In the article that you linked? I will definitely read this
#h1-story-discussion
woeful schooner
open berry
The easiest way to look at it is that the bosses are all unique characters, and the mini bosses largely are not
the mini bosses are generally just modified versions of regular enemies you face
also worth noting asterius is counted as a boss while tiny vermin is not because defeating him in his solo encounter affects his health in the duo fight with theseus
woeful schooner
!!!! Really? I've never actually paid attention to that I just go into the actual fight guns blazing so to speak
open berry
yeah he will start that fight with a little bit less health, check his health bar next time
woeful schooner
I love continuing to learn more about how intricate this game is 
open berry
I forget the exact amount but he starts the fight with theseus with like 1/4-1/5 of his health already gone if you beat him solo
sharp berry
Hi mythology buffs! The 'Hymn for Zagreus', is that at all based in myth? I heard that Zagreus' origins in greek mythos is highly debated.
woeful schooner
The way that you phrase that makes me want to ask a question. Is there a way to beat him that isn't considered solo? Because if you make it to the Theseus fight then you've beaten Asterius. Or wait... maybe you can make it there without meeting Asterius, is that it? I always seem to encounter Asterius so I guess thats why I haven't taken note of it
sharp berry
Yeah, you might encounter the big butterfly ball mini-boss instead, or bypass them altogether
open berry
zags origin in myth is debated largely because there is so little of him that's been uncovered in myth, which is why he made a perfect protagonist for sgg to play with. the hymn is indeed a reference to the myth of his death and rebirth as dionysus though, as dio tells zag ingame to tell orpheus they are the same as a joke
@woeful schooner take note of the mini skull icons on doors, those usually indicate elite foes/minibosses. if you have a choice between a regular room and one with a skull you can avoid the tougher encounters by not taking the skull
can't recall off hand if there's any additional visual indication between elites and minibosses
crimson temple
There is an additional small red chevron next to the skull icon for miniboss encounters, and two chevrons for chamber bosses.
open berry
that's it
prob easy to miss if you're in a rush though
though not that it matters much 
junior field
sharp berry
damn. thanks @open berry !
timber idol
hey yall, i got a quick question about sisyphis' (idk how to write his name right lol) quest/labor. Nyx said to "wait until the time is right to use my limited authority in the administrative chamber" when zag asked her for a clue about how to help him.
My question is, does that mean
A. die to final boss so that someone is not present in the great hall (because everyone is in the great hall after you get a win) allowing me to do some dirty work behind his back in the administrative chamber
B. its completly random, after each run check the administrative chamber or try to sleep in zag's room.
C. something else will happen after more npc dialogues, nyx is the latest i got regarding sysiphis's punishment.
split kelp
You do need to not only talk to Nyx but IIRC you also need some dialogue from Hades and you need some from Meg to get the Furies off Sisyphus' back for a bit. Just keep talking to people, I guess.
north garden
you have to buy the admin access from the contractor if you haven't, then it's just a matter of talking to people until you get the specific dialogue from Nyx re:sisyphus' contract (she'll tell you a bunch of greek letters for the shelving). Once that happens, you can go into the admin chamber to examine the spark that will appear on one of the walls. Afterward another escape attempt you'll be able to find buy sisyphus' renewed contract from the contractor for diamonds (i can't remember how many).
also just gotta keep upping bond levels if you haven't
frail cobalt
IMO it would be cool if there were some things in the House you could only accomplish by losing to Hades
But people would complain about being forced to lose to see content, sigh
There are already frequently comments like that about certain dialogue with Hypnos only happening when you die
open berry
@frail cobalt which i personally find rather funny because most of hypnos's dialogue is already gated behind.... you dying. the vast majority of his dialogue is various quips regarding the ways you died, so that requires you dying to those things to see them, otherwise he doesnt particularly have too much to say beyond that.
frail cobalt
Yeah my feelings exactly (though I would love infinitely more Hypnos interaction haha)
open berry
though i havent seen any comments about it since the argument i was involved in regarding the autograph situation, because someone was saying it was dumb you had to die to progress that, and i argued the fact that most of what hypnos says already doesnt come up unless you die
so its perfectly reasonable to progress the autograph thing through deaths because its already established hypnos mostly talks to you when you die in a run
bold niche
some Nyx's lines also showed up only after dying, and dying specifically to [redacted]
is it that bad though? you can't possibly complete all the runs nessesary to unlock all the story parts without dying at all.. there has to be some content going on..
and because of that people and their opinion we probably will not see more of Hypnos' story
open berry
i think its mostly people who are in the mindset of playing roguelike games in general, where death is seen as a loss of progress. in hades death is not meant to be seen as losing progress, death still is progress, and the death cycle is even part of the narrative as a whole
bold niche
that's exactly why i hate roguelikes and why i like Hades
desert totem
how do you get the other special keepsake? like the summon skelly one?
bold niche
which other one? there are 5 atm
desert totem
I dont know their name
bold niche
one from Meg, one from Than, one from Sisyphus, and one from Dusa.. basically you have to make relationships stronger, usually with first ambrosia given (7th heart) you can get a special gift
open berry
when in doubt, keep talking to them
thats how you progress the vast majority of things in the game. keep doing runs and keep talking to people
arent the keepsakes also detailed on the wiki, i havent actually looked at those pages truthfully lol
north cloak
When you die in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, the only progress you've made is what you've learned
In Hades at least you are entertained by Hypnos sometimes
open berry
me wishing hypnos had more of a role than being a glorified door greeter aside, again the death cycle is part of the narrative and many characters remark on your deaths, so they still serve a purpose. death in hades isnt supposed to be seen as a loss of progress. its at best a minor setback
the mythology angle makes the death cycle interesting because you are dealing with mostly immortal gods who simply shrug off the concept of death
north cloak
It's also inevitable if you want to play more than 1 run
timber idol
It's also inevitable if you want to play more than 1 run
@north cloak lol what dialogue you get for escaping on the first run in a save
gotta be something good
open berry
of course, but other games handle it differently. in dead cells you are a continuously respawning entity as well, but i personally find that game less accessible. in undermine instead of respawning, each death is technically a death, and your following run is taken up by a new generic peasant, ect. the way these games handle the cycle is also important, and hades entwines it with its lore pretty well
bold niche
and in other roguelikes you're supposed to win in one run.. because one try = whole story.. some parts you may miss, or not, but everything starts and ends in one single try
timber idol
😂
bold niche
yes, you start stronger, with new abilities or items, but still
open berry
you dont really get much acknowledgement for finishing a run in your first attempt, due to how the dialogue cycles
timber idol
damn they gotta do some special exception for a full escape on the first try in a save in npc's dialogues
bold niche
and then the game is like "oh, you lost? that's bad. you were supposed to win, you're weak and lame. good luck next time, looser"
and you're like "but that was impossible!!" and the game is like "so what? you were supposed to do it. pathetic."
and then you alt+F4 controller against nearest wall
open berry
its possible to do but ultimately you're not really supposed to escape on your first attempt since you're missing out on important story details of why the escape is happening in the first place
bold niche
that's why i like Hades.. you're not supposed to escape
open berry
which is why i think the ending is probably going to be tied into like, some minimum number of runs and maybe some other requirements
hades is a roguelike but its still a supergiant title with a big emphasis on its story
timber idol
that's why i like Hades.. you're not supposed to escape
@bold niche THERE IS NO ESCAPE
bold niche
Dead Cells also was pretty soft with it, but there is not much story going on
mystic mortar
first run clears are in no way gamebreaking or story-breaking
I cleared on the first run in my new file and am slowly getting all the dialogue anyways
open berry
thats my point though
you dont get acknowledgement for that because zagreus is not meant to escape early
you as the player can achieve it, zagreus as the protagonist cannot
its bragging rights and you still get all the regular dialogue as normal, as if you had died anyway
mystic mortar
zagreus as the protagonist gets to be completely sincere when he tells nyx that athena came through for him
bold niche
to think of it, we got used to the fact that Zag will never escape, will stay in the underworld, with people he know and love.. they even don't say goodbye for good anymore, just.. "good luck this time"
imagine that he succeeds
and will never see everyone again.. only Hermes can help them stay in touch
well, maybe Than can see him around now and then
but still.. i can't believe SGG wouldn't make a heartbreaking ending
drifting citrus
depending on how long it takes to be ferried to the underworld, he could just occasionally die to say hi to everyone
frail cobalt
@bold niche I wrote a whole long fic around that concept lol
plain palm
ooh y'all were talking about the concept of death in roguelikes
literally wrote a thesis on the representation death in videogames half a month ago and touched on that exact 'issue' of needing to die in hades if you want to unlock something unique
sgg pulling some tricks with death representation as always
timber idol
how you need to die to unlock what?
plain palm
some dialogue options
timber idol
anything except hypnos' remarks on who you died to?
plain palm
not only hypnos' iirc
open berry
i mean if you want to view all dialogue in the game you just have to die to everything, the bosses have remarks as well. the bosses AND gods remark to you being low health, ect. this stuff is all taken into account because its natural to the game, its all part of zag's struggle. you can simply be good at the game and never die if you'd like to do that, but the rebirth cycle is taken into account in the narrative
plain palm
it's a narrative nonetheless, yeah
to get a full narrative experience you gotta die a lot
open berry
its part of why i find sg's choosing to portray zag as a god of blood a bit weird when his and dionysus' whole theme is rebirth
¯_(ツ)_/¯
timber idol
whats the general consensus on spear aspect? guan yu best spear?
static cedar
Aspect of Achilles is one of the best Cast aspects, too
Albeit a bit slow
Goes well with Stygian Soul
timber idol
seems like it got the most dmg potential with the spin move and basic attacks having more dmg
also the tankines of the heals
static cedar
It has a huge increase to cast damage
But yeah, Guan Yu is the best, I think
Attack is more Hammer dependant than special, but they're both good
i only play on 10-ish heat tho so i hope someone else with more game knowledge can chime in
timber idol
also does stygian soul makes exit wounds boon obselete?
split kelp
Guan Yu is easily the best of the bunch despite the drawback. It's kinda like a built-in explosive skewer.
static cedar
So I assume exit wounds works normally
split kelp
Exit Wounds needs a cast that can lodge, so Trippy Shot, Blizzard Shot or Crystal Beam won't work.
static cedar
yeah
they're asking about its interaction with stygian soul, though
when you have a cast that can lodge with that, it does show on the enemies that a cast is lodged to them
and the number of lodged casts do tick down, after a while of being lodged
so i assume that counts as a dislodge
split kelp
I don't think it differentiates between Stygian or Infernal.
static cedar
that's my assumption, as well
but since exit wounds mentions dislodging, and since blood stones visually don't dislodge with stygian soul, it gets a bit confusing
north cloak
Does anybody besides Achilles postulate that Zag is the god of blood? Achilles could be mistaken. Maybe Zag is the god of rebirth - he's certainly getting practice, and it makes sense with being the son of Persephone, grandson of Demeter
icy schooner
I mean blood and rebirth are both possible aspects attributable to the actual zagreus
sterile moon
Has anyone figured out the Zeus / Athena quest line?
open berry
do you mean artemis
mystic mortar
Zagreus: "Keepsakes hold thanks for the tip."
dull yoke
maiden coyote
yes
upbeat willow
Yes, zag has a big heart and lots of love to give to everyone
sterile moon
Got rejected by Dusa
SO
SAD
I don't like you that way, we can still be friends right?
upbeat willow
But platonic love is still love in it's own right 
sterile moon
Yeaaaaah fo sho
pastel tundra
cerberus might be zag's best boy but zag is the NPCs' favourite boy
modern stone
Peach! 
gentle copper
aren't mods always lurking
upbeat willow
gentle copper
the mods are coagulating... i guess you just gotta mention them
upbeat willow
Peach 
wuv you too
modern stone
Aggy! 
peach u had the green discord online icon next to ur name
if u mean not knowing if were afk or not then i didn't
upbeat willow
Death 
dense sparrow
Thanatos, Mors, Ereshkigal, Anubis, Osiris, Nergal, Enlil, Hel, Odin, Mictlantecutli, Yama, Izanami, which death?
dense sparrow
nergal is the god of war, but afterwards semitic influence made him the husband of ereshkigal, thereby gaining the rulership of Kur and make ereshkigal a Semitic Baalit instead of a Sumerian goddess
plain palm
is there already a theory that skelly is zag's grandfather?
north cloak
That is some complicated myth @dense sparrow
crimson temple
is there already a theory that skelly is zag's grandfather?
@plain palm Don't know if I heard it before. But that's both far-fetched and very interesting!
plain palm
i mean who else could that be in case perse provided him
plain palm
nice
junior field
he could be an agent of Charon
Than, Hermes, and Charon can move the dead around
Than would've told you, and Hermes wouldn't dare
mystic mortar
whatever the case, skelly is the real hero of the story
bold niche
well, someone did.. could've been him, or Hermes, or both of them
hallow egret
What if the one who hired Skelly and gave Zagreus infernal arms is that red shade from Elysium
junior field
naw, it's just a shade
hallow egret
And he did so to raise money by betting on Zagreus in the matches against Theseus and minotaur
And it is he who kills Zag once he reaches the surface, to make him fight in Elysium again
open berry
the killing at the surface doesnt mean much though? in earlier stages of the game, asphodel was the end of the game and hydra was the final boss. when elysium was added, that was the end of the game and theseus was the final boss. there used to be old dialogue between hades and zagreus about these, where zagreus says he cant go farther, questions if there even if a surface, ect. you dont get those lines anymore bc they no longer apply to the current state of the game. we've been told the current way the game ends is not how it will end in 1.0
hallow egret
Thats what red shade wants you to think
open berry
theres nothing to lead me to assume red shade holds any importance to anything besides being a fun easter egg in the arena
im just pointing out that the auto death on the surface doesnt necessarily mean anything to the plot itself bc there used to be auto deaths in earlier areas, and content related to those were just removed as more content was added to the game
bold niche
true, but it also doesn't mean there will be any new levels and bosses
maybe some kind of cinematic? about Zag searching for Perse
outer thicket
Idk if fishing is a spoiler, but is there a limit to how many you can find per run or per area?
hallow egret
The final boss will be the red shade, Zag will be able to spot him in time and avoid dying, thus escaping from the underworld
bold niche
theoretically, you can't catch more than 1 fish per chamber, except Styx main chamber, that can be reloaded up to 6 times
crimson temple
I have caught two fish in Tartarus numerous times, though.
There is a formula stating that two fishing spots in a biome need to be at least 10 chambers apart. More info on https://hades.gamepedia.com/Fishing
The temple of Styx is an odd one.
bold niche
interesting.. that in Tartarus the chance of fishing spot in the very first chamber empirically is higher than 50%, maybe even 60%
outer thicket
hmm good to know
balmy crystal
theoretically, you can't catch more than 1 fish per chamber, except Styx main chamber, that can be reloaded up to 6 times
I had the pos fishing legendary and still only got 1 fish in styx, even doing all 5 rooms..
mystic mortar
styx only gives you one fish per run
crimson temple
In the early stages, you could indeed catch several fish there, but it was fixed later. It seems the wiki table is a bit misleading there.
hollow mortar
@manic yoke Do not post any information nor teasers about new content from the technical beta. It's not polite towards users who don't want to get spoiled while not playing the technical beta 
supple dagger
If the gods had canon heights, how tall would Chaos be?
drifting citrus
Very™️
bold niche
well, they hold Earth in their hand
supple dagger
They do.
bold niche
for the creator of everything even that is very small height
oblique ferry
I’ve got to be honest, I was a little disappointed that there wasn’t special dialogue for Father’s Day
crimson temple
There is a special message over at the announcements at least.
The "Underworld's #1 Dad" probably only works because he's the ONLY dad there.
open berry
I like to think the primordial beings can be any size or scale they wish, just depending on what they're doing and how they wish to present themselves to mortals, gods, ect
bold niche
i think what we see in the game is just a semi-physical representation/embodiment of Chaos, since theirs true form lies beyond mortal and divine consciousness, and too great and complicated to comprehend even a bit
hollow mortar
I picture Chaos as being immensely giant so Zagreus would stand on the palm of their hand hehe
molten temple
Peach
hollow mortar
Yuki
molten temple
I think Chaos is just the water, and we get that humanoid physicality as a stand-in so Zag can relate to them.
I've definitely been able to fish more than once in Styx
burnt pewter
@eternal breach for better catch chances try listening to the audio cue, the final submersion of the bait has a distinct sound
graceful quail
but i think you should ask in the beta
static cedar
This channel is for spoilers regarding the main, non-beta release of the game
cedar grove
Ok
static cedar
If you'd like that answered, I think you should ask in #beta-discussion-june20
hushed hornet
Got to FB for the first time! Happy father's day?
I died to his phase 2 but considering it's the first time I got that far I think I did pretty well
graceful quail
it actually gonna bet a bit easier now, since if you got to the surface it unlocks demeter
that means easy wins with blizzard shot
hushed hornet
Yaaaay ice boons!
hushed hornet
gets to FB
immediately dies in Asphodel every subsequent run x.x
ornate siren
:(
mystic mortar
You'll get there
graceful quail
then you are going well and you activate EM2 and learnie becomes a pain again
ornate siren
EM2 is hard but it's so cool
primal cipher
Quick question about Chaos I've seen people refer to them as him, but I always figured they were genderless. Is there a definitive word on this?
primal cipher
Awesome thanks, that's what I thought
upbeat willow
chaos is only ever referred to by they/them/theirs in Hades ^_^
icy schooner
is there an in game explanation for demeter's... rather radical departure from her traditional spheres of influence?
mystic mortar
yes
hushed pilot
She explains it herself. She mentions that her daughter went missing.
cyan umbra
I believe Chaos is, in greek mythology, not even a deity.. Its more of a void/state.
@hollow mortar Also want to point out that Chaos is holding the entire Earth in between their fingers on her art.. So yeah, they are pretty gigantic.
upbeat willow
Primordial entity i think is their title in Hades
open tiger
Or the Earth is really small
upbeat willow
@cyan umbra, chaos goes by they/them/theirs and is genderless
cyan umbra
Yes, in the game.
I was talking about actual Greek Mythology.
Or the Earth is really small, true... true...
upbeat willow
Even in hades chaos ain't a god :3
cyan umbra
Which is good, because Chaos isn't 😛
But there is little rhyme and reason in actual Mythology.. however I'm still glas that Chaos isn't a God.
open tiger
Where are you finding that Chaos is female in Greek Mythology?
cyan umbra
Oh, I used the wrong pronouns. Sorry.
upbeat willow
From everything i know choas is genderless in most tellings of greek mythos
cyan umbra
Fixed it. 😄
upbeat willow
Ty ^_^
cyan umbra
I also never refered to Chaos having a gender in Greek Mythology, because, as far as I know, Chaos has no gender.
upbeat willow
So we're in agreement then, good 
open tiger
Ah, I follow. You were saying "in the game" to "primordial entity*
cyan umbra
Chaos is a state of being. We know Chaos "gave birth", but that could just as well mean that Chaos created her 3 offspring.
Yeah, I think I messed up somewhere.
We are in agreement. 😛
open tiger
No worries lol
upbeat willow
No worries ^_^
Chaos is awesome and definitely one of my favorite characters in hades
Would just want them to tell me stories all day/night/whatever time it is in their realm
cyan umbra
Yeah, I really Chaos in Hades.
Still think it's kind of odd that they personified Chaos and Nyx, but not Tartarus
But lines have to drawn somewhere, I guess
upbeat willow
Yeah, I'm sure they wanted to add a metric tonne of content we'll never see in hades
cyan umbra
To be fair
They already added a metric ton of Greek Mythology to the game
And the characters who are in the game are actually really well done, thematic wise
Im just a geek for Greek Mythology, so anything they add is great for me 😛
open tiger
Definitely :D
cyan umbra
Fun Fact: It took me about 20 runs for me to figure out that it was Daedalus his hammer..
..I kept reading Hephaestus
open tiger
Oof
upbeat willow
Indeed ^_^
open tiger
What're your thoughts on Achilles theorizing that Zag is the god of || blood ||?
cyan umbra
I havent been there yet :3
open tiger
:3
cyan umbra
But Im in the Spoilers Section, so thats my own fault
open tiger
I did spoiler tag it, as well xD
cyan umbra
Didnt greeks used to have a different word for blood.
cyan umbra
I remember Hippocrates (?) having a theory that every major medical issues is caused by an imbalance of the 4 bodily fluids
open tiger
Blood, bile, water, something else, right?
cyan umbra
Flemch?
I feel like its Flemch...
But they used 4 different words for those.. and I believe there was a Minor Deity who was responsible for those.
open tiger
Phlegm
cyan umbra
Also; I check the Codex whenever it tells me t ocheck it, but thats more to just... erase the markers
cyan umbra
Yeah, also just googled that, haha
cyan umbra
Wasnt Appolo the god of Medicine?
cyan umbra
I mean, it would fit that Zag is the God of Blood
All deities, even minor ones are the god of something
Its either that or he is the God of Groundhog Day
open tiger
I asked because I looked up Zagreus, he's a God of Hunting
cyan umbra
Wait, he isnt fictional!?
open tiger
Nope
cyan umbra
Mind Blown
open tiger
Lmao
upbeat willow
Yay ancient medicine how I don't miss you
open tiger
Puns, irony, jokes, and physical
The four humors
cyan umbra
While I agree with your thinking.
I 1) dont think many people actually hold truth to the Greek Pantheon
and 2) a Belief is still fictional 😛
cyan umbra
Sometimes I just claim to believe in Greek Mythology against Chrisitians or Muslims
Just to watch their reactions of disbelief about my Gods
And then turn the argument around
open tiger
I mean, I'm a non-theistic Satanist
open tiger
Oof
upbeat willow
The bot doesn't like many words
cyan umbra
I don't like the bot.
upbeat willow
The bot loves you too
pallid crag
big disagre
upbeat willow
If you wanna talk Lovecraftian pantheon best to go to #off-topic-discussion for that ^_^
bold niche
one time people thought that Troy was fictional.. and then it was found..
we have so little info about Zagreus.. can we really tell, if he is a made up character?
pallid crag
im p sure people have found a bunch of separate sites that may or may not be Troy
upbeat willow
Any tech beta talk/content/anything goes into #beta-discussion-june20 please
burnt harbor
Is there an option to give Charon a mint?
cloud geode
guys it's happening
burnt harbor
I things he needs one by his art
dense sparrow
the 3000 years of waiting has ended yaaaaaaaas
cloud geode
upbeat willow
3000 years, 3 months same difference :p
cloud geode
i know a second on the moon is a lot more on earth so... technically yes it could be the same lol?
dense sparrow
and then SGG made a deal with Khonsu to add 100 more hours to 22/6
cloud geode
and then the maya's world destruction comes 1h late with starbucks
dense sparrow
wait what? this is the 5th sun
cloud geode
oh wait
you haven't heard of "actually we read the maya calendar wrong, the end of the world comes the 21st of june"?
sorry maybe it was just a thing from my country
upbeat willow
They clearly read the calender wrong twice and the end of the world is tomorrow
Just in line with the new update 
cloud geode
this server will pop and crash and burn tomorrow, good luck to you and the mods lol
tall ingot
So the Mayas know about Hades announcement 
dense sparrow
good
cloud geode
this game is so famous an entire civilization based its mythology around it
north cloak
Not just one!
cloud geode
oop right
dense sparrow
yea, but it was like 3 civilizations that based mythologies around it, before it was made too!
cloud geode
they made an entire saga about the sword's fourth aspect crazy right
dense sparrow
and an entire saint is based on the spear's 4th aspect too
cloud geode
w o a h
sorry it made me laugh that you said an "entire" saint, now i imagine guan yu presenting himself to his troops but he doesn't have a leg lol
i know it's stupid, you probably meant an entire cult but still-
cloud geode
ok just read his story on wikipedia and man
what a power move
dense sparrow
if it wasnt for his rude dismissal of Sun Quan's proposal, Shu may have won and he may not have died
like wtf "My daughter is like a tiger, why should i marry her to a dog"
cloud geode
ouch
oh well i just think killing your enemy as a ghost is super rad
too much fnaf i guess
dense sparrow
well he had some power moves, but the move that made his death was plain stupidity
frozen jolt
@dense sparrow please don’t evade the swear filter
dense sparrow
ahhh alright
lemme get this straight, i thought discord was 13+, so isnt swearing commonplace?
cloud geode
well every great hero made questionable choices
remember achilles' "i'm-gonna-wrap-myself-in-a-blanket-like-a-glorified-hosomaki-and-sulk-like-a-toddler" move?
frozen jolt
It’s in our rules! Which I can’t copy since I’m on mobile, but you can read in #readme-first
open berry
glad to wake up just in time for a good old achilles burrito mention
cloud geode
burrito was too mainstream and i like sushi so there
dense sparrow
he lost his slave, so no one's gonna prepare the food for him
junior field
~You know the rules, and so do I~
cloud geode
i think i recall he asked pat to make dinner when odysseus and the other went to him to ask him to fight again
frozen jolt
Well, the reason for the rules is stated right there as you can see
cloud geode
and i also recall patroclus was one of the few people xanto and balio didn't want to kill in sight bc he feeded them and in general thought "master say he good so he good"
dense sparrow
Xanto and Balio?
frozen jolt
Also, for general discussion of myths unrelated to hades please move to #off-topic-discussion
cloud geode
his horses sorry don't know the english names (balius and xanthus)
ok sorry gonna end this here
dense sparrow
but sriously tho if we go there, its usually Pandemonium
primal cipher
I've played 100 hours of this game not including what I played on the epic store, but I still don't have any chaos fish 
junior field
did you get the Poseidon fishing event?
haughty carbon
yeah that one is practically a free fish
primal cipher
I have, I could try more posideon runs, I don't use him that often
I do almost always pop in on chaos though
Make sure they're ok in their void
Not too lonely
frozen jolt
i think the thing is that fishing points can only spawn once in 10 chambers or something like that, and the spawn rate in chaos is already sooo low.... so chaos fish are so tricky to get
pls... i dont even care about the resources... i just want those codex entries
primal cipher
Ahaha I totally agree alma
I haven't looked up the designs either since I want it to be a surprise
frozen jolt
please dont post beta content outside of #beta-discussion-june20!
also yeah ive seen them and theyre so cool... i love fishies
primal cipher
Sorry did I? I don't really know much about the beta
haughty carbon
no no I said something about it
primal cipher
Oh ok
Also super psyched for the official update tomorrow, I'm loving the game obiously
frozen jolt
same! :DD new updates are always hype
bold niche
waking up, looking in the chat, and i'm like "Well, not even last night storm could wake you.. I heard them say we reached Major update"
guess it's time to dive into spoilers
crimson temple
Nothing.
open tiger
no one really knows
polar crown
So nothing
crimson temple
Yeah, technically you can't know for certain if it really does anything or not.
open tiger
did you just get it?
polar crown
Yes
open tiger
then you'll see ^.^
polar crown
Well I'm not seeing anything hence my question.
open tiger
|| exactly ||
polar crown
So yeah nothing but an unfunny joke
open tiger
I think it's hilarious
unreal wyvern
Is the cover of the Blood Price update, Charon's redesign?
unreal wyvern
Do you think he's still gonna be like, "hhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuh"
open berry
why wouldnt he
unreal wyvern
Maybe he'll finally talk if we get that relationship meter up?
open berry
thats part of the persnality theyve set him with
icy schooner
I think they could get away with like one word of dialogue the first time you get max rank and then back to the same just to make you double check if he actually said something
unreal wyvern
Lol. Sounds about right
flat edge
what the max level you can upgrade weapons with titan blood to?
hollow mortar
Max level each can reach is 5.
flat edge
aight cool and does the titan blood requirement like increase?
thorny surge
yes
except with Zagreus aspects
Zagreus aspects always stay at a 1 blood per level requirement, the others increase each level
flat edge
Ok thats good cus im just trying to get skellys companion right now
crimson temple
The total blood requirements to max out aspects are 5 for first, 15 for second, 16 for third and 15 for fourth.
flat edge
oh ok cool
flat edge
does anyone know how to trigger the flashback for the admin chamber
drifting citrus
rng most likely
vernal quail
fierce gust
my relationship with hades is still stuck on 1 heart, does this ever unlock ?
fierce gust
getting all the duo boons is a tough one to complete
bold niche
alright, there is a question.. if i ||kill Skelly with fully upgraded Stygius|| before completing 8, 16 or 32 heat challenges, will there be Skelly's comments about their completion, or not?
ornate siren
There will be
drifting citrus
you won't regret doing it, is what i'll say
bold niche
ok then, thanks
ashen latch
OK so I might be entirely misremembering, but when you do the Guan Yu quest to bring Varatha to the surface with it's future aspect Hades mentioned his new spear
does anyone remember its name? The exact wording of the dialogue escapes me
ashen latch
👍
idle lake
ok the real ending of the game will be:
Hades was a good guy all along
all olympian gods are bad and tricked you
you kick their asses
with the help of hades' boons
open berry
how would the olympians trick you when your goal isnt even to get to olympus lol
idle lake
they sure want you to get out of hell for whatever reason
open berry
yeah bc nyx reached out to them for help
this is stated right at the beginning of the game
nyx is the one who set up contact with zag and the olympians
gentle copper
this is some 4d chess stuff right here
idle lake
It's hard to believe in olympian gods' altruism
junior field
they have their own reasons
crapping on Hades is, undeniably, one of em
for most of em anyway
idle lake
I'm just sure that story is more nuanced than Hades Man Bad, Persephone good
junior field
have you not beaten Hades yet?
junior field
I meant Hades as in the boss
idle lake
I did
junior field
he drops a line that makes it crystal clear that the "Hades Man Bad" thing is just a facade
and throughout the runs, he drops hints multiple times alleging that he, too, tried to get out
short parrot
really curious to see what it will be
idle lake
I don't remember all the interactions but that's exactly why I have that feeling
junior field
and they can't make all Olympians bad simply because they have vastly different agendas
idle lake
I guess 1.0 will drop somewhere at the late autumn?
junior field
Ares hooking up with Nyx, Artemis looking for a friend, Demeter looking for her daughter
late? No, probably end of summer
the upcoming update is the big one
open berry
ares doesnt hook up with nyx though. he reaches out to her and is oddly thirsty, but nyx and than make it clear that whatever implication is there is one-sided and ares knows better than to overstep
short parrot
excited
idle lake
blood price drops tomorrow
short parrot
isn't it today now?
idle lake
I don't think they will release 1.0 after that in two months, unless you meant summer of 2021
idk, time zones
ashen latch
Hades 2: Hades Reverse. Zagreus now has to escape from mount Olympus, his descent from the mountain aided by Chthonic deities both new and old
Boom sequel
junior field
@open berry did I miss some development in that regard? Cause I exhausted all of Nyx' lines and her last one was her basically telling Zag to mind his own business
open berry
than remarks on it as well
junior field
and her being clearly open to Ares' advances
open berry
he takes it as nyx's accomplishments finally being acknowledged, and when zag asks if than thinks ares is being untoward, than says that ares would be foolish to try
nyx doesnt take ares's advancements as romantic
junior field
is that stated in plain text or something you surmised? Cause that's not how I saw it
open berry
Zag: You're going to meet Ares, sometime, Nyx? Or maybe you already have?
Nyx: What is your concern, exactly, child? Speak plain with me, or else take not my time.
Zag: Well, I... it's just, Ares, he's... I don't know, he just doesn't seem your type. And isn't he a little young for you?
Nyx: You do not understand the basis of our friendship, child. Lord Ares may not meet the moral standard of the mortals who hate him, or Olympians who shun him, but to me? He is cordial and eager to learn. I am quite capable of forming my own views on him.
Zag: Um, Nyx, I... Ares sends you his regards again. Wanted to let you know.
Nyx: Thank you, my child. We may seldom have occasion to encounter one another, he and I, but it is good to have another friend upon Olympus. Even if goddess Athena and he are not on the best of terms.
i dont read romantic interest on nyx's part at all.
junior field
it seemed romantic from Ares' side tho
open berry
Zag: Than? I thought you ought to know that Ares, he... I think he's taken quite an interest in Nyx. Keeps asking me to talk to her on his behalf.
Than: Finally. It's about time Olympus took notice of Mother and all her accomplishments.
Zag: Finally? You don't think Ares has untoward intentions or anything like that?
Than: He'd be a hollow fool if he did. Why do you think they fear us on Olympus, Zagreus? Because of Hypnos? I don't think Mother Nyx requires your concern. Though, by all means, talk to her about it, if you like.
its all one-sided
though than's part of it did take longer to come up on my end so, as per rng
frozen jolt
this does read as romantic and two sided to me, even if she says friendship lol
than calls zag his friend as well
open berry
nyx as a whole doesnt express those kind of interests though
thats why i dont see any romantic intent on her part
junior field
yeah, I haven't see Than's dialogue but it just seems like a reinforcement of Nyx' own words
brittle flume
How did Nyx and Hades get together anyway?
open berry
her part of it comes off more like. a transaction of sorts. exchange of ideals
junior field
they didn't
Nyx was down under long before Hades came to be
they reached a mutual understanding, due to the nature of their work and the increased traffic coming from the surface
open berry
wasnt it something like, hades came in and handled the administrative things and nyx just let him take the reigns on that
brittle flume
Huh, upon checking, Thanatos and Hypnos weren't borne from Hades
junior field
her children are employed as well
brittle flume
How does Nyx make her babies anyway?
junior field
that is correct, Nyx is their father-mother
brittle flume
Oh. Oh
frozen jolt
mb im wrong about the romantic intention... who knows. it read to me that way when i saw that plotline
brittle flume
Nyx seems ace
junior field
well, after the redesign, she certainly is
brittle flume
If Nyx does not need a partner to have offspring, it makes sense she has no romantic inclinations
open berry
just the way nyx carries herself, the way she interacts with everyone else, her dialogue... she genuinely does not come off to me as someone who would even... realize someone is necessarily pursuing her in a romantic way. not bc she doesnt notice, but she just doesnt see such things in the same manner as zagreus would, for instance. which is pretty clear bc he keeps expressing his concern about it and she just carries on like its a normal conversation
junior field
she's clearly not averse to companionship, going off her mythology and design, along with the "mother of Zagreus" plotline
open berry
thats why i dont read the nyx and ares thing as more than one-sided on ares's part. ofc thats just my perspective from taking the dialogue and all her previous interactions into account
brittle flume
Hence why she seems unconcerned
junior field
either way, my point was that the gods had their own reasons for aiding Zag
open berry
nyx is kinda everyone's mother, in a way
not like in a literal sense but just the energy she has
timber idol
well she did build the whole underworld....
open berry
well yes, she is night itself lol
timber idol
and is the direct daughter to primordial chaos..
open berry
nyx be my mom but dont treat me like hypnos challenge
brittle flume
The literal embodiment of the night
timber idol
which is probably the most powerfull diety we encounter in the game...
probably more powerfull than the dead titans
brittle flume
Chaos might be a contender
open berry
remember that in myth when hypnos put zeus to sleep on hera's request and he retreated to nyx's safety, zeus wanted no part in spurring the wrath of an angry mother
brittle flume
telling that he's willing to spur the wrath of an angry wife repeatedly but not nyxmom
timber idol
also about the theories about the full game story, i think its gonna heavly involve demeter, Persephone is her daughter
junior field
slacking off, clearly
timber idol
and it is already implied she goes out looking for her. the overworld is in an iceage it seems because of her
junior field
I think Demeter drops a comment regarding his non-involvement
brittle flume
In-game tho
He seems like a pretty important god to just leave out of a game specifically about Greek gods
timber idol
who is apollo? god of the sun?
open berry
apollo wasnt as relevant o the story itself, devs said in qa a few months back
the goal was never to add every olympian
timber idol
well they also didnt include Demeter, the mother of the main plot's reason to exits (looking for Presephone zags mother) until a later update
I think Apollo is not yet implemented for same reason, he might be an important god
brittle flume
From a beta lore release perspective tho, it kinda makes sense
timber idol
and one SGG could use for more plot points
but not that important for the early access
brittle flume
SGG has said that Demeter was the last boon god they plan to release
brittle flume
Nah, it's not like it's plastered everywhere
That's why Apollo and to a lesser extent Hephaestus not being mentioned as much is weird imo
timber idol
maybe its cuz its not that important to the game's plot
brittle flume
True but I expect more than just one throwaway line from Demeter
open berry
that sure was quick
timber idol
could be cool to have more boon gods, even post 1.0 release, and just have runs limited in the pools of possible gods you get
to reduce RNG
upbeat willow
Hai Peach
gentle copper
peach!! ;v;
timber idol
like if we get 14 total , each run can have only 7+ hermes
also have another "utility" god like hermes
brittle flume
Like, unless Hephaestus and Apollo are in super permanent timeout by the rest of Olympus, you'd expect them to talk a bit more about them
Or even Zag
Zag should know who Apollo and Hephaestus are
hollow mortar
OMG A LEMON 🍋
brittle flume
And should be wondering why he hasn't seen or heard of them yet
ashen latch
Apollo is busy dealing with Python and already knowing how this all ends because his oracles told him tbh
I’m the greatest 🍋
hollow mortar
Hello, fruity friend~
upbeat willow
Hai 🍋
ashen latch
Also between the 3 missing gods, Hestia, Apollo and Hephaestus, we have a common theme. Fire. The devs might be thinking about how to properly differentiate them tbh
timber idol
And should be wondering why he hasn't seen or heard of them yet
@brittle flume might be stright up unimplemented content, we do have 15K+ lines already...
ashen latch
I guess Hera is also not around, but idk about her
Seeing as she left behind her warlike aspect
timber idol
maybe things are coming in future updates
brittle flume
If Zeus is there I can reasonably expect Hera not to be there tho if I'm being honest
timber idol
the thing i wanna hear about
brittle flume
Like, imagine if she found out Zeus was helping this random demigod escape from Tartarus
I am 100% sure she'd make the most hilarious possible conclusion from those bare facts
timber idol
is a juicy shoutout to one of the users of a chaos weapon.. a friend of athena who starts with K
got a beef with ares
ashen latch
Tbf, we don’t know if Zagreus is more like Dionysus or like Heracles in terms of how his divinity works seeing as he’s only 1/4th mortal
Everyone on Olympus thinks he’s divine
brittle flume
Make him 1/3 just to confuse historians
timber idol
Like, imagine if she found out Zeus was helping this random demigod escape from Tartarus
@brittle flume he's a full god not demi, presephone was a full goddess daughter of demeter and zeus no?
thorny surge
He seems to be a bit higher than herakles on the god scale
brittle flume
They think he's Nyx's son and they don't count Chthonic gods as real gods
thorny surge
Still considered divine but not on the same scale than his father or Nyx is
ashen latch
Sure, but they can’t seem to tell the difference
Not even Alecto does and she actually points out that you bleed red
brittle flume
Don't they outright call him a demigod too?
ashen latch
Not as far as I know, but they do mention Persephone’s father being mortal
Unless I’m completely misremembering the in game dialogue
timber idol
Persephone (/pərˈsɛfəniː/ pər-SEF-ə-nee; Greek: Περσεφόνη), also called Kore (/ˈkɔːriː/ KOR-ee; Greek: Κόρη; "the maiden"), is the daughter of Zeus and Demeter.
he is full god yall
brittle flume
The Olympians do not know that Zag is Persephone's son
timber idol
bleeds red probably cuz he's the god of blood, life, and rebirth
brittle flume
We know he's Per's son but the gods do not
upbeat willow
we don't nessesarily know that with Hades though
ashen latch
@timber idol they have changed a ton of lore in this game. Demeter isn’t even Zeus’s sister, she is Hyperion’s daughter
Only children of Kronos in this version are the male children
timber idol
@timber idol they have changed a ton of lore in this game. Demeter isn’t even Zeus’s sister, she is Hyperion’s daughter
@ashen latch she is that in the real lore too
brittle flume
Again, I distinctly remember Zag being called before 'little demigod'
upbeat willow
we know Persephone is the daughter of Demeter, we however don't know the other half
vapid parcel
it gets mentioned that persephone's dad is a mortal farmer
timber idol
she is a dougther of a titan
vapid parcel
demeter tells you that after a while
ashen latch
They went out of their way to pick and chose versions of myths that avoided the incest
brittle flume
Ah, that makes sense
Kind of softens the 'Greek myth' feel but makes sense
Who has the most screwed up lineage again?
ashen latch
They do poke fun on it though when Dionysus and Zagreus prank Orpheus. Orphic Dionysus and Zagreus were essentially the same thing with Zagreus being his epithet at the time
Back when Dionysus was a much more Chthonic deity with elements that later became Pan
timber idol
well if shes a daughter of another titan not zeus' father, Persephone could still be her and zeus' child
brittle flume
I think it was a guy who was born to his own daughter or something, Greek mythology is hilariously ridiculous sometimes
timber idol
maybe demeter is ashamed of that and tells zag the father was a mortal farmer
frozen jolt
Again, I distinctly remember Zag being called before 'little demigod'
zagreus is called "little godling" by aphrodite, which could be just a nickname, and artemis calls him a "half-god" in a trial when he doesnt pick her which could be just her anger
timber idol
and also the mortal could be zeus in disgause and she wouldnt even know that
brittle flume
Oh, hmm, that makes sense
vapid parcel
the way she speaks about the farmer i doubt it tbh
timber idol
which from what i heard
vapid parcel
cause he literally died
timber idol
is quite the jest zeus loved to pull
brittle flume
Thanks alma
vapid parcel
doubt Zeus would go that far xD
ashen latch
I mean, you are making a ton of assumptions Natahn. This game already breaks Greek myth conventions, I don't see Persephone being a demigod as that weird
like for gods sake, Hestia has an assault rifle with a grenade under barrel attachment
ashen latch
she was so badass in your youth she needed to become the Goddess of the hearth
she fought for her family like she was Guile in Street Fighter
brittle flume
There's a reason why even Zeus respects hospitality
timber idol
hmm i just dont like the idea of a lower power level for characters
timber idol
keeps zag pure blood god is more of a preference of mine tbh
ashen latch
What do you mean? Mortal blood does nothing to slow Zag down
this isn't Percy Jackson
timber idol
unrelated question
ashen latch
the kid is a one man wrecking ball that doesn't become a shade when he dies
timber idol
is aphro married to ares?
ashen latch
he for all intents and purposes follows the rules of the greek gods
brittle flume
aphro is married to heph
ashen latch
in that he can be defeated but not die
brittle flume
ares is married to bloodshed
vapid parcel
we dont know who aphros hubby is
timber idol
lol
ashen latch
only thing that being quarter mortal has done to Zag is make him bleed red
brittle flume
*that we know of
vapid parcel
as achilles puts it "there's no such thing as lesser gods"
timber idol
only thing that being quarter mortal has done to Zag is make him bleed red
@ashen latch that could be a plot thing , more on the "god of blood" side of things
ashen latch
not only that, Heracles in actual greek myth ascends to divinity
brittle flume
as the god of wine, he's arguably one of the most powerful and important
ashen latch
like mortality in greek myth has and always was arbitrary when faced with divinity or when its offset by it
Dionysus straight up shed his mortality by incubating in Zeus's thigh
Heracles sorta just got promoted after he died
brittle flume
sounds like something dio would do ngl
brittle flume
i knew the consequence and i looked forward to them
timber idol
Dionysus straight up shed his mortality by incubating in Zeus's thigh
@ashen latch putting an ancient mask on*
ashen latch
use Malphon and Dionysus buffs for a Dio themed run
eternal breach
Zag aspect for maximum MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA
open berry
can we acknowledge that when someone mentions dio in hades/myth discussion its almost always dionysus 😔
junior field
Heracles wasn't made immortal tho
eternal breach
Dont forget to grab attack speed
brittle flume
I think Hades mentions Heracles at some point in the past
ashen latch
multiple versions existed of the myths. There is straight up a version of the Dionysus myth where he didn't sit in Zeus's thing but instead was in a place closer to the middle
junior field
it's alluded that Heracles is in Hades in the game, somewhere in Elysium
open berry
zag asks why theseus is in the arena and snidely remarks to the effect of, what, couldnt get heracles to do your dirty work? ect
timber idol
I think Hades mentions Heracles at some point in the past
@brittle flume yes he complain that he gotta fight that greek king and not herkales at the end on elysium
brittle flume
What did Theseus reply with?
open berry
no zag asked hades that
brittle flume
Does he just abruptly end the conversation without giving an answer?
Oh, hmm, my mistake then
open berry
thooough iirc he does mention heracles to theseus once, let me check through my notes
forest phoenix
I think he does mention heracles to theseus
Something like "isn't there an actual hero I can fight? what about heracles?"
junior field
I don't recall Theseus commenting on Heracles directly, but Hades did say he wasn't as "heroic" as the tales tell
open berry
Zag: Shouldn't I be the Champion of Elysium, now that I've beaten you? Isn't there someone else around to challenge me, say, Heracles? Someone less chatty?
Theseus: Ah, hahaha, very clever, fiend. Invoking Heracles' name, in an attempt to drive me to a jealous rage. It shall not work! But you shall dearly pay nevertheless!
timber idol
man i died laughing when he got upgraded using the pact of punishment
open berry
extreme measures theseus is legitimately one of my favourite parts
ashen latch
@junior field There were multiple versions of the Heracles myth, many of them had him ascend to godhood many even had him marry Hebe when he reached Olympus. The Romans were particularly fond of him, Mark Atony even considering something of a personal patron/favorite god
like trying to afix a singular version of the myths won't ever work
because there are literally countless iterations of them depending on how far back you go
there were versions of the Mycenean pantheon where Poseidon was the most important god
and not Zeus
open berry
oh yeah poseidon got downgraded haha
still kinda wish they had incorporated a lil bit of orphic dionysus into his characterization but oh well
into dio i mean
obvs
ashen latch
tbh I sorta thought Zag would have that
timber idol
the only thing i really want added tho is line from ares and athena that they got an eye on a great spartan warrior or something
just a small nod or easter egg, maybe chaos saying that he also had blades fashioned after the shield and just now have seen athena bestowing them on some mortal
ashen latch
but he lacks the blatant bravado and borderline cruelty that Orphic Dio had
timber idol
anything really 😂
ashen latch
even Achilles says he isn't very warlike
open berry
thats why i said a lil bit haha
just like something under the surface, you see g limpse during trials if you spurn him or smth
would have been interesting
ashen latch
maybe we will see that later on
open berry
doubtful at this stage
ashen latch
like we have seen Zag frustrated
but never truly angry
maybe angry Zag will show his Orphic roots and tendacies
let some of that Chthonic madness slip out
timber idol
his
Battle tendancies? 😏
anyway mind telling a story of that orphic dionysis? cuz i havent heard about that at all
ashen latch
Remember that prank Dionysus and Zagreus pull on Orpheus? It's basically the Orphic Dionysus story, or at least a very small part of it in a tongue and cheek joke due to Orphism's namesake
basically Dionysus's previous incarnation according to Orphism was Zagreus. Who in this version was either the son of Hades and Persephone or Zeus and Persephone (don't ask)
Zagreus was punished by way of the titans, and just like the prank we see in game, Orphism sees him be punished through dismemberment
with his heart being later placed in Zeus's thigh in order for him to be reborn as Dionysus
the "heart" part of the myth does carry over to the post Mycenean myth. But rather than being the heart its baby Dionysus in the myth we typically learn
where Zeus shows a pregnant Semele his divine form and kills her forcing him to place an infant Dionysus in his thigh (rather than Zagreus's heart)
ashen latch
because Zagreus in Orphism was named Zeus's heir (even in the version where he is Hades's son)
Hera gets pissed of and tips the Titans off and they rip him apart (it was a typo when I said he was punished with them)
eternal breach
Zag, hearing about all of this stuff: I Am Looking Away, what the heck
ashen latch
he was also way less nice than Dionysus is typically depicted in modern media
Orphic Dionysus was just as much a god of the underworld and madness as he was over wine
eternal breach
Honestly i doubt our zag and dio would be that scary if they fused
ashen latch
yeah, they seem rather mellow
Dionysus isn't even that upsets (compared to the others) when you chose someone else's boon over his during a trial of gods
while Achilles outright says Zagreus is nowhere near violent enough to use all 6 infernal arms forever
eternal breach
I can imagine Zag being a pretty scary god when he grows up but only when rightfully angry over something
Like, he's as kind as he's always been but you still don't want to cross him
thorny surge
I kinda wish Dionysus was shown using his domain over madness sometimes
open berry
that's why I wish you get a slight peek at that during his trials 😔
ashen latch
Orphic Dio did love to transform stuff, maybe combine that with the wine and have illusions during the trail?
eternal breach
I also have a feeling the madness part comes when dio and zag become closer friends and get drunk together
open berry
would have made him a bit more interesting. I do enjoy his characterization but at the same time he's just like. typical easy going party dude and he just needs a lil smth more
ashen latch
yeah, they went for a way more Roman version
eternal breach
As much as WHAT THE HECK MAN is funny
ashen latch
the Romans heled him as much more of a god of celebration
like he was everyone's favorite god during celebrations after big wins
eternal breach
Like the other olympians give you a vibe that even if youve befriended them theyre still not to be messed with
ashen latch
tbh I just feel bad when I screw over Athena
eternal breach
Same
Artemis, Athena, Dio, i always feel bad
Doesnt help that i feel like those three Zag is a bit closer with
Or that might just be the vibe im getting
ashen latch
I get those vibes as well
eternal breach
Aphro, Demeter, Ares, IM TRYING NOT TO DIE OH NO THEYRE MAD RUN RUN RU
Zeus and Posei i legit feel kinda meh about
I wish there was more to them
as much as i love weird fish uncle
ashen latch
Athena is the one most invested in helping you, Dionysus (probably due to the shared origin) gets along with him probably the easiest while Artemis who is normally super reclusive actually opens up to you
like Artemis's convo with Zagreus when you get her duo boon with Zeus is adorable
eternal breach
YES
ashen latch
she's basically all "I can't greet you like I normally do because my dad is here, I'm so sorry"
eternal breach
Hc: Zag toasts a bottle of nectar to Dio once and Dio actually hears and is v happ about it
open berry
my brain during this convo https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/357344472880644118/720861667646242866/thinkin_about_ares.png
eternal breach
I CANT LAUGH THUS HARD IN A TRIAN DAMN IT
open berry
LOL
honestly doesn't help it's like 4 in the morning and I'm just feeling sleepy and muddled do brain is like. no I'm turning off. ares. where's ares.
eternal breach
Shhh its okay he's with you
eternal breach
Ares will watch over u
Go to schleep
Can't be waging war without proper sleep now can you
open berry
🥺
eternal breach
Bed bed bed
urban needle
And people think gamers aren't wholesome
bold niche
i've noticed
when Theseus calls a god, every one of them first chase Zag with a series of aoe attacks
just at the point where he stands, so he has to run
but Dio aims around randomly
idk if it's intended, but if it is, it's a nice touch
either he is not that willing to kill Zagreus on sight
or he is.. you know.. being Dio and trying his best
eternal breach
He's drunk
But god i love the thought of Dio not wanting to kill Zag
Also comes with i feel like Artemis' pattern is super easy after the initial attack
Maybe shes a similar case
Shes also actually the reason i won for the first time against theseus
bold niche
they really do stand apart, both in this case and in the trial of gods
ashen latch
Tbh I remember thinking Thesus only had one pattern after my first run to Elysium
bold niche
Arty is the only one, who doesn't 100% forgive Zag, and Dio doesn't even remember, why he was angry
ashen latch
Then Poseidon wipes the floor with me
Because I didn’t think he could call other gods
nocturne sandal
when i dont pick artemis in a trial i always feel like she's about to get navy seals copypaste levels of mad
modern stone
Aggy!
upbeat willow
Death! 
dense sparrow
oh so thats Death...
pastel tundra
I once had to pick between Aphro and Dio and boy was it a mistake to cross Aphro
Bullet hell in Asphodel...
cloud geode
i once chose aphro over artemis because boi that heart is annoying but regretted it
my sweet arti sorry child
pastel tundra
Now I just avoid choice rooms because I'm weak and only have gotten so far by kiting and God Mode 😭
cloud geode
what's kiting
pastel tundra
Hit and run
cloud geode
oh ok thanks
like with the bow
pastel tundra
Yeah like you'd run up and shoot them then dash away
cloud geode
honestly one of the hardest is poseidon
like aphro but worse bc it's harder to see
pastel tundra
One day I may have the courage again to make choices like that and be admonished by fictional relatives
atomic forge
you gotta do it, 2 boons 1 room too much value. So what you lose a chunk of hp
cloud geode
look try ares i remember he's not that hard
and athena, it's just enemies that become invulnerable for 2-3 seconds
pastel tundra
More like I lose my life lol.
If I see Ares and Athena in a choice room in-game sometime, I'll give it another go, thanks for the advice
cloud geode
np!
Also Demeter... you eventually have to train with all of them so you have more control over what you choose but...
better appeasing grandma.
only one word: tornado
pastel tundra
I managed to complete one run to the end with Demeter... best grandma.......
dense sparrow
actually tornado aint that bad friend
cloud geode
it always spawns where i need to go dammit
dense sparrow
you can see where it spawns by the circles on the ground
cloud geode
yes i know
it's not that i can't dash around it the tornado is just annoying and i think it's one of the hardest trials
not that they're hard anyway, some gods are just more tricky than others
dense sparrow
ares is hardest, the damage output is huge even when you get in it for a second
flint wing
aphrodite gives me the most trouble, that heart is so fast and does so much damage
cloud geode
for me it's posi
oblique ferry
Ares and Poseidon are the worst ones for me, Artemis and maybe Zeus are the easier ones. Also Artemis gets flustered when you don’t pick her and that’s sometimes worth it just for that.
dense sparrow
you are a bad person, friend
gentle copper
artemis is the easiest hands down tbh
idle lake
so update will go live in roughly 3 hours?
clear oracle
my sweet arti
@cloud geode how dare you :(
cloud geode
i won't do it again i promise
clear oracle
You'd better 👀
ashen latch
Trial of the gods rejections be like:
Zeus and Poseidon: Indignant Uncle noises
I sleep
Ares: Something Something wargod
Bonding time
Artemis: I trusted you...
I’m so sorry 😦
gentle copper
artemis rly lays on the guilt thick on you
split kelp
Nah, at this point Arty expects me to spurn her, and it's just business.
dense sparrow
you are a horrible person
open berry
target practice
oh yeah same lmao
hate to keep picking on her but uh, the least painful trial by a lot
demeter is one i actively avoid when i can bc she has such a wide range
shadow dune
I'm apparantly the odd one out in thinking that Zeus is a pain in the butt and Demeter is my relaxation challenge
split kelp
Did the bot eat my message?
open tiger
Maybe?
split kelp
Apologies, bot.
Anyway, she hits like a wet noodle compared to Granny or the war monger, so of course tick Arty off when given the option. I kinda feel sorry for her but she's used to it and now it's just business.
shadow dune
Poseidon is a pain tho. I'm pretty comfortable doding Ares as well.
open tiger
Pos isn't that bad for me, though often I'll want his boon anyway
split kelp
Poseidon is one of my more frequent spurns as well. Athena too as she is more annoying than dangerous, particularly in Elysium.
Demeter is a big no-no, and Ares is a big no-no unless that would mean I have to tick of Demeter.
open berry
a mod may have deleted your message for how you referred to ares
since that word can be seen as derogatory towards people with mental illness
ashen latch
Tbh only time where Athena is imo more than annoying is when I use the Bow
open berry
if the bot had deleted it you would have seen the bot message
split kelp
I mean... he is a complete psychopath?
open berry
im just saying thats the only reason i can see it was removed lol
ashen latch
But yeah, Athena’s is easier to manage relatively speaking
open berry
throwback to athena elysium trial with a room full of pre-nerf greatshields
fun times
split kelp
Athena's is worse in Elysium than anywhere else, but even there in the current state of the game well doable.
Aphro is another really bad one.
dense sparrow
aphro is not that bad tbh
open berry
aphro is only bad if theres a lot of things going on and her heart gets lost in the chaos
eternal breach
^
open berry
otherwise shes pretty easy to track imo
dense sparrow
i just dont find most of them hard except ares and posi
eternal breach
My first spurn was ares. I had no idea what trial of the gods was.
nova spoke
That aggressive tracking on Aphro's stunning heart is aggravating
shadow dune
@ashen latch I had Sea Storm and Cold Fusion on a run and it was glorious
eternal breach
I screamed the entire time.
split kelp
I think my first spurn was Athena, but the uncertainty of if she would be permanently ticked off and the resulting mayhem made me skip out on taking Trials for a long while early on.
dense sparrow
meh i had cold fusion and splittin bolt on run
eternal breach
Amd they would be salty at yoz if you did it too much
eternal breach
Honestly i dont wanna make them mad i got too attached to them
split kelp
At this point Arty might opt to never speak to me ever again. Don't think I ever picked her if I had the option.
eternal breach
I keep picking her because i cant stand it if shes upset
I mean look at my name lmao
dense sparrow
what if when you pick a god first you get a bonus chance for rare or higher
eternal breach
Should be a teller
dense sparrow
Is there any benefits for pickin a god first except not having to ddeal with their trial?
ashen latch
Nah, it’s based purely on who you want to fight
open berry
i spurn ares for fun bc i love hearing him barely restrain his need to pulverize me into mush for my transgression
depends on the map tho lol
dense sparrow
"ares lovemail"
dense sparrow
i always spurn ares although other gods are easier, for some reason.....
iron flame
Hey folks! Quick heads up - this channel is changing its name to hades-story-and-spoilers. 👍
open berry
my natural habitat
dense sparrow
okay now this is here there is no reason to go into other channels, ever
open berry
oh no we got moved down, no longer under discussion
junior field
Inhale = lore, exhale = 
open berry
well sorta
dense sparrow
its still under discussion tho
open berry
well i meant directly beneath
as in the very next channel
but when i said that we were under the gameplay related channels that got made lol
dense sparrow
wait so if sgg is gonna try to avoid incest should they not touch mythology in anyways?
every mythologies have a ton of incestuous relationships
open berry
mate you can like. just make your own spin on mythology and simply not use those aspects, its fine
bleak osprey
i cannot believe that this is what we're starting off with.
open berry
its not something you need to touch on just bc its featured in every mythology
bleak osprey
we're not, by the way.
dense sparrow
well, its on my head atm so i had to mention it
ashen latch
So many versions of Greek myth going as far back as the Mycanean era and the fall of the Bronze Age exists so they can honestly pick and chose
bleak osprey
you really didn't. let's move on and pick literally any other aspect of the story, please!
ashen latch
Like Aphro went from being a war goddess, to not being one to being one again
Over the course of centuries
Poseidon was demoted
The list of stuff that changed through the years is enormous
dense sparrow
APhro is not even Greek, she was Sumerian/Babylonian/Akkadian/Assyrian aaaaaaaa
somber gull
raise your hand if you're still 3 patches behind on story content 🙌
open tiger
Every God has roots in older religions
bleak osprey
🙌
cloud geode
oof so many channels now
clear oracle
I have selection paralysis
somber gull
was really glad to see my fam Orpheus and Eurydice reunited tho