who gives a fly about lodging casts on RI4?
#h1-high-heat-strategies
tidal flame
bronze viper
No, it reduces your mistakes meter per run to single digits and gets rid of your second dash
trim sigil
Lodging casts is blocked by RI3, isn't it?
tidal flame
who gives a fly about thinking about build strats and weighing rerolls
If you have RI4 then you have RI3 -.-
trim sigil
Well yeah, just saying it comes a bit earlier than max
tidal flame
RI4 takes away gameplay, just like AP
well then that helps my point because that's Routine Inspection in general
with RI4 you take one boon for your core attack, and then don't care, because why should you, you don't get cast damage from Boiling Blood, no Priv Status so why care about balancing builds
no boon reroll so just pick whatever
trim sigil
I wish
bronze viper
? That stuff happens at RI2 and it's really not that oppressive, dude
tidal flame
I mean this as a counter to your AP2 takes away gameplay options earlier
there are many other stuff that does the same thing
trim sigil
If you take whatever, then you throw away even more resources than game does with RI4
tidal flame
we can't make them a different mode now can we
bronze viper
40% additive damage, a dash you can get back (especially without AP2), and other additive bonuses really aren't that big of a deal. RI4 is irreplaceable obviously, since you can't die, ever
But RI doesn't stop you from using Chaos or Hammers, which are entire systems, not just bonuses
trim sigil
^
Actually that makes me wonder, can you get revives from Athena boons on RI4?
bronze viper
I doubt it
Since you're not "missing" a DD, which she requires
Even with SD
Chaos probably still can
trim sigil
Ah, so she only replaces empty slots now
tidal flame
lol you kidding, 40% Boiling blood + 25% FF/ 40% PS + rarity bonus is not big of a deal?
bronze viper
It's additive... without AP2, you can get that stuff back in like 2 boons
bronze viper
Because you stil get rerolls from keys
trim sigil
Go for keys
bronze viper
Yeah Iusually get 2-4 keys before Elysium
trim sigil
A lot more consistently than 1 out of 3 option
bronze viper
Because AP stops you form usingthe multiplicative systems
tidal flame
you know, I call bs on 2-4 keys before Elysium
bronze viper
And the ones that alter gameplay, like hammers, duos chaos
bronze viper
It's possible that my current seed I'm grinding on is key blessed. 2 for sure though
trim sigil
If you pick erebus gate/chaos, there is like 75% to choose key out of minor resources
And even without it's about 50%
tidal flame
what heat are we talking about?
trim sigil
So out of 20 or so encounters with a fair lot of minor resource picks 2 keys is entirely possible, and 4 isn't a stretch
bronze viper
49 atm
tidal flame
picking erebus and chaos gate that high is lol
trim sigil
Chaos only because of AP2, mind you
bronze viper
? I literally whoop for joy seeing a Heart erebus gate
it's like the literal best thing ever
trim sigil
Erebus can be a pain with TD2 wombo combo but eeh
tidal flame
well I speaking from watching high run vods and my own gameplay expereince
i literally see one Erebus gate taken on 45+ heat
out of like 10 ish runs I think
that's hardly the norm
bronze viper
It's not bad with TD1
and you get benefits of a way more lucrative Tartarus. Though I still finish within 7m in Tartatus with Erebus
I don't do Erebus in Elysium because I'm not insane
Asphodel only if the door options suck
and if its' Heart or something
trim sigil
Ah well. Getting tired of riding through the points like that
I'd just remind that AP2 isn't that difficult, or impossible, or whatever. It just sucks time out of high heat attempts, and brings very little to actual management of the run
Farewell... 
... also, Erebus indeed will be taken more often if TD wasn't that oppressive. Double rewards is a lot of potential, and I went for them a lot at 40 heat, even if failing miserably 60% of time, I kept getting better choices in doors at least
mossy zinc
@tidal flame Erebus is pretty safe with Skelly, but it depends on the rewards. Like, I'm not going there for obols lol.
hollow lynx
trying 32 with excalibur and these are my purging options...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187458596559257600/736384081977147552/Hades_65.png
i'm so... sad
trim sigil
There goes deadly strike ig
Theoretically divine dash is better to sell but it would feel ass in asphodel without one
bronze viper
It's gross but I'd probably sell divine dash and hope to get greater consecration to compensate in Elysium.
trim sigil
Fun fact, in the most recent run I popped SD that many times:
4 in Tartarus
5 in Asphodel
1 + 1 styx dark in Elysium
2 styx dark in Styx, 2 regular in Hades fight
At this point death isn't defied, it's just put in blacklist
honest kernel
imagine if AP would take away purging pool options
mossy zinc
That's a great idea! They should add that in . . . after I'm done with all my current projects that require AP2. 
robust zephyr
That sounds like it will make high heat runs take even longer. Wouldnt that be really nice...
honest kernel
ikr
honest kernel
trim sigil
Now the only thing that AP2 would have to affect is keepsakes you pick. God 1, god 2, or acorn, for any given zone
robust zephyr
affect the rooms you can choose you mean
trim sigil
Ah well, that too!
robust zephyr
no more patty when u need it
honest kernel
imagine if Patty let you in only to cross out his Styx option every time
trim sigil
just get hydralite gold with lc4 every single time
tidal flame
The run is routed for a certain amount right?
Impressive feat nonetheless, but I would love to know, still.
mossy zinc
What's routed?
wicked sparrow
What route you decide to take.
mossy zinc
I know what routing is. I'm asking what run he thinks was routed.
mossy zinc
All good lol.
honest kernel
duckterrors run right?
limpid kestrel
I ask here because this is where the more serious players are..
Malphon - are they even useful at all? They just seem so outclassed by the more useful weapons, read: every other weapon.
mossy zinc
Malphon is really strong.
honest kernel
yeah its a great weapon
sharp cobalt
Fists of big DPS.
jaunty stone
errant venture
Fisty boys work really gud. But I need a good b uild for it first, which sometimes the run can screw ya oiver with.
stuck ridge
does anyone know if lasting consequences removes the heal from strong drink?
there isn't a "this is affected by lasting consequences" so idk
i have -100% LC if it helps
static plover
at 100% LC strong drink does no heals, but you get the damage bonus iirc
trim sigil
It does remove the heal yes
stuck ridge
thanks, that could have been a disaster lol
trim sigil
The only disaster is nourishing soul ngl 
static plover
yeah, strong drink still does something for you even if not as much as before :3
tidal flame
@mossy zinc the run is more likely than not seeded for the hammer, which is fair. But in Athena room, he picked the Northwest door without even checking what the other is. The next room he made 3 casts before entering the Artemis room likely to force the Hunter Dash on the second reroll.
I think Double Edge, Divine Strike, and Hunter Dash are routed.
Again, it's a heck of a feat to win at 53 heat, like wow, but of course it would be nice to see some disclosures.
After that it seems that the run is played out normally.
mossy zinc
Yeah, that sounds clearly routed.
trim sigil
There is another sign of routing actually (although given it is very far from other, can't really promise it was actually a route attempt)
Entering Elysium, 3 casts at entrance and then taking Chaos gate
still one hell of a run and I have mad respect for it
light spindle
What conditions do people go for to hit 32 heat ?
bronze viper
Highly aspect and player dependent. Safe answer if improving past 32 is your eventual goal is to practice FO2, EM3, TD1/2, MM, and BP2. To complete 32 by itself I'd advise against EM3 and BP2 specifically.
mossy zinc
Anything but RI3, RI4, or AP2—unless you want a challenge.
EM3 and BP2 are way easier to deal with than RI3+ or AP2.
light spindle
hmm, just been casually working my self up the heat system and hit 18 so was just wondering what you would go when you get that high, i feel like EM3 is pretty easy
mossy zinc
Taking TD2 in combination with JS3 CP2 DC2 is also quite a challenge.
EM3 is a very hard fight when you have FO2 and high HL.
bronze viper
If you feel that way, then absolutely by all means take it. FO2 HL5 EM3 is when it starts getting a little silly
mossy zinc
Some weapons deal with it a whole lot better than others.
light spindle
havent tried forced overtime yet so i might be in for a surprise when i get to it ^^
bronze viper
32 gives you a lot of slack. You are free to take stuff that you're comfortable with
Around 40, you can either start restricting your build freedom OR make the game its hardest iteration. Past 40 is when you have to start doing both.
mossy zinc
E.g., Hestia with 2 dashes has no issues at all with any boss fight no matter the other pacts but will struggle with TD2 if you throw in DC2.
bronze viper
FO2 makes the game dramatically different. Partially because projectiles and some area effects will also move 40% faster
And it stacks in a really nasty way with the Speeder benefit package
I am still not sure what to do in open format Speeder flame wheel rooms. Just die is my current strat. It's working well
mossy zinc
Call Skelly.
bronze viper
Lol, yeah I was being partially sarcastic, obv there's stuff you can do. Prioritize defensive calls (especially without AP2) also makes the rooms very easy
mossy zinc
Buy Flamewheel release.
bronze viper
I assume it doesn't work on Chariots though
Where's my Speeder Slugger Greatshield Release
mossy zinc
It doesn't.
Skelly doesn't work on Chariots, either, because he dies within ~2 seconds.
But it still helps.
bronze viper
I remember Haelian mentioning a position you could put Skelly in the Hades fight that he had a hard time reaching (somewhere in the left nook corner) but he wasn't sure where it was. Is that still a thing?
mossy zinc
You'd have to ask Haelian. I don't know anything about that.
cedar spire
Not sure if it's still a thing since I haven't tried it lately, you used to be able to tuck skelly practically in a wall if you went to the left side crevasse and ran into the top right corner of it. It would confuse Hades some times and cause him to run around, giving you more skelly up time.
bronze viper
Huh, yeah, I've only started using Skelly recently, I guess I'll experiment, though if the behavior is like you've described I assume it would be far more abused if it wasn't fixed
cedar spire
Found the old video, I think the layout of the room has changed since then (it's from Long Winter) but might be interesting to try https://youtu.be/-a_jXwdoE2E
Happens around 23:20
bronze viper
Lol, for sure doesn't work anymore, there is a corner, kind of where he put it there, but Hades did 1 spin and shrek'd poor ol' Skelly
Still probably nice for distracting the super elites in phase 1 part 2 so you can burn down Hades (... I don't know how you're getting the DPS to do that at high heat but it sounds nice when you say it like that)
autumn sable
Horheristo uses Skelly in his Hades fight for his Rama run so it can give you a good idea of where to drop him.
robust zephyr
@tidal flame can confirm that up to getting Athena attack, hunters Dash is routed. Didnt disclose this information mainly because I didnt think alot of people would care. If you want I can leave the specfics of the route in my descriptions from now on.
tidal flame
Yeah those are necessary for sure
Congrats on the run
One of the few mkb users I see, too
robust zephyr
alright I've included it in the description now for anyone who was interested
tidal flame
It's not a big deal, really
Like I said, it is nice to know, doesn't take away from your achievements.
robust zephyr
Could be helpful for anyone who wanted to know what I was gunning for i guess
tidal flame
54 heat when?
robust zephyr
Probably not with the sword since losing the dash really hurts
tidal flame
Just seed for hermes 5 head
robust zephyr
I really dont like routing up to tartarus
cuz it just takes so long
Chaos shield probably gonna get there since its the most adaptable weapon not needing hammers.
trim sigil
It does not seem like chaos shield is gonna cut it tbh, that's very fragile strat for bossfights in TD2
robust zephyr
Either way I dont see the sword getting any further than 53 unless you routed out everything from the start and got double edge, athena boon, greatest reflex from hermes on first room in asphodel. Its definitely doable without these things but alot of routing required for that to be more reliable.
bronze viper
Yeah, I tried for a couple of hours to make RI3 work with bow but it's too bad. You need the dash to reposition but also dash strike. I don't think it can work at highest heat
bronze viper
There are a lot of builds where yeah, my strat is to pray there's a lake or river in the middle for me to dance between or just have enough health to tank 4 or 5 chariot bumps
if they're speeder
bronze viper
Lol, that plan fails so fricken miserably if they're Shifter though
robust zephyr
yeah it becomes unpredictable really fast
especially with JS3 multiplying the lot of them
bronze viper
I have literally no plan for Shifter Speeder chariots other than Athena's/Poseidon's/Ares' Aid
mossy zinc
You can stun them if they don't have armor.
robust zephyr
but they have armor since they have shifter
bronze viper
They're Elites, they all have armor
mossy zinc
That would be after breaking it, yes.
bronze viper
But yeah, with AP2, my current strategy is to not see them in a room, thus far
mossy zinc
Just use Tidal Dash with Epic Greatest Reflex.
robust zephyr
They should add a release item for the nemean chariots since their cousins the flamewheels have an associated item.
would be alot more comfortable then
bronze viper
You sign a blank release blacklisting an enemy type upon entering Elysium
mossy zinc
Does it also remove Theseus?
robust zephyr
"You cant go to elysium" because of some arbitrary letter
bronze viper
pretty sure Dbag isn't an enemy type
tidal flame
do that item remove the flamewheels straight up? or does it replace them with something else?
tidal flame
if straight up remove then that's great because you face less enemies
bronze viper
I.... do not know, huh, yeah does it actually shrink room spawn sizes?
tidal flame
but replace then that's terrible lol
bronze viper
Because I've been not buying it if I don't care about flamewheels but if it shrinks room too it's always always worth
tidal flame
if anything flamewheels are fast to clear, albeit dangerous
robust zephyr
Need to test it then
mossy zinc
Having to restart is not fast.
Although, I guess they do clear the room fast.
From a certain point of view.
robust zephyr
They are harder to manage with melee builds especially considering BP2 and FO2
But yeah the big downsides are removed swiftly by them killing themselves instantly even with DC2 on
bronze viper
Shifter flamewheels are such jerks. They choose the rudest times
robust zephyr
Shifter anything is jerk
tidal flame
teleporting flamewheels
nothing personnel kid
I guess if someone really wants to
they can route and reload scum 58 heat
eventually it will be done.
bronze viper
Let's be real. That's still an enormous feat
tidal flame
no doubt
robust zephyr
That honestly will still take forever
tidal flame
I am just saying it's possible
robust zephyr
How do you reload scum though? Is that just giving up repeatedly?
Because dont we do that all
tidal flame
via profile_temp.sav
robust zephyr
wait you can copy your save?
bronze viper
You can reattempt content using saves
robust zephyr
wow that sounds dirty
tidal flame
make a copy everytime you enter a room
bronze viper
I've been doing it like an idiot apparently but yeah, you can do it real convenient like
robust zephyr
i remember that there was a speedrunner tool that let you copy perm saves
tidal flame
wow that sounds dirty
I mean it's called save scumming for a reason
robust zephyr
but it didnt do run saves
tidal flame
lol it's super easy to write a macro
and make a copy of a file when you hit a hotkey
bronze viper
it's also literally a button click to copy pasta the file if you have it open in another tab
robust zephyr
I wonder if we should be discussing this considering the devs see this chat alot :/
bronze viper
I still maintain that it is trivial to keep saves obfuscated. It seems it was done this way by design.
tidal flame
I wonder if we should be discussing this considering the devs see this chat alot :/
well thing is, the way the sav system works is to prevent save corruption and easy back up of saves
bronze viper
Also it's your own file system.
tidal flame
and the way it's implemented is p standard for games in general
bronze viper
You aren't even manipulating their game
robust zephyr
True i guess
tidal flame
so no, I doubt they will change the way the game is saved to stop some people trying to what we said
bronze viper
But it's not a federal crime to move and rename files in your own computer lol
robust zephyr
If you really wanted to cheat thats your problem
tidal flame
is it really cheating though?
hardy bobcat
hey what are you guys talking about? altering saves or something like that?
tidal flame
save scumming
hardy bobcat
oh like replacing your save if you lose a run?
robust zephyr
I mean its using game files in a not intended way to get an advantage is that not cheating
bronze viper
Cheating implies that you're gaining a discernable advantage. You still have to beat the content with your own hands
hollow lynx
can you "cheat" a single-player game
tidal flame
oh like replacing your save if you lose a run?
well you can do that, but here people are more concerned but repeatedly reloading to clear something like 58 heat
you can certainly do that on normal runs
but why
hardy bobcat
oh gotcha
uncut pebble
so what is generally the best way to get at beating my first 32 run what weapon aspect and what pacts not to take ?
bronze viper
Especially at high heat, you can't really save scum bosses to death. To do so means... you beat the boss
tidal flame
save scumming is 'standard' in games like Fire Emblem, XCOM, etc.
clever otter
Please don’t joke about that and keep it clean @bronze viper
robust zephyr
I mean i see the potential for it to be used to practice bosses but there also exists the potential to cheat rng
hollow lynx
so what is generally the best way to get at beating my first 32 run what weapon aspect and what pacts not to take ?
i've been getting really close with excal
bronze viper
Sorry :3
robust zephyr
anyway i think its a good cue to move onto greener pastures
hardy bobcat
@uncut pebble Shield with chaos aspect was the easiest for me
Zeus on special and gg
just go full zeus
hollow lynx
don't take damage control with arthur aspect, and certain combinations of BP2 are run-ending on it
tidal flame
yup, for an easy time Chaos and Thunder Flourish
robust zephyr
DC2 really hurts on Arthur so dont use that
bronze viper
Zeus, Dio, Ares are fine at 32. I did it with Artemis lol
Didn't know better. DIdn't notice a difference
tidal flame
or Chaos and anything, really. but Zeus is the fastest
bronze viper
AP2, RI3+
tidal flame
any of the RNG and mirror limits stuff
robust zephyr
Yeah its flat dmg and it basically does about triple the base dmg (since chaos shield special dmg is 15 thunderflourish at epic is 40). Doom also great if you dont have DC2 on.
hollow lynx
damage control is trivial on chaos, so take it
tidal flame
Underworld Customs is OK and should be taken, actually
bronze viper
TD2 if you're not confident about your speed
hardy bobcat
just a quote regarding the previous dicussion about saves:
You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
You didn't grow.
You didn't improve.
You took a shortcut and gained nothing.
You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.
It's sad you don't know the difference.
hollow lynx
lol ninja
hollow lynx
CF is fine to take
bronze viper
Lol, that's a pretty strong and armchair moralistic generalization.
tidal flame
@hardy bobcat I think you missed the point about save scumming. Defeating 58 heat even with that is still immensely time consuming and difficult.
If you do it for 1 heat then lol
58 heat is different beast
hardy bobcat
ok but the quote is still badass xD
bronze viper
You would still need to be a god to save scum 58 heat
hollow lynx
i's personally take TD2, FO2, AP1, and UC
robust zephyr
I personally dont endorse it but yeah i suppose it is still impressive with the advantage of time.
Honestly i found that AP1 isnt that bad
tidal flame
that still means defeating bosses in one go on 58 heat conditions
bronze viper
You can make like... at most 3 or 4 mistakes in a run. Period.
hollow lynx
AP1 is rng-dependent, but a fun amount of rng-dependency
robust zephyr
it can screw you but if you got FP you can save a bad screw up
AP1 and RI1 is where it becomes extra rng-dependent
hollow lynx
although in my current pact setup, i'm trying not to take RI at all
tidal flame
AP2 is "Hey there, how many times do you want to swap out your dash?" then sell it at UC because all you have is one boon that keeps being swapped.
bronze viper
I wouldn't recomment RI1 for people starting out with high heat because it's valuable to learn all the ways you can use FP
hollow lynx
chaos can handle BP2 and EM3, fortunately
robust zephyr
AP2 is like "hey there you got the boon you wanted in the selection of 3 but i wont let you choose it". Spawning the boon is a quarter of the challenge the real challenge is actually getting to choose it.
bronze viper
The boon rarity passives are fun and nifty but generally just fluff
robust zephyr
Yeah honestly when you get so used to terrible rng you just forget about rarities and feel happy when u can atleast get the boons you want
tidal flame
getting a common Hunter Dash feels terrible though
robust zephyr
Yeah but you have to make due with what you get
bronze viper
Idk what you're talking about, 50% free attack is still 50% free attack
hollow lynx
getting a common boon feels like getting a god's leftover ✨ trash ✨
unless it's divine dash
robust zephyr
I mean when you cant get priv status or family favourite even 50% dmg is huge
bronze viper
Epic Divine Dash feels like I've wasted precious RNG
robust zephyr
RI2 makes any bit of dmg feel game-changing
Oh believe me i've gotten so many epic athena dashes before i could even get to pick a common attack boon
bronze viper
It's about as rude as DD boons in the Styx shop
robust zephyr
with SD those are the most welcoming
bronze viper
They don't do anything with SD if you have your SD
robust zephyr
no they change to heal you more when u lose SD
i think your talking about a previous bug
thats been patched out
tidal flame
back in the days when 58 heat was nothing
and people was grinding 120 heat
kids these days
bronze viper
I'm pretty sure I just tried like today, picking up a DD without losing my SD and it did nothing
hollow lynx
that's when i got my second statue, good memories
tidal flame
called themselves #h1-high-heat-strategies and yet haven't cleared 58 heat smh
hollow lynx
tbh i should've gotten my third then, so i can have my bragging rights now
robust zephyr
Oh
you mean boons
for DD
ill let you in on a very intentional feature
with SD
if you lose your SD before picking up a DD boon you get an extra DD
as you mentioned it doesnt work in the styx shop or any shop for that matter
bronze viper
without losing my SD and it did nothing
@bronze viper
robust zephyr
but everywhere else (any encounter room)
it works
best place to try it is in asphodel since u can kill yourself whenver you want
bronze viper
Right, what I said was getting epic Divine Dash feels about as bad as being forced to take a DD boon in the styx shop
robust zephyr
so you know about the exploit right
bronze viper
Nope
robust zephyr
oh
well basically as i said if you lose your SD before picking up a DD replenishing boon from athena
it stays there and you sd replenishes the next room
effectively giving you two DDs
bronze viper
R(#(@$&#@)$* lol where is the misunderstanding hahaha
that is what I am saying. The DD boon in Styx shop does nothing because you cannot lose the SD. That's why it feels bad
robust zephyr
So you know the exploit then my bad
But yeah i get what you mean by it being useless in the shop
still i think last stand still is worth
even in shops
basically perma touch of styx
bronze viper
Yeah it's not Nourishing Soul
bronze viper
Gives you basically a Holy Shield after death
You got my hopes up with exploit talk. I thought you were able to say there was a way to lose SD in non-asphodel shops
robust zephyr
nope
I thought you didnt know the exploit since its rather niche
mainly a high heat strategy
bronze viper
Has anyone else intentionally lost a SD that you didn't have in an Athena room?
robust zephyr
alot of people do it expecting to get a DD refill but it is kinda risky
when you are on really rng-depedent runs like with RI1 and AP2 it becomes less viable
bronze viper
No, I meant not noticing you already died in a fight, then habitually running into fire before touching the Athena boon lol
bronze viper
I've dashed from lava to lava by accident after losing SD. Dragged my 10 life butt to the next room in shame
robust zephyr
dying in lava fishing is the best experience
you cant get out of it
since the fishing game forces you into idle animation even when you fail it
only way is to not get into
it
bronze viper
I guess I knew intuitively that you could fish in lava but I haven't actually tried it lol
I guess you could run epic Sure Footing without HS active
robust zephyr
It happened and i didnt realise a fishing point was there since it was hidden quite well
then i had a stroke seeing my dds all go away
and i could do nothing but watch
bronze viper
TD is so loose in Asphodel, there have been a lot of rooms I've done 3 laps around and was convinced the game just made a mistake, no fish here
robust zephyr
anyway i stopped instinctively fishing
due to TD2
so probably wont happen in the future
bronze viper
Probably a worthwhile suggestion to change the fishing shiny effect color in Asphodel and Elysium as the white blends well with the lava specular effects and it's the same fricken color as the water in Elysium
robust zephyr
yeah in elysium its so hard to see
bronze viper
It would be a nightmare if Elysium was always surrounded by fishable space like Asphodel is
bronze viper
yeah it's pretty common in my experience
not like Styx or pre-nerf room 1 or anything, but still
robust zephyr
theres just more places to find fishes which makes it common
bronze viper
I honestly don't know why they bothered to nerf the fish rate in Tartarus room 1. The reward is gems. Who cares? Gems are a pain to get anyway, and it gives people a guaranteed place to practice perfect catches at the beginning of each run
bronze viper
I honestly thought it was by design. As in, hey lookie, a fish, here's the sound it makes, and here's what it looks like. Remember to look out for these in your run!
robust zephyr
theres just no reason to make it harder if your gonna add more furniture every patch anyway to make the gem requirement increase even more.
cyan stag
Less fish in room 1 means the odds increase to get fish in a Chaos room.
After a fishing spot spawns, generally the next 10 chambers won’t contain any.
ruby cipher
I wish you could embezzle the dungeons themselves with this furniture and colors
not just rooms where you barely spend 5 seconds
cyan stag
„Let’s place this rug next to the lava pool over there. Oops.“
crystal iron
Just did a 32 heat run (first try too), dang it was spicy even though I avoided using the hardest heat modifiers (hard labor, forced overtime and tight deadline) and took the easiest weapon.
but still, it was fun in its own way and satisfying to achieve.
honest kernel
nice job
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
Chaos Aspect is the easiest weapon?
@honest kernel is that a witch in your profile pic?
crystal iron
yep, I think Chaos shield is the easiest
mossy zinc
Hmm. I don't really think it is. It takes forever to kill anything.
Especially bosses.
crystal iron
it deals damage across all enemies in a room really well
mossy zinc
It deals damage to a lot of enemies, yes, but not a lot of damage. And vs bosses you're throwing toothpicks.
crystal iron
I was also pretty lucky to get +91% special damage from Chaos
mossy zinc
That definitely helps lol.
I think something like Hestia is much easier at 32 Heat. You just pew pew everything for big damage with little effort, and bosses are a non-issue.
honest kernel
its grave robber from darkest
crystal iron
Yeah, I'm considering using Hestia rail and replacing DC2 with maybe RI2 if I ever decide to go for 32 heat again.
narrow mauve
I see I see. She's pretty.
@mossy zinc
And top tier! :3
bronze viper
Pretty sure Chaos Aspect is by far the easiest when you're breaking into any mechanics in the game. It's the only weapon (Maybe outside of Quick Spin Athena GY or Athena attack Fists) that has invulnerable defense built into its primary attack loop. Sure its DPS isn't amazing, but it's serviceable until literally 50+.
autumn sable
@robust zephyr did you route the chaos gate in Elysium?
bronze viper
Also it simultaneously hits everything on the screen and allows you to shotgun things at point blank range. Again, you sacrifice maximum damage output for flexibility, but particularly since you can can do both of those things at the same time, it makes the decision making a lot more straightforward than any other weapon.
cyan stag
I've typically avoided them, but what do you think about hammers that improve Bull Rush on Chaos aspect?
bronze viper
Sudden Rush is a great QoL upgrade. Depending on the build, Charged Shot is quite good. It's bad if you're running RI3 since you need the mobility to compensate for lack of dash, but I like it, for instance, running Area/Aphro attack + Dio special. It scales well with Chaos and boons, and pierces shields
Ferocious Guard is a minor but non-zero buff
Lol, most of the Shield hammers are just QoL. Which is a big reason why it's the default highest heat weapon.
cyan stag
One decision that I struggle with is whether I should take Charged Shot. It reduces the ability to Special shotgun, but the added distance could prove valuable.
bronze viper
Yeah that's the tradeoff
I mention Dio special specifically because shotgunning isn't nearly as important with that weapon as it is with, say Zeus. Same applies for Ares special builds
In fact as highest heat you'll be doing a lot of bull rushing backwards and throwing your shields into the aether
cyan stag
I see. Interesting.
I guess that's what I'll be doing differently with my next Heat 32 attempt, then.
proud jay
is there any solid setups for fist and spear at 30+ heat? i've done 32-43 heat for the other weapons but fist and spear just feel so clunky for me
mossy zinc
For Malphon, Divine Strike + Divine Dash or Divine Strike + Hunter Dash is really strong. Also Curse of Agony + Divine Dash or Lightning Strike + Divine Dash.
Malphon builds God Gauge very fast, so you also want a good call that you can spam.
proud jay
hmm never thought about divine strike
mossy zinc
Support Fire and Deadly Reversal are both great.
I like to start with the Owl Pendant in Tartarus and take either Divine Strike or Divine Dash depending on what she offers.
proud jay
what aspect do you reckon does the best at high heat? i guess they all sort of work
mossy zinc
Hmmm. Probably Zagreus Aspect. But Demeter Aspect is also very strong. Hard to say.
"High heat" is still quite a range, though.
mossy zinc
At 32, Talos can be very strong. At 50+, you probably don't get a lot of good chances to pull with the Special without suiciding in the process.
proud jay
i guess that makes sense
proud jay
thanks for the tips, divine strike + divine dash did the trick
mossy zinc
Yay! Congratulations!
undone raptor
how does deflect on rail work? is it worth taking instead of something like aphro?
bronze viper
Non Lucifer, it behaves as expected. Athena is a fine damage bonus but not as high as Aphrodite so yeah, it's okay.
undone raptor
as expected which means it continuously deflects right in front of you when youre firing?
bronze viper
Deflection upon hitting a projectile or someone in the active frames of their attack animation will cause them to take some amount of damage (not full) and causes that attack to no longer be active against you
Lasers and some area effects can't be deflected
undone raptor
oh so if i shoot something when its attack is about to hit then it counts as a deflect?
undone raptor
alright thats good to know, thanks
mossy zinc
the first thing final boss likes to do is poof
That's one of four moves he can do in that phase, so there's a 1 in 4 chance he'll do that.
bronze viper
My salt comes mostly because the Hades fight I'm practicing has me with Phalanx shot trying to read if he leads with Skull or poof. I have to delay slightly to deflect the skull but if he poofs I lose the cast. It's minor either way but neither yours nor his bloodstones should be able to go into that zone
hardy bobcat
What is the best aspect/build for 32 heat with the bow?
I didn't really like spamming attacks with the Zagreus aspect
honest kernel
rama or hera imo
hera was my first 32 clear, easy crowd control with trippy flare
rama has a great special and greater damage
tidal flame
Yeah Hera is probably your best bet
If you don't want to go for Trippy Flare then I highly recommend Flood Flare.
Another slightly less popular but still decent build is Electric Shot.
honest kernel
did bloodprice change the other flares actually
tidal flame
not for Hera, afaik
at least they work as you think they should for Trippy, Flood, and Electric Flare.
honest kernel
I wonder how it would change hera if it had these
probably for the better
like crush shot is garbage with hera rn
proud jay
i thought it's pretty good
honest kernel
it misses a lot for no reason
proud jay
well that's true
tidal flame
Crush Shot is really buggy tbh
even without Hera sometimes the cast lodge, sometimes it doesn't
it has a mind of its own I'm sure.
honest kernel
fickle just like love
mossy zinc
My love is not fickle. 💗
tidal flame
That's why I pick True Shot over Crush Shot.
One can't miss even if you try, the other can't hit.
From that, I deduce that Artemis >> Aphrodite.
mossy zinc
I always get Crush Shot to hit when I use it with Hera. 
And I always use Crush Shot if I use Hera.
tidal flame
Pick Crush Shot if you want to crush your chance of winning.
mossy zinc
I always win.
proud jay
there's also the good kind of misses where it deals damage but doesn't attach to enemies
bronze viper
For 32 I think all 4 are great.
I am starting to think that for everything though so grain of salt
foggy ruin
When I run Crush Shot with Hera I just treat it like a ranged Beowulf, especially with enemies with thinner hitboxes like those in Elysium.
Makes it much much more consistent
bronze viper
Yeah, people are too spoiled with actually hitting their target with the bow pfff
trim sigil
One can't miss even if you try, the other can't hit.
Lies, my true shot always curves into pillars
Altho still a lot more sweet than crush shot
trim sigil
Hmm, wondering if I should make remaining 2 sword aspects 40 heat runs for memes
bronze viper
i took a break from my 40 Arthur attempts. Was getting too annoyed
I wish the second and third hit had some armor frames
Or that the Dash Strike had a shorter internal cooldown
Err, more specifically, the Dash Strike > Strike combo. If you do it too fast you get Dash Strike > Strike > Dash Strike > Strike2
trim sigil
Well, making that sword more comfortable will mean nerfing base dmg in return, and that is just not gamer
But yeah, can feel you on these
sharp cobalt
Arthur is a big clunky death machine.
bronze viper
I don't know if that's true. Those QoL changes wouldn't matter at low heat but would make a huge difference for higher heats, where Fo2 will knock you out of like everything, and you need a faster reliable burst option sometimes
sharp cobalt
It's absolutely not easy to pilot, especially against fast enemies.
trim sigil
Speeder FO2 skulls 
sharp cobalt
You've got the first dash stab thing. That's relatively quick. Not good enough? Or just too slow to use it all the time?
bronze viper
Praise SSG for making Flamewheels and Chariots basically go into time stasis in the special field though
sharp cobalt
As they deserve.
bronze viper
No, it's just awkward, yeah, for instance against skulls, or casters, if you want to Dash Strike > Strike to kill one, and then t ransition to another, it's very easy to mistime and end up doing Dash Strike > Strike2, and not be able to cancel out of it, which has a huge windup
honest charm
I think this belongs here.
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/520688527412035584
frail crane
Hahaha
trim sigil
Nice
hardy bobcat
Infernal Soul or Stygian Soul for hera bow?
sharp cobalt
Generally Infernal is better if you're going Hera.
Stygian soul is really slowing your DPS there, and you're not actually using the passive.
hardy bobcat
k
tidal flame
Stygian Soul can be better on Hera if you get plus casts boon. However, that's a major if.
Just go for Infernal Soul for a worry free time.
hollow lynx
i'm wondering if it might be better to take stygian on hera assuming trippy flare, since the dislodge time doesn't affect trippy flare's duration
but then again, you lose out on your big burst damage
robust zephyr
@autumn sable No. Although I have a bit of a story about why i think i went overboard with shooting casts. On a previous blind attempt getting to elysium I suffered from picking up a chaos gate that spawned near the entrance (believe it was a more enemies curse that killed me timewise). I dont know exactly how seeds work since the layouts changed for the biome and on my winning attempt (chaos gate was now in shop for that attempt). I think the casting was a sort of placebo belief that it would save me from getting a terrible curse. Funnily i still suffered from that chaos gate albeit from a different curse(dash distance reduced).
Still was a bit shaky whether i would go for a chaos gate considering that experience but i went for the skip opportunity.
You'll have to take my claim at face value since i didnt keep records of my failed attempts frankly because i didnt think i would need them
honest kernel
got to hades with hera at 40 but then he summoned butterfly ball
honest kernel
I mean it was fun until hades
robust zephyr
which cast
honest kernel
dio
robust zephyr
tbh i dont really know how to use hera
honest kernel
you just use dio cast and hope u get a duo
robust zephyr
I think crush shot is apparentaly good too but i never tried it
honest kernel
crsuh shot is like bugged or something?
robust zephyr
wait really?
honest kernel
the way it works rn is that it does the shotgun blast from the tip of your arrow
but it misses a lot?
robust zephyr
wow that sounds pretty bad
honest kernel
because if you aim directly at your enemy it will pass them
robust zephyr
i think dio cast is the optimal one then
honest kernel
so u kinda have to aim not directly?
its wierd
dio cast does the most dmg probably
robust zephyr
at that point it just becomes easier to use crush shot normally
honest kernel
when you get ice wine it goes bam bam bam
robust zephyr
yeah ice wine is the best
+50% dmg just for picking it up
also free chill fogs
Feel like trying cast builds again on high heat since they seem to have phased out of the trend recently.
honest kernel
probably bc they rely too much on getting duos
but I dunno
blizzard shot should still be insane right
robust zephyr
probably without ri and ap
could still work
imagine beowulf but you actually use the casts on high heat
honest kernel
damn
beo actually only works with like half of the duos though or somewthing
I remember trying hunting blades on beo and it didnt work
robust zephyr
funny that by buffing the special the devs made beo have the same problem as guanyu
special build used more than intended build
robust zephyr
~~1.0 removed shield special ~~
replaced with that hammer that was so bad no one used it
and it got removed
robust zephyr
Time to try all the things no one bothered to do on high heat, zag aspect shield on high heat
honest kernel
lol
robust zephyr
i mean crab bar did zag sword on 40 heat
time to think outside the box
give all aspects some good representation
robust zephyr
yeah thats the point though xD
autumn sable
@robust zephyr I figured it was for good luck since AP2. I know exactly what you were debating when that light of ixion was in the shop
robust zephyr
I mean i guess i dont regret it since i won in the end. But damn is it risky to do with ap2
hardy bobcat
damn I just can't like the bow man
uncut pebble
for my first heat 32 run anything important to take on the mirror ?
mossy zinc
Greater Reflex.
mossy zinc
You can do it with Ruthless Reflex, but Greater Reflex will make things way easier.
uncut pebble
easy is what i want xD
mossy zinc
You'll have to link it from imgur or something.
mossy zinc
DC2 is a major problem.
uncut pebble
ok so more cp and less dc
proud jay
idk i think shield handles damage control just fine
but i guess that's personal preference
mossy zinc
I mean. Damage Control and RI4 are the two pacts we've been avoiding on 50+ for a reason.
proud jay
huh, i tend to pick damage control for anything not cast-related builds
i guess it prevents stagger?
mossy zinc
RI4 because it removes your revives, and Damage Control because it gives every enemy 2 hits of invincibility, which means you can't stun anything, can't kill even trash mobs immediately, it stacks with blue hearts from the Savior perk, and every chamber just takes way longer.
Also, clones in Tartarus all get the invincibility, too.
At lower heats it's still more forgiving, but there are easier options.
proud jay
i'll give it a shot since i'm pushing 42+ heats
trim sigil
On that screenie above, I feel like BP2 and FO2, while definitely looking scary, will be more preferable over other options you have to pick without these. Would have mentioned EM3 too but theseus and asterius are smelly so it's solely up to you
trim sigil
What weapon you are going to use, again?
proud jay
forced overtime makes things a lot harder although shield handles it quite well
trim sigil
Ah, I see. Was about to say to tone down on DC2 but this one may make it bearable
Well then CP, HL and LC can all go, in various proportions. Maybe HS as it is rather nasty at some points
autumn sable
Chaos shield has no issues with DC2. It’s a better pick than CP2 for sure
Especially with Zeus
@uncut pebble IMO, avoiding BP2, EM3, and TD2 altogether will make the run harder than it needs to be. Especially since you’re running Zeus special chaos shield
proud jay
gz boyo
bow was probably my first 32 heat, but things seem to get awkward around 40ish heat
actually who am i kidding, we all know it was chaos shield
sharp cobalt
Do you all ever fight Charon at high heat?
proud jay
i get my ass kicked whenever i try him with forced overtime on
trim sigil
I don't visit mid shops on high heat 
CF is a smelly thing
well... elysium shop sometimes, but too concerned of time to take charon on there
proud jay
i've entertained the thought of fighting charon in either tartarus or asphodel though
with tight deadline+2 you just need the elysium mid shop to make it out in time
sharp cobalt
Yeah, time is pretty tight.
trim sigil
Indeed
It gets so oppressive that I take miniboss room in hopes to meet butterfly bol
Because it's faster than regular
proud jay
i guess we all do
sharp cobalt
I remember when butterfly boi was really hard and took me ages.
And then I learned the art of kicking their ass.
trim sigil
Then I meet asterius and get whooped by him 
proud jay
fighting three waves of shieldy bois or archers can be slower than asterius too
sharp cobalt
I really want to meet Asterius more. I need that autograph.
I'm not sure if I've exhausted his dialogue or not.
proud jay
so i just finished 46 heat with chaos shield. seems like things are going to get a lot harder from now on
trim sigil
For sure. Each additional heat point is more and more evil compared to optimal setup that was already taken
trim sigil
Okay, finally uploaded the right thing for #self-promotion, heh
Time to look out for viable cast builds on 40 heat to dab with poseidon blade
honest kernel
charon is kindof suicide on high heat
trim sigil
Chiron bow, got aphro attack, arty special, and heart rend
Then concentrated and relentless volleys
The dream run
... only to be ruined by elite archers in elysium. Lol!
At least now it's clear what to build for in high heat chiron. Poor alecto was transitioning phases after 2 specials
proud jay
when i got used to shieldy bois i started getting rekt by archers
trim sigil
Would never get used to shieldy bois. They turn their faces too quickly to deal substantial damage to them without op builds
trim sigil
Dunno about a buff, but a stagger from arrow was enough to chain hit me
Let me see if those were Speeder
honest kernel
I felt like they aim better now
trim sigil
Apparently they were Seeker
Guess that's why I couldn't even start a dash while walking to the side
Oh well, mostly my fault for using slow weapon
honest kernel
I think I just straight up died to seeker witches in tatarus once bc the projectiles just combo you
evil
trim sigil
Seeker Cloner witches for life
Or cloner puller hands
ughhh
Tbh. Tbh. Clones shouldn't get the perk of the original. But that makes BP2 a tad easier
uncut wigeon
Which companions are worth maxing out?
I have full Bouldy and Antos
I've seen Skelly mentioned before in here. Wondering if I waste all the ambrosia on Dusa's and Than's or just turn all that into titan blood instead.
sharp cobalt
Depends on what you're doing.
Battie is pretty good.
Ribi is quite good for high heat.
mossy zinc
All of them are worth it.
teal ibex
Pretty neat how higher heat actually increases the value of some companions. Rib and Fidi in particular.
sharp cobalt
It really depends what sort of rooms you're struggling with.
Fidi is pretty excellent in some of the harder Styx rooms for example.
Shady gets weaker once LC 4 comes into play though, which is sad.
teal ibex
Their value shot way up once I turned on FO2. Meanwhile Shady takes huge hit due to LC
mossy zinc
Well, taking LC4 is a choice you don't have to make.
proud jay
I like Fidi for hard elysium rooms
because that's where I usually end up wasting too much time or straight up dying
uncut wigeon
The closer I get to 16 heat, the more I realize I may end up here with you guys
trying to beat this game under hilariously unfair conditions
mossy zinc
Well, you are already posting here lol.
teal ibex
Do people like UC for 32 Heat, where you still have leeway? It felt like most free heat (get money, possibly get rid of meh boons), but I've found it really hampered last few runs. Though maybe that was my crap luck with room rewards
uncut wigeon
@mossy zinc I figure you guys know what's really good, so I'm dipping in and out to see what value you place to each boon and why. I have my own opinions so I wanna see how they align.
proud jay
@teal ibex it's not necessary for 32 heat. i like playing without it if i'm aiming for duo boons
mossy zinc
Me girl. They guys.
@teal ibex you would know better what's hurting your runs, probably.
If you think UC is hurting you, then you need to evaluate your strategies for dealing with it.
teal ibex
I think it's lack of practice with F02 that's making me feel ineffectual. So some of the heat settings are more annoying than usual
mossy zinc
No pact is free. They all require strategy or skill to deal with them.
uncut wigeon
Pact of Punishment got me at 12 heat. Feel like the frog slowly getting boiled.
teal ibex
e.g., I never really noticed that you have to do an attack with shield before it goes into bull rush charge. Now it feels like an eternity before I can get to charging
Suppose the solution is to play with it on at all times to get used to speed. Still glad I started heat climb with EM and BP to get used to changes. Should've done FO earlier. Feel like those are hardest to adjust to
mossy zinc
You can charge your Bull Rush immediately after a Dash-Strike.
proud jay
that's what I do but didn't know it's actually faster
teal ibex
oh wow, that's super helpful to know. thank you!
at least if you have divine dash it offers some more protection in transition
proud jay
divine dash is what you want in most cases anyway lul
mossy zinc
I don't think it's faster, but you can use the dash for better positioning.
proud jay
ah I see
mossy zinc
Standing still for long is usually a bad idea.
proud jay
it's sometimes necessary for skipping a fight alone
hollow lynx
for some reason the BP perk giving me trouble recently has been linker? it's just quite awful with HL and puller auras/cloners
trim sigil
It is awful if you have to approach enemies any closer than half a screen yes
And sometimes if they jump/warp in a way that beam crosses your current position, free damage!
Totally haven't lost SD to a pair of linker dracons, no
bronze viper
lol, the best is when you kill theseus with -7 seconds left
frail crane
i also just beat Hades with 19 seconds left
bronze viper
Used every part of the buffalo! Perfect build ez
bronze viper
very nice. I generally keep all of my acorn charges then lose them all roughly at the same time from spaghetti
frail crane
xD
frail crane
yeah, i got super lucky with his adds
swords and archers, for the most part
I think one raker?
they died too quickly, honestly
bronze viper
Yeah as much as I hate greatbows they aren't that scary in that fight. They shoot 800 arrows but they're very squishy
bronze viper
What aspect?
bronze viper
Oh haha, yeah, I got my first 40 with chaos but I'm still in like my 14th bounty or something.
frail crane
probably the best I could've hoped for
yeah, this was bounty 9 or something?
ah, bounty 10
autumn sable
@frail crane the first of many
frail crane
yeah :D
sharp cobalt
Congratulations 😄
frail crane
Thank you ^.^
mossy zinc
@frail crane congratulations! I knew you could do it!
frail crane
:D Thank you 
daring hedge
most recent 50 hades aspect got so close... rip https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/683432275974684679/737515205923176448/ss2020-07-27at10.37.15.jpg
gotta love the chariot summon
honest kernel
I really wish chariots didn't still multihit.
They were nerfed so that they had Asterius's charge and it was so much better.
daring hedge
yeah, definitely dread chariots in any capacity overall with how they are currently or especially with BP or superelite modifiers
wish their hitbox wasn't so huge either; getting hit while you're right behind them when they decide to charge
bronze viper
It's probably an equal distribution but I don't think I see Chariots as often as the rest
hallow stream
we've hit a 12 streak of 32 heat w00
mossy zinc
Enemies have different difficulty values assigned to them. The difficulty goes up with every chamber.
@hallow stream what I read is "not 40".
hallow stream
we're not there yet okay
daring hedge
zeus really said "now young man i do believe i'm going to go ahead and botch your run, alright?" https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/683432275974684679/737553818333610014/20200728011005_1.jpg
tidal flame
Mega F xD
daring hedge
went into champs with 40 seconds left and a huge chunk of my damage lost, thank you uncle
tidal flame
I guess she pressured the wrong points huh
teal ibex
What Chaos Shield/Aspect builds are viable at 32+?
mossy zinc
Anything.
teal ibex
Guess I need to experiment more then
teal ibex
Styx late bag + TD2 trolling me again. Dionysus almost got me through but but wasn't fast enough with 4th room bag
uncut pebble
if you wanna see check my endscreen in #h1-victory-boasting
teal ibex
yeah I've been trying with that mostly, but trying to line up the RNG is annoying
uncut pebble
i start with zeus keepsake xD
teal ibex
I got dream set of boons... the run I did after at lower heat
mossy zinc
You don't have to take TD2 at 32 Heat.
uncut pebble
^
teal ibex
I guess not, Though it's essential to practice to progress much further no?
uncut pebble
You can say that about anything tbh
mossy zinc
Haelian did 51 Heat with TD1 and Chaos Aspect.
teal ibex
Not really. There are plenty of heat settings that add RNG, or weaken or add more of same, etc. Most don't force different playstyle than you'd face at much lower heat
Hmmm, good point
mossy zinc
Well, if you're losing to TD2 because the sack was in the 4th tunnel, that's quite a lot of RNG you're relying on.
tidal flame
Be grateful that Premium Vintage at least gives you something
uncut pebble
More stuff for bouldy =D
mossy zinc
Chaos Aspect isn't the best at clearing fast. You want to play to your strengths.
tidal flame
It could have been Druken Dash
teal ibex
Usually the TD2 losses come to the champs, or from shields, to be more exact. But dionysus hangover shield really didn't have the speed
I guess that's true.
tidal flame
Chaos Shield can be lightning fast with Zeus build and Splitting Bolt.
mossy zinc
Honestly, I don't even see the crossed-out options anymore lol.
teal ibex
Maybe need to rethink this. Or try with rail since last run went so well with that, at higher speeds
mossy zinc
Except when I'm considering rerolling.
hardy bobcat
Nice a duo boon in my 3rd room but no attack boons for the entirety of the run
thanks rng
mossy zinc
Yep!
tidal flame
Thing is the alternatives are often worse
daring hedge
i mean, i don't see how you wouldn't find two crossed out duos striking
mossy zinc
Yellow dogs are worse.
daring hedge
especially when either would be great
mossy zinc
Or so I hear.
tidal flame
Not too long ago when people were theory crafting for 32, TD2 was a staple.
tidal flame
Now it's getting too big brained for me
mossy zinc
@daring hedge I didn't even notice them until you mentioned it lol.
teal ibex
I'm too sloppy to turn up damage. But could replace with RI, JS, and UC I suppose
tidal flame
Yellow dogs are worse.
@mossy zinc golden retrievers are best what you mean?
mossy zinc
Gold is not yellow.
tidal flame
I don't think I ever ran 32 with TD2
Dew it. There is a category for 32 heat speedrun
mossy zinc
@daring hedge just . . .
tidal flame
0 submission
mossy zinc
Do a barrel roll!
teal ibex
Yellow lab is a thing though
mossy zinc
daring hedge
you're right, what was i thinking
tidal flame
Submit a time and it's WR
daring hedge
all i need to do, is a barrel roll
tidal flame
Let me find my first 32 heat clear. Hmm, how do I find it?
honest kernel
discord search function
tidal flame
Let's see, find Nyaa's first run, roll back 2 days
Because I made it before she did muahaha
mossy zinc
Let me find my first 52-Heat clear.
honest kernel
mossy zinc
mossy zinc
I agree. 32 is very casual.
tidal flame
@honest kernel I guess you don't even need FO2
honest kernel
I never liked FO2
but at 40+ I feel forced to pick it
its making me too stressed idk
tidal flame
At 40+ it's what I don't want to pick, not what I can pick
TD2 makes Chariots, EM3, rats, and Hades fight particularly difficult.
honest kernel
am I the only one that can't enjoy listening to god of the dead bc my heart rate goes max everytime I hear it
tidal flame
Nyaa you are the Tisiphone of this channel.
mossy zinc
tidal flame
RI4 this, 52 that
Where is Krashercorr comments when we need them
God of the Dead is that the Hades fight?
Yup
I can even hear the cape whoosing when he enters stealth
honest kernel
yeah
daring hedge
mossy zinc
Congratulations!
daring hedge
thank you!
all it needed was a barrel roll, it turned out
thank you for the guidance
tidal flame
He delivers
static plover
Congrats 
mossy zinc
I'm happy to see my students grow into capable players.
daring hedge
oh i might not sleep actually
honest kernel
nice!
daring hedge
my sleep schedule got all weird and i was thinking of just staying up through to tomorrow evening to reset it
and so, no better time to grind 50
daring hedge
one day bow will get the buffs
one day
though i guess more realistically rebalancing rather than a straight buff, hopefully making base bow better while the defining hammers would be a little less overwhelmingly good
tidal flame
Give bow a dash strike hammer
mossy zinc
Updated tier list. https://imgur.com/a/QhS0gnM
daring hedge
robust zephyr
better update that list zagreus shield easy s
mossy zinc
I'm just going by the evidence I have so far.
robust zephyr
So if someone does 57 heat with zagreus sword does it become S
mossy zinc
Yes.
robust zephyr
good thing im not going to be that someone
mossy zinc
Can't argue with results.
honest kernel
did ppl have higher clears with the zag weapons than with rama? lol
robust zephyr
wasnt 48 heat done with rama before
robust zephyr
time to change that just wait a couple trillion years for that to happen
daring hedge
was there anything about the 48 rama run that would have changed significantly from patch 047's balancing?
mossy zinc
This is mainly just a rough list of "potential for max heat".
daring hedge
i haven't seen it so i honestly don't know
mossy zinc
- Heart-Seeking Bow (Rama Aspect): slightly reduced charge time (it is faster); increased Power Shot damage; reduced fire speed and autolock angle of Volley special
robust zephyr
slower fire rate then
mossy zinc
Bow with one dash and DC2 has a hard time.
robust zephyr
rama kinda counters DC2 in a couple ways but not perfectly
mossy zinc
I guess Rama can alleviate some of the DC2 problems, but single dash is still an issue.
Yeah.
daring hedge
that change was from 046, though, which was the patch that the rama run was done with
mossy zinc
No, the run was before patch 46.
daring hedge
the current 047 hasn't made any direct rama changes afaik
oh, krasher's list says 046
mossy zinc
Says "Pre-Patch 046".
daring hedge
ohh, right.
robust zephyr
i doubt it would change much unless they literally halved fire rate of special
daring hedge
i was interpreting that as like, lingo for an early access patch
robust zephyr
doesnt seem like that though
daring hedge
kinda tired, my bad
mossy zinc
Not that "Pre-Patch" makes sense here, but we can deduce the meaning he intended.
honest kernel
they kinda did half the fire rate didnt they
daring hedge
lol
mossy zinc
I dunno. I don't play bow. I like to win.
robust zephyr
well i cant see the old fire rate now for comparison im sure most of the nerfs to special happened earlier on in blood price
hardy bobcat
@mossy zinc i'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks that
mossy zinc
I'm hopeful, though. They've made Varatha really good now.
I think Coronacht will get a similar treatment in 1.0.
Coronacht doesn't need as much as Varatha did, probably.
honest kernel
I kinda wanna try spear now 🤔 havent touched it since nightynight
mossy zinc
Urgh, stupid Hydra. 
clever otter
honest kernel
its like one of these videos where some guy claps a spider and 100 tiny spiders come out
mossy zinc
I think my game is bugged. The final boss appeared in Tartarus.
daring hedge
oh gods i've had this exact situation happen before but in the C-shaped path room with two spike traps and the river styx prominently on one end... a very small room, you will surely know if my description suffices
mossy zinc
Errr. Maybe. I recognize the chambers when I see them lol.
@honest kernel I won't be able to sleep tonight after that description.
honest kernel
mossy zinc
undone raptor
Oh did they buff spear? I always heard spear was pretty bad except for guan yu
Anyone have a vid for the high heat spear run?
mossy zinc
I don't think Tailesque has uploaded a video (yet).
Not for 50 Heat.
There's a 47-Heat clear from him linked in the pinned spreadsheet, though.
undone raptor
Cool, thanks
daring hedge
yeah, the 50 heat run will probably go up a little later today/tomorrow
undone raptor
What did they do to spear to make it strong?
Or was it just hidden strong all along
daring hedge
i made frequent use of hades aspect's spin damage buff and the serrated point hammer
but i'm also one of the few people that really uses hades aspect at high heat regardless
undone raptor
Is serrated point the dash strike hammer? I always thought that one is really good
daring hedge
yeah, it's one of the spear's absolute best hammers in my opinion for sure
undone raptor
Nice. I'll check the vid later and see if I can pull something similar but for 32 cause I'm noob
mossy zinc
Highest Heat on record for each aspect.
Assuming Tailesque didn't cheat, and there will be video evidence.
mossy zinc
Rama would be at 49 if ledgerdamayn had recorded their run.
daring hedge
aw, dang
mossy zinc
Well, it doesn't take away from the achievement.
daring hedge
of course, and it's great to know that rama can work at heat that high in any case in skilled hands
daring hedge
what build did you end up with for that run lol
mossy zinc
It's not in the spreadsheet. Did you record the run?
trim sigil
Merciful End
Also i did, and even ponged krashercorr
mossy zinc
I only see your Nemesis at 40 Heat.
trim sigil
Doesn't sound like it'd work on bow
Also oh well, there is the thing then: https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/505164873328754688/737355815089995807
daring hedge
point blank hammer with curse of agony and divine dash
probably could work actually
mossy zinc
Yeah, I see it now.
trim sigil
Still too slow ngl
Merciful end is a lot more promising when you can chain dash strike with divine dash
daring hedge
i mean, i didn't say it'd be ideal, but it would work fine
and would work in pretty much the same fashion
trim sigil
Well, at this point regular attack boons will surpass ME likely
Not to speak of how painful is to get a duo
daring hedge
i didn't call it the best-on-anything build lol
trim sigil
Well, yeah
mossy zinc
trim sigil
It's just so sub-optimal that it doesn't really work on highest-heat yet
But it can work
mossy zinc
Define "highest-heat" lol.
trim sigil
(and on actually "decent" aspects it blasts)
daring hedge
but it has worked at high-ish heat? during the tech beta there was a 44 run with it