pom?
#h1-builds-and-combat
rich ibex
knotty blade
Power pom
rich ibex
how
terse thistle
I treat thena aid like an almost get out of jail free card for easy damage
cunning urchin
With poms...
knotty blade
I treat thena aid like an almost get out of jail free card for easy damage
It's free damage
cunning urchin
Any Call gives i-frames on activation.
Athena's Aid just gives i-frames for a longer duration and also deflects damage.
knotty blade
Isn't Athena immortality?
cunning urchin
But you can use any Call to i-frame an incoming attack.
knotty blade
I thought Athena's call was just iframes for the duration
cunning urchin
And deflect.
knotty blade
Yeah
cunning urchin
If you're caught off-guard with your dashes on cooldown, use a Call to i-frame an incoming attack.
knotty blade
Wack
cunning urchin
Poseidon's Aid is also pretty amazing.
knotty blade
How many times can you bonk?
rich ibex
what weapon should i focus on maxing or building for a first clear
i like close combat but i often get to low health and die
cunning urchin
Dash-Strike Power Shots for base bow and Zag Bow.
knotty blade
Whys dash strike better than regular?
cunning urchin
Charges a lot faster and gets bonus damage from Dash-Strike boons.
knotty blade
Oh
cunning urchin
That is, from Hunter Dash and from Lunge boons from Master Chaos.
Also for mobility.
knotty blade
I always flub the timing with the power shot
cunning urchin
Yeah, it takes practice.
knotty blade
Oh yeah chaos
cunning urchin
Try to get into a rhythm of dash > dash > hold Attack > Power Shot > repeat.
And try to get as many Lunge and Strike boons from Master Chaos as you can.
cunning urchin
i like close combat but i often get to low health and die
Try Eris maybe. Very aggressive, very powerful, but also allows you to get kills from far when you need some safety.
Build is generally Lightning Strike, Static Discharge, Tidal Dash and any decent % Special (but not Tempest Flourish).
rich ibex
ok
cunning urchin
And then lots of poms on your Tidal Dash and maybe a couple on Static Discharge.
rich ibex
also what build would you reccomend for aspect of nemisis
cunning urchin
Deadly Strike, Heartbreak Flourish, Heart Rend, Hunter's Mark, and as many Strike and Lunge boons from Master Chaos as you can get.
DPS rotation is Special > Dash-Strike x2 > repeat.
knotty blade
I like punch weapon with the magnetic buff
cunning urchin
Hunter Dash for damage is great. Divine Dash for safety is also great. Probably ignore any other Dash boons.
knotty blade
Oh yeah does magnetic punch work for the like mirror debuff buff?
cunning urchin
Cast doesn't really matter. A good Call can be nice, but don't take one that unlocks a Duo Boon with Lady Artemis and Lady Aphrodite if you don't have Heart Rend yet... unless it's Zeus' Aid because that unlocks Smoldering Air, and Smoldering Air is broken in all the good ways.
cunning urchin
Oh yeah does magnetic punch work for the like mirror debuff buff?
Nope.
cunning urchin
Only the status curses in this list: https://hades.gamepedia.com/Status_effects#Status_Curses
Meaning every god has one curse.
4 of them are tier 1, 4 are tier 2.
The 4 tier 2 status curses always a 50% chance of being offered if you have a boon that's a requirement for them.
cunning urchin
Tier 1 as in doesn't require another boon.
Tier 2 means one out of a few boons is required to unlock it.
Tier 3 means legendary or duo, so 2 boons are required.
knotty blade
Oh
terse thistle
duo and legendary boons usually end up making things much more manageable
just watch the boss health bar melt in 30 seconds if not less
last dirge
The tier 2 curses are generally more complex
And sometimes very strong
Sometimes literally just for privileged status, like Athena's is inert unless you do backstabs while it is active
But the base curses are easy to apply and two are direct immediate dot
Hangover also is a super supported curse
I think it has the most interactions and ways to increase damage from other gods
Curse of Nausea and Low Tolerance for example
cunning urchin
Four tier 3 boons that interact with Hangover.
Low Tolerance, Splitting Headache Curse of Nausea, and Black Out.
oblique sierra
Is there a meta for aspect of demeter?
oblique sierra
sterile fiber
try this
cunning urchin
Pretty sure they don't usually want to pin things like that because they don't really want to give the impression of favoring one playstyle over another.
oblique sierra
I see
well there are builds that are objectively better with certain aspects
but oh well
little vault
How does shackle zag bow with hunter’s mark sound?
Wouldn’t that do more damage than pretty much all attack because of the 2X boost and the base crit chance?
lucid oar
Shackle is the same as unpommed epic Aphrodite attack
And a lot of strong zag bow hammers have increased additive damage, meaning deadly strike is the best option
little vault
Ah interesting
Does deadly reversal only grant the increased crit chance on all attacks like pressure point or does it only increase chances on things that already have the ability to crit
little vault
Ok cool
oblique sierra
But ME is a bit sad
sad why
shell sleet
its quite difficult to get since the only way to have it offered is ares attack athena spec or ares spec athena attack
so its less accessible than pretty much every other duo boon
last dirge
Other stuff works on Demeter. Be creative really
Eg Deadly Reversal, Athena attack, Artemis special
Low Tolerance, Dionysus attack, Aphrodite special
You want something that scales and works well on attack
Usually a curse or effect with no percent damage like Dio or Zeus
Then percent damage on special
Demeter^2 works fine tbh. Really on attack since Demeter is kinda mid
Whatever on attack
You dont need duos of course
proven osprey
sad why
While it's the build that has the most damage potential, it requires a lot. Curse of agony, poms on it, divine flourish just to enable the duo, divine dash to proc ME. Then you'll probably need impending doom. And more and more poms
bronze marten
it has a lot of upside, but you can't say you're gonna go merciful end this run and be 100% sure you'll get it up and running even with gods legacy
its got like two parts more than the average rube goldberg death machine this game creates
even though its stronger on rail, zeus attack aphro special into smoldering prob wins, and thats easier to get than ME death engine
i guess meme beam also has a lot of parts
and remembering to get a source of chill so arctic blast can spawn, glacial glare doesnt count 
cunning urchin
Most reliable way of getting Merciful End might be Fated Authority + Gods' Legacy.
teal cipher
Had a weird unintended synergy in my last run, 5 dashes with a blade rift, ended up picking up a hammer that reduced my dash range by 25 percent. Was able to spam blade rifts in a tiny concentrated spot and it added a ton of damage to my dps without me even considering it
Kinda wanna try and go for a wacky build using it, cause the blade rifts werent anywhere close to their boon potential
cunning urchin
Serrated Point is the hammer.
Gilgamesh has reduced dash distance from the start and gives you more dashes from the start.
So you could try going for it with that. It's usually the go-to aspect for dash builds.
teal cipher
Oh sick I didnt know that, ive revealed Gilgamesh but not actually used it yet, ill definitely give that a go
valid dagger
real onyx
is Holy Excalibur any good?
last dirge
Yeah it just plays differently
It has really really high base damage
It doesnt need hammers really is its benefit imo
And it will probably get you the highest numbers. The third hit of the attack combo is a pretty huge area and 200 base damage
But I've even done dash strike builds
You could do special builds
That is more hammer dependant. So is dash strikes.
You really want double nova since it's much slower
Dash strikes really needs double edge
Either way I'd recommend just starting with aphrodite
Lean into the high damage and damage mitigation
Maybe get Life Affirmation if its epic and get silly high hp
And Hermes' Swift boons become very good
If you get them epic, they make the gameplay considerably more fluid
real onyx
makes sense
thanks!
also
I still can't do bows
I think I'm giving up on them
it's just too weird to play
split radish
does zag aspect shield increase bull rush damage or is that seperate? I haven't played Hades in a long while
real onyx
but how do I get Rama Bow
last dirge
Its the hidden aspect
You need the hidden spear aspect first
Which needs 5 blood in spear and all weapons unlocked
Then 5 blood in bow and iirc speaking to Artemis with the bow will give you the unlock for it
real onyx
ok, I got the spear and sword aspects
cunning urchin
Then 5 blood in bow and iirc speaking to Artemis with the bow will give you the ...
You don't need to be wielding the bow when you talk to her, just gotta talk to her.
foggy cosmos
so i watched a video where the guy said that it's better to focus on one attack only, i.e., just level up your special or your main, and don't smash the buttons. but the more i see about the community and the aspects of weapons, it seems you're expected to use combos
cunning urchin
With zero context, I can't really comment on that.
It's probably helpful advice for beginners to help them focus on just finding whatever does the best damage and buffing that to have a more focused build.
cunning urchin
Shouldn't be a problem.
I've never heard of that person, which right away makes me suspicious of the quality of any guides. I'll have a look, though.
I think a good gauge is always are they known in the community, do they speedrun or maybe do high heat and know the meta? It's definitely not a requirement, but it's always good assurance that they know what they're talking about if they can back it up with gameplay or if they can reference other players or the community meta.
cunning urchin
Haelian has some video guides out, and he was the top player for probably most of Early Access. Jawless Paul also has some popular video guides and has been around since forever, although I haven't personally watched any of them tbh.
foggy cosmos
that's also why I'm not sure if i should try to make combos
cunning urchin
Yeah, at a high level, there's typically some DPS rotation that you do, but it always depends on the aspect and the build you're going for.
Like sword basic DPS rotations would be Special > Dash-Strike x2 and Cast > Dash-Strike, for example.
worn solar
well a lot of the times it benefits to invest mostly in one or two parts of your build
but like dont pom your attack to lvl 10
cunning urchin
Zag Bow and Hera pretty much just use Dash-Strikes and ignore the Special almost completely, though.
worn solar
you get diminishing return with poms. its mainly about tier 2 boons and duos and legendaries
like with zeus you want his t2 boons and splitting bolt or if you have doom on attack youll want to go for merciful end and impending doom
cunning urchin
I'd say a better rule of thumb for poms is to pom boons that do flat damage over boons that have % damage.
worn solar
artemis attack pom scaling 
cunning urchin
Yeah, that one is sad lol.
And then eventually you'll learn about specific boons that have amazing pom scaling and also do a good amount of your damage, so you'd want to prioritize those.
But that depends on the build you're going for.
A simple example is Tidal Dash. Pretty much any build that uses Tidal Dash wants to prioritize poms on that.
If Doom or Hangover is your primary source of damage, then you want to prioritize poms on that.
If it's Lightning Strike, though, then 1-2 poms on that are fine, but you really want to get his tier 2 boon Static Discharge asap and pom that one quite a bit. Poms on Thunder Flourish are a little better than Lightning Strike if instead Thunder Flourish is a primary source of damage in your build, but even then, you'd want to get Static Discharge asap.
But also, if you have Lord Zeus in your build, then going for his legendary Splitting Bolt or the Duo Boon Smoldering Air can be incredibly strong.
So you pick up on those routes as you play more and discuss builds and stuff. If my build is focused on that, then these boons are good routes to shoot for to scale my damage and these are the boons I really want to pom.
last dirge
Some stuff combos well
Sometimes you can literally press one attack button and dash
Or just dash strikes
Specializing really isnt necessary though
There arent enough majorly contirbutive boons in each god's pool alone. Duos are where a lot of power can come from
Especially stacked duos using the same core god (like getting Artemis duos that all increase crit chance or damage)
Not specialized at all but if you get lucky and get those, you've basically already won
Instead I'd recommend learning most boons and starting with the keepsake of the God you think will work best for you
You want to build around that rather than specialize.
Ideally you will get a higher rarity attack or special boon of the god you want for duos, and the right damage type for the attack speed/damage basically
Flat damage is for faster weapon attacks (Dionysus), percentage damage is for slower/hard hitting attacks (Aphrodite)
Generally if you go against that it wont feel great unless you can really lean into it
For example, Dionysus on attack and Aphrodite on special on the basic sword
Reversing those could work but it wont be as good
proven osprey
You built walls but who paid for it?
bronze marten
You built walls but who paid for it?
Probably Tristan
thorny coral
Haelian has some video guides out, and he was the top player for probably most o...
Duunk0
thorny coral
Zeus shield is the ultimate Merciful End weapon
because you can pick curse of pain instead of agony, which is, in itself, a benefit
foggy cosmos
what does curse of pain do
thorny coral
it's a doom on special
which has higher base damage and better pomming
so basically you don't even really need impending doom
proven osprey
what does curse of pain do
It allows you to draw two more cards
real onyx
need help
how to play Rama Bow
I can't play the other bow types cause I don't like bow
but people told me this is different
turbid needle
if you cant play bow rama bow wont be different
unless they meant special spam
you can do that
its not the best way of playing though
turbid needle
I can recommend zeus, dio, demeter and ares on special
normally you tag enemies with the special and then hit them with bow dash strikes
last dirge
Rama lets you focus on curse application instead of dash strikes
You just need a few ideally group PB dash strikes
And yeah with a strong special with flat dmg and like minimal limitations, you can just do special and do surprising dps
Since I assume you have a low lvl Rama, really just try special only lol
Get Zeus and more Zeus
Relentless Volley maybe but it isnt necessary
Its just the only special hammer Rama can get
turbid needle
I guess you dash strike less but the dash strikes are harder to get
last dirge
Yeah
turbid needle
its harder than normal bow tbh
last dirge
And dont bother with perfect shots
Yeah but it feels different enough imo
Do mid shots
Point blank even off the hip in the middle of a dash
turbid needle
nah perfect shots are good to get on rama
proven osprey
last dirge
True but they're just starting and dont have full shared suffering
So you probably need power shots to kill groups in one shot
But that takes like 8 seconds lol
valid dagger
It's good to get used to powershots so you can play Rama properly
proven osprey
Two or three special, power shot and that's it
last dirge
That seems like bad advice starting off. They're gonna get hit if they dont practice.
proven osprey
Ofc you powershot
last dirge
If you can yeah
proven osprey
You can because you make the opportunity
last dirge
Yeah. It just takes it's own practice
proven osprey
Sometimes you don't because you miscalculated and that's ok
Better than getting hit
last dirge
You need to get the very slow charging attack dash strike off before the enemy(s) you are attacking can hit you
proven osprey
Or if an enemy has 2 HP maybe you don't power shot 
last dirge
So you need to consider your space, range, and their speed etc
valid dagger
Rama powershots off of dash strikes arent even that slow
last dirge
Thats why I recommend just playing with special first. An low level Rama is fine but its gonna be a little less strong ofc
valid dagger
If you have no forced overtime it makes the game a literal joke
last dirge
Maybe I just think they're slow
True but you can do that without power shots too
Like I think I didnt even need them all the time when I randomly picked up 20 heat after playing no heat for a long time
The damage output of a mid shot and a good special killed them
So why would I powershot if I dont need the damage
valid dagger
You can, but as I said earlier it's good to get used to playing the weapon optimally
last dirge
Eh is overkill optimal
Like it can not be overkill
At high heat
But its overkill at low heat
valid dagger
Getting a good special build going is also tough sometimes
Idk, clearing a room with 1 arrow sounds more optimal than spamming special for 40 seconds
last dirge
Rama is very flexible in that way imo. It can do exactly the damage you need.
You're using special as usual
You just have dionysus or whatever on it so enemies easily get a few stacks
valid dagger
You are, but I dont need to Special each enemy multiple times
last dirge
You dont yeah
valid dagger
Just the base boonless special is enough to bounce reasonably well to mark a room quickly
last dirge
It just happens from ricochet
Yeah
You could go both ways on this tbh. Maybe practicing power shots with low SS is good practice
Because you probably need powershots to actually do big group kills
Oh, and remember it's always good to use your special
It adds even single target dps
It works on groups and bosses equally well
real onyx
Rama feels a bit better
than the other bows
not great
but better
I gather that "mark everything then dash-strike" is the best
but if you stack flat damage on special, it's an alright way to play
proven osprey
Not great
bronze marten
Only weapon I like is Zag Sword
Then run with it, you’ll get more comfortable as time goes on
🙂
cunning urchin
@worn solar Heartbreak Strike drops to 4% per pom, Deadly Strike drops to effectively 5% per pom due to crits.
Obviously Drunken Strike at Lv.46 would be a whole lot better, though.
bronze marten
Meme beam and hangover will take as many as they can get tho right
Until glacial glare w Stygian at least meme beam my beloved
cunning urchin
It's a Lv.46 Deadly Strike and you could get just as much Attack bonus from 2 Chaos boons lol.
turbid needle
I was initially gonna go with Drunken Strike but I thought that the poms would get so worse at some point, I'd be better off with percentage stuff
cunning urchin
Hangover poms are always at least +1.
turbid needle
On second thought, maybe I should attempt this again
Well I know that but in my mind +1 start becoming a lot less useful at some point in the game
but perhaps far more useful than what I ended up running with
valid dagger
Drunken strike at lv40 would be insane
cunning urchin
8 ticks in 4 seconds, so that's basically +8 damage per pom.
First pom I think is +2.
Epic Lv.46 would be 52 Hangover damage..
Over 4 seconds, that's 416 damage from one hit.
- your base sword damage.
bronze marten
Poggers
main marsh
anyone have a good chiron bow build??
bronze marten
anyone have a good chiron bow build??
Dionysus special aphro attack low tolerance go brr
Or Artemis special for heart rend
Or aphro special and Zeus call into smoldering
main marsh
Dionysus special aphro attack low tolerance go brr
ima go try that rn
main marsh
Or aphro special and Zeus call into smoldering
i have never understood smoldering air like, why do you want your call to be capped at 25%???
proven osprey
because 99% of the time a lesser call is better
It's more frequent, it's iframe on use and generally more damage
foggy cosmos
first beat without skelly tooth
i feel like a big boy now
almost made it without deaths too, didn't take much damage on the first phase
but the second one got me nervous
main marsh
because 99% of the time a lesser call is better
yea but... there is a hermes boon that does it without the cap
bronze marten
i have never understood smoldering air like, why do you want your call to be cap...
Because it auto recharges and means you get a full bar in 5 seconds. The hermes one takes 25 seconds to auto charge
At epic
You don’t want to use it with Aphrodite or Artemis calls, for best results use Zeus or Poseidon or Athena calls
main marsh
Because it auto recharges and means you get a full bar in 5 seconds. The hermes ...
oHHHH ok
proven osprey
and the cap is not a problem in itself
bronze marten
Imagine having a 5 second cool down for lightning blast power
proven osprey
greater calls are just not good in general
bronze marten
Rather than charge it forever
Greater calls are usually by accident unless Artemis or aphro aid
Or if you’re going for that achievement on steam
last dirge
Lord Zeus!
valid dagger
Yea something like Zeus Dio calls are much better in lesser
If you use greater call you’ll probably waste half of it
bronze marten
Yep. Poseidon call with it carried me through 32 heat with em4 because I was reckless
Greater call is awesome with Artemis call if you have a crit buff in the dad fight that’s about it
main marsh
Greater call is awesome with Artemis call if you have a crit buff in the dad fig...
yeah
valid dagger
Yea Artemis lesser calls are so bad lol
bronze marten
Yeah, but it isn’t exactly lightning blast cool downs
But yeah smoldering is one of the best boons in the game
It can straight up hard carry you
Athena aid is basically imagine playing Mario kart but you have a Star w smoldering
main marsh
by the way, something i have had on my head for a long time... does pressure points affect dash damage??
bronze marten
by the way, something i have had on my head for a long time... does pressure poi...
Yup@
Call damage too
last dirge
Global damage and crit notably dont effect summons
They effect basically everything else
Thanatos can even crit with Hunter's Mark
The NPC
The summon cant crit
Doom dmg crits for 2x. Most everything else is 3x
valid dagger
Trippy Flare is x2 too
last dirge
Good to know
unreal tree
Doom dmg crits for 2x. Most everything else is 3x
Doom is 3x
Its just the trippy flare nonsense for now
blazing elm
Is there anyone who uses the bow who can explain what I'm not understanding. I think I've now tried every attack boon I can think of and it just seems horribly weak for something that requires you to stand in one place so long and charge up. I mean the range isn't even much better than the spear. So what am I not getting? (Also not trying to sound like I'm just dissing your favorite weapon, I'm honestly assuming there is a secret I don't know)
proven osprey
Yeah
Do not perfom standing attack
Try to go for a powershot from a dash strike, especially for Zag bow and Rama
Chiron and Hera deals damage differently even though you still dash strike
blazing elm
dash strike with the bow? I mean you still end up standing there and correct me if I'm wrong but it's a much weaker strike which is already kind of the problem with it. Might as well dash around and only use the spread shot it feels like.
unreal tree
Bow relies a lot on good hammers, which arent hard to come by
valid dagger
Dash striking takes less time to charge
Once you get used to the positionning you really aren’t vulnerable
blazing elm
What hammers, because that's another thing. All I've ever found is stuff that basically creates different types of spreads that just give me more arrows to miss more enemies with.
proven osprey
Point blank / Twin shot / Triple Shot / Perfect Shot
unreal tree
Flurry also great
proven osprey
On Zag, Flurry / explosive
proven osprey
also you have crit so you just go deadly strike, line up enemies, crit with 50 base damage
that's just strong
blazing elm
hm alright. So how are you supposed to dash strike? I mean are you dashing away and somehow turning and firing? it feels very awkward
proven osprey
Zag bow is the best Zag aspect by far
actually zag shield
but I'd rather uninstall than playing that
unreal tree
hm alright. So how are you supposed to dash strike? I mean are you dashing away ...
You'II get used to it real quick honestly
valid dagger
But yea it’s just pressing attack after you dash
You can notice from the charge time or the way zag is holding the bow (vertical = dash strike)
unreal tree
Dash to shoot on rama 
blazing elm
I guess I always dash strike by pressing both buttons at teh same time. More reliable for me and I think that's messing me up. Honestly I don't dash strike or take those options as much as other people do I guess.
proven osprey
Bad habit on bow yeah
blazing elm
hm well thanks. Maybe bow will just never be for me.
valid dagger
Tough to break habits sometimes because you might do worse with the weapon at first but it definitely gets easier
You would be dash striking and powershotting without thinking at all tbh
Could be worth checking some vods, it helps
blazing elm
I'll probably figure it out one day but for now I think I'm switching between weapons too much as it is. But every once in awhile I go with the dark thirst option and I was just struck by how many shots regular enemies seemed to take.
last dirge
Well missing is the issue
blazing elm
I know a lot of people say it has stupid amounts of power so I figured there was some secret
blazing elm
right now Poseidon
worn solar
uhhhh
blazing elm
and aphrodite on special
worn solar
Poseidon has the lowest %
blazing elm
but that's just what I ended up with this time
blazing elm
yeah I wanted to, trust me
blazing elm
but I have run aphro on attack and didn't feel much different
last dirge
It's the difference of a few hundred damage
blazing elm
but maybe it was low lvl I don't remember
last dirge
Maybe yeah
blazing elm
yeah fair
last dirge
Powershots will also scale better with high percent damage
Since its higher base damage
blazing elm
I'll give it a couple more runs. I'll use the charm and get aphro on attack
last dirge
Getting that down and power shotting like 90% of the time, dash striking of course, and it'll feel strong
blazing elm
yeah for attack and special who do you like to go for.
last dirge
And if you still dont like it, get flurry shot
I like Artemis on attack usually
Really depends on the duo
Then like Dionysus on special. Aphrodite works too
blazing elm
I hate relying on crits though
blazing elm
ah right forgot about the mark thing
last dirge
Yeah it's really essential to her builds
Then heart rend makes your crits do 450% dmg instead of 300%
Now you're powershoting for like 900 damage
blazing elm
I think that fact that I am still pretty early and don't have any aspects with crit bonuses unlocked past first level for anything really
last dirge
Yeah
last dirge
Rama for example does massive on hit damage on attack in exchange for a much slower charge
blazing elm
how slow we talking?
worn solar
hammers matter a lot for bow damage
blazing elm
because the bow is slow enough.
I see
I think hammers have been my problem honestly
worn solar
bow is far from slow
last dirge
Its considerably slower. At least 2x I'd say
But your special makes everyone hit by it share attack damage
So it works out really well
worn solar
unless youre being offered nothing but specual hammers and sniper shot there are plenty good hammers
blazing elm
that is pretty sweet but awkward to use I imagine
last dirge
Nah it feels good once you get used to it
proven osprey
it's one of the best aspects
worn solar
it just requires good positioning
last dirge
For sure. Its comfy
Yeah. extra dashes always help, but extra dashes on Rama are amazing
blazing elm
well as soon as I get a million more titan blood
worn solar
hera bow doesnt need any levels in it
last dirge
Makes positioning a breeze
Yeah
That's much more interesting than base
Bow can be really fast honestly
I've done some zag aspect flurry shot builds that just work
Zag aspect gets 15% crit on attack at max upgrade
Like flurry and twin shot
Super good
You dont even need to powershot anymore
blazing elm
what is flurry shot on the bow. Don't think i've seen that one
blazing elm
nice
worn solar
makes the bow fire like a slow rail basically
last dirge
Not weak. They still have some solid base damage
Yeah
They hit a bit harder than rail
worn solar
you just dont get powershot damage
last dirge
Yeah
worn solar
but the firerate is higher
blazing elm
big fan of all the hold attack and go brrrr weapons
last dirge
A fun one with upgraded zag and flurry could be like
worn solar
guess you can do special rama
last dirge
Dionysus attack, splitting headache
worn solar
last dirge
Ramping crit is fun
worn solar
dio attack
last dirge
Its flurry
worn solar
you still have like 50 base damage
last dirge
The scaling works better
worn solar
the scaling definitely doesnt work better...
blazing elm
yeah can you see weapon base attacks anywhere or you just have to go hit skelly
last dirge
Then just go Artemis or aphro
last dirge
I think dio is also just special in flat dmg because it scales so well
blazing elm
yeah arent dio and aphro best for damage scaling?
last dirge
Aphro has the best base dmg usually
blazing elm
honestly damage scaling for slow and high flat vs fast and low power and then how that works with the different boons eludes me
last dirge
For some reason tempest flourish is also huge
Its just hit rate vs damage
More hits means more flat damage hits
worn solar
its dps that matters
last dirge
Dionysus boons are dot so they cant really start scaling by fractions
So high pom Dio boons still get +1 hangover per pom
Hangover is also the most supported curse
blazing elm
so more flat damage always better whether on fast or slow attack and if it's a percentage increase you want it on whatever your high power attacks are
last dirge
Lots of ways to improve it with other gods
worn solar
flat damage is good when base damage is low
last dirge
Yeah. And usually low base damage is also rapid damage
So it stacks or applies faster
Even with hangover stack limits and the cooldown on bolts
Rama special for example does like 5 base damage
blazing elm
yeah i tend to go with chain lighting on attack with fists or flurry spear a lot but I'd like to switch it up
worn solar
well the faster you hit the faster you waste hangover stacks
last dirge
With a good Aphro special you get like +200% damage
That's still 15
With a good Zeus special it's like +60 damage
It's not gonna be every hit, but it effectively is with Double Strike
Which chains bolts basically
But like 200% of a rocket bomb
80 base damage
blazing elm
oh now I found patroclus. I have to keep playing with this crappy build
last dirge
That's +160 damage
Lol
It happens honestly
I've done Rama aphro special
For charm
The charm didn't help
I think I got Artemis attack and started just using that
Does that example make sense? With a percentage boon a very rapid 5 base damage only becomes max 15 damage. With a good flat damage boon it can be 65.
That's why flat damage works better on that damage archetype
Rapid and weak
blazing elm
yeah I think I get it. And things that you want to stack as well I guess.
worn solar
well if you had an attack that hit every 2 seconds for 10 damage youd still want flat damage aka doom
blazing elm
right
worn solar
so it doesnt really matter if its rapid for percent vs flat
worn solar
rapid hits means more damage but doesnt really effect the match up other than lost returns attacking too quickly with hangover or zeus
yeah there arent lol
just saying attack speed isnt the important factor
isnt
blazing elm
um the spear throw?
blazing elm
well played a lot of spear and I'll say doom feels good on that throw
last dirge
Fair. But if you get like charged skewer
You go aphro or artemis
That can do upwards of like 1500 damage
worn solar
well explosivenlauncher for non hidden
blazing elm
oh right because doom wouldn't get the percentage increase?
worn solar
yeah
last dirge
I forget not all spears have explosive built in
worn solar
doom generally has a good matchup against percent anyways tbh
blazing elm
or wait which one is charged skewer?
worn solar
but if youre spamming special with good hammers then it loses out
last dirge
Charged skewer makes you charge your special like a bow
worn solar
increases base dmg by like 200% for a max charge
blazing elm
oh I don't think I've used that one?
last dirge
Explosive makes it a single bolt of energy instead of a in-out motion
It's a good one
worn solar
but it takes the same amount of time charging to max as the wind up of the reg throw
blazing elm
I usually just use the throw as a drive by dooming while I reset my bonus damage
last dirge
You just throw explosive. Charged gives you amazing range and up to +200% dmg
Explosive is like 60 or 80 base?
worn solar
I usually just use the throw as a drive by dooming while I reset my bonus damage
achilles doesnt have charged or explosive so thatd be why
worn solar
Explosive is like 60 or 80 base?
think its 50
blazing elm
makes sense
last dirge
Yeah
worn solar
doom works well on achilles special
usually you dont care much about its special boon unless it opens up a good duo
last dirge
Yeah
worn solar
if putting on the special opens some duo you dont want then tbh dont bother
blazing elm
at this point I think I'm too locked in to the throw putting me where the spear is I could never do any of the others
worn solar
ah yes 180° lock on
last dirge
I had an absolutely perfect crush shot build with every possible good boon for it
Threw myself into a pot one too many times
blazing elm
yeah but it really screws with my brain trying to switch back and forth
last dirge
That's fine
worn solar
well not like you need to play the other spears but trying out different things can be fun
blazing elm
throw the spear and look where it is and get killed back where I am
last dirge
Explosive helps with that
blazing elm
oh yeah I do it on everything else almost
last dirge
I guess spear doesnt have great attack and special options base
Hades spear is honestly good though
Try that with explosive launcher
Get like Artemis attack Aphro special
Get Mark and Heart Rend if you can
blazing elm
Spear is definitely about the hammers but I find almost all the hammers for it are amazing
worn solar
or just ME
last dirge
Spin, hopefully get a crit, chain down enemies with special vs mark for massive damage
Fair
Like doom on attack? How would you even do MEdes
worn solar
yeah
blazing elm
yeah I'll give it a shot
worn solar
you can also do dashstrike > special with explosive launcher
worn solar
yeah
last dirge
You go like small spin into dash into special throw
blazing elm
I'm never going to be good enough to be getting very specific with the combos
blazing elm
to be honest this is the first non turn based game i've "finished" in years
last dirge
Fair. Same kinda
blazing elm
I thought I hated rougelikes
last dirge
Well I guess I beat all of BoI but I started that when it was still a flash game
You can play mostly roguelikes and hate roguelikes tbh
I'd kill for anything that is totally anti-roguelike right now lol
blazing elm
frankly I was just pleased to find out that my reflexes were actually capable of improving.
last dirge
Like a mostly linear rpg with a very obvious meta
For sure yeah. Dont worry about losing early really
It's a roguelike
It takes a lot of work to do a fresh save clear for example
Its hard to even do mirrorless
So starting of course its hard
You dont have reflexes or the upgrades
blazing elm
yeah I'm very much in the grindy/figure out the math stage now
last dirge
A lot of it is getting past a certain dash habit
First you dont dash enough or well because you dont know how
Then you start dashing constantly
blazing elm
because it's like diablo at this point and it's real obvious when the "build" is actually working and I only get there by luck at teh moment
last dirge
You need to get past that and kinda dash a lot, but with purpose
blazing elm
yeah that was when I realized I was getting better was when I was actually looking where I was dashing to
last dirge
You're dashing to get somewhere or do something
blazing elm
I'm not always in that zone but I recognize it when it happens now
worn solar
also like enemy patterns. its really hard to deal with forced overtime which just reactions
last dirge
So getting that down also really helps
Yeah
A lot is knowing what damage you can do before dashing again
That comes down to knowing enemy speeds and attack rates
worn solar
so you kinda got to learn when enemies will attack and what attacks theyll use so you can predict them and dash beforehand
last dirge
Practice on the big orange guys if you need to
They're very slow and easily tricked
Then you can move onto asphodel enemies naturally
Which hit hard but only really from the front
And like to lure you around too
worn solar
yeah tartarus enemies have pretty simple patterns
blazing elm
really dealing with like the last half of elysium and styx are my hurdles at this point.
for enemies
last dirge
Then Elysium you need to have good dashes for chariots/flame wheels, bow men, shields
blazing elm
styx rooms kill me without artemis dash everytime
last dirge
Styx of course. You really want to learn to dash the satyr spit
And you can kinda figure out the safe spots in vermin poison
blazing elm
yeah I hate saytrs more than anything for sure
last dirge
Some spots are clean even if they dont look like it. Usually the intersections of multiple piles
I found out recently that the big satyr miniboss can ignore shields
Either I didnt pay attention or didnt play like that
blazing elm
if I have to go into a miniboss room in styx I consider the run over
I never beat the old man after that
worn solar
satyrs is pretty much just paying attention to their sound queue
blazing elm
actually while I got you all here, what sword aspect and builds make it fun?
tried Poseidon, but It's sort of just the one thing
is arthur any good?
worn solar
heartrend nemesis, merciful end on any of them. arthur you can just stick on aphro attack and athena dash with dmg resis biins and face tank most stuff while in the special really
blazing elm
hm alright. it always sort of feels like slower, weaker fists with the same range. Does arthur have more power?
worn solar
well nemesis is a alot stronger than fists
though kinda need double edge
arthur has has pretty good base dmg if you use the combo sequence
blazing elm
nemesis is stronger factoring in crits or base damage? because the fists special is definitely stronger, hugely so if we're talking demeter charged special
last dirge
Crits after special
Arthur is stronger because it has some of the highest base damage
200 on the 3rd combo
blazing elm
oh awesome that sounds worth trying
I always feel like sword is just the worst defensively for some reason so maybe the aura and extra life will help
steady summit
Is getting merciful end first room of asphodel good
steady summit
If you buy a Hermes boon in the shop are you still guaranteed to see two as room options
lone jetty
No you could get one more (from Chambers or shops) before Styx, and possibly a 3rd in the Styx shop
steady summit
So is it ever worth it to buy Hermes from shops early?
proper furnace
I do if i can
Early extra dashes or just having hyper sprint for possible not so late RD is good enough for me
Or quick reload on hera and etc
lone jetty
Yeah if you can buy it and can think of some way Hermes might help, go for it
worn solar
buying hermes in a shop means he wont be as likely to later on replace a boon you want or something
last dirge
What would be optimal then? Hermes in Asphodel shop, into Eurydice, into another Hermes in Asphodel and then your last at the start of Elysium, the last 2 under Nectar?
You get 3 Hermes boons, two with boosted rarity and one/two less boons in the pool
Though I think this would depend on what you want
Do Legendaries just override lower rarity boons or can they be replaced?
Like is it just a card shuffle and you draw the Legendary card? If not, then you would either roll Bad News or you wouldn't.
Getting Eurydice and a pre-req would be what matters
candid belfry
buying hermes in a shop means he wont be as likely to later on replace a boon yo...
he is replacing a boon you want
it just happens to look like 150 coins at the moment so you dont realize
steel rampart
any tips for spear / shield / fists? i can do like 10-15 heat for the other weapons but im struggling to even clear with these,, they all feel kinda clunky + the close range is really difficult for me?
sterile fiber
Shield: block often. Dash attack into a bull rush, then at the end of the rush dash attack out into another rush. Doom on attack helps
fist builds. this was written for Demeter Fists but base fits can make them work too
if you're playing Zeus shield, put Zeus special on it, send it into some enemies, then just block/dodge and stall them out
worn solar
he is replacing a boon you want
yeah but buying him there means youre stopping him sooner from doing it later again
candid belfry
is that even how the hermes spawn algorithm works?
the fact that you cant reroll him makes it seem like he would be in a different spawn set than the boons
worn solar
well he just seems to replace gold laurel rewards at least ig. and he can replace them in other shops
but like you cant reroll him? ive rerolled into hermes before
worn solar
hmm guess ill test that
candid belfry
its written on here
would be better to test what stuff you can reroll into hermes
worn solar
you cant reroll him into another gods boon
idk looks like a reg boon. though turned into a heart first
but to begin with rerolling a god boon directly into a god boon before the other stuff doesnt exactly happen often either
this was directly from the hermes
like I put on a mod that disables reroll costs for this experiment but I doubt it also changed the reroll pools
foggy cosmos
just unlocked poseidon sword, any good cast builds?
last dirge
Maybe try for Lightning Phalanx?
You need athena cast and a core Zeus boon
Hunting blades is also an option
Ares cast Artemis core boon
flat garden
whats a cast build that is better with stygian soul than infernal
shell sleet
whats a cast build that is better with stygian soul than infernal
trippy flare beowulf, trippy flare hera bow
flat garden
beo and hera, really? i'd have guessed it was the opposite with them
but yeah that makes sense
valid dagger
Cast weapons using a cast build lol
last dirge
A lot are if you get bonus casts
I'd say stygian with +1 casts is just better than infernal
You cant force that really though
cunning urchin
Nah, it's only really better on specific Casts.
turbid needle
I always have infernal on by default
but the difference isnt that crazy for casual runs
cunning urchin
Yeah. Just something like Crush Shot is way better with Infernal Soul.
valid dagger
Good job
turbid needle
What made it for me was listening to jojo music with only 10 seconds left
dull relic
If I have Divine Strike, should I take Divine Dash too? Id really like to take Blinding Flash instead
valid dagger
Depends on what you’re doing
Divine Dash is good defensively on every aspect, blinding flash might not help you as much
unreal tree
valid dagger
unreal tree
carmine spire
valid dagger
I’m assuming you’re referring to Chiron
unreal tree
drunken flourish with priv stat
valid dagger
You can start with Dio Arti or Poseidon Special
Then go for Low Tolerance, Heartrend, Sea Storm respectively
unreal tree
aphrodite/demeter attack, maybe even doom to try to get low tolerance and curse of nausea
turbid needle
Drunken Strike at 30 absolutely shreds everything
on the other hand, seems I won't reach much higher than that
Had to pull the shortest straw ever 🥲
turbid needle
Which boons would be perfect to do a afk run? (Hades do all the damage himself)
valid dagger
Which boons would be perfect to do a afk run? (Hades do all the damage himself)
Curse of Vengeance, Frozen Touch +Killing freeze is probably good, maybe Impending doom, Wave of Despair dmg reduction gud
Oh and
Heaven’s Vengeance
Holy shield
Take Plume
Pray for dodge
Heaven’s Vengeance + Curse of Vengeance are probably best in terms of dmg
If you get some of the T2s
You can watch Haelian’s vid about it
He did it with EM4
shell sleet
also vengeful mood duo boon
proper furnace
random, how fun is exploding launcher with epic swift flourish?
lucid oar
Very fun
unreal tree
random, how fun is exploding launcher with epic swift flourish?
More fun with charged skewer
proper furnace
well i just missed it
1st hermes was hyper sprint then i rolled and just before i noticed swift flourish
unreal tree
foggy cosmos
i had a brilliant idea and I'm glad it's working so far
aspect of chiron bow, frost flourish and artic blast
sterile fiber
Oh that one's great
foggy cosmos
i wanted Aphrodite for the attack but i got artemis instead, which is a great option too
since hangover stacks, is there an artic blast equivalent for hangover?
noble onyx
dont think so
noble onyx
when will I EVER LEARN how to time my call well in the hades fight
EVERY time he always seems to immediately go impervious. especially if it was greater call
noble onyx
boon pointers for eris gun?
last dirge
Get used to using it in more melee range
Since you want to use your special for damage still but it needs to hit you too
Stuff like Spread Fire gets fun with that though it's a bit clunkier on Eris than Zag
Rocket Bomb makes it easier to get the buff and damage. Same with like Cluster Bomb
If you arent going for spread fire I would just use Zeus' keepsake
Zeus attack
It's the best scaling for group damage and Eris also buffs the lightning damage
last dirge
That's the issue with spread isnt it
You go for Zeus then get a hammer and its Spread Fire
Now you're mismatched
You can purge your attack, but that can be risky. Hoping for a replacement is risky.
noble onyx
so far so good. got zeus attack, used my tartarus hammer on flurry fire for the extra ammo (it didn't have rocket or cluster), got a few more synergistic boons such as static discharge and an attack-boosting chaos boon
last dirge
That's good
Eris works pretty well when you figure out how to line up the special
And like reload timing
Delta chamber is good on Eris though
It's fine to use
noble onyx
i'm not very good at lining up the special. i wish aiming gun special, dio cast, etc was with right stick so that i don't screw it up by forgetting to stop moving
last dirge
Hmm I'm unsure. I think it's just awkward with auto aim
It's a lot easier with really any hammer on your special
If you miss it's fine to apply it again
noble onyx
does special boon matter?
last dirge
It's not too slow and you arent rushing
It can. Usually duo stuff
Like Smouldering Air
So Aphro special
Special also has high damage, so it's a good pairing
Then global damage on your call
noble onyx
thanks! my first gun escape
worn solar
You go for Zeus then get a hammer and its Spread Fire
tbh not as bad on eris because of the global dmg
pliant dirge
Took a break, and can someone maybe send me the mod/send a link on how to get it for speedrunning?
unreal tree
#self-promotion pins
cunning urchin
EVERY time he always seems to immediately go impervious. especially if it was gr...
Use it right after he phased, and if it's still during phase 1, right after he comes out of invisibility.
That should help a lot.
proven arrow
tips on how to get the demeter legendary execute?
i usually get 2/3 of the needed boons + attack and i see no more demter ;-;
sterile fiber
her legendary is just hard to get
last dirge
Yeah
tropic ridge
whats the best weapon with its best aspect
cunning urchin
whats the best weapon with its best aspect
Shield, Beowulf.
tropic ridge
ok
because im just restarting because i wasted titan blood on the rail and this was when hades came on game pass
cunning urchin
Yeah, that one is way weaker than the other rails.
Still pretty good, though.
I wouldn't worry too much about wasting Titan Blood, though. Once you're at the point where you can get wins, you're getting back any Titan Blood you "wasted" much faster by just doing more runs than if you restarted.
And if you need help with builds for any aspect that you feel isn't living up to your expectations, you can always ask here and people will be able to help you out.
tropic ridge
yeah guess you are right
cunning urchin
There should be a few minor prophecies that give a lot of Titan Blood. So check the list. That'll help a lot.
And also once you find a powerful build on an aspect that you like, you can climb in Heat very quickly and get a lot of Titan Blood that way.
tropic ridge
oh yeah one more thing in my other save i used my nectar for each keepsake but should i just get the coller and lucky tooth and use the rest in the lounge
@cunning urchin
bronze marten
oh yeah one more thing in my other save i used my nectar for each keepsake but s...
no, you should make it rain, give everyone nectar. it progresses the story, you dont have another use for it, and at least the god keepsakes are very valuable to have
tropic ridge
ok
last dirge
Titan Blood isnt a limited resource
The more you play and clear the whole run, the more you get
Once you finish a clear on all, you can clear again and get the bounty again if you add a challenge modifier
You unlock the challenge modifiers once you clear the first time
You can get 20 + 1 titan blood for each weapon, plus other sources
noble onyx
Also eventually the broker starts offering deals where zag can buy it, so it even becomes renewable
last dirge
Yeah
worn solar
styx shop already does that tho
noble onyx
My mistake I meant to say it's renewable in 2 ways. I'm not sure if Ihavesmallbrain has reached styx yet
cunning urchin
You can get 20 + 1 titan blood for each weapon, plus other sources
42 Titan Blood per weapon.
1 for Erinyes, 1 for dad.
10 for getting a clear with every weapon. And 10 or 15 for getting a clear with each pact.
That's a lot of Titan Blood.
worldly stream
What is the build for Achilles spear
worn solar
What is the build for Achilles spear
should be relevant enough https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eAOEli9KqJOVyPD7U-6D1o1yZx1tDMQWLDcMJr8G84E/
noble onyx
good poiseidon sword build ideas?
flat garden
be sure to get exit wounds
flood shot is alright too
if youre going for single target damage you can have arty on cast
valid dagger
Exit wounds is overrated
flat garden
i dont care its good either way
noble onyx
does exit wounds stack for multiple casts dislodged simultaneously with poseidon special?
flat garden
but its not strictly necessary
valid dagger
Well you said be sure to get it lol
Implying it is necessary
It does nothing in normal rooms if you’re playing properly
And it’s okay for bosses
That’s about it
And yes it does stack
3 casts getting dislodged would do dmg 3 times
shell sleet
but poseidon bad boss damage
valid dagger
I would say it depends, some casts like Zeus’ are bad boss dmg yea
But Phalanx and Crush shot are both okay, no crazy phasing but they can keep up and do good enough dmg
subtle star
I was today year's old when I discovered I had undervalued Aphro`s call against the heroes...
cunning urchin
lol that's what I keep telling people to do when they underestimate her Call.
It's so good.
unreal tree
proper furnace
Who needs a nuke when you can make the other guy do it themselves
subtle star
He started pummeling himself with Ares call and I was like…
cunning urchin
Do it when they're both still alive.
craggy falcon
mortal patio
Is there a general collection of solid builds compiled anywhere for the various weapons?
mortal patio
Thank you for the link
last dirge
Ah yeah I was discounting
Either way titan blood is not too hard to get and you can interim trade Ambrosia for Titan Blood since you dont need a lot of Ambrosia until you get legendary keepsakes
plain moat
using eris and hazard bomb is a testament to challenging muscle memory i gotta say
a question somewhat related: does festive fog actually deal damage to you? i've never seen the game give me damage numbers?
unreal tree
a question somewhat related: does festive fog actually deal damage to you? i've ...
definitely doesnt deal damage to you
plain moat
so the boon that gives you damage resistance to it is functionally useless
worn solar
so the boon that gives you damage resistance to it is functionally useless
no it gives you damage resistance while in it not from it
plain moat
OHHHH
plain moat
no it gives you damage resistance while in it not from it
thanks! my reading comprehension failed me there
oblique sierra
Is there a best aspect for speed running each weapon
proper furnace
the meta iirc is: nemesis/achilles/beo/hera/demeter/eris
oblique sierra
Ty
last dirge
More or less yeah
Other aspects have stuff that make them slightly less usable for that. Fists most notably
Demeter is the normal one
Zag has no offensive benefits
Plus it does funny burst
Way more than Maim would do sadly
gilded pewter
what's a good build for beo shield?
valid dagger
what's a good build for beo shield?
opaque hare
does parting shot benefits from shadow slash?
and can electric shot backstab with it?
lone jetty
It does not affect Shadow Slash because that is specifically for attack, and Parting Shot is specifically for casts. But because casts can now backstab, the Shadow Presence mirror talent if active will apply to backstabbing casts
And yeah Zeus cast can backstab with Parting Shot
opaque hare
fun fact: i always take backstab dmg when fighting hades with the bracer
unkempt igloo
errant narwhal
you can post them using a link to an image hosting site, or from another discord server
arctic charm
Does the aspect of Nemesis critical chance apply to a dash strike too?
valid dagger
Yes
last dirge
Yes it's like deadly strike
terse thistle
Crits for days with nemesis 
oblique sierra
Let me introduce you to zag bow
worn solar
@craggy falcon uh ill move this convo here so we dont get 
. i presume you mean meg's summon and yeah she's the most used
craggy falcon
okay dokay
valid dagger
sounds sus
molten shoal
<@&456908176877551658> lol
valid dagger
yeet him
pastel jolt
yeeted!
valid dagger
ty
gilded pewter
what's a good build for the Nemesis aspect of the sword
unreal tree
what's a good build for the Nemesis aspect of the sword
Merciful end or artemis attack+aphrodite special-heart rend+smoldering air
I hate mike
gilded pewter
what is smoldering air?
also, is there any specific recommended Athena or Ares boons for merciful end?
valid dagger
what is smoldering air?
Zeus Aphrodite Duo, makes your call regen quickly but caps it at 25%
valid dagger
also, is there any specific recommended Athena or Ares boons for merciful end?
On Nemesis you basically want Doom on the attack (preferably with rarity), and Athena on the Special
Then Merciful End -> Divine Dash & Impending Doom
unreal tree
^
Double edge>breaching slash>piercing wave for hammers
Everything else is niche or just hurts you
worn solar
sword hammers stonks
unreal tree
the only reason my arthur wr hasnt happened yet
unreal tree
Lmao
valid dagger
https://youtu.be/SbnnxE9p6QY @lucid oar
lucid oar
Ok that seems a bit too good
cunning urchin
Bruh.
worn solar
actually on a boss wouldnt it ramp higher
because it shoots fast enough for conc to not reset right
valid dagger
lemme try something
lol this is gonna be a good one
damn it is actually chaining
okay took a while to upload something
valid dagger
because it shoots fast enough for conc to not reset right
https://youtu.be/sArKnHMbCYc cp2 vermin
