js3 cp2 type shi lowk hard af even with goated rng and speedrunning strats
#h1-high-heat-strategies
sly cove
forest token
But consider Beowulf
sly cove
But consider Beowulf
do u remember how many times i died to timer on the beo 50 grind
forest token
were you on ap2 or something
sly cove
were you on ap2 or something
yeah
anything for ri0
tbf that was a long ass time ago but i thought youd remember
wet furnace
Wait tree actually did a 50
Or did you just die to the timer a lot while trying to do 50
forest token
pretty sure both lmao
sly cove
but yeah sounds like an ap2 issue
nah i had a good like 10 or 15 runs actually get the ap2 rolls
sly cove
pretty sure both lmao
yeah both
sly cove
nah i had a good like 10 or 15 runs actually get the ap2 rolls
actually prob 5-10
thick temple
what is the best weapon to farm these heat runs?
upper juniper
what is the best weapon to farm these heat runs?
…wdym by that
If you’re talking bounties, that’s on a per weapon basis, and honestly if you’re pushing heat you can get pretty high with just the meta aspect on your favourite weapon or… even just trying a bit harder with your favourite aspect as long as you know how to build it and have a good pact
of course aspects like Rama, Hestia, Eris, Demeter, Nemesis, Guan-Yu, Achilles, Zeus are going to outperform other aspects on their respective weapons but if you really want to you can take your favourite aspect pretty far
coral ginkgo
#h1-discussion message Case and point
coral ginkgo
whats fo2
When talking about heat, most guides and convos use 2-letter abbreviations for the contract items. FO2 is Forced Overtime 2 (40% faster enemies).
sly cove
mfs reallt cant read a joke
goddamn
ive been around for like 2 years i know what fo2 stands for
coral ginkgo
No, sarcasm doesn't work via text I'm afraid.
Sorry, I'm one of those ppl on the internet who never reads the name and only ever reads the message, so I didn't even realize it were you who asked the question lmao
coral ginkgo
do u know who i am
I remember your name from way back before my hiatus. Which according to my message history was roughly 15 months long.
I did all weapons to 40 heat and then dipped pretty much.
sly cove
I remember your name from way back before my hiatus. Which according to my messa...
oh
seems abt right
ive quit for a long ass time too
not 15 months
forest token
I remember your name from way back before my hiatus. Which according to my messa...
wait what it's been 15 months
that's insane i still remember your name lmao
not exactly what you did tbf but the name and pfp is very familiar
what is time
coral ginkgo
wait what it's been 15 months
yeah lmao
I remember leaving when most of the server was talking about Hades 2 and I was trying to avoid spoilers bc I wanna wait for the full release 😅
That said, it was also 15 months of being an active lol player in an amateur esprts team, so I did get my fill of gaming xD
quick ingot
Any tips for 32 heat?
shy plinth
Quite a few of them, the pinned guide is extensive
prime burrow
Yeah it takes getting used to
sly cove
better than superdad
alpine smelt
better than superdad
what does that look like?
sly cove
not fun
surreal heron
Any tips for 32 heat?
Record a failed attempt and post it here so we can give some tips on how to improve. Having a separate pair of eyes reviewing your gameplay can really shorten the grind. Otherwise if you're just starting I'd read the pinned guide by Bananas.
mighty tendon
how does somebody maximize beowulf efficiency on high heats? it seems extremely fun and one of the best aspects but it just feels very sluggish whenever i use it
and is eris just rng for clockets? it seems like unless i’ve had clockets hestia’s just been infinitely more consistent. even then it seemed still comparable even with an arty special crit build
broken echo
how does somebody maximize beowulf efficiency on high heats? it seems extremely ...
Passion flare and use sudden rush to retain the safety of bullrush
Or you could do trippy flare and pray for extra casts
broken echo
and is eris just rng for clockets? it seems like unless i’ve had clockets hestia...
Eris starts delta chamber with Zeus attack+jolted
Poseidon and Athena on dash or call are good
Hestia also leans into the attack with aphro start. I like ricochet but piercing and hazard also have use
coral ginkgo
how does somebody maximize beowulf efficiency on high heats? it seems extremely ...
Are you using a controller or KnM? In the latter case, mapping cast to the scroll wheel is an absolute gamechanger for Beowulff.
mighty tendon
Are you using a controller or KnM? In the latter case, mapping cast to the scrol...
controller :)
coral ginkgo
Ah well
mighty tendon
all binds are default apart from summon being stick and reload being left trigger because i crutch hestia a lot
ivory drum
Rebind cast to a shoulder button on Beo
coral ginkgo
And for Eris, I can make no comment. I'm pretty sure my gun high heat was Hestia back when I did it '^^
cedar kettle
controller :)
i use keyboard to play the game...
surreal heron
i use keyboard to play the game...
would then suggest mapping your second most used strike onto the right mouse button.
(so for beowulf map cast onto rmb)
cedar kettle
would then suggest mapping your second most used strike onto the right mouse but...
I do that with casts or special
coral ginkgo
would then suggest mapping your second most used strike onto the right mouse but...
Mouse wheel is much faster for Beo and Hestia. You can bind it to the actual scrolling, so essentially one input becomes all three charges.
sly cove
Mouse wheel is much faster for Beo and Hestia. You can bind it to the actual scr...
you definitely want cast control for beo
being able to just use 1 cast to kill a group of enemies
broken echo
Hey guys need some tips
Delete the hades 2 spoilers
half trout
Sry guys😓
broken echo
Nw, just the rules
half trout
I’m new to the server
broken echo
I’m new to the server
all g, could you delete the message with the hades 2 spoilers though?
ivory drum
this one
sly cove
s/o this message being still useless
bleak grotto
s/o this message being still useless
No, I saw it work! I have photographic evidence
wooden ermine
So i'm like 100+ hours into this game and I only managed a 10 heat finish. After finding out about @forest token guide that's pinned here, i managed a 16 heat on first try. Darn, why didn't i look for guides earlier ... i thought i was smart. Thank you @forest token and all other people that take the time and make guides for people like me.
shy plinth
Nice
And yeah often the intuitive choices people make about pacts are also the more challenging ones
Bananas smart
forest token
So i'm like 100+ hours into this game and I only managed a 10 heat finish. After...
Lol np
surreal heron
So i'm like 100+ hours into this game and I only managed a 10 heat finish. After...
Interacting with guides/community can really make things a lot easier. Although figuring out things on your own is a lot of fun too.
worthy haven
shy plinth
It's to constantly remind people that this isn't for hades 2. People also still post about hades 2
And yes, 64 is max heat
worthy haven
I'm glad for it. I'm waiting for Hades 2 to be released on Xbox and, even avoiding them, I've still seen some major spoilers.
surreal heron
is 64 max heat
Yep, at the moment there are only 2 people (angel1c/bai) who have achieved a fully unseeded/unmodded 64 heat win (and 6 other players who have done it with community approved mods).
bleak grotto
One wonders whether the unseeded+unmodded players are even human 🤖
worthy haven
What's a seeded player?
broken echo
What's a seeded player?
Baj cleared 64 basically with knowledge of the run’s events
worthy haven
What kind of knowledge? He studied the enemies' movements or did he know up ahead what was coming?
strong palm
everything
all room doors, spawns, boons, their rarities, etc
a good example if you want to see how a seed works, if you press give up, you are going to get the exact starting hammer/boon you did when you started the run, except if you use a god keepsake which will change the god, but not the hammer
worthy haven
Oh. And unseeded unmodded, what's the highest record?
strong palm
Heat? 64
Time? 5 minutes and 4 seconds
worthy haven
Simultaneuosly? As in 64 heat in 5 minutes?
strong palm
oh god no
worthy haven
Oh my... That scared me for a second...
strong palm
if anybody cpuld pull that off though, it'd be angel1c 
broken echo
Lmao
Yeah no one really runs unmodded heat seriously though rn. Plenty of modded runners
Unseeded modded, to be specific
worthy haven
I'm unmodded and unseeded. Highest I've got in Hell Mode is 21 heat. I'd like to see how high I can get (hey, phrasing! - Archer). I have no interest in seeds or mods. 🙂
broken echo
i mean higher than 50
heat is perfectly playable below ~55 but higher than that, mods make the game better/playable
surreal heron
Yeah no one really runs unmodded heat seriously though rn. Plenty of modded runn...
technically playad has been doing some 61 heat stuff (ap1).
but yeah unmodded really sucks for max heat
not because of difficulty but because of rng grinding
h2: ||as much as I clown on Hades 2 being too easy, I'm glad that approval process didn't make a comeback in h2||
broken echo
I'm unmodded and unseeded. Highest I've got in Hell Mode is 21 heat. I'd like to...
also just know that mods will always be waiting for you if you decide to push past 50 🙏
worthy haven
also just know that mods will always be waiting for you if you decide to push pa...
Are there mods on Xbox?
brisk summit
Yep, at the moment there are only 2 people (angel1c/bai) who have achieved a ful...
that's it.
i'm speedrunning hades mobile.
all shall fear the 64 heat demon
ashen garnet
h2: ||as much as I clown on Hades 2 being too easy, I'm glad that approval proce...
||Wish FO would not return because it forces to learn multiple muscle memory timings and it takes a v long time||
brisk summit
the worst part abt hades mobile
sly cove
I'm unmodded and unseeded. Highest I've got in Hell Mode is 21 heat. I'd like to...
tbf modded is kinda just qol
brisk summit
is that when i close the map
game*
and respond to a text or sum
it'll count as a quit
n if you do it twice
it forces give up
sly cove
technically playad has been doing some 61 heat stuff (ap1).
is that to practice for 64
or what
surely 62 is easier
(ri3 obv)
surreal heron
is that to practice for 64
Maybe, Playad has done 62 on Rama unmodded but it's a bit of a grind.
The big problem is that you have to consitantly reset the first few chambers for a good build for 64 heat.
No idea if Playad will grind out a proper unmodded 64 heat. Tried it myself and only got to Elysium like 3 or 4 times.
(for reference it took me 2-3 months to get modded 64 heat, unmodded would probably take me the better part of a year if I actually bothered grinding it)
surreal heron
So Truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue
surreal heron
do ppl still run hyper
I do sometimes
mainly stick to normal modded because the weapons I play don't really benefit much from hypermodded
(unless I'm playing guan yu/rama which are a lot of fun on hypermodded)
sly cove
mainly stick to normal modded because the weapons I play don't really benefit mu...
what doesnt benefit from guaranteed hermes
surreal heron
what doesnt benefit from guaranteed hermes
zeus mostly
you don't really need extra dashes
you just need explosive return and a good special boon mostly
(preferably epic aphrodite)
honestly hypersprint from hermes hurts my timing on zeus since I'm used to the animations of normal dashes
surreal heron
It's fine for damage but a lot of the time you're holding a bullrush so the hypersprint's speed buff will finish it's affect, also with aphrodite special the buff will give an additive bonus rather than the multiplicative you'd get on zeus special.
Also a big thing on high heat zeus is some animation tech called "pseudo sliding" where you can do a delayed dashstrike to make Zagreus continue his dash's momentum for a while after the dash - this is impossible to do with hypersprint.
sly cove
It's fine for damage but a lot of the time you're holding a bullrush so the hype...
just get bug news then
surely thats worth
+50% flat
broken echo
it's fine
forest token
yeah have fun hitting that 1% lmao
surreal heron
just get bug news then
XD, unfortunately that's impossible. On routine inspection 3/4 the game defaults to giving you an "infernal soul" setup on the mirror which can't be changed. So you're locked out of Bad news.
forest token
oh yeah also that
surreal heron
Honestly just regular modded is enough for the build on zeus shield if you play right. If you have Explosive return and aphro special then that's enough. Afterwards it's more important to get good room layouts etc.
sly cove
has someone tried hyper 64 allspects
broken echo
🗿
broken echo
you could probably hyper the last two yeah
well...zagsword got up to 58 on a flurry route
surreal heron
has someone tried hyper 64 allspects
won't be happening in unseeded, some aspects just don't have enough initial damage to get through tartarus fast enough (unless you luck into athena's legendary - which is extremely unlikely)
sly cove
won't be happening in unseeded, some aspects just don't have enough initial dama...
s/o eris 62
really tho?
with guar skips and first boon epic + midboss guar god
surreal heron
s/o eris 62
64 Eris has been done a couple of times with community approved modding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4MX6SOxas4 , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWLJvB4-CX4
sly cove
64 Eris has been done a couple of times with community approved modding: https:/...
yeah but i meant the eris 62 run that got athena legendary
surreal heron
oohhhhhhhh
yeah, meant more that the athena legendary hypothetically can make tight deadline irrelevant when playing high heat. I've had it happen once in my 64 heat grind and only 2 other times with approval process 2
sly cove
surely rails can clear with guar clockets + stupid stuff right
surreal heron
surely rails can clear with guar clockets + stupid stuff right
not really, clockets aren't really that useful if you get one shot
sly cove
not really, clockets aren't really that useful if you get one shot
just dodge better smh
surreal heron
XD
sly cove
but like
surreal heron
generally rails look for delta chamber since it grants i-frames to the dahstrike
sly cove
hesty resetting for purple dashes with tdash start
can prob win right
am i underestimating 64
surreal heron
not sure but don't think with that build
sly cove
what else would u go for
surreal heron
I think all rails can hypothetically do it if they go for deltachamber+zeus-attack+jolted
^deltachamber+zeus attack
with hestia the damage control buff is pretty difficult
sly cove
yeah
i thought purple dash tdash would be enough tho
with guar clockets + reset for solid % for late
surreal heron
you'd still need to get to the purple dash
surreal heron
(earliest you can get them is chamber 6, you'd be dead by then)
sly cove
really
surreal heron
on hestia if you start tdash I think so
surreal heron
armored guys? you mean miniboss or general armored enemies?
surreal heron
then they can appear in chamber 1
sly cove
really
surreal heron
yup
sly cove
am i thinking of speedrunning where theres no bp2
surreal heron
no idea really, I only really watch high heat runs nowadays so I have no idea what speedrunning looks like recently
sly cove
no idea really, I only really watch high heat runs nowadays so I have no idea wh...
i havent played the game in i think over a year LOL
forest token
am i thinking of speedrunning where theres no bp2
you can get a bp enemy in c1 lmao
but yeah 64 hyper isn't really feasible bc some aspects just wont make it out of tart
with skips you're still fighting like half of tart really
and you dont really have any damage
bleak grotto
Alas, poor Arthur
surreal heron
Alas, poor Arthur
actually arthur is up there in the doable weapons. Good initial damage with the first few swings being fast enough for deal with dc
Was able to savescum 64 arthur to em4 (with about 3:30 left on the clock) but gave up. With a few more skips (and someone actually good playing it) it'd be possible.
sly cove
and you dont really have any damage
just like get ME
when u get to chiron
just uh
end it all
shy plinth
When you get to an aspect that starts with "ch"
broken echo
tbf chaos heat kinda easy
sly cove
When you get to an aspect that starts with "ch"
wdym level 0 zagshield is light work
shy plinth
wdym level 0 zagshield is light work
I guess it is still easier than waiting for chiron to deal damage
sly cove
didnt chiron do 59 or smth
ivory drum
60
forest token
yeah chiron's at 60 bc timothy is insane
worthy haven
Hey, guys, I'm bedridden due to a micro fracture in my coxis, so I'll be playing Hades for a while on high heat Hell Mode. I'm currently doing 19 skulls with the Adamant Rail while trying to get the Pierced Butterfly to at least 40%, that's the fun and challenging part for me.
strong palm
worthy haven
I did it! And killing Hades without getting hit made the Pierced Butterfly get to 40%. 🤟
broken echo
Hey, guys, I'm bedridden due to a micro fracture in my coxis, so I'll be playing...
There’s a self promo channel for stream ads btw
worthy haven
There’s a self promo channel for stream ads btw
This wasn't an ad. This was me sharing about what I was doing with people who (I assume) like to watch others play Hades. Is that wrong?
sly cove
thats an ad
worthy haven
thats an ad
The definition of advertising is an industry used to call the attention of the public to something, typically a product or service. The definition of advertisement is the means of communication in which a product, brand or service is promoted to a viewership in order to attract interest, engagement, and sales.
What was I selling, then?
In any case, if you felt wronged or hurt by it, let me know.
broken echo
In any case, if you felt wronged or hurt by it, let me know.
I didn’t mean ad in a derogatory way. You’re advertising your stream, which belongs in a different channel than what you posted it in.
Not that deep
broken echo
If everyone streaming put their stream links in the discussion channels whenever they streamed, channels would get pretty irritating to read. But yeah, it just belongs in a different channel. No harm done
bleak grotto
The link isn't so much a discussion of heat or strategy but a link to one's personal stream which happens to involve heat ATM
quiet acorn
can always link people to #self-promotion
worthy haven
I didn’t mean ad in a derogatory way. You’re advertising your stream, which belo...
Advertising and sharing are different things. But that's ok. I won't post links here. 👍 I guess you tell people not to jaywalk as well, huh?
broken echo
Advertising and sharing are different things. But that's ok. I won't post links ...
Lmao dude, it’s not that deep. There’s just a channel for posting links to your streams
broken echo
There’s a self promo channel for stream ads btw
You should reread my original message
Everyone else is able to function just fine posting stream links where they belong, so I think you can do it too
strong palm
He left
broken echo
Oh well
sly cove
lmfao
bleak grotto
Poor bedridden gamer
wet furnace
Gaslight squad strikes again
broken echo
Guilty
bleak grotto
There's a nice guide pinned in this channel!
shy plinth
Yeah would def recommend the guide
For what it's worth, tight deadline 3 should be doable with the right pacts
Players often end up avoiding it because they're also taking pact options that slow down combat
forest token
if you're gonna use rail, hestia and eris should be able to clear pretty well
especially hestia, which is considered one of the easiest aspects for heat
dreamy quest
FO1 isn't hard to get used to
both FO1/2 will take you time to adjust and you gonna have to kill plenty of runs and expect losses
broken echo
Fo2 is fine, just shift your decision making and dodging to be earlier
shy plinth
I mean FO2 is fine but the adjustment period can be demoralizing
Def agree with the rec to stick with it, but it's not free
dreamy quest
Fo2 is not free, but FO1 along with first 2 TDs are imo free
shy plinth
First two TDs yes
FO1 will def result in at least a couple of deaths to asterius at first
dreamy quest
aside from TD1 i don't think there is an easier punishment to take other than fo1
dreamy quest
hard labor for me is death
shy plinth
HL1???
dreamy quest
im speaking from a non weapon specific view. i find HL very hard on melee
broken echo
Yeah I guess fo2 isn’t free, but I think adjusting all of your gameplay by a little bit is often simpler than making a boss harder
dreamy quest
HL, CP and many others can be free on hestia
shy plinth
No way calisthenics is ever free
broken echo
Everything is free on hestia except dc
dreamy quest
No way calisthenics is ever free
i dont feel it outside of boss fights on hestia
shy plinth
Like if we're talking at 32 level, at least a little hard labor should be pretty doable, melee or not
Yeah I mean the boss fights are the hard part here
dreamy quest
Everything is free on hestia except dc
true tbh
I'd rather get hit more but for less damage than play safer and get hit less but for more damage
from my experience fo2 without hard labor is easier than fo1 with hard labor
shy plinth
One point of hard labor is a pretty nominal increase in damage
If we're talking the diff between HL0 and HL5, sure
Generally speaking, over the years the most successful first-time 32 pact has included HL5 FO0 but some folks def have better experiences with lower HL, myself included
I did 24x32 with an HL1 FO2 pact
dreamy quest
One point of hard labor is a pretty nominal increase in damage
true, but the difference can be felt especially when eating hades 3 swing attack
shy plinth
Getting hit by that at 20% increased speed happens way more
Like it's just about adapting either way, but "FO1 is easier than everything except TD1" is tough to follow when the pact has a lot of options that are relatively low impact
FO some of the most noticeable heat in the game. Once you get used to it then sure, which is why the best play for learning 32 and beyond is to turn it on and leave it on
But I'd imagine an adjustment period where you used to clear Hades and now sometimes die to Lernie can be dispiriting
shy plinth
It's like trying to say the alphabet backwards
dreamy quest
turned back to fo0 for some achievement hunting and it threw my timing off
shy plinth
But it's certainly possible to clear 32 reliably without any points in FO. Basically, between HL5/FO2/TD3 you need to pick two
There are plenty of options beyond that but there tend to be some heats that are pretty stable options starting out. I can't imagine doing a 32 without like UC MM EM3 etc
dreamy quest
doesn't FO help a lot with TD?
shy plinth
I mean sure but I think generally speaking TD isn't a limiting factor unless you're piling on a lot of slow pacts
Almost always people come in here and say that they can't do TD3 and they have like JS3 DC on
dreamy quest
and correct if im wrong but some things like Jolted end up doing more damage with fo2 no?
since it comes to effect faster
shy plinth
I... suppose so? I wouldn't really plan on that particular interaction being relevant
I don't think I'd factor that into my choice to go with or without FO - it's just a question of whether you want that heat or if you want to get the heat from somewhere else
dreamy quest
ok, let me rephrase calling fo free. its not free as it needs adjustment compared to other pacts. but if someone willing to invest time fo (esp fo1) can be considered "free"
shy plinth
It's a worthwhile adjustment and necessary if you want to go past 32 - but it's def an adjustment
I wouldn't want someone to throw it on and struggle with the change and feel like they're doing something wrong, yknow?
dreamy quest
yeah yeah
i had to accept a long run of losses and hard wins to adjust to both fos especially 2
shy plinth
Asterius is like SO much harder
dreamy quest
i still cant deal with power couple on fo2
shy plinth
They're not messing around
dreamy quest
hitting both with Meg is so hard
broken echo
zeus attack is usually not the move on hestia
aphrodite or artemis are better
Approval process since hestia is not a very needy aspect
hestia can basically do anything except DC2
peak hestia heat
shy plinth
You really don't want DC with hestia
I honestly wouldn't overthink it too much - if this is just a push to 32, the typical pacts will work well and hestia is more resilient to whiffing on builds since your base weapon effect is so powerful early
You can tank CF a bit more than most weapons but you're still gonna want to just clear quickly without getting hit much
You can AP but man AP is rough sometimes lol
The emotional damage is rarely worth the heat unless you're going above 32
HL5 LC4 CF2 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3 is the most typical first time 32 pact
I personally prefer HL1 CF0 FO2 but that's up to you
Would recommend starting with aph or Athena probably
broken echo
Demeter cast lowkey sucks and you want to build into the attack for hestia
shy plinth
If you want a duo to build around I'd do deadly reversal with Athena and Artemis
But you don't really need to with hestia
Get a chunky boon on the attack and hit people with it
Hestia is a two button build
You reload and you shoot
Other stuff is a bonus but not necessary
Aphrodite on attack is also quite nice, it's a ton of damage
Make sure your mirror is set to fiery presence too
You'll one shot a lot of enemies, which is why DC is not the play on hestia
Stubborn ye
Bananas has a good mirror outline
As long as you have stubborn, fam fave and dark foresight you're fine
forest token
also a decent build section for hestia so you can follow that lmao
forest token
what not studying for finals does to a mf
shy plinth
Certainly you now have a decree in Hadesology
sly cove
personally i used dd + lc1 until i think like my 3rd or 4th
if u struggle with dad then thats the easier way to go imo
easier to just reset more early than die more to dad
esp cuz aspho is short and fairly easy
but personal preference
and skillset
believe my first pact was like hl3 lc1 cf1 em3 bp2 mm uc fo2 td3?
might be wrong
and i did use beo i think
shy plinth
That seems way harder to me than lc4+sd
sly cove
gives u more insurance on dad which was what i struggled with the most
shy plinth
Like fo3+td3+hl3 already is a lot for a 32
But sure if we're talking specifically dad
sly cove
i think i started speedrunning a bit before so i was already used to fo2 td3
shy plinth
Though tbh I'd rather mitigate that with sd+athena
shy plinth
I mean sure but we're already talking about resetting more
If the goal is just to get a skelly statue then there's a plan there that doesn't involve learning fo and hl at the same time
sly cove
fair
shy plinth
But to your point with a first time 32 you can kinda just do whatever as long as you practice
sly cove
i cant search for it now cuz deleted acct
shy plinth
I mean if you were already speedrunning it makes sense
sly cove
yeah
i mean i wasnt getting anywhere close to good times
but loke
i had the speedrun mindset already
shy plinth
It's not what I'd expect to work for most people but it does look like a runner pact
Sure
shy plinth
Well the image is in there somewhere
shy plinth
But that's 5 years of scrolling
shy plinth
You could filter by date maybe
shy plinth
Terrible
sly cove
actually my first 32 mightve been eris
i do remember having an eris 32 with tart zeus legendary
whatever ig just lost to time now
shy plinth
Oh no I found my first 32
Twitter
What an abomination
I feel like the years I've spent in this channel are atonement to help others not make my mistakes
sly cove
god mfin damn
quiet acorn
but my old account got deleted
How
sly cove
golga 😭
quiet acorn
sly cove
are u still in jndex
quiet acorn
Yea
dreamy quest
im slowly building up to 25 heat but im facing an issue when it comes to decision making. need to find a guide of the optimal choices to make in room/reward selection and late game keepsake
dreamy quest
what would be the verdict on jury summons vs calisthenics program for room speed clear?
left prism
what would be the verdict on jury summons vs calisthenics program for room speed...
Js is like slightly less harmful I think but also just avoid both
Assuming your goal is like 32h
dreamy quest
with Js is cleared 21 minutes with CP 23 on a similar aphro Poseidon build
but before Elysium i had 2 stacks of the item that gives bonus to undamaged foes so i think that helped with time clear
lvl 6 aphro on attack + undamaged bonus i was 1 hitting almost everything except the big carts and butterfly orbs
but tbf hammers wise this was my worst one yet. i got explosive fire and the +6 ammo hammer
shy plinth
I would basically never pick calisthenics program
Js more impactful than it seems but not as bad as cp. The pinned 32 guide is really good and there's also a sheet right underneath it that shows diff heat escalation options to get to 32
Keepsake is usually just god keepsake->diff god keepsake->acorn->acorn
forest token
im slowly building up to 25 heat but im facing an issue when it comes to decisio...
for room decisions, prioritize gods that will help your build. basically, the 2 god keepsakes you want to use that run. some supporting gods are better than others ofc, but shouldn't matter too much who you pick at the end of the day
for stuff like hearts vs poms, pick poms early in the run in tart/aspho because that's when you can guarantee poms going to the boon you want. you also don't really need the hp yet until you get to ely, where you'll have a chance to get a lot of hearts
for what boon option to pick, just follow a good guide and you'll be fine
surreal heron
im slowly building up to 25 heat but im facing an issue when it comes to decisio...
what aspect are you using?
quiet acorn
Heatia
surreal heron
Makes sense.
orchid timber
is there a list of pact abbreviations anywhere? i am so lost reading this without having the pact actively open in front of me
strong palm
is there a list of pact abbreviations anywhere? i am so lost reading this withou...
em is extreme measures and ri is routine inspections
extreme measures is harder boss variant & routine inspection is less mirror upgrades
strong palm
ofc
sly cove
is there a list of pact abbreviations anywhere? i am so lost reading this withou...
jusr get infected with hades brainrot
i havent played h1 in actually over a year
still all the abbrevs in my head
or most
orchid timber
jusr get infected with hades brainrot
working on it working on it
quiet acorn
I don't know what the abbreviations mean I just know what they are
sly cove
I don't know what the abbreviations mean I just know what they are
real
wtf does cf stand for
sly cove
yeah +40% shop prices per tier
shy plinth
Convenience fee
left prism
I don't know what the abbreviations mean I just know what they are
Lmao?
cursive portal
surreal heron
Kinda funny considering you need to go through the pact screen to start a run
let's be real, none of us spend more than half a second on that screen when grinding :/
broken echo
True
dreamy quest
what aspect are you using?
mostly focusing on hestia but also playing Achilles arthur and all the bows
dreamy quest
HL1
LC2
CF1
EM3
BP2
MM
FO2
TD2
27 heat now im struggling to complete a run.
my highest run was 25 heat with the same as above but no HL1 and LC1 instead of 2 but had Jury summons
not getting comfy with HL1+LC2
shy plinth
Are you using SD? And have you recorded any gameplay?
Can be helpful for people to watch a run
surreal heron
HL1
LC2
CF1
EM3
BP2
MM
FO2
TD2
27 heat now im struggling to complete a run.
Would probably put underworlds customs on as well
(since that's the easy one)
what in particular is killing you?
shy plinth
Yeah, UC is def key
If you're not used to Forced Overtime yet AND you're trying to learn LC4+SD, I would probably learn those separately
I'm generally not a big believer in partial LC - you're either on the stubborn defiance train or you're not. Have you been able to succeed at a lower heat with LC4+SD?
dreamy quest
Are you using SD? And have you recorded any gameplay?
nope always use DD
shy plinth
Ey grats
dreamy quest
what in particular is killing you?
i did 2 bow runs and one spear run and em3 was really hard not to lose at least 1 dd on
shy plinth
The general approach at 32+ is specifically to switch to stubborn defiance and use LC4
Bananas covers it pretty thoroughly in the guide
dreamy quest
but it didn't help that both bow runs i got twin shot and made it harder to engage enemies from a safe distance
but yeah hestia is just something else. 18 minutes clear without losing any dd on my first 32 run
while other weapons i was struggling in 20-27 heat range
shy plinth
Now time for more 32s 😉
dreamy quest
gonna try to do 32 heat with all weapons then maybe shoot for higher heats
shy plinth
A good approach
Would definitely recommend reviewing bananas' guide, there's some good stuff in there
Once you learn LC4+SD it opens up a lot
dreamy quest
HL3
LC2
CF2
JS1
EM3
BP2
MM
UC
FO2
TD2
That was my pact
shy plinth
Wow you did it the hard way
Doing this with DDs and adding more enemies that deal more damage AND move faster
dreamy quest
Once you learn LC4+SD it opens up a lot
i should start testing SD because i rarely ever die more than once at any stage but i like the comfort of DD
shy plinth
Dying every room without cost is also quite comfy, it's really just about cleaning up boss fights
But if you're already winning the boss fights then that seems ez
Can always take backup defiances with athena too
If you pop your stubborn defiance and then get an athena dd, your stubborn refills on top of it
dreamy quest
im mainly struggling with 2 fights em3 heros and power couple in asphodel
sly cove
learn ur megs
dreamy quest
hades fight i sometimes aggro him a lot and end up losing more than one DD but i guess i could change my approach
sly cove
helps a lot
shy plinth
There are two distinct directions to tweak this pact that would make things feel a good bit easier - can either lean into FO or HL, both would let you drop something painful
dreamy quest
the first stage of hades i fight i just get frustrated a lot
shy plinth
TD3 is the next big thing to learn here
TD3 and LC4 makes the pact super flexible
But for now just bask in the victory, good job getting your statue
dreamy quest
There are two distinct directions to tweak this pact that would make things feel...
tbf i should have went with TD3 given that usually finish under 20 minutes but i was afraid Jury summons would make me miss the 20 minutes mark
shy plinth
That's why we pick TD and not JS 😉
With TD3 you could've brought HL down a couple points or dropped CF
Move with purpose and play the way you normally do and you'll totally be fine
dreamy quest
That's why we pick TD and not JS 😉
yeah makes sense. i was afraid CF2 would hurt a lot because i like buying from shops but got lucky with lots of treasure troves that had money in them as well as the money boosting Poseidon boon
shy plinth
I do think CF is actually super impactful
My preferred pact is CF0
Basically anything that slows us down sucks
EM3 TD3 MM BP2 UC LC4(+SD) HL1 FO2
That's my fave
dreamy quest
shops can be such a clutch and i like when i take the Charon keepsake at Elysium and buy lots of wel items
dreamy quest
learn ur megs
yeah i should learn how to hit the power couple with meg
also em3 heros harder to hit with meg roundstart
dreamy quest
without em3 i usually dash between them and summon
but when i do that on em3 they don't line up perfectly
shy plinth
sly cove
also em3 heros harder to hit with meg roundstart
heroes meg is super easy
just tap up -> meg
power couple is a little hard to meg i think idr
i believe she always hits 90 degrees from where ur facing?
dreamy quest
just tap up -> meg
no need to dash between them?
sly cove
no need to dash between them?
nah
power couple i think u just bait smasher then meg asap while hitting both
shy plinth
The direction you are facing is perpendicular to the direction meg will go
So if you tap up on the controller, she will go left to right and should hit both heroes, em3 or not
shy plinth
It is not, you can tap up and press the button and hit em every time
dreamy quest
i am truly carried by hestia tried doing 32 runs with every other weapon and no luck yet
shy plinth
What pact are you running?
dreamy quest
HL3
LC2
CF2
JS1
EM3
BP2
MM
UC
FO2
TD2
That was my pact
i tried this
also tried switching to TD3 and reducing CF and LC a bit
shy plinth
My experience is that the meta pacts were worth learning - I had a similar experience as you where my first 32 felt like an outlier (and I had a HORRENDOUS pact)
I went back and learned SD+LC4 and FO2, had to level up my skills and work at it for a bit, but then got there on every weapon and eventually every aspect
Took a learning curve tho
dreamy quest
should give SD + LC4 a try
shy plinth
It is important to learn I think
You have a lot of the hard pacts already figured out and doing both FO2 and that much HL is challenging
SD+LC4 will let you cut jury summons and cut down on hard labor and even convenience fee
dreamy quest
Hades first stage is giving me cancer on TD3
with SD i got zeus and zag bow to Hades but i keep running out of time
coward dad and his coward darkness
shy plinth
What boons and builds are you targeting? Sounds like a damage output issue
dreamy quest
with Zeus i was going for ME but i could never get it that run and with Zag bow i was going Aretmis crit build
having bad luck with builds is not helping
shy plinth
Hrm I should probs ask what your mirror setup is
strong palm
with SD i got zeus and zag bow to Hades but i keep running out of time
zeus attack on zag bow?
shy plinth
I assume that was "zeus shield and zag bow" in separate runs
left prism
with Zeus i was going for ME but i could never get it that run and with Zag bow ...
Have you done zeus^2
Or just tried ME
dreamy quest
Have you done zeus^2
what's that?
left prism
Zeus shield zeus special
dreamy quest
for some reason im having no luck with ME
dreamy quest
Zeus shield zeus special
ah yeah i tried that before is fun. i wanted a meme build of Athena on special
left prism
Fair
dreamy quest
was going fine but not getting ME made my dps slow
i had less than 2 minutes to beat hades and just crumbled
left prism
moment
dreamy quest
but its been like 7 tried with different aspects and game won't just give me ME
yet whenever i do CoL i get it
maybe i should try Zeus shield + CoL
shy plinth
What's your mirror?
dreamy quest
fiery pres
dark regen
sd
greater reflex
boiling blood
stygian soulà
deep pockets
Thick skin
Fam fav
Dark foresight
Gods pride
Fated persuasion
left prism
If ME is hating on you that much I'd prob sacrifice the epic chance for doom/hermes and swap to legacy
shy plinth
Yeah, otherwise nothing stands out but if you're hunting for ME legacy has to be better
dreamy quest
If ME is hating on you that much I'd prob sacrifice the epic chance for doom/her...
i tried that. thing is im struggling to fill my main boons
shy plinth
What keepsake are you taking in biome 1?
dreamy quest
last try with ME i could doom on attack just before the heros fight
dreamy quest
What keepsake are you taking in biome 1?
god > god > acorn/charon/black shawl > acorn/tooth
shy plinth
Are you starting with athena or ares?
I usually start with athena but better players than me like ares
dreamy quest
usually athena because divine dash can help clear faster
shy plinth
Understandable, my argument is usually "we need two athena boons and only one ares boon"
left prism
If you are doing zeus ME I'd prob start ares just to have dmg
dreamy quest
for Zeus ME doom goes on special?
left prism
Kinda rough otherwise if you don't get explosive or charged shot
shy plinth
Yeah I guess tart can be really slow
left prism
for Zeus ME doom goes on special?
Can be either, special has slightly higher base dmg
shy plinth
Feels like they'd play pretty differently tbh
I imagine if you go doom on attack you end up just playing scuffed fists after ME is up
left prism
Tho I think people like special more?
shy plinth
I mean if you're good at zeus positioning special makes sense
dreamy quest
deflect special can be funny thats why i pick it
can sometimes just cover my back from all projectiles while i take care of the others
shy plinth
Sure though theoretically we don't have to worry about projectiles because we have ME and the bad guys are dead
dreamy quest
ok my luck since my last 32 clear has been abysmal
i got to Elysium with one Zeus boon despie having his keepsake
shy plinth
Are you filling your god pool quickly?
dreamy quest
nope i dont remember the last time i filled my god pool
shy plinth
So just to be clear, are you passing by gods routinely in the first two biomes before you have 4 of them picked?
dreamy quest
i always pick god rooms unless its a god i wanna avoid
shy plinth
Yeah, the question is how often are you avoiding
If you have less than 4 gods you have a much lower chance of seeing more boons for the thing you want
Because the game can keep rolling new ones until you have 4
dreamy quest
so i need to fill them asap?
shy plinth
Once you have 4 different gods selected, the game will only show you boons from those 4
dreamy quest
many times im getting gods that would end up offering a duo i dont want
shy plinth
What kind of duo are you trying to avoid?
Generally when you're targeting a build, you're only targeting like one duo and the rest is just a bonus, right?
shy plinth
Sure. So what kind of duo offer are we dodging?
dreamy quest
heart rend + col probably only double duo boon i ever tried
shy plinth
And silly question, but you know how duo prerequisites work, right?
Just making sure, I'm sure you do
dreamy quest
yeah i do. keep check the codex
shy plinth
Cool
You'd be shocked at how many people do not know
Generally speaking, I think you would want your god pool filled by the first boon in asphodel, which should ideally match your second keepsake
Every time it rolls a boon door, if your god pool is filled with 4 gods already, it's 25% to be a specific god you're already playing and 100% to complement your existing boons
if your god pool is unfilled, it's 12.5% to be a specific god you're already playing and up to 37.5% to complement your existing boons (up to 3/8)
shy plinth
You can always dodge duo prerequisites and you're trying to target a specific duo anyway
So like, if you're going ME and you already have athena and you're keepsaking ares in asphodel, does it really matter who the other two are
At that point there's not much difference between artemis and dio, they're just gonna fill out support boon slots anyway
Some are clearly better than others but the question is "does it matter" - and ME in particular really just needs to stack athena+ares as quickly as possible
sly cove
for Zeus ME doom goes on special?
think so
dreamy quest
ok this is my ego asking
can i option select saying that hestia is hard
or am I really hard carried by that thing
shy plinth
Are you back in the hall of hades?
If yes, can you go to the admin chamber?
Look up how many runs you've done with hestia compared to other aspects
dreamy quest
| Aspect | Times used | Clears | Best time | Best heat |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Achilles | 21 | 11 | 15:19 | 16 |
| Hera | 15 | 9 | 18:31 | 16 |
| Hestia | 15 | 14 | 16:38 | 32 |
| Arthur | 15 | 11 | 18:17 | 19 |
| Beowulf | 12 | 5 | 17:43 | 10 |
| Gilgamesh | 9 | 6 | 19:30 | 16 |
| Zeus | 9 | 6 | 22:26 | 16 |
| Nemesis | 9 | 4 | 18:20 | 16 |
| Bow Zagr | 8 | 4 | 22:06 | 19 |
oh i thought discord formats markdown tables
shy plinth
Interesting, I would've bet that Hestia was your most used
Generally speaking I think the most OP aspect is practice
Hestia does have a lower learning curve overall and ends up being pretty strong, but I don't know how many of these runs were when you weren't pushing heat
dreamy quest
I got my first 8, 16 and 32 on Hestia all done first run
shy plinth
It is a good aspect but I wouldn't call it "OP"
broken echo
yeah same
shy plinth
I guess it's more a question of what you're doing that works with Hestia that doesn't translate to what you're doing with other aspects
dreamy quest
I was doing 8 with every weapon and jumped to 16 with Hestia with FO2 and cleared first tiem
same with 32 heat
shy plinth
Typically when people discuss strongest aspects I'd say Eris comes up top of the list
Zeus if you're really good
Beo if you're a Beo cultist
broken echo
well, most damage is taken melee, and hestia can play way more ranged than any other aspect
dreamy quest
I think that Hestia has a very mechanically repetitive cycle makes it work better for me?
broken echo
doesn't need to charge a shot like the bow
shy plinth
I think it's clear that hestia caters to the way you're currently playing
But that doesn't mean that you're only winning because you're using an aspect that makes the game easier
It doesn't
It just gels with what you're doing
dreamy quest
probably same reason why I do best with Zag bow because I can just loop Dash > Dash > Perfect shot
broken echo
But that doesn't mean that you're only winning because you're using an aspect th...
ehhh, i think this is a bigger factor than you might think
shy plinth
On Hestia? I mean the learning curve is lower
broken echo
hestia is 2 buttons to clear the whole game
shy plinth
But it's very easy to die with hestia equipped
dreamy quest
but we can factor that Hestia can almost work with any boon compared to other aspects that can fail without the right hammer/boon
broken echo
it really isn't. you're far out of range of most things in the game that can damage you
shy plinth
It makes sense that it allows you to focus more on the heat conditions since the weapon muscle memory is pretty dialed in
broken echo
but we can factor that Hestia can almost work with any boon compared to other as...
this depends on the heat
dreamy quest
this depends on the heat
at least up to 32. Hestia just works
shy plinth
Yeah I mean if we're talking 32 as long as you adapt to whatever boons you get it doesn't feel like build limitation is a major factor
There isn't pressure on your boons at 32 the way there is at higher heats
broken echo
stronger aspects can work with random boons at high heat too
shy plinth
Just ask Retrash
dreamy quest
my ideal Hestia is rocket bomb + the one that makes it shoot 5 rockets or rocket bomb + any attack hammer
but I never had Hestia fail because I got the wrong hammer or boon
shy plinth
I don't think there are as many "wrong" choices as you might think
broken echo
at least up to 32. Hestia just works
anything works at 32 tbh
shy plinth
It's just about adapting
Hestia clearly aligns with what you're doing and how you're playing and it's more forgiving for sure
But def not OP
dreamy quest
like for example, I struggle with Achellis without flurry
shy plinth
I mean it's certainly harder without flurry
dreamy quest
at least up to 32 Hestia felt the most fool proof for me
shy plinth
Have you watched any vods of people doing runs with aspects you're struggling with?
You can see how they play and how it differs from how you're playing
dreamy quest
I watched Duunk0 weapon guides but thats about it.
shy plinth
I would recommend watching vods on the heat sheet for aspects you're curious about
dreamy quest
Will watch more runs later but im currently having issue with the internet no DSL and on limited mobile plan so cant watch a lot
broken echo
duunk0 is pretty meh as far as guides go
shy plinth
Those are quite old at this point I think
broken echo
look at WRs if you want the current optimal way to play aspects
dreamy quest
im following KMBR and leereamsnyder guides
dreamy quest
duunk0 is pretty meh as far as guides go
i see. I like duunk0 because before his run he goes in depth explaining the weapon and build
shy plinth
What do the runs look like as far as execution?
I think there's likely an overfocus on boons here when this is probs a practice and execution angle
broken echo
im following KMBR and leereamsnyder guides
the latter is pretty good, though we've developed new techniques that aren't included in the guide
broken echo
i see. I like duunk0 because before his run he goes in depth explaining the weap...
yeah, sometimes the builds just don't take advantage of the aspect though
dreamy quest
is there any other youtuber that goes on depth explaining the weapon/build?
because thats what drew me into watching duunk0
broken echo
i mean he's probably a good start, but written guides tend to be updated more frequently and better quality
That's a compendium for most aspects, and you can ask here about builds and stuff
shy plinth
Oh man some old school stuff here
I haven't read Lili's eris guide in years
For what it's worth, I know that video is tough right now but I"d really strongly recommend watching runs and not focusing as much on the boons and builds as the actual gameplay
dreamy quest
https://www.speedrun.com/hades/guides/1i726
oh ok thanks. i prefer written guides given the internet problems i have rn
shy plinth
Positioning, movement, attack windows
broken echo
there's an amazing hestia guide on there that goes into the damage cycle
highly recommend
shy plinth
Boons and builds are nice and you want to work on that too of course
The Zyruvias one?
Jeez I can't belive they got a 5:17, nutty
broken echo
yeah he's a gamer
dreamy quest
btw any reason its easier to cycle reload > dash > dash > cast > special > attack when special is rocket bomb?
broken echo
you're stuck in the targeting animation for longer
but as long as you're not holding down your special button, it should be fine
dreamy quest
but as long as you're not holding down your special button, it should be fine
without rocket bomb if i dash cast special, the special doesnt aim in front of me for some reason
i have to delay the special by a tiny bit
ivory drum
Jeez I can't belive they got a 5:17, nutty
Zyru actually my Goat ngl
shy plinth
This run is ridiculous
dreamy quest
how viable is arthur aspect on 32 heat?
shy plinth
There are no unviable aspects at 32
broken echo
every aspect is viable until 56
shy plinth
Some are harder than others, but all of them are doable with minimal/no pact modification
dreamy quest
i see. because with arthur and F02 i struggled doing the whole attack sequence and just stuck to doing dash strikes
on FO1 its not much of a problem
shy plinth
Just about learning what works and adapting to both the aspect and your boons
dreamy quest
hard not to get interrupted with FO2 especially in Elysium
shy plinth
You can adapt your sequence - dash strikes will only get you so far and arthur lets you stagger your hits with attack->dash->attack->dash->attack
You can buffer the attacks in between dashes, especially for the big sweep
Lets you get decent mobillity along with big aoe damage when enemies are clustered
dreamy quest
buffer as in do dashes in between the sequence?
shy plinth
Yeah
dreamy quest
ah yeah, that i struggled with on FO2
i fell in love with Arthur because its kinda similar to dodge offset from Bayonetta, where you can dash between attack sequences and continue the combo
shy plinth
Yeah, it's a really fun aspect, I've always liked it
Unfortunately doesn't scale well into 50+ heat but at 32 you can still rock faces with it
dreamy quest
but with FO2 im having a hard time to do the sequence without getting interupted
shy plinth
Will take practice
dreamy quest
so far aside from Hestia my best 32 runs were with Zeus shield and Zag bow
maybe i try focusing on those two
without death defiance i need to readjust how i face Hades tho.
shy plinth
Sure, ultimately I bet you'll find that after enough time at 32 with a stable pact - especially once you've adapted to SD+LC4 and FO2 - that the repetition and practice will be the thing that makes the difference
dreamy quest
because im too used to sacrifice a DD or two just to score extra hits on the first phase
shy plinth
Yep, gotta break that habit. I remember doing that too
dreamy quest
one thing about Hades fight 2nd phase, I dont feel confident going into it without an extra dash
if i have 3 dashes i can take the fight easily but when I dont i end up losing more health than I should
shy plinth
What are you getting hit by?
dreamy quest
with 3 dashes I always dash into hades and can use 2 dashes to get out of his 3 hit swing or his thrust
dreamy quest
What are you getting hit by?
its more of an issue that I cant afford to get hit that much on stubborn defiance
shy plinth
Right, so what's hitting you?
dreamy quest
the thrust + skull shoot i struggle with if i dont have divine dash and if im too close
hard to react to when im near him
and the 3 hit sequence i have trouble with melee builds without extra dash
shy plinth
When he does the spear thrust, do you dash towards him or away
dreamy quest
when i have 3+ dashes I always dash in to score a hit and dash away from the sequence but without extra dashes I end up eating the 3rd hit
shy plinth
Sounds like dashing in for the hit isn't the play then
But also, can you dodge getting hit by a sweep or a thrust by dashing towards him when he acts
dreamy quest
i should look up how to deal with his first phase
and how top players do it
because his first phase usually ends up wasting my acorn
hestia and bow aside i usually end up wasting 1 dd first phase and 1 dd 2nd phase but i clear 2nd phase faster
sly cove
because his first phase usually ends up wasting my acorn
eh thats fine no?
at worst just roll into patty/athena
forest token
because his first phase usually ends up wasting my acorn
first phase is generally considered more difficult than the 2nd phase since it's a bit more random, so using all the acorn in the first phase isn't the worst thing in the world
obv better if you use it minimally ofc but it happens sometimes lmao
weak meadow
Do people generally play on Hell Mode when trying for heat over 32?
broken echo
Do people generally play on Hell Mode when trying for heat over 32?
hell mode is usually taken after 50 but it's really personal preference
ranged weapons can take it earlier, whereas melee may want to keep it on more
weak meadow
Great, thank you both.
I just got back into the game (with silly goals). Hell Mode has been a fun challenge but I think I'll switch to a different save file as I rebuild my skills.
broken echo
Great, thank you both.
I just got back into the game (with silly goals). Hell ...
yeah that's fair. keep in mind that few goals in this game are truly silly/impossible
upper juniper
Do people generally play on Hell Mode when trying for heat over 32?
For 32 heat it forces some pacts that just make the game worse
for no reason
all to get one extra heat from personal liability? Not worth it
sly cove
no pl is nice too
south violet
get the hammers + don't die 
forest token
After getting a good build and leaving asphodel it's kinda just "don't die" at that point lmao
Take acorn or tooth if you're concerned about dying in normal rooms
Pray you find patty
strong palm
for dem fists, is the rotation the same or just dash, dash strike, dash upper, repeat?
broken echo
for dem fists, is the rotation the same or just dash, dash strike, dash upper, r...
Depends on your build
strong palm
I've been taking pos dash
broken echo
Yeah dash strikes then
strong palm
deal, thanks boss
grim crater
When is a good time to start doing higher heat escape attempts?
quiet acorn
whenever you find it interesting enough
broken echo
When is a good time to start doing higher heat escape attempts?
As soon as you want
broken echo
whenever you find it interesting enough
Also what time zone are you even in??
quiet acorn
🤨
grim crater
As soon as you want
Hmmmmm
broken echo
Hmmmmm
It’s nice to have a maxed file for higher heats but you can/should start climbing whenever you want
shy plinth
When is a good time to start doing higher heat escape attempts?
I'd recommend chasing statues as you level your weapons - get the 8 and the 16 and see how they feel. Try out different pacts and mirror options, do your prophecies, unlock and level keepsakes and companions
wet furnace
Picking a statue milestone and just repeating it until your bounties are all caught up isn’t a bad idea
It’s when people try to move up 1 heat value at a time that they pick awful pact options
shy plinth
I mean, they don't have to
We have a great 32 heat guide AND a progression spreadsheet for how to work your way up from 1 to 32
It does usually work out that way though
serene nova
I'm referencing the pinned Banana guide but the pure white text black background hurts to look at after few seconds, could the author change the pure black background to something more like the dark grey default Discord background?
shy plinth
It's just gdocs right? Should be extensions to dark mode it
serene nova
well it is dark mode, just too high contrast, especially for those with astigmatism. I guess I can make custom css
upper juniper
well it is dark mode, just too high contrast, especially for those with astigmat...
I was about to but if you’ve already done so
broken echo
I'm referencing the pinned Banana guide but the pure white text black background...
You could make a copy and change it too
forest token
I'm referencing the pinned Banana guide but the pure white text black background...
I just changed it but I'm on mobile so idk if it's that different lol
Is it good now?
serene nova
Is it good now?
Thanks, a lot easier on the eyes now
strong palm
i've been doing this for monodash nem, and was wondering if this is ideal? https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/940361343180091432/1322669832868597771/clip.mp4?ex=6771b7c6&is=67706646&hm=d15839a895dcae5f101200c728240ed7fa813a2e1e615a46c904330b4188ecb7&
i cant special right after the dashstrike and i was able to cram just a standard attack in
strong palm
it's good though?
ivory drum
Do Scratch tech I dare you
strong palm
Do Scratch tech I dare you
I'm listening
ivory drum
It is a high heat sword tech that runs world splitter with athena attack and Mort summon
It beat 56 iirc
strong palm
I'm going to go check it out, cheers
quiet acorn
more of a strat/build over tech
sly cove
i've been doing this for monodash nem, and was wondering if this is ideal? https...
im pretty sure u want to dash strike back and forth and special every 4 or when u run out of dashes
oh
monodash i cant read
strong palm
no worries
sly cove
nvm ignore me
forest token
Why monodash tho lmao
strong palm
Why monodash tho lmao
I dunno, don't want to half-ass it and I have an excuse to play more
If I do a lower heat, then I won't have any motivation to rerun it on harder pacts
surreal heron
Why monodash tho lmao
@south violet because monodash is the most fun way to play the game : P
surreal heron
i've been doing this for monodash nem, and was wondering if this is ideal? https...
That's perfect. For super high heat (50+) I'd recommend getting extra dashes though for survivibility.
south violet
I'm the wrong person to ping for non-shield monodash high heat
scratch is the specialist in that department
ashen garnet
It beat 56 iirc
Threw to dad a few times without clearing once 
might grind it again in the foreseeable future, but it's very technical and Ely kills 75% of runs which make it there
ashen garnet
It is a high heat sword tech that runs world splitter with athena attack and Mor...
Works better with zagsword innate atk speed bonus, but I remember both posh and Alex cleared 50 pos/nem/zagsword with relative ease 
Not a sword main myself but can defo help with monodash and Mort summon considerations
upper juniper
i've been doing this for monodash nem, and was wondering if this is ideal? https...
I’m pretty sure it is, it’s just monodash nem so it’s questionable to start with outside of FF
broken echo
Cursed slash nem with RR could go hard
upper juniper
Cursed slash nem with RR could go hard
World splitter nem w/ RR 
south violet
Works better with zagsword innate atk speed bonus, but I remember both posh and ...
No I never did sword 50 rr
Many many many attempts but never got it. All of my 50 clears except for the non-beo shields had greater reflex.
Did 45 rr possword though, and cleared a 56 zagsword rr savestate scratch gave me
sly cove
what crit rate does rr + nem get u
quiet acorn
rr doesnt affect crit rate
ivory drum
Its damage
south violet
50% extra dodge and damage for a few seconds
ashen garnet
Ruthless Reflex: +50% global damage (Rush Delivery-like) and +50% dodge chance for 2s
quiet acorn
Ruthless Reflex: Upon activation, grants a significant boost to your offensive and defensive capabilities by increasing global damage by 50%, similar to the effect of Rush Delivery, while also enhancing your agility with a 50% dodge chance for 2 seconds.
sly cove
thanks i needed someone to tell me 5 times
upper juniper
thanks i needed someone to tell me 5 times
Given only 4 people told u
Ruthless reflex only boosts your global damage additive and dodge chance temporarily after a nearmiss, not your crit chance
broken echo
thanks i needed someone to tell me 5 times
Ruthless reflex doesn’t boost crit chance btw. It only boosts damage and dodge chance.
strong palm
Ruthless reflex adds a 50% ADDED DAMAGE TO ALL SOURCES!! and, get this! A 50% CHANCE TO EVADE ATTACKS!!! All of this lasts for 2 BIG ONES! 
strong palm
I’m pretty sure it is, it’s just monodash nem so it’s questionable to start with...
I completely forgot about ff, as soon aspect of charged shot brought it up I watched a bit
oak crater
thanks i needed someone to tell me 5 times
did you get an answer yet? ruthless reflex boosts damage and evade chance after a near miss by 50% btw
broken echo
did you get an answer yet? ruthless reflex boosts damage and evade chance after ...
To clarify, ruthless reflex gives you +50% global damage and dodge change
hearty dawn
hey guys I forgot what ruthless reflex does can someone tell me
quiet acorn
We never got around to figuring it out
strong palm
It boosts crit rate I think
quiet acorn
That makes sense yea
severe arch
Got a question: is Ruthless Dash considered a valid choice for endgame play? With all the extra stuff turned on like the extra boss moves, can you reasonably play with one dash only? I feel like the final boss is not much of a problem once you get used to it, haven't seen his extra moves yet though. (Also, there are some weapon aspects that give you other means to move far away quickly, ignore those. 😉 ) Or to frame my question differently: should I keep practicing ruthless dash or is it a waste of time, since it is no longer viable at high heat levels?
broken echo
Got a question: is Ruthless Dash considered a valid choice for endgame play? Wit...
RR is very viable at high heat but mostly on shields
I prefer to play with RR personally, since 50% global is also pretty big
So definitely practice monodash play
Eventually at higher heat, you’ll be taking away the second dash/RR altogether so it’s good to practice for that
Though RR’s dodge chance can lead to bad habits forming with the dodge chance
severe arch
Eventually at higher heat, you’ll be taking away the second dash/RR altogether s...
Ohh, forgot about that. I guess that makes my question kinda obsolete, lol
severe arch
Though RR’s dodge chance can lead to bad habits forming with the dodge chance
You mean becoming too greedy and risk-taking, going for the +50%? Why would that be a bad practice though? Wouldn't it make you more precise?
broken echo
Ohh, forgot about that. I guess that makes my question kinda obsolete, lol
Only until 62
broken echo
You mean becoming too greedy and risk-taking, going for the +50%? Why would that...
The dodge chance stops the negative feedback of taking damage from half of the hits you take
severe arch
Sorry, made a typo, *bad practice
broken echo
So it can lead you to not realize when your positioning is bad since you’re not punished for it
severe arch
Ohh
Okay, interesting
I guess, both dashes are bad for practice then in their own way, right?
Haha
I guess I'll stick with ruthless dash for now, thank you!
broken echo
I guess, both dashes are bad for practice then in their own way, right?
Meh
Some aspects only really clear super high heat with +dashes
severe arch
Cause of the timer?
severe arch
Monodash em4 is hard for non shields
Well, okay, I'll probably find out at higher heat levels why it's unsafe 😁
broken echo
Yeah a lot of it is that once you get to 55+, the game is basically the hardest it is and your build is the worst it can be
So everything takes a long time to die and had a high change of killing you in 1-2 hits
quiet acorn
.
For some reason I can't message this channel on pc
Text messages say 'this image cannot be uploaded'
broken echo
broken echo
Well, okay, I'll probably find out at higher heat levels why it's unsafe 😁
Like, take any ely room or the em4 fight, and imagine fighting it with one dash and no shield
BP2 FO2 HL5 HS can give some nasty combos
Fun, but still nasty
severe arch
Like, take any ely room or the em4 fight, and imagine fighting it with one dash ...
Well, I'm only at EM3, so that's why I have yet to find out 😉
broken echo
If you plan to push above 50, I would recommend using em4 pretty early just to get used to it
“Free” 4 heat
severe arch
Yeah, that's what I'm already doing, I'm activating all the game-changing modifiers first, just to practice
severe arch
Oh no, why are you scaring me like that?? 😎
severe arch
I can't wait 😭
ashen garnet
You encounter lots of finicky dash situations while playing monodash, even more on non shield and on kbm, but it's a good alternative if you can make the most out of the 50% damage (am running EM3 RI3 these days and been running EM3 RI2 RR before)
severe arch
You encounter lots of finicky dash situations while playing monodash, even more ...
I'm not really having any trouble on EM3 so far, but I'm also still on really low heat levels, so might be related to that
Still gotta go more actively for the 50% bonus though
shy plinth
Generally speaking, two dashes is much more frequently taken and tends to be safer
Ruthless dash makes more sense for super high level players that are able to best take advantage of the bonus while leveraging their extensive knowledge and mechanical skill to avoid damage
Is it possible to use ruthless dash on lower heats and/or while you're learning? Yes, but it's def harder
The only exception is gilga
forest token
Ruthless is a more common take at high heats mainly on shield
Could use it on others if you're Scratch tho lmao
severe arch
Generally speaking, two dashes is much more frequently taken and tends to be saf...
I guess I'll continue using Ruthless Dash until I run into issues while increasing the heat. It's gotten much more comfortable already and it makes the game less hectic. I feel like the enemies' moves are generally designed to be avoidable with one perfectly timed and positioned dash
upper juniper
I guess I'll continue using Ruthless Dash until I run into issues while increasi...
Honestly a fair bit of greater reflex is dps and movement rather than pure safety
(You caught me at the perfect time)
On most weapons the dash strike is the primary dps option, and having two dashes before you have to recharge really clinches it
and it also means you’re moving yourself from point a to point b on the map (in and out of combat) far faster
So it’s not just about defence
There’s a reason greatest reflex is a high value Hermes boon
Or rather a number of reasons
You also don’t always end up in a situation where you only need to avoid 1 enemies attacks, sometimes that second dash is being used immediately to get away from another attack
severe arch
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I also thought that going for the 50% bonus is kinda slow cause you have to wait for the enemy to attack first
Which would also be unrelated to safety
severe arch
You also don’t always end up in a situation where you only need to avoid 1 enemi...
Well, yeah, but with perfect timing and positioning, you might be able to avoid that situation most of the time
upper juniper
I’ve been assuming you’re running forced overtime and it just feels a bit hard to say that with that in mind
severe arch
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I also thought that going for the 50% bonus is k...
You mean this?
Haha
upper juniper
You mean this?
Yeah
severe arch
I'm not using that modifier most of the time
I guess it does become less of an issue then
But I feel like it's still significantly slower
It can only cut the "waiting time" by 40%
upper juniper
It can only cut the "waiting time" by 40%
It gets worse the more would normally be happening in a room
any room that has like 15 enemies in it by default now has a bunch that are moving to you and attacking more often
As a greater reflex player, I often find that second dash being stellar for positioning yourself behind cover to avoid those elysium archers that are moving notably faster
or positioning yourself behind them
or honestly just getting enemies in range sooner
(I may be completely greater reflex pilled)
severe arch
Well, I wouldn't know tbh, I don't have enough experience with either
Someone who tried both extensively would need to decide I guess
severe arch
(I may be completely greater reflex pilled)
Maybe, haha
It's probably also based on what you're used to
And maybe both can be made viable with different playstyles
Let's just run an AI simulation that plays both optimally!
😁
upper juniper
Let's just run an AI simulation that plays both optimally!
I’d still give the edge to greater reflex on most builds since most use the dash strike
And dash striking twice just
it just works
something like bugowulf makes sense to possibly have a better time with because you’re not dash striking as much as you’re rushing
Or flat damage soup esque
broken echo
Someone who tried both extensively would need to decide I guess
Not really what you’d be asking for but I play GR and RR for different aspects and the aspects that I run GR really do want the extra dash for mobility
That being said, I play RR now mostly because of my aspect choice
severe arch
Yeah, that's true, it also depends on the build obviously, I guess it's difficult to generalize
broken echo
Yeah, that's true, it also depends on the build obviously, I guess it's difficul...
It would be quite based if you just ran RR on everything though
severe arch
Well, yeah, that's the interesting question, right? If you're a god gamer, can you get away with that? Or would the extra dash still be better anyways? 😁
Let's ask the TASers what they use 😉
Jk, I'm assuming there is no TASing in that game
Or like, to me TAS means fixed input sequences, I guess there might be bots
broken echo
Routed uses greater reflex just because of how it gets damage
broken echo
Well, yeah, that's the interesting question, right? If you're a god gamer, can y...
It’s definitely a weird thing to look at because eventually people take RI3 on the aspects that can run RR, and don’t take RI3 on the aspects that usually run GR
eris and hestia are the exceptions I think