h1-builds-and-combat

[jovial fulcrum]

at worst, vintage is a centaur heart and a pom slice

so good

[woven ivy]

yea vintage is nice

[hearty fractal]

got vintage

¯_(ツ)_/¯

now I have an aphrodite bon

[woven ivy]

if im not going for dio build i go strong drink or vintage

noice

go get that heart rend

[hearty fractal]

cast, revenge damage or damage resist

[woven ivy]

do you have rerolls?

[hearty fractal]

[woven ivy]

hmmmmmmmmmm

[hearty fractal]

yep

should I?

[woven ivy]

what area are you in rn?

[hearty fractal]

tartarus

[woven ivy]

just save it then

[strange lark]

take damage resist

[woven ivy]

you have the aphro keepsake still right?

and yea damage resist

[hearty fractal]

yes

[woven ivy]

yea just save rerolls for later

[weak sequoia]

i just started the run realised i have like 13 14 heat added some stuff and i lost a dd from a trap 🥲

[hearty fractal]

aphro keepsake for asphodel?

[strange lark]

bruh

[silver summit]

ouch

nah rusty you can probably just take uh pursecoin or something

[weak sequoia]

i have such a good build too for first time rama

[silver summit]

i don't think you need rose anymore

well don't run into traps lul

[valid dagger]

Heightened security best heat

[hearty fractal]

purse it is

[strange lark]

do you already have aphro boons?

[hearty fractal]

yes

[strange lark]

then no

[hearty fractal]

dash and DR

so coin purse?

[weak sequoia]

the three arrow shooting hammer (im not good with names)
and epic aphro attack epic zeus special like yall told

[valid dagger]

That’s a good start

[silver summit]

wai what's dr again

[strange lark]

damage resistance

[silver summit]

diferent lrauge?

different league

[woven ivy]

ye

[silver summit]

DL

i can't spell

[woven ivy]

sure you can take coin purse

unless you really really want heart rend

but then again

chances of aphro boon spawning is quite high since you have her boons already

[strange lark]

yeah

thats why you shouldnt take a god keepsake if you already have that god

[jovial fulcrum]

despite floor 1 demeter, floor 2 artemis I'm at Champs and still no crystal clarity

[strange lark]

cool

[valid dagger]

Rip

[jovial fulcrum]

lmao

[hearty fractal]

I have a choice

[jovial fulcrum]

haven't even gotten chilly laser, lol

[hearty fractal]

artemis or aphrodite

[turbid needle]

is there a reason (outside of just lore) that I should keep giving those vial things to the same gods?

[lost sparrow]

aphrodite

[strange lark]

no

[silver summit]

there is a limit

so there is a reason, technically

if you're talking about nectar

honey, orange looking bottle

[hearty fractal]

sweet surrender, special or dying lament

[silver summit]

uhh sweet surrender may be good..? don't quote me on this tho

[strange lark]

wait are you still going for HR

if so then take special

[hearty fractal]

yes

[weak sequoia]

and now i lose 2 dds to magma and wave things in asphodel 😭

[strange lark]

nice

[vague ledge]

There is honestly nothing better for the bow than Rama+Zeus

[strange lark]

ok

[weak sequoia]

i give up on life ill go fists and try to unlock its hidden aspect

[woven ivy]

i mean

you dont have to even use fists to unlock the hidden aspect lmao

just spend 5 titan blood on it and talk to le bull

[hearty fractal]

sweet surrender or life affirm

[strange lark]

yes you do

for the first time

[strange lark]

life affirm

[woven ivy]

well yea for first dialogue from asterius you do i guess

also bruh sweet surrender would be good for heart rend build

thats the extra damage for charm right?

[strange lark]

oh

dont know the name

welp

[serene zealot]

Extra damage for weak affected foes

[woven ivy]

ah right

been getting aphro legendary so much i forgot charm isnt her base effect lmao

[hearty fractal]

what keepsake for elysium?

I'm thinking tooth maybe - I'm down two dd stacks

[woven ivy]

you mean you only have 2?

also do you have heart rend yet

[hearty fractal]

I have one left

and no

[woven ivy]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

do you have codex upgrade yet actually

[hearty fractal]

yes

[woven ivy]

try checking if you have requirements for heart rend cuz starting to doubt myself lmao

and yea go for lucky tooth

[hearty fractal]

I do

[woven ivy]

okok you should reroll next time you get aphro/arty boon

[serene zealot]

^

[woven ivy]

if you dont get heart rend

[serene zealot]

What's the run btw?

[woven ivy]

max zag stygius heart rend

[weak sequoia]

that explains why he no give me aspect i have to spend 1 more blood agh

[woven ivy]

youve faced him using fists before right

[serene zealot]

zag sword with heart rend, huh

May have to try that

[woven ivy]

you just need 1 dialogue from him then you can use any weapon to get the waking phrase

[serene zealot]

^^^^^^^^

[woven ivy]

yea its a nice build

i go for either that or ME most of the time and both are nice

that is if im not going lambent plume zag sword to get maximum speed and dodge

[turbid needle]

best build for fists? just unlocked them and they're super cool IMO

xD

[weak sequoia]

yea

[strange lark]

merciful end dash build

ares attack

athena special

athena dash

[hearty fractal]

do I go world splitter

that is the question

[woven ivy]

no

thats the big chop one right

[hearty fractal]

its that, cruel thrust or shadow slash

[hearty fractal]

yep

[woven ivy]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

do you use the thrust a lot?

[hearty fractal]

what's the thrust?

[woven ivy]

its the 3 combo attack for sword

[hearty fractal]

ah

yes

[woven ivy]

then go cruel thrust imo

[hearty fractal]

still no heart rend

almost at the end of elysium

[woven ivy]

bruh

go to charon shops

if you have at least 150 obols

[hearty fractal]

finally

aphrodite boon

lets see

nope

I have one reroll

[woven ivy]

can you reroll

[hearty fractal]

lets see

[strange lark]

how

[woven ivy]

do it

[hearty fractal]

YES

[woven ivy]

poggers

[hearty fractal]

about god damn time

right before asterius and theseus fight

[woven ivy]

noice

[hearty fractal]

alright

walked out with two dd stacks

[silver summit]

neat

[hearty fractal]

should I keep lucky tooth or use acron?

[strange lark]

doesnt matter

[glad void]

I prefer acorn, but ig if u have a ton of health tooth is better, not a big difference either way

[strange lark]

nah

health doesnt change the tooth

it is 100 health at max rank

[outer badger]

hiii, I was wondering if you folks have any tips for chaos shield builds?

[spiral badge]

Tooth is probably worth more eHP at low heat

Balance of probability

[outer badger]

Im still slow but around 23 minutes with every weapon but with shield Im at 40 lol

[strange lark]

max it out, ares special and aphro attack

get duo boon

[spiral badge]

Acorn outstrips tooth pretty quickly though in a comparison of damage you don’t take vs damage you get healed back

[outer badger]

I usually have around 3 duo boons with every weapon

[spiral badge]

Which are two sides of the same coin

[outer badger]

agree about the acorn tho!

especially with hades

[simple solar]

Tooth is great early game. Acorn is better id say

[spiral badge]

With that said, acorn charges are depleted by single hits which means that a stray numbskull hit consumes the same charge as a full dad spear spin, whereas tooth is just raw health. Acorn has the greater but riskier benefit, tooth is simple as they come and always at least somewhat useful, but it will get outclassed by acorn once you learn to stop taking stupid hits to the chin for no reason

@outer badger Zeus on chaos shield special is also a powerful option. Ares is probably the best though. You want a high damage % attack to compliment it, one of the three As: Aphrodite, Artemis, Athena

[outer badger]

yeah I usually do that with the other weapons as well

[silver summit]

you use acorn against hades usually

and like

[outer badger]

which shield do you recommend most? I have all unlocked

[silver summit]

you're probably good against a numbskull if you're up against hades lol

[outer badger]

Im generally fine with vanilla hades but somehow numbskulls still hit me :p

[spiral badge]

You’re right, let me make that a little more specific

[silver summit]

tbh all shields are fun, i personally enjoyed zeus the most, with it's boomerang-like seeking you, but chaos is, well, chaotic as hell, spreads damage, and beo is like kinda hard to use but the aoe from dragon rush is really great

i'd say zeus mostly

i understand you aurash

but most hits are gonna go to hades usually

[spiral badge]

Acorn is largely for hades, and you need to be careful about the adds that get summoned in that fight for the aforementioned reasons

[silver summit]

yeah

[spiral badge]

@outer badger zag and Zeus shield are bae

[silver summit]

i never actually used zag shield other than first time

[outer badger]

cool Ill give one of those a go again! thanks 😄

[spiral badge]

Zag is 0iq unga bunga destruction

[silver summit]

zeus is fun

what's zag do. dash strike damage?

[spiral badge]

Zeus is 9000iq unga bunga destruction

+15 base damage to regular attack and dash attack for zag

Turn your brain off, play the game almost exclusively with the dash and attack buttons, and zag shield is a riot. Good clean simple fun

[outer badger]

Im a special person though

that was easy to not say :p

[strange lark]

no you are not

[outer badger]

Im making a joke...

[strange lark]

lmao

[spiral badge]

Zeus shield is top 3 for strongest overall weapons in the game

But it takes getting the hang of maneuvering your destructo disk well

[hearty fractal]

didnt win

[spiral badge]

Still, for a weapon that probably leads the “highest skill cap in the game” conversation, Zeus shield is remarkably easy to pick up and start playing at least somewhat effectively

[hearty fractal]

that was what I was expecting though

[outer badger]

Ill give it a go!

my fav is talos now

[spiral badge]

Ah, you’re in good company

Talos, Zeus and zag shield are my three favorite “fun” weapons

[outer badger]

I never thought I would enjoy it, because I played almost all first runs with the gun, because I found it easier not to get hit that way as a newbie

but talos is so fulfilling

[spiral badge]

You’re going to shake a lot of your early weapon impressions as you play more

All weapons have at least one truly powerful aspect, and the conversation about best weapon largely comes down to overall strength of all aspects when considered together

[hearty fractal]

I keep losing for some reason

[strange lark]

get gud

[hearty fractal]

I get a strong build, but by the time I get to styx it tickles enemies

[spiral badge]

Don’t Get Hit ®️

[turbid needle]

What's the best aspect build for fists?

[spiral badge]

Tough love, a strong build that tickles Styx enemies isn’t a strong build

[hearty fractal]

It shreds tartarus, onlympus and elysium

[jovial fulcrum]

Olympus is giving me bleh RNG, but at least master chaos has my back
https://i.imgur.com/TPEPaU3.png

[hearty fractal]

but the moment it gets to styx its like, nah I'm done

[spiral badge]

Styx shouldn’t be too much worse if you’re making it there with ease

You’re generally either going to be falling off in elysium or not really at all

[jovial fulcrum]

i didnt know you could get chaos legendary more than once in a run until now tbh

[strange lark]

bruh what

[spiral badge]

Are you perchance taking more damage than you should be, and that could be swaying your opinions?

Without seeing your actual build screen, of course

[jovial fulcrum]

IKR?

That'

s what i said

[spiral badge]

If you haven’t unlocked any aspects fully: put one upgrade into talos, get Zeus attack and Aphrodite cast, ezclap

[woven ivy]

did you get chaos legend twice what

[muted canopy]

I had an idea for an ares build

[jovial fulcrum]

i did.
I too am surprised

but i guess you can get chaos dupes

so it makes sense, even though it super unlikely

[muted canopy]

Flurry Shot -> Curse of Pain -> Dire Misfortune

[hollow wraith]

Damn i hate those laser enemies. When you're in a tiny room on last floor with 4 laser beam enemies it's impossible to dodge all of them and does so much damage

[jovial fulcrum]

I wonder if you can get more than 2 chaos defiance.
Probably really tough, I don't think I've ever gotten chaos more than once per biome

[woven ivy]

i mean if youre in a tiny room just dash behind the pillar

or just kill them fast

if you cant kill them fast you have a bad build

[hollow wraith]

I try that but often it just goes through pillar or it gets destroyed

[woven ivy]

wait how does it go through the pillar what

[strange lark]

pillars can get destroyed

just dash behind it

[woven ivy]

no i mean

the laser goes through the pillar?

[spiral badge]

Either our range or outflank the purple laser stones

[strange lark]

pillars can get destroyed

[woven ivy]

i thought only you can destroy it

[strange lark]

nah

[spiral badge]

The stones suck but they have A: very little health B: long but limited range and most importantly C: an absolutely aaaawful turning rate

All those put together means your strategy is to either outrange the stone and avoid it temporarily, or close in quickly and smash it while outflanking it

Never, ever approach one of those stones head on

[woven ivy]

if youre in a small room

[spiral badge]

Use their bad turning rate against them

[woven ivy]

cast on it

then use call or smth

dash behind the pillars if you cant break the armor fast enough

[spiral badge]

Stones are annoying but they’re very fragile and you can dodge them once you realize their beams have limits

[jovial fulcrum]

does mirage shot like... do anything with Curse of Drowning?

[strange lark]

probably

[woven ivy]

more splashes?

idk

[strange lark]

extra wet

[jovial fulcrum]

Maybe i'll find out

shooting for drowning talos build, was offered arty

[prime heart]

does anyone have a good Arthur build?

[cunning urchin]

Deadly Strike, Passion Dash, Heart Rend.

Can throw in Zeus' Aid for Smoldering Air if you see him or you already got Heart Rend.

Or you can just go Heartbreak Strike, Zeus' Aid, Smoldering Air.

Any Dash is fine, but you'll want to avoid Tidal Dash.

[toxic river]

what are some good exagryph builds?

with the aspect of hestia

[cunning urchin]

Deadly Strike or Heartbreak Strike, Tidal Dash, any +% Flourish.

Similar to Eris, just with +% on Attack.

Instead of Lightning Strike.

[opal lodge]

ricochet + piercing are your best hammers,

hazard bomb targeting explosive are all fine settle hammers

though cluster rockets is also always busted

[cunning urchin]

Hmm. I actually think Hazard Bomb or Cluster Rockets are better than Attack hammers.

[opal lodge]

could be

idk about cluster but hazard might be

the attack hammers are quite good though

[cunning urchin]

For sure.

[opal lodge]

special has been long underutilized too though

[cunning urchin]

I leaned far more towards Attack hammers previously, but I've been doing runs with ellomenop's DPS meter a lot lately, and most of my damage def came from Special.

[opal lodge]

yee

crepes adores hazard

if it were base dmg itd be extra busted

instead it will have to settle for being kind of busted

[cunning urchin]

I'd probably start with a Flourish over Strike, in fact. Base Attack with High Confidence and Fiery is enough to one-shot things in Tartarus.

And Special poms scale better anyway.

[opal lodge]

i usually start with dash but i could see flourish working

[cunning urchin]

Tidal Dash?

[opal lodge]

yee

helps with riff raff in tartarus

wants poms

etc

[cunning urchin]

Makes sense. I start Eternal Rose, so that's not an option.

[opal lodge]

fair

[worldly pier]

Hazard is base damage. Or did I misunderstood your point ?

[opal lodge]

it is? +300% base?

i thought it was just +300%

[worldly pier]

No, it is x4

[opal lodge]

holy crap

[worldly pier]

That's why Hazard is so powerfull. It's basically rocket+cluster in one hammer

[opal lodge]

yeah

[worldly pier]

I'd still rate piercing and ricochet above for Hestia though

[opal lodge]

i was just under the impression it was a +300% additive modifier

[worldly pier]

I tested it a few weeks ago, though I might be wrong, sometimes a bit too exhausted ^_^

[opal lodge]

feel that

i might go back and check with aphro flourish or something where itd be obvious

if its base it might be completely legitimate on eris with hyper sprint then

idk maybe thats nonsense

[honest wing]

facts

idk why that's a thing tho

[prime heart]

I beat Hades with the deadly strike passion dash heart rend Arthur build

[cunning urchin]

Nice! Congratulations!

[lime jolt]

Nyaanyaa is proud

[silver blaze]

For you guys what do you think would be the best build for the twin fist (gilgamesh aspect)?

[chrome girder]

Merciful end

The lower heats you’ll just blast through

[hearty elbow]

High roll: Merciful End
Medium roll: Smoldering Air (Aphro start/Zeus dash, you may get lucky and end up with a full Zeus build, run with that if you do)
Safe bet: Tidal Dash.

Depending on comfort with the aspect you can use Maim to make any of these better.

[pulsar jewel]

If I've already experienced Poseidon Exit Wounds, Achilles Demeter Beam Dream, Achilles Blade Rifts, various basic Attack/Special zeus shield builds, separate Chiron/Rama Zeus/Hangover builds, Zeus or Gilgamesh Merciful end Doom builds, various basic aspect of Talos/Demeter builds, Aspect of Eris speedrun builds, Hestia one-shot builds.

What would you suggest as something to try which would be new but also decently strong? I play EM4 so has to have a base level for that

[hearty elbow]

That's... a bar lol

[pulsar jewel]

Well I wanna try something that I haven't tried but I'm not the best theorycrafter for new builds

[hearty elbow]

Relentless Chiron Dire Misfortune + Curse of Longing

[pulsar jewel]

Ooh that sounds exciting

Does that work for Rama as well?

[hearty elbow]

Hmm... I suppose it would, but Chiron applies the weak first then the Doom so you wont' be able to get a powershot off before the doom procs with Rama if you're playing normally

You could apply weak with a small attack I guess

You also don't need relentless volley for it to work on Chiron, it's just nice lol

[pulsar jewel]

my thought process is that rama works better against trash because of the inherent chaining, and against enemies which aren't taken care of just that i can powershot them even with rama

[hearty elbow]

That's kind of just because Rama is a better aspect lmao

But I would say Chiron is better at executing this particular cheese strat

[pulsar jewel]

Well, yeah :P

I sort of hate applying the attack on chiron

[lime jolt]

Ive gotten 1k doom with chiron

[hearty elbow]

And you asked for EM4, if you get the goods this build is exceptional for that since you're effectively applying a giant Hangover on steroids

You can even barf start Privileged Status

[pulsar jewel]

I do yes, almost every time =P

I don't play for speed

I like a slow playthrough with a tough culmination at the end

And necessity on making the build as good as I can throughout the run

[hearty elbow]

Different folks, different strokes. The FF/PS argument isn't one for speed, but consistency of builds and lack of trying to stretch your build/damage rotation to accommodate a comparatively similar damage buff

Or doing crazy risky things like dashing into enemies to apply Exposed etc.

[pulsar jewel]

The detail about speed is if you play with either Tight Deadline or Forced Overtime you're either forced to go a certain speed which makes you take more damage or the regular enemies are just way tougher which requires you to be more efficient

Both cases cause more weight on the regular enemies, which means you want more power earlier

But because I like that there's a higher difficulty spike from the bosses specifically I also like PS

[hearty elbow]

That makes sense. Chase your bliss :3

[pulsar jewel]

Ye

[clever barn]

soooo, i just took ares/poseidon boon thinking it was something cool

but apparently is terrible

[lime jolt]

It is!!!

[clever barn]

is there a way to make it work?

[lime jolt]

I love playing it

Play it on poseidon sword or achilles

[pulsar jewel]

@lime jolt it's terrible or it's cool? =D

[clever barn]

yeh, i'm playing it on poseidon sword

[lime jolt]

Its cool

I like it a lot

I don’t think it’s amazing or anything, but a lot of fun to play

[clever barn]

buffing poseidon cast makes the damage better?

[lime jolt]

Yeah

Pick up wave pounding

[clever barn]

does it work with poseidon/zeus duo?

[lime jolt]

Probably

[pulsar jewel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJWG0a3WZ38 Seems it can slap quite a bit

[clever barn]

i guess i'll try

[lime jolt]

That’s before nerf

But it’s still fun

[hearty elbow]

It was kind of hilarious pre-nerf

As in "oh I definitely broke the game this is not intended" good

[pulsar jewel]

But that's not even current patch beam dream level?

[hearty elbow]

The thing was that there was no cost before. People take Flood Shot all the time as a value utility cast and end up with natural Ares all the time, so you kind of just... got it?

A lot

For free

And obliterated all content lol

[pulsar jewel]

Ah I see

[hearty elbow]

Very similar concept to pre-nerf Merciful End, which had Divine Dash as a prereq

[pulsar jewel]

Ah, righto =P

People on the subreddits tell about the meme status of beam dream

If you use fated authority it's pretty consistent

[hearty elbow]

It's like a 30 boon build that involves Chaos high rolls lmao

[pulsar jewel]

It doesn't even necessarily need the additional cast from chaos, you just need to get something

Poseidon art dual cast, art legendary, chaos cast, well of charon cast with keepsake

get one out of any here and get demeter artemis duo and the build works already

well, i guess it is different for me because i play for the final fight

harder early game doesn't have the luxury of sucking the whole game

[hearty elbow]

So like... Merciful End isn't that consistent, it has a huge fail rate, and it's 3 core priority boons as prereqs.

The Achilles Crystal Clarity build needs a specific cast, Artemis, then the duo, Glacial Glare, poms in Glare, and one of either Poseidon for Mirage Shot or Chaos extra casts.

[opal lodge]

BUT

If you get all of those things

:^)

[lime jolt]

[hearty elbow]

Oh duh for sure that's why it's such a sweet meme

[pulsar jewel]

merciful end?

[opal lodge]

come on ledger live a lil

[hearty elbow]

I used ME as an example because on paper it's not even hard to get, but it's actually not reliable at all lmao

[pulsar jewel]

you basically have to start the build with the cast, that's for sure

[hearty elbow]

Oh, additional meme points for Arctic Blast, but that boon is a myth

[pulsar jewel]

so with fated authority sometimes you just don't start the build =p

but anyways i've done it like three out of four times by now

[hearty elbow]

And Astaos got Splitting Bolt Chiron on AP2 at 50 heat today lmao. Stuff happens 🙂

[pulsar jewel]

i'm a firm believer for the harder to build builds that fated authority is just better than fated persuasion, it allows you to consistently four god the build which is critical in not diluting the pool, and it just gives you more boons

[hearty elbow]

I used ME because it's such a popular and iterated build and it's fail rate is non-negligible. So at base line you're looking at that as a general gauge for likelihood

[clever barn]

ok i changed my opinion

poseidon ares is very fun

[hearty elbow]

I guess agree to disagree but Persuasion letting you reroll Chaos, or look for specific tier 2s by skipping priority boons from first offerings are kind of unique options

[lime jolt]

But then ya cant get the boons you acutally want 🙂

[hearty elbow]

Authority is kind of a travesty until you fill your core slots

[pulsar jewel]

for duo builds all the boons you need are already prioritized

[hearty elbow]

You'll never get anything

It's like playing with APx active if you're looking for a tier 2 lol

[pulsar jewel]

authority let's you 1) get 4 specific gods in the pool very consistently 2) let you reroll specific gods in styx very cheaply

you get way more rolls of the gods you need

the only downside is no chaos and hermes reroll

[lime jolt]

Thats fine, but I can't get the stuff I wan't from the god

[opal lodge]

thats quite the downside lol

[pulsar jewel]

well, it is and it isn't

[opal lodge]

side hustle greater evasion lookin build

[lime jolt]

Its like the difference between RI0 and RI1

[pulsar jewel]

sometimes chaos doesn't give you what you want even with persuasion

[hearty elbow]

Yeah, e.g. I've heard the argument that Authority lets you see a lot of Zeus. And that's true on the surface. But Zeus is hot to trot because of his dope T2 and T3 boons, and Authority means that you'll running with -1 or -2 boon choices for those until you manage to fill in the cores.

[pulsar jewel]

and as i iterated earlier, for example cast builds specifically it's not always necessary to get the cast specifically from chaos

fated authority lets you always get artemis, you get more boons == you have the option to almost always have a shot at the legendary

that's not true for persuasion

you don't get enough boons

[lime jolt]

I haven't gotten the artemis legendary once in like 700+ attempts

[pulsar jewel]

at least not in my experience

[opal lodge]

hrm

[pulsar jewel]

well you should try authority then!

i get it very often

[hearty elbow]

The other thing is that Underwold Customs means that Persuasion is the default and only choice

[lime jolt]

^^^

[hearty elbow]

And I think it's basically the free-est 2 heat on the list

[opal lodge]

ok now im very curious what your victory screens look like haha

[pulsar jewel]

The key is to use those rerolls smartly, up to elysium only use it to dodge gods that would mess the pool

[lime jolt]

Still one of my least favorite

[pulsar jewel]

When you have the exact 4 gods you want with keepsakes / luck during the climb / rerolls, then you save those rerolls for boss rooms, those are always boons

[hearty elbow]

Yeah, well, game hard :3

[lime jolt]

Especially with RI and CF

[hearty elbow]

It's nice to see a different playstyle. I get the value of locking 4 gods you want into a pool, that makes sense, but as you mentioned, the key difference is that you tend to prioritize all of you power into singular encounters where the higher in heat you go the more constant the difficulty spikes will be

It's all just one big spike lmao

[pulsar jewel]

https://i.imgur.com/wxhJh8l.jpeg

This one I got first try when going exactly for this

https://i.imgur.com/kxKwa4t.jpg same thing, although this was ultra lucky, i wasn't expecting to get everything =D

https://i.imgur.com/vT6rMNA.jpeg then there was this one

[lime jolt]

Zeus shield + poseidon special synergy

[pulsar jewel]

https://i.imgur.com/y19WRWp.jpg rama build

[opal lodge]

my priv status radar has literally never been wrong

im so good

im so good at this game

[hearty elbow]

LOL we already touched on that @opal lodge.

[opal lodge]

fair

[hearty elbow]

But yeah 100% know what you mean. It's very easy to tell.

I don't know the exact tells but my soul does

[opal lodge]

right?

[nocturne raven]

Gah, I keep getting 40 seconds off my personal best. Anyone have any advice for Chiron speedrunning? My last was Demeter on attack, Aphro on special, Crystal Beam, Crystal Clarity and Artemis' Aid, along with the Hermes boon that charges your god meter automatically and the dash HP regen one.

[hearty elbow]

Good lord you have deviated from the beaten path my child

Well done.

[opal lodge]

chiron speedrunning is a bit of an oxymoron

but usually the move is to start tidal dash and pick up some good stuff from there

if you find another poseidon you want breaking wave

[nocturne raven]

Oh wait my bad, I had Tidal Dash as well.

[opal lodge]

you can take poseidon special or arty special

[nocturne raven]

I usually get Razor Shoals, is Breaking Wave better?

[opal lodge]

heartbreak strike is good

[hearty elbow]

You want Hyper Sprint + Rush Delivery, and focus on boss damage with your special

[lime jolt]

Breaking wave for what?

[gusty rapids]

breaking wave is one of the best tier 2's in the game

fwiw

[opal lodge]

breaking wave will save you a ton of dmg in styx

[lime jolt]

For poseidon dash it is insanely broken

[opal lodge]

it saves you like 20-30s alone in styx

[nocturne raven]

Okay, thanks! Will keep that in mind.

[lime jolt]

I learned how to better utilize it by speedrunning hestia

Since dash is your main source of damage early game

[hearty elbow]

Lol, I like how you play Tartarus Hestia like the world's lamest Eris

[lime jolt]

Its sorta how you play it tho

Reload attack, then finish them off with your dash

My hestia runs are pretty much dash only for small rooms

Especially once I get breaking wave

[pulsar jewel]

Sorry should've uploaded these as a gallery, got muted for a sec

[lime jolt]

This is speedrunning btw

[hearty elbow]

Proxy bot on the hunt

[opal lodge]

chiron is generally pretty slow for anyone not named lovcrimson @nocturne raven so check out their run on speedrun.com if you havent yet

[pulsar jewel]

https://imgur.com/a/96KSUfk Anyways here are all of my runs since starting to use fated authority and really going for the 4 god pool synergy and styx rerolling

[nocturne raven]

Will do, thank you!

[lime jolt]

It is quite insane

Both the rooms and the player

[hearty elbow]

Lol, for AotW I started the TD3 revolution for Chiron 50+ :3

[lime jolt]

TD3 chiron is fine tbh

I don't have as much of a problem with timer than actually dying :0

[hearty elbow]

It's... something lmao. You definitely need to use all the parts of the buffalo, let's put it that way.

[static karma]

Is flurry slash a good sword hammer?

[lime jolt]

No

[hearty elbow]

No

Is it a fun meme? Yes.

You can get Flurry + Piercing Wave + Swift Strike with Zeus and go to town

[somber drum]

My favorite run ever was with flurry slash

[hearty elbow]

One of my first clears was Flurry Slash + Cursed Slash. I thought I broke the game it was so good

[somber drum]

Epic greatest reflex, blade dash with lots of buffs and flurry slash. I was the lawn mower.

[opal vortex]

Best weapon for fiery presence? The arthur sword?

[fervent elbow]

Hestia

[opal vortex]

I don't think I have that yet

but I wanna get the chaos boon checked off my list

[hearty elbow]

That's... an odd question lol. You take fiery presence to do something specific on an aspect, but neither of them define builds

I see

Yeah, Hestia, Rama with DC0 are great choices

Guan Yu with Charged Skewer is also great (you need DC0 in general for Fiery Presence lol)

[lime jolt]

Hestia hands down is the best for fiery imo

[static karma]

Is flurry slash a good sword hammer?

[hearty elbow]

Lol @static karma

[static karma]

i am really inexperienced with sword as you all can see

[hearty elbow]

We already answered your question :3

[opal vortex]

What is DC0...

[hearty elbow]

Like right after you asked it the previous time haha

[static karma]

i thought i didn't ask it here for some reason

in this channel

i'll scroll up

[somber drum]

Zero ranks of Damage Control

[static karma]

if you mean in the other channel then fair enough

[hearty elbow]

(honestly for that prophecy though you can just turn FIery Presence on for like... most aspects and not notice a difference)

[clever barn]

just won with poseidon ares duo, it was hilarious

[hearty elbow]

Lol, it doesn't matter to me, but scroll up to 6:10, and 6:13, you asked the same question like 10 lines after we answered it haha

[static karma]

I see it now, thanks for pointing out time stamps

i had a brain fart and didn't see above

[somber drum]

I'm solid team Curse of Drowning. Everyone else hates it but not me.

[hearty elbow]

I would be more of a fan if it could collab with team S E A S T O R M

[cunning urchin]

Not entirely true. Getting ME is very consistent. The "problem" is that in speedruns you want it early, you want Dash early, you want poms on your Attack, you want Impending Doom, and you want poms on that also. And ideally you also want Rush Delivery or Greatest Reflex. Then on top of that you want good room RNG.

[clever barn]

i just dashed attacked my way through existence with poseidon sword and somehow i won

[cunning urchin]

But for normal runs, it's a very easy and powerful build that just sometimes comes online a little later.

[somber drum]

It's not that I hate the better boons, I just haven't gotten to the point where I hate the otherwise great boons for being sub-optimal.

[pulsar jewel]

hmm just measured rama shoots around 6 arrows per sec, chiron with perfect rotation shoots around 8 arrows per sec

[hearty elbow]

Lol, I would say I've missed on ME if I get it in Styx. Which is where I get it maybe about 25% of the time, if at all.

[pulsar jewel]

i have a feeling chiron ends up being similar to rama in attack speed because you really need the perfect rotation to get that 8 per sec, if you just do two volleys it's already worse

[opal lodge]

i hope chiron ends up similar to chiron

[pulsar jewel]

=P

[hearty elbow]

Chiron be what Chiron do

[opal lodge]

💩 ?

[cunning urchin]

Give Chiron Charon damage.

[hearty elbow]

I wish SGG would let us KATHUNK people with Charon's oar

[opal lodge]

look all im sayin is

if you beat charon

you should get his oar

[fervent elbow]

I had a worse time using Chiron than Guan Yu when doing hotw

[opal lodge]

thats all

[cunning urchin]

What do you even do to get it so late so often.

[somber drum]

Omg me too, That had to be the first thing I ever said on this server!

[hearty elbow]

Probably a bad string of variance where I missed (Styx+ or not at all) 4 times in a row when I started playing again and swore to not fall in that trap again lol

I don't even enjoy ME, which was the annoying bit. So missing on it over and over again was demoralizing

[pulsar jewel]

@hearty elbow I suppose I should start the dire misfortune + Curse of Longing with ares and go from there?

[hearty elbow]

Yeah

You want Artemis for Pressure Points and Athena for Deadly Reversal if you're optimizing meme

[pulsar jewel]

Thanks!

Will do

[hearty elbow]

You don't want Merciful End though lmao

[pulsar jewel]

...Yes =P

[hearty elbow]

Or Impending Doom

Don't do that

[pulsar jewel]

Ah, right. Yeah

[hearty elbow]

Also please let the class know if you find out exactly how CoL + Empty Inside + Dire Misfortune works

[static karma]

I want that to be the 7th Infernal Arm in a DLC if we get a DLC

[hearty elbow]

I just want it to replace Zag Sword, and have Nemesis be the base sword aspect

[pulsar jewel]

This is the four A build

Aphrodite Ares Artemis Athena

[hearty elbow]

Just kidding. Unless you have Divine Strike and Passion Dash you can't do Deadly Reversal like that anymore 😦

Forgot. It's been many moons since I've intentionally sought Deadly Reversal for a build lol

4th God probably Zeus for Billowing Strength? What else gives big chungus global damage?

[pulsar jewel]

True

[cunning urchin]

Btw, something I learned recently, I don't know how known this is, but there seem to be at least three priority tiers. Priority 1 are Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash. The first boon you get will always 3 out of those 4. Any boon after that will always offer 1 out these 4 until you filled all 4 slots. Priority 2 are tier 2 status curses: Hunter's Mark, Static Discharge, etc. m still looking into how exactly they work, but they def have priority over legendary/duo boons. Taking them out of the pool + filling your 4 priority slots improves your odds for getting a legendary or duo a whole lot. There's a reddit thread trying to break down the boon priorities, but it definitely has errors, but it tipped me off to status curse boons having a higher priority.

Priority 3 would just be everything else.

[hearty elbow]

That explains why Jolted is soooooooooo much more common than Double Strike from my experience, thanks

Thought I was just unlucky

[cunning urchin]

And obviously duo/legendary are rolled before priority 3.

[pulsar jewel]

But after 2?

[cunning urchin]

Correct.

[pulsar jewel]

If there's at least one slot for prio 3 it means it won't affect your chance for duo/legendary? Unless you have multiple open legendaries/duos

[cunning urchin]

Prio 3 just means they have no special priority.

[pulsar jewel]

(Because you technically lose the chance for getting multilples)

Ie. if you have exactly one open duo/legendary you want to make room for it by making space for at least one prio 3

Or I guess the more prio 3 ones you get the more chance you'd have for lege still?

Since the rarity is rolled separately for every boon?

For some reason i was thinking the legendaries/duos were rolled once, maybe from one of those reddit threads

Where did you get this info by the way?

[cunning urchin]

I do my own research.

[pulsar jewel]

Sounds ominous

[cunning urchin]

lol okay.

[pulsar jewel]

What's a juicy aspect of chaos build?

[lime jolt]

I like zoos on special

Get double strike and jolted and ez game

[pulsar jewel]

It's good for trash but it only triggers once right on bosses?

Ie. the quintuple special just deals base damage + one zeus bolt?

[lime jolt]

trash?

[fervent elbow]

adds

[pulsar jewel]

Like regular enemies

[lime jolt]

oh ok

[hearty elbow]

It can trigger maybe twice depending on level geometry and bounces

It's nothing like old Chaos where the star pattern would mean the shields would be totally offset when they came back lol

Good times

Well, it "always" triggers twice, once on the way out and once on the way back, as long as it wasn't a perfect shotgun

But it can trigger 3+ depending on geometry

[cunning urchin]

Jolted does most of the damage.

[lime jolt]

jolted is super nice

[somber drum]

I tend to like those big damage effects like Jolted and doom on weapons that spread across the room like the chaos and standard bow special.

[hearty elbow]

Just standard? Lol, I'd say Rama special spreads the love probably better

[somber drum]

For a weapon you only have to aim at walls to hit with you'd be surprised how consistently I miss with Rama special

[hearty elbow]

Lol I've heard this was a thing from a lot of people. Is it just a flaw of auto aim on KBM or something?

[lime jolt]

I miss with it too quite a lot

[somber drum]

It could be, KBM has auto aim but moving the cursor too much breaks it

For some weapons like most bow aspects it's worse, for some like the shield bull rush it's probably better.

[hearty elbow]

Shrug. Seems pretty foolproof to me on controller/switch.

Well, depending on angle, same thing with Hestia where you can't aim at targets moving perpendicularly to you

[somber drum]

I need to just try some runs on the controller some time but I consider myself a dyed-in-the-cloth KBM player on Supergiant games since Bastion

They all have some compensating weapons that make both control schemes viable.

[hearty elbow]

I assume that's the trick of using the mortar in Bastion lol. The trick on controller is to not use it

[somber drum]

And the exact same thing applies to the grenade on all rail aspects, you can be an absolute coward with the rail on KBM

[hearty elbow]

Oh, I spent a lot of active effort learning how to use the special on Rail. The control is a lot better than mortar from Bastion

What I can't do is hit my f'ing bombs with Lucifer aspect with more than 0 enemies on the screen lol

[opal vortex]

Does the more expensive boon in Styx have a higher chance of being legendary?

[dusky drum]

it has guaranteed rares and epics

i believe thats it

[spiral badge]

The game considers it more “this cannot roll common”

[dusky drum]

so theoretically yes but in terms of hard code i have no idea

[slim lynx]

probably?

i mean you paid good money for it after all

[dusky drum]

but we all know charon makes hermes the most expensive(not counting blood/diamond) because he's worth it >:3

[turbid wren]

does blown kiss do anything for crush shot on hera?

[dusky drum]

having hera doesnt change the effects of blown kiss on the cast :3

just that maybe you wont be getting the 50% on undamaged unless you space it

[slim lynx]

me when i buy hermes at styx and still don't get rush delivery (angry)

[spiral badge]

Blown kiss should still be nice for hera, in that the extra 50% can often be the difference between one-shotting some enemies and not

Hard to find an awful cast support boon on a cast build etc etc

[slim lynx]

the problem is that the arrow hits first unless you can fire the arrow right before it would go inside the enemy's hitbox

[spiral badge]

Oh man, that’s weak

I was unaware of that

[slim lynx]

the increased range is still nice so why not take it

[spiral badge]

Yeah. I love blown kiss if I come across it on talos lol. Beeg 1st shot boost

[pulsar jewel]

@hearty elbow chaos is almost entirely useless for this build right?

like the point of the build is the doom stacks and chaos special damage can't affect that right?

It just adds damage through the special base damage which is pitiful on Rama in this case

[whole agate]

Are there any written guides to boon builds and duo boons?

[opal vortex]

So I tried the entire run to get artemis legendary. Every chance I had to work toward it or roll it I took; including all my re-rolls. Still didn't get it

[somber drum]

Yeah I think they are pinned in some of the servers, probably this one and #h1-high-heat-strategies

[pulsar jewel]

@hearty elbow https://i.imgur.com/7IALUoq.jpeg thanks for the tip. It was a fun run

[cunning urchin]

(1) Have all of Attack, Special, Cast, and Dash filled with a boon because those have priority, at least one them from Lady Artemis, so that she won't offer exchanges; (2) make sure those boons don't unlock any of Lady Artemis's Duo Boons; (3) meet the requirements for Fully Loaded; (4) take Hunter's Mark, so that it's no longer in her boon offers because it has priority over Fully Loaded; (5) Yarn of Ariadne, Refreshing Nectar, Adamant Arrowhead, and God's Legacy each give +10% chance to roll a Legendary or Duo Boon; (6) miniboss chamber rewards and the more expensive boons in the final shop have reduced chance for a Legendary or Duo Boon roll; (7) Beowulf can't get Exit Wounds, and any non-lodging Casts can't get Exit Wounds, so it will be harder to find the requirements for Fully Loaded with those.

That's all the factors that can improve your odds of rolling her legendary.

[opal vortex]

I don't know how you people remember all this. I never will

[cunning urchin]

Well.

[pulsar jewel]

"(6) miniboss chamber rewards and the more expensive boons in the final shop have reduced chance for a Legendary or Duo Boon roll;" wait what why?

isn't that exactly their point?

i hope that was just a typo and it doesn't work like that

[cunning urchin]

1 and 4: get priority boons out of the way.
(and also 2: get exchanges out of the way)
5 and 6: increased legendary chance with items, decreased legendary chance for "big" boons
3 and 7: meet requirements for Fully Loaded

That was not a typo.

[pulsar jewel]

what's the value you get for the additional 300gp in the styx shop then?

if it has less chance of a duo / legendary

like increased epic chance or something nonsense?

[cunning urchin]

Increased chance for Epic and Rare, reduced chance for Duo/Legendary.

[pulsar jewel]

ehhhhhhhhh

that is so ass

[cunning urchin]

It's not very noticeable tbh.

[pulsar jewel]

but like if you have the same god boon with 150gp and 450gp in the styx shop, you're more likely to get a duo or legendary from the 150gp one?

and if you're gunning for duo/legendary if you're rerolling the rooms at styx with fated authority you want to actually reroll the non-boss rooms?

[whole agate]

Charon is scamming us

[cunning urchin]

Yes, you're more likely got a Duo/Legendary from the 150 boon.

[pulsar jewel]

that is such a design decision that i have a hard time believing they would do something like that

[cunning urchin]

Rerolling Styx chambers is bad anyway. Very bad odds to get what you want.

[pulsar jewel]

i think you mean extremely good chances of getting what you want

[cunning urchin]

No lol.

[pulsar jewel]

you keep the bad ones and then reroll the remaining ones

it can't roll one that is visible

so if you have gold health and pom showing, and you roll out of one god which can't be rolled again in that slot, you're guaranteed rolling between three of your remaining gods in your pool

[cunning urchin]

You can have multiple of the same god in the tunnels.

[pulsar jewel]

you cannot

or you can get multiple yes, that's the point

but simultaneously showing it's impossible to roll something that is already in another tunnel

so you use it to your advantage

the same mechanism works throughout the game as well

you can never have two exits with the same result

[cunning urchin]

Not in Styx.

[pulsar jewel]

when was the last time you tried it?

i've been doing fated authority runs for like the past month or something, never seen a duplicate god, and i consistently use around five dice at styx

all i can say is prove me wrong

the same thing applies to rolling out of something in an exit, you can never get it back again. but this only applies to the first one you roll out of

you can get it back from another exit though

the only better place to reroll is exactly those mini-boss encounters because those are always guaranteed to be boons if they started as boons

but you only get so many of those after you've filled your 4-god pool, so you won't use all your dice on them

as to normal rooms, if you get a three-exit one that's again a good place to reroll if it's money gold pom, but if it isn't there's a very high roll chance for non-boons in gold laurel rooms

if your strategy is rolling there you will very quickly use your dice without much return

i'm getting the feeling all ya'll are snuffing the authority because you have no idea what you can actually even do with them

you get so many more boons with them when you optimally use them

reroll doesn't actually give you more boons, you just see more of them

and you can't consistently get the 4 gods you want

so i wasn't joking when i earlier said the only downside in authority is you can't reroll hermes / chaos

[cunning urchin]

Authority was meta before I converted people to Persuasion, you know. And for good reason.

[lime jolt]

But what about getting T2’s and duo/legendary

[pulsar jewel]

i'm playing authority exactly for that purpose

i both see and get more of the god boons i need

[slim lynx]

nyaanyaa literally has power over the community

[lime jolt]

True

[cunning urchin]

I think it was me and Tailesque or Krashercorr or both who made people see the light.

[pulsar jewel]

you keep talking confidently about you being correct even though you don't even know the mechanics of the alternative =P

like what is that

[opal vortex]

So Theseus summoned Zeus and I used Zeus call at the same time. I swear my call did nothing.

[cunning urchin]

Persuasion won that battle long ago because Persuasion gets results both in high heat and in speedruns. It's as simple as that.

[dusky drum]

lol i just played the game and thought boon rerolls were better than room rerolls

[pulsar jewel]

well, i can't really argue with that

it's true the rerolls have much higher impact early in the game, and that matters a lot both in high heat and speedruns

.. but if you're going for beam dream

[lime jolt]

Just use RI

Easy

[pulsar jewel]

you can get it way more consistently with authority

[lime jolt]

Don’t have to worry

[pulsar jewel]

again this discussion comes down to there's more than one way to play the game

[cunning urchin]

I know how Authority works. If you can't reroll into the same gods in Styx anymore, they patched that awhile ago. Doesn't make Authority any better, though, to be honest, in any way that matters for high heat or speedruns.

[pulsar jewel]

but it so does though?

the styx is the power spike for it

[cunning urchin]

Styx doesn't matter.

You have your build by then.

[lime jolt]

There are so many gods in styx, I normally get one of the ones I want

And I reroll the boons I get quite a lot

[pulsar jewel]

well you max reroll 5

[cunning urchin]

In speedruns you've already reset if you haven't, and in high heat you never made it that far if your build isn't up to it.

[pulsar jewel]

• keys

it's not set in stone that you couldn't play without rerolls, like yeah it's worse in the beginning but it's not impossible

so let's say you are playing some build that really wants some duo god, and it's good enough to get to styx

[lime jolt]

Just play RI

Stonks

[pulsar jewel]

fated authority might be better because it's more consistent to get the duo

overall it's worse for speedrunning and high heat for sure, but i'm betting there's a bunch of people who don't do either of that and they're for example hunting for duos or wanting to experience the working builds

and they have no idea what authority could do for them because the "meta" is persuasion because of speedrunning and high heat

[dusky drum]

its meta for a reason tho :/

cuz its just better tbh

[pulsar jewel]

not for duos

[cunning urchin]

You can reroll any boon with improved Duo chance from your keepsake etc. as many times as you have rolls for. With Authority, you get one shot.

Persuasion is way better for Duo Boons.

[pulsar jewel]

is not

[cunning urchin]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[pulsar jewel]

so the fundamental problem with persuasion is that you're not guaranteed to get enough of the god you need

and no amount of rerolls helps with that

[turbid needle]

It was a problem until Dark Foresight was buffed.

[pulsar jewel]

for example artemis needs quite a few req boons in some builds

[dusky drum]

and authority wont help that crazy much either

[pulsar jewel]

you can't force any artemis boons with persuasion

it will

[dusky drum]

you still have limited rolls

[pulsar jewel]

i'm living proof of that

[turbid needle]

I ran Authority for a year and a half until DF got bumped to 20, now DF/Persuasion is better.

[dusky drum]

and you need reqs

[pulsar jewel]

yes, and authority gets you those

[dusky drum]

have you gotten runs with 5-6 duos with authority then??

[pulsar jewel]

yes?

[cunning urchin]

You're proof of what? I've not seen any results from you doing anything, sorry.

[pulsar jewel]

https://imgur.com/a/96KSUfk

[dusky drum]

thats 2 duos

ive had a run with 5

and i used persuasion

[pulsar jewel]

it's more than one build, it's about the consistency

those aren't handpicked

they happened sequentially

i don't frankly remember the last time i went for a build which had a core duo and failed to get it

and i'm not exaggerating here

i always get the core boon with authority, and usually a bunch more that are synergistic

so like minimum people who are just duo boon hunting should look into authority and learning how to optimally use it

it seems to be beyond some people that there are more than one way to play the game, and that those different ways to play it would have different optimal styles than the one they are used to in the only way they are currently playing

[dusky drum]

thats not what we are saying. we are saying that its been proven that persuasion is better, otherwise speedrunners and high heat runners wouldnt use it, you can use authority if you want but its not as good at accomplishing what you want

[pulsar jewel]

i'm not talking about high heat or speedrunning

i thought i made that clear

[turbid needle]

You're missing the point.

[dusky drum]

although it needs to be taken into account otherwise we have no grounds since everyone is at different skill

[turbid needle]

High Heat and speedrunning require maximum efficiency to push the envelope of their metagames.

[dusky drum]

top level play shows whats used

and why its used

[pulsar jewel]

restricting all viewpoints to only speedrunning or high heat like culls about 99.9% of the playerbase right from the start

[turbid needle]

So speedrunners will use the absolute most consistent option to attempt to get the boons they need.

[cunning urchin]

Fated Authority is better at getting Disciple of ______ or for meme runs that try to get all the gods in the game, things like that.

[dusky drum]

also mathematically persuasion is better -_-. since multiple chances at the same boon compared to one chance

[cunning urchin]

Like if you want to just get as many boons from one single god or something like that, Fated Authority is better for that.

[turbid needle]

I played with Fated Authority for a long time. In the current state of the game Dark Foresight and Fated Persuasion (and God's Legacy) are better for building specific builds, including Legendaries and Duos.

[pulsar jewel]

@dusky drum being able to get the same god more times is better than getting more chances of seeing that same god's boons

@turbid needle did you reroll at styx optimally?

[turbid needle]

Of course.

I've been playing for two years.

[pulsar jewel]

well @cunning urchin has also played a long time but he had no idea how the styx rerolling worked

in current patch

[cunning urchin]

Schpoonman was the greatest defender of Authority in Early Access lol.

[dusky drum]

but we are going for duos correct??

[slim lynx]

he has since seen and joined the light

[cunning urchin]

She.

[turbid needle]

I did just watch Tangled a few days ago.

[dusky drum]

that one god(that you are going for for the sake of that duo) has a chance to give it to you

[idle carbon]

mistake

[dusky drum]

also its annoying when you get an athena at high heat and she doesnt give you dash -_-

so a reroll is amazing

[pulsar jewel]

sometimes you don't get it even with one reroll

and sometimes you never see another athena

that has happened to me multiple times with fated persuasion

i call them cursed runs

i've never not gotten divine dash with authority

[turbid needle]

Are you taking Dark Foresight?

[pulsar jewel]

obviously

[lime jolt]

Dark foresight is huge

[turbid needle]

Persuasion is better.

[lime jolt]

That’s what this whole discussion has been about

[dusky drum]

yea dark foresight allows for more of that god variety

[pulsar jewel]

i'll start to keep a tally on how many times i get to see of the gods that i'm interested with fated authority

maybe it'll change your mind a little bit

[turbid needle]

It won't.

I've played more than you. Persuasion is better.

[pulsar jewel]

lol

[lime jolt]

Burn

[idle carbon]

fated persuasion is better cuz well of charon + UC

[pulsar jewel]

such closed minds

[dusky drum]

yea i played back when authority was new

[idle carbon]

IMO

[dusky drum]

that too actually

[turbid needle]

How is my mind closed if I've tested both exhaustively and come to find Persuasion to be better?

[dusky drum]

you can get more kiss/touch of styx and heals

[fervent elbow]

We've got a badass over here

[spiral badge]

You guys don’t get it

Have you ever stopped to think that he might just know more about the game than you???

Surely he couldn’t be blustering endlessly for no good reason

[pulsar jewel]

@dusky drum that's true, but generally boons are better

[dusky drum]

you also have to think that this is a luck based game, and with authority you are rolling too many chances.

1: rerolling for the god(which is luck mind you
2: one roll for the boon

compared to persuasion
1: get the god/force with trinket
2: reroll several times

[turbid needle]

The first time I had a UC initial roll that would've broken my build and I got to save it through Fated Persuasion I think I cried just a little.

[cunning urchin]

If not getting Divine Dash with Persuasion is your issue, you've got a lot to learn about building your runs, still. You can practically guarantee getting that from the first Lady Athena boon you pick up in Asphodel.

[dusky drum]

and dark foresight supplements

[pulsar jewel]

@dusky drum but you can't actually roll several times, it costs you an increased amount for every reroll after the first

[dusky drum]

yea, which you can still roll several, and even then 1-2 rerolls is stupid good

[pulsar jewel]

so optimally yes you're disciplined and keep all rerolls for the important gods

[lime jolt]

Ok guys just play what you want

[pulsar jewel]

then you go styx, and you don't get your god

happens quite often

[dusky drum]

and it seems youre disciplined too keep your rolls for the end of the run which is where you shouldnt be needing more boons, so whats your point

[pulsar jewel]

you've got like three dice left

[lime jolt]

For high heat and speedrunning, persuasion is probably better

For anything other, it doesn’t really matter

[pulsar jewel]

yes, high heat and speedrunning persuasion is probably better yes

[idle carbon]

for very high heat both are useless so

[lime jolt]

Lol i keep getting them mixed up

[dusky drum]

lmao true ri1 makes this convo unecessary

[pulsar jewel]

for anything other, like duo boon hunting, which is probably much more relevant to the mainstream player base, i disagree

[lime jolt]

That’s what I’m telling you guys. Just use RI

Problem solved

[pulsar jewel]

i whole-heartedly disagree

[slim lynx]

imagine having rerolls

[idle carbon]

imagine not using RI

[pulsar jewel]

when i played persuasion i was having difficulties getting even the one duo boon i wanted for a build

[fervent elbow]

If high heat and speedrun doesn't matter, I would say play with whatever mirror, aspect, build you want and that's it

[pulsar jewel]

and i wasn't wasting the dice

with authority i get it every time, and i get duos from the other ones as well, because you get that many more boons

actual boons, not just seeing a page

[slim lynx]

haven't you considered that it's just luck or

[pulsar jewel]

it's no longer luck man

when it happens every game

i've been playing this for a month

[slim lynx]

then you're just lucky

there's literally no explanation

[pulsar jewel]

it's not luck, it's optimal play

[slim lynx]

one is more consistent than the other because you're more lucky with that one

[dusky drum]

ok if yall want some quick math there are 8 gold room rewards,
1: gold, 2: hammer, 3: heart, 4-8: your 4 gods in the pool + hermes

so with authority you have an 8% chance to get the room you want

i think

unless im dumb

might be dumb

[pulsar jewel]

that's true, early on you never want to waste dice

it has such low returns

you want to time the dice usage in places where you're expected to hit

[dusky drum]

take off hermes and hammers but thats still 6 options

considering you can reroll and still not get what you want

[pulsar jewel]

you take off hermes and hammers, you get your 4 god pool, then you reroll the miniboss rooms because you're guaranteed to always get a boon

you can sometimes roll one at the end of acts, because those rooms cannot roll money (no idea, ask reddit, but it's true)

[cunning urchin]

A month lol I have over 850 hours of actual play time. That's over 35 days.

[pulsar jewel]

you try to keep 5 dice for styx, and then you roll the gods you want multiple times, you keep gold/pom/health in the ones you're not rolling, you're guaranteed to roll gods

@cunning urchin yes, and with all of that knowledge you have no idea about the actual mechanics

and this month old noob has more

[turbid needle]

Dude.

[dusky drum]

ok thats even worse since now you only get 1 shot at the boon you want per area going off that standard and you wont be able to keep 5 if you roll once per and dark forsight unless youre lucky with blue laurels

[turbid needle]

Nyaa is one of the best players on the entire server.

[pulsar jewel]

yes, and he demonstrably didn't know the mechanics

[turbid needle]

She.

[dusky drum]

^^

[pulsar jewel]

he keeps repeating he has more hours than me, he didn't know the mechanics

so i have no idea what is argument is

[lime jolt]

*she

[dusky drum]

ok yea im not wasting my time arguing a fact with a person that doesnt respect pronouns after being corrected -_-

[slim lynx]

now you're just calling someone dumb because they don't agree with your opinion

[pulsar jewel]

@dusky drum i get like average three gods in styx for the two gods i'm interested in

[opal vortex]

Wow... it really is a PitA to farm for legendaries. I try to go for it the entire run and don't get it. So annoying.

[pulsar jewel]

so i have no idea what you mean "you only get one per area"

you get one boon from every reward regardless of which dice you're using

[dusky drum]

you said wait for miniboss/pre boss

so like 2-4 maybe

but thats also not considering you have more in the pool

and by that time once you hit styx youll run out of dice

[pulsar jewel]

yep, 2-4 sounds about right

[dusky drum]

but like ive said im done, ive said my piece, persuasion is better

[pulsar jewel]

and you hit styx with 5, which is enough because styx has five exits and you can use it to your advantage to get a high chance of repeat gods

if prereq boons weren't a thing, persuasion would be better for getting duos and legendaries

i bet you 100€ i'll get more artemis legendaries than you will with persuasion

[dusky drum]

ok one more thing actually, like i said earlier persuasion is mathematically better. its better to run 3 new chances for low % boons instead of 1 chance for a low %

[pulsar jewel]

you'll never even get the prereqs with persuasion consistently, you'll never get to use the dice

it's better to run 3 chances for low % boons instead of zero chances with persuasion

[lime jolt]

At lower heat do whatever you want

It really doesn’t matter

[pulsar jewel]

because you'll consistently run into situations where you don't get the god you want

[lime jolt]

But at high heat take persuasion/RI

[cunning urchin]

I highly doubt you're able to fully optimize either Authority or Persuasion to get what you want. m still learning new things myself all the time. The fact that you didn't get what you wanted with Persuasion doesn't really prove anything.

[slim lynx]

it absolutely is just luck

[pulsar jewel]

How often do you fail to get a core duo god?

[slim lynx]

if you're getting more consistent results with one compared to the other, guess what? you're just lucky. you cannot convince me otherwise

[pulsar jewel]

i guess i'll have to start keeping tally

"days since i failed to get the duo i'm going for"

it's currently a month

[dusky drum]

at this point imma just deadass look at the records room to see how much i get -_-

[slim lynx]

why are you so bent on convincing us that authority is better

[pulsar jewel]

it's not universally better

for the playstyle that most people play here, which is either high heat or speedrunning, it's worse, because it has worse early and midgame

but the fact that people keep insisting that there's absolutely no point and absolutely no circumstance where it could be better than persuasion is perplexing to me because i am seeing a massive difference in getting duos with it

[lime jolt]

If I don’t get the stuff I want by midgame, I reset

[pulsar jewel]

and i wouldn't bother to talk about it, but i know there's a large playerbase who isn't doing the highly competitive thing with speedrunning or high heat, and this would be interesting to them

[dusky drum]

even though assuming mathematically you have an equal chance to get lets say optimal 6 rewards. thats 16% per and assuming youre going for 1-2 gods you want that goes up to 32%, still fairly low. also keep in mind the dice still increment with authority 1-2-3-4-etc meaning running all of them leads to 3 rerolls at max mirror. and idk the chances for duos if someone could give me that that would be great

[pulsar jewel]

well i don't reset

haven't had to

[lime jolt]

Looks over at 800 attempts

[dusky drum]

so you have a 32% to roll a room you want, when it can keep giving you what you dont want and exauhst the dice

[lime jolt]

Oh boy have I reset

[pulsar jewel]

dice do not increment with authority

[coral cave]

Nono guys

[pulsar jewel]

it is one reroll per dice, it does not increment

[dusky drum]

oh my b then

[coral cave]

If you have a different opinion than him you're wrong

[dusky drum]

i never use it so :3

[pulsar jewel]

but you're very insistent that it's worse

why is that?

[dusky drum]

mathematically it is

[coral cave]

Because it is

[pulsar jewel]

k

->

[coral cave]

I don't make the rules

[lime jolt]

Just play whatever you want

[pulsar jewel]

i don't take back the thing i said about people having narrow minds

[dusky drum]

do you wanna roll 16-32% constantly for a low chance of 1-3 boons being a duo or legendary, or take df with fp, get the god you want, and get 6 chances of that boon in one dice

[turbid needle]

I played with Authority for a year and a half.

I used it for all of my initial 32 clears.

[coral cave]

🥱

[turbid needle]

After 1.0 hit and Dark Foresight got buffed I switched to Persuasion, used it for a handful of runs, and haven't switched back since.

[dusky drum]

(i had to take a hiatus in EA but i played when fa was the cool new thing and didnt like it much)

[pulsar jewel]

dark foresight does not make either fated choice any better or worse

[turbid needle]

Please tell me how I'm being narrow-minded.

That's nonsense.

[pulsar jewel]

it's orthogonal to the choice, and increases your power in general

[dusky drum]

it lets you get 20% more gold laurel rooms, and thus more gods

[pulsar jewel]

yes, which applies to both dice

[dusky drum]

and thus 20% more of the god you want

[fervent elbow]

The playerbase who isn't into high heat or speedrun don't even read this channel

[turbid needle]

More golden laurels equals more boons, so more chances to get the Olympian I want which can be leveraged better with Persuasion.

[dusky drum]

but it makes authority useless

[fervent elbow]

so why bother

[pulsar jewel]

it doesn't

[dusky drum]

since youre getting the gods you want

from df

[pulsar jewel]

you don't get 100% of the gods you want

even with persuasion you might only get three of the god you want in the whole game

[turbid needle]

You won't with Authority, either.

[pulsar jewel]

yes, you will

[dusky drum]

its all chance

[pulsar jewel]

authority lets you change

[dusky drum]

there is no will

there is only may

[turbid needle]

Dude, if Authority gave me the Olympian I wanted on any given room I'd use it.

[pulsar jewel]

no, authority will absolutely give you more of the god you want

this is indesputable

[dusky drum]

and persuasion giving you 3 more chances compared to authorities 1, you get more of that may with persuasion

[slim lynx]

there is no """absolutely"""

it's all chance

[turbid needle]

I've burned 10+ rolls before and still not got what I wanted.

[dusky drum]

its a roguelike wth

[turbid needle]

Across the entire run, and on singular doors in any given biome.

[fervent elbow]

You keep calling us closeminded and yet you say this.

[dusky drum]

well i gotta eat dinner so i hope this doesnt keep going -_-

[lime jolt]

Been there done that

[mighty ermine]

if only

[coral cave]

Sounds like you're the close-minded one here buckaroo idk man

[pulsar jewel]

in styx if you don't start with the god you want, 5 out of the 7 possible options are shown and you reroll one of them you're 50% of getting the god you want

[mighty ermine]

and yet you can frequently burn all your rolls trying to get the one you want for a single chamber

[pulsar jewel]

you can never reroll the first rerolled again in an exit, so the second reroll is guaranteed to be the god you want