I did it again guys
#h1-high-heat-strategies
mossy zinc
And the Special requires basically no aiming at all.
forest vortex
Let's go
iron mural
oo nice
iron mural
yeah figured as much chaos really made the mini boss rooms a cake walk
didnt have to dodge anything
mossy zinc
@iron mural what's toxic?
forest vortex
I'm gonna post it in a moment
mossy zinc
The first 32 heat is probably the hardest.
tidal flame
First clear was harder than first 32 imo
iron mural
first clear requires you to familiarize with most of the bosses
as well as acquire darkness to fill up 90% of the mirror
forest vortex
@severe vector I posted it in #h1-victory-boasting
iron mural
oo no TD?
severe vector
damn that was cool
forest vortex
Nah I wanted to take my time with the weapon
severe vector
is it just a lot of life stealing?
forest vortex
Yeah I maxed LC so I could cheese
You know what's the best part about this run?
I lost all of my DDs and was brought down to 1hp by Meg
And forgot to put on Acorn by the time I got to Elysium but somehow managed to lose only one DD
forest vortex
I got used to it by now but the worst part is the shock wave from Asterius
That thing killed me more than I can count
mossy zinc
I've noticed that shock wave is a lot easier to deal with now. If I deflect the slam, I seem to never get hit by the shockwave anymore. It used to be you could deflect the slam, but the shockwave would hit you.
Either that or I I-frame it intuitively and don't notice. But I'm pretty sure they changed that.
Must have heard me complain about that a lot. Note to self: complain more. 🥳
forest vortex
Thank god it's easier now or else my run could have ended in Elysium
mossy zinc
Hey Amir, I can't deflect Hades's spin attack with Divine Strike. Please fix.
Also skull shockwaves. Please help. 
forest vortex
How do you know he's reading?
tidal flame
He always is 👀
Hey Amir, I
can't deflect Hades's spin attackam taking damage with Divine Strike. Please fix.
FTFY
mossy zinc
@forest vortex he seems to read all of the chat here. Maybe a bit less now because they're refocusing on the next major update (i.e., launch).
light sedge
That’s an F10 @mossy zinc
They might not read everything here, what’s read for sure is everything in the feedback channel
mossy zinc
They read near everything in these channels before and after any updates, and generally they keep an eye on most things.
light sedge
True, but there are no more updates for this cycle, so it’s less likely they’ll read here.
mossy zinc
Yeah.
But this channel moves more slowly than the others, so it's easier to keep track of. 
honest kernel
time to turn this into my high heat rant channel
mossy zinc
Yeah, let's get all those evil boss attacks and mean BP2 enemies nerfed.
High heat strat #1: wait for patches.
hollow lynx
i am here to comment that benefits package sucks and you will never see me using level 2 ❤️
level 1 is a necessary evil unfortunately
mossy zinc
lol
tidal flame
Well they did change Bruiser for the better. I think BP2 is in a good spot save for some very unlucky perks and weapon combination.
mossy zinc
Like that Speeder Giant Rat right next to the door in one minichamber that will immediately hit you for a ton of damage when you enter.
I got that same chamber three times in my 32 clear with Nemesis today lol.
foggy ruin
god I hate that thing
severe vector
I would be happy if they leave BP2 strength the way it is but maybe tweak the spawn weight or whatever it is called so less of them spawn per room. I like how when I have to deal with strong bruisers, I only gotta fight like 2 of them so it’s not as bad.
mossy zinc
I think only 1 was Speeder.
But even without Speeder, with FO2 it hits you before you can react lol.
You need to dash immediately when you enter the chamber and not even look at where the enemies are. Just dash.
tidal flame
The rat problem is that the start up animation for poison shake and lunge are the same, aka none xD
mossy zinc
Startup? What startup?
tidal flame
Exactly
mossy zinc
That made me think, though.
tidal flame
🐈 
severe vector
I don’t like attacks without start up animation it’s too biased against melee weapons
mossy zinc
How would the designers feel if we, like, back up those kinds of chambers that are extremely unfair and send them the temp save, so they can look at it themselves instead of only hearing our comments about it.
I think I'm definitely gonna back them up for myself, either way, so I can try to "solve" them.
severe vector
I feel like they probably have a way to test it using the dev console or something that can spawn a specific chamber with the enemies they want and affixes as well
tidal flame
The devs are already playing the game at least 1 hour ever week, or something like that
mossy zinc
Yeah, but they don't necessarily run into the same issues we do.
severe vector
The only thing I am surprised wasn’t changed earlier was the skulls in the final fight being out of reach at times.
tidal flame
Might be a worth while attempt
mossy zinc
I think it's probably not something that's as simple as it seems to find every point where they can go out of bounds and where it's unfair or not etc.
tidal flame
Not sure where to put the suggestion though
My bet is that when you hit F10, the game also sends a copy of the save
cyan stag
Isn't it sort of logical that father and son suffer from the same problem of stones going out of bounds? Although the joke is on the son in both cases.
mossy zinc
F10 is for bug reports, not for "this chamber is unfair" lol.
severe vector
You could make an argument that the chamber is so unfair to the point it’s unintended by the devs therefore it’s a bug
tidal flame
Ik, I'm not saying to do that. I'm brainstorming a way to send save files, if it comes to that
Also you can still get Splitting Bolt level 2 xD
mossy zinc
Time to do some Merciful End Lv.2 runs.
tidal flame
Triggering Doom with Delfect now adds 40% bonus damage
mossy zinc
Also with bugged pom scaling, so it's like: 50 > 100 > 150 > 200 . . .
honest kernel
think I'll give up on rama for 40 heat for now 😔
mossy zinc
40 is hard.
mossy zinc
It's always good to take breaks. Sometimes a day away from the game will help you come up with new strategies.
honest kernel
yeah
mossy zinc
Burnout is real at high heats.
honest kernel
styx feels wierdly hard for rama
the lack of being able to put the enemies in hitsun fast enough rly hurts here
mossy zinc
The Temple of Styx is hard.
clever otter
im trying to get the other statues and i just died to hades on 16 heat. :V i got to the second phase too, so close
mossy zinc
Awww. That's pretty good, though! If you can make it that far once, you can do it again!
clever otter
i actually tried with chaos shield once but my run ended way earlier, so i guess malphon really is the way to go lol
clever otter
i dont really have a strategy aside from trying my best not to get hit, but of course, that doesnt always work 
also deflect, always
mossy zinc
Hmm. What pacts do you use?
Well, I don't know if you're looking for tips, but I'm willing to help if you are.
clever otter
mossy zinc
Oof. That looks difficult to be quite honest. 😅
mossy zinc
I would do EM2 FO2 TD2, and then maybe LC1 CF1.
clever otter
damn i really struggle with FO
the 5 heat i have completed here is from playing maxed HL
mossy zinc
You can get both Divine Strike and Divine Dash for that.
FO2 might seem difficult, but you're not facing +40% enemies with only -75% healing at +40% the cost. 😅
Woah, and they even have +30% life in your setup!
Ow. 😣
clever otter
haha i could pick one i guess
mossy zinc
They don't seem that scary, but I think JS and CP are actually probably 2 of the 3 or 4 most difficult pacts!
Especially in combination.
EM2 if you can somehow survive those 2 boss fights even with just a pixel of health, you can just heal up after that, and then you get to continue on without any bad effects from those two fights.
EM1 with Divine Strike + Divine Dash is actually super easy with Malphon if they don't have extra HP or deal a lot of extra damage.
clever otter
i might just do this since im used to HL
mossy zinc
EM2 you can just play super safe. Even with TD2, Asphodel is so short that you'll have a lot of extra time for that.
clever otter
TD really scares me when its not alone, but i guess ill have to use it eventually for 32..
mossy zinc
In the pact setup I recommended, there are 0 pacts that prolong your fights at all!
It's even been suggested a lot of times that EM2 is faster than no EM.
So if you feel comfortable with TD and nothing else, you'll be perfectly fine with those pacts.
Especially, if you get both Divine Strike and Divine Dash, you'll be very safe from a lot of attacks.
I think HL5 + FO2 will be a very hard final boss fight if you're not used to FO2 at all.
Also, may I suggest getting Poseidon's Aid in your build and putting a bunch of poms on it? To something like Lv.3-5. You can skip 50% of the second life of Hades with a Greater Call if you smack him a lot with that!
So like, you can use that immediately when he goes into his second life, or you can use it at 50% after he briefly becomes invincible.
mossy zinc
Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.
Hmmm.
Well, with TD2 if you just take every shop + NPC you come across, I'm very sure you'll be fine.
Plus, when looking at exits, quickly pause, so you can look at them with the timer paused.
Also, Bouldy is a lot of great value in a run without LC or CF, and you can call him on the final boss even and get free healing + damage!
i could do TD2 and FO1+HL3
Come to think of it, if bosses are a killer for you, I would lower that to HL2 and put 1 in CF or LC. You'll still be able to get into boss fights with full HP or close, most likely, but you'll also take less damage during the fight.
Anyway, I'm sure you can do it. You already got to Hades before, so you'll definitely get him.
fallow stream
When Hades happens to summon Mega Gorgon, do any of you actually attack it, or do you ignore it and fight around it instead like me?
frail crane
mossy zinc
I'll kill it if I have Demeter Aspect.
Or Breaching Cross.
Even at CP2.
Ideally, when Hades and the Megagorgon are on top of each other.
That's safer than letting it live.
Unless you can burst the last third of his HP.
fallow stream
If I don't have excessive burst damage, I'm not beating Hades in general 🤣
mossy zinc
But if you can't kill it quickly, I guess keep your distance.
But you might end up with 2 when he does his second summon, and then, good luck.
fallow stream
I've officially abandoned divine dash unless I'm going for merciful end
I now go with what used to be my most disliked dash... Mistral dash.
Does decent damage while dodging boss attacks, and slows them down making them easier to hit during openings
And, it kinda acts like divine dash, in that it gives you more frames to dodge since you're applying chill as you dash. Just doesn't deflect ranged, but it does clear a path from most projectiles anyway
tidal flame
Good Privilege Status enabler
fallow stream
I tend to use family favourite, but will try privileged status on the right build
severe vector
Give his summons BP2
bright crescent
mistral dash is my favourite of the status dashes personally
but i still prefer divine dash
i like it because its on a projectile so it provides a relatively safer way of applying status on weapons like rail
especially on spear
misty bough
for a zeus lucy run do you think i should go with privileged status or family favorite?
forest vortex
Yeah Divine Dash can't be beaten
It's just too good. It also synergies well with Athena's Exposed
fallow stream
Unfortunately, divine dash is near useless on fists, which prompted the change for me
tidal flame
damn you tiny vermin
I found a way to beat Elysium on TD2
Pick Meg, save all charges
then unleash them all in Elysium (save one for bossfight and if possible, one for Styx)
fallow stream
Wouldnt Thanatos be better for that?
tidal flame
actually no imo
forest vortex
Bouldy ftw
iron mural
is there a way to distinguish butterfly ball and asterius?
tidal flame
you can meg for 5k damage consistently on bossfight
fallow stream
No @iron mural
tidal flame
than is very luckbase
forest vortex
Actually the new Keepsake is better for Elysium imo
tidal flame
yeah the new keepsake should work, too
iron mural
the achilles one?
tidal flame
but with Meg and some timing
iron mural
forgot the name
fallow stream
Can't use it on Hades
autumn sable
1 in Styx is for miniboss, not Hades
tidal flame
^
tidal flame
yeah
iron mural
i cant see it as well
tidal flame
I have more problem with not being able to tell what the rats are doing more than the huge HP
autumn sable
Vs Theseus and Asterius you can squeeze 3k damage per champion with some luck and timing
autumn sable
At minimum, 1.5k each. And pretty consistently can get 3k on at least one and 1.5k on the other.
tidal flame
with meg you can get 2k5 on each quite easily
and better in room
it's a toss up imo
but I am not spending any charges in Tartarus or Asphodel from now on/
autumn sable
Yeah. I think Meg is probably overall better
tidal flame
All-in in Elysium or burst
autumn sable
But Antos works on Furies so is a flexible option
tidal flame
also can we appreciate how Hestia does 507 damage per shot with Level 5 Heroic Hunter Dash?
that's nutty
drowsy berry
Hey all -- to clarify a few points earlier:
-
All of #hades-feedback is read by members of the team. Please continue to enter things there that you want surfaced.
-
We frequently read much of the other Discord channels, but not all of it. If you have feedback for us, you should not count on us reading them outside of the feedback channels.
-
If you run into combinations of Benefits Package that feel broken to you, you should F10 that so we can evaluate it. It's still good to enter it into #hades-feedback if certain recurring combinations on certain enemies feel wrong to you.
tidal flame
Thank you Amir!!!
hestia has too many buttons to press to my liking
Good news, now you can reload at full clip so you don't need to "prime" Hestia by pew pewing one or two bullets the moment you enter a chamber.
tidal flame
xD
you should rebind reload to something else instead of R3 on controller if you haven't already
fallow stream
Found an odd bug with snap nova, but it's not really something I can f10
Because the picture won't explain it
static plover
the description you give of the bug is more important in that case Manthro
if you think it's a bug F10 it
fallow stream
It's for sure a bug, I can make it happen at random pretty consistently
When you snap into a nova, dash strike and then recall yourself and try to dash stike, sometimes it pulls you back, then just shifts you to where you would have ended your dash strike. No dash animation, no attack
static plover
in a lot of cases actually, the description of the bug is more useful to SG than the screenshot of said bug
fallow stream
I'll f10 it, and maybe try to get a video of it happening
If they ask for more info
fallow stream
At any rate, this is the bug, if anyone is interested
Snap Nova bug https://imgur.com/a/uE6EXf8
I've had it drop me on spikes, in lava, and directly under a Lernie head slam 🤣
autumn sable
Could be interesting on a special focused Zag sword build
honest kernel
Used to be the primo Stygius build, before Aspects.
autumn sable
After some experimenting, I’ve come to grow an appreciation for Zag sword. Think it can do well on high heat.
I’d need to play around with snap nova a lot more but it certainly feels chunky.
covert mantle
Yeah i don't like that it just literally snaps you
isntead of doing long-ranged dash like the spear aspect
honest charm
Did someone say something about growing an appreciation for my sword?
if you get 43 heat with it before I do I'll change my name to anything you choose
misty bough
for heat raging around 16 to 32 heat, what gods do you recommend for beowulf shield. would it be dio and just festive fog strategy it?
tidal flame
I find Passion Flare solid
And you can continuously load the casts
So overall you do a bit more damage
tidal flame
if you get 43 heat with it before I do I'll change my name to anything you choose
Challenge absolutely not accepted.
misty bough
alright thanks boss
fallow stream
Once you get used to snap nova, it's great. Snap in, dash strike 2x, snap out, dash strike 2x. Confuses the heck out of enemies and you don't get hit.
The problem is that bug. Sometimes it flings you somewhere random
wraith imp
Things I learned or I'm quite sure off:
- If I have over 300 health in styx, the game will spawn the most annoying combination: chariots with bluestone. It will happen in successive rooms to wipe out as much health as possible and use up death defiances.
- hades thrust goes through zag's shield bull rush.
wraith imp
Oh? I didn't know that.
Will do.
Also, athena is still offering death defiances when I have all 3 original death defiances.
I recall someone telling me that got corrected. Nope. Happened this run.
I reported it to SGG.
fallow stream
That's because that boon has more to it than just death defiances
wraith imp
I know but it's a dumb boon
fallow stream
If you run SD then it's not a dumb boon
wraith imp
They key point of the boon is the death defiance. The extra 10% isn't gonna matter much in the long run.
one hades spin attack without boiling blood does more damage than the health regenerated from the 10% (and i'm assuming health hit points greater than 300)
fallow stream
Then don't go for Athena boons if you already have what you need from her and you're full of DD
Besides, you get 3 choices, it's not like you're forced to take it
wraith imp
It's pretty terrible when it shows up next to her trap damage negation boon (when I'm pretty good about avoiding trap damage) and her cast (which I dislike a lot).
fallow stream
It sounds like you don't like Athena boons... Lol
And sure footing is great for HS
No matter how good you are at avoiding traps
wraith imp
...my first victory run ever was with athena on sword (which got nerfed). this is like 4-5 updates ago.
But over time, i've come to despise her. he dash is still great though.
fallow stream
That's funny... I dislike her dash immensely now
The timing on it is such that you have to iframe the same way as you do without it, so I find it completely useless except for deflecting ranged attacks now
wraith imp
i'm a melee player who zigzags a lot so i find her dash to be very useful for negating incoming damage from projectiles.
and her dash is quite useful for negating hades' spin attacks and projectiles
but hades' spin attack is still infuriatingly inconsistent.
i wonder if sgg just said "yeah, it's broken but f it...we're not fixing it."
i've seen players stand in the path of the wide semi-circle and take no damage and then i've seen players get hit by streaks when just barely touched after using multi-dash to escape its path
it's just inconsistent
without that attack, hades ain't all that hard to beat
fallow stream
Her dash does absolutely nothing to defend against Hades spin.
If you're avoiding it, it's because you've timed the dash correctly, not because you've deflected it
wraith imp
The word "deflected" shows up many times after I've used her dash to escape hades spin attack.
/shrug
fallow stream
Correct, but you can do the exact same thing without it
This is what I'm trying to tell you
wraith imp
I can't. (Maybe I don't have the talent.)
I've tried with many other dashes.
Her dash is the only one that seems to generate "deflected" after dash against hades
fallow stream
I actually get hit more with divine dash than without. I'm convinced it removes iframes, despite the dev team saying they have done nothing to dash iframes.
It may be an inadvertent side effect of something else they've changed, but divine dash is not what it used to be, imo
wraith imp
"but divine dash is not what it used to be"
could be
I found it to be way less helpful in this run, i died at phase 1 hades on 24 heat
mossy zinc
I recall someone telling me that got corrected.
That only applies to Kisses of Styx. They won't show up in Wells of Charon if you have full DDs.
fallow stream
For deflecting ranged, absolutely awesome.
Against melee... Meh
mossy zinc
and her dash is quite useful for negating hades' spin attacks
It doesn't do that, though.
Hades's spin attack is undeflectable.
wraith imp
¯_(ツ)_/¯
fallow stream
Pretty sure I said that... 🤣
mossy zinc
I'm just typing as I'm catching up lol.
wraith imp
so then what is generating the words "deflected" after I dash?
mossy zinc
I think you could deflect it in an older version. You can't deflect it now.
wraith imp
i'm on the newest version
just played
died at phase 1 hades on 24 heat using chaos shield despite having 380/380 health and 1 death defiance (skelly)
mossy zinc
Well, I don't know what you deflected there, but it wasn't the spin attack.
wraith imp
i don't have a video recording set-up. otherwise, i would go back and watch what I did.
sharp cosmos
so then what is generating the words "deflected" after I dash?
@wraith imp as far as I can tell, every time I had athena dash and used it in the fight against hades, you'd hear sounds like you were deflecting something, but nothing was there... even after Hades dies, you still get that effect... it's like some sort of invisible objects that you pass through with your dash... I think it's some sort of minor bug in that place specifically...
mossy zinc
Divine Dash is still the same, anyway, and it definitely doesn't remove i-frames.
fallow stream
I'm not saying its not useful. You can deflect his skulls, and stuff from his summons, and avoid pot damage.
mossy zinc
You can also i-frame the spin attack very consistently.
fallow stream
But I honestly find mistral dash to do so much more than divine dash now
wraith imp
I'll get around to doing another run with athena to see what's up.
About 6-8 months ago, I recall always taking her dash because it was so clutch for me against hades.
Now?
Who knows. I wish SGG would just come out and say what changes (if any) were made.
"mistral dash"?
fallow stream
Yes, in nighty night it was amazing
mossy zinc
Divine Dash is still the same.
fallow stream
You could dash through anything, and it was very lenient
wraith imp
"Divine Dash is still the same"
Maybe but it sure doesn't feel like it.
Likewise, I know Amir said enemies weren't made faster but the enemies sure as heck feel a lot faster on FO2
(I asked him.)
fallow stream
Not when it comes to dash striking. It basically turns off when dash striking, at least with fists
mossy zinc
It doesn't "turn off".
fallow stream
And it wasn't always like that
Show me any instance where you've deflected anything with a fist dash strike
Any.
wraith imp
But I know one thing beyond the shadow of a doubt:
IF i have high health, I can expect elyisum to be overrun with the annoying ass chariots.
fallow stream
I think he means Elysium
wraith imp
At this point, "bad RNG" isn't a sufficient explanation
Anytime I cross 300 health in styx, I'm getting chariots room after after room. It's even happened at 3 rooms in a row
If I have 350+ health, it gets ridiculous. chariots with blue stones.
mossy zinc
I think there is a lot of blaming the game for bad RNG and human error going on right now.
wraith imp
LIke...I'm a stats guy in my profession, so I'm fully aware of selective memory and all that jazz
But this goes beyond bad RNG. As soon as I cross 350 health, I know what lies ahead.
(And I realize that most players don't have 350 health. I tend to prioritize health sometimes too much.)
I'm also playing at 60% jury summons but come on...
tidal flame
Anecdotes are not data
wraith imp
Yes, I know
Anecdotes are data points but not complete data; selection bias and sample size comes into play
mossy zinc
Chambers are more difficult the deeper you go, you have more HP the deeper you go. Correlation does not imply casuation.
tidal flame
Also 60% JS
sharp cosmos
I mean... chariots aren't generally that bad if you ask me... even if they have the blue stone benefit. just make them run into a wall. additional dashes from hermes, or movement speed helps
P.S.: They are bad if you dont have a lot of room to move around
P.P.S: No wait, you meant big chariots, sorry...
tidal flame
My assumption is that each unit are given a spawn weight
wraith imp
@sharp cosmos how about when it's the big armored chariots with small armored chariots plus blue stones?
that combo is lethal
tidal flame
I wouldn't be surprised if JS allows bigger spawn points and somehow disproportionately favor big spawn unit such as chariot
sharp cosmos
that combo is lethal
@wraith imp fair enough... I got that combo sometimes too... but for situations like these, there are counters (even if it's boons that you might not like)... such as dyonisus hangover
tidal flame
I don't have problems with most chariots tbh, except for speedy chariots FO2
Almost impossible to dodge
tidal flame
Asterius is no where near as fast lol
wraith imp
what's a good dash for melee? i used to love athena's divine dash...now not so much. that friendship is over.
fallow stream
Mistral
wraith imp
what is mistral?
i'm leaning toward poseidon provided i get razor shoals
fallow stream
Dude... I hated it too, then I saw the light
wraith imp
What changed?
tidal flame
I aim for Hunter Dash on sword and spear
wraith imp
see...i don't like artemis dash either? what do you like about it?
tidal flame
Athena on fists and shield
wraith imp
/i'm probably missing something
fallow stream
It does damage
It slows down enemies so you actually get more frames to avoid stuff
It gives you more time to counter attack openings
That's why Demeter dash is so good
daring hedge
dash-strikes are typically a valuable tool at high heat, and hunter dash just boosts it by a significant amount
tidal flame
Hunter Dash = at least 50% attack streroid, and usually 75%+
daring hedge
it's just straightforwardly good, a lot of the time
wraith imp
@fallow stream i don't like that it fires forward. i like things like poseidon, dio, athena, ares, and zeus on dash because those feel like 360 degree coverage
tidal flame
Sword and Hades spear benefit a lot for that
Especially with combos like Double Edge or Serrated Point
sharp cosmos
my problem with demeter dash is that either it's hard to hit with it, or that you have to expose yourself to attacks more in order to be able to hit it
fallow stream
Good range
wraith imp
dash-strikes are typically a valuable tool at high heat, and hunter dash just boosts it by a significant amount
@daring hedge i don't understand dash strike...which could explain why i struggle with every non-shield, non-rail weapon on high heat
sharp cosmos
tho I guess it could work if youre dash striking with athena attack boon
tidal flame
Just spam it.
wraith imp
i feel like my lack of understanding about dash strike is limiting my success/enjoyment of the game...
mossy zinc
And with dashes in general.
Deflect doesn't make you invincible. You still gotta know what you're doing.
daring hedge
you will definitely want to get used to frequent dash-strike usage, yeah
tidal flame
Yeah I abuse Dash Strikes
wraith imp
I've beaten 42 heat on shield, 40 on rail, 41 on excalibur. Everything else? I'm terrible at.
Like...bow...can't beat 16 heat
mossy zinc
Most important thing, in my opinion, about Dash-Strikes is that they cancel i-frames from your dashes.
wraith imp
Spear? 11
daring hedge
a lot of high heat attack rotations or patterns weave it in very frequently
wraith imp
Fist? 15
fallow stream
Deflect doesn't make you invincible. You still gotta know what you're doing.
But this is exactly my point. If you have to iframe divine dash to deflect, then what use is it, really. Might as well take a different dash
daring hedge
ah, not being very familiar with dash-strikes and not gelling with bow. this is poetic (i promise i'm not trying to come across as mean here, it's just funny)
wraith imp
yeah...
tidal flame
Divine Dash gives you significantly more iframes, no?
mossy zinc
It solves bullet hells, and Deflect still helps against a lot of melee attacks.
fallow stream
No
wraith imp
one of the mods here (heartful peach) told me that dash strike was key for using bow effectively.
fallow stream
I've already said it is good for deflecting ranged
daring hedge
yeah, peach is definitely correct
fallow stream
It is essentially useless vs melee
daring hedge
dash-strikes are an essential tool for high level bow play. you just pretty much don't do standing charges
ever
tidal flame
Yup even when waiting for enemy to spawn
I time my dash strikes, instead of normal strikes
Because Hunter Dash
And muscle memory
daring hedge
yeah, hunter dash singlehandedly shores up bow dash-strike's minor weakness of being a little weaker than regular charged shots
power or otherwise
wraith imp
hmmm...will need to try artemis on dash strikes then
tidal flame
Imagine they give bow a dash strike hammer 
Like Double Edge or Serrated Point
Amir please?
mossy zinc
@tidal flame Deflected attacks can't hit you, but if the attack already hits you when you would deflect, it's too late, and you get smacked. That's why you shouldn't stand right in front of a Bloodless trying to Deflect their attack or right in front of Hades's thrust etc.
fallow stream
This statement makes no logical sense
mossy zinc
What makes no "logical sense"?
Because you've asked if it gives you more i-frames. It doesn't.
fallow stream
If the attack already hits you when you would deflect? What does that even mean
tidal flame
I mean more I frames to the tail end of your dash?
fallow stream
Nope
mossy zinc
It means the attack is active and overlaps with your hurtbox on the same frame that your deflect is active and overlaps with their hitbox. Their attack wins.
fallow stream
Which is exactly why I say divine dash is useless vs melee
We are saying the same thing
tidal flame
I mean more like you can divine dash into a group of Numbskulls
mossy zinc
¯_(ツ)_/¯
tidal flame
And your tail end i frames will save you
fallow stream
You can also dash into a group of numbskulls and not get hit
tidal flame
That's what I mean when I say you have mkre i frames
fallow stream
Try divine dashing into a lout and see what happens
tidal flame
You can also dash into a group of numbskulls and not get hit
But you can?
fallow stream
You will get hit. Every. Time.
tidal flame
I don't think we are talking about the same scenario
Divine Dash literally gives you more protection, sure, not technically I frames
But they function the same
sharp cosmos
You will get hit. Every. Time.
@fallow stream well, if you time it well, you might not get hit, but that's hard to pull off... also it makes sense, cuz it's a charging enemy, not a charging projectile, so you can't technically deflect the lout
fallow stream
If you deflect with divine dash, you have successfully iframed an attack to avoid it anyway.
Therefore it is useless vs melee.
It is not useless vs ranged
sharp cosmos
If you deflect with divine dash, you have successfully iframed an attack to avoid it anyway.
Therefore it is useless vs melee.
@fallow stream I mean... if the dash just easily protected you from everything, then that sounds like it would get boring fast anyway
tidal flame
That's not what i am saying lmao
fallow stream
My point stands @sharp cosmos
tidal flame
All I said was that Divine Dash gives you more I frames at the tail end of the dasb
wraith imp
i'm now completely confused about what divine dash does and doesn't do
tidal flame
Idk why you are so hellbent on correcting me xD
Divine Dash does what it does
Pick it or not is up to personal preference
I love it on fists and shield, but that's about it
wraith imp
does it help negate damage from hades spin attack? that's what i need an answer for
fallow stream
I love it when I use merciful end. That's it.
daring hedge
it's great for hades aspect spin safety insurance
fallow stream
No... He's asking about Dad's spin
daring hedge
i'm not talking towards him
tidal flame
I think it does
daring hedge
i'm talking in terms of divine dash usefulness my dude
tidal flame
At least per my gameplay
wraith imp
yeah, i relied a lot on divine dash against hades in previous updates
tidal flame
Wtf are we even debating the usefulness of Divine Dash xD
It's the OG Crutch for a reason
Some people don't like it? Big whoop
wraith imp
i'm just curious about its limitations, i'm just watching you all debate/discuss
daring hedge
there's a reason it's so present in so many high heat clears lmao
tidal flame
Yeah because there is no point in arguing. Every one is pursuing their own points rn
daring hedge
i don't even understand what's going on here, entirely. like, even going off the premise of divine dash being useful for dealing with projectile-heavy rooms, yes, it's very very good for high heat still
it always has been good for high heat
tidal flame
Whatev, I F10ed a room of Speedsters Chariots
fallow stream
Lol
tidal flame
Hopefully they will consider it 
daring hedge
fighting the good fight, thank you
one day maybe speeder chariots will no longer exist. i hope for this bright future
tidal flame
Me too
sharp cosmos
Divine dash is good against projectiles, but you still have to be careful when facing melee opponents... I'm ok with that
mossy zinc
If you deflect with divine dash, you have successfully iframed an attack to avoid it anyway.
Deflect box from Divine Dash is definitely wider than your Dash-Strike hurtbox. Some enemies spawn a melee hitbox right on top of you, but not all. Other melee attacks like Asterius's swings can be very easily deflected because the hitbox is moving towards you and connects with your deflect box first, and then the attack can no langer harm you.
That's why Asterius is so free to Deflect.
daring hedge
definitely true. the generous deflect box is especially noticeable with simple witch projectiles
tidal flame
Imagine playing Hades on an Intel Pentium D chip so you can do it frame by frame
mossy zinc
I think they adjusted his ground pound attack in EM3, too. I used to always get hit by the shockwave after deflecting the ground pound, but that's never happened in the Blood Price version. The shockwave never hits me if I deflect the ground pound.
daring hedge
i do think that is the best way to describe divine dash's melee utility. deflecting an early frame of an enemy's attack is typically pretty easy and just happens as you dash around, which then nullifies the entire remainder of that attack
if you're making use of i-frames alone, you can dash through the attack briefly, but still feasibly land back in it, because it's still able to hurt you
acoustic hare
tfw the only Boon you got in Tartarus is the Aphrodite Special.
And you run Charged Skewer.
And you have UC pact
fallow stream
I'm going to post a video to prove my point.
mossy zinc
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sharp cosmos
I'm going to post a video to prove my point.
@fallow stream can you put the link here too when it's uploaded, please?
I'm asking cuz I don't know your youtube channel
fallow stream
I will.
fallow stream
This is what I'm talking about. If I make this dash with Divine dash, the only difference is I'll see the words "deflect" making me think it's doing something when it is not.
The timing is exactly the same for deflecting melee as it is for iframes.
It probably wouldn't even deflect the beam from that brimstone, as I was late dashing in to begin with
daring hedge
brimstone/snakestone beams cannot be deflected, regardless, by the way
mossy zinc
You can't deflect beams to begin with. Wretched Thugs basically spawn their hitbox right on top of you, yeah.
acoustic hare
@acoustic hare RIP special
Nevermind, managed to get Epic Artemis Special
mossy zinc
Or right in front of themselves, anyway.
One frame there is no hitbox, the next there is a big chunky hitbox right in front of them.
It might not be precisely how it works, but for all effects and purposes it is.
forest vortex
@acoustic hare Have you been able to beat Hades on 32 Heat with Guan Yu yet?
acoustic hare
Nope, still trying.
mossy zinc
You could also, like @daring hedge said, dash directly on top of that hitbox with Divine Dash, Deflect the attack while i-framing it, and not take any damage from it after your dash because the hitbox has been negated.
forest vortex
Well I managed to do just that yesterday.
fallow stream
I'm glad you brought that up @mossy zinc
forest vortex
And it was pretty clutch
Lost all my DDs and was brought down to 1hp by Meg
Somehow I still managed to win
forest vortex
Meg was brutal to me man
I find fighting her harder than other bosses with Guan Yu
tidal flame
@fallow stream also let's not forget that with Divine Dash you can dash into both thugs, like Nyaa and Tail said, and dash strike back for +50% damage backstab
With Mistral you probably will get hit by the 2nd thug
So there is utility int that, too
forest vortex
Exposed is my favorite Curse now
daring hedge
it also freely eliminates DC hearts with close-range melee playstyles, and can deflect melee damage back to hades on certain attacks
exposed is great. it was extremely handy in my 41 hades aspect clear
mostly for priv status, but the backstab is just really nice too
mossy zinc
Deflect is honestly worth taking for Asterius and Hades alone already. You can deflect all of Asterius's attacks except the spin2win and all of Hades's attacks except the spin2win.
forest vortex
spin2win2strong
mossy zinc
Also, deflecting bombs in Asphodel is 👌🏽.
fallow stream
No one is debating how useful it is for projectiles
sharp cosmos
Cold Fusion
@tidal flame name is good, but it's not very self explanatory. I can't see the relation between the name and the effect of the duo boon
tidal flame
Bow main and Arte fan btw
fallow stream
And you can't really dash into wretched thugs with divine dash. Their attack is so slow that you get hit after the dash completes. You have to iframe through them with DD just like anything else
tidal flame
@sharp cosmos fair enough, i head canon it as fusion is something that sticks
And jolted is now "sticky"
But i see what you mean
daring hedge
i mean, wretched thugs are so simple in their behavior that it's not like anyone is suggesting that divine dash is invaluable in that case specifically
forest vortex
Something I find risky but has been extremely useful to me has been Ruthless Reflex + Greater Reflex
tidal flame
You have to iframe through them with DD just like anything else
We can agree to disagree
And the example goes beyond thugs
Numskulls groups
forest vortex
The Hermes Boon that gives extra dashes
daring hedge
yep. ruthless is great but being reliant on greater reflex from hermes at higher heat is too much of a risk sometimes
daring hedge
that's why i mostly run it at around 20 or below
fallow stream
You can dash safely through them with any dash
tidal flame
Nope
You can get tagged by numskulls mid dash
That is why I mentioned tail end i frames
forest vortex
But if you manage to find it then it's a run winner by itself
fallow stream
Ok, my next room is full of numbskulls. Let's test that theory
forest vortex
I used it in both of my 32 Heat clear
daring hedge
yes, the ruthless buff is super powerful
tidal flame
Is it 25% damage or dodge?
forest vortex
both I think
daring hedge
just inconsistent with approval process potentially making getting greater reflex even harder
both
and 50% i thought
daring hedge
really fun though
mossy zinc
+50% damage and dodge, yes.
tidal flame
Have you ever wondered what if damage steroids stack multiplicatively instead of additively
I'll hit every Chaos Gates possible if that's the case
And Hunter Dash every run
daring hedge
isn't privileged status multiplicative?
mossy zinc
You went from using initalisms that nobody uses for everything to now using words like "steroids" that nobody else uses. 
Privileged Status is additive.
daring hedge
okay, someone was referring to it as multiplicative semi recently and wasn't sure so i figured i'd ask
forest vortex
@tidal flame I used to think that Chaos Boons were multiplicative
daring hedge
thanks
forest vortex
And was super disappointed when I found out they don't
fallow stream
I mean... I can even iframe entire groupings of ranged attacks
tidal flame
I mean it's not i framing if none of the attacks hits
daring hedge
none of us were even claiming that you couldn't i-frame through projectiles, anyways
tidal flame
That's fair but let's not more the goal post
daring hedge
also, yeah, divine dash inherently allows for more aggression because the deflect box covers you for safe dash-strikes
mossy zinc
It's not moving the goal posts at all.
tidal flame
My point is that you can tagged mid dash by meelee attacks
mossy zinc
You can't get hit mid-dash during i-frames.
tidal flame
Which can absolutely happen
He is trying to show that it can't happen
Which makes Divine Dash Deflect frames useless
fallow stream
Divine dash offers zero protection against melee during dash strikes @daring hedge
Zero. At least with fists
tidal flame
Ugh it functions the same. Fine I'll edit
fallow stream
It'll deflect ranged all day, sure
daring hedge
we just went over how divine dash deflection makes it so the remainder of an attack animation can't hurt you, though
i.e. asterius swings
tidal flame
Well now you are moving the goal post xD
fallow stream
No, I'm responding to the "safe dash strikes" comment
tidal flame
You went from Divine Dash offers no protection against meelee to Divine Dash offers no protection against meelee while Dash Striking
sharp cosmos
But not when dash striking
@fallow stream I mean... it's not gonna deflect attacks when your attack from the dash strike goes off, you need divine strike for that
fallow stream
There's is no such thing as a safe dash strike with divine dash vs melee
sharp cosmos
but it will deflect it if you're attacked before your attack from dash strike goes off
sharp cosmos
hmm
fallow stream
Only ranged
daring hedge
tidal flame
No, the dash will deflect nothing even before the strike
You can deflect meelee attacks, are you saying that's not possible?
sharp cosmos
i'll keep that in mind too, but idk how to make gifs like you did
tidal flame
What graphics card do you have?
tidal flame
Or rather if you have one xD
fallow stream
So it looks bad
sharp cosmos
SD?
fallow stream
Standard def
tidal flame
There is a program called Avidemux that lets you trim video very quickly, no re rendering required.
fallow stream
It's a Radeon 560X, Game runs at 60fps steady
Though it doesn't look it from the video
tidal flame
That's how I make my streamable.
sharp cosmos
what program do you use to make the video tho?
fallow stream
Just the windows Xbox overlay
tidal flame
OBS Studio for me.
daring hedge
i just use obs
mossy zinc
The Deflect box from Divine Dash will not cover the entirety of your punch when doing a Dash-Strike. It will still cover your flanks and your back just fine to deflect both melee attacks and projectiles from those directions.
fallow stream
Again, I'm not debating the effectiveness vs projectiles
mossy zinc
If it didn't cover you, you wouldn't be deflecting projectiles at all.
It's not like they went out of their way to give you a wider deflect box for projectiles than for melee attacks.
daring hedge
It will still cover your flanks and your back just fine to deflect both melee attacks and projectiles from those directions.
fallow stream
And I say again. Show me.
mossy zinc
You're the one making the claim that the deflect box is wider for projectiles than for melee in the first place. That's the implication of what you're saying.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
fallow stream
I'm not saying narrower. I'm saying it's non existent for melee on dash strikes
mossy zinc
Okay then.
tidal flame
I want to get some 🍿 and watch this play out. But this show is getting stale tbh.
mossy zinc
Still.
fallow stream
I've shown why I think divine dash isn't that great. Everyone else is just talking
acoustic hare
Regarding the Mistral Dash, it feels too inconsistent to me. Maybe the hitbox on it is unaligned to the gust model or something.
fallow stream
You always ask for data. I have given data
mossy zinc
You have posted a gif that proved nothing.
tidal flame
Well you can't ask for vid and give people 5 mins to do so lmao
acoustic hare
I guess I could use it more if it was a bit wider.
daring hedge
i feel like the simple prevalence of it in high heat runs new and old is enough to show that it is indeed great, though
people don't run with it for absolutely no reason
tidal flame
Many already said they will keep that in mind xD
mossy zinc
I'm sorry, but i-framing a lot of things with any dash does not prove that Divine Dash cannot Deflect melee attacks at all when Dash-Striking.
fallow stream
There are two different topics on divine dash here.
One is my response to it giving more safety on dash strikes.
The other is my original comment on the deflect box not offering much more than iframes already do
When dashing normally
tidal flame
So, to show counterp example
For normal dash: if I get a deflect on meelee attack, then Divine Dash offers more protection
For dash strike, same thing
mossy zinc
Well, I've never argued that Divine Dash offers much more protection to regular dashes. It only makes a difference in some niche cases. So yeah, point proven.
tidal flame
Ok so one non divine dash getting tagged mid dash
mossy zinc
You do miss out on Deflect damage, though.
tidal flame
And one divine dash deflecting a meelee attack
And we good, yes?
That would show Divine Dash offers more protection against meelee?
fallow stream
I would be ecstatic if someone can show me a deflection against melee on a dash strike
For the record
daring hedge
this is also being argued in a relative vacuum. during a practical, high heat run, there are plenty of situations where you may i-frame through a melee attack, but want a wide deflect box of protection from incoming FO2 projectiles that may otherwise directly hit if you're finishing up a dash without deflect. divine dash is just useful and practical for dealing with hazards and attacks
which is obviously invaluable at high heat
tidal flame
Ok, but that would satisfy the argument, right?
I don't want no one to move the goal post on me
And I'll admit I'm wrong if I can't do it.
mossy zinc
You're the only talking about moving goalposts lol.
fallow stream
On that I agree @daring hedge
tidal flame
Well we went from normal dash to dash strike
mossy zinc
You'll need to show a Deflect with Divine Dash of a melee attack during a Dash-Strike that would have otherwise hit you.
tidal flame
I just want to be clear
fallow stream
It is invaluable for deflecting ranged when dashing into the fray
tidal flame
Yeah but I'm taking meelee, still
daring hedge
which is an incredibly common occurrence during high heat, so i'm not sure why it's being argued that divine dash isn't great, somehow
daring hedge
even that utility alone would be enough to prove that it's worthwhile lol
tidal flame
Yeah, but that point is not contentious
Manthro says it's useless against meelee
And I tentatively disagree
daring hedge
well, yes, i'm not arguing against that, but it hardly matters. regardless of performance versus melee, its utility against projectiles is enough to make it a worthwhile dash boon choice
hence, a great boon
which it pretty much just is
tidal flame
We agree, but the degree of ??? in the statement is so wild I want to show that even against meelee, it's still safer than normal dash.
tidal flame
Now idk if I'm 100% right, but I'll try.
fallow stream
This is the best debate in a while 🤣
fallow stream
Ok @daring hedge I concede that overall, it has much utility on high heat for the reasons you mentioned recently
mossy zinc
Timestamped. https://youtu.be/5yXLgdzurFg?t=1747
fallow stream
Perhaps my statement that "it isn't that good" was too broad
wraith imp
aspect of rama's attack got buffed
honest kernel
😲
wraith imp
dash strike used to do 60, now does 75
and perfect timed full charge attack used to 150, now it does 187
honest kernel
wish they would have done that before I got burned out on rama
wraith imp
i was just messing around in the courtyard against skelly and noticed
honest kernel
but thats cool
daring hedge
the power shot buff was pretty recent, last patch update
wraith imp
i'm still not sure how the celestial sharanga thing works
daring hedge
not sure about the dash-strike or what you're speaking relative to, if you played during beta
wraith imp
like, i read the description but i often don't see the damage happening against enemies in combat
honest kernel
I don't think it does dmg?
wraith imp
but enemies die quickly so it must be happening in the background
honest kernel
is it supposed to?
wraith imp
isn't it?
daring hedge
it adds a percentage of the raw attack damage
daring hedge
or rather, sorry, i'm tired, what i mean is
if you apply the mark, enemies will take a percentage of the raw attack damage done to any enemy
daring hedge
and it will show as its own number
honest kernel
wait I thought we are talking about the hammer upgrade
wraith imp
but in combat (out in elysium for instance) the green number doesn't happen frequently (like it does against skelly)
daring hedge
it's a bluish gradient in color, iirc
wraith imp
yeah, i don't get that enough so i was wondering if i was doing it incorrectly
daring hedge
as long as you're marking enemies frequently enough, it should be working fine. if something doesn't seem right, definitely f10 just in case
wraith imp
as i understand, rama is best used by spamming special to hit multiple enemies (to chain them under sharanga) and then hit other enemies. am i wrong?
honest kernel
the way it works is just: once an enemy is marked they will recieve a percentage of the attack damage you inflict on anything even themselves
daring hedge
they definitely encourage that, even if you're not quite sure if it's a bug or not
they want to know when things might not seem like they're working, even from just a simple player perspective
honest kernel
yeah thats how it works
wraith imp
so is my strategy for rama correct?
honest kernel
but it works the best if you mark a group and then shoot at the marked group
wraith imp
ok, got it.
honest kernel
because that way the dmg skyrockets
daring hedge
yeah, you can attack marked enemies directly and they will still take the extra shared damage too
like with skelly
etc.
honest kernel
and attack is piercing so it will hit multiple enemies in a group
wraith imp
see...i was chaining one group and then going after a different enemy
i thought i was maximizing damage there
honest kernel
yeah thats usually not that effective in my experience
wraith imp
so it seems i should be chaining one group of enemies and then attacking that same group of enemies. got it
honest kernel
but I also run DC2 so I have to mark everyone first per default
daring hedge
yeah, splitting your attention isn't really going to do you many favors in terms of damage output
wraith imp
got it. thank you!
honest kernel
I can grab a video of me doing 40 heat rama up till hades if u wanna see it
(I never beat hades)
wraith imp
@honest kernel sure, absolutely
tag me with the link or send a DM.
fallow stream
Nice vid @mossy zinc
The deflections on the shockwaves are pretty indisputable
wraith imp
Yep. I'll go to sleep in the next hour. I'll watch it after I wake up.
honest kernel
aight 👌
mossy zinc
I never beat hades
Failing at 40+ and complaining is the more popular thing to do, anyway.
At least that's all that @tidal flame ever does. So it's probably true.
honest kernel
mossy zinc
honest kernel
as long as I am the only person that provides footage of close to beating the game on 40+ with rama I take pride in it
wraith imp
i think horheristo (sp?) beat hades on 48 heat as a joke challenge against wriste
or am i mixing that up?
i know haelian beat 47 heat with one of the bows
wraith imp
iirc, wriste beat 48 heat using 2 weapons (the 150 manual gun on rail and excalibur)
mossy zinc
Excalibur was 46 Heat. It's in the pinned spreadsheet.
wraith imp
ah, i see....did not know there was a pinned spreadsheet. good to know.
i watched those streams. should've figured there was some kind of record-keeping going on...
unfortunately, i don't have a recording set-up so i can't add my runs to the list.
wraith imp
with zeus?
honest kernel
yeah
wraith imp
i missed out on that so i don't understand what changed.
mossy zinc
- Heart-Seeking Bow (Rama Aspect): slightly reduced charge time (it is faster); increased Power Shot damage; reduced fire speed and autolock angle of Volley special
honest kernel
it used to fire at very fast rate basicially
and now special is a lot slower
it's still a darn great run it's just that the weapon plays out differently now
mossy zinc
It was an LMG with Swift Flourish.
Or maybe that was only in the first couple days of the beta. I only used it for a few runs on day 1 of the beta.
honest kernel
yeah I never played the beta so I don't really know
mossy zinc
I know they made some changes to it very fast then lol.
honest kernel
but from what I'm seeing it looks way different from when I played zeus+rama recently
the dmg output now is sad
wraith imp
I'm here. (Brushing my teeth before I head to bed.)
Will watch when I wake up. I want to see if I can pick up some pointers.
honest kernel
👍
fallow stream
I had the pleasure of using rama with Aphrodite on special with her legendary before it was nerfed
The entire run was basically hold down Y and wait for the room to die. Bosses included
mossy zinc
@honest kernel I've watched your Hades fight. I'd recommend not running away so much in the second phase when he's pursuing you. He'll keep pursuing you until he reaches a minimum distance from you, anyway, so just move to a favorable position and let him come to you. Then i-frame, and smack him when he recovers from his attack.
With Dionysus' Aid, I would also try to always have 1 Lesser Call for emergency i-frames and actively avoid getting a Greater Call because 5 stacks of his Lesser Call 4 times will do more damage than getting the full damage of a Greater Call—plus, you get to i-frame 4 times.
mossy zinc
I've been making a real effort to spread the word lately. 😅
In phase 1, I really like to use Dionysus' Aid to i-frame his attack when he comes out of invisibility.
It's an easy i-frame, and you get the full damage of the 5 stacks before he goes invisible again.
honest kernel
I'll play around w that next time
mossy zinc
The full damage of a Greater Call Dionysus' Aid is the same as 3 Lesser Calls + 1 tic of Hangover.
clever otter
i ended up going with a different pact setting for my 16 heat win because FO was really too harsh for me. i have no idea how ill do 32 though, it seems impossible
mossy zinc
Maybe just go up one at a time and get in practice with all the pacts.
At least until 20.
Maybe a bit beyond that.
It took me a whole lot of tries to clear 32 the first time.
Underworld Customs didn't leave you with a lot of boons there. 
I'm glad it worked out!
clever otter
i kinda like underworld customs, i could get rid of the ones i wanted to get rid of thanks to fated persuasion
mossy zinc
Yeah, Persuasion is so good!
clever otter
the ones i did have were powerful enough and i could have privileged status up so it worked out
i actually had aphrodite's keepsake up at the beginning from a previous attempt that i forgot to switch but i rolled with it, since i got an epic heartbreak strike, and im glad i did since i got divine dash later on without having to wait for asphodel
mossy zinc
Something I like to do on lower heats is take the Bone Hourglass in Elysium and just buy three stacks of 3 items from the Well. They'll last into the Temple of Styx!
Nice!
Eternal Rose is the best keepsake. 💗
Plus, you'll get to buy items from the Well before the Temple of Styx with extended duration if you buy before switching keepsakes.
So it's like you have two keepsake effects for the region almost.
bright crescent
yeah persuasion was how i did my 32 heat run
helped me reroll some core boons to purp for easier snowballing
acoustic hare
Wait, Dionysus' Aid gives you i-frames?
mossy zinc
All calls give you i-frames on activation.
acoustic hare
Huh.
Oh boy. Teleporting Swordsmen.
On FO2
One just teleported on top of me and did his 2-swing combo with no telegraphs.
AGAIN!
cyan stag
Omae wa mou shindeiru.
honest kernel
time to dash around in circles
worthy sandal
NANI
acoustic hare
Hehe, nothing personal kid.
acoustic hare
Noticed that I posted it in the wrong channel.
I'm not really sure if Massive Spin worth it on GY without Quick Spin. I think I'll go with Breaching Skewer instead. What would you pick in my situation?
I'm currently in Elysium with FO2 and BP2 pacts
mossy zinc
Breaching Skewer.
Some extra damage against those pesky elites and super elites.
@fading star what was the point of using Fidi on 46 Heat?
acoustic hare
Doesn't matter anymore. Died in the Giant Butterfly chamber yet again.
But thanks for the advice.
mossy zinc
What summon do you use?
acoustic hare
Battie
mossy zinc
Megaera will destroy its armor in one hit even with CP1. CP2 it will have just a little bit left.
acoustic hare
I get overwhelmed with elites it summons. They are the main reason I die there.
mossy zinc
That's why I recommend using a summon to kill it asap.
forest vortex
I think killing the Souls is better than focusing on the butterfly
I never had a problem with it even with FO2 and MM
Asterius on the other hand
Spin2win
acoustic hare
Totally other way around for me. His spin was the only thing that managed to get me the last time.
The butterfly that keeps interrupting my special windup and the Exalted, on the other hand. Eugh.
Every time regardless of Heat, when I go to the miniboss in Elysium I pray to myself "Please no butterflies."
honest kernel
I always prefer butterflies over cow
forest vortex
The amount of Souls spawning in the butterfly chamber fools you into thinking they're too much to handle but they're not
I can always kill all the Souls in time regardless of my weapon
fading star
@mossy zinc why do I use Fidi? I think Fidi is very good at helping with clearing chambers that are extra spicy. I've been saved numerous times due to her damage overtime and her stuns. Basically, she excels at chambers and certain mini-bosses (e.g. good at Sneak, dreadful at Doomstone) and she does good damage to bosses just not as burst. I find her decent to use for Fury Sisters and Theseus and only okay for Hydra
I might also be that I love Dusa too much 😊
If only my dream came true where SGG changed Bouldy's summon to have him slam down then roll around like some crazed wrecking pinball.
mossy zinc
lol
Thanks! I've barely used Fidi at all, so I was very intrigued when I saw that you use it.
fading star
There was one caveat to Fidi that blew my mind away
I was so impressed with SGG for going to such detail about it. However, it is a bit of a spoiler so... if people want to know I will DM them
mossy zinc
Sometimes on higher heat, I miss getting these kinds of builds so readily. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/730466573575520336/Hades_257.png?width=890&height=501
tidal flame
That build is all over the place lol
fading star
I hadn't thought of going with a non-Zeus god call using this, lol. Imagine the brokenness of having Athena's god call, yikes!
OMG, Poseidon's god call! I'm actually drooling
mossy zinc
You'll get way more out of Dionysus' Aid then Poseidon's Aid with Smoldering Air.
all over the place
@tidal flame what are you even talking about?
tidal flame
Doom Jolted Weak Hangover
tidal flame
Not saying it's bad, just that the damage comes from a diverse cast.
mossy zinc
Ah.
tidal flame
You have 4 status effects hence the "all over the place."
mossy zinc
I like the new Duo Boons allowing for so many more excellent combos.
I was hoping for Curse of Nausea, too, and Vengeful Mood because why not.
Oh, and Curse of Longing, naturally.
mossy zinc
Hmmm. Still having problems with TD2 in Elysium with the Zagreus Aspect of Varatha and only EM3.
I think Chain Skewer may have dropped my DPS.
Not getting backstabs reliably on return.
tidal flame
I save my companion charges and use them all in Elysium
mossy zinc
I don't have that issue with other aspects except Coronacht.
tired charm
light sedge
I got to Hades on 41 about 5 times with Hades, but died..
muted cosmos
I need a reliable build to try for every run just to make things more efficient. I'm only on like heat 6 so I'm sure y'all have something easy for me <3
hoary stratus
i personally really like fists with the aspect of demeter and anything that affects the uppercut
if you do it right you get like 1,000 damage with the giga cutter
tidal flame
Reliable? Pick Chaos Shield (max level), slap just about any special buff on it.
Done
You can farm materials easily up to 20-25 heat
muted cosmos
@tidal flame will try it! thanks bb!
daring hedge
would definitely recommend thunder flourish (zeus special) on it
muted cosmos
also yeah @hoary stratus i just got done with a run where i had "anything can crit" bonus, artemis special crit boon, the slam after uppercut hammer mod, and crit marks another enemy
it was fun
honest kernel
'Member when we were talking about how fast Inferno Bombers bomb drop attack would be on FO2 with Speeder Benefit?
hoary stratus
also yeah @hoary stratus i just got done with a run where i had "anything can crit" bonus, artemis special crit boon, the slam after uppercut hammer mod, and crit marks another enemy
@muted cosmos niiiice
honest kernel
Still Athena.
fading star
Wow! So after taking many hours to figure out the odd gameplay of the Phalanx Shot I can confirm that it + Poseidon Aspect Sword are legit strong. I just completed 42 heat like easy with it
forest vortex
I onced filled Asterius's health bar with it
honest kernel
It was 60% a long time ago, then nerfed to 30, then rebuffed to 40 with the repackage.
hoary stratus
gotcha
tidal flame
Artic Blast Hunter Dash Serrated Point Hades Spear is nasty
daring hedge
daring hedge
ok but you're not even gonna point out how sick that meg was
asterius running into it
holy hell
yes
obviously you knew exactly what would happen
tidal flame
of course
daring hedge
you're truly the summon genius
misty bough
which weapon were you using?
daring hedge
a
tidal flame
Yeah the radius buff is great
Quick spin is nice, but not needed
which makes runs way more consistent
Idk if I can wean off Serrated Point though
that's such a huge damage increase
daring hedge
it is a pretty addictive hammer, honestly
i'd also recommend trying explosive launcher with hades aspect. makes the mark damage buff for special way easier to take advantage of
honest kernel
Okay.
I know Lucifer's range was nerfed recently.
But there's no way this is as long even as base Rail's range.
autumn sable
we finally did it. 40 heat on all weapons.
finished with a Rama with triple+explosive
@tidal flame needs to make a montage of all his 500IQ summons
honest kernel
Does Bone Hourglass extend Touch of Styx Dark?
exotic ocean
no :(
honest kernel
Always great when the Dire Skullcrusher decides you don't get dash i-frames.
mossy zinc
My favorite is when you dash to avoid the Skullcrusher, and the Megagorgon teleports right in your face and shoots you, so you get hit by both.
tidal flame
Nothing personnel kid
exotic ocean
i hated fighting the power couple before trying out middle management
exotic ocean
i nearly died on my last run before i even knew what was happening
tidal flame
@autumn sable where is my 1080p T.T
exotic ocean
oh that sounds absolutely terrible @honest kernel
honest kernel
It was rough.
exotic ocean
are yr bones ok
honest kernel
They're really not.
autumn sable
@tidal flame I ain’t made of money frames
exotic ocean
:<
honest kernel
You want ~~
tidal flame
man I swear all these 40+ heat Furies fights always come down to one more hit
autumn sable
The Hard Labor life
hoary stratus
hey, I'm trying to finish a 16 heat run, any suggestions on what i should put on the pact of punishment?
tidal flame
Which weapon/aspect are you using?
Also do you gravitate toward a certain pact or actively avoid others?
mossy zinc
I always pick TD2 FO2 EM2-3 first.