h1-story-discussion

[livid bay]

Aphrodite and nyx can get it I guess 😏 😂

I mean according to the Trojan war origin story, Aphrodite has to be pretty hot anyways

[atomic forge]

isn't she attractive according to... everything?

[slim star]

and aren't a lot of her myths about people claiming to be more beautiful than her?

[austere stirrup]

then they die

[marble loom]

So I finally did it. I finally beat Hades and managed to reach Persephone, even if only for a short while. And now that I'm back at the House of Hades, why does Hades act like he doesn't remember me beating him and seeing Persephone?

[hard rose]

he's tryna be in denial. do it again to rub it in

[zenith wedge]

why would he admit you killed him

[marble loom]

P.S. it took me using God mode to beat him though

[hard rose]

it's ok he doesn't have to know

[tender oxide]

you're a god, thats normal mode for a god

[cerulean zodiac]

For the final || Skelly statue || do I need to go up one heat a time to reach 32 or can I just jump straight up? Highest heat I’ve done is 17 and still finding it relatively alright.

[zenith wedge]

you can do the jump

you can do the same for the other 2 statues

[cerulean zodiac]

How difficult would it be? I’m currently using Aspect of Nemesis for the sword.

[cerulean zodiac]

Damn 😂I grinded it one level at a time

[placid plinth]

if you haven't completed the story yet you can cheese 32 heat :^)

its what i did on my new file that I just started

[cerulean zodiac]

Completed the story a long time ago unfortunately. I’m just looking to wrap up Skelly’s statue before I get the final achievement.

[placid plinth]

if you're not used to higher heats I would recommend that you pick a safer aspect

nemesis is a good weapon, its just that its really unsafe compared to some other options, and if you're not very good at it you will take more damage with it than you would on something else

[cerulean zodiac]

Up until Heat 16 I’m usually coming out with all of my DD and about 3/4 to 1/2 of my health using it. Reckon I’d be alright or what would you switch to?

[placid plinth]

heat doesn't scale linearly

each additional point of heat you add is harder than the last

if you just want to clear 32 heat once, maybe something like chiron

it depends on what weapon you feel most comfortable with

this is super old advice but its still good to read over:
#h1-high-heat-strategies message

[jaunty beacon]

Dusa's so sweet tho

[modest loom]

Bruh

[solid lotus]

One of the most magical moments for me in the entire game was when, having only played Transistor and not knowing that Supergiant uses the same people a lot, I first walked into Eurydice's chamber and recognized Ashley Barrett's voice from Transistor. I screamed. Such a good time.
https://youtu.be/aTg6y2l4duk

[zenith wedge]

We all love ashley barrett

[austere stirrup]

factual.

[atomic forge]

Is it storywise worth playing after the ||credits||?

Anything especially interesting?

[frozen jolt]

there might be quite a bit, depending on what you managed to do before the credits

[atomic forge]

I beat the game with every weapon and gave every character at least 1 gift but I didn't complete any relationships

[frozen jolt]

but you can get the epilogue, and forge a bond with everyone, etc

[atomic forge]

There's an epilogue?

[frozen jolt]

yep

[atomic forge]

Hmmm

Would you say its worth it?

[astral birch]

I've unlocked quite a few of the House Contractor things and I'm starting to get some side-quests now, I have stuff like Darker Thirst, Nectar Vintage and such left, I'm thinking Darker Thirst or Keys for Fated is worth getting next, thoughts?

[frozen jolt]

if you enjoy playing the game and liked the story

[atomic forge]

Hmmmm

[frozen jolt]

i would save up for vanquishers keep over darker thirst, fated keys are definitely worth it though

[vital bear]

|| the end game interactions flesh out the story and give you a lot of new boss dialog ||

[atomic forge]

About how long does it take?

Longer than beating the game 10 times or shorter

[vital bear]

Longer

[atomic forge]

Oof

[vital bear]

I have like 57 attempts and haven't finished even one. But you can get them done earlier

I just missed a few opportunities to talk to or gift people

[atomic forge]

I guess not giving nectar to everyone was a big mistake?

[vital bear]

I mean not a huge one, you can just get more

I only gave it to gods at first

But I'm not an expert on hades relationships XD

[atomic forge]

The only ones that I focused on gifting a lot were Skelly, Meg, Thanatos and Sisyphus ;-;

[vital bear]

That makes sense, I completely ignore skelly until I accidently give him nectar while smacking him about

[atomic forge]

When you say longer you mean much longer?

[zenith wedge]

the mental image of this is funny

[vital bear]

I guess it really depends, there are thousands of interactions. Some people say even part of the development team hasn't seen all of them

[vital bear]

XD he just begs to get smacked and im like oh no my nectar

[night abyss]

Why doesn't Zag just swim through the Styx? Or at least get a boat for after he escapes. It's been established he can continue to exist around the styx without dying, so why not?

[vital bear]

|| you ever borrowed money from cheron before? ||

[night abyss]

I have. I never said steal his boat

[vital bear]

But that's why you just don't mess with his domain in general

[tender oxide]

Not sure how much it holds up in hades but if you go by the Hercules interpretation the hands in the river Styx can grab and drag you down

[rancid field]

^ that's how we go when we do die

it kinda pulls zag under in the little animation

i agree with Smokey that i don't think Charon would permit it

assuming it's possible which probably isn't

river magicks

[proud yacht]

Well technically Persephone used Charon to leave the underworld initially, so I think he’s able to

[vital bear]

Charon has control over the river styx and can ferry souls whichever whay he chooses.

[tender oxide]

She had Charon boat her up, and it's a bit of a different circumstance considering the respect and authority she has in the underworld

[proud yacht]

Zagreus even asks Charon to do it for him, but Charon just kinda
Y’know

[vital bear]

He asks several times

To which Charon says no

[proud yacht]

No he says hhhhhhhrrrrrrggggggg

[vital bear]

Well implies no

He made the sound that doesn't mean yes, but you're right he doesn't explicitly say no

[tender oxide]

I'm also not sure how you'd swim up the rivers in asphodel or Elysium

[vital bear]

Very precariously

[proud yacht]

Asphodel you’d just burn
Elysium you’d forget what you’re doing

[tender oxide]

It's also a little.. cloudy

[vital bear]

Pretty sure the souls of the dead are the real issue here thoughb

[rugged bough]

Also the Styx seems to flow back down towards the house of hades so I guess you’ll need a bunch of hermes boons and fireproof swimsuits

[night abyss]

Consider: Exit the hades boss fight, and set up a regular raft and just paddle upriver like a mortal. Unless the styx stops being part of the underworld at some point after where Persephone's cabin exists, it should be fine

[tender oxide]

also consider: magma river

[night abyss]

The magma river in inside of the underworld, if he enters the river after beating Hades, he's already past the magma river and in the water portion of Styx that still seems to be Styx but also apparently mortals can still cross it. There'd be problems if they had a river running through the islands that no one could cross

[modest loom]

Greek mythology is full of problems

[rugged bough]

River starts as water, becomes clouds, then lava, then blood. I shoulda paid more attention in geography class

[haughty summit]

What I don't understand about Greek mythology is why are are so many gods

Why does Hera, the goddess of marriage exist when Aphrodite exists???

Why do both Phobos and Deimos exist?? Why not just one of them?

Why does Dionysus exist? He's also counted as God of the grape harvest, but why? Demeter exists and she's goddess of the harvest

[tiny sequoia]

Because redundancy is the key to an effective network

Plus this stuff causes fights which are good for story

[haughty summit]

True

Demeter said to me one time that she was considering ruining Dionysus' grape harvest for the season just to make him mad

I love the dialogue in this game so much

[night abyss]

Well, in Mycanean Greece, and probably before it, Dionysus was a god of madness first (And to the orphic folks he was a chthonic god of death and rebirth first), and the wine thing was secondary as intoxication was seen as connecting to him. And also the wine of the time had hallucigenics added too it, so that probably was related. Hence why in his stories he can inflict hallucinations and turn people into animals, cover buildings in snakes, that kind of thing. And also why his followers ritually tore people to pieces, including Orpheus himself. They're all lingering remnants of his older roles in mythos

Wine and parties just appealed more to the high society of Greece, so converting fully to wine allowed him to keep existing, and the post Alexander the great rulers really wanted to have divine blessing to do nothing but party and enjoy money

[haughty summit]

Well, how Orpheus dies depends on the variation of the story, no? I've heard several ways he dies

[night abyss]

true

[haughty summit]

Ripped apart by wild beasts, hit with a lightning bolt by Zeus, etc

I didn't know that the people who killed Orpheus in that variation of the story were followers of Dionysus

[night abyss]

BTW, this whole "death and rebirth" thing is how he got associated with Zagreus. Who's canon Greek mythos is almost completely unknown, because there's very little reference to him in surviving references. Things about him range from being Dionysus to being "Greatest of all gods"

[haughty summit]

Yeah, I can't find very much about Zagreus compared to other gods

[night abyss]

No one can

[haughty summit]

I've heard that zagreus may be the god of blood

I'm not sure

[night abyss]

In Hades the game, yes, in canon, no one really knows

[proud yacht]

I still like the Hades interpretation of “All Orphic myth was an elaborate prank by Zagreus and Dionysus”

[haughty summit]

Sorry, I'm stupid- what does Orphic mean?

[proud yacht]

Anything Orpheus says

[haughty summit]

Ohhh

So like the tale of Orpheus never happened?

[proud yacht]

The Eurydice thing.

?*

[haughty summit]

Ye

My brain isn't good rn I'm gonna be honest

[proud yacht]

Well no that wasn’t a prank by Zagreus

It was a prank by Hermes

[haughty summit]

Ohhh

[night abyss]

Orphic isn't a term used in game btw

[proud yacht]

Yeah it’s an actual mythology term

Like
Mycenaean
Which is a pain to spell

[haughty summit]

True

[night abyss]

It really is

[hard rose]

hi hydra

[haughty summit]

Orphic is much easier to spell

[hard rose]

how are you typing?

[haughty summit]

Don't worry about it

[proud yacht]

Using the spikes

[solid lotus]

Poor Lernie just gets boned over and over

[haughty summit]

My poor son

[solid lotus]

Wait you’re the Lernaean Bone Hydra, father of... the Lernaean Bone Hydra?

[haughty summit]

Mayhaps

[solid lotus]

Is each head a relative

[tiny sequoia]

Wouldn't be the most confusing family tree in Greek myth

[hard rose]

Maybe they're the original hidden head from which all the heads we fight spawn

[proud yacht]

Persephone is Hades’s Niece

[solid lotus]

Cursed knowledge

[hard rose]

in the myths yes

Niece born from his brother and sister, to be exact

the devs reaaaalllly went out of their way to un-curse it

[haughty summit]

Mhm

[proud yacht]

“Demeter is his FOSTER-sister! Promise!”

[hard rose]

• bumping up Demeter's apparent age to lower the age gap
• cut the sisters away from the brothers (un-cursing Zeus/Hera in the process as well)
• using Demeter's mortal lover as Persephone's dad instead of Zeus

[solid lotus]

I feel like that was kinda unnecessary, like we all get how Greek myths are

[hard rose]

I read "foster" as more of "sworn", as in forming an alliance to get rid of the titans

[proud yacht]

Is Demeter older or Younger than Hades?

[solid lotus]

He still romances Than and Meg at the same time so it’s not like the whole game was retrofitted to modern norms

[hard rose]

because how do you "foster" a siblinghood that involved the brothers being in Cronos' stomach their whole pre-adulthood

[hard rose]

Older in the myths
From oldest to youngest: Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades, Poseidon, Zeus

[proud yacht]

How is the goddess of the hearth older than the Seasons or The Ocean

[solid lotus]

Chad youngest sibling

[hard rose]

don't ask

[solid lotus]

It’s not like the Olympians were inherently associated with those elements at birth. At least in the main brothers case they were chosen later

[tiny sequoia]

Yeah but dating multiple people isn't an abusive dynamic, unlike the other stuff they cut out

[hard rose]

Zeus was spared the Paternal Consumption experience from being the youngest

[solid lotus]

So they’re not really the seasons and ocean themselves

[proud yacht]

I feel like Hestia and Hera got kinda screwed in terms of godhood
Hades got “The Dead” and gemstones
Poseidon got the ocean and horses
Zeus got to be king of Olympus
Demeter got the four season

And then
Hestia is the hearth
Hera is Marriage

[solid lotus]

Hera just exists to exact jealous revenge on Zeus’s lovers/kids

That’s her whole role

Not a great picture of marriage lol

Makes sense that she didn’t join Zeus in the campaign to help Zag tbh

[proud yacht]

Does Hera do anything except be vengeful?

Also, Aphrodite exists, and makes Hera completely irrelevant

[solid lotus]

Well passion and marriage aren’t 100% overlap

But for two main olympians yeah probably too redundant

[proud yacht]

Then there’s Gigachad Apollo, who is god of literally like half the things

[solid lotus]

Based Apollo

Too based to help Zag

[proud yacht]

“Apollo was the god of practically everything – including but not limited to music, poetry, art, prophecy, truth, archery, plague, healing, sun and light (although the god is always associated with the sun, the original sun god was the titan Helios, but everyone forgot about him).”

[solid lotus]

Was gonna say he straight up copyright struck Helios out of the sun

[proud yacht]

Apollo just went up to Helios, said “Move”, and then Helios left

[solid lotus]

I wonder what a good gameplay gimmick for him would have been if “crits via archery” stayed with his sis

[proud yacht]

Deleting enemies from existence

[solid lotus]

Music = make affected enemies dance instead of attacking

[proud yacht]

His boons would just let you remove an enemy completely from a run

[solid lotus]

Maybe as the god of prophecy he could grant extra rerolls

Apollo themed Hades/Crypt of the Necrodancer collab when

[proud yacht]

Oh
My
Gods
Yes

[solid lotus]

Separately, I do think it’s interesting that the Zag family kind of made fun of how dumb the pomegranate scheme was to convince the olympians that Persephone has to be in the underworld a bunch of the time, like they poked fun at that excuse and that the Olympians believed it...
But then we as players are just asked to accept “uhh Zag just kinda dies on the surface and can’t leave the underworld”

As an obvious narrative excuse to keep the replays going

[night abyss]

Fun fact: We don't actually know how the pomegranate seeds were supposed to keep Persephone in the underworld, because we only know that story from one manuscript, and that part of it is torn

[solid lotus]

Interesting! Yeah I was definitely just talking about the Hades story, in which it’s completely fabricated

[night abyss]

<3

[solid lotus]

But that is a cool fact

[night abyss]

<3

[rugged bough]

Aspect of lebron has me dyin

[haughty summit]

Something really cool to me is that if you wear the Myrmidon Bracer when you encounter Patroclus, you get special dialogue

Because Achilles and Patroclus were comrades, but they died in battle. I believe Patroclus died because he had convinced Achilles to let him (Patroclus) lead a charge into battle, which led to Patroclus' death

[proud yacht]

Nope
It was because Achilles refused to fight, so Patroclus put on his armour and fought as him

[haughty summit]

Oh

[night abyss]

Achilles convinced Patroclus to do it iirc

[proud yacht]

I don’t think he convinced him to, Achilles just refused to fight in a war he could’ve ended single handedly

[solid lotus]

Imagine learning combat from someone who’s literally invulnerable

Maybe Zag thought he had to hit everyone in the ankle

[proud yacht]

Why didn’t Achilles’s mother just dip him in the river twice

Like
C’mon

[solid lotus]

I don’t think they knew the weakness until later

Probably couldn’t casually get back into the underworld

And even then it was only ever successfully exploited via divine intervention

[proud yacht]

Just wear really thick ankle guards or something

[solid lotus]

Apollo yeeted the arrow into the ankle so I imagine he could have pierced through anything if he put his mind to it

[proud yacht]

Apollo was probably just mad that there was someone cooler than him

[solid lotus]

Kinda BS that an arrow to the ankle kills the greatest warrior on the planet anyway

Like

Just stop the bleeding

[night abyss]

I heard in some stories it was poisoned

[solid lotus]

I was about to say I hadn’t heard about poison but could be

Would make more sense

[proud yacht]

With how much Artemis fangirls over Achilles, she really must’ve chewed out Apollo for killing him

[solid lotus]

I don’t think she was invested in the Trojan war at the time

I know we’re mixing myth and game here

I’m wrong

She was on the Trojan side too

[proud yacht]

What side was Achilles on?

[solid lotus]

Greek

So she was against Achilles

[proud yacht]

Are the trojans not Greek

[solid lotus]

Troy was in present day Turkey

[proud yacht]

Huh

[solid lotus]

So yeah Artemis was against Achilles

But he wasn’t around until the end so from the perspective of the Hades canon you could say she didn’t know and then was mortified when he died

[night abyss]

Uhh, sort of

[solid lotus]

“Greece” was a bunch of related but separate kingdoms in the myths anyway

[night abyss]

Not just in myths, irl too

The trojans that escaped the burning of troy mythologically went on to found Rome, which made the relations between the Greek city states and Rome rather.... rough.... for awhile

[solid lotus]

“After that wooden horse incident we’re gonna steal all ya gods and rename em”

[night abyss]

Except Apollo, we're not gonna rename him, and we're gonna translate Hermes' name into Latin for no reason

[north sundial]

mythologically it makes sense because where else would you hit achilles

He's literally invulnerable everywhere else

If he doesn't die in one hit there you can make a case for him never dying

[lime bone]

I beat Hades, only to realize this mf has a second health bar

[proud yacht]

Ah yes, the Great Hades Jape

[rugged bough]

Wasn’t the arrow poisoned?

[tender oxide]

Even if it wasnt, someone invulnerable since a very young age would probably go into shock from taking an arrow to the ankle and actually getting hurt

[solid lotus]

Yeah I’m aware, I’m just saying a healthy person wouldn’t normally just die from an arrow to the ankle, so you’d think a warrior in peak condition wouldn’t either.
It’s one of those things where you apply in-world logic to things that are spelled out (a river granting invulnerability) and then apply real-world logic to everything that isn’t. If this were a modern story I’d call bad writing (poison notwithstanding).
But it’s an ancient myth so of course the standards are different, was just an observation

[solid lotus]

This was, after all, his mom’s entire idea lol

Him never dying I mean

[north sundial]

I mean, yeah, but according to them myths, Apollo guided the arrow shot by Paris and given his whole plague god schtick, he probably killed Achilles that way

There's many myths to as if the arrow was poisoned or not - I believe the version that Apollo killed him with super measles that killed him in a few seconds

[solid lotus]

Poison makes it 👌🏻 totally fine I just didn’t know if there was a consensus on that

[north sundial]

'cause why not

[solid lotus]

Such as there can be with myths anyway

[north sundial]

There's actually two myths regarding the origins of Achilles's superhumaness:

1. His mother, Thetis, dips him into the Styx. His mortality is burnt away, leaving only the left ankle (or right, I forget) unaffected. ('cause Thetis was holding onto it) Why didn't she just switch legs and burn the other foot? Probably got interrupted.

2. Thetis goes through a lengthy "mortality-burning" ritual, involving ambrosia and godly fire. As the ritual was almost done, (takes weeks) the dad walks in (as is what often happens in these sorts of stories) and was so shocked at the sight (burning away immortality would've looked like toasting a baby over a fire, I assume) that he denies any claims Thetis makes and Thetis just stopped the ritual, and went back home.

The second version of the myth is somewhat more logical overall - he could've "not gotten hit" due to being 95% immortal and having godliness

And being stupid good at the spear

[vital bear]

It says Achilles dies later due to the wound so im assuming it doesn't heal and festers leading to his death

[night abyss]

Didn't a deity also do that to someone unrelated, including being interrupted

[remote mist]

when || meg appears in your room for the 3rd time and tells you to come here can i go to her and also be with dusa im a man who likes options and also all dialogues ||

just curious

[lament epoch]

yeah

[remote mist]

ty king

[rugged bough]

what did you expect

[fervent hull]

Sooo.... finally found out whom Skelly was sent by. Kinda expected a time displaced group of teens and their dog to do the unveiling and be sworn at as meddling kids. =P

[slim star]

Aww, Orpheus/Eurydice can sing "In The Blood" in Asphodel

[slim star]

Ay, Hades' Lock is finally removed.

[hard rose]

enjoy your dad call

[storm sedge]

https://twitter.com/RyanGrimaldi3/status/1430660644467060746?s=20

Ryan Grimaldi (@RyanGrimaldi3)

https://t.co/EU0z5MQeJz

Twitter · Aug 25, 2021, 10:37 PM

my tier list

[hard rose]

My husband Poseidon would like a word with you :)

[proud yacht]

Tier list of what?

[golden glen]

Boons from gods prob

[proud yacht]

How is Poseidon is d tier but Athena is in S Tier

[tender oxide]

Deflect

Although Poseidon shouldn't be d

[tiny sequoia]

Poseidon and athena are comparable, because they deal less damage but they help you get hit less

[vital bear]

But poseidon doesn't work for melee as well as Athena

[tender oxide]

Demeter is also way too high

She has the most meh boons

[vital bear]

Some of the best duo boons

But yeah that list is confusing for so many reasons

[hard rose]

I like Demeter's QoL boons, and chill is helpful

[north sundial]

it was demeter or hera, can't remember

@vital bear any idea who was interrupted while doing an immortality ritual on a baby?

[night abyss]

Those were the same two I thought it was funnily enough

[vital bear]

Demophon

Bathed in ambrosia

[storm sedge]

athena is the best god and together with demetra is insane,you become immortal

[proud yacht]

Are you high

[vital bear]

Demeter did the thing

[north sundial]

Right

[proud yacht]

How is Athena the best god, she has like 3 good boons

[night abyss]

She's got a ton of good boons?

[vital bear]

ME has people acting funny

She has good duo boons

[night abyss]

Wouldn't call most of them S tier, but they're almost all pretty good as far as I remember, and I don't use ME

Like she's got two boons that restore DD, that's amazing on it's own

[lone mural]

She’s got two??

[north sundial]

Yep

One that gives more health when you revive, one that gives longer invul when yu revive

[proud yacht]

I’m glad this Olympian god of wisdom has 2 boons that serve the function of a well of Charon item

[night abyss]

They serve that function for less than the item costs, possibly free, and have other bonuses for all the dd

[zenith wedge]

also neat interaction with stubborn defiance

[night abyss]

that too

[storm sedge]

she have all you need for become invincible,shields and damage and together demetra recovery always hp

[zenith wedge]

also should be moved to builds-combat no?

[night abyss]

no

[rugged bough]

Athena dash has saved all our asses so many times

Let’s be real

[proud yacht]

Yes that’s one of her 3 good boons

[rugged bough]

That alone makes her S tier lol

I’ve also had quite a lot of fun with her attack on Excalibur, it’s like if you had a giant lightsaber

Throw a little deadly reversal and chefs kiss

[inner hamlet]

if I've started a relationship with meg

can I still do it with than

or was I supposed to build both relationships at the same time

[night abyss]

you can do it with them still dw

[inner hamlet]

oh excellent

[signal thicket]

Spoiler alert, Hades is in Hades

[austere stirrup]

oh no

guys

he spoiled it for everyone

[rugged bough]

he's your dad

O.o

[lone mural]

Holy hell no way

[rugged bough]

relatives help you murder your father

explain a game badly

[golden glen]

Family drama

Even shorter now

[solid lotus]

Name a better joke in Hades than Theseus calling Zag “hell spawn”

[rose axle]

pops

[vital bear]

Dads cape collection

[solid lotus]

I like the hellspawn wordplay more personally but this is a solid answer

[vivid saddle]

zagreus getting looney tune'd everytime he leaves

dude faceplants into a wall and dies

[zenith wedge]

Zag dies to a bear
More at 11

[atomic forge]

So I've just found out there's an ||epilogue|| what's my fastest route of getting to it? I know ||it requires forging bonds with 6 olympians but I've only just managed to get Megaera's bond after 26 runs or so||

[zenith wedge]

Zeus/artemis/hermes/demeter would be 4 fairly easy gods imo
Zeus/artemis favor is havibg dialogues (in zeus case of other gods about him/artemis is having conversations about calisto) hermes favor is talking to him with his keepsake maxed and demter only needs to reach her lock to count for the 6 olympians

[atomic forge]

Fantastic, I'll try and get those four first then! Better pray for some more nectar drops

[modest loom]

Dusa

[solid lotus]

Just... just Dusa?

[modest loom]

Mhmm

[tiny sequoia]

Just trying to make people mad

[plain hatch]

i friggin died when Zag was just like "I KNEW IT ITS ALL JUST CAPES"

Dusa is best girl dont you dare disrespect our best friend like that

[vital bear]

Man aphro though

I got her scroll art in my wall

[hard rose]

Dionysus was the first god I gave more than 1 nectar to, so I thought all the gods would have posters you could unlock

[gritty marlin]

if all the friendly guys you find in elysium asphodel and tartarus are shades, then what are the enemies you encounter?

[tiny sequoia]

There's a lot of lore in the codex about who you're fighting

[night abyss]

Dusa is besta

[foggy sluice]

Pretty drunk right now and I can’t remember—best for aspect of Zeus would be zeus, Artemis and Dinoysis?

[night abyss]

Zeus, Zeus, Zeus and Zeus

[vital hedge]

||Dusa feels very much like trans allegory to me. Am I reading too much into this? Zag asked about her body and she said "the past me, it's as thought it wasn't even me. This is me, now!"||

[tiny sequoia]

that's a valid reading, yeah!

[rain jacinth]

It seems valid yes, but I could see it also being a bit too much reading into it, she was kinda nasty in life until Percius came along

Honestly it's a good reading either way on her.

[vital yew]

How do I get more nectar easily?

[hard rose]

Keep an eye out for the 10 gems to 1 nectar deal

Other than that it's just doing runs (like just about every currency)

and uh Dionysus has a boon that gives you a nectar

[torpid elm]

if you unlocked all mirror traits you can also dump gems into keys then into nectar

[rancid quail]

I love tiny little baby feet, and the references to Zag's tiny feet already being ablaze ||and going out DDD:|| at birth absolutely slay me. 😅

[hard rose]

and that they burned Hades' hands when he was (re?)born

[rancid field]

I read it the same way esp with how she immediately confronts him about how asking about her body is invasive and uncomfy

the language she uses is very familiar

[rancid quail]

Not that it's ever especially polite to ask people questions about their bodies

[full mason]

Not me spending all my nectar on Achilles

[rancid quail]

Like, if you're over age six, it's generally not considered appropriate to just blurt, unsolicited, "So how did you lose your legs?" at a double amputee.

[rancid field]

yeah but asking inappropriate questions about trans people is something that happens all the time, with adults, so it's a very practiced response

[rancid quail]

Yeah, it always bewilders me when grown adults blithely vacate that rule of etiquette for trans people. No, it's none of your business what their body is like!

C'mon, people, you know full well you'd scold your own grandkids for asking a question like that of anyone else!

It's not that hard to mind your own business??

[tiny sequoia]

Seems like typical zag to ask that question though

[rancid quail]

Yeah, the boy's not real good with personal boundaries sometimes. 🤣

[rugged bough]

I have a lot of poly/queer friends and they don’t know that I learned how to speak their language and stop messing up like that because of hades 😶

[full mason]

I definitely see Dusa as Trans

As a trans person

[hard rose]

I also get nonbinary vibes from the game's version of Persephone due to the aversion to Kore (meaning maiden)

[full mason]

I also get trans vibes from Aphrodite and Dionysus

[upbeat willow]

I never really got the vibes from dusa, however they make a whole tonne of sense in retrospect

Dusa for trans aro ace icon :3

[full mason]

Watch me make hcs for all the characters

Imma do it

Im making a Google doc

[tiny sequoia]

Charon give enby vibes to anyone else?

Purple smoke skeleton is very gender

[full mason]

YES

They're an aro ace enby

[tiny sequoia]

:)

[full mason]

Im already on the Fury sisters

Im so happy

[night abyss]

Iirc, Kore can also translate to Girl, or Daughter. Doesn't change much, just thought it was neat

[upbeat willow]

absolutely yes, Charon enby icon

I'm definitely not biased not at all

[night abyss]

It DOES lend credence to a few irl theories about the mythos though, as it feels very much like a word you call someone to avoid their notice, ala the ancient Greeks with Persephone. Because Kore isn't actually 100% confirmed Persephone irl iirc

Mystery cults grumbling

[full mason]

I FINISHED

Zeus and Demeter are the only cishet people in the entire cast

[vivid saddle]

poseidon?

[full mason]

He's bisexual and a xenogender because he's had affairs with males in mythos

[rancid field]

^visionary

[full mason]

Im really happy with all of my hcs

[night abyss]

Is Zeus hetero? I thought he was bi

Also: what is "xenogender" I assume it's unrelated to aliens

[full mason]

You're right!! Ganymede!

[rancid field]

xenogender generally = gender that is not male, female, or related to male/female. most noungender labels you see are considered xenogenders, e.g. plantgender, stargender, similar things

[full mason]

"Xenogender is an umbrella term for non-binary gender identities that cannot be fully described through their relation to concepts typically used to describe gender such as masculinity, femininity, androgyny, neutrality, agenrity, or outherinity. Instead, xenogenders can best be described through how they relate to things, beings, or concepts that most people don't think of as having to do with gender, such as animals, plants, things, or concepts."

Im just happy with my hcs because this has become my new hyperfixation

[night abyss]

I see

[tiny sequoia]

Whats your take on theseus

[full mason]

Non-Binary, Pansexual!

[hard rose]

There's another myth-based comic I'm reading where Demeter is dating Hecate

[rancid field]

gay for minotaurs imo

[full mason]

Wait no I read that as Thantos

[hard rose]

but that's the artists version so

[full mason]

Theseus is gay and cis

He dated Adriane but ended up dating her brother after he died

Im really happy that you guys are curious about it!

[rancid field]

what can i say. i love a good gender

[atomic forge]

posted this in discussion but its probably better here... anyone seen that Mythology Behind Hades video? it's super long but really interesting

[night abyss]

I've not seen it, but I'd like a link

[atomic forge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y4aGe0Y-K0&t=7893s&ab_channel=Ludiscere

here ya go

he goes into every character

I've been watching it bits at a time

[austere stirrup]

i dont think literal gods and these omnipotent omnipresent creatures are bound by stuff like gender

[night abyss]

It seems like some are, some aren't, but most don't care when it comes to mortals

[spiral viper]

hoping for a sequel, feel hades' story could progress further

[inland sierra]

i need dusa's energy everyday in my life

[full mason]

Yeah! But it's fun to headcanon it

[night abyss]

I'm gonna guess that that time Theseus assisted his brother in an attempt to kidnap and marry Persephone didn't happen here?

[hard rose]

Isn't it his friend?

there's a fanfic that makes it happen anyway with current Theseus

And another fan theory that it did happen, and Theseus' punishment after death is precisely to be champion so that he can be beat up repeatedly

[night abyss]

Theseus was... Not a good person... Ever. Starts off kidnapping a 10ish year old Helen to marry, gets locked in the snake chair in the afterlife for trying to kidnap the queen, starts dating adrisomething and abandons her on an island, not a good guy

[north sundial]

Ariadne - Found in the game as Yarn Of Ariadne

[night abyss]

Yeah that. That's the stuff she used to help him

[north sundial]

Also has a voice line if you bring that item into the boss fight

[night abyss]

I heard that line before I knew the myth

[north sundial]

Somewhat fun fact: Ariadne is also Dionysus's wife!

[night abyss]

I know. And it actually went really well as far as I'm aware!

And then Jason compares himself and his magic wife who magics his problems away to theseus and her, which should have been a major red flag

A lot of Greek myth heros have this really bad habit of becoming awful as soon as the main thing they did is complete

[north sundial]

I like it better that way! Easier to convey that heroes aren't perfect and provides moral teaching

Rather than the more infallible gods of the east

[night abyss]

I mean true, but at the same time maybe it doesn't need to be as extreme as "starts dating some random foreign princess to turn his actual wife into a concubine, while neglecting their kids that he called hers until they died"

Speaking of breaking the oath of marriage, Zeus is the god of oaths. Ironic

[full mason]

It makes me sad to think about how the reason Hades probably enjoys Orpheus' music is because it reminds him of Persephone

[atomic forge]

hades is mega thicc

[hard rose]

It runs in the family

[hard rose]

Also see: Ambrosia

[torpid vine]

He did marry Ariadne's sister, so I figure he's bi.

[night abyss]

What part of my message does that invalidate exactly???

[atomic forge]

not cool either

[frozen jolt]

please remember to keep it clean

[tender oxide]

Theseus sat on a rock and got stuck to it, with no strength to get up. He also was told by Athena to flee quickly and leave Ariadne for Dionysus

He still sucked a lot cuz of Helen though

[night abyss]

That's a later version from after Athens became cool and started rewriting things

In the older versions, he kinda just... Left. Dio still married her though

[rancid quail]

Can I simultaneously support all the gender fun in here, and also note that you can be 100% cis female and still object strongly to being named Girl/Daughter? 🤣

I am here for non-binary Persephone headcanons and also that's pretty freaking infantilizing regardless of gender 🙃

[full mason]

Also something that I love in the game was that Hermes KNEW Zagreus didn't want to join them up on Olympus
But , still offered his help

[tender oxide]

Hermes' relations with Charon are why he's helping, and also how he knows Zagreus isn't interested in going to Olympus and that he's gotten out before

[tribal anvil]

I just completed the story. That ending was beautiful

[river herald]

Headcanon: ||Hades himself actually got the Supportive Shade to show up. But it isn't a bribe/paid thing. Instead he got someone who would actually support Zag, and gave them the color and banner to show it. I mean, how else could they have snagged that spot right next to le big chonker spectator?||

[tawdry briar]

Why would he though

[hard rose]

yeah I'm just saying it's one of the possibilities, and Persephone even says in the game that she dislikes it because it feels infantilizing. And Zag objecting to "boy" despite being popularly headcanoned as a trans guy is also Right There

[north sundial]

Supportive dad

[night abyss]

He doesn't actually dislike his son

[inland sierra]

is there any reason that dusa requires more nectar to unlock everything? since when doing meg and than i only needed to give them one ambrosia per locked heart thing but for dusa it kinda ramped up

[night abyss]

You can get it all back later on

[tiny sequoia]

for dusa it's like... zag is also funding the lounge supply of drinks

[rose mica]

What how

[tiny sequoia]

keep talkin to her

[night abyss]

Alecto gives Zag grief for having red blood, but the titan blood item is red

[atomic forge]

maybe that's why

titans aren't exactly popular with anyone

[pallid ridge]

why do zag have red blood tho ?

[open berry]

mostly gameplay reasons, story-wise zag's grandfather was mortal

he's connected with the styx and can't stray too far from it, and the styx is also red, which i suppose is the other story reason red blood appears for characters that return to the house via the styx, like when you take out meg

[hard rose]

Doesn't Hades bleed black though?

[vital hedge]

He does. In myth immortals don't have blood, they have ichor. There's no specific colour to it but it's safe to assume it's not red. Hades is the son oh two titans, whereas in the game, Persephone is the daughter of an Olympian and a mortal, making Zag 1/4 mortal and thus has blood instead of the expected ichor.

Not sure why titan blood is red (or why they didn't call it titan ichor) but it's likely just so it's not confusing for the players who aren't already mythology nerds :)

[rugged bough]

ignited ichor makes you go fast

O.o

wow

they thought of everything

[noble root]

3some unlocked

[pallid ridge]

so to unlock the true ending is it 11 clears (plus one for the first clear) or 10 clears overall?

[tender oxide]

10 overall

[pallid ridge]

okay thanks, im on my third clear for 43 run rn not the best

[tender oxide]

Nah it's good! Takes most people around 50 to get the first, you're on solid pace

[pallid ridge]

ah thanks 🙂

[tawdry briar]

Do you think other mythologies/religions are also real in the hades universe?

Like norse mythology

[tawdry briar]

Would be cool

Like the other gods could all be on the verge of declaring war on eachother

Idk how zagreus would come in

Or if he would come in at all

[hard rose]

it'd be cool if all the other parallel death gods came together and had a panel on how they run their own underworlds

[open berry]

#ask-supergiant message

#ask-supergiant message

dunno if this necessarily answers your question, but the existence of the 4th aspects is meant to imply that greek myth isnt the only thing in the world even within hades canon

[buoyant gorge]

when you finish the game, what triggers the story to go on? keep fighting hades or giving nectar to specific people etc. ?

[zenith wedge]

main story = kill dad
npc specific stories = nectar to characters

oh wait you mean after reaching credits?

[buoyant gorge]

yeah after reaching creds

[zenith wedge]

the last bit of main history (epilogue) is talking to mom, dad and the olympians (so nectar and ambrosia)

[placid cobalt]

||I just want to say ares choices are the reason I got to the top then I failed so bad||

[serene loom]

Tisiphone: "Mrrr... murrr... derr... murrdderr!"
Zagreus: "No, murder. Zagreus. My name is Zagreus! Can you say that, Tisiphone? No murder. Zagreus!"
Tisiphone: "Murr... derr... zerrr..."
Zagreus: "Murderzer!?"

I think that was the funniest joke in the entire game for me

I was caught so off guard

[balmy yoke]

Zag is so too precious

[rancid field]

tis' language lessons are so funny

[tawny elbow]

Friends?

Happy?

Tis:Murrrdderrrerrrr!!

[hybrid bay]

Man y'all can I just say I love Hades music so much

[woven current]

I have already around 50 clears but for some reason I can’t progress Patroclus further. Can’t give him Nectar or anything else. Any ideas?

[vital bear]

Have you progressed with achillies

[hard rose]

and Nyx

[woven current]

as far as I could.. Nyx is finished.

[vital bear]

Well... you haven't done it then lol ? Keep talking to them

[woven current]

Patroclus and Achilles don’t give me new dialogues.

[vital bear]

Have you reunited them ?

[woven current]

this is what im trying to achieve. But I don’t get the option to speak to Achilles about him.

[vital bear]

You litterally just need to talk to them more

Then talk to nyx

You said you weren't getting new dialogue but I've done all these things and am still getting new dialogue

Just keep talking to them sometimes it doesn't happen

[woven current]

ok then maybe it will come with more time.

[vital bear]

Its quite a lot

[woven current]

yeah especially nothing new with Patroclus. I get new stuff with Nyx though.

I know I have to get the contract later on but first I need Achilles to know about him

[vital bear]

You haven't even told achillies about patty?

[woven current]

nope. Never got the option.

maybe i’m missing something

[vital bear]

Its not really an option the dialogue opens up other dialogue

But you can stack multiple

[woven current]

or do you first have to get the true ending? haven’t reunited the gods yet.

[vital bear]

And then it's just luck which one they wanna talk about

Like nyx wouldn't talk to me about dusa for 20 clears cause she was talking about chaos

[woven current]

now when I talk to Achilles I get one liners „good job lad“ and that is it

[vital bear]

You might have to talk to patty more man he has a lot of lines

[woven current]

Hmm. he is just bugged when I talk to him and offers me the choices for the attack bonus etc.

maybe i try again afterwards. did a lot of fast runs to clear high heat

[open berry]

have you equipped the bracer

[woven current]

no. should I ?

[wheat echo]

so I just got the Artemis bond, does it do anything?

[night abyss]

Means Artemis is friend

[wheat echo]

That's it?

[night abyss]

Until much later on, yes

[frozen jolt]

silly question but did you ever check patroclus' codex entry

[woven current]

I maybe didn’t. Perhaps that unlocks new dialogue ?

[rugged bough]

also visit him with the achilles keepsake equipped

he'll comment on it

[frozen jolt]

if his name is still showing up as ???, you cant start the quest to reunite the two since zag hasnt discovered who he is through the codex yet

[woven current]

aaaah! Thank you Alma!!! This I was missing 🙏

[remote cedar]

This was the funniest for me:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/527247562160209940/882541287562153984/8b3.png

If you know you know

[rose mica]

lmao

[tawny elbow]

ggez

[austere stirrup]

lol

[hard nest]

Okay so

With the minimum amount of spoilering

I'm missing ONE artifact of the normal artifacts

The person I'm missing is the final "undiscovered" at the bottom of "others of note"

I thought it was Persephone, but I don't have the option (at least not yet?) of giving her nectar

The only other person I could think of is the other Gate you can enter at certain heats?

Is there some dude I meet there?

[zenith wedge]

you need the credits for the last normal keepsakes

[hard nest]

I see

Is that something I get like, after uncovering the full story, or?

[zenith wedge]

the credits as in finishing the main story so ye

just keep playing and it will happen

[hard nest]

Okee

Wb the gold ones

[zenith wedge]

further your relationship with certain characters

[hard nest]

When do you begin unlocking those?

(to know where I'm at re: spoilers, I've met persephone twice)

(I have full friendship with Cerberus and Charon rn)

Ah I see

Hmm I would have thought hades' hearts would be unlocked by now lol

[rose mica]

still a long way to go

[hard nest]

Holy crap how long is this game

The sheer replayability

BUCK WILD

I adore it

[rose mica]

stay safe from spoilers

[hard nest]

Trying my best haha

I should mute this channel when I'm not asking questions

[solar mountain]

Can someone explain this dialogue to me (no spoilers about further dialogues please)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/689436071909654568/882666401406529566/unknown.png

What does he mean by "you're like me" and how does it even relate to that smiling part

I think I'm missing the connection that Dusa made here

[hard nest]

Okay Orpheus is definitely screwing with me now lol

Zag just told him that Zag and Dionysis was the same guy and Orpheus was like "oh yes! I can see it now! How obvious!"

[rugged bough]

he’s gullible

[tender oxide]

I mean a literal god came up to him and told him something

[hard nest]

Is he not a minor God?

[rugged bough]

Zag and Dionysus are gods

[tender oxide]

Still a god

[rugged bough]

Orpheus is not

[hard nest]

Owo

[tender oxide]

And Dionysus is an Olympian god

[rugged bough]

He’s a dude who could jam

[hard nest]

You ever jam so good that Satan hires you

[rugged bough]

And getting the court musician gig is probably cushy compared to just sitting around in asphodel

[hard nest]

(I know hades is very different from Satan it's a joke dont @ me lol)

Tru

[night imp]

no idea mate

[solar mountain]

well that's very helpful

[night imp]

sorry

[rose mica]

or is he?
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zagreus

[solar mountain]

I mean he's the one who spread that story

[rose mica]

Agreed, but he's not the only one

[tender oxide]

Im pretty sure he's hitting on her, in a bit of a weird way. I think the smiling relates to how dusa makes zag feel

[solar mountain]

I'm still not certain what he's referring to by "you're like me"

in what way?

[hard nest]

Perhaps in the way that they both work hard and try to help people?

[atomic forge]

Man the epilogue grind is a bit of a chore, I'm really hoping the pay off is worth it haha

[crimson obsidian]

nice to see that you get a ||gift from hephaestus||

so they dont completely ignore him in the game

[rugged bough]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYJPMICSPZ8 (the game implies it was just them playing a prank on orpheus, which was a nod to the fact they may have been the same diety, but no one knows really)

they add some stuff to Greek myth canon lol

[somber estuary]

Oh Orpheus totally knows Zag is trolling him but he's playing innocent and pretending he believes everything completely because he realizes Zag is embarrassed by the song he has written about his lies. And now that Hades thinks the song is hilarious and knows it embarasses Zag there is no taking it back.

[hard nest]

I love the Zag and Orpheus dynamics

[inner hamlet]

so orpheus just taught zag to play the lyre

but he still sounds terrible

how much "practice" does it require

[rugged bough]

200ish clicks lol

Do it once or twice before a run

[hollow sable]

Does anyone know how to release the secret aspect of the Spear?

[austere stirrup]

its pinned

[hollow sable]

Sorry I hadn't seen it. Thanks

[atomic forge]

https://scontent.fakl1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/239976436_2969537266593972_3779045749872680142_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=61k7oX6yL4UAX99oIs5&_nc_ht=scontent.fakl1-3.fna&oh=02899d8382cf8523ccaddf99f9365a43&oe=615555B2

Poor Hades, just misunderstood

[pseudo urchin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[hard rose]

Do the other gods not do their jobs though

[frosty ibex]

https://twitter.com/Velinxi/status/1433575577345212421?s=20

Xiao Tong 🦋CTC (@Velinxi)

Met my brother for the first time

Retweets

14452

Likes

71578

Twitter · Sep 2, 2021, 11:40 PM

Would be fun if Zag had a sibling or two

[rose mica]

Now that Persephone's home

[coarse knot]

hey so im pretty sure i learned how to play the lyre

but i didnt get the prophecy

but when i play it it plays for a few secs and it sounds good

so im pretty sure i did it

[frozen jolt]

i believe you have to talk to orpheus? its been a while since i did it

[coarse knot]

he is missing

😦

[frozen jolt]

just do another run, he will come back

[coarse knot]

ok...

[zenith wedge]

I just got post credit zag death with him dying to a goat?

Why are this messages so funny

[frosty ibex]

I got one where he just runs face first into a wall painted to look like the exit

Amazing

[spark silo]

Not certain if this question belongs in discussion or story discussion, but I'm having a bit of trouble forcing Divided By Death prophecy to advance. Both relevant parties (Achilles and Patroclus) are at max allowed favor but I'm 55 clears in and have finished the epilogue and still can't get them to ask for help. All other gods are at locked heart or full bonds - is there a common mistake made here or do I just need to talk to them both for another 10-20 runs to seal the deal?

It's my last achievement remaining and I just can't get them to cooperate xD

[north sundial]

You have to meet patroclus a bit more

[spark silo]

Just triggered it - took 10 more talks with patroclus where he wanted to talk about Theseus before he gave final dialogue line. Wish the relevant lines drifted to the top a bit more xD

[snow dove]

possible idk spoilers: Is Hades himself prevented from leaving the underworld?

[rugged bough]

yep

[snow dove]

My friend is saying ||that hades has basically the same problem if he tries to leave|| and I don't remember this ever being addressed in the regular mythology

[rugged bough]

that’s the whole point, there is no escape

the Disney adaptation is fake canon

[snow dove]

I am not going based on disney

[rugged bough]

hades says he’s tried in one of the pre run cinematic

[snow dove]

In the mythology all I was taught was that Hades was given dominion over the inside of the earth which is also the underworld, and no one said anything about hades being prevented from leaving

hm ok

||so he has basically the same problem as zagreus||

[rugged bough]

but he did presumably leave to get Persephone

ok not as sure as I was a minute ago

[snow dove]

On first defeat he says ||There is no escape||

[rugged bough]

maybe he died and killed Persephone then they respawned in the house? Idk

https://tenor.com/view/fidget-spinner-gif-13433278

[snow dove]

I don't think Persephone ever died

and as an extension of that, I think ||only people who actually died are prevented from leaving the underworld the way zagreus is||

Hermes, Thanatos, and Charon can go where they please because they never died

Zagreus ||is bound to the underworld because he technically died immediately following his birth||

Pretty sure Heracles just walked into, and later, out of, Hades, so he wasn't dead when he came and went

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labours_of_Hercules#Twelfth:_Cerberus this, I mean

[rugged bough]

ah word, good point

[snow dove]

This ignores the fact that you literally ||kill hades just outside of hades during the game||

so it's possible that Hades ||had never died until that point, and therefore was not bound to the underworld until zagreus killed him|| lol

which I think is the best and funniest possible interpretation of the lore

persephone spoilers // ||If Persephone is the half god child of Demeter and a human, and Zagreus is the child of Hades and Persephone, then that makes Zagreus 3/4 godrace, so if Zagreus dying causes him to become bound to the underworld then presumably dying is powerful enough to cause a real god to be bound to the underworld||

[rugged bough]

damn

That actually does make sense

[snow dove]

[dies laughing, becomes bound to the underworld]

[rugged bough]

there is no escape dum dum da dummmmm

[snow dove]

HADES: ||Boy... what have you done?!||

but really Hades is bound to the underworld by massive amounts of paperwork he doesn't trust anyone else to do, so there's no chance of him leaving anyway

[rugged bough]

haha nope

Work isn’t gonna do itself

[frozen jolt]

Hades is bound to the underworld because of his duties to it iirc, not because he is dead. And zagreus is because he was born there, also not because he died

[woven current]

I can’t finish the Patroclus/ Achilles Questline. I have maxed them until the keyhole symbol. Nyx is completely maxed out but I somehow can’t get her to give me the contract to release Achilles. Any ideas ?

[rose mica]

Are Fates older than Hades himself

[naive canyon]

Don't poms also have something to do with it

When tisiphone and Alecto die, where do they go

They can't end up in the house of hades because they're not allowed there

So where else

Same question for asterius and theseus, but for different reasons (hypnos wouldn't need Zagreus to get asterius' signature)

[open berry]

not in the game lore

[last trench]

Should dussa be taking 3 ambrisia bottles ?

Last time she took 2

I've never seen any other character do this.

[zinc spade]

Yes, that’s normal || you get the chance to get all the bottles back at some point ||

[last trench]

||Chance?||

[tender oxide]

Option, you can pick whether you want them back or not

No effect on the story

[last trench]

🤨 So.. why wouldn't I want them back?

[jolly sphinx]

maybe you want dusa to have em 🤷‍♂️

[last trench]

It's not like she's gonna get state boost of them.

[frozen jolt]

the reason dusa takes more ambrosia is because youre helping her stock the lounge

[last trench]

oh

[visual bane]

Bro

any tips for getting solo asterius to pop

Been through 12 complete runs with fists

[sinful hollow]

||i now have both a boyfriend and a girlfriend, bisexuality achieved ||

[snow dove]

was Thanatos born in hades? he seems to come and go as he pleases although admittedly he never spends very long on the surface (other than the one incident with Sisyphus)

but actually in relation to the Sisyphus incident, if he had died while trapped on the surface, presumably he would have ended up back in the pool of blood

unless the version in the game mythology is that Sisyphus chained up Hades instead of Thanatos

I don't think the game specifies who's Thanatos' father was or physically where he was born, so it's possible that for the sake of internal consistency they had it so that Thanatos, the one loose end in the whole "there is no escape" thread, was simply born somewhere other than Hades

looking at another source, one alternative myth is that Sisyphus trapped Than in some location within Hades, but if that was the case then why wouldn't Hades just free him himself? in what way would that be cheating death other than just upsetting Hades, who now has to rescue Than, and buying only a couple more days?

[hard rose]

so here's my fan theory: the only two people that are really "bound" to the underworld via the death-by-Styx are Hades and Zag. This is based off the observation that Hades doesn't share a skin color with his brothers, and his brothers don't have the black eyes that he does. So my theory is that Hades used to have similar eyes and skin color to his brothers (or one of the shades on his arms in his regular sprite), but through taking control of the underworld it changed to how he looks like currently. So, in trading for control over the underworld despite not being born of the realm (ie "artificially" gaining its power), the cost is that now he's bounded to the realm. Similarly, Nyx's work to revive Zag was similar to what Hades underwent when he took over, with the concept that, through the same process, Zag can also be allowed to exist within the underworld while being genetically from the surface. This feeds into my side theory that Zag was born with two green eyes and gained the red eye through his revival, and also explains why, in the game, he can manipulate room rewards and alter pacts, since he did gain a portion of his father's power.

[snow dove]

That's largely consistent with what I was thinking. Does this mean that if not prevented from leaving, people from the surface who died (Sisyphus, Theseus, Asterius, Achilles, Patroclus) could simply walk away without suffering ||the Zagreus style consequences of simply expiring?||

[hard rose]

I think they need to run the gauntlet that Zag needs to do every escape, and if they manage to survive that (and beat Hades somehow) they probably get to leave?? The game kind of leaves it up in the air since Zag asked Persephone if Eurydice could have actually been revived if Orpheus stuck to his instructions and she said something like "idk but we wanted to give him a chance" (can't remember clearly whoops)

[rose mica]

I feel this applies to all the shades

[kindred shale]

they probably dont have to fight hades in the end though

[austere stirrup]

these are some long ass messages in this channel

[night abyss]

Not really, they're like 2 paragraphs at most

[jolly sphinx]

for denizens of the internet that's a lot

[night abyss]

I'm a denizen of the internet, and I'd disagree. I find it weird how many people on the internet despise reading, considering the internet is primarily text based

[jolly sphinx]

🤷‍♂️ lol

lotta messages are pretty short in length with them funny abbreviations.

[austere stirrup]

Laughing Out Loud.

[night abyss]

Reminder that abbreviations and acronyms predate the internet. Examples of both include Mr. And NASA. I bring this up because I've seen a shocking number of people forget that

[lapis mountain]

Don't forget that the @ symbol was likely created by medieval monks as a form of shorthand so that they didn't have to write "ad" (the Latin word for "at/toward") all the time

[austere stirrup]

back to hades story discussion when

[hard rose]

when someone has something to say about the story LOL

[austere stirrup]

😔

[drifting crypt]

Okay can zag bang dusa, megara , and thanatos at the same time?

[night abyss]

Yes, but actually no

[drifting crypt]

Come on

sad

[night abyss]

You can pursue relationships with all 3 at once

[drifting crypt]

thats something

[night abyss]

Dusa is just in the camp of not having sex. Otherwise known as "probably ace gang"

[hard rose]

the stuff here isn't even as long as some of the build guides in the gameplay channels

[night abyss]

?

[hard rose]

she also says she doesn't get romantic feelings iirc

[hard rose]

wrt to someone saying that there are long-ass messages here

[night abyss]

Oh

[austere stirrup]

I said one thing and a whole ass war started over it

[night abyss]

Yes

[austere stirrup]

fine the messages are not long

🥸

[night abyss]

What is that emote supposed too mean

[austere stirrup]

absolutely nothing

that's why it's good

because it's free for interpretation

[night abyss]

I see

[drifting crypt]

he is calling you a nerd

[night abyss]

Well that is true so

[austere stirrup]

perhaps

or maybe i am implying that i am actually wearing a mask while saying the messages are not long which actually means that i do not believe in these words

making me the imposter

ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

[night abyss]

hits the eject ooga button

[solid blaze]

Read a fan theory that Hades was sacrificed by his brothers in order to take over the underworld. He had to be "dead" to do it. It would help explain the bad relationship, his skin color being different, and why he can't have an heir.

[tender oxide]

The game references that hades drew the short end of the stick and got the underworld, and its meant pretty literally. Zeus Poseidon and Hades drew lots to decide who gets what realm. Im pretty sure SGG took creative liberty in order to make the story of the game work, since the reason Zag tries to escape is to see Persephone. There are some stories of other children of hades (Macaria and Melinoe), but they arent talked about often as the greeks and dont appear in many stories or anything

Doubt they actually killed him

[jolly sphinx]

Hades just doesnt get enough sunlight. So vitamin D deficiency and no suntan

[tender oxide]

yep, comparing him to other chthonic gods he's the same color (more or less)

[last trench]

||I have no idea why but the huntress godess thingy refuses to give me the hidden aspect of the bow and the bull refuses to tell me the hiden aspect of the fists. What are the chances for these guys?||

[austere stirrup]

did you invest enough blood?

[fallow halo]

You can do what I did and start with the Artemis keepsake and keep giving up until she gives you the bow dialogue

I only had to do it twice

Asterius usually isn't until Chamber 30

[solid blaze]

Probably. I just thought it was an interesting theory.

[tender oxide]

very true, it is interesting tbh

Also heard people theorize Zag's red eye is from his revival and binds him to the underworld, could have grounds with hades having two or something

[solid blaze]

Makes for a great excuse for the bad blood (HA!) between the siblings.

[solid blaze]

I like that. In order to revive him Nyx made a deal with the fates and bound Zag?

[tender oxide]

Probably, its a nice one

||Its likely just to highlight that nyx isnt zag's mom from the start but theories are fun||

[solid blaze]

Canonicaly makes sense too.

Yes. I can see that. ||I wondered why he never questioned that he didn't look at all like Nyx and his 'brothers' Hypnos and Thanatos.||

Also, Achilles is best dad. Just my opinion.

[glass compass]

why spoiler text in a story discussion channel lmao

[tender oxide]

I call achilles and pat's room the dad chamber

dads coming in to save the run

[solid blaze]

@glass compass I felt like it?

[solid blaze]

Hell yes. I am a huge Achilles/Pat fan now.
This game has had me researching a ton and I love it. The little references and details are amazing.

[light onyx]

I love it when Achilles started punching a river

[hot shuttle]

Is Nyx Than’s mother?

Because I could have sworn she was but that just can’t be right

[upbeat willow]

Nyx is Than, Hypnos' and Charon mother in Hades, yes

[hot shuttle]

But then… who’s the mother of the furies?

[tiny sequoia]

There's a lot of fury origin myths... nyx doesn't give motherly vibes to meg, from what I can tell

[hot shuttle]

I thought Nyx was supposed to be the mother of the furies. But after seeing the uhh… cutscene with Meg and Than in Zag’s room… I really hope that’s not the case

[jolly sphinx]

greek mythology moment

[rose mica]

When anyone in Hades says fates have decided this
I imagine the Furies on a round table taking decisions

[tender oxide]

Their parents are the Titans Gaea and Uranos, and they came to be from Uranos' blood after he got beaten up. Probably why they drop titan blood

[hot shuttle]

Oh thank god

I just didn’t want Meg to be related to Than after that cutscene

[tender oxide]

Fun fact Aphrodite is also their daughter, from a different body part!

[last trench]

🤨 There was a cutseen? I just saw a black screen with some sounds

[jolly sphinx]

dont worry. all of you are related to chaos

[tender oxide]

Dw, even if they were sgg took creative liberty to remove a lot of the incest from greek mythology

[last trench]

Chaos is my favorite god in the game

[hot shuttle]

You gotta play for a while to get the one I’m talking about. It’s where they’re both there

[hot shuttle]

Very cool

[last trench]

I know. Meg just shows up in your room after you develop your relationship and you are given 2 choices

[hot shuttle]

Yeah I’m not talking about that one

[last trench]

Oh

Ok than

[hot shuttle]

||Again, I said Than and Meg are both there||

[tender oxide]

IE Demeter and hades being siblings making Persephone Hades' niece. SGG changed it so that Demeter was born from 2 other Titans, not Rhea and Chronus

[last trench]

||Oh! I'm on my way there, since I;m also developing relationship with Thanos.||

[hot shuttle]

Thanos

[jolly sphinx]

i friendzoned everyone

[last trench]

I didn't to keep in line with Greek Mythology's theme

[hot shuttle]

It did literally take me over 400 runs before I saw it, so I wouldn’t get too excited

[last trench]

🤷‍♀️ I wasn't expecting the thing with Megra and Thanos alone

[tender oxide]

Just get good rng

[last trench]

I pretty much maxed out Thanos

Actually I pretty much maxed out everyone in the house

[hot shuttle]

Ok so you’re calling him Thanos on purpose, huh

[last trench]

Thanos isn't his full name?

[tender oxide]

Thanatos

[hot shuttle]

I maxed out everyone in the game like 250 runs ago but I still only just now saw that cutscene

[last trench]

Oh...

[hot shuttle]

Lmao

[tender oxide]

Thanos would be cool though

Companion gives you the infinity gauntlet

[last trench]

The what guntlet?

[hot shuttle]

[last trench]

ey! an emoji of Bouldy

[tender oxide]

Marvel movie thing, related to Thanos

[last trench]

🤔 Can't say I know what you're talking about

[hot shuttle]

If you don’t watch Marvel, you still have to remember Infinity War and Endgame. It was a cultural phenomenon

[last trench]

🤨 The what?

[hot shuttle]

I guess you could live in a country that doesn’t really do that kind of stuff

[last trench]

Let me check

[hot shuttle]

Endgame is literally the most grossing film of all time

[rose mica]

[last trench]

🤔 Ok so there's a big purple guy called thanos in a movie called avengers end game that came in 2019.

I guess that's where the guntlet thing comes from?

[hot shuttle]

Again, the top grossing film of all time, so it’s kinda hard to not know what it is

[tender oxide]

Yep, he has a gauntlet he uses for things best summed up by this emote

[last trench]

I.... kinda been out of the loop when it comes to non video games stuff since 2012

[tender oxide]

Tldr purple man collects rocks to put on glove to become god

[last trench]

I see. I can see the use of it.

[rose mica]

Solves the problem of overpopulation

[last trench]

🤔 I don't think that''s gonna solve population issue when the guy infront of you is already dead

[tender oxide]

Tbh I like how hades doesn't really have an antagonist in the way a lot of other games do (excluding the minor enemies in rooms, and even then they're just doing their part to keep everyone in)

Hades himself is arguably one but he's just upholding his duties to the realm

[last trench]

Anyone who stands against the heroes goal is the antagonist.

||Hades changes role in story after a while thou||

[tender oxide]

Sure, but in they're not really bad guys

[last trench]

Yeah. Bad guy isn't nesseserily an antagoonist

[tender oxide]

Not like some other games with an overarching villain with bad goals

[last trench]

🤣

[tender oxide]

Some games do it really bad too, I'm bad man so I do bad things >:)

[last trench]

Mostly the main bad guys in alien games do this

[buoyant gorge]

I finished hades where I already saw the credits, who’s side story should I unlock?

or does the main story still go on and naturally happen after I continue to do runs

[austere stirrup]

you have to start forming bonds with gods

to progress the main story

[buoyant gorge]

okay!

which gods do you recommend I form bonds with

[austere stirrup]

it doesnt really matter

i guess aphro is the hardest

because she has a favour to complete

[buoyant gorge]

okay

does forming a bond with hades do anything?

[austere stirrup]

i think you get the em4 pact

not sure about that tho

[cyan estuary]

I usually go w the flow and adapt aas i look thru the boon log to get duo and legendary

That pact of punishment kicking me in the rear

[ivory hare]

I have a question… how did you people react when you entered Eurydices chambers, but she wasn’t singing

[cosmic jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/shawn-spencer-james-roday-feels-wrong-doesnt-feel-right-psych-gif-10449364

I ruin every speedrun when I enter that room and Eurydice is singing with Orpheus...

[tender oxide]

Dw, if you're doing igt the timer pauses in story rooms

[cosmic jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/emperors-new-groove-kronk-mitten-right-oh-right-gif-5321179

...haha, true...I guess it is more I lose the speedrun "mentality" when I get in there and stop everything...

[ivory hare]

nvm

[cosmic jungle]

😅

[ivory hare]

somebody wrote that

allready

xD

😂 😅

[tender oxide]

Fair, definitely understandable

[slim star]

Well, got my 1st God to Max for the epilogue, and appropriately enough, it's Athena.

[cosmic jungle]

Nice! My first one was Zeus…I mean he wanted me to call him dad and had the hots for Nyx so it made sense at the time 😆

[slim star]

What Greek Female doesn't he have the hots for, though?

[cosmic jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/how-you-doin-joey-smile-friends-how-are-you-gif-8259375

[rugged dome]

Metis, in Zeus' head:

[cosmic jungle]

The “Joey” of Olympus

[glass compass]

nyx kinda hot though 😳

[tender oxide]

Ares? Is that you?

[slim star]

Man, Artemis seems really proud of this Callisto person.
I'm sure nothing bad happened to her in the actual mythology

[tender oxide]

I much prefer the SGG interpretation of Arti and Callisto, the mythos one just makes me sad and upset

[slim star]

Same...

[tender oxide]

All my homies hate zeus

[hard rose]

If only his boons aren't so busted

[patent wolf]

After 200+ escape attempts I finally got the ||threesome|| scene with ||Than and Meg||. At long last I can say I beat the game

[sinful hollow]

there's a what now? 👀

[patent wolf]

Yeah, it seems to be up to RNG once you do the necessary stuff beforehand

[sinful hollow]

well i know what im doing tomorrow

[rancid quail]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EuNMm0NU4AIyQqf?format=jpg&name=large

So, what brave soul will heroically create a mod that swaps this forward-face for Than's official in-game one?

Or is there one already?

(It's Jen Zee art, it counts as canon!)

[north sundial]

Requires some amount of image editing expertise as well, sadly

[night delta]

front facing than is so square, my man did not lack in the jaw department apparently

[opal ember]

Sorry about asking about this but is Zagreus son of Hades? Or Supergiant made this up? Thanks to the game, I am interested in Greek mythology and tried to find sources to read about it. But, according to most sources, Zagreus was Zeus' son... which made me a little disappointed.

[atomic forge]

the myths around zagreus are very conflicting
some say he was killed by the titans, or is some sort of alter ego of dionysus, but i think him being hades' son is also in there? idr

[tender oxide]

There isn't much about Zagreus, however there are some versions that tie him to being the first Dionysus, which was believed by the followers of orphism. The game doesn't follow this version (clearly), and pokes fun of it in the Hymn to Zagreus and Zag and Dio's prank on Orphe.
The other versions tie him to the underworld, generally either with titans or as hades son

So for the game at least, Zagreus is Hades' son

[opal ember]

Thank you for your explanation. I just couldn't find any sources saying Zag is Hades' son, which made me feel awkward when taking Zeus's Boon haha. I feel relief now 😄

[tender oxide]

Ofc

The author who wrote of Zagreus being Persephone and Hades' son is Aeschylus

I think his Aigyptioi? That's as much as I could find, not at my pc rn sorry

[vital bear]

Essentially the story he tells Orpheus is pretty much what his real lore is

He was the original form of dio born to zues and persephone till he was ripped apart by titans and his heart reborn.

[static rose]

I loved that whole reference to the Orphic tradition being an in joke between the gods, just wonderful.

[atomic forge]

So uh Demeter says she had a child to a baseborn farm boy? But Persephone is a full god right? Was that just a lie then.

[rugged dome]

Persephone is part human, part god

in the lore of the game, that is

in the original mythos, her father was Zeus

but having a human parent doesn't have to stop one from being a deity. for example, Dionysus in the original mythos had a human mother too

[atomic forge]

Huh but wouldn't that make her mortal? And zag too? Weird

Oh nvm

I just assumed since Hercules was basically human

[rugged dome]

it's an interesting thing though because Theseus also had an Olympian parent and a human parent, but he's still mortal

where Dionysus had a human mother and an Olympian parent and he's immortal

iirc it's the ichor what makes them immortal, the silver type of "blood" in their veins

nectar & ambrosia apparently also makes one immortal? at least, according to the original mythos

but SPG took some liberties w/ the mythos for the game i think considering it'd otherwise have tons of || incest || so I try not to think too deeply about it

[atomic forge]

Maybe it depends on how they're raised

Like in god of war on PS4 Atreus believed he was only mortal and became sick

[cloud geode]

Friendly reminder Orpheus has a scruff

You can see it in his 3d model

[atomic forge]

That means?

[cloud geode]

A bit of beard

You can see it under his chin in the 3d model

Like not a beard but a bit of hair so a bit of beard

[frozen jolt]

hmm, i see it in his character art too but it could be interpreted as just shading lines as well

how did i never notice it before... oh my god...

maybe he does have a little beard

[atomic forge]

He is a guy so...

[frozen jolt]

this is just like pyre's ||does fikani have a nose ring|| and ||does brighton have soul patch|| all over again

[rancid field]

it's more clearly read as scruff in his character model than his portrait imo https://twitter.com/artpaiges/status/1364319861850050561?t=adIcmlXZvSwABCaXwygvbw&s=19 i didn't notice it before so wanted to grab the tweet to double check

Paige Carter (@artpaiges)

Orpheus, musician of the House of Hades! His instrument was fun to model and texture. Another inanimate object with many faces~ @HadesGame

Retweets

112

Likes

1217

Twitter · Feb 23, 2021, 9:02 PM

[frozen jolt]

yeah it does

[half slate]

Hey

[slim star]

Well, got my next God maxed: Big Sis Artemis.

[static rose]

Some of Artemis's dialogue is so good. Great characterisation.

[bright knot]

Artemis is probably my favorite Olympian in the game

[static rose]

There's a bit where you give her ||the message for the feast|| and she is excited because she thinks it's just for her and then realises it ||means having to talk to all the other Olympians|| and is suddenly annoyed by it.

Not a people person.

[torpid vine]

I'd have loved to have seen her interact with her brother in some way.

[rose mica]

Ares?

[torpid vine]

She's Apollo's twin.

[rose mica]

Whoa
So Artemis is ||Orpheus'|| auntie

[torpid vine]

Depends which version of Orpheus's backstory they go with, but possibly.

[rugged dome]

i would love to see a "hades game" version of the other olympians that weren't included

i'm really curious why they chose the ones that they did

i've seen great fan designs of hestia (though she was no longer officially an olympian), hera and apollo

i think hephaestus also would have made a good choice to include when it comes to upgrading the weapons for example, instead of daedalus

i do very much like the implication that the reason daedalus' hammers are around the underworld is because he constantly has to go around the place to fix all the stuff that zagreus broke jklsdjf

[rose mica]

Ok this is my head cannon now

[torpid vine]

Daedalus works better, I think, thematically. He was a father who warned his son against flying too high up, lest he perish. Zagreus has to battle upwards and fight against his father's wishes in order to get to the surface... where he is fated to always perish.

[atomic forge]

So it was Zeus that stole Persephone from Olympus? Then what does he believe happened to her after he left her with Hades? Since he believes Nyx is Zag's mother

[rugged dome]

I hadn't looked at it like that before, that's a very valid point

[stuck zenith]

Some combination of Zeus doesn't know what happened after he left so he is going with the official story and/or public acknowledgement of his knowledge and involvement in what happened to Persephone would be bad for him

[atomic forge]

Oh yeah ig it would make sense just for him to go with it

[dawn acorn]

Whens the hades dlc coming?

[lament epoch]

When bouldy says something other than "..."

[atomic forge]

my does the DLC question come up a lot?

[upbeat willow]

It comes up a not infrequent amount, same with the question about a sequal

[atomic forge]

bouldy best character no cappa

[atomic forge]

fr

[slim star]

What does Brosseidon want for his lock?
I thought it would he the catch 25 fish/beat ||EM3 Thesus|| prophecies, but nope.

[jolly sphinx]

catch a fish before you get your first poseidon boon

you need like 18 total caught or something before that but looks like you did that part already

[open berry]

heyo this is late but if you browse around #ask-supergiant you can find dev reasonings for some of these choices!

#ask-supergiant message

#ask-supergiant message

[scarlet vigil]

has anyone else started to love Hypnos more and more as time passes?

[solid blaze]

I was originally so annoyed by him, then realized how lonely he was. He has an almost naive sweetness to me.

[atomic forge]

I am trying to get the antos companion and have maxed out my relationship with achilles and patrocolus but none of them are talking to me and I dont know what to do

[frozen jolt]

have you done sisyphus/eurydice and orpheus quest before that, and how is your relationship with nyx?

[atomic forge]

i havent done sysyphus or eurydice and I have given nyx 3 nectars

[frozen jolt]

i am pretty sure you have to be at at least 5 hearts with nyx and do sisyphus or orpheus & eurydices quests first in order to unlock the option to do the achilles & patroclus quest

[rugged dome]

oh so you need more hearts with Nyx before she'll tell you the contract location?

i had all the hearts and dialogues for sisyphus, orpheus and eurydice and patroclus and achilles but nyx would not give me the location dialogue

[cosmic jungle]

Some major storylines seem to “trump” other minor ones…for example, when I triggered the epilogue, it interrupted the other side missions, delaying this conversations for dozens of runs…the dialogues will come eventually, just keep nectarine/ambrosiaing, escaping, fighting, dying and doing it all again 😃

[static rose]

Yeah, I didn't get Hypnos until waaaay after everything else.

[scarlet vigil]

I love his bond forged icon it’s my fav after Dionysus

[static rose]

I love Artemis's and Eurydice.

[cosmic jungle]

Me too…I actually unlocked and maxed Hypnos finally today…about 20-30 runs after the epilogue.

Also, I just reached the moment of “||Risk it all||” after initiating that process about 40 escape attempts ago!