h1-high-heat-strategies

[novel scaffold]

18:44

[broken echo]

Gamer

Free td3

[novel scaffold]

Tartarus usually takes me more than 5 minutes. I plow through the rest of the regions though. I just like taking detours to Erebus in Tartarus

[broken echo]

Yeah those are gonna slow you down a lot ngl

But fists tart is usually slow anyways

[lucid scarab]

ngl fist tart is my fastest tart usually

always ends with like at least 1:30 min left

if I get zeus attack early, make it 2 min

i start having trouble with fists during aspho cus of the lava and during ely+hades cus of the relative lack of scaling + lack of safety range on mino or hades

[broken echo]

That’s fairly slow in the grand scheme of things

[quiet acorn]

not rly

[broken echo]

Depends on the heat atleast

[lucid scarab]

i'm not anywhere near a speedrunner so yeah, but at least it's faster than my usual spear runs lmao

[broken echo]

And compared to other weapons, 3:30 tart is slow

Oh fair

[quiet acorn]

i usually go overtime in tart

or 4:30 minimum

with anything

[lucid scarab]

my slowest is usually spear (not achilles) and bow (without good hammers)

almost can't safely do td3 on those

[broken echo]

I feel like eris should be getting out of tart quickly

That’s where you get the time for em4

[quiet acorn]

if you have 1 min extra out of ely thats enough

[broken echo]

Ok but the previous regions all add up

[quiet acorn]

what

[ashen garnet]

50 can get out of tart at 3/3:30 or timeout ch10 if rooms are bad/no skips; variance grows so much because of JS/CP

[quiet acorn]

🙂

[broken echo]

Like the extra minute you have coming out of ely is dependent on the other regions too

If you get bad ely rooms, you can still get through if you’re 6:30 coming out of aspho

[quiet acorn]

yeah but i can overtime in tart and still easily get a + min

[broken echo]

🤷‍♂️

Ely is weird, but I’d rather bank as much time throughout the run as possible

Like that can happen but going faster is always better

[scarlet sleet]

Hi everyone! Is there a place that shows the heat record for each aspect? I can't seem to find a resource like that anywhere

[broken echo]

https://hades-heat-runs.vercel.app/

Oh rip the site is down

Uh in the meantime do you have an aspect in mind? I know most of them off the top of my head

Also if you look them up on YouTube you’ll probably find it

[quiet acorn]

56-58/60 for most of them i think

[scarlet sleet]

Oh sweet! That's what I figured. I've just recently started pushing into the higher heats and was trying to figure out which aspects are most fun for me. Just wanted to know in general which ones were harder for higher heats and easier for higher heats

Was loving Rama for the Bow and thought my first Gilgamesh run was pretty fun too. Then Hestia seems the easiest for me as long as I don't have Tight Deadline 3 turned on for high heat

[quiet acorn]

rama has beaten max heat

[scarlet sleet]

Do you happen to know those ones?

[quiet acorn]

hestia 60

[scarlet sleet]

Rama beat 64?

[quiet acorn]

yeah

[scarlet sleet]

That's wild

[quiet acorn]

rama eris guan yu zeus has beaten 64

afaik

[scarlet sleet]

Dayum I'm surprised guan yu beat it too

[quiet acorn]

guan yu was 2nd

[scarlet sleet]

That's very cool

[quiet acorn]

it went like near 2 min overtime iirc

[scarlet sleet]

I'll have to try another run with that aspect

[quiet acorn]

lol

[scarlet sleet]

XD

[quiet acorn]

lmao got dynoed

[scarlet sleet]

That's pretty funny

[broken echo]

Gilga is at 55

Tied with Poseidon for lowest

[quiet acorn]

if you think about it, is gilga a real aspect?

[broken echo]

No

It’s more of a dashspect

[scarlet sleet]

It was kinda fun to play with tbh

First time I no hit theseus was with gilgamesh

[forest token]

I thought the 64 was a more reasonable overtime lmao

The 62 was almost 2 min or something tho

[quiet acorn]

oh

oh yeahh

mixed them up i think

sry]

[scarlet sleet]

2 mins over is crazy

[forest token]

Yeah but both overtime afaik

[scarlet sleet]

Anybody go high with lucifer?

[broken echo]

59 is the record

[scarlet sleet]

Just tried that the first time last night and had no idea what I was doing

XD

[broken echo]

Poshboy is pushing 60 though

[scarlet sleet]

That's crazy

[broken echo]

Zeus attack start and aphro or arty on special

Zeus shield is the most approachable for heat imo

[scarlet sleet]

Okay, that's actually what I was trying yesterday

[forest token]

I thought poshboy was doing special start lmao

[scarlet sleet]

Ye, I haven't pushed zeus shield yet

[broken echo]

Oh yeah

Hammer start

Arty

[forest token]

Yea

[scarlet sleet]

Hestia is the only one I've pushed in the 32+ heat range so far

[forest token]

Hestia is good

[ivory drum]

Bestia

[forest token]

Very solid at heat

[scarlet sleet]

Felt pretty fun, but kinda run away-y

[forest token]

Gets a bit pissed on in Ely and bosses past lernie but that's fine lmao

[scarlet sleet]

Ye

I just use the shackle for hestia

Is that what most people do, or is there some other build people go for?

[broken echo]

Aphro attack start

[scarlet sleet]

That sounds legit

[forest token]

Shackle hestia is more of a thing for like speedrunning or you got forced to sell your attack somehow

[scarlet sleet]

Shackle just made it easy to get free heat

[forest token]

Or you started tidal dash for heat so you don't get cucked by bp2

[scarlet sleet]

Probs not as viable in the 40-64 range

Lol

Tidal dash is always nice

Tidal dash and no other boons plus mom pom

Just mega damage on the dash :p

[forest token]

You can shackle hestia for like 45 heat prob

But you'd rather take like acorn later so you want to start with an attack

[scarlet sleet]

That slunds fun

Sounds*

[forest token]

Also hestia is hard capped at 62 lmao

Dc2 makes hestia unplayable

[scarlet sleet]

Why is that?

That makes sense

[forest token]

2 extra shots per enemy yeah

Unless you zag rail it but also why lmao

[quiet acorn]

zag rail can probably 64 right

[scarlet sleet]

Do any of the fists have high heat records?

[forest token]

That also won't cut it for 64 anyways considering eris has a 75% global boost and hestia won't have anything

[forest token]

Idk maybe

No clue

Without the boost it doesn't have good dps

[quiet acorn]

with good rng the dmg can scale close to eris levels

[forest token]

Just more ammo lmao

Oh yeah just get rd

[forest token]

Idk like 58 maybe lmao

[broken echo]

Most people playing heat use modded to ensure being offered 4 cores on first boon regardless of AP and first boon epic

So you’re starting with something pretty close to shackle that can be pinned

[forest token]

Sword and fists kinda suck for heat

Melee in general kinda sucks

[broken echo]

Nem has 58 but angel is actively pushing 60

[scarlet sleet]

That sounds about right

[broken echo]

And fists is kinda stuck at 58 yeah

[scarlet sleet]

I only have it on switch so I play unseeded and unmodded out of necessity

[broken echo]

Makes sense

If you’re interested in really pushing heat, the speedrun server has a heat channel that would probably be more help

[scarlet sleet]

Pretty fun and keeps it interesting at least while I'm still learning a lot of the aspects

Oh fun, I should hop in that one too

I'm still pretty new to hades and only talk to my friends who showed me the gane about it

Probs top 3 favorite games ever already though

[forest token]

Just stay away from reddit and you'll be fine lmao

[scarlet sleet]

Super fun to play at a higher level it seems

Lol

Sounds good XD

[broken echo]

Most definitely. Tons of replay value

[scarlet sleet]

I don't use redit much anyways :p

Is there much crossover between hades and the speedrunning community, or are the speedrunners a pretty small part of hades?

[forest token]

They're pretty small afaik

Some people just do it on their own tho and reach sub10, which is a pretty big milestone

But generally don't go farther

[scarlet sleet]

makes sense

I did a lot of speedrunning a while ago and have never really been part of a video game community that wasn't speedrun related, so was just curious

[forest token]

The more active people here have done speedrunning and/or high heat tho lmao

But vast majority don't

[quiet acorn]

theres an active speedrun server

[scarlet sleet]

Makes sense

Yeah, I'm not really interested in speedrunning hades

[quiet acorn]

fair enough

[ivory drum]

It's fun tho

[scarlet sleet]

More into completing my save and pushing heat/doing challenges

[quiet acorn]

heater 💪

[left prism]

Hades speedrunning sucks!!

[scarlet sleet]

I love heat

I've done plenty of speedrunning already, I'm pretty over it 😅

[forest token]

learning a bit of speedrunning makes you better at heat tho

[solar cloud]

what did the reddit do

[scarlet sleet]

I fully believe it

[bleak grotto]

WHERE DASH POMS

[scarlet sleet]

And you'll need some speed for Td3 anyways

[ivory drum]

Just about everything wrong

[scarlet sleet]

That's free heat once you're fast

[forest token]

Be wrong about a lot of things

Like good builds, basic game mechanics, and what's actually just good or useful in general

People said that you can get duos in trials but they're hard coded to not lmao

[scarlet sleet]

lol

[forest token]

I was told that I overestimated Achilles and hades spear is vastly better

[ivory drum]

Or that one time Jazz said you can't get a pom before a boon and got downvoted into oblivion

[solar cloud]

ah

[forest token]

And they said their best run was like 18 mins or something meanwhile I had a sub10 with hades spear and a sub8 on Achilles

[bleak grotto]

Though to be fair to Reddit, jazz can be quite brusque LOL

[solar cloud]

Being confidently incorrect is reddits whole thing

[scarlet sleet]

can you get a pom before a boon?

[forest token]

Yeah I wouldn't say it's Reddits entire fault for jazz being downvoted so often lmao

[ivory drum]

No

[scarlet sleet]

that would be silly

[forest token]

You can pick up a nonpommable boon that makes your next pom only offer spare wealth

[ivory drum]

Also, maybe in styx shop?

[scarlet sleet]

spare wealth?

does that just give you money?

[ivory drum]

100 obols iirc

[scarlet sleet]

ah ic

[forest token]

I'm pretty sure it's variable

But like about 100 I'd say yeah

[novel scaffold]

uhhh I just beat Hades after my Tight Deadline ran out? I thought I would die when time ran out. I still got the Titan Blood so it didn't affect my bounties...what happened?

[left prism]

If time runs out you take 5 dmg/s

[novel scaffold]

ohhh. I had like 240 health that run so I didn't even notice

[broken echo]

Yeah you can last for quite a bit

If you have divine protection, you can’t actually take that last bit of damage that kills you

[upper juniper]

Oh what

That’s so rad

[broken echo]

Yeah that’s what I heard

Never have done that myself

Actually haven’t gotten Lego in a while tbh

In a non fresh file scenario

[ashen garnet]

||You can also iframe td ticks||

[ashen garnet]

High Heat Leaderboard gdocs sheets are already pinned here 📌

[surreal heron]

ye

[surreal heron]

404 not found

https://hadesglobal.vercel.app/

[quiet acorn]

Hestia

[broken echo]

For pushing close to the record atleast

But yeah hestia is really nice until 50 ish

[quiet acorn]

54 actually

[broken echo]

True

[ashen garnet]

ik, link tends to change or be unavailable without warning, plus sheets are much more legible, but nobody else seem to care enough about boards splits nor having to aggregate from 4 different resources (heat sheet, modded heat sheet, srcom, vercel leaderboard)

[quiet acorn]

i prefer sheets

This channel (and category) is for discussing the first Hades game. Please go to ⁠h2-discussion to talk about Hades II.

[ivory drum]

This channel (and category) is for discussing the first Hades game. Please go to ⁠h2-discussion to talk about Hades II.

[ashen garnet]

Just block the damn bot tbh

[surreal heron]

Hestia is good for learning things about heat because it's a very simple weapon.

Point gun at enemy and reload+shoot to delete enemy.
If enemy is still alive repeat step 1 until dead.
So I'd recommend it for people up to 45/50 heat, then I'd suggest experimenting with different weapons

[bleak grotto]

Zagbow's also a good option

[hardy garden]

Until savior numbskulls

[steel summit]

I hate savior numbskulls so much

Speeder/slugger Chariot is a close second

[forest token]

i hear your savior numbskulls and raise you savior cloner numbskulls

[hardy garden]

Speeder slugger strongbows/shielders/anything on melee

[bleak grotto]

Strongbows more like strongsemiautomaticrifles uggggh

[hardy garden]

https://streamable.com/msgxrf I totally won this btw

armored strongbow rooms waste so much time

also how do you kill sword dudes without eating a billion hits to the face

[steel summit]

My honest Elysium reaction

[steel summit]

Is personal liability like free heat or really rough? I've never played hell mode

[quiet acorn]

pl is free but cp is not

[steel summit]

Oh yeah hell forces calisthenics1

[broken echo]

you can kinda get used to cp1 if build is good

cp2 hurts, esp in bosses

pl is free

[steel summit]

Can I swap a save file to hell mode? I've got 2 100% saves and never really played hell mode

[broken echo]

with the speedrunning modpack yeah

[ashen garnet]

pl kinda free :clueless:

[quiet acorn]

i wonder if ri3 is optimal for gilgamesh

[broken echo]

I think the RR global carries drunken strike

so it would probably make athena or something more viable

[quiet acorn]

yeah i am just starting ddash lmao

[true oracle]

so has the game been beaten with the highest heat possible?
also, has this been odne with every aspect?

[broken echo]

yes, no

[quiet acorn]

4 aspects iirc

[broken echo]

rama, eris, guan yu, zeus

[true oracle]

is there a leaderboard of the highest heat hit with every weapon

[broken echo]

yep

[true oracle]

guan yu?
the one where you get 1/3 health?

[quiet acorn]

imagine saying that to someone a year ago

[true oracle]

i'm sure they'll all be done in a few years

[quiet acorn]

uh no lmao

[broken echo]

i feel like I've seen someone say "zeus has done it but eris, rama, and guan yu are also contenders"

whoever said that predicted the future pretty well

[broken echo]

never happening

i mean i'd love to see 24/24 64 of course

[quiet acorn]

tbh doesnt take a genius to figure that out

[left prism]

Even if the aspects could, imagine convincing someone to play them

[broken echo]

but I really just don't see that happening

[true oracle]

well i'm the noob so i'll drop it

[broken echo]

nah it's a good thought, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't push the aspect records

[true oracle]

but honestly, every year i watch speedrunners say things like "everyone top player in the community thought this was impossible a year ago"

[quiet acorn]

anyway whens the unmodded rama and gy 64

[left prism]

Castpects with ri3 is pretty much a hard killer

[broken echo]

that's how they're broken after all

yep

[true oracle]

and hades is a very new game relatively

[left prism]

I think the only surprising aspect for 64 was gy ngl

Zeus had the routed clear and rama was always a contender for it

Eris was a surprise too ig

[true oracle]

also are we talking seeded or unseeded?

[broken echo]

unseeded

[left prism]

Unseeded but some modded

[broken echo]

but modded

[left prism]

Zeus has unseeded, unmodded

[broken echo]

only unmodded runs are the 2 zeus uns and baj's routed 64

[quiet acorn]

i like to think the one year ive played hades has been its best year

[broken echo]

it has been a pretty wild year yeah

[true oracle]

by modded you mean the speedrunning modpack only?

[quiet acorn]

yeah

[broken echo]

and first boon epic

[quiet acorn]

actually not sure about first boon epic

ah that too then

[broken echo]

some with

[true oracle]

i assume epic first is tolerable because you can get that by seed scumming without a mod

it just save stime?

[broken echo]

basically

[quiet acorn]

yeah

[broken echo]

we'd be resetting for it otherwise so it's mostly QOL

[quiet acorn]

most heat runners use first boon epic i think

[broken echo]

except some unmodded gamers like retrash and alex

[true oracle]

ok i see the pinned leaderboard

[quiet acorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088591737309638746/1265008137904328746/image.png?ex=669ff222&is=669ea0a2&hm=8c86cb135300cb0ff7fbac46dc110753635b7f62338b34149071ed3376a2435f&

should i sell atk and take dio keepsake

[broken echo]

i guess yeah

[quiet acorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088591737309638746/1265011125204811976/image.png?ex=669ff4eb&is=669ea36b&hm=240e6aac1e8eb96667417ca216d8b13099ce99c1fac88652e7d65b8713d1e1d4&

should sell attack and go shackle

[broken echo]

how did this happen

ngl i thought the tart sell was forced

wouldn't have sold if you were just dumping boons

[quiet acorn]

dw i got common aphro strike later

[forest token]

Nah some aspects get mega shafted by the pact and also some aspects are kinda just bad lmao

Ap2 shafts your build so you die to td3 basically

obv you can rng into a good build but some aspects just can't get through td3 and other pact conditions bc of how theyre designed

Like rama and guan Yu needed to rng the second hammer along with a few other things more or less

But something like Arthur would not be able to get 64 ever realistically speaking

[quiet acorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088591737309638746/1265014907544277063/image.png?ex=669ff870&is=669ea6f0&hm=5dd5b1948250e84d403e6fbc77e77cd43dc8a5b2435d127baf10897cdff71552&

it was funny while it lasted

[left prism]

Just get routed tier ichors ofc

[forest token]

So true bestie

Also btw did the 64 Arthur guy respond yet

[quiet acorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1088591737309638746/1265015558059987004/Screenshot_2024-07-23_at_12.01.33_AM.png?ex=669ff90b&is=669ea78b&hm=69847dfa55b80b42d47c57eaec6506a6a1695a368282952e0ff28854052a356d&

if this was patty instead of a million archers

[forest token]

Deeply unfortunate

[quiet acorn]

i was mostly laughing throughout this tho

not everyday you go through the first half of gilga 50 ely without core boons

[left prism]

Nah

[forest token]

Damn

[true oracle]

so at max ap do you get 2 choices or 1?
i know 3-2 is 1 but I saw a hades speedrun and they had 4 choices each

[quiet acorn]

1

[quiet acorn]

4 choices is a part of the modpack for first boon only

so you can start with the core you want

[true oracle]

ah

damn, imagine getting hte perfect boon rng run going for 64 heat and then just losing it to a mistake

[quiet acorn]

are you referencing anything in particular

[broken echo]

Happens

[quiet acorn]

does lament have any prereqs?

[true oracle]

i just meant, for a weapon that becomes impossible with Ap2 like bananas mentioned

it would be very demotivating to attempt

[quiet acorn]

choking good runs happens all the time

[broken echo]

Yeah

It isn’t restricted to the weaker aspects yeah

[true oracle]

yeah, but imagine the good runs are only 1/1000, and a good run is required to even have a chance, and then choking

[quiet acorn]

if this sv had a vc id stream

[true oracle]

so if you want to start building the skills for high heat, should you pick the pacts that change your gameplay first so you can practice for the game you'll be playing?

[quiet acorn]

that mostly includes forced overtime 2

and tight deadline 3

after that you can start getting used to no healing and hl5 aka +100% enemy damage

[true oracle]

and things like EM, benefits, middle management, so you're practicing against hte right mobs

[quiet acorn]

yeah those too

but you always want to do those wiht forced overtime

[true oracle]

ugh, and the whole mirror

[quiet acorn]

what

[true oracle]

should you just start with routine inspection 4 so that you don't get used to having those benefits?

[quiet acorn]

no dont touch ri

you dont use ri until like 50+ heat

[true oracle]

i see

[quiet acorn]

and ri4 is like

64 heat stuff

[hardy garden]

Ri bad

Ap bad

[true oracle]

well yeah, but do you take the easy heat first, or the heat that forces you to play 'right' first 😛

like as a silly example, if you practice up to 30 heat without doing EM3, then you're spending a lot of time practicing against the wrong combat patterns for heroes

[quiet acorn]

they both are the same

[left prism]

I mean, the heats to avoid are usually the ones that just make your build worse

No much counterplay

[quiet acorn]

the heat that you can learn are easy once you learn them

[left prism]

Just add the fundamentals then see what's left that's not too bad

[quiet acorn]

most of the 'hard' heat is just stuff that you cant do anything about

[left prism]

Or ball and learn em4

[quiet acorn]

i wish i started out with em4

[true oracle]

that might be what i do next

learn to fight hades with training wheels instead of with weighted clothing

[quiet acorn]

made it to heroes twice in a row with gilga feeling good about future attempts

[true oracle]

how so?
i mean when i switched on EM3 i found theseus easier but mino harder

[quiet acorn]

yeah it does increase difficulty no denying that

but once you learn it/get used to it you will find little reason to not take that heat option

effectively making it free heat in a sense

[true oracle]

yeah, there was a very real sense of "oh, I need to unlearn the attack patterns I remembered, because the hurt boxes and safe zones are no longer correct"

actually the medusa head miniboss in asphodel rolled me the first time i fought the middle management version, because I didn't realize i was taking damage from the changed attack patterns for a long time

so turn on all those first, and then you'll build the right muscle memory the first time

[quiet acorn]

im not gonna lie, i dont remember what the default miniboss does

[true oracle]

i think the main change is the stompy guy sending out a different shockwave

[quiet acorn]

oh the shockwave

[true oracle]

dusa also teleports

[quiet acorn]

yeah

gorgon head not dusa

[true oracle]

sorry, didn't mean to insult best character in the game by comparing her to a gorgon head

[quiet acorn]

[true oracle]

but yeah, the miniboss is not 'harder', unless you've built muscle memory to fight it the wrong way 😛

[quiet acorn]

if you dont know yet meg companion cheeses most minibosses

[true oracle]

should i use her to break armor or to kill after breaking armor?

[quiet acorn]

break armour

[true oracle]

and yeah, she's gotten me out of a few gorgon head and butterfly ball fights

[quiet acorn]

butteryfly is straightforward

go in and use it

[true oracle]

but i'm using bouldy right now for the free darkness

and because it's funny way to end a meg fight

[quiet acorn]

i can imagine

[ashen garnet]

If given enough grind, believe we could have every aspect reach 58 unmodded at some point, with most being capped at 59/60-ish.
Hypermodded and routed/runcontrol might push every aspect to 64, but it'll still be a long journey for non-heat-meta aspects

[broken echo]

Good attitude if you want to eventually do 50+

You should put on EM4 as early as possible

[forest token]

My brother in Christ no

[broken echo]

I wish I had

[forest token]

That's bc you're doing like 60 heat lmao

Most people don't go past 32 or even 40 and em4 isn't worth learning for those two

[broken echo]

Ok but it’s fun

[forest token]

Fair

[broken echo]

And I wish I’d put it on earlier just for the fun factor tbh

[forest token]

But it's still not practical

[broken echo]

Yeah that’s fair

[hardy garden]

Like if youre only doing 32s there isnt much point putting em4 for practice for 50+ since you prob wont be there for a awhile and likely wont even get there

[true oracle]

so i put it on and got him to under 10% of 3rd bar, so i think i'm good to keep rpacticing it

and honestly, a lot of his patterns in the first 2 phases change, so with some learning his patterns i should improve drastically

really really upset about cerberus betraying me, but i'll get over it

[steel summit]

How much worse is 50 heat compare to 40 heat? I never tried, but I'm guessing a lot since that's when you've no choice but to unfortunately take AP, sone levels of RI or EM4 if you're borderline insane

[quiet acorn]

it harder but not unreasonably hard

[hardy garden]

Its a lot rougher but on top aspects its pretty doable, on crappier aspects its kinda

Like if youre doing your 40s with 5+ minutes left over with js3 and with consistency then you can prob do 50, especially if elysium decides to be nice

[steel summit]

I've done a good amount of 40 heat runs but I definitely should work on getting better at timer

Maybe I can try 45 instead of just jumping to 50

[quiet acorn]

thats what id recommend

[hardy garden]

48 hestia is nice, no ap1

[steel summit]

I'm not the biggest hestia fan

[hardy garden]

[quiet acorn]

hestia coming over to visit you rn

[steel summit]

Doors open

[quiet acorn]

🤨 🤨 🤨

[true oracle]

most of the pacts seem to make you play the game more, but AP and RI seem to make you play the game less

like instead of adding challenges they just take content out of the game

[ashen garnet]

Yeah, they also make lots of builds less to not viable regarding TD3

[true oracle]

is high heat mostly controller or mouse/keyboard?

[broken echo]

Most 64 runners are kbm but playad and vaxon use controller

[forest token]

Yeah it's kinda just personal preference

[true oracle]

high heat guide recommends fiery presence
does this change with damage control?
it seems like fiery presence encourages you to open with a hard hit, damage control encourages you to open with a spam'd weak attack

it seems like it would be hard to remove the damage control shields and also keep the enemy undamaged for a big hit

depending on weapon

[forest token]

Yeah if you take dc you might as well take shadow

There's no way to guarantee fiery to proc with dc

Most of the time tho fiery is better without dc

[true oracle]

on rama without dc is shadow better?

since you'll never have shared suffering and fiery on the same target

[forest token]

I take fiery bc it gives more damage when you shoot off spawn

Although apparently shared suffering does more damage if you have like any attack boon or something idk lmao

Bc it's based on damage dealt and not bas damage

[true oracle]

yeah, shared suffering is multiplicative right?

i mean its more complicated than that

but in a broad sense the 60% shared suffering is a lot more than additive +60% damage

[forest token]

Yeah

Idk I still just take fiery lmao

I like smacking things off spawn

I also just don't aim for back stabs

[broken echo]

i've been running shadow on zeus tbh

probably marginally better bossing since the special can't backstab

[true oracle]

i mean, do fiery or shadow make much difference in a zeus run?

[broken echo]

nah

i run zeus on zeus so fiery gets like

22.5 extra damage per enemy

the backstabs definitely exist though, and arty on attack is nice

not that i get any boons at all lmao

[true oracle]

like, i suppose against some trash mobs the shield might kill it ratherthan leave 1/10 of a health bar after passing over

[broken echo]

mostly I just have zeus spec lvl2 by end of tart

[true oracle]

save 0.5 seconds a few times per run

[broken echo]

maybe

[true oracle]

the banana32 guide for hera mentions snow burst and possible mirage shot, but is ravenous will considered good as a pick up? or even as cope?

also if you get demeter early in tartarus, and she's offering snow burst and rare crop (aphrodite cast is guaranteed to get picked up by crop and currently epic), which do you take?

[bleak grotto]

Depends on the weapon. Castspects super want Snow Burst

And your Cast is already Epic

[true oracle]

hera bow, sorry

[hardy garden]

You just take snow burst there, one rarity level isnt huge and youre wasting time with common and no snurst

[true oracle]

this was what i did
it did hurt leaving heroic crush shot on the table 😦

[forest token]

Ngl I should probably add rav will to the guide lmao

I forgot about that when writing it

[true oracle]

since the cast boon and poms for aphrodite all affect base damage, % increases are really strong right?

[forest token]

Yeah

The issue with mirage shot is the fact that you'll need to find Artemis and Poseidon naturally since you'd rather force Dem for snow burst

It's just asking a lot in the build

[ivory drum]

Additive damage (+%) is very important in all cast builds

[true oracle]

I'm actually learning a lot just by doing the guide without really thinking about it
playing the game it quickly becomes apparent why it says to do X or Y

[hollow merlin]

Around what heat is em4 an option worth considering for Hestia?

[forest token]

like at least past 45 lmao

maybe starting 50 idk

you can kinda get away with not taking em4 by taking ri2 lmfao

[hollow merlin]

What does the second routine inspection remove again?

[quiet acorn]

50 hp family favorites 100 gold

i mean those are what you should be running

[hollow merlin]

Ok, so it’s not too bad

[quiet acorn]

makes tart a bit harder

on like fists 25% global from family favorites is significant

[forest token]

for hestia it's not a big deal

the -50 hp is a bit rough but on the other hand you're trading 50 hp for em4 basically lmao

[quiet acorn]

oh yeah then def

[broken echo]

54 is fine without it

[hollow merlin]

Damn

[broken echo]

basically max heat -em4 - ri3/4 -dc2

[quiet acorn]

56 * 😌

[broken echo]

i like my extra dash thank you very much

[hollow merlin]

Ri3 is probably one of the last things you want to put on with high heat

[quiet acorn]

ri4 :

[hollow merlin]

Aside from ri4*

[quiet acorn]

ri3 is better take on hestia than dc2 tho

[broken echo]

Monodash shield is really fun

Better than 2 dashes imo

[forest token]

it's certainly an experience

[quiet acorn]

An experience I wil never experience

[ivory drum]

I've experienced it, highly recommend

[forest token]

it's honestly not that bad lmao

like in midcombat it's pretty chill

[hardy garden]

Losing rr is still gross

[true oracle]

ok i beat em4 a few times but after putting heat up to heat 18 i understand why people save em4 for last

[true oracle]

@forest token
For hera bow
Would you take snow burst > ravenous or vice versa? might be rarity dependent because ravenous swings hugely with rarity
would you reroll one into the other or just take the first that comes up?

I've been taking parting shot any time it comes up naturally. Is it worth taking shadow over fiery to add another 50% cast damage if you get it? is it worth going for intentionally or just taking if it happens along?

[left prism]

I'd take snow burst no matter the rarity

[quiet acorn]

I don't think fiery and shadow work on casts, only atks and specs

[left prism]

Even if it didn't it puts the backstab boon into chaos pool at least

But parting is usually uc fodder for me

[true oracle]

huh that's interesting
the mirror buff says attack and special only, but the whole point of the duo boon is that it says backstab buffs also apply to spells

[quiet acorn]

Oh

[true oracle]

I guess you're suggesting it only takes advantage of other backstab buffs

[quiet acorn]

Yeah that duo

[true oracle]

those that don't specify attack/special but are global

[quiet acorn]

No it works I think

[ivory drum]

Parting shot only works on cast backstabs

It does not add damage anywhere else

[quiet acorn]

But i don't rly see you backstabbing with the cast

Or maybe you do, idk

I don't play hera

[ivory drum]

Plus, isn't it only like 30%

[true oracle]

oh, i misread parting
I thought it cause your spells to always do backstab damage, regardless of hit direction

like without parting - spells never backstab
with parting - spells always backstab

the wording is

Your Cast gains any bonuses you have for striking foes from behind.

[quiet acorn]

Nah that'd be crazy on hera lol

[quiet acorn]

The wording is really messed up

[ashen garnet]

Backstab is weird, a few things backstab while they shouldn't and don't when they should

[left prism]

Phalanx is the only one that gets funny frontstabs

[ivory drum]

I think Mort gets the boost for some reason?

[ashen garnet]

Oh yeah frontstabs

[left prism]

If the enemy has exposed

[true oracle]

you say that'd be crazy like this game isn't full of situations exactly like that 😄

on hera
quick reload or greatest reflex?

[quiet acorn]

Quick reload ofc

Unless you got a really strong dash or are running ruthless

[left prism]

Just learn wallbug and take the dashes /j

[forest token]

Always snow burst > rav will
I'll never roll over rav will for snurst unless it's common rav will but even then I might still take common bc don't wanna use dice or take it for UC fodder

Also parting shot is never really worth taking other than to sell lmao

[broken echo]

free money

but yeah the wording is actually terrible and I would curse it out more on another server

[latent drum]

is there any way to practice just the em4 boss fight

like 1/7 of my runs make it to hades bc of bad luck

[broken echo]

savestate practice

https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/1233146182835114035/1260367284912914582

[true oracle]

on pc or console?

[broken echo]

this should work for hades 1

also yeah only on pc

[true oracle]

does greater recall affect how fast stones fall out of enemies

or just how long until they auto fly back

[left prism]

Just the auto return

Quick reload is the dislodge timer

[hollow merlin]

Just got super close to beating 45 heat on my 3rd attempt but heightened security had other plans in the hades fight

[true oracle]

ah, not as great as i thought
still useful

[broken echo]

It's fine, but you'd usually still want hyperdelivery tbh

[quiet acorn]

Classic

[true oracle]

Chaos cast 76% damage
On hera
But it's 4 damage when I attack for 3 encounters

[broken echo]

Just don’t get hit or something

[quiet acorn]

If it's tartarus you can manage it

[true oracle]

It was tartarus

And I did not manage it

[broken echo]

Rough

[true oracle]

Wretched sneak

[ivory drum]

I actually don't take attack curse anymore unless it is super early tart

It's just not worth losing like 2 dds for it

[broken echo]

AP2

I just roll with attack or special curse tbh

Simply don’t get hit

Practicing for mirrorless anyways

[true oracle]

Growth mindset

[broken echo]

yeah

suffering builds character...

[latent drum]

https://streamable.com/mkdudz

hestia rail was there anything i could have done

literally so rage inducing

[quiet acorn]

yeah thats unfortunate

[true oracle]

i had this encounter
deleted it with a demeter call i had picked up for underworld customs

it did seem to be like it would be unwinnable for some builds

[latent drum]

i think this is the worst its ever been for me bc blue hearts + speed bonus (which also affects how fast they do the blue hearts)

[true oracle]

yeah, i figured benefits 1 isn't bad benifits 2 will be fine
it's fine 90% of the time, then it suddenly isn't

at least its tartarus

[left prism]

bp2 is truly the pact of all time

cloners/homing witches my beloveds

[true oracle]

homing is funny

[broken echo]

Some of the witch rooms are so funny

[latent drum]

literally why i try to get divine dash every run

[latent drum]

wait where are the save files stored? the doc tells me to go to C:\Users\<Your Username>\Saved Games\Hades II but there's no folder for hades 1 there

[broken echo]

Oh sorry it’s in documents>saved games

[true oracle]

witches: we have homing shot and clone
arthur aspect zaq w athena attack: i'm not trapped in here with you...

[broken echo]

Except you still get hit between strikes

[true oracle]

yeah, dialing up the heat i start to notice my attacks getting interrupted a lot more

[latent drum]

ty

[left prism]

the life of arthur

[true oracle]

lol meg calls you out for turning on forced ot

[true oracle]

hot damn everything i ever said about EM3 being easy was wrong and dumb, FO2 is a completely different game

[hollow merlin]

When should I grind up my hell mode file for high heat so I can put on personal liability for a free 1 heat?

[jaunty falcon]

If you are on pc I would just install a mod where you can easily switch

The speedrunning mod pack has this toggle built in, it probably exists as a standalone mod elsewhere

Then you can just delete the mods

[latent drum]

I struggled on em3 fo2 for some time as well

Just take acorn and lock in

[true oracle]

the nice thing about em3 is that heroes seems to be the 'hump' to get over, then the run is usually won

like usually even coming out with just 1 dd I feel comfortabble

only up to 24 heat tho

[latent drum]

I used to feel like that

Wait till u get to em4

Im on like my 35th attempt of 48 heat

[quiet acorn]

em4 is rly hard

[hardy garden]

Are you doing em4 48

[latent drum]

Is that bad

[broken echo]

nah it's fine

people usually don't take em4 until 55+ but if you like it go for it

[hardy garden]

Its harder than non em4. Have fun

[hollow merlin]

Speaking of em4, I am practicing it just in case if I choose to play with it in 50 heat or above

[exotic tinsel]

the hump for me on fo2/3 is the sack chance on styx tunnels

[true oracle]

em4 wasn't too bad at lower heats but i don't want to do it at higher ones

[broken echo]

You prob mean td3 but yeah

It sycks

If you want to always get a 2 sack, play modded

[exotic tinsel]

ya timer

my bad

[broken echo]

All g

[true oracle]

you know modding for satry sack on 2nd hall gives additional unfair advantage beyond just saving time

it also means you can use teh charon wells with perfect information

we should petition devs to make the # of halls max out at 4/3/2 for tight deadline 1/2/3 respectively

[broken echo]

why

[broken echo]

meh, if you're shooting for a good time, you'll buy out the wells regardless since you're hoping for a two sack

modding just makes it so you no longer have to consider the coin toss of not getting a 2 sack

[broken echo]

someone could want to clear all 5 tunnels just for fun/more damage

[true oracle]

i mean they'd still have the option, i'm just suggesting altering the sack timing

[broken echo]

Oh sack timing is something almost everyone agrees on tbh

It should be 2 always

No reason to punish Td0 gamers

[forest token]

Nah you just buy from the well anyways lmao

Pray for 2 sack

If anything the 2 sack guarantee to buy from well is only applicable to literally buying touch of Styx + hourglass in the well before aspho

Bc in modded it's nearly guaranteed to last until dad fight

I think you need only 1 free room to make it last

Might be 0 lmao

[reef umbra]

How many heat do you think it would be worth for a pact of punishment if it was guaranteed 3 sack, 4 sack, 5 sack…

[ashen garnet]

Idk, assuming that greece/hades fight should theoretically be an additional td instance or be free from td

[honest kernel]

just did another 32 and am remembering my days as a noob when i couldn't even beat theseus on 0

oh how far I've come

[surreal heron]

yeah that improvement is something I try to keep in mind when I find it hard to beat a pb

[true oracle]

does taking darkness from sisyphus count as a meta reward for purposes of future chamber rewards?

[broken echo]

I don’t think so

[ivory drum]

It does not

[true oracle]

so may as well tak ethe gold, or skip him

[left prism]

No reason to skip him really

Free room is free room

[broken echo]

Shop if you’re not broke and want boons

But I’m usually still broke in Tartarus

[true oracle]

oh right he's free time

i guess people always take the gold

[hardy garden]

Nah i accidently pick the health while trying to skip through the dialogue

[quiet acorn]

how

r u on controller bc i press spacebar to get through dialoge

[hardy garden]

Yeah

[left prism]

On controller spam attack instead to mash through his text

[honest kernel]

I pick up the darkness because lolrank + dark regen

If I ever get Unseen One (lol) I'll just take the money and run

Same for any pb attempt on heat or time

[left prism]

Could also swap to cthonic vitality

[honest kernel]

I take dark regen to encourage trove use. Again, lolrank

[left prism]

That's certainly an approach

[honest kernel]

But yeah if i ever have zero need for darkness I'll swap.

I'm only Sigma Fixer now though

That's far from my only questionable choice lol. I use Mort as my companion.

[ivory drum]

Best way to get unseen one is speedrunning, as well as doing troves

[quiet acorn]

Or play casually for 1k hours

[broken echo]

Category suggestion: fresh file to unseen one. RTA. 100 hours of breaks allowed

[surreal heron]

no

[surreal heron]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it2-gif-20563539

^also that should be except not exept, no idea why the gif says that.

[ivory drum]

What do you mean you don't want to spend hundreds of hours on a speedrun?

[quiet acorn]

spend hundreds of hours on speedruns ❌

spend hundreds of hours on a speedrun ✅

[true oracle]

ok cool, speedrunning mod pak seems to work for satyr sack

adn gives me 4 starting boons to pick from

but how do i select which god, and make them epic

[left prism]

For god just use their keepsake
All epic is not from the modpack

I think I have it?

[true oracle]

ah ok, so all epic is not speedrun legal?

[left prism]

Yesh for speedruns is only modpack stuff

(and I think visual changes are ok?)

[true oracle]

huh, seems odd that something that would be really easy to do with resets (get epic first boon) is out but manipulating first hammer is in

but i guess some builds absolutely rely on hammer or its over

and none really rely on epic

is there any way to reset the seed back in the house, or is the only way to get a new seed dying super slowly in tartarus

[left prism]

Check the modpack's setting (open boon menu in the courtyard) and look for quick reset

You press a combo of buttons and zag insta dies

[quiet acorn]

most of them really

[surreal heron]

there's a first boon epic mod that a lot of high heaters use so you can probably grab that (just won't be legal on SRC website).

[quiet acorn]

most aspects play twice or thrice as better than they would without certain hammers

[surreal heron]

And also a reason why hammers are legal but first boon epic isn't is because rng for first boon impacts multi weapon speedruns

[true oracle]

ah, multi make sense

so on hera bow i started aphrodite cast as usual, but got offered athena heroic cast as replacement as my 2nd boon

athena its actually higher flat damage at heroic

it seems to be a bit better at carrying damage forward if you overkill, but the main drawback is my bloodstones tend to get lost in a corner

[left prism]

Yeah phalanx is fun till you miss once

[surreal heron]

not bad but would usually keep aphro, easier to handle and fewer damage reduction bugs if I recall correctly.

[forest token]

Also the modpack was created with the intent for streamed races not like actual speedrunning lmao

Bc yaknow

It's more fun to watch when one of them doesn't get 5 sacked lmao

[ashen garnet]

Just force tony 5-sack for content and consistency's sake

[forest token]

so true bestie

[steel summit]

What do you even build for Poseidon's aspect lmao, I can't get 32 heat done with it

[shy plinth]

Any cast build should work, don't overfocus on the cast stones dislodging

Crystal clarity always fun, hunting blades can work too

And can't go wrong with lightning phalanx

[solar cloud]

What should I do after 32 heat? Do I just jump straight to 40?

[forest token]

yeah you can

32 -> 40 is a pretty standard pipeline

[solar cloud]

oki ty

[forest token]

to add on to Hat, you can also just do merciful end lmao

good ol reliable

[shy plinth]

Ah yes

"What build should I do with x" "Merciful end"

[steel summit]

I tried to do hunting blades with it yeah, but didn't manage to get the duo so I died

Ares cast kinda not good without duo

[steel summit]

Hmm yeah I could do that lol, I don't like this aspect much

[shy plinth]

Also just to check for the usual stuff, what's your pact/mirror

[steel summit]

I did 32 heat with Zagreus sword but I can't win with Poseidon

[steel summit]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/564704477219651587/1267215763052298250/image.png?ex=66a7fa25&is=66a6a8a5&hm=f7e1721bb68d6f995cab9f6997d7e2a5890c4264dbb32fb62127eaae83e6a7a4&=&format=webp&quality=lossless This

[shy plinth]

Oh boy

Are you looking for advice to make things easier for yourself

Because there are some opportunities

[steel summit]

Not really, I've been using this exact same setup for most aspects but I've hit a wall with Poseidon

So maybe there was like some magical build

[shy plinth]

Ok - I am impressed that you've done that well with this pact tbh, I think that you've picked some really challenging options

[forest token]

just bc you still cleared doesn't mean you can't make it easier on yourself lmao

[shy plinth]

There are def ways to optimize here if you're interested. The main thing I'll call out here is that using stygian soul on poseidon will really hold you back

You want to cast-cast-cast and kill the thing you're hitting so you can pick up the stones again

[steel summit]

Oh yeah I've been using infernal lol, the image just wasn't from a Poseidon run

[forest token]

a build difference can solve a lot of problems but a better mirror/pact would also just lessen the problem

[shy plinth]

There are def other ways to adjust your pact as well if you're interested - happy to provide advice as someone who has done 32x24. And Bananas is much better than me lol

We both have some pinned reference materials in this channel, Bananas has a very good 32 heat guide. Happy to give some quick notes here as well

[steel summit]

Yeah that's true

[steel summit]

What would you change?

[hardy garden]

Just do ME or flat damage soup

[forest token]

someone cleared 32 heat with ri3 hestia or something on reddit which like sure it worked but also bruh lmao

[shy plinth]

Let me type some stuff!

Ok first, your mirror - this is actually pretty solid but the main thing that stands out to me is Privileged Status over Family Favorite

Fam Fave impacts every attack you make, doesn't require you to pick specific boons to work, and starts powering up immediately in Tartarus

[hardy garden]

also use pride instead of legacy

[shy plinth]

It's not just a flat 25% once you're filled out - it's 5% per god as you go

I do like Pride over Legacy though I don't think that's a dealbreaker

[forest token]

ngl i'd consider taking legacy over pride if you want to build hunting blades, otherwise pride even for ME

[hardy garden]

Dont do cp, cp bad

[steel summit]

Oh yeah I always try to aim for a double curse if I can but that makes sense

[shy plinth]

As for the mirror, this is where you have major opportunity. I see you're on TD2 and you've fallen into a common trap - players pick pact options that slow the game down and then drop the timer as a result. TD3 is way way way less tough when you have 0 CP 0 JS

[forest token]

doom by itself is pretty solid and you'd still have ddash ideally, with hunting blades your build is literally nonexistent

[shy plinth]

You should also really look at underworld customs as a much easier 2 heat

All you want to do there is keep a boon in mind to sell and hold rerolls for the purging pool

By taking UC and TD3, you can drop CP1, JS1, and then 2 points of hard labor

I haven't done the math there, I think you actually have more on the table even

[steel summit]

I've a love/hate relationship with it

[hardy garden]

Yeah they can drop 1 more heat

[shy plinth]

Hades has 17,000 health per health bar. Your'e adding 2500 health each time

[steel summit]

Yeah that's true honestly, I've done TD3 a couple times but didn't go back to it

[shy plinth]

NICE

Yeah I'd strongly recomend dropping CP, JS, and all of your hard labor for TD3 and UC

Alternatively, you can do hard labor 1 and then drop convenience fee

That's the pact I used for 32 heat on every aspect 🙂

For summary's sake:
HL1 LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 TD3

I bet that'll feel a good bit easier than where you're at now and if you've been 32ing with this pact you 100% have the skill set to be successful

This pact is REALLY hard lol

[steel summit]

That def seems more reasonable

[shy plinth]

Yeah give it a try and see if it helps, I bet you'll crush em

[steel summit]

Yeah I kinda did a 40 heat run and sort of repurposed the pact for 32 so maybe it's got a tad harder than it should

[steel summit]

This sounds fine for those aspects I don't like much

[shy plinth]

It kinda works with everything tbh

You're already used to playing at FO2

That's really huge

If you're used to FO2 and LC4+SD, I don't foresee you having many issues at all

[vagrant carbon]

hey, i'm trying to knock out all aspects at 32H and i'm feeding with lucifer, any build tips

[steel summit]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/564704477219651587/1267220011525865544/image.png?ex=66a7fe1a&is=66a6ac9a&hm=05ad3070a855f0ffdae30bfb629d19cd482b586b0db91dd9b3f6830c939ee039&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=550&height=305 This is all I did with that specific pact so far

[shy plinth]

Jeez

[shy plinth]

See above 🙂 The pact I listed above should work. Bananas' pinned 32 heat guide very helpful

[steel summit]

You can tell how much I like Poseidon's aspect because I won 1 (one) time on 4 heat and haven't used it since

[hardy garden]

You pretty much build it the same as eris except you hope you get triple bomb so you can kill everything with special

[vagrant carbon]

so am i aiming for a buffed up zeus attack? or am i supposed to focus on a special boon and just get triple bomb

[steel summit]

Alright gonna try the new pact and see how it goes

[shy plinth]

Good luck!

[hardy garden]

If you get triple bomb you pom up your special like once or twice, otherwise you pom tdash once or twice and the rest of your poms go into static discharge

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/725021639506526249/1263622479574732871/image.png?ex=66a76de4&is=66a61c64&hm=27011aeff418a2c0e3d28726c2fb15e1e9748872f2f2ec46729f0c9bf0a924ba& aim for a build like this basically

[vagrant carbon]

makes sense, will try that now! thx

stickybot i know man

[vagrant carbon]

ok triple bomb did indeed make it a piece of cake

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1267234088209879156/1267234332112584868/image.png?ex=66a80b70&is=66a6b9f0&hm=60858b2bb5583f83e3fd8a3a279cb7408ec3ffccdae27fa8f87477d197f83fc7& (testing to see if image link works)

[broken echo]

Real

300 base damage is basically clockets

[steel summit]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/564704477219651587/1267233296308506716/20240728183207_1.jpg?ex=66a80a79&is=66a6b8f9&hm=f88a800d0c50976a1588bc62d642a15f80d31c3ae44ce9a37db7aff1884fb3f1&=&format=webp&width=1202&height=676 Nice done already

Build was pretty solid at least

[shy plinth]

Yoooo well done

[shy plinth]

Grats 🙂

[steel summit]

The pact worked really nice

Honestly was kinda hesitant to take UC but I guess it's not that bad

[shy plinth]

Yeah you just gotta account for it

As long as you think about which boon to sell in tart and save a reroll or two it's ez

[steel summit]

Yea I'll keep it on for now

Probably gonna try Zag's rail next to get it out of the way

Rest of aspects are fun

[shy plinth]

Good luck, I'm sure you got this ez

[steel summit]

Btw would you take something out from the pact if you were to pick up blue hearts for something like Lucifer+Zeus attack or nah

[broken echo]

Maybe EM3 or LC4 can be taken out

[steel summit]

EM3 is 3 heat right? So adding 2 blue hearts instead of that would be 31 heat

Maybe an extra HL

[broken echo]

yeah extra HL

[vagrant carbon]

i'm at 18/24 aspects for 32h clear and as my journey ends i'm just now starting to see 5:00 deadline as the true path

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1267234088209879156/1267260337447632896/image.png?ex=66a823a9&is=66a6d229&hm=e99a1514747f648b4a715be2820a881b2e232debaefece802a31fe914910d291& my previous gil attempts both struggled to make the timer and struggled to stay alive. shifting heat into deadline just made everything smoother even with a run that didn't get anything great

[broken echo]

very real

[true oracle]

for 32 heat is taking a common boon (e.g. cast on hera or beowulf) even worth the run?

[ivory drum]

Yes?

Rarity does not really matter that much for 32

[true oracle]

like if it's your "critical" starting boon

ok, thanks

[quiet acorn]

depends on the boon

cast rarities usually never matter since poms do so much more

[true oracle]

i'm talking aphro/pos cast on hera/beowulf

[left prism]

Crush/passion has like a 20 dmg difference in common vs epic no

Or 30 on passion

[true oracle]

ok, i thought i saw another post about pom efficiency being higher for higher rarities

[broken echo]

Starts to matter at like 56+ when every bit of damage matters for banking time for EM4

It’s not

Pom scaling is identical for different rarities

[left prism]

Pom values are the same no matter the rarity yeah

[true oracle]

gotcha

[ivory drum]

People don’t even rarity reset on castpects for sub 5

[true oracle]

I do have the self kill button enabled for the speedrun mod

[broken echo]

A Pom usually makes up the damage and getting the skips is just way more important

[quiet acorn]

does it?

[true oracle]

has anyone accidentally triggered it during a good run before? it seems almost impossible but it would be funny

[broken echo]

On Zeus shield it makes tart feel better

[quiet acorn]

nah

[quiet acorn]

cast rarity ?

[broken echo]

Aphro spec is impossible to play below epic

[broken echo]

Nah, I was more referring to common boons in general

[quiet acorn]

well yes for atk rarity 32+ id reset for atleast rare

playing common atk just feels gross idk

[broken echo]

Yeah

[true oracle]

also i guess i'm used to flat damage being super important because it multiplies with % bonus, but cast builds usually have less % bonus than attack

[quiet acorn]

doom rarity matters a lot

for zeus anything is fine since you mostly rely on jolt so jolt rarity matters more

for dio you can just pom the difference out

[true oracle]

people really talk up jolt a lot

[ivory drum]

Jolted is goated

[true oracle]

so like, is it mostly about getting it to multiproc?

[broken echo]

Nah

Enemies just attack so much that it becomes a significant portion of your damage

[true oracle]

like if dad is shooting his beams while you're constantly smacking hiim with lightning, is he taking that 100 damage multiple times per second

[broken echo]

No

That would count as one attack

[true oracle]

oh that's too bad

[broken echo]

Yeah

[quiet acorn]

it goes a bit crazy on those aspho blue guys

[true oracle]

what about witches shooting 5 shots in a row, 5 or 1 attacks?

[quiet acorn]

for the most part most stuff count as only 1 atk

[true oracle]

oh, so i guess forced overtime 2 is like a 44% damage buff for jolted

[quiet acorn]

yeah lol

[true oracle]

is the boon that makes jolted not go away for x seconds really really good then?

[left prism]

Not really

You are already applying jolted on your own super fast

Is funny for em3 tho

[forest token]

Cold fusion is good if your jolted source sucks lmao

Sucks as in don't proc often

Like electric shot or heavens vengeance

[hardy garden]

Its nice against armored strongbows

[broken echo]

Which is rare because Zeus is best on fast attacks anyways lol

[forest token]

Yeah lmao

[quiet acorn]

i think thunder dash is slept on

[true oracle]

does the zeus dash hit enemies along the entire dash like athena/pos, or at only one end of the dash like aphrodite/dio?

because a big part of my dash choice is i like it to be good for killing the little rats in styx and athena/pos seem great for that

[left prism]

Just one zap

[quiet acorn]

what weapon are you running

they usually are never a problem

[true oracle]

never a problem? MFers spawn inside of me

i hate dealing with them on hera bow

other builds can often cast to eliminate them, but that doesn't work on hera
and if you're not careful they interupt your attack

special can help, though i've often sold that boon as uc fodder

a good dash goes miles towards solving the problem

[quiet acorn]

why do you want a boon on ur special to kill them

[true oracle]

snow burst helps a lot if you managed to get it

[quiet acorn]

they have 1 hp

[true oracle]

mainly just to give it some aoe like zeus for eg

mb i should just stand in one corner and spam special tho

[quiet acorn]

most dashes should get them

[true oracle]

yeah, like dash to one end of the room, take 3 damage from a rat i didn't see, more rats spawn, dash to the other side, take 3 damage, dash again, encounter over

[left prism]

If you have aphro could always try take dying lament too

[true oracle]

hmm, exploding chainbomb rats, interesting

does peer pressure accomplish that or do they die before they can spread it

[left prism]

They literally have 1 hp

Also peer pressure kills your hangover dmg

[true oracle]

ok i thin kthat answers another question i had
if you have multiple hangover sources, does using a weak one to 'fill up' the 5 stacks an opponent can have mean you can't then apply stacks of a stronger hangover?

[left prism]

New stacks delete older ones

[true oracle]

ok, so if you're using dio call, don't spam dio attack while you do it

[left prism]

Exactly

You only want 1 source of hangover ideally tho

[true oracle]

that might explain why i've found dio call to be weak compared to people talking it up here

[quiet acorn]

yeah lmaoo

[left prism]

Tfw my 15 dmg hangover stacks get replaced by the 6 dmg ones

[true oracle]

festive fog is safe though right? it doesn't have hangover

[left prism]

Yeah

[broken echo]

4 damage stacks from dash

[true oracle]

so im finding the main difficulty spike in the heroes fight isn't EM3 but FO2

especially when asterius does the invulnerable dash instead of the regular one, is there a specific pact taht enables that or is it just random?

[hardy garden]

Wdym invulnerable dash like the rocket bullrush

[true oracle]

sometimes when he does the bull rush it's normal, and sometimes he has the invulnerable shield around him

and (this part may be just based on my limited experience) seems to hit pillars less while the shield is up

[hardy garden]

You sure you arent just accidentally phasing him during the bull rush

[true oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-spongebob-squarepants-wow-mindblown-gif-13169052

that'd do it

[steel summit]

I always just try to fight Asterius close to walls so the charge doesn't obliterate me

[hardy garden]

Yeah its a lot better than using the pillars

[steel summit]

Pillars are so useless, Asterius will just circle strafe them whenever he feels like it I swear

[hardy garden]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/912829774248955904/Hades_2021-11-23_14-05-01_Trim.mp4?ex=66a8be39&is=66a76cb9&hm=c9c9b38e2a853b4de448d39ed6f3ed63ed4a47b4648f2c97de4db4e37b66e93e& the asterius experience

[steel summit]

The most Asterius moment I've seen

[broken echo]

Real

[true oracle]

i still don't know how the asterius charge works, and it's only gotten worse with FO2

I THINK it's more likely to make asterius hit a pillar if you stand in front of it and then dash through it right before he hits you

as opposed to standing behind it

[forest token]

yeah you wanna dash through it

otherwise he just goes around

[surreal heron]

generally the most consistent strategy is to stand next to a wall and dash so that he collides with it.

[true oracle]

oh so literally just how you beat charging bosses in every other game

guess the pillars were a trap 😄

[hardy garden]

asterius run around pillar, cant run around wall

[quiet acorn]

I just tank it

Works every time

[forest token]

pillars can work in a pinch

so does tanking it lmao

[broken echo]

Just save acorn for that tbh

[hardy garden]

Call iframes

[sly cove]

watching the 64 eris run im so confused how does he get kiss of styx post lernie

[quiet acorn]

if you lose tooth a bug lets u refill it

[sly cove]

how long have we known this

[quiet acorn]

quite a while i think

[sly cove]

cuz ive never seen it

oh do u have to keep tooth on

im an idiot ok that makes sense

i always did keepsake before well

[quiet acorn]

bad

always sellwell and charon well before keepsake

holy sht c30 i wouldve crapped my pants

[sly cove]

do you keep the slot to be refilled afterwards

[quiet acorn]

not sure

[sly cove]

also wtf 6 mins for styxsuperdad is crazy

i dont see the dps

oh i see it

classic highroll i knew there would be splitting bolt

[quiet acorn]

jolt would do more than splitting

[sly cove]

would it really

like raw jolt no poms

[quiet acorn]

no

actually epic might

im not rly confident on the numbers tbh dpsmeter mod would help

[sly cove]

gut tells me splitting outdamages epic jolt by a bit

but idk

how did that 1hp live even work ???

taking 2 hits the entire dad fight is crazy tho

[sly cove]

can u not die during a call or smth

like ik invulnerability but timer should still bypass right

last time i checked timer kills u instead of doing chaos

[quiet acorn]

wtf is the ending

[quiet acorn]

cant

[sly cove]

but it still hits u??

[quiet acorn]

athena call does the same thing iirc

and the legendary as well

[sly cove]

wack

[true oracle]

so say you have keepsake for your required boon for your build
you get hammer first
next chamber's selections are your keepsake god, and another god you need for your build
you should generally pick the other god, because that guarantees both gods you need for your build, without requiring other gods keepsake, freeing you up to take one more biome's worth of utility or defense keepsake

at least that seems like the reasonable strategy, but I think the speedrun mod punishes this, since it gives the 4 boon choices for your secondary god, instead of primary

[quiet acorn]

Not exactly punishes, you just lose out on an extra bonus that you didn't have in the first place anyway

[true oracle]

true
in my case the 'secondary' god was artemis on hera bow
I'm usually going for something like support fire, exit wounds, pressure points, which can't roll if you get the 4 options from speedrun mod

although i guess that only costs 1 reroll to bypass

[quiet acorn]

Unless you are running ap there's no harm in taking the arty first

[ivory drum]

Arty attack on Hera is the best option for attack on Crush Shot Hera

[true oracle]

I was going to run AP, but I decided to do something less painful instead, like bathing in thumbtacks, or getting a paper cut under a fingernail

[true oracle]

for real? I've been taking aphrodite attack on crush shot hera when I can get it, for the insane dps (especially with flurry)

arty has been my backup though, although I generally don't consider attack to be top priority

[quiet acorn]

Both work

[true oracle]

i had a run where I couldn't get any of my cast buffs but got some chaos attack buffs and epic aphrodite attack on flurry, just attacking was enough dps to save the run

[ivory drum]

Honestly, you usually just take the first epic % you feel find

[true oracle]

yeah, that's probably good

[quiet acorn]

You don't see much epic % atk

[true oracle]

maybe also dio attack if i'm not using the dio call
i've had a could with demeter epic attack that went well
not so sure about athena though

[left prism]

Athena/dem have similar values

[forest token]

No clue but my guess is until you leave the room

[uncut mist]

@forest token is this 32 heat good?

HL1
LC2
CF1
EM4
BF2
MM
UC
FO2
TD2

[quiet acorn]

what is HD

[uncut mist]

hard labor

[quiet acorn]

ah

HL

[hardy garden]

I wouldnt be doing em4 fo2, better to take td3 and bump up hl or lc instead of em4

[uncut mist]

i see

i took td2 instead of td3 cause of em4

i made it hl3 and dc2 instead of em4

[left prism]

Which weapon are you trying

[uncut mist]

chiron

[left prism]

I wouldn't do dc2

[forest token]

Why not just take lc4 sd