernel
yeah bc chiron is too fast for zeus special
wraith imp
i had everything except legendazy on zeus (special, jolted, double strike, high voltage) for chiron. i was...uh...not impressed.
game refused to give splitting bolt
it's because of thunder flourishes 0.2 second (single target) internal cooldown Cinematic
@static plover
i don't really understand the technical stuff...i'm a noob.
ELI5
"explain it like i'm 5"
loud raptor
it's because of thunder flourishes 0.2 second (single target) internal cooldown Cinematic
@static plover oh wait, the cooldown's per target?
lost otter
to be honestly WORST desigion to find zeus legendary. becaus CD. better to find poseidon legendary. same effect but delay befor second know back and second sea storm proc.
loud raptor
thunder flourish bolts will fire every 0.2 seconds at fastest @wraith imp
honest kernel
basicially chiron wont cause zeus special to proc as many times as you would want to
bc the arrows chain too fast
wraith imp
thunder flourish bolts will fire every 0.2 seconds maximum @wraith imp
@loud raptor
lmao,
you all have a lot more faith in my reading comprehension skills.
lost otter
basicially chiron wont cause zeus special to proc as many times as you would want to
@honest kernel with poseidon legendary it work well.
wraith imp
so...help me translate.
honest kernel
what
wraith imp
a bolt will only fire every 0.2 seconds?
is that different from other weapons like zeus shield?
honest kernel
and chiron arrows are faster than that
wraith imp
oh
honest kernel
no its always this on thunder flourish
wraith imp
ok, THAT makes sense
lost otter
becaus every arrow move target alote and you avoid hitting faster than 0.2 second
wraith imp
no wonder thunder flourish works so well on zeus shield
shield rotation is not as fast
lost otter
that why on chiron you wana POSEIDON legendary. not zeus.
honest kernel
but if you have pos flourish you dont have zeus flourish
I dont understand what you mean
loud raptor
is it per target tho
honest kernel
but he pinged me
wraith imp
oh
honest kernel
whatever
lost otter
read sea storm description. after read poseidon legendary
honest kernel
ok sweetie
lost otter
poseidon legendary deal x2 for sea storm proc.
honest kernel
I was talking about thunder flourish and why its not that good
sure pos might be better
wraith imp
lol...this is problem with discord chat
easy to get conversations mixed up and confused
ah well
lost otter
same as zeus. but move target. and after hit poseidon legendary have DELAY more THAN 0.2. its mean you have x2 sea storm damage(80) same as can be with zeus legendary (sea storm 40 damage and lenedary 40 damage)
honest kernel
also heartbreak is for sure the best one if u dont want to rely on duos
wraith imp
oh really? on chiron?
lost otter
and because the target moves from the shooter twice as much. This allows arrows to hit less frequently than every 0.2 seconds. And on the boss it works better too because of the poseidon delay.
loud raptor
aphro, whose pure damage output breaks ceiling
wraith imp
SO MANY COMBOS TO TRY!
I have like almost 500 runs (albeit many were when i fell into routine or practicing) but there's so much cool stuff i still haven't attempted.
wraith imp
lol...about 250 of those are on shield alone
lost otter
for me MOST BETTER CHIRON.........looks for dont forgot this. is demeter special and aphro attack. becaus its change chiron in AOE monster if find Arctic Blast.
honest kernel
oversky I think u got it wrong? the 0.2 cooldown applies only to thunderflourish
not to chiron
lost otter
and if some one come you in melle just push crystal cast.and dash away. and target be melted.if have crystal cast do much more aoe.aphro for debuff +20% damage incoming or more ( Sweet Surrender)and work well with +40% damage from mirror.
loud raptor
got up to asterius and theseus on my latest first-run
Oh hey how long did it take for you
bronze stratus
no idea
lost otter
and this build aphro demeter work great on High heat. becaus alote AoE. demeter have good damage scaling. and you slow down all enemy and not strugling vs alote small.
loud raptor
nah like, the run
bronze stratus
lots of centaur hearts, after party, uhh brilliant riposte, holy shield
pretty much everything EXCEPT athena's legendary or ME
👍
and patience
I feel like I'm getting better at this over time
I was on 4 HP for a solid 2 minutes in the theseus fight
loud raptor
wew
bronze stratus
if I had ME I'd have gotten through and after party would have gotten me back to ~67HP 😦
loud raptor
I managed to deflect four spears in a row with attack before I died, I have no idea how
bronze stratus
noice
loud raptor
right, yeah, come to think of it I really should've taken after party when I had the chance
bronze stratus
yeah after party is super useful for first-runs
reliable source of healing as long as you survive
just pile on the centaur hearts
and you'll be at a respectable HP
I had ~245 max HP by the time I went in lol
loud raptor
woah
bronze stratus
premium vintage + all the hearts xD
loud raptor
I took strong drink for whatever reason, that def was not a wise choice
bronze stratus
yeah fountains are rare
loud raptor
does fresh file run always start with same seed
loud raptor
ö
bronze stratus
the start is always the exact same room with all the same enemies and the same boons at the same rarity
loud raptor
I always find athena, athena, artemis, then ares boons... with very few exceptions
bronze stratus
the first-run is pseudo-random in that the gods you have access to are limited
you have no DDs
you have no mirror
you have no call
that's about it I think
oh and no wells except in inter-zone areas and no hammers
loud raptor
no hammer, no call, no mirror, no defiance, no keepsakes... I think
static plover
no keepsakes
bronze stratus
I'd put it over 25 heat
loud raptor
+no hermes, demeter... i think
bronze stratus
yeah no keepsakes.
trim sigil
There is actually like 5+ runs with strictly seeded starting room
iirc it's Athena - Zeus - Hammer - ?? - Poseidon - whatever
static plover
no chaos
loud raptor
which makes targeted builds easier
static plover
fresh file first run runs are easily 20+ heat with the amount of things you don't have
loud raptor
fresh% is more fun than I expected it to be
bronze stratus
well yeah, the dream is to have either deadly reversal and merciful end with after party and premium vintage
trim sigil
the gods you can find are locked to Artemis, Athena, Dionysus, Ares
I did meet athena, dionysis and ares on first run so can second that
loud raptor
it's basically a no hammer, no call, limited gods RI4 run yeah
- and a lot more 'no's
loud raptor
o o f
bronze stratus
yeah if no athena I'd just uninstall the game tbh
yeah I've done at least 30-40 first-runs in the past week
trim sigil
Fresh is surprisingly brutal byeah
There is a ton of unlocks which most players tend to forget about and take as a given
Like fountains restoring very sizable chunk of health after each boss
maiden geode
low tier gods only would be an interesting thing to watch
so more or less that's no athena, artemis, or zeus
loud raptor
hermes only run
honest kernel
no ones lowtier it always depends on what ur building
maiden geode
we can all agree that athena is #1 tho
honest kernel
athena is great but you dont always need her
maiden geode
#1 in that every build wants her
trim sigil
The biggest amount of builds* tbh
Pretty sure there are some where even she doesn't fit
honest kernel
her support boons are always nice to have
honest kernel
skim through all the runs and see
I can thinj of several that dont have any core boons from her
but I dont know if they got any side stuff
edgy arrow
yeah no core boons is easier
bronze stratus
@maiden geode hey, dood! how's Etna?
maiden geode
what etna, dood? I work for hades
mystic apex
@wraith imp aphro cast feels a lot more consistent than dio cast for me on beowulf
I'm not at high heat yet tbh but Nyaanyaa is and she's said the same
I know wriste went for dio cast + stygian soul in his any-heat run, high rolling for additional bloodstones
that was really strong but IDK how that translates to high heat and it prob feels bad if you don't hit your high roll
edgy arrow
i used to go dio on beowulf, but pushing to higher heats i’ve switched to aphro
the higher the heat, the more that faster turnover seems to matter
i don’t usually run stygian soul tho, so idk if that changes much
high is relative ofc; my last win was 32 for clarity
mystic apex
I don't usually use stygian soul either but imagine getting artemis legendary with trippy flare and stygian soul
that would feel so good lol
mystic apex
what, beowulf with stygian soul?
mystic apex
now that I think about it, a hunting blades build with stygian soul and additional bloodstones on beowulf could be really fun too
maybe not good, but still lol
edgy arrow
idk whether hunting blades would synergise with beo that well
never really tried it
could be fun tho for sure
mystic apex
yeah I've never even thought to take ares cast on beowulf lol
maiden geode
hello which shields are good in high heat
fossil reef
All shields are good in high heat. I think my first 32 heat run was with Chaos shield.
Just gotta get good with one you like playing.
trim sigil
Zeus is probably the most specific one to try and get into but still can show insane results
Beo and Chaos are without a doubt great picks, Zagreus one I personally find extremely potent if you snatch Pulverizing Blow
chrome bramble
i tried chaos special with dio shield earlier, was smooth sailing. only heat 20 tho, but i heard its a popular high heat choice
mystic apex
I saw a random YT comment that said a Chinese speedrunner did heat 52 with guan yu
don't suppose anyone has the link? it's supposed to be on bilibili but I couldn't find it
wanton plover
those are also my first picks but maybe ares is another option
fossil reef
Ares is pretty meh unless you can stack doom damage, and even then I think Zeus is much better.
fossil reef
Or, rather, Ares isn't bad, lol, but Zeus is definitely better.
His damage is immediate, and you can get stuff like Jolted and Double Strike.
maiden geode
zeus vs dio tho. pretty hard one
oh, that's a good point. the other zeus boons are just quite good. you can move into call synergies
fossil reef
Dio is, IMO, only slightly less good than Zeus. You can't always boost the damage that Hangover does, but you can boost the effectiveness of Lightning Bolts.
But, Dio does have some decent supports, so it's not like picking him is bad.
maiden geode
also dio has cast nonsense that loses out on boiling blood
fossil reef
His cast can get pretty nutty with the right duos, tho. IDK if it's better than boiling blood, but it's still some beefy damage and CC
maiden geode
well yes once you're in dio it's worth the trouble
but if we're choosing between zeus start and dio start, boiling blood is a good incentive not to choose dio.
fossil reef
Well, you don't have to take his cast 😛 You can always pick up another god's cast later.
maiden geode
oh boy oh boy three zeus boons in a row in this run (I am still low heat btw. I'm still learning)
fossil reef
Slow but sure wins the race 🙂
maiden geode
gonna start by learning the theseus and hades fights with FO1
then probably I'll add on -3 mirror
I really like how they designed the mirror order. you lose something strong in each level.
fossil reef
You may want to consider turning on EM3 and getting used to the movesets in those boss encounters if you haven't already
It changes them substantially.
maiden geode
yeah I'm also doing EM3
fossil reef
Then you've got your bases covered 😛 MM and BP are both worth experimenting with so you can get used to fighting against enemies with those buffs too
maiden geode
both of them together are a huge pain, but they're probably used in all the heat runs
hmm, dio or hammer, interesting choice
fossil reef
They are a pain, but once you get used to them, it's easier to deal with. It just becomes part of the game
maiden geode
I have 3 zeus boons, unsure if dio or hammer is better
edgy arrow
hammer
fossil reef
Hammer is good, unless you have limited choices, then Hammer becomes Gambling
forest gorge
Can you rerole hammers?
maiden geode
nope
edgy arrow
nope sadly
maiden geode
it's called fated persuasion
edgy arrow
still nope
forest gorge
well that sounds fun then
edgy arrow
you can’t reroll hammers with persuasion
maiden geode
well there aren't any bad outcomes for shield I think
edgy arrow
not really
except maybe the one that gets rid of your bull rush
it’s kinda annoying
maiden geode
poseidon...
with 3 zeus boons and jolted this seems good
I keep giving up a death to alecto
unsure how to beat her quickly
forest gorge
trap% speedrun when??
edgy arrow
what would that even mean
no attack/special/cast/dash/call/revenge/summon, only trap?
forest gorge
yes
edgy arrow
glorious
trim sigil
hydra goes brrr
forest gorge
...although I did forget about the hades fight
... and the hydra fight
maybe this isnt such a great Idea
maiden geode
just keep running seems like an okay plan
trim sigil
And tartarus half the rooms not having traps
forest gorge
ah
maiden geode
except maybe in TD3
fossil reef
It means you play as the alternate character Felix
forest gorge
I mean ok you dont have to rub it in
maiden geode
oh right how does tight deadline work again
forest gorge
once the timer reaches 0 you start taking damage automatically
timer gets x minutes added when you enter the next level
maiden geode
oh okay it's not the end of the world
umbral lintel
It feels like the end of the world though lol
trim sigil
5 damage per second is a middle between "end of the world" and "major nuisance"
forest gorge
You havent considered the psychological element of having that little red timer in the corner
umbral lintel
when it reaches count down
Especially when you're fighting Theseus
and 10 second goes to his God summoning sequence
edgy arrow
i remember once i entered the champions fight with 00:07 on the clock or something
trim sigil
Psychological element of JS3 when chaos just has to slap you with another +60% foes for a decent boon
bronze viper
Followed by him usually camping a wall with the shield facing outward
umbral lintel
pre v1.0 Tight deadline was brutal
bronze viper
FACE ME SCOUNDREL
forest gorge
Speaking of theseus actually does anyone else find the fight easier with em on?
umbral lintel
CrabBar JS3 + that chaos boon where enemies throw bombs at you when they die
edgy arrow
it was weird, actually; i preceded to fight the best champions fight of my life, beat them in about 30 seconds and scraped through to styx
umbral lintel
and you're fighting the skulls
bronze viper
It depends on the aspect and heat you're playing at
trim sigil
Depends on aspects but generally yes for me
bronze viper
There are aspects that can far more consistently damage EM3 Theseus, but no aspect wants to have to deal with EM3 FO2 HLx Asterius
trim sigil
Just because theseus stops being a turtle but starts being a nuke launcher
maiden geode
FO2 EM3 theseus sounds like a ride
edgy arrow
There are aspects that can far more consistently damage EM3 Theseus, but no aspect wants to have to deal with EM3 FO2 HLx Asterius
oh no, not again
forest gorge
Whats FO stand for again?
edgy arrow
everyone keeps implying that the heat options i run as a matter of course are like, super hard
umbral lintel
Forced Overtime
trim sigil
EM3 Asterius with no divine dash and with melee wep
death sentence
edgy arrow
is this why i keep losing?
forest gorge
ah yes
edgy arrow
i guess we’ll never know
maiden geode
what are they?
bronze viper
Lmao
Hard Labor as a rule of thumb should not be on anyone's default pact set, considering that damage is how one typically dies
umbral lintel
FO2 makes some fight really bad. Specifically, targeting + speed buffed witches in asphodel
maiden geode
once you're in ~50 heat territory it's kinda hard to avoid hard labor and lasting consequences
but yes generally those are hard ones
trim sigil
Same for Lasting Consequences unless you know what exactly will sustain you (aka SD)
maiden geode
because they reduce the amount of mistakes and learning you can do
umbral lintel
I'd rather do Lasting Consequences over Hard Labour somehow
edgy arrow
omg no
bronze viper
Yes easily
maiden geode
you know, my criticism with these kind of games has always been "the meta just devolves to not getting hit"
edgy arrow
LC is terrifying
trim sigil
With SD, LC4 is rather tame ngl
edgy arrow
i get a palpable feeling of relief when i turn it off
bronze viper
LC4 is pretty inconsequential when you get used to it
maiden geode
but in this game everyone gets hit, especially with a timer on
forest gorge
I mean yeah it really is just kinda get gud
bronze viper
You get so much "free" gold from Stubborn Defiance
umbral lintel
God bless Patty
maiden geode
is it still worth it to take hermes rooms after I have +3 dashes
trim sigil
I still feel like patty being so good for SD is illegal
bronze viper
At the moment, FO2 EM4 HL5, it doesn't matter if I have 60% health or 3 Death Defiances, it isn't happening.
I've given up the grind for now lol
umbral lintel
Depends on the build/aspect prinny. attack/special speed is always good to me
edgy arrow
i can’t consistently get past champions/hades with only 1 DD
bronze viper
Looking to do 47 heat like a casul
edgy arrow
so i’m not sure SD is a good idea for me lol
fossil reef
Implying anything over 20 heat is for casuals
edgy arrow
i’m getting better, but it’s still not consistent
fossil reef
Kek
bronze viper
With Chiron*
maiden geode
special speed seems not that relevant to chaos
trim sigil
Only takes practice ig
umbral lintel
I don't think I'm good enough to do SD with EM4
trim sigil
3DD feels terrible after SD for me right now, and I have no choice because no alt mirror unlocked yet
Losing up to 2 DDs on random bs room is humiliating
bronze viper
Once you're at sufficiently high heat, I would probably rank EM4 alongside RI3+, AP2 and TD3 in terms of difficulty
edgy arrow
surely EM4 isn’t as hard as AP2
bronze viper
AP2 is easy, it's just a garbage pact that makes the game a million times less cosnistent
edgy arrow
... you just said it’s easy then described why it isn’t
mossy zinc
@wraith imp Zeus' Aid hits 7 times during a Lesser Call.
bronze viper
It's a complicated relationship lol
It doesn't make the game "harder" but it makes it take longer to actually get a viable run
Longer by iterations
trim sigil
AP2 strikes again. Blood and darkness...
fossil reef
Hey, question for EM4 mechanics, since I've been too lazy to actually experiment myself. When Hades starts healing off of the pots, do you go for the ones he is sucking from right away, or just try to smash them all ASAP, OR just make sure you smash them as they appear
Or do none of the above and just spam DPS
bronze viper
I have been hitting the ones he's sucking
I do not know if it does anything
It could be purely placebo
maiden geode
asterius' portrait in armor is adorable
bronze viper
asterius' portrait in armor is adorable
@maiden geode Omg inorite
edgy arrow
maybe not the most effective something, but something
maiden geode
coincidentally I'm playing a minotaur in my dnd campaign and he's not that different from asterius in temperament
trim sigil
It is more effective than panicking and missing pots while also not outdamaging the heal, so it's a good strat already
bronze viper
Wow, that's sick, I'm probably stealing that idea for my next campaign, t4t
maiden geode
I want the devs to add an EM5
the only change is that the pillars in the hades fight are gone
edgy arrow
it makes charon harder
honest kernel
hades 4th phase
edgy arrow
and a mandatory boss fight
neon blaze
EM5? Hades+Persephone tag team, and Charon while at it
edgy arrow
you need to fight him every shop
fossil reef
EM5, Persephone Appears "TOUCH MY HUSBAND AGAIN AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS"
trim sigil
Infinite EM
You stack up as much as you dare
fossil reef
She been eatin Poms all day, how strong you think SHE is?
maiden geode
guys just get rid of the damn stumps on the surface
bronze viper
EM8 Hades summons EM4 Hades in phase 1
maiden geode
now we're forced to take an impervious call in each run
edgy arrow
EM8 hades summons EM7 hades who summons EM6 hades who summons...
trim sigil
TD hits you through impervious, all is futile
fossil reef
EM42, Hades summons aliens to destroy the earth, and you are forced to endure their poetry to survive.
Only way to win is to disconnect your headphones fast enough
edgy arrow
oh no
neon blaze
I summon a larger and larger man, which allows me to summon an even larger man !
bronze viper
Omg the absolute feels ||when music for EM4 p3 starts. Putting this in spoiler tags as some people here have expressed desire to not be spoiled about EM4, but it seems a bit too late at this point womp womp.||
maiden geode
uhh how on earth do I fight FO1 asterius+
mossy zinc
EM8? Are we approaching Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan levels of power-ups?
maiden geode
I have barely outrun him now and I have 5 dashes
fossil reef
Persephone actually fights like Goku
edgy arrow
uhh how on earth do I fight FO1 asterius+
@maiden geode turn on FO2, fight asterius, then turn it off
EZ
bronze viper
uhh how on earth do I fight FO1 asterius+
@maiden geode FO2, his charge is a Zagreus-seeking rocket from which you cannot escape
forest gorge
its hades but permanently simultaneously doing asteriuses dash and spin
sure hope you got athenas dash
bronze viper
They nerfed Asterius though, invincible dashes (all of them) work perfectly to stop the charge now, so that's valid counterplay
fossil reef
Is it possible to dodge asterius' charge if he connects with you?
bronze viper
Before, he would wait politely in a tight circle for your shenanigans to end then continue the hunt
edgy arrow
at this point i just accept that i’ll lose some HP to asterius charging me on EM3 FO2
just the way of the world
nothing i can do about it
neon blaze
Asterius' perma-spin + p2 lasers would turn Hades into a nice disco ball
bronze viper
You go to a corner, this is hard to explain... and if Asterius is charging at you at an acute angle against one of the walls, you dodge in the space between him and the wall, and he should run into it
edgy arrow
and most importantly; pray
bronze viper
If you have literally perfect spacing, you can get him to run into pillars
He also has trouble charging successfully if you position him between a pillar and a wall
trim sigil
Tbh EM5 should be "all attacks are aoe and cannot be deflected" 
edgy arrow
EM5 is the same except athena is not in the game
trim sigil
It is Extreme measures, after all
neon blaze
tbh EM5 could just add more flame skulls and make them damage immune
mossy zinc
Fight him between a pillar and a wall, dash through him when he charges.
neon blaze
So you'd have to dodge all the aoe constantly
mossy zinc
He'll try to do a 180 and crash into the pillar or wall.
bronze viper
Fwiw, I haven't tried it in 1.0, but I have personally had pretty much coinflip levels of success dashing through Asterius even with Divine Dash.
It seems he can course correct basically instantly to get you
loud raptor
nah
forest gorge
Does divine dash actually increase the invisibility frames you get?
edgy arrow
wait no it should start at the beginning
EM5 is all furies at the same time
EM6 is every time you kill a head, Lernie grows 2 more
loud raptor
i feel like the catch is trying to dash as directly into asterius as possible
mossy zinc
He needs to already be running at you.
loud raptor
and not moving away from the bull once you get his back
edgy arrow
Fwiw, I haven't tried it in 1.0, but I have personally had pretty much coinflip levels of success dashing through Asterius even with Divine Dash.
omg it’s not just me
loud raptor
has somebody actually successfully dash deflected asterius charge
is it possible even
mossy zinc
The real tech is to just tank the damage with Acorn.
bronze viper
I don't struggle with EM3 anymore but I do not try to dodge through him while he's charging, that was just way too inconsistent for my taste
mossy zinc
It works for me.
edgy arrow
what i have learned is: do not try to dodge through asterius unless you are as good as Nyaanyaa
loud raptor
yeah, the key is him heading straight towards an obstacle while making a turn I think
mossy zinc
But the one real solution for all my EM3 frustrations is just playing with EM2.
mossy zinc
I can't stand EM3.
loud raptor
protip: don't
mossy zinc
45 Talos was without EM3.
bronze viper
Unfortunate that EM2 costs 7 heat instead of 3 though. Though for the time being at the 50 range, I've boxed EM4 mentally with RI3, so I'm just tabling that project for a while
loud raptor
I love how you count downwards
forest gorge
Why don't we all just go back to the nice land of zero heat
loud raptor
unlike how us mortals would count towards high heat
bronze viper
Lol, yeah, when you sufficiently high, it's about the pacts you get to not take versus the ones you choose to. It's typically faster to just max out everything then pare it down
loud raptor
I like to think they always have their pact just maxed out and roll some dice to pick a couple to chip away
maiden geode
I can see why the pros take acorn to elysium now
edgy arrow
i’ve started doing that
i still die but it makes me feel better at the game, because that’s what the real players do
bronze viper
It's worth the occasional Theseus drive by to have 0 stress tanking of Asterius charges
mossy zinc
Can you not call anyone pro? No one here is being sponsored.
maiden geode
hm fair
loud raptor
pro-level
edgy arrow
^
loud raptor
Imagine sponsored Hades runs lol
bronze viper
Yeah, I was about to say, "pro" hasn't literally meant sponsored in a long time for games
maiden geode
I mean recently
bronze viper
It usually just refers to some percentage of the community by whatever skill metric exists
fossil reef
At what point would you consider someone a Pro Hades Player?
bronze viper
Also several of my runs have been sponsored by long build times and pointless meetings working from home.
trim sigil
I'd definitely pay to see Delta chamber Ares attack runs
honest kernel
I'm being sponsored....by your kindness
loud raptor
anyone who does a successful 40+ heat run seems qualified as semi pro for me
fossil reef
They're on the Academy Circuit 😛
edgy arrow
I'd definitely pay to see Delta chamber Ares attack runs
@trim sigil two words: merciful end
loud raptor
"semi"
was not sure how many people actually got to 40 heat
maiden geode
as I understand it the butterfly ball fight gets the benefits too right
trim sigil
Time to ban athena too
forest gorge
while I just kinda vibe with my 16 heat win that one time
maiden geode
which means.... butterfly ball clones are possible
loud raptor
also, imagine red bull sposored hades run decimated by asterius
trim sigil
From what I have observed, no more than 50 people actually finished 40 heat runs
loud raptor
perfect, just a handful
bronze viper
How did you observe that, out of curiosity?
neon blaze
Is there some consensus on the easiest way to do 32 heat for skelly?
edgy arrow
we’ll see how much that number climbs when 1.0 has been out for a while tho
maiden geode
oops I died to heightened security
bronze viper
We've been trying to wrangle some kind of percentage number in this channel for a while
maiden geode
rather anticlimactic
trim sigil
By the pinned doc mostly + some leeway on unrecorded geniuses
bronze viper
Fair.
maiden geode
hmm, let's start with the easy ones
edgy arrow
isnt that doc like, a lot out of date
loud raptor
I will someday soon get my name on there somehow, just you see
edgy arrow
or was it updated
bronze viper
It'd be nice if there was a trophy or something for 32 so we could see some level of decay for how many people even get to that point. 32 and 40 are really not that different from each other.
loud raptor
what
loud raptor
32 and 34 felt like jumping from 20 to 30
bronze viper
Huh, for me the biggest jump was certainly from 20 to 32, but 1-20 was really hard, and 40->45->50 was a beast, but 32 and 40 just felt pretty similar
loud raptor
in terms of madness, I honestly just reached nirvana at around elysium but yeah
trim sigil
The doc isn't out of date iirc
Granted, it has a lot of records from older versions but that's still valid
loud raptor
I mean, if 50 isn't a beast i don't know what is
also yeah, I can't really use FO because potato
:sad:
trim sigil
8 to 16 is similar
16 to 32 is oomph
32 to 40 is screaming
Then again, it heavily depends on pacts chosen
loud raptor
^
trim sigil
Could pick EM4 and RI4 and suddenly 18 heat run is death
loud raptor
oof RI4
eh come to think of it I've been doing fresh runs recently so I really should practice on RI4
bronze viper
no pacts other than EM4 and FO2 and I still can't complete it as of now. 16 heat kappa
lilac hinge
are you the real CrabBar
trim sigil
Perhaps
neon blaze
Is -3 mirror really on the easy side? When I have it on I really notice the difference in the rooms that appear, mainly because I have like no hp ><
edgy arrow
no pacts other than EM4 and FO2 and I still can't complete it as of now. 16 heat kappa
@bronze viper wait for real? i’ve done that
loud raptor
oh wait
lilac hinge
if you are, I love your vids
bronze viper
I think I've only tried it with Malphon and Zag bow at the moment, and the Zag bow was a special shotgun build
edgy arrow
fair enough
bronze viper
I should probably go back and try it with range
edgy arrow
mine was beo
loud raptor
I recently tried out shotgun build on a plain EM4 run
bronze viper
It probably also hurts that It wasn't "actually" 16 heat since I only tried that stuff on Switch w/ Hell Mode, so like, 21.
loud raptor
which was a blast, both literally and figuratively
loud raptor
oh, switch, that reminds me, HOW ON EARTH do you aim rail special with a pad
edgy arrow
auto aim i presume
bronze viper
Lucifer? I don't. Eris, it's pretty straightforward idk?
edgy arrow
i don’t have a switch or play controller tho
loud raptor
ah well i see
trim sigil
You don't aim that stuff, game does that for you. Rather unsuccessfully, but still
loud raptor
most of the time, especially past lernie, I tend not to use auto aim
bronze viper
I have completely given up trying to make Lucifer special work on pad
It's so obnoxious
loud raptor
because the projectile speed is too slow oftentimes
honest kernel
oh yeah I dont like lucy special on pad either :S
loud raptor
I hope lucifer special gets a repulse-shot-esque aura or something
honest kernel
it also feels like you dont lose much when u ignore it
loud raptor
I.... am just not sure how to use it
honest kernel
idk im just throwing them around the room during spawn phases
and see what happens
bronze viper
You used to be able to trap some enemies in the shadow realm by surrounding them with Hellfire bombs lol
trim sigil
Poseidon for extra CC
loud raptor
You used to be able to trap some enemies in the shadow realm by surrounding them with Hellfire bombs lol
what
like, push them OOB?
bronze viper
It was a weird thing that enemies couldn't cross bombs, so if you put a triangle around some enemies they just wouldn't be able to move
trim sigil
So like bouldy trapping some enemies in spoils of war
loud raptor
"I shall watch you die, painfully and slowly, while at my leisure from over here"
maiden geode
achilles spear is good for just being hella versatile right
it can go attack, special or cast
bronze viper
Yeah my opinion has definitely changed on it. I usually start with a non-lodge cast and build hybrid attack as I go along
loud raptor
Extra Dash™️
trim sigil
I usually see cast builds with achilles but other attacks can work too
maiden geode
yeah I've yet to add cast builds to my repertoire
bronze viper
Especially if you're going for Crystal Clarity, you need something to do while the beams are kiliing things
loud raptor
Poker
maiden geode
soooo which cast to learn first
trim sigil
Beyblades
honest kernel
arent they all the same except crystal
bronze viper
Yeah I think Hunting Blades + Vicious Cycle is definitely the highest upsdie
And base Slicing Shot is already fantastic with Achilles
honest kernel
like u throw something that moves forward
maiden geode
oookay I'll take your word for it
I do need to level my ares trinket so this is a good excuse
loud raptor
so basically a cast that won't lodge itself in and requires you to fetch the bloodstones i guess
bronze viper
Keep in mind when you use Achilles to use your attacks to use up the x remaining charges before using the Special again.
maiden geode
point-blank shot, twin shot, piercing volley, hmm
maiden geode
that's... janky
but it's a powerful effect. not gonna complain much about it
so which hammer to take
none of these speak to me
bronze viper
Shrug. I just take attack stuff
loud raptor
big flurry fan
bronze viper
Flurry Jab, triple jab, but I'm not an expert on Achilles lol, just learning it right now too
trim sigil
No hammers are actually relevant for that iirc. Except serrated point bad 
maiden geode
definitely
I wasn't expecting hammer to be good here, I just happened to start with one
bronze viper
Does each hit of serrated point consume a charge of Achilles' buff? If 1 dash-strike always = 1 charge, that's actually kind of nuts
Worth trying at least
trim sigil
That is an idea for sure. I said "bad" because for cast specifically it is, but if you dedicate to dash strikes, sounds promising
bronze viper
Yeah in that case it's very comparable to the Hades aspect play loop
Not nearly as strong, but you have the cast synergies too
As it stands, none of the hammers are going to do much for your cast build, you may as well diversify. Plus with the non-lodging casts, they all have some kind of downtime
maiden geode
oh god I ran into a nasty floor 1 fight. the grabby hands with clones and lasers
I got grabbed and lasered
trim sigil
Alwats have been
mossy zinc
My tactic for those is to not let them grab me or laser me.
maiden geode
that is a good tactic
buoyant hedge
i hate cloner lasers
bronze viper
They've gotten rocket boosters installed since
mossy zinc
Elite Wringers are a lot faster now than they used to be, yeah.
1.0 Elite Wringers are basically pre-1.0 Speeder Wringers.
loud raptor
My tactic for those is to not let them grab me or laser me.
quite a solid tip there
bronze viper
Hypnos level tips
trim sigil
I see a hypnos school right there yes
mossy zinc
Thanks. It's how I beat 52. 
loud raptor
well tbf coming from nyaa I guess it must work
Thanks. It's how I beat 52.
"How do you beat 52?"
"Don't get hit."
trim sigil
Sounds like it should work all the way up to 58
mossy zinc
Hypnos is the MMO vet who's done all the endgame content and is only there now to troll the noobs.
bronze viper
Tbf nowadays you have to reconcile the fact that you're not tossing 18-wheelers at your enemies, merely just SUVs
maiden geode
sooo
mossy zinc
Sooo?
maiden geode
err crap forgot my question
forest gorge
I mean hypnos really did just ||doodle his way into everyone respecting him and the work he does||
maiden geode
ah I remember it. am I supposed to take ares dash with this cast
bronze viper
Nope, Divine Dash as always
loud raptor
I don't think that'd be necessary
my english is getting worse everyday
buoyant hedge
hm i got a question, I'm raising the heat on zeus shield, which pacts should i avoid
mossy zinc
I've no idea what the build is, but that's the answer.
@buoyant hedge the answer is you should take Divine Dash.
buoyant hedge
i agree thanks
maiden geode
oh forgot, divine dash divine dash divine dash
so if athena dash is so good why are we still taking purse in asphodel
mossy zinc
Honestly, anything works. Avoid taking JS CP DC in combination with TD, though. Either those pacts or TD.
You take the Coin Purse in Asphodel if you have Divine Dash already.
honest kernel
I love how my gods of choice are always the girl gang
mossy zinc
Or if you already have 4 gods because forcing a 5th tends to mess with synergies.
buoyant hedge
if you're taking coin purse in asphodel I assume you're running whatever's core to the build in tartarus?
mossy zinc
Acorn at high heats if you're running EM3 or above.
loud raptor
I love how my gods of choice are always the girl gang
imagine taking dionysus smh
mossy zinc
If you're not running EM3+, you don't need Acorn in Elysium.
If Lady Athena is already in your pool by Asphodel because you've already picked up a boon from her, you don't need to force her in Asphodel. She'll appear again anyway. So you'd get more value out of Coin Purse.
Same for any other gods you'd want to force in Asphodel.
buoyant hedge
the best zeus shield build is prob just gonna be merciful end, isnt it
honest kernel
the best run so far was w thunder flourish actually iirc
mossy zinc
Hourglass and Coin Purse are both great picks for Elysium at 0–20 Heat.
buoyant hedge
ohh thunder florish is good indeed
honest kernel
I did it with divine flourish on like 32 tho was great as well
but zeus is just more dmg if you need to go faster
loud raptor
you people really live in a different realm
it's always harpy duster or spearpoint for me
buoyant hedge
for thunder flourish you really want to just stack more zeus right
mossy zinc
You'll probably get a lot more healing out of Coin Purse than you'd get out of Harpy Duster.
Or more max HP or whatever else.
maiden geode
what does a pink circle perk mean
mossy zinc
If you don't lose more than 1 DD in boss fights, you can run SD and not really need to buy much healing.
@maiden geode that's Puller. Means you're super slow within that circle.
loud raptor
cause the max health gain per region would be somewhere around 80 to 100 with duster
trim sigil
Time to minmax HFD math and see how many purchasable heals it replaces in each zone
loud raptor
If you don't lose more than 1 DD in boss fights, you can run SD and not really need to buy much healing.
I hope
although I have too much fond memories of duster saving my ass to let it go
honest kernel
achievments forced me to play with duster and I didnt like it :S
mossy zinc
@trim sigil I'm eagerly awaiting your results.
trim sigil
Gotta be a while because dusa is cleaning rafters with it rn
mossy zinc
It will change nothing about how I play because LC4, but it's important research.
loud raptor
LC4 sheesh
mossy zinc
We'd have figured out things like that long ago if they hadn't added SD lol.
loud raptor
"Easy, don't get hit"
mossy zinc
No, just take SD and revive every chamber for free heals.
loud raptor
the chances are me getting absolutely clobbered and wasting another defiance
never reallly got SD to work
because the game absolutely lagspikes whenever I revive
and my best chances are spam dash like hell whenever I die
mossy zinc
Ah, that kinda sucks.
I often spam Call when I revive lol.
But you have a moment of invincibility after revives, anyway.
loud raptor
yeah, thank god hell mode doesn't remove that
mossy zinc
You play in Hell mode?
maiden geode
am I invulnerable during spear dash?
loud raptor
I usually play hell, but the 32 heat was done on a normal save
because hell mode save doesn't have EM4 unlocked yet dangit
mossy zinc
During the Achilles special? Yes.
Not sure for how long or whatever, but there's some invincibility.
I see.
Then you can call most people here casuals because most of them don't play Hell mode at all.
honest kernel
is there any1 who did 40+ on hellmode
mossy zinc
Pretty sure the answer is no.
honest kernel
yeeah
loud raptor
huh
mossy zinc
I was working on 56 with Beowulf, but then school started. 
loud raptor
that sounds weird, seeing people go on 50+ runs
mossy zinc
It's because most people started on normal mode.
honest kernel
hellmode basicially forces you to take a brutal pact for 1 heat
and make an entire new sav
mossy zinc
And most people don't care to start a new save from scratch, yeah.
loud raptor
and make an entire new sav
this is a big pain tho yeah
maiden geode
I just obliterated the witches with ares cast
honest kernel
I think 1.0 lets you select hellmode from start
loud raptor
I've been farming darkness and nectar for the last 60 runs
maiden geode
this is supergiant we're talking about. they'll pull through with this pain point.
honest kernel
some ppl I know did that
maiden geode
just make it a work order lol
buoyant hedge
you can start on hellmode but for a new player that would prob be pain
loud raptor
some ppl I know did that
PAIN ENSUES
mossy zinc
You could take Hell Mode from the start before 1.0. Just evidently the vast majority didn't lol.
loud raptor
tickbox*
forest gorge
Wait you can just start hell mode on your main save??
forest gorge
ok yeah thats what I though
loud raptor
I had to grind massively just to unlock chiron and rama fully on the hell save
mossy zinc
Maxing just 1–2 aspects is pretty quick. Just gotta speedrun a bit on low heat.
Slower than normal mode, though, because of JS1 CP1.
trim sigil
It's honestly ultimately not worth it to play hell mode over normal because that's just less variety. Unless of course you have some specific request like pact from the get go or PL existence
I say that because that's what I do rn
buoyant hedge
so ik you only find the gods you already have after a certain point but what's the exact mechanics behind that
loud raptor
Hell Runner
mossy zinc
There are 4 god slots.
trim sigil
the name of the mode ironically fits
mossy zinc
At first they're all random, then the gods that you pick up are "locked in".
And once it's 4 that are locked in, those 4 are all you'll see.
Lord Hermes and Master Chaos don't count.
buoyant hedge
unless you trinket a new one in, right?
mossy zinc
Right.
trim sigil
Try to check if you are a ghost I'd say
loud raptor
ah
buoyant hedge
so you could technically get 8 if you really used trinkets (not that it would be a good build but possible)
buoyant hedge
4 + hermes + 3 from trinkets
buoyant hedge
well, hermes counts for family fav, doesnt he?
mossy zinc
But Lord Hermes will always show up.
mossy zinc
He counts, yeah. Master Chaos does not.
loud raptor
I assume not because it specifies Olympians
trim sigil
Yep
maiden geode
these minibosses are easier than benefits package fights ol
bronze viper
Power Couple is still relatively aggravating. Certainly less than Blood Price at least.
bronze viper
It's a nightmare for AoE builds lol
Voidstone be thicc
But because of Companions and shared timers with TD I'd say it's overall way easier
It makes sense now to use Companions to save time outside of Elysium, which is great
trim sigil
In fact TD change makes it so shackle has some Tartarus use now, since it's when your build is bound to be the weakest and can fail the threshold
(granted, if you don't need to force a god chamber 1)
neon blaze
Just got past Theseus in what seems to be a promising run at H32. First satyr tunnel... rat boss. RIP 
limpid nymph
I actually almost always blow one of my summons on barge of death with mm
bronze viper
In fact TD change makes it so shackle has some Tartarus use now, since it's when your build is bound to be the weakest and can fail the threshold
@trim sigil That's actually a great point. Shackle helps reduce the burden of AP2 significantly if you seed for a hammer.
neon blaze
welp, tunnel 5 satyr sack is a great way to lose all your summons, hp, revives and time all at once
honest kernel
power couple is still bugged for me even tho I reported it back in bloodprice 🥶
mossy zinc
Bugged?
honest kernel
basicially when big stomper loses his armor to hangover the next time he comes down the shockwave doesnt come out at first
but then it appears but rly delayed
always hits me bc it doesnt work properly
mossy zinc
Interesting.
honest kernel
I should record it at some point
mossy zinc
F10 it again.
honest kernel
its really consistent for me
bronze viper
Yeah, that's interesting. I play with Hangover quite a lot and I don't think I've noticed that particular thing happening. Though I'm glad to say they adjusted the shockwave hitbox of the Skullcrusher boss to actually make some kind of sense
It's still a bit wider than the circle but it's a lot more reasonable that it was
honest kernel
I think i also triggered it on doom
buoyant hedge
i always double dash away from it since a single dash never quite clears the shockwave
honest kernel
basicially everything that hits him while hes in the air
bronze viper
@honest kernel Could it be that if his armor goes away he's just getting stunned by some source of damage?
honest kernel
maybe?
bronze viper
I don't think that should stop the shockwave from coming out, but it would kind of make sense if it's coded like an actual attack.
trim sigil
It can be that armor stun only affects the skullcrusher only when it lands and turns into a proper enemy
Hence the delay
(not that it shouldn't be fixed: that's annoying to play against)
mossy zinc
@buoyant hedge they're talking about the MM variant.
gilded tundra
what's the current highest non-routed heat WR?
i'm either stupid or speedrun.com doesn't have them
gilded tundra
oh dope, thanks
honest kernel
speedrun.com doesnt have anything bc it only counts 1.0 runs
and no one uploaded stuff there yet
maiden geode
As I understand it companions are best used to solve fights your build doesn't usually beat quickly?
wraith imp
@wraith imp Zeus' Aid hits 7 times during a Lesser Call.
@mossy zinc
Oh really? (this is without double strike, right?) i'm usually too focused on action to notice. interesting. that would explain somehow of the chunking. 85*7 = 595
@wraith imp aphro cast feels a lot more consistent than dio cast for me on beowulf
@mystic apex
i'll need to try that. i haven't played with beowulf as much since it's still relatively new. and i'm just now exploring its cast ability for high heat.
wanton plover
@maiden geode bosses or certain minibosses for me. over time you understand which fights givr you trouble. i see speedrunners save em for bosses or mini mostly
mossy zinc
Passion Flare is ideal for Infernal Soul. You'd want Trippy Flare only with Stygian Soul.
With RI3, Trippy Flare makes things kinda difficult.
But it's not impossible. The stun is kinda nice.
Just difficult with TD.
Well, that was pre-1.0 TD. TD meta is different now.
buoyant hedge
LMAO
honest kernel
I cant believe I just did this
buoyant hedge
that is very unfort
honest kernel
this is how my brain tells me "no more hades for today"
daring hedge
i knew exactly what this was gonna be from the title lmao
limpid nymph
oof I've done that before
I always double check the bottom left of my screen multiple times because I don't trust my initial glance to be sufficient to tell if I can heal or not
wraith imp
on hades wiki, it says crush shot (aphrodite cast) doesn't combine with beowulf? wut? is this accurate?
hollow lynx
yeah, beowulf changes all casts to different versions of themselves
it’s passion flare for beo
tidal flame
https://youtu.be/1Dm_0a5sRqg
yup, that's a high heat run alright
daring hedge
well, i guess just saying no to EM4 worked
also not getting twin shot and having only point-blank until the elysium pre-boss room 😔
trim nebula
@daring hedge where’s hades aspect
U should upload videos smh
Ur channel is so dead
daring hedge
lol the 48 rama is recent-ish! and this will go up soon too
i've just been wanting to mess with rama a bunch lately, i'll definitely get back to high heat hades
tidal flame
Ur channel is so dead
Not as dead as mine lul
Although Tail betrayed Hades Spear for the superior bow
trim sigil
EM4 makes me once again glance towards broken speartip
Maybe it is time for it to shine again. Who knows, who knows...
wanton plover
i tried it on various aspects, felt best on arthur
the heckin adds just eat my acorn
daring hedge
yeah, it's tough because acorn can so easily just die to soul catchers/doomstones, etc. while spearpoint is only useful for those, as hades himself just hits so hard anyways that it doesn't make a huge difference against only him
trim sigil
It is a life saver against lasers, but any other attacks usually don't multihit
Unless someone is so bad that they eat ||two spins at once||, lol git gud
wanton plover
i also tried the bracer, it was bad. next to try is charons hourlgass. if that fails ill just stick to the corn :(
dull scroll
Sometimes dog collar can give you potentially more survivability than acorn, actually
It's 125 hp across 3 DD uses.
If it's the ads that shred your acorn, might just take the extra HP
wanton plover
does the patroclus gift and athena boon affect skelly tooth as well
dull scroll
Yes
wanton plover
5head
dull scroll
And they also affect the chaos legendary
wanton plover
ill try collar and then tooth next
hard drift
does than's artifact not work in styx?
or do you have to clear an entire thing for it to register?
mystic apex
bablo's recent 50 heat run was fun to watch, I didn't realize dio attack would be good with eris rail
royal wagon
@daring hedge hey congrats on your 50 heat rama man
mystic apex
yea congrats!
royal wagon
thanatos AI still clearly needs some help though lol
trim nebula
Zeus shield good at high heat or no?
hollow lynx
@daring hedge just watched your 50 heat, loved it
daring hedge
Thank you!
Getting the perfect clear title on non EM4 hades after running right into urns constantly and playing super sloppy felt almost like the game making fun of me lol
daring hedge
@trim nebula it can be! I've done 45 with it, someone has maybe done even higher that I don't know about
vagrant carbon
bablo's recent 50 heat run was fun to watch, I didn't realize dio attack would be good with eris rail wait Eris rail is all damage sources?
ohhhhh
daring hedge
Yeah Rama feels great
daring hedge
Either hope for the merciful end build or I'd recommend just going full thunder flourish snowball
And trying to get explosive return or empowering flight etc
trim nebula
Merciful end is what
Doom on attack?
Athena on special ?
Or the other way around maybe
rocky mauve
Deflects insta proc doom
rocky mauve
Well you can't get doom on dash so...doom special and divine dash or attack
vagrant carbon
is merciful end centralizing at super high heat
tidal flame
Well yes and no, ME works, but AP2 severely limits your options, not to mention the requirement nerf.
There has been a couple of fists run with it
But that was a while ago
daring hedge
Yeah, zeus shield is unique with ME in the sense that it can easily bypass needing divine dash to be effective, so you can just have divine flourish and doom attack
It isn't a consistent high heat strat really
vagrant carbon
gotcha. i was just curious since i've just started the game a few days ago but i checked out the speedrun dot com entry after i got the credits and saw that's what it used.
glad to hear it's not something you pursue every time
rocky mauve
Wait, is it big enough to hide in the divine flourish?
flat bear
@daring hedge Is your Rama run recorded? I'd love to learn from it
daring hedge
Yeah! I'll put it up in #self-promotion in just a sec
proud jay
i tried to do the old dio special thing
and hopefully pick up an attack boon and a hammer on the way
daring hedge
Yeah I think it's just too much effort to force rama special to outshine the attack at high heat
daring hedge
Chunky rama attack and some experience with going pretty fast haha
hollow lynx
thinkin about how that could've been 54 heat with em4 😛
daring hedge
hollow lynx
you had the damage imo
daring hedge
Yeah I was honestly surprised at the damage being ok without twin
hollow lynx
you had the ultimate melee build with triple + point blank
daring hedge
But I definitely feel safer with twin shot chunkage at EM4
I feel like I'm still not great at spacing those consistently yet
Or I'll just get too scared to be that close at certain points
mystic apex
I've started making save backups before stuff like FO2 EM3 so I can practice the fight whenever, it's been really helpful as I go up in heat