Im only missing Demeter, but i dont know what the prerequisites are
#h1-story-discussion
nocturne sandal
vapid parcel
you can check on the wiki under "boons" it's a picture at the very bottom
silk carbon
when eurydice is singing and zag's saying something dumb like "that hit the spot" i'm like "LET HER SING"
gray jetty
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NtC821mhJLeUXE61SaIOe6q-GPYXs22A/view?usp=sharing
^All boon progressions and Duo prereqs in spreadsheet form
I made it to help me plan builds on the fly.
All except Artemis, I just had to paste @hollow mortar's awesome chart instead because Artemis's boon progression defied my every attempt to put it in a damn spreadsheet.
hollow mortar
Bear in mind some boons have 2 prerequisites instead of one. Other than that, good job 
nocturne sandal
I wonder if finding persephone will change the game somehow, the final battle could be summerlike instead. Perhaps demeter will be in a better mood
vapid parcel
i don't think persephone wants her mom to know about her but it could be a thing
silk carbon
ppl have discussed here that we'll possibly bring heat from the pacts of punishment to thaw the winter in the surface
vapid parcel
that sounds cool but idk? i feel like the heat is sth they do want you to do but in a way is sorta optional?
silk carbon
i mean, heat is as optional as the mirror or aspects
it's a story driven way to progress
open berry
I dont want them tying difficulty to the ending
silk carbon
maybe they'll play a bigger part in the story, maybe not
junior field
Hades will start and end the battle with a yo mama joke
silk carbon
the real ending of the game will be:
after sending dad back to the house, we'll buy treats for cerberus, then go back
gray jetty
The game has already deviated from the established myth as Demeter knew all about Hades janking her baby, Hermes told her, so she stopped the rain from falling to force the Olympians to make Hades release Persephone. Hades relented, but he'd tricked Persephone into eating a Pom she had to spend half the year in the Underworld.
If we accept the premise that Greek myths are canon to the game (which is a big if), then this means the events unfolding ingame happened after all that, so why doesn't Demeter seem to know that Zag is her grandson?
and what the hell is Kore?
silk carbon
demeter says "they told me kore went to the underworld. bollocks! can't believe anyone"
so they did tell her but she didn't believe them
kore = persephone
and they think nyx is zag's mom, so the thought that perse is his mom didn't cross demeter's mind
drifting citrus
kore is persephone's other name, which hades explicitly says that neither he or she liked (yet demeter calls her that anyway)
lunar kiln
basically it goes like this
lunar kiln
||- kore is born to demeter and a mortal, and is stated to have mortal blood (shes said to be a demigod in a convo iirc)
- demeter admits she hasnt been kind to her daughter so do with that information what you will about her childhood
- sometime later kore decides to call herself persephone; hades says she did that because she hated the kore name (from the above point we can probably figure out why)
- at one point persephone escapes from her home, and is never seen again despite demeter herself looking everywhere for her; demeter thinks she was "taken by mortals" since she has mortal blood, so she makes them pay with the whole eternal winter thing going on even today
- helios tells demeter that her daughter has actually gone to the underworld, but demeter refuses to believe him and does nothing with that information
- meanwhile persephone is indeed in the underworld, she meets hades and zag happens i guess and she leaves the underworld later
- cut to the present where zag meets demeter (without any of them knowing about the other) and learns more about persephone from her
- eventually zag realizes that demeter is indeed his grandma but doesn't tell her||
silk carbon
"demeter_ebooks" - name checks out
thorny surge
Man is she gonna get pissed when she finds out
lunar kiln
||and in the end no one seems to know where persephone is besides maybe nyx, who helped her escape||
thorny surge
Also no wonder she ||hates kore, i’d also hate my name if it literally just meant girl||
atomic forge
The fun part is where Demeter deadnames Persephone a few times and it takes a few runs for her to actually call Persephone by her name.
thorny surge
Yeah, Nyx is no pushover
An added benefit of her juicing us up with darkness is that her power clouds our presence even to chaos itself
vapid parcel
dlc/flashback where you play persephone escaping the underworld
silk carbon
i know that's never gonna happen but that got me so hyped lol it's actually a great idea
lunar kiln
persephone escaping the underworld is just ||a walking simulator through all the biomes bc she's cloaked by nyx's powers||
atomic forge
Make it survival horror.
thorny surge
But what about the lava
lunar kiln
there are boats
silk carbon
zag never asks eurydice if she saw persephone, right?
lunar kiln
the boats that go from one island to the other
silk carbon
maybe they had a chat and dinner
thorny surge
No i mean the lava often separating the smaller islands
Or the constant lava blobs exploding
atomic forge
It's magma, not lava.
thorny surge
it’s actually neither
atomic forge
Zagreus has a one Dash baked-in, you think he got it from Persephone?
thorny surge
the phlegeton is just burning water
I’d say he got it from Hades, he also loves to dash around
silk carbon
the phlegeton is just burning water
underworld physics are weird
thorny surge
I think he should grind more darkness though, he can only dash once and only bought a single DD
lunar kiln
thats bc he's holding back
remember extreme measures hades is gonna be a thing
or no he's not holding back he's just old
joints are all cranky and all
atomic forge
I see Phase 2 as him no longer holding back.
thorny surge
Yeah i was about to go there
He literally says that in once of his own death sentences
atomic forge
EM4 will either be an upgrade or boosting him back to his strength during the Titanomachy.
thorny surge
Probably also lost some shape from having been on a desk job for millenia
lunar kiln
EM hades is still him except he went to the spa so his bones are that of a young person
thorny surge
Don’t think he gets to exercise much nowadays
silk carbon
hades doesnt use DD, he's testing stubborn defiance out
silk carbon
EM hades will have cerberus helping him, but zag cant attack his good boy
lunar kiln
who knows
thorny surge
I feel like an idiot, i just realized that the skulls are Hades’ casts
open berry
cerb isnt going to be involved in battles lmao
thorny surge
The debuff is even called Burning Blood too
open berry
no matter how much people want it its not gonna happen. at most maybe off screen projectiles or smth. but devs already commented on how hard cerb is to rig just having him sit
thorny surge
He really is a Zag mirror match
lunar kiln
i can see EM hades moving around even more
like he'll throw his spear and jump to it like zag's achilles aspect
thorny surge
What if EM Hades also copies some of the boons
lunar kiln
hades god gauge
open berry
hades hates his olympian family, why would he copy their boons
gray jetty
I love deflect dashing Hades' skulls back in his stupid FACE
thorny surge
His dashes now deal damage around him, he applies a wrath-like debuff on hits, his skulls now seek like artemis’ cast, etc
lunar kiln
he switches places with his casts and retaliates immediately after
thorny surge
@open berry it’s less Hades copying them and more a gameplay equivalent to play more on the whole mirror match deal
silk carbon
i can see EM hades having a 3rd phase
thorny surge
Like
phase 1 Hades is basically a fancier Zagreus with a Hades Aspect
And less mobility because his joints creak when he dashes
open berry
i still dont see him copying boon effects even on a gameplay standpoint because you still have the narrative standpoint of copying effects means acknowledging them in some manner and that takes away from his characterization. maybe some similar effects but personally id rather have like. entirely new mechanics rather than rehashes of stuff i use myself
but that really depends on what the dev team is able to do
ive never really been one for "mirror" type of fights in games in general though, to be frank.
atomic forge
Boiling Blood, not Burning Blood.
So far all of Hades's mirrored qualities are all purely Zag/Chthonian.
gray jetty
wot is meant by EM Hades?
atomic forge
Extreme Measures.
thorny surge
rhino
do it for power armour asterius
gray jetty
I'm getting used to EM Hydra currently
silk carbon
if you can do EM hydra you can do EM theseus, imo
atomic forge
Eeehh.
They're difficult in different ways.
Though when Theseus starts carpetbombing the perimeter and Asterius opens with spinning2win, it's kinda like phase 3 EM Hydra.
gray jetty
no matter, I can't let down my only fan
vapid parcel
i love the supportive shade
thorny surge
Yeah
I wonder where they got the tapestry from though
vapid parcel
maybe they made it themselves 
dense sparrow
inferring: you do not pick artemis often
atomic forge
I actually pick her more frequently than others specifically to not make her mad.
Thanks, SGG, real funny.
dense sparrow
how many onions did you eat? 3?
atomic forge
limpid zinc
supple dagger
I'm super late after sending that message and then not popping in to see peep's answer to my question.
@atomic forge yeah, other than the four aspects. It's obvious that the Olympians/Chthonic gods wouldn't use the same weapons that are not resting in the Infernal Arms unless the game decided to pull something on Zagreus and have him fight weaponless or with an alternate weapon. For example, Zag still carries the previous aspect of Hades on the Spear despite Hades having an entirely different spear in the final boss fight.
I'd imagine Poseidon would use his current Trident spear, Athena could use her shield and only her shield as her primary weapon in combat, and Ares, I'd imagine, alternates between three swords/blades and three unique styles of fighting that made use of all three. Demeter, imo, would be interesting to actually see physically wield a scythe as her legendary boon sometimes animates when the boss reaches 10% HP.
For the Chthonic gods, I would LOVE to see Thanatos pull out her sword (as his sprite does show a hilt on his waist). I'd be shocked if Hypnos' weapon of choice wasn't necessarily a weapon but a variation of a harp or harp-like instrument that causes paralysis. And Chaos, if they ever decided to have a physical presence, could easily have Zagreus fight a variation of himself that's heavily influenced by the darkness of Chaos... or born of Erebus.
open berry
hypnos doesn't necessarily need an item at all, as a more passive god he's prob gifted with all those lovely status abilities at his fingertips
atomic forge
He has exactly one attack: Sleep, and it is completely unblockable.
dense sparrow
not really unblockable, only unblockable for characters that are Tier God and below
junior field
Hera used to call upon Hypnos to put Zeus to sleep
fathom current
What does Zag say when unlocking Guan Yu and Arthur again?
lunar kiln
"I see your kingly pardon from a prison of stone"
eternal breach
@atomic forge i got my first onion yesterday
atomic forge
Way to rub it in.
eternal breach
It was. The last enemy. That hit me.
atomic forge
Wait until something chips you at the very start and then you clear it without taking another hit.
eternal breach
In my defense it was a speedy benefits package witch and i had stygius
atomic forge
Stygian Witch?
atomic forge
No, Super Elite or just Tartarus?
eternal breach
Just tartarus m dude, im not a god in this game. XD
atomic forge
Sometimes Super Elite Witches will spawn in Tartarus Erebus gates.
atomic forge
Was it the Super Elite variant?
I'll take that as a no.
Super Elites can spawn in Tartarus Erebus, yes.
eternal breach
You mean like a splitter?
atomic forge
Yes.
eternal breach
OH GOD
atomic forge
Super Splitter.
eternal breach
Though idk why im surprised, i got a room full of flamewheels last time
atomic forge
Hey, if you've got Chain Shot...
lunar kiln
erebus can spawn enemies from anywhere
dense sparrow
i never go into those weird firey gate again after i failed the first one i go
lunar kiln
except from styx
dense sparrow
am i a coward?
atomic forge
But including the final boss.
eternal breach
Maybe
atomic forge
it's a red onion, he's allowed
atomic forge
Agreed.
junior field
eating raw onions 
thorny surge
Imagine being too weak to not be able to c o n s u m e a raw onion
nocturne sandal
how would you feel about a charon's well item that made the next chamber (if possible) to have a Trial of the gods
It could be the Apple of discord
gray jetty
I have mixed feelings about Trial rooms, some gods' attacks are absolutely insane and others are a complete doddle, and you can't get duo boons from Trial rooms, that's fine, but I'd like them better if they either only contained gods you already had boons for or only combinations of gods who have duo boons in common.
thorny surge
Yeah
Bloody hell, Ares’ trial is absolutely nuts
junior field
trial rooms do come with gods whose boons you have, and why would you want them to be gods that have duos with each other if you can't get those gods' duos from the trial?
thorny surge
Yeah, imo trials should be able to contain duos
junior field
and they can
thorny surge
Maybe have a third option where you suffer both trials at once to get their duo guaranteed
junior field
just not the duo of the battling gods
gray jetty
orly
thorny surge
ya rly
junior field
for example, if you're in a Zeus/Dem trial, you can still get Zeus/Ares or Dem/Dio duos, provided you meet the requirements
you just can't get the Zeus/Dem duo
thorny surge
Also is it me or does the lyre show more notes the more you play it?
dense sparrow
it does
thorny surge
Oh nice the sound changed
gray jetty
I wrote an ahk script to just spam E and left Zag there playing it for like half an hour, then after my next run, Orpheus had a dialogue option about it, did it again for another half hour, and I behold Zag was a pro!
gray jetty
龴ↀ◡ↀ龴
thorny surge
For shame
You need to ruin your fingers like the rest of us by pressing E two hundred times
May the wrath of Apollo fall upon you
junior field
modern problems require modern solutions
dense sparrow
tbh, i'd rather pay a slave (my brother) to continually press E, it requires far less brain
thorny surge
Nyx just ||bloody fired dusa||
That’s it night mom
You were best platonic girl but this is unacceptable
gray jetty
Nyx ships hard for Zag and Meg, can't have some floating head making googly eyes at the son of hades all day long. XD
thorny surge
Worst part is that i can’t hire her back because Nyx is away from the house 9/10 times i visit it
thorny surge
no
open berry
i mean, nyx is a primordial deity, and the way she's characterized doesnt really strike me as interested in a relationship with anyone
the biggest take away from their back and forth is that she's appreciative for his genuine interest in the chthonic gods, since the olympians as a whole disregard them (and its pointed out multiple times through the game's narrative that the olympians typically do not deal directly with chthonic gods if they can help it, zag just happens to be a special case).
ares, while not hated like in myth, is still considered a bit of an outcast among the olympians if you pay attention to how they talk about him, so for me it can kinda come off as ares wanting to know more because he related to be seen as... lesser, underneath the other gods in some way.
though its funny because zeus absolutely feared nyx. i know it was brought up earlier that hypnos was a bit of an agent to hera and put zeus to sleep twice, but hypnos got away with it because he'd run to nyx and zeus was not willing to anger her in any regard (but on the same token hypnos was unwilling to go after zeus that second time unless hera really made it worth his while rofl)
ares comes off really thirsty in the entire exchange though and it still comes off abrupt to me. i'll have to see it in 1.0 once everything is completed and see if the narrative flows better but either way im nah to that as a ship because nyx is clearly not interested in that manner
eternal breach
Ares was frankly not the god i expected to be thirsty
eternal breach
Thats smth else
vapid parcel
give
eternal breach
Zag gives me the vibe that he's the kind of person that will absolutely attempt to climb anything, especially if it's off limits
The very top of the House, with a huge danger of fall damage death but a chance to make your dad mad AND a nice view of Tartarus? Heck yea
(Hades keeps issuing orders to make the climb impossible following the burn marks on the walls but Zag keeps somehow finding new ways to get there)
thorny surge
Clearly poseidon is the thirstiest god
He rules the seas which means he’s got no actually drinkable water in his domain
The man probably hasn’t drank any water since the end of the Titanomachy
vapid parcel
bold of you to assume he doesn't believe seawater is the tastiest
cloud geode
... i like sea water. To drink. Not too much or my throat burns but i genuinly find it tasty
Sometimes the only thing keeping me from drinking some when i swim is the knowledge that someone could have pissed-
And i also like to eat salt in small quantity
open berry
re: ares https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/357344472880644118/705886408803352596/IMG_20200329_130809.jpg
cloud geode
here it is i was wondering where that photo was
open berry
discord had to think about it
oh wait
yes
lmao
i have a hypnos variant somewhere i just dont know where i saved it. know it exists somewhere
eternal breach
Nyx is way out of Ares' league
silk carbon
Sometimes the only thing keeping me from drinking some when i swim is the knowledge that someone could have pissed-
don't forget the tons of liters of whale semen. you're welcome
cloud geode
the what now-
eternal breach
Theres a whole load of other stuff in seawater
gray jetty
mostly whale semen though. :sagenod:
silk carbon
never got this hades pre-run talk: "nyx's sons are sleep and death. but you? i cannot think of anything. except the god of talking back to me"
that's kinda funny ngl
gray jetty
he's the god of stepping on rakes
silk carbon
as well as on lava
eternal breach
what alignments do others have
cloud geode
i don't play d&d so i'm probably not the best one that could answer lol
but idk dusa is lawful/neutral good? Bc she doesn't want to break the rules but she could if her friends' well being depends on it?
gray jetty
zomg I got this
Athena: Lawful Good
Hades: Lawful Neutral
Hermes: Chaotic Good
Dionysus: Chaotic Neutral
Ares: Lawful Evil
Demeter: Neutral Beeyatch
Poseidon: Chaotic Neutral
Artemis: Neutral Awesome
cloud geode
what are beeyatch and awesome? (btw the last is perfect 👌 )
gray jetty
awwwwwwwww
I may have inserted an obscenity into Theseus's alignment
let me rephrase
Theseus: Lawful Pompous
that works
silk carbon
it's missing zeus and aphro
also is beeyatch worse than bad? because demeter seems kinda bad
gray jetty
oh, Zeus is ahhh, Lawful Uncle and Aphrodite is Neutral Sexy
silk carbon
perfection 
cloud geode
o...omg i... i just realized now i'm so stupid-
I LEGIT SEARCHED IF THE BEEYATCH ALIGNMENT EXISTS IN D&D ON GOOGLE MY GOD
open berry
zeus
lawful
pick one
gray jetty
and
Zagreus: Chaotic Good
Charon: Neutral Aaauuuughhh....
Nyx: Neutral
Megaera: Chaotic Dominatrix
Alecto: Chaotic Snarky
Tisiphone: Chaotic Murderrrr...
Hypnos: Lawful Sleepy
Thanatos: Lawful Neutral
Chaos: Defies categorization
@cloud geode It exists, trust me
cloud geode
wait i didn't find it are you serious? 👀
also how do you separate vertically phrases if the enter key is for posting the message?
gray jetty
well i typed that into notepad and pasted
but
shift+enter will do the trick
if you're so inclined
cloud geode
hm
gasp
thank you ❤️
gray jetty
o7
supple dagger
It would be nice to see, at least, Athena and Ares in the house...
does Poseidon and Athena know about Dusa?
safe vortex
I gave Bouldy a nectar and got a 2% ambiguity bonus...what does that mean? 
junior field
it's a joke, doesn't do anything
safe vortex
but the other buffs I get from him do something, right?
junior field
yep
junior field
oh yeah, most of the time he gives something useful
thorny surge
He believes in you
Isn’t that enough of a bonus
safe vortex
😄
so I learned the lyre and I play really well now. It sounds really well and goes for several seconds before it ends. But before the progress was really fast, every run or second run Orpheus commented on my progress but now I am kinda stuck. Is it like always just do more runs?
Same with Sisyphus, I had good talks with Meg and Hades about alleviating his punishment and Hades told me to find his papers but nothing happened since then.
thorny surge
check the building dude
safe vortex
if you mean the renovator for work orders or the administrative chambers I always do check them hoping that in the latter I find the papers somehow but there are no points to interact with (except drink and the 2 drawers about my runs)
and with the papers I get a work order I have to buy
vapid parcel
you need to talk to nyx
and with the lyre: does it only play for a moment or like a real kick-butt melody?
safe vortex
a really nice melody and he comments "I can play". It is difficult to do the mashing buttons there because the melody is so long
before I used to play the lyre 10 times before every run
but now it is difficult to do that
yeah Nyx just fired Dusa so I guess I have to resolve that story line first 😄
gray jetty
did you complete the prophecy?
safe vortex
no not yet, so it is not a full song but around 4 seconds playing
funny enough I just got the propheyc 😄
silk carbon
wait, there's more once you get the prophecy?
it went from terrible>chords>melody, is there another level?
safe vortex
no but I was at melody and never got the prophecy fulfilled. Took me a long time till finally Orpheus talked to me about it
mossy stone
is it just me or the short burst upgrade for the gun is broken
like it will fire a second shot way faster than it should
mossy stone
i guess it is fine, i killed hades anyway
safe vortex
it is really strong
faint quiver
hi I'm curious as to why there is no mention of Hera in-game? I've only played around 16 hours of the game and have 1 successful run with 30-odd attempts, is this due to the game still being in early access and the developers haven't written her in yet or is there a reason within the story
open berry
not all parts of the pantheon are relevant to the story around zagreus
if you're expecting everyone to show up, be referenced, ect, dont.
because thats not the story thats being told
last we've heard here is one more character to introduce before 1.0 and the assumption is that it will be another house or biome npc. the reason we dont think its an olympian is bc when they added olympians, they were referred to specifically as a new olympian being added, but this one is just vaguely mentioned as a character
faint quiver
Oh okay that makes sense, considering olympians such as Apollo, Hephaestus, Hestia, Iris, and some others haven't been mentioned either
open berry
hestia and hephaestus are mentioned offhandedly, but its easy to miss. also it may be hard to skim through all the questions in #ask-supergiant (i honestly recommend just doing a channel specific search from anyone in the supergiant role that way you can actually find the answers given and not have to scroll through the rest of the server asking stuff) but greg makes a mention in regards to the story and why a less known god like demeter was chosen over a popular god like apollo, purely because hes not as relevant to the story they want to tell
faint quiver
oh oaky I'll check that out, sorry if my question was repetitive then
open berry
a lot of people ask why x god isnt included but the simplest answer i guess is that the more gods that get added, the more it takes away from zagreus and his escape story. the olympians are only meant to be secondary characters
faint quiver
fair enough, that makes sense
thorny surge
yeah, afaik there's references to Hestia if you use exagryph
fathom hill
has anyone figured out who hired skelly? My current theory is that it was hades, who secretly wants zag to succeed (tough love route)
dusk acorn
it's actually thanatos
open berry
theres been a lot of theories but theres no hard evidence in the game at this point to suggest anything
cloud geode
Maybe it will be one of those mysteries that never get solved as a joke but idk doubt it
nocturne sandal
Lol Asterius just got mad at Theseus because i was wearing the yarn of Ariadne and theseus mentioned she meant nothing to him anymore
cloud geode
He drinks respect women juice;
boys, girls, anything, doesn't matter, he gladly eats everyone
thorny surge
yeah he'll absolutely eat everyone
asterius is a true egalitarian at heart
open berry
had me in the first half 😩
shy nimbus
Oooh, man! I absolutely love this https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/gcpc3r/i_did_some_sketches_of_apollo_and_hephaestus/
Except for the fact that Apollo can't be the God of The Sun when we already have Helios to be confirmed as "The Sun" by Demeter in this game
cloud geode
"God tier"
Me, who never really recovered from Homestuck: 
cloud geode
No Apollo was so awesome the romans kept his name
shy nimbus
Helios and Selene are like the Titans version of God of the Sun and Moon
open berry
Apollo represents the sun, Helios was the sun personified
thorny surge
in all seriousness they're basically the same god past a certain point, apollo helios is one of apollo's old epithets
open berry
By the same token artemis was also seen to represent the moon
shy nimbus
Apollo and Artemis are like their successors for the Olympians
thorny surge
i think the identification between Helios and Apollo happened earlier in greece than in rome but i could be wrong about that one
shy nimbus
Just like how Zues became the ruler of the Sky and Heaven, while his grandfather Uranus is the sky himself
cloud geode
Apollo can be the god of medicine or art/music, they're the other important things aside from the sun
thorny surge
yeah, apollo has a complicated portfolio to say the least
shy nimbus
Truth, Apollo's so awesome that he became the most versatile god of the Olympians
(Hermes must be jealous hehehe)
thorny surge
hey, hermes got a plenty weird portfolio himself
he's no slouch when compared to his relative apollo lol
fickle comet
We already have Daedalus to represent craft, so Hephaestus wouldn't add anything new to the game. It would make more sense to have Daedalus show up as a character.
shy nimbus
Well, Hermes has the last laugh thou. His massive "brand appeal" stays relevant until this day and age.
thorny surge
if they put Hephaestus in they'll probably put him as a fire god rather than as a craftsmen but i don't think there are any plans for that
shy nimbus
But Apollo would always be the first to say "I have the range!" when it comes to powers and influences
(Guess which one is the god people pray to during plagues and pandemic 
)
cloud geode
Off topic but i just found out an alternative version of Orpheus' death where the maenads killed because he... started seducing all of their men in spite of losing his wife.
I just wanted to see if he was related to Apollo but oh well nice information anyway
open berry
Ah yes apollo the well rounded god https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/357344472880644118/706556567906156584/Screenshot_20200503-122250.jpg
thorny surge
i don't remember orpheus being related to apollo other than his gift with the harp
i mean he is said to be the son of apollo in some versions
cloud geode
like father like son it is then
open berry
This is why greek myth is free real estate to play around in, there isn't any one "canon" or anything
cloud geode
yeah and sometimes it's funny because of it
thorny surge
i like the version where he's just some dude's son whom apollo just taught to play one fine day
shy nimbus
Hold on, is it Hermes who invented the harp and then gave it to Apollo?
thorny surge
yes
cloud geode
Like that one time i found this version of achilles' death where he was escaping from Apollo, the piece of the giant's foot that made him fast fell off and Apollo reached him and killed him LMAO
thorny surge
according to some myths anyway
shy nimbus
Damn, they (Hermes and Apollo) are really trying to one up each other right from Hermes' birth, aren't they?
Now I think about it more, guess whose staff is often mistaken to be the symbol of medicine? 🤭 🤭 🤭
Hermes must have pull some trickeries for that to happen honestly.
thorny surge
no, not really, afaik hermes just deadass gave apollo the lyre when he invented it
cloud geode
The bit where he stole Apollo's cattle just screams little sibling to me
thorny surge
plus afaik apollo deadass gave him the caduceus so it's more probably a case of it mixing than anything else
shy nimbus
"You might be the God of Music, but it's me who invented the lyre, my dear", said Hermes who trolls Apollo in every family social event
thorny surge
apollo is not entirely unrelated to snake imagery either, and both hermes and asclepius are related to apollo via myths in some way or another so it might just be a case of hermes getting some symbology from another god or something similar to make him fit in more
cloud geode
You thought it was you but it was me, Hermes!
thorny surge
i think i'm entirely wrong with the symbol assimilation but anyway
open berry
just want hermes and loki to meet and be buds 😔
thorny surge
both characters are associated to apollo in some way or another so it's not weird to guess where the symbolism may have come from
shy nimbus
"Here, choose this one. It's much fancier and has wings! And 2 snakes!" said Hermes when he whispers that idea into the mortals who's in charge of the marketing and branding
thorny surge
even if the snakes in both cases probably have different origins and meanings
shy nimbus
But then again, I wish we can have Apollo in this game to be Artemis' little brother/twin.
But now that Helios is confirmed, I'm sad that we might not have Apollo, too
😔
thorny surge
i mean they were generally considered separate entities up to a certain point later on and apollo was the one that absorbed helios and not the other way around, so it's not impossible
even then they could just pull a different names for the same entity like kore/persephone
cloud geode
ARTEMIS 👏 AND 👏 APOLLO 👏 DUO 👏 BOON 👏
shy nimbus
Or just have him as "God of Music/Healing" or sth
thorny surge
he'd still have a lot of overlap with other gods if he was in unless you went with healing, poison or the arts since artemis is already hunt themed and athena is light themed because uh
reasons i guess
shy nimbus
ARTEMIS 👏 AND 👏 APOLLO 👏 DUO 👏 BOON 👏
@shy nimbus
@cloud geode DUO LEGENDARY BOON! +3 Casts and 100% dmg! (or sth)
Athena is more like "Reflection" to me as this point
atomic forge
Wait, where is the confirmation Helios is coming to Hades?
cloud geode
Defense even
atomic forge
Because I was under the impression we were not getting any more gameplay Olympians.
thorny surge
mechanics-wise she is all about reflection but a lot of her boons are light themed
dunno why
atomic forge
They all existed prior to Demeter's introduction.
They just haven't been name-dropped yet.
shy nimbus
Obviously they are being saved (to be introduced later... according to my ~~French ~~ Greek latte fantasy)
atomic forge
We're getting one more full character (almost certainly Persephone), according to the Next Major Update button in Hades.
shy nimbus
Wait, I thought it would be Charon's official artwork
atomic forge
Charon is already a character in-game.
shy nimbus
Persephone is in the final 1.0 update, right? Which is coming after this June update?
atomic forge
We don't know what exactly is going to be in 1.0.
I think the full and complete ending will only ship with 1.0, including the fallout of (presumably) finding Persephone.
But she may make an appearance before then, but my point is that we're not seeing any more Olympians, Apollo is at best getting a namedrop at this point.
I could also eat my words in a month and they could expand the roster
shy nimbus
But she may make an appearance before then, but my point is that we're not seeing any more Olympians, Apollo is at best getting a namedrop at this point.
@atomic forge 😭
How many coins do I need to send to the developers to have a full Olympian Pantheon DLCs?
open berry
remember before demeter released, she was teased specifically as a new olympian, now we only have a new character, so its almost certainly not an olympian
atomic forge
However much their wages + dev costs would take to cover DLC for four more Olympians, probably.
Like, at least 1000 obols.
shy nimbus
I honestly can't care less about Hera (or Hestia, sorry sis). It's only Apollo that I'm looking forward to. (Who else is still missing again?) <---my point
atomic forge
Hephaestus.
atomic forge
Hera has an Aspect, same that Hestia gets.
thorny surge
oh yeah i meant as characters
open berry
sgg has never said theyre going to eventually add the whole pantheon, even post launch. that was never the intent
think we're getting too caught up in the who we'd like to see and forgetting that these characters must remain secondary, because the focus is zagreus
shy nimbus
True. Some of them are not really relevant to the story they are trying to tell. So I'm good without Hera or Hestia
thorny surge
yeah, don't think they'd release the whole pantheon even if because the greek pantheon is wider than it looks unless you disregard everyone that isn't an olympian
plus i don't think there's enough possible mechanics to even fully introduce all the olympians via boons
open berry
you'd probably get to a point where adding in too many new mechanics needlessly complicates the game
shy nimbus
If the obstacle is just having to design (and code) another god boon progression trees and stuffs, Apollo can be introduced to be like a challenge room god kinda thing. I honestly just wish for him to be a character/NPC at most in the game. Having Artemis without her twin is kinda... missing to me.
atomic forge
Okay, this idea's been kicking around in my head for a while now so might as well drop it here now: I really want a third Aspect-specific Hammer in Styx. Three options only, so you know what you get and there's no RNG with it, just a "Well done for getting this far, now go kick your dad's ass."
The hammer could be made by Hephaestus, and my first idea was for Hestia.
shy nimbus
I really missed the third hammer in Styx 😔
I have a certain fixation on certain hammer build that I always try to build while playing bow. But too bad the new Fate cannot change the hammer options , so i often just "give up" to reset the run at that point
thorny surge
i mean you can get hammers in styx, but you gotta actively ignore one of the previous ones in order for it to happen
shy nimbus
No, not that! we meant a 3rd hammer upgrade!
open berry
the third upgrade that wasnt meant to be there in the first place
lunar kiln
^
open berry
if its intended it would still be available ¯_(ツ)_/¯
though i personally dont see why it was a problem but apparently the devs did
lunar kiln
ultimately they decided not to have a 3rd hammer there
open berry
maybe some sort of balance reason
lunar kiln
yeah
open berry
explain it away as hades personally made sure it was tossed out into the underworld somewhere so zag couldnt have it 😔
thorny surge
hades tosses down the hammer
it falls down all the way to tartarus
”oh hey, a hammer at the start of a run, nice”
open berry
jksdhgskg its like that comic with the kid rescuing a ladys cat but he grabs it from another comic panel
this but applied to the disappearance of the third hammer https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0h3SqfX4AAU7Cd.jpg:large
runic terrace
omg
open berry
so i did this who you would be in a fantasy society quiz for laughs and the result i got gave me such a laughing fit bc it was relatable but also its really just than so i had to edit him in https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXHcZPLWkAU0-sv?format=jpg&name=large
eternal breach
Oh my god
atomic forge
...You know in 2000 years Zag and Hypnos will be sending Than dumb memes.
eternal breach
Counterpoint, schpoon: humans have always [bleep]posted
They send him memes now
Just on scrolls
atomic forge
Ooh, yeah.
eternal breach
Thanatos: oh god a message from Zagreus. I better open this; it could be very important
The message: if cerberus could wear pants, would he wear them like this or like this
I wanted to say that zag ruins Thanatos' life with puns but i got a better idea of
Thanatos' jokes and puns are very far in between and rarer than a chaos fish but when they do drop theyre so bad zag gets obliterated
thorny surge
humans have always funposted indeed
have you seen roman graffities
those things are great
eternal breach
AND some rune writings
Like the one etched on a cliff
They spent ages trying to translate it
And then they got 'this is very high up'
runic terrace
hfvhjfvhjfvhjfvhjf love it
eternal breach
Thanatos, picking up Zagreus' barely conscious body after he got stomped: huh. Guess you're... dead weight. hehehehehehhehehehehee
Zagreus: just dump me in the river than
open berry
hypnos already makes puns and bad jokes why is he not the pun master here
open berry
my level of exasperation early in the game when i came back from a meg thrashing, only to be told by hypnos, wow you got whipped! get it? because she beat you and also that whip shes always threatening me with? i ascended to another plane of existence
eternal breach
Hyhshdif
hollow mortar
I can only imagine how many times Greg chuckled while recording that
thorny surge
i honestly wanted to punch Hypnos on the face at first but i'll admit he's started to grow on me
atomic forge
Don't look at me, I know that Hypnos is the source of the humor, Zag just trolls Than more frequently/intentionally.
Hypnos straddles that perfect line that I strive for where he's 100% sincere and wholesome but also 100% ripping whoever he's talking to a new one.
He looks Hades in the eye and sincerely hopes his advice about not standing in the Festive Fog (read: fire) is taken and that Hades learns, but he also wants Hades to know that he fell to a beginner MMO trap.
open berry
i cant trust anyone that doesnt like hypnos, thems the rules 😔
eternal breach
WHY HAVENT I THOUGHT ABOUT HYPNOS GIVING HADES ADVICE
open berry
bc hades can punish him
thorny surge
hypnos is probably smart enough to not do that
probably
open berry
funnily this p much happens with zag and em theseus, zag is like, your strategy might work better if you didnt shout it loud enough for me to hear
eternal breach
Zag no no accidental fourth wall breaks
open berry
i mean theseus is loud
thorny surge
very
atomic forge
Who here has played Tales of Symphonia?
open berry
once upon a gamecube i may have
atomic forge
Remember how Raine had the obsession with ruins and early in the game if she were in ruins and off-screen her cackles could be heard from behind doors?
open berry
oh my god
atomic forge
That, but with Theseus, the Macedonian, and random Exalted shades throughout Elysium.
open berry
thats honestly terrifying
thorny surge
i have a friend who is trying to play tales of symphonia but his game keeps crashing
i've been seeing constant steam popups from him for the last half an hour
thorny surge
actually speaking of which does anyone know how to fix it
the game worked for him until today
atomic forge
Was a 60 FPS fix ever found/made? Because PS3/PC is the only way to get the additional content in English but it's locked to 30 FPS.
open berry
uhh could not tell you, i bought it on sale on steam years ago and only played like an hour into it because adult me has far less patience for the slow beginning than kid me did
better off googling around
atomic forge
Cool, thanks.
thorny surge
oh yeah, we already tried troubleshooting
i'm asking because so far literally nothing worked
well that blows
thanks for the help either way
open berry
before I sleep, to get this channel sorta back on topic, I leave this reference https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/357344472880644118/706760318675583038/IMG_20200504_015255.jpg
runic terrace
the jares
gusty crag
I just did all the new Aphrodite hearts, was there nothing new with her other than the dialogue? and how do I unlock the artemis heart? help me for I am dumb
eternal breach
With artemis you legit just talk to her
eternal breach
Always
dense sparrow
why is everyone here a worshipper of artemis
gusty crag
She's too cute man
thorny surge
She’s really passive aggressive when you don’t choose her though
gusty crag
i can relate to that
she can do no wrong
I am at an impasse though
should i take the ambrosia back from dusa
or are there negative consequences
lone hamlet
no, I think
gusty crag
I still probably wont because i will feel bad but still
violet jacinth
hey guys for aspect of Arthur. must i spend 3 blood to unlock aspect of guan yu first?
thorny surge
Afaik Arthur ought to require Guan Yu, aye
violet jacinth
i take that as a yes?
fresh bough
I dunno
all I know is you prob need to do Skelly's quest to kill him
it unlocked for me after that
vapid parcel
no i don't think you need skelly's quest? you need to talk to achilles and nyx for the new aspects iirc
thorny surge
Yeah, Nyx’s excalibur convo requires having five titan bloods slapped into the sword and i think guan yu but i don’t remember if that was a hard requirement or you just needed the convo about Guan Yu
The only bit where it relates to skelly is that you can put them all in Zag’s aspect to fulfill skelly’s sidequest while you’re at it
atomic forge
Does anyone know what the heat requirements for the first 2 Skelly statues are? I don't know since I earned them before they reworked heat.
thorny surge
The wot
flat shell
8 and 16.
gusty crag
Wait since a bond was formed with Artemis is that all we are getting for the full release?
thorny surge
for Artemis? maybe unless they sneak in the ability to romance olympians which seems unlikely
gusty crag
Suffering
I didn’t realize I was trying for that locked heart for two hours for one interaction
lunar kiln
wrong channel oops
open berry
straight up confirmed back in march there are no further romance options beyond what's already in the game
@runic terrace don't u turn ares trauma into a pun 😭
runic terrace
sorry i didnt realize 😭 i thoought u wre joking on the blood vial??
what happened to him...
open berry
GJSJVKSND I MEAN I WAS INDEED TALKING ABOUT SGG ARES but also it was a reference to his 13 month imprisonment in a jar by the aloadae
runic terrace
THE WHAT.... OK THAT I DIDNT KNO
open berry
considering it would have meant his death if he hadn't been found, I like to think he came out of that Not Fine 🤧 he was severely weakened as it is by the time hermes found him. So I just. looks at sgg ares. you are now traumatized by small spaces and have claustrophobia
runic terrace
oh no.......
open berry
"Ares had to endure it when strong Ephialtes and Otos, sons of Aloeus, chained him in bonds that were too strong for him, and three months and ten he lay chained in the brazen cauldron; had not Eeriboia (Eriboea), their stepmother, the surpassingly lovely, brought word to Hermes, who stole Ares away out of it, as he was growing faint and the hard bondage was breaking him."
🥺 🥺 🥺
but yes enjoy the ares angst fuel
thorny surge
sad
i can't believe we won't get to romance the hydra or steal eurydice from the emo singer
asphodel romance patch never
runic terrace
live ur dreams...make ur own fanwork
i absolutely would b down to read someone explore how zag would try and fit himself into orphridice dynamics and how like....WEIRD and fraught and awkward it would be and what theyd all get from each other. i would totally read that
silk carbon
those are overrated, i wanted to steal the gorgon head miniboss from the skull crusher
runic terrace
why steal them away....have an open discussion when theyre all not trying to kill each other
gnuinely just be the change u want to see tho
violet jacinth
just curious anyone here unlocked excaliber without putting blood into guan yu?
violet jacinth
is says u need guan yu unlocked idk if that means u have to put blood in it
open berry
unlocking is not the same as investing blood
unlocking means you have it available to use, nothing more
open berry
just have at minimum 5 blood put into the sword, any aspect
thorny surge
i'm sorry, but i am morally, spiritually and religiously against fanfics so i can't write one
vapid parcel
wow that sounds like a sad life man...
shy nimbus
With Guan Yu, I don't even need to invest anything into the Spear.
Just talk to Achilles and he just gave the words to me. Still haven't put a single Titan Blood into it.
runic terrace
wow thats sad duwang..... 😔
violet jacinth
alright thanks @shy nimbus and @open berry
thorny surge
yeah, excalibur is one of the best aspects
especially if you manage to grab hermes' attack speed boons
thorny surge
so, seeing how hades' relationship seems to be locked for the time being, what do you guys think it'll be about?
will it require having beaten more than a single run or doing a prophecy, or reaching a specific relationship level with Persephone if she becomes an NPC proper?
dusk acorn
bluh. I figure him just increasingly not caring about the ever increasing number of gifts from Zag :p
open berry
i highly doubt hades will be giftable on the same level everyone else is
wouldnt make any sense, given the tension between them that spans the entirety of the game
maybe a few gifts, at max
manic yoke
I mean that would be a great ending arc.
Fixing your relationship with your father would be cool
silk carbon
it'd be nice, but again, it's greek mythology
it's easier for them to say zag ate hades with ambrosia
dusk acorn
also hades is kind of at best cold and distant from people he likes
he and probably barely even say any words at all to each other other than when he gets a bit delayed helping zag
open berry
not every relationship needs to be "fixed" by zag or the player. it frankly would go against the already established characterization set up with hades for you to find a full resolution to the tension between him and zagreus.
coming to an understanding of sorts would be more believable than fixing the relationship
sometimes, not everything can be fixed.
junior field
an amicable resolution basically is a fix
open berry
okay let me be more specific. i dont think there could be a resolution that could remove all of the tension between hades and zag
even if they went that direction it would have to be handled carefully to be believable, otherwise it would feel shoehorned in for the sake of having it
zag has had tension with his father even prior to the events of the game, before finding out about his mother. i simply do not see a resolution that removes that tension
further edit; that is not to say that there wont be something in regard to their relationship by the end of the game. i think its a given that something will happen. but again, the tension between them predates the events of the game. you dont just "fix" that, i cant see both of them willing to meet the other in the middle and fully resolve things
jagged goblet
I don't get it, I have at least 20 clears now with no more dialogue options with Sisyphus, and still I can't get the Hedes/Nyx contract dialogue so I can release him and get my pet...anyone got a clue for other pre-reqs?
gusty crag
You need to buy the book of small prophecy’s or whatever it’s called from the contractor first
It’s minor prophecy’s actually
jagged goblet
I've got that book ofc
vapid parcel
there might be other quests blocking you, what is nyx currently talking about?
and have you maxed your bond with sisyphus as far as you're able to?
mint kestrel
When does Megaera’s romance scene appear?
vapid parcel
if you maxed the bond it has a sort of random chance
jagged goblet
@vapid parcel - I have everyone capped except some ambrosia for extra dialogues, waiting to max all pets before I do those. So yes, Sisy is capped.
Nyx is done talking, both about Medusa and Nyx's parents or mine.
I've done some talks with Hades about Demeter...no one has any more dialogues for me.
vapid parcel
hmmm then i have no idea tbh? i know you have to talk to than at one point tho iirc?
pretty sure at least
jagged goblet
I really dunno if I managed to bug it out...I had one chat with Hades a long time ago about Sisy and I think I reloaded the game without saving and never saw that chat again.
vapid parcel
hmm weird? tho keep in mind its random so it might appear
i had really weird luck with than's romance? i did like twenty runs without him showing up and started another save. then i went back and after the next run he was in my room 
jagged goblet
Speaking of Than, if you push past the arrow mark on his codex entry...does it have to go romantic? I'm not into the gay-tionship, sadly, but would love to have it all completed.
vapid parcel
no you can always choose friendship
earnest phoenix
I want it to be no homo but also I do want it to be homo xD
Im still holding it back ;P
cloud geode
Even if you do the do it's not homo if you say it isn't 👀
dense sparrow
what do you mean by homo? human in latin?
thorny surge
yes
they are rejecting their humanity ||JOJO||
runic terrace
hey, please refrain from saying homophobic things
dense sparrow
fear of humans, or is it something else?
runic terrace
homo(sexuality)=gay ppl
dense sparrow
okay thanks
runic terrace
sure np!
cloud geode
hey, please refrain from saying homophobic things
@runic terrace wait was what i said bad? I didn't mean to sound homophobic if i did, it's just the meme because bready didn't know what thanatos route to take-
runic terrace
oh no not you! yeah, i caught that you were memeing its fine
i was reffering to duwang's "they are rejecting their humanity"
cloud geode
i reject my humanity is also a (jojo) meme, maybe it was about the rejecting the fact that we're actually homo by saying no homo tho but idk thanks anyway i was terrified about me sounding homophobic when it's one of the things that pisses me off more aah
runic terrace
maybe i simply dont know jojo enough for that, i sure hope it was intended that way, and thank you for explaining if it was!
aahhhhhh sorry to give you a moment of screaming 😱
cloud geode
don't worry and you're welcome c:
thorny surge
It was a jojo reference, aye
At some point some lad yells that when slapping a stone mask in their face to turn into a vampire
It makes more sense in context
The joke in and of itself was a reference to shrew saying homo = human in latin above
Aaand now that i explained it the joke is no longer funny
runic terrace
i think as long as u didnt mean it as (gay ppl) are rejecting humanity then we're good even if u kiled ur joke 
midnight current
a common understanding that we r not bad ppl > a funny joke
cloud geode
Does a joke even die as long as you remember how funny it was 🤔
thorny surge
No, as stated i did not mean it that way
open berry
@jagged goblet platonic is an option for both meg and than, and I think it may still count for aphrodite if you hypothetically backed off on both, I'd need to look further into that. But that aside, yeah it's an option, just be forewarned that the way the dialogue is set up, there's really no special conversations that happen when you back off, like you would get from pursuing it. everything really is built up with the romantic option in mind, backing off just leaves you with 'oh okay see you then' and that's really about it, so if you were hoping to see any further dialogue from the platonic side, there isn't any
mint girder
I don't think Aphro is actually a "Romanic Option"? It's just her doing her usual horny teasing thing, which is, well, fitting for her.
Maybe I haven't unlocked enough of her dialogue yet
open berry
You misunderstood what I was referring to
open berry
unlocking the heart on aphrodites affection requires getting close to dust and meg and/or than
Dusa even thank you phone
mint girder
I feel bad for Than. You can romance your ex, the waifu maid, or the guy that makes any chamber he shows up in 2x harder
open berry
I haven't really looked into whether backing off on both meg and than would still count on unlocking the heart, which is what I meant there
mint girder
but hey he's nice to look at
open berry
that's subjective lmao I kinda find that front facing portrait a bit jarring
mint girder
tbh I find the idea of the meg romance hilarious. Yes Zag, go try to get back with your murder-stabby ex
that'll go great
open berry
their convos later in the affection chain are pretty good honestly. you can see the tension between then but meg acknowledges that while she may not be ready, zag is making a legitimate effort to make things sorta right between them
It's not like they actually hate each other
mint girder
huh, nice
maybe I'll throw a couple more ambrosias at her and see that. I just cracked up when I realized I could get with her again and left her alone after getting her plushie
open berry
the biggest thing between them for the longest while is the whole 'your father is my employer and he's punishing me for your foolishness'
mint girder
awkward..........
junior field
@open berry you do get the hearts, boning has no effect on that.
open berry
how eloquently put lmao. i mean i figured because the only requirement is the extended affection, not the necessarily the result, but i like to be sure
but i cant test it either way bc im affected by aphrodite being broke
thorny surge
That’s why don’t date the murder-stabby ex
We date her superior sister, Tisiphone
open berry
how is that better, youre just constantly accused of murder 🤧
thorny surge
It’s a misunderstanding i’m sure she’s a great person once you get past the constant murder accusations and wailing
junior field
just put a bag on her head
she's like a parrot: if she can't see you, she won't scream MUUUUUURDEEEER
thorny surge
put a cloth over her head
she falls asleep
Someone tell me why we haven’t done that yet on her boss fight
junior field
cause the other sisters keep waking her up
so you see, the murder she constantly screams about is that of her sleep schedule
thorny surge
No wonder she looks like that and she’s always cranky
Poor lass can’t get her beauty sleep
mystic mortar
the final boss will be the old man
he executes you every time you enter his room at the moment, but you'll be able to see/ fight him in v1.0
thorny surge
you can already fight hades though
you just can't get past Styx because that bit of the game isn't in yet
but story-wise we've already beaten him
mystic mortar
It was meant as a joke
It's funnier to imagine it as the storyteller reaching out and killing you when you escape instead of just a game mechanic to compensate for the game not being finished
mystic mortar
yeah, it would also explain zag's surprise and distress when you try to leave.
"what - ?!"
dies
eternal breach
Narrator: vibe check
whole path
My favorite exchange between Zag and Meg is the very modern, real world argument where you find out that he called it off because she tried to kill him for leaving, and she's like "You can't ask me to give up my career for you."
atomic forge
@hollow mortar Okay, but will we get a Shepard/Normandy reference in regards to the fishtank?
hollow mortar
Seeing how Caitlyn has been streaming Mass Effect lately, it'd be funny
Zagreus can request Skelly to feed the fish after their bond has been maxed
Feels bad when using Aspect of Chaos's special and Than be like "Not me, idiot" 
kindred bane
so, the romance scene with dusa just never happened for me
is that a bug, or do I have to wait?
atomic forge
Than shouldn't standfloat in the way.
mint girder
Ares I am begging you please stop trying to get Zag to hook you up with his surrogate mom it's so weird
do it yourself
open berry
i pretend i do not see it
hollow mortar
But it's cute
open berry
at least ares is the only olympian willing to learn about chthonic gods
drifting citrus
tbf look what happened to persephone
merry sorrel
we are in a bad place without spring, but would it so bad to be without war?
stark tulip
Hey, anybody have any suggestions for zag quotes you might get while fishing? (outside of the in game ones)
merry sorrel
like, fan quotes?
stark tulip
yeah! I’m updating a bot and wanted to add a bunch more
runic terrace
'i could make a knucklehead sandwich out of this'
stark tulip
FFHFVH
stark tulip
chlama-Lama-ding-dong is DEF going in there
stark tulip
OH NOOOOOOO I COULD MAKE THEM ALL BAD FISH PUNS
open berry
you just gave kam too much power
hollow mortar
They have a knack for this, it seems
atomic forge
"Scuffer? I barely even know her!"
lunar ibex
Amateur jelly would have landed better
"Hellfish? He'll better fish until he brings back enough for dinner!"
"You want a Scyllascion? You better find some other window to mope near!"
"Chlam? You know it's normally spelled clam, right?"
stark tulip
awesome! 👍
mint girder
sometimes when I take damage, I get a temporary invuln. But I'm not using the spear keepsake nor do I have athena legendary. Is this a story thing
lunar kiln
when you take too much damage at once you get a brief immunity to help you recover
mint girder
huhhhh, maybe it's been popping up now that I'm pushing 80% in bonus damage heat
lunar kiln
hell mode removes that immunity
runic terrace
I JUST WANNA SAY DUSA JUST GOT REHIRED FOR ME..... ;W;
lunar kiln
the dusa-gets-fired plot but instead of her coming back after 2-3 runs you have to keep talking to nyx about everything and nothing for ages
thorny surge
yeah, i got her re-hired today too
in that note, Nyx gets back to best platonic girl but only barely since she outright fired Dusa instead of telling her to calm down and have a nice, long chat about what she was doing wrong
open berry
if gods knew how to properly communicate, half of greek mythology just straight up wouldnt even exist
silk carbon
if people knew how to properly communicate, half of the world's problems wouldn't even exist 😔
open berry
yeah, if we cant expect people to communicate properly idk why we expect immortal gods to lmao
thorny surge
i mean they're way older than us they should theoretically be wiser
silk carbon
if the quarantine has taught us something is that older does not necessarily mean wiser
open berry
but you're still placing human expectations upon entities that could never relate to human emotions on the same level
if it took quarantine for people to figure out age was not any inherent indication of wisdom, i honestly dont know what to say 😂
bold niche
unfortunately, sometimes only some kind of disaster can remind people some basic things
like, war reminds that hatred leads nowhere
thorny surge
not really, even with covid happening people can't remember basic things like common decency
and war doesn't always help with that either, ww1's direct consequences led to an even bigger one
bold niche
yeah, people are different.. some are smart, some.. good in something else..
sometimes wrong lessons are learned.. people create biodegradable bullets
and gods represent nature events and human patterns of behavior
merry sorrel
do you want to continue this in off-topic
merry sorrel
it's true that humans do not relate to human emotions on the same level, but at the same time the greek gods can be very human in their emotion range
bold niche
well.. some tend to treat non-equals very poorly.. and Dusa is not equal to gods and other deities
unfortunately
also.. since Nyx is older than most of characters, she can have sort of outdated vision of how to treat others.. and that can explain why she's done that to Dusa
merry sorrel
it must be difficult for a god to change their views
humans have a quicker way where the children are likely to adopt opposite views as their parents, so we get new-ish views with every new generation
here the demigods die while trying to play hero, and gods are rarely changing
junior field
gods flip flop all the time
they're fickle as hell, dude
Athena cursed Medusa, basically created her, and then aided Perseus in his quest to slay her
merry sorrel
to kill a pregnant medusa, no less
manic yoke
Are we allowed to talk about data mining in here?
I found an interesting file that hints as some gameplay content
hollow mortar
@odd pawn You will get access to the Administrative Chamber through the Contractor via a contract. It will cost you some diamonds, if I remember correctly.
atomic forge
@austere crane I like the idea that Zagreus is growing stronger in his own right, and the Mirror does reflect that (he always has at least 1 Bloodstone, 1 Dash) but there's also no small amount of new powers the Mirror provides outright, like Boiling/Abyssal Blood and Death Defiances, and I think the new powers significantly outweigh the empowered, uh, powers.
austere crane
Hades uses boiling blood against us specifically. Death defiances could also be a subset of Zagreus’ possible status as god of blood.
junior field
you could argue that Hades' 2nd phase is his DD popping
austere crane
Oh huh interesting thought
junior field
Zag is his father's son, after all
austere crane
But the fight against hades was what inspired me to write that; Hades has boiling blood, multiple casts, multiple dashes, possibly a death defiance etc
atomic forge
Would it split the difference for you if this is still early-game dialogue and once we've seen the "true" ending once or twice there's a "Yeah, I've just been unlocking your powerset early, not giving you new stuff" conversation with Nyx?
Because that's what I'm thinking of now.
hollow mortar
And a multi angled Crystal Shot
atomic forge
See, now I'm feeling real dumb because I've lost count of the number of times I've said "Guys, it's Boiling Blood, Hades isn't really throwing out anything here you haven't seen before."
And then I say it's evidence of Nyx's power.
junior field
I'm of the opinion that the mirror doesn't so much empower as it reveals the true strength, allowing one full access to their peak potential self
austere crane
Oh absolutely, I kind of see the mirror as steroids for Zagreus
junior field
aka, future Zag
atomic forge
reference to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber or bust
drifting citrus
EM hades who does both boiling and abyssal blood with his cast
junior field
that's not how the time chamber worked though
drifting citrus
now you get to be slow and take double damage
junior field
it just crushed people without beating them to a pulp
atomic forge
Close enough, let me have this.
austere crane
The Hyperbolic Time Chamber was a roguelite with meta progression
junior field
no 
atomic forge
Now they just need to make a Dragon Ball game with good combat and action RPG elements again. Haven't had one of those in years.
atomic forge
I'm thinking Buu's Fury and Sagas, but we're starting to get off-topic.
odd pawn
I like how one of the discussions with Achilles ends up ||making a reference to his girlfriend.||
Nice touch, Supergiant.
vapid parcel
in what convo does he say that, i'm drawing a blank xD
open berry
what are you on https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/357344472880644118/707845665975304212/20200125222939_1.jpg
open berry
possibly but after the bff comment im side-eying
open berry
idk how much more blatant 'i loved him with all my heart' can be
vapid parcel
ahhshdhd
open berry
even discounting sgg's take here and stuff like song of achilles theres just. all sorts of little bits in varying interpretations that make you go 'hmm' bc its trying to insist theyre were just bros while at the same time being weirdly contradictive lmao like one off the top of my head refers to pat as his beloved friend but then turns around with a dramatic grief stricken achilles declaring he will kill the destroyer of him i loved, and then going back to oh he was put in the same urn as his friend patroclus! like. pick a narrative lol
vapid parcel
i mean, it has been a big discussion ever since the illiad was written
many philosophers wrote and argued about it
but you can def interpret it as romantic and not be far off
i think it was aristotele who'd be in your corner but i'm not sure xD
open berry
oh of course its been an endless topic of debate. my stance is simple, though. if you feel the need to be wishy-washy about it then theres probably something there
open berry
its a given we'll end up reuniting them since theres already hint dialogue for it but i hope once it happens aphrodite has a comment about it, she would eat that up, esp after all the stuff achilles said about pat
those olympian gods do love watching good drama
vapid parcel
it's so true!! also achilles would hate that xD
i'm very excited to reunite them! i hope it happens in the next update since it's in pride month
sgg pls gib
open berry
aphrodite: oh zagreus! be a dear and tell achilles that i'm happy for him, would you? 🥺
vapid parcel
dense sparrow
but aphro is on the trojan side and achilles is greek
open berry
achilles is also long dead
open berry
wow that really was aprime example of 'theres two kinds of people' huh
dense sparrow
trojan war asdfghjk
open berry
i just jumped straight to hes dead
dense sparrow
lets not spam asdfghjk
open berry
achilles has been dead long enough his title is forgotten hero so maybe the gods are over it, they are pretty fickle and their new obsession is zag's little escape attempt after all
vapid parcel
it's true, also ngl it's very ironic it says forgotten hero given he was supposed to never be forgotten >:3c
dense sparrow
hmm true enough
vapid parcel
i love that detail, it makes it so much sadder
dense sparrow
but he is not forgotten, even by the romans
vapid parcel
but his title says he is, i'm not talking about like our world
of course it could be there just because but i kinda doubt that yk?
open berry
Zag: Hey Achilles, I heard from Lady Artemis out there. It seems you have a bit of a fan in her. She wanted me to tell you you're the best! She's not mistaken, by the way.
Achilles: The goddess of the hunt herself said that? That's very flattering to hear. Good thing she doesn't know I'm all washed up by now. Her memory is of my glory days.
eternal breach
I'm sure she'd love the current Achilles too
vapid parcel
she would!! he's soft and needs therapy
open berry
hades really be like these lads all need therapy: the game
cloud geode
i missed the achilles talk nooo
vapid parcel
noooooo
thorny surge
@eternal breach bouldy
eternal breach
Bouldy is the therapy
thorny surge
"only sane person on the underworld"
knotty basin
Bouldy hears all those persons talking about their issues yet he never complains or falters, he's such a rock
odd pawn
Just to clarify a few things, Achilles and Patroclus were not lovers, nor have they ever been in the Iliad. The two of them were more like brothers. In fact, Achilles was in love with his slave, a girl named Briseis who he took as a prize during the Battle of Lyrnessus in the Trojan War (which he led). Despite Achilles being mocked by Hector (which some believe was the reason for his absence from the battlefield), the real reason he refused to fight was because Agamemnon demanded that Achilles trade Briseis for his own slave, Chryseis.
After Patroclus died, Briseis revealed that Patroclus promised to get Achilles to marry her for real rather than keep her as a slave. His death worried her that her emancipation and official marriage would never happen, since her advocate was now off to Elysium. She was actually hit hardest by Achilles' death at the hands of Paris, because now the man she came to love had perished as well. For purposes of the game in relation to the Iliad, Briseis is the primary reason that Achilles is in the House to begin with.
TL;DR Achilles and Patroclus loved each other like brothers. Achilles' heart actually belonged to his slave, Briseis.
I mean...Achilles and Patroclus were pretty much like Marcus and Dom (Gears of War)
fair light
Hey Adder, you're welcome to that interpretation though it certainly is not conclusive fact, so please do not present it as such (as opposed it being your reading). Homer is a skilled writer and storyteller; he does not need to explicitly say "ACHILLES AND PATROCLUS ARE GAY LOVERS" for a reader / listener to be able to reasonably put those pieces together based on the evidence presented.
I am not sure about your analogy of Marcus and Dom. Can you imagine Marcus Fenix demanding that his ashes be buried with Dom's? Is that something done between friends, even best friends? Anyway -- our game posits that their relationship was intimate. I know it is debated / contested including by scholars, but I take issue with the idea that it is conclusively one way. Greek myth is filled with contradictions and survives today because it can be read in many different ways.
manic yoke
This is probably the coolest dev response ever
vapid parcel
Thank you Mr Greg
burnt harbor
Dusa with the Just Friends flag
vapid parcel
i was thinking the aro flag xD
flat shell
AND it matches her, colour wise. Made to be
vapid parcel
fated
burnt harbor
The Fates predicted it.
open berry
while this isnt specifically hades related, im throwing it here for anyone interested for inspiration and ect but i did find a group effort on classics twitter that put together resources for a lot of pdfs for translated classical texts and other resources https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HAf18EV_cu9HQx5XP4i855um3UraaBjA
burnt harbor
Do it and receive 30 keys
vapid parcel
thank you for this gift!!
open berry
a bit sad i already purchased metamorphoses before i found this since theres parts of it included but thats okay because i can throw page markers on a physical copy. but i have been doing a lot more looking through classics lately and doing further melding of hades interpretations with various myths through discussion with a friend for interesting hypotheticals so i thought maybe such a resource would be appreciated here
cloud geode
I'm trying to create a story that ties with the Iliad without knowing much about classics so thank you this will definitely help me!
odd pawn
I know it is debated / contested including by scholars, but I take issue with the idea that it is conclusively one way. Greek myth is filled with contradictions and survives today because it can be read in many different ways.
@fair light Homer, as he originally wrote the epic, never intended for the two of them to be interpreted as lovers. That's not reader interpretation, that's actual consensus within translation of Greek script (side note: the fault for interpreting them as lovers lies with erroneous interpretations by Aeschylus, Plato, and Pindar) The original term used in the epic, hetaîros, was generally used to mean "comrade," especially used together with phílos which is the Greek term for generalized love.
I mean, we can go back and forth about this all day but as one having read The Iliad and studied notes on the original text and translation, it paints a pretty clear picture that they were never meant to be more than close friends. Not saying you're wrong, but implying they were lovers once falls within the erroneous interpretation previously mentioned.
A minute to edit my response, I pressed Enter by accident while typing it out
Also not trying to be heteronormative by any means, since I've accepted the fact that Ancient Greece had some...fascinating characters like Alcibiades, the Athenian senator who swung both ways and was portrayed rather accurately in AC Odyssey.
flat shell
It seems rather presumptuous to assume the intent of a man several thousand years dead.
chilly zenith
heh
fair light
I have never met Homer so I don't know what he intended. I don't think anyone can say with certainty that they do. Like, even if Homer wrote something called "My Intentions, In Elaborate Detail" it would still be a work worth scrutinizing and questioning, examining the subtext and so on.
At any rate I appreciate your perspective. Maybe we can at least agree that Greek myth would be profoundly less interesting if it were limited to one "true, correct" reading. (I would argue that Greek myth could not exist in the universe where this was true.) Anyway -- I'm off to work on the game. This is a subject I am just as uninterested in going back and forth about as it sounds like you are.
For anyone else continuing the discussion, let me remind you to please be mindful of our community rules in #readme-first; I know this is a topic that can quickly get heated, so don't let it.
chilly zenith
Thanks for your time Greg
odd pawn
@fair light As a parting note before putting the issue to rest, might I remind you that scrutiny and over-analysis on lexical intentions is how some words' meaning have become...corrupted, for lack of a better term.
Anyway, gonna get back into Fallen Order on my NG+ run at Master difficulty.
open berry
Maybe for future reference don't speak as though you're some kind of authority on the topic and others aren't, because that's certainly how you're coming off in your commentary and it's rather off putting, to say the least.
digital crag
wow what a gamer flex
somber gull
Bro I opened HADES for the first time in weeks a few days ago
Things I learned: I'm Very Bad at controller
atomic forge
I do not play twinsticks (which Hades almost is) on a controller. I tried once.
junior field
I don't know how people can stomach playing ranged weapons with a pad
faint socket
i'm too used to kbm to switch at this point lmao
odd pawn
...don't speak as though you're some kind of authority on the topic and others aren't...
@open berry Whatever, dude. Never said anything of the sort and I'd appreciate not putting words in my mouth.
faint socket
Hey friend! I think this might be a good time to move on to another topic.
What's everyone hoping they'll see in the next update?
atomic forge
Festive Fog Revenge boon.
drifting citrus
bow 4th
merry sorrel
zagreus becoming capable of drinking the nectar and ambrosia
atomic forge
You drink with Achilles at least once.
merry sorrel
but I wanna drink it where I found it
drifting citrus
drink it on top of theseus's body before he dissipates
merry sorrel
drunken fists my way out, an opened bottle on my waist
drinking as I fight
drinking as I fish
faint socket
becoming a fish
merry sorrel
becoming a salmon and then just swim out?
faint socket
just for the halibut
atomic forge
Like Hades walks back into the Temple because he's been waiting on Zag for like, 6 hours and Cerberus is there napping with a Knucklehead with Zag's head on it instead is on top of him.
"I had a little too much Nectar and fell in."
drifting citrus
is the circle on the styx door a window or just a design
junior field
I'm expecting all 4th aspects to be present
merry sorrel
I'm assuming a design
manic yoke
I want another biome! And a proper ending! I know it's not been announced to happen but that would be ideal to me.
merry sorrel
I want Achilles and Patroclus to kiss on-screen
atomic forge
I'm confident we're getting their resolution storyline next patch.
open berry
if its not next one it'll prob be the one after that
honestly my wishlist aside from that is
•extended ares affection
•extended hypnos affection
•further narrative on the dynamic between thanatos, hypnos and nyx
achilles finally getting his unique model... clenches fist.... I Wish To See It
fathom current
Zagreus straight up slips on a banana peel and heccin dies
open berry
i mean theres literally an end card that ends wil e coyote style, its actually not beyond the realm of possibility (until 1.0 lol)
fathom current
Pffft
drifting citrus
there is actually a slip on banana ending lmao
open berry
i was wondering if i saw one or if it was a meme and couldnt be sure
could have been either way
vapid parcel
i'm hoping for more aspects and more chances to take our romancables out on dates
open berry
with 4 aspects still left, i feel pretty confident we'll get like 1-2 next update.
i doubt they would stick all 4 remaining aspects in one update though
vapid parcel
yeah same
i'm also hoping to finish achilles story line
i want my boys to be happy!!!
open berry
achilles will prob be either next update or the one after
hollow mortar
Considering the 2 current 4th aspects are "foreign" to the greeks, maybe the next ones will be as well 
vapid parcel
i think so
open berry
they did say none of the characters are done in terms of content atm so theres honestly... still a lot to add
vapid parcel
that seems to be the theme and i love that with the aspects
open berry
@hollow mortar honestly i think theyre gonna do that with all remaining aspects, yeah. greg did say in last qa they had always planned to go the past/future aspect route with 4ths
vapid parcel
its very cool
hollow mortar
That's awesome! I wonder what they have planned
open berry
its just unfortunate the first released one got so much flak because uh. gestures
atomic forge
Wait, what was wrong with Guan Yu's launch?
atomic forge
I did not know this.
open berry
there were multiple threads about it when it happened, i lurk the steam forum a lot since im on steam daily as it is
but ofc when arthur released everyone was quiet 😂
but yeah guan yu release was not taken well by the vocal minority bc they saw it as sgg pandering to the cn demographic
atomic forge
I'm gonna be honest, I feel like Steam happenings are a lesser concern in SGG's mind.
hollow mortar
I feel sorry for Caitlin 
atomic forge
I think they've said that this server is their primary source of interaction.
atomic forge
If I hadn't spoken to Caitlin on Twitch I'd be worried, but she's better equipped than most to be a CM.
hollow mortar
That's his username? OMG
fickle comet
cn demographic?
hollow mortar
Chinese demographic, since Guan Yu is part of their lore
fickle comet
Thanks.
open berry
guan yu was an accomplished general during the three kingdoms period of china, he's more or less become a mythological figure in their culture
fickle comet
Yeah, I know Guan Yu.
open berry
so thats why people went after sgg for that, bc they were still riled about epic
fickle comet
People have issues.
open berry
but again, not a single one of those people said anything about arthur so it was really nothing more than vindictive outrage lol
fickle comet
Excalibur is obviously pandering the UK exceptionalism demographic.
open berry
cant wait to see demographic what the next aspect will pander to 🤪
wish i had even half the energy some of these people do to be needlessly upset over nothing
fickle comet
Why is it always three-headed hell hound. Why can't it be a three-headed hell cat.
Discrimination.
vapid parcel
people love being upset, especially if they can be racist about it
fickle comet
Why are they writing Hades in English instead of Ancient Greek?
Pandering to the English speaking demographic at the expense of historical accuracy.
vapid parcel
how dare they have mythology in there we didn't personally approve of.
open berry
in all seriousness, i know it would never happen since its beyond the scope of the studio but tbh if they could get greek audio for the game i would def switch to that
vapid parcel
that would be pretty cool xD
but i'd miss the original voices too much i think
i can't help notice they sometimes seem to use the latinized spelling and sometimes the greek one? primarily the latinized stuff tho
probably bc stuff is better known that way tho
hollow mortar
You mean in the english translation?
hollow mortar
Well, in spanish it's Afrodita
In croatian is the same
I mean, Aphrodite as an example
I don't know the greek pronunciations though 😅
vapid parcel
oh i meant the writing
merry sorrel
you mean like Patroclus should be Patroklos and Asterius should be Asterion and the like?
vapid parcel
i don't know how to pronounce anything at all xD
hollow mortar
Ooohh
vapid parcel
you mean like Patroclus should be Patroklos and Asterius should be Asterion and the like?
@merry sorrel not should xD i just noticed
hollow mortar
If they used the greek alphabet for names, people would have a tough time remembering the written names hehe
hollow mortar
It's ok 