No idea.
#h1-story-discussion
torpid vine
peak echo
let's not go there
primal viper
I def already knew the last half of that
he is def the god of sex lol
torpid vine
Actually, that's Eros 😛
primal viper
Eros is a more minor god is he not?
torpid vine
Ares and Aphro's son. Or a primordial force in and of himself. Depends on the myth.
peak echo
torpid vine
I mean, most of the Greek gods had strings of lovers. Dio was kind of all about the wild, divine ecstasy and hedonism.
But that also included cannibalism in some periods/within certain cults too.
As a side-note on Eros--he's come to be regarded as a counterpart to Thanatos in many ways, partially thanks to Freud. But in Ancient Greece, they were considered to be amongst the most beautiful gods. Also, I'd love to see a SGG take on Eros. Lots of family drama to be had with him.
summer lark
Every time one of yall says Dio I think The World and Vampires not Parties and Wine lol
torpid vine
xDD
coarse knot
peak echo
keep practicing
ebon loom
You have to practice over 200 times iirc, and have a couple of different dialogues with Orphy (after a convo with Orphy you will get the prophecy)
compact pulsar
I don't think it's nearly 200 times
You just have to practice once in between each run for a little while, I believe, and eventually it'll start sounding better and you'll get more lines until you can finally call it music
low tapir
it's funny how in this server it's always like "guys please spoiler late/post-game things so new players can get to experience it themselves :))" but the switch trailer is like "TURN UP THE HEAT!!!! LOOK AT ALL THESE HIDDEN ASPECTS IN ACTION!!!!"
storm river
They just want you to get hyped for stuff you won’t experience until you’re in some part of the game
unreal mesa
Well if you want to avoid spoilers don't watch trailers and go only in #h1-for-new-players 🤷♀️
fleet drift
Nothing changes if you take back the Ambrosia from Dusa right?
ebon loom
Nope, nothing changes
fleet drift
Alright I need 29? More nector
It's 10 gems for a key, 5 keys for a nector
That's about 1,450 gems?
static blaze
I have a question about the ||family reunion|| prophecy. Can anyone help?
summer lark
I don't think I will take back the Ambrosia from Dusa
I knew what I was getting into, and she deserves the stuff
Plus, it means I have even more of an excuse to dunk on Theseus
ebon loom
I had already collected a lot of ambrosia and finished 90% of everyone's hearts that I didn't need the ambrosia back by the time I got that prompt
static blaze
||I invited all the Olympians but stuck on report to persephone and hades?|| Anyone know why?
ebon loom
Just keep rolling the RNG
static blaze
would throwaway runs work or do i have to reach ||hades||
unreal mesa
Throwaway runs are enough to progress through the dialogue
static blaze
oh sweet, thanks
still verge
I think I just got a weird text routing glitch or smt? in the final boss, pre-boss text, Hades said "the shield of chaos" something, but I'm using the default shield aspect?
shy cypress
Is it possible that I broke this quest line somehow?|| I'm trying to do End to Torment, and also get the last companion from Sisyphus but it's just not working. I have full heart with Sisyphus, the rest is locked, that's where the problem is. No matter what I do I just can't trigger the rest of the lines from Nyx. I spoke to Hades about the situation, I know about the administration chamber, but Nyx either talks about how she is, or Ares, or straight up nothing, I've been suiciding for a while now, even getting to Sisyphus, and then suiciding, but nothing. Anyone with any suggestions?||
||Also Sisyphus doesnt tell me anything, other than giving me his rewards.||
||Can't be other quest lines, I'm finished with the game, have every other bond, and the party with the Olympians etc...||
torpid vine
It's likely RNG hating on ya
primal sapphire
Gonna copy and paste this here!!
Hey, a dialogue question
||does anyone have any screenshots regarding zagreus talking to than about hypnos? Apparently I missed that part when trying to unlock Hyp's heart. It never appeared to me and I'd like to know how it went :(||
shy cypress
It's been 40 runs since ||I'm just suiciding after getting to Sisyphus (If I get him even) I'll soon need a death defiance myself if it keeps this up. ||
muted magnet
I think I just got a weird text routing glitch or smt? in the final boss, pre-bo...
Aegis is the shield of chaos by itself
but the aspect of chaos is just imbuing it with master chaos's aspect
shy cypress
||I can't even find Megaera in the house anymore, she's just gone. Never in the lounge anymore. And I only just realised before these runs that you could even talk to bouldy, and give nectar to him, so if I have to speak to Meg after that, its literally impossible for me to do the quest isnt it? ||
||And I have no idea if I had a convo with her about Sisyphus.||
peak echo
have you been fighting meg and beating her
shy cypress
In the first 10-15 runs probably, but after that I just suicided after Sysiphus cause it would take ages 
Especially if I dont even get the conversation. So 1/3 I fight her than 1/infinity I get the conversation
But I'm pretty sure ||Hades already told me about Sisyphus' contract being in the admin. chamber so I don't know why I'd need Meg ||
peak echo
im pretty sure you need to beat meg to make her appear
shy cypress
Well I just beat her, found her in the lounge, chatting with Dusa and that was it
I'm losing it 
tough wedge
wait wait crap crap
why does it read “||meg my old flame|| if i havent had the heart event with her yet
i hope i didnt break anything ;-;
muted magnet
bc they were together before the evnts of the game
tough wedge
yes but i havent had the choice to choose whether i was going to romance her or not
ugh ill do another run
muted magnet
Megaera and Zagreus were once in a relationship, but by the events of the game, this relationship has long since ended due to some mistake on Zagreus' part.
tough wedge
thats not the question im asking
ebon loom
That text is there whether or not you get the romance scene iirc
muted magnet
i thought it did with the "old flame" question
stuck wolf
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/150407704651759616/804533401012273162/unknown.png
bwahahaha poor Theseus, thinking we'd ever want his autograph 
somber estuary
Old flame is a former romantic partner. Megaera and Zagreus were romantically involved BEFORE the game, then broke up, so no matter what she is his "old flame". If you choose to romance Meg, that would be getting back together, "rekindling an old flame". We just weren't present as observers for the original relationship.
low tapir
do you think they liked to play jumprope then
woeful echo
Okay this question needs to be asked why the HECC ||are their whip sounds during the cutscene when you romance meg|| (romance spoilers)
Wrong there dangit
low tapir
oh don't worry they're playing jumprope
somber estuary
woeful echo
stuck wolf
but actually though, it's likely ||bdsm and sado-masochism|| :)
low tapir
why
stuck wolf
it's the truth
dry lichen
I don't think we're allowed to talk about that kind of stuff here
stuck wolf
I mean, it's heavily implied in the game, but I won't say anything more about it
woeful echo
||I THOUGHT THE GAME WAS GOD DANG PG-13||
somber estuary
Nah... nah they just had fun with some double dutch. Dusa even came over to help out, but she didn't say anything because she had to hold the jump ropes in her mouth and snakes. And Zag got a really good workout from the whole thing so that's why he's out of breath.
stuck wolf
you can even hear the bed springs in the scene
woeful echo
HE'S WHAT
low tapir
zag was so pumped for jumprope that he was like "Yes!" after the scene
native sigil
Who's attacks are easier to dodge? Aphrodite or Poseidon?
somber estuary
Poseidon because I can actually see it spawning in.
woeful echo
They're both really difficult
But yeah aphrodite's is practically invisible sometimes
native sigil
From my experience Poseidon's are also quite hard to see in Elysium 
stuck wolf
Poseidon's definitely - his attacks just go in a large circle, and most of the time you don't even need to dodge as long as you're roughly near the middle of the circle
native sigil
Ent up going against Poseidon's attacks, and it went quite alright, Thanks guys
Man I really wanna punch Theseus in the face
somber estuary
Theseus really wants you to punch him the face too.
native sigil
I have punched Theseus in the face 
ebon loom
I used to be mad about Asterius killing me constantly, but now I redirected that anger to Theseus
low tapir
when i'm mad at theseus i can just go to elysium and beat him up, maybe destroy a bronze-laden macedonian tau-lambda in the process idk
fleet drift
I blue screened and lost a prophecy...
somber estuary
low tapir
worst possible way to lose video game progress right here boys
muted magnet
I used to be mad about Asterius killing me constantly, but now I redirected that...
theseus only deserves hate
sterile oar
Quick question, is there any way to get the script for hades, or better yet any let’s plays that don’t show gameplay, just character interaction? My sister is in a video game writing class and I recommended she analyze hades for an assignment since it has such an amazing story, but she is not a gamer and would not have the ability or time to just play it.
low tapir
well it is very heavily based on greek mythology but yeah that's not helping is it
some things she could try looking into story points like when it turns out nyx isn't zag's mom, persephone, the return of the queen, the epilogue, etc
maybe even some other characters like thanatos and how they're portrayed
@sterile oar
sterile oar
Yeah, I was just hoping there would be a way for her to see the way how the dialogue was shown
low tapir
she could also look into releasing the pacts for some of the characters
such as lifting sisyphus' punishment or allowing achilles to visit his hot depressed bf in elysium
somber estuary
Apparently you can relatively easily access the script files if you have the PC version.
You might need a special type of reader program to make it easier
low tapir
you could actually just look for them in the game files huh
you'd need to have it on steam, though i wonder what the general consensus would be about pirating a game for the sake of a "video game writing" class
pliant topaz
that final fight is uh
ouch
I got really excited halfway through and then I got all my dreams crushed :')
sterile oar
Apparently you can relatively easily access the script files if you have the PC ...
Do you know if there’s an easy way of doing that for a less than tech savvy person?
somber estuary
Unfortunately I do not.
low tapir
it's probably like this for other games, surely you can just find a guide on youtube
open berry
Alright, maybe I can walk her through it.
hey friend i'm on my way to bed here shortly but feel free to dm me if there's anything specific you or your sister is looking for and i can follow up with you tomorrow
sterile oar
Thanks. I don’t think there will be specific questions for a while, but I’ll be sure to link her to this discord.
low tapir
why exactly does she have a game writing class if playing games isn't exactly one of her hobbies, if i may ask
dry ore
college side class probably?
bright cobalt
Hello, there is a door above the left hallway in Hades. How is it opening?
vestal pagoda
you can enter it further on into the game
upbeat willow
there'll be a story even that happens that allows you to enter the room if it's it's the one I think you're referring too
bright cobalt
wait a minute
upbeat willow
If it's the administrator chambers, you'll have to buy a specific work order to get access to itt
snow oyster
just talk to them more
upbeat willow
you'll have to purchase a specific work order to get access to that room @bright cobalt it costs 2 diamonds from memory (I'm not 100% certain on that)
low tapir
apples??
bright cobalt
diamond sorry
low tapir
to the contractor
bright cobalt
what is contractor
low tapir
you haven't unlocked the contractor?
bright cobalt
no
low tapir
do you see a shade with a hard hat standing before a table near hades?
bright cobalt
yes is unlock
hidden mason
just play the game
those things will unlock over time
youll be guided through it
if you dont know what the contractor is then youre still far from unlocking those rooms
youll unlock it later on
shy timber
bright cobalt
oke thenks
low tapir
lmao hypnos literally forgot to greet meg when she came from the pool of styx and now meg is like "i don't know how i can recover from this. i'm in shock. i don't know how i'll get on with my existence"
clever ruin
Lucifer is as viable as everything else.
The best aspects are more resistant to extremely high heat but that doesn't make the others bad. It's a case of good and good+ not good and bad.
dusky swift
huge spoilers!!
||YALL I GOT PERSEPHONE BACK IN THE UNDERWORLD YAYYYY||
strange bear
I've bought everything in the West Hall but there isn't a check under the tab
what gives
tough wedge
you sure?
strange bear
there's nothing less to buy
unless something new is going to appear which would be weird bc I'm 130 hours in lol
tough wedge
something something jeweled pillars iirc leads to a fountain unlock
hollow flicker
Do you have the deluxe upgrade for the contractor?
tough wedge
and then theres the death furniture from than
strange bear
I have checks in other tabs
tough wedge
you can check on the wiki
red valley
Got the normal ending!!! Now to go for the epilogue
Is all I have to do just do favors for all the olympians?
lilac swan
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's just beating [redacted] until Persephone talks to you about her plan. I don't think I did everything before I got the epilogue!
ebon loom
Nope, you need to also ||Forge Bonds with 6 Olumpians and learn Persephone's backstory from Zeus and Demeter|| according to the guide in the pins
lilac swan
Ah, noted! Thanks!
swift jackal
I have bought 13 upgrades to the lounge but I can't talk to ||Dusa|| and get her ||companion|| does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
ebon loom
Probably just rng
normal kiln
yup
swift jackal
Or do rugs not count?
open berry
pretty sure at least one rug is required
normal kiln
other dialogue can block the specific convo you’re looking for, or the character can be gone/talking to someone else and you just have to wait
open berry
||companion|| convos have rng?!
all convos have rng. that is how the dialogue system works. essentially the dialogue that comes up is like a dice roll. the game just checks that you have completed the requirements to see specific dialogue, and once you have that is entered in with all other available dialogue that may come up
this is why there is no guarantee to getting any specific dialogue to come up, you just have to keep playing until it does 
plain jolt
Killed.... By a startled mountain goat 😦
idle gulch
^ better than dying from mundanity...
swift jackal
all convos have rng. that is how the dialogue system works. essentially the dial...
Wait but to get her ||companion|| I need to give her 1 more nectar and she wont take it
teal parrot
Do we never get to party with Dionysus 😞
storm river
Zag does but you don’t get to see it
royal wadi
i just got the dialogue where hades says the fish is taunting him
vestal pagoda
your spear is right there
low tapir
quasi folio
i wish we could date dionysus and ares
i wish we could date all the characters
EXCEPT LIKE
NYX HADES PERSEPHONE DEMETER AND CHAOS LOOL
but that would be like incest LOL
vestal pagoda
i want to date the rock
quasi folio
HAHAHAHAHAHAS
IM SCREAMIIIING
I kept gifting the rock
cause i was trying to build a bond with it
AHJDKDLASJL;JKASJKLSKJD
🤡
CLOWN ALERT
fervent wolf
but that would be like incest LOL
i mean... arent they all related to zag in some way
the gods i mean
vestal pagoda
yes but they are hot
quasi folio
HAHAHAHAHAH
quasi folio
yes but they are hot
PERIODTTT
quasi folio
i mean... arent they all related to zag in some way
isnt than like zags step brother
verbal urchin
Well nyx isnt really hades' wife
Id say brother figure is closer
But this is greek mythology so it doesnt really matter either way
royal wadi
it will always confuse me why hypnos is a receptionist for souls entering the house of hades
that wasnt supposed to be his job
there doesn't seem to be a lore reason for him being there
opaque bane
bois how do i unlock the last heart for mag and achilles
i cant gift them anything anymore
peak echo
idk but i’m glad he’s there
fervent wolf
bois how do i unlock the last heart for mag and achilles
have you done their favours yet
for meg it's kinda rng how you unlock it i think
opaque bane
what do u mean by favours
fervent wolf
for achilles you need to have done his sidestory
favours are like
the thing you have to do to unlock their last heart
i stuck with that term because i browsed the wiki for em
fervent wolf
have you met pat yet
fervent wolf
yep
megaera's favour is like heavily dependent on rng
you need to have defeated her enough times to do it first
and then its all up to the fates
worn flower
also for achilles, read his codex entry
cinder gulch
||Love that Achilles just HATES onion||
low tapir
i still haven't finished the code entry for onions i just realized
peak granite
I was wondering if it was possible and I got the answer now, Zagreus can be employee of the day lol.
muted magnet
CLOWN ALERT
mint glen
not sure if spoiler but i'll use this channel just in case...
...I fresh filed Hades last week because I wanted to see all the dialogue all over again, and got to the part where you can select songs that Orpheus can but will not play.
I noticed there was a song title there called ARGONAUTS, which I've never heard before, so I picked it, knowing he wouldn't play it anyway, but now I'm curious.
Does this song exist, and where/how can we gain access to it?
mint glen
ah man, would've been neato to see 😂
high quest
How does ares know about all of the hidden aspects?
ebon loom
Weapons are a tool in war. He's probably one of those ppl who buys books and reads wiki articles on every known weapon.
low tapir
how does he know about beowulf
torpid vine
God Magic.
stoic zinc
I moved far away from home about 6 years ago, haven't visited my parents in years, always had been busy with one thing or another... then COVID.
Just got the dialogue bit when Per||sephone|| tells Zag||reus|| ||not to visit her again.||
The feels I didn't expect 😄
Prolly shall call mom tomorrow.
high quest
how does he know about beowulf
Yeah, I an understand how he knows about Gilgamesh, as that legend was already told, but he also is aware of tales that are yet to be told such as Beowulf and Lucifer
high quest
Nvm about Lucifer, I was just told by Achilles that it happened before the Olympians
peak echo
do u think some characters talking about the companions like theyre alive/have feelings is just them collectively having a bit of fun or do you think there's truth to it
e.g. the conversation you can have with sisyphus if you have shady equipped
ebon loom
I think they have some sentience. They are made by Nyx so I wouldn't be surprised.
hollow flicker
^
storm river
I finally got the first dialogue when you bring a ||yard of ariadne|| into the elysium boss fight
somber estuary
How does ares know about all of the hidden aspects?
It's actually very simple. The hidden aspects are ordained/foreseen by the Fates and Ares reads their prophecies because he's actually a huge nerd and thinks all things Cthonic (like the Fates and Nyx) are super rad. Your list of minor prophecies that you use as a quest compendium, which mentions that you will get the hidden aspects and take them to the surface? He's read that list and thinks it's cool that you're completing it.
hollow oxide
question
how does the aspect of lucifer work?
it says to fire at hellfire?
but it doesnt explode for a good while
torpid vine
Ares does seem to have a thing for the Chthonic. Can't blame him.
muted magnet
how does the aspect of lucifer work?
ill video it after this run
will be a quick clip
hollow oxide
Ah yes
ebon latch
im having trouble getting hypnos' favour to trigger ||Ive reached epilogue, full queen +party ending, bonded everyone but him. I checked the wiki, and it involves talking to than, but i'm fairly certain i did that ages ago. i got the interaction about list making after naps, which i think is that favour conclusion. haven't gotten the minotaur signature to trigger yet weirdly though the wiki says it isn't necessary||
hollow oxide
I figured out that it was just because the bomb went on skelly
And skelly was blocking the laser
ebon latch
yeah the hellfire can be hard to trigger
hollow oxide
Now what kind of build is good for this aspect?
ebon latch
ive done zeus attack and the hammer that ||infinite ammo|| with jolted +fog for scintillating and maybe dem special for icewine.
ebon loom
Have you seen convos between Than and Hypnos ||You also need to buy the tombs from the contractor||
ebon latch
Have you seen convos between Than and Hypnos ||You also need to buy the tombs fr...
didn't know the ||tombs|| were necessary?
ebon loom
oh, that just gives a another dialogue then
ebon latch
||ive seen i think all of them, the berating, plus the one where than says to make lists before and after naps which seemed conclusionary||
open berry
completing hypnos is a long (roughly 7 sets of dialogue) back and forth with than, the most difficult thing about it is getting than to show up on a run, and having hypnos at the house after a run
ebon latch
hmm, ive seen loads, but ill check the wiki. hes my last one after 110+ runs.
open berry
i think the actual unlock is a follow up dialogue with zag once it's over, i'd have to double check that
the wiki isnt fully complete because it was my intention to flesh out the requirements further but that was... some time ago and i've never been able to get around to it lmao. and no one else has taken it up
ebon loom
Hypnos ||thanking you is the last one|| which I remember since I got it recently
open berry
also the ||autograph|| is just a separate optional questline and has zero bearing on hypnos's affinity unlock
a lot of people confuse them and think they're related but they're not 0:
the only thing you get out of finishing that is ||amusing dialogue with theseus||
ebon latch
do you have to go up to him after ||than tps away||?
ebon loom
Don't think so since you can't talk to him then
open berry
most of than's dialogue is at the house, you won't talk to him in the field too often
once you've exhausted his field dialogue, its normal for him to just immediately disappear after a challenge and you dont really talk to him on a run again
ebon latch
yeah, i bonded with him, he never talks to me in the field anymore:(
just weird hypnos still hasn't triggered yet
open berry
yeah, thats intended. his dialogue pool during runs is small, much of it is just challenge commentary
hypnos is generally just... difficult. the last patch they had to try and raise the priority of his lines because finishing out his affinity is such a common complaint
radiant pagoda
Man, I ||freed Orpheus|| like 20 runs ago, and wanted to see him ||with eurydice|| but it's been like 20 runs and I still don't get the room for it
How bad is my rng
It's been days
😭
civic barn
i like this message
south shore
so how do you get ares' favor I've got all the other olimpians except for him
radiant pagoda
I believe you need to kill a lot of enemies, but not sure how many
neat crow
No, it's not that much. If you haven't gotten the prophecy from Ares yet, you just need to keep talking to him
south shore
oh thanks! i guess my rng is just really bad
fervent wolf
its 10k total
clear oracle
i like this message
Wtf May 2020. This is next level resurrection
civic barn
Wtf May 2020. This is next level resurrection
i just really like that message.
ebon loom
You can quote messages without tagging ppl btw
stoic dome
||The ending was surprisingly happy||
torpid vine
Surprisingly?
austere glade
||wait did hades jsut give me all the nectar back?||
austere glade
does locked hearts count for ||epilougue||
radiant pagoda
||Orpheus & Eurydice good riddance duet is so good||
Lucky you
||I've been trying for so many runs to get eurydice's room but my rng trash. kinda makes me want to listen to it from youtube :(||
ashen vigil
i didn't rlly understand it at first until i got a bit further into the story but the idea to take demeter in the opposite direction of what you'd expect - the god of seasons as an embodiement of a cold and uncaring winter - makes me so happy i've never seen demeter personified like that & i love how it ties into the story
also love how occasionally after i start out w/ a demeter boons the gods remark on how nice she used to be... ares said something along the lines of that the way she was more recently utilizing her powers was much more to his liking
idk the writing in this game is good
somber estuary
does locked hearts count for ||epilougue||
||Only Demeter's||
ebon loom
Dionysus ||you need to give a certain about of ambrosia to different ppl (6, 10 in total iirc)||
Aphrodite ||you need to complete the romance plots of Meg, Than, and Dusa, rejecting all of them counts if you don't want to romance them||
austere glade
than relation is just too hard i can't
ebon loom
If it helps ||You only need to forge 6 bonds with the gods. If you still haven't gotten the epilogue convo with Persephone, try talking to Zeus and Demeter some more or just do more runs||
austere glade
If it helps ||You only need to forge 6 bonds with the gods. If you still haven't...
does it have a quest in the fated list or something ?
because i know of the epilougue from the game's website
i thought it was a secret
ebon loom
It does. The fate will appear once Persephone tells you to ||hand out letters to the Olympians||
austere glade
so i didnt get it yet
south shore
ok so i'm in the epilogue and ||i got a dialogue saying that chaos might come to the thing and i was wandering if i tell him will he?||
open berry
you can ||tell chaos about it but whether you talk to chaos or not won't matter because they won't be there. the epilogue is about the tension with the olympians about persephone's situation, which chaos has zero bearing on. if you talk to chaos they'll simply tell zagreus themselves they can't be there||
its up to you if you want that dialogue or not but it wont affect the outcome
south shore
oh thanks that's a pitty i would've loved to see chaos just there jarringly standing
south shore
yeah but he could be out side just watching everyone or in the garden
unreal dagger
I wouldve loved to see anyone, I would've loved to see the party
That was some blueballs sgg 
open berry
doesnt make a whole lot of sense to create and rig 9 new character models for a short scene you only see once, thats a ton of work
unreal dagger
True
Well they made a whole garden and you only see it in 10 runs
I really wanna go back up
wide dagger
I read a couple different things online to reach the epilogue. Can anyone confirm if I need to reach heat 8 as a requirement
Or is it the Olympian's bonds
fervent wolf
it's only the bonds
and the fact that you have to get the specific prophecy from ||persephone||
open berry
main narrative content will never be locked behind difficulty modifiers
low tapir
I read a couple different things online to reach the epilogue. Can anyone confi...
turning the heat up is absolutely not a requirement for story progression, just keep passing nectar out like candy and hope something finally happens
wide dagger
Thanks a ton everyone
dry ore
you can actually get to the epilogue without touching ||heat|| once
as you only need ||6 ambrosia|| period
ebon loom
yep
upbeat willow
as you only need ||6 ambrosia|| period
you can even get there with ||5 ambrosia, as getting demeter to the heart lock also counts||
dry lichen
And it takes 6 nectar hearts to get to give ambrosia?
Im pretty it's 6. If it then that means 36 nectar is needed. I feel nectar is rare but I at least get 1 per every 2 runs but I feel I also get 2 some runs plus dio has his one boon that gives you a free one that means 1.5 per run so that's 27 runs and at least 10 of those need to have you beat ||dad|| and you'll probs have to do 2 more runs after ||beating him 10 times|| to gift ambrosia to all the gods but you can't gift the ambrosia without gifting nectar first and at 12 runs you would even have been able to gift 2 gods so my final thoughts after running numbers again is ||30 runs is the minimum amount of runs to get to epilogue||
Then again it's 5am so I probs did some math wrong plus might be wrong about like nectar average
worn flower
you also get nectar from Elysium fish, also you can trade for nectar in the Broker
dry ore
nectar is the easiest thing to get in game because you can trade with keys and gemstones
both super easy to farm materials
36 or so nectar needed for epilogue is basically nothing
also you can gift up to seven god in a certain run, 6 is also very easy to achieve with keepsakes
lunar totem
Who's the dude in elysium that gives us death defiance?
fervent wolf
pat
vestal pagoda
Roclus
low tapir
patty
round basalt
||Final Expense Payback Mix catJAM||
wide dagger
Man I cant wait till I've given all the nectar that I can so I can start trading it for the diamonds
keen obsidian
After a while what can I do with diamonds
I already bought everything in the shop so what am I supposed to do?
wide dagger
Have you bought all the music?
wide dagger
There is also chamber upgrades and then eventually ||binding contracts|| for certain characters
keen obsidian
huh
wide dagger
I would hang onto them for certain stuff u will need for progression
keen obsidian
what do those do?
vestal pagoda
Stuff
wide dagger
Yea idk of I should spoil it all
keen obsidian
k
vestal pagoda
It's better if you find out for yourself
wide dagger
But those diamonds will be useful
keen obsidian
Like I bought like every upgrade from the house contractor
keen obsidian
Gotten them back together
wide dagger
Like how many escapes. I cant remember exactly what is relevant to the contractor
keen obsidian
Like 30 or something
wide dagger
So u are where I'm at I think
keen obsidian
Idk exactly but around that estimate
wide dagger
So u got the upgrades that give u gold when u pick up gems and stuff
keen obsidian
yup
keen obsidian
Erebus gates, keys, nectar etc
wide dagger
Yea well as you build relationships with some other guys, there is a few more things to unlock
royal wadi
Thanatos please accept the ambrosia already 
keen obsidian
Yeah why wont achilles accept my ambrosia
Like theres no pop up for it like it was for meg
royal wadi
Achilles has a sidequest you must do
wide dagger
@keen obsidian I can tell u if u want
keen obsidian
Do I have to give nectar to patty?
wide dagger
I dont know all the exact steps
wide dagger
That idk but I think so. I think they both gotta get maxed I could be wrong
royal wadi
Just spam nectar on everyone
wide dagger
But eventually certain dialogue should happen and u will be able to progress and get then back together
That's when u will need a few diamonds
wide dagger
I just started trying to figure this stuff out on guides cause I wanted to give nectar to the people that give the legendary keepsakes (companions)
Yea I rarely see him
But I keep atleast one on me in case lol
But still I think I only got him at 2 hearts
keen obsidian
i have one companion and thats from meg
wide dagger
What does she do?
keen obsidian
2500 damage in a straight line
wide dagger
I got skelly's. And he shows up to aggro everyone
keen obsidian
Search it up
wide dagger
That's cool for bosses I supppse
keen obsidian
Yes it is amazing
Especially for like the heroes. It is also the best for speedrunning
wide dagger
I think I'm close to maxing her out so I should look up her favor
keen obsidian
its really good
And you dont even have to do anything
Just keep giving her nectar and then one ambrosia
autumn tinsel
meg and than are the best companions for me
i go meg if im speedrunning, or than if im playing chill
dusa has to be like the worst companion lol
round basalt
What about bouldy
keen obsidian
eh
round basalt
keen obsidian
go for it
wide dagger
I've hoarded most of my titan blood
keen obsidian
same
wide dagger
I got tha zagreus aspect maxed on my sword and the shield but I dont know what else to invest in
I figure when I unlock the hidden aspects
keen obsidian
Idk my favorite has to be hera or lucifer
But figure out what your favorite weapon is and invest it in there
wide dagger
Do u have the hidden aspect for the Stygian blade
I'm looking them up now how to get them but I havnt had Nyx trigger that yet
keen obsidian
Yes
I have all the hidden aspects
For some reason I always got the code words first try
Like for the sword aspect I didnt know I could even unlock it and nyx told the words
south shore
you have to wait for a hades dialoge i think you have to have the queen back
atomic forge
hey how do I unlock the other hidden infernal arms after the aspect of guan yu?
south shore
just certain ppl it shlould come up eventually
idk if you have to have a certain nuber of hearts tho
keen obsidian
Ive gotten the queen back and everything but it says summon unavailable
Even tho I have 1 more use in the top left corner
normal kiln
hey how do I unlock the other hidden infernal arms after the aspect of guan yu?
check the pins
royal wadi
I got the epilogue 
ebon loom
Ive gotten the queen back and everything but it says summon unavailable
You have to have a conversation with Hades on the topic of companions to use it in the final boss
keen obsidian
ok
royal wadi
Zeus and Hades having a manly handshake was worth it
stoic dome
Orpheus started singing for the first time yay
I think his voice is too low for Good Riddance though
green delta
untold wigeon
No he's dead
ebon loom
Charon is fine, that's just how he looks like
torpid vine
Charon is wonderful.
atomic forge
Guys, it's bout post game story: ||Now that I invited the Olympians and did the reunion, is there any more post game stories to look for?||
ebon loom
Check the Codex
There isn't anymore to the plot after that point, but there are dialogues and stuff unlocked after the post-game story
ebon loom
I believe so
atomic forge
I see. Thanks a lot.
unreal dagger
Guys, it's bout post game story: ||Now that I invited the Olympians and did the ...
Theres the roguelite gameplay!
stoic dome
Is there more story content after ||Persephone joins you?||
ebon loom
yes
arctic flax
I beat ||Charon|| twice looooooooong before I did ||the epilogue||
unreal dagger
i beat charon twice before there even was an epilogue 
visual oxide
does anyone have any ideas on what to do after "beating" the game fully
stuck wolf
impose weird challenges on yourself or try speed running maybe
unreal dagger
does anyone have any ideas on what to do after "beating" the game fully
Ap2 runs
halcyon quail
i dont know how to do the spoiler blocking thing..... uhhhhhhh
unreal dagger
Spoilers aren't necessary here
halcyon quail
oh, well in that case
unkempt geyser
i dont know how to do the spoiler blocking thing..... uhhhhhhh
for future reference you put || on either side of the message you want to hide
brisk sage
i dont know how to do the spoiler blocking thing..... uhhhhhhh
Just use || on both sides of your message
ebon loom
you can also type /spoiler
unkempt geyser
||whoa i didnt know about that||
unreal dagger
Love your name
ebon loom
Guessing it's a desktop thing
halcyon quail
Is there any known special cutscenes you can get after you ||finish romancing a character? I just finished romancing thanatos and I'm eager to see moar of the boi, but I also just got friendzoned when i met him in assphodel and he called me "my friend" and I'm like BOI ||
brisk sage
Guessing it's a desktop thing
Ah ok
unreal dagger
Is there any known special cutscenes you can get after you ||finish romancing a ...
Theres a smashing scene but is just a black screen so don't get too excited
halcyon quail
Theres a smashing scene but is just a black screen so don't get too excited
no i did that, i mean
AFTER that
like
ever
unkempt geyser
i dont think there is
halcyon quail
i dont think there is
unkempt geyser
yeah, i was sad too :/
halcyon quail
i need to speak to the manager about THIS
not that i guess there's a lot of romantic dates you can take your boo on
unreal dagger
no i did that, i mean
It repeats once in a while, but that's as far as it goes
unkempt geyser
it repeats??
unkempt geyser
holy crap
halcyon quail
It repeats once in a while, but that's as far as it goes
unreal dagger
Same for than
halcyon quail
HOHO
unkempt geyser
that hasnt happened to me yet
unreal dagger
||and even both|| 
unkempt geyser
guess i just gotta keep talking to them?
unreal dagger
Yes
unkempt geyser
||and even both|| <:squirtdevious:472124054569222144>
AT THE SAME TIME?????????????
unreal dagger
OwO
halcyon quail
|| then dusa probably you just enjoy a game of twister in or something platonically cute ||
|| you win every time bc dusa don't got no LIMBS ||
also wait a minute... you can fade to back with both of them?
at the same time?
i was gonna stay just friends with meg BUT.....
unkempt geyser
nonbinary so they them thanks! ❤️
thats epic
halcyon quail
aw, thank you!!
you know who else we need to be able to romance tho?
Hypnos. And Charon.
ALSO alecto.
halcyon quail
idk i like her?
unreal dagger
She talks too much meh
halcyon quail
tis is cute when || you teach her words ||
unreal dagger
Tis is my fav to fight
halcyon quail
true thirst is wanting to date lernie.
somber estuary
Hypnos is a lil outta Zag's league, don't you think?
unkempt geyser
true thirst is wanting to date lernie.
true thirst is wanting to date skelly
halcyon quail
Hypnos is a lil outta Zag's league, don't you think?<a:HypnosSticker:77225094699...
tbh zag barely has any league. I love him but he's a dork, it's a mystery the himbo attacts than or meg or dusa
halcyon quail
true thirst is wanting to date skelly
bone zone.
unkempt geyser
;)
somber estuary
And honestly I ain't the kinda homewrecker that would get between the beautiful thing Charon has going with Tisiphone.
halcyon quail
Charon tho... i just wanna hold his hand?
somber estuary
halcyon quail
wait is that canon? i haven't seen anything of it at all
unreal dagger
true thirst is wanting to date skelly
Knowing that zag and skelly are both the same va makes this ship a little funny
unkempt geyser
Knowing that zag and skelly are both the same va makes this ship a little funny
true lol
unkempt geyser
wait is that canon? i haven't seen anything of it at all
i think its mostly a fan thing
halcyon quail
Are you kidding? Have you listened to them? They won't shut up about each other!
(shade emotes are probably my favorite thing)
somber estuary
Nonsense. Charon and Tisiphone is the only real ship because Charon actually has the boat.
unkempt geyser
since neither of them are up for a lot of conversation
unkempt geyser
Nonsense. Charon and Tisiphone is the only real ship because Charon actually has...
okay that one was pretty good
unreal dagger
I love when the chef goes
halcyon quail
Chef is actually the true god of the underworld.
unreal dagger
Just give me your fish
halcyon quail
speaking of the shades, i adore the coliseum shade
i kinda wish we could make the whole crowd red
unreal dagger
You mean your only fan
unkempt geyser
our biggest fan <3
unreal dagger
Shades turn red as you win against champions
Could be a nice detail
One shade per battle
unkempt geyser
i think poor theseus might have a heart attack if that happened
halcyon quail
GOOD
somber estuary
I identify strongly with the shade that is constantly gawping at Nyx.
unkempt geyser
his ego is already so fragile
halcyon quail
HOPE HE DIES
unkempt geyser
ares moment
somber estuary
That's how I'm spending my afterlife.
unreal dagger
Lmfao
halcyon quail
oh i'm sorry
somber estuary
Also most of the Olympians don't charge for that.
unreal dagger
....not demeter.
Why the grandma hate
But me2
I bet dio and aphro do it for free
halcyon quail
|| i would pay money for the olympians to raw me ||
somber estuary
I bet dio and aphro do it for free
You KNOW Zeus does.
unreal dagger
halcyon quail
oh, does anyone else give the pairings their own names? like for me, if i focus mostly on something like, uh, artemis and aphrodite, i'll call the run "cupids bow"
or something like that
for boons primarily are what i'm talking about
somber estuary
Nope. Every build is a cluster#### so I dedicate them all to my great grandorigin Master Chaos.
halcyon quail
ares and aphrodite is ||breakup sex||
unkempt geyser
aphrodite bow is shot through the heart
halcyon quail
dio and aphro are || REGRET ||
somber estuary
That really updated my journal.
unkempt geyser
jsncbdnsn
halcyon quail
y'all are fun but i gotta go, i'll def hit y'all up later to talk more of this ^o^ ttfn
somber estuary
rugged quartz
LOL something funny just happened
I blew up Thesus's chariot while he was starting to charge, and he flew all the way across the arena
ebon loom
Developer foresight
unreal dagger
Tru
jade arrow
How did I... Just now, after 86 runs, realize that On the Coast is a chill version of In the Blood
omg
unreal dagger
Lol
I just wish we could still visit the garden
Without having to start a new save file
jade arrow
This :( I was so sad when I found out we wouldn't be able to anymore
When mom asked to take care of her garden I thought we'd actually be able to do it :'3
Just go there and -water plants- or something djhdsg
jade arrow
Garden DLC with "Take care of plants" when
jade arrow
I'd definitely pay for this omg
jade arrow
I'd love a stardew valley mini game of some sort
Starts with soft happy music and then speeds up and gets all metal while a countdown shows on screen
unreal dagger
jade arrow
Gotta take care of plants before Zag dies
jade arrow
I'd play that asghfjsf
Zagreus: That's.... The sun....
-takes screenshot-
Zagreus: -runs for the ultimate challenge-
Maybe if the player does x points they get more time to stay there
unreal dagger
Mah poms
jade arrow
"The better you play", the more time you get up there
It'd be kinda cute too, him telling Persephone about it
"I'm sorry, mom, I... Barely touched the ground and.."
But other times
"MOM I SAW BIRDS"
jade arrow
omg there was a snek
OH NO
Zagreus: Can you believe it? A snake!
Eurydice, somewhere: 8|
jade arrow
ksjdhggd I thought it had been intentional xD
weak scaffold
I think it was a bad idea to ||borrow/steal from Charon||
weak scaffold
But then I’m thrown into a boss fight and i know it was coming 
unreal dagger
Well, have you played other roguelites?
Do you not know you shouldnt mess with shopkeepers?
ebon loom
It's an easy fight ||just turn on god mode||
weak scaffold
It's an easy fight ||just turn on god mode||
I forgot ||god mode|| existed I’ll keep that in mind
weak scaffold
Well, have you played other roguelites?
Also yes I know not to mess with the shopkeepers 
low tapir
in literally every roguelike there's an option to piss off the shopkeeer lmao
low tapir
how long till someone does sub 9 on the barrel roll challenge at less than like 8 heat
arctic flax
||So is Zag able to actually explore the surface in the post-game, and he just dies at some indeterminate point? I ask because he seems to die from things that aren't the stomach cramps in the post-game messages.||
low tapir
||So is Zag able to actually explore the surface in the post-game, and he just d...
dude just dies at some random point, i mean in one of the deaths he just dies from """old age"""/absolute, sheer boredom
somber estuary
Sorry I'm mixing up discord channels tonight
Anyway, there's a few little theories about Zag based on what Achilles and ||Persephone|| have to offer but for the most part I'd say he still just dies from a random cause any time he goes exploring instead of heading to ||mom's garden||, although I know there's still a card in there for him just dying, claimed by the Styx and all that.
unkempt geyser
brisk hill
and there was the sound of a scared zagreus
and a whip sound, followed by Meg laughing
low badge
is there a cool reason that the sundial always reads 7:48?
low tapir
there's no sun
so it just reads 7:48 due to another light source illuminating on it or whatever lol
fleet kindle
about Orpheus.. ||does he have a reaction as you but the 'Singer's Gamble' from the contractor? Permitting him to see his muse||
wispy ginkgo
so it just reads 7:48 due to another light source illuminating on it or whatever...
There's no battery (Helios' chariot) included, so the dial can't work. :D
Zagreus didn't read the little words on the notice, too bad!
low tapir
oh yeah, totally forgot about that
so they just never realize that you actually need a chariot for it to work
wispy ginkgo
Very likely, yep, I think it's that. XD
low tapir
did none of the olympians notice this or did they just never bother to even bring it up at all
particularly to helios, or i guess daedalus or maybe hepaestus
they all seem capable of fixing this issue
low tapir
i just immediately assumed that by "helios' chariot" they meant like a miniature model of it that just shines really bright
a tiny god-shaped lightbulb that revolves around the sundial
clever ruin
Ah, okay. That'd be neat
wispy ginkgo
i just immediately assumed that by "helios' chariot" they meant like a miniature...
Same here, I thought it was that
Once again, I proved I was wrong. x)
sly pilot
wow i never knew that ||persephone had an actual sprite :0 i just assumed that we'd never see her character for a while but it was nice hearing and seeing her for the first time (￣︶￣*)) ||
unreal dagger
thats how it was the entire early access
so imagine playing for months, winning the game over and over
and then finally being able to see her
sly pilot
:o
royal wadi
Dusa thinks I'm interested in her romantically well this is awkward
sly pilot
shoot your shot mate
timber dew
Just made it out for the first time myself
knew there was a supergiant discord just hadn't joined yet, but yeah|| I assumed the same about Persephone, and the whole style in greece was a wholesome contrast to all i've been seeing the last week lol||
halcyon rock
Thanatos dialogue be like... this game really does not handle the topic of family abuse well.
open berry
It's more like everyone has communication issues more than anything
there's resolutions in the late narrative, whether you'll find it satisfactory or not is another matter
halcyon rock
I've played far enough that I got most of the narrative by now I believe, that's why I have an issue with it.
The game originally looked like it was going to deal with a very difficult topic that I haven't really seen dealt with with video games before, but then they ended up covering up over it and resolving with kumbaya, effectively.
open berry
I don't fully agree to that but to each their own
halcyon rock
Family abuse is not a "to each their own issue", it's a fairly well studied topic at this point.
As said about many other things, "to each their own" is relevant for pizza toppings.
worn flower
well it's not Family abuse it's the interpretation of the narrative that deals with it which is "to each their own"
For some, it was resolved satisfactorily, to others it was not
dry lichen
Wait what's the family abuse with than? I thought nyx liked him?
worn flower
open to interpretation
They might be referring to Thanatos' relationship with Hypnos
dry lichen
His big brother like nagging and making sure the dude does his job?
worn flower
if it's not that, i don't know what they would be referring to
halcyon rock
Nah I'm referring to Hades mainly
halcyon rock
Than makes a line about running from one's family, and running from one's problems, which is very problematic
worn flower
was it something about how you can't really do both?
or that Zagreus is just doing both a lot
halcyon rock
It's a bit of a weird situation in the game because half the joke is that you literally can't leave the underworld, but the game overall kind of OKays it
worn flower
eh, he doesn't really
halcyon rock
Kumbaya in the sense that Hades stops being a idk what word to use that won't be caught by the prophanity filter
worn flower
"bad dude"
halcyon rock
There are several diaglogues where he actually goes "yeah I'm wrong about that"
halcyon rock
Yes that's not the issue in itself
The general point of the game is also that Zag keeps trying to fix things withing his family, and to some extent earn his father's approval
and over time he does get those things, as if his actions can earn him that respect
worn flower
Is the idea that this isn't actually what happens in real life?
halcyon rock
Yes
because the harsh truth one has to learn with an abusive family is that you will never earn that respect because that was never the problem to begin with
because the issue is that the parent is a broken human being, and often they will never, ever, admit they're wrong
so when Hades went "yeah you know yeah i have been a dolt" a few times I was floored
halcyon rock
A dad complaining about his son the whole entirety of early game is not a normal dad mate
that's the issue I have with the game
early game Hades is abusive
keen obsidian
lmao
halcyon rock
late game Hades is a normal dad
young spindle
you sound damaged, want a hug?
halcyon rock
it doesn't line up very well
keen obsidian
Hades completely burns zag in those pre run things
worn flower
well i wouldn't say normal dad
halcyon rock
normal is perhaps not the right term
but able to admit mistakes, grow as a person, etc.
keen obsidian
I still dont understand why he still does those dark sitting at the desk things between runs
Like right as I click escape
worn flower
Early game Hades is a dad who has place unrealistic expectations on his son and has never really made an effort to understand him in anyway
I wouldn't say abusive
halcyon rock
It's abusive. Very much is
young spindle
anyone have a link to the lines of dialogue available online?
I'd like to be reminded which lines are "abusive'
halcyon rock
If it wasn't for Nyx and Achilles Zag would be sitting at the therapist office nursing some major CPTSD
young spindle
nah, he was a decent dad trying to train Zag up when Zag was younger, getting him to do work in the archives, etc... it was Zag's rebellion that deteriorated the relationship, and Hades is somewhat sympathetic since he was missing his wife and conflicted if he could tell Zag the truth.
ruby schooner
I still dont understand why he still does those dark sitting at the desk things ...
i don't get those either, they're the only part of the game that truly confuses me. they make even less sense after the ending happens
keen obsidian
yeah
worn flower
well that's overly generous to Hades
young spindle
I love Hades ❤️
keen obsidian
I thought that everything was going well until that happened
worn flower
lets not go all the way to the other side, Hades suuuuuucks
halcyon rock
Please do not look at Hades as an example of a decent dad rofl
young spindle
sorry, too late
halcyon rock
It doesn't matter how rebellious a child is, there are certain things you do not do or say
young spindle
I'm already a dad, and starting to change my approach to be more like Hades
worn flower
but i think there's a line between Hades isn't a good dad and Hades is abusive
halcyon rock
It can be subtle. Some people recognize that sort of thing better than others.
The big thing is early game Hades is entirely negative like the whooooooooole time.
Anything zag does he has something lousy to say
worn flower
True but that was the lowest point in their relationship
halcyon rock
Also Hades constantly requesting respect for no reason
very textbook
so the whole thing is really weird
keen obsidian
Also murdering your child over and over is not a great dad move
worn flower
from flashbacks, the little snippets that you see sometimes at the beginning of runs, there are some lines of wisdom and trying to teach Zag about his powers
halcyon rock
SGG is clearly going along some stereotypes here
keen obsidian
from flashbacks, the little snippets that you see sometimes at the beginning of ...
It still feels very cruel after the ending
halcyon rock
But I feel they haven't looked into it too much what they were actually mimicking I feel
Zag does have a line towards Nyx where basically he owes his... whateveritis to her, effectively
worn flower
I guess maybe my definition for abusive is probably too old school
halcyon rock
"There is no escape" is a funny line in context
worn flower
maybe i've normalized dad behaviors that might actually be considered abusive now
halcyon rock
Basically if you raise a kid in such a way that the kid is left with the impression that they're never enough for you
that causes long term psychological damage
so it's considered abusive
even if it's not, say, something that's easier to see, like physical abuse
worn flower
Basically if you raise a kid in such a way that the kid is left with the impress...
see here's the thing, my first thought when I read that was "isn't that how everybody feels"
maybe i need therapy haha
i wasn't expecting this in my hades discord server tonight
halcyon rock
There are certainly people who do not feel that way, but I can't tell you what the statistics are
ahahaha
keen obsidian
see here's the thing, my first thought when I read that was "isn't that how ever...
I dont think that kids are supposed to feel this way.
halcyon rock
it's funny because when I started playing this game
i was like
"this hits close to home"
worn flower
Same man
halcyon rock
Just in my case
there was no light at the end of the tunnel
and I know there never will be
keen obsidian
thats deep man
worn flower
It helped in my case that I finally found my path on my own
and didn't need to follow the road my parents wanted for me
clever ruin
Lotta awful dads out there
halcyon rock
@worn flower same man 🙂
keen obsidian
This has turned into group therapy
halcyon rock
I don't think discussion of human dynamics is really much of therapy hehe
halcyon rock
Yeah, he seems to mellow out a lot
there's funny banter later when you go kill him more lol
keen obsidian
Wow this conversation fits in so well with the english assignment I'm doing. We're studying "Where the Sidewealk Ends" and its all about finding your own pathway
jade arrow
Just wanted to throw my two cents here about this discussion:
I understand how Hades is abusive towards Zagreus. Not in a physical way, but in a psychological way. I disagree however when it comes to "doesn't handle the topic of family abuse well". I think it does a great job at doing that exactly; we go from a bitter, pretty much left behind by his father Zagreus, who's out there killing and fighting to get to his final destination, to a calmer, happier Zagreus. That's evident in how you befriend both Gods and shades or even characters that people consider annoying (aka Theseus).
Hades doesn't change 100% by the end which I think is pretty realistic.
I'm not saying that's a good thing in a real-life scenario, only that it's a realistic real life scenario. Zagreus won't simply forgive his father for all the time they spent together and Hades can't simply change who he is or how he acts. But I love that... He's trying. He's honest with Zag about it too when you get the five hearts with him. That he'll be honest and won't lie anymore, although some of his traits will always be there.
It makes for a nice change of pace, I feel, once Persephone is back home. She brings back warmth, light and happiness to many, one of them being Hades himself. He apologized to her and to his son and is now currently doing what he can to keep working and keeps his family alright. He tells Zagreus that he doesn't ask him for forgiveness and that is more than good; it is Zag who decides if he'll forgive his father or not. And, as for the other characters, they've got their own duties and ordeals to take into consideration.
That turned into a rather long two cents, sorry about that sdjhgsd
halcyon rock
I don't think the devs had too many options in terms of what to do there while also dealing with the fact that Zag can't really leave, that is true.
jade arrow
I don't think Zag would actually want to leave for good (Personal opinion here based on what I've played so far). To me it feels like his only goal is to have his Mother back. She was the only one missing, let's put it that way. Once she's home, he's home too. His doggo is there, his friends, his partners and even the shades that he doesn't know but always interacts with.
To me, his whole journey starts with Hades himself and his resentment toward his own family. It also puts them back to back which is very interesting
Hades is resentful of his family for everything that happened. He's not 100% fine with being Lord of the Underworld, as seen on myths and other media as well. What does he do? He isolates himself and his world from everybody else. It's his defense mechanism, to close himself from the dangers of the outside world
Zagreus is the exact opposite. Zag is happy there with his friends and everyone else (Except his father, let's say). He likes the people he talks to, he's easy going, and what does he want to do? To broaden his horizons and bring people together. He actually breaks this defense mechanism his father created to let people in and that's what ultimately brings everyone together
And when Persephone is back, both of them are in balance. Zagreus learns that having no defense whatsoever can end up in more trouble; the more fragile you become, the more fragile people can take advantage of you. Hades, on the other hand, learns that he doesn't need to his this controlling all the time. He's got his duties and his status as the Lord of the Underworld, but he can't keep things under control on his own.
Anyway, I just think they're all neat sjkfksdg
(One last addition before I leave this chat: In the end, how the relationship between them will carry depends entirely on Zagreus. He asks Hades to try and treat him with more respect, but if he wanted to simply stop talking to him he'd have that right too. In the end, it's the victims' choice to decide if the person who hurt them deserves another chance or not)
solar vault
How do I max out Zeus affinity? I swear I keep taking him first and I'm never getting the right dialogue lol
hollow mortar
If I remember correctly, you have unlock it further via Demeter-Zeus duo dialogues?
hollow mortar
I think so, but it has been a while for me. Good luck! 
unreal dagger
Zeus' favor involves hearing the other Gods' opinions of him, as well as seeing Zeus express a desire to reconnect with Hades, along with Hades' response.
spiral saddle
yk i like the thought that zag cant leave cuz he be eating all those poms
like if he just never took a pom, then maybe
storm river
I think in-universe, it's just something perseophone made up
spiral saddle
well did she? cuz like she never was away from the river styx, so she's close to the realm
and therefore could abide by the 6 months thing
torpid vine
||She made it up to fool the Olympians into thinking she had been in the Underworld since her disappearance.||
||Zagreus meanwhile, exists in defiance of the Fates. He can't stay in the world of the living, because he was never meant to live at all.||
unreal dagger
||She made it up to fool the Olympians into thinking she had been in the Underwo...
actually no, the olympians dont know she was down there, one since they thought zag was nyx's son, and two, demeter kept saying she didnt know where persephone was
persephone literally disappeared
oh
wait
i just read
thats the epilogue plan
somber estuary
well did she? cuz like she never was away from the river styx, so she's close to...
Conversations with ||Persephone and Hermes and Demeter after the feast kinda make it clear Persephone made it up but everybody is pretending it's real because they would rather not fight and Demeter is just happy to have Persephone back half the year and to have a grandson.||
spiral saddle
ah, i havent gotten the feast yet
somber estuary
||The real reason Zag can't leave is left ambiguous but Hades thinks it's just a byproduct of his own pact with the fates, and Achilles has a theory that the darkness Nyx revived him with is what binds him to the Styx since every morning Darkness has to retreat to the underworld and so it starts to leave him at dawn and when he runs out he dies.||
||Now if only Zag knew how to tell time and how to sleep, so that he could get to the surface at Dusk instead of Dawn every time! Too bad Helios is too busy to grant him a boon or send him an itinerary through Hermes! Or maybe Daedalus could whip him up some sort of ultra underworld parasol and some SPF 10,000 sunblock he might last a little longer up there! Long enough to get killed some other way anyhow...||
torpid vine
Given the ||various endings. I'm pretty sure it's on the Fates. He dies to everything||
woeful whale
bro......ive been trying to max out hypnos friendship for SO LONG and it just won't. im on run 123 and it won't unlock. my best guess is that i romanced thanatos so fast that it skipped whatever dialogue unlocks hypnos so now im just stuck waiting for it to come back around
he's the first person i dumped nectar into and now he's the only friendship that isn't maxed out
stuck wolf
Did you already get Asterius' autograph for Hypnos?
woeful whale
ive done both of those things
hidden mason
did you max than already?
cos i think hypnos needs the brothers storyline or something
woeful whale
yeah than has been maxed out for awhile
my only other theory is that having god mode on for a few runs messed up the progression somehow, but i'm not really sure how that would be possible
hidden mason
nah god mode doesnt affect the story
woeful whale
that's what i figured
yeah i've finished the whole story at this point, epilogue and everything
pls hypnos let me be your bestie....
ebon loom
You just need to see conversations between Hypnos and Than as well as talk to Than about Hypnos. The dialogue is RNG so some might take longer to appear than others.
woeful whale
yeahhh and i've just gotten really unlucky with encountering that. i think i've seen one conversation where they talk to each other.
hidden mason
if you wanna rush it you can keep dying
woeful whale
it's been giving me post-romance and epilogue plot dialogue instead of hypnos dialogue for like 30 runs now
hidden mason
what i did when i was trying to get the epilogue
golden walrus
I always miss out giving a gift to Dusa lol
Once had it, then realized talking w Dusa = flee
open berry
Did you already get Asterius' autograph for Hypnos?
for future reference the autograph is a completely separate side thing you can do and not related to unlocking 
for hypnos
stuck wolf
oh neat
I just thought since it was a special request it was Hypnos' favor to unlock his heart
open berry
yeah i think that may be while a lot of people mistakenly think its related but its a completely separate thing
unfortunately hypnos is just hard to finish because of his reliance on finding than, having than talk to him, and hypnos also being home :/
somber estuary
You will need to trigger Than on your runs and hope you roll a conversation with Hypnos or with Hades about Hypnos. Just RNG really.
tough wedge
i want to get asterius’s autograph but i dont feel like losing my 30+ win streak
somber estuary
"Hear that, Asterius? The fiend is afraid to sully his peerless reputation! Come and try then, demon! Your reputation is mere tarnish upon Asterius' mighty axe!"
spiral saddle
i want to get asterius’s autograph but i dont feel like losing my 30+ win streak
you dont need to??
its been a while but i remember getting the autograph and winning the run
fleet sierra
How many runs did you guys do before you got the epilogue? I can't get some of the hearts to unlock on some of the gods. I've done the romances, but Aphrodite is still locked. I've fulfilled the 10k kill prophecy, but Ares is locked. I've caught a ton of fish, but Poseidon is locked.
somber estuary
A lot of it is just getting conversations to roll and also making sure there are no qualifiers for those conversations that require other characters or certain orders of conversation.
fleet sierra
Yeah but how many runs? I'm at 73 with about 40 escapes
somber estuary
its been a while but i remember getting the autograph and winning the run
You get the autograph from the midboss encounter with Asterius so of course you can win the same run. It does require you to have gotten a certain amount of losses to the champions I think but it doesn't have to be recently or anything it's a lot of RNG too.
Poseidon you just needed like a few rare or legendary fish or something and then you need to catch a fish BEFORE you talk to Poseidon for the first time on the run to have a chance to trigger his favor conversation.
spiral saddle
oooh ok, didnt know the death count part
ebon loom
How many runs depends on how forgiving RNG is
fleet sierra
Yes, but do some people get it at 50? Or is 100 more likely, or what to expect? It's so nebulous
somber estuary
Aphrodite is like pure RNG when you talk to her after you increase hearts with the 3 "romances".
Hmmm, I can check about when I got the epilogue, lemme see
It was just over 50 for me. 56.
Keep in mind that I was pumping everybody full of nectar and ambrosia BEFORE I knew it was part of getting an epilogue since I just loved hearing the dialogue.
spiral saddle
me over here at like 70 i think because i saw god relationship as useless until i found out thats how you get the feast and im still not done with it
spiral saddle
i never take dio as a build unless im playing hera bow tho, outside of that i only take him as a "why not hes always nice" type of boon
so its taking some time
somber estuary
I love his cast with zeus or demeter duo
fleet sierra
Dang, 50. I did wait a bit before giving nectar, but they've all been maxed out for at least 15 runs now.
I like hangover and festive fog, what's wrong with Dio he's so cooool man
spiral saddle
I love his cast with zeus or demeter duo
yea dio cast in general kills with hera or Beowulf unless the shield works a tad different
somber estuary
Dang, 50. I did wait a bit before giving nectar, but they've all been maxed out...
Who still needs their favor unlocked ||besides Demeter||?
spiral saddle
I like hangover and festive fog, what's wrong with Dio he's so cooool man
i just dont find poison as strong as like a 150% buff from aphro
somber estuary
Aphro and Dio is a great combo with Dio's hangover poison and the duo for more poison stacks on weak foes
fleet sierra
I like poison on dash for melee
spiral saddle
yea but like, i generally go for aphro x zeus with demeter fists and never really play chiron bow. and i just main bow and fist so like :/
somber estuary
Aphro is great in general for the high power she grants. Like, I think I had a chaos shield run with aphro on the main attack and the piercing beam hammer thing, then I could stack poison rapidly with dio on the splitting special.
spiral saddle
but like who needs like 100 damage per second when i can get hunting blades on hera bow
ok yea i should probably stop talking about builds, this is the story chat
somber estuary
I can never get hunting blades when I'm running Hera. It's like Hera's spite at Ares for the whole Aphrodite - Hephaestus thing.
spiral saddle
lol
somber estuary
I wish Hera would show up in the conversation at some point when talking to Zeus or Aphrodite or something.
spiral saddle
yea, especially since artemis has a line where she says the skulls on the bow are very hera
and like i wanna see what hera would look like now
somber estuary
Zeus: Maybe we should start telling everyone you're MY son instead!
Hera: Oh you mean he's NOT? Are you SURE?
Zeus: Ehrum uh I shall see you later young man taa taa
somber estuary
I can imagine, heh
spiral saddle
im surprised they stay married
yk now im just thinking of an interaction with zag and tantalus. like zag just grabs the fruit and dips while tantalus is just hungy
somber estuary
Zag: Oh, those pomegranates on that tree above you look absolutely delicious, you won't mind if I take just one right sir?
Tantalus: dry mouthed croaking noises
Zag: Ermm... thank you?
spiral saddle
and then he tries to throw him one but it just dissapears once it hits tantalus's hands
somber estuary
I feel like Zag's pom-brains would just keep him completely ignorant of the fact that Tantalus wants help and is being tortured for the entire eternity of their interactions and just assume that he's some soft spoken shade that tends a bunch of fruit trees and treats it as a powerup room for a super pom or something and always leaves before Tantalus can properly communicate that he wants Zag to help him end his torment, since this also prevents Zag from wanting to find out more about him and figuring out about the heinous acts that led him to this punishment.
somber estuary
"Hey father, what is the story behind that crackly voiced shade that tends the fruit trees out in Tartarus, and why does he talk like Charon with a Hellfish stuck in his throat?"
"The shade that tends the what? Oh. Oooohhhh... Hmph. Speak no more of this. Simply partake of 'his' fruit if you must and leave him be!"
"Ermmm... okay? Did he just give me permission to loot something?"
oblique reef
