h1-story-discussion

[pearl plank]

yeah

it's fun in its own way

and also like i said it's pretty much what ends up happening half the time anyway lol

[steady beacon]

the no plan strat sounds like the perfect strat for Chaos boon hoarding

[pearl plank]

what is the old spiked collar's max health bonus?

i've never used the collar

[acoustic condor]

Chaos runs are no plan runs

[pearl plank]

still at 25 health for me lol

[acoustic condor]

I think 150

Or 100

150 sounds way too much

[hollow garden]

Yeah, I tend to go God Keepsakes consistently for first 2 biomes, Cthonic Coin Purse for Elysium, then the Old Spiked Collar for Styx

Same but broken spearpoint for Styx.

[pearl plank]

the tooth revives you at over 100 hp if i'm not mistaken?

[steady beacon]

??? P sure it's max is 50, lol

[hollow garden]

Tooth max is 150

[pearl plank]

always broken spear for styx, for me

so tooth is just like... a better collar then right?

[drifting citrus]

i go coin purse/god keepsake/god keepsake or black shawl/acorn or spearpoint

[hollow garden]

Collar is +50 health, Tooth is +1 Defiance which heals you 50/100/150

[acoustic condor]

Wow Collar is crap

[drifting citrus]

if i'm doing real bad, i'll go tooth on styx

[pearl plank]

yeah i don't understand the collar, maybe i'm missing something

[hollow garden]

Collar is imo the best new player keepsake in the game. It drops off once you unlock Thick Skin

[acoustic condor]

Youre not

[pearl plank]

oh, huh

[acoustic condor]

It really is irrelevant after your 10th run

[drifting citrus]

i think the idea is many new players will give their early nectars to the dog and then they get a nice little bonus

[dense crown]

collar sounds like it wouldve been good when sword lifesteal was a thing

[acoustic condor]

I just didnt think it was THAT bad

[steady beacon]

I will never stop fearing for my max health, thus Old Spiked Collar for no good reason

[hollow garden]

It's a great new player keepsake because you likely do not have access to the Spearpoint (the best keepsake for Styx imo) for at least a while.

[pearl plank]

someone else recently made the point about the keepsake that gives you +% damage when you clear rooms without taking damage, that if you're that confident in your ability to not get hit, why not just take meg's keepsake and chill at low health and get an automatic +40% damage increase

[acoustic condor]

Than's Butterfly

[spring scaffold]

Collar is not that bad, as more health means more healing too. Still below tooth, but not by that much.

[pearl plank]

yeah that's the one

[drifting citrus]

people like doing challenge runs

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow garden]

Imo Skelly's Tooth is only good at max rank

[pearl plank]

i guess that's totally fair, good point

[acoustic condor]

Which, because it's pierced in the places you would pin them, suggests he collects butterflies

Having an extra DD gives you so much more potential than collar

[pearl plank]

yeah.... although i guess having higher max health makes your regular DDs a bit more valuable

[acoustic condor]

Each life is a potential max HP, so 4 DD = 4 potential max healths

Its a way higher ceiling

[pearl plank]

how do you figure each one counts for another potential max health?

[acoustic condor]

Collar becomes irrelevant if you get a heart in Erebus on Tartarus

[pearl plank]

i feel like any time you're not dead is a potential to get back to max health, doesn't really matter about DDs unless i'm missing something

[hollow garden]

A Death Defiance that heals 50 health is literally only protection for two more attacks from the final boss.

If it heals 150 though, that could potentially be over half your health.

A Dog Collar at +50 health makes all your death defiances better.

[acoustic condor]

Because you can heal the difference if youre not literally in the Hades fight

[hollow garden]

If you're blowing Death Defiances before Styx imo your run is already in trouble.

[steady beacon]

does than collect butterflies in the sparse moments when he's not helping zag or bringing dead people to the underworld? das cute

[pearl plank]

yeah but you can always potentially heal up as long as you're not at hades, more important is keeping your DDs in reserve so you basically have that much extra health going into it

[acoustic condor]

Nah at lower heats a decent shield run can smash Hades on 1 DD

[steady beacon]

healing up can't be assured, is the thing

[pearl plank]

yeah

[acoustic condor]

I never feel that health is as scarce as it's discussed to be tbh

[pearl plank]

considering DD's, the collar actually gives you more than just 100 or however much extra health, it's that 100 + the percentage of that extra 100 that you'll get back on each DD

[dense crown]

die twice to hydra and once in early elysium and then talk to patrocles is the real strat

[pearl plank]

so maybe it isn't so bad 🤷‍♀️

[hollow garden]

If you're struggling in Asphodel or Elysium and losing your Death Defiances it can be incredibly difficult to recover for Hades and Styx.

I'm also of the opinion that you can never have enough health in this game. Anything under 250 health makes me seriously worried for the final fight.

Having a 4th death defiance is great but it's honestly better to just not need more than 3.

[pearl plank]

haha if you get patro

[acoustic condor]

Gravel truly understands the Hades experience

[drifting citrus]

big brain

[pearl plank]

man centaur hearts are always my last choice of gold laurels

[vagrant cloud]

so the phoenix is originally greek. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(mythology) There's no phoenix-y things near Zag to suggest he's the god of rebirth, and the phoenix is associated w/ the sun. May not be necessary though

[acoustic condor]

Ive had so many runs saved by Pat

[pearl plank]

well, between those and poms

[acoustic condor]

Flamewheels and greatshields man

[hollow garden]

Patro isn't guaranteed but if you're restoring health or death defiances from Patro that begs the question why do you need a 4th Death Defiance unless you really messed up the Theseus fight.

[pearl plank]

weirdly i feel like i'm not often choosing between poms and centaur hearts

[acoustic condor]

I mean I would never take Collar or Tooth

[pearl plank]

same, but still

[acoustic condor]

So thats a moot point

[pearl plank]

just tryna understand the value

i never take the feather duster either lol

or ...like most of the keepsakes tbh

[dusk acorn]

i feel sorry for dusa

[drifting citrus]

with the whole god of blood and life thing, i expect them to spin it around to mean "life is determined to survive or do what it wants, even in death" in reference to zag escaping the underworld

[dusk acorn]

she gives us a keepsake

that encourages creating more messes for her to clean up

[atomic forge]

butterfly is pretty fun to use

[pearl plank]

now that they made the shackle(?) boost trap damage too tho it kinda sounds more interesting, but haven't gotten around to trying it yet

[hollow garden]

I aggressively take Centaur Hearts in Elysium, considering lots of Elysium rolls are Health / Money, and I take Coin Purse so I don't need to take money rooms.

I don't take either of them myself. My opinion is the Collar is better for the early game because you don't have access to Thick Skin and thus it's 50 health you don't have to scramble to pick up in a later area. (And that the tooth is better in general if you have it maxed out)

[dusk acorn]

hermes artifact seems fun but I don't know how fast is 'quickly clearing an encounter'

[acoustic condor]

Being able to ensure the boons you want to increase the chance of legendaries and duos is just so much higher value than any other trinket besides maybe spear

[atomic forge]

it has a timer under your boons for the hermes keepsake

[pearl plank]

@dusk acorn the urns ARE the mess

[dusk acorn]

hypothetically if you're crazy strong it's like +60% dodge chance and move speed but

[drifting citrus]

shackle is heightened security uno reverse card

[dense crown]

sometimes you just stand to the right of that broken pillar in the hades fight with bad collision one, two, five to many times and but still win with 30 health and four DDs used up

[acoustic condor]

Kin

With max troves and gold on gems I never feel starved for money picking up the occasional obol room

[hollow garden]

I typically avoid Obol rooms because I get enough money as I go and I find shops unreliable.

[acoustic condor]

Id say priority is hammer, boon, obol, keys, nectar, gems, darkness

And hearts float in the void

I take them when I need them and get to 300 by Theseus

[hollow garden]

Hammer and Boons are definitely top priority, Hearts fall next in line unless I need some obols

[main gulch]

obol rooms are worth your rerolls

[acoustic condor]

But obols can v easily be hearts, especially if theres no boon you want in that shop

Theyre also on the fly healing

[main gulch]

just reroll and get something which is worth more

[acoustic condor]

Obols are worth as much as anything you can buy which includes hammers and boons

[hollow garden]

Why take the Obol room which might get me a heart later (at 125, so not even just the currency from the room is enough) when if a heart is offered, I get that instead.

[acoustic condor]

You cant beat flexibility

[main gulch]

lemme throw convenience fee pact condition into the mix too then

[dusk acorn]

also, a heart is 125 obol

a obol room is 100

(except in styx I think)

[pearl plank]

@acoustic condor where do poms fall on your ranking there?

[hollow garden]

The price for flexibility is that you potentially lose out on your upgrades.

[acoustic condor]

And you get the 25 from killing enemies and pots

[dusk acorn]

poms feel trash not gonna lie :c

[main gulch]

also, if you get a boon you don't want just purge it

[spring scaffold]

@hollow garden Because that lets you buy a diamond or titan blood.

[pearl plank]

agree

[acoustic condor]

I only take poms if theres no other option

[dusk acorn]

the first pom or two is good

[main gulch]

also poms do feel trash ye

[dusk acorn]

but after that it's like why

[pearl plank]

poms 👎

[main gulch]

buff poms

[quaint zealot]

poms on certain boons are worf doh

[dusk acorn]

and you get poms anyway especially from styx

[pearl plank]

i always go for obols if they're up and there are no hammer or boons tho

[quaint zealot]

but poms could use a buff for a majority of boons

[hollow garden]

You can buy them but I don't need to. Have most of the game grinded out.

[acoustic condor]

Honestly I fly by splurging on most shops and still buy blood in Styx money isnt hard to come by and its almost impossible to end a run with less than 300 max hp

[main gulch]

Nectar is almost better than poms now too

[pearl plank]

dude what

how

[main gulch]

How which one

[hollow garden]

Nectar is a free boon level with the upgrade

[pearl plank]

i literally get every obol room and trove i find, avoid all shops until styx unless i'm really hurting, and i've still never bought a blood/diamond in styx

[quaint zealot]

upgrade where nectar gives boon upgrade

[pearl plank]

and i rarely have 300 hp also

[hollow garden]

And with a Dio run, Nectar buffs health too

[acoustic condor]

What

How

[hollow garden]

Premium Vintage

[pearl plank]

i do not know...

[acoustic condor]

Okay my average is probably 250 now that I think about it but the rest stands

[main gulch]

I think there's two conversations lol

[hollow garden]

I never leave Styx under 300 if possible

[acoustic condor]

Shield insulates that 50

[hollow garden]

I typically always enter Styx with 200/300

[acoustic condor]

And I only use shield

[main gulch]

Budget cuts cutting me down to 50 hp

Wish I could get 300

[acoustic condor]

I do prefer 300 tho

I also avoid Budget Cuts and the one that limits mirror like the plague

[pearl plank]

i'm really confused how we're playing the same game lol

[main gulch]

They're the same one @acoustic condor

[acoustic condor]

Oh right

[pearl plank]

how do you get so much gold and hp and still also get boons lol

[acoustic condor]

Sorry *Convenience Fee

[lucid salmon]

Poms are hardly any more valuable than renovated Nectar ye. Darkness only gives 1/5th the value of a Heart, but I don't particularly care which boons those first couple levels go to so Nectar's randomness is barely a downside.

[acoustic condor]

I only use god keepsakes

[lucid salmon]

Also with the heat for shop prices the obol rewards are less valuable

[main gulch]

Also poms are random as soon as you have four or more boons anyway

[lucid salmon]

So if you're at the point where the only shop you can really afford is the Styx Mega Mart then I don't even see why you're taking Obols so much

[acoustic condor]

There are runs where Im boon starved but theyre exceedingly rare

[quaint zealot]

To be fair that's us tampering stuff to make things harder and more difficult to us so idk how the argument for balancing things TOWARDS higher heat levels goes.

[main gulch]

Ehh

[pearl plank]

i never take convenience fee

[main gulch]

Poms suck on every heat

Not just high heat

[pearl plank]

or...pretty much anything. only pact options i really take are extreme measures, jury summons, middle management

[worthy seal]

I think poms should have an upgrade, similar to nectar, that makes them up the rarity of a random boon.

[hollow garden]

Tight Deadline gang wheeee

[main gulch]

Where my budget cut gang at

[acoustic condor]

Its easy to get at least 1k obol in Styx

[worthy seal]

There's so few methods to increase rarity right now.

[pearl plank]

TD was fun the one time i did it lol

[lucid salmon]

Pom rooms are relatively better compared to obols on Convenience Fee because they cost more in the shop... except I would still probably take the obols then.

[quaint zealot]

_ i will never do 32 heat because I avoid time requirements in any game like the plague and is why i have nightmares of De Blob_

[hollow garden]

budget cuts is my least favorite pact modifier because it makes playing the game less fun for me. I prefer No Choice to it and that's saying something lol.

[main gulch]

Just do 32 heat without deadline and suffer other conditions @quaint zealot

I rage quit no choice after it got rid of heartbreak strike one too many times

[pearl plank]

yeah f bydget cuts

and no choice and underworld customs

and ...most pact conditions

[hollow garden]

I like Hades cause it's a Roguelike with lots of flexibility, and thus I dislike pact options which take away that flexibility

[acoustic condor]

I used to play w Fee on old heat and it was the worst

Not having oodles of money cripples a run

[quaint zealot]

so i had the chaos curse where ondeath folk drop infernal bombs

and i had one of those timed survival runs

[acoustic condor]

Oh boy

[quaint zealot]

so i sat in a corner with shield bull rush

just to experiment for science

[acoustic condor]

What did science tell you

[quaint zealot]

i just flash banged myself from the explosion

[acoustic condor]

Hahaha

@pearl plank I finish runs w 15 boons average

Give or take

[lime orchid]

Yo Meg was just in ma room

🅱️ruh

[quaint zealot]

^^^^^^^

[dusk acorn]

[gusty crag]

Don't be distracted by the one true waifu we all have in Artemis

[lime orchid]

#ArtemisBestGirl

[gusty crag]

#ArtemisBestGirl

[devout pilot]

Question

Having not used much nectar

How does ambrosia work?

(Should I wait an see? #ArtemisBestGirl)

[drifting citrus]

you use it forge deeper bonds with certain people, but you need to get those people to the maximum amount of nectar first

[potent cove]

It works the same way but you only unlock the option to give it to people once you've reached a certain threshhold by giving the necter @devout pilot

[drifting citrus]

there's another use for it as well, but it ties into its main use

[devout pilot]

Are the ambrosia dialogues...

[drifting citrus]

so you'll figure it out when you start giving it to people

[potent cove]

yeah

The logbook heart thingy will indicate when they've had enough of Necter and want Amprosia

[drifting citrus]

you can look in the pins for what the different icons on the hearts mean!

[potent cove]

there aren't many characters that do though, at the moment

[devout pilot]

(Just waiting on rnjesus baby)

Wait, are the ambrosias only for the secret stashes?

[potent cove]

What do you mean?

[devout pilot]

Can I only give ambrosia to than, Sally, meg and ?

[potent cove]

yep

[pearl plank]

sisyphus

[drifting citrus]

basically! until they add the next two characters' events

[devout pilot]

Poop, neat mechanic though

[drifting citrus]

you can use it for upgrading their keepsakes, so you're still be using quite a bit of it

[potent cove]

More will be added sooner or later

[drifting citrus]

my only gripe about it is that it really doesn't come into play until much later, and many players will want to trade it for blood before they truly know what it's for

[pearl plank]

i never remember to use the legendary keepsakes

[lime orchid]

no one ever does tbh

[drifting citrus]

unless you're haelian discovering hydra skips

[gusty crag]

how much ambrosia will i need though

I have like more than ten rn

[devout pilot]

#ArtemisBestGirl

[drifting citrus]

i think it's currently 44 needed

[gusty crag]

and I have not gotten to the max nectar with anyone with the events

since best girl Artemis took all my nectar

[drifting citrus]

though i'm not sure if that's just for the keepsakes or if that includes the events

[gusty crag]

and then i found out her path isnt even done lol

[drifting citrus]

probably a little more than 44

[gusty crag]

ambrosia?

not nectar

I thought that you only needed one ambrosia per character for some reason

[drifting citrus]

ambrosia for both heart events and upgrading keepsakes (since it goes 1/2/3/4) will be somewhere around 50

[gusty crag]

whats the best ambrosia keepsake?

[drifting citrus]

all have different uses, meg and than's are pretty similar

[potent cove]

Anyway, on an entirely unrelated note,

Am I the only one who is kinda frustrated by the absence of story content about ||Persephone||?

I've left feedback about it a few times and always got a pretty vocal backlash for wanting to know more about them,

|| I know the story isn't finished yet so they could add a ton of interesting stuff about her right at the end of development, that would play out throughout the experience, for new players, but they've mostly handled story content in order, so far,

So we'll probably end up hearing tons about her, all at once, only moments before the climax, where we'll presumably meet her ||

[drifting citrus]

||meg's is a line of circles that do 2500 dmg several times
than's is his huge circle for 3000 damage
skelly's summons himself to take hits for you until he runs out of hp
sis's drops on a certain spot for 1000 damage multiple times and you get pickups from it||

[gusty crag]

I hear that some cant be used on bosses?

[drifting citrus]

||meg won't fight her sisters or hades
than won't fight hades or himself||
each have special dialogue on each boss that they can fight as well!

[modest yacht]

How does one get passed the locked heart for Meg?

[potent cove]

@modest yacht - Give her Ambrosia

[drifting citrus]

you have to unlock the hearts first before you can give ambrosia

[modest yacht]

I know there’s a mission or interaction I’m missing

[drifting citrus]

as for meg, ||i'm not entirely sure, but you probably have to beat her a certain amount of times, and experiment around with extreme measures||

have you been using extreme measures?

[modest yacht]

Yeah

[drifting citrus]

then probably just keep playing

[modest yacht]

Just wish it was easy like skully

[potent cove]

I find Than' the most annoying because you can only talk to him after encountering him in a run and he doesn't show up very often

Meg has a similar problem, once her sisters show up, but I still saw her twice as often as Than'

but seriously guys:
Persephone.
Thoughts on.
Gimme.

[pearl plank]

uhhh.... eehhhh... 🤷‍♀️

lol

sorry

[potent cove]

[drifting citrus]

bad mom

[pearl plank]

i trust that i'll be happy enough with whatever they give us on persie

[gusty crag]

bouldy is my real dad and nyx is my true mom

[potent cove]

I'm fairly sure it'll be good, whatever they decide to do but...

Let's be honest: SGG are kinda known for... anticlimactic endings, to put it mildly

[gusty crag]

Looking at you transistor

[pearl plank]

endings in general are usually let downs lol

endings are hard

[potent cove]

I liked the ends to Bastion and Transister but they were undeniably low key

[drifting citrus]

i mean, they have to somehow get zag back to the underworld anyways

[pearl plank]

and, as nice as the narrative aesthetic of SG games are, ultimately i'm not too concerned with deep meaningful stuff or the lack thereof

[drifting citrus]

i'm half expecting them to say persephone's still in the underworld and zag will die to look for her there

[pearl plank]

i'm hoping he just semi-repairs his relationship with his dad to some extent and goes back to visit sometimes

and just slaughters everything again on his way back out lol

it's the way of the underworld

[gusty crag]

maybe after being out for a while than just yeets you back into hell with pure edge

[pearl plank]

ohhh yeah

zag has other good reasons to come back for visits

than, meg, everyone

[potent cove]

It just so happens that Hades and Persephone's relationship is one of the most fascinating parts of the entire mythos to me,

I'm sure their interpretation of her will be cool (even if it isn't exactly what I was looking for)

but I am worried they won't tell us enough about her, before she appears, and that meeting her will be anticlimactic or even rushed

[pearl plank]

as for anti-climactic, i'd say a certain part more toward the middle of transistor was a much bigger culprit for that than the end was

at least gameplay-wise, maybe that shows my bias for why i ultimately play these games

[potent cove]

I was kinda wondering if they'd try to subvert our expectations by revealing that she's evil and make her the secret final boss (She did abandon Zag so it wouldn't be totally shocking to me) and it would give Zag a reason to return

[pearl plank]

idk if that would even subvert our expectations that much, i've seen a number of people talking about that possibility

[quaint zealot]

I gotta give eurydice's voice actor some props tho

[potent cove]

Don't think they're gonna do that anymore but I am wondering how they'll justify her abandoning her child

[pearl plank]

also lol @ the image i just got of the idea of persephone being in hell and zag dying to go save her, the final run is a giant escort mission lol.
😎 👉 👉

[gusty crag]

Please no

I can't feel as emotional as I did in bastion

[drifting citrus]

the entire battle, mother i'm here plays

[lucid salmon]

Don't worry she'll help you out by giving you Poms of Power :kappa:

[quaint zealot]

_ it's a terrible day for rain_

but sir we're in he**ck**

[lofty fossil]

Skelly was sent by Persephone CMM

[gusty crag]

ooooohhh that would be interesting

[sharp magnet]

That sounds plausible

[drifting citrus]

skelly IS persephone

[sharp magnet]

sure

[lofty fossil]

lol

[potent cove]

Personally: I prefer the version of the myth that implies Hades and Persephone's relationship was gewnuinely loving, albeit: complicated

and reveal that she left for an unrelated reason,

but even if they go for the Unwilling Captive angle (Why though!?)

I just want to be able to talk to Hades, Nyx and so on about what she was like, so Zag has some reason to believe she's worth finding#

[quaint zealot]

Skelly is just persephone living out her masochistic dreams?

[potent cove]

as it is: she abandoned him and he knows nothing else about her but, for some reason, thinks she's more important than LITERALLY EVERYONE HE HAS EVER KNOWN AND LOVED!!

[bleak osprey]

[drifting citrus]

i LOVE those emotes

[orchid yew]

[lofty fossil]

[gusty crag]

[potent cove]

It's really distracting to me that Zag is chasing after her when he has ZERO reason to believe she will treat him any better than Hades

[gusty crag]

superior emote and second best girl is dusa

[drifting citrus]

i mean, it's not just her

[gusty crag]

well she left hell so zag probably thinks that they feel the same way about stuff

[drifting citrus]

it's also the entirely oppressive and emotionally abusive father and lack of freedom

[lucid salmon]

[potent cove]

If we heard just ONE story, from Hades, Nyx or whoever, that told him about how nice and compassionate she was, I would buy it
but, as it is: It bothers the hell out of me

[bleak osprey]

i mean if it were me i'd probably be willing to take the chance just to get the hell away from hades

[potent cove]

The fact Hades treats him so poorly is EXACTLY why he should know that being related to someone doesn't mean they care about you or will help you

[drifting citrus]

he probably also wants answers from her for abandoning him too

[gusty crag]

He probably wants to know more details about his power and who he really is from her too

Hades is not exactly to kind with details

[forest meteor]

Since when have people always been rational in their thinking? I know plenty of stories of someone inventing a fictional story and picture in their head about something they think will save them from their current hellish existence.

They'll chase that picture because they want to believe there's someing better than what they have.

[drifting citrus]

ye i don't think zag is exactly in the right position to have a right mind and clear thought

[dusk acorn]

to be fair zag's also like literally immortal

at the worst he has some fun smashing some things

[lucid salmon]

The game doesn't start your first run with "Nyx isn't my real mom I gotta leave." That's not until after a couple attempts, and Nyx and Achilles have been helping him set this up for a while. I didn't even really get the picture of how important Persephone was supposed to be to him until after Artemis prodded at "your real motive."

[dusk acorn]

like us, playing him

if the surface isn't what it's chalked up to be, well, he's got an easy way to return

like a rare kind of toxic mushroom or stepping on farming implements

[drifting citrus]

or a cold

[potent cove]

I'd just like to reiterate: He's planning on leaving everyone he has ever known, not just Hades, and has said nothing about returning once he has his answers,

so, while asking Persephone why she left and getting some details about himself are sound motivations, to a degree,

I still think he needs more reason to put this much value on finding Persephone,
For all he knows, she might just be a femele version of Hades

[bleak osprey]

i mean, i figured that's a flashback to tell the audience, zag already knows

[forest meteor]

But he doesn't know. That's the point. He's choosing to believe she is because he wants it to be true.

(replying to Patrick-Sears)

[potent cove]

His conversations with Than and Meg make it pretty clear he's doing this primarily because of Persephone, not for freedom

[forest meteor]

And yes, he's forgetting and hurting his friends, but that's part of the story.

[drifting citrus]

is it fair to call this a coming-of-age story?

[forest meteor]

It's implied through certain conversations that Zag accused Meg of helping Hades keep the secret of Persephone from him, and saying she was never his friend.

Or something along those lines.

[potent cove]

That just doesn't sit well with me when every other relationship in the game exemplifies the theme that the people who support you and with whom you share a bond are more valuable than blood relatives, in of themselves

[forest meteor]

Which is what they're proving to Zag by supporting him in current bull-headed quest.

Hopefully at the end he looks back and realizes what he had and how lucky he was to have it.

[potent cove]

Yeah but, in the mean time, I have to spend tens of hours playing a character who I have difficulty relating to because his actions go against the central theme of his own story!

[forest meteor]

Another way to look at it is, it's not like he's betraying them or something.

He's just moving.

[bleak osprey]

i mean, i don't have any issues relating to zagreus, but maybe that's just a me thing

[drifting citrus]

i mean, i don't see why a main character has to exemplify a main theme in order to have it be the main theme

[forest meteor]

Different folks, different strokes.

[pearl plank]

i think there are plenty of good motivations, most of which y'all already touched on. Zag knows that Hades is a jerk, that Persephone left so he can too, he has hope for that future, and his family and loved ones kept her existence and relationship to Zag a secret from him so now he also has answers to seek. he doesn't mention returning, but that doesn't mean he can't. these folks are immortal, it's not like they're running out of time with each other

[potent cove]

Again: all I'd need to buy it is ONE story from a character that Zag trusts and respects, that indicates Persephone is a good person

even if it turns out to be wrong

[forest meteor]

I have problems with some stories and characters that most people I know don't so...

[pearl plank]

i don't think it much matters whether he knows she's a good person or not

he wants answers, he wants to know what's possible beyond this place

he'll find out for himself what kind of person she is

Fenix: same

stories have always been difficult for me to get into/relate to, in fact

[forest meteor]

Sorry you're having relating probs Patrick.
I guess that just means Zag's brain works way different than yours.

[pearl plank]

but yeah, it's the longing to know that drives him, not any sort of expectation, even if he might have an idealized fantasy in his head

[drifting citrus]

keep in mind that we don't have all parts of the story even implemented yet

[forest meteor]

^

[pearl plank]

i've pursued pretty drastic life changes not knowing what the outcome was going to be, just because thinking about exploring that path inspired hope within me

it's a personal, emotional thing

[potent cove]

I realise this is entirely subjective and I don't dispute that there's merit to the story as it is,

But I don't have to like it

[pearl plank]

nope

you surely don't

it's an interesting discussion anyway, glad you brought it up

[potent cove]

It just bothers me

[earnest spindle]

Eh part of it is in theme with greek mythology, everyone runs flying on strong passions and ego.

[forest meteor]

I relate to your un-relating with some stories.

Just not this one. 🙂

[dusk acorn]

zag kinda has to return, cause at some point he's going to die

(so will Persephone, I guess)

[vale egret]

agree with probe_rush, greek mythology wasn't easy for me to relate to when reading about it. i prefer adaptations like hades

[forest meteor]

Only if something kills him or he somehow becomes mortal.

[drifting citrus]

he has to die in order for late-game to work

[dusk acorn]

zag also calls out all the greek heroes who have left :p

[drifting citrus]

cause a lot of stuff gets unlocked after you get out the first time

[earnest spindle]

Maybe every run is a small Hero's Journey

[potent cove]

If you're gonna tie it into more general themes of the mythos:
You could always have Zag and Persephone's meeting be prophesised

I wouldn't recommend it, but that's the standard way of getting heroes to rush off into the unknown, for little or no reason

[forest meteor]

I don't know how end game handling will change once it's out of Early Access...

[earnest spindle]

There is literally a scroll of prophesy in the game, they will probably add meeting her as the last last achievement

[forest meteor]

So much of it is currently centered around the fact that you're not actually escaping.

[dusk acorn]

also hades puts a bunch of bounties o\n defeating X

so technically zag's still helping

he's just penetration testing

[pearl plank]

yeah but to be fair that list is of minor prophecies, i wonder if beating the game and fulfilling the protagonist's ultimate goal would sit well on that list

[dusk acorn]

before getting killed by [REDACTED]

[potent cove]

But, even if I was happy with Zag's current motivatioon, do you think including the option to ask people what Persephone was like would really hurt that?#

[pearl plank]

no

in fact, does that not happen at some point?

that seems familiar

[potent cove]

Kinda but not really

They meantion her name a bunch but never really describe her

[bleak osprey]

thanatos mentions her in one conversation

[dusk acorn]

i'd kinda want to meet my mom even if she's a jerk

is she a bigger jerk than hades is the question

[main gulch]

What we know about persephone is she doesn't want to stay in hades or olympus and she cares for cerberus

[forest meteor]

Well, Hades refuses to talk about her and has pretty much banned anyone else from doing so.

[earnest spindle]

He's a pissed off young guy who hates his dad, that's enough reason to leave. Persephone is just another thread to latch on to.

[pearl plank]

and that she doesn't care enough for zag to mention him in the note...

[earnest spindle]

Which gives him another reason to be angry and go find answers

[forest meteor]

Basically, Patrick-Sears has the same reaction that Than and Meg had.

[potent cove]

It's just: Yep, she sure did...exist..
but we're not even gonna tell you what she looked like, let alone how she acted, how she felt about Hades and the underworld or how we felt about her

[worldly oak]

Does zag hate hades?

[pearl plank]

and so, we set out to find out for ourselves

[worldly oak]

Before the whole get out shenanigans

[pearl plank]

idk if Zag has hate in this heart

but he knows Hades is an oppressive jerk to him

[forest meteor]

Zag: "This place sucks! I'm going to find someone that might actuallly care about me!"

Meg & Than: "So we count for nothing!"

[pearl plank]

and resents him

[potent cove]

@earnest spindle - That would be fine IF he didn't repeatedly say he was running way specifically to find her and that escaping his dad was secondary#

[drifting citrus]

and fenix, that's actually an experience many people, fictional and otherwise, have lmao

[forest meteor]

^

[pearl plank]

i mean, going to find my long lost birth mom sounds better lol. even to one's self probably

you can sit around for ages knowing that you should leave a toxic situation, but once you find a compelling enough justification to latch onto then you actually can

and you probably give it more credit than is due

it's more like the final straw i guess

[earnest spindle]

He says that Patrick, but he does gloat after he beats his dad up. Zag liked that fight

[potent cove]

but Zag knows she abandoned him, so he has pretty good reason to believe she won't be happy to see him, even if he does escape

[earnest spindle]

I'd still want to hear some answers if I was in his position

[pearl plank]

people seek out parents who abandoned them all the time

who they know nothing about

[dusk acorn]

tbf i think hades liked that fight too

[potent cove]

maybe if they established she had no choice, escaping with a baby would be difficult,
but they don't

[pearl plank]

personally i never quite understood that motivation, but it's very much a thing

[dusk acorn]

most everyone seems to like fighting

[forest meteor]

I think everyone has the potential to hate in their hearts. In situations like this though, I think the primary emotional response is acting out in hurtful ways because of so wanting love from someone who you percieve as only giving you pain.

[earnest spindle]

Honestly those fights are the closest thing to a real conversation they have probably have had in a long time

[pearl plank]

yeah

they're bonding by murdering each other lol

[earnest spindle]

||"See...you...at...home"||

[dusk acorn]

like some of the stuff is just "well on the bright side we're making a ton of strides in fortifying everything because of you" and "nice to flex the old titan slaying muscles again"

[earnest spindle]

It's like Baki and his Dad in Grappler Baki

[dusk acorn]

and, well like. everyone workes in hell

[potent cove]

oooh! - tangent: I like that they established that Charon takes you home every time you die, through one of Hades' death lines!

[dusk acorn]

so if people die, welp

[earnest spindle]

He takes everyone there when the die

[forest meteor]

Yeah. Charon is OG owner of the Underworld.

[dusk acorn]

it hurts but they just walk right back out of that pool of blood

for hypnos to snark at them

[potent cove]

I figured that was why you kept everything EXCEPT your money but it was nice to have proof

[gusty crag]

i love that most of the development between you and Hades is in the middle of battle

[dusk acorn]

"hey meg have you tried NOT getting hit by Zag's attacks?"

[gusty crag]

hypnos is a babe

[graceful wharf]

yeah a baby

[dusk acorn]

there's a conversation where meg gets trounced by you, you come back, and get to hear a conversation between hypnos and meg

[pliant hinge]

||wait is Hades a game metaphor for a early access games?||

Suddent thought I had

[dusk acorn]

and then they see you come in and meg asks hypnos to repeat the 'advice' he just gave her

[bleak osprey]

i would counter that it might not always be charon that takes zag back to the house

[gusty crag]

Dun Dun Dun

[forest meteor]

Based on what?

[pliant hinge]

Imagine on proper "release"

[dusk acorn]

ongoing underworld rennovations

[earnest spindle]

What I'm concerned about is why the gods are helping Zag, they are jerks by greek canon.

[bleak osprey]

thanatos has lines if you die in one of his encounters that suggests he's the one taking zag back to the house, at least in those cases

[pliant hinge]

SGG just hits us with
"Thank you for ride, the real escape was the game itself, for our audience"

[forest meteor]

Yeah, not sure how things are handled when you die IN the Underworld.

[pliant hinge]

time to do philosophical analysis on Hades' themes

[dusk acorn]

i think the gods are helping zag just so that he can beat up hades

[forest meteor]

But the final fight always occurs above ground.

Which means, Charron Boat Trip.

[dusk acorn]

granted the motivation of Chaos is. Well.

[pliant hinge]

It's that simpsons chimp fight meme

[gusty crag]

There was some line that said that all the gods are only helping because they think that zag just wants to meet them and that gives them vain enjoyment

[pliant hinge]

But Hades n Zag with Olympians around

Do Olympians enjoy new Olympians to join them?

[gusty crag]

because they think zag wants to ditch hades for them and that makes them happy

because gods are the worst

[dusk acorn]

i think it's also that the gods kinda hate each other and a bestie to be with them forever and ever sounds great

[forest meteor]

Plus, they're probly all getting soooo sick of each other.

Whup, ninjad!

[dusk acorn]

aphrodite never wears any clothes lmao

[forest meteor]

I hate that actually.

[gusty crag]

Im a fan

[forest meteor]

It seems like a lazy way to depict "Godess of Love".

Even if seduction is part of that.

[earnest spindle]

What I think is something is seriously wrong top side and they need Zag to fix is somehow, but it's probably going to hurt real bad. Like getting chained to a rock and having your liver eaten every day bad.

[pliant hinge]

I am a fan as well

[forest meteor]

But are you a fan for more reasons than "I like naked lady"? 🧐

[earnest spindle]

Though all we know is that it's winter and there is a war that is keeping Than busy

[forest meteor]

They better not be trying to tie Zag to no rock!
I know Artemis sure isn't at least.

[pliant hinge]

I.. uhhh.. uhmmm... Maybe?

[forest meteor]

Fair enough.

[potent cove]

Oh yeah!, I just remembered: a friend of mine suspects there will be another Olympian in the next update and that it'll probably be Demeter

I don't know how likely that is, he was just speculating, but if that ends up being the case,

How would you lot feel about learning about Persephone through her?, she will probably want to help us, just to spite Hades, even if she isn't thrilled we exist

We = the collective Zagreuses

[forest meteor]

There's an image of the next God.

Demeter is almost for certain it.

[dense crown]

a new olympiian is confirmed to come next update, and the teaser looks like it'd proobably demeter

[potent cove]

cool

[dense crown]

http://prntscr.com/qj5aw9

[bleak osprey]

so your friend watched the early access showcase and somehow only 'suspects' a new olympian

:V

[potent cove]

We had a brief conversation about it a week ago, I donno

but anyway: I hope we get to ask her about the Hades and Persephone story in detail, rather than just regular God boon chit chat

and let us ask Hades about it, from his perspective, so we can compare the two

[bleak osprey]

if zagreus tries to ask hades about persephone, he's just going to get stonewalled into oblivion

dude does NOT want to talk about his wife

[potent cove]

I'd like to think neither would give a totally accurate description and we'd have to work out the truth was somewhere between the two

[dense crown]

something bad had to have happenedd between persephone and demeter since pers didnt want to g to olympus

[ocean fulcrum]

I think Persephone must have told Hades she didn't like his mustache, that's why he doesn't wanna talk about her anymore

[potent cove]

If we hear stuff directly from Demeter, Hades won't have as much reason to be quiet on the subject and will probably want to "set the record straight" and defend himself

[surreal swift]

If she doesn't like the facial hair then frankly she's probably just as bad

[pearl plank]

the olympians want Zag to come to olympus cuz zag is a cool bro and everyone loves zag and wants to chill with him

[surreal swift]

Also his feet are on fire sorta and that's cool

[pearl plank]

and also they're probably happy to help spite hades lol

[forest meteor]

Except they routinely try to kill him if he doesn't pick their boon...

[pearl plank]

yeah but you know

he dies all the time anyway

that's more just like a stern finger-wagging

[surreal swift]

That's pretty par for the course in Greek myth

Their egos are gigantic

[pearl plank]

they're jealous moody jerks

[potent cove]

The Olympians definitely have some shady stuff going on, I just can't work out how shady

[forest meteor]

What I'm saying is they want Zag to come there, so he can tell them how chill and cool THEY are.

[surreal swift]

Either shady enough that cluing Zag in is a bad idea, or not shady enough so Hades doesn't bother to say anything

That, or they're bored out of their minds and want to stir up trouble

[forest meteor]

Artemis and Athena being exceptions.

And also Dyo (cus PARTY!)

[potent cove]

Probably just basic: "screw Hades" levels of shade but I wouldn't be totally shocked if it turned out they had nastier motives than that

[surreal swift]

Maybe there's a prophecy or something

[dense crown]

i saw someone on reddit joke that Zag's escape attempts are a party game for the olympians

[surreal swift]

That'd be suitably greek

[forest meteor]

And they're betting their piles of nectar.

[potent cove]

thoughts on possible Demeter boons btw?

[pliant hinge]

"everytime Zag slaps Hades take a shot"

[surreal swift]

Increase the growth rate of wheat

[pliant hinge]

"everytime Zag runs into Hades' spear take two shots"

[surreal swift]

Actually, huh, getting Okami style flower trails that slow enemies could be cool and on-brand

[dense crown]

demeter is sorta plant related, so like rooting enemies maybe?

some kinda interaction with Food

[potent cove]

I drew up a list of ideas for each of the remaining 12 but I suspect they'll do something similar to Speedy Von Stupidhat and not stick to the usual structure for boons

[pliant hinge]

Are the foods modeled after a gyro?

Or a burrito

[surreal swift]

Compromise: Gyrrito

[pliant hinge]

Zagyrro

[potent cove]

Food items would fit with her a quite well but would probably make the game a bit easy

[surreal swift]

Actually it turns out this whole time that Hades wants to stop Zagreus from using the Transistor to reassemble the Bastion in a water-based sport known as Pyre

Anyways, the slow/root thing seems pretty fitting

[pliant hinge]

You get plant budddies to beatenemies

[surreal swift]

Leaving a trail of flowers where you walk that slows enemies, once again, could be super cool

[pliant hinge]

You cast plants a peashooter, which will damage any enemy nearby, prioritizing enemies you are targeting

[surreal swift]

Maybe your dash roots enemies it passes through

[pliant hinge]

That's Hermees boon

[surreal swift]

No wonder that sounded familiar

Hmm

If Demeter is Zagreus' grandma, then the obvious thing is Zagreus getting those hard candies at every old person's house

[potent cove]

I mean: she technically is, but considering that Demeter passionately hates Hades for "stealing her daughter from her" (Read: she's a psychotically overprotective/possessive mum)
she probably isn't gonna be thrilled that Zag... exists...

[pearl plank]

Summoning minions/sentries is a mechanic with some potential I'd say

Root also

[pliant hinge]

You attack causes enemies you sprout spikes which damage enemies hit by them.

I can only think of pvz references help

[pearl plank]

Also if she does have some sort of health related mechanic it'd have to be limited use, not like life steal, maybe like... Chance for troves drop gyros lol

[potent cove]

Well, here's the list I drew up a while ago:

Alternatives:
Ares - Bleed (x damage over x seconds)

Dionysus -
Dominate mind (x% chance of turning target to your side for x seconds) (similar to Unhealthy Fixation but whatever, it suits Dionysus)
or Drunken rage (causes enemies to randomly attack anyone nearby)
or Drunken stupor (causes enemies to drunkenly stumble around instead of walking directly towards you)
or Double vision (generate an illusionary copy of Zag to distract enemies) - (x seconds cooldown)
and so on!!

Ideas for the rest:
Hera - Weakening (reduces enemy defence)
or Jealous rage (Once you hit an enemy, they do contact damage to other enemies)
or Divine Awe or Fear (Prevent enemies from attacking but makes them run away for x seconds)

Demeter - Summon or Ally (x% chance of summoning friendly creature to assist for x seconds)
or Lively step (Leaves a small trail of plants and flowers that hurt enemies behind you)
or Loving protection (Heals a tiny amount more health when you clear a room or walk through a door)

Apollo - Blinding light or poison (reduces enemy speed)?

Hephaestus -
Burning (damage over x seconds) + some explosives - (kinda boring, but functional)
Or Automatons - Summons small, mechanical versions of enemies to fight with you for x seconds at a time - (silly, but not as random as it sounds, there were ancient Greek robot/statue things in the mythology)

Err… someone or other - Mutate or transform (Transforms enemy into a weaker version of themselves for x seconds - kinda like the Unarmed souls in Elysium) - could literally suit anyone since the Greek Gods turn people into animals, inanimate objects and so on, all the time

[pliant hinge]

Gyros on kills?

[pearl plank]

Nah it can't be on kills

That's abusable

[potent cove]

kinda long, sorry

[quaint zealot]

I was talking with some other lad about hepaestus and a fire aspect would make sense

[potent cove]

that is sorta his thing

It is pretty silly but the more I think about the Automaton idea, the more I like it

Just imagine little robot shades popping up to follow you around and whacking people for you~

[sharp bobcat]

I wish zues was more about hard single hits. Like attacks build charge on enemies that detonate if they aren't damaged for a bit (Visually a giant lightning bolt hitting them). Would combo well with anti-armor and stuff.

At the moment zues is just wagging his fingers shocking stuff with his boons, instead of throwing lightning bolts like I'd visualize his powers being like.

[pearl plank]

His call is more like that

[sharp bobcat]

His call is just a bunch of tiny lightning bolts over time

[nova steppe]

hey, when Hades throws the skull at you and it hits you, it seems to be some sort of debuff, with like green affects on the edge of the screen.....anybody know what exactly that does?

[atomic forge]

Boiling Blood.

[nova steppe]

yeah that

[rapid zinc]

It makes you take +50% damage

[nova steppe]

ahh okay thanks

[rapid zinc]

It's the same debuff that your Boiling Blood applies to enemies

[forest meteor]

Apparently Zag can dash out of the Death Pool instead of slow-walking it.
https://ibb.co/njGF5Pk

Who knew?

[vale egret]

LOL i used to keep doing that because i was so angry that i died and impatient to start over

[gusty crag]

I bought the Aphrodite poster and immediately bought her boon and thought she was going to mention it lol

[small shoal]

i cant cheat on meg like that

no horny posters in my room

[devout pilot]

im wondering if zag and meg ever got (interesting, for lack of a better word)

also, on the heart tracker (codex) i have 4 hearts with a god, and the 5th slot has a clock, do i have to wait for something?

[vale egret]

@devout pilot check out the pinned message in the channel

[small shoal]

clocks are unreleased content yes

[devout pilot]

ah

[lime cobalt]

holy finally defeated the final boss for the first time

took me 2 death defiance and 1 tooth but yea

ending kinda funny cus game isnt quite finished yet

[graceful wharf]

good job

[remote knot]

2 dds here Hades is pretty hard

And I had a fightstick and power metal on my side so I don't know how you did it

[atomic forge]

The narrator going off the rails in the last line of the ending card sets you up for Spears? and Fungus? as well as Peel and Ideas.

[pearl plank]

^ whaaaaat?

[dawn lily]

Narrator killed me with a beetle

[summer viper]

Whats the green cracks that appear on the screen when fighting hades

I assumed it was some kinda status effect

But dun know what it is

[dawn lily]

You take +50% damage

Specifically from Hades I think

[atomic forge]

+100%, actually.

[dawn lily]

Ouch

No wonder he's one-shot me on some runs

[atomic forge]

yeah, he goes hard

his mirror is better than yours

[summer viper]

Damn

I thought it slowed me down or smthn

Bruh moment

[fossil quartz]

It's taken me reading that comment to realise the similarities between Zag's bloodstones and Hades' skulls.

[bleak osprey]

personally it took me way too long to realise hades has a phase 2 after his health bar depletes (unlike other bosses) because he’s using a death defiance just like you are

[fossil quartz]

Aw geez. I'm a dumb dumb.

[viscid ore]

Wouldn't that mean he's defying himself? Or... Actually Thanatos is Death right? So are they both defying Than?

IDK, I have head canon that Zag is actually mortal RN, because he's the son of two gods, but nobody's heard of him, so he's not the god OF anything

So he's defying the natural order when he defies death. Where as Hades won't die because he's a god and he just doesn't die

Even the Titans aren't actually dead, just in a ton of itty bit pieces that can't heal

It would explain the red blood thing, as well as why Hades refuses to let his son leave, even though the Underworld doesn't actually have any place or duty for a god to take up. Hades would be forcing the Pact and the repeated trials on him so that it would leak to mortals, and the mortals would dub him, IDK, the god of defiance, or some such. Something that would make him actually a god, and then Papa Hades could safely let his now unkillable son out of the house

[fossil quartz]

I feel like his powers roughly line up with being a demigod.

The fiery steps, the blood crystals, minor appearance stuff.

[atomic forge]

legit a bit annoyed that than doesn't have any special dialogue if you use a dd in one of his contests

[main gulch]

Achilles suspects he is the god of blood

blood being more associated with life than anything

[bleak osprey]

he doesn't have any special dialogue per se but he does say things while the contest is ongoing

[atomic forge]

oh, neat, didn't know that was the case

only happened to me once so far and i didn't hear him say anything nor did subtitles pop up

[bleak osprey]

a few of them actually imply thanatos is the one giving you death defies, imo

like, one of them is "not if i can help it"

[graceful wharf]

Than best boi

[bleak osprey]

you're right

[acoustic condor]

I want Than to say something if you die

Like "I'll bring you home"

In a very soft and tender way

And then I'll fall off my chair and cry for an hour

[bleak osprey]

well do i have news for you!!

[acoustic condor]

WHATS THE NEWS

[bleak osprey]

he does

[acoustic condor]

N O

REALLT?????

[bleak osprey]

mhm!

he has dialogue if you run out of death defies and Actually Die during one of his encounters

[acoustic condor]

Jxjufydxujrnrbdjkisug839kncmxlmx msll.x.x

[atomic forge]

i guess dying in every room has its perks huh

[bleak osprey]

not a full conversation, but, one of the little quips

[graceful wharf]

is this high level bamboozling

[bleak osprey]

no bamboozle

[graceful wharf]

guess i'll die

[rotund talon]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

hades laser beam of doom just zapped me through the little rock bit on the right

like proper glitched through it

[acoustic condor]

Im not even saying a word

I dont want to be kicked for Swears

Also that rock has improper collision

[rotund talon]

not just me then its proper bugged?

damn

[acoustic condor]

Im literally going to combust

[atomic forge]

@rotund talon try the little cubby to the left next time

@bleak osprey WOAH you found out how to extract dialogue?

or you can hug him real close while he's using his omnilaser

[acoustic condor]

Oh my GoOoOoOoOoOoD T H A N

[rotund talon]

yeah was my first time getting to the gardens final boss

[acoustic condor]

T ! H ! A ! N ! A ! T ! O ! S

[bleak osprey]

i have my ways.

[rotund talon]

and just kept going from there

devs know about the rock being buggy? ;-;

[atomic forge]

grats! i haven't heard anyone beat t&a on their first try yet

i assume they do, it's been an issue for a bit

[rotund talon]

was my second time in garden, first time I got to garden i was already low and super dead

[atomic forge]

I have been hitting my head against a wall, trying to use an fsb extractor

to very poor results

[rotund talon]

https://i.imgur.com/T4s1iaP.png

had double shot attack at lvl 5, attack speed n buncha other stuff

was an insane run minus some crappy zues stuff

does multiple casts make the damage on a casted unit stack or nah?

[atomic forge]

no

the +% damage from the mirror is the same no matter the amount of casts embedded in the target

imagine firing your 6 casts and doing +300% damage on every attack

insane

[rotund talon]

XD

[untold sable]

wait, that voice clip

im crying

[atomic forge]

[bleak osprey]

when am i ever not emotional about thanatos!!

[atomic forge]

the preciousest

[graceful wharf]

when SG add even a better boi, but that's impossible

[summer viper]

whys everyone fangirling on Than

[bleak osprey]

because he deserves it

[fickle yoke]

Tomatos?

pfff

that blonde clishe anime boy with a scyth?

i do not think so

[atomic forge]

[acoustic condor]

I believe there's been an error

[tepid granite]

barge of death with extra boss monsters

first time in a while I actually lost a life to regular mobs

[fickle yoke]

well it has her name already

[steady beacon]

If Tomatos is any kind of blond, it's platinum blond - his hair is too silvery to count otherwise.

And if anything, I'd say Zigzag is more of a cliché anime protag. but I still love him.

[fickle yoke]

well it's true

They are like

Zag is like always cool always frindly and always calm and persistant

almost

and Than is like that dude he looks like he doesnt care

but he care most of any

bruh

[storm cipher]

i'm sorry, ||DO YOU REALLY NEED TO KILL SKELLY FOREVER TO GET THE USELESS TRINKET??????????||

[fickle yoke]

yup

[dawn ore]

Just do it

[storm cipher]

im

[fickle yoke]

at least give him what he want

[storm cipher]

wow

[fickle yoke]

what he deserve

[dawn ore]

Do it for him

[storm cipher]

welcome back depression

[dawn ore]

As a friend

[storm cipher]

oaisduais

THE FATES EVEN PAY YOU TO DO IT

IM

[fickle yoke]

it's not cool to sand days and nights in the yard

set him free

[dawn ore]

Yeah

[fickle yoke]

also it's not useless

[dawn ore]

I mean wasting blood on zag aspect sword is kind of a waste in my book

[storm cipher]

oh damn

[dawn ore]

Did you set him free yet?

[atomic helm]

It has been my 91 run,and i am still unable to see the Court Musician release contract,is it common case to everyone?

[storm cipher]

no, i found it way before

have you bought anything at all from the house contractor?

[summer viper]

wait i have to kill skelly over and over again?

[dawn ore]

Upgrade the stygian blade’s Zagreus aspect to max

[summer viper]

cuz i was confused by what the fated prophecy meant

[dawn ore]

Then kill skelly with the maxed out zagreus aspect sword

[summer viper]

whats its max

[dawn ore]

Lvl 5 I think

[summer viper]

bruh

[dawn ore]

Just upgrade the zagreus aspect until it doesn’t let you lol

[summer viper]

ok ig

[acoustic condor]

Its 5 blood to max a Zag aspect

[shy socket]

Zag aspect sword with plume and a good hermes build is the pinnacle of memebuild in this version

You become nyoom

So fast that you crash into lava and elysium damage statues all the time

Its how I died on that build

[fickle yoke]

yes ~50% of dodge is cool

[storm cipher]

okay so, i gave skelly the first ambrosia but he...did not give me the useless trinket

what

is it not from skelly?

[dawn ore]

The useless trinket

Is the statue

[storm cipher]

hhhow do i get it

[dawn ore]

Beat a run with 8 heat I think?

Don’t quote me on that

[storm cipher]

ooooh

i see

[fickle yoke]

hm

i thought i can have only 4 gods boons in a run

[spring scaffold]

You can have as many boons as you want from as many gods as you can find. With some fated authorities, I don't think it's too hard getting boons from more than 4 gods. Not too much of a point to that usually though.

[storm cipher]

speaking of, how do u even get to more than 1k in gems?

it's going to take A Lot

i've gotten to 300 but man it's like, +5 at a time, unless Poseidon helps out with his boon

[fickle yoke]

@storm cipher renovation bonus for chest

[storm cipher]

the shade dealer doesn't really exchange stuff for gems, does it?

what's that?

oh my god i just got it

it's a shady dealer

because..........it's a shade

ohmygod

@fickle yoke you mean the infernal trove?

[fickle yoke]

y

[storm cipher]

it's still very scarce

i get to 300 gemstones and such but 3000?

[fickle yoke]

and 5k

and 2k

u keep tryin and tryin

also u need a LOT of drakness for last upgrade

[paper pawn]

2k columns, 3k fountain, 4k second fountain, 5k liquor cabinet, 14k total if i'm not missing anything?

[tall ingot]

overall I think we could be able to see all the upgrades and make a progress of them like Dead Cells blueprints

[paper pawn]

not counting the minor couple hundred upgrades

[dawn ore]

“What am I? Composed entirely of gemstones?”

[spring scaffold]

With some Poseidon and troves, I once got 357 gems in a single run. So it's doable, just gotta focus on it. The expensive things are useless though, so it's not necessary to actually grind for them.

[dawn ore]

But like, I imagine if you get all the renovations you get a dialogue with Hades

[spring scaffold]

I have no idea. I'm too busy wasting my gems on draperies just to make him angry.

[dawn ore]

Quit changing the blasted drapery!

[spring scaffold]

https://i.imgur.com/wL5dvGS.jpg

[fickle yoke]

also

if Zag is a good

what aspect should be

[spring scaffold]

Wasting like 50 gems after every run, I'm not climbing up very fast

[fickle yoke]

i mean Hades god of the underworld

Zaus is god of lightning

[spring scaffold]

Zagreus is the god of talking back to Hades.

[fickle yoke]

and Zag

[dawn ore]

Zag is Zag. You need nothing more

[fickle yoke]

Alecto said he is god of trash but i do not like such idea

[spring scaffold]

https://i.imgur.com/wkdNzI0.png

[fickle yoke]

but its not his mother

not his brothers

[bleak osprey]

whoops, hold on a sec chou

[dawn ore]

Can’t he be the god of mischief?

[fickle yoke]

Hermes

as i remeber

[bleak osprey]

sorry about that, @spring scaffold , you should be able to talk again

[fickle yoke]

he spammed with links?

[spring scaffold]

Thanks. Didn't know there was a limit on links. Just wanted to show those two (previous one plus this):
https://i.imgur.com/6822kVi.png

I love how Hades has come to acknowledge Zag as the god of talking back to him.

[fickle yoke]

i wanted to ask

[bleak osprey]

if you post links too quickly proxy doesn't like it - it's to stop people from spamming, but sometimes people get caught in it by accident!

[fickle yoke]

why sometimes my bloodstone doesnt stuck in enemies

and fall on the floor instantly

[bleak osprey]

oh neat, i figured that line would have to change after W2H but i hadn't seen the updated one

[austere fox]

hey, anyone interested in .lua modifications?

[vagrant ravine]

Zag is theorized to be the god of life, or maybe just blood, in game I believe.

[acoustic condor]

Im sticking with rebirth myself

[bleak osprey]

the god fo death dating the god of rebirth

[spring scaffold]

The metaphorical goddess of cleaning dating the god of Mess™️

[green mist]

i hope the Supergiant forgives me for diggin in the files of the game but i found Good Riddance sung by Ashley...

And it haunts me now

[austere fox]

lol

[bleak osprey]

someone uploaded eurydice's solo of "good riddance" to youtube already i believe!

ah, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNYOiFoJ0IE

[green mist]

wait

good riddance

oh no

[austere fox]

what did you say lmao

[bleak osprey]

nothing

[somber gull]

Please don’t share datamined spoilers!

[austere fox]

😂

[tall ingot]

its spoiler channel Removed

[bleak osprey]

still not ok

[somber gull]

It is not implemented in the game officially yet so it’s not welcome here even

[austere fox]

someone knows how to play .bank files?

[tall ingot]

RAD

[austere fox]

whats that?

[tall ingot]

its bink , the file format used in a openGL engines

RAD player is a name of the tool

[austere fox]

alright, gonna look for that, thanks

[slim jewel]

Are the Moderators in the channel Devs or just high ranked dedicated players?

[fickle yoke]

2nd i guess

[bleak osprey]

we're not devs!

[austere fox]

are you shades?

[bleak osprey]

some of us

[austere fox]

you're doing a good job!

hopefully lord hades gives you some vacations to elysium

[bleak osprey]

i don't like elysium, everybody tries to fight me there :(

[slim jewel]

Yea seriously, I play alot of games and beta's / Early access stuff and for some reason this game is making me contribute. I have never joined a discord or forum for any game before let alone suggest/report this much. I love the community here.

[bleak osprey]

i have to admit, i don't usually trust early access games, but hades has blown every single one out of the water ^^

[tall ingot]

About the EA games, I only pick up the indie ones. AAA are ... well its for money. Indie are usually to shows that games are still games and These are great. I bought Switch lite just to play Indie games everywhere. I have 25Games on switch and there is no single AAA one.

[somber gull]

Switch is awesome for indie honestly

This is getting a bit #off-topic-discussion tho so I’ll be over there if this convo continues

[open void]

hades as an early access game has been really well handled from what ive seen (mostly read about because i picked it up last month)

the only game ive seen get close to being consistent and listening to feedback was dead cells which also turned out really fun

[austere fox]

@open void agreed, not listening to feedback is a bad move

[open void]

yeah both games had teams that are actively looking for feedback and thats something that makes me sure the games going to be a slam dunk over any promise or "heres an update okay bye for 3 months" like some do

yknow

i kinda feel bad for the zag weapon aspects

more often then not i feel the other aspects are more interesting or just do what the base does but better

unless im just not seeing the 30% movespeed increase point

nemisis aspect on stygius

just seems better

[graceful wharf]

Zag sword is one of the most fun aspect imo, simple but enjoyable

[austere fox]

yeah zag aspect is more utilitarian

[outer sinew]

-off topic
is dead cells worth buying btw?

[austere fox]

worth every penny, go for it

[outer sinew]

i will in the near future then

[fickle yoke]

too hard 4 me

[austere fox]

what is?

[fickle yoke]

dead cells

[austere fox]

oh

good luck 👌

[fickle yoke]

ok 4 heat run with my worst weapon here we go

[austere fox]

which one?

[fickle yoke]

spear

[austere fox]

oh really

well I'm cheering for you

[fickle yoke]

...

[austere fox]

?

[fickle yoke]

start with wrong trinket

restarted the run

[tepid granite]

is there any visual indicator for how many times you've used the legendary keepsake summon in a run

[austere fox]

legendary keepsake summon?

you mean assist?

[graceful wharf]

the number right above its icon

[austere fox]

what's legendary keepsake summon ? @graceful wharf

[tepid granite]

I guess you can call them assists 🤔

[austere fox]

oh alright 👌

[tepid granite]

the number of stars above the icon doesn't go down though

[graceful wharf]

oh it's the reward for gifting some specific people Ambrosia

let me check it

[austere fox]

y but I thought you were talking about something else

anyone interested in .lua modifications?

I feel lonely with no one to talk to

[graceful wharf]

.lua modifications?

@tepid granite my bad the number is right under the star

[austere fox]

you can change how the game works by modifying those files

modding basically

for example I'm looking at Hades's data

I can make him harder by giving all his moves right at the start

etc

[graceful wharf]

oh this is big brain territory, i don't usually fiddle with the files

[austere fox]

well the developers openly let us do it so I'm trying things out

[tepid granite]

@graceful wharf where at? 🤔

[graceful wharf]

hey can you make late game enemies appear sooner by any chance, like Shield dude appear in Asphodel?

[austere fox]

y thats something I can do

[graceful wharf]

small number under the star, it shows how many summons you have left

[austere fox]

should be in encounterData

[graceful wharf]

sick that's exactly what i want for the pact of punishment

[austere fox]

yeah I looked it up you can do that by modifying EnemySets

need any help with it?

[graceful wharf]

neato, thank you i'll check that out

wait a bit

[austere fox]

it's in Hades/Content/Scripts

[graceful wharf]

nice i see it now

[bleak osprey]

a word of warning that it's very easy to break your game doing this and i strongly doubt that you'll be able to get any help with it

[austere fox]

just copy the file you're about to modify and save it somewhere

the worst I got was the game crashing

still alright imo

[graceful wharf]

that's why i always bring a backup

[bleak osprey]

i still wouldn't advise doing it but i can't exactly tell you not to

[austere fox]

if you tell me not to I'll just escape through the window

@graceful wharf so anyway to do what you want I figured if you copied biomeX's enemy sets and overwrite biomeY's enemy sets it should work

[graceful wharf]

i just want to shake up the gameplay a little bit, but thanks for the head-up

i see thanks for the tip

[austere fox]

you're welcome 👌

[somber gull]

If you ever get to a point where something goes very wrong, verify your game. It’ll destroy your mods but it’ll return you to a functional copy.

[austere fox]

^ that's a good tip, saved me many times

[graceful wharf]

now i can spawn kamikaze wheels everywhere, muahahaha

[somber gull]

Yeah, it’s the only solution for a modded copy as the team can’t provide any bug fixes or use the crash reports of an edited game.

[austere fox]

I wonder what's the craziest modifications you can do

[graceful wharf]

i totally forgot about the verify thing, i just reinstall the game in other similar occasions

[austere fox]

does hades have cloud saves?

[atomic forge]

Just a heads up, evading the profanity filter is very much frowned upon.

Yes on Steam, no on Epic.

[austere fox]

theres a profanity filter?

[atomic forge]

Yup.

[austere fox]

hmm good to know

anyway, I like the Thanatos-Zagreus bromance

❤️

spooky boy showing up to one shot enemies is nice

[bleak osprey]

"bro"mance?

[austere fox]

y

[bleak osprey]

take the B off my dude

[austere fox]

haha, another man of culture

romance is with Meg tho

[bleak osprey]

i'm not a man and the romance is with both

[somber gull]

It can be both!

[austere fox]

[graceful wharf]

i only pick one

[austere fox]

I guess gods don't really care about polygamy

[graceful wharf]

and it sure wasn't Meg

[vale egret]

meg says something about it if you choose both

[austere fox]

like a few thousands lmao

[somber gull]

Hey, let’s keep these messages appropriate here!

[austere fox]

thought that word was ok

didn't know you had to choose something at some point

[jade smelt]

guys zag has two hands cmon

[austere fox]

meg has a whip tho

[fickle yoke]

u need 2 hand to handle meg of course

[austere fox]

oh yeah about meg

at some point she told me "you only beat me thanks to the mirror, you only have more help than me, you're not stronger than me, you can't beat me without it..."

[fickle yoke]

Does extreme lvl 3 improve Hydra even more?

[austere fox]

along those lines

does something happen if you beat her with no mirror upgrades?

that would be cool

[bleak osprey]

yes

[austere fox]

thats really cool

didn't know the devs put such special interactions

gonna go mirrorless~

[graceful wharf]

you should have expected it because this is SG we are talking about

[austere fox]

dunno about them until now

I saw the sale so I bought all the games

[lapis smelt]

Good. Once you’re done with Hades play Bastion and Transistor

[solar depot]

yeah honestly i'm so excited for you

[austere fox]

def gonna try all of them since I bought them lmao

[lapis smelt]

Bastion is their first game, Transistor is their second, and Pyre their third

Bastion is a better experience as a whole than Transistor but the gameplay on Transistor is so amazing

Haven’t played Pyre yet though

[austere fox]

but still I really like hades's story

most rogue likes barely have any story and I always thought that was a shame

[graceful wharf]

Pyre story is the best

yeah it's rare to see a roguelike with meaningful story

[austere fox]

they took pretty big liberties with greek mythology but it turned out pretty fun

[atomic forge]

The nice thing about mythology is that they haven't even really taken liberties. There's a dozen different versions of every character in the mythology.

[austere fox]

y, not even including the roman versions

it'd be nice to see more characters

so many cool characters from greek mythology

[graceful wharf]

i hope they add Heracles someday

[lapis smelt]

If they do I won’t be surprised if they made it so that Elysium would act like Tartarus where you can have multiple different bosses

[austere fox]

yeah, I'd love to fight Hercules

[lapis smelt]

Also let us give Asterius nectar plz. He’s very pleasant unlike Theseus.

[austere fox]

maybe Ulysse too

oh man theseus won't ever close his mouth

[lapis smelt]

Also I found the fact that Zag low-key fanboyed when meeting Theseus kind of cute. But then again, never meet your heroes

[austere fox]

achilles has many fan girls too

fan godesses*

[fickle yoke]

2 at least

[graceful wharf]

Hypnos would explode if he ever meet Asterius

[lapis smelt]

Why?

[austere fox]

why?