Lighting phalanx in heroes 
#h1-builds-and-combat
unreal tree
I dont like phalanx at all in lernie tho
It goes flying at a 1000 m/ph and I can't up
worn solar
tbh you can forget about the special and just do hunting blades, meme bemes, or ice wine
valid dagger
I don't like Poseidon Sword for Lernie 
worn solar
or just forget about the casts and do me or smouldering
strange lark
the best cast for poseidon is ME
sterile fiber
or ignore the special and do crystal meme: #h1-discussion message
turbid needle
just ignore the game
unreal tree
Based
sterile fiber
auto-win cheat codes when
unreal tree
cunning urchin
auto-win cheat codes when
Hades speedrun to credits: just to go YouTube.
Instant credits.
oblique sierra
☝️
lucid oar
I wouldn’t say so
cunning urchin
Yeah, Zag Fists are great.
worn solar
talos is
cunning urchin
It's okay, you just gotta lean into it to make it work well.
worn solar
15% dodge > funny slow magnet thing tied to upper you have to cancel to not get smacked
cunning urchin
Struggles when you start taking too many pacts that hurt your ability to make a build.
worn solar
would be nice if the upper was able to be cancelled in more cases
cunning urchin
The magnet pull isn't slow, it's almost instant if you dash-cancel.
worn solar
yeah but its annoying how cast canceling doesnt work mutliple times in a row
worn solar
true
also i forget but dashing into the pull then dashing to try to stop the upper just sticks the upper at the end of that second dash right
worn solar
idk. last time i tested it. the only way to fully cancel the dash special was casting instead of just dashing like you can with the standing one. though tbh that was a while ago. just reading of a question i made on the speedrunning discord
unreal tree
talos 
thorny coral
talos good
since it allows you try out things that you would have never used on anything else
like blizzard shot
blackout
curse of drowning
proper furnace
I use blackout a lot for hangover builds 
thorny coral
but it works better on talos
cunning urchin
It doesn't really work better on Talos, it's just a decent build on it.
worn solar
50% cast damage just isnt much especially when you have to apply it to enemies and you can't put it on big groups quickly
cunning urchin
Nemesis with Black Out probably better than Talos with Black Out.
50% bonus Cast damage is nice, but since you need to apply it first, you mainly just get it on bosses anyway.
Well, I guess some other enemies, too, here and there.
But like out of 3-4 enemies you hit with your Trippy Shots, maybe 1-2 will be debuffed?
last dirge
Talos works for CE at least
It's still awkward but it works
You magnetize enemies between you and the cast
proper furnace
Cold embrace maybe?
polar python
Talos might not be super strong but I think it's a good choice for new players who find Zag fists difficult to get used to and don't have the Titan blood to unlock Demeter fully. I got about 6 of my first 10 clears with it. Just remember to rethink once you start going up in heat.
valid dagger
There isn’t really a best
All aspects are viable both in terms of heat and speed
As long as you’re not going to the extremes
cunning urchin
All aspects are viable != all aspects are equal.
valid dagger
That’s true
Altho I feel like experimenting and trying things is better than having a strict idea that some aspect is the best when you’re just starting out
fast belfry
Hello
worn solar
a lot of it is tied to skill level anyways
proper furnace
@fast belfry so basically on basic bow (gonna asume not leveled up)
aphro attack, zeus call if given the chance to aim for smoldering air, divine dash if needed, look out for twin/triple shot hammers and flurry/perfect/point blank shot
from chaos you can grab attack or dash strike damage
proper furnace
for your question on how to use bow in the other channel
fast belfry
Oh
wintry flume
I have 6 diamonds, is there anything specific that I should buy?
What's the cooldown on that holy
proper furnace
the others are uh vanquisher keep. fated keys, nectar = random pom right?
polar python
Special items will be needed eventually. Darker thirst is good.
I wouldn't bother much with gemstones brilliant though if you have other things to unlock.
fast belfry
I have 3
polar python
The music stand might actually be optional now I think about it.
fast belfry
:(
wintry flume
Sorry about that
got muted lol
This might get me muted, not sure
Those are the other ones
Darkness Pitch Black seems really good.
so does the Nectar one
polar python
Most of those are good
wintry flume
Do gemstones unlock anything other than cosmetic stuff?
Or are they basically just a good trading material
polar python
If you are rolling for boons, keys become super valuable
Gems unlock house contractor stuff which can help runs.
proper furnace
idk if you are missing other work orders but you can use gems to trade for other resources at least
polar python
But it's mostly cosmetic.
wintry flume
Just those two for now
everything outside of work orders is useless right?
Well, not useless.
Useless to gameplay, good for customization
proper furnace
you need non work order things for dusa bond iirc but yeah
polar python
Those 2 are great but right now I'd look at more gems, more darkness or the fated key thing if you have fated authority or fated persuasion unlocked
wintry flume
Haven't put any points into it yet https://i.cubityfir.st/qTArXcFy85
proper furnace
olympian favor
polar python
Then get more darkness for now I think
proper furnace
swap it to fated persuasion and fated keys will give you those type of re rolls
flat garden
dark regen 👀
wintry flume
Then get more darkness for now I think
When you say more darkness, which one do you mean by that?
OH
``I'm dumb
Yea
polar python
Maybe rebalance the mirror to open up fated stuff.
proper furnace
also i suggest swapping OF to dark foresight
will see less darkness chambers but bosses drop a lot anyway if you are doing already cleared heat
polar python
Oh okay
proper furnace
same applies, just to the bosses you have beated and not all ig
worn solar
use cthonic vitality, death defiances, dark foresight, and fated persuasion
wintry flume
Why is cthnoic vitality better?
It seems like 60% of darkness is a way higher total number
lucid oar
It’s overkill
worn solar
it often leads to overhealing and you only get a decent amount from bosses
proper furnace
also dark regenation is useless in styx
wintry flume
mhm
worn solar
also you want to be using dark foresight which reduces the number of darkness rooms
polar python
3 per room in styx is surprisingly good
proper furnace
yup
wintry flume
worn solar
so more like a 40% increase to how many boons and stuff you see
wintry flume
I'll try this out and see where it takes me
flat garden
that 0 dd scares me
wintry flume
haven't used DD up till now
flat garden
im so reliant on sd nowadays
proper furnace
for now forget about fated persuasion ig and put 2 levels on DD
i dont think 1 dice will make the difference over being able to die more times
polar python
DDs aren't something you lose forever if you use them in a run.
wintry flume
I know :)
I mean, are the additional levels of gods pride worth it over the 1 level of fated?
polar python
I'm just amazed you aren't prioritizing them
proper furnace
i mean they been using SD so makes sense
flat garden
see thats the part that scares me
proper furnace
oh wait 
wintry flume
It leads to some bs happening sometimes, but what can you do 
proper furnace
DD let me unga bunga on bosses so im def never taking them away lol
wintry flume
I'd have killed hades 1000% by now if I had DDs to fall back on
proper furnace
or SD for high heat
polar python
I applaud your integrity
worn solar
you havent gotten a clear yet?
flat garden
lol that might be one factor
wintry flume
got hades to 1/3rd and died
wintry flume
dump the extra points into gods?
flat garden
i'd say at least 1 dd and whichever one you want for the rest
i forgot how much these cost i havent seen it in forever
proper furnace
500 and 1000 for 2nd and 3rd
wintry flume
How much does FP go up to?
worn solar
4
polar python
1st DD is basically free anyway.
worn solar
costs a crap ton though
flat garden
fp goes to 4, fa goes to 8
but fp costs a hell of a lot more at max than fa does
because it's very powerful
oblique sierra
Are you not taking DD on purpose?
wintry flume
Yea
polar python
I think so
wintry flume
worn solar
looks like it
wintry flume
That'll be my spec for now then
proper furnace
Fated authority costs 11k darkness compared to FP 10k
oblique sierra
Bold move
proper furnace
but persuasion needs more x level anyways
worn solar
well with your mirror nearly maxed you can make it up with powerful builds anyways
wintry flume
I've only had DD once, and it was because I got a boon that gave me 1 charge of it
proper furnace
also with FP i tought you all were talking about fiery presence lmao
oblique sierra
It was the gods blessing
flat garden
lc4 players relying on sd for healing: 😅
proper furnace
at this rate i see you winning on fresh file lmao
wintry flume
Just don't get hit 4head
proper furnace
DDs are a suggestion
flat garden
i should do a ddless run sometime
have the butterfly on with high confidence
train myself to get good for once lol
wintry flume
It's funny because I talk about hades in another discord that I'm in, and most people think I'm insane for not using DD at all
proper furnace
you can be good while using sd/dd tho
wintry flume
shrug
It's a challenge right?
I'll probably start using them after I've beaten the game
proper furnace
was refering to electroniK but yeah more of a challenge
proper furnace
I'll probably start using them after I've beaten the game
beaten a run or credits
flat garden
you can be good while using sd/dd tho
nah just training to get zero deaths in a run
which i have yet to do
i always get overconfident in elysium
wintry flume
I lost my last run to that
flat garden
maybe i'll do it on my next MEus shield run
proper furnace
whats the problem in losing dd/sd anyways
wintry flume
Had a great bow build that could one shot backstab basically anything w/ autoattack
But then got lazy, dashed into a spear and died.
flat garden
not so much of a problem if youre using dd really
i just havent gotten the hang of mirrorless
wintry flume
DDs are a suggestion <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
:)
flat garden
im just saying that would be a good way to train it
proper furnace
my main grip with mirrorless is probably lack of second dash and dd/sd
wintry flume
Try playing without DD, it really highlights mistakes 
proper furnace
i still can see a mistake when i see the "death defiead/last chance" message pop up
wintry flume
Yeah for sure, it's just a notification of "Hey, you got lazy / screwed up here"
It's good to sometimes look back at your mistakes and see where you can improve / how you screwed up
proper furnace
sometimes is also "why is this room even a thing" on high heat
worn solar
might as well switch to high confidence then
wintry flume
sometimes is also "why is this room even a thing" on high heat
It's also a little how I feel like on the Tartarus Miniboss Room with the Mage that spits projectiles on any weapon that has a charge time
It's just annoying.
flat garden
the sneak?
proper furnace
i hate the sneak on DoT builds lmao
flat garden
im not so good with non-hidden bow and the sneak really messes me up on it lol
wintry flume
the sneak?
Yeah, just checked my codex.
wintry flume
Why does deflect work against the bonus hydra heads, but not the main one
last dirge
It does work on their projectiles
wintry flume
It doesn't work on the small homing ones for sure
It sends them off in a random direction
What's the difference between encounter and chamber?
Encounter being where you get a reward at the end
Chamber being any one room
So Styx would be a bunch of chambers, but the whole tunnel is 1 encounter?
worn solar
What's the difference between encounter and chamber?
doesnt it tell you in the tooltip when you hover over the boon
wintry flume
very possibly
proper furnace
So Styx would be a bunch of chambers, but the whole tunnel is 1 encounter?
styx is each smol room in the tunnel = encounter
exceptions being hydro might where only the big room at each tunnel counts and same applies for thanathos/hermes keepsakes
wintry flume
i see
flat garden
wish styx small rooms counted for butterfly 😔
wintry flume
would be a little absurd
last dirge
Works for blossom tbf
worn solar
poms at styx matter less tbh anyways
proper furnace
not all boons benefit that much + dimishing returns anywas
last dirge
Sometimes it keeps hitting the right one sometimes its garbage
proper furnace
unless is hangover memes
worn solar
plume would be extremely powerful if styx counted tho
ionic crown
also eventually the poms scaling start dropping off
last dirge
I just dont think butterfly working that way would be absurd
ionic crown
really high level pom builds are kinda just memey
last dirge
It probably has a low take rate anyway
worn solar
yeah butterfly is kinda just not that great
worn solar
builds that do well with global damage also kinda want those god keepsakes more
last dirge
You need it for the entire run to get good numbers
But it also means you have little control over your build
So I dont think it actually evens out unless its seeded
At least plume opens up legendaries and rush delivery
Probably just better to increase the amount it gives than how it works
Yeah it should start at 2%
last dirge
I've seen pierced go up to like 45% dmg. Starting at 2% and scaling would soft cap it at around 68%
Yeah
That's not a huge increase but its definitely more competitive
wintry flume
This run is absurd, might actually get my first win https://i.cubityfir.st/RaTvn9fapb
I don't know if it's worth going into the additional tunnels
worn solar
unlikely
wintry flume
Especially since I might end up at lower HP
and without DD that's kind of important
worn solar
in general its important
flat garden
weirdest way ive seen of inflicting priv
i usually go for the safe picks like aphro dem lol
sterile fiber
you haven't seen two T2 statuses then
flat garden
what do you mean
worn solar
like rupture jolted
flat garden
oh i use those
sterile fiber
like using say, Jolted + Rupture
sterile fiber
my wildest was Exposed + Weak from Dying Lament
flat garden
does exposed doom proc priv status when the doom damages them
wintry flume
got him down to like 15-20% and kept getting hit by the skull shockwaves
it was just bad play on my part, needed to take it slower :/
proper furnace
does exposed doom proc priv status when the doom damages them
Yup
worn solar
got him down to like 15-20% and kept getting hit by the skull shockwaves
just to make sure. phase 2?
keen monolith
Oof
worn solar
yeah just stick on the dd's. after your first clear you can make the game harder by turning up the heat
heat also actually gives you rewards for making the game harder
keen monolith
I wouldn’t recommend even touching heat until you get a clear with each weapon
But your choice
ionic crown
yeah
worn solar
sure you'll be better by the end of your first clear if you get it without dd's but youre gunna be unlocking things slower and wont get to practice with heat options
wintry flume
Am I able to link a clip without getting banned / muted? lol
wintry flume
1 second then
keen monolith
You got a win before getting a single death defiance?
flat garden
not a win
wintry flume
not a win
flat garden
theyre not even using death defiance on the mirror lol
keen monolith
Still an accomplishment
flat garden
yep
wintry flume
my mirror right now https://i.cubityfir.st/PF2eiG2ymQ
keen monolith
I was referring to Demeter lol but yeah I’m just dumb
keen monolith
How did you max all those and not get a single death defiance
Or I should ask why
Death defiances are like the most useful one lol
wintry flume
How do you get the 4th aspect in each weapon?
I'm assuming it requires a clear first
keen monolith
It’s a bunch of hidden dialogue
You just have to keep playing until you get the dialogue
I don’t know if it’s a set order I can’t remember
flat garden
you have to get the spear first
keen monolith
Ye
wintry flume
I'm just playing w/ whatever weapon has the darkness buff
The gun is interesting, but reloading sometimes feels kinda janky
keen monolith
I remember you talk to ||Asterius|| for hidden fists aspect and ||Zeus|| for rail
Don’t really remember how you get the other ones
flat garden
i applaud you for having principles but if you do want to get a clear just a single dd will help you very much
wintry flume
I 100% would have killed hades by now if I had DD lol
keen monolith
You’re gonna have to buy it eventually
wintry flume
It's fun to see my friends get annoyed at it, makes the game a fair bit harder / punishes you more for your mistakes
if I had 3x DD there, I could have effectively damage tanked through the hades fight it feels like.
flat garden
it's ||nyx || for sword, ||chaos || for shield, and ||artemis || for bow
worn solar
tbh kinda just looks like youre button mashing
keen monolith
I can’t imagine doing any level of heat over 10 without a single death defiance
flat garden
I can’t imagine doing any level of heat over 10 without a single death defiance
50+ heat be like
keen monolith
50+ heat aka suffer and cry and die
wintry flume
I need to just be more patient and deliberate with my attacks
🤷
Especially in situations like that.
worn solar
tbh you couldve impressed your friends just as much by getting a clear with death defiances but half the attempts
or having cleared and being on your way to do so at higher difficulties
flat garden
50+ heat aka suffer and cry and die
im more really referring to the maximum- heat where you have to have RI on lol
keen monolith
RI?
flat garden
routine inspection
keen monolith
OH
sterile fiber
50+ heat be like
You need up to RI4 to not have DD (or rather SD at that point) lol
worn solar
ri4 is only 64 heat
keen monolith
Whoops I’m dumb
flat garden
ah i see
worn solar
or 63 non hellmode
sterile fiber
It's literally why nobody has done unseeded 63 an 64
flat garden
yeah that makes sense. doing 50-60 with no sd is hell
sterile fiber
you do literally anything to not touch RI4
worn solar
yeah you have no healing without sd
keen monolith
I don’t even know if that’s capable for a human being
Unless you’re just like
The best gamer ever
sterile fiber
62 unseeded has 2 takers
worn solar
well 64 has been done up to em4
sterile fiber
and theres a 64 routed
worn solar
and 64 routed has been completed by the same guy yeah
keen monolith
Ah I’ve only seen up to like 60 heat
worn solar
its pretty much only possible on shield
wintry flume
or having cleared and being on your way to do so at higher difficulties
I'll probably use DD as soon as I have a clear.
sterile fiber
repost from my story disc off topic post:
worn solar
you might also just want to look at some better build ideas
sterile fiber
rough translation of Damue's comments on ultra high heat on their 62 Zeus vod:
RI3 disables double dash and casts, ie you only have 1 dash and 1 cast. All non-shield weapons need double dash to position and deal with EM4, so they're maxed at 60 heat, unless you grind AP to get the boons you want + Hermes +dash for 62 heat. Beo also stops at 60 bc of single cast. Zag and Chaos shield need ME for damage output, which is hard under AP2, so they're stuck at 59. Only Zeus shield doesn't mind RI3, and can do 62. 63 and 64 need RI4 which disables SD, so you start at 50 HP with the only recovery being centaur hearts and darkness. Add TD3 and EM4 on top, and it seems impossible as of now.
keen monolith
Idk which of the starting zag aspects is best with no bonuses
worn solar
rail or shield prolly
sterile fiber
anything not sword can be decent
worn solar
well zag sword upgraded is basically zag sword not upgraded
cunning urchin
Rail or Bow.
keen monolith
Rip
cunning urchin
Base shield only if you find Charged Shot. Otherwise it's garbage. 
keen monolith
there’s one zag sword build I like but other than that zag sword is bad
worn solar
base shield is just chaos without the bullrushes smh
cunning urchin
base shield is just chaos without the bullrushes smh
So garbage without the bullrushes?
worn solar
but chaos is basically already base shield
keen monolith
Flurry slash plus cursed slash plus hermes attack speed and Demeter attack
worn solar
just get explosive return and forget about the bullrushes
keen monolith
You’re basically invincible
Cause you attack so fast you get your health back really quickly
worn solar
once you get hammers that empowered special is just a waste of time 
cunning urchin
I'd rather get Charged Shot and pretend I play bow.
worn solar
but tbh at 50 heat id pick base shield over the base other aspects
yeah for a special build you need a lot of boons
so either em4 or have fun with ap2
wintry flume
I'm assuming clearing on heat gives blood? Since then you can level up your aspects?
worn solar
yep
worn solar
which is kinda why its nicer to clear sooner rather than later
cunning urchin
Base weapons at 50 Heat. Ew. So basically just Smoldering Air + block. Yeah, I can get behind that strategy.
wintry flume
What's the general opinion of Bull Rush on shield for people?
It's a dumb question I suppose, but just wanted to get thoughts lmao
keen monolith
It’s good
cunning urchin
Don't bull-rush people with the shield. That's rude.
worn solar
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/771815559410876446/909262132074410014/unknown.png just get the boons smh
cunning urchin
Nice Smair build.
keen monolith
Bull rush is pretty useful unless it’s Zeus shield
worn solar
tbh the extra shields dont even matter unless theres a massive horde
cunning urchin
Bull Rush is still amazing on Zeus Aspect.
worn solar
be nice if they bounced
keen monolith
Fair it just doesn’t have any extra incentive
worn solar
no its really good
grouping up enemies, i frames, collecting shield safely
explosive return helps
keen monolith
Gotcha
cunning urchin
You just rush back and forth through enemies while calling and recalling your shield over and over.
Kinda.
worn solar
uh lemme see
sterile fiber
lets you safely run Ruthless Reflex for more dmg output
cunning urchin
Turns out being fully invincible while attacking is handy.
keen monolith
True
worn solar
sterile fiber
stop tempting me to translate that 62 Zeus guide dbsjjdjd
sterile fiber
did you mean: Smair
wintry flume
I haven't looked it up but I'm assuming people have done weird stuff like cast only runs
wintry flume
Lmao
I used to heavily undervalue cast. And still do if I can't get the % damage increase for marked targets
sterile fiber
there's a video of Greater Recall + Crush shot + Support fire where you do empty casts and have arrows do all the damage lmao
worn solar
hidden shield is a cast weapon and is absolutely broken
literally the code for it is broken
wintry flume
My excuse for poor play is that it's 2am BTW 
keen monolith
wintry flume
there's a video of Greater Recall + Crush shot + Support fire where you do empty...
Wait does the artemis ability work if you cast with 0 ammo?
Or do you spam it into a wall?
sterile fiber
spam it anywhere. Greater Recall will return casts to you
I think it had Flurry Cast too
worn solar
wait you have a link?
sterile fiber
wait you have a link? <:thanthink:669246004142538753>
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1if4y1W7kW
ye it had Greater Recall and Flurry Cast
wintry flume
That video is absurd lol
sterile fiber
when Damue isn't trying for heat WR they do memes like that
worn solar
lmao
sterile fiber
I think they have a pact with Artemis or something because I like, never get her legendary
that sick Lv11 Support Fire
wintry flume
It sometimes feels like I can go hours without seeing a god
worn solar
yeah kinda what keepsakes are for
wintry flume
I don't think I've seen dionysius in like 3 hours of gameplay lol
I was looking at mods because I was curious if there were many. Can you only have a certain number of gods spawn in your run?
And if yes, does using a keepsake force them to be in that run?
worn solar
once you grab 4 gods (not including hermes). youll only see them for the rest fo your run
wintry flume
Ah I see
worn solar
and yeah god keepsakes can still force gods
there are mods for the game but they are a bit limited in things they can change
mostly numbers and stuff
wintry flume
If you get 4 gods, exchange keepsakes, then have 5
Does it swap 1 out of the pool of 4?
worn solar
nope
wintry flume
Or expands the pool to 5
Or just the next boon is that
But will still be locked to the 4
worn solar
5
keen monolith
Demeter on Zeus shield is surprisingly effective
Ofc not as good as Zeus on special but still pretty crazy with some setup
I kinda wish I’d gotten the Demeter legendary though I was trying to set up for it and didn’t get it
visual jungle
I feel like these logs for each run in the admin chamber should be more detailed https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FExn1wrXoAEdAKk?format=jpg&name=large
idk how exactly... But it'd be nice if you could see stats for each boon
sterile fiber
Like percentages? Yeah
worn solar
ig would be nice if it was more like a copy of the victory screen
pliant dirge
7:58 leaving elysium
sub 8 is sub 8
cunning urchin
I don't think that one's gonna be sub 8.
shell sleet
I don't think that one's gonna be sub 8.
how could you tell
you must have a lot of experience
pliant dirge
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/811953350982893638/912291067230048306/unknown.png Bouldy <333
polar python
So I'm a little confused about Gilgamesh. I've heard a lot of people say it's bad, and It certainly didn't click for me, but on paper or looks like it should be good. So what's its specific weakness? Too slow? Bad moveset?
I seem to remember that the maim damage will never crit, which is a bit of a shame.
valid dagger
The dash distance is shorter than usual and the recovery on your dashes is also noticeably longer, so you need more time before you can dash again, maim is just terrible tho, making your enemies do more dmg for the price of 1/3 of Eris’ buff is just so sad
unreal tree
So I'm a little confused about Gilgamesh. I've heard a lot of people say it's ba...
Reduced dash distance, increased recovery time for dashes, terrible base damage, cant even kill a numbskull (25!!) Overall clunk, very unsafe, builds are too rng heavy(merciful end, hangover spam)
And also what mike said
polar python
Ah, I'd not noticed increased dash recovery time. That might explain why it felt so awkward for me.
unreal tree
Gilga is nearly unusable without ruthless reflex
I was very VERY lucky on my 50 clear
valid dagger
I mean if you watch someone really good with Gilga do a run or something it’s decent you could say, and feels smooth but the amount of effort you’ll need to achieve that is so not worth it in my eyes lol
unreal tree
i got a death defiance on AP2, ton of passion dash and drunken strike poms that helped a lot
polar python
Yeah sounds like something I won't spend time on
unreal tree
To most people, gilga is the worst aspect in the game
And I would more or less agree
valid dagger
Yea I would say the same aswell
polar python
I've done all weapons to 20H but won't be doing all aspects
unreal tree
Zag spear>talos>gilga are probably the worst
valid dagger
I might like Zag spear more than Sword but yea lol
valid dagger
polar python
I just like range too much. Bow and Rail for me with Achilles for cast builds.
unreal tree
https://youtu.be/fPQOZFgDlx4
This run haunts me
valid dagger
I feel like it haunts the whole Hades community
valid dagger
I just like range too much. Bow and Rail for me with Achilles for cast builds.
Charged Shot shield new meta
I would take this over Zag bow lmao
unreal tree
Inspiring a new meta
last dirge
Gulgamesh is fine it just really never got fixed
I'd make it even as low as 10% damage
Why does Beowulf have that as it's own downside
But gilgamesh has +50%
last dirge
Like +10% damage done +50% damage received
Maybe make it just on special in general
Because dash uppers right when you want them can be tricky to pull off depending on how much stuff you queued
Ends up wasting time on a clunky aspect
last dirge
Fair
They just queue up sometimes is the issue
So I'd still do dash uppers, but it just applying on special would make it way less sloppy
worn solar
unreal tree
you know what to do
cunning urchin
So I'd still do dash uppers, but it just applying on special would make it way l...
I've no issues with Gilgamesh execution, I think you just gotta clean up your inputs. Can blame the aspect for a lot of things, but not sloppy execution. That's on the player.
turbid needle
everything else is the issue
cunning urchin
You're saying Maim is not good actually? 
valid dagger
Maybe
valid dagger
Am I one of them
lucid oar
There are 5 good Gilgamesh players
unreal tree
last dirge
I think switch controls are just sloppy. To be fair I dont use the special a lot
I just like zooming with breaching cross
That's also the one time hide breaker is good
The dash strikes do so little damage
Together you get weirdly fast armor shredding. Then enemies die in a combo or whatever
arctic charm
Interesting interaction with Hades and Skelly. I defeated him at EM4 while Skelly had 3 of Hades's casts embedded. I left the dialogue box open and noticed the skulls popping out of Skelly, counting down, and exploding - at which point they dealt 160 damage a pop to Hades despite him kneeling under the shield
shell sleet
how do you play hera on KBM
wintry flume
If you beat the game with heat 1, and then go back to heat 0
Can you still get that titan blood?
short seal
No, if you’ve beaten 1 heat, you’ll have to move up to 2 heat for the next titan blood
Keep in mind that heat is separate for each weapon, so if you beat 1 heat with the bow, you can still do 1 heat with the sword and get the rewards
proper furnace
0 heat is kinda odd, you can do 1 heat without beating it
so if you havent done it for that weapon yeah, you can go back to it to claim 0 heat bounties
polar python
If you have moved to 1 heat before beating the final boss on 0 heat, you won't get anything extra
Until you have got all the bounties for a heat level, increasing the heat does nothing except make the game harder.
The pact will show you what bounties are available and you can easily see that increasing the heat for an incomplete level won't change the bounties available.
But all of this is per weapon, so if you switch weapon it'll just jump to whatever heat you did with that instead.
last dirge
Every weapon has a bounty per heat per weapon up to heat 20
So you get 2 titan blood 1 diamond 1 ambrosia per full clear * 6 * 20
You'll need like 10 heat minimum to maximize everything iirc
10-15 worth of blood. Probably much more actually, from prophecies
bronze marten
I think switch controls are just sloppy. To be fair I dont use the special a lot
Back buttons for special and cast have been life changing
visual jungle
Is it just me or does ||dad keepsake|| suck
worn solar
its widely used for speedrunning
valid dagger
It gives Global Dmg and movement speed, it’s used quite often for Speedrunning
visual jungle
Oh! I never knew why it was good for speedrunning
turbid needle
i personally dont like it but it has uses
valid dagger
I like it on Rama lol
Just enough to squeeze a powershot
I think I like it most on Eris, people use it for Beo and Nemesis aswell but I just don’t make good use of it there I guess
cunning urchin
+100% global damage from Hades' Aid is a lot.
If survivability isn't an issue, it's pretty much always a good pick in Elysium and the Temple of Styx.
Especially if you get Proud Bearing.
last dirge
I tried using it with Smouldering Air once
Does not work
Your gauge is just stuck at 25% when it is able to be
Which is just the passive of the keepsake
But you can never use it
valid dagger
So they made it so you need 50% now so smoldering useless
valid dagger
Yea I think it did in earlier versions not sure when exactly
proper furnace
yeah you need to get a call, get SA, purge call and grab sygil
valid dagger
Yup
last dirge
That's enough planning and effort to be worthy of some interaction. Oh well.
cunning urchin
Nah, that was broken.
worn solar
700+ dmg jolted procs
visual jungle
+100% global damage from Hades' Aid is a lot.
Isn't it so brief though
(I haven't actually used it in a while so I don't remember exactly 😅)
shell sleet
in the ingame text for sigil i believe it says that the damage buff only applies on the first attack you do or something, is it actually the whole 1.5 seconds for the damage buff or just the first attack then?
worn solar
"strike to appear and deal bonus damage for 1.5 seconds"
proven osprey
Whole duration
valid dagger
@worn solar Idk if it's too good but with rarity it would've been a nice pick along the way
viral isle
whats the best weapon to try and beat the gaem
ive been close to beating hades 3 times
worn solar
shield, bow, or rail i suppose are safest
viral isle
ive been using trident and sword lmao
worn solar
any weapon works if youre good with it
valid dagger
Yea you just have to get comfortable with it
Don’t go too agressive on bosses
Usually ends up with you taking a lot more dmg than you should
valid dagger
I usually take them
But you have to decide depending on your run, since Elysium is tough you might wanna avoid them there because the curse can end your run
viral isle
ok
worn solar
if right before a boss in tart or aspho can also be risky
valid dagger
Also might have to think twice before picking them later in biomes, you might not wanna carry a curse into a boss fight
Yea bosses are so hard with reduced dash distance or some other stupid curse
worn solar
imma try and get good with the sword
for sword the playstyle should be dash strike focused. dash strike > dash strike > special is how the combo usually goes. you want to avoid standing attacks
viral isle
ok
i got the ability where i get +2 health every hit but i have half my health or close to half
worn solar
well for cursed slash then stick to standing attacks
it doesnt work on dash strikes
cursed slash strats is just stacking damage resistance and attack speed
valid dagger
Now get flurry slash
Speaking of getting good with the sword, avoid that hammer next time lol
If you just want a clear you can go for it I guess, it’s quite cheesy
viral isle
gotcha
valid dagger
Double Edge is your best sword hammer for non Arthur, since your dash strikes are your main source of dmg, Double Edge just makes them even stronger, Piercing Wave and Breaching Slash are other good picks, not as good as dedge but you’re not guaranteed to see it every run so yea
last dirge
Double edge on Nemesis especially is amazing because it's much more than double damage
It's two crit rolls
So your dash strikes will one shot weak armored enemies
Namely the souls in Elysium
If you go to Chaos I recommend having an intent
Like think about what you want. You can get farming boons or damage boons usually
On sword, dash strike damage is probably better than attack damage
Special damage is okay but dont take it over something for attack usually
Backstab damage can be okay too but it's a consolation prize
Damage vs undamaged depends but it seems lower
proper furnace
Attack vs dash strike dmg just take whatever is higher
last dirge
Yeah
Chaos can be a really big damage increase
Especially with boons that dont have any/much percentage damage, usually
+80% dmg from Chaos makes Artemis attack do more damage than Aphrodite attack
Makes like Zeus attack not fall off as hard
viral isle
gotca
long escarp
It's two crit rolls
Two crit rolls isn’t actually more damage (unless one hit critting affects the other hit which would be weird) but I guess it does increase consistency
somber pivot
Does Rama's Shared Suffering count towards Privledged Status? I haven't been able to find an answer and it's hard to tell in the heat of battle.
cunning urchin
Nope. Only the status effects in this list count: https://hades.gamepedia.com/Status_effects#Status_Curses
somber pivot
Thank you
last dirge
Iirc all gods have one status
Sometimes it's a tier 2 but they all have them
You can get two in one hit with Sea Storm
cunning urchin
Yes, they all have one status curse that counts for Privileged Status.
Except for Lord Hermes and Master Chaos, of course.
light totem
To gain the bonus damage for Than's pierced butterfly in the satyr tunnels, do you have to clear the entire tunnel without getting hit to get the bonus damage?
flat garden
i think just in the final room
you can tell if the butterfly is on if it has the glow around it
long escarp
Yeah you can only get the benefit from the final room
solid sable
Best/Easiest build for first time EM3-4 ?
getting back into hades after 3 months lol
worn solar
I have concluded this build is very bad https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/895331680062165022/913281395957309500/unknown.png
cunning urchin
Best/Easiest build for first time EM3-4 ?
Beowulf with Passion Flare + Snow Burst and lots of poms on your Cast. Also Privileged Status.
solid sable
ight thanks
cunning urchin
You could also do Flood Shot with Deadly Strike and get Mirage Shot.
Mirage Shot is amazing on Beowulf either way since it does 100% damage on Flare boons instead of 30% like it says.
worn solar
funny trippy highroll
lean mist
Ok so I have lightning rod and crystal clarity, which should I prioritize
bronze marten
Ok so I have lightning rod and crystal clarity, which should I prioritize
Clarity probably
worn solar
clarity otherwise your meme beams suck
lean mist
Ok
worn solar
also theyre inefficient for making lightning rods since they linger the longest
bronze marten
Odds are cash will help more than rod
worn solar
well rod can still be decent dmg if you have jolted
bronze marten
But don’t roll for it
lean mist
Mk
worn solar
but if youre grabbing your casts quickly anyways it wont do much
bronze marten
Rod is more useful if your cast isn’t your main damage source
Throwing casts out randomly and letting rod exist is helpful
Don’t even need a cast boon
shell sleet
<:bouldy:523329116934635534> I have concluded this build is very bad https://cdn...
bad? how could it be? you have the most broken sword hammer cruel thrust
bronze marten
But meme beam wants to be up at all times
last dirge
Cruel thrust would be neat if it worked on Arthur
So is Vicious Skewer a bad hammer?
The way I see it, it can be good with like zag spear and achilles
I like it on Achilles because it procs mark for casts
bronze marten
So is Vicious Skewer a bad hammer?
It’s better on zag spear if your other hammer complements it (charged skewer, etc) but it’s not the kind of hammer that excites me at all
Achilles lack of charged skewer is why zag better for this one specific use case
shell sleet
Achilles lack of charged skewer is why zag better for this one specific use case
but at that point theres no reason why you wouldnt GY over zag if charged skewer
like sure -50% health but the damage is so much better
last dirge
Fair. I think it just synergizes nicely with Achilles and can genuinely benefit cast builds
Which usually can't benefit from hammers much
I've done some nuts damage with charged + exploding on zag
More than gy with charged it felt
And ridiculous range
Like 2k damage
Not even fully charged
bronze marten
like sure -50% health but the damage is so much better
The 50 health is the only reason lol
last dirge
Getting both is harder for sure though
bronze marten
Fair. I think it just synergizes nicely with Achilles and can genuinely benefit ...
I mean it can’t hurt and if it has worked, awesome
I just think it needs a second hammer to really shine
Since it’s not like special is the main damage dealer for Achilles
But I suppose it can be
last dirge
Yeah. I just like it to proc mark
bronze marten
Ah, I guess that can’t hurt
I guess if you’re going meme beam and get an epic Artemis special as your start boon
last dirge
Or even just want Mirage shot
bronze marten
It’s a niche, but if you do something cool with it ping me in the victory screen I’d be interested to see how it goes
last dirge
I think it also like, can cause some secondary effects to crit
I swear it caused bolts to crit
I didn't have pp or mark
bronze marten
Skewer?
last dirge
Yeah
bronze marten
Was it a Zeus special?
last dirge
Yeah
last dirge
I think it was for lightning phalanx
I'd need to check again. That's a fun build anyway
last dirge
I got lucky and got the hammer and special combo
Yeah the bolts crit
That's funny
Unless that's the special damage somehow. I cant tell
But it looks like its bolt crits right
@bronze marten I think I got evidence
The 120!
I really cant tell since both are yellow but its footage at least
Nope. Thats just what the special adds up to
Okay. Good to know
bronze marten
Yeah the spear strike crits bolt doesn’t I think
What if it was a chonk special like aphro or Artemis tho hmm
Skewer doesn’t benefit from Zeus special but a boost to special with high crit chance yeah that’ll do some damage
cunning urchin
DPS is gonna be low, but it's a very safe playstyle.
solid sable
Beowulf with Passion Flare + Snow Burst and lots of poms on your Cast. Also Priv...
i got an almost perfect build and like 8 poms on cast but died in 3rd boss phase, ,rip
probs need more practice
worldly stream
Anyone know any meme builds for zag fists?
long escarp
Max dodge
cunning urchin
Maybe something like Special-only with Flying Cutter.
shell sleet
if you have exclusive access + euridyce nectar will the next 3 boons all be heroic/legend/duo?
proper furnace
Epic is the highest you normally get
Heroic boons are only trough exchanges offered by the gods, eurydice ambrosia and rare crop from demeter
And duos/legendaries are still a chance as long you have the requisites
shell sleet
so eurydicce nectar just does nothing if you have exclusive access?
unreal tree
so eurydicce nectar just does nothing if you have exclusive access?
Nah it still gives duo chance
shell sleet
is pierced butterfly global damage
unreal tree
Yeah
unkempt scroll
Well, at least I won't have to start over every time I take a break 😅
I just returned, on the fifth run I got to the final boss with just one death defiance :3
valid dagger
Well, at least I won't have to start over every time I take a break 😅
I just r...
Who went back home first lol
unkempt scroll
I'm not sure I get it 🤔
fading panther
Who died first
valid dagger
Well you said you got to the final boss but didn’t specify who killed who
unkempt scroll
Ohhh, me
valid dagger
unkempt scroll
I had no dd left, and I didn't have that good of a dmg combo
Just had a few dmg boosts for sword special
Accidentally jumped into a bunch of ghost bombs, lol x)
fading panther
Welp, try again, Zagreus! 
valid dagger
Time to go back up
unkempt scroll
Yep. Sometime, at least x)
Trying to get something from an event in a game, though, so just spending a bit of time on that first.
I might try and go for a Poseidon run later, though. I don't have that many, uhh, whatever they're called, at the moment
Tried to get the feather one to 25% for the achievement, but I struggle quite a bit to beat enough rooms fast enough for that s_s
fading panther
Fully upgraded Zag Shield has good damage for a Zag weapon
Should be killing fast even on early Tartarus
Otherwise, Eris or Beo
unkempt scroll
I think I used to "main/prioritize" Zag fists, I managed to beat 32 with it 🤔
Might try to see if I can get the achievement with them, later on 🤔
unkempt scroll
It was quite a while back, though
I don't remember all the names and stuff, though 😅
Who's Eris?
fading panther
Fastest I can go with fist is with Merciful End Demeter
proper furnace
aspect of the rail
fading panther
Eris is one of Rail aspect
proper furnace
slap zeus attack on it and it gets so much better
or a good % attack boon if you are using hestia aspect
unkempt scroll
Well, at the moment I haven't unlocked all the weapons yet, so got a bit to go first
fading panther
Spread Fire will cancel Hestia’s 150 base damage, right?
unkempt scroll
I did like using the bow with the special that seeks enemies
Aspect of Chiron, or what was it called again? 🤔
fading panther
That’s it
proper furnace
Spread Fire will cancel Hestia’s 150 base damage, right?
it just doesnt do anything on the empowered shot
unkempt scroll
Yay, I can remember stuff x)
proper furnace
your normal bullets do the spread fire thing tho
fading panther
So, spread with 150? Sounds nice
proper furnace
i mean you arent doing normal shoots on hestia so kinda worthless
rocket bomb comfy too
valid dagger
Hazard gud
fading panther
Was just thinking of shotgun Hestia instead of single target sniper
unkempt scroll
I'm thinking I may try and aim for a 40 heat run this time, but I'm not entirely sure 🤔
fading panther
I don’t even know if it works tbh lol
valid dagger
Just do zag rail at that point
proper furnace
i remember seeing spread fire on hestia and thought "oh base dmg increase this sounds good"
turns out is not good
fading panther
oh well
valid dagger
I'm thinking I may try and aim for a 40 heat run this time, but I'm not entirely...
Do it
Right now
With EM4
proper furnace
i remember trying spread fire on eris, 6 bullets are not fun
unkempt scroll
Heh x)
Would be nice if I could manage to, but I'll have to work my way up to 32 first x)
valid dagger
Oh I thought you already did it with fists
unkempt scroll
First I gotta go through the storyline, though 🤷
valid dagger
Fair
unkempt scroll
I did a while back
I just returned, though
Well, yesterday. Nearly beat it on my 5th run
x)
Was kinda an accident even, I just wanted to go to bed, I forgot I had the game on pause in the background 😅
unkempt scroll
EM4? Isn't that just the thing for a harder boss?
shell sleet
yes
shell sleet
we found retrash
fading panther
I can tell you that it will be fun
unkempt scroll
I already know about it x)
Just gotta unlock it first... then get used to it... again
fading panther
Jokes aside, EM4 Hades is hard
unkempt scroll
I'm more afraid of the movement/attack speed boost...
terse thistle
EM3 is only bad if you get caught in asterius spin to win. That move hits hard. And EM4 hades will likely beat up any first timers trying
turbid needle
em4 sucks on high heat because pacts buff hades up too hard
terse thistle
Remember to destroy those jars in phase 3 ASAP as it heals him
shell sleet
EM4 is worth a lot of heat but with TD3 FO2 and HL5 its very hard
unkempt scroll
Remember to destroy those jars in phase 3 ASAP as it heals him
Lol, I never destroy them 😅
I just let them be, sometimes they get destroyed
terse thistle
Literally a dark souls boss by then which… you never wanna get hit
terse thistle
Lol, I never destroy them 😅
Pretty sure you can end things faster since he’s not healing from them
unkempt scroll
Pretty sure you can end things faster since he’s not healing from them
Hmm, maybe
I think I'll have an easier time getting used to EM4 than anything else, basically
FO is scary to me
And the extra dmg buff is just, ugh s_s
terse thistle
Least the music really hyped up
vale imp
If you play on FO enough, you get used to it and that’s just free heat baby
fading panther
FO1 is manageable imo
unkempt scroll
True. Too bad you got a boss hunting your ass down to really enjoy it
fading panther
FO2, I don’t think I can do it without some OP builds
vale imp
Nah, FO2 is very doable no matter your build
unkempt scroll
I think last time I played, if I kept on a bit more I might have gotten used to EM4 + FO2
vale imp
It just seems scary at first
unkempt scroll
You just gotta get used to the speed as fast as possible...
fading panther
Very scary, yes
vale imp
But, your eyes and brain just meed to get used to it
unkempt scroll
The longer you stick to "easy mode", the harder FO2 will be 😅
fading panther
I mean, I’ve done runs with FO2, but only with lucky boon combos
unkempt scroll
And to think when I first played the game I thought it was hard 😅
vale imp
The only issue is that in Asphodel, the jumpy bomb guys jump really fast and it can be annoying catching up to them
fading panther
Needs more experience tbh
fading panther
I remembered armored shield guys in Elysium doing so much damage on me
On FO2
Their spins caught me off so many times
Alongside their wave attack
unkempt scroll
I don't think I wanna do speed runs, too much focus on time, and I don't have the energy to spend on getting good at the game x)
fading panther
Just TD3 is fine tbh, you can really get by 5min Tartarus just by playing a lot
fading panther
The only hard thing about TD3 when you try it for the first time is 5min Tartarus
After that, it’s smooth sailing
vale imp
Oh, it’s totally fine to play how you want
unkempt scroll
Though, I also used to put on the 2 blocks on 🤨
turbid needle
TD3 comes really naturally when you get good at building and clearing
vale imp
Speed, no speed, high heat, no heat, any way is valid
turbid needle
its just can you beat the game under 20min?
unkempt scroll
I think the fastest I've managed is more than 20 mins
21-22 might have been my fastest, but not sure 🤔
turbid needle
thats close enough
shell sleet
After that, it’s smooth sailing
that is until 5sack
unkempt scroll
It'll kill me, though
turbid needle
proper furnace
going over the deadline doesnt kill you outright, just starts doing 5 dmg every second(?) or a bit more
but with how close you are, some practice runs should be fine
vale imp
Yep
fading panther
that is until 5sack <:bouldy:523329116934635534>
Well, can’t get lucky everytime I guess
unkempt scroll
I do know it isn't an instant death, but I'll still die :P
turbid needle
if you wanna clear 40 heat getting good at the game is a requirement
fading panther
You know, with 22min, that means 2min on overtime, and you can survive 2min on overtime if you don’t get hit too much
30sec overtime on each biome boss?
proper furnace
build made to see how much you survive in overtime when
unkempt scroll
Well, I don't think I can go through a run with getting hit much less than I usually do 🤔
shell sleet
build made to see how much you survive in overtime when <:dusa:52224877140954318...
just get athena legendary and play hitless
proper furnace
depending on what you are planning to do for 32 heat you can probably include demeter on your build for chill, to minimize forced overtime problems too
unkempt scroll
Isn't that basically worthless if you need high dmg?
unkempt scroll
depending on what you are planning to do for 32 heat you can probably include de...
Uhh, no, not really? I think I usually just get some crit dmg and hit stuff
proper furnace
the surviving in overtime? more of a joke than anything ww
unkempt scroll
Though, I don't really remember what I used to go for with the fists on the 32 run, though
I think I usually went for divine dash for a bit extra defense, though
proper furnace
if you still have the file that beated 32 heat you can probably check the admin room
unkempt scroll
Nope, I think I deleted it
I like the story the game has, so I didn't really mind starting over
proper furnace
understandable, at least 32 heat has a lot to get away of things like AP and RI, so pretty much anything works
unkempt scroll
And besides, it was basically just 100 runs, give or take a few 😅
I assume the most optimal option is just to unlock every weapon/beat the final boss, then do it on every weapon for the 0 heat titan bloods, after that just put on EM and FO to try and getting used to it? 🤔
proper furnace
might wanna be sure your mirror is good too
unkempt scroll
Well, I basically only need dash and dd to get to through the easy parts 🤷
Nearly got through Hades on 1 dd yesterday
proper furnace
no dark foresight/fated persuasion really will hurt if you take underworld customs
unkempt scroll
Uhh, huh, yeah, I don't really remember what they do, but okay
proper furnace
for before 32 heat, yeah no max mirror is fine
proper furnace
Uhh, huh, yeah, I don't really remember what they do, but okay
dark foresight changes ratio of golden/blue doors (gold being the run only things like boons/blue being the darkness, gems, etc) from 50:50 to 70:30
so you see a lot more hearts/poms/boons/gold/hammers
unkempt scroll
Nice
proper furnace
persuasion lets you reroll boon/charon wells/pool of purging/poms choices
unkempt scroll
Right, those are a bit expensive, if I recall correctly
proper furnace
10k for max persuasion and not sure for dark foresight
doubt is needed but helps a lot with UC forcing you to sell important boons
valid dagger
Yea Persuasion rolls are expensive, but getting keys gives you a reroll dice so thats good
unkempt scroll
Ugh, gotta farm titan blood again 🙄
Not really sure which aspect I wanna go for first, though
proper furnace
there is also a max save on the speedrun page of hades, if you wanna use after doing the story
unkempt scroll
Uhh, somebody else's save?
proper furnace
ye
unkempt scroll
Meh, I can use the farming to getting used to EM4
And FO1 for starters, I suppose
Might regret beginning with FO2 x)
proper furnace
if you are gonna do em4 then dont do fo2 lol
unkempt scroll
Why not getting used to both?
proper furnace
both are the same time are just dumb
unkempt scroll
Also gotta unlock it first, though. I don't really remember what makes it available in the shop 🤔
proper furnace
(sometimes cerb summon still on going and dad just appears to spin attack you)
proper furnace
Also gotta unlock it first, though. I don't really remember what makes it availa...
ik it requires beating the story first but not sure exactly what other thing
valid dagger
Yea EM4 is very difficult
Getting used to FO2 and LC4 is probably a good starter
Then start your EM4 practice while slowly adding HL and eventually HS
unkempt scroll
. . . Am I remembering EM4 different? 🤔
As far as I remember, EM4 seemed pretty easy compared to FO2 🤔
proper furnace
alone is fine