h1-high-heat-strategies

[tidal flame]

How did you lose 3DDs before Hades?

And then losing non against him

Wut

[bright crescent]

just deflect every attack he has

[mossy zinc]

No, I lost 1 to him.

I think.

[tidal flame]

Then your health doesn't make sense

[mossy zinc]

Not sure how much extra healing Last Stand gives.

[tidal flame]

10%?

[mossy zinc]

12% at rare.

+12%.

[tidal flame]

Ok makes sense now

[mossy zinc]

So 62% instead of 50%. That's 133 HP.

[autumn sable]

Chaos Shield feels like its dps really falls off in Styx at higher heats

[honest kernel]

If that's based on that screenshot, I will say you had very little accentuating the lightning besides Privileged Status and Jolted, but that could also be 45 Heat life.

[autumn sable]

Pretty much exactly my thoughts

[honest kernel]

What Aspects do you feel scale best at 40+?

[autumn sable]

it's hard to say, melee in general scales the worst

I almost lean melee sword being the most difficult but I can't tell if I just need to put more time into it

Shield was to take a break from failed sword runs.

Lucifer, pre-patch, I felt could possibly scale the best since combined with Zeus it had amazing room clear (allowing for the combo of JS and CP with TD2).

and reasonable enough single-target that with a little help, bosses would be do-able

But obviously, the patch changed a few things so I'm not sure. Hestia might be really strong for higher heats.

[honest kernel]

That's what I remember being the popular option for 32 Heat when Aspects were new.

[autumn sable]

I think the problem with a lot of safer options like shield, bow, and Hestia is that they have a harder time dealing with some combo of JS, CP, or DC

Shield is probably something that can handle all three, it just needs some RNG luck

Which is a big ask

But I think everything above 45 is a big ask

Since UC, AP, RI are pretty much unavoidable to some degree

Yeah, I don't think much has changed with how shield scales

I certainly failed more attempts with shield compared to spear, fist, and rail. But I'm chalking that up more to the difference between 40 heat and 45 heat.

I think the more interesting thing I've learned is that between JS and BP, I think BP in a lot of scenarios is the bigger timesink. At least it's a swap of Pact options that I'm not more willing to make/try

[honest kernel]

Poppers and Bruisers, man.

[autumn sable]

Saviors can really eat up a lot of time pending weapon

[tidal flame]

Cry in no hammer bow

[autumn sable]

Poppers too

I need to do bow and sword, bow I think maybe has the highest potential

provided getting 2 hammers

I dunno, I'll have to mess around with them. My opinion is pretty limited on them, tbh

[edgy igloo]

I'm working on my 32 heat run. What are some recommendations on what to switch on? I generally stick to enemy buffs but that's been getting overwhelming

[autumn sable]

What weapon are you using?

[edgy igloo]

I've tried the rail most recently, but I generally do the best with the Chaos Sheild

[autumn sable]

And how comfortable are you with using DDs vs SDs?

I think there's a fair number of options that you can take with either option

and your adjustments kind of boil down to what you die to the most

FO, TD, EM, BP, MM, and UC are generally your biggest heatsinks

and you can build around those, you don't need all levels of each of the above either

you just have to find things that you're okay with to offset it

CF2 is generally an additional option I always take for high heats cause it ultimately affects my moment to moment gameplay the least

DC2 is negligible for certain weapons

LC4 works really well if you're comfortable with SD but you're reliant on Patty/Kiss of Styx late game and you'd have to be comfortable with boss fights

[edgy igloo]

Cool thanks, I'll keep that in mind

[autumn sable]

Otherwise it's all weapon and aspect specific, so I can't give a more concrete recommendation unless you give those things

[autumn sable]

Threw the 45 heat run in the place with the things. Nothing crazy. I think the only new thing I've been trying is to use Achilles and Patty to double hit both Theseus and Asterius.

[edgy igloo]

I think I'll probably more seriously get into it with Chaos aspect. Right now I've mostly been going with the weapon the game picks with the small darkness buff

I really appreciate its versatility, I think any god can fit with it quite well

[mossy zinc]

I'd definitely just pick the weapon you have the most fun with and just keep doing runs.

You'll notice yourself which pacts are working okay and which are hindering you the most.

So you can just adjust pacts as you go.

[edgy igloo]

Thanks, I'll keep trying some new setups

[mossy zinc]

@hallow stream you could just not pick AP2. You pick it just for that number to go up. You don't have to do that.

[hallow stream]

noted

[mossy zinc]

All those ideas for changing AP could basically go into new pacts while keeping AP as it is.

[hallow stream]

The post addresses the argument for actively removing/reducing AP.

[autumn sable]

New pacts don't exactly address the fact that if you're going to keep pushing heats, you're going to have to take AP eventually.

[mossy zinc]

Changing AP to only go up to AP1 is silly. You can just self-inforce that if you want while others can keep using AP2 if they want to.

[tidal flame]

I'm so torn on downvoting upvoting thr feedback

Because they are not spaced out as single ideas

[hallow stream]

I checked with a mod

[tidal flame]

I get formatting is hard for text that long

[hallow stream]

they said it was cool to post

and to be fair, they are sectioned by a number

[tidal flame]

But I can't vote rn. Some I agrees a lot, such as Chaos style boons

[autumn sable]

Ultimately, I think with the way devs read the feedback, it kind of doesn't matter if we can upvote or not.

[tidal flame]

But that's tied with others that I disagree

[hallow stream]

We've had talks about Approval Process a fair bit - I mainly just wanted them to be on paper and accessible

[tidal flame]

Although I am curious

What's the end goal of high heat clear?

As in what's the perfect game state in your opinion

[autumn sable]

Why do you do them?

[hallow stream]

mm...think of it as an unofficial leaderboard. Imagine any game with a leaderboard, and that's the move with high heat runs

no different - the same reason anyone plays on any leaderboard

hence why self-restrictions only get us so far

[tidal flame]

Is it to make 57 heat possible? Done consistently?

Or else?

[hallow stream]

we generally acknowledge that 57 heat isn't possible without aggressive routing

[mossy zinc]

It's just to push higher and see how high you can push it.

[hallow stream]

basically

the same reason why anyone does anything like this

[tidal flame]

If that's true

[hallow stream]

it's just a part of games

[mossy zinc]

The end goal is seeing where the end is if there is one, and pushing past it if it looks like there is one.

[tidal flame]

Then suggesting the devs to balance the game per high heat plays sounds a bit counterintuitive

You can't push it as a personal achievement

[hallow stream]

The post acknowledges and makes clear that this is a high-heat perspective

I'm not making prescriptions on how they handle high-heat

[tidal flame]

While simultaneously asking the devs to make it viable

It's to push it until it's no longer viable

[mossy zinc]

We're free to share our personal experiences just as anyone else.

[hallow stream]

again, the post addresses that

[tidal flame]

I'm not saying you can't

[hallow stream]

it's literally all in the post

[mossy zinc]

I can't relate to feedback like "please help god mod is hard" or something.

[hallow stream]

it's not a complaint based on difficulty

in a lot of ways it's the opposite

[mossy zinc]

I can write about stuff I struggle with or I would like to see on high heat.

No, I'm just explaining why your feedback is perfectly "viable" the way it is.

[hallow stream]

not sure what you mean by that

like, the feedback is good?

[tidal flame]

I am not attacking anyone's right to post feedbacks, or that any feedback is invalid

In fact at this point I am not even referring to the feedback

I just can't understand what's the end goal of all of this. Let me elaborate

[autumn sable]

I think the devs have shown that they're pretty holistic about the feedback, as long as it's there, they'll read and consider it.

[hallow stream]

the end goal isn't in the scope of the feedback

[autumn sable]

They've ignored plenty of things and implemented even more.

[hallow stream]

although nyaa put it fairly succinctly

[mossy zinc]

The end goal is that we have more fun with the game the way we experience it.

[tidal flame]

If high heat runs are really to see the limit of you yourself, then what condition would you consider yeah, this is my limit

The end goal is that we have more fun with the game the way we experience it.
Then that's fine.

[hallow stream]

well, it's not just my own limits

it's also the limits of the game

what determines where those limits are?

is it my own skill? RNG?

That question is the focus on the feedback on AP

I'm saying the limit is on RNG, in that it doesn't actually limit anything aside from how much time I have

again, it is all in the post

[mossy zinc]

I kind of take it as a challenge when the community concensus is that something isn't viable without really having pushed it to its limit.

[tidal flame]

I read the post

[hallow stream]

part of why I took the time to write it

[tidal flame]

in fact I read it twice now

but I am asking a question further than AP2

like what's the end goal of all of this. how about his, humor me. Let's say tomorrow the devs chang AP2 the way you wanted

[hallow stream]

@mossy zinc you're also talking to someone who has absolutely bucked the consensus on what's considered viable and not, so I'm in that mindset too

[tidal flame]

and the day after that they added another pact that increase the heat by 10 to a max of 67. said heat is extremely hard and rough

would you then accept that perhaps you don't need to take that 10 to max out on 50+

or would you write feedback on it again?

if the heat is also fun in someway

[hallow stream]

Let me think

So here's a good example of what you might be after

DC hard-locks certain weapons from certain heats, no argument

[tidal flame]

agreed

[hallow stream]

I'm not posting feedback on that, because I'm understanding that there's a limit. I'm not complaining about how it's too hard, or unfair, etc

So that's not the end game

The goal with AP specifically is that the difficulty it offers isn't properly cashed in on, in the context of high heat

in other words, it's poorly realized, in that particular context

It tests patience more than skill, which is an odd placement in the Pact

[tidal flame]

I also agree there. AP2 takes away options from players.

[hallow stream]

So I'm identifying what I think the actual goal of AP is (lowering the power ceiling of builds) and showing why a) it doesn't fulfill that role, and b) how it could be done better

that's the end goal

[tidal flame]

Wriste, I agree that AP2 can use some look at. That's not what I don't understand. In fact, I already wrote about that I love Haelian idea about Chaos style boons

[hallow stream]

then I'm not sure what the question is

[tidal flame]

My question is how slippery this slope is.

[hallow stream]

I just want to make a certain aspect of the game that isn't terribly fun or compelling more interesting, and more in line with its design

no slope

[autumn sable]

If you watch a lot of the high heat runs with AP2, the common thread is that successful run doesn't look very different from an AP0 run. What you don't see is the number of runs where AP2 just decided that the run was over.

[tidal flame]

I asked what's the end goal of high heat runs?

[hallow stream]

to see how high we can go, pretty much

[tidal flame]

And so far I got one answer from Nyaa, to see how far you can push

[hallow stream]

@autumn sable that's the gist of it

and yeah, the end goal is just to go as high as we can

[autumn sable]

I think pushing heat becomes more meaningful when every option requires you make meaning decisions with either strategy or gameplay

[hallow stream]

not terribly complicated

[tidal flame]

Now my caveat is this, if it's to see how far you can push, is it OK to balance the game specifically to make higher heat viavble

[autumn sable]

AP2 doesn't fit this mold compared to the rest of the pact options.

[mossy zinc]

A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.—Bruce Lee

[tidal flame]

Again, I agree with AP2 feedback because it applies at lower heat, too

[hallow stream]

I'm not terribly interested in arguing about a slippery slope

[tidal flame]

I am asking about balancing in general

specifically for high heat

[mossy zinc]

The devs can decide that.

[tidal flame]

and by high I mean 40+, just so we are on the same ground

[autumn sable]

sort of

[mossy zinc]

We just share our experiences with high heat.

[autumn sable]

I think there's still a fair amount of variability, even at 40 heat

[tidal flame]

ok then 47+, for sake of argument.

[hallow stream]

In terms of how should the game be balanced at high heat? It depends hugely on the goal of the game, which I can't speak to. Since this is a roguelike, it has achievement/difficulty-based goals practically built in, so in terms of balance, I'd want as many options to be as compelling to take as possible, both in isolation and in conjunction with as many others as possible

I'm aware it won't go upward infinitely - max heat is basically impossible - but I'd like for it to go as high as it dares

[autumn sable]

I think another way of putting it is that playing with AP2 feels like you are attempting to play with a a specific strategy and hoping that the game lines up with you. There's no meaningful decision-making in that. It's simply praying that the game aligns with your goals.

[hallow stream]

and if there's something that makes the climb unpleasant, or fails to reflect what I extrapolate to be its goal by design, I think it makes sense to criticize it

[mossy zinc]

You're really just asking why are we sharing feedback about 40+. And the answer is because that's what we play.

[tidal flame]

but I'd like for it to go as high as it dares
And you have no qualm making feedback on something if you find it unfun on high heat? Don't mean it to be a personal attack, I know it kinda sounds that way.

[hallow stream]

of course I have no qualm

not sure why I would

[mossy zinc]

Yeah, I don't care if only 10 people can relate with my feedback.

[tidal flame]

ok then that's what I am asking

[mossy zinc]

I mean I try to get more people to try high heat all the time.

[hallow stream]

well, for one thing, people obviously do enjoy at least watching high heat/difficulty runs

[tidal flame]

thanks your the answers

[hallow stream]

so even though people don't play it

they do watch it

I think that's worth considering

[mossy zinc]

I can only give feedback on how I actually experience the game.

[hallow stream]

but yes, what nyaa said - I can be aware that it only affects a certain group of people, and still in good conscience give feedback

I would be remiss to give feedback that HURTS other groups while only serving myself, but I don't aim to do that, and I don't think any of my suggestions have any of that

[mossy zinc]

They can take valuable things away from that, too.

E.g., if we can't deal with certain BP2 combos, or they affect our runs a lot worse than others, it's probably like that on low heats, too, but not as pronounced.

[tidal flame]

that's fair, and that answers my question.

[hallow stream]

word

[fallow stream]

Is it just me, or did they cap the activation rate on support fire?

[tidal flame]

not that I can agree with all of it, but at least now I get it.

[fallow stream]

Feels slower

[tidal flame]

If it wasn't on the changelog, I honestly doubt it.

[mossy zinc]

@fallow stream yeah, it definitely seemed like that.

[tidal flame]

I got support fire on spear though

so probably not the same as fists

[hallow stream]

there is a cap on how often support fire can proc, at least by my knowledge

this was probably mostly aimed at Lucifer

[fallow stream]

On Lucifer and fists it just feels like there are fewer support fires

[autumn sable]

Someone mined files during the techbeta that showed support fire has a cooldown but I don't think there's been any confirmation that it's in the final update.

[mossy zinc]

I don't think I saw as many arrows as I normally did with Malphon and Support Fire.

[hallow stream]

they've been slowly nerfing lucy for some time now

[fallow stream]

Lucy still good, but it is definitely reigned in

Just had a run

[mossy zinc]

Hurts my build a lot honestly.

[autumn sable]

Lucifer made 44 heat a joke, so it probably needed to be reigned in. Haven't tried the adjusted version out yet.

[fallow stream]

It does

But as @mossy zinc said, it definitely hurts fists. It noticeable, at least to the naked eye

[tidal flame]

also, how do you feel about records set in different patches?

[fallow stream]

It depends on the weapon aspect

[mossy zinc]

They're all separate in the spreadsheet.

[tidal flame]

balance and patches obviously change a lot of things

They're all separate in the spreadsheet.
I know

but that doesn't invalidate my question.

[autumn sable]

i mean, you basically just answered your own question

[mossy zinc]

Well, it's like a new season I suppose.

[hallow stream]

we feel they should be separated, if that's what you're asking

[autumn sable]

Unfortunately, I wasn't around pre-Nighty Night so I can't tell if there were any updates within a patch that greatly change performance.

But I generally try to make a mention or note if there is anything like that

I.E. Rama

[tidal flame]

I wonder if we can revert back to prior patches

[autumn sable]

and Lucifer

[tidal flame]

probably impossible now

but if Hades speedrunning is a thing in the future

[autumn sable]

I dunno, but if it's possible, I would hope it would show up in the corner

[tidal flame]

patches will be a conversation that comes up

[autumn sable]

But that's in every single speedrun community

and they're always divided into patches

with games where you can revert patches, those all end up falling into any%

[tidal flame]

I agree, but obviously some patches are more popular than others

[mossy zinc]

Hades speedruns are already a thing.

[hallow stream]

^

[autumn sable]

so that any% represents the fastest possible time with any patch/glitch/whatever

[tidal flame]

it's not as popular as others. i was thinking more akin to be popular enough to be on GDQ often or something.

[autumn sable]

As far as I understand, granted I've never been part of a speedrun community, the rules are decided on by their own communites

Are they not?

[tidal flame]

they usually are

[fallow stream]

I tried a heat 40 run without TD2 and it's... Unpleasant 🤣

[proper kestrel]

Okay, guys, i have an interesting trick for ya

Final boss name is not banned here, right?

[tidal flame]

nope

fire away

[autumn sable]

that's a spoiler

i've never seen the final boss

[fallow stream]

Lol

[tidal flame]

i've never seen the final boss
we know

[proper kestrel]

Alright, so, if you charm a minion summoned on the Hades, and he throws a skull in this minion, it counts as a Blood stone inside the enemy, that drops out from him!

You cant get 4/3 blood stones, but you can use all of them in quick succession

[autumn sable]

I would be more interested if that enemy took double damage

[proper kestrel]

also now i have an awful idea

you can stack up bloodstones forever on beowulf shield

[autumn sable]

@tidal flame rude

[proper kestrel]

that means if i get elisium enemy, i can stack up gods meter literally forever (+ hermes) and try to fill up blood stone meter for it as much as i can

[tidal flame]

how do you stack bloodstone forever?

[autumn sable]

oh, i see

[tidal flame]

with Stygian Soul?

[proper kestrel]

You cant have more then 3 max charges with this bug, but, i had 4 bloodstones stacked on the shield

wait a second

[fallow stream]

What if you just kept loading as you got them?

[proper kestrel]

Stygian doesnt recharge until beowulf hits, right?

[tidal flame]

idk, I never tried that

[mossy zinc]

Did you F10 the ammo dropping from the charmed summon from Hades? That's most certainly a bug.

[tidal flame]

shhh

[proper kestrel]

I think i did before

ALSO

[tidal flame]

they will fix it in one day

like my Level 2 Splitting Bolt xD

[proper kestrel]

Using beowulf makes me not seeing skulls stack on me

[tidal flame]

Amir be like 👀

[proper kestrel]

And also it negates skulls dropping from Zagreus

But not the crits tho

i may not have reported it yet

im still sad that my bug reports is broken :(

[fallow stream]

The only builds I truly like on Beo are Demeter cast + support boons, or curse of drowning + seastorm (which is next to impossible to get at high heat)

[mossy zinc]

Amir is busy implementing my brilliant ideas from earlier.

Update V1.0

All of EM Theseus and Asterius' attacks can now be deflected at Nyaanyaa's request.
Deflects now do twice as much damage! Thanks to Nyaanyaa for this great idea!
Cut 10 chambers from Elysium to help with Tight Deadline 2. Patroclus now has a 100% chance to appear in 1 chamber!

[tidal flame]

Not a single mention of Aphrodite

[fallow stream]

I personally liked the "divine strike now deflects before you press the attack button"

[tidal flame]

Obviously fake

[mossy zinc]

Oh yeah!

[fallow stream]

But wait.... You can already nearly double deflect damage... That's not a new idea 🤔

[mossy zinc]

But the base damage will be double.

So Brilliant Riposte will add even more!

800 damage skull deflects.

Without Brilliant Riposte.

[tidal flame]

Update V1.1

Lightning Strike now does double damage to bosses.
Deflects now no longer work on Fists.
Cut 10 chambers from Elysium to help with Tight Deadline 2. Patroclus now has a 100% chance to appear in last chamber so you can bring it to Styx also!
Aphrodite is removed from the game. Artemis now gives you Heartbreak Strike AND Deadly Strike as one boon.

[autumn sable]

I could see a world where they buff the deflect damage

and tank the base attack/special damage to lower than poseidon's

[fallow stream]

Don't forget "Athena legendary now has a reduced cooldown to 2s"

[mossy zinc]

No cooldown.

[fallow stream]

Just invulnerable, always. Nice.

[mossy zinc]

Yeah.

[fallow stream]

Speaking of which.... Broken spear tip + legendary is nice

[tidal flame]

isn't it spearpoint?

[fallow stream]

Potato potato

[tidal flame]

or have i been calling it the wrong way?

no honest question lol

[stuck ridge]

im in game rn, its spearpoint

[tidal flame]

I always called it spearpoint so idk if it's actually true

ok

thanks!

[proper kestrel]

using gods trinket changes every boon to this god

ples

[stuck ridge]

yee, just some nice convenient timing

[autumn sable]

it was kind of you to give the benefit of the doubt to the Mathmaster

[tidal flame]

xD

30% of 100 is 33???

[fallow stream]

I actually would love to have a trinket that increases chance to see same god boons for an entire biome

[tidal flame]

quick maf

[fallow stream]

I like mono builds

[stuck ridge]

zeus mono builds are my fav

but i pick up support fire for synergy

[tidal flame]

Jolted does a shocking amount of damage

[stuck ridge]

eyyyyyy shocking

[fallow stream]

Pun intended?

[tidal flame]

pun absolutely intended.

I always intend my puns.

[fallow stream]

I feel like it's dad joke time now...

[mossy zinc]

@fallow stream by the way, when I was explaining Deflect to somebody earlier I remembered your comment that you get hit with Divine Dash all the time and still have to basically i-frame attacks.

That is essentially correct. Deflect doesn't give you invincibility after all. But deflected attacks cannot harm you. You need to deflect attacks before they would hit you or get out of the way/become invincible and deflect. Otherwise you'll just get hit.

[fallow stream]

It's really just getting out of the habit of dash striking when you want to use it

I remember it being far more lenient in nighty night

[stuck ridge]

i usually just get extra dashes and spam dashstrike when i have athena dash

[tidal flame]

i usually just get extra dashes and spam dashstrike when i have athena dash
this is me on Nemesis

[autumn sable]

Also me on Nemesis. Also why I died despite having 6 dashes.

[tidal flame]

Mood

[autumn sable]

Embarassingly, Wriste can attest to this utter failure

[mossy zinc]

That's really why Divine Strike is so much more reliable for Deflects. You can just Dash-Strike into most things or sideswipe them with Dash-Strikes. Divine Dash's deflect radius doesn't cover your fist when Dash-Striking—or at least not entirely.

[fallow stream]

4 dashes feels perfect to me. When I get more, I get overconfident and very sloppy

Even 3 is fine for most weapons

[autumn sable]

I'd probably agree with that

[mossy zinc]

Same unless I'm focused and in flow. Then 5+ dashes is amazing.

[tidal flame]

6 dash so you can dash out of Hades fake swipe and dash right back in for the true swipe

[fallow stream]

The only time I like max dashes is with merciful end or Lucy rail with eternal chamber

[autumn sable]

6 dashes, however make you untouchable on long ranged weapons

GY, I think takes advantage of 6 dashes quite well defensively

[mossy zinc]

I tend to play better with 1 dash than with 2 lol.

Except for boss fights.

[autumn sable]

Actually, yeah, Merciful End will also benefit significantly from 6 dashes

[mossy zinc]

At least more focused, I would say.

[fallow stream]

My doom Lucy rail had epic dashes on that build... I was Teflon

[autumn sable]

no need to be less sloppy when everything gets deleted

[fallow stream]

Just hopping around melting everything, didn't matter

The range debuff changes it significantly

I wish they would narrow triple beam a bit though

Make it like the first hit of Triple jab 😏

[autumn sable]

@tidal flame where's your doom hestia run? we are 1 run away from already matching the number of ultra high heat runs from Nighty Night.

[tidal flame]

I died at Hades twice

[fallow stream]

Doom Hestia? Why?

[tidal flame]

I have vids but I have a big mentally block at Hades

I need to smooth that out first

[fallow stream]

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Hestia? Just curious

[tidal flame]

Doom + Hunter Dash

[fallow stream]

Ahh

[tidal flame]

Doom at Epic gives 100 damage and scale better than other boons

2 procs of normal attack and doom is good

since it stops overkilling on shield

and bypass DC

[autumn sable]

that's, what 400 damage per empowered shot?

[tidal flame]

Hunter Dash to utilize the large base damage

best of both worlds basically

[fallow stream]

I like doom, I feel like I have to argue with anyone who says it sucks... Just didn't understand the concept you had with Hestia

[autumn sable]

well, just keep at it, I'm very interested in seeing that run

just cause it sounds so counterintuitive

but I can see how DC and armor really changes the value of certain things

[tidal flame]

Yeah. Sorry if you waited on that lol. I am not very good at boss fights.

I'm trying :3

[fallow stream]

On fists it effectively gives +650% damage at epic (assuming single strikes)

[autumn sable]

I'm in no rush

[fallow stream]

I think that math is right... 🤣

[autumn sable]

I just noticed that the spreadsheet has gotten quite hefty

Just looking for gaps to see what kinds of runs haven't been done

[fallow stream]

What other runs are there gaps for?

I've been interested in improving on another weapon

[autumn sable]

Nemesis and Zag sword are both missing

[fallow stream]

Hmmm

Nemesis I may be able to pull off. What about Zeus shield?

[autumn sable]

I've been doing some Nemesis runs and it'll probably be my next project

Zeus shield is also missing

technically

Wriste has done it on 43 but off-record so I think he's been doing more attempts to try and beat the heat level

Zag shield hasn't been done

Achilles hasn't

[fallow stream]

Urrrgh

[autumn sable]

Achilles might be pretty reasonably low-hanging fruit

[fallow stream]

Maybe now, yeah

[autumn sable]

It just seems like people are overlooking the massive 150% cast damage there

[fallow stream]

I have an idea for Zeus shield in concept, but I dunno if it'll work

[autumn sable]

But I dunno, maybe the stress test of high heat makes it less powerful than I think

Talos fists is kind of missing

Though there is a RI4 32 run

[tidal flame]

I think 35 - 37 is a good baseline test for 40 +

so you don't get screw by RNG too often

while the gameplay difficulty is there

[fallow stream]

I've been thinking that a killing freeze/Blizzard shot Zeus shield is something that can work

[autumn sable]

Which I think is equivalently, if not harder in some ways than the 40+

Chiron bow has no representation

Nor Hera

[fallow stream]

Especially if you can get winter harvest

Which is pie in the sky

[autumn sable]

and I believe Zag Rail also doesn't have anything

[fallow stream]

Hera is low hanging fruit for sure

I'm surprised it's not done

[autumn sable]

Maybe, casts are tough because of the lack of reliability

[honest kernel]

Wait, how hasn't Zag Rail been run yet? Just use Spread Fire.

[autumn sable]

But also, just may be cause of lack of trying

[fallow stream]

Spread fire isn't what it used to be

[honest kernel]

It's almost what it used to be.

[autumn sable]

It's a good question, I dunno if its just no one attempted it

[honest kernel]

You get a few less multikills.

[autumn sable]

But the talk was that Spreadfire just wasn't as broken at 40+ heat

without stagger, you're liable to eat a lot of random damage

and that damage adds up when you have minimal to no heal

but certainly, there are a lot of options at 40 where you don't have to have minimal heal

There's also a lot more interest now and a lot more players making attempts so the variety is probably going to catch up?

[fallow stream]

I am coming to a realization at just how powerful a specific shield hammer is with Zeus aspect

Empowering flight 😳

I dismissed it previously

[hallow stream]

doesn't work the way we'd like it to

need to catch it first

[fallow stream]

I'm noticing that.

Now I'm disappointed

It's funny, because the description says otherwise

[autumn sable]

I dunno, that's how I interpreted the wording

But I can see how that could be confusing with Zeus aspect in particular

[wraith imp]

Question: what counts as "high heat" on this channel? What's the minimum cutoff?

[bronze stratus]

with all these new hammers

can we get a petition to allow rerolling of hammers please

I can almost never get the hammer I want

[tidal flame]

Question: what counts as "high heat" on this channel? What's the minimum cutoff?
There is no minimum cut off. High heat, per Caitlin comment, is any heat that you are struggling with.

But in general, most people here struggle at 32+ heat and they usually post here

But you can still post here no matter what heat you are on.

[wraith imp]

Thanks. I tried to read the rules and see if it was mentioned. I didn't see a number so I asked.

I hate the bow because I'm AWFUL with it on anything 16 or higher.

[tidal flame]

Whoever gatekeeps you are wrong.

What are things you look for with bow?

And what is your current playstyle?

[wraith imp]

i haven't unlocked rama yet but I've tried to use all 3 and I just mentally cannot gel with any of them.
I think chiron is probably my preferred because of autotarget by special after attack.

But my preferred playstyle is melee (hence my 2 best weapons are chaos shield (completed 42 heat) and excalibur (40 heat)).

[stuck ridge]

oof most people struggle at 32,,,, i struggle with like half that lol

[wraith imp]

you'll get better. the improvement happens in a step ladder manner.

[tidal flame]

oof most people struggle at 32,,,, i struggle with like half that lol
You are looking at response bias also.

Most people who post here, this is by no means the rule for the server.

Anyhow, per the bow, I have some experience using it so here is my 2 cents

[wraith imp]

Please share. I'll take all the advice I can get on bow.

[autumn sable]

I think the real strategy is to fail at a much higher heat over and over and then drop to your actual desired heat.

To make it feel way easier

[wraith imp]

@autumn sable I think you're right. That's how I trained for 40-42 heat. I played at 50 heat.

[autumn sable]

Lol. It’s a half joke of a comment but I’m sure there are things that you pick up in ultra high heat attempts that are hard to explain and carry over to lower heats

If anything, it’s a mental game and mental is a big part of things

[stuck ridge]

oh cool, after supper i will try 30 heat runs to see if i can do some learning

[wraith imp]

*I never play with tight deadline on. My fastest time is 19 minutes (even on 0 heat). I'm terrible at speedrunning so I just ignore that.

[tidal flame]

I usually use Zag Bow and use Dash Strike often, if not exclusively.

I ignore special unless to apply status effects, so not my focus. I joked that you can unbind special on Zag and nothing would change, that's partly true lol.

As for build, Heartbreak Strike/Deadly Strike and Hunter Dash is your bread and butter. But more importantly, you should prioritize hammer upgrades, ik you can't force hammer, but don't skip them.

Hammers to look for include Triple Shot Chain Shot Twin Shot (ideally at least one of those 3), with the current patch I'll add Flurry Shot (used to be bad but now is p good) and Point Blank Shot also.

[wraith imp]

I've tried dash strike on zag aspect. It took some getting used to. I'm not sure I still have it down. The animation doesn't happen consistently which indicates I'm not doing it correctly.

Hmm...hammer upgrades. Ok, yeah. I'll try that. I often tend to ignore them (in favor of boons).

[tidal flame]

With Point Blank Shot and Triple Shot or Twin Shot, it actually favors you to go meelee range

And I often do

It's very doable at Forced Overtime 2, but if you want to practice, no Forced Overtime is a good idea.

Obviously to go meelee range with bow you need to use dash strike exclusively so your power shot doesn't take a million years to charge.

Also after rereading your comments, I think I should add that power shot timer is noticeably shorter when you dash strike compared to normal power shot. That's why dash striking is important. Maybe you knew this but just in case.

[wraith imp]

Thanks @tidal flame. I did not know some of that. Will try to use your advice. Much appreciated.

[tidal flame]

Np! Good luck.

[bronze stratus]

woohoo

managed to snag charged skewer

in tartarus

with hidden rewards on

somehow

and also managed to get Chaos' legendary somehow

not that I ever lost a defiance tho so shrug

that was a good run all in all

[tidal flame]

I have never seen chaos DD

So can't relate

[bronze stratus]

dude

I was looking for a flourish boon

so I rerolled twice, burning all my persuasions

and DD popped up on the final reroll

I was dumbfounded

I did at least 20 runs looking for that

[stuck ridge]

holy heck 30 is hard i died in tartarus

im going to switch out high confidence for the health

[bronze stratus]

high confidence is terrible

it's one of those abilities that help you win harder

not turn a losing situation around

so it's fine if you're comfortable with the difficulty level

[stuck ridge]

yeah that makes sense, i like it on runs where i challenge myself for more time and get hit less

on way lower heat

[bronze stratus]

yep

[stuck ridge]

are there any others i should stay away from? i have darkness heal on idk if thats best

[tidal flame]

That's good

I think Shadow Presence is very popular

Same for +50 health

The rest I have seen plenty of different configs

[bronze stratus]

shadow presence is much more useful since you can actually proc it as many times as you want

abyssal blood kinda sucks

I'm sure there are ways to build around it

but unless you do so it's hard to make good use of

[tidal flame]

Ah yeah true for abyssal blood. Although I'm hesitate to staight up eliminate it

The slow can be big

Abyssal Blood Excalibur run anyone?

[bronze stratus]

nope

[severe vector]

I think the darkness heal mirror is worse if you haven’t gotten all the boss rewards since you don’t get big darkness from killing bosses and instead get hearts etc that won’t heal you

[bronze stratus]

the special slows things plenty fine

yup

darkness healing is ideal if you've died to Hades at a given heat

so you get big heals all the way to styx

[tidal flame]

I still take it even for non boss darkness runs

Because you can buy darkness from wells, which can heal

[bronze stratus]

^

[tidal flame]

And treasure darkness troves also heal

[bronze stratus]

and Bouldy too

[tidal flame]

Yeah

[severe vector]

Should I make the switch then

[tidal flame]

It used to be 80% xD

[bronze stratus]

up to you

[tidal flame]

Test it out

For sure

[bronze stratus]

it was so good

[stuck ridge]

thank yall for all this advice!!!

[severe vector]

It is affected by LC right?

[bronze stratus]

like I was topped out most of the time ha ha ha

LC?

[severe vector]

Lasting consequences

[bronze stratus]

wuzzat

[tidal flame]

Yes

[bronze stratus]

Is that the Chaos boon?

[severe vector]

Heal reduction heat thing

[tidal flame]

It's a pact

[bronze stratus]

oh yeah

all healing is affected by it

[stuck ridge]

also i tend to god boon keepsakes until styx and then choose something like patroclus, should i be trying other stuff instead?

[tidal flame]

Except GY spin and Cursed Slash

[bronze stratus]

so if you've got LC on max, no point in darkness regen iirc

[tidal flame]

No point in the other talent either xD

[bronze stratus]

uuuh try whatever works

I tend to god boon till asphodel

[severe vector]

I haven’t tried full LC yet lol

[bronze stratus]

then coin purse at ely

[severe vector]

It’s too scary I think my nerves would get me

[bronze stratus]

then acorn at styx

[tidal flame]

Full LC forces you to use Stubborn Defiance

[bronze stratus]

naw, just use GY

the only weapon in the game obviously

[tidal flame]

1 out of 6 weapons it works for every weapon.

[bronze stratus]

LC is actually a really easy way to get initial rewards

[wraith imp]

artemis on lucifer attack is...uh...not good. too bad. i thought it might have potential but nope

[tidal flame]

Erm yeah lol

[severe vector]

Which bow aspect do you guys use for 32 heat by the way? Chiron’s animation lock might feel scary with forced overtime and Hera I am worried a lot of the armoured rooms might end up being too slow for tight deadline.

[tidal flame]

Ty for your sacrifice xD

[wraith imp]

/i'm experimenting and i'm quite surprised at how bad artemis is on lucifer

[severe vector]

Artemis attack is so good on Hestia though

[wraith imp]

yep

[tidal flame]

I used Zag Bow on 32

[wraith imp]

every weapon aspect has a series of boons which optimizes it

for lucifer it seems to be zeus

for hestia it is artemis

for excalibur it's artemis

[severe vector]

I’ve always used Aphrodite on Excalibur lol

[wraith imp]

i just unlocked rama and it seems aphrodite might be perfect for it

@severe vector aphrodite is my 2nd choice for excalibur

[severe vector]

I really like zag bow I will probably give it a try

[wraith imp]

athena + aphrodite might be perfect for zeus shield

it's a gamble trying to get the duo deflect boon but if you get it then it's an easy road to victory

[severe vector]

zag bow play style is like Hestia right? Probably just Artemis dash and Aphrodite attack?

[wraith imp]

foxhope or someone else can best answer that.
i'm bad on bow

i'm trying to get better at it

[tidal flame]

Yeah Deadly Strike and Hunter Dash

But it plays very similar to Hestia yes.

Instead of reload after you shoot you reload before you shoot

[severe vector]

I’ve gotten to the point where I only have muscle memory on how to power shot when I dash strike on bow lol

[tidal flame]

I use controller vibration as my cue lol

[severe vector]

Also if you get the no charge time boon on bow, do you take it? Lose power shot but I think it might be more damage if you don’t have hunter’s dash. Not sure though if you you already have hunter’s dash

Sorry no charge time hammer

[tidal flame]

Yeah. Flurry Shot is good now.

You can take it if you don't have hunter dash

Flurry and Twin Shot do really good damage

[severe vector]

Alright thanks just wanted to make sure

[honest kernel]

what mirror trait is good now?

[inland drum]

I literally never noticed a vibrationi cue for power shot

[wraith imp]

@honest kernel the mirror traits are all helfpul imo, some more than others. the point of the mirror is to give players options and make the game's rogue-like nature easier.

for instance, ruthless reflex is great for a melee player like me who relies a lot on dashing, zigzaing, and avoiding damage.

touch of styx is great one for high heat with 1 death defiance per room.

[autumn sable]

that's stubborn defiance and the corresponding styx item is kiss

[wraith imp]

my bad on mixing up the names.

[autumn sable]

no worries, i was just clarifying

I was curious if anyone knew if the crit from Nemesis applied to Doom?

I suspect no

[tidal flame]

Doom Nemesis run?

[autumn sable]

i was just thinking about options for a clear

[fallow stream]

Has Tisiphone's whip attack always launched Zag across the entire room?

I've quite literally never been hit by it before except for today, and I went absolutely flying across the entire chamber

Caught me totally by surprise

[hollow lynx]

the whip attack is supposed to stun you still so she can hit you with the charge lol

could be a bug or some unintended interaction

[fallow stream]

No, not the straight one.

The big rising spinning whip that looks like Meg's whip attack

Tis telegraphs it, she'll dash, then rise, then spin the whip around her like a big green knot.

It absolutely threw me clean across the entire room, so I allowed myself to get hit with it once more just to see if it was random, and it happened again

I've seriously never been hit with it before, so I don't know if that's normal. Seemed oddly excessive

[hollow lynx]

ah

yeah that one knocks you about, sorry

[wraith imp]

so i just used rama (with lvl 2 aphrodite epic attack so around 110%) and i was doing anywhere from 450-525 damage with its attack in asphdel. but it was infrequent. i couldn't figure out what led to the sudden surge. does anyone here have some insight?

[tidal flame]

Whooo boys

Here is the age old comment

But I die in Elysium again

Due to both EM3 and TD2

I'll go cry in a corner now, bye

[wraith imp]

that's the bottleneck for many

i've had many high heat runs (32+) end there

[tidal flame]

Yeah, this is also not the first time I lament my death at Elysium boss fight, or boss fights in general

[wraith imp]

so anyone have any idea on how rama's powershot functions? is it a timing thing that generates the highest damage? like the peak of the curve? (does it have be just right as in it can't be too early or too late?)

[robust zephyr]

timing based thing like regular bow

just moderately slower

it syncs up with the particle effect while charging, sound effect and brief flash after reaching max range

[wraith imp]

not used to reuglar bow (my least favorite weapon) so i need some clarity. so there is a peak thing right? won't get max damage after crossing peak/inflection point, right?

[robust zephyr]

it is an exact sort of thing yes

but a hammer upgrade makes it easier

[honest kernel]

You get a couple of frames during which to loose the Power Shot.

And yes, Perfect Shot widens the Power Shot window.

[wraith imp]

hmmm...had perfect shot and i could tell a difference but i'm going to need to practice the dash attack + aiming on m&b key A LOT

[robust zephyr]

theres three indications though, the particles in your bow start to create a sort of pattern (pattern finishes in power shot range), sound also syncs up to it and a brief flash when you reach the first frame-window where you can powershot

[wraith imp]

noticed first 2 occasionally, will pay more attention for those cues (but kinda hard when being swarmed by enemies...) -- practice, practice, practice

[robust zephyr]

sound is easier to get used to imo

since you dont have to look for it

just takes alot of practice

im not the best with bow yet since i cant coordinate that with a dash strike, but can do it about 60% of the time

[wraith imp]

yeah, dash strike powershot is quicker but i wish it had aoe...i know the rama special is supposed to do that but meh...not thrilled by it.

[robust zephyr]

the projectile is kinda bigger idk if that allows it to hit more than one enemy though

still with chain shot you basically get aoe

even comboes with the shared suffering debuff from the special

they get hit twice both by bounce and by the chained dmg

[wraith imp]

chain shot? hammer upgrade?

[robust zephyr]

yeah

it makes ur attacks bounce

[wraith imp]

haven't gotten it yet

[robust zephyr]

instead of piercing enemies

probably one of the best crowd control too

[wraith imp]

will look for it. thanks for the suggestion.

[robust zephyr]

Just remember it doesnt pierce anymore

[fallow stream]

But I die in Elysium again

I don't feel like the only one. Ty 😆

[wraith imp]

yeah, seems like an annoying tradeoff

[fallow stream]

I can't fathom rama at high heat

[wraith imp]

a few nights ago I watched horherito use it on 48 heat and win

[robust zephyr]

I honestly like it the most out of all bow aspects

[drifting coral]

Is there any good guide on how to get to high heat run? My highest is 7 and I’m still struggling to get 8

[robust zephyr]

even though its slower

[fallow stream]

Oh I don't disagree it can be done... Just not by me

[robust zephyr]

its just more fun

i guess

the other ones are sort of bland

[fallow stream]

Bow is my worst weapon

[wraith imp]

i've only messed around on 2 runs and i like rama the most.

[robust zephyr]

Not the best with the bow but not the worst either

[fallow stream]

What choices do you activate on the pact @drifting coral and what weapon you using?

I'll take Hera all day if I have to use a bow

Chiron maybe

Something just feels off to me with rama

[robust zephyr]

Im sure theres a guide on Youtube by a person named JawlessPaul who gives a good rundown on pact of punishment options if thats what you are looking for.

[drifting coral]

Rail. I activate Benefit Package, Extreme Measure and the one that grant enemy shield

[robust zephyr]

well maybe try benefits package later, since its a pretty rough one to start with

[drifting coral]

Something just feels off to me with rama
@fallow stream Yeah, the charge time is too slow

[fallow stream]

First off... Avoid BP

You don't need it yet

[tidal flame]

how fast is your clear? on average

[drifting coral]

well maybe try benefits package later, since its a pretty rough one to start with
@robust zephyr Yeah, I don’t know which to avoid which to engage

[robust zephyr]

As mentioned early theres a good guide on pact options by Jawless Paul

[drifting coral]

Half an hour

[robust zephyr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irbEuFYbZPA

[tidal flame]

Tight Deadline 1 is a good starter

[fallow stream]

I strongly encourage you to also put FO1 on. You may as well get used to it

[drifting coral]

I hate that

[robust zephyr]

we all hate it at the start

but eventually it becomes natural

[drifting coral]

I strongly encourage you to also put FO1 on. You may as well get used to it
@fallow stream FO1?

[robust zephyr]

forced over time

[fallow stream]

Forced overtime

[robust zephyr]

makes enemies move and attack faster

[tidal flame]

FO and TD are things you will eventually need to deal with

[robust zephyr]

id say starting with td is a good start

conditions you to get used to the faster rate of gameplay

dont go maxed yet, try td 1

and transition into td 2

[fallow stream]

If you use the rail you might as well go to DC2

It's a freebie

[robust zephyr]

essentially yeah

[drifting coral]

I’m not very good with deadline. It makes me play to fast and reckless. I usually lost too many health as a result

[robust zephyr]

DC= damage control

maybe try fo then

forced overtime 1

get used to how much faster enemies are

[fallow stream]

You use extreme measures 1 or 2?

[robust zephyr]

Those are good ones to get used to too

[drifting coral]

3

[fallow stream]

Oh

Ok

[robust zephyr]

I would stop at 2 lol, even I dont like EM3

No real pressure to do it that early too

[drifting coral]

I only have problem with my dad

Any other boss just took time

[robust zephyr]

Yeah taking time is not a good thing

[fallow stream]

Let me pull up my pact, and see if I can build an easy heat 8 for you

Hang on

[wraith imp]

woah, zeus might be perfect with rama's special especially with relentless volley

[robust zephyr]

it used to proc on each arrow

but that got patched out because it was broken

[wraith imp]

damn, really?

[robust zephyr]

yeah i think there are some videos on it still

the broken zeus rama

[fallow stream]

So... EM3 is already 7 heat @drifting coral

[drifting coral]

Zeus used to be broken with Lucifer rail. Is that patch out, too?

[robust zephyr]

Nope its still broken

[wraith imp]

yeah, i'm rewatching horheristo's run and i'm wondering why i wasn't getting anything like that...

[robust zephyr]

well not broken

but synergistic

[fallow stream]

I don't think the problem is the heat. You should study some vids on fighting Dad

[drifting coral]

So... EM3 is already 7 heat @drifting coral
@fallow stream Yeah, I might overheat

[robust zephyr]

Yeah if Dad is the problem probably look for improving there before you mess with heat

[fallow stream]

Remove BP and just add DC1

[drifting coral]

I don't think the problem is the heat. You should study some vids on fighting Dad
@fallow stream Hmmm... To be honest, I have a lot of weapon stuck at Dad

[fallow stream]

There's your heat 8

[robust zephyr]

I support that configuration too

[wraith imp]

so this can no longer be done?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkW-_KDewo4

[drifting coral]

What is your personal easiest 8 heat setting?

[tidal flame]

8 heat? TD2 + FO1

done

[fallow stream]

EM2 FO1

Lol

Beat me to it

[tidal flame]

or TD + FO2

[drifting coral]

What is DC?

[robust zephyr]

Damage control

[fallow stream]

Damage control

The blue heart

[robust zephyr]

it gives them another instance of dmg they can take

[tidal flame]

All the acronyms are pinned in this channel btw

[drifting coral]

I already get the beat the game with every pact

[robust zephyr]

Thinking about it that videos probably from when zeus special was nerfed

[drifting coral]

Activate separately, of course

[robust zephyr]

since its only one instance of thunder dmg

Yeah its quite recent

it was unnerfed in beta

which was like last month

Still pretty good though

[wraith imp]

hmmm...so it can still be done, yeah?

i'm about to check.

[robust zephyr]

the way it used to work was say each thunder flourish adds 45 dmg, each arrow would apply 45 dmg so you would do 135 in total with lightning dmg

[drifting coral]

Does JawlessPaul have any good guide on beating Dad as well?

[wraith imp]

so do you know what it does now?

[robust zephyr]

just one instane of 45

[fallow stream]

My suggestion for beating hades is that when you get to him, turn off music, and leave in only sound effects @drifting coral

[robust zephyr]

it has an internal cd

[wraith imp]

dammit

[robust zephyr]

not as absurd but still great

[wraith imp]

but jolted is a must then to make up for it

[drifting coral]

Isn’t all the curse is a must?

The +40% buff is quite broken

[wraith imp]

what is lvl 5 rama?

base is 30%

[proper kestrel]

60

[wraith imp]

hmm...not bad

[robust zephyr]

used to be 80 before lol

[drifting coral]

At Styx, sometime the Titan Blood is sold. Is that RNG?

[wraith imp]

dammit

[honest kernel]

Yes.

[wraith imp]

i missed out

[honest kernel]

Either Titan Blood or a Diamond.

[wraith imp]

btw, has SGG indicated what rewards would be added (if any) for beating heat runs >20? right now, there's nothing beyond 20 besides just bragging rights

[drifting coral]

Nice! I was worried that I need to fight 40+ heat run for more resources

That’s enough to fully upgrade everything?

[hollow lynx]

i don't think so, not if you include the unreleased fists

[drifting coral]

Ah...

[proper kestrel]

well, i think you need to do around 70 runs

[hollow lynx]

and iirc i don't think there's enough now if you don't include trades/styx shop

[proper kestrel]

so, basically, every wep to 14 heat runs

[wraith imp]

20 heat on all 6 weapons should be enough to unlock everything and max them out

[drifting coral]

I let Dusa keep 5 Ambrosias. I didn’t have the heart to take it back...

[proper kestrel]

brb ill check the wiki for upgrades cost

[wraith imp]

btw, was max excalibur damage reduction always 40%? (for some reason the number 60% is in my mind's eye)

[hollow lynx]

306 for all weapon aspects total (5+15+16+15)x6

[proper kestrel]

wiki says nothing

huh, really?

you get 2 titan blood per run

[hollow lynx]

20x2x6=204 for titan blood, 252 if you include heat 0 for non-hell mode

[fallow stream]

I took that ambrosia back and fed it straight into weapons

[hollow lynx]

i included the unreleased fists for the aspect total

[proper kestrel]

eh

can i talk about this 48 heat run?

[drifting coral]

I took that ambrosia back and fed it straight into weapons
@fallow stream How could you? Now, where would Dusa ever get to taste them?

[fallow stream]

She had 15 ambrosia. I wasn't letting her keep them all

At the time, I was short on resources

[drifting coral]

But she is adorable

[fallow stream]

Meh

[drifting coral]

She won’t get anymore than that

[fallow stream]

Are you still friend zoned for eternity?

[drifting coral]

...Yes

[fallow stream]

Then who's the sucka?

Plus, the way they scripted it, it was perfectly reasonable and respectful when you took it back

[honest kernel]

Dusa asked that I take them back so I took them back.

[fallow stream]

Exactly

[drifting coral]

Well...

I thought I have more than enough

[proper kestrel]

Its your own matter

[drifting coral]

Titan Blood is the only resource that you can’t change into something else

[proper kestrel]

i dont see the point of discussing it here

[fallow stream]

Yes you can @drifting coral

2 titan blood for 1 Ambrosia 🤭

[proper kestrel]

You can with random wretched broker

[fallow stream]

Or... 1 Ambrosia for 1 Titan blood 🤔

Or.. 1 Titan blood for 250 gems... 😐

[hollow lynx]

15 keys for blood is much more worthwhile

[fallow stream]

Yup

I still hate Skelly for making me pour blood into Zag sword.

He will suffer. I despise that weapon aspect 🤣

[proper kestrel]

one thing about horheristo

he is known for doing a seeded runs without notifying anyone

even then, its a good run

[fallow stream]

There's nothing wrong with seeded runs

[proper kestrel]

maybe not here

and not for me

and not for freaking world records

thats all

[fallow stream]

Only the purists that can't do it probably complain about it 🤣

The game is hard. Take every advantage you can get

[mossy zinc]

the way it used to work was say each thunder flourish adds 45 dmg, each arrow would apply 45 dmg so you would do 135 in total with lightning dmg
That was never a thing in the beta, either. It was always just one proc per target per 1 volley in the beta.

[drifting coral]

I just try TD1 with FO2

[mossy zinc]

The cooldown was never removed in the beta.

[drifting coral]

I was too panic and worry about the deadline that I only get to Eyslium

[mossy zinc]

It's just practice. You don't even notice the timer eventually.

[drifting coral]

The thing is; I like to enjoy to scenery. Brake all the gold pots. Stuff like that

I can’t do it while I’m on the deadline

Seriously, can’t they just limit timer to during fighting encounters?

[mossy zinc]

Well, you don't need to pick the timer if it's no fun for you.

[tidal flame]

The thing is; I like to enjoy to scenery. Brake all the gold pots. Stuff like that
You can still go fast and break all gold pots

If TD is not fun then yeah don't take it

[proper kestrel]

Timer is not tight enough if you have enough damage

[tidal flame]

But I want to say that picking TD doesn't stop you from break gold pots

Explosive Shot and Rama go together like fish and skittle

I also offered Perfect Shot lol

nice hammer game

[fallow stream]

@mossy zinc have you been noticing fist special not working/stalling on occasion when you try and throw it?

[tidal flame]

@autumn sable you can't farm 40+ heat like it's nothing

this is unfair, this is outrageous

[wraith imp]

Excalibur is so good. I love it. Either artemis as base or aphrodite on attack is so good. i think aphrodite is more versatile (gives damage reduction, damage increase, health increase, and a status). and combining aphrodite with poseidon gives access to sweet nectar which increases value of pom when they're difficult to come by sometimes in high heat

[autumn sable]

@tidal flame I do it for you, bby

[drifting coral]

Is the Guan Yu aspect useless und High Heat run? There is no way I can stand around and charge it to use the siphoning attack, which means that all I have is the downside of health and heal reduction

I just beat the 8 Heat

The game was so fast! Thanks, guy.

[honest kernel]

Guan Yu was the first Aspect for the Spear that really got high Heat (32+) exploration.

[tidal flame]

Is the Guan Yu aspect useless und High Heat run? There is no way I can stand around and charge it to use the siphoning attack, which means that all I have is the downside of health and heal reduction
Quite the contrary, GY is the staple of Ultra High Heat runs (40+). With the recent changes, Hades seems to be poised to step up its game, but GY is still the cornerstone.

GY is good because you can abuse the Piercing and high base damage of GY Special with Charged Skewer and Deadly Flourish.

You kinda ignore the spin, actually, not that it's useless, just not the focus.

[drifting coral]

But what about your charge attack?

I see

[wraith imp]

question about rama...can special hit multiple enemies (>3) so that damage against all enemies hits the 3 tethered by special?

i'm tyring to see and the action is happening to quickly to tell...

[autumn sable]

I would throw in that Zag spear has potential for higher heats. But maybe not as much as GY.

For the reasons Fox said.

[honest kernel]

See, I used Divine Strike for my 32 clear.

[tidal flame]

I would throw in that Zag spear has potential for higher heats. But maybe not as much as GY.
How necessary is Explosive Skewer (?) for Zag Spear?

[autumn sable]

Very

[honest kernel]

Would you ever go Explosive Skewer with Hades if you spawned into it?

[autumn sable]

Well, I haven't checked out the changes to the special but I would think it only helps explosive

I'm no expert at Hades, you'd have to ask @daring hedge if he'd try explosive launcher with Hades

[honest kernel]

I've got a 20 Heat clear with style under my belt.

[daring hedge]

I would say it'd probably be viable, yeah. Hades' increased spin range allowing for easier marking of more targets at once makes it good for groups, to follow up with explosive launcher use, as well as single target with a solid boon and regular application of the mark to bosses

One of my nearly successful runs before the eventual 41 clear had explosive in it

Chain skewer can even be usable at higher heat for clearing regular chambers with consistent spin application on enemy waves at once, made easier with the spin size buff

[honest kernel]

Interesting.

[autumn sable]

I finally saw that spin size buff and it’s disgusting

I love it

But it seems like it would be good synergy. Mark a room on spawn in and hit them with the AoE of explosive launcher

[daring hedge]

Yeah, it goes very well with dash-strike to special weaving like GY typically does, except after spin application

And can make for pretty seamless priv status if your boons are set up decently

I think massive spin + chain skewer would have big potential if it weren't for it being mostly powerful for regular chambers, and only slightly so for bosses

[fallow stream]

I literally cannot beat Hades anymore. I need to put this game down for a while

If I dodge early enough to iframe his attacks he catches me at the tail end, and if I wait a spilt second longer, he hits me before I can get outta the way.

I've also noticed failure to launch on Calls and specials right before his attacks. Zag just stands there like I'm not pushing any buttons.

[proper kestrel]

try using hermes "extra dash" boon

it helps a lot to time out stuff, because you can just chain dash out

[fallow stream]

Thanks chief

[proper kestrel]

Also, if you use the Hestia rail, you can pretty much kite Hades

[fallow stream]

I'm running AP2

Not many options

[proper kestrel]

well, your choise

[fallow stream]

I'm practicing actually timing his attacks because I'm tired of running and facetanking

[proper kestrel]

or you can try beowulf aspect and roll with it

[fallow stream]

I use fists

[proper kestrel]

or, ofc, you can spend one run without damaging the boss just to learn timings

[autumn sable]

41 heat Nemesis video is now uploaded for anyone interested. Enjoy all the scuffed minibosses and summons.

[mossy zinc]

@fallow stream I've actually only been playing Nemesis the last couple days. I'll have to try it.

[honest kernel]

See, you rained on my parade, but I was gonna posit Nemesis as one of the easier high Heat options.

[wraith imp]

@autumn sable link?

[honest kernel]

You just spam Double Edge x Dashes, then Special, then repeat.

It's in #h1-victory-boasting

[wraith imp]

Thank you.

[autumn sable]

@wraith imp the video is in #self-promotion

[wraith imp]

Got it. I saw the victory image but no video was a bit confuzzled.

[mossy zinc]

@fallow stream do you have a practice save for the fight?

[tidal flame]

I have a really low desire to climb lately

so many closed calls really hurt my mental xD

[daring hedge]

I kind of want to try a hades aspect at 43 or something with an explosive launcher leaning build now lol

[mossy zinc]

With Deadly Flourish and that +150% Special damage?

Well, that probably works with any Flourish.

@tidal flame just learn and practice at your own pace and what you feel you need to.

[tidal flame]

Deadly probably scales better?

[autumn sable]

Aphro attack and Artemis special might be nasty

[mossy zinc]

Deadly Flourish will do the most damage on it.

[autumn sable]

If you can manage it

[daring hedge]

Yeah, basically dash-strike to special weave, GY style after applying spin, maybe with a status on special for priv status depending on things if not deadly flourish

Yeah that would be extremely ideal

Though with AP I feel like a crossed out heart rend is in my future

[mossy zinc]

But it probably doesn't need Deadly Flourish with that +150% special. So you could get some utility with e.g. Weak or anything instead.

[autumn sable]

Crossed out boons are the real end game

I just F10 every time a duo I want gets crossed out

[daring hedge]

I love getting some new duo dialogue while running AP and having it get crossed out right after their convo

Lol

[mossy zinc]

Just don't put any points in AP. Easy.

[tidal flame]

That happens way too often tbh

[mossy zinc]

Not to me, you're just too rude to the gods.

Always barking at them.

[tidal flame]

Press X to Doubt.jpeg

[mossy zinc]

You wouldn't find X.

[tidal flame]

https://m.imgur.com/a/nQroZcD

I beg to differ

[autumn sable]

Yeah, but didn’t you rebind everything so you’d hit X less?

[daring hedge]

Oh yeah, something about your weirdly small hands right

I don't judge fox it's ok

[tidal flame]

X is for cast, casting doubts on Nyaa's assertion.

Oh yeah, something about your weirdly small hands right
It's not weird I just don't feel comfortable hitting X so often

[daring hedge]

Your small hands that are very normal

Sorry, fixed

[mossy zinc]

@tidal flame see, that's where you're wrong. https://imgur.com/a/3aniNat

Switching up all the buttons smh.

[tidal flame]

ok grandma

[mossy zinc]

🔫

[tidal flame]

who uses SNES controllers anymore smh

[daring hedge]

Time to play hades with a USB SNES controller

[mossy zinc]

There's a pro SFV player who uses a PS1 pad lol.

[honest charm]

I use SNES controllers every time

[tidal flame]

Ok boomer

[mossy zinc]

Basically, SNES pads are the secret tech to beat 40+.

The ones with the Turbo button.

[honest charm]

It's like WASD movement and gamepad attacks
ideal

[tidal flame]

guys can I write macro to auto load casts onto Hera or Beowulf?

[autumn sable]

All the auto-aim of gamepad. 8 degrees of movement.

[daring hedge]

Lol

[autumn sable]

Perfect

Do you need a macro to hold the cast button?

[tidal flame]

I'm just too lazy to triple press the X button

[mossy zinc]

Turbo button is the real tech for doing dashes.

[autumn sable]

Didn’t they just change it to hold to auto load all casts?

[tidal flame]

what is turbo button? is it edible?

Didn’t they just change it to hold to auto load all casts?
They did but then they removed it due to bug

They said they will reinstate it soon

[autumn sable]

Oh

[tidal flame]

But it want it now

[autumn sable]

Lysol reminded me that I was messing around with Zag sword in high heat and I actually quite liked it

The movement is really nice and I can see potential there

[mossy zinc]

It repeats the input over and over again when you hold down a button.

[honest charm]

sorry to interrupt, but I heard something about turbo dashes

[tidal flame]

so like n key rollover on keyboard?

[daring hedge]

RI4 40+ made easy with zag sword zoomy dash, amazing

[honest charm]

(11) mash dash
-from the high heat strats compendium

[autumn sable]

I won’t lie, the dash range really helped keep me behind spearbois. The ideal position

[tidal flame]

how do you compensate the damage though

[mossy zinc]

No, it's just mashing the button for you when you hold it down, basically.

[autumn sable]

Not often I can get through a room of spears with minimal damage

[tidal flame]

and dash strike spam on it seems hard due to extended range

[mossy zinc]

How to unlock 50+ heat in Hades. https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/classic-retro-joystick-quick-shot-ii-eighties-white-was-very-popular-commodore-amiga-c-gaming-computers-157040650.jpg

[honest charm]

and dash strike spam on it seems hard due to extended range
@tidal flame it's actually 100% unaffected

[tidal flame]

I did the Peachy run

[autumn sable]

Yeah, I didn’t really notice it affecting much

[daring hedge]

Confirmation from our resident zoom stan

[tidal flame]

I personally felt it

[autumn sable]

I did a lot of cross ups though

Dash one way, dash back the other

[tidal flame]

@mossy zinc do it with a banana wired to a control board or burst

[daring hedge]

Combine with snap nova for teleporting zagreus

[autumn sable]

You have a point about damage. I’d think merciful end would be your best bet

[tidal flame]

this channel strategies are getting too big brained for me xD

[autumn sable]

But good luck getting that

[daring hedge]

I think it's really funny how hated snap nova seems to be

I haven't even used it yet

[autumn sable]

I got snap nova on an attempt and made it out of Tartarus but it’s weird

There might be some potential there

But it’s so crazy my brain can’t handle it

[mossy zinc]

I'm liking the damage from Nemesis a lot. A lot of potential there. Even a common Heartbreak Strike on it does a ton of damage.

With some poms on it.

[tidal flame]

But it’s so crazy my brain can’t handle it
Yeah, too big brain for me, too.

[honest charm]

It would be good if you wanted it, prepared for it, built for it, etc.
but it breaks my single dash zoom combo

[mossy zinc]

I like Snap Nova.

[tidal flame]

I was about to say I am glad we can agree on something referring to your Nemesis comment, then you have to say "I like Snap Nova."

[mossy zinc]

You're not spamming Special on Nemesis anyway.

The free dashes are great.

[daring hedge]

"Snap nova is simply too big brained" - #h1-high-heat-strategies

[vivid crater]

i feel like snap nova needs a cooldown it

[autumn sable]

Sometimes you just gotta know your own limits