It's never too late.
#h1-story-discussion
feral flower
lean orbit
First one is still among the best tho
dusty matrix
First one?
lean orbit
Hmm, maybe they aren't bound to clear number, but it fitted so well for me
||pretend that hades absolutely clobbered zagreus||
dusty matrix
Guess I gotta finish my new save clear
feral flower
That wasn't my first one.
feral flower
My first one was rather poetic.
Thus having vanquished his own father, the grim god of the dead, defiant Zagreus is finally free to seek the hidden place in which his long lost birthmother resides.
How will that work out for him? It's as yet, too soon to say.
dusty matrix
Eck, haven't found that one again either
sage vault
best one is when he dies to a wall
dusty matrix
||"Just then, the carefree-running Underworld Prince runs headlong into a thick and deadly wall of stone, painted to look like the way out."|| 
jade slate
i like the one where he just randomly jumps into a pool after trusting some old guy
dusty matrix
Famous last words... "Sure!"
crimson temple
I like the one where he is immediately run over by a chariot. He should know better after all those trips to Elysium.
dusty matrix
I totally forgot about that one
Seems I got many more runs until I collect them all
open berry
@jade slate https://i.imgur.com/TQ2PZ8G.jpg 🤔
hushed pilot
I think I should start collecting Zag's lines when he Admires the Skelly statues in order to use them one day in an art gallery. https://i.vgy.me/vc8Ayl.jpg
coarse raptor
how many times do I have to talk to Sisyphus to get his thing ? I've given him all the nectar (and Bouldy one)
feral flower
Until it happens.
spare sundial
what does the heart with a lock on it mean in the codex?
atomic forge
Gotta complete their favor (some story event) to continue gifting.
heavy warren
@open berry "Guess I walked right into that one."
craggy steeple
how get aphrodite favor
!
I've maxed my hearts with meg and dusa's hearts
idk what else to do
open tiger
@craggy steeple iirc, it's related to your relationship with other characters
just a moment
open tiger
Yeah, either one of those two should work
Dusa + one of the others
how long has it been since you finished maxing them out?
feral flower
I only got it after being friends with Than, if that helps you at all. Though it could just be RNG.
craggy steeple
it mentions some things but doesn't have a page or definition for them
feral flower
Than Meg and Dusa, to be clear.
craggy steeple
I'll just get than too I guess
since I already maxed the other two
do you have to max out the hearts
open tiger
It might take a few runs before Aphrodite says anything to you, as well
craggy steeple
or just get to the ambrosia phase?
open berry
being more specific with favours is on my list of things to do
just really havent had time to work on it
craggy steeple
ngl I don't even know what a favor is
or what it does
there isn't even a page for them
open berry
unlocking the locks on a character's hearts
craggy steeple
oh
thought it was going to give me some cool increase in rarity of that god's boons or something
open berry
most of them involve like. an extra set of circumstances for unlocking, many of which you'll get naturally just through progressing through the game
nope affinity has zero baring on gameplay related things
outside of companions
there are pages for both nectar and ambrosia and honestly this is really my first time actually reading through it but yeah ambrosia doesnt really tell you anything beyond how to get it and that its for deepening bonds :) which. truthfully isnt that helpful
so i guess something detailing affinity in more depth is also... on the list of things to do............
winged glen
The fact that maxing affinity has no effect on gameplay is a bit baffling to me
open berry
its all purely narrative content
i thiiiink greg popped in once while there was an ongoing topic related to affinity and how theres no payoff for maxing characters but i also think that was in the old beta channel, which is gone now
there are definitely people who think there should be some sort of bonus to putting in that effort but idk
i personally dont mind bc my motivation for maxing is to see the narrative and get more lore anyway but i do understand why people would want it to affect gameplay in some manner for it to feel worthwhile to them
upbeat willow
imo the narrative you get is a payoff in of itself
open berry
@upbeat willow i think thats sort of the idea but for people who care less about the narrative and more about the gameplay, i can see why they want more incentive for it
viscid fjord
do meg, than, or dusa mind if you romance all 3 of them?
viscid fjord
dope time to max out more hearts
also aphro is the only god i have that i havent maxed her out cause her heart still remains locked. do you know what im suppose to do to unlock her heart or is it just rng based
upbeat willow
I kinda wish more games would do have polyamory as a thing that was explored (not that I'd personally interact with it in any way) as it's something that's not done enough (or well in most cases) in media (video games especially)
viscid fjord
what do you mean by that devi? keep sleeping with meg or maxing out dusa and than as well?
upbeat willow
in a similar vein I'd like to see more ace/aro relationships in media
rotund sedge
@craggy steeple you better not leave Than hanging
Its a greek setting game, give a bro some Spartan love
😤
craggy steeple
I'll consider it 😉
viscid fjord
god i wish getting gems for titan blood was permanent. i just want to pimp out the lounge and halls T-T
got all this useless blood hanging around, i aint no vampire i dont need this much
viscid fjord
i did do it like last week it got like 15 thumbs i think.
probably wont get noticed but it would be dope
i just mainly dislike how the shop doesnt have like a full circle. you just end up a dragon with your mountain of blood. like i dont mind if its very diminishing returns just having something to do with titan blood after you max out every weapon is nice. like you dont need to make the permanent 1 blood for 250 gems you can make it 150, 100 heck even 50 would be fine.
sorry for the rant, really my only plight against this game
cloud ember
ok not 50, cause just by playing 50 is ez. but yea 100+ wld be good
viscid fjord
yeah but it can be a thing like at the shop there will always be 50 gems for 1 titan blood but there is a chance that there will be the temporary 250 gems for 1 titan blood. so if you impatient and need gems or something weird like keys you can trade the titan blood for the 50 gems and get your stuff but if you dont care you can always wait for the 250 gems to appear
cloud ember
i feel that it should be a circle such as 1000 gems = 100 keys = 20 nectar= 2 diamonds = ambrosia = titan blood
i get 1000 is alot so
like 1 titan blood is 250 to 500
or less cause titan blood isn't the hardest thing to get
viscid fjord
true, i feel like they just wouldnt want a complete circle so having titan blood get less would be fine. ideally somewhere between 100 to 300 gems i think is fair
i do wonder if adding darkness to the circle would be decent as well just so you can have more diversity in getting stuff
gems>keys>nectar>diamond>ambrosia>titan blood>Darkness>gems
in whatever number they deem fair
then of course having the random temporary sales
cloud ember
i dont think darkness is appropiate cause other than titan blood, everything else dosent give you a boost in ur abilities
i guess ambrosia gets you companions
but thats it
pallid crag
keys do
viscid fjord
ambrosia also lets you get multiples uses for your companions and gems/diamonds unlock stuff like keys giving you stones, gems giving you coin, or darkness giving you health which does help with runs. my logic for the darkness chain is that i feel like no resource should feel useless until you have unlocked everything the game has to offer.
cloud ember
hmm makes sense
viscid fjord
so just a story question who do you think skelly contracctor is
the obvious is hades but is there any other main suspects
ivory spire
Keep playing and eventually you'll have the answer
viscid fjord
i have no idea o.o i thought it was still a mystery
cloud ember
if ur screwing with me good one
crimson temple
The conditions are a bit specific. ||Wear the lucky tooth and meet Hermès. The truth will be slowly revealed.||
unkempt sapphire
related: ||Hermes just told me about some lanky guy he delivered to Hell that was a liar and a cheater, and was currently trying to make amends||
ivory spire
That's probably Sisiphus. Although he doesn't fit the description, spending time with Bouldy will change you.
cloud ember
lanky is tall and thin
so i dont think sisiphus
also guys this is #h1-story-discussion no need to hide it
crimson temple
One character from mythology punished with being rooted to a spot would be Tantalus.
It’s a stretch considering how willingly Skelly is accepting pain. But Sisyphus is also quite different from usual depictions.
feral flower
Sisyphus might have been lanky once upon a time.
Pushing Bouldy probably helped him bulk up.
dense sparrow
you forgot one thing friend, sisyphus is a shade, and shades' bodies dont work the same way human ones do
feral flower
Or do they?
unkempt sapphire
Doesn't hurt to spoiler mark
did you guys forget who the lucky tooth belongs to
viscid fjord
yeah if thats true imma probably equip lucky tooth at asphodel and hope i trigger the event
open berry
That spoilered text was not related to sisyphus at all
It absolutely was about ||skelly||
coarse raptor
ugh I got the Tiny Vermin, but that didn't fill out my Wanton Ransacking, what am I missing? between Dire Snakestone and Dire Satyr Cultist
atomic forge
Got the Dire Vermin yet?
feral flower
Don't think so.
ashen latch
You don’t, but RNG does slow down companion quest chains
Just keep doing runs and keep unlocking dialogue
coarse raptor
okay cool,. looking to do his and Dusa's and it's slow going
are... favours... relevant? outside of the companion guys?
feral flower
Not currently.
unreal dagger
Is it possible to unlock the northeast room in the west hall?
Or is that part of 1.0
lean orbit
Northeast? Down the hall, where thanatos likes to reside?
open tiger
No, up the hall, and no, it's not available yet
unkempt sapphire
I got tisiphone to say zagreus 😳
feral flower
It's so sweet, isn't it?
I want more Tisiphone. She just sounds so sad and mournful.
mystic mortar
murderzerr?!
open tiger
Zzerderrrer??!
unkempt sapphire
meg was there too
unreal dagger
Thanks swan
open tiger
o7
open tiger
There's no link attached...?
Is mobile trying to be helpful and just getting in the way xD
unkempt sapphire
right click, open link- oh ur on mobile hmmmm
unreal dagger
Any speculations on what it will be? Isnt that where the weapons were locked up?
open tiger
I think it's Hades' room
unreal dagger
Ohhh
unkempt sapphire
yeah cause Hades speaks everytime u try to open it
open tiger
And it's okay Zana, I've already heard that line xD
unreal dagger
Well he does, everytime you try to open the admin chamber when is locked as well
unkempt sapphire
mobile discord is a differnt type of beast for me 😔
open tiger
I think one of the flashbacks hinted that that room is Hades'
And it would make sense
unreal dagger
Kk
open berry
zag also asks hypnos about it like right after the flashback
Zag: Hey, Hypnos, what would it take for you to let me through the locked door down the hall?
Hypnos: Oh, hahaha, that's a good one, you know I can't let you enter your dad's private chambers anymore, since you betrayed his trust and tried to run away from home! Sorry, Master's orders!
open tiger
Perfect, thanks
unreal dagger
Ah
open tiger
Ah-ha, there is a way for me to get the link if I wanted to. If I try to share the embed, it lets me copy the link
open tiger
Oh?
heavy warren
bot won't let me curse lol
atomic forge
Live in fear. There is no escape.
heavy warren
also the bombs do way too much
atomic forge
Yes.
heavy warren
I actually beat Asterius and knocked Theseus off the chariot
but still died bc I'm bad
does the enemy speedup heat option affect bosses
it does right
open tiger
Yes
open tiger
Honestly just keep going for them, you'll pick up their patterns
unreal dagger
I don't think is a bug, she does reduce the map xD
I should've known and picked it up
open tiger
Eeehhhhh, I dunno
unreal dagger
yeah is kinda silly
unreal dagger
or just let me dash thruuu it
open tiger
Is that 85 Titan blood?
open tiger
Ah, okay
unreal dagger
will level up, when i start struggling
open tiger
Lol
unreal dagger
so i was watching a few old videos, and damn, you used to level up weapons with keys
open tiger
Huh
unreal dagger
It really hurts me having to kill him
unreal dagger
lmao fine
open tiger
Just sayin'
unreal dagger
Theseus on the other hand
open berry
theseus is one of my favourite characters
unreal dagger
Note to self, reduced dash range from chaos, against Asterius, is definitely a death sentence
theseus is one of my favourite characters
ew
open berry
hes frankly not a bad character lol.
unreal dagger
not bad, just quite dumb imo
open berry
i hated him at first but mostly because he kept beating me in the beginning
viscid fjord
i find him ew cause of his personality
open berry
his lines are why i went from not liking him to ranking him in my top 5
unreal dagger
yeah his personality is why I don't like him either
viscid fjord
he gets mad at the minotaur at some points. thats a big no no in my book
open berry
thats valid but i could say the same about thanatos and people here would come after me with torches and pitchforks for it. but its true. than's personality is just. not really that great.
unreal dagger
Like Asterius is literally just telling him to be cautious cause Zag keeps beating them and stuff, "Oh blasphemy, you saying I can't fight?!?"
open berry
i like everyone though, some i just like a lot more than other. generally tends to be characters much of the fanbase doesnt care as much for
unreal dagger
How did Theseus beat Asterius in the first place with that mentality
Yeah the maze I guess
open berry
well i doubt theseus when he was alive acted exactly the same as he does for however long hes been dead
viscid fjord
thantos and thesus are my least favorite tbh. i just find their personalities annoying
unreal dagger
I honestly don't think he's changed much
open berry
for achilles, death mellowed him out a lot, being in hades' service. for theseus, well, the arena is a big thing for those in elysium so his time in death has been the opposite
unreal dagger
well but achilles had a breakdown
open berry
doesnt negate my point
hes had a lot of time to think about his actions in life and change in the afterlife, esp considering what he lost
unreal dagger
Do you think Theseus spends time thinking about his actions?
the guy is a champion
he just wants to fight
open berry
im actually wondering if theres more sections of elysium that are like. kind of the general sort of "paradise" you would expect, and zag's path through just happens to traverse the area where many warriors reside. its said that many who are granted into elysium/the elysian fields take up whatever job they had in life, so for those that were warriors, that would be fighting. so hence the arena.
unreal dagger
Well Elysium is supposed to be like "heaven"
to live happily ever after by the champions and such
open berry
and asterius wasnt actually granted into elysium, he was sent to erebus. theseus is the one who tracked him down and brought him to elysium
unreal dagger
supposedly to do whatever they used to do when they were alive
so yeah, I'm pretty sure, all Theseus does is fight
open berry
him and many others. like all the exalted lol
open berry
i understand why hes so disliked by like. nearly everyone that plays the game but delving into characterization is smth i enjoy a lot and frankly while i agree theseus is obnoxious, i can easily see how he would come to be that way, and in a way it makes him more interesting to me. i dont really hate anyone in the game, at most i have mild dislike for zeus because i just generally dislike zeus :) but everyone has their merit to me
i dont think daedalus is gonna be a thing
since the reason given for daedalus hammers over hephaestus was that they didnt want everything to talk to the player and they wanted daedalus to be like a background presence in the narrative
feral flower
Theseus is a fun character.
unreal dagger
oops
feral flower
He's annoying, arrogant, obnoxious and it's utterly hilarious.
I love his big stupid face.
unreal dagger
well yeah he's the champion, he has all the rights to be obnoxius
open berry
i love his manic laughter in em3, its so funny to listen to
unreal dagger
I love his big stupid face.
with the mask
I love seeing him fall on the floor when you break the chariot
"My chariot!"
feral flower
Bringing him the Yarn of Ariadne and seeing him get annoyed is great too.
I did it entirely by accident.
open tiger
Same
feral flower
So I was so happy when it just had voice lines.
open berry
theres like 3 or 4 reactions to it
plus im p sure the cretan princess painting is supposed to be ariadne
feral flower
Almost certainly.
open berry
the unfortunate part to that is that its a really good design and i want to see more 
maybe theseus will react to it in 1.0 but zag doesnt even know whos in the painting so idk how he would feasibly bring it up
feral flower
Maybe he'll come down to the house of hades to hang out.
dusty matrix
"Hey Asterius you should come to the House of Hades for a drink sometime, withou-"
Theseus: "Hellspawn, I am pleased to hear you want to have a drink with me! I shall this once humour you."
open berry
asterius can just pick sling him over his shoulder and cart him off somewhere when he misbehaves
put him in the time out corner
feral flower
It'll probably never happen. But it's a lovely thought.
Honestly, I'd be happy to get a chance to talk more with a lot of the characters.
Tisiphone, Theseus, Asterius need an affection track 😄
Alecto... Alecto scares me.
open berry
they are dedicated to their work, meg says as much of tisi as well
open berry
though greg wants antagonists to remain as such so no harassing theseus with overly aggressive acts of kindness like i want 😌
feral flower
I mean I'd be happy to talk to her more too, but she does scare me.
autumn void
extremely
feral flower
I mean, Meg is still an antagonist, and we get to make nice with her all the time.
open berry
but shes a resident of the house
so not really an antagonist
alecto and tisi arent allowed in
feral flower
Neither was Orpheus.
We fixed that.
I'd spend some gems to let them come in and have even more dialogue to enjoy.
open berry
i dont really see that as the same situation. orpheus refused to play, was punished for it, zag lifted the punishment. alecto and tisiphone arent allowed in the house at all because of their demeaner
and meg even pleaded with hades to not make her work with them, prior to them showing up
feral flower
I'm sure they'll behave.
Besides, Meg said they were getting along better.
And they've all cooperated long enough to pose for a painting too. I have faith.
upbeat willow
Sisters getting along better doesn't nessesarily mean tis and alecto would behave in the house
feral flower
It doesn't, no.
But honestly, I feel like it would be fine. Cereberus tore up the lounge. What would they do?
Torture shades?
autumn void
it would mess with the dynamic that SGG wants for them, pretty simply
they want tis and alecto to remain seperate from the house and to have any relationship with Zag, however that forms, to happen in Tartarus
feral flower
Have they said that? If it's their intent, that's fine.
unreal dagger
wait so I was reading the wiki, and apparently theseus has a charge attack where asterius just throws him into zag, ive never seen this
feral flower
I just like their characters and wouldn't be opposed to more.
open tiger
It's pretty rare
Wait!!! That's probably why Asterius freezes sometimes...I should mention that next time I report that
autumn void
it's evident from how the characters have been handled up until this point
the game itself makes this very clear
otherwise they would have been in the house by now, basically
open berry
comes back in from outside @feral flower yes, https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/477164376496013323/693150487096197131
open tiger
Tis already has an arc, and Alecto kinda has one? Adding them to the House would imply another full arc for both of them, in addition
autumn void
and that lol
open tiger
I think it's a good point to make, that some people just won't respond to your outreach
open berry
wonder what qa is gonna be like after 1.0 
probably tons of questions about will there be more content
clear oracle
Will there be more contents?
open tiger
Why are you asking Will?
dense sparrow
definitely not
unreal dagger
Wait, Ares and Nyx? I ship it
open tiger
Hahaha
dense sparrow
everyone ships that tho
unreal dagger
wait so I was reading the wiki, and apparently theseus has a charge attack where asterius just throws him into zag, ive never seen this
https://i.imgur.com/IjT0Jxc.mp4
so i paid close attention
and lmao
if you open the link you can hear theseus screaming lmao
lost gorge
Is the bullhorn move not common knowledge? It always happens for me, and it’s a super heavily telegraphed attack
lost gorge
Yeah, Theseus doesn’t always get the memo
lean orbit
Damn
unreal dagger
i just never noticed that it was asterius throwing him
yeah i thought it was just asterius charging
open tiger
I feel so bad xD I thought it was a bug and reported Asterius freezing so many times
lean orbit
I always thought it's ultra rare theseus move, never paid attention to asterius
unreal dagger
same^
i just read it from the wiki
so I paid close attention
kinda cool, adding some tag team action
guess ez hits on the bull
uncut mauve
Is there any lasting penalties for picking one Olympian over another when you get the choice between two and anger one?
autumn void
nope!
uncut mauve
goodie
unreal dagger
Other than the fact the olympian is mad as hell and will try to send you back to the house, no
I love how disappointed Zagreus sounds when he says "Ugh, had to choose"
feral flower
They get really pissed if you use their greater call as well.
They'll still do it, but they'll be all "How dare you!"
And Zagreus will just sound awkward and apologetic if you use the normal call.
uncut mauve
Aye
unreal dagger
Lmao, happened to me once with aphrodite "ill break your heart next"
coarse raptor
is it "worth" killing skelly with the fully upgraded Zag sword?
unreal dagger
I really wonder what would demeter do if she knew zag is her grandson
Since she feels out of the family
coarse raptor
is it necessary to do to get his favor?
feral flower
It has to be the sword.
unreal dagger
Oh ok
feral flower
The worst of them.
feral flower
It's twoish runs.
coarse raptor
yeah, so like an hour 😛
unreal dagger
Me sitting with 85 titan blood banked 
feral flower
One day. One day.
uncut mauve
is there anything... uh, special about getting to the end with no boons? 👀
feral flower
Not currently, as far as I know.
It'd be pretty hard to manage, all things considered.
thorn compass
Mortal ending
feral flower
You'd need fated authority and to restart until you got a hammer first room.
And even then you could easily get unlucky.
Though I suppose nothing is stopping you from selling boons.
And hoping that the Styx sack isn't in a boon room.
thorn compass
please the sack
coarse raptor
what are the first rthree river denizens?
atomic forge
Hellfish, Knucklehead, and Scyllascion.
coarse raptor
I have three Undiscovereds above that?
atomic forge
Chaos.
uncut mauve
I got "Olympus Caller" - what's that? Use greater call a bunch of times?
uncut mauve
cool
playing that instrument
is standing there mashing the use key do anything? or is it once per visit?
lean orbit
Mashing works, gotta do that for a good while too
But checking orpheus from time to time is also required
open berry
200+ interactions in total but theyre broken down into periodic updates from orpheus at like... i think it was about 20 - 60 - 110 - 210
open tiger
Mashing only kinda works, it only does something when the button prompt is visible
open berry
not exact numbers bc i cant recall off the top of my head but around there
open tiger
It was also totally broken when I did it, as in I skipped 60 and 110 xD
uncut mauve
I spent the diamonds to reunite him and his muse
open tiger
Zag's playing improved, but no dialogues with Orpheus (yes I reported)
uncut mauve
but like... I haven't come across her when I'm randomly wandering through asphodel
coarse raptor
Excalibur is super slow, but super fun!
open tiger
It's RNG to find her
open tiger
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
uncut mauve
and shield
feral flower
I wonder if they'll add something like that for the weights too.
uncut mauve
@_@
feral flower
So you can eventually flex and lift them.
open tiger
You can play weapons that don't have dark thirst :3
uncut mauve
that would break canonical reasoning 👀
I don't wanna play non-dark thirst weapons
because then I'd just keep using the same weapon
coarse raptor
I haven't seen the shield glow since I started in the Heats 😢
uncut mauve
Shield is easily my "lol, this is easy" weapon
how DID the weights get to my room anyway?
they are unliftable -> so... you roll them? you can roll them but not lift them?
feral flower
The house contractor put them there.
feral flower
Probably had a whole workforce lift them together.
uncut mauve
but they are unliftable
lean orbit
Nothing that a bunch of magic can't fix
Just teleport them. Teleporting is not lifting
lean orbit
coarse raptor
is there a prophecy for beating Charon?
open tiger
Yes
coarse raptor
how do I unlock it? 😢
open tiger
|| Hermes || gives it to you
coarse raptor
ahh... need more nectar
also, getting annoyed at Dusa/Sisyphus! I want their STUFF!
ancient arch
When Zag says ||they say never to meet your heroes|| in Elysium, who is he talking about? Is Theseus a hero to him? Is he a hero to red shade?
uncut mauve
"Favored and Envied" title got! Whatever/however I got it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Zag is talking about Theseus mostly
ancient arch
That title comes from doing a trial of the gods twice
uncut mauve
twice in one run? oh okay
looking back, I've gotten those titles more than once
welp
small ingot
Can I get the Kinetic Launcher hammer upgrade using the base zag aspect?
unreal dagger
Zag's playing improved, but no dialogues with Orpheus (yes I reported)
same
giving it a few runs into Orpheus before I F10
and would you look at that
SGG is reading discord
open tiger
xd
uncut mauve
are you more likely to find Eurydice if you use her acorn through asphodel?
crimson temple
There is no correlation. She will comment on it, though.
People would probably love if wearing Broken Spearpoint make Patroclus appear more often. Alas.
uncut mauve
meeting Patroclus though...
if you've used 3 death defies and meet him, I mean... that's dope
forcing it via his trinket?
OP
in my opinion anyway
crimson temple
Exactly
uncut mauve
||https://i.imgur.com/nioju2o.png|| I did it 
clear oracle
Some of the times it works everytime.
crimson temple
This is the first time I notice the bed in the background.
uncut mauve
lol
clear oracle
That's like the first thing I noticed lol. I was like did Zag just barge into someone's bedroom
crimson temple
And this "urgh those two are so embarassing together I can't watch this" skeleton.
Guess I need to take in the sights more on my runs. Clashes with the "gotta go fast" mentality.
unreal dagger
i dont think using eurydice acorn increases the chances of finding, just like using the chaos egg
uncut mauve
Will Orpheus ever come back? I need harp lessons :U
clear oracle
Yes
gilded agate
we can talk about current final boss here right?
cursive grotto
Hello, everyone. I'm trying to 100% Hades, and currently all I have left are to catch a couple Chaos fish, finish putting darkness into a mirror upgrade, and unlock the locked heart for Hermes and Cereberus.
Does anyone know how to trigger the special event with Hermes and Cereberus? I'm amazed it hasn't happened organically yet.
vapid parcel
for hermes: ||level his plume all the way and equip it before you talk to him||
Cerberus: ||pet the boi||
cursive grotto
Thanks. I suppose I haven't used that item, but I must admit I'm ashamed I haven't accomplished that second task.
Poor boi.
Quick question about that one. ||Can I put him many times in one go to advance toward the event or is there a limit per run? For example, if I have to pet him 50 times can I pet him 50 times in one sitting or do I have to pet him once over the course of 50 runs?||
gilded agate
honestly i hope they fully rework Hades if he stays a boss in final release. terribly designed
upbeat willow
how so?
gilded agate
mainly skulls. literally i shouldn't spend more time chasing down an add that he throws 3+ of then actually fighting the boss. like sometimes he just spams skulls and if u dont have reflect its just dumb
the hitbox on his beams is wonky as hell. the hitbox on urns is terrible as well
crimson temple
Granted, skulls are annoying, but destroying them can be forgone. Their shockwaves don't cover the whole arena, and can be dashed through. If they land in a hard to reach area, fight in the opposide side of the arena and evade the shockwave, provided it even reaches there. It takes a bit of practice to estimate how far they go.
As for the wonky hitboxes, I concur.
gilded agate
sure but when he throws 3 or more and covers all sides its like why?
and sometimes he will throw like none. sometimes all he does is spam skulls
crimson temple
Acting unpredictably isn't exactly bad design for a boss.
Since he doesn't summon in phase 2, something else is needed to divert the players attention.
If he doesn't throw skulls, just be glad.
cursive grotto
First, that is probably something more suited to the #hades-feedback I imagine. Second, I disagree entirely. There are many ways to handle skulls. You can simply avoid them, kill them, or dodge through them. They don't have many hit points at all and claiming to spend more time fighting skulls than Hades is clearly a hyperbole. As for the beam, I have literally seen my friends kite the beam inbetween rays rather than hide from it; I think the hit box is fine. I've never found the urns hitbox to be personally frustrating; they are simply large. There are also multiple ways to deal with them. Personally, I like to kill them before Hades does if possible or at least carve out a corner of the arena for me because I don't like accidentally running into them later when I'm in trouble.
fervent skiff
I agree with you completely except for the laser hitbox. Its still wonky
feral flower
More story related. The red shade in Elysium is just so delightful.
modern stone
thoughts on crazy pairings like Eurydice and Zag?
I feel like they vibe well together
crimson temple
She makes her opinion on the matter clear in-game.
feral flower
She's got her Orphy.
coral skiff
always say hi to the red shade
cursive grotto
Red shade gives me purpose.
silk pike
After 135 runs since my first victory against Charon, Ive finally gotten the Friendly Wager prophecy from Hermes
Now Im not saying that giving Hermes more nectar than the trinket nectar is a prerequisite, all Im saying is that I got it only after bringing my relationship up a bit.
cursive grotto
My understanding is that those prophecies correlate to your relationship with those particular gods.
That's what I personally think, anyway.
crimson temple
He says so much yet so little.
silk pike
All I know is, I really wanna see someone with the Friendly Wager Prophecy foretold at relationship level 1 Hermes so I can know for certain that my luck was that bad for 135 runs.
cursive grotto
Yeah, 135 runs is a lot if it's random. My relationship was already maxed except the locked heart and I got the wager prophecy the next time I talked to him after beating Charon.
lunar kiln
you need to have given at least 3 nectar bottles to hermes
otherwise the convo wont play
cursive grotto
Source?
lunar kiln
poking around in the game
silk pike
Im just gonna believe that until proven otherwise, thank you for the confirmation
lunar kiln
there's another prerequisite but you pretty much get it by simply playing the game
cursive grotto
In my mind you wouldn't make a bet with a stranger that he could beat up your friend and business partner twice in a row. There needs to be a relationship there.
Same goes with Ares and his prophecy and so on.
lunar kiln
as far as i'm aware when it comes to olympians you need to have given them a certain amount of nectar until they give you a prophecy
cursive grotto
Exactly.
lunar kiln
not necessarily all the way to the locked heart but you might as well do that
open berry
ares prophecy is literally tied into unlocking his heart so
eternal breach
I just got back from a trip so im chillin
lunar kiln
well yeah you need to complete it to unlock the last few hearts of his affinity gauge but you can start it before getting there
feral flower
Since the Pact is a spoiler, I'll ask here.
Do the skelly statues require that I do bounties up to 32? Or can I just skip to 32 if I feel like it?
feral flower
Woo.
feral flower
I feel bad for Zagreus trying to explain to Nyx that he thinks Ares is a pyschotic weirdo.
open berry
I don't lol zag even questions why he's being so defensive over it, it's more a kneejerk reaction than anything else
open tiger
I just got to that line lol, him questioning his own defensiveness
fickle comet
It's obviously because Zagreus is in love with Lady Nyx, and she's in love with him, and because he's so inexperienced, he's worried that she's interested in Lord Ares (platonically) because he doesn't know how to interpret it. 
crimson temple
He really weirded me out when he called Lady Nyx a "fine specimen".
fickle comet
He's basically a high-functioning psychopath who wants Zagreus to escape only so he can send him on a killing spree massacreing mortals in a senseless war, but that's when he weirded you out?
uncut mauve
I mean, Zeus just flat out hits on her
this picture btw
Ares comes off as a god of war -> who just wants an active "always happening" war -> and lots of death
lots and lots of death
anything or anyone killing a lot = Ares likey
straight up, he be like that 👀
atomic forge
Which is fun and silly in Elysium, not so much on the surface.
crimson temple
Zag after being sent to decide a war and killing ten heroes "wait, they don't respawn???"
atomic forge
I thought Ares was going to be a central-ish villain before Styx and Demeter.
And also SGG saying that gameplay ended with the Dad fight.
fickle comet
Lord Ares: "Hey Zagreus, what do you say you massacre everyone down there, and make it bloody and painful. I really love when there's a bloodbath, hearing their cries . . ."
Zagreus: "Sounds good!"
Lord Ares: "And then, let's start some wars and massacre more once you reach the surface for no reason at all except our own entertainment."
Zagreus: "Sign me up! You're a true gentleman!"
Lord Ares: "ur mom is hot"
Zagreus: "Weirdo."
crimson temple
IK right?
fervent skiff
Welcome to greek mythology kiddos
crimson temple
The saga continues when everyone tries to convince Zag that they are only friends and he's sort of like "that can't be all there is to it"
"nothing untoward" (I think Athena says that)
But that what makes the arc so thoroughly enjoyable.
feral flower
I mean living in the underworld probably alters his perspective a bit.
He knows Nyx, she's his mom.
Those mortals will die eventually and come to the underworld anyway.
Probably something like that.
feral flower
But you both go outside.
crimson temple
Hades probably tried to run into walls or over banana peels too.
He's no match for the Narrator.
autumn void
that intro quote is definitely pointing towards something, because he has an ominously similar line sometimes before death at the end of a run
manic yoke
This isn’t in the game but some rougelites often have a secret final boss or a special final sequence I bet hades will do that if not in 1.0 then afterwords
autumn void
we'd have to wait and see if anything of that nature would suit the narrative well. because if it doesn't, SGG definitely will not bother, i think
manic yoke
I mean I’ve spent 50 hours building some long term realationships with these characters. There needs some closure somewhere to deal with where it’s all going and it’s not just Zagreus meeting his surface level goal pun intended
autumn void
i don't think closure would at all come in the form of some ultimate super powerful secret boss, though
feral flower
There is absolutely going to be closure plotwise.
autumn void
yes, that's not really being debated
manic yoke
A lot of video game frame their endgame rpilogue stuff as a boss battle climax
autumn void
SGG isn't always taking the "a lot of video games" approach, as is evident from their other 3 games, really
manic yoke
I actually think sgg does lean on a lot of tropes for its designs
Pyre has this book long epilogue section that feels lifted out of any fire emblem game
autumn void
that's not at all how i would interpret it, but you're welcome to see it that way i guess
manic yoke
It’s an ending where you get a little bit of final scenery with each character lots of rpgs take that kind of mechanism
autumn void
just because that specific idea is used in a supergiant game doesn't mean that they're absolutely going to have a super secret final boss after hades though lol
like, i don't see how that leads into the other thing
the epilogue in pyre served the narrative just fine
i'm not convinced that zagreus needs another climactic boss fight after hades himself, right now
regardless of whether other games have done it before
manic yoke
There’s a few things that lead me into this idea that there’s another boss or more like, content beyond some story after hades
The first is that hades is never really beaten
Because he’s a major character and they have some character development they’ve never done with him
The second is that the mystery of phersphone is played really close to the chest.
You have to go through a ton of dialogue with Demeter first before you really get any sense of who she is
autumn void
i mean, there are plenty of clues around that point towards hades' actions around stopping zagreus not being entirely malicious at all. i don't think the final battle is supposed to represent zagreus totally destroying his father. i just don't believe "beating" him beyond sending him back to pass through to the surface is necessary
manic yoke
Yeah so we need a story beat describing hades true intentions and if there’s no gameplay around that, it will probably no be very good
autumn void
the lines you get from hades after defeating both phases are typically sad, somber, filled with regret. him coming back with some unfounded vengeance after being defeated the first time wouldn't fit at all
manic yoke
But also the setup of what’s going on is bizarre. You beat hades and “lose” but hades wants to keep it a secret and the game just keeps going
autumn void
that's just straight up underworld renovations shenanigans
1.0 will shift that whole dynamic, i'm sure
manic yoke
Hope so there is a fair amount of implied dialogue around it though
autumn void
yeah, the forced return to the house after winning is supposed to feel jarring
it's just because the true conclusion isn't ready yet
we just have to wait for 1.0 now
manic yoke
Here’s another thing: is the game “beaten” when you finish the first run in 1.0? A ton of story stuff happens after that point
autumn void
yeah, myself and many others are wondering the same thing too
how you continue playing after achieving a fully fleshed out ending
we just have to wait and see pretty much
manic yoke
Yeah but also like, does the story restructure itself to happen earlier on an assumed time of first completion?
I feel like not only are we missing the ending but we’re also missing the true middle part too
drifting citrus
imo the game isn't gonna "end" on first clear
crimson temple
I think that there will be some decisive story event hidden behind many other, less consequential lines that will drive the game forward from Sisyphean repetition of escape attempts (what we are doing now) to attempts of another purpose.
drifting citrus
what i think is gonna happen is a series of quests/dialogue similar to the quests already in the game (sisyphus, orpheus/eurydice, etc)
autumn void
right, i do think the lines of hades talking about never being able to "truly" leave are important
and will come into play more in 1.0
crimson temple
The events about why Hades became God of the Underworld will have to be elaborated on in some way.
autumn void
if only to structure the further events beyond what we know of now during blood price
yeah, we're missing a lot on dad
manic yoke
Yeah so there needs to be some other condition besides just completing a run that completes the game
open berry
There’s a few things that lead me into this idea that there’s another boss or more like, content beyond some story after hades
@manic yoke greg has said there is no more gameplay beyond the current point. where the gameplay portion of the game ends now (fighting hades) is how its going to remain for 1.0
as far as how the story itself is going to conclude, i personally feel like youre going to have to complete a minimum # of runs before the actual ending for the game will even open up to you. theres plenty of dialogue in the game already thats gated behind minimum runs, so the ending probably will be as well
theres sure to be other conditions involved as well but i think a min # will be a given
autumn void
i agree with you, yeah
open berry
ofc people finishing on the file they've played through early access wont see any difference lol but on a fresh file i highly doubt you'll be able to just start a new game and hit the ending right away
they have to ensure the player participates in the gameplay loop enough to pick up relevant story and hits whatever triggers they set up for the ending to unlock
autumn void
right; the bulk of players who complete a single run automatically miss out on a ridiculous amount of content if that's where the narrative is able to give you the overarching conclusion. it's far too soon
open berry
yeah, given that the narrative is entwined with the gameplay itself, and you can only speak with characters once per run anyway
though with the rng of dialogue it makes me wonder if anyone will try story speedrunning the game, depending on what the conditions for the ending are rofl
autumn void
speedrunning my healthy relationships
open berry
open berry
aw 
drifting citrus
normalize being nice to hypnos
open berry
never not gonna be annoyed about that 'than you're mean to hypnos, and that's coming from someone who's mean to hypnos a lot' line, what the genuine heck was that zagreus
autumn void
lmao
drifting citrus
when hypnos is the only one in the house without a major quest attached to him
3 people have reunion quests, 3 people have romantic routes, 1 is dad, 1 is cerby, and then there's mr. sleepy hallway man
open berry
i know all characters are still getting additional content for 1.0 but frankly im not holding my breath on that front lmao. i'll be surprised if anything with nyx gets resolved and she talks to her son again. my hopes for anything meaningful happening with hypnos are really just that low. like im glad he got something with than but geez
prob more contractor items coming though, ive been too burned out to grind gems to finish the new stuff we got as it is. maybe we can get some more things to spruce up the areas achilles, hypnos and orpheus stay though 😔 or maybe hades will get too annoyed at things cluttering around him since orpheus is next to him LOL
atomic forge
Hypnos has Asterius's autograph.
drifting citrus
hypnos/asterius reunion quest when
open berry
hypnos should be able to visit the west hall when you have theseus portrait up, he should love to see that
drifting citrus
crack ship: bull x the embodiment of sleep
atomic forge
gotta buy the portrait to hang it up
open berry
"crack" ship hahahahahha
unreal dagger
Maybe we can spend gems and darkness so get an extra effect before each run, giving them a meaning?
Like in immortal redneck you can buy scrolls with whatever money you have left
Cause rn darkness is useless for me
Maybe we can spend gems and darkness so get an extra effect before each run, giving them a meaning?
Kinda like we have bouldy for nectar, something not that impact full but still gives nectar meaning after you've bonded with everyone
Actually just that, give eurydice something for gems and patroclus something for darkness
And we can use keys to reroll charon shop
I'm having a mental breakdown
dusty matrix
Let me feed my weapons extra darknesssss
unreal dagger
Or that
dusty matrix
Offer up darkness to the sigil
dusty matrix
Be able to give gems to the 2 shades at the counters next to chef
throw a party in the lounge
unreal dagger
Be able to give gems to meg and we get a free pass
dusty matrix
What if we run into Alecto/Tis?
Bribe no work 😦
Lol, use gems to decor the boss rooms
unreal dagger
throw gems at theseus while he's speaking for fun
atomic forge
Zag throwing a single gem bouncing off his forehead every time he tries to get a speech going.
coarse kestrel
hey how do you unlock the 4th weapon aspect of every weapon?
open berry
check pinned messages for this channel
coarse kestrel
ohhh that was easy to find hahah
thanks
Aegis: Aspect of Beowulf. Unlock the Aspect of Guan Yu, then invest at least 5 Titan Bloods into any Shield aspects. Chaos should tell you more in a conversation soon after that. "I see you stand your ground against the serpent's flame."
hmmm weird i have the chaos shield max out and the zeus one unlocked...do i need to spend more?
feral flower
You just need to RNG into the dialogue with Chaos now.
coarse kestrel
ohhh ok
bad luck i guess, considering i enter every single chaos gate i see
but ok thank you
lost gorge
i wish the aspect dialogue had more priority because it can really feel lame to have to go thru 10-15 boons to get the proper line
lean orbit
Well, that sounds as a valid feedback for appropriate channel, so maybe submit that?
silk pike
I hope the Asterius Autograph sidequest becomes a legitimate fated minor prophecy
Mostly so I can get more free ambrosia or Diamonds or whatever the reward would be
open berry
oh my god i could cry im done. most of the organizational work post update was done by @molten temple but the contractor wiki page is officially up to date with images
obvious spoilers if you havent unlocked everything and dont want to see stuff youre missing
molten temple
praise be tatz. i've been off Hades in general for a week or so but thank you so much
open berry
i dont ever want to look at these tables again
i did also fix some stuff like temp entries you left, took out the old cerberus entry bc buying it with diamonds doesnt exist anymore, and peach sent me a bunch of screenshots of all the tabs so i didnt have to keep opening the game and tabbing in and out to compare data lol
i havent really been grinding gems so im still missing a lot of stuff and peach already had like. almost everything bought so that was easier
uncut mauve
Orpheus is too busy to teach me every time I visit
either talking to someone, talking about something else, or just not there
@_@
oh well
fallen prairie
How many times does one have to get tips from Orpheus?
coarse raptor
does Zag EVER guess the irght Fury?
heavy warren
lol I had the well item for health drops
and left a drop alone for a couple seconds
dashed back after I cleared the encounter to pick it up
Zagreus says "Five-second rule. That was five seconds, right?"
this game really has everything
coarse raptor
ahh I don't think it's happened yet for me in 51 runs haha
open berry
ive had it happen every so often
lean orbit
Happens to me like 50% of the time
dense sparrow
how many times do you have to play the lyre for a tip from odysseus
dense sparrow
that can get boring
fallen prairie
I think I've nearly reached a total of 200 plays. Or maybe even crossed it, don't know. I'll have to wait on the dialogue anyway.
I did like how Zag's dialogue changed after he got a tip from Orphy.
open tiger
I just did it three times after each run
Didn't take that long
(didn't feel like it did, at least)
fallen prairie
Except for that one time I pretty much played it 5-10 times before and after runs.
cloud geode
Hold on, heard you were talking about Asterius' autograph. I recall you have to do something specific for it but what?
feral flower
Just talk to them enough times.
After dying enough times.
To both Asterius and to Theseus.
silent pond
yo, hold up, whats the second entry in the artifact category? Its listed as undiscovered even though Ive done everything the game had to offer, I think
between darkness and infernal trove
Is my save file too old for it or smth?
feral flower
Maybe you use Stygian soul too much :d
feral flower
Maybe because the game is coded so that rooms need a reward.
Or maybe just for fun.
silent pond
funny that I didnt use infernal soul ever since that codex entry was added lol
welp, Ive filled it in now
dense sparrow
dont feel bad for Theseus, feel bad for Zag bc he lost the chance to get the autograph of one of the most famous demigods in greek history
crimson temple
There are plenty of famous people in the real world whose autograph I would only touch with tongs.
upbeat willow
Those poor tongs how will they ever cope
lunar kiln
hades but it's a multiplayer game where you play as theseus and the 2nd player is asterius
the premise is mostly the same but zagreus is the elysium boss now
also theseus is as insufferable as he is in the normal game
feral flower
I'd play a game with those two as the stars.
coarse raptor
why the heck does unlocking the favours take so long? I capped my Sisyphus hearts super early and still haven't gotten his damn pet (at run 52 or so now)
feral flower
Because there is a lot of dialogue.
That's part of the fun of the game.
I didn't know about favors and companions until it happened, and I was much happier for it.
It's not like they're a vital part of stuff.
coarse raptor
It’s not part of the fun to have people repeat dialogue when there’s a story progression to have
The dialogue progression is definitely fun, but it should be a bit more guaranteed
dusty matrix
Sisyphus was the longest one for me because it requires talking to multiple people 
feral flower
He doesn't repeat dialogue until you've gone through everything he can say.
dusty matrix
Ah, is there not a spot where if you haven't progressed enough he'll repeat?
feral flower
If you go through all his dialogue pre-favor, he'll go to generic lines until you do the other stuff required. Talking to Nyx and all that.
But that stuff shouldn't take long enough for you to actually reach that for the most part.
dusty matrix
RNG is pretty mean sometimes, but yeah
coarse raptor
I mean I talk to everyone all the time, Sisyphus was repeating himself while I didn’t see much of Meg as well
viscid fjord
so after beating 20 heat on sword there is no more bounties? does anybody know that will always be the case or can we get more bounties when the game updates.
split kelp
Not sure. With the various prophecies, the broker and if necessary Charon Styx shop 21 levels of bounties per weapon are more than enough.
open berry
bounties end at 20 heat, yes, 25 on hell mode. i honestly dont see that changing, im sure they want you to utilize the broker too
feral flower
You probably won't need more than that honestly.
drifting citrus
you have access to broker and to prophecies
there's more than enough resources to max everything out
feral flower
21 bounties per weapon, With six infernal arms. That's 126 of each and 252 titan's blood.
You'll be fine.
Even without the broker, Charon's shop and the various other freebies you get.
It only takes 51 Titan's blood to fully max out every aspect of a weapon. So that's 306 Titan's blood in total. You need 54 over what bounties give you.
29 from the prophecies currently in the game.
So you need 25 more. You'll have more than enough diamonds and ambrosia for that.
viscid fjord
im not that worried about resources i was just wondering
sturdy ridge
In my humble opinion I think enemies that "disappear" should not clear all their debuffs
Namely the Sneak and the final boss
open tiger
you can drop that in #hades-feedback :3
open tiger
I agree for the Sneak, not sure about final boss
open berry
My first encounter with sneak was with rama bow and it was an absolutely miserable experience
drifting citrus
sneak basically makes doom useless 😔
dense sparrow
how?
open tiger
it moves before doom goes off
drifting citrus
doom is a status effect, and disappearing makes statuses go away
dense sparrow
so it also invalidates poison
sturdy ridge
Well... poison might tick before he disappears but doom doesn't. Talking about his fast ranged attack blink, not the slow melee
open berry
it also negates rama's ability so you cant track with it. if youre fast enough you can get a good shot off but otherwise it just teleports around too much and rama's ability is completely useless against it, which is why i was miserable lmao
me: oh neat new miniboss :D
me, unable to get any status to stick to it: this blows! :'D
viscid fjord
in the codex whats the thing inbetweent he keys and the hammer?
drifting citrus
anvils of fate
viscid fjord
oh yeah i see them i just never buy them cause i like my boons
i guess ill buy them in this run just to have it unlocked in the codex, thanks
unreal dagger
it can either win your run, or completely screw your build
I always get it since I run approval process 
cant get any worse
barren knoll
is this the right place to ask how to unlock the charon fight?
viscid fjord
steal that fools money
barren knoll
is there something special i need to do or do i jsut gotta wait for him to spawn the bag behind him
like is it just rng for the fight to happen
open tiger
It's either 20% or 22% chance to spawn per run shop
I still haven't gotten a straight answer on which
feral flower
Per shop, not per run.
open tiger
Err, yeah
barren knoll
then i have some bad luck then oof
open tiger
Yee
feral flower
Are you going to mid-biome shops?
barren knoll
ya
feral flower
Just unlucky I guess.
viscid fjord
examining the statues in the west hall, does that do anything
or reading the time? like if i spam it will i eventually get dialogue or some type of trigger or they just there to look pretty
feral flower
Just dialogue.
viscid fjord
how many times do you got to interact with them? is there a specific one you got to interact with
also how the heck do you get chaos legendary boon, the chaos boon and hermes legendaries are the two i have not been able to see no matter what.
feral flower
Chaos legendary boon is pretty rare.
It can't show up on the first chaos.
I've only seen it like 2-3 times in over 100 hours.
Hermes is easy though. Take the pre-reqs and it'll eventually show up. Having the legendary mirror buff helps.
barren knoll
i beaten the boss sorry i saw the answer late
unreal dagger
i got 115 hrs, never seen chaos legendary
open tiger
Oof, I've seen it 3,4 times
open tiger
Just gotta visit Master Chaos frequently
viscid fjord
have 164 hours there is only 5 boons i never seen a random chaos boon and legendary, and then 1 random hermes boon and 2 legendary hermes boons
graceful quail
Anyone else think would be cool if when meeting Eurydice after the barge of death that run, if she is alone she is singing "the spine of the world" instead?
feral flower
What, like from Transistor? Might be a cute easter egg.
Feel free to say something in #hades-feedback
Feel free to say something in #hades-feedback
icy schooner
I've never seen a legendary aside from huge catch
I have over half the duo boons down but no legendaries
unreal dagger
legendaries have requirements, just like duo boons
also make sure to equip that mirror upgrade that increases the chances
icy schooner
I have it maxed
and know the boon trees
I can reroll an offering multiple times and not get offered any boons which require one of the 3 boons of theirs I already have as a prereq
feral flower
You've never seen a legendary even with the maxed out mirror talent?
icy schooner
nope
feral flower
And the pre-reqs?
Are you making sure to fill up your priority slots? Attack, Special, Cast, Dash?
icy schooner
yep
feral flower
That seems like... Incredibly unlikely.
I'd double check to make sure you know the pre-reqs properly and have the talent equipped.
Otherwise that's pretty astronomically unlucky.
icy schooner
the only thing is that I usually don't go for cast builds so it's the last slot that gets filled if there's literally any slightly better option
feral flower
I dunno what to tell you, they should be happening ^^
Make sure to use the god keepsake to force them to appear once you have the requirements on the wiki.
atomic forge
@hollow mortar Per your post in feedback, I just choose to believe the positions aren't accurate and Zag and Meg are sitting next to each other learning an important lesson in valuing each other.
hollow mortar
That's an interesting way of putting it.
atomic forge
Basically it's an excuse for me imagining the two of them holding hands.
open berry
zag 🤝 meg
holding hands
drifting citrus
zag 🤝 ||hypnos||
holding hands
open berry
god i would cry
atomic forge
OT3, I think.
feral flower
True, true.
open tiger
XD same brain cell Schpoon
wicked lotus
This is cool...
I think I m gonna be pro at Greek Mythology when I m done with the game
tbh i just came to know about hades because it like Hades as a God like everyone makes him evil or something when in real he's just the management guy lol
open berry
hades and ares are always like. the easy go to gods when people need a quick villain in their greek myth inspired media when thats not how they were at all lol
open berry
ares' worst crimes is his relation to the brutality of war. in terms of things he actually did vs things other gods did, he was fairly tame
i mean he was pretty hated and this is reflected in how often hes made a mockery of
but hes also notably a god that wasnt really associated with as many nonconsensual things as some others in the pantheon
also disagree hades is evil. i do not believe sg's intent is to portray hades as a villain in any capacity. he's emotionally abusive, this is undeniable, but that is not inherently evil but if you want to argue on that topic we would have to take that to general because i would have to pull in personal anecdotes for that, which isnt appropriate here 🤧
atomic forge
Hades is not evil but he is definitely a villain in the context of Hades from Zagreus's perspective.
Not just an antagonist, but a villain.
open berry
Oh for sure, especially since Zag can't understand why his father won't simply let him leave
but that's also an important part of the puzzle we're not privvy to yet
feral flower
He's still his child. And it's implied it's been going on forever. And I would consider it evil. Even if you assume it comes from a place of love, which I don't believe even for an instant. Good intentions don't mean anything. The road to hell is paved on good intentions. The acts are evil. They're harmful and cruel. Calling your own son worthless and drilling that so much into their head so that they use it as motivation to fight through legions of the dead is pretty extreme.
He constantly berates, insults and demeans Zagreus. The line about "Aprhodite has no jurisdiction here" in the fight between them is incredibly cruel.
I consider it evil. Malice isn't required for evil, but he still has malice aplenty. He literally laughs and mocks you for failing in Erebus rooms.
open berry
Being someone's child and being a child are not really the same when you want to throw around accusations of child abuse.
feral flower
Offpsring abuse then, if you prefer. Still evil.
open berry
its emotional abuse, just call it what it is
unkempt sapphire
hades is definitely abusive
feral flower
I think it stopped being emotional abuse around the point he skewers you with a spear.
open berry
and??? meg still fights you too but that's just fine because you have a better relationship? be consistent
feral flower
Meg also doesn't engage in constant emotional abuse. I wouldn't have called their relationship healthy to start either, till they talked and actually discussed things. At least it's her job. The fact that it's her job says horrid things about Hades as well.
The sheer spite from Hades at every little thing really doesn't make me think he's anything but terrible.
It's clear they're building up to something in the story. Some reason you can't leave. But I really can't see any way for this to shake out that makes me think that Hades is at all justified in the way he's acted.
unkempt sapphire
hades outside of this game might not be evil but he's portrayed here as calling his own son worthless and its implied to be because of his red blood/being a quarter human. Maybe he's trying to keep zagreus in hell so the olympian gods don't find out but I find it hard to believe it's for zagreus's sake and not for selfish reasons
open berry
The fact that it's her job says horrid things about Hades as well.
lord almighty, this is like so miniscule in the grand scheme of things, you do know how the erinyes were depicted in myth, yes? This seems like such a baffling thing to get hung up over and just seems like you're looking for any justification to assert Hades fits your view of evil
this isn't going to go anywhere, I'm pulling out before things get heated lol i need to sleep soonanyway
feral flower
I know how they were depicted in Myth, how is that related? Hades is forcing her to try and kill Zag. That's not part of the normal duty of the Erinyes.
But ok! Night night. I disagree with you, but have a nice one regardless.
And yeah Zana, I agree.
unkempt sapphire
I've always felt bad for zagreus because it's not just Meg but all the people that live in the house with zagreus are people who love him but can't help him because of their jobs under hades
feral flower
If it was for Zagreus's sake, he could just... Say something. Anything. And I can't see how belittling him constantly helps at all.
unkempt sapphire
supposedly he's a good boss though but just a horrible father
feral flower
Depends on how you define a good boss. But sure, he seems like a strict, hardworking boss.
Hard for me to think of him as a good boss considering you have to force him to give Achilles the freedom to go to Elysium to see Patrocles during his time off.
unkempt sapphire
ah I haven't gotten to that point yet, I was just going by what meg says about him
(dont worry though I don't care too much about spoilers like that)
unkempt sapphire
nah ur fine
feral flower
Without saying too much, my impression of him is that he works as hard as any of his employees, but he is a very rigid sort of boss. Inflexible. But he won't punish people for trying to do their job.
Though he will absolutely insult and berate them.
wicked lotus
I really think what we need is a good talk from Persephone
she'll definitely set thing's straight for everyone, she's the queen of hell after all 
brazen pilot
I don't know how or why but I have a nagging feeling Skelly is Persephone in some kind of tricky disguise.
lean orbit
A tad too tricky for my taste
crimson temple
It would probably be in character for Skelly to pretend to be Zag's mom for a few seconds.
"How big and strong you have grown! Come over here and give your mother a good whack!"
lean orbit
Oh for sure
Not sure how incinerated skelly would be by zagreus after this joke comes out, but it's def something skelly can do
dense sparrow
skelly wont play the same joke twice tho, he already pretended to be someone else i.e Schelemeus
crimson temple
He also pretended that Stygius could kill him.
And in the same vein, he could have many other pranks up his invisible sleeves.
dense sparrow
well, up his marrow you should say
tranquil lichen
How the hell do I forge a bond with Athena? Someone said you need a few Perfect Clears, I just did 6 in a row and still nothing, always begin with her keepsake too
feral flower
Just clear runs and keep talking to her.
And make sure you've given her the max amount of nectars, of course.
tranquil lichen
Yeah, I've been doing that for a few dozen runs now, while grinding gemstones, out of things to buy with gemstones now and still nothing
She's repeating her lines too
feral flower
Are you winning those runs? She only says those lines post a won run.
heavy warren
With the Hermes quest active, if I beat Charon once, am I guaranteed to get a Charon encounter next run or is it more RNG?
lean orbit
Praise the RNgesus
ancient arch
It’s not guaranteed. It took me a long tine to see it again.
I have a bond forged with Athena and I’ve never done a perfect clear. I think it has something to do with Nyx.
vapid parcel
yes, you just can't lose to him
uncut mauve
is there any tell to point out if I've played the instrument enough times to get new lessons from orpheus?
rotund sedge
As soon as Zagreus starts playing Greek LoFI, you hit up the homie Orpheus for the juice.
dense sparrow
there is usually no tell, just a difference in the notes you play
rotund sedge
Eventually Zagreus just plays for about 5-6 seconds, that's when you're ready to talk to Orph
heavy warren
ok so I beat Charon twice
with no other Charon fights in between
but the prophecy isn't done?
silk pike
I think people have reported that there seems to be a bug where you need to fight him 3 times to complete the prophecy
uncut mauve
plays for 5ish seconds straight?
wew
well, I haven't had that happened yet
how many times do you need to practice from the 2nd lesson to the third? @_@
heavy warren
Think we'll be able to meet Daedalus in the full release?
upbeat willow
based on the roadmap I doubt it
heavy warren
Can you link the roadmap
upbeat willow
the roadmap is in game; bottom right on the title screen
heavy warren
Also any updates on who the narrator is?
open tiger
Maybe the poet you get a bust of, but that's just a theory
I have a pocket theory (as in, not serious) that it's Hades
heavy warren
Oh yeah the 1 is probably Perse isn't it