@feral flower it isn't a "lame excuse". It was one of the first things covered by the professor when I took a class on classics years ago.
#h1-story-discussion
rotund sedge
feral flower
We don't judge the greek gods of mythology as human because they're not portrayed as such. They're story gods.
But in this game, all the characters are characters. They're presented as people with very human motivations.
Hades as well. He's got a dog he's fond of, he's got a demanding job. He's presented as a person, not some capricious 'other' thing.
rotund sedge
No they arent
The gods in this game are as petty and wacky as they are in greek literature.
Greek Gods are all nutty and they did a really good job bringing that across.
feral flower
They've worked very hard to make them non-alien and a lot more human. The incest was removed, the more absurd stuff is treated as an absurdity.
rotund sedge
All the absurd stuff is still there Zeus behaves pretty close to source material in a lot of ways.
feral flower
Until he turns into a swan in order to sleep with a woman, I'm not convinced about that.
thorny surge
they are admittedly less wacky than their myth counterparts
feral flower
They're more compelling as characters because they've been heavily humanized.
thorny surge
and/or less of an ass
open berry
very confused about this assertion theyre more humanized because thats also a point of classical portrayal in that they have very human flaws but ramped up because gods
rotund sedge
Me too
feral flower
My point is that we're invited to view them as people by the story. To relate to them. They're not some alien, ineffable beings. They're somewhat over the top, they have strange priorities sometimes, and they're immortal, but we're meant to view them as people.
rotund sedge
specially when there are interactions in game that purposefully tell you that Humans and Gods don't interact the same way
feral flower
Not as phenomena.
rotund sedge
Achilles and Zagreus have a conversation about mating and how Gods have or don't have multiple lovers.
feral flower
That is an incredibly minor thing though.
The interactions between Zagreus, a god, and other gods are very similar in tone to his interactions with mortals.
rotund sedge
right
rotund sedge
When a human character tells you that the Gods and Humans work in different ways, that's a minor detail that's unimportant to the story
or the rest of what's going on.
😐
feral flower
Humans have never had multiple lovers?
Gods more regularily have multiple lovers, that doesn't make them aliens.
That's super minor.
rotund sedge
That's an intext citation. The stuff that's taken into account when examining plot and analyzing literature in both English classes and when studying the Classics.
Why doesn't Zagreus have to worry about getting romantically linked between all these people?
Because he is a god and the greek gods are operating with a different morality than humans.
To the credit of SuperGiant, they are always reminding you that this isn't a human plane
feral flower
This isn't classic mythology though. This is a retelling. And we're presented with identifiable characters with very human motivations.
rotund sedge
or things working on a similar human experience.
feral flower
They're not human, but we're invited to treat them very much like human.
rotund sedge
No, you're wanting to treat them in a human way.
dusty matrix
If we're talking morals, Demeter is pretty bad
rotund sedge
When Nyx tells you that she isn't talking to Hypnos until the coming of the new age
feral flower
And I feel like discounting the way they act because they're gods is missing the point. We're not supposed to think "Oh Hades is a god, we can't really judge him" we're supposed to think he's horrible and he's presented as the main antagonist and motivation.
rotund sedge
You're being explicitly hinted at that these aren't regular people.
feral flower
When Chaos and Nyx's relationship unfolds, them not talking to each other is presented as a very relateable family dynamic that we want to fix.
Because it's bad.
rotund sedge
Zagreus acts human because he is directly influenced by Humans.
dusty matrix
Wait he is?
rotund sedge
Everybody else is acting in the goofy Greek Gods way because they are Goofy Greek gods.
Zagreus's main influencers are Achilles, Sysiphus and Orpheus
dusty matrix
Well I guess his bloodline does suggest
rotund sedge
The whole game is set up with very Classic themes
Coming out of the underworld and defeating death is present in the Odyssey and the Iliad.
This game is super rad that way.
wary agate
curious about what they're gonna do with persephone
rotund sedge
Maybe the last aspect of the Gloves is hers
for when she finally puts hands on Hades in the future
Gonna box him out of his throne.
😂
wary agate
I think she'll be the true final boss and she'll be unkillable
after all, there is no escape
dusty matrix
Zag getting emotional crit'd
rotund sedge
Probably a good time to start reading random greek literature
odds are it'll be weird and petty.
Greek Gods are terrible parents 9/10
graceful quail
I have to say I like to get to elysium only to annoy Theseus
wary agate
as I recall, Persephone was kidnapped by Hades, married him, Demeter got pissed off and killed all crops on Earth until Hades returned her
and after eating some seeds on the way Persephone is now fated to spend half her year with Hades and half with her mother
(that explains the seasons)
graceful quail
In the game however it doesn't seem like that's entirely true
Hades Wants nothing to with her, maybe hearthbroken because she left him, Demeter doesn't know what happen but she blames the mortals
Nyx knows where she is but she have a pact with her to not say
rotund sedge
Pretty sure that when you get to the ending of v1.0
wary agate
maybe the story is unfolding during this particular event?
rotund sedge
You get to the final boss which is Persephone and then...
Eat Pray Love starts playing
to explain persephone's journey
graceful quail
Final boss is the narrator
wary agate
isn't Hades the narrator?
graceful quail
Nope
wary agate
hm, I was under that impression
thorny surge
lmao no
graceful quail
In your first run he even mention hades on the third person
thorny surge
not by far
wary agate
Demeter mentions Hestia and Hera are at odds with the rest of the pantheon
wonder if we'll get their boons
probably not
graceful quail
Imagine the narrator randomly telling what's gonna kill you in the final battle and you having to dodge it
feral flower
The devs said they're not intending to add more gods.
graceful quail
I bet Persephone is just living a normal human life, using her power of spring to keep mortals alive regardless of her mother's cruel winter
More gods to come in the special DLC / second game : hades battle into hell: now is persephonal, with Persephone fight into hell to beat hades in a heated marital argument
"I be taking custody of zagreus and Cerberus, hades! - over my dead body! - that can be arrange "
wary agate
that's unfortunate, I was hoping for some fire-based boons from Hestia
rotund sedge
the problem with adding more gods is that the work is exponential.
Any time you add a new god, you need X amount of voice lines, then all the duo boon dialogue and actually designing and balancing the duo boons
they could add more gods if they would forgo all the polish.
rotund sedge
I didnt know this was an early access game when I got it.
Game is ridiculous as is.
upbeat willow
The focus for SG is readying v1.0 atm yeah toki
dusty matrix
I assume the current ending repeats after awhile?
open tiger
Yeah
feral flower
The old man dialogue?
dusty matrix
Geez, there are so many of them
open tiger
I think they're on the wiki?
feral flower
My favorite one is slipping on a banana peel.
keen coral
my favorite is him agreeing too dive into a talking pool of blood
dusty matrix
Trying to gather screenshots of those
wary agate
I just got that "stepped into a farming tool and died" ending
ashen latch
the end cards are great
wary agate
yeah I have 87 hours on this game and I feel I barely scratched the surface
ashen latch
my favorite ones are when the narrator starts running out of ideas
and makes stuff up on the spot
keen coral
same Blaze
dusty matrix
Hoping I can collect them all before v1.0 xD
supple dagger
Someone (other than me because I don't have mod privileges there) should definitely have a page dedicated to dialogue trees. :3
feral flower
There's way too much dialogue to do that.
open berry
well it's not just that there's too much dialogue but also that much of the dialogue is chained together and relies on seeing other dialogue, that in turn relies on seeing some other bits, and so on
at best you can take specific convo and just reduce it down to the most relevant pieces to that convo
depends on what kinda dialogue trees you want though, I can make the effort in my free time but it just. depends.
open tiger
@pine wyvern Congrats!! Which end screen are you talking about?
pine wyvern
So I see all the boons I had over the course of this run, or at least the ones I had in effect when I defeated Hades.
And I can place a certain number of little token looking things on them.
open tiger
yup! you can click on them on the left side to change which ones appear, for the purposes of screenshotting ( #h1-victory-boasting )
pine wyvern
Outstanding. I'll post there after whatever story stuff takes place following this screen.
nova kite
remind me, can zag romance all 3, or just one.
atomic forge
All 3.
drifting citrus
no consequences
nova kite
So ||the bed scenes are purely optional? not a commit to one. Just got a surprise visit from meg, its hilerious||
atomic forge
The bedroom scenes are where you seal the deal on the romance.
I turned down Than but consummated my relationship with Meg.
Mega Spoilers: ||That did lock me out of the threesome scene, however.||
drifting citrus
pretty sure they're still needed to fully forge the bond, regardless of what outcomes happen though
oh schpoon, maybe related:
did you also get a bunch of new dialogue from than this update, and none from meg
atomic forge
Nah, I got Mort and all that jazz before the bedroom scene.
I did, but I assumed that was additional dialogue for Than as well as Hypnos-related dialogue.
drifting citrus
like, regular conversations about other people
atomic forge
Yeah.
drifting citrus
ah, i was confused why meg didn't seem to have any new in-house dialogue and thought maybe it was related to who i romanced
doesn't seem so, now?
nova kite
why do i have a worrying feeling that ||There's going to be an final boss past hades that's ethier persephone, or the olympian gods||
upbeat willow
in the 1.0 roadmap it says there's only gonna be 1 more boss varient
so that rules out the potential for another boss post Hades
nova kite
ah i thought it said 1 boss AND 1 boss varient.
open berry
theres no gameplay past hades either
confirmed here https://steamcommunity.com/app/1145360/discussions/0/2568689796938951223/#c2568689796939013056
"Further, the story we have had planned and been working on since the start of this project does not involve additional battles and such past the current point. "
atomic forge
his voice isn't the one that makes my knees weak
rotund sedge
Yeah, would've been Dusa but she hits you with the Biz Markie
open tiger
that's horrifying
dense sparrow
reason to turn down than
lost gorge
It’s kind of a shame that EM4 is the last bit of gameplay most likely. The game is super fun, but once you get fast it feels odd to just breeze through ~20 minutes
atomic forge
Look, at least that's not the mirrored half image which is much worse.
open tiger
just constantly alt-tab, that way every run takes twice as long
dense sparrow
What is alt tab?
atomic forge
Pressing the Alt and Tab keys on your keyboard at the same time.
dense sparrow
No i meant what does it do?
atomic forge
Switches Window focus.
open tiger
it changes what window you're looking at
I use it to constantly switch between Hades and Disord
keen kindle
Why does Hades dislike Heracles so much? He even refused to assign him to standing in Zag's way and chose to go for the champion duo instead.
Perhaps dad knew he would just refuse though.
I want to meet the guy in-game now.
feral flower
Well, traditionally, Heracles is a bit of a violent loon.
fervent skiff
"A bit"
keen kindle
Does it get revealed at any point who Skelly actually is and/or who he serves and what his connection to Hermes is?
fervent skiff
Yes
If you want more lore about him just equip his keepsake and see if anyone reacts to it
Specifically ||Hermes||
keen kindle
I did, Hermes reacted to it but I didn't notice anyone else.
keen kindle
Alrighty. Will I need to get his trophy||ies|| for that?
drifting citrus
nope, it's not heat locked
keen kindle
Alright, I'll keep going then. I've completed his favor already and forged a bond but there hasn't been much new info since then, so I thought maybe I'm missing something.
gloomy crag
there's a dialog from skelly once you give him enough nectar that may or may not be skelly's real ID, but to advance things you wear his keepsake and talk to hermes to start that line, and also talk to everyone in the house
question - i got 50 clears. was something meant to happen?
vapid parcel
i don't think so? afaik there's nothing for fifty or a hundred clears, at least i don't think i got anything
fickle comet
Any particular cue for Skelly's favor besides just keep talking to him?
hushed pilot
You have to unlock most of the Aspects, IIRC, and then just keep talking. After that, kill him with max Zag sword.
upbeat willow
you don't have to unlock most aspects
if that were the case I still wouldn't have skelly's favour 
fickle comet
Hmm.
He won't give you the quest until you've unlocked 3 non-Zagreus aspects of weapons.
From the wiki. Alright then.
jade slate
man thanatos favour takes forever to get unlocked
apparently he doesnt show up unless you meet him on a run, but i also did orpheus sisyphus and now achilles' favour so he's gotta get through the dialogue for them too
so its like, double rng
fallen prairie
Here I am waiting on Sisyphus' thing to occur.
jade slate
honestly if you really really want to get the favour
dont give nectar or progress with anyone
just talk to sisyphus so that he only gets one dialogue option
but dont quote me on that
fallen prairie
Know that now, quite soon, I'm almost maxed out on everyone except the gods and some other NPCs.
brave stratus
Does Cerberus actually have a special event? That lock icon is taunting me but I think I've done just about everything so I'm at a loss
lost gorge
Pet him 20 times
brave stratus
... I must have pet him 20 times by now, so I'm guessing like, at once?
feral flower
Nope.
Just in general.
I didn't even know how it happened.
I just pet the good boy boy boy.
split kelp
The goodest boy took me the longest to figure out.
lean orbit
You probably need to exhaust dialogues as well
split kelp
Goodest boy doesn't really have that much dialogue.
dusty matrix
Goodest boy ponders why Zag doesn't spend more time with him
lean orbit
The answer is likely to the left from the goodest boy
dusty matrix
Although I've spoiled goodest boy with new bed and toys!
tranquil lichen
I can't seem to forge a bond with Athena, anything specific I need to do for that? Or just keep running in to her?
dusty matrix
might just be RNG tbh
open berry
Athena's requires full run clears
You're not guaranteed to get the necessary lines you need if you have other dialogue to cycle through so just keep clearing runs and grabbing her boons. She has 3 specific lines you need to see
feral flower
Theseus is kind of adorable.
He's so dramatic when Asterius disagrees with him in EM3.
placid delta
does hermes prophecy require you to beat charon twice in the same run?
feral flower
Different runs.
open tiger
No (you can't) but it might be twice in two runs in a row
open tiger
I've heard people saying they needed to get him two runs in a row to get it
I haven't fought him in a while since I've been doing some challenge runs
placid delta
ah that must be where I messed up
open tiger
I'm not certain of that, to be clear, just passing along what I've heard about it
placid delta
good to know how it happened for other people though'
drifting citrus
it is two runs in a row
frozen jolt
The prophecy completed for me after I beat him three times, and I’ve seen others say the same, so you might need to do that
lost gorge
A lot of the triggers for dialogue and prophecies are wonky, it seems that you need to meet the requirement, and do a little more that what is strictly required to get the game to realize you have completed the prophecy
open berry
i think thats been more the recent prophecies added this last patch for whatever reason
the previous ones didnt really have that issue
the ares prophecy was bugged for like almost 2 weeks
placid delta
do Erebus rooms "count" as a room in the total
like if you choose to do one thats one less normal room between you and the boss?
crimson temple
They count. They replace a regular room similar to chaos gates.
placid delta
good to know, thanks
crimson temple
Meaning unless you take one in the penultimate room before a boss, the room total stays the same.
placid delta
gave up a double boon room for money >_>
crimson temple
Did you get the not-onion at least?
dusty matrix
but 
best reward
wary agate
Wonder if we'll get a storm of achievements for our save files once 1.0 is out
atomic forge
Either we'll get a storm of achievement or they'll require a new file.
open berry
im sure they'll try to make many as retroactive as possible, like prophecies and such. others related more to runs themselves may not be
small kestrel
Please let me know if you have a better strategy for farming Chaos fish than this: If the first fishing point comes up before the first Chaos gate, restart. If the first Chaos chamber doesn’t have a fishing point, restart. (Actually, I’m not sure if I should restart or take a death; I can keep stuff if I die, but it looks bad on my permanent record.)
Given that I don’t really have anything else left to do at this point of the game, I don’t want to waste time. I could hope that I get a Skeletal Lure and Chaos gate in the same room, but this is not likely. I also could hope to get the legendary Poseidon boon and then spawn a Chaos gate, but this wouldn’t happen for a while.
That request was for anyone, btw.
rotund sedge
Gave my boy Than some spartan love after he hooked me up with all those hearts, then found out: ||Meg sets up 'cause she's a freak like that. Supergiant is wild||
clear oracle
o.O I don't know what y'all are referencing... I turned down Than so no idea there xD ah well, all Zag needs is Meg anyway
open berry
its really just a reference to how meg and than have known each other since before zag's existence, of course they're close and of course they, sharing some sort of relation with zag, would speak with one another in such a matter fox
its just zag going meg wont mind? and than replying nah whose idea do you think this was
rotund sedge
Well, if you're a true bro to Than a hook it up, ||Meg says that she knew about Than and encouraged it. ||
😮
willow zealot
Well then.
silk pike
How does one have the Friendly Wager prophecy foretold? Do I need to give Hermes or Charon more nectar than the obligatory 1st for the trinket to unlock the dialogue with Hermes?
open tiger
Have you fought Charon yet, and won?
silk pike
Yes several times, dont know if Ive done it back to back though
All I know is Hermes hasnt talked to me about his bet yet
willow zealot
Quick question, cause I havent figured out yet...how do I even trigger Charon for a fight anyways?
silk pike
There's a chance for a bag of obols to spawn in the mid shop
You borrow those and Charon goes ham on you
willow zealot
He's like 'NOT ON MY STORE!'
drifting citrus
you need to have beaten the final boss once as well
silk pike
Done that as well, are there other prerequisites? I always go to Hermes boons but he never brings up any new story dialogue
drifting citrus
nah, after that it's just a 22% chance for the bag to spawn in any mid-biome shop
open tiger
Onyx, they're asking about the quest
silk pike
Oh you were refering to the charon spawn Im dumb sorry
open tiger
I think it's just RNG to get the dialogue, like most prophecies, once you've beaten Charon at least once
small kestrel
I got the Friendly Wager dialogue after two loses to Charon, so victory seems not to be necessary.
lost gorge
I swear this game knows when I’m trying to get Bad News, and saves all my Hermes boons for non Stygian runs
ancient arch
Should I wait until Orpheus is there until I pay the fee for him to be reunited?
silk pike
You'll be able to tell Orpheus when he gets back, so no need to wait.
feral flower
Can I ever get an autograph from Asterius?
silk pike
You can, though I dont know what the prerequisites are
I remember getting it after enabling EM3, but I dont know if that's necessary or not
I got it at the boss fight proper, with Theseus being mad for not being asked
Worth noting that I had only given Hypnos one nector (for trinket), so you shouldnt need to increase his relationship with you
hushed pilot
I think you just have to die to Asterius in the mini-boss room a number of times, while talking to Hypnos after each death.
cloud jungle
bro did I just get rejected by a snake head
open tiger
yup
cloud jungle
🔨
feral flower
She's just not into that.
hushed pilot
It's strange to wait for a rejection but I need my Ambrosia back.
fleet grail
Today on Grand Theft Asterius
cloud jungle
spEEEED
hushed pilot
Is this legal?
fleet grail
I could TOTALLY imagine Asterius shouting that out whenever he charges.
Also, VIOLENCE
open berry
@feral flower requires dying to asterius at minimum 3 times, theseus at least 2, and an additional general death in the boss room. that's just for required lines and not taking into account dialogue rng
feral flower
I have no idea if I've done that.
fleet grail
If you've played this game long enough you will most likely, especially against these two
feral flower
I'm pretty sure Asterius has killed me enough times, certainly.
Theseus, maybe not.
open berry
I have a brief draft of it on pie's userpage on the wiki that I was working on, let me open browser
feral flower
Wish you could check.
fleet grail
That'd be a great addition to the Administrative Chamber: how many times you've died to a certain miniboss/boss
open berry
It's at the bottom https://hades.gamepedia.com/User:Mr_Pie_5/tabber_example
hushed pilot
That'd be a great addition to the Administrative Chamber: how many times you've died to a certain miniboss/boss
Hydra: too many.
open berry
that's simply the required dialogue needed to finish the sequence of events
once all of those have been collected, you'll have a chance to get the right dialogue from asterius in his solo encounter
silk pike
Oh its in his solo encounter? I couldve sworn I got the autograph at the Theseus fight
fickle comet
I recommend actually going up to meet him. If you just wait in the House of Hades . . .
open berry
it might? I'd have to double check but I'm currently getting ready to sleep. there is a line from theseus afterward but due to the lines my initial instinct is that the autograph comes from the solo encounter, bc theseus says he heard from asterius about it, which is a weird thing to say if they were in the same room
silk pike
Oh that might be what Im remembering
I was so thoroughly amused by Theseus that my memory of it all was predominantly him
open berry
He offers his autograph and zags like uh no thanks can we fight tho? and theseus gets offended
it's frankly one of my fav theseus dialogue
cyrus really nailed the mood with the spluttering
crimson temple
My favorite Theseus line would be: "You take him down with your axe while I drive circles around him!"
eternal breach
Mine is definitely also the autograph one. XD
SPSHAHSZSJDHDIT WAS DHSZDJKFFUF MERELY A JEST
topaz brook
So I have a question, and I'm not sure if this is the right channel for it.
How, exactly, do the chambers in the Temple of Styx work?
Is there a "correct" chamber each time?
Is it randomly determined each time you choose a chamber?
Is there any way to predict which chamber the sack might be in, or is it just complete RNG?
ashen latch
It’s RNG
ionic shard
never in 1st room
vestal quail
Bro what do you mean you can get an autograph from Asterius that's game changing
Man now I wish I'd died to him more times before
lost gorge
Since I started a new save, I haven’t died to the duo yet. Guess I’ll be spending a few hours getting all the right dialogue now. 😭
ashen latch
Asterius: Why do you just stand there? I know for a fact you can wipe the floor with me
Zagreus: Reasons. Now get to spinning and winning
eternal breach
teleporting numbskulls in erebus can go bassboosted noise
lean orbit
They actually go brrrr on zag's body
blazing heron
There are only 6 weapons, right? Have them all unlocked but can't see anything about Aspects - am I missing something?
drifting citrus
have you done a run since you unlocked the rail?
rocky goblet
i did NOT expect winter harvest ||to also work on bosses, aka hades,|| but that animation + voiceline, hoo boy that was the most movie-esque dramatic thing ive ever seen
blazing heron
@drifting citrus Nope, that I haven't done - I'll go that then, thanks!
blazing heron
That makes sense, I'll keep that in mind 😄
gloomy crag
Are certain fish at higher heat
ancient arch
How do you perfect catch?
open tiger
very good timing after the flash
dusty matrix
Like near instant timing
open tiger
I think it's about a 0.3ish second window?
ancient arch
I’m never pulling that off
open tiger
0.34 seconds, from the wiki
a trick for it, cover the bob with your finger, that way you're only relying on the flash of light, and not distracted by the bob randomly dipping
I've heard vibration works really well on controller
ancient arch
Good advice
open tiger
o7
gloomy crag
Wait the speed of the catch determines the fish?
lean orbit
Yeah
Perfect catch gives generally better fishes
open tiger
perfect catch (0-0.34) guarantees a rare and gives a 5% chance at legendary
a "fast" catch (0.34-0.68) has a 5% chance of rare, no legendary
a normal catch (0.68-1) will get you a common fish
after 1 second, no fish
supple dagger
Honestly, the only REAL reason I even try to get legendary fishes is for codex entries and running on the illusion that they net more gems. (I still don't know how the in-game Underworld currencies work. I guess the shopkeeper is the closest to knowing how the conversion goes, but even then, it doesn't say how much each fish is worth.)
open tiger
(they do get you more stuff)
supple dagger
Sucks I will never get the two Chaos fishes unlocked again. Not sure how my save managed to revert back, but yeah. All I remember was Jellyfish and Mati. But that's about it.
open tiger
yup
open tiger
a trick for it, cover the bob with your finger, that way you're only relying on the flash of light, and not distracted by the bob randomly dipping
open berry
controller gang rise up, theres two different vibrates for fake outs and catch so i just wait for the right vibration. i react to that faster than the light flash
drifting citrus
mkb players that never get perfect catches gang 😎
feral flower
I got two legendary fish! I'll probably never fill the fishing part of the codex, but at least it's enough to make best uncle happy.
open tiger
mkb players that still don't have the common chaos fish because they're too fast gang
runic reef
We're suffering from success Swan 
feral flower
I only have one chaos fish.
But also, worse than that. I missed one.
I went inside, and didn't hear the ding until I'd clicked on the next room.
It haunts me to this day.
open berry
@drifting citrus hands you a perfect catch hands you a perfect catch hands you a perfe
lean orbit
mkb players that still don't have the common chaos fish because they're too fast gang
so true that it hurts
open berry
covering the lure is a very legit strategy for fish and very helpful but i process the visual indicator more slowly than the physical one 😔 though i admit my trigger fingers get the better of me sometimes and i'll get ahead of myself and hit the button too soon anyway heh
lean orbit
I follow approx. timings too
If lure didn't pop almost immediately, then next one is going to be fake
3 fakes at max, too
open berry
yeah it never goes more than 4 times, thank god
fishing except zags been sitting in asphodel for five minutes already waiting for a fish to bite lmao
coarse kestrel
is there a way to force an encounter with eurydice or is pure randomness? like 4 runs and nothing 😦
open tiger
RNG, afaik
coarse kestrel
😦 trying to advance with all these orpheus and eurydice drama but the game is not making it easier xD
and when i get to charon i just keep playing till the end to farm diamonds or titan blood
neat slate
is there a way to manipulate or force a thanatos appearance in a run? i've dumped like 20 hours just into trying to unlock his heart but i don't get him to show up very often, and the few times i DO his dialogue is so backed up with other storyline things that i can't get the dialogue i need to progress with him
ashen summit
Hey, so I started playing again, finally. And I got the Bow upgrade. But I can't figure out how to get the words for the Shield and the Adamant Rail.
I have five blood in all of them already.
cloud ember
@ashen summit check pinned msgs. How to get all of them is given
crimson temple
As for the Thanatos encounters, there is no way to directly force them. Having lost health is a prerequisite, although the wiki doesn't state how much. From my experience, the odds are better than 1 in 2 to meet him during a run.
ashen summit
Oh, cool. Thanks.
true relic
is there a way to manipulate or force a thanatos appearance in a run? i've dumped like 20 hours just into trying to unlock his heart but i don't get him to show up very often, and the few times i DO his dialogue is so backed up with other storyline things that i can't get the dialogue i need to progress with him
@neat slate got his ||companion on || ||20's hell run|| so... it will take for awhile
neat slate
oooooof alright, time for that grind 😤
feral flower
You can get the Autograph from Asterius while EM3 is on, right?
That won't block it?
whole path
@feral flower - you get it in the miniboss encounter iirc so it shouldn't
open berry
em being on or not has no bearing
feral flower
Going to keep on hoping.
open berry
someone here mentioned they got it with em3 on and I've gotten it with it off
feral flower
It feels like I've exhausted Asterius's dialogue though, whenever I meet him in his miniboss fight.
Maybe I haven't died to them as much as I thought.
thorny surge
yeah, i got the autograph without EM3 too, can confirm
gotta wait till Hypnos mentions it and then go fight the miniboss asterius until the right dialogue pops up
feral flower
He did mention it, multiple times.
I just don't die to them anymore 😄
Does anyone else feel for Tisiphone?
She sounds so sad whenever you talk to her.
I hope they do more there.
crimson temple
I also think there are unanswered questions surrounding her.
I wouldn't describe her as sad, more like despairing - and then there's Alecto's bad attitude towards her.
open berry
alecto has a bad attitude to everyone, even meg, its not unique treatment to anyone in particular
crimson temple
Maybe.
One of the big questions I have is whether Tisiphone only uses "murderer" on Zagreus because that's the extent of how she communicates, or whether there actually is more to it.
Alecto states that Tisiphone normally "shuts up".
open berry
i wouldnt count on canon delving very deeply on that, personally.
because theres countless number of things that could stand to have further clarification but we're never gonna get it
write a fic
explore it
crimson temple
I've yet to see the full extent of the Zagreus expanding her vocabulary arc, so maybe something can be gleaned from that. If not, then that's that.
keen kindle
Approximately how many runs does it take to exhaust all the dialogue options in the game and complete the story and romace lines?
lean orbit
Well, zagreus ||does manage to teach her say "Zagreus", which she likes to mix with "murderer" at times,|| but ||"happy" for example failed miserably||
So ig her limit is reached with that
Approximately how many runs does it take to exhaust all the dialogue options in the game and complete the story and romace lines?
A few hundred? Granted you get tons of ambrosia along the way
keen kindle
This seems a bit excessive to be completely honest.
crimson temple
I'm close to two hundred and know that a few very specific things have yet to happen, and then there is always the unexpected.
lean orbit
Most dialogues will be exhausted by like 40 runs tbf
The rest is just explicit quests/romances/whatever
keen kindle
That's what I was asking about mostly, how long does it take to finish the quests.
Right now seeing the amount of stuff that can be bought from the contractor and its prices gives me cold feet. Feels like I will never finish the game in any meaningful capacity.
crimson temple
If you mean forging the bonds, then I think it can be done within 100 runs if you know exactly what you need to do. Still, dialogue progress is a bit random, so there can't be an accurate number.
What would you describe as a meaningful capacity?
dusty matrix
I sort of like the long-term investment, sorta fits a roguelite I can always pick-up
keen kindle
Furnishing the rooms to any substantial percent of the available additions and seeing the questlines to completion.
I sort of like the long-term investment, sorta fits a roguelite I can always pick-up
I agree but I personally would prefer if it didn't take 5-10 runs just to change the style of columns in the main hall
crimson temple
Then I'd say that I have recently reached that point. I am missing a few super expensive house items, but the house is esthetically pleasing without say the blingy columns. I have completed all story-related prophecies and only miss one possible bond. I logged 160 hours for that.
keen kindle
Grats then 👍
dusty matrix
Yeah, gem grind is pretty long term
keen kindle
Not sure if I will be able to do the same, but I'll make an attempt at least.
dusty matrix
Getting 5 gems per room and only ~50 from troves because I'm bad, takes awhile lol
Fishing helps though
crimson temple
Fishing helps, but apparently players have wildly varying success with that.
keen kindle
There also seems to be way fewer "practical" contractor works than I would have expected.
crimson temple
That's true. Most contractor upgrades are really for the looks and one or two voice lines.
dusty matrix
My bats are the best contractor upgrade
open berry
Approximately how many runs does it take to exhaust all the dialogue options in the game and complete the story and romace lines?
let's just say that the voiced dialogue takes up about 11gb of data and leave it at that, to give you an idea of just how much of it there is
much of the dialogue is chained together and requires seeing other bits so even if you are looking to get a specific piece of dialogue, cycling the dialogue you get to what you want still can take a bit
keen kindle
"okay you get a bit of bonus resources on your run, nice right? Well go grind all the consmetics with that and nothing else ever you can invest into to make your progress faster".
keen kindle
I believe it would make sense to tie resource gain rates to heat levels.
Kind of like it is done in Dead Cells
dusty matrix
I think darkness is is slightly tied to that
crimson temple
Some go on dedicated gem farming runs, but I didn't bother with that. I see decorations as a nice side effect of progress.
keen kindle
More risk = more reward
open berry
we've been suggesting increase on rewards for ages, at this point im not sure we'll see it happen. even just bumping up room rewards like every 5 heat or something would be more meaningful
your runs quickly get to a point where resource rooms just feel like a waste of time because the reward you get for it is so miniscule
keen kindle
dedicated gem farming runs
Oh hell no. That's like double grind - not only do you grind, you also don't get any satisfaction from core gameplay since it stops being your primary focus
your runs quickly get to a point where resource rooms just feel like a waste of time
Yeah, I'm there already
crimson temple
At my point in the game, the only reason why I would take a gemstone room is when I have something buffing obol gains. I get most of my gems from Styx fish.
dusty matrix
I can't resist gems for diamonds from broker either lol
keen kindle
Even with Chaos boons, gem gains are kinda laughable. Got through a useless gem room? Cool! Do 3 more and maybe you'll be able to afford new tile color or even a rug.
dusty matrix
Gotta work hard to play housedecorsim 
keen kindle
I understand the intention here. It is supposed to be a very slow additional background progression. But with how kinda front-and-center its results are and how expensive everything is, to me personally the whole thing starts to feel like a taunting annoyance.
dusty matrix
Charon's gem and key deals always hurt to see
whole path
@mmd the broker routinely has deals to trade down resources for gems, so if you remember to check him between each run, it can be helpful to generate more gems
keen kindle
Like, "looks at all this cool stuff we've got!"
"Cool indeed. Can I have it?"
"Not for the next few hundred game hours lmao"
dusty matrix
Eh, don't think it'll take a few hundred 
keen kindle
I check with him each time yeah. The problem is that there is a lot of stuff to buy with gems too.
split kelp
I've actually found myself taking that Charon gem deal occasionally, in particular if I've got a Chaos boost or two on and am not barely scraping along.
small kestrel
Ugh. Just need one more Projelly to complete my codex. I had the great idea of playing until I hit the first fishing point or chaos gate, but it seems that some RNG values stay fixed after a restart.
For example, I was able to get a setup where Poseidon was in the first room (I had the conch) and he always offered the same things. The second room always had a gold urn and a chaos gate, so I thought I could restart until a fishing point spawned in chaos. However, after thirty attempts, this did not happen. If the probabilities were indeed independent, there would be a 0.9^30 or about .042 probability of never getting the fishing point, so I'm pretty sure that the probability wasn't rerolled each time.
open tiger
You can cast before entering a room to change the seed
It still resets if you hit give up
But that's a thing you can do
Just hit the cast button at the same time as the door button
small kestrel
Ah, that's good to know. So just use cast after the fight and before you open the door?
Ah, got it.
open tiger
Just cast before entering the room with the chaos gate, I think
That will guarantee something different in the gate
small kestrel
OK, I hope it works. The interesting thing is that the chaos area WAS different every time. I would get different dialogue, different boons, different layout, maybe a gold urn, but never a fishing point. So I hope this works.
dusty matrix
fishing points are rough, I half hope charon well has the fishing lure before I enter
small kestrel
@dusty matrix Yeah, but that only happened to me once in ~120 runs. 😦
dusty matrix
I think one of the mirror lets you reroll those xD, but yeah I rarely see em 😦
open tiger
Yeah, Fated Persuasion to reroll for Skeletal Lure is legit
But also just getting a Gate and a Well in the same room
Is hard
small kestrel
Yup. I was actually going with Fated Authority in the hope that I might be able to get Poseidon boons to get Huge Catch, but that takes forever. Maybe the better call is roll with Persuasion. If nothing else, I can score more Light of Ixion to simply spawn more chaos gates.
Or maybe get both the Lure and the Light.
dusty matrix
Lure and light = $$$
open tiger
Not quite
dusty matrix
Oh gotta time that
open tiger
The fish will be in the next room, as will the gate
small kestrel
Yeah, that's right.
open tiger
However!
dusty matrix
Lemme buy double fish lure
open tiger
There are some rooms that can't have fish
lean orbit
Fated persuasion is probably still better for legendary since you can reroll poseidon boons once you are able to get legendary
open tiger
So it would work if you roll into one of those with an Ixion and a Lure
There're a few rooms in Tartarus that just don't have water
I wouldn't rely on those though, especially if you're manipulating the RNG by casting
small kestrel
I think my first attempts will involved replaying an early chaos area and trying to manipulate the RNG. If that doesn't work, I may try for the Well.
By the way, how tight is the timing on the cast to change the seed?
dusty matrix
I thought you just cast before you enter, like after room clear, I'm not sure though
open tiger
Don't know, I just know that it works if you do it at basically the same time
The cast slightly earlier
small kestrel
Alright. Thanks for the help, everyone!
small kestrel
OK, Wells and Fated Persuasion were the way to go. I tried to get a good seed that had Wells and Gates in about the right place. If not, I would take a death, as giving up didn't give another seed. I didn't play past Tartarus on any attempts.
There actually seem to be a LOT of rooms in Tartarus that don't have water, so getting a Lure and an Ixion at the same time worked. (In one attempt, I was able to get three Lures, but I never got the gate at the right time.)
dusty matrix
Nice, good to hear it worked out!
limpid zinc
Hey how much blood does it take to unlock the future aspects for the rail, the bow, and the shield?
storm spear
according to wiki it seems to be 3 titan blood per level for the fourth aspects. Total of 15 per fourth aspect.
limpid zinc
Neat thanks
I was wondering if anyone knew how much you had to put into other aspects to be able to buy it in the first place
storm spear
u just need to unlock atleast level 1 of the other non fourth aspects. So it would be about 4 titan blood in total to unlock the other aspects.
limpid zinc
Thank u very cool
upbeat willow
that's not true Duck; check the pins here on how to unlock the fourth aspects @limpid zinc
storm spear
Oh i was just answering how much titan blood was needed
but yeah read the pin
wait i was wrong
upbeat willow
ahh I read wrong
storm spear
yeah disregard my message
upbeat willow
it's 1, 1, 2 to unlock the first 3 aspects
upbeat willow
yeah so for 4th aspects it's have GY unlocked and have 5 blood invested in the weapon then pray dialogue RNG is kind for the person who gives the unlock phrase
storm spear
Yeah my bad i thought u needed to unlock the other 3 aspects for say Sword before u can get the fourth one. Turns out u only need to unlock the spear aspects and 5 titan blood in any sword aspect to get arthur.
upbeat willow
GY is unlock at least 5 aspects (doesn't matter what weapon) and fight Hades once
split kelp
Btw, you don't need to invest any blood into GY to be eligible for the other aspects. Just having the option to unlock it (that is after the dialogue with Achilles and the Aspect showing up in the list) qualifies.
dusty ingot
How do I get Than's companion toy? I've gifted him to the limit and win most of encounters with him, but nothing happens
The same with Bouldy, btw. I've fed him so much nectar
fallen prairie
Just wait for the dialogue to trigger in case of Than, you'll get the opportunity to gift him Ambrosia, that's when you get the keepsake.
For Sisy/Bouldy, it's a long route apparently.
dusty ingot
I don't even know if I have to give Bouldy nectars for the keepsake or it is just for his buff. He's not in the codex iirc
storm spear
You need to buy a particular contract from the house contractor for bouldy's quest
Sisyphus' favor involves lightening his sentence.
This involves speaking to Sisyphus, Megaera and Hades about lightening Sisyphus's sentence. After doing so, the Knave-King's Sentence can be purchased from the House Contractor (for 7 Diamond).
After this is done, Sisyphus may be given Ambrosia the next time he is encountered in Tartarus.
Completing Sisyphus' favor also completes the End to Torment prophecy in the Fated List of Minor Prophecies.
After completing his favor, giving Sisyphus Ambrosia will give you Companion Shady in exchange.
ripped straight from the wiki
but thats basically how you get the bouldy companion
dusty ingot
Thanks. Wait for the dialogue lines then, I guess
open berry
a lot of the game's progression ultimately boils down to waiting for the right dialogue to pop up
oak haven
Hello. How i am supposed to unlock companion Shady? Heart with a lock in codex, no more dialogues after ~15 meets, should i be friendly with someone else?
can't give him nectar neither ambrosia
fallen prairie
Ejik, that has just been answered above.
oak haven
yes, but i can't get quest from Sisyphus
thorny surge
Then keep talking to him
oak haven
i watched all scenes with Sisyphus, with Tanatos/Magaera, etc no more scenes or dialogues after 15 more meets with him
thorny surge
And/or other NPCs
Did you talk to Nyx and Hades
Rule #1 of the game is always talk to everyone
everyone
oak haven
no new dialogues
upbeat willow
then talk to them some more
fallen prairie
And keep talking with everyone.
oak haven
more than 70 runs at the moment
upbeat willow
do runs, talk to people
thorny surge
It might take a run or two but you’ll eventually get the right dialogues.
Don’t be impatient
upbeat willow
rng dialogue can be a butt sometimes
oak haven
i mean really no new dialogues with anyone
fallen prairie
Some people have had more poor luck, Just keep at it.
oak haven
thanks
crimson temple
Do you have the Administrative Chamber? It's an important prerequisite for many questlines.
oak haven
yes, i have
crimson temple
Then interact with the objects inside. Also, sometimes characters react to you leaving the chamber. I don't know if that's a part of the Sisyphus quest, but it doesn't hurt to check if new ! pop up after you take a look at the records.
final stream
Hey (sorry if it has been answered) but what exactly does the 8888 darkness thing unlock? Got it yesterday and still have no idea😂 😂
ivory spire
Nyx will talk about it, then after that you can find her in Chaos and both her and Chaos' final hearts will unlock
atomic forge
doesn't it say so? it allows nyx to visit chaos
lost gorge
It’s just for the quest, the sigil doesn’t actually do anything for zag
lost gorge
Fricking autocorrect changing sigil to digit
keen kindle
Has there been any mention from the devs of what the 4th aspect of the Fists is going to be?
fickle comet
No.
Only that they already have something planned, but it's probably not set in stone until release.
keen kindle
Gotcha, thanks.
fickle comet
And you can tell from the other hidden aspects that they're all tied to great epics or legends that aren't Greek.
keen kindle
Yeah, that's kinda hard to miss hah.
fickle comet
Which means the hidden Malphon aspect is probably gonna be the Aspect of Nyaanyaa.
I am epic, legendary, and not Greek.
I'm also known for using Malphon.
And from Zagreus's perspective in the game, I'm from the future.
So, I'm like the obvious choice.
open berry
you're not a deity :v we have three aspects from non-deities and two from deities. chop chop become a god or bust
fickle comet
What do you mean I'm not? 
dense sparrow
which pantheon doe?
bold niche
if there is none, we can make one
open tiger
...do you see her name???
open tiger
XD
celest vale
So Meg just was in Zagreus room, talking about how she was just nearby, and while this seems like I did something right and found another hidden thibg Zagreus commented "looks like we can now go back to just killing each other", which rather sounds like I did something wrong
blazing heron
Does having more "hearts" with the gods and other characters impact anything? Or is it just for story stuff?
open berry
@celest vale nah tbh zag and meg get to a point their killing of one another is rather amicable once meg's affinity is high. shes under orders by hades to stop zag so she has to fight him no matter what. but it becomes less bitter between them over time
@blazing heron story.
there are 6 characters that will give you something special at high affinity and you generally have to go through a request of some sort but other than that its just all more narrative content.
blazing heron
Aight - thanks for the answer!
eternal breach
What does it take to become a god
If i make an altar for nya will that count for something
So i can ask for sick malphon plays
fickle comet
Please do that. 👸🏽
outer cloud
at this point, I'm not allowed to give Sisyphus anymore Nectar, I've built the Administrative room and I've given Bouldy Nectar more than once and the dialogues for Sisyphus, Hades and Meg are not progressing at all
any idea what I might be doing wrong?
outer cloud
I've only given her one Nectar to get her accessory
does gifting Nyx affect the Bouldy companion quest somehow?
ancient arch
Nyx best goddess
She would never try to get revenge because you didn’t pick her boon first
open berry
shes a primordial god, on some levels she holds more power than the olympians. in myth even zeus had a healthy sense of fear and respect for her
also re: sisyphus quest you are required to gift nyx at minimum like. i think basically max her out until the lock iirc
late palm
Are there any interactions with Bouldy possible - I heard you can get gifts from him?
open berry
talk to him
bold niche
at some point Sisyphus will mention the fact that he talks to Bouldy sometimes, and he understands everything
soon after that you will be able to try to talk to him as well
supple dagger
Is anyone else curious what Thanatos' sword would look like? Because I'm about to make amateur art of him holding it out... assuming I can get him and his face fairly okay. :3
bold niche
pretty sure it's somewhat close in style to his scythe
late palm
for bouldy shout i be gifting ambrosia or is that not necessary
storm spear
giving bouldy nectar doesnt do anything in terms of advancing the quest (atleast to my knowledge and wiki) or relationship it just gives you a small buff for the run.
late palm
great thanks
fallow nova
question regarding story: Will the story effectively complete once you finish a run once? Or will you be required to win several runs to unlock the "true" ending?
this is for 1.0 release
bold niche
highly unlikely that one run will be enough
fallow nova
also, will we ever find out who the Narrator is? Zagreus can apparently hear him, so it must be a character within the universe
bold niche
i believe, it was said once, that his true identity is already in the game, but hidden very deep
fallow nova
Deadalus, maybe?
bold niche
maybe, we will know after certain amount of scratching that portrait of an old man for 800 gems.. i'm trying to find out actually.. once after each run
well, we even already know ||who hired Skelly at this point..|| don't think it will be impossible in this case as well
bold niche
name! we need the name!!
fallow nova
Is the Narrator the one killing Zagreus at the end of each run? The phrasing sort of suggest it? Or rather, he kills Zag, and then gives the player some paper-thin excuse for why you are back in the House.
"Zagreus......stumbled upon a pit of deadly spears, perhaps?" is probably my favorite
bold niche
as the narrator he can do both at the same time
rewrite the story, like the Fates
would be interesting, if in order to get true ending you will need to buy the 800 gems bust first..
in 1.0 i mean
open berry
doubtful
thats kinda reading too deeply into it
i dont think the narrators role in things is anything beyond that, narrating bits of the story to the player
supple dagger
Honestly, I was thinking, since you get a bust of a poet and he actively repeats "the vastly irritating Prince gets no response," it was Homer or someone like Homer.
open berry
SLAMS MY HANDS DOWN i have been spending a lot of time with the contractor lists the past day while im organizing some stuff and i just realized that "mystery girl" portrait is ariadne
esp since the tooltip says its the portrait of a cretan princess, which ariadne was, and theseus and asterius are in the game ofc and mention her multiple times SO. (and her sister phaedra wouldn't make sense within the context of the game's narrative since she's never referred to at all)
thats what i think. its ariadne https://gyazo.com/02cde4688024f58a2489ed7d1fe3ed4e
unkempt sapphire
incheresting
fallen prairie
Anyone knows the significance of ||the time shown on the clock, 7:48?||
fickle comet
A sundial can't show you the time when there's no sun or moon.
split kelp
It's also a running gag in the game that no one can tell what time it is. "Good day... or night..." is something they frequently say.
fickle comet
748 is the number of escape attempts it took Greg to get his first clear.
That's probably it.
gloomy crag
also, will we ever find out who the Narrator is? Zagreus can apparently hear him, so it must be a character within the universe
@fallow nova Zagreus refers to him as "old man". The renovation refers to a statue of the old man as a poet, who I'm willing to bet are the same person. Or maybe we'll never see them at all. My actual pet theory is it's not someone like Virgil or Dante, but rather one of the surviving titans (i don't think all of them were wiped out), which is in keeping with the game being a family affair of sorts
brittle cobalt
If it is a titan it might be chronos. He is sealed in the tartarus, zagreus grandfather, ruler of time and might be able to talk to Zagreus alone.
Someone else said it might be Daedalus, but im only on this server for a short time and dont know all the guesses.
Could also be someone like Homer. At least the poet part and old man would fit.
coarse raptor
so for companions, I feel I should aim for Dusa first, then Sisyphus, cuz Dusa gives back the Ambrosia and Sisyphus gives a rad companion?
open tiger
That seems reasonable
coarse raptor
am I missing any obvious ones?
coarse raptor
Imeant just for the cleanest progression 😛 I think I'd use Sisyphus the most, healing and gold is rad
open tiger
Ye
coarse raptor
losing runs once you've beaten it once feels bad 😢
at 1 heat**
also, is there any way to maximize the chance that Dusa is... around? she's often missing
open tiger
Not that I know of
And yeah, I know whatchu mean. Just remember that every run is gonna be super different
split kelp
I've just let Dusa keep the Ambrosia, she was pretty happy with that.
feral flower
I took it back, because she seemed determined that she wanted to do it all on her own.
And foisting expensive gifts on people is wrong.
split kelp
I had more than enough of the stuff, so she can use it to stock the shelf in the lounge and maybe keep a few bottles for herself.
crimson temple
I didn't understand why Ambrosia would be stocked in the lounge when it is clearly regarded as contraband by other characters.
split kelp
At that point literally everyone save dad and the shades has been handed some of the stuff, so they can get off their high horse.
lost gorge
I have never used a companion bcuz I can never remember that they exist in this game lol.
feral flower
Dad gets no Ambrosia because he's a huge ass.
dense sparrow
he's not an ass, he's a god, do you see 2 oversized ears?
open tiger
I mean... There's probably a god of asses?
feral flower
Probably hiding them.
royal sierra
So do we know why Zagreus has red blood, or are there any theories as to why?
open tiger
We think it's because of his mother
crimson temple
Who in turn might gotten that from her mortal father.
open tiger
Yup
royal sierra
Then who would his mother be if not Persephone?
open tiger
That's correct
royal sierra
But Persephone's father is Zeus, isn't it?
open tiger
o7
feral flower
You'll get told these things in dialogues.
dusty ingot
Someone must've mentioned it already, but the more I play, the more I feel like Hades is kind of a subtle mentor to Zag. I think he's training Zag to prepare him for the surface or just to make him strong. He occasionally says something like 'observe' or 'let's see what Achilles taught you'. And sometimes even kinda shows that he's proud of Zag. Just wonder if anyone else saw that. Or maybe it's shown more clearly further in the story
split kelp
He is also very obviously telling Zag that he himself tried to escape and it didn't work. If he was just less of a complete douche canoe then Zag might even listen to him.
mystic mortar
He is absolutely proud of you
and zag does listen, he's just ramming his head against the wall until 1.0
dusty ingot
@split kelp well he never specified why he couldn't escape
mystic mortar
I'm not sure how Zag knows about the full release, but he does reference it a couple of times
split kelp
He never said why, just that it didn't work. Which is exactly the point, if Hades were just to, you know, actually tell him what's going on instead of demeaning him every waking second a lot of the game's plot could've maybe been avoided.
dusty ingot
Cause he's too tough to show his real feelings
small ingot
Is there a way to force the Charon battle to appear? Or is it random? Does it only appear in Tartarus?
dusty ingot
You need to steal his money bag. It sometimes appears behind him in middle shops in any biom
small ingot
Yes I was just wondering what the rules are on when the money bag appears
dusty ingot
Ah. Well, not only Tartarus I think
open berry
rng, as most things. theres a small chance for him to show up
the bag rather
but yes you can fight him in tart, aspho and elysium
open tiger
You can find the bag (about 20% chance) in each of the three mid-region shops
@small ingot
ivory spire
You cannot fight him at the shop at the end of the biomes though
open tiger
Correct
feral flower
Does anyone know how to get the Bloodless song in the music box unlocked? It's not available to buy for me, and it's my last one.
open tiger
it seems to be a bug, report it with f10
feral flower
It is?
open tiger
apparently
feral flower
Oh, huh.
open tiger
since I'm assuming you've fought the barge of death
feral flower
I have indeed managed to run into the barge of death.
feral flower
Dang.
open tiger
thanks tatz
feral flower
Ok, F10'd.
Also.
Unrelated, but adorable.
Cerberus is the featured house servant.
I didn't know that could happen, but I love it.
open tiger
:D
open berry
they've expanded the featured employees in the update, there are new ones to find
though the cutest one to me is also one of the more tedious ones to get to hh
open berry
no, but some dont unlock until after specific quests
feral flower
Which is the cutest one to you?
ancient arch
Orpheus cute
open berry
i laughed the first time i saw orpheus because it caught me off guard, the one i like most ||is hypnos, the art style truly suits his portrait||
coarse raptor
for Dusa's Favor, when they say "12 lounge focused" does that mean specifically the Lounge tab?
coarse raptor
Oh. There are only like 7 things there? Does it grow as you do more?
open tiger
You might need to || upgrade the contractor's desk ||
coarse raptor
You spoiler things even here? So polite!
open tiger
Hahaha, yeah ^.^ There are a lot of people who pop into this channel before they've unlocked everything (such as myself when I first started) and it was really nice when people tagged things for me
open tiger
I mean, that one was in response to your question, so you might as well click on it. The short answer is yes, you will get more options
I was referring to a specific one
ancient arch
Tbh options unlock over time and I have no idea why
slate blade
I really love the feature with the best employee of the time xD Cerby’s photo is sooo adorable there, aside from showing that the bond between Zag and Cerby is important
And because I’m a pet lover and Cerby is freaking awesome, whenever I die, he gets a lot of pats
because I die a lot
raven ether
I really wish that I could befriend Asterius! He looks so damn cute in his armor! I love how he looks!
I really was wishing he got in a bigger argument with his partner ^^'
open berry
there's enough communication issues in the game why do you want more lol
the level of 'this wouldn't happen if you people would actually talk' that the game has already is frustrating enough
dense sparrow
actually the uncommunicativeness (does this word exist) of the cast is logical
unkempt sapphire
hades kept the identity of zagreus's mother a secret for a reason. consequence of it was a lot of non-communication
ah I didn't read the full convo my bad
gilded agate
how do i get Orpheus back with Eurydice?
lean orbit
Keep talking with both and make sure you have maximum relationship with them. The game will eventually tell you the further steps
gilded agate
i have but they just have normal conversations now
lean orbit
Hmm. Have you unlocked ||administrative|| chamber yet?
gilded agate
yes
i have everything unlocked in the game
neither of them say anything special. like i got the prophecy and nothing has happened with either of them
lean orbit
Let's see. Did you talk with nyx when zagreus asks how to release those?
Or did that dialogue not appear at all yet?
feral flower
Dialogue RNG will dialogue rng eventually.
gilded agate
not sure. If Nyx is there she never has special dialogue. Like i am on the Achilles/Patro quest and pretty sure Zag said he will talk to Nyx and see what can be done yet that was like 7+ runs ago and she has nothing to say
lean orbit
Ah well, rng dialogue at its' best
I can only recommend looking in admin chamber just in case there are interactive points already
gilded agate
the only 2 i see are the run records
lean orbit
If not, just have to keep playing 
lunar kiln
dumb question but did you check if the contractor had orpheus' sentence
frozen jolt
Did you give nyx nectar? I’m pretty sure that’s a requirement
lunar kiln
i'd assume they did
cloud geode
Idk you but i have this headcanon that companions aren't just magic plushies that Zag carries around, but magic plushies that follow Zag around flying behind him like a familiar (or pokemons in the games where they follow you around)
They don't speak or squeak, just,, follow him around like a pixie. They dodge attacks independantly and turn into their respective friend when "summoned"
Because how would Zag carry them around? They're bigger than a keepsake and i know it's not lore relevant it's just that plushies are cute and they just show up on the side bar to let you know you have them equipped but... yeh
feral flower
They do make squeaky noises during hard fights.
And they're implied to be sentient in some respect.
cloud geode
Oh really? I haven't unlocked them yet so- WAIT
they actually make squeaky noises sorry what?!
Also i don't know if it was understandable from my comment but yeah i also thought about them being a bit sentient, they follow Zag around, they just don't talk
But apparently they also squeak and that's adorable so they're more sentient than i thought. I'm trying to find something similar to compare them to...
feral flower
Yeah, when you get into a hard fight, they make a little squeaky noise unique to that cthonic companion and a little reminder pops up on how to use companions.
cloud geode
Or maybe they are literally like pokemons?
are they alive? Do they feel emotions? Are they like less emotional-driven but also less instinct-driven pets?
feral flower
The fables section implies they have emotions and feelings.
It's unclear how real that is.
cloud geode
...
Alright then i'm stupid
Like i said i haven't unlocked them yet so i'll just wait and then make my conclusions
But also that's even more adorable
They're like those mascots that follow majokko girls around
Maybe they're like Kuribo from Yu-gi-oh: not too complex they literally exist just to be a mascot but still... they are alive like a human
crimson temple
Back to back runs.
lunar kiln
you cant fight charon twice in one run
lost jungle
ah ok and he spawns only on runs were i cna get bounties ?
crimson temple
No such restriction is known.
The bag will spawn with around 20-25% odds in mid-biome shops, meaning you have three chances to run into it.
lunar kiln
it doesnt have to be back to back runs you just need to beat him twice without losing
crimson temple
Well, something about this prophecy seems to be borked. Many reported that they had to beat him thrice.
With the many hotfixes over the past days, it's hard to say whether that is still the case.
coarse raptor
is there an easy way to make getting a legendary boon more likely? (Athena's specifically)
lunar kiln
learn the prerequisites and play with god's legacy
crimson temple
Yes, there is a mirror talent for that. +10% legendary and duo boon odds.
You need Brilliant Riposte for Athena's Legendary, and to get the former, at least one boon with Deflect.
coarse raptor
ahh, yeah so basicallyuse her keepsakes and the mirror talent, woo
is that mirror talent a good long term investment? haven't hit 30 keys yet
coarse raptor
it's also somewhat cheaper than the other option
feral flower
I prefer getting more epics.
coarse raptor
woo, diamonds? haha
bold niche
somehow prophecies of clearing a run with a certain weapon are not easier than getting a legendary boon
bold niche
every fourth of them
and you don't even have to win Redadcted, but still.. somehow i manage to die stupidly in Styx or earlier
coarse raptor
yeah they seem pretty hard to do when not maxed, that gives ambrosia which can be converted to titan's blood?
dusty matrix
If I remember correctly you get Ambrosia yeah
lost jungle
how do you open the lock on zerberus ?
dusty matrix
lost jungle
👍
coarse raptor
how do you unlock the Chaos prophecies?
drifting citrus
i imagine just keep talking to them, gifting them nectar, progressing through the game
open tiger
which prophecies specifically?
coarse raptor
the "get all the boons"
I guess I should just be throwing Nectar at everything now?
open tiger
I mean, that's not a bad idea
though I'll note that nectar doesn't affect boon rarity
drifting citrus
nectar is pretty much the only way to progress side stories early-game, so i imagine so
open tiger
first time on 40 heat and this is what Meg says
|| https://imgur.com/sMvN36M || this is amazing
bold niche
Zag loves pain
coarse raptor
haha, nice
open berry
aw man other characters remarking on heat level is a neat touch, though its probably just meg huh
winged glen
I just heard Oprheus sing for the first time
Supergiant you mad lads just made me cry again
river citrus
I hit the locked heart on artemis what triggers that heart to unlock so i can give her more dating sim points?
silk pike
Keep talking to her to get all her lines needed to unlock it. Prolly will involve dialogue rng, but atleast its straightforward.
crimson temple
You will know you get closer when she starts talking about her hunting partner.
open berry
@river citrus if you're looking to romance her, none of the gods are romanceable fyi
feel like that should be pointed out due to the dating sim comment
feral flower
But if you could, Artemis would probably end up as a platonic hunting buddies forever situation.
Which would be cool.
fallen prairie
Do I have to meet Nyx in ||Chaos' realm|| for it to finally count for the prophecy?
feral flower
I think so?
fallen prairie
And with that, I think I've finally done all story related quests. Now I'll have to focus on the resource farming.
open berry
@feral flower Nine times out of ten people who ask these things about artemis are wanting to romance her, it's happened even on official sg tweets. so hence why I feel the clarification needs to be made
coarse raptor
Woah. Charon seems HARD
open tiger
Yup
coarse raptor
That was unexpected!
Oar slaps hit for like... 50?
Do you get any important rewards for killing him? Prophecies?
open tiger
Cool stuff
dusty matrix
Something to help out the current run and yeah prophecy you'll learn about after beating
open tiger
You'll see when you beat him :3 (if you want it spoiled we can tell you)
dusty matrix
But yeah, oar is strongest weapon ingame change my mind
atomic forge
Theseus's bombs.
placid hill
Can we replace the Eternal Spear with Charon's Oar? I'd pay for that
coarse raptor
The oar is rooooough, man!
And crazy reach
And then there’s nothing to hide behind haha
dusty matrix
I usually dash towards him and hope for the best
coarse raptor
Yeah, what’s the secret! Ruin it for me. I know about the ||membership card, how does it work? 20% off ALL purchases?||
I generally avoid his shop cuz I can just spend all my money at the end anyway
open tiger
Yes, but || just for that run ||
coarse raptor
Thought so, thanks
frozen jolt
you get the prophecy regardless of if you beat him or not though
you just need to beat him to complete it
normal echo
So I have seen Oophorous in like 20 runs, any idea where he's gone? Need him for the lute quest
frozen jolt
might just be RNG
normal echo
Thought it might be
open tiger
Yeah, seeing Orpheus is a buncha RNG
coarse raptor
hmm... is Charon easier the earlier he shows up in a run?
feral flower
I haven't noticed any changes.
coarse raptor
not even numberswise? oof, he beat me in Elysium, I assume he'd obltierate me in Tartarus then
open tiger
I don't think so
analog jungle
yeah, the only times I've been able to borrow the purse were in tartarus...
open tiger
he definitely can appear in every region
autumn void
charon is the same combat-wise regardless of which biome you face him in
lunar kiln
he'll be harder to face in tartarus than in elysium bc you wont have as many boons
but he always has the same stats
autumn void
i'd say he isn't strictly easier in elysium
atomic forge
Let's all be thankful he doesn't start in Tartarus and then scale from there.
lunar kiln
well you'll definitely have more firepower in elysium than in tartarus and it helps
you wont have to endure his attacks as much
atomic forge
He is easier in Elysium, your build will almost always be stronger, but given how nasty Elysium itself is I can see why you'd be reluctant to face him there.
autumn void
yeah, in terms of raw power most will probably have an easier time yeah. there are some edge cases where you might have low DDs if you're running that, and the fight becomes more of a risk
atomic forge
I think Asphodel is generally the sweet spot.
autumn void
and TD2 can complicate the decision to fight at all
lunar kiln
yeah true
atomic forge
Stubborn Defiance against Charon. 
cyan rune
lunar kiln
no you werent ❤️
split kelp
Yeah, I was celebrating at that point the first time too.
coarse raptor
Lucifer's weapon is fun?
yup, I went through that myself
dark thirst keeps giving me the gun, I'm bored of it 😢
split kelp
Lucy aspect is very strong and for most standard builds one rank is enough.
Upgrading only improves the special, if you aren't actively using it Lucy is good out of the box.
Also try Hestia, that one is really fun.
coarse raptor
I hear you need to cap Hestia for it to be really valuable? That’s the manual reload one?
atomic forge
It's most effective at cap, but you are almost certainly getting through low Heat with levels 3 or 4.
coarse raptor
I need to spend 5 blood to unlock Lucifer anyway, so I might stick 4 in there
coarse raptor
Hestia takes too much brain space for me. I got heat 3 with it but I didn’t like it as much haha
Tbh I hate the reload in the game, it feels super unnatural
dusty matrix
I got used to it once I thought of it as a bolt-action rifle instead of an automatic rifle lol
coarse raptor
It’s more of just where the button is haha
lost gorge
Yeah it kinda stinks having to move a finger off of movement keys to reload, especially when your reloading constantly with hestia
drifting citrus
you could rebind reload
coarse raptor
but to what? (PS4 controller0
feral flower
The duo dialogues are so fun.
iron sable
so im curious... has anyone tried asking SGG for atleast a hint about what the new fist aspect will be? if not... psssst people at super giant you should give us a hint on the new aspect 😛
upbeat willow
they typically keep that kind of stuff close to their chest
we'll find out for sure what the aspect is when v1.0 drops 😉
dense sparrow
"The portrait of Lord Dionysius grace the wall of the Prince's chamber, radiating questionable influence" This made me laugh, somehow
iron sable
@upbeat willow im sure they do but theres no harm in asking xD
cause ya never know unless you do haha
open berry
they probably havent settled on it yet, realistically. greg only just tweeted out a few days back about finishing writing the remainder of the game's story voiceover
iron sable
i mean your probably right
lost jungle
@open berry well then they do have settled since it probably also has voiceover
open berry
listen i am only basing off greg's tweet https://twitter.com/kasavin/status/1286911108901556230
Twitter
he says story voiceover, so im thinking, yknow, story specific content, not general narration
all this really says for sure is that the game still has a lot of work to be done before 1.0 is ready, so for all we know fists are either still wip or theyve settled on a foundation of what they want to do with it. we dont know
at the end of the day i just hope its fun lol
drifting citrus
4th aspect fists should be some kind of law person, like a judge or something
call em cease and defists
iron sable
ngl i would fully support them doing that aswell xD
fair light
Tatz, for what it's worth, we've known the hidden Fist aspect for quite a while, at least thematically. We're well past deciding on core ideas like that. The writing I finished up (referenced in the tweet) is highly specific / situational stuff, or is about new content we will be adding.
Just because the writing/concept for the hidden Fist aspect is set doesn't mean the sum total development of it is complete, and that is ongoing. We're actively at work on many aspects of our launch update. We hope you enjoy it once it's all ready to go sometime later this year!
iron sable
so does that mean you would be willing to give us a hint? 😉
since you have just confirmed that you have an idea 😛
fair light
You have all the hints you're gonna get! 🧐
fickle comet
It will be the Aspect of Nyaanyaa. 👸🏽
iron sable
nah my vote is the aspect of gilgamesh not that i think he used fists xD
placid hill
I could see the fist 4th aspect being something like Fist of Buddha, that'd be cool
crimson temple
There are warrior monks, maybe that’s where the idea comes from.
Buddha is known for an inescapable grasp, that is a notable argument. Still, I think the odds are low to have another Asian aspect.
placid hill
Yeah, basically I was thinking Shaolink monk. And also, I don't think it was Lucifer's thing to zap people with a laser rifle but it's still on the game :p
atomic forge
We don't know.
feral flower
You don't know his life.
cloud ember
my vote for the 4th fist aspect is jotaro kujo .
but realistically william fairbairn
lost jungle
He was a martial artist
dense sparrow
nah my vote is the aspect of gilgamesh not that i think he used fists xD
@iron sable he actually used fists to beat the cow of heaven if i remember correctly
iron sable
oh did he actually? @dense sparrow i didnt realize that. in that case yea i stand by aspect of gilgamesh 😛
royal token
i just unlicked every 4'th aspect
and was wondering...wil malphon's fists 4'th aspect be smth like "mike tyson"
?
upbeat willow
we won't know till the 1.0 update drops
iron sable
i dont think it will be something like mike tyson
if it is something along those lines, it would be a fighting monk or something as some have suggested, purely because mike tyson does not fit the theme of the game xD
jade slate
fists of st martha
ancient arch
If a hidden weapon aspect is a core idea, then what non-core thing did they just finish writing 🤔
slender matrix
They must have completed the story of the sealife in the underworld
feral flower
Well the tweet said it's the remaining story voice over for Hades. Which could mean either specifically Dad, or just the remaining story related voice overs for the game.
Probably various bits of shockingly varied dialogue.
Congratulations Shinji Zagreus type stuff.
thorny surge
can't wait for cerberus to clap at me at the ending
lean orbit
The remaining story voice over could be just old man getting more mocking lines about zagreus dying from unexplainable causes
feral flower
I've been collecting screenshots of those, in case they go away once there is an ending.
There are some quality ones.
dusty matrix
Same, some amusing ones... still missing a bunch
lean orbit
Dang, I should have collected those too